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Zanu Project Rethink - Alphonso McGriff III — Transcript

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0:02[Music]
0:11hello my name is Alonso McGriff welcome
0:13to project rethink I'm here today
0:17because I may have some questions about
0:21the idea that slavery was never based on
0:26racism so the first question I have for
0:28you today is can you please define for
0:31me what you mean when you use the word
0:34slavery by the way thank you so much for
0:36coming I know you came from a very uh
0:39you know uh far away place and I I dig
0:41your outfit really Regal and reminds me
0:45of home I miss home yes um I've I've
0:47heard it so many times and it came to me
0:49when I was in college people keep
0:51talking about slavery and racism slavery
0:54and racism so um I decided to do a
0:57little dive and have a discussion about
1:00what they mean when they said slavery um
1:03was based on racism and what I he from
1:06people is because uh white people went
1:07to Africa to buy black people and so
1:10that's where uh the whole thing became
1:12my favorite topic and um I have
1:14discussed it in some forums and some
1:17people finally got to understand my
1:19point so if you so when you use the word
1:23slavery what do you mean oh buying
1:25people and keeping them as properties as
1:28it happened around the world world and
1:31first thing I I would like to do is um
1:33uh clarify when I say race you know this
1:36is what I was taught in school um uh you
1:39know we were were taught in school there
1:40are three major Races they say simply
1:43using regions and people skin color to
1:46differentiate when you're talking about
1:48somebody who's mongoid it means he comes
1:50from Asia South Korea Japan China that's
1:53right if you talk about somebody being
1:55white- skinned you mean he's from Europe
1:57Caucasian if you talk about somebody
1:59being gr you mean he's from Africa now
2:02if you die in the United States of
2:04America after 200 years if an
2:06anthropologist was able to exume you he
2:09would not say this man was an
2:11African-American by your bone structure
2:14everything he would say this man was a
2:16negroid if uh somebody from the mongoid
2:19race which is Asia dies you don't say
2:22this person was uh you know um yellow
2:26skin you say this person was a Mong so
2:28race now if slavery was based on race
2:32then it means that slavery would have
2:34only happened between two
2:38continents which you mean that white
2:40people go to Africa and buy human beings
2:42and bring it to their land but we all
2:44know that was not the case slavery was
2:47never between white and black
2:51only so are you referencing when you say
2:54slavery are you talking about indenture
2:56servitude are you talking about cadow
2:58slavery what what kind of slavery are
3:00you referencing form that prevents one
3:03human being from being his own
3:05autonomous person and now it's a
3:08property of another who would tell him
3:10or her what to do when to sleep no
3:13matter how long you H them that's what I
3:15mean by slavery once you are taken from
3:17your own controlled environment and
3:19become the property of another no matter
3:22what he used you to do since that
3:24freedom is gone and it's in his hands
3:27you are a slave that's what I mean okay
3:29so General understanding of
3:32slavery you told me about
3:34race what is
3:37racism or racism you would use as a a
3:41noun that is describes the group of
3:44people I've just described the
3:46relationship between those three group
3:47of people which is the major ones I'm
3:49talking about that are Sub sub races
3:52that relationship is an an
3:55ism the cultural the explanation of the
3:58cultural the living of the culture is an
4:00ism in itself because there is no race
4:02that doesn't have its own philosophy
4:03religion history ethnicity food that is
4:07what makes people identify race
4:09externally I can tell a Chinese without
4:12seeing one the red color the dragon the
4:15food yes you name those things I say
4:18you're talking about a Chinese a
4:20Japanese white with a red and then
4:23colorful kimono if you can I say you're
4:26talking about a
4:27Japanese I can even so some extent tell
4:30you a black person you know the flowery
4:33shirts the shoes the Hat til to one side
4:36the walking that is a black guy a white
4:39man can try it all they want they can so
4:43those are the external things that says
4:45yes you're talking about these people a
4:47middle eastern person the so raises in
