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You vs. Google | The Very Unauthorized Guide to Google Ads with Kasim Aslam | E1257 — Transcript

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0:00Welcome to Inside Personal Growth
0:02Podcast.
0:03Deep dive with us as we unlock the
0:06secrets to personal development,
0:08empowering you to thrive here. Growth
0:11isn't just a goal, it's a journey. Tune
0:13in, transform, and take your life to the
0:15next level by listening to just one of
0:18our podcasts. Welcome back to Inside
0:21Personal Growth. This is Greg voice,
0:23host of Inside Personal Growth. And on
0:25the other side of the screen screen over
0:27there, Ken, where are you joining us
0:29from?
0:29>> Scottsdale, Arizona.
0:31>> Scottsdale. Nice and hot and juicy in
0:33Scottsdale, Arizona these days,
0:35especially. And uh, have you gotten
0:38above 100 today yet?
0:40>> I to be honest with you, the Arizonans
0:42don't even check. We just assume it's
0:43coming. So, I'm sure if I go out there,
0:45I could fry an egg on my sidewalk.
0:48>> Well, he's got a YouTube channel under
0:51his name, Kazum Islam. AS Lam and you
0:56can look him up there. We're also going
0:58to give you a link to his websites and
0:59everything else, but I want to let the
1:01listeners know a little bit about you. I
1:04really met this gentleman through some
1:07LinkedIn contacts we made. He's a serial
1:10serial entrepreneur has built uh
1:13multiple seven and eight figureure
1:15businesses including two successful
1:17exits. He's the founder and CEO of
1:19Solutions 8, one of the world's top
1:21ranked Google ad agencies that manages
1:24over 70 million in annual ad spend for
1:28roughly 200 clients ranging from
1:30publicly traded companies including
1:32major brands like Harley-Davidson, US
1:34Army. Uh KSM isn't just a successful
1:37agency owner. has been recognized as one
1:39of the top 50 digital marketing thought
1:41leaders in the United States by the
1:44University of Missouri and was awarded
1:45the Arizona Interactive Marketing
1:48Association's
1:49um 2017 TIM award. Uh he's the author of
1:54this book we're going to be talking
1:55about today, but also several other
1:57books. Uh one is called the seven
2:00critical principles of effects of
2:02digital marketing. Um the other one is
2:04the top 100 digital marketing books of
2:07all time. another one called You Versus
2:10Google, the very unauthorized guide to
2:12Google Ads. Um, this particular book,
2:15KASM, this is only going to be
2:17available, is that correct, as a digital
2:19download from your website, or is this
2:21going to be up on uh Amazon as well?
2:24>> No, this will be released as a as a
2:27quote unquote real book sometime
2:28midepptember, but your your listeners
2:30can have it for free. Um, we're giving a
2:34a pre-release away for anybody who's
2:37listening to the podcast and they can go
2:39to the higherbook.com,
2:41the higherbook.com and download it for
2:43free. And it comes with a whole bunch of
2:45worksheets and checklists. And Greg,
2:46there's no ascension. So, there's no
2:48course, there's no upsell, there's
2:50nowhere to go. Uh, and I only say that
2:53because I don't want people to feel as
2:54though this is like some low value offer
2:56that I'm making in order to get them
2:58into my funnel. The book is my life's
3:00work. It comes with checklists,
3:01templates, worksheets, a global job
3:04board. Like, it's everything people will
3:05need in order to capture top talent.
3:08>> That is quite an offer. So, for everyone
3:10listening, please go. We'll have it in
3:13the show notes below. So, look down
3:15below here because we'll get that link.
3:18Make sure you take advantage of that
3:19because not only did he say you're going
3:21to get the book, you're also going to
3:22get some uh other worksheets that you
3:26could use. Uh, and I'd really encourage
3:28that. So Cassam, you start your book,
3:32this book, the hire book, um, by saying
3:36you didn't want to write it. You wanted
3:37to write about delegation instead. What
3:41made you realize that hiring had to come
3:44first? And how did this shift your
3:47entire perspective on building all of
3:50your businesses, kind of your empire
3:52that you've built? Effective delegation
3:55presupposes someone effective to
3:58delegate to.
3:59>> And I think that's where most of us go
4:01wrong in the beginning is we think, "Ah,
4:03I'm so bad at delegating." And you're
4:04not. You're just delegating to the wrong
4:06person. Uh the right person makes
4:10delegation easy. And to put that in in
4:13terms that are accessible to everybody,
4:15the right software application makes
4:18prompting easy. You know, the smarter
4:21the software gets, the less intelligent
4:23you have to be about your prompt. That's
4:25why Google became the number one search
4:26engine. We've been engaging with AI for,
4:28you know, decades longer than people
4:29realize because Google search was an AI
4:31tool unto itself. You want your
4:34employees to work as well as Google used
4:36to work for you. You want your employees
4:38with Google. You go straight to Google
4:40and you're like, "Hey, I need the, you
4:41know, the the the coffee shop in Scotts,
4:43Arizona with an outdoor patio that's
4:44open until 10 p.m. Bam. Here you go,
4:46boss." Right? Like just easy. I don't
4:49have to I don't have to think through my
4:51framework and how I ask this question
4:52and reverse engineer and you know like I
4:55don't need to be intelligent with
4:56request. The the mechanism that I'm
4:59making the request of is intelligent for
5:01me. The same thing should be true for
5:04your your staff. Everybody who works for
5:06you should be smarter than you along
5:08whatever level of analysis their job
5:10takes place. Uh, so like I don't want a
5:13CFO that I beat at finance that I cannot
5:17run when it comes to a P&L, right? Like
5:20that that's a self-defeating exercise.
5:22And yet most entrepreneurs sadly, and
5:26I'm no exception to this, especially
5:28early stage,
5:30they subconsciously are terrified of
5:33competence. Mhm.
