You Are Better Off in Johannesburg Than London. — Transcript

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1. 0:00We write this column in the Common Sense
2. 0:03um
3. 0:04published in South Africa a few days ago
4. 0:06that you're much better off
5. 0:08actually living in Johannesburg than
6. 0:10living in London. And I I I looked into
7. 0:13a lot of the data around that and it was
8. 0:14really interesting. In
9. 0:16if if you're a young professional living
10. 0:18in London today
11. 0:20it appears that you you you're going to
12. 0:21look to spend 50% plus
13. 0:24approaching 60% of your income on rent
14. 0:27to to have somewhere to live in. There's
15. 0:30no way that you're going to buy
16. 0:32a property. It's just not even a
17. 0:34a thought, an option.
18. 0:36Um
19. 0:37if you if you're that same young
20. 0:39professional living in in Johannesburg,
21. 0:41you
22. 0:42you'd easily you're going to spend a
23. 0:43third of your income, maybe even down to
24. 0:45a quarter if you're a bit frugal, on
25. 0:47rent. And if you want to buy an
26. 0:48apartment to live in, it's the easiest
27. 0:50thing in the world. You'll walk right
28. 0:51into a a bank and get financed if you
29. 0:53have if you have the right salary and so
30. 0:55on.
31. 0:57National health uh here in in the UK
32. 1:00>> Not great.
33. 1:00>> 26%
34. 1:02of respondents in a survey last year
35. 1:03said they were satisfied
36. 1:05with the service that they were getting.
37. 1:08In SA, if you're a young professional,
38. 1:10you've got access to our world-class
39. 1:12private health care.
40. 1:13Um you you are never more than minutes
41. 1:15away
42. 1:17from the best people in the world.
43. 1:19And it's actually in the relative order
44. 1:20of things relatively cheap to get to get
45. 1:23access to get access to that.
46. 1:25So, that's the second one. The third
47. 1:26one, just basic cost of living.
48. 1:28Like with like comparison London to
49. 1:31Johannesburg
50. 1:32it costs half as much to buy a hamburger
51. 1:35in Johannesburg or get a Netflix
52. 1:37subscription.
53. 1:39And and the the final piece that we put
54. 1:41together and then Reena back in
55. 1:43Johannesburg said people were very
56. 1:45divided over this opinion of ours.
57. 1:47Is that in in South Africa you can say
58. 1:49whatever you like. Um
59. 1:52and and nothing happens. Here, if you're
60. 1:53a comedian and and and you make the
61. 1:55wrong
62. 1:56the wrong joke, the the police are
63. 1:58waiting for you at the airport.
64. 2:00And you get held off into custody.
65. 2:02And it's actually been amazing to sit
66. 2:04here because you guys all live around
67. 2:06the world. I live in SA mostly.
68. 2:08But to just be here and just think
69. 2:10through that for a whole week and
70. 2:11realize that in many respects young
71. 2:13professionals in South Africa today
72. 2:16are actually getting a really really
73. 2:18good deal relative to what might be the
74. 2:20case for them in some of the world's
75. 2:22kind of greater cities.
76. 2:24>> Yeah, I think the majority of the
77. 2:25respondents respectfully have got it
78. 2:27wrong. They have said the South Africa's
79. 2:30unemployment rate and they've pulled up
80. 2:32means to criticize that way. But the
81. 2:35reality is that France is 100% correct
82. 2:37and they're not initiated in the art of
83. 2:39state briefing. They don't have they
84. 2:41don't possess the initiative here
85. 2:43because they've never had to. So
86. 2:45the path to
87. 2:47the middle class was almost guaranteed
88. 2:49university
89. 2:51almost guaranteed job and things are
90. 2:53changing and they are they they they
91. 2:56they're not um familiar with with what
92. 2:58needs what they need to do to evade
93. 3:00these things that um South Africans have
94. 3:03been doing for the last 30 40 years.
95. 3:05>> And one one of the things I thought
96. 3:06about here too is Richard and I have
97. 3:08been going around. We've been looking at
98. 3:11at think tanks in the UK.
99. 3:13We've been meeting with some people
100. 3:15around the politics.
101. 3:17And um I mean the you the UK seems to be
102. 3:20in in in a mess in many respects and you
103. 3:22said some good guys on the conservative
104. 3:24side.
105. 3:25Uh
106. 3:26doing doing a great job kind of what are
107. 3:28your what what are your prospects for
108. 3:30success? What what is the plan? And then
109. 3:32in the fullness of time I think things
110. 3:33can come right here.
111. 3:35But but you get this this you you you
112. 3:37you you don't get very many kind of
113. 3:39compelling answers that that that it's
114. 3:42going to come right here in the
115. 3:44immediate in the immediate future.
116. 3:47And and what what I've felt about some
117. 3:49of that was that it's it's in a sense
118. 3:51waiting to fix the politics, yeah,
119. 3:54before society, the culture, and the
120. 3:56economy can come right.
121. 3:58And and South Africa is busy with
122. 4:00something very different that we we
123. 4:01stressing over and over again in our
124. 4:03writing which which is on clay
125. 4:05formation.
126. 4:06That that the people have moved past the
127. 4:07politics in many respects and they they
128. 4:09taking um
129. 4:11functions that were once those of the
130. 4:13state upon themselves.
131. 4:14And they starting to execute those
132. 4:16functions. And with great success. And
133. 4:19and in in the middle classes when our
134. 4:21confident is saying or I'm confident at
135. 4:23least in saying that
136. 4:24that it's very likely that if you're a a
137. 4:26middle-class South African today
138. 4:29and you understand the the the enclave
139. 4:31thing and you lean into that that where
140. 4:33the state recedes you're going to take
141. 4:35over more of its functions.