4:49between the beard is important and then
4:52the White tban and The White Snake and
4:55all that and they like gold a lot that's
4:57yes so when you hear
5:00the term
5:02racism you what comes to mind to you is
5:05just
5:06simply the cultural differences yes the
5:10relationship between different races if
5:13you
5:16have different races in one place well
5:20there got to be an Isom to identify so
5:23when I hear racism well the world is
5:24racist by Nature if God created people
5:28he created them different
5:30and therefore already naturally the
5:32world is
5:33racist okay now when you say racism
5:37somebody is talking about one second the
5:40world is racist yes because everybody
5:43was created differently that's correct
5:45okay go ahead so uh when I came to the
5:48United States any misbehavior from
5:51another person as long as he has a
5:53different color that Mis Behavior become
5:56racism or racist however between black
5:59black
6:01people the same behavior you would you
6:03would get from another person and call
6:06it racist between black people that that
6:08behavior is always there between white
6:10people that RAC that behavior is always
6:13there between Spanish people it's always
6:15there so
6:17because people are created differently
6:20the world is racist yes that's your
6:23point yes racist in this I am simply
6:25using it as an English word to say that
6:28you have different races you must
6:32understand that relationships would be
6:33that way if I decide to travel to Asia
6:38which I did I had to go through the
6:40Washington Times have to pay for me to
6:42go through cultural Multicultural
6:45understanding before I got there
6:46Japanese never attack each other in
6:48public you don't criticize a Japanese in
6:51public all those things I have to learn
6:52painful as it was so when I got there I
6:55knew that I am never going to understand
6:5999% of their
7:02behaviors and they would not understand
7:04mine either it would take a while so
7:08that was in my
7:09head and so it made my life easy for me
7:13to be there now if people only misbehave
7:16towards each other based on skin color I
7:18would have had a very smooth entry to
7:21the United States in Bridgeport when I
7:23arrived here because of my background
7:25the work I did before I came to college
7:28uh my uh my academic adviser insisted
7:31that I should go to the high school
7:32public high schools in Bridgeport to
7:34speak and just share with the kids what
7:35I have traveled the world as a reporter
7:38and I will tell you even as a grown
7:40mental now when I think about my
7:41experience in those classrooms I share
7:44tears black kids no white person among
7:47them they call me all kinds of names
7:49they make fun of my accent they ask me
7:51if I've ever slept with a lion a ask me
7:53if I'm a Buddhist crater all kinds of
7:55things well let's let's let's get back
7:58to the point which is slavery was never
8:02based on racism right
8:05so based on what you're saying you're
8:07contradicting the statement mhm because
8:10you saying slavery is holding people
8:14against their will MH and you saying the
8:17world is racist mhm because everybody's
8:21of different races yes so if that's true
8:24then your statement slavery was never
8:26based on racism
8:30is not true well we're talking two
8:31different things no no no
8:34I'm I would defend what I mean by it's
8:36not based on racism and I be defend what
8:37I mean by the world is racist because
8:39you have many other races that's all
8:41those are two different things I'm
8:42trying to explain okay so explain
8:46slavery was never based on racism oh for
8:49example my father's tribe A Tribe we
8:52didn't buy slaves from a different tribe
8:54we bought from within each other MH
8:58until very recently in the ebo tribe of
9:02Nigeria there was a huge population of
9:04people known as the OSU tribe
9:07U this is not EOS buying another
9:10tribe they bought each other and sold to
9:13another and you work in the farm and you
9:16become an U which means my children will
9:18not go to school with you I can't trade
9:20with you when when you finally are left
9:22free you segregate yourself to another
9:26Village same skin color in Asia yeah the
9:30Chinese could not become 1.6 billion
9:32human being if the Ming dynasty was not
9:34buying slaves on its way but they were
9:36of the same skin color of the same
9:38ethnicity of the same food of the same
9:40religion in India who were called The
9:42Untouchables they were former slaves
9:44that Indian people feel you are a third
