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Your Competitor Is Keyword Stuffing Google Business Profiles - Now What? — Transcript

by Edward Sturm · 4,114 words · 588 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00We are doing a shorter episode and this
0:02one is about countering spammy Google
0:04business profile tactics from
0:06competitors with a listener question. Uh
0:10and before I share the question I want
0:11to introduce Claudia. Claudia thank you
0:13so much for coming on the show.
0:15>> Thanks for having me Edward. Appreciate
0:16it.
0:17>> Can you share your experience?
0:20>> Uh yeah I see. Um I'm the founder of
0:22Reputation Arm. We're basically a SAS
0:25platform that helps multilocation
0:26businesses manage their listings, uh,
0:29reviews, uh, solicit reviews. Um, we
0:32manage Google business profiles at scale
0:34for like larger companies that need to
0:37like troubleshoot a lot of complex
0:38issues. I'm also a Google product
0:41expert, so I am very rehearsed in all
0:45things Google business profile.
0:47>> So awesome. Um, great. This is so great.
0:50Yeah. Thank you again for coming on. So
0:52this was a question. This is why we're
0:53making this episode cuz uh a listener uh
0:56emailed me. This somebody named Arthur.
0:59Arthur, thank you for the question.
1:00Thank you for listening. And Arthur, you
1:02said, "I ran into a Google business
1:04profile issue. A competitor is clearly
1:07is clearly using keyword stuffing in
1:09their business name. Google accepts
1:12edits, but they keep reverting the name
1:14back. The redressal form didn't help.
1:17Forum threads didn't help either. What
1:20makes it more obvious? their website,
1:22Instagram, Yelp, Facebook, all use one
1:25clean brand name, but the Google
1:27business profile has services added to
1:29the name. I even discussed this with a
1:32Google product expert who said Google
1:34often allows this and it's basically
1:37ignored. Are there any realistic options
1:39left here? Some people suggest repeated
1:42edits from different accounts, but that
1:44feels sketchy and unreliable. So spammy
1:48keyword stuffing in the business name.
1:52>> So I mean there's a there's a lot we
1:54could say. I'm going to start by saying
1:56you can have a DBA and you can actually
2:00legally have keywords in your name. Now,
2:03I find that it's much harder for Yelp
2:05and Apple to accept like your location
2:08identifier in your name, and they don't
2:10normally approve it, and they don't even
2:12allow you to like the chance to provide
2:14a DBA so that you can get it in there.
2:17So, you will find that most social
2:20handles and other directories are not
2:22going to have those location identifiers
2:24or other keywords in their names. But
2:27with Google, they do allow it and you
2:29can get away with it, especially if you
2:31have a DBA. So, initially, yes, you can
2:34suggest an edit and that might work, but
2:37the business owner will get notified by
2:39email that the name was changed and then
2:41they can edit it and then it it goes
2:43right back. So, it's just I mean I have
2:46a lawyer client that basically has
2:49personal injury lawyer. You have to have
2:51personal injury lawyer in your name
2:52pretty much to compete in that category.
2:54And so I c, you know, we're constantly
2:56switching it back. And there's tools out
2:59there like White Spark that will alert
3:01you for any change and then you can
3:03pretty much revert it back. So, but
3:05there's there's things you could do. Um,
3:08like he mentioned going into the
3:10redressal form. I will say that the
3:12redressal form is just a formality.
