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Zanu Project Rethink - Head of White Only Town Part 2 — Transcript

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0:00[music]
0:11[music]
0:12the
0:13>> community helps but it's not forced.
0:15What in your mind now let me before I go
0:17to the next question. Have you at any
0:19time at all when all these hoopla when
0:21the people began to know about Orania
0:23have you at any time in your mind said
0:26yes I understand these people have a
0:30valid concern given
0:32the very negative uh relationship in the
0:35past white and black in South Africa.
0:37Has it occurred to you that
0:40yes, they may have a very valid reason
0:43to be concerned that you and his people
0:46are segregated or cut off exclusive.
0:51>> Yes. [snorts]
0:52Uh not only then but every day.
0:54>> Okay.
0:54>> I try to I try to and many of people in
0:58the community thinks like this. We try
1:00to understand what is people's concern
1:02with Iran. Let's take two scenarios.
1:05one
1:08remember tensions are high in South
1:09Africa so people try to simplify complex
1:12no answered questions simplify to
1:14understand it so let's take the first
1:15scenario say for example the people of
1:17Iran are bad people right we are the bad
1:21bad racist segregations whatever every
1:24bad word that's thrown away around these
1:26days say for example that is the truth
1:28where would you want those people around
1:31you in the cities
1:32>> or one in the desert on there
1:35>> okay
1:35>> where would you want them so that's the
1:37first thing the second thing is that
1:39there are still many structures of power
1:40in South Africa whether that be
1:42economically politically and so on if I
1:44wanted to be bad and hurt the other
1:48people of South Africa I would in I
1:51would influence those structures of
1:54power that and I would use that to my
1:56advantage I would not go and start a
1:58pioneering community to great challenges
2:00to myself and to my people I mean I
2:03didn't start but I mean as an example
2:04example, I would not go and put myself
2:07out there where I struggle more, where I
2:08have to do my own work, where I where I
2:10have to, you know, live in in that in
2:12those conditions. But yes, I I do
2:15sometimes understand that people have
2:17very simplified understandings of Orana.
2:20And in the light of such simplified
2:22understandings,
2:23um we try to to get to do two things
2:27simultaneously. Stand up for our people,
2:29African people in no uncertain way, for
2:31our culture, our language and our
2:32religion. and let Africans around the
2:35country know that we are standing up for
2:36them in
2:37>> what would the mainstream South Africa
2:40gain if everything goes well you are
2:43left alone and you you build this
2:46community continue to build it what
2:48would the main
2:50mainstream culture of South Africa gain
2:52from you first thing would be a
2:53blueprint a blueprint and a blueprint
2:58not just on paper but in practice a
3:00blueprint that does not only bring
3:02practical plans on how communities can
3:04better themselves to their own advantage
3:07by becoming less dependent. But the
3:09blueprint that also brings hope which is
3:12a very scarce resource in South Africa.
3:14A blueprint that brings hope in the
3:16sense that people see here is some ways
3:18that the community can be organized and
3:19here are people doing it and they are
3:22doing it for themselves. Yes. But it can
3:24be used
3:26um even on our small scale. The success
3:29that we bring is very encouraging for
3:32people who struggle. So that is the
3:34first thing it would bring. Secondly, if
3:36Irania were to be a success and African
3:38would feel safe there, they would feel
3:40they have a home, a hat
3:43area, it would bring political stability
3:46as well. When people feel threatened,
3:50when they feel under pressure,
3:52that is when conflict starts. But when
3:56people have the option of safety, it's
3:59better. Just think of a child. A child
4:00without a home.
4:02>> Yeah.
4:02>> He must fight on the streets to survive.
4:05A child that has a good loving home
4:06where he knows he's is stable and safe.
4:09When he goes out into the world, he's in
4:11a better position.
4:12>> Does it own police?
4:14>> We have our own security service. Yes.
4:16security service uniformed.
4:18>> Yes.
4:18>> Okay.
4:19>> Yes. So our security service as we used
4:24the model of um uh the solar plant for
4:28example commercializing it. We also used
4:31the commercial commercialization model
4:33for our security services. Why is that
4:35necessary? Well, in South Africa, if you
4:38combine the entire police force, you you
4:40combine the entire military with that
4:44and you say X4, four times, that is how
4:47big private security is in South Africa.
4:49Four times as big as the army and the
4:52police combined. Private security keeps
4:55South Africa safe. We took the model of
4:57private security,
4:59combined it with volunteers because we
5:02live in a very rural area. There there
5:04are no police stations. It's a 40 50
5:08kilometers to to to police stations very
5:10scattered around it very big rural
5:12areas.
5:13Created a security service which is
5:16legal which is registered which is
5:18professional and they provide a
5:20commercial service as many many security
5:24services around the country does.
5:25>> Oh I see. And through that we also build
5:28relationships to our neighboring
5:29communities who do not have necessarily
5:32uh enough uh uh security firefighting
5:35medical intervention available.
5:37>> I see.
5:38>> And that's actually been quite good to
5:39us. We've we've built relationships with
5:41neighboring communities. Um we've helped
5:44fight fires in neighboring communities.
5:47People who maybe had a bad perception of
5:49us who now has a bit more understanding
5:52when we
5:52>> you have you fought fires outside your
5:55>> Yes.
5:56You have your own fire fire department.
5:58>> Yes. But all of those all almost all of
6:01that is manned by volunteers. People who
6:02are willing to leave their businesses
6:05and Pauls making money for to protect
6:07the community to protect the farms and
6:09to even to protect.
6:09>> So your fire department is volunteer.
6:11>> Volunteers.
6:12>> You have primary school.
6:14>> We have primary schools. Yes.
6:15>> High school.
