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Xavier Dolan | Ouvre ton jeu avec Marie-Claude Barrette — Transcript

by Marie-Claude Barrette · 17,030 words · 2,587 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Hello everyone. Welcome to Ouvre ton
0:02jeu in the studio. And if I say in the
0:05studio, it’s because the last Ouvre
0:08ton jeu on stage will take place on
0:11December 7th at the Octave Crémazie
0:14hall in Quebec City, and the guest is
0:17Mathieu Dufour. Mathieu has already
0:20been on Ouvre ton jeu in the studio,
0:22and when he saw that we were doing it
0:23on stage, he told me, "No, I want to do
0:25it on stage too." Actually, there are
0:28other guests who want to come back a
0:30second time. Obviously, for a second
0:31time, it's fun to do it on stage, as we
0:33also did with Janette Bertrand. There
0:35are tickets left; it's only on December
0:387th. But if you want to make sure you
0:40get a good seat, you can buy your
0:41tickets now at ouvretonjeusurscene.ca.
0:45And I can tell you that when we do it
0:46this way, well, first of all, I meet
0:48all the Marie Club members. We hold a
0:50VIP cocktail hour with the members from
0:531:00 PM to 2:00 PM. After that, the
0:57Ouvre ton jeu on stage is at 3:00 PM,
0:58and for roughly the first 20 to 25
1:00minutes, I draw people's names. You put
1:03your name in a box, and if I draw you,
1:05you come up on stage, you choose an
1:08Ouvre ton jeu level, and you answer one
1:10of the questions, which leads to
1:12incredible moments. So, it makes it
1:16interactive with you, the audience, and
1:19I just love doing it this way.
1:22There’s a kind of improvisation to it
1:24, but at the same time, it’s based on
1:26the story of the person in front of me.
1:28And sometimes, there are even standing
1:30ovations following the "Ouvre ton jeu"
1:32of certain people who agree to come up
1:34on stage. And what's more, there’s
1:38another box where you can write
1:39questions for the guest—in this case,
1:41for Mathieu Dufour—and there’s a
1:43blue level on stage, and that level
1:45consists of the five questions that
1:47Mathieu draws. He chooses one, and so
1:51it’s the audience and intimacy level.
1:56These are different "Ouvre ton jeu"
1:58sessions, but it’s nice to have
1:59special editions too. So, I hope that
2:02those of you in the greater Quebec City
2:04area will feel like coming to see us.
2:06And besides, it's a very large hall, I
2:08really like the Octave Crémazie hall.
2:10So, I would love for it to be full. So,
2:13come, maybe bring some friends along. I
2:16think you’re going to have a lovely
2:17afternoon. It's a Sunday at 3:00 p.m.
2:20It ends around 5:30 p.m., then we leave
2:21, and I don't know, every time people
2:23stay for a long time to meet us
2:25afterwards, and it's always such
2:26beautiful moments. So there you go, I
2:29wanted to talk about that. Obviously
2:32our partner Karine Joncas, you know
2:34Karine has been a partner since the
2:36very beginning of the podcast, and what
2:38I admire about Karine Joncas is that
2:40she's a businesswoman who runs a
2:42company with her husband, and it's
2:44truly a completely Quebec-based family
2:46business. And when I say that, it's
2:51them: they are certified "made in
2:53Quebec" because from the ideation to
2:56the design of the little jar, the box,
2:59and the final product, everything is
3:02now made in Quebec. And I think we must
3:05highlight this effort to keep people
3:07working in Quebec and to have products
3:10that are entirely from Quebec. So
3:13Karine is present in 1,000 points of
3:15sale, so she's easy to find. And if you
3:18go to her website, well, she offers 15%
3:21off, and the promo code is Ouvre ton
3:23jeu 15. And Rose des Compagnons too,
3:26they have several boutiques across
3:28Quebec. You can obviously go there in
3:31person, but if you prefer to head to
3:34their website to make purchases, well,
3:37the promo code is ROSE 15 for 15%off.
3:41Opto-Réseau, as a reminder, is 86
3:43clinics owned by independent owners
3:46across Quebec. So it's always good to
3:50go and get an eye exam. And, as I was
3:53saying the other day, I find it
3:55interesting to mention that they have
3:58lenses that can help you if you play
4:00pickleball and perhaps your vision is
4:02an issue and you don't dare wear your
4:05frames; well, they have contact lenses
4:07suitable for you. That's what I was
4:09told the other day. I'm sharing this in
4:11a really personal way because they told
4:13me about it the other day. I have so
4:15many people in my circle of friends who
4:17have taken up pickleball. I think to
4:19myself, well, maybe it's an issue for
4:21many and I don't know it. So I wanted
4:24to spread the good news. We also have
4:28Spaa Eastman, which is a partner of
4:30Ouvre ton jeu. The Spa I would say is
4:35iconic among spas in Quebec. It was one
4:37of the first. They have been around. I
4:40have the date somewhere, just a moment,
4:41because I didn't think it had been that
4:43long. They were founded in 1977. So, I
4:49can't believe they've been around for
4:50that long. I go there on a regular
4:53basis because they have great tonic
4:55cuisine. So for those who have
4:58intolerances or whatever, it's
5:00something that is very, very good for
5:02your health. You eat very well, by the
5:04way. There's a wonderful wine cellar
5:06too when you visit that place. But
5:08what’s special is that you can stay
5:10there. They really have uh incredible
5:13cabins in the heart of nature. And so
5:17you can stay for a few days, have a
5:19wellness retreat. Uh here are my
5:22colleagues who are so valuable for
5:24every recording. Caroline Dion on
5:26coordination, Jérémie Boucher for
5:28social media, Elisabeth Lemieux for
5:30online posting, Jonathan Fréchette for
5:32digital creation, and Maël Le Devin
5:35for filming. Today is a big day because
5:39, actually, I’ve already done the
5:41recording—we didn't have time to do
5:43the intro before, but that’s okay
5:45because it lets me tell you about it
5:47since I finished it earlier. Uh I’m
5:52hosting someone I’ve been looking
5:54forward to interviewing for over 15
5:56years, and in every interview I’ve
5:58done, people would ask me, "Who do you
6:00dream of interviewing?" And I would
6:03systematically answer his name. It’s
6:05Xavier Dolan. Uh he’s someone who
6:08impressed me early in his career when
6:10he—when I saw the film "I Killed My
6:13Mother." I wanted to know who wrote
6:15that. How could a young man already
6:17have those reflections, have such
6:19perspective on what he might have lived
6:21through? I had the feeling there was
6:24something autobiographical in that film
6:26, and I always wanted to have him on,
6:28but for all sorts of reasons, it didn't
6:30work out. And now uh he came today to
6:34do "Ouvre ton jeu." It’s a—for me,
6:38there are moments like this that are
6:40exciting. It’s like making a wish
6:43come true, but doing it professionally,
6:45and I’m always happy to host everyone
6:47who sits in front of me. But him, let's
6:51say, he made me wait, and I think it
6:54was worth it to wait this long to have
6:56him on. Uh I—you will see, right,
7:00he’s someone real, authentic, who has
7:02great passion. He’s someone who has a
7:07bit of rebellion inside him, but he was
7:09so generous with "Ouvre ton jeu," he
7:12really came to do it. He wanted to be
7:15there, and I am thrilled about it. I am
7:18so happy to have had him on. So, I
7:20can't wait to present this to you. So,
7:23let's get right to it and welcome
7:25Xavier Dolan. Were you ever a child?
7:29Not for long. Uh, not for long. It's
7:35it's between the ages of 1 and 4 or 5.
7:43And then afterwards, it was a mix of
7:48all kinds of eras, all kinds of
7:50backgrounds, environments. But I think
7:56we left the territory of childhood
7:58behind. "Ouvre ton jeu" is presented by
8:09Karine Joncas, the reference in
8:10skincare, available in nearly 1,000
8:13pharmacies in Quebec, and by Le
8:15Marieclob, a space dedicated to
8:17well-being where you can find over a
8:19hundred masterclasses led by experts,
8:21available on mariecloude.com. The board
8:26games "Ouvre ton jeu" original and the
8:28couple edition are available everywhere
8:31in Quebec and on Randolph.ca. We're
8:35good.
8:36Everything is great. We can say you
8:38aren't an amputee, it's up to you.
8:39Yeah, perfect. Well, I'm not an amputee
8:42.
8:42Big news.
8:43No, but I'd like to start with that. I
8:46I like to put a foot under my my butt,
8:48the left one, the right one, it doesn't
8:50matter. But I don't know, that's just
8:53how it is. Even if I put my leg on the
8:56floor, it would definitely end up back
8:59under my my my my butt.
9:01That's a lovely introduction to our
9:03meeting. But hi Xavier Dolan. Hi.
9:07Uh, I said it right from the start in
9:09the opening, though you weren't there
9:10for the opening, but I was saying how
9:11much I was waiting for you. Like Daniel
9:14Bélanger in his song. I was waiting
9:16for you, and for years, honestly. So to
9:20have you here, I see it as a great
9:22privilege, a great privilege also to do
9:24this job, to be an interviewer and to
9:27have the honor of meeting someone like
9:29you. Well, that's extremely flattering
9:33and I'm very happy to be here. And, uh,
9:36like I told you earlier when we were
9:38when we were talking, uh, when I
9:39arrived, I like the game, I I play it,
9:41I'm not sure if I'm playing it
9:43correctly, but I play with a friend who
9:45who gave it to me, so, uh, there you go
9:47, I'm looking forward to understanding
9:50lots of little nuances.
9:51Yeah, and you know, for me, rules are
9:53always, it's good to know the rules so
9:55we can break them.
9:56Exactly. I always like to know what the
9:58convention is, so if I don't want to
10:00follow it, I won't be ignorant. I'll
10:01have done it, I'll have done it on
10:03purpose.
10:03But that's it. So I had, in order to
10:04break them better, I broke them before
10:06I knew them. So let's invert the the
10:08But you didn't see what's written. Tell
10:10me, how are you doing? Very well, very,
10:13very well. Uh, I don't know if this is
10:16coming through. What’s the what’s
10:18the what’s the timeframe between now
10:20and I have to act as if, uh, I’m 37
10:22now, and it’s going to be, like, in
10:24two or three weeks, something like that
10:26, let’s say three weeks. Look,
10:28what’s keeping me busy right now is
10:30that I’m I’m shooting a commercial
10:32that’s taking up all my time and
10:34energy, but it’s very positive. But
10:37otherwise, outside of that, because you
10:40know, that’s the thing: I can go
10:42months, a year, a year and a half
10:44without working, and then, suddenly,
10:46poof, something comes in, and it’s
10:48extremely demanding and energy-draining
10:51, whereas before I was, I was just kind
10:53of slacking off, just waiting around
10:55playing Alto’s Odyssey on my phone in
10:58my living room for something to happen.
11:01And so, yeah, that’s it, but
11:03otherwise, apart from this little gig
11:05that’s pretty intense. Uh, things are
11:08going great. Uh, the the mental, the
11:12physical, all of that.
11:15Are you are you often in that state?
11:19Uh, it had been a long time since I had
11:21been. Yeah.
11:23What were you missing?
11:27Uh serenity. Serenity. serenity uh the
11:39the I’m trying to find the word, a
11:44hygiene a mental and physical hygiene.
11:47I can’t say that I I wasn’t washing
11:49myself. No, but ever since I started
11:52taking showers, things are going so
11:53much better now. I discovered a whole a
11:57world of No, no, but uh a lifestyle and
12:00and habits, you know, like sports, like
12:03the gym,
12:06Reconnecting with people to talk to
12:08like my therapist, like my you know,
12:11it’s...it makes me...it makes me very
12:13happy and it allows me to...to confide
12:15in someone and to...to keep a kind of
12:17journal, in a way, of where I’m at,
12:19what I need, and what I don’t need
12:22anymore, too. A lot of things have
12:25happened. Did you feel like you needed
12:27to let the dust settle to actually see
12:29clearly?
