Yusef Salaam of Central Park Five on being wrongfully jailed — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00hello and welcome to ways to change the
2. 0:01world i'm christian gary murphy and this
3. 0:03is the podcast
4. 0:04in which we talk to extraordinary people
5. 0:05about the big ideas in their lives
6. 0:07and the events that have helped shape
7. 0:09them i'm actually in the united states
8. 0:11at the moment covering the build-up to
9. 0:12the u.s elections so i'm joining you
10. 0:15from
11. 0:16a hotel room in wisconsin and my guest
12. 0:19is talking to me
13. 0:20over the internet from another state in
14. 0:23the united states a little bit south of
15. 0:25here
16. 0:25um yusuf salam spent nearly seven years
17. 0:28in jail for a crime he
18. 0:30didn't commit he was one of the central
19. 0:32park five
20. 0:33the young men who were convicted of
21. 0:35raping a young woman
22. 0:37in new york in 1989.
23. 0:41since his exoneration he has become
24. 0:44a motivational speaker a poet he's a
25. 0:47father of ten
26. 0:48and the story of what happened to him
27. 0:51and
28. 0:51those other young men has of course been
29. 0:54made famous
30. 0:55in a tv series on netflix yusuf thank
31. 0:58you very much for joining us
32. 0:59thank you for having me now we're
33. 1:01talking to you in part because you have
34. 1:04also written
35. 1:05or co-written a book of poetry and it's
36. 1:08aimed at young people
37. 1:10and it's about black lives and
38. 1:12incarceration
39. 1:14so why have you done this well i did
40. 1:16this in particular this book that we
41. 1:18call
42. 1:18you know we called it punching the air i
43. 1:21did this
44. 1:22with evie's a boy in particular because
45. 1:24i wanted
46. 1:25to really utilize my my platform
47. 1:28and and the privilege that i have now in
48. 1:30order to help others
49. 1:32who might not be in the same place that
50. 1:34i was in and
51. 1:35by that i mean young people in
52. 1:37particular young people are
53. 1:38the dream and the hope of our ancestors
54. 1:43and right now we see that hope in the
55. 1:46heart of our ancestors
56. 1:47erupting in the streets in america
57. 1:49calling out for black life
58. 1:51to matter because we realize that the
59. 1:53system
60. 1:54is not alive and and well the system is
61. 1:58alive and sick
62. 1:59the system has been operating exactly as
63. 2:02it's been designed and is not broken as
64. 2:05we thought before
65. 2:06there's been a lot of conversation that
66. 2:08we've been having as it relates to
67. 2:11the criminal justice system and we were
68. 2:13talking about reform
69. 2:15and what we realized is that the system
70. 2:17is
71. 2:18broken beyond repair and needs to be
72. 2:21taken down
73. 2:23and built anew now many people i suppose
74. 2:26in your situation would have wanted to
75. 2:31move on and forget the horrific
76. 2:32experience that they had been through
77. 2:35for so many years but you have
78. 2:38done quite the opposite and spent your
79. 2:41life
80. 2:41decades in fact trying to help other
81. 2:44people
82. 2:45can you explain that reaction well the
83. 2:47reaction to that
84. 2:48is quite simple you know i felt like
85. 2:52i found my purpose in life and it's
86. 2:55about finding the why
87. 2:56so that you can live anyhow here i was
88. 3:0015 years old some of us were as young as
89. 3:0214 the eldest of us was 16
90. 3:04and we were run over by the spike wheels
91. 3:06of justice and instead of
92. 3:08running for cover after we recovered
93. 3:12we began to stand up straight so that we
94. 3:15cannot
95. 3:16we can give others the opportunity to
96. 3:18understand that they
97. 3:19also needed to stand up straight we're
98. 3:21still here
99. 3:22and we're here because we matter and
100. 3:24we're here because there's something
101. 3:26special that we have to give the world
102. 3:28and so i think that as i realized my
103. 3:30purpose
104. 3:31it became quite apparent that i need to
105. 3:34be out here
106. 3:36voicing my opinion speaking truth to
107. 3:38power
108. 3:39so that other people who might be hiding
109. 3:41in plain sight
110. 3:42know that they too can stand up and
111. 3:45speak for themselves
112. 3:47let's go back all that time if we may i
113. 3:50i don't know how much you're able to
114. 3:53really remember how much has been
115. 3:56reminded to you
116. 3:58but what is your most powerful memory of
117. 4:01the moment
118. 4:02of conviction of being told that you had
119. 4:04done this thing
120. 4:06and that you were going to be punished
121. 4:07for it that you knew you were entirely
122. 4:09innocent of
123. 4:10i think at that moment because you got i
124. 4:12don't know if you know this but i was
125. 4:13actually
126. 4:14out on bail so i was freed
127. 4:17i was walking back and forth into the
128. 4:19courtroom
129. 4:20and into the courthouse and it was as if
130. 4:23the air was pulled out of the room
131. 4:26i couldn't believe it and in a moment of
132. 4:29desperation i lost
133. 4:30all the hope that you could imagine a
134. 4:32person would have in the criminal
135. 4:34justice system
136. 4:36in me it was born the criminal system of
137. 4:39injustice
138. 4:40i couldn't believe that they had
139. 4:42believed
140. 4:44that i was guilty of this crime that me
141. 4:47and the others of us who became known as
142. 4:48the exonerated five were actually
143. 4:51guilty of something that we had not done
144. 4:54and when you think about it