6:15>> Yes.
6:16>> So now university they can go anywhere.
6:18>> We we started a college in 2019 as well.
6:21One of our big achievements.
6:23>> You guys are ambitious.
6:24>> Yes. You have your own clinic?
6:26>> Yes.
6:28>> Yes.
6:28>> How far are you from the capital of
6:30South Africa?
6:32>> Uh about almost 800 km.
6:35>> 800.
6:35>> Yes.
6:36>> Is it Ptoria?
6:37>> Yeah.
6:38>> How far are you from Johannesburg?
6:39>> Johannesburg and Ptoria is close by.
6:41It's 700.
6:42>> That's correct. I see.
6:43>> So, so Africa actually has got three
6:45capitals. Um uh uh uh Ptoria, Cape Town,
6:49and Bloomfont. Bloomatine is not so far
6:51from us but it's a very much more
6:53smaller city than the other one.
6:54>> So when people think of Irania what is
6:56the first industry that comes to their
6:57mind?
6:58>> Industry.
6:58>> Yeah.
6:59>> Interestingly enough it's farming.
7:01>> Farming. Farming. So there is a farming
7:03sector surrounding us. Our primary
7:06economy less than 2% of the primary
7:08economic drivers is agriculture. However
7:11the secondary effect of that agriculture
7:13is quite large in our economy. Um so yes
7:16farming is what comes to mind if people
7:18think of Irania but we need to change
7:20that to manufacturing we need to be
7:22exporting if we are not exporting in a
7:24modern complex economy uh we we will
7:27have troubles around the
7:28>> what do you think you'll be exporting
7:29>> knowledge firstly uh I think one of our
7:32competitive advantages is the fact that
7:35we have people who are good accountants
7:38who are good lawyers who are good um
7:41engineers who are good uh you know
7:44whatever
7:45and they can export their knowledge set
7:47in Irania. If they can work through good
7:48internet connection, they can work.
7:50>> Are you exporting your farm products
7:52currently to the main country?
7:54>> Yes. Yes, we are. And and guess where
7:57else? We have we produce pecan nuts.
8:00We've planted a total of I think about
8:0216,000 pecan trees.
8:04Where would you guess those are going?
8:06>> Pan
8:09UK.
8:11No, to the east. So, China primarily is
8:16buying up peanuts.
8:17>> You're already exporting.
8:18>> Yes.
8:18>> To China.
8:19>> Yes.
8:21>> Wow.
8:23>> Interesting. Since 1991.
8:25>> Yeah.
8:26>> No, I mean 1991 you started Orania and
8:28in 2025 you're already exporting
8:30outside.
8:31>> Yes.
8:32>> So some of your products are going to
8:33the main country. I mean outside.
8:35>> We export through the rest of South
8:36Africa obviously. But um but but but
8:39this is that is the
8:40>> in the beginning when I asked you for
8:41the three criteria. The first one you
8:43said was drugg. Why drug?
8:45>> Because our so our schools with our
8:51college
8:53makes up a third of Urana's population.
8:55>> Okay.
8:56>> From from preschool to college, a third
8:58of our population.
8:59>> A third.
9:00>> A third.
9:01>> Okay.
9:01>> So it's vulnerable people. It's small
9:04children. It's schoolgoing children.
9:06It's college students. Drugs is
9:07non-negotiable. It's not something we
9:10don't want to put our people in even
9:12more so economic distress by introducing
9:15something that ruin lives, that destroys
9:17families, and that puts people in in
9:20horrible, horrible situations. Zero
9:22tolerance, not even weed, not even
9:24marijuana. It's not acceptable for us.
9:26>> Wow. Just let me ask you, and maybe this
9:28is your fault. Do you think you've done
9:30enough in terms of you're the
9:32spokesperson in terms of really
9:35clarifying this to the nation of South
9:37Africa and that maybe you have you
9:38didn't do a good job that's why people
9:40still have a negative opinion of Irania
9:43or or what is it
9:45>> I I believe I have not done enough I
9:47believe that good um
9:51friendly conversations can take us very
9:53far you know we recently erected a
9:55statue of a great hero out of our
9:59a statue that was attacked constantly in
10:01Pritoria, the statue of President Paul
10:04Krueger of the South African Republic,
10:05ZRR, which existed until it was um
10:09annihilated by the British colonial
10:12forces.
10:12>> Paul Krueger, right?
10:13>> Paul Krueger.
10:14>> Yeah.
10:15>> He was known for being a staunch and
10:20strong Africana leader, a nationalist of
10:22some kind.
10:23>> He had still good relationships with the
10:25black tribe surrounding him. He even
10:27helped the royal buff king people to um
10:30to become the owners of the land which
10:32they are on. He managed that they become
10:36the owners of that land and they got
10:38very rich from that because mineral
10:40resources was later discovered there but
10:41it was a I think under British
10:43protectorate he helped them. So he had a
10:45good relationships good relationship
10:47with Europe through his own roots and a
10:51good relationship with Africa through
10:52the work that he's done there. Irania
10:54must have a good relationship with the
10:56west to which we are culturally and in
11:00values inclined to and a good
11:01relationship with the people surrounding
11:03us on our continent. However, the times
11:07are tense.
11:08>> That is hard to do. That is hard to do.
11:12And our people are currently under so
11:15much pressure, so much fire. It's farm
11:16attacks. It's our history being
11:19eradicated, our statues getting
11:20attacked. uh we we we being pushed out
11:23of the job sector, out of the sports in
11:25terms of school sports and things like
11:27that. The be which is our version of the
11:30EI uh pushes Africanas out of
11:33opportunities and with all that
11:35>> what does the BE stand for?