12:30But it’s because there’s a lot of
12:32there’s a lot of there’s a lot of
12:34settling. There has been a lot of dust
12:35settling, you know. It’s like it’s
12:38been a long time now. I feel like I've
12:40been fighting against various things
12:42for several years, and for several
12:43years, I've had to let the dust settle.
12:46It's like it keeps coming back all the
12:47time. There's always something, but as
12:49soon as you move, you stir up a lot of
12:50things, basically.
12:52Because you are reactive, you provoke
12:53—you provoke without meaning to. And
12:55I appreciate that about you a lot. You
12:59know, there are people we might
13:00consider rebels, but they do it
13:02intentionally.
13:04They act—they aren't actually rebels.
13:06It's that they are performing rebellion
13:08.
13:09Exactly. You, I get the impression that
13:11...I don't know if we can say rebel, I
13:13find that a bit strong, but still,
13:14there's something there. I think we can
13:16see you that way, we can say that. You
13:18aren't...You recognize yourself in that
13:19, but it's embodied, it's who you are
13:21deeply, and on your own, you're not
13:23like that. It's when you're in contact
13:25with others that it causes a reaction.
13:28Yeah, but that's just it, there's no
13:30intention. I don't—I don't need to
13:33get a reaction. I don't need to provoke
13:35. I don't think about it. It's not
13:37strategic. It's not part of an image or
13:40career strategy, you know. I just want
13:43to talk about what moves me. I want to
13:48defend the causes I care about, expose
13:50the problems that enrage me, and then
13:53...fix some things, expose others. But
14:01it's not for show, you know. It's an
14:03instinct, it's a need. So, yes, I am a
14:08reactive person, I am a hot-blooded
14:11person because everything I do in life,
14:14I do it wholeheartedly, lovingly,
14:16ardently, and...excessively. So, it's a
14:23bit of the...it's a bit the story of my
14:29life, learning to tame those instincts,
14:33those passions, to pick my moments—
14:36you know, to sometimes roar, and other
14:40times to keep quiet. It's very
14:45difficult. And...when you're a public
14:49figure, well...there are an enormous
14:53amount of things you don't control. So
14:57you are reacting to things you didn't
14:59choose and at times you didn't choose.
15:04So, let's just say we don't exercise a
15:08lot of control. Yes. On, uh, on, on our
15:13lives necessarily, and then on, uh, on
15:15the, the, the moment of reaction, the
15:18reaction time, the, the, you know,
15:20people who don't have to deal with,
15:22with a public image or with, you know,
15:25who have complete privacy, they can do
15:27whatever they want, you know, no one
15:30will ever know. And uh they don't have
15:33to they don't have to account, sorry uh
15:35to anyone, they're not accountable.
15:37No.
15:37But at the same time, uh, what I'm
15:39hearing right now is that you've
15:41established a routine and you control
15:43that routine.
15:44Exactly. But that's it, when talking
15:48about control, it's about accepting
15:50exactly what I control and what
15:53and what I don't control.
15:54But you have to have some control to
15:55start with. So you've sort of regained
15:57control over your daily life, in any
15:58case. And and over my daily life, and
16:01specifically in the acceptance of...
16:05sometimes I realize that I've, well not
16:08sometimes, I realize that I've long
16:10been in a fight against problems and
16:13that, in adversity, I wanted to find
16:15someone to blame or or I was just
16:18pissed off that something wasn't
16:20working: "Dammit, why isn't this
16:22working? It should." And I realize to
16:26what extent...Uh,
16:30you spent to what extent Yes. To what
16:32extent you spent you spent so much
16:33energy on that.
16:34Yeah. Yeah. Whereas I could have
16:37invested that energy into resolving
16:40those problems. And finally, well, and
16:42it can be big problems just as much as
16:43small problems, you know. On a film set
16:45, for example, you always have little
16:48things that, that...And at some point,
16:50well, we can fret and, and uh, uh, get
16:57annoyed and, and be pissed off, but
16:58there's nothing more effective,
17:00honestly, than finding a solution and
17:01not being in reaction mode, being in
17:03resolution mode, you know.
17:05Are you ready to open up your game? Are
17:06you ready to
17:08I've been here for an hour and I
17:09started that sentence. There we go. So,
17:11the green level is, excuse me, general
17:15questions. Yellow level, those are more
17:17specific questions. Red level, those
17:19are personal questions. The question
17:21for the Patreon level is the space
17:22question. The level is intimate and
17:25sexual company. And the Optoro question
17:29is the one The one that always is the
17:35last question and we always leave on a
17:37good note with that one. And do you
17:39have your Joker? So if at any point you
17:42just
17:42yes, you only have one. So you know, if
17:44you don't want to answer anymore, you
17:45want to move on. As soon as you play it
17:47, I'll move on to another call, another
17:49question.
17:50So you can shuffle them on the table,
17:51these cards are actually quite big.
17:53You're going to give me five.
17:55Uh
17:55have you ever
17:56five? I'll give you five in total.
17:58Yeah. Have you ever had your cards read
18:00or
18:01Oh yes
18:01yeah.
18:02Do you go regularly or
18:03I don't go? Someone did it for me
18:06recently. a massage therapist, it was
18:09it was great. And well, it was tarot
18:12and uh it was impressive how much there
18:15was an alignment, not an alignment of "
18:17Oh, I want this to be true" and then it
18:20works, no, it was really
18:23stunning how much
18:25it worked, you know.
18:26Okay, you're going to give me that.
18:28I've shuffled that. But do you want me
18:29to shuffle all the piles
18:30later? Yeah. One at a time.
18:32Okay. Now I'll give you
18:34f
18:35green ones.
18:36Green five green ones.
18:42Wait, wait. Okay. Those two.
18:44Yeah, there aren't that many, right?
18:48There are only three left.
18:49Well, there you go. So, I'm going to
18:50read them to you.
18:51I'll put this here.
18:52You can put them over there, we won't
18:53need them anymore.
18:54You're going to I'm going to read them
18:54to you. You'll choose one that you'll
18:56answer and then I'll choose one that
18:58you'll have to answer.
18:59Okay.
19:00We'll answer two questions from this
19:01set. How much importance do you place
19:02on the opinions of others? What role
19:04does friendship play in your life? What
19:07is your worst flaw? How do you react to
19:10authority? What are you most often
19:13criticized for? Hm
19:17hm. You're the one who prepared all
19:19these lovely questions for me, right?
19:21Yes.
19:21H you know me well. Maybe even better
19:27than I know myself.
19:30Uh, I'll choose one.
19:32Yeah. Uh well look, I'm going to take
19:48I'm actually hesitating between one
19:50that is like more antagonizing, more
19:52confrontational for me uh or one that
19:54is that is that is easier. I don't know
19:58what to do.
20:00You can use a lifeline. But
20:07I'll take what I I I have a morbid
20:10curiosity about what is your worst flaw
20:13but I wouldn't know which to choose, so
20:19I want to take what place friendship
20:22has in your life.
20:23Perfect.
20:28So can you answer what place friendship
20:29has in your life? Huge. Uh in in really
20:40, friendship takes up a really huge
20:43place in my life. I have always had
20:50friends who have been be be beacons, in
20:59fact, in the night, in the storm, but
21:01also landmarks even in times of calm,
21:04you know. I have always gravitated
21:07toward friendship. Family is very I
21:09imagine we always contrast it: if
21:11it’s not friendship, then it’s
21:13family. We often tend to compare them.
21:17Uh, it’s not that I compare them
21:19because I have very strong bonds with
21:21my family, both families, my father's
21:22side, my family and my mother's, my
21:24family in general. You see, I’m
21:27changing positions here, I have no more
21:29circulation in my leg. But turning
21:35toward friendship for a need for
21:42comfort, for peace, for solace. Uh,
21:47it's something I have always done.
21:49Seeking the advice, the opinion of
21:51friends uh uh on my projects, on my
21:57loves, on uh, I've never been someone
22:00who keeps things to themselves,
22:02obviously.
22:04But do you have long-time friends who
22:06go back to childhood?
22:07I have long-time friends. I have new
22:12friends. It’s something I like to
22:14cultivate, friendship. I like
22:16discovering them, I like maintaining
22:18them. I can't say I like getting rid of
22:22them, but it’s true that I don’t
22:24maintain conflictual or toxic
22:26relationships, or else I like to
22:28resolve them. I have respect.
22:31Friendship has such a huge place in my
22:34life that I respect it enough to need
22:37to confront my friends as much as I
22:40need them to be able to confront me too
22:43, and they do. I like uh when
22:46friendships grow as well. That’s,
22:51it’s precious to me to look back at
22:54the past, and to say to myself: "Oh my
22:57god, you see, with this person, I was
23:01here, then there, then there, and we
23:04evolved, we changed positively." Uh and
23:10, and I’ve had great eras of
23:13friendship in my life. Sometimes, I've
23:17been drawn more to one person, and at
23:20other times, other eras, other moments,
23:24more toward another. But and then there
23:29are some in there, yes, that I've had
23:31since since childhood. There, it would
23:36be more the friendship with my cousins,
23:39you know, that I’ve maintained
23:41forever. Actually, as if they were my
23:44my sisters, my brothers, my cousins. Uh
23:47and there is always something friendly
23:49about being cousins. It's uh
23:52Are you one of the oldest, or the
23:54youngest? Because for me, for example,
23:57with my cousins, I'm always the
23:58youngest, it seems.
23:59Well, it depends on the family. OK,
24:01that's it, because for me
24:02in my father's family, I am the
24:03youngest. In my mother's family, I am
24:05among the oldest. Here, I am one of the
24:07two. We are the two oldest. Yeah.
24:09Stéphanie,
24:09I feel like I was, you know, sort of
24:11coddled when when I was the youngest,
24:14you know.
24:14But me, I sort of had both.
24:17But it's always been very friendly
24:19relationships, you know, of confiding
24:20in each other who have and what's also
24:25good with family is that there is still
24:27an understanding of your of your
24:28lifestyle. Uh, the fact that sometimes
24:32you get invested in something and then
24:34you disappear, uh, and where, uh, where
24:37in love or in friendship, people might
24:39not understand and might blame you for
24:41absences or...well, you can always go
24:43back home, you know, to the house, to
24:45your family's houses, I mean. Yeah,
24:48anyway, I don't have that type of
24:50relationship in friendships either, of
24:51blame or of people with expectations
24:54well there are expectations, you know,
24:55that I want to fulfill, but there isn't
24:57the expectation that there aren't
24:59unrealistic expectations in my
25:00friendships, there are a lot of people
25:02who are in the industry anyway. So
25:04there is an understanding of the fact
25:06that damn, it's been 2 months since we
25:07saw each other but we aren't not
25:08friends, you know. And we never see
25:11each other, we, you know, to be in the
25:13I have been before, plus I know that, I
25:15was reproached for it and I tried to
25:18work on it and
25:19you were demanding of others. Well no,
25:21but you know, sometimes I get lonely,
25:23and and you know, I've told friends: "
25:26We never see each other, you're...
25:28you're always at..." But you know, we
25:30give what we can, and when we are
25:32together, well it's good to spend that
25:34time, uh, complaining about what we
25:36didn't have or imagining what we could
25:39get next time we meet, you know. But
25:42hey, we'll see each other again soon.
25:43But right now, we are, we're seeing
25:45each other, damn it, we're together,
25:47we're having lunch, so let's enjoy it.
25:50And, and, but, but to conclude then on
25:53the, the role friendship plays, uh, a
26:01role, if not the whole role, actually.
26:06I eat with my friends, I I sleep with
26:11my friends, I I I I go on trips with my
26:14friends, I work out with my friends, I
26:16make films with my friends. I make
26:20films and I make friends, you know,
26:22everything in my life is done in in in
26:25there’s nothing, in any case,
26:27that’s done with distance or coldness
26:29, or there’s always, ultimately, a
26:32friendly dynamic that sets in. Uh I
26:35don't have to be friends with someone
26:37to work with them or to what I mean is
26:39that without saying I'm not selective,
26:42I think I make friends easily. I have
26:44warmth and friendship to give. And so
26:49if I meet someone who has that same
26:52propensity to to to give and to to I I
26:55we're likely to to fall into friendship
26:59, you know.