145. 4:55it was dna dioxic ribonucleic acid
146. 4:59that should have proven that we had not
147. 5:01done this
148. 5:02but they overstepped the bounds of the
149. 5:04law and said to themselves
150. 5:05there is no dna in this case but what we
151. 5:08do have
152. 5:09are their false confessions now they
153. 5:11didn't say false confessions
154. 5:13but it was apparent to everyone who was
155. 5:15seasoned
156. 5:17seasoned experts in this process you got
157. 5:20to remember
158. 5:21in new york city the officers that
159. 5:23interrogated us were part of manhattan
160. 5:24north homicide squad
161. 5:26this is a pretty elite group of
162. 5:28individuals
163. 5:29you can't get into this organization
164. 5:32inside of the police department inside
165. 5:33of the detectives
166. 5:35unless you've done at least 20 years on
167. 5:37the job
168. 5:38imagine a person working for 20 years
169. 5:41learning for 20 years
170. 5:42participating for 20 years that person
171. 5:45is an
172. 5:45expert right that person is an absolute
173. 5:49expert they knew that these confessions
174. 5:52that they were getting were false
175. 5:55they knew because they didn't match
176. 5:56anything else they knew because it
177. 5:58didn't match the forensic scientists
178. 6:00recreation of the crime scene and
179. 6:03ultimately they knew because this woman
180. 6:04lost three-fourths of her blood
181. 6:07in a crime that they said was so heinous
182. 6:10they didn't expect that she would live
183. 6:12and you have no doubt
184. 6:13that they consciously knew that this
185. 6:15wasn't a subconscious bias they didn't
186. 6:17convince themselves into this
187. 6:19no absolutely they knew this beyond a
188. 6:21shadow of a doubt
189. 6:22because like i said if you're 20 years
190. 6:24on the job and you start hearing someone
191. 6:25tell a story
192. 6:26you're corroborating that information
193. 6:28with everything that you have
194. 6:31you're corroborating you're not trying
195. 6:33to figure out let me see if you know i
196. 6:34could just stick it to the wall let me
197. 6:36you know wear neophytes let's figure it
198. 6:38out no you
199. 6:39are an expert you are crossing your
200. 6:43eyes you're crossing your t's and
201. 6:45dotting your eyes
202. 6:46and you're doing it in such a way that
203. 6:47you want to make sure
204. 6:49that there is a conviction and why do
205. 6:51you want to make sure of that
206. 6:53because the people who you protect and
207. 6:54serve don't look like me
208. 6:56even though we see that on the side of
209. 6:58cop cars throughout the whole united
210. 6:59states
211. 7:00in new york they go a step further and
212. 7:02they have the words courtesy
213. 7:04professionalism and respect
214. 7:05added to the side of cop cars how have
215. 7:08you been
216. 7:09raised to think of the police i was
217. 7:11raised to believe that the police were
218. 7:12not our friends
219. 7:14i didn't know why because i would see
220. 7:17police officers walking around our
221. 7:18neighborhoods
222. 7:20and i would wave to them hey how you
223. 7:21doing mr officer
224. 7:23now my mother would slap my hand and she
225. 7:26would remind me
226. 7:27she said i was raised in the jim crow
227. 7:29south
228. 7:30i didn't understand what she meant by
229. 7:32that you know in my mind
230. 7:34i'm like but we're in new york i didn't
231. 7:36know anything about the sound
232. 7:38i thought that everything was safe i
233. 7:40thought we were okay
234. 7:42i wanted the american dream i wanted
235. 7:44america to be rosy and sweet
236. 7:47and then i was run over by the spike
237. 7:49wheels of justice and introduced to the
238. 7:51american nightmare
239. 7:52and so what what had she told you about
240. 7:54how you should behave if you ever
241. 7:57came up against the police well see
242. 7:58that's the part that's the most
243. 8:01you know when you when you think about
244. 8:03the conversation the talk that they
245. 8:05have described that black families have
246. 8:08been having
247. 8:08lately with their loved ones how do you
248. 8:11survive
249. 8:12walking outside of this door and make it
250. 8:14home tonight
251. 8:16we've been having that talk all our
252. 8:19lives
253. 8:20that is a common reality in black and
254. 8:23brown communities
255. 8:24and the worst part about it is that
256. 8:27until you're
257. 8:28waking up to this nightmare
258. 8:31you really don't believe that it'll
259. 8:33happen to you
260. 8:34my my good friend and mentor les brown
261. 8:37he always reminds me he says you know
262. 8:39yousef it's not about if you fall in
263. 8:41life
264. 8:42but it's about when you fall and he said
265. 8:45when you fall in life
266. 8:46try to land on your back because if you
267. 8:49can look up
268. 8:50you can get up but i tell you all along
269. 8:53i had tremendous hope i thought that
270. 8:55if i could call the cops and if a crime
271. 8:58was happening and i needed help i would
272. 9:00be able to call the cops
273. 9:01and they would come running to help me
274. 9:05in the black and brown communities that
275. 9:07doesn't happen
276. 9:08but don't you think that for there to be
277. 9:10progress
278. 9:12as well as for the police to change
279. 9:14black and brown families
280. 9:16need also to put their faith in the
281. 9:18authorities and the police
282. 9:20you need to have that hope and that
283. 9:22belief that they are there for you as
284. 9:23well
285. 9:24this is true you want that to be the
286. 9:26truth the ultimate truth