11:37>> Black economic empowerment. So you take
11:39nice words, the words empowerment. Yeah.
11:41And you misuse them in a communist way
11:44to uh to to to make your friends rich.
11:46That's what the the the caders of the
11:48ANC are doing, you know, the the uh
11:50cater deployment. Um so the um the the
11:55be is part of there's about 144 laws
12:00based on race in South Africa. More
12:04more of a legal uh framework on racial
12:08qualifications
12:09than at the height of a part.
12:11>> Let me ask you this question.
12:14When Mandela got out of jail and then
12:16apathide collapsed,
12:20if someone had proposed that South
12:24Africa should be divided, let's have
12:26BSA, black South Africa.
12:29>> Let's have WSA, white South Africa, and
12:31put a border.
12:33>> Who do you think would have said no?
12:35>> White South Africans.
12:38What I meant is if somebody had proposed
12:41that for peace to reign
12:43since apathide say in your own lane and
12:46somebody have said well maybe the best
12:48option
12:50why don't we just put 2.9 or 3 million
12:53white people become their own republic
12:54who would oppose it
12:57>> I really think it would be the white
12:59South Africans and the reason
13:00>> South Africans
13:01>> the reason I think that is because
13:05the British made South Africa which was
13:08a bunch of small countries. Our two
13:10republics, the British colonies and the
13:12black kingdoms.
13:13>> They made it one country in 1910.
13:15>> Yes.
13:16>> An empire. It's what it is. Africa is as
13:18big as Western Europe. Right.
13:20>> Yeah.
13:20>> Uh a large chunk of Western Europe with
13:23many more different peoples. The British
13:25made it one country and ruled it as an
13:28empire. When the Africaners took control
13:30in 1948, they continue doing that.
13:34they were not ready in 1994 to say they
13:37only want a chunk of the country.
13:40Uh that is just my opinion. It's not a
13:42popular opinion under my own people. Um
13:45but I think it is the case.
13:46>> So nobody has ever suggested or proposed
13:48that let's split.
13:50>> Yes. Some some Africaners were ready to
13:52do that.
13:53>> I see
13:54>> some but not but not all.
13:56>> What? were they were even in a
13:58conversation where the the ANC said to
14:00one of the uh leaders back then you can
14:03take the Northern Cape which is the area
14:04that we are now in which is added and
14:06dry and not you know great economically
14:08and he said I can't go back to that to
14:11my people with that suggestion okay I
14:13must clarify what I said I I I did say I
14:16think the majority of whites Africans
14:17were maybe not ready for that I think
14:19they are readier I think they understand
14:22that at this stage um for our culture to
14:25survive for our people to survive. It's
14:27becoming necessary to create a place for
14:30us where we can live out our values and
14:33our and so on. So maybe they become
14:35however the black South Africans now
14:37feel that any attempt
14:41to give a part of South Africa for the
14:44Africaners for the white South Africans
14:46is treasured treason. It's not
14:48acceptable and it will never happen.
14:50>> Oh no. So because I said 1994, you said
14:53at that time the Africans would have
14:55rejected it. If it's proposed in 2026,
14:58who reject it?
14:59>> Black South Africans.
15:00>> Why would they reject it?
15:02>> But I thought you guys are bad boys
15:04already. [sighs]
15:06>> I think there's maybe a few reasons, but
15:09one of it is they just simply say, well,
15:11you had your chance to run this country.
15:12Now we want our chance, and you will be
15:14the subject of this country. Um, that
15:16this the kind of the feeling that I get.
15:19It's not based on any data or research.
15:22It's just the feelings are some of the
15:23comments I see and it will never happen.
15:26And and and it comes back to the
15:27discussion we had earlier. What how are
15:30Iranians in the middle of the desert
15:32hurting other people? We're not hurting
15:34anyone. We're not doing anyone any
15:36damage.
15:37>> If a segregation is proposed, listen,
15:41we've had enough of uh what is the
15:43population of blacks? 59 60 million.
15:45>> Yeah. About 60 million. Yes. and and
15:47total whites
15:48>> I don't know total whites I would guess
15:50about 5 million Africaners or two
15:51million
15:52>> Africans are 2 million
15:53>> say 4 million okay four million whites I
15:55guess
15:55>> so if the 4 million says yes we accept
15:58as a seed
16:01>> you in 2026 it is blacks who would say
16:04no to red
16:05>> yes it's been so politicized and you you
16:08know one of the reasons it gets so
16:09politicized is the ANC
16:12who've been constantly failing to
16:14deliver services to their own people in
16:16a in a proper maintainable sustainable
16:21way to they have failed to uplift their
16:24people out of poverty. They have failed
16:25to give basic services to their people.
16:27They have failed to change the economic
16:29realities of their people. They need a
16:31boogeyman. And that boogeyman is
16:33apartate. And that boogeyman they hang
16:36before the door of any and every white
16:38South African specifically African
16:40owners and they say if we slip an inch
16:43these white evil whites are going to
16:45come and take everything away from you.
16:47They're going to put you again under a
16:48partate. That is the boogeyman that they
16:50need to gain votes. So every time it's
16:53election year, you got all these noise
16:55about the part and about we at know when
16:59it's election years, next year is
17:00election year, we know the attacks are
17:02coming in.
17:02>> Do you have an African party that runs
17:04for elections?
17:05>> Yes, we do have the FF plus um which is
17:08considered Africana party. Um uh and
17:11then there's the DA which is a liberal
17:14English party kind of uh
17:16>> white people.
17:17>> Um it it used to start I think with
17:19liberal white people. It's majority
17:21black now. DDA I would I think
17:23>> do Iranians or would are Iranians
17:26interested in running for office?
