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Your Dreams Are Warning You... — Transcript

by Vlad Savchuk · 17,411 words · 2,565 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00This is the most impactful moment during
0:02my deliverance. My wife was there as
0:04well. During her deliverance, [music]
0:05the minister asked the demons in her,
0:07"How did you enter?" She started
0:09laughing and she just did like this and
0:12pointed at [music] me. And so my wife's
0:14demons said that they enter through me.
0:17That moment it broke me. What are the
0:19signs that a person has a spirit spouse
0:21and how do they get one?
0:22>> Spirit spouse is pretty much when
0:24[music] demons start tormenting you in
0:26your dreams. The spirit of lust that I
0:29got delivered from, it was also a spirit
0:30[music] spouse. It will cause you to not
0:33have a pure affection for your wife
0:35because it's like you're you're kind of
0:37cheating but in your dreams. I'm not
0:39saying that all dreams are always
0:40spiritual but our dreams is a very good
0:42indicator of our spiritual health and
0:45[music] spiritual life.
0:46>> Do you think that people get their
0:48demons through and relationship
0:51especially when things get physical?
0:54Welcome everyone to today's very
0:56intriguing, interesting conversation
0:58that we're going to have around the
1:00unseen realm, around the spiritual
1:02things and how they affect our everyday
1:04lives. Today I have the pleasure of
1:06having not only a good friend but also a
1:09collaborer and a pastor, Pastor Rickard,
1:11who is in charge of the deliverance
1:14ministry here at Hungry Jan. He's
1:16currently at our Pasco campus which by
1:18the time you'll be watching this will be
1:20our Kenwick campus and he is launching a
1:23campus in Reon where he's going to be
1:25pastoring there. You probably have seen
1:27him. He's one of those guys that you've
1:29seen probably a lot of his videos of him
1:30yelling um then talking to demons. We're
1:33going to address all of that. Why in the
1:34world he does that and what's happening
1:36and so um but he's a dynamic dynamic
1:39personality. He's originally from
1:41Sweden. Comes from a pastor's family. He
1:44loves Jesus. He is a radical man. And uh
1:48today you're going to get a chance to
1:49kind of hear a little bit of our
1:50conversation about spiritual warfare,
1:51deliverance. And so Rickard, glad you're
1:54here.
1:54>> Thank you very much. It's an honor. I
1:57feel like I'm I'm at the at the, you
2:00know, very important table and and it's
2:02an honor to be here, pastor.
2:03>> You were one of the first ones when you
2:05did a live stream uh in from my studio
2:08just in the beginning when I just
2:10started a YouTube channel.
2:12>> Yeah. And look at full circle now here.
2:15It's been a It's been a long journey.
2:17>> Um the topic of deliverance is
2:18definitely a big passion of yours.
2:20>> You're passionate um about casting out
2:22demons and you get lit up. Your your
2:25eyes get lit up anytime we talk about
2:27that.
2:28>> I don't think I've ever met anybody who
2:30is that passionate uh about deliverance.
2:34>> Can you start from the beginning? When
2:36was your exposure first to deliverance
2:39and how were you exposed to that first?
2:41>> Yeah. So, I grew up in a pastor's family
2:44in Sweden. First off, my parents were
2:47not pastors when I was born. I was born
2:51to um my parents who my dad was kind of
2:56like a believer in his teenage years,
2:58but then he backslid and met my mom who
3:01was not a believer either. They got
3:03together. I was born after that. They
3:05got married. And uh my mom actually had
3:09a a dream that scared the hell out of
3:12her literally. And so she had a dream
3:15where where she saw the end times kind
3:17of and she saw me and God was telling
3:21her that your son is going to hell in
3:23the dream. So she was like freaking out
3:25and she woke up and she said
3:27>> to to my dad, "What does this dream
3:29mean?" Because she realized it was God
3:32that was speaking in the dream. and and
3:34he got scared because as a teenager, he
3:36had heard about the rapture and all
3:38that. He's like, "Oh, no, it's
3:39happening. Oh, we have to go to church.
3:40We have to go to church." So, my parents
3:43started coming back to when my mom came
3:44for the first time and my dad came back
3:46to God. And that's how I kind of got um
3:52I received salvation at an early age as
3:54well. My parents um came to us.
3:58Actually, my dad came to us when I was
3:59about 10. They had not yet started a
4:02church by then. They were uh evangelists
4:04in a local Pentecostal church
4:06>> and then he went to Bible school in
4:08Florida uh with Rodney Howard Brown
4:11>> for a year and then he got kind of sent
4:13from there to start a church in Sweden
4:15and from age of 11 that's when the
4:20church was there for in Sweden and I
4:22grew up in that we saw a lot of miracles
4:26signs and wonders happening my dad
4:27always had has had a very childlike
4:30faith
4:31>> and then deliverance started slowly but
4:34surely happening in our church. I
4:36remember one specific one. I think this
4:38was the very first deliverance that I
4:41ever saw and it was uh I I share it when
4:45I preach sometimes. It was a Peruvian
4:47woman
4:48>> and she was on the couch and everyone in
4:50the group kind of it was a home group
4:52kind of a thing and everyone was praying
4:53for her. She was petite and she started
4:56manifesting and this manly voice speaks
5:00out of her really like manly and scary
5:03and I was there. I'm like
5:06>> you were like 11
5:07>> 11 around 11 12 something like that. And
5:10then they pray for like 30 minutes
5:12trying to cast it out. My dad barely
5:14knows what he's doing. Nobody knows.
5:15Everyone is just using the name Jesus
5:17trying to different things. Finally, she
5:19calms down in the couch there and she
5:21sits up and she fixs her hair and then
5:23she's like,
5:24>> "Oh, thank you, Jesus. She's free now.
5:26She's free now." And my dad was like,
5:28"She's free. Why is why are you talking
5:31in third person?" He's like, "No,
5:32something's there in the name of Jesus."
5:34And then she flares up again and starts
5:36manifesting. So, that was like my first
5:38experience was a demon that manifested.
5:41Tried to trick them into having been
5:43cast out, but then gets exposed again.
5:45Finally, she gets
5:46>> a pretty dumb way of of saying she's
5:49free. At least the demon could have
5:51said, "I'm free." Yeah. Yeah. I know.
5:53It's so I I many times I I that's why I
5:57think demons meant they're they're they
6:00try all these kind of strategies to not
6:01get cast out. But that was my very first
6:04experience. I was scared and you know
6:08saw more and more deliverances happening
6:10and began to understand that hey
6:12deliverance is for believers. Most of
6:15the people in church was the ones
6:17getting delivered and stuff.
6:17>> Have you ever considered the fact that
6:19you have a demon?
6:21>> Oh yeah.
6:21>> Growing up.
6:22>> Oh yeah, 100%. Um
6:25I I definitely was struggling a lot. I
6:28got introduced to porn really early.
6:32It's actually before my dad became a
6:34pastor. So I believe it was a
6:36generational curse of lust and
6:38perversion. M
6:39>> um my grandpa, God bless him, had
6:42married and remarried like four or five
6:44times. So there was this like very kind
6:46men but very like lust in the family.
6:50And so I discovered my dad's VHS
6:52cassettes of porn when I was just four
6:55or something. This was you know before
6:57they came to Jesus and all that kind of
6:59stuff.
7:00>> And so um after that I I interestingly
7:04everywhere I went porn just appeared. I
7:07was out in the forest playing with my
7:08friend. Suddenly under a stone in the
7:11middle of the forest we find this
7:12pornographic magazine. It's like what's
7:14the odds of that?
7:16>> And so early on I got kind of introduced
7:18to porn and lust, masturbation and all
7:21these kind of things.
7:22>> And u it was a struggle my whole teenage
7:24years. My parents would say hey don't
7:27masturbate and don't do and I would try
7:29to confess my sins to them like dad I I
7:31fell again and stuff like that. And so I
7:33never in the beginning didn't realize it
7:35was demonic until
7:37>> maybe my teenage years it it took a
7:39stronger grip on me and started leading
7:42me into more and more perversion
7:44>> and that's when I began to realize that
7:47something's something's not right here.
7:50>> Um took many years after that before I
7:53finally got delivered though. So
7:55>> was your deliverance
7:57a physical manifestation or was that
7:59more of like a silent breaking down of a
8:01stronghold? And how was your deliverance
8:03that deliverance of lust?
8:05>> Yeah.
8:06>> So that deliverance it was a very
8:07violent one and not very violent but it
8:10was it was it manifested. I was on a
8:12prayer line just like we have at Hungry
8:15Jen and I had gone through all the
8:17preparation. Hey, prepare yourself. Hey,
8:19do you have anything you need to
8:20confess, repent? And I had done all this
8:22stuff. And then I was standing on the
8:23prayer line and I wasn't sure like am I
8:29going to manifest probably not like
8:31these guys. I mean I haven't done crime.
8:33I haven't done serious things.
8:35>> But then the man of God just laid hand
8:37on me and it felt like a a bag of cement
8:40hit my head like why did he hit me so
8:43hard and so I just felt anger and like a
8:48little tiny growl came out. And so he he
8:51noticed that and he came back and laid
8:53hand again.
8:54>> And then I'm like, "No, at this point
8:55he's just hitting me." Is what I
8:57thought. Like this guy is hitting me.
8:58He's trying to provoke something that's
9:00not there. He's just doing a
9:02heavy-handed kind of a thing. And so I'm
9:04like, "Ah, stop [clears throat] it."
9:05>> And then he's like, "Oh." And then he
9:07started more and more and then somewhere
9:09along like in the next 20 seconds, I
9:11realized it's not that I'm just angry
9:13with the past. It's actually something
9:15else manifesting. And at first I didn't
9:18get that. And so he started praying and
9:21then at some point he looked me in the
9:23eyes and I could feel his gaze just
9:25going through and like into my soul it
9:28felt like and he said who are you in
9:30this body
9:31>> and instantly in my heart I heard lust
9:34>> and so it didn't speak out by itself in
9:37my heart allow it.
9:38>> Yeah. So I I spoke out what I heard in
9:41my heart. I said lust
9:43>> and and so it was all I spoke what I
9:46heard because I I you know it didn't
9:48take full control but I knew that his
9:51eyes I knew that was that was like God
9:53looking straight through my soul kind of
9:55a thing.
9:55>> So I spoke out. He asked like how did
9:57you answer two or three questions each
9:59time that I spoke it took over more. And
10:01so by the third question I was no longer
10:04controlling it. It was speaking like it
10:06was flowing kind of a thing. And then
10:09you know
10:09>> would you would you say you were like on
10:11the back seat?
10:12>> Yeah. So I was there at all times. I
10:14didn't like black out and then woke up
10:16and remembered. I remember everything
10:18but it was like I was kind of
10:21>> behind losing control the longer it was
10:23going on.
10:24>> And then finally 60 seconds 90 seconds
10:28into it. It wasn't long at all. He said
10:29come out right now. I fell down. I
10:31remember I had such fire in my hands.
10:34Mhm.
10:35>> He explained later that that's because
10:36you were using your hands to
10:38self-pleasure. So like during my
10:40deliverance I felt fire there heating my
10:42hands [clears throat]
10:43>> fell down a little bit of you know
10:45shaking and he said uh come out and
10:48instantly I felt like [sighs]
10:51>> like just a relief something left me. I
10:55got up and um I I knew I was free at
10:58that moment.
11:00>> Did you see a change in your purity at
11:02the time? I did see a change in my
11:04purity but there was a lot of attacks
11:08immediately after
11:10>> um something that like immediately came
11:12and tried to trick me and say hey you
11:14know just that same night I think if I
11:17remember correctly the night after my
11:19deliverance I had a very intense sexual
11:21dream
11:22>> so I was like I woke up thinking that
11:25I'm not I'm not free but then someone
11:27told me like hey this is many times how
11:29they try to attack you right after your
11:31deliverance to discourage you to go back
11:34to the old sins because you're not free
11:36anyway.
11:37>> So I managed to like resist that and
11:39those dreams they faded away.
11:41>> And so yeah, that was I was in my 20s
11:44somewhere, 22 or something. So yeah,
11:46that's that was my first deliverance
11:48experience.
11:50>> And then you already started to practice
11:52deliverance, pray for other people.
11:54Yeah. And there was another very pivotal
11:57turning point, tipping point pretty much
11:59in your life that really changed a lot
12:02where you experienced another and maybe
12:04would say like a deeper deliverance.
12:07>> Yeah.