287. 9:28but unfortunately we have too many
288. 9:31examples
289. 9:33right now we have a front row seat to
290. 9:34the oppression in america
291. 9:37we've seen it with our own eyes we've
292. 9:39heard it
293. 9:40the outcry in the streets the outcry
294. 9:44around the world because of george floyd
295. 9:47his black life has to matter the outcry
296. 9:51the whole globe
297. 9:52is vibrating black life matters
298. 9:55right and when you look at
299. 9:58what happened after george floyd which
300. 10:01when you look at what happened
301. 10:02yesterday when you look at what will
302. 10:04happen tomorrow
303. 10:05we live in a country that the the
304. 10:09the head of the country the president if
305. 10:11you will
306. 10:12says make america great again
307. 10:15he's running under the slogan that he is
308. 10:17a law and order
309. 10:19president this is the same president who
310. 10:2231 years ago took out a full page ad
311. 10:25rushing to judge me and my brothers
312. 10:28calling for the death penalty to be
313. 10:30reinstated for the central park jogger
314. 10:32case
315. 10:33two weeks after we were accused not two
316. 10:36weeks after we had gone to trial
317. 10:39we were seen as guilty in having to
318. 10:41prove ourselves innocent
319. 10:43this was one of the most wicked
320. 10:46and unfortunate realities to wake up to
321. 10:49but this is america this is as american
322. 10:53as apple pie they have it in the
323. 10:54founding documents of this country
324. 10:56as a part of the 13th amendment even
325. 10:58though
326. 10:5957 years ago dr king marched on
327. 11:02washington
328. 11:04100 years prior to that there was the
329. 11:07emancipation proclamation signed into
330. 11:09law by abraham lincoln
331. 11:12but 100 years later dr king marched on
332. 11:15washington
333. 11:17what was the march for for freedom and
334. 11:19jobs
335. 11:21same march happened we're just finishing
336. 11:25the anniversary of that march and what
337. 11:28is the
338. 11:28outcry for freedom and jobs
339. 11:32they don't want to talk about the
340. 11:33actions that cause the reaction in the
341. 11:36black and brown communities
342. 11:37in the most marginalized spaces in
343. 11:39society
344. 11:40they want you to believe that people are
345. 11:42just crazy because
346. 11:43they just are but those of us who've
347. 11:46gone to school
348. 11:47even for a little bit of time have heard
349. 11:49of newton's third law of motion
350. 11:52that law says that for every action
351. 11:54there's an equal and opposite reaction
352. 11:56and so we are seeing the reaction in the
353. 11:59streets
354. 12:00and we're forgetting that there's an
355. 12:02action that caused that reaction
356. 12:04do you worry it's playing into donald
357. 12:07trump's hands though
358. 12:08that it's turning this election campaign
359. 12:11into one about law and order and that's
360. 12:13a topic in which he's very familiar
361. 12:15and very comfortable and that he can
362. 12:18play
363. 12:18a game of fear with traditional white
364. 12:21communities
365. 12:22and say to them is this what you want is
366. 12:24this rioting what you want
367. 12:26and he could win because of it well i
368. 12:27think that that's the tricky part right
369. 12:29we're dealing with true technology at
370. 12:32its finest
371. 12:34right we're we're talking about
372. 12:37us being oppressed and we're talking
373. 12:41about the police department
374. 12:43the system systemic oppression we're
375. 12:46talking about white supremacy white male
376. 12:48dominance
377. 12:49we're talking about us being murdered in
378. 12:52the streets
379. 12:54when you can have a person like dylann
380. 12:55roof shoot up a church
381. 12:57and be taken to dinner afterwards
382. 13:00all kinds of examples of people being
383. 13:03caught or captured alive but they don't
384. 13:06look like you or me
385. 13:08right they have the complexion as they
386. 13:10say for acceptance
387. 13:11and so they're afforded all
388. 13:13opportunities under the sun
389. 13:15when it comes to the judicial system the
390. 13:17duality in america
391. 13:19is if you're poor and a person of color
392. 13:22you're guilty and you have to prove
393. 13:23yourself innocent but if you look like
394. 13:26the constituents
395. 13:28if you look like the establishment then
396. 13:30you will be afforded every opportunity
397. 13:32under the sun we would do our best
398. 13:35to make sure you go not to jail they
399. 13:38create terms like affluenza
400. 13:40for people who look like they have the
401. 13:42complexion for acceptance
402. 13:44but when you look like mike brown
403. 13:48you look menacing you're growing you're
404. 13:50adulter
405. 13:51you're being adultified right in front
406. 13:54of everyone
407. 13:55you you you are you are being described
408. 13:58as a person
409. 13:59in the jungle and we are going into the
410. 14:02jungle and we have to prepare ourselves
411. 14:04as people who are standing up
412. 14:07to protect and serve it is the ultimate
413. 14:11hypocrisy
414. 14:12when we think about the system this same
415. 14:15system
416. 14:16malcolm x said they'll bust you all in
417. 14:18your mouth
418. 14:20and then they will arrest you for
419. 14:22assaulting them
420. 14:24why has this year been the different
421. 14:25year when it comes to black lives matter
422. 14:27and the way
423. 14:28the world and the white community has
424. 14:31reacted