17:28>> We we have a person that runs for office
17:31but um but I think many Iranians also
17:34have another perspective and that's
17:36perspective to say if we truly are a new
17:40alternative then we must build it from
17:42the ground up.
17:42>> I see. For example, we voluntary
17:44voluntarily doesn't vote in our
17:46neighboring municipalities,
17:48>> okay,
17:48>> elections because we say in good faith,
17:50[clears throat]
17:51we want you to leave us alone and we
17:53don't want to go and influence your
17:54politics.
17:54>> I see. [cough]
17:57>> Apologies.
17:57>> Yeah.
18:01>> Yeah. More for you.
18:03>> Thank you.
18:03>> Yeah.
18:05Does a white man have a chance, let's
18:08say on 18 years from today, 20 years,
18:11does a white man have a chance ever
18:13winning general election to be president
18:14of South Africa?
18:15>> No. No. [clears throat]
18:17>> No. Not in my opinion.
18:18>> Definitely. Yeah.
18:19>> Not in my opinion. Um because of my
18:23previous answer, how politicized
18:25everything has become.
18:28They will say uh you know the ANC will
18:30say if you vote for anyone else other
18:32than the ANC they're going to install a
18:35white president and it's going to be a
18:36partate all over again and there's this
18:38fear more
18:39>> I see oh I see I see
18:41>> so that is why we try to think in more
18:43local terms less big South Africa big
18:47state big government terms but more
18:49local terms how can we solve problems on
18:51a more local
18:52>> okay you are the head of the ideology
18:53already an ideology which is simply that
18:55we are here to make sure that we the bad
18:57guys are out and we are just here to
18:59protect our heritage, language, history
19:01and of course as Calvinists right in in
19:05your working system. Do you have a a PR
19:09that is trying hard just to win the soul
19:11of the other side which is the rest of
19:13the country that is
19:15>> do you guys
19:17>> Yes. Are you do we do you do that?
19:19>> Uh we try to do it. Um it has been very
19:22hard to do so also because of the
19:25political climate. We also you know
19:29um I think the correct thing to do would
19:32be to to engage the government directly
19:34which we have tried to do in multiple
19:36occasions. Um but it always comes to a
19:39point where the government makes
19:40promises to us. Just with the previous
19:43municipal elections they gone all out.
19:45They made a deal with the FF plus,
19:48right? The the more African Conservative
19:50Party in South Africa made a deal with
19:52them in which they said that they will
19:55formally go out and recognize Orana in
19:58exchange for a local vote to elect the
20:00premier of the of the province.
20:01>> Okay,
20:02>> that deal was made and I'm still waiting
20:05for the NC to deliver on that deal. They
20:07have not
20:10they've not gone out and done it.
20:11>> [snorts]
20:12>> Um so it's very tough to engage in good
20:15faith if the other side does not engage
20:17in good faith. So our strategy changed a
20:19bit.
20:20>> I see.
20:20>> Uh a few years ago we decided um there
20:25are reasonable people out there who want
20:27the same things that we do.
20:29>> And we found such a community. They
20:31actually approached us a chief of a
20:35traditional ka community in South
20:37Africa. black black
20:40reached out and he said and I'm quoting
20:43him now his words he said there's this
20:47country within the country Orana it's
20:49like the Vatican of Africa
20:52and he want to he wants to reach out to
20:54him and he called his son his son
20:56recently retold it at his funeral he's
20:58passed away and and he called his son
21:00and he said must I contact the Vatican
21:02of Africa the Urania community and his
21:05son said father chief go for
21:08and he went for it. He contacted us,
21:10reached out and a working relationship
21:12started. What do we share with uh the
21:14cause of people? We don't share our
21:16resources. We need our resources for our
21:18own projects.
21:21Also, sharing resources creates a kind
21:23of relationship of dependency. We share
21:25our ideas. We share our ideas. How did
21:28we build our own banking system? How do
21:30we maintain our own roads? How even when
21:34times are hard do we continue not to
21:38have get any government money?
21:40>> So this is a sample of what you said
21:42earlier that you would export knowledge.
21:43>> Export knowledge. Yeah. But but in this
21:45case it's not exporting knowledge for
21:48economic gain
21:48>> right
21:49>> because we uh we
21:50>> helping the neighbor to grow.
21:51>> Yes. So we help those people because in
21:54the light of
21:56I don't want to use the words a new
21:58South Africa. the words new South Africa
21:59has been uh misused and mistreated and
22:03dearly abused but another South Africa
22:05we want to imagine another South Africa
22:08then a community of communities is a
22:12good way we want to work on the African
22:14cause we want to help our people we want
22:16to build a stable and good future for
22:18our people and here's the way we do it
22:20take this for you and use it for your
22:22people obviously there are vast
22:24differences between ka people and
22:26African people so they will adapt it in
22:28and they have fashion which is in line
22:30with their culture and their ways of
22:31doing things and they have been doing
22:33so. Um but we have a formal memorandum
22:35of understanding of this community as
22:37with some others.
22:38>> Um and I think our attent our attention
22:42and our efforts is much better used
22:45>> in line with such a community than it is
22:48with engaging bad faith actors for
22:51example in in populist politics.
22:53>> Okay, now I'm getting to the end for
22:55you. So if this is an auditorium, there
22:59are 2,000 Gen Z South African blacks
23:02from all the other tribes and they are
23:04listening to you right now.
23:07Make two promises for them to know that
23:10this would benefit the whole country.
23:12You're of no threat to anyone.
23:14>> And what they should understand that you
23:16have never had opportunity to tell
23:18anyone
23:19>> so they can have a different view of
23:22Irania. What would it be?
23:24>> Okay, two things. Oh, take as many as
23:26>> I'm going to do two. I'm going to do
23:28two. [laughter]
23:28>> Okay.