9:46class we can't deal with you they were
9:48not African they were not a English
9:50people they were not white now let's
9:51talk about the bar point the point
9:54you're
9:55making is that slavery was never based
10:00on racism yes is a world view that's the
10:04context you're refence not a world view
10:06is a practice that happened among people
10:09of the same I'm I'm referencing the
10:11statement the statement slavery was
10:14never based on racism yes is a world
10:17view it's it's a statement in reference
10:20to a view of the world and slavery and
10:24racism right is is that what you're
10:27saying you're referencing the world and
10:30the context of the world when you make
10:32that statement if I understand what you
10:35mean by what I am saying is that people
10:38well you you just mentioned a bunch of
10:39different cultures and countries and how
10:42they practice this thing and everybody
10:45so my question to you is is that a
10:49slavery was never based on racism is
10:51that a world view I don't understand the
10:53world view as we're using it is that a
10:56is that a practi referencing a bunch of
10:58countries in the world yeah and you're
11:01speaking about slavery yes in that cont
11:04the way I understand world view is when
11:06you hold a certain philosophy about a
11:07certain subject mhm and it doesn't have
11:11to be practical it doesn't have to be
11:12real it's a philosophy I'm not I am
11:14describing an event that has happened to
11:16everybody let's use that word me
11:18rephrase my
11:20language when you use the statement
11:22slavery was never based on racis rism
11:25yes you are referencing countries all
11:29all over the world yeah countries or yes
11:33so
11:35now let's come to America
11:39MH and speak in reference to the
11:43enslavement of African people in America
11:47mhm would you still hold that view are
11:50you still saying that in
11:53America slavery was never based on
11:57racism yes
11:59the same thing that spread it in Africa
12:02the same thing that caused it in Asia
12:04the same thing that caused it in Europe
12:05is the same thing that caused it in
12:06America that's all what caused it
12:08economic
12:09needs the weaker person you can catch
12:12catch him the B the the the Bary gang
12:16they were able to catch the northern
12:18Europeans of the slavics and all these
12:20people because they were nearer to them
12:22they can catch them so whoever is weak
12:23for you to keep and use for your
12:25economic needs slavery was purely based
12:27on economic needs okay so and
12:30America it was based purely on economic
12:34needs yes they use them economically
12:36okay
12:39so was it based on Purely
12:43using blacks from Africa for economic
12:46need they use other people they can
12:48catch Indians and Chinese no here here
12:51in America
12:53mhm slavery that took place here in
12:56America
13:00because they chose to bring Africans
13:04here and enslave them MH are you saying
13:08that it wasn't are you saying that it
13:11was economic needs to choose and
13:13exclusively enslave black people not
13:16exclusively enslave black
13:17people again we we talk about the
13:20context of the enslavement it's not
13:22exclusively they chose black people
13:24white people in Europe but white people
13:26we're talking about America yes American
13:29uh uh got black people to do the
13:31economic needs they want here okay okay
13:35and black people were the only people
13:37who were Enslaved the way they were here
13:40in America right
13:43yeah so then the enslavement of a people
13:47here in America was based on race no you
13:52why would it be based on why would it
13:54not be because they bought people they
13:55can buy maybe they were cheaper
13:59than if they bought Europeans okay but
14:02once they arrived here who was
14:04exclusively being aens slaved but why
14:06should it be exclusively enslaved who
14:08who was it what does mean by exclusive I
14:11can only I have what I can afford
14:14Americans bought black people for a a
14:18whole lot of reasons one of them I would
14:20believe is that they easy to be
14:22purchased right okay so and they
14:24purchased them let's let's agree blacks
14:26were easy to be purchased yes and they
14:30purchased them
14:31yeah
14:33so it was still based on race because
14:37blacks were easy to be purchased no
14:39based on economy if it was Indians who
14:42were easy to be purchased it would have
14:43purchased Indians also if it was
14:44European would have Pur blacks yes it
14:47was Africans right yes but you keep