425. 14:32i think one of the beautiful things
426. 14:34about this year
427. 14:36is symbolism we are
428. 14:39in the year 2020
429. 14:43symbolically that represents perfect
430. 14:45vision
431. 14:46we are seeing things that we have never
432. 14:48seen before
433. 14:50we are experiencing life in a way that
434. 14:52we have never experienced
435. 14:53life whether that means it's a global
436. 14:56pandemic
437. 14:56or whether that means global oppression
438. 14:59we are experiencing it and realizing for
439. 15:02the first time
440. 15:03that the sinister objective
441. 15:07in america has been states rights
442. 15:13and they never say states rights to what
443. 15:16but when people do their research
444. 15:18they find out that the complete
445. 15:19statement is states rights to own slaves
446. 15:24it's a hypocrisy that we are living in
447. 15:27but the curtain is being pulled back and
448. 15:29the truth is being exposed
449. 15:31and the streets are erupting when you
450. 15:34have seen
451. 15:35the images of george floyd and of other
452. 15:37people
453. 15:38does any part of you think you're lucky
454. 15:42to be alive
455. 15:43given what happened oh absolutely
456. 15:45absolutely
457. 15:47and and beyond luck really because i
458. 15:50believe that nothing is by happenstance
459. 15:52i look at life and i say to myself i was
460. 15:55supposed to be
461. 15:57given this cross so to speak to bear the
462. 15:59proverbial cross
463. 16:01i was supposed to be giving it because
464. 16:04one of the things i found out was that
465. 16:05you are not given
466. 16:06more than you can bear what you are
467. 16:09given
468. 16:10is what you can handle and life is
469. 16:12trying to create the survives of
470. 16:14the the the survival of the fittest
471. 16:18and as we survive we realize that those
472. 16:20indelible scars
473. 16:23cause us to show up in a way that we
474. 16:24would not have been able to show up
475. 16:26before
476. 16:27had i not been introduced to america
477. 16:31through donald trump i would not
478. 16:34have been unafraid in donald trump's
479. 16:37america 31 years later
480. 16:40this is what life gives us
481. 16:44right the central park jogger case is
482. 16:46not what most people think it is
483. 16:47it's actually a love story between god
484. 16:49and his people
485. 16:51it's a story that has placed america
486. 16:54on trial by this case
487. 16:57to expose the truth about america
488. 17:00that they would prefer to be to take our
489. 17:04young people and put them behind bars
490. 17:07than to give young people a fighting
491. 17:09chance they would prefer to take our
492. 17:11young people
493. 17:12and have them languishing in prisons
494. 17:15than to educate them
495. 17:17it costs over two hundred thousand
496. 17:19dollars a year
497. 17:20to put a young person in prison under
498. 17:23the age of 16.
499. 17:25it costs something like 20 000 a year
500. 17:28to just give them an education i mean
501. 17:30you mentioned donald trump he of course
502. 17:31famously
503. 17:32took out an advertisement in the media
504. 17:36which effectively called for you to be
505. 17:38executed
506. 17:39what do you think that represented at
507. 17:41the time i mean was it
508. 17:43was it racism was it populism or all of
509. 17:46these things wrapped up together it was
510. 17:48the ultimate racism
511. 17:50it was the epitome
512. 17:54of what we've experienced
513. 17:58like this wasn't an anomaly i just want
514. 18:00to i want to put that premise out there
515. 18:02i want to build everything off of the
516. 18:03premise
517. 18:04that is not an anomaly for
518. 18:08the system to claim that a black man has
519. 18:11raped a white woman many
520. 18:14men have gone to death and been hanging
521. 18:17from trees
522. 18:18because of the false accusation of rape
523. 18:21it is almost as if they
524. 18:22when they cry we die and that reality is
525. 18:26so
526. 18:26serious to deal with that it
527. 18:30it it shows you the sinister plot
528. 18:35we've been playing checkers and they've
529. 18:38been playing chess
530. 18:40and now we realize that we have to play
531. 18:42chess and more importantly we have to
532. 18:44play it
533. 18:45at a master level so how do you feel
534. 18:47about white people
535. 18:48i think white people are should be given
536. 18:51the opportunity
537. 18:53to prove that they are allies
538. 18:57and when i say prove that they are
539. 18:58allies i have
540. 19:00i have many white people as allies
541. 19:03that i am friends with my late great
542. 19:06attorney was william cuntzler
543. 19:08i remember he came to jail one day and
544. 19:10he said you know yousef
545. 19:12this case is such a case that in this
546. 19:13predominantly christian country
547. 19:16jesus christ himself couldn't have won
548. 19:18this case for you
549. 19:20that's serious he said to his daughters
550. 19:24when you look at william kunzler
551. 19:26disturbing the universe the film that
552. 19:27they made for him
553. 19:29he said to his daughters all white
554. 19:31people are racist
555. 19:33and his daughters were shocked how can
556. 19:35you say this dad you fight for the
557. 19:37freedom and justice and equality of
558. 19:38people who have been on the margins of
559. 19:40society
560. 19:42and he said it has nothing to do with
561. 19:44the content of who you are but
562. 19:46everything to do
563. 19:47with this cover that you walk into the
564. 19:49room with