5:35>> So they hire people that are manageable
5:39that they that they feel that they can,
5:41you know, they can keep a grasp on. The
5:43problem is is manageable people need to
5:44be managed. And I think the the exact
5:47opposite should be true. I think that
5:49the framework everybody should approach
5:50this endeavor with is let me go find a
5:53nuclear weapon. Let me find a miracle of
5:56a human who who's whose just
5:58capabilities know no limitation and
6:01bring them into my business and then
6:02unleash them to to to run faster and
6:05farther and with more strength and
6:07fervor and passion than I'd ever be able
6:09to muster. And at the risk of sounding
6:11horribly arrogant, I've done it hundreds
6:13of times because interestingly peak
6:16performers are not what most businesses
6:18are attracting or even trying to hire.
6:21So they end up being readily accessible
6:22to you if you know the framework.
6:24>> Well, what do you think about the ABC
6:27players, right? So I understand that
6:30trust is a big issue with people whether
6:33it in a startup or an ongoing business,
6:36you know, this becomes an issue. It's
6:38like, hey, I've got I'm going to
6:40delegate. Like in your case, people are
6:42delegating to people all over the globe
6:45to do work for them. They don't sit in
6:47their office. They're remote workers,
6:49right? And so there has to be a high
6:52degree of trust with something like that
6:54that not only what you're delegating is
6:57being accomplished, but the competency
7:00of the people is high enough to be able
7:02to perform it. You talk about this prao
7:05talent, people who deliver 10x, 20x, and
7:08even 100x results. Um, most business
7:11owners think these are unicorns. They
7:14don't exist or they're impossible to
7:15find. What's the biggest misconception
7:18people have about identifying this level
7:21of talent?
7:22>> Uh we are taught to hire people
7:26in exactly the wrong way. It's 180
7:28degrees. We're heading in the wrong
7:30direction. If you take any business book
7:32that you've read off the shelf, Michael
7:33Gerber, Steven Cubby, Ray Alio, doesn't
7:36matter. Everybody as a ubiquitous truth
7:40speaks about
7:42humans within the confines of the
7:45mechanism that is business as though
7:48they were commodities. Everybody and you
7:51have to it's a shorthand. It's how we
7:53have the discussion. So you've heard
7:54yourself say I need a graphic designer.
7:55I need to find a new lawyer. I need a
7:57doctor. I need a that's that's a that's
7:59a a statement of commoditization as
8:01though a graphic designer A and graphic
8:03designer B are interchangeable. The
8:04thing about commodities is commodities
8:07are
8:08interchangeable to the degree to where
8:10if you have an earorn and I have an
8:11earorn and we swap, neither of us are
8:13better or worse off than we were moments
8:15ago.
8:16>> If you have a CPA and I have a CPA and
8:17we swap, my world falls apart. So
8:20thinking about people like commodities,
8:23while it makes for a good shorthand
8:24conversation, makes for the worst type
8:28of hiring because the way to buy a
8:30commodity is to pay the least and get
8:32the most. So if I'm buying corn, I'm
8:35going to pay you the absolute least and
8:37get the absolute most. And that's how a
8:38good commodities trader makes their
8:40money. You make your money on your buy
8:41side.
8:42>> When you do that with people, you get
8:44the worst people. And what entrepreneurs
8:47are taught to do is to hire people like
8:49commodities. So what that would mean is
8:50just to use round numbers, let's say
8:52that you're hiring for a role that pays
8:53somewhere between 75 and 100 rupees,
8:56right? The entrepreneur is taught to pay
8:5874.9.
9:00So if the window is 75 to 100, I want to
9:03pay 74.9 and then I'm going to try to
9:04squeeze as much out of that person as I
9:06possibly can. That's the way we're
9:07taught to hire. What I tell people first
9:10and foremost is winners want to win. And
9:12money is how we keep score. If you want
9:14a peak performer, you pay 10% more than
9:16the high watermark. 10% more than the
9:18high water mark. Now people hear that
9:19wrong. They go, gosh, 10% more than 75.
9:22And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. 10%
9:24more than the high water mark. So if the
9:25window is 75 to 100, you're trying to
9:27pay 7 74.9. I'm telling you, you should
9:30pay 110
9:31>> if you can afford to. You should pay
9:32200. If you can afford to, you should
9:33pay 300. And people go crazy. They're
9:35like, A, you don't understand my
9:36business model. It's not viable. It
9:38won't pencil. It doesn't make sense. And
9:39what they don't understand is the
9:40Predator distribution. Cuz when you pay
9:4210% more or 30% more or 50% more, you
9:46get 10 times more, 100 times more,
9:49thousand times more. This is, by the
9:51way, I'm not being hyperbolic. This is
9:52not an exaggeration. This is a
9:54statistical truism. When I sold
9:55Solutions 8, I had an eight figureure
9:58exit
10:00with a business that had 80 employees.
10:03One human managed 40% of my revenue. His
10:06name is John Moran. He's the greatest
10:07Google ads mind alive. That's the
10:10hierarchical distribution of the PTO
10:11distribution. The PTO distribution says
10:14that 20% of people are responsible for
10:1580% of outputs. And you think to
10:18yourself like, oh yeah, that's
10:19reasonable. I've seen that myself. But
10:20what people don't realize is it's
10:22fractal. So, if you have an organization
10:23that has a thousand employees, let's
10:25say, just to use round numbers and easy
10:26math, I have a 10th grade education.
10:28>> If you have an an organization that has
10:30a thousand employees, 200 employees are
10:32responsible for 80% of that
10:33organization's output. And you go, okay,
10:35sounds right. But zoom in on those 200.
10:38Of those 200, 40 are responsible for 80%
10:40of that output. Zoom in on the 40. Eight
10:42are responsible for 80% of that output.
10:44When you do the total math, one person
10:46in a 1,00 person organization does about
10:4925% of the total output. And you can
10:52index towards finding that one person or
10:55more appropriately the eight, right? The
10:58one, the Neo, they tend to be a little
11:00reclusive, but the eight, the eight out
11:02of a thousand, gosh, are they
11:03accessible. And Greg, they're
11:05everywhere. And they're everywhere
11:07because they are repelled and repulsed
11:09by traditional employment. Cuz if you
11:11look at traditional employment, it's
11:13people trying to pay less and get more.