23:29>> First thing,
23:29>> yes, is uh something that I learned from
23:34my dear uncle which said look at the
23:37track record. Every person, every
23:39business, every
23:42potential partner, potential lover that
23:44you meet, look at the track record.
23:47>> Look at the honor's track record. We
23:49have not threatened. We have not taken
23:51anything from anyone. We have never gone
23:54out to hurt. We've never been inclined
23:56to be violent. We've always been pro-
23:58stability, safety and freedom. We are a
24:01freedom. We want to our freedom, but we
24:03we do it in a certain fashion. Look at
24:04the honest track record. That is the
24:06first thing I would say. The second
24:08thing is a definition.
24:10Our definition of freedom. We say we
24:13want freedom. What's freedom? We can
24:16discuss that for the whole day. What is
24:19the definition of freedom for Iran? The
24:21definition of freedom is not to be ruled
24:24over and it's not to rule over others.
24:27It is a it is it goes it's a coin with
24:30two sides. You cannot say I want the
24:32freedom to not be ruled over and but I
24:35want to rule over others. You cannot say
24:37that. We do not want to rule over other
24:39people.
24:41Nelson Mandela flown into Iran in 1995
24:46when there was maybe 300 people living
24:47there. Landed his helicopter there. met
24:50with the former uh with the with the
24:53wife uh then widow of Henrik Ferv the
24:56so-called architect of Apart they met
25:00>> Nandala stood on the stairs at Orana's
25:03community door and he said the following
25:05I have no problem with these people
25:08ruling over themselves as long as they
25:10don't oppress me.
25:12Orana's definition of freedom is not to
25:15be ruled over. We are a free people
25:18but we also didn't want to rule over
25:20others. And that's the two things I
25:22>> absolute autonomy.
25:23>> Yes.
25:24>> Let's just live here.
25:25>> Yeah.
25:27>> Grow our people here and let life
25:30decide.
25:31>> That's it. We don't want to be ruled
25:34over and neither do we want to rule
25:35others.
25:36>> Yes.
25:40Boy, you came from a very far journey
25:42and I don't want to miss any question
25:43because I can't just call you back into
25:45the studio. I wish it's a live and
25:47somebody can ask questions. But here is
25:50um one and it's going to be a
25:52speculation and you just answer it. Is
25:55Orionia going to fly its own flag?
25:58>> Yes.
25:59>> Okay. What would the flag stand for?
26:02>> We already have our own flag.
26:04>> You do. Is that what's
26:05>> here? Here we go.
26:06>> On your liel,
26:07>> you will see that it is not the old
26:09South African flag. It is a new flag
26:11that we designed.
26:12>> It has black
26:14>> uh it's blue
26:15>> blue
26:15>> blue white and orange.
26:17>> Okay.
26:18>> In a in a in a symbolic way it's used.
26:23This is this is the colors from it's
26:25always been the colors from our flags
26:26from the Dutch
26:27>> from the Flemish
26:29and and and through our history as
26:31Africaners as well.
26:33But on it is not only colors. There's on
26:36it a symbol. A symbol of a young man. It
26:41is the middle column of the flag. And it
26:45is a young man that rolls up his sleeves
26:48because he's preparing to work.
26:50Um
26:52that is our symbol
26:54>> for two reasons.
26:55>> The first reason is very practical. It's
26:57to say that in Iran we do our own work.
27:01physical menial labor we do ourselves
27:04and in that way we live in justice to
27:08other communities because we are not
27:10exploiting them. The other one is to say
27:14no one is going to give Africaners a
27:16future. We stand unapologetically. We
27:18stand it's okay to be on our own side.
27:20We have the right to build our own
27:22future but we have to do it ourselves.
27:25It is to say no one is coming to save
27:27us. No one is going to uh fly in, solve
27:32our problems, fly out. We need to roll
27:34up our sleeves. The mind shift needs to
27:38be the paragent shift needs to be made.
27:40If you are not willing to create your
27:42own future, you do not have a future.
27:45Create your own future yourself. And
27:47that is why he's rolling up his sleeves.
27:49>> 10 hectares of land is not
27:52>> 10,000.
27:52>> 10,000 hectares. It's not too small and
27:55it's not too big. Wouldn't this require
27:57therefore that you have to control your
27:59population
28:01>> because at one point you may or
28:03>> Yes, hopefully we can expand our land a
28:05bit. The kua is so vast. It is so big.
28:08Uh it's it's tough to fathom exactly how
28:10big it is if you if you it's it's um
28:13what I don't think maybe Arizona. I'm
28:15not too in the state of Arizona. Okay.
28:17So your prayer size but the but the
28:19landscape.
28:19>> So your prayer is that nobody comes and
28:21buys quickly right now. Then of course
28:24you can expand as fast as you want. I
28:26see.
28:26>> Yeah. So even if we take a small
28:28example, if we from our neighboring town
28:31on the north side to our neighboring
28:32town on the on the south side currently
28:3640 km to the 150 to the other. If we
28:39control that land we have a area as big
28:41as um Singapore.
28:43>> Just who is the who or what in your
28:46opinion is the number one enemy of South
28:49Africa? By enemy I don't mean an
28:53invading army but what is hurting
28:56>> South Africa in your opinion is it an
28:58external thing
29:01>> propaganda for or is it internal what is
29:04>> very good question
29:05>> yeah number one enemy of South Africa
29:08because it took he got independence from
29:10you or not independence but apart ended
29:12in 1994 let's say right so it's about 32
29:14years ago I was there 2 years ago 2022
29:18Amaz beautiful
29:20>> and And I saw they took me around and
29:22showed me the Durban train station. It's
29:25in ruins. Trains are dead on the on the
29:28tracks. Trs have been stolen and sent to
29:31China. Electricity is now load shedding.