565. 19:50you automatically get a pass my big
566. 19:53brother from the big brothers and big
567. 19:55sisters league
568. 19:56of new york he was a united states
569. 19:59district attorney for the eastern region
570. 20:01of the united states
571. 20:03he's a white man he used his privilege
572. 20:07to help me
573. 20:08i'm saying when it is black and white
574. 20:10when it is clear
575. 20:11that it is about spiritual wickedness in
576. 20:14high and low places
577. 20:16why would they have killed a dr king
578. 20:19because he had a dream the dream that he
579. 20:22had
580. 20:23was a dream that should have rippled
581. 20:25around the
582. 20:26globe and allowed him to survive
583. 20:30because all he was saying in part was
584. 20:33that the kaleidoscope of the human
585. 20:35family
586. 20:36has to be together in order to move
587. 20:38forward
588. 20:39but but if white people get a pass
589. 20:41because of the color of their skin
590. 20:44there's a difference between that and
591. 20:45saying that they are all racist
592. 20:48i'm not saying that they're all racist
593. 20:50i'm saying that
594. 20:51william kunsler said all white people
595. 20:54are racist
596. 20:55i i didn't say that i am saying that
597. 20:58what happens when you when when it comes
598. 21:00to the legal system
599. 21:03white people will automatically get a
600. 21:05pass for the color of their skin i want
601. 21:07to
602. 21:07i want to point your attention to
603. 21:09something that is really disturbing
604. 21:12when the central park jogger was found
605. 21:16there was a hospital a very prestigious
606. 21:19hospital that is still in new york
607. 21:21that was right there on the outside of
608. 21:23new york i mean on the outside of the
609. 21:24park
610. 21:26this hospital is mount sinai hospital
611. 21:30when the centre-back jogger was found
612. 21:32they bypassed
613. 21:34mount sinai hospital and took her to
614. 21:37metropolitan hospital
615. 21:41you know nobody will admit this but i
616. 21:43suspect they did that because they
617. 21:45thought she was a latina woman
618. 21:47they didn't know her race once they
619. 21:49found out that she was a white woman
620. 21:51they got her out of there and she
621. 21:53started to recover
622. 21:54and they took her upstate and took her
623. 21:57to the best facilities
624. 21:58now this is real disturbing because it's
625. 22:00in black and white for people who have
626. 22:02been living
627. 22:03under oppression but for people who have
628. 22:06not
629. 22:07people who have been part of the tokens
630. 22:09people who
631. 22:10have been given opportunities
632. 22:14they have been trained to believe
633. 22:17that the system is fair they have been
634. 22:20trained to believe that everything
635. 22:22works itself out but the truth of the
636. 22:24matter is that yusuf salaam
637. 22:27is not an anomaly they wanted me to
638. 22:29become the modern day emmett till
639. 22:32we became the modern day scottsboro boys
640. 22:35this is the truth of america well having
641. 22:38talked about everything that is wrong we
642. 22:39need to talk about how to
643. 22:42make things better do you think racism
644. 22:44is escapable
645. 22:45i do and and i think race so i'm a
646. 22:49muslim
647. 22:50and as a muslim one of the things that i
648. 22:52remember reading
649. 22:54in the autobiography of malcolm x is how
650. 22:57awakened he became when he made hajj
651. 23:00realizing that there were people who had
652. 23:02the blondes of hair and the blues of
653. 23:04eyes who were more brotherly
654. 23:06than he had experience in america
655. 23:10and it was because of islam you know
656. 23:12islam for me
657. 23:14you know i was born a muslim but at some
658. 23:16point i had accepted islam for myself i
659. 23:18saw the truth
660. 23:19in it and for me it vibrated in a way
661. 23:22that spoke life to me
662. 23:24and i think that when people realize the
663. 23:25true battle that's why i always call
664. 23:27this
665. 23:27this battle i don't call it a black
666. 23:30battle
667. 23:31a white battle i don't call it a battle
668. 23:33against the racist
669. 23:34i call it a battle of spiritual
670. 23:36wickedness in high and low places
671. 23:39because if you can be a white person and
672. 23:41be affected
673. 23:42by the evil that's out there if you can
674. 23:45be a black person
675. 23:46and be affected by the evil that's out
676. 23:48there
677. 23:50that same evil is affecting both but
678. 23:52there are
679. 23:53countless numbers of white people i'm
680. 23:55thinking about suzanne
681. 23:57what's up miss prejean who talks about
682. 24:00racism in a very
683. 24:01powerful way i talk about others who
684. 24:04talk about racism in a very very
685. 24:05powerful way
686. 24:07when you think about what they're
687. 24:08talking about they're talking about the
688. 24:10experience
689. 24:11that we've had in america the experience
690. 24:14that we've had in the school system
691. 24:16this is one of the reasons why in
692. 24:17punching the air we talk about
693. 24:19gentrifying neighborhoods and what that
694. 24:21means we talk about how can you this
695. 24:24how can you discover a basketball court
696. 24:26for instance
697. 24:28that basketball court was here before
698. 24:30you got there that
699. 24:31skateboard park was here before you got
700. 24:33there you have to honor the people
701. 24:35who were here before you got there
702. 24:38that's what makes things better
