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Yusef Salaam of the Central Park Five Talks With Michael Shure On The Young Turks — Transcript

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0:00Welcome to TYT interviews. I'm Michael
0:02Shore here. My guest today, actually a
0:04fascinating guest and of all days to be
0:06speaking with Ysef Salam. Um we're
0:08recording this whenever you are watching
0:10this. We're recording it on Martin
0:12Luther King Day. Uh and I it's uh it's
0:15appropriate for so many reasons. Ysef
0:17Salam from the time he was 15, his life
0:20changed because he was labeled at that
0:22time. And I know because I was in New
0:24York City. It's where I grew up. It's my
0:26home base. Um and and I you know I
0:30remember the story. He was one of the
0:31what came to be known as the Central
0:33Park Five. Went to jail for a crime he
0:36did not commit. Uh and and the the
0:39aftershocks of that crime changed New
0:42York changed the way New Yorkers saw uh
0:45criminal justice, the way they talked
0:47about enforcement and certainly race
0:49relations. And as we jump to 2016, uh,
0:52and we see that, uh, Donald Trump won
0:55the presidency and we are just a few
0:57days away, less than 100 hours from now,
1:00Donald Trump will be the president of
1:01the United States. It's ironic because
1:03of Trump's presence in that case in New
1:06York. Uh, it was, for those who do not
1:09remember, were not alive and and are are
1:11watching this, uh, there was a night of
1:13what at the time was called wilding. It
1:16was actually a misnomer. It was taken
1:18from a a one of the uh the people that
1:20were picked up for a minor crime in New
1:23York that night. Uh talking to the
1:25police saying we were doing the wild
1:27thing. The police, one police officer
1:29reportedly uh heard wilding and that's
1:32what became to be came to be known in
1:34New York as a way of committing a crime.
1:37Get a group of people together, mug
1:39someone, take something but do it in
1:41sort of a in a gang way uh in that
1:43moment. So, uh, and and that case that
1:46that saw a jogger, Trisha Mey, who was a
1:50woman who was jogging in Central Park
1:52that day, uh, she then was, uh, in a
1:54coma, is now, of course, better, but
1:57people thought that she was going to
1:58die. She was actually even given her
2:00last rights. Well, uh, there were five
2:02confessions coerced out of people that
2:04were picked up in Central Park that
2:06night. Uh, confessions that said that
2:08yes, we did it. And it wasn't until
2:10years later with DNA evidence that that
2:12was uh disproven. One of those uh who
2:15were in Central Park that night who had
2:17a confession coerced as a 15year-old uh
2:20whose parents weren't even there in the
2:22room with them initially uh which is,
2:25you know, part of the law in New York
2:26City. If you're under 16, you were to
2:28have a parent there with you as you were
2:30being questioned. That didn't happen.
2:32Ysef Salam now is taking that experience
2:35uh taking his opposition to Donald Trump
2:37and the positions that Trump took not
2:40only then in the early 90s late 80s but
2:43in his election campaign this year
2:45reiterated he's using that as a way to
2:47oppose the presidency and the policies
2:49of the incoming Trump administration. My
2:52pleasure to be talking here on TYT
2:55interviews with Ysef Salam. Ysef, thanks
2:57for uh for coming on TYT today. Well,
2:59it's a pleasure for me to be here as
3:00well and thanks for having me. Yeah, you
3:02know, there's a there's a lot uh there's
3:04a there are many ways to sum up your
3:06experiences in life. One thing I want to
3:08focus on before we talk about what
3:09you're doing today and of course that
3:11night and and everything that happened
3:13then, uh you said in an op-ed last year
3:16uh when you were opposing, it was in
3:18late October, mid-occtober, you were
3:20opposing the presidency, the candidacy
3:21of Donald Trump. Uh you said that from
3:23the time you were 15, your life wasn't
3:26yours anymore. I want to ask you what
3:28that means and and do you have your life
3:29back? I don't think that um I will ever
3:33100% have my life back. I mean, the idea
3:36of having a normal life, the idea of
3:38what um I see my friends and and and
3:41family, the type of life that they're
3:43living and the type of life that other
3:44people who other people live um who've
3:47not gone through an experience such so
3:49traumatic as the experience that I went
3:51through. Um you know even people who've
3:53gone to prison um older in when they
3:58were older in their lives um their
4:00experience is a lot different as well
4:02you know um that kind of foundation that
4:04they would have had um growing up
4:06experiencing things from you know the
4:09ages the really the prime ages the ages
4:11where people form and develop into who
4:14they will become you know that was
4:16snuffed out from all of the guys who
4:18became known as the central part you
4:20reference all the eyes. Are you in
4:22contact with with them? Do you still
4:23maintain a relationship with uh the
4:25other four uh that were implicated as
4:28you were? Oh, yes. We're all we're all
4:30friends. Um we all get together from
4:32time to time and um not necessarily
4:35reminisce about the past, but think
4:37about things in the context of where we
4:39are now. and also um you know sharing
4:42our struggles with the rest of the
4:44world, lending our our experiences as a
4:48means to um express how things should
4:52not continue in the same way. For
4:53instance, you know, they said never
4:55again with the with the Scottsboro boys
4:57and yet we became the modern day
4:58Scottsboro boys. Um you think about uh
5:02Donald Trump and the ad that he took out
5:03in 1989, talking about two weeks after
5:06this so-called crime happened. You know,
5:08Donald Trump took the ads out calling
5:10for the reinstatement of the death
5:11penalty specifically for the Central
5:12Park Five. And had that ad had its way,
5:19you know, our phone numbers, names, and
5:21addresses were published in New York
5:22City's newspapers. Had that ad had its
5:25way, someone from the darker enclaves of
5:27society would have made us modern day
5:29Evatills. You know, people began to
5:31write about things like that in the
5:33papers and saying things like, you know,
5:34we should take the eldest one and hang
5:36him from a tree in Central Park and take
5:38the others and horse with them. And so
5:40the whole um indication of where we were
5:44and where we are and and then you think
5:46about just yesterday, you know, 1950s,
5:481940s, 30s, and 1960s even, you know,
5:52how times really haven't changed. The
5:53only thing that has changed is that now
5:56we have cell phones, now we have social
5:57media, now we have a means to broadcast
6:00things like this on a much larger scale.