142. 4:37That you'll very probably have a great
143. 4:40um successful, prosperous, fairly
144. 4:43fulfilling life generation after
145. 4:45generation into future South Africa.
146. 4:48Which means you don't actually have to
147. 4:49wait for the politics to be fixed in in
148. 4:51order for it to come right. Here I think
149. 4:52the prospects are almost more difficult.
150. 4:55Because that same degree of independence
151. 4:57isn't there. I I mean I I was told by
152. 4:59someone here of of um
153. 5:01of cutting your own shrubbery and having
154. 5:03the council try and I don't know do
155. 5:05something to find you or something cuz
156. 5:06you you weren't meant to cut that bush
157. 5:08or someone told me about trying to clean
158. 5:10a road sign.
159. 5:12>> Yes.
160. 5:12>> And being told you may not clean a road
161. 5:14sign that's a government's job to clean
162. 5:16road signs. You can't do that.
163. 5:18And so again I mean I I do get it on the
164. 5:20South Africa side if you if you exposed
165. 5:22to a lot of the problems there that you
166. 5:24might you instinct might be hey how can
167. 5:26these guys possibly make this claim? But
168. 5:28actually on the kind of hard facts of
169. 5:31the case I think there's there's there's
170. 5:32no doubt that
171. 5:34South African young professionals
172. 5:36prospects living in that country now at
173. 5:38the very least rival what they'll get in
174. 5:40much of the rest of the world and and
175. 5:42very easily beat I think what they're
176. 5:44going to get over here.
177. 5:45>> I do think that you underplay the crime
178. 5:47issue. It comes at the end as a bit of a
179. 5:49throwaway. When I talked to people in
180. 5:51the US, we can hear that I know 11
181. 5:53people have been murdered. Friends of
182. 5:54mine or friends of my parents. They're
183. 5:56astonished. Most people don't know a
184. 5:58single person who's been murdered or
185. 5:59even had a gun put in their face. So, I
186. 6:01think you do
187. 6:02you I think if I can push back and you
188. 6:05make some very good points.
189. 6:07But that safety factor is a huge issue.
190. 6:09People should be able to go to sleep at
191. 6:11night and feel safe. I'm not sure that's
192. 6:13true. Maybe in some of the very
193. 6:15controlled enclaves.
194. 6:17But for a lot of people, that's not
195. 6:19true. And even when you have to leave
196. 6:20the enclave, you've described it running
197. 6:22the gauntlet.
198. 6:22>> Yeah.
199. 6:23>> So, let's
200. 6:24>> That's absolutely right. I think that
201. 6:26you completely I think that's the one
202. 6:27thing.
203. 6:28>> But it's a big thing.
204. 6:29>> No, no, no, no, I know because you could
205. 6:31be killed.
206. 6:32>> Yes.
207. 6:33>> Except for that you could be killed.
208. 6:36Um going from your home to your to your
209. 6:39office.
210. 6:40>> Yes.
211. 6:40>> Except for that.
212. 6:42Um the the case holds and I think maybe
213. 6:44that's that's one of the big reasons why
214. 6:47but years ago we did our first 20 years
215. 6:50ago our first work in immigration and we
216. 6:52estimated that um we estimated in terms
217. 6:54of of whites then but it was then just a
218. 6:57proxy for the middle classes that
219. 6:59that vast a vast number had left. So
220. 7:01many had left in fact after '94
221. 7:04that there were more whites aged 60 to
222. 7:0765 than 30 to 34 in South Africa.
223. 7:10And we knew they'd left permanently
224. 7:12because we could see that 30 years after
225. 7:15them in the demographic data, the number
226. 7:17of children being born was falling. So,
227. 7:19they hadn't just gone for a holiday.
228. 7:21>> Mhm.
229. 7:22>> They they'd settled. And when we looked
230. 7:24at the circles of why they'd left in the
231. 7:25'90s, one was the perception that that
232. 7:28was it was volatile.
233. 7:30The second thing was the opportunity to
234. 7:32go which they often hadn't had before.
235. 7:34But the third part of the circle is what
236. 7:36you say that where they had been exposed
237. 7:38to these horrific incidents of violent
238. 7:41crime which which um
239. 7:43yeah. I mean, I can remember sitting
240. 7:44with my American
241. 7:46family at a Thanksgiving dinner or so
242. 7:48and asking if you've talking about this,
243. 7:50have you ever been the victim of a
244. 7:51crime? I don't anyone had ever been the
245. 7:53victim of a crime.
246. 7:54>> Yeah.
247. 7:54>> You know,
248. 7:55let alone the kind of wild and violent
249. 7:58stuff that that that South Africans
250. 8:00endure or or often. But in the enclaves,
251. 8:03though,
252. 8:04I mean, there there are now examples of
253. 8:05enclaves which have private security
254. 8:08services that are so specialized and so
255. 8:11good at what they do
256. 8:13that, um,
257. 8:14if you take something like the murder
258. 8:15rate as as a proxy,
259. 8:18those within those enclaves, the murder
260. 8:20rate you could estimate at the same
261. 8:22level as that of the European Union. But
262. 8:24then you're inside the walls.
263. 8:25>> Mhm. Yeah. [clears throat]
264. 8:26>> And when you get out and you've got to
265. 8:27run you've got to run the gauntlet. And
266. 8:30and and what's what's great here when
267. 8:33I'm I'm here or if you're in in
268. 8:35Washington,
269. 8:36is is is which is the sort of two places
270. 8:39I hang out,
271. 8:40is that you can walk.
272. 8:42>> Mhm.
273. 8:42>> You can walk from dinner back to back to
274. 8:44where you go. And and you do so fairly
275. 8:46safely.