27:01Do you mix your friends together?
27:03Absolutely. Absolutely. And sometimes,
27:06I find it's also interesting to have
27:09friendships in different circles uh to
27:14change a bit of you know, there’s a
27:17bit of a chameleon-like quality uh
27:21in our camaraderie which means that,
27:22well, since we admire each other a lot,
27:24there's a lot of admiration in
27:26friendship, in love too, you know, you
27:27have to admire the other to to
27:29Yeah.
27:31It's essential, you know. To admire
27:32doesn't mean uh uh you have to be
27:34famous and and make good money, and you
27:36, it's not that kind of admiration.
27:38It's the admiration of small or big or
27:41medium things and it's it's uh we think
27:44we only admire a star or a...No, no. I
27:47admire...uh, I admire your, on a daily
27:50basis, your, uh, your rigor in your
27:53routine; you have your coffee, you set
27:55your cup just so, you choose beautiful
27:58things, you have a real regard for
28:01beauty. You speak well, you’re there
28:03when, uh, you’re punc—you’re
28:05punctual, it’s—it’s more
28:07straightforward. I admire—I admire
28:10the punctuality of certain people, me,
28:11who is not surprised. Uh, admiration is
28:15important. And so I think because we
28:18admire each other so much, well, we
28:20mirror each other a lot. We want to
28:22possess the beautiful things the other
28:24has, or we even want to laugh like them
28:26, or we want to imitate someone's
28:28rhythm of speech. And for me, a sign—
28:30well, you know, there’s something
28:33that can become unhealthy in that. You
28:35know, when you’re at an extreme. Uh,
28:37but for me, those borrowings are a good
28:40sign, you know. We borrow from those we
28:42love. Borrowing traits, or money too,
28:46but you understand what I mean. So
28:50it’s interesting sometimes to create
28:52amalgams and to have a blending between
28:55these groups. And generally, I notice
28:59that the friends I want in my life all
29:01get along well with each other, even if
29:04they come from different backgrounds.
29:07Yeah, even if they are different.
29:09Yeah.
29:09And at the same time,
29:10those differences are compatible.
29:11Yeah. But that also shows your open
29:14side. It completes all our facets, too.
29:18Openness, for sure, but I don't think
29:20I’d surround myself with people who
29:22aren’t open or who aren't...
29:25You know, it’s important to me to
29:27talk, to be interested in others;
29:28curiosity is asking questions, debating
29:30, talking.
29:33Sometimes it creates eclectic
29:34environments when you mix things up.
29:35That’s interesting. Well, but I think
29:38it’s essential, actually, because if
29:40we just have our nose and head stuck in
29:41one single thing, well,
29:45we become uniform; it becomes smooth,
29:47it becomes flat, it becomes boring.
29:51The question, there’s one that tempts
29:52me, for sure, but I’m going to go
29:53elsewhere because
29:54you can go with the flaw if you want.
29:56Was it that, or did you want authority?
29:58No, authority, but for sure, for sure
30:00you react to authority.
30:02We can—we can, go ahead, go ahead
30:03with whatever you want. Wait, wait,
30:06wait. Uh, wait, because I’m going to
30:11go—no, I’ll take "what importance
30:13do you give to the gaze of others."
30:16Because that can evolve over time, too.
30:19Yeah, it has to evolve. Uh, it has to
30:23evolve. It has evolved. Uh, the big
30:30question in all this is, who are these
30:31others? Is it how my friends see me? Is
30:38it how my family sees me? Is it how the
30:42public sees me? Is it how critics,
30:45journalists, industry people see me?
30:48Whose gaze is it? And is that gaze
30:52well-intentioned to begin with? And
30:58that is the question I realize I need
31:01to ask myself at all times before
31:04assigning that importance, giving that
31:07importance.
31:09You have
31:10you have to you have to graduate
31:14not graduate, that's not the right word
31:16, like a dimmer, you have to
31:18that I dose that I distribute
31:24because well,
31:32if your intensity were always the same,
31:34otherwise.
31:35Yeah, but also because I need to
31:36protect myself in all that, and I
31:42didn't, I poorly, I poorly protected
31:45myself from that in the past. I gave a
31:51lot of time in my life, a lot of energy
31:55, a lot of hate, and therefore love,
32:01because these are feelings, I find,
32:04that have a mutuality, that have a very
32:07similar intensity.
32:10Mm-hmm.
32:11Uh, even though, even though they're
32:14very different,
32:15we're not dealing with indifference. No
32:17,
32:17we're dealing with something that
32:18triggers a reaction. In both cases, you
32:20react.
32:20Yeah. And uh I let, I let myself be
32:25hurt, be, and it also comes from the
32:28fact that, well, what others think
32:33matters. Yes, to me, because the others
32:36are my interlocutors. I don't, I don't
32:40do this all alone, you know. Making
32:42films, first of all, I...but then
32:44obviously, I do it in a community when
32:46we create them, but I mean, I address
32:48them to someone. I am, I am addressing
32:51these others. Uh, so it's certain that
32:56if everyone hates me and everyone says,
32:59"He's a jerk and he talks like an
33:01and he thinks he's something
33:04else," well I go: "Oh yeah, well, okay,
33:07it looks like there's a common
33:09denominator or that I have things to
33:12change or things to..." And after that,
33:15well, that's part of the game, I'd say.
33:18It's not really the game of getting
33:19criticized because we make films. It's
33:22more about understanding what we've
33:24done and growing, evolving. There is an
33:28academic aspect, even, in the idea that
33:31it's not just an emotional or artistic
33:33side, there's an academic aspect to
33:35creation and to cinema.
33:37But were you already reactive to the
33:39gaze of others when you were young? I
33:44don't really remember. I don't think so
33:47. I don't think so. I think that when I
33:51started to open up and, to present
33:53myself, and to expose myself, even
33:55unconsciously at first, but to expose
33:57myself, to expose my intimacy, but then
34:00even, you know, my films, uh, uh, uh,
34:05contain autobiographical elements but
34:08are largely fictional and for the most
34:12part, you know. So, it's just that
34:16there is intimacy from me, from others,
34:18from my family, from people I've
34:21observed my whole life that I come to
34:23insert into those plots, because I want
34:26people to be able to identify with them
34:29and for a human connection to be
34:31created with the public.
34:35Uh, uh. I lost my train of thought. You
34:40asked me if, when I was young, I...Yeah
34:41, that's it. I don't remember if other
34:43people's opinions mattered, but from
34:45the moment I started to tell my own
34:46story,
34:49well, you know, these films are
34:52essentially what I think, what I am,
34:55what I have to say, I need the gaze of
34:58others. I couldn't be without it at all
35:02. I couldn't completely detach myself
35:05from it and just not care. Conversely,
35:09I've never understood directors who
35:11tell me, "Oh, I don't read reviews, I
35:13don't read that, I don't need that.""
35:16I've never read a review of my..." I'm
35:18like: "Oh yeah, you can't know what...
35:22what...even just a little bit about
35:24what people think." That...there was,
35:27there was, there was in that sentence a
35:28contempt for criticism that, for me,
35:30was displeasing, you know. Because,
35:33well, when it's constructive, criticism
35:35, when it's not personal or doesn't
35:38have a malicious bias, well then it's
35:40interesting. For me, at one point, well
35:43, for "Heartbeats," there was a critic
35:45who wrote: "It's because, you know, we
35:47go from one...from one music video to
35:49another." So, you know, there isn't
35:51much substance between the two. And at
35:53some point, it just becomes a series of
35:55music videos. It's like, yeah. And yes,
35:59it's a musical film, I don't deny that.
36:03But I found it interesting, you know,
36:05to understand that everything is a
36:06matter of balance, and that at some
36:08point, if there's too much of a music
36:10video sequence, you can't get
36:11emotionally invested, you know. You
36:13might say "Ah, it's beautiful, oh the
36:15slow motion, oh the dress, oh the song,
36:16all that.""But a film is a story we are
36:19telling." It's not just images.
36:20Malicious.
36:21Well, it wasn't malicious, it was just
36:22factual.
36:23That visual aspect, that, that was
36:24factual. So that's interesting. You
36:26take that, and you learn from it.
36:28Well, I learned from that at some point
36:30too. Oh, it's slow motion, it's...I was
36:33like, yeah, there is a lot of slow
36:35motion. We could use less. We'll use
36:38less in the next one. Uh, for me, I, I
36:41...actually, my big break with the
36:46world of criticism happened in my life
36:49because I used to like criticism: I
36:52liked reading it, I liked learning, I
36:54liked understanding what I had done,
36:57who I was, who I am, who...who...and
37:00I've always had negative ones. It
37:04wasn't, oh, a love story. And at some
37:06point
37:07no, that's it
37:08people didn't just decide I started
37:09making shitty movies and then people
37:11said it's, it's more complex than
37:13that.
37:14Uh, I felt that at some point it
37:16started to become something very
37:18personal, and, and from that point on,
37:21I stopped reading to protect myself,
37:23you know. So we come back to that
37:27protection we owe ourselves, because at
37:29some point, well, I understood that,
37:31yeah, it was no longer useful to me.
37:35I'm not saying there weren't any that
37:37were still relevant, but I could no
37:39longer, I couldn't take the risk of, of
37:40, of, of venturing into a read that
37:47would end up hurting me, doing me harm,
37:50feeding obsessive insecurities that
37:53don't make me grow, but just turn me
37:55even more inward and create doubts.
38:00with which
38:01I can't do anything. And what you're
38:03saying, it's not with doubts
38:04but but what you're saying applies to
38:06more but Yes. But but what you're
38:09saying applies to to a lot of people,
38:11you know, who will will get some some
38:13criticism at different moments in their
38:15lives on different things and. And it's
38:17about weighing the importance, because
38:20if you start doubting, changing for one
38:22person who criticized you, and you move
38:24away from yourself, you know, what's
38:27the point?
38:27You know, because what others think is
38:30when a critique is based on a value
38:33judgment or a projection of someone's
38:35idea of who they think you are onto you
38:38. What do we do with that? You know,
38:42for me, too much slow motion. Yes. Too
38:45this, too long. Too superficial, too
38:50this. That acting is too big. Perfect.
38:55But when we get into, "Ah, he must have
38:58made this film thinking..." thinking
39:00you're not in my head. And and don't
39:04try to be and uh uh you're not there.
39:10OK. I mean, he he's making a film about
39:16what it's like to be a genius and and
39:19to die and to feel alone.
39:24But but you know, your starting point
39:25is is just, from whose perspective?
39:28Yeah. To choose, yes the. The
39:30perspective, the, whether it's in a...
39:33that's it, in a film, if it concerns
39:35this film, if it's something I can
39:37change. We also come back to control:
39:39is this something I can control, or is
39:41it something I can't control? If you
39:44dislike me and you find this, and you
39:47find that, and you [] the person I am,
39:49and I get on your nerves, and I can't
39:52change that through a film or through a
39:54cosmetic or artistic or narrative
39:56choice, then it's useless to me.
40:01So, you're in a period now where it's
40:03like you're learning how to gauge your
40:06reactions to what others think. Is it
40:09...Did we start? I started a a while
40:11ago, it's been a while since I started
40:12telling myself, "Okay, I don't want to
40:14read reviews for this film," and they
40:15say, "But there are good ones." I was
40:18like, "Yeah, I I I I don't want to read
40:21them, I don't want to, no, I want to
40:23focus on my work." After here, we're
40:29giving capital importance to criticism
40:30anyway, even though there's also the
40:32criticism that our friends give us,
40:33that our...
40:34Well, yes, for me, that's what what
40:36others think is too. It's not just the
40:38gaze in the public sphere.
40:40No. And the look on Reddit from a girl
40:41who says, "Anyway, I ran into him on
40:43the street and he was really rude."