12:07>> You've alluded something briefly in the
12:09beginning that you were conceived out of
12:11wedlock.
12:11>> Yeah.
12:12>> As well. And so
12:14>> did any of that play into it? Could you
12:17dive a little bit into that deeper
12:18deliverance?
12:19>> Yeah, for sure. So later on in life, I
12:22experienced another deliverance. I would
12:24say that was like uh an even deeper
12:27level of deliverance. The first one was
12:30kind of like surface level. I used to
12:33say it's and and I think you use very
12:35similar analogies as well. It's like the
12:37people of Israel, they got delivered out
12:39of Egypt and out of slavery, oppression,
12:41all that. For me, the second one is
12:44almost like when you are going into the
12:46promised land, that old generation had
12:49to die in the wilderness. Generational
12:51curses. I was born out of wedlock. So I
12:54believe that the the being illegit of
12:57illegitimate birth and being born out of
12:59wedlock, it caused that
13:02>> recurring lust to constantly try to get
13:05back.
13:06>> And so my second deliverance was some
13:09years after that and it was way deeper.
13:13It wasn't on a prayer line actually. I
13:15was now in a room with a minister.
13:18He went through my entire history share
13:20you know I shared everything about my
13:22parents and all the things that runs in
13:25the family a lot of the things that run
13:27in the family I realized to some degree
13:30try to get me too like we had a lot of
13:33suicide and mental illness on my
13:35mother's side and so I could see how why
13:38am I so explosive emotionally like
13:40sometimes I'm I get angry fast and happy
13:43fast like very like roller coaster and I
13:45could see that like those things kind of
13:47runs in the family
13:49>> as well as the lust with the
13:51generational things. And so those things
13:53had always constantly tried to
13:57>> get me again. And between my first
13:59deliverance and the deeper one, there
14:02was definitely periods where it was it
14:05was overwhelming with with depression.
14:09Mhm.
14:09>> I went through things in my life that I
14:11think triggered depression, triggered
14:15>> um hopelessness, and then those family
14:17things kind of immediately jumped on the
14:19bandwagon the moment that something
14:21triggered it.
14:22>> And so all those things I was dealing
14:24with and then the deeper deliverance
14:26>> as I was sitting down sharing
14:28everything, confessing everything, um it
14:31it went deep. And so
14:34>> the moment he started talking, I had
14:37opened up, confessed everything. And at
14:39this point, obviously, I was in ministry
14:41already.
14:42>> And so he he said, "Okay, now we're
14:44going to start praying." Instantly he
14:47said that the whole room started
14:48spinning. I'm like, "Okay, some
14:50something's going on."
14:51>> So you felt like our whole room
14:53>> the whole room was spinning. I'm like,
14:54"Why did I get dizzy the moment he said,
14:57"Okay, now we're going to start
14:58praying." M.
14:59>> And so because I'm a deliverance
15:01minister and because I was already
15:03ministering to people to some degree at
15:05that point, I could identify that. So I
15:08knew like, okay, I need to allow this to
15:11just surface. I'm not going to try to
15:13battle mentally like, oh, should I allow
15:15it? No, I just surrendered, put myself
15:17to the side.
15:18>> And then when he started talking again,
15:20things again spoke. But this time it
15:23wasn't just I'm lost. I'm It was deeper.
15:26It was like generational curses. It was
15:29all kinds of there was I think there was
15:31Jezebel there. There was all kinds of
15:33things that started speaking out that
15:35have run in the family for a long time.
15:38Uh and it was truly a generational
15:42deliverance. I feel like everything that
15:44had accumulated in the bloodline in the
15:46line lineage it all came to an end right
15:49there. So would you say that the first
15:51deliverance it was more dealing with the
15:54specifically the spirit of lust which
15:55was more of like an errant boy
15:58>> but the one that was calling the shots
16:00these generational curses they haven't
16:02been dealt with and so secretly you were
16:04still struggling and battling with that
16:06>> what are some of the things that came
16:07out during that second
16:09>> oh yeah
16:09>> deliverance for there was things that I
16:12don't there was um my hands were like
16:15contorting during the deliverance so um
16:18I actually there was guys in there like
16:20pinned me down because the minister was
16:22like, "Oh, he he's probably going to be
16:24aggressive and stuff." So, I my hands
16:26were contorting during the prayer like I
16:28just felt my hands kind of starting to
16:30curl up like this and I was hiding it.
16:33But then because I knew I hadn't lost
16:35consciousness or anything. I was right
16:37there and I felt everything but I
16:39couldn't like what is going on?
16:41>> And so I I chose to show my hands like
16:43this so that he could see that my hands
16:45are curling. He's like, "Oh, what's
16:46that?" And the moment I brought it up to
16:47the light like this, the hands just
16:49started moving together like this to a
16:51triangle, like an allseeing eye kind of
16:53a thing on my forehead.
16:56>> And I was like, me personally, I know
16:58what that means. I've cast out a lot of
17:00those kind of a symbols and and demons,
17:03illuminati and all that. And I was like,
17:05oh, the minister was like, oh,
17:07Illuminati, there's Illuminati here. How
17:09did you enter? And so there was this
17:11whole whole thing. um a lot of things.
17:14Jezebel came out um Illuminati,
17:17Freemasonry,
17:19um all of these things. And afterwards
17:22he said, "Oh, have you like done this
17:25one, two, X, Y, and Z?" And I'm like, "I
17:27haven't." So he asked, "So where do you
17:29think those things came from?" I'm
17:31relatively sure that the Illuminati
17:35stuff it entered through video games.
17:38That's what I believe because that's the
17:40only contact point that me personally I
17:42can think. Video games have so much
17:44symbolism and stuff of like witchcraft
17:47and all those kind of things. So in my
17:48ear it
17:49>> Yeah. Yeah. I was into video games
17:52>> um movies and all those kind of things a
17:54lot
17:55>> and so um yeah. [clears throat]
17:57>> So after you during this deliverance
18:00afterwards what did you feel?
18:02>> I felt I I I said something to the
18:06ministry immediately. He finished
18:08praying for me. I said a sentence. He's
18:10like, "Wow, that really and he's and and
18:12I said, "All these years
18:16all I needed was just help to get it
18:19out. I've been battling with it.
18:22>> I haven't known how to like and then
18:24suddenly it felt like yeah, I knew all
18:26that was after my deliverance. It was
18:28like I knew it was there all those
18:30things." It was just even then it was
18:32like is it demonic or not kind of a
18:35thing. And so truly um it was after that
18:40I felt such peace and all those
18:42everything went away. I was there and
18:46this is the most impactful moment during
18:48my deliverance. My wife was there as
18:50well and she was experiencing
18:51deliverance. And during her deliverance,
18:54the de the the minister asked the demons
18:57in her, "How did you enter?" And she was
18:59sitting like this and she started
19:01laughing and she just did like this
19:04and pointed at me.
19:07And so my wife's demons said that they
19:10enter through me. And so at that moment,
19:12so she went first that day for
19:14deliverance. That moment it broke me
19:17>> really. that moment I'm like what is
19:20going on? I I'm now suddenly family and
19:24stuff are being affected as well but
19:27this by the struggles that I've been in.
19:29And so that was I think it was God's
19:32design that she went before me for
19:34deliverance. When she pointed at me I
19:36just broke. I'm like okay it's my turn.
19:38Get it out. Get it out. Whatever is
19:40there
19:41>> and both of you experienced freedom.
19:43>> Both of us experience freedom after
19:45that. And
19:45>> somebody might listen to this and say,
19:47"Well, so you prayed for others to
19:50receive freedom and you had these
19:53demons."
19:54>> Mhm.
19:54>> Does it mean that you gave these demons
19:57to other people when you prayed for
19:59them? Like how do you explain praying
20:01for deliverance and you having that
20:03yourself?
20:04>> Yeah, absolutely. I believe as
20:07Christians and as believers um I don't
20:11think that there is any strong
20:14scriptural uh kind of backing for
20:18transferring of demons through laying on
20:20of hands. I believe that as Christians
20:23and believers when we are fighting these
20:25things I had done multiple 40-day fasts.
20:28I had prayed read the Bible back to back
20:31many times. worship all these things.
20:34Demons hate it. So when I did all these
20:37Christian practices,
20:39>> spending time in God's presence, soaking
20:41and doing all the things, it kind of
20:44beats those demons up.
20:46>> Mhm.
20:46>> So I believe that the journey is kind of
20:48like a boxing match where some rounds
20:50you win, some rounds you lose, but
20:52you're beating them up.
20:54>> So for my sake, there wasn't that like
20:56those demons pushed me into a ton of
20:59things. I think that was kind of the
21:02main actions were broken in the first
21:04deliverance, but these other things, it
21:07was constantly there, but there was a
21:10constant fight back. And so those demons
21:12were already to some degree
21:15broken down and they would try to come
21:17up when I'm weak, when, you know,
21:20circumstances hit, when, let's say,
21:22you're you're struggling financially,
21:24you fight in your marriage, something
21:26happened, those then those things try to
21:28come up and gain ground. Mhm.
21:30>> But generally the more I would pray and
21:31fast those things were kind of beat
21:33down. So I don't personally believe that
21:35if you struggling with demons as a
21:37minister that your demons are
21:40transferred.
21:42Um it's one thing with teaching. I think
21:44if you're teaching and your teaching is
21:46compromised that could cause stuff but
21:49laying on of hands I don't personally
21:51think that that's especially when your
21:53heart is
21:55>> you your heart is for Jesus. So God,
21:57>> I think the biggest problem happens is
21:59when
22:00>> my biggest concern is when somebody
22:02knows they have a problem and they don't
22:04seek help. Yeah.
22:06>> You know, but if somebody is walking in
22:07their life, they're walking in the light
22:09of the knowledge
22:10>> that they have currently. Um the Lord is
22:13not convicting them. This is the best
22:15they know how. They live for Jesus and
22:17they're walking in their obedience for
22:18Jesus. God uses them. There is a level
22:21of protection on the people they're
22:23ministering to and and people that are
22:25under their ministry. And then God
22:27highlights in their life brings a light.
22:29Hey, you need to deal with this area.
22:31This is more spiritual. Yeah.
22:32>> Instead of viewing as like, oh my
22:34goodness, so all of these years this
22:36person has lived with these demons, we
22:37should view it as, no, this person's
22:40finally got a light that the Lord
22:41illuminated their path, they respond to
22:43that. That's something to be celebrated
22:45cuz the fact that somebody's a minister
22:47does not automatically mean that every
22:49area of their life has victory in their
22:51life%. How many people today need
22:54deliverance? And this testimony will
22:57help them to realize, say, hey, you can
22:58be in ministry and you can still be in
23:01need of freedom and prayer and there's
23:03nothing to be ashamed about. Now, you've
23:05alluded to something about your wife
23:06that she got her demons through you. Do
23:10you think that people get their demons
23:13through an relationship, especially when
23:16things get physical?
23:18I believe it's one of the big open doors
23:22to demonic influence in your life is
23:25through soul ties where you are having a
23:29sexual relationship with someone
23:31whatever you've got it will if it you
23:36know wants to or if it finds an
23:38opportunity it will transfer and I can
23:41say that most of the time this is how I
23:45know in my life it's True. Because
23:48sometimes when I struggle with lust in
23:51the marriage, for example, me and my
23:53wife were apart for a long time, 3
23:55years. I got um not deported, one step
23:58below deported, but I was in Sweden. My
24:00wife was here.
24:01>> It was the hardest time of my life.
24:03>> I wish that I had never tasted the grape
24:07vineart [laughter]
24:09>> because as a man, I that's why the Bible
24:12says it's not good to be apart from your
24:13wife. So me and my wife, me personally,
24:16I struggled during that season with
24:18lust. It was a lot.
24:20>> Anytime I struggled and maybe I fell
24:23into masturbation or I fell into those
24:25things. My wife would come later and say
24:27I had a nightmare,
24:28>> a sexual dream and I'm I knew but I
24:31couldn't tell her. I knew that like
24:34whatever I was having it reflected to
24:37her in her dreams. M
24:39>> so in a way if she knew that I struggled
24:44at that point I I I struggled to be open
24:46with her at that season
24:48>> and so if she knew that I struggled at
24:50that point she would have she could have
24:52used the dreams as a discernment to say
24:54hey how are you doing she didn't connect
24:56that so she had the dreams and she's
24:58like I'm struggling with this I'm like
24:59it's probably nothing
25:01>> my conscience I knew that
25:03>> whatever I was dealing with it was
25:05tormenting her in her dreams through us
25:08all
25:08>> timeh So, but what if people are married
25:10for example? I know sometimes people
25:12have these questions. For example, the
25:13wife is a believer, the husband is not.