6:03Um, letting people know what's going on.
6:07Yeah. You people in this stuff is always
6:10going on, you know. Great that you
6:12remind people of of the effects of cell
6:14phones. You know, we we we spent a lot
6:17of time and we'll get to it a little bit
6:18in a little bit. John Lewis and Donald
6:21Trump sort of getting into it a little
6:22this this week. But but you know, one
6:25thing that that made the Selma march all
6:28that more effective, that made the
6:29Birmingham riots all that much more
6:32effective was photography. People taking
6:34pictures, they were going all over the
6:36world and the outrage kind of resonated.
6:39Now that we have these cell phones, and
6:40they are everywhere. I mean, I I think
6:42they're in too many places because
6:43there's always a video that distracts me
6:45from what it is that I'm doing that day.
6:47But um but but to the greater good,
6:50people are able to see these things now
6:52in ways that they weren't ever able to
6:54before. And that in itself, that is the
6:56progress of technology, I think, and and
6:58that that's what makes things better.
6:59But, you know, there weren't cameras on
7:01you guys that night and and people
7:03didn't know the full story. You talk
7:04about the Scottsboro boys, and just for
7:06our audience, the the context of that,
7:08Scottsboro, Alabama, it was a group of
7:11uh boys uh that were uh indicted for
7:14raping two white women in the 30s. It
7:16was a long trial and and it was a story
7:19of of you know of of mistaken both
7:22mistaken identity and looking for victim
7:25looking for um culprits looking for
7:27perpetrators when the perpetrators were
7:29not there. It was uh similar like you
7:31said to what what happened to you and
7:34and the four others Yousef and then EMTT
7:36Till of course a famous case in
7:38Mississippi that really was I think the
7:40the sort of flash point of the civil
7:42rights case a young boy who was uh seen
7:45whistling at a white shopkeeper whatever
7:47the story is. Uh, nobody really knew for
7:49sure what exactly happened, but they do
7:51know that how how he died was that that
7:54the the wife and brother-in-law of of
7:56that shopkeeper went out and got him
7:58that night and he was found at the
8:00bottom of a river a few days later. And
8:03and so uh those cases uh are cases that
8:06are as you know as well known to people
8:09who study the civil rights movement, but
8:11when they moved on into the 80s, they
8:12had your case. They had this case of of
8:15five kids in the park that night. tell
8:17us what your night was like before you
8:20were taken in that night. I think people
8:22want to know about that. Well, I mean,
8:24my night was just like I think any other
8:26night, any any kind of night that a
8:28young person would live. Um, you know,
8:30hanging out with um sometimes some of
8:33the older folks in your community. Um,
8:36you know, basically just enjoying the
8:38night. I think the next day was a
8:40holiday for most folks. Unfortunately
8:42for me, I didn't have a holiday that
8:43day, but for most folks, it was a
8:44holiday. So people were thinking about,
8:47you know, the the the fact that they
8:49could stay out later. Um, you know, back
8:52then it was a rule of thumb that, you
8:54know, especially when we didn't have
8:56cell phones and things like that, you
8:57know, most people knew who were younger,
8:58who were in my age group, you know, once
9:00the lights came on outside, uh, that was
9:03your indication to come home. That was
9:05your indication to get upstairs to eat
9:07dinner, to wash up, to get ready for
9:08tomorrow. Um and so for the fact that it
9:11was not a normal day um that people did
9:15not have the next day to go to school,
9:17people were planning on hanging out a
9:19little bit longer and things like that.
9:21And you know, one of the things that the
9:22Central Park 5 uh back then it was the
9:24Central Park 7, you know, but one of the
9:27things that the Central Park 5 always
9:29maintained was that we were in the park.