29:33What is
29:35>> What is the enemy of South Africa?
29:38>> There's a few. I'm trying to think which
29:40one is the worst. I think um if we want
29:43to be practical the the level of greed
29:46and corruption that we are seeing from
29:48people with with foreign interests or
29:51the level of greed and corruption in the
29:54elected officials of the ANC people who
29:56are plundering the country plundering
29:58the train stations um it's big enemies
30:02um we we face many things we face um uh
30:05uh if if we refer to South Africa in
30:08general there are crime is a big problem
30:11corrupt corruption is a big problem and
30:12so on. I obviously from my perspective
30:15always want to answer from the
30:17perspective of reconers where things
30:18like farm murders and um uh you know uh
30:22blatant disregard for our rights are big
30:25issues but if I have to answer for the
30:29state of South Africa I think a big
30:31problem is victimhood
30:34inherent internalized victimhood
30:38because if you always have to blame
30:40someone else for your problems and
30:42continue to do that to get elected again
30:45as a as a government official and things
30:46like that. Then you get to a position
30:49where
30:51you build lies upon lies upon lies.
30:56You hurt even the hurting their own
30:58people. They're putting their people in
31:01a position where it's very tough to
31:03recover from.
31:05Um
31:07the Africaners went through hell under
31:09the English.
31:1130,000 women died in concentration camp.
31:13Women and children died in concentration
31:14camps during the war. We got extremely
31:17poor.
31:19And whatever the case might be of the
31:21totality of what happened under the
31:23previous regime in South Africa,
31:25our first priority was to live our lift
31:28our people out of that. Make them
31:30self-reliant, make them make plans, lift
31:32them up, take Africans from a kitchen
31:35language to an academic language, a
31:36language in which the heart was
31:38transplanted. The first art in the world
31:39was transplotted in Africans. The f the
31:41we we we the uh we figured out how to
31:44split the atom in Africans on our own
31:46unique way. The only only people who did
31:48it in that way in the world. We had a
31:50space program in Africans. We uplifted
31:52our people. The NC is not doing that now
31:55for their people because what's much
31:57easier is to perpetuate a victimhood
32:00narrative. You say everything that is
32:02wrong with you is someone else's fault.
32:05Every bit of suffrage that you feel is
32:06someone else's fault. And there they
32:08are. It's the Africaners. Hate them.
32:11>> Like I was speaking to you backstage
32:13when I said that one of my objective
32:16especially for the young ones on the
32:18African continent is when you arrive at
32:20a conclusion, you build a soft prison
32:22around you because then you are waiting
32:25for the conclusion you've made to change
32:27so you can be free.
32:28>> So if Africans or white people in South
32:30Africa are the problem, it means then
32:32you are waiting for them to change.
32:35>> Uhhuh. By the way, has anybody told you
32:37you look like a Richard Gear? I don't
32:40know. [laughter]
32:42>> So, you're right about the victimhood.
32:45Even if the victimhood is true,
32:48>> don't leave it.
32:49>> Yes.
32:49>> And don't use it to Okay. Let me ask
32:52you, is there anywhere in the world
32:54where Irania has been done and it works?
32:57Is there any country outside?
33:00>> Um, I would say not so intentional as in
33:03our case. M but I think there are so
33:06many especially in South Africa where
33:07there's so much cultural diversity.
33:09There are many communities who kind of
33:11run like without acknowledging it
33:13cultural zulu communities cause
33:15communities and whatnot. Uh in terms of
33:17intentional communities, you have
33:18non-politicized intentional communities
33:20around things like I don't know Bitcoin,
33:23free market ideas, um uh uh uh you know
33:28um some some other non-political things
33:31and then you have there's a community in
33:33the US return to the land which use some
33:36of our ideas to establish their version
33:38of their own intentional community.
33:40>> So there are examples.
33:41>> Are you similar to the Amish? I'm sure
33:43you are aware of that.
33:44>> Yes. Uh well in a certain sense yes and
33:46in a certain sense no in the sense that
33:48uh they do what they do to preserve
33:50something.
33:51>> Okay.
33:51>> We are similar to them.
33:53>> Okay.
33:53>> In the sense that we embrace technology
33:55progress.
33:56>> Okay. That's where you're different.
33:57>> We are we are definitely
34:00a contrast there. I see. Um you have
34:03never worried now there's a growing
34:05nationalism across Germany uh UK of
34:08course in the United States that maybe
34:11they will look at you wrongly and that
34:12will give them some booster as
34:14nationalists to say yes this is what we
34:16are supposed to do. Have you heard that
34:18from anyone very much? You've heard that
34:20>> okay
34:21>> very often. Um I always use the example
34:24um
34:26at in a in a very short while um you
34:28know we get a lot of international v
34:30visitors in Irania mostly journalists or
34:32tourists.
34:33>> Okay.
34:33>> People who come to check out the
34:35community um
34:37including once there was a a lady from
34:40Russia
34:42and a guy from Germany. Both wanted to
34:44see.
34:45>> Okay. turned out the one was a
34:46full-blown uh communist and the other
34:49one was a full-blown fascist. And then
34:52and and both thought Irania was the
34:53perfect model for them. And shortly
34:56after them, a group from the United
34:58States came, they were black separatists
35:01with Marxist ideals. They also looked at
35:04Iran as example. So everyone uses
35:07>> when they look at you and read about
35:08you, like you said, the one that came
35:10the government came in and said this is
35:12a socialist.
35:12>> People see what they want to see. People
35:14see what they want to see. I think
35:16>> it's like an abstract art. You describe
35:18what it is and but only you understand
35:20what you see.