25:15>> Does it mean that automatically every
25:17time that she sleeps with her husband,
25:19she gets a demon? Because then she can
25:22go through deliverance, for example.
25:24>> Does she go and meet her husband as
25:26husband and wife? Because she doesn't
25:27want to get a demon.
25:29>> Good question. I believe that it talks
25:31about the in the Bible about keeping the
25:34marital bed undefiled. M
25:36>> I think as a wife if you have gone
25:38through and we we deal with this a lot a
25:40lot of it's normally kind of the wife
25:42that starts seeking out deliverance
25:43first you know a lot of the time and
25:46they come and they say hey does it mean
25:47that like my husband has to sleep in the
25:49other room I think that God protects you
25:52after deliverance
25:54>> because you're obedient to what he has
25:56instructed that holy matrimony should be
25:59>> so I think at that point out of
26:01obedience to God's word I think as a
26:04wife you're protected Mhm.
26:06>> I believe so. Um
26:08>> I think it's from case to case as well.
26:11But in my case
26:12>> because I knew what I was doing at that
26:15point. I was struggling with conscious
26:17sin as a believer as you know all these
26:20things. I was struggling with it. And
26:22so, um, yeah, I think for me there was a
26:24connection there where,
26:27you know, we didn't even have sexual
26:29relationship for years because we were
26:31in different countries and stuff. And
26:32so, um, there was a soul tie there that
26:35was established and because of my sin.
26:37But I don't think
26:39>> you go through deliverance, your husband
26:40isn't there yet, that you can because of
26:43that keep yourself away. That's that's
26:45unbiblical. Nowhere in the Bible does it
26:47suggest that you should break the holy
26:50matrimony. As long as you are holy,
26:52keeping the marital bed undefiled, I
26:54think
26:55>> I think God will protect that.
26:57>> Yeah. It's interesting how it's not
26:58always black and white on every single
27:00thing because in one sense here is your
27:03story.
27:04>> In one sense, a person can say, "Well,
27:06God didn't protect your wife."
27:07>> Yeah.
27:08>> But in the other sense, typically when
27:10people get a demon through a sexual
27:13connection,
27:14>> that's probably not the first time they
27:17got it. They usually have some kind of a
27:19generational curse that's involved in
27:21there. Like even in your case for
27:22example,
27:23>> there was a lot of uh generational
27:25curses that almost lie dormant waiting
27:28for few experiences and then boom. I
27:30mean even the psychology now proves it
27:32that people have things in their genes
27:34and then acute stress causes things to
27:37be triggered. What connection do you see
27:39between the generational curses? First
27:42of all, are they even biblical? The
27:44generational curses to how that opens
27:47the door to the demonic.
27:49>> Yeah, I believe 100% the generational
27:53curses um are in the Bible. There's a
27:57lot of arguments. Hey, the Bible doesn't
27:59you know with Jesus he was broken all
28:00those things.
28:01>> I think that God doesn't place
28:03generational curses on us the way he did
28:05in the Old Testament in the regard of
28:07like, hey, you will die because of the
28:09sins of your father. Everyone's
28:11salvation is personal now. But I believe
28:13that the devil operates on a
28:15generational level. Even I I love the
28:18example of Gideon. You know, when God
28:19tells Gideon that I'm going to use you
28:21to deliver your family and your nation,
28:24but then he tells him in the next
28:26sentence, you have to break down the
28:28altars of your father.
28:30>> And so there was altars there that he
28:32went and he had to break these things
28:34down for deliverance to begin to flow in
28:37his family, in his nation. So I believe
28:40that's a a good example of many times we
28:43have altars in our life and I was not
28:46the one that built up an altar of lust.
28:48There was an altar that maybe even my
28:49father inherited from his father and he
28:52from his father and it was an altar of
28:53perversion, sexual immorality.
28:55>> And so it was just inherited but because
28:58the it was in the in the linage the
29:01demons uh they are attracted to that.
29:04they're going to continue to operate
29:06through these generational curses in my
29:09life. So, yeah, 100% I believe that
29:11generational curses are biblical. They
29:13they exist. Um
29:15>> or even those two stories in the
29:17Gospels. Yeah.
29:18>> Where Jesus cast out demons out of
29:19children.
29:20>> Yeah. Exactly. Both times that Jesus
29:22cast demons out of children,
29:25>> uh it was a it was a family matter. Both
29:28times the the um parents were there. One
29:32of them Jesus asked how how long has he
29:35been having these things? Oh, since
29:36birth.
29:37>> There's nothing child could have done
29:39during those infancy
29:41>> days of practicing an occult or opening
29:44the door. So, there had to be either
29:46demons just randomly mini many mini
29:48picked kids or there had to be some kind
29:50of an opening.
29:51>> Yeah. Yeah. And we see it all the time.
29:54I mean, I see it all in my personal
29:56life. That's the best experience I can
29:57see. the two things that runs in my
30:00father's and my mother's side on my
30:01father's side lust specifically on my
30:03mother's side mental illness and all
30:06those things especially so many suicide
30:08and mental illness on my mother's side
30:10those are the things I know
30:12>> these are the ways probably that the
30:14devil is going to try to to attack and
30:17the the altars that were erected in the
30:18family for example my mother's side
30:21mental illness suicide and a lot all of
30:25them Jehovah's witnesses is
30:28>> h
30:28>> every single one of them on my mother's
30:30side. Um,
30:32>> was your mom a Jehovah's Witness?
30:34>> No, she never was. But her dad, her
30:36brother, her entire family were Jehovah
30:38for many generations. My mom was just an
30:41atheist
30:42>> until she she met my dad and my dad now,
30:45you know, [clears throat] the whole
30:45dream and all that stuff, but so much on
30:47the mother's side with all that kind of
30:49stuff. So in a sense I know that all
30:52these kind of religions they all kind of
30:54tie back to you know
30:57>> all that kind of stuff. So
31:00>> these were the things that I got
31:01delivered from and I could see depra
31:04like when I got hit with something
31:07depression would become very heavy on me
31:10>> because I'm I'm spiritually speaking
31:14prone to it from these generational
31:16curses. And so, um, yeah, I got
31:19delivered from all that. And, um,
31:21>> somebody will listen to this and say,
31:22well, it seems like every problem you
31:25guys deal with, you deal with
31:27deliverance. Like, uh, every problem is
31:29the nail and deliverance is the hammer.
31:32[clears throat]
31:32>> Do you think everything is a demon?
31:34>> Absolutely not. A lot of it is not uh
31:38demonic. But I used I used to say like
31:42hey if I'm like on the extreme side
31:44[laughter]
31:45it would balance out those who are
31:47extreme on the other side and then
31:48everyone who listens will find
31:49themselves in the middle kind of thing.
31:51But
31:51>> how would you how would you
31:52differentiate?
31:53>> So there is a lot of different things.
31:55For example a lot of things are soul
31:57wounds and trauma that happens from
31:59childhood. Abuse has happened to you.
32:02>> Abuse is not a demon. Trauma is not a
32:06demon. things that happened to you. But
32:08through those experiences
32:11now maybe demonic things can happen but
32:13also there is a wounds that needs to be
32:16healed [snorts] and trauma that reenacts
32:18and many times when we minister to
32:20people
32:22>> they are screaming out crying and stuff
32:24and you have to have the gift of
32:26discern. You have to allow God to
32:28minister in the gift of discernment in
32:30you so that you can tell this cry it's
32:33not demonic. It might look like it.
32:35might sound similar but this is just
32:38someone's trauma that is being
32:41emotionally healed and it's being
32:42expressed screaming out or whatever. So
32:45definitely everything isn't there is
32:48then of course the big one is flesh.
32:50>> Mhm.
32:50>> You know not every everything is a
32:53demon. You can't cast out flesh and you
32:55can't crucify.
32:55>> Do you know the difference between the
32:57flesh and the demon?
32:58>> Yeah. Um we are born with flesh. We are
33:03born with in into the sinful nature. And
33:06I think that the flesh is always on the
33:11inside trying to cooperate with the
33:14world and with demonic forces and that
33:17together
33:19>> it will bring in demonic bondage. So for
33:22example um watching porn one time I
33:27don't think is a demonic thing. Like the
33:28first time I was exposed to it, yeah,
33:30there was generational curses there and
33:31stuff, but there there's also flesh that
33:34a sinful nature that desires that
33:37self-gratification, desires more food,
33:41more sex, more this the stimulations of
33:44this world. And when you allow the flesh
33:46to drive you, it will constantly want
33:50more until it needs a spiritual
33:53experience to to satisfy it. goes
33:56further.
33:57>> And so, um, most of the time things that
34:01start, I think it starts in the flesh. A
34:04lot of things except for when it's
34:05generationally, but a lot of the things
34:07like, you know, you fall into porn, you
34:09fall into, you know, cheating, you know,
34:11you have a boyfriend, girlfriend, you're
34:12doing it the wrong way. It's not demonic
34:14immediately,
34:16>> but it's when you stay in the flesh that
34:18it's like when you're in the realm of
34:20the flesh, you are more um it's like
34:24you're bleeding in the water. It
34:25attracts the sharks.
34:27>> Mhm.
34:27>> A lot of very controversial though when
34:30it comes to mental illness.
34:31>> Yeah.
34:32>> Because you know we see a lot of times
34:33people who have seizures or maybe
34:34epilepsy and and there is a precedent
34:37within the deliverance community that
34:39all of that is demonic. Every mental
34:41health um issue is demonic. Where do you
34:43stand on that?
34:44>> Um 100% not all of it is demonic. I
34:48believe that a lot of it is uh things
34:51that in your brain are are wrong that
34:53you need healing prayers for. And we are
34:56at Hungry Jam, we're very big on the
34:58whole thing. We're like, "Hey, we don't
34:59tell people to stop taking medication.
35:01Whoever told you to take the medication
35:03is the one that has to tell you to stop
35:04taking it as well. I didn't prescribe
35:06it. I can't tell you to stop. It's
35:07between you and your doctor and God."
35:10>> And so, uh that's that's first of all,
35:12but yeah, not all mental illnesses are
35:15demonic. many times it can begin to
35:17operate uh at some degree together. Mhm.
35:22>> Uh and so for example,
35:25uh autism, I'm just going to name a few.
35:27For example, I believe autism is most of
35:29the time a health issue, not always
35:31demonic. A lot of it is health. And you
35:34know, even with taking care of your your
35:36uh diet and all these things, you can
35:38begin to see some changes.
35:40>> Uh but then we have other things like
35:42schizophrenia. A lot of the time, I
35:44think there is some demonic involvement
35:47there. Like when you look and hear how
35:50they are experiencing it, a lot of it
35:52seem to be demonic. But then uh if
35:55you're taking medication, those
35:57medications are specifically designed to
35:59suppress all those things. And something
36:01we know in deliverance is you have to
36:02allow it to come to the surface. So it's
36:04it's a very sensitive area where you
36:07have to work together with uh other
36:10professionals to make sure that you are
36:12ministering to the whole individual in
36:14that regard. Yeah, I don't believe that
36:16all mental illnesses are demonic. I
36:19think there's some
36:20>> How does somebody listen to this right
36:21now? They may feel like, hey, I think I
36:23have a demon. Could that be just a
36:25suggestion just because, you know,
36:27whatever you're aware of,
36:28[clears throat] you know, you have a red
36:29car, you see red cars, people are
36:31hearing about it and so they're just now
36:34aware. what or what would be the test
36:36you would give them to be sure if they
36:39have a demon or if this is just the
36:42suggestion that's coming because they're
36:43being manipulated by the conversation.
36:46>> Yeah. Most of the time um when it's time
36:52I I use this one Psalm I think it's
36:55Psalm 428
36:57where where it says deep calls unto
36:59deep. Mhm.
37:00>> I believe that um when you are ready for
37:05deliverance, for a deeper level
37:06deliverance, God will call you into it.
37:09>> I believe that's what happened to me for
37:10my deeper deliverance. It wasn't
37:13>> only symptoms that brought me to it. It
37:16was God. It was a time where
37:18>> more and more overwhelmingly things
37:20began to accumulate here and there, but
37:22I wasn't like, "Hey, this is a demon. I
37:24need to just go for deliverance." It was
37:26multiple things that happened that
37:28brought me to a point. It's like
37:31everything came to this exact point
37:34where the only thing I have left to do
37:36is to fall at the feet of Jesus if
37:38there's something there. And so um
37:40>> so it wasn't like this for 10 years you
37:42were trying to find a deeper
37:43deliverance.