40:45Okay, but you see, that day my
40:47great-aunt had just died, so I owe you
40:50nothing, sweetie. And it's, it's a drag
40:53, but to go and capitalize on that,
40:55like, "Oh, I was an extra on a set and
40:58I saw that girl and she was really
41:00stuck up," and okay, that, that bunch
41:03of losers, for God's sake, who spend
41:05their time trash-talking people by, by,
41:08by, by, by putting in their two cents
41:10on what those people think, and what
41:13those people feel. That culture, it
41:16disgusts me, uh, I want nothing to do
41:20with it. And, and, and so if we're
41:24talking about, if those others, if the
41:25others are those people, there's no
41:27point in talking about it. For me, it's
41:30, it's toxic, it's pointless.
41:33And there's nothing good, nothing
41:34effective, nothing constructive,
41:36nothing productive that can come from
41:38that, giving value just to that, to get
41:41through the gaze of others.
41:43You know there are people who will hold
41:44themselves back their whole lives
41:47because of what others might think, you
41:48move forward after that, you protect
41:50yourself, but I still think about it.
41:53But when
41:53we can't, it's not a door that's open
41:55or closed.
41:57I tell you that, it's one thing to say
41:58it, another to put it into practice.
41:59But when you do, let's say when you're
42:02writing, when you're directing, do you
42:04think about that? Do you say, "This is
42:06going to get me slammed because I'm
42:08putting..."
42:08No.
42:09That, you're free in that moment.
42:10But, but I think about the audience.
42:12Yes. You think
42:13Will it, will it interest the audience?
42:15But that
42:15And I think about myself. So, I am part
42:17of the audience. But that's
42:19I watch, I, I, I watch mainstream
42:22movies too, and series, and...I lead a
42:24normal life, you know. I have a life,
42:29especially in terms of what I watch, I
42:30mean, it's pretty normal. But I have
42:35opinions, and there are things I find,
42:36well, things I find fascinating, and
42:37sometimes it's...but do you watch TV,
42:39then? Do you watch series? Do you? Yeah
42:43, yeah, I watch series, I watch TV, I
42:46watch American, Quebecois, Swedish
42:49series. I watch films, I listen to
42:53people, I listen, I'm a consumer of
42:56content. But I think about the audience
43:05when I create, because I think, well,
43:08is the story I'm telling clear? Will
43:12they be emotionally hooked on this or
43:15that? Do I have what I need to—do I
43:18have the necessary keys to
43:19understanding? Does the music come in
43:21at the right moment? Does that work?
43:24I'm always thinking about the
43:25audience's perspective, and I'm always
43:27thinking about my own perspective on
43:29myself when I create, and the
43:30perspective of the people I create with
43:31. I constantly ask the technicians, the
43:35craftspeople, the artists with whom we
43:37are telling a story. Does this work for
43:40you? Do I, do I have what I need? Is
43:42this shot necessary? I'm always asking
43:45questions. I'm always turning to my
43:46script supervisor and saying, do we
43:48have what we need, should we redo it,
43:50is the acting right? Then she looks at
43:51me over her glasses like this and she
43:53goes or, you know, André Turpin who is
43:57the director of photography who is
44:01looking at his light meter, he looks at
44:03me and I ask what I need, because we
44:07understand. We are always questioning
44:11ourselves. We I don't want to doubt
44:18myself because it's useless, but I can
44:23doubt my choices—and by doubt, I mean
44:25question them—because it's just
44:27healthy for me, it's just creative
44:28hygiene. That's it.
44:30Yes. And you're well surrounded, too,
44:31by
44:31But for me, if I write something, I
44:32think, no, it's perfect. Don't touch
44:33anything. It's perfect, don't change a
44:36comma. That's it. That's the text.
44:38That's it, so don't touch my text. And
44:40then, well, in the edit, don't touch
44:43that shot. And well, after that, it's
44:45easy. I'm the one who writes, directs,
44:47and edits. So, even in my own head, I
44:49could develop an affection or a certain
44:51pride around "this shot is so beautiful
44:53." But it's useless in the scene, so we
44:56don't include it. Yes, but it's a
44:58beautiful shot. It's a log. My god,
44:59what's happening right now is
45:00completely bipolar. But, uh, this
45:02dialogue with myself, you know, as an
45:05artist, it's important, but it's also
45:07easy, because for me, all that matters
45:10is the story, the narrative. We don't
45:13care about your lines; if you want to
45:15write a script where we keep every line
45:18and every stage direction and we do
45:20everything and change nothing, write a
45:22book. A script is in motion. A script
45:28can only become a film. Yeah. And
45:31and to become a film,
45:33you have to be able to make artistic
45:35choices together.
45:36But we don't know what you're taking
45:37out.
45:39When I watch your film, I don't know
45:40what you removed.
45:42But I removed something that I thought,
45:45or still think, ideally, hindered your
45:47understanding or wasn't necessary for
45:49your understanding, or made you say, "
45:51Okay, we get it now," and we don't have
45:53to dwell on it, and, oh, you see that
45:55line? Ah, that was too much. I feel
45:57like I would have understood it with
45:58just a look. And, in fact, you'll never
46:01know. So it can't cause any harm. But,
46:05but, but that, that perspective towards
46:07myself, that perspective from the
46:09audience, of what they might eventually
46:11think. It also brings us back to
46:13respecting the audience's intelligence.
46:15That perspective matters to me. And I
46:16need it to move forward. I need it to,
46:19uh, evolve myself. And the perspective,
46:27or rather let's say of those others we
46:33talked about earlier, whether it's on
46:36social media or in more venomous or
46:43biased critiques, well, that
46:45perspective, you know, is it really a
46:47perspective, or is it more like, you
46:49know, you feel it's skewed and arms are
46:51crossed? We're going nowhere with that,
46:54exactly.
46:55We're going nowhere with that.
46:56So you have to stop wasting energy on
46:58that.
47:00But there's saying it and there's doing
47:04it, like I was telling you.
47:05And it's in my nature.
47:07Yeah. And it depends on what moment of
47:08your life you're in. You know, there
47:09are all sorts of things. One morning
47:11everything's fine, you read that, you
47:12let it go. Yes, but then after that, we
47:14aren't perfect and we, we
47:17it comes out there and then you're like
47:18, "Ah, you just attacked me for
47:20something I said, you
47:22that's not what I meant." But it was
47:24clear. Why do you feel like someone
47:26came along and pushed your buttons
47:31and, you know, I took the trouble to
47:32choose a specific word, and they put in
47:34a different word instead, you know.
47:37It's it's normal to react to that too.
47:40After that, to what extent can it get
47:41to you in the long run, and to what
47:42extent can it spark a reaction, a
47:44concrete reaction where you're going to
47:45respond or you're going to...That's the
47:47little bit of perspective. But it's
47:50also normal to react and to just keep
47:51it to yourself instead of writing back.
47:53Oh no no no no.
47:55Are you ready for the yellow level?
47:58So you draw them, you give me four.
48:01That's part of the past.
48:02OK.
48:03You're going to give me—you're going
48:05to shuffle. I'll take four. You'll
48:06answer a question, and then I'll ask
48:08you a question. You pick one.
48:17Here.
48:18Oh no no, it's you, it's your game. OK,
48:20thank you.
48:21This right here?
48:23Yeah,
48:23I'll put one on top of the other and
48:24one next to the other.
48:26Whatever you like. It's your game. You
48:28go with that, then it's going to be
48:29anal-retentive, and it's going to be
48:30set aside like this here.
48:33OK. That part's important. Oh, I really
48:35don't like what just happened here. Did
48:37you see? It keeps sliding. There's an
48:39angle in the table. My carpenter.
48:42So, does that bother you?
48:43We'll do it like this and put the apple
48:44on top.
48:47There's a lot going on in your head
48:48right now.
48:48Yeah. Excuse me. Pardon. The curiosity
48:50just kicked in and
48:51I love that. OK. So things are going
48:54well.
48:54It's going. Yeah. You?
48:58So if it's crooked. Well, that's
49:00perfect. So apply the rules, place the
49:01cards, do whatever you want. I just
49:03want you to be comfortable. What type
49:04of lover are you? What is the biggest
49:07challenge you have had to overcome?
49:09Were you ever a child? I've been
49:11wanting to ask you that question for a
49:13long time. What did you not receive
49:14from your parents that you missed out
49:16on? Perfect.
49:23You pick one.
49:28Is there one that speaks to you? They
49:31all speak to you. But
49:38where do you want to go? I don't know.
50:08I'll take "what type of lover are you."
50:14Uh, I, I It's well phrased because I
50:21think I'm a lover, but I don't think
50:23I've ever been a partner or an active
50:26member of a couple dynamic. I've always
50:31had very short relationships, really
50:32very short. And What I’ve known of
50:41love is dynamics in which, well, I
50:46would settle into a relationship and
50:50then eventually, well, there was
50:56distance, a detachment on my part. And
51:04then it would end. And what else I've
51:09known is love at first sight, well,
51:16dazzling, devastating, or where I fall
51:21for someone, in a way that’s
51:30obsessive and quite destructive for me,
51:34without it being mutual. [Sigh] That
51:41tendency, I've had it pointed out to me
51:44well. In recent years, I’d say in the
51:48last 10 years of my life, people have
51:49often taken advantage of it, to my
51:53detriment. I think of people, you know,
51:57who wanted to get things or who
51:59understood I had a soft spot for them
52:01and who perhaps saw opportunities or
52:08who wanted to [Sigh]
52:14be in our light, you know, there are
52:15people who sometimes want to be in the
52:16light. And I’ve reconciled with that
52:20idea because I understand what
52:22opportunism is, you know. [Sigh] I
52:29understand, or in any case, I
52:31understand the ambition to want to
52:34succeed, to be afraid of nothing. It's
52:38just what I don’t understand. And all
52:42my life, I’ve fought against that and
52:46to never do that. Uh and if I ever did
52:57it and it’s just, I blame myself, I
53:04blame myself for not remembering it.
53:07That’s even worse. And I blame myself
53:09for having thought that way, but
53:13against the idea of—I said I’ve
53:16fought all my life against the idea of
53:19using someone you give nothing to just
53:22to obtain something. That, I could
53:28never do. I couldn’t sell someone the
53:31idea that I love them, that I could
53:33love them, to get something in return,
53:38to taste their success, to be in their
53:41light, to get their favors, to be seen
53:44with them. I wouldn’t be capable of
53:46doing that. My entire body would rebel
53:49against that situation. And
53:53it’s done to you. Unfortunately, it
53:57is still something quite frequent as a
54:03behavior. I observe it around me. I
54:08have friends who are victims of it.
54:13What’s also complicated with these
54:14situations is that there’s always
54:16real affection at the base. So it’s
54:20not entirely fake or artificial. I’m
54:22not an imbecile either, you know.
54:24There’s always a part of truth you
54:27can base things on, which you can
54:29mention to others to confirm that, yes,
54:32there is romantic potential. Yes, but
54:35fundamentally, you realize that from
54:39the start, there was never any
54:42intention from the person for it to go
54:45further, the intention to give you that
54:52that in fact, uh it was opportunism
54:59through romantic feelings. And how do
55:05you recover from that? It's a betrayal.
55:08Do you see it that way?
55:10We recover each time, but it wears you
55:12out.
55:16That’s your passionate side coming
55:18out at that moment.
55:19Yes. Yeah.
55:23And we nurture it in any case. We let
55:26that passion live. But it's exhausting
55:28because there is an enormous amount of
55:32loneliness in that passion. And
55:35sometimes, you know, usually the other
55:37person manages to give us just enough
55:39to keep it going, but
55:41the fire stays lit
55:42and without ever satisfying, or, and by
55:45satisfying, I don't just mean sex or or
55:48No,
55:49satisfying can mean kissing, holding,
55:51and hugging. Yes, it can be, uh,
55:53through love, but there’s something
55:57incomplete, and we live in a state of
56:00waiting.
56:01Do you have the feeling that you aren't
56:03enough at those times to have the other
56:05person completely with you?