3:15You're going to fill that out and you're
3:16going to get a case ID, but it's really
3:18not going anywhere. So you still have to
3:21take that extra step. Go into the forum
3:24and ask a product expert to escalate and
3:28yeah. So I mean I have actually some
3:31some good stats from another PE that uh
3:33shared with me some some good
3:35information. So he does a lot of spam
3:37fighting. I do some spam fighting in the
3:39forums. Um not a huge amount. It's like
3:41not our core business, but um he does a
3:44lot of this. and he said he had 5,666
3:48cases where he he submitted to Google
3:51and was reporting the name as keyword
3:53stuff. Out of that, 4,376
3:57of those cases resulted in keywords
3:59being removed. So, it's a pretty high
4:01success rate that you're going to get it
4:03removed. And 459 resulted in a hard
4:06suspension and 231 resulted in
4:10permanently closed. So 10% little less
4:13than 10% got suspended. And so I I think
4:17what happens is you go into the forum we
4:20we're escalating. Sometimes it's like a
4:22week and sometimes it's like almost a
4:24month where we're actually going to get
4:26a response back from the team. I guess
4:27it depends how busy they are and they
4:30look at different signals and one of
4:32those signals is is this like a um a
4:36bigger entity. So he he also explained
4:39to me that sometimes when you see like
4:42hundreds of locations that all look very
4:45spammy to us because they have like
4:47duplicate information,
4:49um Google looks at that more like well
4:52this could be a franchise or a brand or
4:54an entity and so maybe it's more of a
4:56trust factor than anything. And so that
5:00could hold up the case but you you do
5:02get a ton of success escalating in the
5:04forums. But at the end of the day, if
5:07the business is really legit and it's a
5:09like it's a business and you're just
5:10trying to fight that one location and
5:12and not a huge network, you you're going
5:15to have issues. And then if you keep
5:18reporting it, your profile can lose
5:20trust with Google because they're going
5:22to see that you're constantly reporting
5:23this and it is a legit business. And so
5:25it could work against you and that's why
5:28you might want to do it through other
5:30different accounts. But it is sketchy at
5:32the end of the day.
5:34So let me let me ask you this. If uh if
5:37Arthur can't get the business name
5:40changed, maybe they are using a DBA.
5:43>> What would what would you actually what
5:44would you advise to Arthur?
5:47>> Move on.
5:48>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
5:50>> I mean that's the reality is is like if
5:52if you're just fighting this one
5:54location and and they're an active
5:56business owner and they're keep
5:57reverting it back, you're probably not
5:59going to win. And I don't know. I get I
6:02at some point you have to just kind of
6:04realize like that it it is legit and
6:06maybe they have things in place that and
6:08then just go get your own DVA and make
6:10sure your keywords are in there too and
6:12do better SEO.
6:14>> This method of marketing is so effective
6:16I had to make sure it wasn't against
6:18Google's rules before I kept doing it.
6:20It's a form of SEO I call compact
6:23keywords. Whereas most SEO focuses on
6:25putting up articles to answer questions,
6:27how, what, when, compact keywords
6:29focuses on putting up dozens of pages
6:31that sell to searchers who are actually
6:34looking to buy. These pages rank on
6:37Google and convert so much better than
6:39normal that when I discovered this years
6:41ago, I couldn't believe this was
6:42allowed. It's less work, too. The
6:45average compact keywords page is only
6:47415 words. Compact Keywords is a 13-hour
6:51deep course on getting sales with SEO. A
6:54customer recently said, "Each lesson is
6:57dense with information. You're giving
6:59years worth of experience boiled down
7:01into 15 to 30 minute lessons with no
7:04filler or fluff. I feel like I'm gaining
7:06a new superpower. Compact Keywords is
7:09about setting up an SEO funnel that
7:10brings you sales for years and years and
7:13years. It works with AI. It's less work
7:16than traditional SEO and it makes way
7:19more money. You can get it now at
7:21compactkeywords.com.
7:23Back to the podcast. Are the what are
7:25what are the most um since you are like
7:28entrenched in this every day, what are
7:30the most common Google business profile
7:32spam issues or tactics that
7:33[clears throat] like are working right
7:35now? And then how could white hat
7:37business owners combat them?
7:40Uh, let me think. Like, so
7:44there's there's a lot of people that
7:46like make businesses out of like
7:48reporting and like taking people down
7:51through like the spam fighting. And I I
7:54I believe that a lot of these like
7:56business owners truly believe that this
8:00business doesn't exist, but it's not
8:02always the case. Like I actually had a
8:04client that got um dinged and they ended
8:08up having 60 locations suspended
8:11and um it was for sure because there was
8:14a red addressal form and somebody went
8:16into the forums and because the
8:18suspension reason was disabled business
8:22does not exist. And so when you see
8:25that, you can almost assume that you
8:27were reported. And it gets really
8:29complicated to get your listing uh back
8:31up. Like you have to have like really
8:33good proof. Like you can't um you're
8:36you're going to have to have like all
8:37your documents in place, your DBA, your
8:40leases, your utility bills, images,
8:43signage. Um I'm started I used to not
8:46submit like pictures and signage with
8:49the uh suspension forms. Lately I've
8:51been doing it. I've been seeing that
8:53there's more success with it. So, I
8:55don't know if they changed like they
8:57were ignoring it, but now they're
8:58accepting it. Um, but as far as like
9:02what's really working in spam, like I
9:04don't know. I feel like it changes like
9:07seasonally. Like there are times where
9:09there could be other issues Google's
9:11focused on and certain departments like
9:13you'll start to see like aren't
9:15producing the results they once did, but
9:18then it kind of comes back around like
9:19same thing with reviews. Like I'll
9:22notice like oh I'm doing so well taking
9:24down reviews and then all of a sudden
9:26like I'm not taking down any reviews and
9:28I'm like what's going on? Like they did
9:30the department just like get moved
9:32somewhere else or like shut down or are
9:35they trying something with AI? I mean,
9:37Google's constantly testing, so we don't
9:39really know.