9:32We had absolutely nothing to do with any
9:33of the assaults that happened in the
9:35park. As a matter of fact, there were
9:36individuals who were arrested and
9:38convicted for crimes that they had
9:40committed in the park. They never became
9:42known as the Central Park Five, you
9:44know, and the whole idea I think one of
9:46the just to back up a bit in terms of
9:48the the the telling of the story, um,
9:52one of the things that Donald Trump has
9:54always maintained is that we led to our
9:57own convictions. And while that may be
10:01true for most of us, I was the only one
10:04that actually never made a written or
10:06videotape confession. And so when we
10:09look at the facts in the case and how
10:10these false confessions were found to be
10:13false, you know, the best film I think
10:15that was made about this case was the
10:17Central Park 5 um by by Ken Burns and
10:20also the book that accompanied it um
10:23called the Central Park 5, a chronicle
10:25of a city wounding. It really shows that
10:28there was a willful um overstepping of
10:31the law. There was a willful uh means to
10:35railroad us and
10:38there was no apology throughout that
10:40whole process. And people like Donald
10:42Trump got caught up in that particular
10:45uh melee, so to speak, and became a part
10:48of the mob justice that the city was
10:51seeking at that particular point in
10:53time. using his money. Uh I think he
10:55paid something like a total of 84,000 or
10:58$85,000
11:00to pay for ad speeds in New York City's
11:02newspapers. That number is very very
11:04significant because there's many people
11:06who don't make $85,000 in a year for
11:10this person. We're talking about um
11:14something that wasn't even crumbs off of
11:16his table. Something that was really
11:18dust off of his table that he used to
11:22pay for something that really could have
11:25led to our death, you know, and I'm very
11:29much aware of this because, you know,
11:32fast forward into 2002, late 2002, early
11:352003, the truth came out. But when you
11:39look at the coverage that happened
11:41around the truth in this case, it was
11:44minuscule compared to the coverage that
11:46happened in 1989. We're talking about a
11:49tsunami of articles that were written
11:50within the first few weeks. Like over
11:52400 articles was written within the
11:54first few weeks. These articles, no one
11:57no one came to us and said, "Uh, hey,
11:59can we interview you? Well, we want to
12:01we want to tell your story." You know,
12:03the worst thing that happens in American
12:06justice is that if you are accused of a
12:09crime and you happen to be a person of
12:11color, you are automatically seen as
12:14guilty and you have to prove yourself
12:16innocent. And most people in that
12:18particular space don't have the
12:20wherewithal to prove themselves
12:22innocent. So you find that you look at
12:24the prison complex, the prison
12:25industrial complex, and you find that
12:27you see multiple people in jail for
12:30crimes that they didn't commit or
12:31multiple people in jail for crimes that
12:32they may have committed, but then you
12:35had the other added piece where people
12:38had crimes added to them that they
12:41didn't commit, you know. Yeah. And
12:43listen,
12:45go ahead. A lot of people didn't want to
12:47fight. They said, "You know what? If I'm
12:49facing, say for instance, like in the
12:50Central Park jogger case, uh there was
12:52this this idea that because we were
12:55juveniles, but we were being tried and
12:58they wanted to convict us as adults. We
13:00were looking at 6 and 23 to 20 years for
13:05the crimes that were committed. And of
13:07course, they didn't give us that time. I
13:09mean, the most time that that was uh
13:11given out was with Corey Wise. He gave
13:13they gave him five to 15 and he spent um
13:16almost 13 years in prison, you know, but
13:19when the truth came out, it was a
13:21whisper. My mother my mother said it
13:23best when she said that it was a whisper
13:24that she wondered if the rats of New
13:27York City had even heard because there's
13:29still this cloud of of confusion.
13:31there's still this cloud of well maybe
13:34they maybe there was something that
13:36happened and I mean you know the police
13:38officers just don't go after people for
13:40crimes that they don't commit but when
13:43you look at the Central Park jogger case
13:44and then you fast forward to today and
13:48today by today I mean you fast forward
13:51to the to the U campaigning for the
13:53presidency and you fast forward to
13:55statements that were being made uh on
13:57both sides you know Donald Trump in one
13:59of the um in one of the debates
14:02making a remark that um Hillary Clinton
14:05had called us a very very negative word
14:09back in 1989 1990 and then he says but
14:12you've apologized for that and you know
14:16the the idea was that
14:18at the next debates it was like hold on
14:22Donald you took out a full page ad in
14:25New York City's major newspapers calling
14:28for the death of these young men and it
14:31found that these young men didn't do it.
14:33Donald Trump has his he has he had and
14:37has even now the wherewithal to know
14:42without a shadow of a doubt whether we
14:44did this crime or didn't do this crime.
14:46But he chooses to still stand on the
14:48side of injustice. he still chooses to
14:52stand on the side that, you know, he
14:54took out some more ads or he he made
14:56some more statements like this was the
14:59uh crime, this was the heist of the
15:00century that we were going to now be
15:03rich rapists, you know, and it's
15:05unfortunate because he now is on the
15:08cusp of becoming the president of the
15:12United States of America. Yeah. and all
15:15of the things that he has presented all
15:18of the ideas and I don't want to exclude
15:21the fact that you know the he he
15:24represents this kind of luxury this this
15:28thing that everyone who has had who has
15:31never had the ability to live a life of
15:35of of ease and fortune um he represents
15:40that and so for a lot of black folks
15:42they they looked at Donald Trump in the
15:4480s and um they wanted to be like Donald
15:48Trump. They they they read books about
15:51how he did it, right? But people
15:54overlooked the fact that his dad gave
15:55him a small loan of I think it was $14
15:59million. Yeah. I tried to actually ask
16:02him at one of the debates how much that
16:03loan was. You I tried to get him to tell
16:06me exactly how much it was and he wasn't
16:08having he all he said was not as much as
16:11people say and then he walked away from
16:12me. But I you know I want to take it to
16:15present day. There are a couple of
16:16things I do want to discuss about your
16:18experience too. I mean New York at that
16:20time Mayor Ed Cotch was uh was in office
16:23and there was you know coming out of
16:251977. Um there were when when he took
16:29took office there was some racial strife
16:30in the city. It it never really goes
16:32away entirely. Uh David Dinkens then
16:35became mayor, the first black mayor of
16:38New York City. Racial strife didn't go
16:39away then. It doesn't go away. But but
16:42Ed Cotch even uh came out and he's a was
16:45a complicated mayor. He was the
16:47personality of New York, but he was, you
16:49know, wrong on a lot of things having to
16:52do with race at different times. Even he
16:54said, "It's time to heal. It's time to
16:56put aside the ranker in our city." And
16:59Trump in defiance of the mayor at that
17:01time came out and said those things.