703. 24:40right when you come in and it's a
704. 24:42gentrifying neighborhood that
705. 24:44gentrification
706. 24:45brings a wealth of betterment into the
707. 24:49community
708. 24:50the worst part about it is that the
709. 24:51people who've been living there
710. 24:54for the most part they have never been
711. 24:56the recipients
712. 24:57of that of that wealth
713. 25:00of that opportunity i mean you you talk
714. 25:03about islam and
715. 25:04and that is a very specific um
716. 25:08idea that i think not a lot of people
717. 25:10have
718. 25:11really taken on that you know
719. 25:13theoretically at least there is no
720. 25:15racism within
721. 25:17between muslims you know that black
722. 25:19white brown
723. 25:20muslims all treat each other equally and
724. 25:23that's something that is
725. 25:24well that's not necessarily true
726. 25:29i want to put that premise out there as
727. 25:31a muslim i want to put that premise out
728. 25:32there
729. 25:33islam there is no racism in islam
730. 25:38as a muslim a person who comes into the
731. 25:42faith whether you were born in it or you
732. 25:44come into it
733. 25:45afterwards you come into it
734. 25:48with the experiences that you've had in
735. 25:51the world
736. 25:52and in those experiences then you have
737. 25:54to make a decision as to what you are
738. 25:57seeing
739. 25:57and so everything that should be
740. 25:59understood is being processed
741. 26:02through the lens of what islam is trying
742. 26:05to get people to understand
743. 26:07and islam is nothing new islam perhaps
744. 26:10may be the oldest faith
745. 26:13under the sun and i say that only
746. 26:14because when you think about
747. 26:17what's in the quran you think about it's
748. 26:20talking about
749. 26:21all of all of these other prophets that
750. 26:24other faiths
751. 26:25have claimed for themselves it's talking
752. 26:27about jesus
753. 26:29it's talking about mary it's talking
754. 26:31about abraham and moses and
755. 26:33lot and all of these prophets what is
756. 26:36what is the
757. 26:36essence of what is being said in that
758. 26:40faith and it's really interesting
759. 26:42because once you go into
760. 26:43the description i tell people all the
761. 26:46time you know i'm a motivational speaker
762. 26:48i'm a global international speaker
763. 26:52and most times i'm running for a plane
764. 26:54and so as i'm getting off of one job to
765. 26:56go to another job and i'm running to a
766. 26:58plane imagine this
767. 26:59imagine i get to the plane and i'm
768. 27:01huffing and puffing
769. 27:03and i say woof
770. 27:08god is the greatest i see a man sitting
771. 27:11in first class i grab his water and i
772. 27:13say thank you
773. 27:14and i drink some of the water oh that's
774. 27:15some good water pass it back
775. 27:17now of course not in cover 19 right
776. 27:19that's just don't do that
777. 27:21but if that same scenario was playing
778. 27:23out
779. 27:24and i came running to the plane and i
780. 27:27got there breathing heavy
781. 27:28and i said allahu akbar
782. 27:34i might not get on that plane i just
783. 27:37said god is the greatest
784. 27:39and if i set it
785. 27:42in a in a space where people were able
786. 27:44to accept it
787. 27:45some people may say hold on brother do
788. 27:47that again let me go live that was
789. 27:49amazing
790. 27:51but once you deal with islamophobia once
791. 27:54you deal with
792. 27:55xenophobia there's the problem
793. 28:00because people will have you have they
794. 28:01will describe for you
795. 28:03what that is but once you find out for
796. 28:06yourself you say hold on that's not what
797. 28:08that's not what that is muslims aren't
798. 28:10supposed to blow themselves up
799. 28:13why why would a person believe that
800. 28:15first of all
801. 28:16why would a person do that
802. 28:19muslims aren't supposed to cut down
803. 28:21trees in war
804. 28:24it's a it's amazing when you get into
805. 28:26the crux of things that you
806. 28:28when you understand it in a way that's
807. 28:30meaningful
808. 28:32right islam is one of the one of the
809. 28:34most brilliant
810. 28:36beautiful expressions in islam
811. 28:39is in the second chapter 256th verse i
812. 28:42believe it is
813. 28:43and it says there is no compulsion in
814. 28:46religion
815. 28:48i mean think about the world that we
816. 28:51live in today
817. 28:53we have everything going on in the world
818. 28:56we have
819. 28:56we have a lot of oppression and a lot of
820. 28:58other things but when you think about
821. 29:01the concept of coexisting
822. 29:05and then you look at that verse you say
823. 29:07to yourself that is coexisting
824. 29:10that is the beauty of islam
825. 29:14the beauty is that if you say a word
826. 29:16like jihad
827. 29:17without the explanation that the
828. 29:19greatest jihad according to the prophet
829. 29:22that kind that came with the final
830. 29:24message from god
831. 29:25he said the greatest jihad the greatest
832. 29:27struggle
833. 29:28is the struggle within yourself to
834. 29:30become your best self
835. 29:33people have a misunderstanding of what
836. 29:36it's all about
837. 29:37but but to come back to this question of
838. 29:38how racism is escapable
839. 29:41you know okay fine you know you can say
840. 29:44within a context of faith and a context
841. 29:47of religion if practiced correctly
842. 29:49i can see how racism is escapable but in
843. 29:52the real world in which we have