14:50saying just because it was blacks and I
14:52keep explaining to you that that's based
14:54on he I mean go back and maybe I can
14:57explain it to you
14:59then then you can if slavery happened
15:02always everywhere always between only
15:05two distinct colors then we can say
15:07slavy was but in Europe in Asia everyone
15:11has bought somebody and held somebody as
15:13a slave same colors now you ask me about
15:17America yes America bought black people
15:19and held them as slaves I believe what
15:22they use them for for economic purposes
15:24and it was based on race no no it wasn't
15:28no okay explain to me what Black Codes
15:30were black what Black Codes Code Black
15:35Codes are you famili what Black Codes no
15:38okay black codes in
15:41America there were bills introduced in
15:43the legislatures of several Southern
15:46States after the UF Civil War in
15:491865 the codes forced Negroes and don't
15:53say Indians don't say Chinese don't say
15:56nobody else M the slow the Force Negroes
16:00to work for meal wages for their former
16:02owners MH and deprive them of their
16:05freedom of movement and their right to
16:07own and rent land they also permitted
16:10the use of forced negro child labor and
16:14forbade you keep hearing the word negro
16:16see that that's black exclusive yeah
16:18yeah it's black Negroes to hold meetings
16:20wouldn't allow Negroes to hold meetings
16:21of any kind carry weapons or Mary whites
16:24Provisions uh were made for the
16:26formation of special courts to deal with
16:29crimes committed BYO so they had a
16:31special Court separate for black
16:34people black codes were restrictive laws
16:37designed to limit the freedom of
16:40African-Americans don't say whites don't
16:42say Indians don't say Japanese
16:44MH uh restrict the laws designs to limit
16:48the freedom of African-Americans and
16:50ensure their availability as cheap labor
16:52force after slavery was abolished uh
16:55during the Civil War
16:59uh again Black Codes uh restricted the
17:03rights to own property conduct business
17:05buy and Lease land and move freely
17:07through public spaces a central element
17:10of the Black Codes were vagrancy Laws
17:12states criminalized men who were out of
17:15work and who were not working at jobs
17:19whites recognize so what I'm saying to
17:25you that was specifically
17:29on Race no the quotes were made for the
17:32slaves no no first the
17:36language is a little bit
17:38Reckless nobody was slaves and nobody
17:42was born slaves humans were born and
17:47enslaved yes and when you use the term
17:50enslaved it helps people understand that
17:53somebody was responsible for a
17:55particular type of behavior so they were
17:59enslaved so when I talk about the Black
18:01Codes MH I'm saying whites specifically
18:06through legislation put into act things
18:10to specifically hold blacks back again
18:14based on race Asians were
18:17here indigenous people called Indians
18:19were here Japanese were in America
18:21Japanese were here but these black all
18:24right let me I understand your cut I
18:26think it's too long okay go ahead go
18:28ahead goad start go
18:30ahead what I'm saying to you you are
18:32saying Japanese were here is true Arabs
18:35were here is true the people I bought as
18:37slaves I made codes for them everywhere
18:40I went in Japan the same codes you you
18:42you've read they made it for the Koreans
18:44in China they made it for those they
18:46bought as slaves in Europe they made it
18:47for those they bought for this CES apply
18:49to anyone who has been held as a slave I
18:52am just simply saying if now let me
18:55explain myself one more time no you have
18:57to be patient and listen to me the the
18:59statement said slavery the act of
19:02holding a human being and taking away
19:03his freedom is never based only on and
19:07it's never based on racism and I have
19:10previous by starting only is not here
19:12yes but it's not based on racism that's
19:15correct it's not based on racism and I
19:17started by telling you a tribe which is
19:19the movie now the woman came Nigeria uh
19:22Africa started holding slaves of their
19:24kind same skin color Europeans did it if
19:28conclusion
19:29if it was based on racism then Europeans
19:31should never have engaged in holding
19:34each other as slaves if it was based on
19:36racism in the Ottoman Empire of the
19:38Middle East Arab should never bought
19:39other Arabs if it was based on racism
19:42then uh Asia shouldn't buy each other
19:45that is my statement prove me that no
19:48these places never held each other as