35:21>> I hope stays pretty and never becomes a
35:25more than abstract art. So the first top
35:28three criteria, one absolute zero
35:31tolerance for drug of any kind,
35:35violence of any kind, criminal
35:37background of any crime because you're
35:39saying you have right now a third of
35:40your population, vulnerable population,
35:43introducing this and you've already
35:45killed the future of Orania. So you are
35:47very vigilant on that. Urania Orania is
35:50to be considered the new alternative as
35:53we call it or in other words
35:55>> communi comm community comm community
35:56comm community comm community comm
35:56community comm community comm community
35:56comm community comm community comm
35:56community commun comm community
35:57communitarianism. Now you you for that
35:59word you you can say it say it again
36:02>> communitarianism.
36:03>> Oh communitarianism it's not socialism
36:06because according to you socialism means
36:08yes you volunteer not necessarily you
36:10work for the state but you depend on the
36:12government and other taxpayers money.
36:14You are more as you said free market and
36:18the two promises you made to the Gen Z
36:20of South Africa. You have not check
36:23people by their track record even in
36:25love you're saying so by their track
36:27record and since you've been there since
36:291991 you have never attacked inflicted
36:32violence anything of that nature on the
36:35rest of the community. You believe that
36:38if your community becomes solid and grow
36:40it will be a blueprint for the rest of
36:42the country and already now a Kosa tribe
36:45has approached you for techno
36:47technocratic advice. Not necessarily you
36:50going to use your your whatever infra to
36:52help them because you said it will
36:54create a dependency and you don't want
36:56that. Finally in your philosophy we want
36:58to live a life where we are not rude and
37:00neither do we want to rule. My last
37:03question is more personal. Now, by the
37:04way, are you married and have your own
37:06family? Because I had
37:07>> No, I'm unmarried.
37:08>> You're married?
37:08>> I'm not married. No.
37:09>> Oh, because many people are going to
37:11call and ask, you know. [laughter]
37:13Anyway, uh my last question, which is
37:15more personal. So, I'm planning to make
37:17this fair. I'll do a part two. I want to
37:19visit South Africa next year, maybe mid
37:21next year, and come to
37:24uh so that I can ask some of the people
37:27from their citizens mouth, okay? and
37:30some uh of South Africans so that I have
37:33a balance and I can bring it here and
37:35play for my people. Now if during my
37:37visit one of your women sees Zand and
37:40said oh I like this guy I want to marry
37:42him now who loses what she loses oria
37:44citizenship or I have to convert her
37:47[laughter]
37:48to come what will it be? Well, that is
37:51an interesting question. We will you
37:52will first have to go over the first
37:54gate and that is to get one of our women
37:55to fall in [laughter] love with you and
37:57they and they're not so easy to
37:59persuade. Okay.
38:00>> Um so firstly I would say um you know
38:02that's a question we get a lot. It's
38:04setting up kind of a hypothetical
38:06scenario to kind of also test
38:08>> to see where fits in. And um you know as
38:12I said in the beginning Iran is about
38:13culture. It is about our our culture and
38:16and and the long way that we come from
38:18that. Currently, I think the odds of uh
38:22of her leaving Irania are slightly
38:26higher.
38:27>> For them, they are free.
38:28>> She will probably take up refugee status
38:30in the United States now, which is quite
38:33popular.
38:33>> Okay, that is your answer. Meaning take
38:35her away. [laughter]
38:36>> I think I think I think that is um that
38:40is you know what what would more likely
38:43happen.
38:44>> Yeah. because um you know still a
38:47community for African. Um the uh
38:52the the issue that we face is that we
38:54are under a lot of demographic pressure
38:57in South Africa. We as you said a small
38:59minority. So our way of life, our our um
39:03you know our our culture, our genetic
39:06pool is is under pressure in South
39:08Africa and our and our situation of
39:11farmer murders and everything. Our
39:12community is very well aware of that
39:13pressure that they are under and and for
39:16very logical reasons as we were
39:18concerned about English when we were
39:20being um oppressed by the British
39:23currently we are demographically kind of
39:25concerned about what is going on with
39:27our people. So, so I think um I think
39:30that is that is the more likely case is
39:32is is that those concerns are currently
39:36something that we feel [snorts] our
39:38people feel threatened demographically
39:40and and I think so
39:41>> you sound like an optimist. What do you
39:43see in the future as a perfect
39:45relationship between South Africa and
39:47Irania? In your gut, what do you see?
39:53I think it's some somewhere along the
39:56lines of mutual recognition.
39:57>> I see
39:58>> mutual recognition.
40:01Um
40:02if there are not mutual recognition
40:04there cannot be a a normalized
40:06relationship.
40:09Now currently there are recognition of
40:13Africaners by the government mostly in a
40:15negative sense.
40:16>> I see. Yes, this group of people do
40:19exist as a people, but they are so bad
40:22and so evil that maybe they should not
40:24even exist. Maybe they should not even
40:27own land. Maybe they should not even be
40:28here. Maybe they should go. So,
40:31understanding that there are a group of
40:32people,
40:34but that they they they are only in a
40:36negative sense recognized.
40:39Uh other people um may be like us, but
40:43they don't recognize us as a people.
40:44they just see us as individualists. Uh
40:47and and as we we have a group identity
40:50as well. We don't only have a
40:52individualist liberal kind of identity.
40:54We have a group identity. Um so on the
40:57one hand people who recognize our group
41:01identity but say it's only bad and for
41:02for that reason shouldn't exist. Other
41:04people only see our individual
41:06identities and um and that's also not
41:08enough for us. So a good relationship
41:10would be one where there's uh
41:13reciprocity of of recognition.