37:44>> No absolutely.
37:44>> You were just living your Christian
37:46life. You were aware there are certain
37:47things that were happening and it's not
37:49that you were ignorant that those things
37:51were spiritual. It's just they were just
37:54things and you walked in the light that
37:56you had until there was that moment
37:58where the Lord started to bring those
38:00things into picture. Yeah.
38:01>> And conversation started to happen and
38:03there was just very clear, hey, you need
38:06to seek help and help was there.
38:08>> Yeah. Exactly. And so most of the time I
38:11I just like with the prodigal son where
38:14he he's one day he wakes up he's like
38:17I'm among the pigs. I don't think that
38:18it's a long kind of oh you know you pray
38:21for me and oh it didn't work and you
38:23pray for me too. I think
38:24>> when you're ready deep will call on to
38:27deep. God will bring you to that point
38:28and you will experience that deeper
38:30deliverance that you're looking for.
38:32>> And most of the time it's kind of like a
38:37quick turnaround. People that come to me
38:39and they're like, "Hey, I've been
38:40looking for deliverance for six years."
38:41Most of the time it's strongholds that
38:44has been developed. like I think I've
38:46got the demon because someone prophesied
38:48to me a long time or I I watched a
38:50YouTube video or I I heard something or
38:52I feel like something's there and
38:54because of these things I'm concluding
38:56that I've got demons. Everyone's prayed
38:58for me. Nobody could cast it out.
39:00>> At some point you have to also take
39:02responsibility and say, "Hey,
39:04>> maybe just explore for a moment. Maybe
39:06it's not demonic.
39:08>> Maybe what you're experiencing is carnal
39:10desires and you just want to blame
39:12someone for it when you fall. But most
39:15of the times when people are ready for
39:16deliverance, it's like, hey,
39:18>> um,
39:19>> 6 months ago or 3 months ago, I started
39:21this journey. I know I'm ready. And so
39:23for me, most of the time that's kind of
39:25like a
39:25>> which now brings me to the point where
39:27some parents or people would come in and
39:29say, "Hey, I think my spouse needs
39:31deliverance
39:32>> and they want to force that when the
39:34other person doesn't have that
39:35realization yet." What would you tell to
39:37those people? Yeah, I I always um I will
39:41turn to the person who actually they
39:43brought like this is the demonized
39:44person and say hey do you even want to
39:46be here like it's okay between me and
39:48you like as a brother to a brother or
39:49whatever
39:50>> do you feel like you want deliverance
39:53are you ready for deliverance and and I
39:56will try first to see you know hey do
39:58you know Jesus do you have do you want
39:59to have a change in your life and stuff
40:01>> if there is very much not ready
40:03>> then hey I'll let them I'll let them
40:06come back another time I try to tell
40:08people not to force deliverance. I
40:11believe that God is a gentleman.
40:13>> He doesn't force salvation. Neither does
40:15he force deliverance or any other things
40:17on people. I believe it's something that
40:19you have to come to the point where you
40:22are ready. You have come to the turning
40:24point. You realize you're at the bottom
40:26of the well. You can't go any deeper. H.
40:28And at the bottom of that, you find the
40:30only thing that can help us is a cross.
40:32Mhm. And sharing your testimony with
40:34those people
40:36>> and praying for them, I think are a lot
40:38more
40:39>> effective than dragging them.
40:41>> Yeah.
40:42>> And asking the deliverance minister or a
40:44pastor, hey, can you deliver them?
40:46Because then I feel like afterwards
40:48>> when they are ready,
40:49>> they could have built up so much offense
40:52toward that whole experience cuz it's
40:53also embarrassing. Here you are, you
40:55know, your wife or your husband dragging
40:57you, hey, pray for them. He has a demon.
40:59You know, like if your wife would have
41:00done that against your own will, I mean,
41:02it would have not helped.
41:03>> No, it wouldn't have helped. And in
41:05fact, when I was younger, I had an
41:07encounter with God that broke something
41:10off in my life in my teenage years that
41:13my dad, he was a pastor at this point.
41:16Um, I was struggling. He didn't know
41:18exactly how deep I was in perversion and
41:21lust and all that, but he just took
41:22anointing oil
41:24>> when I wasn't home. and he pray and he
41:26applied it to my pillow and he prayed
41:29for my pillow and said whatever is
41:30tormenting my son leave him. Okay, that
41:33was not some kind of a complete
41:35deliverance, but something broke in my
41:37life that led me on the journey. And so
41:41I believe, you know, as parents, as
41:42family members, instead of confronting
41:45constantly someone who is not ready yet,
41:47>> I believe it's better to be, you know, a
41:49little bit innocent as doves, but as
41:52snakes, you know, to apply anointing
41:54oil, pray for clothes, pray for the
41:56pillow. I think the pillow is really
41:57important. I think it's kind of from the
41:59spiritual perspective, you know, it's
42:01where you put your head down and all
42:02that kind of stuff. So,
42:04>> he did that for me and that had greater
42:06result in my life than hey son uh are
42:11you watching porn? You got to stop doing
42:12like that wouldn't I would have like
42:14turned off deflected that as a teenager
42:16like no dad I'm not doing that. I'm a
42:18good boy. M
42:19>> but but because of that I think that had
42:22greater impact where you tr let the Holy
42:24Spirit do the work.
42:26>> And this is you know maybe for somebody
42:29who needs to hear this but every
42:30deliverance you've experienced you've
42:32experienced as a Christian.
42:34>> Yeah.
42:34>> As a Bible believing pretty sure most of
42:36the time most of the seasons of your
42:38life you were spiritfilled.
42:40>> Yeah. And yet you clearly describe a
42:44situation where unclean spirits they
42:46were not broken off of you or they were
42:48not broken off in some kind of a spirit
42:50realm. They were coming out
42:52>> of you.
42:53>> How would you explain that? How can a
42:56Christian have the Holy Spirit living
42:58inside of him
42:59>> and [clears throat] at the same time
43:01have a demon living inside?
43:03>> Yeah. For me personally, I believe that
43:06we are three parts. Spirit, soul, and
43:08body. Um some people believe that we are
43:10two. The soul and spirit is kind of the
43:12same thing. But um if we [clears throat]
43:15are let's say um like the tabernacle,
43:18the tabernacle had three components. The
43:20outer courts, the holy place and the
43:22holy of holies. And so the holy of
43:24holies was the only place where the
43:26presence of God actually dwelt and and
43:28not everyone could go in there. Only the
43:30priests could go in there. So I believe
43:31we are the temple of the Holy Spirit.
43:33>> Spirit, soul and body. H just like that.
43:36And so uh when you are a Christian, when
43:39you are born again, Jesus said you must
43:41be born of the spirit to Nicodemus. So
43:43and the Bible also talks about our
43:45spirit being sealed by the we are sealed
43:47by the Holy Spirit. That is the seal of
43:48our salvation. So our spirit is
43:50resurrected is born again and the Holy
43:53Spirit now dwells there. But our soul
43:55and our body can be defiled and
43:58tormented by spiritual beings. So it's
44:00not in if you go back to the Greek never
44:03did it Jesus cast something off of
44:06people. It was always out. You can't
44:08cast something out if it's not in in the
44:11first place. And so
44:12>> yeah I think it's pretty clear we are
44:14three components. I understand when a
44:17Christian comes up and say the holy
44:18spirit and demons can't dwell together
44:21because even though you might on a
44:23surface level say that you believe that
44:26we are three parts you're still basic
44:28assumption that it's the same and so if
44:31you think that the spirit and soul is
44:32the same then the holy spirit dwells
44:34there demons cannot dwell in the same
44:36cup as the holy spirit understandably
44:39but if the spirit is a distinct part of
44:42your invisible man where the holy spirit
44:44dwells at all times That is where you
44:46have communion with God. That is the
44:48holy of holies and demons cannot
44:50penetrate that area. But your body and
44:53soul is where we the body especially we
44:56we are affected by all the things we see
44:59and hear. [clears throat] And then our
45:00soul is the inner man where our mind
45:02will and emotion is. And this is the
45:04area that is many times bound by
45:06indwelling demons and not casting off. I
45:09think casting off demons personally,
45:12it's just a way to try to avoid kind of
45:15like the stigma of something is living
45:17inside, something foreign is inside of
45:19you. And to not say that, we say, "Hey,
45:21we're just casting off fear off of your
45:24shoulders. We're casting off trauma off
45:26of you." But biblically, I believe the
45:29accurate one is to cast out.
45:30>> So then, can Christians be possessed?
45:33>> Oh, wow. Yeah. The big that's the that's
45:36the million-dollar question. And so
45:38Christians, the word possession, I think
45:41is wrongfully used. The translation from
45:45the original Greek word um is wrongfully
45:49translated. And the the meaning when
45:52people say that a lot of people every
45:54time I post about deliverance,
45:56Christians always, oh hey, Christians
45:58can be oppressed, but they can be
46:00possessed. They can be oppressed, not
46:02possessed. All that I think it comes
46:04from a wrongful interpretation of the
46:08word that is used which is like
46:09demonized or having demons which is
46:12>> where did that compartmentalization came
46:14from oppressed and possessed.
46:16>> Yeah. I mean it's from a theologian
46:19uh in the 1900s
46:21who um his name is Merrill Anger and he
46:26he was an evangelical theologian. He was
46:29all about you know the demonization
46:31stuff and so he believed that Christians
46:33cannot have an indwelling demon. Uh the
46:36only ones who have indwelling demons are
46:38the possessed people according to King
46:40James and they are unbelievers. They are
46:42not they don't have the Holy Spirit. But
46:44then he saw a lot of evidence of
46:46tormenting Christians. He said you can
46:47be oppressed from the outside. You're
46:50you're like wearing a coat of oppression
46:54and it's not indwelling. But then you
46:56know and he wrote a lot of books about
46:59this Merrill Anger and then when he
47:02started getting a lot of letters from
47:05people who are out in the mission field
47:06people with actual experience like hey
47:08we're casting out demons there is no
47:10distinguishable distinguishable
47:12difference between the manifestation of
47:14a believer and the manifestations in
47:16unbeliever. It's all demons coming out
47:18the exact same but this person
47:20>> lives for Jesus loves Jesus is born
47:22again has the Holy Spirit in their
47:23spirit but these people are not. So
47:25there's a disconnect. It's not
47:27oppression, possession. And so he
47:29actually withdrew those statements later
47:31on towards the end of his life. And he
47:33said, okay, deliverance and demonization
47:35is more like a spectrum. And the correct
47:37word to use is having demons or being
47:40demonized.
47:41>> What is that spectrum? I believe
47:45most
47:46>> because because we would agree from the
47:48gospels there are severe demonization
47:50and there are because people like to
47:53break them down that possessed are the
47:55people crawling the walls in the
47:56Hollywood films and then there is the
47:59Christian demonized kind of like having
48:01bad thoughts or intrusive thoughts or
48:03dreams.
48:04>> But what are the what are some of the
48:06degrees at least that you found of
48:08demonization?
48:09>> Yeah. So I believe the very first level
48:14is always temptation. That's where
48:16everything starts. It's not something is
48:18not living in inside of you at this
48:19point. But there's an attack on you.
48:21>> Your flesh, the traitor within as you
48:23preached about pastor, you know, starts
48:25to collaborate with outside forces and
48:27at some point there would be an attack
48:30where demons would try to enter. After
48:32temptation, I I call it affliction. M
48:35>> affliction I believe is when demons are
48:37tormenting your finances, your
48:38relationships and stuff. They have
48:40access to you, but they don't live
48:42permanently in you.
48:43>> So I believe it's like you have open
48:45doors,
48:46>> but just because I have an apartment
48:49somewhere. I don't live 100% of the time
48:51in my apartment. I go and do other
48:53things and stuff. So I kind of believe
48:54that demons are similar where they come
48:56and go a little bit. And this is still
48:58like a light level of demonic influence
49:01in your life. You still need
49:02deliverance. You need prayers of
49:04deliverance at that point. And many
49:07times those people there's not much
49:09manifestation.