56:09No, I don't think I tell myself that
56:11I’m not enough. I think I understand
56:13that it doesn't depend on me. I think
56:15it depends on the other person. And
56:17but in the waiting, when you’re
56:19waiting, do you feel like it's because
56:21you aren't offering enough? Do you have
56:24to give more?
56:25But I think that’s what ends up
56:26happening, you know. Uh you know, for
56:30me, when that kind of situation happens
56:32in my life when I meet someone like
56:36that, I often tell myself, "Oh, this is
56:38going to cost me." It’s going to cost
56:41me in restaurants, it’s going to cost
56:43me in "Hey, I'm in Paris for a film
56:48promo.""Come, come, come spend the
56:52weekend.""Oh, are you sure?""Yes, yes,
56:54come, because they’re paying for my
56:56hotel and I’ll buy you a ticket with
56:57my frequent flyer points," and it gets
56:59expensive. These passions are expensive
57:02, and they are costly in human terms
57:05too.
57:05And what do you experience in these
57:07passions that makes you repeat them?
57:12Just an intensity. I’m not living a
57:16mutuality; I’m living an intensity.
57:17And what does it do for you to live
57:19that intensity? I think it nourishes me
57:25because you’re comfortable in that
57:27zone of intensity.
57:28Well, yes, we’re comfortable. We’re
57:30comfortable when we aren't confronted.
57:31Disconnected a bit from reality.
57:32Exactly. We’re comfortable when we
57:34aren't confronted with reality. We’re
57:35in a great place.
57:37We’re good because everything is
57:38possible.
57:40You’re making a film.
57:41Yes. So so that
57:46there’s something like cinema in
57:47reality. When that reality is
57:50confronted by a disconnect or a
57:52disappointment, there’s a sense of
57:54vertigo. It’s like an eight-story
57:57drop in your gut, in your stomach. You
57:59fall right there. But it’s just as
58:03intense when you get the right text at
58:05the right time, and it continues to
58:10that vision of reality that you wish to
58:12maintain, that you wish to nurture.
58:15Then you take flight and everything is
58:18light and and you visualize, you dream,
58:26you see yourself. You know, there’s a
58:29meme I really like on Instagram. Which
58:31is so silly, but so accurate. And
58:35it’s just written, you know, like me
58:42I have to keep my distances. I have to
58:45keep my distance when I fall, when I
58:47have a crush and all that. It just says
58:51, me: after a date with someone I like.
58:57And there’s just a screenshot. It’s
58:59just an image where it says "suit for
59:01wedding" in a Google search. I’m like
59:04, Yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yes, yes, the
59:07wedding, wedding in Tuscany with a
59:09beautiful arch.
59:13Uh, vineyards, uh, you know, filled
59:15with hibiscus or buttercups or...Yes,
59:18yes, the bow tie, the Armani suit, with
59:21a double neckline, and yes, we
59:23visualize these things in a crazy way.
59:26When we have a crush, and we beat
59:28ourselves up over it, but I think
59:29everyone does it. I’m not saying
59:32I’ve ever typed...I’m not saying
59:34I’ve ever typed "suit for wedding,"
59:36but it’s just a symbol. It’s just
59:38an analogy that makes me laugh because
59:40it captures our excess well. Uh, our
59:43excess when we fall—it says it right
59:47there—when we fall
59:49in love.
59:50In love.
59:52And so, you’ve fallen in love often.
59:56And how does the descent go? Honestly,
1:00:01faster and faster, better and better,
1:00:06more and more, it’s getting easier
1:00:08and easier. It’s, uh
1:00:11But is it a pattern you always repeat?
1:00:13It’s a pattern that people repeat
1:00:15with me, too.
1:00:16But you’re receptive at the same time
1:00:19.
1:00:19Yes, but that’s what’s needed, you
1:00:20know. I mean, for me,
1:00:24you like that feeling
1:00:26of being patient. It’s just that the
1:00:28difference between me
1:00:31and someone who falls into a pattern
1:00:33like this, it's that this pattern, it's
1:00:35presented to me
1:00:38because you have to offer because you
1:00:40have a lot to offer.
1:00:41For someone as you say who is an
1:00:43opportunist, who wants the spotlight,
1:00:44you
1:00:46even if I know it, from the moment I
1:00:48close myself off completely like an
1:00:50oyster and I don't want to let that in
1:00:53anymore. But I become suspicious. If I
1:00:58become suspicious, well I become lonely
1:01:04because it's everywhere around me. And
1:01:10it's one thing to spot it but to spot
1:01:12it, you have to try it and see and
1:01:14that's something that keeps happening
1:01:17before I even choose it myself. It's
1:01:20there in my life. And now, well, the
1:01:22only thing I can do, because I can't
1:01:24cut myself off entirely from the world
1:01:26and tell myself "maybe this person
1:01:28wants something from me, maybe they
1:01:30want...", I can't, I can't be on my
1:01:31guard like that all the time, because
1:01:33then I'm not living.
1:01:36because because I I would be turning my
1:01:40back on my life, on life.
1:01:43Yes. And hope that one day it works out
1:01:45too. But is it
1:01:47But I never think that I don't think it
1:01:49would work out that way if it did work
1:01:51out.
1:01:52It wouldn't start with that kind of
1:01:53situation. I
1:01:55But since you are someone passionate,
1:01:57is it necessary to always feel passion
1:01:59or do you disconnect?
1:02:02No. And when I saw what type of lover
1:02:04are you, I wanted to answer you. I told
1:02:07you I don't know, I think. But I no
1:02:11no type of lover. I'm not looking for
1:02:14that in my life. I don't wake up in the
1:02:16morning saying "Oh, it would be fun to
1:02:18You still think about your wedding?" No
1:02:20no, it was a it was an image.
1:02:24OK. OK. I understand but but you still
1:02:26had a lot of details. But
1:02:27yes, it was to make you laugh.
1:02:28OK. But I was imagining it. I was
1:02:30imagining you, I saw you at the altar,
1:02:31I didn't see the other person. I didn't
1:02:32know who it was
1:02:33probably. Yes. Maybe but maybe not with
1:02:37a a twist but
1:02:42I'm not actively looking for that. Uh I
1:02:47don't put myself in situations where I
1:02:50can fall into a trap or I after that it
1:02:53happens uh it presents itself. What I
1:02:57can do differently now that I am
1:02:58equipped to do things differently now
1:03:00is to set my boundaries. Then, when I
1:03:03feel I’ve fallen into a trap,
1:03:05confront the other person and say: "
1:03:07listen, you made me feel this, this,
1:03:11and this." Because, the moment I’ve
1:03:15lost something, or won't have it, or
1:03:17see that I have indeed fallen into a
1:03:19trap, the only way to regain dignity
1:03:22and some form of control over the
1:03:24situation—because since I can't
1:03:26control the other person's feelings,
1:03:28the only thing I can control is my
1:03:30dignity, and getting answers to
1:03:32questions, and being able to share with
1:03:35people: "Why did you do that?" Do you
1:03:38realize that this pattern is harmful to
1:03:41me and that it’s malicious, and there
1:03:44is a great sense of relief in that
1:03:48in facing it.
1:03:49Yes. In facing it
1:03:51in facing Yes. Yes. Because
1:03:54and then it has always led to
1:03:55interesting conversations because
1:03:56generally people don't just, uh, leave
1:03:58and get defensive. They often say: "Oh,
1:04:01uh, OK, well sorry, uh, uh..." And then
1:04:04we talk, and they tell me: "But at the
1:04:06same time..." And then, well sometimes
1:04:08yes, people are full of and it was
1:04:11all fake, but sometimes they also say:
1:04:13"No, but actually I'm there, I'm with
1:04:18you there." You're like: "Oh, OK." So
1:04:19in the end, it can work and there’s a
1:04:21stretch of road to travel together.
1:04:23Eventually, things readjust and they
1:04:25become friendships that are even
1:04:27stronger. I don't dismiss either, I
1:04:33don't cast aside.
1:04:34these dynamics from my life entirely,
1:04:36I'm not punitive
1:04:38Yeah, but I need to face it to be able
1:04:40to move on, and I need to say: "that
1:04:41hurt me, and don't do that to someone
1:04:43else." It's the only power I can regain
1:04:46, you know. And it's not that I'm
1:04:49looking for power, it's that if I've
1:04:51been hurt, I don't need to get revenge,
1:04:53but I have the need...
1:04:55I have the need to say and to name,
1:04:56yeah
1:04:57naming naming, it's the same power as
1:05:01choosing, you know, choosing others '
1:05:02perspectives, choosing one's peers,
1:05:04well naming,
1:05:05saying and these are things that we we
1:05:11that we can that we have a tendency to
1:05:14acquire very late in life uh and that
1:05:18have entered mine recently, naming uh
1:05:24naming uh distinguishing and uh
1:05:31choosing these are incredibly simple
1:05:35verbs and of such complexity tentacular
1:05:42. No, but sometimes it's time, it's
1:05:44experience. Yes,
1:05:45it doesn't just happen like that.
1:05:46That's what life is for, right?
1:05:47You have to stop making films for 7
1:05:49years
1:05:50to learn how to name things.
1:05:52But because you have to live when you
1:05:53only work.
1:05:54Me, in addition, clearly all those
1:05:57films lived in me for so long. You know
1:06:00, it's no coincidence that JFO was a
1:06:04film about show business, about the
1:06:06relationship with the industry, about
1:06:08after 2009, after 8 years of making
1:06:15films and being part of an industry, of
1:06:18being part of the festival circuit.
1:06:21That’s what I had to say at that
1:06:22point. That was it, so afterwards I
1:06:24thought I need to experience things. I
1:06:27need to live my life, to travel, to
1:06:30meet people. I need to, to, to be led
1:06:33by the nose, to be thrown out there. I
1:06:38need, myself, to, to, to lose something
1:06:43, to, to, to have a film project
1:06:45collapse, to take care of, to my mental
1:06:52health, to, to take care of myself so
1:06:58that afterwards I can come back and
1:07:01tell.
1:07:02Not tell. Here is what I did in the
1:07:04last 7 years. But
1:07:06Ah, I had ideas born from those moments
1:07:08of solitude, from those moments of, you
1:07:10know, someone who is happy, and who
1:07:12lives, and who has success, and who
1:07:14travels. But I can't make a film,
1:07:17myself, about "I went to Cannes to the
1:07:19hotel and I had a coffee and I did an
1:07:21interview there," you know.
1:07:24Yeah, but you're an emotion sensor too.
1:07:26You're a human observer. That's it.
1:07:28Yeah. But there isn't much humanity in
1:07:31the industry.
1:07:33But that's why you got out of it, then.
1:07:34That's it.
1:07:35It feels good to go see what's
1:07:36elsewhere.
1:07:36Yeah. And you know, during my phases of
1:07:42doubt and during the media appearances
1:07:44there might have been, whether they
1:07:46were from me or something I didn't ask
1:07:48for, or you know, there's always a
1:07:50pendulum. There is I don't know why I
1:07:55winked like that, but in any case it's
1:07:56interesting. I am, I am observing you.
1:07:58Cut that out. There has been one
1:08:03constant, and it's the public. People,
1:08:08uh, men, women, uh, the young, the
1:08:11older ones, the, the, the people. I and
1:08:18I didn't venture into the depths of
1:08:20Reddit because you know what I think of
1:08:22it, but on social networks, on, uh,
1:08:24they defended me, uh, saying "Come on,
1:08:27he never said that, honestly.""It's the
1:08:32isolation, the loneliness, I felt it
1:08:34more from certain people in the
1:08:36industry and in certain circles,
1:08:38certain artistic bodies, certain
1:08:42an organ an organ. An organism, in any
1:08:46case.
1:08:46Yeah, that's for sure.
1:08:48An organ,
1:08:49a beautiful organism.
1:08:52In any case,
1:08:53I always felt the the the it soothed me
1:08:57a lot, you know. But especially since
1:09:00what you've done, you do it for the
1:09:01public and the public gives it back to
1:09:02you. So from there, that's the end of
1:09:04the story. Exactly. Exactly. That's it.