17:02Isn't that right? It is. It is. And you
17:06know that that that goes to show um
17:10how wrong you could be. I think that the
17:15Central Park Jagger case, the most
17:16interesting thing about the Central Park
17:18Jagger case is that it is the it is a
17:21worm in the can of worms, you know, that
17:25became known as atrocities and some of
17:27some sometimes did not become known as
17:29atrocities. But I mention that because
17:32um the idea is that the Cedra Pak Jaga
17:34case became famous, became one of the
17:36most famous cases in New York City and
17:39maybe the country, right? Um people
17:43built their careers off of our backs.
17:46People advanced, people retired with
17:50full pensions. People went on to retire
17:53and become famous authors, you know,
17:56like Linda Ferstein who writes about sex
17:58crimes, you know, people went on to
18:01become adjunct professors or professors
18:03of sorts at at prestigious universities
18:05like Elizabeth Letter. You know, um
18:09police officers that went on to uh
18:12retire in places like Florida that
18:14became hired muscle for the mob. You
18:16know, all of these things came out and
18:19more when you look at the um the
18:21depositions in the Central Park jogger
18:23case back in back in um back a few years
18:26ago. Uh Linda Fston would say there's a
18:29lot of things that people don't know
18:30about this case. Mayor um Mike Bloomberg
18:33would say that this was a no pay case.
18:35And then you fast forward to the
18:38depositions
18:40which will be released shortly to the
18:41public so that they can see how this was
18:43such a travesty. You know,
18:47cases like that, though. The the public
18:49uh the public doesn't usually see those
18:51things. Linda Ferstein, prosecutor who
18:53now writes a lot about crime. Um she um
18:58a letter I believe teaches at at
18:59Columbia University. Um now, as well, if
19:02I'm not mistaken, uh you a couple of
19:06things that that you talked about um
19:09when you were just recounting the case,
19:11and I I want to, you know, I want to
19:13talk about what you're doing today. I
19:14want to talk about Donald Trump, but I I
19:16do want to know for people who've never
19:18been in an interrogation room, for the
19:21lay person who's sitting at home who has
19:23no beef with anybody, but hears, "Oh,
19:25five kids confessed to doing this
19:27crime." Um,
19:30how does that happen?
19:33Well, you you you have to remember that.
19:35Um, and I want to take it to something
19:38that a lot of folks can can maybe maybe
19:40understand. We watch television and we
19:44watch shows like CSI, uh, New York,
19:47Miami, LA, NCIS, um,
19:50you know, um, Law and Order and Law and
19:52Order and Law and Order and Law and
19:54Order, you know, blue bloods. I mean,
19:56just, you know, it it it paints the most
20:00perfect picture of the criminal justice
20:02system. And I want the system to be
20:05that. I don't think that we should live
20:07in a in a space where there is no system
20:11put in place that will um that will
20:13speak to the injustices or speak to the
20:15the things that we need um and handle
20:18it, you know. Um
20:22but then you then you look at techniques
20:25that were used, you know, there's a
20:27there's an institution called the Reed
20:30Institute. And the Reed Institute is one
20:33of the main
20:35organizations
20:36that trains people in the process of
20:39interrogations.
20:42I was told that their information comes
20:43with a disclaimer that says, "Caution,
20:47be careful who you use these techniques
20:49on because they will cause people who
20:52are innocent to plead guilty to crimes
20:56that they didn't commit." And so what do
20:57they do? There's a movie that came out
21:00um with Denzel Washington called um oh
21:05man what was the name of this movie? He
21:06was a terrorist in this movie and and
21:08really the significant part of the movie
21:10is this that 15 minutes into the movie.
21:14He gets caught and they put him they
21:17they strap him to a chair. the people
21:19who are about to interrogate him. They
21:20strap him to a chair and tell him to
21:23give us the information or it's going to
21:25become very very difficult and painful
21:28for you in a few seconds. And of course,
21:30he looks at them and says, "Yeah,
21:32whatever." You know, um they begin to
21:35waterboard him. And before they
21:38waterboarded him, they took out the the
21:40tools that they were going to use, this
21:42this rag and and water and stuff like
21:44that. And uh he looks at the tools and
21:47says, "Well, you need that that looks
21:49like about, you know, x amount of count.
21:51You need xxx amount of count." And I'm
21:53like, "What is he talking about?" You
21:54know, and of course I know more about
21:56what he's talking about now, but he was
21:59trying to say that if the conditions are
22:01correct, I am going to break and give
22:03you the information that you are
22:04requesting as well. But the conditions
22:06are not correct. And so I am not going
22:09to break. You are not going to get me to
22:11give you what you are asking for. As a
22:13matter of fact, I am going to keep it
22:15inside. And so they begin to waterboard
22:17him and true to form, he spits the water
22:20out after they bring him back up and he
22:22asks the person, "How long was that?"
22:25Now, in the Central Park Jagger case,
22:26you have very, very similar methods.
22:29Things where they were beating up Corey
22:31Wise in the next room. Things where they
22:33would come into the And I'm only talking
22:35about myself and Corey because we would
22:38we both got picked up at the same time.
22:41Um, which precinct were you in that
22:43Central Park precinct? Were you in the
22:44middle of the park that night? I don't
22:47No, I don't think they took us to the
22:48Central Park precinct. We may have
22:50started there, but that's not where
22:51where we ended up, right? Um, and then
22:54Manhattan Homicide North came in and
22:58interrogated us. And
23:01we're talking about beating up Corey
23:03Wise. We're talking about them coming
23:05into the room that I'm in and winking at
23:08me and saying that I was next. You know,
23:11um they, you know, getting in your
23:13personal space is something that New
23:15Yorkers, they they really don't like.