9:40>> Have you heard of the uh of the driving
9:43directions hack?
9:45>> Yeah,
9:45>> it's so funny. And it like there's
9:48people who make businesses out of that.
9:50>> Yeah. But it could also work against
9:52you. So, I mean, if you if you're in
9:55investing in those kind of tactics, if
9:57you stop, you're actually going to hurt
9:59your rankings.
10:01So, you're you're just better off just
10:03like slow and steady and just doing like
10:05all best practice. I don't I don't
10:08really encourage that. And I would never
10:10do it for a client because I'd be
10:11terrified of really actually hurting
10:13their rankings in the long run.
10:15>> I agree. It's a It's a flashy thing that
10:18I make Instagram videos about, but I
10:20never recommend it myself. But whenever
10:22it's it whenever I share it on like
10:25Instagram or Tik Tok, the video always
10:27goes viral. And I've even had Google
10:29engineers like comment and be like, "We
10:31got to fix this." But it like it always
10:33I don't know if people for some like
10:36weird reason are they just find it so
10:39interesting that like you can go and
10:41direct your friends and family to use
10:43driving directions on Google Maps to go
10:45to your location and or some or
10:48literally hire people with hundreds of
10:49phones to drive with driving directions
10:51to your location. That's going to boost
10:53your performance. But can you can you
10:55explain why um when you stop doing that
10:57that will actually hurt you?
10:59>> Well, if you if you have all these
11:01signals and then they're high and then
11:03they start to drop, then of course
11:05you're going to hurt your it's the same
11:06thing with reviews. Like if you start
11:08generating a steady amount of reviews
11:10and then all of a sudden you go stale on
11:12your reviews for 3 months, your rankings
11:14drop. So it's it's really the same idea.
11:16like you might initially see a boost,
11:19but I think when you go like too high
11:21and you're like you're manipulating like
11:24with higher like numbers and it's not
11:26like really a natural organic flow,
11:29you're really going to do more harm than
11:30good.
11:31>> It's dangerous, too.
11:33>> It's spammy. Yeah. And Google has
11:35algorithms in place that are like
11:36looking for these type of um high fre
11:40like signals and then dropped and so you
11:42you're going to you're going to end up
11:44then they're going to say oh well this
11:45business really isn't popular and then
11:47you're going to just not get recommended
11:50or you know ranked.
11:52>> Do you specialize? I I didn't plan on
11:53asking actually that that was the
11:55questions that I asked was like
11:56literally why I invited you on this show
11:58but um reputation management is such a
12:01fascinating topic. It's something that
12:03personally I'm very and I you know I
12:06think people only recently started
12:08considering it like um with like SEO
12:11because of geo but like personally I
12:13thought it was always part of search
12:14engine optimization was it reputation
12:17management?
12:19>> Yeah, for sure. I mean it's always been
12:20reviews has always been on the local
12:22ranking factors and you know something
12:24that's going to drive your rankings. Um,
12:26I think over the last two years, I've
12:29realized like it's it's not so much the
12:31volume or even the keywords in the
12:34reviews, it's the top layer signals that
12:37you have first. So, for example, like if
12:39you have a menu item um, and it's like
12:42on the menu, then that's when the
12:45keywords and the reviews start to
12:47matter. Same thing with your services.