19:50slaves then my statement is wrong but
19:52the codes you're reading and whites
19:54bought blacks I am not saying it's the
19:56same slavery okay okay and again we
20:01dealt with the word race and now we can
20:04address the word slavery because it's
20:07different types of slavery you've asked
20:10me have explained for me the absence of
20:13freedom of an individual held by other
20:15is slavery go ahead is it okay if I say
20:17what my thoughts okay sure sure sure
20:19sure sure I totally you have the floor
20:21now okay so Shadow slavery is a system
20:24in which allow people considered legal
20:26property to be bought sold and owned
20:29forever it was uh lawful and supported
20:32by the United States and European powers
20:34from the 15th to the 18th
20:36centuries indentured
20:39servitude um is a form of Labor which
20:42your person is contracted to work
20:44without a salary for for a specific
20:46number of years and then they can choose
20:48to remain with that group or move on on
20:51their own so there's there's slavery is
20:54not just a word that just means the same
20:57thing which is my point for bringing up
21:00all kinds of slavery you described was
21:02never based on race let let let me
21:05finish
21:06yeah
21:08okay so because we can establish that
21:12there are different types of
21:16slavery there was a form of slavery
21:19exacted on black people in
21:24America that was such that
21:29the those coming from Africa and those
21:33who are already here who were enslaved
21:35like who would were totally who were
21:38here already enslaved sir that's not the
21:40point okay we're talking about I don't
21:42want to keep moving the gold post all
21:44over the place
21:45okay so um they
21:50were enslaved in a way that they were
21:54completely removed from knowledge of
21:58their history history and their culture
22:00and their languages and even of
22:03themselves to the point that it was just
22:06in the 50s 40s and 50s that black people
22:10in America began to find out because
22:14before then black people in America were
22:16told the only history you have is being
22:20enslaved and it wasn't until in the 40s
22:2350s and 60s we began to
22:26discover that we had a history
22:29that was beyond being see the same way
22:31you tell me I'm moving to goost you're
22:32moving to goost right now I am not
22:34talking about the history of the black
22:35man in America heard sir go to my topic
22:39you being you you you being impatient so
22:43the point that I'm trying to
22:45make is that because there were
22:47different types of
22:50slavery the struggle we continue to have
22:54here in America as black people is
22:56directly connected to Identity because
22:59over a significant period of time
23:04centuries our identity and understanding
23:07of who we are was completely removed now
23:09when you talk about slavery and all of
23:12these other
23:13places the Japanese weren't removed from
23:16history of knowledge of self there's no
23:19group of people that you named today
23:22that were
23:23enslaved that were totally removed from
23:28knowledge of their self their history
23:29and their culture their languages and
23:31everything that represented their their
23:33their life Foundation that happened here
23:36in America so we have a
23:39situation where we
23:41have a different type of enslavement I
23:44mean even to the point
23:46where private parts were being cut off
23:49and limbs were being cut off the people
23:51who were bought from fin the people who
23:53were bought from Finland like the B gang
23:55no your history is too long let me let
23:57me explain something you make a false
23:59claim right
24:01now let me clear my claim sir let me
24:03just clear you claing let me clear my
24:05claim let me make CLA that I'm clearing
24:08that I would like to clear the claim
24:10that I would like to clear is I'm
24:13saying what I'm saying physically I'm
24:16not making a claim that that didn't
24:17happen anywhere else the claim that I am
24:21making is mentally being totally removed
24:25from knowledge that's what I want to
24:26clarify you I want to clarify that
24:28happened to other people when the Finish
24:30were bought by the barbery gang and
24:31taken to Portugal and they remain their
24:33fifth generation they are speaking
24:34Portuguese they eat Portuguese food they
24:36don't remember Finnish language they
24:38don't remember Finnish culture but you
24:39see when you go to Portugal you won't
24:41know because after the slavery the skin
24:43color made them to the only reason you