23:17You know, a lot of people from other
23:18parts of the world, it's it's nothing if
23:20you're in somebody's personal space. But
23:22that's why we're doing this by Skype
23:24because we just you and I, we just
23:25didn't want to get in each other's
23:26faces.
23:28Yeah. But you know that that whole
23:30notion they got in your personal space.
23:32They created an environment um where you
23:37were offbalance. They refused to feed
23:40you. They refuse to give you anything to
23:42drink. And I'm not talking about for an
23:45hour. I'm not talking about for eight
23:47hours. I'm talking about this process
23:50was in some of our cases over 24 hours.
23:56It's amazing. When you look at the when
23:58you look at the the video footage,
23:59especially of Cory Wise, you look at the
24:01video footage and in the Central Park 5
24:04film, Corey is talking about what
24:07happened back in 1989. And in 1989, if
24:10we get a chance to put our hands on that
24:12same video footage, you'll see Corey
24:15says that they told me that they were
24:17going to come in that I was going to go
24:19into this room. I was going to make
24:21these statements and they were going to
24:24be there to make sure I did it right.
24:26So, Corey begins to do his false
24:29confession.
24:31And as Corey does his false confession,
24:36um Corey is given a can of soda, Corey
24:40grabs the can and and and wants to open
24:43it as I mean, you could tell he hadn't
24:45had anything to drink in a long time.
24:48Yeah. And then after he finishes this
24:49false confession, he gets up and thanks
24:52Elizabeth Letterer.
24:55And a voice off camera says, "Sit back
24:58down." Really? And I mean, you look at
25:01all of this stuff, you put all of these
25:02little pieces together, people who
25:04analyze whether these uh these
25:07confessions were actually true. The fact
25:10that one person is saying it happened
25:12this way, another person is saying, "No,
25:13it happened this way." Someone is
25:14saying, "Oh, she had neon blinking
25:16shorts on. know she had black shorts on.
25:18I mean, just completely she had she got
25:20grabbed down the block. She got grabbed
25:22up the block. You know, this person
25:24wasn't there. I I didn't do anything.
25:27And then the other person saying he did
25:28everything. I mean, all of these things.
25:31Yeah. And the worst part is that we
25:34didn't know each other, right? That none
25:37of the five of you were I was just going
25:38to say that you were not friends with
25:40one another, right? This was the only
25:42the only person that I that I was
25:44friends with was Corey Wise. Yeah. And
25:46when I say was, I mean we're still
25:48friends. Uh we we the rest of the group,
25:52we met each other in prison.
25:55We were told statements like this.
25:57Somebody in the next room, another
26:00precinct saying that you did it. You
26:02look like a good guy. And and and it's
26:05and when we look at the TV shows that
26:07show this, the the picture that is
26:09painted is a picture where you have a
26:13very scared individual. You have a
26:16person who knows nothing about the law.
26:19I mean, in the Central Park jogger case
26:20with regards to me, they told me that
26:22they lifted my fingerprints off of uh
26:24her jogging shorts. And I said to myself
26:27and I said in the film, "How did they
26:29take my prints and put it on the jogging
26:32shorts?" Because I believe them. Right.
26:35Yeah. I mean that's that's and and so to
26:38get an idea of of how scared you were
26:40and and also I mean I think that what
26:43you just said about you knew Corey
26:44Weise, you met the others in prison.
26:46There was this idea in New York even
26:47going to the Bernie gets case on the
26:49subways that there were just these mobs
26:51of of young black men running around New
26:55York uh creating havoc, which was just
26:57not the case. and and and these things
27:00were were kind of put put uh put up by,
27:04you know, between the police and the
27:06media were eaten up and then they were
27:08sustained by Donald Trump. Um I What's
27:12that? So check this out. You you you you
27:14take it to today. Yeah. And I'm talking
27:16about that same thought process. You
27:18take it to today. The people in the
27:20background are very angry and very
27:23upset. And Donald Trump played to that.
27:26He told people, you know, if this was a
27:28different day in time, uh, people would
27:31be put taken out on stretchers. Beat
27:34that person up. I'll pay your bail
27:36money. He told people in one of his, um,
27:39uh, forums, uh, I could go out on Fifth
27:42Avenue right now and shoot someone and I
27:45won't lose any supporters. Yeah. And and
27:50all of that stuff that he talked about
27:52is happening now. This is one of the
27:54reasons why I'm one of the co-initiators
27:57of Refuse Fascism. And I tell people all
27:59the time, you got to go to the website
28:01refuse fascism, refusefascism.org
28:04to understand what's going on and to
28:06understand that we can't just wait and
28:09give a person like Donald Trump an
28:11opportunity when he's already shown us
28:13who he is. Yeah. Well, yousef, you just
28:17uh you just took my great segue into
28:20into into your work today and you just
28:22did it. Now I have nothing left to do.
28:24But uh refuse fascism. You just sort of
28:27painted the picture. You said take them
28:28out on stretchers. You could shoot I
28:29could shoot you in the middle of Fifth
28:30Avenue. Nothing would happen to me. Uh
28:33fascis fascism is a very very heavy
28:36word. Everybody knows it. Uh you know,
28:38one of the things you never do in
28:40politics is compare anything to Nazi
28:41Germany. And you have to very very
28:44carefully use that word for reasons that
28:46are implicit. Uh but you're right out
28:49there. Refusefascism.org.
28:51And this was in response. This did not
28:53exist before President-elect Donald
28:55Trump. Is that right? This is true.
28:57Yeah. So, so tell me what the tell me
29:00what the the aim of what you're doing. I
29:02mean, there there rallies today. There
29:05rallies uh leading right up to
29:07inauguration day. Uh Cornell West is
29:10involved in this. Michael A. Wood Jr.