12:48when you have that keyword in the
12:50services and then it's backed up in the
12:52reviews, that's when you're going to
12:53start to see yourself rank a little bit
12:55better. So, you always want to make sure
12:57and then or the category for example,
12:59like if the primary category is also the
13:01keyword, then that's obviously going to
13:03help you. But and like I did a study
13:06once before where I couldn't understand
13:09why this restaurant wasn't ranking for a
13:11menu item and they had it mentioned like
13:1434 times in reviews, like recent reviews
13:17and their competitor never had a lot of
13:20reviews with that keyword. So I was like
13:21so intrigued by it and then I realized
13:24that the menu item that was synced to
13:26their Google business profile had a
13:28fancy word. So it was like Caesar
13:29kitchen instead of Caesar salad
13:32>> and that and so then I changed the menu
13:35item to read Caesar salad and then boom
13:38like the rankings just flew up. So it
13:40didn't matter that that Caesar salad was
13:43in their reviews 34 different times. So
13:47people need to think about that. Like if
13:48they see like this keyword in their
13:50reviews and they're like but I'm still
13:51not ranking. It's because Google's like
13:54doesn't see another top layer that they
13:56need to see to be able to to rank you
13:58for that. But every key every like query
14:02is different. Like I I look at
14:04everything as like query based and not
14:07so much like a ranking like oh just like
14:10a standalone ranking factor. Like if
14:13you're dealing with food items, you have
14:15to have the menu. If you're dealing with
14:16something service related, you have to
14:18have it in the service area. and or like
14:21sometimes just getting it into the
14:23business name is like enough too.
14:26>> So how much does how much does like uh
14:29so in in this case you said it was in
14:30the reviews 34 times but it wasn't in
14:32the menu. So how much does having the
14:35actual relevant language in the reviews
14:38help? If all it took was the menu change
14:41to to get the results that you wanted.
14:44>> Yeah. I mean, I've done like tests where
14:46like I've thrown in like something like
14:49a random menu name and there's no review
14:52mentioned keyword at all. You're still
14:54going to rank, but at the end of the
14:56day, like you also have to think about
14:58competitors, too. It was like some
14:59obscure keyword. So, like nobody had it
15:02on their menu. Of course, you're going
15:03to rank. But if you're like competing
15:06for a broader term and everyone has
15:09>> salad
15:10>> or no, like um pizza.
15:12>> Okay. Okay. you know, so like pizza
15:15obviously like people have it as their
15:17business category, it's in their
15:18business name, it's going to be in
15:20reviews, like all of that's going to
15:22matter more than like but if you're like
15:25trying to rank for like a specific sushi
15:28name, like a like a roll, a specific
15:30role, and that was the test I did. It
15:31was like a name of a role, then it's a
15:35lot easier to rank and like all you
15:36might need is the menu item. You don't
15:38need everything else because you're not
15:41competing for that broader term.
15:44>> What are the Google business profile
15:46mistakes that you see people make over
15:47and over and over and over and over
15:49again?
15:55>> I don't know. That's a tough question. I
15:57feel like cuz because I'm in the
15:59marketing world and um most people that
16:02are coming to me are like super engaged
16:04and like they're looking for help and
16:06optimizing. But I think like initially
16:08if I if I get a client and they like
16:12some are just like they don't even have
16:14access to their Google business profile
16:16like their old marketing company has
16:17access
16:19>> or they just like you know like they're
16:21they they don't optimize with categories
16:24right like they have like that one
16:26category and it's the wrong primary
16:27category. Um, so simple stuff like a lot
16:31of like things that we could just like
16:33are really quick wins like just from
16:35optimizing the profile. And then you
16:37know like you always want to look at
16:38your landing page that's connected to
16:40your Google business profile. Making
16:42sure like you have the strong landing
16:45page with like keywords in the URL like
16:48forward slity slervice that you're
16:51trying to rank for. That's always
16:52beneficial. And then having the right H1
16:55headers, metatitles, meta descriptions.
16:57So, so, you know, it's it's a
16:59combination of of things. I think the
17:02the worst thing people can do is just
17:04ignore their Google business profile um
17:06and not really like actively engage in
17:09because Google wants to see an active
17:11business owner.
17:12>> Are there like when people come to you
17:14uh to optimize their Google business
17:16profiles, like are there just like a few
17:19things that you always start with like
17:21your bread and butter that that make a
17:23difference that move the needle? Yeah,
17:25it's always business name and category
17:27first for me.
17:29>> And then I try to encourage like a
17:31review cadence. Like we got to like we
17:33got to generate reviews, but let's do it
17:36organically. Let's do it like in a
17:38really clean way. I'm not telling you to
17:39get 30 reviews in in one day. Like I had
17:43a client that I recently brought on and
17:45we started doing review grow campaigns
17:47and like their reviews increased, you
17:50know, by a decent amount. And then they
17:52asked me for the QR code and I'm like,
17:54"What are you guys doing?" And they're
17:56like, "Oh, we're going to put QR codes
17:58at the register and we're going to make
17:59it a goal to get five reviews a day."