11:14It's people making you punch a clock,
11:16screenshot your desktop, ask me to go
11:18pee, track your PTO, do this
11:21garbage work, not recognize who you are,
11:23not give give you meaningful work.
11:25That's the majority. And when I say the
11:27majority, it's the vast majority. It's
11:2999.9999999999%
11:32of employment opportunities are garbage.
11:36>> You want a peak performer, treat them
11:38like a peak performer. And they will
11:39come out of the freaking woodwork for
11:40you, man. and they will run through
11:42walls, dig tunnels, go around, repel
11:45over. Like there's no barrier that holds
11:47them back. They're extraordinary humans.
11:48And I've done this over and over and
11:50over and over and over again.
11:52>> Well, you certainly have the experience
11:54behind you. And so what you're saying is
11:56bold. You said that education and
11:59experience are secondary to tenacity and
12:02will.
12:03>> Yeah. So what's going to make some HR
12:07departments very uncomfortable?
12:10Um, could you share a specific example
12:14where you hired somebody basically
12:17unqualified who became like a superstar?
12:20I think real life examples or stories
12:23are really very relatable to the
12:26listening audience.
12:27>> I'd be happy to. I can give you 50. I'll
12:28give you three of my favorite if you
12:30care to hear them. The first one first
12:31and you can tell me how well I do. This
12:33is my favorite story of all time. I
12:34hired a young man out of the Ukraine. I
12:36found him on freelancer.com.
12:38>> He asked for $1,000 a month. He he
12:40messaged me and said, "I'll give you for
12:41$1,000 a month. I'll do anything you ask
12:43me to do." He was going to college. He
12:44wanted to get married. He needed to to
12:46basically cover his nut. And a thousand
12:48bucks did that. And he was he was in
12:49Poland going to school, but he's
12:51Ukrainian by nationality. Uh he I found
12:55him using my system. He ends up being
12:57one of the best hires I've ever had in
12:58my entire life. Started as my VA. I was
13:00just giving him boatloads of problems
13:03basically. Hey man, solve this. Make
13:05this website faster. Fix this funnel.
13:07Figure out what's going on here. can you
13:08help us with whatever? Basically a
13:11firefighter. He ends up being so adept
13:13he becomes the tech lead at solutions 8
13:15gets promoted to be the CTO manages my
13:18entire exit which was an 8 to9month
13:20proctologology exam as far as I'm
13:22concerned and is now my business partner
13:23and one of my best friends. Ivonne owns
13:2550% of my staffing agency PTO talent.
13:27So, what I did was I took a VA, my very
13:30first, one of my very best VAs, and I
13:32made him a business partner. And now he
13:33finds and trains executive assistants
13:35for other people. And we've already
13:37crossed the million-dollar gross revenue
13:38mark. So, I took a child from Poland. He
13:41was 20 years old when I hired him, dude.
13:43He was a kid. And now, flash forward, he
13:45was a sea level executive, managed the
13:48exit, a soft bankbacked exit, by the
13:50way, with Goldman Sachs Ivy League
13:52types. Like, we're not talking about
13:53just, you know, a run-of-the-mill. like
13:54he had managed a very real M&A process
13:57and is now my business partner in
13:58multiple endeavors. And not to
14:01disparrage him because he's a beautiful
14:02human and I love him dearly and deeply
14:04but there are other Ivons out there.
14:06>> Yeah.
14:07>> There are other people that are
14:08extraordinarily talented that are not
14:10being given the opportunity that dare I
14:12say they deserve. I don't think people
14:15deserve much, Greg.
14:16>> I'm one of those you got to go out and
14:18get it. But I think people deserve
14:19opportunity, you know. I think they
14:21deserve the opportunity to prove
14:22themselves
14:23>> because of what uh what characteristics
14:25you know I have uh three people in
14:28Pakistan and I believe that my key guy
14:30is like your guy. Okay. But but the
14:33point is is that what characteristics do
14:37you find you need to look for as a
14:40business owner in these individuals? Um
14:44I think I know them, but I'd like for
14:45you to tell our listening audience um
14:48what those are. One of the things that I
14:51think when you hire remote talent has to
14:54be a high level of curiosity.
14:57>> They have to want to use their ability
15:00to find the use the internet to solve
15:04problems,
15:05speak to you, whoever they can to try
15:08and solve these problems. But what what
15:10is your characteristics that you think
15:13these people possess that would uh
15:16encourage you because you're saying we
15:18get the hiring wrong to pay 110%
15:22of what the standard is.
15:26>> Productivity, creativity, attention to
15:29detail. That's my buy box. Productivity,
15:32creativity, attention to detail.
15:34Productivity is the most important by
15:36far. The other two can be taught.
15:37Productivity. Maybe it can be taught.
15:40I'm not good at it, dude. If you're not
15:42proactive, I just don't work with you.
15:44If you sit there like a bump on a log,
15:46you could be the smartest, most
15:47industrious person in the whole wide
15:49world, but if I if you wait for me to
15:51come and give you something to do,
15:52you're worthless to me and all my
15:53organizations, and I don't want anything
15:54to do with you. What I tell my people,
15:56we staff EAs at one of my businesses.
15:58And I tell my EAs, you have to be the
16:01promptor, not the prompty, because we're
16:04we're in a race against AI. So on a long
16:08enough timeline, AI is going to get
16:09smarter than you, more adept than you,
16:11more creative than you. That's a fact,
16:13right? There's trillion dollar
16:14mechanisms going into this. But as long
16:17as you're the one prompting the process,
16:19you will always have a job because
16:21somebody has to come up and say, "Oh, we
16:23need a new website for this reason, or
16:24we should write a book for this reason,
16:25or we should launch a podcast for this
16:27reason." You're prompting. Hey boss, I
16:29feel like we should do this. Prompt,
16:31proactive, move the needle. If you're
16:33the promptee,
16:35you're you are on universal basic income
16:37in 24 months, guaranteed pet money.