29:12who's with uh the Young Turks is
29:14involved in this. Tell me what the
29:16purpose is and tell me about the name
29:19refuse fascism. So, we need to um
29:24we need to let people know that we the
29:27people, we the people, we say no,
29:32we don't want a person like Donald Trump
29:34in office. Because back in um you know
29:37when I became hip to politics, I began
29:40to understand that the president's seat
29:44was just a position that could be filled
29:47and someone could be put into it and
29:48someone could be taken out of it. When
29:51we look at what Donald Trump has been
29:52doing and is doing, he's placing
29:55everyone in other positions to make sure
29:59that whatever he says he has his yes men
30:02and yes women there to cosign and agree
30:05and bring about whatever it is that he
30:08plans to do to us. And by us, I have
30:12very, very, very close relations to what
30:16that means. Because for me, I could have
30:18very well lost my life. To me, when you
30:21had a person that was as powerful and is
30:24more is powerful as Donald Trump, you're
30:27talking about a situation that can get
30:30out of control very, very quickly. We
30:34the people will be the ones in the
30:35middle and we the people will be the
30:37ones that will be hurt the most. Your
30:39life changed through a settlement, I'm
30:41guessing, right? I mean, the the the
30:43settlement. So, explain that just a
30:45little bit. The the settlement happened
30:47and it was a really interesting thing
30:50because um for the most part, we had
30:52already resigned that our life was going
30:54to be what we had been given. And and
30:56and by that I mean that we were never
30:59going to be able to shake off this um
31:02indelible scar. We weren't going to be
31:04able to get it surgically repaired or
31:06removed. Um every person that we would
31:08meet we would have to uh defend
31:11ourselves against in terms of uh you
31:13know the questions that would be asked
31:14um because the nature of how the story
31:17was presented to the world you know this
31:19cloud that remained and even when we
31:21were found and we were exonerated from
31:24this there was this whole notion that
31:27well they weren't found innocent they
31:29didn't go to trial and were found
31:31innocent. the
31:34person who runs the DA's office
31:38says, "We're not we refuse to to to to
31:42follow any more actions."
31:46You know, we we we should have never
31:48gone after these young people in the
31:50first place, right? You know, you look
31:52at the report that the police department
31:54came out and essentially that report was
31:57saying um that the police department
31:59investigated itself and found out that
32:01they didn't do anything wrong.
32:04That should be u a surprise, right?
32:07Yeah. But the DA's office reinvestigated
32:09this thing and they came out with the
32:11Nancy Ryan report. And the Nancy Ryan
32:13report is something that people can
32:15investigate, look up online and and look
32:17and see why did the DA's office take
32:20this very interesting and different kind
32:23of action with regards to the Central
32:24Park 5. Why was it that they said we
32:28have to um let this case go? We we we we
32:31should have never gone after these guys.
32:33These guys didn't do it. And the fact of
32:36the matter is that there was an
32:37individual who did it who can never be
32:39convicted of this crime. Yeah. You know,
32:42statute of limitation for rape in New
32:44York City, well, not New York City.
32:46Well, maybe it is New York City. I think
32:48it's New York State. Okay. Statute of
32:50limitation is seven years. That's That's
32:52unfortunate. Yeah. Because it's one of
32:55the worst crimes in the world. The only
32:58crime that trumps rape is child
33:00molestation.
33:02And inmates have their own way of
33:04dealing with those two kinds of
33:05atrocities, right? you know, so for us
33:07to have gone through that, you know, but
33:10fast forward, we win the we win the
33:13settlement. Uh we filed for our lawsuit
33:16in 2002.
33:18We won the settlement in 2014.
33:24People who had been named in our
33:25settlement have passed away.
33:28I mean, this is this is very very very
33:31messed up and very unfortunate kind of
33:33story. But we won the settlement and
33:36Just to give some context here, that's
33:3825 years after that night in Central
33:41Park. Yes, indeed. So that's 25 years of
33:44prison. That's 25 years of people being
33:46born and dying. That's 25 years of of
33:49uncertainty of of having the world think
33:52something about Ysef Salam and and the
33:55four others. So absolutely. So I, you
33:58know, got win the lawsuit and I'm able
34:00to uh quit my job and I had already been
34:04doing motivational speaking for for some
34:06years now. Um, but I was able to quit my
34:08job and dive head on into the
34:12transformational and motivational
34:14speaking space and lend myself and my
34:17energy to seeing if we could bring about
34:20an America and a type of justice system
34:22that we all can benefit from. You know,
34:25when I when we all talked about the the
34:27police departments, we weren't talking
34:29about that we did that we hated police.
34:31We were saying that we hate bad cops. No
34:35one likes bad cops. And the worst part
34:37about it is that even though you have
34:39like cameras on officers now, you have
34:41some situations where we've seen on
34:43social media people shut the cameras
34:45off, right? The worst part is that for
34:47the officers who try to do um a a great
34:51job and try to give people the real kind
34:53of policing that people want and need.
34:55And by that I mean like you know it used
34:57to be that the that the officer would
34:59walk around the community and they would
35:00know people in the community. And by
35:02them knowing them it gave them an
35:04opportunity to say hey uh hey Johnny
35:06come on don't do that. Yeah. You know
35:09you don't want your life to go this way
35:12as opposed to that way. So change your
35:14life around. And the officer could have
35:15the officer could have seen Johnny doing
35:18a crime, you know, right? And because of
35:22the goodness in his heart and knowing
35:24that Johnny was just a child,
35:26he's going to give Johnny pass. Yeah. He
35:28cared more about John. Those cops cared
35:30more about Johnny than they cared about
35:33the law as it was written necessarily.