41:15>> I see.
41:15>> On a good faith basis because with
41:18recognition comes stability.
41:20>> I see.
41:21>> And and by the way just a just a
41:23antidote for just a just a comment on
41:26that. That is why Africaners got so
41:31excited when the president of the United
41:34States, the biggest country, the the
41:36strongest country in the world, called
41:39them by their name and said there are a
41:41group of people called the Africaners.
41:42Now there's vast political implications
41:44for the rest. But for us, it was worth
41:47something to be recognized that we are a
41:49people, that we are a a folk, that we
41:52are a distinct group of people. So in
41:54that recognition I say well the logical
41:56next step is we don't want to be
41:57refugees in the United States. We don't
41:59want to be refugees. Sure uh there are
42:02people who want to come here and as long
42:04as we cannot guarantee them safety
42:07security opportunity in South Africa
42:08because we cannot it's going higher it's
42:11going tough it would be unfair for me to
42:13take away the opportunity for those who
42:15want to come to come. It would be
42:16unfair. I don't want to do that. But in
42:18general I would say that we would rather
42:21want to stay there. That is that is
42:23where we feel at home. That is our
42:26place, our our area. That is where we
42:29became a people.
42:31So, President Donald Trump recognized us
42:33as a people. Now, we say, well, a people
42:35need a place. We're already building.
42:39In the ' 90s with the negotiations,
42:41there were already recognition in
42:43section 235 of the constitution for that
42:46next that next stop on the train track.
42:49A people need a place. So we ask
42:52>> which other country in Europe have been
42:54explicit in its support.
42:57As a state, no one.
42:59>> As a state, no one. We do have friends,
43:02good friends which support us. I think
43:04of a uh people in the Flemish
43:06Parliament. Um
43:07>> individual politicians,
43:08>> individual politicians under one party,
43:11uh the the the farms belong, they
43:12support us. We've got a community in in
43:14in Italy, South Tyrell, which supports
43:16us. We've got some individual Russians
43:19and a lot of Americans and and so on.
43:21But as a government,
43:23>> no,
43:23>> the Europeans more likely support the
43:25ANC.
43:25>> I see. actually you know they recently
43:28passed the EU gave big big big loans
43:32billions of of eos to the again so
43:36>> so kind of has a a way around some of
43:39President Trump's um financial
43:41implications on the status
43:43>> when uh people like the people from
43:45Russia who came to visit do you guys
43:47have guest houses within
43:49>> you do
43:50>> yes
43:50>> oh
43:50>> tourism is our fourth biggest economic
43:52>> also tourism now what is it that that
43:55attracts What is the tourism in Urania?
43:57>> Uh well, I say number one thing is the
43:59strangeness of Urania, the uniqueness.
44:01So people want to see, you know, they're
44:03curious.
44:03>> I see.
44:04>> There's also the factor of um I think
44:08recurringly
44:09a lot of our income from tourists is
44:11African who lives elsewhere in in South
44:13Africa but want to come relax two, three
44:15weeks and they come every year three
44:17weeks to Irania or whatever. They they
44:18they they want to be between African
44:21participate in cultural activities. For
44:23example, the biggest holiday, the uh uh
44:26public holiday
44:28culturally that we have is 16th of
44:30December, the day of the vow. Major
44:32battle between the four trackers and the
44:34Zulu. 400 Africaners, about 10,000
44:38Zulus. Major battle. We we knew if it
44:42was in our hands, we couldn't win. We
44:43made a covenant to God. We got the
44:46victory against all odds. We celebrate
44:48that as a holy day. Many Africaners
44:50travel to come celebrate that day in
44:52Irania because they feel they are
44:53between other Africaners. So that's also
44:56part of of of tourism. But but many
44:59peoples come for the Russians for
45:01example or the Americans or the Chinese
45:04people, Taiwanese people, uh Polish
45:07people, every every group, many African
45:10African people,
45:12>> uh they come because they are curious.
45:15>> Okay. Well guys, uh, next year I'm going
45:17and, uh, if you are a follower of the
45:20Rethink family and you want to come
45:22along with me, you get a better
45:24reception while I'm there. Seriously
45:26speaking. Um, you know, and then you get
45:29to see South Africa as a whole. It's a
45:31beautiful country. The greenery, the
45:33power is unbelievable. And I think uh,
45:36now are you a very busy man when you're
45:38in?
45:40>> Yes. Yes, I am.
45:41>> Very, very busy. But when visitors come,
45:43they always see you. I will I will I
45:45will make time and to make sure that I
45:48move with you to protect our women
45:50there. [laughter]
45:53>> Just thank you so much for this man.
45:56Thank you.
45:56>> That was a good chat. Thank you.
45:57>> Yes. Yes. And uh on behalf of the studio
46:00here, we can only wish you the best of
46:02luck
46:03>> that Orania stays and have a wonderful
46:06relationship where your kids will grow
46:08and say we're proud the struggle is
46:10over. black, white, Asian, South
46:13Africans are now together living and you
46:16are not ruling anybody and nobody's
46:17ruling you but everybody respect each
46:20other mutually. So God speed.
46:23>> Thank you very much and thank you for
46:24the opportunity to to speak on the
46:26platform and and tell a little bit about
46:28our story.
46:28>> Yeah, it means a lot. Now if you have
46:30any question to me about anything you
46:32want to know or they want to know,
46:33please otherwise I know you've spoken
46:35for quite a time now and I will let you
46:37go because you're on a busy itinerary.
46:39>> Thank you. Thank you.
46:46[music]

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This page contains the full transcript of Zanu Project Rethink - Head of White Only Town Part 2 by Franck Zanu, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 8,216 words across 1,279 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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