16:39We're looking at the biggest labor
16:40collapse in human history. And the
16:41people that will survive that and end up
16:43with a job on the other end of it are
16:45the people that are willing to be
16:47proactive. So proactivity is number one.
16:49Creativity, I think you and I are using
16:51creativity and curiosity
16:52interchangeably. I feel like you have to
16:54be and I don't mean creative as like a
16:57graphic designer or a video editor. I
16:59mean a creative problem solver. Because
17:01when somebody comes to me and I say,
17:02"Hey, you know, can you do me a favor?
17:03Can you put the box in the corner of the
17:05room?" And they come back and they go,
17:06"Ah, things are already in the corner of
17:08the room." I'm like, "Okay, now I've got
17:10to deal with this idiot." You know, like
17:11be a be under into it what it is that
17:14I'm getting after. Why is it that I
17:15would want this box in the corner of
17:17this room? What does the corner of this
17:18room mean? What else could we possibly
17:20do to accomplish this task so that you
17:23don't have to come back and play this
17:24iterative game of tennis where I have to
17:26solve this problem for you? So
17:28proactive, creative, and then the last
17:30one is, and this can be taught, and I've
17:33noticed that there are cultural
17:36idiosyncrasies in terms of who's good at
17:38this and who's not, but attention to
17:40detail.
17:41>> When we're working remotely, I do I just
17:43need you to dot your eyes and cross your
17:45tees.
17:45>> Yeah.
17:46>> Don't make me check your because you
17:48could be extraordinary as a resource,
17:50but if I have to check everything you
17:52do, I might as well just do it myself.
17:54>> Yeah. And there's some folks that they
17:56just get so excited and they move so
17:58fast that you know and that you can
18:00build guard rails around those people
18:01and some of them are worth building
18:02those guardrails around but for the most
18:04part I need those three not equal
18:06measure you know some people are going
18:08to be better at some than others. Well,
18:10for anybody listening to this podcast,
18:12the the characteristics that you just
18:15mentioned and the skill set you
18:18mentioned,
18:19I mean, you hit it nail on right on. And
18:22that should be for anybody looking for
18:23anybody, whether they're remotely
18:25working or not. But the reality is is
18:28that's it. Now, let's talk about your
18:31fly traps. These clever tests hidden in
18:35your job postings because now people
18:38have to find these people. You mentioned
18:40one where you intentionally gave wrong
18:43login conditions during trial projects.
18:47It sounds kind of devious. Um, what's
18:50the psychology behind these tests?
18:53>> Well, this is all stuff that's going to
18:54happen in the real world, right? So, you
18:56hire somebody. Let's say you hire a
18:58website designer and you're you're an
19:00agency that that provides website
19:02maintenance for customers. What are the
19:05odds that somewhere along that person's
19:07tenure they're going to end up getting
19:09the wrong username and password from a
19:10customer
19:11>> all the time. Happens.
19:13>> It'll happen daily, right? Daily, right?
19:16>> Yeah.
19:16>> Every damn day. So, what I do is when
19:18I'm triing these these these prospects,
19:21these prospective employees, is I'll
19:22just replicate that scenario but within
19:25the trial. So, I'll assign them a task
19:27and then I'll and I ask them. I never
19:29tell them what it should be do. This is
19:31a part of that productivity thing. I'll
19:32say, "Hey, here's the scope of work. How
19:34long do you think until this is done?"
19:36Because I want to know that they can
19:37communicate, they can manage
19:38expectations, that they can actually
19:39assess the situation. So, if it's Monday
19:41and they tell me Friday, I say, "Great.
19:43I look forward to seeing it on Friday."
19:44when I send them the resources that they
19:47will need in order to accomplish the
19:48task, uh, I'll usually use like you
19:50could use Dropbox or something like
19:52that, but I'll use something they have
19:53to log into and I'll send them the wrong
19:54username and the wrong password and then
19:56I wait to see how long it takes for them
19:58to
19:58>> how many days
19:59>> because if it's if they if it's Monday
20:01and they tell me it'll be done on Friday
20:03and Thursday night at midnight I get
20:05this frantic email saying the password
20:06doesn't work. Now I know who you are. I
20:08want somebody who's going to jump in and
20:10be like, "All right, let me make sure I
20:11have everything I need before I commit
20:12to this deadline." And again, that
20:14that's coachable behavior, but if you
20:17have enough fly traps, you signal to
20:19people that fly traps are coming and and
20:21generally speaking, the right people are
20:22put on guard and and they're on their
20:24best behavior. But when somebody's going
20:25through an interview process, that is
20:27the best and most effective they will
20:28ever be. They that's the best you're
20:31ever going to see anybody function. So,
20:32you want to make sure that you're using
20:34that appropriately in order to gauge
20:37their efficacy as a resource to you.
20:39That's a great it's a great point you
20:41make and I love what you did as a fly
20:44trap to test how soon people would
20:47actually respond to you to say, "Hey, I
20:49have the wrong login and password." Um,
20:52as a matter of fact, I don't even see
20:54that as devious. I see that as a way
20:56where you're testing them. Um, and it's
20:58a great way to test. Now, you have this
21:00rule about never trying to retain
21:02employees and you actually encourage
21:05their side hustles. Now, there's a lot
21:07of people that would employ
21:10uh remote workers from other parts of
21:12the world that would say, "I don't know
21:14about that one." Uh, Casim, most
21:17business owners think that you're crazy.
21:19Tell us about uh this. You have two
21:23stories here that support the growth
21:26actually benefited you for people with
21:30side hustles.
21:31>> Yeah. I got Jay Abraham as a client
21:33prospect. Uh, do you know Jay? Oh yeah.
21:36Yeah.
21:37>> So, I ended up meeting him years later.
21:39But at the time, man, he was like an
21:41entrepreneurial god, you know? I just
21:43never thought I'd be in the same room as
21:45him. And I get an email from a young man
21:47who used to work for me saying, "Hey, I
21:49have a client on the hook who's just too
21:50big for me. Do you want him?" And if you
21:52flash back, this young man, his name's
21:54Donnishi.