18:02And I was like, "Please do not do that.
18:04That's like so dangerous." Like
18:06especially now, I don't know if you've
18:07noticed like review um the review gating
18:11and Google's changing their policy and
18:13people that get like huge spikes in
18:15reviews and like have these abnormal um
18:18averages of higher reviews are getting
18:21blocked for 30 days from generating any
18:23new reviews. So don't do that. It
18:26doesn't have to be huge spikes, just
18:28like something very like clean and
18:30organic like um and just look at your
18:32industry. Sometimes two is enough a week
18:34and are you know but if you're in a
18:36restaurant category obviously you want
18:38to be able to generate a little bit more
18:40but I think people should start focusing
18:43on content and reviews more than the
18:45actual number.
18:46>> They should focus on content in reviews.
18:50>> Yeah. So that the LLM can actually
18:52extract good data from it and recommend
18:54you.
18:55>> Why is the QR code thing dangerous?
19:00So, I think um I've been a lot of
19:03clients came to me recently and like I
19:05can't generate any more reviews. I don't
19:07know what happened. I just Google wiped
19:09out 300 reviews. And I said, first thing
19:11I asked them is, are you using a QR
19:14code? And they're like, yes, we are
19:16using a QR code. And I said, did you
19:19like have a grand opening? Like what
19:21what was what was the reason that you
19:23started? And they're like, it could be
19:24because it was a brand new business and
19:26they wanted to generate reviews. Uh
19:28there's been other things where they had
19:30like a a live event or something and
19:32they made sure that like everyone who
19:34was there left reviews. Um so different
19:38reasons, but I think that whole strategy
19:40like Google's cracking down on reviews
19:43that are left on premise and they've
19:45updated their policy about it. And one
19:47of the easiest ways for Google to track
19:50that I think is through the QR code. And
19:52historically, anytime a client has ever
19:54come to me and said like, "This review
19:56didn't publish from this customer or
19:59whatever," it always ties back to the um
20:02share this link that Google gives you
20:05and on your Google business profile. But
20:07if somebody will search your business
20:10and then leave you the review, those
20:12tend to stick a lot better because
20:13Google see that they engaged with your
20:15Google business profile, they searched
20:17your business name, and then it it
20:20sticks. So, when somebody says like
20:24that, my client left me a review and it
20:26didn't get published, I tell them to
20:28have them go back, search the business,
20:32maybe hit driving directions or call,
20:34and then go back, make a slight edit on
20:36the review, and then publish it, and it
20:38almost always posts.
20:39>> Wow. Um, so we had this scheduled for a
20:42short episode, so I'm going to end it
20:44with this question, which is which is um
20:47just for local business owners who want
20:49to get more meaningful reviews like u
20:53you were you know, you just shared uh go
20:55and actually search, but like are there
20:58tactics that you have them put in place
21:01to get a good amount of again meaningful
21:04reviews with the right language and
21:06content?
21:09the way you lead with like your text
21:11message campaign if you make it more
21:13personal I think goes a long way. So we
21:15do try that with some of our clients and
21:18then like in the email as well in the
21:20email templates but you have to make it
21:22like a part of like culture. So if
21:25you're a service- based company give
21:27really good customer service and then
21:29just make sure you're going to like tell
21:30them like I'm going to follow up with a
21:32text message or an email campaign. like
21:34I sincerely appreciate if you can like
21:37leave a review and and and mention all
21:39the great services that I was able to
21:41provide for you. Don't overdo it. Don't
21:44pressure. I think like I good customer
21:46service people will appreciate it and
21:49then go out of their way to really leave
21:50you the review. But you have to almost
21:53have something in place, follow up and
21:55and ask for it.
21:56>> Yeah. Claudia, thanks again for coming
21:59on the podcast. Where should everybody
22:01find you? Uh you can follow me on
22:03LinkedIn uh Claudia Toina or you can go
22:06to our website at reputationarm.com
22:08>> and I will have all of your links in the
22:10description for this show. This is
22:12episode 962
22:15of the Edward Show 962
22:17days in a row doing this podcast. Thank
22:20you again to Claudia for coming on.
22:22Thank you to Arthur for the question and
22:24thank you if you watch this on YouTube
22:26or if you listened on Spotify or Apple
22:29Podcasts. And I will talk to you again
22:32tomorrow.

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