1:09:06The rest is, it's part of the story,
1:09:08but it's not what you'll remember. For
1:09:10me, it's this question that I want to
1:09:12ask you, and it's funny, one time I was
1:09:14giving a lecture and at the end of the
1:09:15lecture they asked me questions, but
1:09:17not about my lecture. They asked me,
1:09:19several times they asked me, which
1:09:20guest would you like to host, who would
1:09:22you like to interview? And then at that
1:09:25time, they always think I'm going to
1:09:27name, I don't know. I've already done
1:09:29it.
1:09:29I know.
1:09:30after you arrive after that
1:09:31you could you could
1:09:33Well yes I could, but you know, they're
1:09:35going to think, big shoes to fill.
1:09:37yeah they're going to think Baron, I
1:09:39don't know, and me
1:09:40not the same legs, we don't have the
1:09:41the
1:09:42but I always say Xavier computation
1:09:44Me, I, always Xavier Dolan, and that,
1:09:46that...Ah yes, you've never done Xavier
1:09:48? I say no, and then the other time,
1:09:49someone said to me:" OK, but what would
1:09:51be the question you would want to ask?
1:09:53"And I said:" The question I should ask
1:09:55is: has he ever been a child? "And then
1:09:57, everyone got emotional with the uh
1:09:59with the question, but it's what came
1:10:01to me. And I'm going to I'm just going
1:10:02to put it in context, for example. Why?
1:10:04Because I I had put it in context at
1:10:06that moment too. Me, when I watched for
1:10:09the first time uh" I Killed My Mother "
1:10:11and I understood the age you were when
1:10:14you you thought of that idea, when you
1:10:17wrote that film, I said:" But who is it
1:10:20? "that's when you became interesting
1:10:22to me. from that moment on, after the
1:10:24first viewing, I want to know this guy.
1:10:27Who is is he? No, but who is this old
1:10:29soul? Where does he arrive from? Where
1:10:30does he come from, from what planet? I
1:10:32get the feeling that you know, I'm not
1:10:33really one for past lives, but I
1:10:35thought to myself, it’s like this
1:10:36isn't his first life. You see, I
1:10:37thought that about you because I told
1:10:39myself, there is a strength in the
1:10:41content, in the understanding, in the
1:10:43angle, and in the perspective that I
1:10:45felt all through this film. I knew that
1:10:48came from you, but I wondered, how can
1:10:50someone be a child and write that so
1:10:53young? The question.
1:10:58Well, ask me again. So,
1:11:00have you ever been a child? Not for
1:11:03long. Uhh not for long, that's between
1:11:11the age of 1 and 4 or 5 then after uhh
1:11:22it was a mix of all sorts of eras, of
1:11:23all sorts of backgrounds, of
1:11:25environments. But I think we left the
1:11:31territory of childhood. By that, I mean
1:11:38childhood, what it is, or rather what
1:11:40it should be: a protected environment,
1:11:44a healthy environment, an environment
1:12:00with boundaries. of understanding. HH
1:12:09let's say that very young I started,
1:12:16you know, doing commercials for
1:12:17high-end brands and being part of the
1:12:19industry and all that. And that created
1:12:23a a break from reality, you know. For
1:12:28me, as a child, first of all, I was...I
1:12:32, I have ADHD, uh, but it wasn't
1:12:39diagnosed at the time, though it was
1:12:43noted in many ways on report cards and
1:12:47in behavioral reports as a problem, as
1:12:52a...but yeah, it wasn't explored or
1:12:58cared for or treated. Obviously,
1:13:03compared to today, what we knew back
1:13:04then was extremely lacking and the
1:13:09solutions were very few. Well, there
1:13:13was one, Ritalin, and kids were drugged
1:13:15up on it and then they'd come back to
1:13:17class and were like that, I understand.
1:13:21But, from the moment that, that, that
1:13:31the commercials started, and where I, I
1:13:34discovered that adult world, turbulent,
1:13:37fast, always in motion within that
1:13:40creative dynamic, uh, the cameras, the
1:13:43technicians, uh, all that obviously
1:13:46intertwined with the discovery, you
1:13:52know, of, of my sexuality, of my
1:13:54identity, uh, being tossed around like
1:14:03that between, between show business,
1:14:05you know, and then having to confront
1:14:08that with the reality of primary school
1:14:11, you know, I know I was a really
1:14:14difficult child, you know, for the
1:14:16others. others uh I fought a lot uh I
1:14:25took up way too much space. Uh, my
1:14:30mother had told me, you know, to never,
1:14:32ever, ever, ever, ever talk about my
1:14:34commercials, you know. It was sacred. I
1:14:38absolutely had to never talk about them
1:14:40, to be as humble as possible. But you
1:14:43know, telling a child that, it's like
1:14:46me saying don't drink, don't smoke, and
1:14:50don't do drugs.
1:14:54What do you want to do?
1:14:56The opposite.
1:14:57Exactly. So that's fine. It was
1:15:01obviously the idea of not bragging, so
1:15:04as not to be hated, so that...Because
1:15:06we hate that, people who brag, all that
1:15:08. But then I, for a long time, you know
1:15:11, I was convinced never to talk about
1:15:13it. People talked to me about it all
1:15:15the time: parents, you know, students
1:15:17would come talk to me about it,
1:15:19students would...But you know, all the
1:15:20weird dynamics it created, and...
1:15:23Did it separate you from others?
1:15:27In a way, I think, I think, I think I
1:15:28was also just straight-up strange. You
1:15:31know, I had a very strange relationship
1:15:33with authority. I, I would boss the
1:15:36younger ones around. I was verbally and
1:15:39physically violent, you know. And
1:15:45Were you violent at home as well? Uh,
1:15:51well yes, uh, yes. Well yes, I was a
1:15:53child, I was an angry child. I was a
1:15:55child, uh, I still am. Uh. Yes, yes, I
1:16:03was, I was totally—afterward, the
1:16:06instincts that manifested in society
1:16:08too were strange. A weird type of
1:16:13dynamic that I had observed either on
1:16:15film sets or I don't know where in my
1:16:21life, but that I would replicate like
1:16:23that, you know, as a child, and which,
1:16:25well, must have been really peculiar
1:16:28and was not
1:16:29typical, I would say, of a child.
1:16:31But where were you happy?
1:16:34Where was I happy?
1:16:35Yeah. Where did you feel good at that
1:16:37time, did you have a place where you
1:16:39were at peace? Where you weren't
1:16:42confronted by the outside world?
1:16:44On set? With people your own age?
1:16:50But even on sets, you know, I was, I
1:16:54was, I was very restless. And, you know
1:16:59, we live in an era today where we are
1:17:02in, in a listening mode, at least, we
1:17:04try to be. We advocate for it, we name,
1:17:08you know, as we said earlier, things;
1:17:11we address, uh, needs; we want to have
1:17:14non-violent communication. Hell, that
1:17:18word didn't even exist when I was a kid
1:17:20, you know. Uh, a child who was who was
1:17:23jumping around, you know," shut your
1:17:25mouth, sit down, and stop talking. "I'm
1:17:27going to give you a demerit in your
1:17:29agenda. Hey, I'm going to I'm going to
1:17:31fail you in this subject. I'm going to,
1:17:33you know, all that.
1:17:34Are there any consequences? You weren't
1:17:36in solution mode. All those behaviors,
1:17:40uh, were met with very punitive methods
1:17:42, you know, and that just exacerbated
1:17:44them, I think. But I remember one
1:17:49really striking episode that uh which
1:17:56was a turning point, actually, in I
1:18:04think it had been a long time since I
1:18:05was a child, but that's when I became a
1:18:10teenager or an adult, it was, but I was
1:18:11extremely young. It was, uh, at 10 or
1:18:1411 years old, I had filmed" The
1:18:16Suspended Fortress "for Les Productions
1:18:19La Fête. Uh, and I had missed some I
1:18:23had missed school, and, uh, so I was in
1:18:276th grade and there was a teacher,
1:18:32secular, it was a religious school but
1:18:35she was a secular teacher named Karen
1:18:42or Karine, Karen, I think, Ms. Karen.
1:18:47And she had set up a class council
1:18:51where we would compliment or criticize
1:18:58each other, you know, by writing on a
1:19:01piece of paper things we liked or
1:19:04things we liked less and wanted to
1:19:07discuss to eventually resolve. Well,
1:19:10and so on. The idea in itself is fine.
1:19:15So she would read all of that in front
1:19:22of the class on Friday before we left,
1:19:23I think it was the Friday before we
1:19:25left the boarding school. I was at
1:19:28boarding school, on a reflection, there
1:19:30. You would leave, like, with a
1:19:31reflection for the weekend. So you were
1:19:33a boarder starting at age 7, like
1:19:35from 7 to 13 or Yeah.
1:19:36OK. 14, uh, so, no, from 8 to 14, in
1:19:49any case, uh, so, she was taking, she
1:19:55was literally picking from a hat things
1:19:57that had been submitted by other
1:19:59students, written by other students,
1:20:01and she says:" So, well, it's
1:20:03Stéphanie. "So she named the person
1:20:07who had written the note, it wasn't
1:20:09anonymous, uh, and says:" Well, so
1:20:11Stéphanie today wants to tell us that
1:20:13... "That's it, her name is Stéphanie,
1:20:16the young student had her note, it was:
1:20:18" Well, today I would like to complain
1:20:21about Xavier's behavior, uh. "He never
1:20:24raises his hand to speak, he never asks
1:20:26for permission to go to the computer,
1:20:28he’s always showing off, he’s
1:20:29always talking about his ads, uh, uh,
1:20:31the special treatment, blah, blah, blah
1:20:33, everything. That...that was quite a
1:20:36dense critique. And I remember my heart
1:20:39was beating very, very fast. And uh, so
1:20:43the the the idea, the teacher's choice
1:20:47uh, following the reading of that note,
1:20:51was to hold a vote. Uh.
1:20:55By a show of hands.
1:20:56Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so, who agreed and who
1:21:00didn't. And uh, well I was sitting in
1:21:04the middle of the class, and so all the
1:21:07hands were raised in front of me, and
1:21:09then I turned around, and all the hands
1:21:11were raised behind me, including those
1:21:13of my best friends, you know, and at
1:21:20that moment, I remember thinking:" I'm
1:21:30all alone. "If I didn't realize all of
1:21:34that, I'm I'm all alone. I'm on my own.
1:21:43I I I can't depend on anyone to educate
1:21:47me, to show me how to live, how to act,
1:21:52how to be with others. I'm all alone.
1:21:59And I have to pull myself together and
1:22:01take charge because if I don't look out
1:22:03for myself, no one will do it for me.
1:22:12And it didn't happen right then and
1:22:15there because I was 11 years old. But
1:22:23that was the reflection. Is that when
1:22:28you started writing?
1:22:33No, I was already writing.
1:22:35Oh, yeah?
1:22:35Yeah. I was writing movie synopses, I
1:22:38was writing poems, I was writing shows
1:22:41about people with superpowers and a bit
1:22:44inspired by, no, I was already writing.
1:22:47So you had that living inside you in
1:22:50your in your solitude? You had a world,
1:22:54you had your own world. I never spent
1:22:55time telling myself," Oh my god, I’m
1:22:57so different from the others, I’m so
1:22:59different. "" You know, me
1:23:00it’s like they tell you that, for
1:23:02example,
1:23:02they tell me, but I didn't hear that. I
1:23:05wanted to play with the other kids.
1:23:07I wanted to play role-playing games. I
1:23:08wanted to pretend to be Neo in The
1:23:10Matrix. I wanted to pretend to be Harry
1:23:12Potter. I, I wanted to be good at
1:23:15sports and I wasn't. Uh, I wanted
1:23:19Félix to teach me how to play football
1:23:21in 5th grade and he did. I wanted uh uh
1:23:25to, you know, I wanted to play
1:23:27hide-and-seek in the lockers with
1:23:30Guérine. Uh, I wanted to be normal,
1:23:33you know.