21:55Donnish was a VA, uh, did kind of menial
21:59work for me on, you know, whatever it is
22:01that I needed done and was really good.
22:04And so menial work turned into real work
22:06and real work turned into real projects.
22:08And the whole time Donnish is building
22:10his sidehustle while he's working for
22:11me. And I can see him. You can go to
22:13idonish.com if you want to find him. Let
22:15me see if this website is still up
22:16because I'd love to give the kid a shout
22:17out.
22:18>> Uh if you go to idish da n i s. Oh, it
22:21looks like he took it down.
22:23>> Um but I could see him building his
22:25brand. And interestingly, he was
22:26actually replicating my brand a little
22:28bit. He was sort of, you know what I
22:29mean? He was being inspired, let's say,
22:30is is the nice way to say that.
22:32>> And I was fine with it. I was like,
22:34"Dude, take it. Run." And his brand
22:36ended up outgrowing the role that I had
22:38for him. And so he went off on his way.
22:40And I helped him do that. And I referred
22:42him clients. And you know, he would ask
22:43me questions sometimes and ask me for
22:45advice. And lo and behold, one day he
22:48turns around and refers me one of the
22:50biggest prospects I ever get in my whole
22:51life. Uh, another young man that worked
22:53for me, Colin Schmelbeck. Colin wanted
22:55to start his own Google Ads agency. Um,
22:58told me that in the interview process
22:59and I said, "Hey buddy, all I need from
23:01you is two years." and before you leave,
23:03you find and train your replacement. And
23:05he did exactly that. He gave me two
23:07years. He found and trained his
23:08replacement. And when he left, he didn't
23:11want to grow a great big agency. He
23:12wanted to be a freelancer. Now, if you
23:14go to Twitter, Colin Schmelbeck is one
23:16of the biggest names in Google Ads. He's
23:18Twitter famous in Google Ads. And so, he
23:20attracts all of these leads and he only
23:23takes off he he he he skims the cherry
23:26from the top, let's say, or the cream
23:27from the top. Where's he going to refer
23:30the remainder to?
23:31>> Right? So, we ended up having a really
23:33good referral relationship and I got the
23:35benefit of two years of a really
23:37phenomenal resource. So, I don't think
23:39you can't retain top talent because top
23:40talent doesn't want to be retained. But
23:42if you show top talent the opportunity
23:47that is working with and for you, you
23:49get to benefit from these
23:50extraordinarily adept people. And then
23:52when they move on, they end up being
23:53peers. they end up being referral
23:55partners or strategic partners or I mean
23:57gosh I've I've had people ascend out of
23:59my organization, get jobs at big
24:01organizations and then turn around and
24:03hire us. That's happened twice. Um so I
24:08I I think you cut your nose off despite
24:10your face when you try to shackle
24:13people.
24:14>> Well,
24:14>> and you end up with people that are
24:15shackleable, which are, you know, those
24:17are indentured servants. You don't want
24:18those in employees anyway. Well, your
24:20mindset is really crystal clear about
24:23this. And I think people have to cross
24:26the line or break through the glass
24:29ceiling to actually take themselves to a
24:32level. You know, it's like, do I have a
24:34growth mindset or not? If I have a
24:36growth mindset, I'm going to be willing
24:38to do these things. I'm going to be
24:39willing to understand how it's going to
24:41help me and them at the same time. So
24:44that literally it's symbiotic and it's a
24:47win-win. Now look, you've been hiring
24:50internationally since 2014, way before
24:53COVID. Uh you made remote work
24:57mainstream. Okay. Uh what were the
25:00biggest challenges you faced early on?
25:02And what advice would you give someone
25:04today hiring their first international
25:07team member
25:11besides coming to you to do that? But
25:13>> yeah, well, and they don't need to to be
25:14honest.
25:15>> They can though. I mean, that's a point
25:17I should make out here. People listening
25:19today should really realize that this is
25:22what uh you do. And if they want, we're
25:25going to have in the show notes all the
25:27links uh to the places they go. One of
25:30them, and I'm going to just mention this
25:31now, uh is uh digital marketer.com.
25:37Uh that's a
25:38>> No, that's not my property. I' I've I've
25:40done courses for them. I I built their
25:43>> Bill. Okay. Where do you want to send
25:44people then, Kashim?
25:46>> Uh, pritotalent.com.
25:47>> Ptoalent.com. Okay.
25:49>> PTO.
25:50>> Realize this guy's got a lot of
25:51websites. So,
25:53>> yeah,
25:53>> you get lost in his maze. So, um, but
25:57what would you tell people right now
25:58that are listening and they're they're
26:00about ready to hire people in Romania or
26:03Pakistan or Asia somewhere?
26:08>> Align
26:09your incentives.
26:11So what I mean by that is
26:15when you benefit your resource should
26:17benefit and vice versa. And that sounds
26:20you're like well yeah dude obviously but
26:22most people don't actually build that
26:24into their model. I'll give you an
26:25example. Hourly work if you pay if you
26:29work for an hour and I pay you for an
26:30hour we we now have misaligned
26:32incentives. You are incentivized
26:36to make tasks last longer. Right? That's
26:40that's actually a horrible framework for
26:42so many reasons. Really, what should
26:44happen is
26:46you determine what output is most
26:48valuable to you and then you pay me
26:50according to that output. So to give you
26:52an example, when I was running solutions
26:538, which is the largest business I've
26:56ever built, we approached eight figures
26:57in revenue. We had an 8 figure exit.
27:00I was paid on ad spend under management.
27:02By the time we sold, we had $100 million
27:04in ad spend under management. And I
27:06charged a percentage of ad spend. and to
27:08align my incentives with my employees. I
27:11didn't do this early, by the way, Greg.
27:12I made a mistake and I had to fix it
27:13later.
27:14>> Right. Right. Right.