49:10It's just kind of, you know, a little
49:12bit of crying, confession of sin, a lot
49:14of yawning,
49:15>> yawning, burping, all those kind of
49:17things. But then we go into the deeper
49:19levels. I call it oppression, but you
49:21know
49:22>> that that's when the demons actually
49:24begin to manifest. And if you're at that
49:26level, I think the manifestation is
49:28necessary.
49:29>> Mhm. I believe manifest
49:31>> and the demon is living inside already.
49:33>> The live the demon is living inside at
49:35that point and it needs to manifest to
49:37come out. That's what I personally
49:39believe.
49:40>> So can people who have oppression be
49:42delivered without that manifestation.
49:45>> I think [sighs]
49:46I think not.
49:48>> Okay.
49:48>> I think not. I think if you don't
49:51manifest then it wasn't that deep in the
49:53first bit. The demon can come and go and
49:56you kind of do the prayers of
49:57deliverance. You close the legal rights.
49:58you confess your sin and all those
50:00things and there's no manifestation.
50:01It's still a deliverance
50:04but now we have closed it off. The
50:05demons weren't there literally because
50:08then we see a lot of these people who
50:11>> claim to get delivered.
50:12>> Yeah.
50:13>> Then sometimes they come even to our
50:15ministry and like oh but I thought I
50:16dealt with this and you know but there
50:18are still residual fruit
50:20>> Yeah. of this problem. They can't shake
50:22it off and they're like, "Wait, why am I
50:24manifesting?" Or like when we had a lot
50:26of people in our team go through
50:28deliverance and quite few of them would
50:30kind of have the testimony. Yeah, I'm
50:31fine. They'll tell other people I'm
50:32fine.
50:33>> But then, you know, sometimes they were
50:35just not ready. The other time is that,
50:37you know, nobody wants to manifest
50:40because there's a little bit of a
50:41humbling thing like, man, you you you
50:43need you really need help. You're that
50:45messed up. [laughter] And so, after the
50:47third one, what is the fourth one?
50:48>> Yeah. So the fourth one is I call it
50:50subjugation. That's like the deeper one
50:53where you're beginning to struggle to
50:56see the difference between reality and
50:58like what is happening in your mind.
51:00You're so tormented in your mind. You're
51:02so tormented that it's very easy for you
51:05now to sin and even fall into crime and
51:08stuff like that. Like it's it's getting
51:10really deep where
51:12>> it's it's the you can you can no longer
51:15distinguish between your own thoughts
51:16and the demonic thought. It's all one
51:18now. You're you're the merging is almost
51:21complete like where the demon have
51:22completely started to take over your
51:24soul, your mind, your will, your
51:25emotion. People always talk about can
51:27the demons hear our thoughts? Well, if
51:29they're living inside, yeah, they can. I
51:31believe so. But when you're when demons
51:33attacking from the outside, yeah, they
51:34can't hear your thought. But when
51:36they're living inside, it's their
51:37thoughts you're hearing most of the
51:38time.
51:39>> And so, and then of course, we have the
51:41deepest one, which is I call it
51:43possession, but like that's the deepest
51:45one. That's I've seen some cases of
51:47those too where you know
51:49>> like a full almost full control.
51:51>> Yeah, I believe it's I believe it's full
51:53control. This is this is my belief
51:56personally. If Jesus did not go to
51:59Legion, he would never be delivered.
52:02>> He had to cross a sea, go through a
52:04storm, and go to the other side of the
52:06ocean for Legion to be delivered because
52:08those demons would never allow him into
52:10church. He would never allow him to get
52:12close to him. It wasn't on their agenda.
52:14they had enough control where they could
52:16keep him away. And so I believe we as
52:18believers, as Christians,
52:19>> we have a job to go out there as well
52:22because there are certain people who are
52:23so demonized, they're just never going
52:25to find themselves in church otherwise.
52:28>> And so people are like, "Well, God will
52:29give everyone a chance." Yeah. Through
52:30us.
52:31>> Don't be disobedient.
52:33>> Mhm.
52:34>> What is the craziest deliverance you
52:35witnessed?
52:36>> And one of my craziest deliverance, I've
52:38seen many. One of them was in Africa. Um
52:41he was um
52:45he he had three demons. One of them was
52:47Idigon, the god of iron, an idol of iron
52:50where they worship iron. And then uh a a
52:54mermaid spirit and then a snake. And he
52:57would literally run up the walls like
53:00jump up the walls up to the balcony of
53:03the church. So he had like supernatural
53:05strength during the deliverance and
53:07stuff.
53:09ushers and stuff, they were scared. So,
53:11everyone were backing off. The pastor
53:13came in and like, "Hey, took authority
53:15over him." He had to obey the name of
53:17Jesus. But that was like honestly a
53:20three-day deliverance. Three days. First
53:23day he was manifesting, manifesting. The
53:25service ended and he was so stiff. So,
53:28demons can be stiff oppositions. They
53:30can try to resist. They can't resist
53:32perpetually. Mhm.
53:33>> I don't believe a demon can just stand
53:36there and never surrender, like resist.
53:38That's for me that's more like there's
53:40flesh there involved as well because
53:42demons cannot just perpetually resist.
53:44But this demon resisted for a long time,
53:46three days. And so he he slept in the
53:48church. The guy snuck out from the
53:51church in the middle of the night, came
53:53back, brought a chicken. He was doing a
53:55witchcraft ritual. in front of the
53:57church, he bit the head of the the
53:59chicken and started pouring blood on his
54:01head like this, like a witchcraft ritual
54:03to gain spiritual power because
54:06>> in in a lot of witchcraft circles,
54:08>> blood represents power. And so when you
54:11shed blood, you get more demonic power.
54:14>> And that's why the blood of Jesus was
54:16shed for the remission of all sins.
54:18>> And so and he did. He came back and he
54:20tried to resist. Finally, he got
54:22delivered after about 2 and 1/2 days.
54:25And it was a powerful powerful
54:27experience.
54:28>> Wow. When it comes to soul ties, we
54:30alluded to that in the beginning. You
54:31highlighted a little bit. What are
54:33different types of soul ties? Because
54:35there's some seems to be a good soul
54:37ties
54:38>> and then there is the demonic ones and
54:41um what types of soul ties and how does
54:43one distinguish whether the soul tie
54:45they have is not healthy one.
54:48>> Yeah. Good. I believe that a lot of the
54:50signs God created us to have soul ties.
54:54The Bible says you would become one
54:56flesh. Now, you're obviously in a
54:59literal sense not a one flesh from there
55:01on because you walk away after sexual
55:03intercourse, she walks away. You're not
55:04one flesh. It's a spiritual meaning and
55:07it's where the souls get intertwined
55:09just like it talks about Jonathan also
55:11being intertwined with David, which was
55:12not a sex, it was an emotional soul tie.
55:14So, I believe that sexual intercourse or
55:17deep emotional connection causes healthy
55:20godly soul ties the way it's meant to
55:21be. husband and wife, parents and
55:24children, close relationship of friends.
55:26These are all healthy soul ties. Ungodly
55:29soul ties is when you go outside of the
55:31biblical protocol and you have sexual
55:32intercourse with people who you are not
55:34married to or you have a toxic
55:36relationship, abusive relationship where
55:39one part is dominating the other where
55:41there's toxicity, betrayal and all these
55:44kind of things. There can be emotional
55:46or sexual ungodly soul ties or even soul
55:50ties to like you're addicted to porn and
55:53you have your favorite porn actress that
55:55you always watch and that creates a a
55:58soul tie to that woman
56:01>> an emotional one through the act of
56:03constantly masturbating to her images
56:05and stuff. And so all these kind of soul
56:07ties uh causes open door for demons. So
56:11we have so many people who like, "Hey
56:13man, I'm struggling with these terrible
56:16dark nightmares. I've never done any of
56:19these kind of things, but they've got
56:21package. They slept with people, 10, 20
56:24people. And some of them are witches.
56:26They they're into witchcraft. And so
56:28those witchcraft spells are still
56:30operating through those soul ties that
56:32haven't been cut off.
56:33>> Some of us also, we are more,
56:36>> frankly speaking, some of us are more
56:37prone to develop soul ties. We have we
56:40were brought up in insecure families
56:43where parents were not present and so
56:44you kind of develop this anxious
56:47relationship where you very quickly form
56:49soul ties with people around you and
56:51then if that is someone who has very
56:53toxic behavior then you are attached and
56:55is this constant needing validation from
56:59someone who doesn't want to give you
57:02what you're looking for and so you form
57:03soul ties quickly. Other personality
57:06types and this is a lot about how we are
57:08brought up as children. Some of us we
57:10have very cold families and stuff where
57:13we might not have had as much kind of
57:15love from our father, love from our
57:16mother. And so we have this very cold
57:18relationship where no soul ties even
57:20with our wife.
57:22>> The soul tie doesn't connect because
57:24we're not used to giving of oursel.
57:26>> Mh.
57:27>> And so all these different kind of
57:28dynamics in relationship spec
57:31specifically,
57:32>> they're all broken in the same name, in
57:35the same way.
57:36um repentance of immorality and sin,
57:40>> releasing forgiveness to whoever might
57:42have taken advantage of you or abused
57:44you.
57:45>> And then I used to have people when I go
57:48through like a one-on-one deliverance
57:49with people, I would tell them, hey, as
57:52we prayed now, is God highlighting some
57:54specific people? Because some people
57:56like I have over hundred people. I can't
57:58write down all their names.
58:00>> God will highlight few that had a very
58:02specific impact on your identity. write
58:05down their names on this sheet and then
58:07we're going to pray. Cut the soul tie
58:09and tear the paper kind of a thing. Just
58:11a practice. It's nothing specifically
58:14spiritual. It's just a practice to help
58:15you kind of cut that and then
58:17spiritually
58:18>> you you renounce it and then you pray
58:20deliverance and then that those
58:23practices um is what I it's closing the
58:26door.
58:26>> Can people develop soul ties with
58:28spiritual leaders?
58:29>> Yes, people can develop soul ties with
58:31spiritual leaders. In fact, I believe
58:33that's how a lot of cult leaders control
58:38people in almost a brainwashed kind of a
58:41way where they have a soul tie to the
58:42leader through spiritual submission.
58:45>> That's why as pastors and stuff, it's so
58:48important to to live a righteous life to
58:52to not take advantage of people and
58:54stuff because I believe that submission
58:56to a spiritual leader
58:58>> leads to a soul tie
58:59>> 100%.
59:02When it comes to deliverance, I know
59:04that very common thing that is not
59:09clearly mentioned in the Bible, but it
59:10seems that every deliverance case and
59:13deliverance minister deals with it is
59:15when people have spirit spouses.
59:17>> What are those? And uh what are the
59:19signs that a person has a spirit spouse
59:21and how do they get one?
59:22>> Yeah, spirit spouses are um incubus
59:26sakubus. It's like a spiritual husband
59:29or a spiritual wife. Most of the time
59:33these enter into your life before you
59:37got married, sometimes after too. But a
59:40spirit spouse is pretty much when demons
59:43start tormenting you in your dreams. I I
59:46experienced that in my early life. I
59:49think the spirit of lust that I got
59:51delivered from, it was also a spirit
59:53spouse. So is it the same demon or the
59:56same spouse that keeps showing up or the
59:58same a female or a male keep showing up
1:00:00or a different one taking
1:00:01>> so different? So I think it's different
1:00:03for sometimes it's the same face but
1:00:07most of the time it's different faces
1:00:10>> and uh different kind of faces for many
1:00:13they don't even see the face of the
1:00:15person but they can just feel that they
1:00:17are being abused or taken advantage of
1:00:21from someone more powerful than them and
1:00:23they feel uh subjected to that power in
1:00:27their dreams. For women, that many times
1:00:30come down to a power dynamic where
1:00:32you're you're a victim of abuse in the
1:00:35dream. Some someone is taking advantage
1:00:37of you. For men, it seems to be the
1:00:40other way where you're taking advantage
1:00:42of a woman in the dream and and you feel
1:00:45like you're you are you are in a power
1:00:48position and you can do whatever you
1:00:50want. This is many times how these uh
1:00:52spirit spouses operate in your dreams.
1:00:55And what they want is they want to have
1:00:57a marital relationship with you
1:01:00spiritually speaking. When you get
1:01:02married after that, the spirit spouse
1:01:05that you're struggling with, let's say
1:01:06you're a man, you get married to your
1:01:08wife and you have these dreams. You're
1:01:09sleeping with a woman in your dreams.