35:35Yes. and and that that is certainly
35:37missed in policing and that you are
35:39doing u this work in you know in light
35:43of and in spite of all that you have
35:45been through um with this case is is is
35:48very inspiring. You know I I um I grew
35:50up on the other end of Central Park sort
35:52of choking on a silver spoon. Um but but
35:55I I um I all you know so our experiences
35:58around that you know 640 acres or 840
36:01acres of of park were very different but
36:04we both saw it and I think so many New
36:07Yorkers just even look in 2016 Donald
36:09Trump uh didn't he got 18% of the vote
36:12in New York City. So, New York City has
36:15been trying to repudiate this guy for
36:17such a long time and the ugliness that
36:20he brought to your case and is bringing
36:23now to justice. I I ask you, Jeff
36:25Sessions, attorney general, um that's
36:28who Donald Trump has nominated with the
36:30work that you just explained that you're
36:31doing right now. How do you respond to
36:34that? Is it is it an can you find some
36:36good in it? Can you say, listen, if we
36:38have somebody as extreme as Jeff
36:40Sessions may be as attorney general,
36:42maybe it makes our voices louder. Or is
36:44it just another obstacle that we in this
36:47country don't need at all? We we have we
36:50have been presented with
36:53a multitude of obstacles that we don't
36:56need. And these obstacles are
37:00indicative and and representative of um
37:04dominoes.
37:06And once those dominoes fall, they will
37:08fall on us. You know, um when I think
37:12about, you know, Dr. Martin Luther King
37:15Jr., when I think about um
37:19the freedom fighter that he was, and
37:23then I couple him with other freedom
37:25fighters, Malcolm X, um for one, um
37:30countless countless countless others. I
37:32mean, you know, I was I was reading the
37:35other day about Dr. Maya Angelo and she
37:38was talking about how, you know,
37:40sometimes you can be angry at things and
37:42and and when you when you become angry
37:44and outraged, that's not really the
37:46answer because it hurts you, you know.
37:50And the direct quote that she said was
37:52that we should be angry, but we must not
37:54be bitter. She says, "Bitterness is like
37:57cancer. It eats upon the host and it
37:59doesn't do anything to the object of its
38:01displeasure. So use that anger. You
38:05write it, you paint it, you dance it,
38:09you march it, you vote it, you do
38:12everything about it, you talk it. Never
38:15stop talking. And you had to Yousef, I'm
38:19going to interrupt there because it's so
38:20beautiful what what Angelo said. Uh but
38:23you had to have been bitter at some
38:25point and I was very angry. I was very
38:29bitter at some point. Um, but you know,
38:30I I'm I'm wearing uh one of the uh I'm
38:34wearing a shirt with my greatest hero, I
38:37would say. Um Nelson Mandela. Um he was
38:40known as Vanipa, you know. Um spent
38:44decades in prison,
38:47came out and was one of the most humble
38:51and beautiful representations of a human
38:53being that we could have ever imagined.
38:56becoming the president of South Africa.
38:59You know, I mean, he said something very
39:02similar as well that being angry is like
39:05drinking poison and expecting your enemy
39:07to die. But the reality is that if we
39:11transform the anger and we bend it to
39:15our will, then we can bring about the
39:18greater good and the greater change that
39:20we want. Yeah. We can become the change
39:22that we seek in the world. And so for my
39:25part, lending my energy to refuse
39:28fascism.org
39:30to become one of the uh initiators in
39:33this particular uh call saying that we
39:37don't want a racist,
39:40fascist,
39:42negative,
39:43and a whole host of uh words that
39:46probably have astr in it and all kind of
39:49stuff. you know, we need a country that
39:52is about
39:54positivity,
39:57that is about um protection, that is
40:00about justice for all. And what we see
40:03is that we don't have a country like
40:04that right now. And we just voted in a
40:07person who will further divide us as a
40:11country. Yeah. And we can't wait to see
40:14like we can't wait four years or wait a
40:16few months or wait a day to see whether
40:19what this person who has already shown
40:22us who he's about.
40:24We can't wait to see whether he's gonna
40:27come good or or or you know maybe he'll
40:29change or you know maybe because of the
40:32business type of person that he's in or
40:34that he is rather um he he'll step kind
40:37of into this presidency and you know
40:40maybe it'll marinate with him and he'll
40:43become the kind of president that we
40:44want. He's shown us who he is. He he's
40:48shown New Yorkers now he's showing the
40:50country. uh Julian Bond who uh was a
40:52freedom uh part of part part of the
40:54civil rights movement who who I know
40:56you're familiar with lost the world lost
40:58him in 2015. Uh he said uh good things
41:00don't come to those who wait they come
41:02to those who agitate. Uh and and it it
41:06sounds as if you are you're talking
41:07about waiting and waiting. We can't
41:08wait. We can't wait. We can't wait.
41:10Refusefascism.org
41:12is agitating. What is the what is the
41:15goal? What when when can the people at
41:18refusefascism.org or sit back and say,
41:21"We did it." What's What does that look
41:23like? We will be able to say we did it
41:26when we unseat him as as a person.
41:29Well, first is that we will be able to
41:31sit back and say we did it when we can
41:35refuse him to go into office in the
41:37first place, right? You know, I mean,
41:40it's it's it's very critical right now.
41:42This is one of the reasons why every day
41:44at 400 p.m. we are meeting to make sure
41:48that we have the people understanding
41:50what's going on. People are in the
41:52vicinity in the DC area at least, you
41:54know, two hours out. I mean, you can
41:57come into the DC area. Uh the place that
41:59we're meeting at is um McFerson Square.