844. 29:53different beliefs and competing faiths
845. 29:56and people of no faith or people who
846. 29:58just don't know
847. 29:59and aren't sure um how is racism
848. 30:03escapable
849. 30:04in the real world no in that in that
850. 30:06perspective
851. 30:07in that perspective we have to
852. 30:10collectively
853. 30:11unify and say no
854. 30:14we all have to become neo in the matrix
855. 30:18because i understand what you're saying
856. 30:19you're talking about people who are
857. 30:20rigidly attached to their
858. 30:22ideas right people who have said no i
859. 30:26am a racist like if somebody who really
860. 30:28physically said i'm a racist
861. 30:30right i'm a white supremist right
862. 30:33we kill people for fun i mean people
863. 30:36there are people out there that have
864. 30:37this thought process they are just
865. 30:39waiting
866. 30:40when donald trump said in the good old
867. 30:42days you would have talked like that
868. 30:44they would have been carrying you out of
869. 30:45here in stretchers
870. 30:47look at the violence that ensued after
871. 30:50he said that
872. 30:52look at what's happening in the streets
873. 30:54when donald trump says
874. 30:56the mayors need to get ahold of their
875. 30:59cities he's not saying
876. 31:02we need to unify we need to listen to
877. 31:05the
878. 31:06to the to the outcry the screams of the
879. 31:09people in the streets calling
880. 31:11for black life to matter he said one of
881. 31:14his
882. 31:14points on his campaign run was hey what
883. 31:17do you have to lose
884. 31:20but in saying that you then need to give
885. 31:22people
886. 31:23an opportunity you need to be able to
887. 31:26lead by example
888. 31:29this whole experience in america today
889. 31:34is underneath his regime
890. 31:38and he as the head of the ship
891. 31:41most captains no captain from what i
892. 31:44understand
893. 31:45will jump ship they will go down with
894. 31:48the ship
895. 31:49and save all of the people in the ship
896. 31:51it is their duty
897. 31:52but how how how in practical terms must
898. 31:55this change be delivered
899. 31:56i mean you've put up a defense in the
900. 31:58course of this conversation
901. 32:00of the black lives matter movement on
902. 32:03and you've talked about people
903. 32:04collectively saying no you know
904. 32:08but d do you think this is going to
905. 32:10happen by
906. 32:11mass action on the streets and
907. 32:12demonstrations i think that
908. 32:14oh the the the
909. 32:19the battle for true spiritual
910. 32:22freedom for true freedom justice and
911. 32:25equality
912. 32:27happens when people read books like
913. 32:28punching the air
914. 32:30and i say that because this book it
915. 32:33gives people the opportunity
916. 32:35to walk vicariously in another person's
917. 32:38shoes
918. 32:39in here you have stories of police
919. 32:42officers
920. 32:43you have stories of court officers
921. 32:47prison officers inmates teachers
922. 32:51common citizens you have those stories
923. 32:53in here the beauty
924. 32:55the beautiful way that this book is
925. 32:56written is written in such a beautiful
926. 32:58way that
927. 32:59people will begin to vicariously see
928. 33:02themselves
929. 33:03in amal who might not look anything like
930. 33:06amal
931. 33:08they'll see themselves in the character
932. 33:10of jerry mathis
933. 33:12and they may not look like jeremy mathis
934. 33:14because everybody has experience
935. 33:16boys being boys you know fights happen
936. 33:20in this one of the premises of the
937. 33:23backdrops of this
938. 33:24story is that he is being accused of
939. 33:27attempted murder
940. 33:29when he was just he just had a fight it
941. 33:32was self-defense
942. 33:34it should not have been escalated to
943. 33:36them now trying to
944. 33:38talk about how he had this skateboard
945. 33:40and how
946. 33:41you know we we we think he hit him with
947. 33:44the skateboard no that's
948. 33:46all these these fallacies are now being
949. 33:48presented
950. 33:49to explain why it is that you have this
951. 33:52person arrested
952. 33:53that's just like the other day when they
953. 33:55shot that man seven times in the back
954. 33:58and his father went to see him as he was
955. 34:00in the in in the hospital
956. 34:03and he came out and he told the world
957. 34:05that his son is being handcuffed
958. 34:07to the bed handcuffed
959. 34:10and he's paralyzed where's he gonna run
960. 34:14to
961. 34:16it's it's it's that i think the ability
962. 34:19for conversation to happen
963. 34:21that causes the world to open up
964. 34:24that causes people to say i see you as
965. 34:27if they see them for the first time
966. 34:29and i think it's that part that's the
967. 34:31most important because when we try to
968. 34:33bridge the gap
969. 34:35we're talking about things that the
970. 34:38former
971. 34:38first lady said when they go low we go
972. 34:41high
973. 34:43we have a road that we can choose to
974. 34:45follow
975. 34:47and nothing would be wrong if we
976. 34:48followed it
977. 34:50but we are going high we're taking the
978. 34:52high road
979. 34:54you know imagine if we wanted
980. 34:57um revenge we talked about how you felt
981. 35:02the day your conviction was handed down
982. 35:06did you have any new faith in the system
983. 35:10when the truth finally came out no
984. 35:14i think that the truth about what
985. 35:16happened to us
986. 35:18it uh overwhelmed my faith in the system