1:01:11>> It will cause you to not have a pure
1:01:14affection for your wife because it's
1:01:16like you're you're kind of cheating. But
1:01:18in your dreams and it's my dreams, it's
1:01:21okay. Our dreams I think is many times
1:01:24I'm not saying that all dreams are
1:01:25always spiritual but our dreams is a
1:01:27very good indicator of our spiritual
1:01:29health and spiritual life.
1:01:31>> And so you're having those kind of
1:01:32things.
1:01:33>> We have many times cases where a spirit
1:01:35spouse
1:01:36>> tormenting a man. So he's having dreams
1:01:38where he's sleeping with a girl,
1:01:40different girls, but he can sense it's
1:01:42kind of like the same person most of the
1:01:44time. And then the wife is fighting in
1:01:47her dreams with a woman and and it's the
1:01:50same spirit spouse tormenting both
1:01:52people. Her trying to push her away by
1:01:54fighting her and him trying to seduce
1:01:56him to to only be with her and not to be
1:01:59involved with her physic with his
1:02:01physical spouse.
1:02:02>> Are they sometimes responsible for
1:02:03baroness?
1:02:04>> Yes, I believe so. I think that for
1:02:08women a lot of the frankly not that we
1:02:12base our data off of the confession of
1:02:14demons not at all because they are liars
1:02:16you know
1:02:17>> but a lot of the time they seem to
1:02:19suggest hey we have kept her barren we
1:02:22we don't want her to have children in
1:02:24the physical and then after the
1:02:26deliverance and that spirit husband is
1:02:28cast out they will confess yeah I had
1:02:30PCOS yes I had fibers I had ovarian cyst
1:02:33and all these kind of things we were
1:02:34bearing we've been trying
1:02:35>> they go back. They come back with
1:02:36testimonies a year later. Hey, here is
1:02:38our baby. After the deliverance, we were
1:02:40able to have children.
1:02:42>> What authority can demons have over
1:02:44places? You mentioned a little bit about
1:02:46the anointing the pillow [clears throat]
1:02:48>> when a crime or witchcraft is done in a
1:02:51house. Can demons possess that place or
1:02:53mark that place and people moving in
1:02:56there now are coming under influence of
1:02:58demons?
1:02:59>> Yes, I believe that 100%.
1:03:02Just like the burning bush was holy
1:03:04ground and God told Moses to take his
1:03:07sandals off, so there's unholy ground
1:03:10where the presence of demons have been.
1:03:12For example, there's been witchcraft
1:03:15practices there. We see it all the time
1:03:17in Hollywood depictions now where they
1:03:19do the pentagrams in the, you know, up
1:03:21in the house or in the basement and
1:03:23stuff. All these kind of witchcraft
1:03:25rituals or crime, bloodshed, all these
1:03:28kind of things defiles a place where
1:03:31that will have demons roaming in that
1:03:35area. I don't believe that a demon can
1:03:38inhabit inanimate objects, but they can
1:03:42be on and around those because I don't
1:03:45know how a demon would benefit from
1:03:46being inside an object. But there's
1:03:48curses [clears throat] just like a
1:03:49blessing from the apostles was placed on
1:03:51someone and they received healing or the
1:03:53shadow and so so there can be cursed and
1:03:56demonic uh presence like poltergeists
1:03:59and other things that we
1:04:00>> So the haunted houses would that fall
1:04:01under that category.
1:04:03>> Yeah. So the haunted houses would fall
1:04:06under a category of um
1:04:08>> because a lot of times in those places
1:04:10the demons were it's obvious something
1:04:12is happening in those places. Yeah. you
1:04:15know, I mean, now they have a lot of uh
1:04:17documentations of people who investigate
1:04:19that and um and of course people are
1:04:21afraid to live in those places and um
1:04:23and if you backtrack, you see sometimes
1:04:25there's a lot of activity in some places
1:04:27we don't know what activity was done,
1:04:29why there was certain things and it
1:04:30doesn't seem like it it's just
1:04:32emotional.
1:04:32>> Yeah. No, no, no. Absolutely. There is
1:04:35demonic infestation. We we normally
1:04:37categorize it as like infestation where
1:04:39demons are are in that area. Um um many
1:04:45times we find out especially if like
1:04:48someone committed a suicide in the house
1:04:50or things terrible things happened that
1:04:53demons that were around when those
1:04:56crimes or those acts happened because
1:04:58like someone commits suicide that's
1:05:00demonic. There's a spirit of death there
1:05:01that wants you to fulfill that. And that
1:05:03spirit of death will continue to dwell
1:05:06there because it that definement, that
1:05:08sin, that
1:05:09>> that unholy act continues to attract
1:05:12those demons back there. And yeah, I
1:05:15believe that prayer and applying the the
1:05:20oil, you know, anointing oil will break
1:05:22those things. And sometimes
1:05:25you kind of not that you in a literal
1:05:28sense, yeah, maybe in a literal sense
1:05:30you cast the demons out of the house,
1:05:32but it's not like you deliver the house
1:05:34per se, but you sanctify that place. You
1:05:37reordain that place as holy ground as an
1:05:39altar for God and the demonic presence
1:05:41in those rooms, in those places has to
1:05:44go.
1:05:45>> As we approach a little bit more of the
1:05:47topic of deliverance,
1:05:49how effective is self- deliverance?
1:05:52Yeah, I think self deliverance is is
1:05:54quite effective. I used to say that if
1:05:56my wife wears a dress um she can put on
1:05:59her whole dress by herself except this
1:06:01except the zipper at the back. So I have
1:06:03to help her to sip that 1%. Self-d
1:06:06deliverance works
1:06:09>> if it depends on the heart posture
1:06:12behind it. I believe for example for me
1:06:16self- deliverance would have not worked
1:06:19because the reason I would have wanted
1:06:21self- deliverance is so that I would not
1:06:23be exposed I wanted to keep my secrets
1:06:27to myself but still be delivered from
1:06:30them when your heart is in that if your
1:06:33heart posture is that way it seems to be
1:06:35from a practical point of view most of
1:06:37the time self- deliverance does not work
1:06:41uh because your heart is to like keep
1:06:42your seat secrets.
1:06:44>> But when you're open and transparent and
1:06:46you're like, "Hey, whatever happens, uh,
1:06:48then it seems like self deliverance
1:06:49works, which like the easier things kind
1:06:52of like when you're under affliction,
1:06:54self deliverance can can solve that. But
1:06:56when you've got deeper things,
1:06:58>> I would say involve someone else that
1:07:00can help you go all the way."
1:07:02>> Mhm. Yeah. I mean, sometimes even, you
1:07:04know, heart surgeons, they don't perform
1:07:06their own heart surgeries, you know,
1:07:08they get other people's help. And and I
1:07:10think the pride aspect of it, you know,
1:07:14it takes a lot of humility
1:07:16>> to receive not just deliverance to
1:07:18receive anything from God. And I think
1:07:19sometimes God is far more interested in
1:07:21>> the people we become in the process and
1:07:23then afterwards because when people go
1:07:25through deliverance there
1:07:26>> there seems to be a bit of a more
1:07:28compassion that exists within them.
1:07:30There's a sense [clears throat] of
1:07:32>> um humility, a meekness that hey I I
1:07:35don't have it all together. God has been
1:07:37so merciful and gracious to me. And so,
1:07:39uh, when you bypass that and you get
1:07:42everything personally from the Lord, it
1:07:44actually could
1:07:45>> encourage that pride like look at I just
1:07:48threw my prayer, through my fast, look
1:07:49what I did. Look at how righteous I am
1:07:51versus hey, I needed help. I needed
1:07:53somebody to come alongside and help me.
1:07:55>> Um, one of the common u approaches to
1:07:58deliverance is, you know, and this was
1:08:00alluded about manifestation, demons
1:08:02manifesting. quite a few times during
1:08:04the last hour we've addressed this is
1:08:06what demons said.
1:08:07>> This is what demons said. This is what I
1:08:09h how I found out about ABCD.
1:08:13[sighs]
1:08:14>> Why do you talk to demons? [laughter]
1:08:17[gasps]
1:08:17>> Yeah. I think [snorts] um a lot of man a
1:08:22lot of people that that's that's one of
1:08:24the big criticism that we receive I
1:08:26think is like hey you guys shouldn't
1:08:28talk to him and Jesus just told the
1:08:29demons to be quiet and rebuked them and
1:08:31they came out
1:08:32>> and it's like yeah
1:08:34>> for for 20% of the time Jesus rebuked
1:08:37them
1:08:37>> the difference between talking and and
1:08:39whatever
1:08:40>> and interrogating yeah and so we
1:08:42interrogate him we don't conversate with
1:08:44them in fact there is a reason why Paul
1:08:46did not allow the spirit spirit of
1:08:48divination to praise him. I believe when
1:08:51you're looking for praise and you begin
1:08:52to accept the praise from demons, that's
1:08:54a that's a dangerous place because
1:08:56demons are specialists in getting your
1:08:59flesh, you know, getting
1:09:01>> So, I've had it many times. I've heard
1:09:03ministers do it and I myself have many
1:09:05times been tempted during a deliverance.
1:09:07The demons are like, "Aha, there's fire
1:09:09in your eyes. You are you have so much
1:09:12fire." Uhhuh. What else do you see in
1:09:14me? Uhhuh. There's the light of God.
1:09:16What else? very dangerous because that
1:09:18that of course first of all is not
1:09:20healthy for the person secondly it's not
1:09:22healthy for you as a minister but Jesus
1:09:25exercised his authority over legion by
1:09:27interrogating saying
1:09:29>> h what is your name and the demon h
1:09:32responded we are legion for we are many
1:09:34I believe when demons respond they are
1:09:36finding that they are accepting your
1:09:39authority over them and we have just
1:09:41found out that when demons speak out it
1:09:44accelerates the deliverance process
1:09:46Sometimes we have a stiff opposition.
1:09:48I'm praying for someone and and they're
1:09:50like
1:09:50>> and nothing [snorts] is happening.
1:09:52There's not much progress and I'm like,
1:09:53"Okay, who are you in this body?"
1:09:55>> The moment and the demons speak out
1:09:58thinking that they're boasting. Oh,
1:09:59we're so powerful. We're this, we're
1:10:01that. Whereas the moment they speak out,
1:10:03they have actually accepted that you
1:10:05have authority over them. And so they're
1:10:08almost like throwing little tantrums
1:10:09there. And it doesn't matter how long it
1:10:11takes, they're going to have to come to
1:10:12the point of deliverance. And so Jesus
1:10:15did it, but Jesus didn't conversate for
1:10:18long periods. He he got to the root
1:10:20cause. I believe it revealed the root
1:10:23cause like how many was in there? How
1:10:25did they enter? Another time he asked
1:10:27>> uh the father
1:10:29>> uh of of the boy who was falling in the
1:10:30fire in the water. How long has this
1:10:32been here? And so he was
1:10:34>> determining that that is a generational
1:10:36thing since birth. He didn't commit a
1:10:38sin and then it started or anything
1:10:39along those things. So um I believe that
1:10:42we interrogate demons to uh accelerate
1:10:45the freedom process to distinguish open
1:10:47doors
1:10:48>> h and to revoke legal rights and um we
1:10:51don't entertain them. We don't talk to
1:10:53them for lengthy processes. Um
1:10:56>> well we should just trust the Holy
1:10:58Spirit and demons are all lying spirits.
1:11:01>> Yeah.
1:11:01>> But why is it in the gospels we don't
1:11:03see one thing that they lied about?
1:11:05>> Yeah. Exactly. I think
1:11:08>> when they said actually they were more
1:11:09accurate about Jesus's nature than the
1:11:11Pharisees than the people. Yeah.
1:11:12>> Yeah. So, so why is that?
1:11:15>> I think the demons when they are
1:11:17standing under the authority of God and
1:11:19they have been exposed by the light of
1:11:21God, they cannot continue to throw lies.
1:11:24They can try a little bit to like oh hey
1:11:26they're free now, but ultimately they
1:11:29have to confess because they know they
1:11:32know the reality. Demons are not they
1:11:34know who God is. They know Jesus. They
1:11:36know all this. They know, they've seen
1:11:37him, they've been around. And so when
1:11:39they recognize the authority, they are
1:11:41forced by the power of God to confess
1:11:44>> and that brings freedom. But when
1:11:46>> it's not that they can never lie,
1:11:49>> deliverance. It's it's more that I think
1:11:52and correct me if I am wrong that a lot
1:11:55of times their confession can be
1:11:57incomplete.
1:11:58>> Yeah.