1:23:35But from
1:23:36I wasn't happy. I wasn't happy being,
1:23:38being, being, you know, I
1:23:41If you hadn't done commercials, if you
1:23:42hadn't done that, would it have changed
1:23:43anything? Sure, but because it sort of
1:23:47created a bias, too. It set you apart
1:23:52from your
1:23:53a bias for others
1:23:54for others, not for you, but in the
1:23:55sense that
1:23:56something I can't control. They put you
1:23:59, they put you in a separate category.
1:24:01Hm
1:24:01hm.
1:24:01Because being on TV is also impressive.
1:24:04Sure, but you know, who is a child and
1:24:07not someone mature who is going to
1:24:09behave, uh, in the face of that, in a
1:24:11way that is necessarily, uh, in good
1:24:13taste? Or you know, uh, when we give
1:24:15someone power or or or make them feel
1:24:17like they intimidate us, well, they can
1:24:20very well use it the wrong way. You
1:24:22know, a a child
1:24:25and at
1:24:26it's mean
1:24:2711 years after that episode of the
1:24:28raised hand in your class, what has
1:24:30changed? I never forgot that moment,
1:24:35but after that, if you want, I went
1:24:40back to high school and uh private
1:24:45school in Longueuil, and after a month,
1:24:46well there was a gap, you know, in my
1:24:48grades. And once again, well I I was
1:24:51disturbing my classmates in class, and
1:24:52I could I was talking and it's and it's
1:24:54okay, anyway, you know. And so I was
1:24:57expelled, I went back to the boarding
1:24:59school uh in the Eastern Townships. Uh
1:25:03and then uh and then there, well I was
1:25:10confronted and I hadn't experienced
1:25:13that at all in elementary school. I was
1:25:18confronted with very, very great verbal
1:25:21and physical violence from the local
1:25:25youths toward one another. And it
1:25:30became the law of the jungle, it became
1:25:35you had to survive. So to survive, you
1:25:38had to say someone else was a loser.
1:25:43And every week, not day, but maybe
1:25:52every other day, every third day, I
1:25:54think of the the young people who were
1:25:59victims of these of these uh bullying
1:26:07there. And uh we were all there, we
1:26:10were all getting uh bullied. But I I I
1:26:18wouldn't say that I was bullied there,
1:26:22you know. I liked it, I sided, you know
1:26:30, with the side actually, I think that
1:26:35this sort of overachieving aspect in my
1:26:38head uh that came from from that
1:26:44hyperactivity made me do even more than
1:26:46the client asked for. And After that, I
1:26:53wanted to leave that school because I I
1:26:55absolutely wanted to come home because
1:26:57I didn't recognize myself anymore in
1:26:59that in that nastiness. Uh, and also,
1:27:05well, I knew I was gay, and I was
1:27:07suffering, and I I wanted to, I was
1:27:11externalizing that on on others, and
1:27:16afterward I came back home, and then,
1:27:21in ninth grade, well I went to live
1:27:24with my uncle and aunt, with my cousins
1:27:27, and from there on, I had a family
1:27:38residential dynamic that was normal.
1:27:48There were rules, there was homework to
1:27:51do, set times to do things. There were
1:27:54moments of laughter, of closeness,
1:27:56meals together, morning routines with
1:27:58the TV playing and the news, "Salut
1:28:00Bonjour," and breakfast, and toast, and
1:28:03the toaster, and there from there on
1:28:10there from there on, it was okay. I
1:28:14came out in ninth grade. I confronted
1:28:20guys who were homophobic and weren't
1:28:22nice to me. And by doing it using
1:28:24non-violent communication,
1:28:26uh, in the end I had many, most of them
1:28:29were like, "It's true, sorry." It was
1:28:32like a kind of bad ad against bullying,
1:28:34but one that ends well, just like that.
1:28:37But it was like that, just by talking,
1:28:38and saying, "I don't understand, we
1:28:40were friends, and then all of a sudden,
1:28:41you know..." And it was like, "Okay,
1:28:43yeah, okay." But in the end, the week
1:28:45after, you know, we were friends. And
1:28:47in tenth grade, well, I I I had friends
1:28:51. And it always remained an environment
1:28:57where there's dark humor, and where we
1:28:58make fun of each other a bit, but it
1:29:00wasn't in that violent way anymore. And
1:29:02in that, there was a sense, uh, let's
1:29:08say, of humanity that had been
1:29:09rediscovered. Uh I also think that, you
1:29:15know, we spend a lot of time hating
1:29:17ourselves, feeling bad and hiding. Uh,
1:29:23and when we hold things in, when we
1:29:26have a secret, well, we we project a
1:29:29lot of ugliness and animosity onto
1:29:31others. And when we get free of it,
1:29:36well, when we free ourselves from that,
1:29:42we suddenly have more room for our
1:29:45humanity, you know, and for others. And
1:29:52I would say that's what happened to me
1:29:55in ninth grade. And you see, between
1:29:59Madame Karen's class council and all
1:30:02the raised hands telling me that it
1:30:07wasn't working, you know, my thing that
1:30:09I wasn't that I wasn't okay, that I
1:30:12wasn't a good person, that I wasn't
1:30:14loved. Up until then, it was still a a
1:30:21downward spiral. And were you ever a
1:30:23child? Yes. Did those spirals and those
1:30:27boarding schools and those
1:30:28back-and-forths in the industry and
1:30:31having been abandoned like that by the
1:30:33community, you know? That’s how I
1:30:36experienced it, like a heartbreak, you
1:30:37know. No one wanted a kid who was in a
1:30:40boarding school, in Saint-Don, and who
1:30:42costs us a driver, and a bus, and who
1:30:44isn't available, and who's...it hurts
1:30:46to lose, to lose the work like that,
1:30:47you know, which was the only place
1:30:49where I felt I could shine, even if
1:30:53they blamed me for it, even if André
1:30:55Melançon told me every day of filming,
1:30:58every day of filming, after the
1:30:59commercials, I’d ask
1:31:01I would go see him to ask if my
1:31:02behavior was better, and he would
1:31:03always answer me the same thing.
1:31:08There's room for improvement. so
1:31:15but in that environment, when you had
1:31:17your scenes, you were fully yourself.
1:31:19You also had all the light, you had
1:31:22your place.
1:31:24Yeah, I had my place.
1:31:26Did you have
1:31:26I don't know if I wanted all the
1:31:28attention and all the light, clearly.
1:31:29But, but you had, but I think it was
1:31:31mostly that I had my place. Yeah,
1:31:32that’s well, that’s well put.
1:31:34Elsewhere, it was hard to define that
1:31:36place.
1:31:36It was, that's it,
1:31:37in motion. The impression you had—
1:31:40I’ve been listening to you for a
1:31:41while now, I feel there was a lot of
1:31:42movement in that period, and you’ve
1:31:44never spoken to me about your father
1:31:45and mother. Where are they? Uh, they
1:31:53are there, uh, they are at, at—you
1:32:00mean during, uh,
1:32:02in your life, what place do they take?
1:32:04Today or back then? Back then.
1:32:20Difficult, uh, it's often then that
1:32:28this card comes up.
1:32:30But you know,
1:32:31but you don't have to answer that. you
1:32:32gave me.
1:32:33No, I won't answer, but I will tell you
1:32:35: "hh, in the work I've been trying to
1:32:43do over the last few years, in the idea
1:32:45of naming and choosing one's battles,
1:32:48of choosing what we can, of identifying
1:32:50what we can control and what we can't
1:32:52control, uh, there is one thing that
1:32:54has been constant in my life and that I
1:32:56have always tried to cultivate and that
1:32:58has been really useful for learning to
1:33:00forgive myself.» me towards myself
1:33:04also my wrongs or asking others for
1:33:06forgiveness or to and or and which has
1:33:09always been at the heart of my writing.
1:33:16Then it's uh uh uh empathy uh without
1:33:27empathy, we we we are lost, you know.
1:33:31We are we are no one uh to write
1:33:35characters, to write stories. You can't
1:33:38just have empathy for one character and
1:33:41then not for another. You have to
1:33:43defend everyone. You have to be ready
1:33:45to go to the front lines for each of
1:33:48the characters. Uh then you have to
1:33:54learn to do it for people in life too
1:33:57because we don't live in a movie, we
1:34:00live life where each of our words has
1:34:03an impact, each of our actions has a
1:34:08posterity. And and I have many flaws, I
1:34:18have many shortcomings, but I have
1:34:25empathy, and that empathy there makes
1:34:33me decide not to be accountable or not,
1:34:45not to elaborate on what parenthood is,
1:34:48or on what my relationship is to, to my
1:34:53parents back then, because I think that
1:34:56in any case the Joker is eloquent, but
1:34:59because.
1:35:02I will do that when the time is chosen
1:35:06one day uh if I haven't already done it
1:35:12in public in a film and in certain
1:35:17others after if you will in a certain
1:35:19way. So I think that's sufficient.
1:35:24Very well answered. Is it your story?
1:35:27Uh
1:35:27is it your story? Does it belong to you
1:35:29? Well it's my story but it's my
1:35:31parents' story too you know.
1:35:33Yes yes yes.
1:35:34Lately there's someone who you know we
1:35:36were talking about trauma. For a long
1:35:40time, I thought, you know, that a
1:35:42trauma was something in emergency
1:35:44medicine, like in er, in any case in an
1:35:46emergency, in in, but you know, because
1:35:48once again, you know, it's very recent
1:35:51in our vocabulary to talk about it, to
1:35:53trivialize it, to democratize it. You
1:35:55know, a trauma, it's not just you fall
1:35:57from the 8th floor, a physical trauma
1:35:59there, you know. No, I was traumatized
1:36:01by such and such a thing. And, it's
1:36:03very serious when we say" trauma ". And
1:36:05but, there is" traumatism ", and there
1:36:08is" trauma ", and...and there are many
1:36:14things, you know, that...that because I
1:36:18could name them, and because I could
1:36:19understand them, because I thought I
1:36:21had empathy, and I would say:" No, but
1:36:22at the same time there’s this, and
1:36:24there’s that, and it was hard, and
1:36:25such and such a person went through
1:36:26such and such a difficulty... "And but,
1:36:31just because we understand a trauma we
1:36:35experienced by, by justifying it with
1:36:37another person's traumas or another
1:36:39person's own difficulties, doesn't mean
1:36:41we solve it for ourselves. You know,
1:36:44there's naming and there's healing.
1:36:49They are two different things. To heal,
1:36:51you have to name it step by step. Yes.
1:36:54And healing from trauma, sometimes uh
1:36:56we heal, but it remains and when we
1:36:58scratch it comes back too. And there
1:37:02are traumas that
1:37:05that come in in adult life to tickle
1:37:11those from childhood. So
1:37:13Yeah, but childhood is our it's still
1:37:16the pillar of who we are. It's an
1:37:19important pillar of who we will always
1:37:22be.
1:37:24So I don't know if I was ever a child,
1:37:32but I know that if I hadn't had the
1:37:34childhood and adolescence I had, I
1:37:40would probably not have made films or
1:37:46not made those films.
1:37:47Hm hm hm. in that way. Hm
1:37:49hm.
1:37:51I might not have, even if some of these
1:37:53traits are inherent or I had them at
1:37:55birth, I might not have had that
1:37:57audacity. I might not have. That's why
1:38:01I've never held any regret or
1:38:04bitterness toward the childhood I had.
1:38:09But I think I spent a lot of time
1:38:17exploiting that childhood, and the
1:38:23traumas that marked it, just like the
1:38:26events or the the...but the divorces,
1:38:31the moving, the the the boarding
1:38:36schools, the this, the that, the
1:38:37filming, the heartbreaks, the
1:38:39rejections, the coming out. I spent a
1:38:42lot of time drawing from those things
1:38:47their juice and their essence and their
1:38:49sap to be able to make films out of
1:38:51them and not to be able to understand,
1:38:54you know, how these traumas damaged me.
1:38:57damaged so that's what I've been doing
1:39:03in recent years. Red level
1:39:07damn
1:39:10you we’re answering just one red
1:39:11level question and you’re giving me
1:39:13three.