42:02McFerson Square. You know, 4 p.m. we
42:04march to Donald Trump's uh the Donald,
42:07you know, the the uh what is it? Trump
42:11Hotel, one of his towers, right? I mean,
42:14he has the Trump Hotel, but when you
42:15think about, you know, a person who's
42:17put real estate options and places, you
42:20know, like a monopoly board, you know,
42:22um you know, we we want to be out there.
42:25We want to we want to agitate. Yeah. We
42:27want to agitate. Well, that's uh that's
42:30consistent with what we're talking
42:31about. Um listen, I I I think a lot of
42:35people sympathize with what you're doing
42:38and that effort. um being a u kind of a
42:41student of US history in in some ways,
42:43especially presidential history. Um I
42:46you know the the chances of having him
42:49not take office on Friday uh as the
42:52hours countdown are are smaller and
42:54smaller. But I want to know then he does
42:56take office. What does refusefascism.org
43:00do? We won't go away.
43:02You know, Central Park 5 never went
43:04away. Yeah. the Central 5 was able to
43:06take the lemons that we got in life and
43:09we made lemonade, right? You know, and
43:12that I think I don't I don't want to
43:14look at um what tomorrow is going to be
43:18like without addressing today. Yes, we
43:21plan for tomorrow, but in terms of
43:23today, we need to be in the streets. We
43:26need to make sure that our voices are
43:29heard and that we do everything in our
43:32power within the law to refuse this
43:36person to get into office.
43:40This is important and this is what we
43:42need to be doing. There are a lot of
43:44people who who I'm saying everything
43:46within our power within the law to make
43:50sure that this person doesn't come to
43:52power. Yeah. And uh it sound there I was
43:55you know I interrupted but there are a
43:57lot of people who empathize, sympathize
43:59and of course uh wish you well in in
44:02that endeavor. Um you know there there's
44:05so many things we can talk about. I you
44:07know one question I I wanted to ask out
44:09of order before I let you go and we end
44:11this interview is did you ever re uh did
44:13you ever meet Trisha Mey? Did you ever
44:15meet the victim of that crime? No. No.
44:17You know I never met her. We did see her
44:19unfortunately
44:21uh during the trial when she came and
44:23she testified um and it was a very very
44:25sad kind of situation, you know, of
44:27course. Um
44:30uh I I think that it would be a
44:32tremendous
44:34healing for
44:37all of us to meet. I mean, she was on
44:39the Oprah Winfrey show and people kind
44:41of dogged Oprah out about the question
44:44that she asked her in terms of why did
44:47she run so late at night, you know? Um,
44:50but I think the reality is that the
44:53ability for us to heal through this
44:56process. I mean, you got to remember
44:57that Trisha Mey was told for 13 years
45:01that the real perpetrator
45:04was caught, that we were the ones who
45:06did this and that we got locked up and
45:09justice was served. And then the truth
45:10comes out and she finds out that the
45:13real perpetrator was not caught and that
45:16the real perpetrator was because of the
45:18way that the police went after the
45:20Central Park 5, the real perpetrator was
45:23left to commit more crime. Yeah. And
45:26ultimately he killed one of the the last
45:29victim he he assaulted. He killed um I
45:32think she was uh one of the residents
45:34and the tenants in Amy Goodman's
45:36building, you know. Yeah. It's amazing.
45:38And he kills her. She's pregnant. Young
45:41pregnant Latina woman. Her children, she
45:44locked them away in the in the next room
45:46so that they could not be um a party to
45:49or or witness what was going on. And she
45:52lost her life. Yeah. in this asalent's
45:56last act,
45:58you know. Yeah. Had the had the system
46:00done what they should have done, she
46:02would have been alive today. We can't
46:04drop the ball as a people and let Donald
46:08Trump come into power and do what it is
46:11that he wants to do and he has promised
46:14to do. Yeah. On our backs.
46:17We've all been we've all been mistakenly
46:20um uh mis but we at at different times
46:22but certainly collectively uh we've
46:26mistaken Donald Trump uh and his ability
46:29to actually exceed what we think can
46:31possibly happen with him especially as
46:32New Yorkers who who really know the true
46:34side of Donald Trump and and the
46:37potential is there now and I think
46:39people should pay attention to that
46:41certainly and because of your work
46:42Yousef and the and the work of
46:44resistfascism.org or at least people are
46:46paying closer attention and they're
46:48going to hold his feet to the fire when
46:49it comes to um his behavior on issues of
46:52social justice and race and um and I
46:55don't think it's going to be as easy uh
46:57a sled ride for him as it will have been
47:00uh for other presidents coming into
47:01office. Yusf Salam. Uh again, you know,
47:04we could talk uh all day um because I'm
47:07so fascinated with your life and and u
47:09listen uh the great thing about New York
47:11and New Yorkers is their resilience and
47:13you are proof of that and uh the
47:15collective shame of that city is
47:17probably why they were so silent in 2014
47:19when there was a settlement uh because
47:21they were just so ashamed of what had
47:22happened before. I think it's human
47:24nature to be that way. uh thank you for
47:26your time and the time that uh that this
47:29uh country made you serve unfortunately
47:32but uh you're giving back in good ways
47:34and uh you know keep them coming to
47:35McFersonen Square and and and let's see
47:37what happens with this group that you're
47:39a part of now again thank you uh keep
47:41watching us on the Young Turks we're
47:43going to be telling your story and the
47:44story you want to be told I'm Michael
47:45Shore with TYT interviews

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This page contains the full transcript of Yusef Salaam of the Central Park Five Talks With Michael Shure On The Young Turks by TYT's The Conversation, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 8,615 words across 1,170 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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