1:11:58>> Where they would still hide few more
1:12:00behind or like say that hey I'm free
1:12:03when in reality they're not.
1:12:04>> Yeah. 100%. And so they can kind of try
1:12:06to hide a few things. But yeah, when
1:12:08they stand before God, they confess and
1:12:11that accelerates their freedom. And we
1:12:14we Yeah, it brings freedom. Now, when
1:12:17they're not manifesting, they're not
1:12:19being exposed by the light of God. Yeah.
1:12:21They're literally liars.
1:12:23>> They would lie to you and say, "We're
1:12:25not here." And then after, you know,
1:12:27they will always just try to lie and
1:12:29like, "Hey, you know, it it's easy to
1:12:31repent. Just sin now. It's easy to
1:12:33repent." And then after you fall into
1:12:34sin, they would lie and say, "Hey, it's
1:12:37hard to repent. Don't don't." So, you
1:12:38know, all these constant lies, every
1:12:41they're just constantly trying to lie.
1:12:43>> But when they're exposed, they stand
1:12:44before God. They they stand on before
1:12:47the judgment of God and they they are
1:12:49forced to confess.
1:12:50>> Okay, I'm sold. We can interrogate
1:12:52demons. Why put the camera on people?
1:12:55>> Oh, yeah. That's that's a good one. Uh
1:12:57the reason why we put a camera is not to
1:13:01embarrass the person. Um, in fact, if
1:13:04there is a camera there and the person
1:13:06afterwards comes like, "Hey, I'm not
1:13:08comfortable. Can can we we we respect
1:13:11that. We're we're not like, "No, you got
1:13:13to be in the camera or else your
1:13:14deliverance is not true." All those
1:13:16things are fine. But I believe if
1:13:18Matthew when he was walking around with
1:13:19Jesus, if there was Instagram, he would
1:13:22have live streamed a lot of these
1:13:23miracles, if he could have, but he wrote
1:13:25it down instead. All the deliverances
1:13:27that Jesus performed were in public.
1:13:29There was there was not a single one
1:13:31without witnesses. If there was no
1:13:33witnesses, it wouldn't have been written
1:13:34of in the Bible. And so he didn't
1:13:36>> in one sense the gospel serve as the
1:13:38camera to generations not being there.
1:13:41Yeah.
1:13:41>> And the fact that the crowd was able to
1:13:43witness it all the camera does during
1:13:45the service is just allows what's
1:13:47happening in the front to be viewed by
1:13:48people in the back.
1:13:49>> Yeah. Exactly. And I mean it it's Yeah.
1:13:53Exactly. And so if people who are
1:13:54ministering deliverance in their church
1:13:55and stuff, they're like, "Hey, the
1:13:56camera is too much. We're we're not
1:13:58gonna point finger and say, "Hey, you
1:14:00got it." No, absolutely not. We consider
1:14:02ourselves a little bit also as like for
1:14:04forerunners. Like let people see how
1:14:06deliverance can look like. Let people
1:14:08see that, hey, someone is in bondage and
1:14:11they receive freedom and you can be set
1:14:13free from these things that normally are
1:14:16not talked about in churches. Nobody's
1:14:18going to go up to a church and say,
1:14:19"Hey, I'm a porn addict. Good to see you
1:14:21again." You don't do that. It's it's
1:14:23things of shame. But when deliverance
1:14:26comes forth, we don't celebrate the
1:14:28darkness. We don't celebrate the shame.
1:14:30We celebrate the light, the testimony,
1:14:32and the freedom that comes from it. And
1:14:34so it's it serves a purpose to disgrace
1:14:36the devil and put him to shame, not the
1:14:38people.
1:14:38>> Your personal opinion, where the demons
1:14:40come from?
1:14:41>> Oh, my personal opinion on on that is
1:14:43that they are the disembodied spirit of
1:14:45the Nephilim. uh you know the sons of
1:14:47God, the watchers descended, saw the
1:14:49women of men, slept with them, made
1:14:51covenants with them
1:14:53>> and then the women gave birth and they
1:14:55got these nephilim, these giants and
1:14:57these giants got wiped out in the flood
1:15:00and then Joshua also wiped the some of
1:15:03the additional offspring after that. But
1:15:05those that died uh they were an
1:15:08abomination. They were not from uh
1:15:11mankind only. It was half angelic,
1:15:13[clears throat] half human. And so their
1:15:15souls were not permitted into afterlife.
1:15:17So they roam the earth. These unclean
1:15:19spirits, the disembodied spirits, and
1:15:21these are the ones that inhabit people.
1:15:24>> Do you think there's a lot of them?
1:15:26>> Yeah, I think there's a lot of demons.
1:15:28>> Do you think there was a lot of the
1:15:29Nephilims?
1:15:30>> Yeah, I believe so. Um, yeah, I believe
1:15:34so.
1:15:34>> What about the principalities?
1:15:36>> Principalities?
1:15:37>> Where did they come from?
1:15:38>> Yeah, principalities.
1:15:40>> They're not demons.
1:15:41>> They're not demons. What is the
1:15:42difference between what are the
1:15:44hierarchy
1:15:45>> of the spiritual world? At least from
1:15:47what we know in the scriptures.
1:15:48>> Yeah. From what we know in the
1:15:49scripture, I believe that there's about
1:15:51three categories of different malevolent
1:15:54spirits. We've got the watchers, the
1:15:55sons of God. They rebelled. They were
1:15:57angels. They rebelled against God. They
1:15:59came down. And so also the
1:16:00principalities. They were
1:16:03>> originally created by God to be his
1:16:07subordinates to run the world. They were
1:16:10given different territories at the at
1:16:11Genesis 11 at the at the Tower of Babel.
1:16:14>> And they also rebelled against God. They
1:16:17they didn't want to uh obey God. So they
1:16:20wanted the worship of man. They wanted
1:16:22to enforce their own laws and all this
1:16:24stuff. And so God judged that these
1:16:26principalities
1:16:27>> and said you will be destroyed like
1:16:29mankind.
1:16:31>> And these principalities today, they
1:16:33still operate um according to what I
1:16:36believe they operate in the second
1:16:38heaven. and they still enforce
1:16:40ideologies. They still bring about mass
1:16:43uh doctrines, deceptions and all these
1:16:47kind of things. I believe these
1:16:48principalities have names such as
1:16:50Moolok, Baal, Jezebel, these kind of
1:16:53demon gods that have been seen many
1:16:56times before. So like the prince of
1:16:58Persia and the story of
1:16:59>> the prince of Persia and and the prince
1:17:01of all these different ones. They are
1:17:02all principalities or princes
1:17:05>> h that were ruling the different
1:17:07territories and they're still there
1:17:08today
1:17:09>> but their time is coming to an end. They
1:17:12know that their time is up and we as a
1:17:14church we're not called necessarily to
1:17:16go and and pull them down from the
1:17:19second heaven because it's actually for
1:17:21now their legal right to be there.
1:17:24That's where they are left for now. Even
1:17:26though the Bible says Jesus disarmed
1:17:27them,
1:17:28>> he disarmed them legally, but they're
1:17:30still waiting final destruction and
1:17:32judgment. So, they're still operating in
1:17:33the second heaven.
1:17:35>> And as church, uh, we are not called to
1:17:37go and like wage war against the
1:17:39principalities of the sky and try to
1:17:41pull them down because that's their
1:17:42legal right. How we wage war against
1:17:44them is we wage war against the
1:17:46ideologies in the hearts of people by
1:17:48preaching the gospel, discipling people,
1:17:51helping people to pursue holiness,
1:17:53repentance, deliverance and all those
1:17:55things. And so when we disarm them
1:17:58>> or when we uh do what Jesus has called
1:18:00us to do, we remove their foothold here
1:18:02on earth.
1:18:03>> And so that's how their powers collapse.
1:18:05>> So if intercession group is climbing the
1:18:08high mountain of their city,
1:18:09>> Yeah. to close the spiritual borders and
1:18:12bring down the principalities. You would
1:18:14tell them to
1:18:15>> I would tell them change their strategy.
1:18:16>> Yeah. Make better use of your time. I
1:18:19believe that there has been
1:18:21>> you would just insult them like you're
1:18:23just saying they don't have power.
1:18:24>> I know. Yeah. Exactly. And so I think
1:18:27the people people of God um it's a waste
1:18:31of time to to wage war against them. I'm
1:18:34not saying that you can't pray for a
1:18:36city. I'm not saying that you can't. I
1:18:38mean, I've done those things and I think
1:18:39it can be effective where like our
1:18:41church marched around like a strip club
1:18:43and stuff and you know [laughter]
1:18:45gallons of oil.
1:18:47>> Yeah. And you know, we see the people of
1:18:49Israel doing that around Jericho, but we
1:18:51don't see them trying to wage war
1:18:52against the principality over Jericho.
1:18:55They were just praying and interceding
1:18:57for God's will to be done over there and
1:18:58for for anything not from God to be
1:19:00broken
1:19:01>> in silence.
1:19:02>> In silence. Yeah. Exactly. M
1:19:05>> and and so yeah, I think it's better for
1:19:07us as people of God to wage war here
1:19:09[snorts] on earth. This is our domain.
1:19:11And to push them out from here,
1:19:13>> not to push them out from there, push
1:19:15them out from earth by preaching the
1:19:18truth. The truth will set people free.
1:19:21Casting out their minion demons. So
1:19:23that's something that like
1:19:24>> you know a lot of demons when we cast
1:19:26them out, they're like, "Hey, I'm
1:19:27Jezebel. I'm this." So like, are you
1:19:29casting out the Jezebel mentioned in the
1:19:32book of Revelation? No. It's an unclean
1:19:34spirit that takes on the character, the
1:19:36nature of those principalities like a
1:19:38minion demon.
1:19:40>> And so um
1:19:41>> so they pretty much can run their agenda
1:19:43through the demons underground.
1:19:45>> So when we cast them out um and
1:19:47sometimes they could even take the name
1:19:49of a principality, they could say, "I am
1:19:51principality."
1:19:52>> Yes. Exactly. And so I mean I we cast
1:19:54Baal and Lucifer and Leviathan and
1:19:57Jezebel all the time out of people. It
1:19:59doesn't mean that like the principality
1:20:01of Baal is cast out of this one person.
1:20:04It's a minion demon that takes on the
1:20:08nature and the character and the values
1:20:10of that principality. And so many times
1:20:13the names of demons represents their
1:20:15nature and their character. And so so um
1:20:19that's our assignment as believers to
1:20:22do.
1:20:22>> You've been doing deliverance for a
1:20:24while, for a long time. And um do you
1:20:26get attacked? the demons kind of fight
1:20:28back afterwards to you know how it works
1:20:31in boxing. You throw a punch, you
1:20:33receive you back. How does that work?
1:20:35>> Yeah. So, when it comes to the ministry
1:20:37of deliverance,
1:20:39I don't believe that we are
1:20:45victims of demonic attack just because
1:20:48we're casting out demons. I think if we
1:20:50live in obedience to God's word, now if
1:20:53we live outside of God's word, we're
1:20:55living in sin and stuff, that's a
1:20:57different story. But if we're living
1:20:58under the grace of God, in obedience to
1:21:00God's word, living to the best of our
1:21:02capacity to pursue holiness, to pursue
1:21:05intimacy with Jesus, there is no reason
1:21:07to fear like a demonic attack like, oh,
1:21:10you know, we cast out demons, now
1:21:12they're coming for us and stuff like
1:21:13that. I don't they try but that's where
1:21:15the blood of Jesus the kind of immune
1:21:17system our spiritual immune system
1:21:19protects from all that. Uh however, I
1:21:23think that there is this component of
1:21:25when you minister a lot, there are
1:21:27seasons in your life where you're
1:21:29actually
1:21:30uh kind of lowering your guard a little
1:21:32bit.
1:21:33>> And I think that temptation can come and
1:21:36then you know, you give space for
1:21:37temptation, then the next thing comes
1:21:39and stuff. But generally, you're living
1:21:41a life, you're pursuing Jesus, there's
1:21:42nothing to fear. Like
1:21:45>> like people say, "Oh, you know, I think
1:21:46someone is casting a spell on us." Bro,
1:21:48they're they're casting pastor Vlad,
1:21:50they're casting spells on you all the
1:21:51time. There's no chance that they're not
1:21:53doing that. But when you live in
1:21:55obedience to God's word, those things
1:21:57fall off like like water off a goose.
1:21:59You don't even know about it because
1:22:01Holy Spirit is taking care of that.