24:45struggl in America is because the skin
24:47color from the slave owner is different
24:49so every day it's reminding you the
24:51Finish we're taking to Portugal Portugal
24:52alone took more slave the king who
24:55founded every slave every explo how
24:57about the of Spain M okay people who
25:00were taken from same skin English people
25:03to Spain five generations let me tell
25:06you go to Kenya Kenya now they they joke
25:08English say which is true the 43rd tribe
25:11of Kenya today is Indians who were
25:14brought to Kenya by the British as
25:16slaves they speak only Swahili they
25:19don't even speak any language they lost
25:22their Indian language yes they hang on
25:24to some few things so it's not true at
25:27all that African-Americans are the only
25:28ones who arrived here and lost
25:29everything the Jews went into slavery
25:324,000 years less than what you have gone
25:34through how come they were able to hold
25:36on to everything they have to their
25:38language there was not a direct intent
25:40to remove them no no no you're getting
25:42it wrong let me explain something to you
25:44why your language went away let hear it
25:46from me hear it from me I'm telling you
25:49because Jews happen to be homogeneous
25:51people so when they took them as slaves
25:53and they were together they were still
25:55speaking the people they brought to this
25:56country America where never from One
25:59Tribe only hear it hear it you don't
26:01understand why the language vanished I
26:03understand no you don't you said the
26:05white men systematically took a language
26:06away from somebody that never happens no
26:09it didn't let me explain how the
26:10language vanished why do you think Creo
26:13was formed and P was formed because they
26:16brought too many different African
26:18ethnic groups who cannot speak with each
26:20other because you get the slaves chased
26:23from one place to the other so when you
26:24are put in the same port except one they
26:28were able to buy the last violation of
26:31the slave abolishment to buy from the
26:33Mandate tribe of silon and because they
26:35bought from One Tribe while in the ship
26:37they were able to speak each other and
26:38they fermented a revolt against the
26:40captain that's it MH so now this
26:43systematic they took our language away
26:44systematic they took this the Jews went
26:46through more crucial and brutal regimes
26:50but because you take only Jews they can
26:53still speak that's it my my point again
26:57slavery was never based on your skin
26:59color it was an economic exercise that
27:02anyone who can catch anybody who is
27:03cheaper to buy or easy to catch you
27:05catch the person and the quotes you read
27:07everywhere slaves were were held even in
27:10my tribe where we couldn't read or write
27:12we made these quote for slaves you can't
27:13marry the indigenous person you can't
27:15come out after 5:00 you can't speak in
27:17front of the king you cannot go across
27:19tribal lines on and on and on and on I
27:22will leave it for you to finish because
27:24we are about to wrap out in eat our time
27:28I respect your
27:31perspective in
27:35America
27:37especially with the black codes in place
27:42the
27:43enslavement of African people was
27:46definitely based on race and I'm not
27:50saying
27:51anybody has to
27:54accept my thoughts on that as
27:56reality I I'm here to say that you can't
28:01have black
28:02codes and then say slavery wasn't based
28:05on race those two things can't exist in
28:07the same room I don't know how you can
28:08have rules for prisoners and say that
28:10they can be human beings human beings
28:11are put in prison but the first thing
28:12you are told is all the codes that's all
28:15once your freedom is gone you leave by
28:17codes what I would suggest yeah and this
28:20is not out
28:21of arrogance no no no please you you're
28:24you're coming off the cuff right now
28:27because you haven't read about Black
28:28Codes or study Black Codes well you read
28:30it to me I heard it no no no no no I'm
28:32not talking about these notes that if
28:34you are a slave codes will be made for
28:35you I don't care which color you are so
28:37let's wrap it up right now if you're a
28:39slave codes are made for you otherwise
28:40how are you a slave anyway Mr mgra it's
28:44been a really a great conversation and
28:47um I really admire your knowledge about
28:50uh this topic you did challenge me thank
28:53you very much bro
28:57[Music]

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