27:15>> What ended up happening when I was
27:17paying people just a flat rate. I used
27:19to pay people by uh clients. It's once
27:21you have 30 clients, you're at what we
27:22call a full slate. Well, employees would
27:25get to 30 clients and had zero incentive
27:27to take on more clients. So, all my best
27:29people would get maxed out and then stop
27:31taking clients, which is interesting
27:33because when you have a client for a
27:34long time, they get easier and easier
27:36and easier and easier. So, a slate of 30
27:39tenured clients is actually way easier
27:41than a slate of 15 new ones,
27:43>> right? Oh, yeah.
27:44>> Which means your your your tenur
27:45employees could continue to take
27:47clients. Like I mentioned, one person
27:49was managing 40% of my revenue. So, what
27:52we did is we changed it so that you were
27:54paid according to what I invoice the
27:56clients. You were basically paid a
27:58percentage of the gross, which meant you
28:00had every incentive to grow and retain
28:03your current clients and take on new
28:06clients with no ceiling. Why would I put
28:07a ceiling on that? And it put me in a
28:10position of really maximizing the value
28:12potential of the people that work for
28:14me. It also put me in a position of
28:17helping them see why they shouldn't
28:19leave because when when they got really
28:21good, there was the temptation of, man,
28:24I should just go freelance and do this
28:25myself. But what I did is I made them an
28:27entrepreneur. I'm like, you could do
28:29that or you could work for me. I'll take
28:31care of all the overhead, all the lights
28:32on, all the branding, bring customers to
28:34your door, and you'll probably make
28:35close to just as much because you're
28:38master of your own destiny. And you can
28:40do that with most things, not
28:42everything. But you can do that with
28:44most roles.
28:46We should be gauging people's efficacy
28:49on output. The other thing that that
28:51does in a post AI world is it
28:52incentivizes people to use AI to make
28:54things more effective and more
28:56productive. If you're paying somebody by
28:58the hour, there's no incentive to use AI
29:00because AI just makes things faster. Why
29:02would I do that?
29:03>> But if you're paying them by the output,
29:04bet money they'll figure out pretty darn
29:06quick how to go use AI to scale the
29:08output and they're your employee. Now
29:11they get to show you. So, you know, I
29:13mean, do they end up on the right side
29:15of the teeter in that particular
29:16fulcrum? Sure. But every subsequent
29:19employee you hire, you now get to train
29:20on how to be more effective.
29:22>> Are you advocating that those people
29:26potentially become vendors? I mean, it's
29:30a wrong term.
29:32>> No, that happens often. It happens
29:34often. Yeah. I had a young man who did
29:36our at solutions 8. He was doing a data
29:38feed. Um, data feeds end up being really
29:41really important for Google ads because
29:42of uh e-commerce clients especially. and
29:46he got so good at it and so fast at it
29:49that he ended up spitting off his own
29:51thing and I sometimes I would just refer
29:53to him, sometimes I'd resell him. And
29:55what was really interesting about that
29:56is I ended up paying him less and he
29:58ended up making way more,
30:00>> right?
30:00>> Because instead of me having to foot the
30:02bill, I would just refer a client to him
30:05that needed a data feed cleanup or if I
30:07wanted to, I'd white label him and mark
30:09it up so he became a profit center
30:10instead of a cost center.
30:11>> Yeah. No, it's it it happens. is you
30:13just have to look at all of the
30:16variables and opportunities there. Now,
30:18you've talked a little bit about AI so
30:20far and you you said that it doesn't
30:23replace people, it amplifies the right
30:25ones. You just mentioned it a second
30:27ago. It makes you do your job faster if
30:29you're being paid by the hour. Why would
30:31you start to implement it? Blah blah
30:33blah. With all the talk about AI taking
30:36jobs away, how does this change your
30:38hiring strategy? And are you looking for
30:41different qualities in candidates now
30:45with a AI being so prevalent versus when
30:49it wasn't as prevalent?
30:51>> Oh yes. So I I I I'll correct if you
30:54don't mind. You said that I said that AI
30:58won't take jobs. I actually don't
31:00believe that. I think AI
31:04will
31:04>> we know it's going to take jobs but the
31:06question is it's gonna
31:08>> percent of the jobs
31:09>> it's gonna amplify those people who know
31:12how to use it effectively
31:13>> correct so I think 80% of people are now
31:15superfluous to the productive process
31:18meaning you don't need them but 20% of
31:21people you need more than you've ever
31:23needed a person because
31:26the the leverage in their endeavor so
31:29that one person is now they're a nuclear
31:31weapon
31:32everything they do gets scaled to an
31:34exponential degree. So in the past a
31:38good person was just good. Now
31:42if that person's not great,
31:45every little thing they do, all their
31:47mistakes get multiplied by 100,000. All
31:50of their anything they do right gets
31:52multiplied by 100,000. And so the people
31:55that you need need to be extraordinary.
31:57Uh pre AI there was a world for good
32:00enough. there really was a place where
32:02you just had your bullpen of good enough
32:04people just because you needed to pull
32:05out scale. Well, AI does all the scale
32:08for you. Now, the only people you can
32:10afford are truly extraordinary. And and
32:12this is where I get really bullish. This
32:14is why I think education, certification,
32:17background, and and dare I say to some
32:20degree even experience doesn't matter as
32:22much. With AI,
32:25I swear to God, Greg, with AI and the
32:28right oversight, I could do heart
32:30surgery if you gave me a weekend. Now, I
32:33probably wouldn't be insured for,
32:35>> but I bet you I could pull it off.
32:37>> I There's a lot of things you could do
32:40that, you know, in your business though,
32:42much of what you're outsourcing
32:45is, pardon me, I wouldn't say the
32:48mundane, but you know, some of it is.
32:50>> It's a lot of grunt work. It's customer
32:52service. It's, you know, answering
32:54questions. So, when you're using this
32:57these tools, have you deeply gone into
33:01AGI? Have you gone any deeper than that?
33:04Are you now building your own platforms
33:07and running them at your company, Prao?
33:11>> Yeah. So, what we do on behalf of our
33:13clients is if you were to hire one of my
33:14EAs, we create the Greg GPT basically.