1:22:03>> Yeah. I think a lot of times we could be
1:22:05like Elijah who had a battle more with
1:22:08the fatigue.
1:22:09>> Yeah.
1:22:10>> But that was also bit of physical and
1:22:12he's kind of getting tired of all of
1:22:14that stuff. And then you know the
1:22:16messenger from Jezebel is the one that
1:22:17kind of triggered everything and he was
1:22:19afraid um
1:22:20>> and [clears throat] so now we're coming
1:22:22a little bit closer to um
1:22:24>> not only the ministry of deliverance and
1:22:26and how that is being done but um in
1:22:30next year but by the time this is going
1:22:32to be released you're going to be in a
1:22:33different city um in Seattle area.
1:22:36You're moving out of Hungary Jan um from
1:22:39here launching a hungry Jan. Yeah. Uh
1:22:41we're going to be starting a deliverance
1:22:43services in the Seattle area once a
1:22:45month, last Sunday of every month. Tell
1:22:47us a little bit about what happened. Are
1:22:49you just having a problem with Vlad and
1:22:51he's kicking you out? [laughter]
1:22:53>> Um what what is really the reason why
1:22:56you are moving or there's a hidden
1:22:58offense that is happening? What what is
1:23:00really taking place with Rickard now?
1:23:01More on the personal level with the
1:23:03calling and and what's happening there
1:23:05in
1:23:05>> Ron. I think that Hungry Jen has gone
1:23:09through like the the leadership and
1:23:12everything has in the last years have
1:23:14gone through a lot of change of heart
1:23:16posture and stuff. And I believe that
1:23:19God is taking Hungry Jen to the next
1:23:22level and so we're part of that. We're
1:23:25getting sent to Reon to go and and plant
1:23:28a hunger yen church. It's not out of
1:23:30offense. We were at a leadership retreat
1:23:32and pastor Vlad you asked me, "Hey, we
1:23:35want to present something to you. Pray
1:23:37about this." And so, everyone hears God
1:23:39differently. Some people hear, see,
1:23:43dream, feel, think. For me, God, I just
1:23:47know in my heart of hearts. I just feel
1:23:50it immed. I know this is from God. And
1:23:53when you said it, pastor, at that
1:23:54retreat, you say, "Hey, we're looking at
1:23:56somewhere in the southern Seattle. We
1:23:58need more more campuses over we have
1:24:00need more hands on deck. Immediately in
1:24:03my spirit it was just yes and amen.
1:24:05>> And I knew that this was the right time.
1:24:08But to fulfill all righteousness I went
1:24:10on a three-day fast and you know as my
1:24:13wife also because of course I can't go
1:24:15without my wife and I know my wife
1:24:18really loves Tri Cities. So I was kind
1:24:20of like it was my fleece. My wife was my
1:24:23fleas. If my wife agrees to this it's
1:24:26100% from the Lord. And so I presented
1:24:28it to her and she's like, "Are you
1:24:30serious right now?" And I said, "Yeah,
1:24:32I'm serious. Pray about it." She's like,
1:24:34"Okay, I I I don't I don't think so, but
1:24:37I'll pray." Three-day fast goes on. She
1:24:40comes back. She's like, "Let's do this."
1:24:41I'm like, "What?" Okay, this is from
1:24:44God. I knew, of course, in my heart,
1:24:46>> she shared it as well. And then, you
1:24:48know, I I reached out to you and said,
1:24:49"Hey, I I I feel from the Lord, yes and
1:24:52amen to what you have said, pastor." And
1:24:55suddenly you're like, "Oh yeah, where
1:24:57are you thinking?" And I said, "I'm not
1:24:59sure." You said, "What about Renton?"
1:25:02And then I realized, "Yeah, that is
1:25:04actually where we have been praying
1:25:05around the southern Renton Kent Auburn
1:25:08area."
1:25:09>> And then you said, "Hey, there's a
1:25:10church there that is going to be
1:25:12available for us to rent."
1:25:14>> And the rest is history. Here we are.
1:25:17>> We had a race to deliver Deliverance
1:25:19Conference. Yeah. Yeah. It was an
1:25:21amazing amazing event where Holy Spirit
1:25:24just moved. I mean Halloween weekend,
1:25:26Tacoma, Washington. It doesn't get
1:25:27better than that. It was definitely
1:25:30>> it was definitely a grace of God on that
1:25:32event.
1:25:32>> Yeah.
1:25:33>> And then um you already had your first
1:25:35interest meeting.
1:25:36>> Um and so starting February, the last
1:25:39Sunday of February, 6:00, I believe.
1:25:42>> Yeah. 6:00. It's a Sunday night,
1:25:44February 22,
1:25:45>> and we're going to have our very first
1:25:47revival night. there will be deliverance
1:25:49there and everything. So people can sign
1:25:51up for deliverance to come out
1:25:52>> because we've been having deliverance
1:25:53services here on the last Saturday of
1:25:55every month, but now they're that
1:25:57they're going to be moved to last Sunday
1:25:58of every month here in Tri Cities
1:26:01>> as well as rent in uh Seattle area. So
1:26:05most people will be able to get there I
1:26:07think a lot easier. And uh for those
1:26:09people who live in those areas or know
1:26:11somebody who lives in those areas, you
1:26:13know, hungrijen rent.com is the place
1:26:16where they could go or you can just
1:26:17follow Pastor Rickard and then he'll be
1:26:19posting as well. And then I believe
1:26:21there's going to be a deliverance school
1:26:22that's that's going to be happening on
1:26:24that side probably right before the race
1:26:26to deliver and then another race to
1:26:27deliver conference on the Halloween
1:26:29weekend.
1:26:29>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm super excited. I I'm
1:26:33just gonna say it that I believe that
1:26:35God is gonna turn this state of
1:26:38Washington around.
1:26:40>> The state of Washington is coming back
1:26:41to Jesus. And I believe there will be a
1:26:43a a wave of revival that that comes out
1:26:46of these wells that has been dug in this
1:26:49state. And so I'm so grateful to God to
1:26:52to be part of it. And and it's going to
1:26:54be it's gonna be incredible.
1:26:56>> We're going right in there. I'm I'm I'm
1:26:58I'm ready to go in and just stir the pot
1:27:00over there and just speak the truth and
1:27:03you know [laughter]
1:27:04>> that's good. If people want to find out
1:27:06more about your ministry, about the
1:27:08campus, um you know, we also have
1:27:11digital deliverance, deliverance
1:27:13one-on-one where people can sign up to
1:27:14receive deliverance oneonone. If they
1:27:16want to be trained also in deliverance,
1:27:18where can they get all of that
1:27:19information?
1:27:20>> Yeah, so I have multiple ecourses about
1:27:22ministry of deliverance. You can find it
1:27:24on hungrijen.com/deliverance.
1:27:26Um, I release a lot of content as well
1:27:29about deliverance. It's what I I just I
1:27:32can't get away from it. I just love all
1:27:33the topics of deliverance. [laughter]
1:27:35So, I'm constantly producing and trying
1:27:37to train people in the ministry of
1:27:39deliverance. You can follow me online,
1:27:41Rick Hart, on all platforms and and uh
1:27:45hungrijen.com/deliverance
1:27:46for all our digital deliverance
1:27:48oneonone. All our conferences and all
1:27:50the registrations and everything are
1:27:52right there. Well, thank you so much for
1:27:55sharing your heart and uh and from a
1:27:59personal level, thank you so much for
1:28:00the last last few years have been
1:28:02definitely, you know, when you first
1:28:04came here from uh from Sweden and joined
1:28:07our team and then seeing you um grow um
1:28:10and then hitting a little a rough patch
1:28:13where the Lord was doing a very deep
1:28:15work inside of your heart and because
1:28:17you're very dynamic and you have a very
1:28:19strong personality um and it was a very
1:28:22good challenge for me as well. A lot of
1:28:24prayer, very uh quite few of leaning
1:28:26into awkward conversations
1:28:28>> and uh but seeing you grow ju just even
1:28:31in the last 12 months, more than 12
1:28:33months has been has been phenomenal. And
1:28:36so when we had that retreat and
1:28:39>> um interestingly when we went into into
1:28:41that retreat that was not on my mind but
1:28:43the Bible says open your mouth and he
1:28:45will feel it. I knew at that moment that
1:28:48something has to like it was weird. I
1:28:51call it strangely warm feeling that
1:28:53comes over here and I
1:28:56>> I am very careful because I do know when
1:28:58I throw an idea and a seed sometimes
1:29:00when that germinates you know like you
1:29:02can't play with people's destinies like
1:29:03that but when you're in the room of
1:29:05people that are you know also connected
1:29:07to the Holy Spirit they can discern and
1:29:09sometimes they can stop and say hey this
1:29:11is not the right path and so and I
1:29:13remember as I am even I was speaking
1:29:15towards you the back my mind was saying
1:29:18whoa whoa whoa that was not [laughter]
1:29:20you already made a decision. We're not
1:29:21launching a campus next year. This is
1:29:23>> and and my spirit and I'm I almost felt
1:29:26a prophetic utterance coming out of my
1:29:28spirit and I knew something was also,
1:29:31you know, burning inside of your spirit.
1:29:33>> Yeah.
1:29:33>> And next thing that happens just one
1:29:35thing leads to another. And I really
1:29:36sense that
1:29:37>> this is going to be an answer to the cry
1:29:39of people in that area. This is not, you
1:29:42know, we're not launching campus because
1:29:43we have nothing else to do. There's
1:29:44going to be a an answer to the cry of
1:29:47people. and you're being sent like Moses
1:29:50to be God's answer because God heard the
1:29:54cry of his people.
1:29:55>> Amen.
1:29:55>> So, thank you for doing that. Um, I love
1:29:58you, uh, your wife and your family and I
1:30:01I can't wait to see what the Lord is
1:30:02going to do in years to come and and I
1:30:04think many people will be able to come
1:30:06and visit that campus and see see the
1:30:08glory of God.
1:30:09>> Amen. Thank you, pastor. We love you so
1:30:10much and thank you for this opportunity.
1:30:13I'm I'm looking at the future with such
1:30:15joy and and hope.
1:30:17>> Praise God.
1:30:18>> Amen. Well, everyone, thank you for
1:30:20watching. And right before this, below
1:30:23this video, there's going to be links
1:30:24where you can check out Pastor Rickert's
1:30:26ministry where you can also see his
1:30:28YouTube channel. And you can see also
1:30:30other resources that he offers. And if
1:30:32you are in need of deliverance, um, you
1:30:35know, it's not very hard to get a ticket
1:30:37to Seattle. Just just fly in there. Last
1:30:39Sunday of every single month, but every
1:30:41Sunday there will be deliverance, but
1:30:43mainly last Sunday of every single month
1:30:44is a special deliverance service and you
1:30:46can come and be a part of that. If you
1:30:48are around Reon area and you are looking
1:30:50for a church and maybe you don't have a
1:30:52local church, if you have a local
1:30:53church, keep going to your local church,
1:30:54you can come and visit us, but don't
1:30:56leave your church. But if you don't have
1:30:58a local church, hey, we want to invite
1:30:59you not only to Renton, but there's one
1:31:00in Everett. There's one in Spokane and
1:31:03there's one in a good old town of
1:31:05Kenwick. And so we would love to have
1:31:06you join us where we exist to lead
1:31:09people to encounter God daily.
1:31:10Deliverance is not where everything is
1:31:13about deliverance, but deliverance is a
1:31:15very crucial part of our disciplehip
1:31:17strategy. And so, God bless you. Until
1:31:20next time, let me know in the comments
1:31:21what you learned from this conversation.
1:31:23And we will see you in the next video.
1:31:25Revival is not just a feeling, it's an
1:31:28action. Through our ministry, revival
1:31:30looks like this. Over 280 million views
1:31:34has been reached through our three
1:31:37YouTube channels and over 2 million
1:31:39Bible reading plans have been completed.
1:31:42Missionaries empowered to bring the
1:31:44gospel to the darkest corners of the
1:31:46world. Revival looks like building safe
1:31:48homes in the Amazon, [music]
1:31:50feeding the hungry in Mayar, discipling
1:31:53students worldwide for free. If God is
1:31:56stirring your heart, I want to invite
1:31:57[music] you to partner with us. Let's
1:32:00see souls saved, churches awakened, and
1:32:03nations transformed together. Click on
1:32:06the link below [music] and join the
1:32:08revival movement today by becoming a
1:32:10partner with this ministry.
1:32:12>> [music]

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