987. 35:22because the truth about it is that they
988. 35:24really wanted us to be guilty
989. 35:27they really wanted the system to have
990. 35:28not made a mistake
991. 35:30and as you can see even though the truth
992. 35:33came out
993. 35:34they still didn't admit that there was a
994. 35:37mistake that had been done
995. 35:40they would rather be on the side that
996. 35:42says that the system is infallible
997. 35:44and that they make no mistakes but when
998. 35:46we look at what happens
999. 35:48and continues to happen to us you know
1000. 35:51faith in the system would mean that our
1001. 35:54case would have been
1002. 35:55an an indicator to other cases
1003. 35:59just like it that says we got to do
1004. 36:02something different
1005. 36:03we got to change but it's business as
1006. 36:06usual
1007. 36:06so if you could change the world by
1008. 36:09flicking a switch or waving a wand how
1009. 36:12would you change it
1010. 36:13i was i was researching once and i
1011. 36:15forget the gentleman's name or the
1012. 36:17person's name but they said
1013. 36:19what would you do to a person like
1014. 36:23hitler
1015. 36:24who did all of these evils and i would
1016. 36:27say well what would we do to
1017. 36:29people who practice white supremacy
1018. 36:32white male dominance
1019. 36:34we would make them if if possible
1020. 36:37be reborn with black skin just those
1021. 36:40people
1022. 36:41everyone i mean are you talking about a
1023. 36:44world in which everyone is the same
1024. 36:46no i'm talking about people being able
1025. 36:49to understand
1026. 36:50the truth because the truth is
1027. 36:53we also have been taught by the
1028. 36:56miseducation
1029. 36:58of what we've been under and people like
1030. 37:01dr cotter g woodson created a book two
1031. 37:04books one book called the mis
1032. 37:05education of the negro in another book
1033. 37:07called the education of the negro
1034. 37:09and when we look at the job of of of
1035. 37:12oppression
1036. 37:14we can't help but to understand that two
1037. 37:16children
1038. 37:18who are from different backgrounds look
1039. 37:21differently act differently can go into
1040. 37:23the same school system
1041. 37:25and somewhere around the fourth grade
1042. 37:27one child begins to straighten their
1043. 37:28back and be
1044. 37:30poured into in a way that's
1045. 37:31overwhelmingly positive and the other
1046. 37:33child
1047. 37:34begins to check out and the child that
1048. 37:36begins to check out is usually the black
1049. 37:38child
1050. 37:38because the black child for from before
1051. 37:42america has been taught that they're not
1052. 37:45worth nothing
1053. 37:47and the truth is that they're worth
1054. 37:48everything and imagine if we taught
1055. 37:51our children that they're worth
1056. 37:52everything that they matter
1057. 37:54psychosocially they will move in this
1058. 37:57world
1059. 37:58as if they matter but far too often
1060. 38:01the words that come out of the mouths of
1061. 38:02those who are supposed to educate us
1062. 38:04are words like you don't matter maybe
1063. 38:07not in that
1064. 38:08in that simple way but to say that
1065. 38:11someone doesn't matter is really
1066. 38:12unfortunate because they then begin to
1067. 38:15move throughout their life
1068. 38:17as if they are a mistake if they believe
1069. 38:19that
1070. 38:20and in the short term i mean clearly you
1071. 38:23you think donald trump is a disaster
1072. 38:25for america but what what difference do
1073. 38:28you really think
1074. 38:30president biden would make you know i'm
1075. 38:32thinking about
1076. 38:33the presidency and where we are
1077. 38:37in the gains that need to be made as
1078. 38:40those gains being incremental
1079. 38:43we live in a world now where people's
1080. 38:46minds and hearts
1081. 38:48are open and they understand things from
1082. 38:51a different vantage point
1083. 38:53and in that reality we know that we
1084. 38:56definitely
1085. 38:57should not have another four years of
1086. 38:58donald trump
1087. 39:00and so because biden is the only other
1088. 39:03option
1089. 39:04and we live in a world we live in a
1090. 39:06system in america
1091. 39:08that votes those of us who say well i
1092. 39:11don't want to participate
1093. 39:14don't like who we have as an option
1094. 39:17non-participation is participation
1095. 39:21we have to participate and then the next
1096. 39:24time we participate even
1097. 39:25greater there's never been 100
1098. 39:27participation
1099. 39:29but we can at least make a stance and
1100. 39:32participate
1101. 39:33in our own freedom justice inequality by
1102. 39:36utilizing one of the most powerful
1103. 39:38things that we have in our arsenal
1104. 39:40and that's the voting process because if
1105. 39:42voting didn't matter
1106. 39:44there wouldn't be too many people out
1107. 39:45there trying to make sure we didn't vote
1108. 39:48it matters and it matters greatly mr
1109. 39:51salam thank you very much indeed
1110. 39:53for sharing your story and your ways to
1111. 39:55change the world
1112. 39:56thank you for your time thank you as
1113. 39:58well i hope you enjoyed listening to
1114. 39:59that or watching it
1115. 40:00if you did then please do give us a
1116. 40:02rating and a review our producer is
1117. 40:04rachel evans and you can watch all of
1118. 40:05these interviews on the channel 4 news
1119. 40:07youtube channel
1120. 40:07until next time bye