33:18And so as you interface with the EA,
33:21that information is being captured in a
33:24way that allows us to accelerate the
33:26interaction on an ongoing basis. So you
33:28don't have to repeat yourself. We start
33:30to distill what you need from a values
33:31perspective. We take everything that you
33:34know like a knowledge base, let's say,
33:35and we capture it. And this is
33:37especially helpful, too, because like I
33:38said, EAs aren't necessarily retainable.
33:40So my hope and expectation is you have
33:43your EA for 18 months to two years,
33:45which by the way is about the average
33:46tenure of any employee in any
33:48organization these days in the white
33:50collar world. And when that person
33:52leaves, I just had an EA leave. She's
33:54one of the best I've ever had. Her name
33:55was Hosaphina. She's a child
33:57psychologist by trade. And she came to
33:59me and said, "I need to go back to child
34:01psychology. It's my passion. It's my
34:02dream. It's my joy. It's my love." So
34:04she trained my replacement. And it was
34:05still catastrophically damaging cuz
34:07there's this person that knows
34:09everything about me. she knows where I
34:11want to sit on the plane based off of
34:12the length of the flight. You know what
34:13I mean? Like all those little rules that
34:15are hard to pass along. Well, we no
34:17longer have to do that because you can
34:18actually plug that into a GPT. So, when
34:21you replace somebody, add somebody, grow
34:23your team, you're starting to integrate
34:26this information into a mechanism that
34:28uh helps butress them in their
34:30decision-m on a long enough timeline. I
34:33would expect that to go agentic. It's
34:35not agentic today. I do think that
34:38there's a lot in the agentic world that
34:40we don't have access to and I have
34:42reasons to believe that you know I mean
34:44I I I'm a part of enough uh groups and
34:50in enough you know call them masterminds
34:52where I can see from the outside looking
34:55in what the big players are playing with
34:57and it's pretty extraordinary. What is
34:59the what is for the smaller people which
35:02would be even me um you know in writing
35:06sequencing through something like Zapier
35:09with its own AI to actually get it to
35:14access an Excel spreadsheet to do
35:16research to then take that and create an
35:18email and all these kind of things. You
35:21know I'm talking about the particulars
35:22now and I think a lot of listeners
35:25they're really not even aware of this. I
35:27mean, as something as as powerful as
35:31Zapier, but now it's being built into
35:33everything. Almost like it's going to
35:35make Zapier uh totally irrelevant,
35:39right?
35:39>> Well, we're going to we're going to be
35:41The way to think about it is
35:45screenless.
35:47You'll know when a Gentic AI has really
35:50taken over because we'll live in more or
35:51less a screenless world. Why would you
35:53need to look at a screen? Everything
35:56that you do from a screen perspective is
35:59done so that you can interface with a
36:03digital mechanism of some sort, right?
36:06So it's like uh input, data capture,
36:08whatever. Uh when a Gentic AI really
36:13does reach a tipping point,
36:16you won't need to be in front of a
36:17screen unless you actually want to see
36:19something. So you and I are seeing each
36:20other's face right now. This would
36:22probably be a good use for a screen. you
36:23want to watch a movie even then I kind
36:25of wonder but everything else from
36:28sending an email communication that
36:30would absolutely be screenless now
36:32that's just a voice mechanism of you
36:33saying hey let Greg know I'm running 10
36:35minutes late and you don't get to choose
36:37if it's iMes or email or WhatsApp or
36:40Facebook the AI knows oh kasum talks to
36:43Greg via messenger or kasum was
36:45introduced to Greg by this person and
36:47now it needs to go through this conduit
36:48in that way so the the on a long enough
36:52timeline online. It's really interesting
36:55because we had this it was it's almost
36:57like universes expand and collapse. The
36:59birth of the internet was the big bang
37:02in the digital universe and then it did
37:04this massive expansion this light speed
37:06expansion and it just grew at a break
37:08neck pace and and then it reached this
37:12threshold this critical mass where AI
37:15you know I don't know what it's like u
37:18the immaculate conception in so many
37:20ways isn't it? It's like stretch this
37:22metaphor horribly, but AI was birthed
37:25and then AI caused the collapse.
37:30And you see that with chat GBT, the
37:33difference between Google and ChatGpt is
37:35staggering and people don't realize it.
37:37Google is like a spaceship that you use
37:40to take you to different corners of the
37:42universe. ChatGpt is a tool that you use
37:45to bring the universe back to you. And
37:48so this the expansion of the universe
37:50has now stopped and now we're looking at
37:52the collapse from our perspective and
37:54paradigm. Will the universe of
37:55information continue to expand? Sure, of
37:57course. But you're not going to be going
37:59to those corners. It's going to be
38:00coming back to you, which is why it's
38:01collapsed. It's like the gravity's
38:03collapsing in on itself. Um, which is
38:05really interesting.
38:08The generation right after mine, I'm
38:10four years old. The generation right
38:12after mine is the last generation I
38:14believe
38:16that will need to know how to really use
38:18a computer.
38:20>> Mhm. Everything after that
38:24the computer will use you. You know like
38:26my kids they do it now. They just talk
38:28to the machine and the machine gives
38:30them everything that they want and they
38:31need.
38:32>> They don't have to be intuitive or
38:34thoughtful or creative. You know like
38:35they right out of the gate the machine's
38:37more intuitive or thoughtful or creative
38:39than that is necessary to meet whatever
38:41demands and needs they have and as they
38:42grow their demands and needs will grow
38:44but so too will computational power. So
38:46yeah I think that all these uh anthropic
38:51which is claude and GBT and Gemini and
38:54you know on and on and on you you know
38:57there's been a lot of um discussion
39:00about um them hallucinating. Okay. So
39:04yes, it and it's true. I've noticed the
39:07ones that you use more frequently know
39:11you better.
39:12>> The ones you don't don't. And when you
39:15do pick up a new one to use that you
39:17haven't been to in a while, it actually
39:20hallucinates way more.
39:22>> This is just my own personal experience.
39:23I don't know what it's like for anybody
39:25else, but the reality is there is a it's
39:28a challenge and you've really got to
39:29watch it. Um, I think we're still in an
39:32era where the human brain is necessary
39:38to actually audit the information that
39:41then gets generated by AI. When I say
39:44audit, I mean at least look at it. Now,
39:47we could say, well, I'm totally
39:48dependent on it sending out. You even
39:50mentioned it before. Well, if somebody
39:52sends me an email and it's effed up, I'm
39:55not going to be very happy with the work
39:56they're putting out, right? Um, and the
39:59reality is when you're dealing with
40:00multiple areas where it's drawing data
40:03from, it has to draw that data and then
40:05synthesize it and put it together into
40:07something that can be put back out
40:09again. But I love where you're going
40:11with this. I mean, I think this book uh,
40:13hire everybody should get go to the
40:15website and get it. I want to kind of
40:18wrap this up with you because you end
40:21the book by saying I love you to the
40:23readers. Okay. Um it was uh Herb
40:27Kellaher with Southwest was the guy that
40:30was known for saying I love you and
40:32giving out M&M's to all of his
40:34employees. That's pretty vulnerable for
40:37a business book. What role does genuine
40:40care play in your hiring and leadership
40:42philosophy? I think we've heard it from
40:45you and bits and pieces of this podcast
40:47so far because it is. But you're also an
40:52extremely articulate and analytic
40:55person. I see that. And then I see this
40:58real soft side of you, which is this
41:00compassionate, loving, understanding
41:03individual who realizes that the more
41:06compassion he gives to people on the
41:08human side, actually, the better the
41:12relationship's going to be. Why' you end
41:14it with I love you, and why did you want
41:17to be so vulnerable?
41:19Uh the book's about people, you know. I
41:22mean, at the end of the day,
41:24especially with the the discussion
41:26regarding AI,
41:30the difference between a person and
41:34and whatever else might accomplish a
41:36task,
41:39I think narrows down to feeling. And uh
41:43my three core values are truth,
41:45responsibility, and love. And I think
41:48>> repeat them again. Truth
41:49>> truth, truth, responsibility, and love.
41:51>> Okay.
41:52>> And uh I think love is, you know, what
41:55is how does the saying go and the
41:56greatest is love? I don't I don't think
41:58if you're doing it with love, it's worth
42:00doing it all. And Jul Jabbron has a a
42:02really good quote. He says, "Work is
42:03love made visible."
42:04>> Right?
42:05>> And so as we're working, I actually
42:06think we're showing love. And people,
42:08you know, could be repelled by that
42:10statement, but I I I find it to be very
42:12true. And so in this endeavor, my hope
42:15for the reader is that they find someone
42:16they can love and who loves them because
42:18that's what that relationship is in so
42:20many ways. If you really love your
42:21employees, you know, and most most good
42:24employers I know really do. Um I think
42:26the way you treat them is different and
42:28they end up loving you too. And
42:29everybody's pretty uncomfortable saying
42:31it that way, especially the English
42:32language doesn't do credence to the word
42:34love. The Greeks, I think, probably did
42:35it the best. um you know the Arabs and
42:38the Persians and the the Hindus all have
42:41like you know there's hundreds of
42:42thousands of different types and
42:43delineations of love and love between
42:45different roles. There's love between
42:47parents is different than love between
42:48children is different than love between
42:50friends is different between love
42:51between um soldiers. You know if you're
42:53in a foxhole with somebody that's a very
42:54very very different love. Uh I think
42:57that the employer employee relationship
42:59needs to be loving
43:01and the most productive ones that I've
43:02had are.
43:04That is a a a I think it's a great way
43:08to wrap up this interview. We're going
43:10to encourage the listeners to go get the
43:13book higher. You can get it at tell us
43:16the website again you want them to go to
43:18because they're going to get not only
43:19the book and like you said this isn't
43:22for you to collect their information and
43:24get them on some list and try and
43:26prospect them for something. I will tell
43:28my listeners who trust in me, it's been
43:32a long time since I've had someone come
43:34on the show with as clear and as
43:37articulate as a message as you and be
43:41able to tell or I should say inspire
43:45people to look at this world in a
43:47different way, especially when it comes
43:49to hiring because your whole first part
43:52of this interview was all about, you
43:54know, pay them what they deserve to be
43:56paid, right? And like you said, most of
43:59the bean counters don't look at it that
44:01way. We're going to see how much we can
44:02pull out of them. What you want to do is
44:05you want to see how much they will give
44:07of themselves. Uh, and I think that's
44:09the biggest difference. So, what's the
44:11website they can go to get higher? Uh,
44:14where would you like them go to leave
44:15information? Uh, and so on.
44:18>> They can go to thehirebook.com.
44:20The higherbook.com.
44:21>> Okay. And that'll be in our show notes
44:23below. Thehirebook.com.
44:25And what about prao talent? Is it
44:27>> if you want to hire an EA from me, we
44:29find, train, and staff EAs. It takes a
44:31thousand applicants to produce one
44:33executive assistant. I think I have the
44:35best people in the whole wide world. And
44:37you don't have to go through us. What I
44:38give you in the book is the exact
44:40framework I use to find these people.
44:41So, if you want, you know, if you want
44:43the fast and easy button, hire through
44:45me. Uh, but I'm a premium. Uh, as you
44:48would expect, if you want to do it
44:50yourself and save some money, the book
44:52has everything. Well, save money but not
44:55time.
44:56>> Save money but not time. Yeah, exactly.
44:58Who's to say which is worth more?
44:59>> The precious commodity is our time.
45:01>> And Kazim, I want to thank you for your
45:03time. Namaste to you. Thanks for being
45:06on and sharing your words of wisdom with
45:08our listeners about your new book. Uh
45:11you can also we'll have links to all of
45:13the previous books as well uh back to
45:15Amazon in the show notes. So please look
45:17below for those. Cassim, thanks so much
45:20for being on Inside Personal Growth and
45:22sharing a little bit of time with us
45:24about your new book, your philosophy,
45:27and how you hire people. I appreciate
45:29it.
45:29>> Thanks for having me, Greg. I appreciate
45:31you.

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