1:39:17Thanks. Do you have any regrets? What
1:39:22is your biggest source of insecurity?
1:39:26Which loss was the hardest to go
1:39:27through? Would you like to go see the
1:39:57other one? They're fine.
1:40:00But would you like to see the other one
1:40:01if you have doubts? Well, that's it.
1:40:02You can Oh yes, we’ll we can change
1:40:04the rules. What is your relationship
1:40:08with death? Let's leave it there.
1:40:11Bye. Great. Uh, you know what? Actually
1:40:19, I'll take that one.
1:40:20Perfect. And I don't know which one to
1:40:22remove, but I'll let you you can choose
1:40:25between those three.
1:40:26No, we're not picking any more. We only
1:40:27answer one question in the red level.
1:40:29That's good. That's cool. I'm prepared.
1:40:31I'm well prepared. I've done my
1:40:32homework. I'll take" what is your
1:40:34relationship with death. "Yeah, go
1:40:35ahead.
1:40:37Uh, I've always had the impression,
1:40:44since the beginning of, of, let's say,
1:40:45of, that I've been making films, since
1:40:47the start of my career, that, that I'm
1:40:51going to run out of time, you know,
1:40:53that, that I won't have enough time to
1:40:55say everything I have to say, to do
1:40:57everything I want to do, to, to talk
1:40:58about, about who and what I want to
1:41:00talk about. I always feel like it's a
1:41:04race against time, a race against death
1:41:07. And, uh, besides, it's also fueled,
1:41:12you know, uh, by, uh, the world we live
1:41:16in, which is also in a race, uh,
1:41:19against the planet, against wars,
1:41:22against, uh, against the rise of the
1:41:29far right, against the, the social rift
1:41:32, the social breach, this division that
1:41:35just keeps, that, that, that keeps
1:41:37growing, and is fueled by the haters,
1:41:40the, the, the platform vultures who,
1:41:43who want to feed that beast of, of
1:41:46hatred and who profit, obviously, uh,
1:41:52financially and, and in all sorts of
1:41:54ways from that hatred and that gulf,
1:41:56you know. So we, we are in a two-speed
1:42:01race, you know, mine against my death
1:42:05and, and mine against the death of, of
1:42:08society. And, uh, and I know that this
1:42:12sentence will be met with skepticism
1:42:15from, from people who," Ah, it's fine.
1:42:19"" If it's hotter in summer, yeah, well
1:42:22when it's hot, "you know, I, I
1:42:23certainly have a much more fatalistic
1:42:25approach regarding, regarding ecology
1:42:27and our consumption.
1:42:29But are you afraid of your own death?
1:42:37I don't know anymore. I used to think
1:42:38about it a lot at one point, and, uh,
1:42:43I'm more in a I'm in a, I'm in a
1:42:49mindset that is, is positive right now.
1:42:53I'm in an angle, if you will, of
1:42:54appreciation, of gratitude, not in a,
1:42:56that might be an anglicism. Here, I'm
1:42:58talking about negative bias. I I don't
1:43:01want to focus on what I don't have. I
1:43:03want to focus on what I have, and what
1:43:05I can create as well. I've always been
1:43:07a creator, well, I want to create
1:43:09things, opportunities for myself, for
1:43:11my friends. Uh so I don't think about
1:43:16death. I think I'm more afraid of the
1:43:20illness that leads to death.
1:43:23As for romance and company,
1:43:25these are like sex questions, right?
1:43:26They are
1:43:27Well, you'll see, you choose four, you
1:43:29can label them yourself. There are four
1:43:31, just give me three. Three.
1:43:33Sometimes I add more, it depends. So,
1:43:35there you go. Do you prefer to seduce
1:43:38or be seduced? It's still sweet
1:43:40to seduce.
1:43:41What memory do you have of your first
1:43:43time? What would you have liked to know
1:43:45about sexuality at 20?
1:43:49At 20, well, I would have liked, I
1:43:51would have liked for people to talk to
1:43:54me about consent, about intimacy, about
1:44:00psychology. It's both sexual and
1:44:02psychological. I think I would have, I
1:44:04would have wanted...I think even if the
1:44:11era we're living in now, you know,
1:44:13which makes us very aware and makes
1:44:15young people aware so much, you know,
1:44:20of notions of, of hypersensitivity or
1:44:22simply sensitivity, of essence,
1:44:24humanity, respect, listening, mutuality
1:44:26. Uh, I think we are a bit of a victim
1:44:33of an era that did it in a really
1:44:34shattering way, uh, through the media
1:44:37and through scandals, and that it
1:44:39antagonized part of the message, you
1:44:41know, to the detriment of the action.
1:44:44Yeah.
1:44:45So I think a lot of young people, uh, a
1:44:47lot of people are rebelling and are
1:44:50indignant, if you will, about this
1:44:52awareness of consent. And then, we
1:44:56quickly fall into" we can't say
1:44:57anything anymore, "" we can't do
1:44:59anything anymore, "" we can't anymore "
1:45:01...Uh, I try to understand both sides
1:45:03there, even if, you know, I will never,
1:45:05never condone, you know, toxic, hateful
1:45:07, or violent behavior, or uh...uh, but
1:45:15I, I...would tell you that I question
1:45:17the way of making people aware, once
1:45:19again, you know, through prohibition,
1:45:21condemnation, the, the, the the kind of
1:45:26sensationalist display of it in the
1:45:28press. You know, I wonder what we take
1:45:30away from it, and to what extent there
1:45:31is a healthy retention of it and not an
1:45:33antagonization, as I said, you know, of
1:45:34the messages to be retained. And anyway
1:45:36, I would have, I would have wanted, at
1:45:3820, for people to
1:45:39What would it have changed for you to
1:45:41know that at 20? Well, it would have
1:45:44changed the way I acted with with
1:45:46people, my way of, you know, there's a
1:45:48spontaneity that's that's that's nice
1:45:51in in love, you know. It's it's after
1:45:54that, you know, what's difficult is
1:45:55that it always depends on the judgment,
1:45:56you know, that you have. There are some
1:45:59who there are some who don't have it,
1:46:01there are some who do. How do we
1:46:02determine who has judgment and who
1:46:04doesn't? He's got a good head on his
1:46:05shoulders, he's capable of No, you know
1:46:06. But it's true that the notion of
1:46:11taking a risk when kissing someone, you
1:46:12know, there's always a context
1:46:14obviously, you know, which can be grim
1:46:16or toxic or where you could, one could
1:46:18say:" Well, it's obvious, they're not
1:46:19interested, can't you tell, "you know.
1:46:23But when both are interested and then
1:46:24well who makes the first move? There's
1:46:26there's an excitement in that which is
1:46:28still part for me of the history I've
1:46:29had with love, you know, and with
1:46:31seduction. But there are other aspects,
1:46:35other notions, uh, blurry, never
1:46:38addressed, uh, where I would have
1:46:40wanted that someone share that an adult
1:46:47share with me certain notions. But I
1:46:51think at that age, I think when I was
1:46:5320, the adults themselves probably
1:46:54didn't have them either. You know,
1:46:57instead of a biology class, well I
1:46:59think we had sex ed classes, but it
1:47:01seems so blurry to me. I think we were
1:47:03just messing around and putting condoms
1:47:04on bananas, you know.
1:47:05Yeah, that's it. It was more about the
1:47:06reproductive systems. I I there was
1:47:08there was it wasn't we weren't into the
1:47:10intimacy of bodies.
1:47:11That's it. You know, it's awkward. And
1:47:12the Judeo-Christian side means that
1:47:14well an adult shouldn't tell their
1:47:16child we should. And we don't want our
1:47:18parents to tell us" We need to have a
1:47:19conversation, honey. "" Oh no, you know
1:47:21, but we should have a conversation,
1:47:24you know, because, uh, I think I would
1:47:27have saved a lot of time not not being
1:47:30hurt, and I would have saved some
1:47:32others from being hurt, uh, by
1:47:35understanding, you know, certain
1:47:37obvious things which, when you've never
1:47:40experienced them, You can't just say, "
1:47:45Oh yeah, okay." That wasn't, you know,
1:47:47obviously that's what's complicated
1:47:50about this conversation, is that I
1:47:52don't want people to hijack it and
1:47:54claim it as a way to normalize
1:47:56problematic behavior. I'm just talking
1:48:00about that gray area where there's a
1:48:03spontaneity or a permissiveness that
1:48:05isn't obvious, and that "read the room"
1:48:08moment where you think, "Ah, you know,
1:48:10that's right, I often did that when I
1:48:13was younger, or I never thought it was
1:48:15a problem." But that's it, because I
1:48:19was...I was going to say something
1:48:21super vulgar, an example of...let's
1:48:23just drop it, but...
1:48:25And you prefer to seduce? That was the
1:48:27first thing you answered. Yes.
1:48:29You like that? It's hard.
1:48:30Yeah.
1:48:30Do you do that often, it's hard?
1:48:33Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:48:36What does...what does seduction bring
1:48:38you? Why do you like being in that zone
1:48:40?
1:48:41Well, it's fun to have that, that
1:48:43validation. I don't seduce just for the
1:48:46sake of seducing. No, I get that, when
1:48:51someone responds to your charm or your
1:48:53...It's pleasant validation.
1:48:57But you know, that's it, I don't seduce
1:48:59if I don't want there to be a follow-up
1:49:02. You know.
1:49:03That could mean you're a flirt, but I
1:49:05don't know.
1:49:08Yeah, but there are some who don't like
1:49:10that, who aren't comfortable in that
1:49:11zone.
1:49:12Who don't like being seduced. No, to
1:49:13seduce. Some people say, I don't have
1:49:16the audacity to go and seduce.
1:49:19Well, that...that depends, you know. I
1:49:23...I can also be super intimidated, and
1:49:28, you know, find my place in public in
1:49:30a...you know, if we're friends and you
1:49:32say, "Come on, there's a dinner with
1:49:33eight people," I'll go, "Oh my god, you
1:49:35don't know me well!" You know, I'll be
1:49:39scared, I'll be afraid of people, I'll
1:49:41be shy at the beginning, I...
1:49:43And here we are, 250 of us.
1:49:45Better than 250 people talking to you.
1:49:48No, but at 8, are you afraid of having
1:49:50too much attention on you?
1:49:51Too much? Yeah, or just being shy, or,
1:49:55you know, social intimacy is
1:49:58complicated. It's like bubbles,
1:50:01socialization. I, I, I think...
1:50:05But when do you seduce? Let's say
1:50:07someone likes you.
1:50:08But when I find someone who is
1:50:09beautiful, charming or intelligent, and
1:50:11sexy, and I want to sleep with them.
1:50:16I like your face.
1:50:16When others,
1:50:18that's what I'm telling you. Not when I
1:50:21don't, it's that, the flirting and the
1:50:23messing around that leads to nothing.
1:50:26That is very tiresome. You guys need to
1:50:28stop that right now.
1:50:31Uh, you know, if it's useless, well,
1:50:34it's useless. We don't do that, you
1:50:36know, that screwing around.
1:50:38Be honest with you.
1:50:40I would like, yeah, that's it. You
1:50:42don't have to tell me.
1:50:44So, a final question. The last question
1:50:46. What's on your bucket list? A very
1:50:51simple question, the last one. Uh work
1:51:04with Kate Winslet, work with Meryl
1:51:09Streep, go to Japan.
1:51:15Have you already been approached? By
1:51:17those two actresses.
1:51:19Mm-hmm.
1:51:20Have you already met them? Hm
1:51:21hm.
1:51:23And what's next?
1:51:26I don't know.
1:51:27So there are discussions already open,
1:51:28as you say. Not currently, you know, I
1:51:31already have a history, a past with one
1:51:34of the two but
1:51:37I would like that, I have nothing right
1:51:39now but
1:51:40it's something I would like to do, to
1:51:42be able to work. I find that Kate
1:51:44Winslet is really an actress who has a
1:51:46before and an after in her career. She
1:51:49is truly an actress that I have seen
1:51:51become an artist. I was like, okay,
1:51:54there is a mastery in her work that
1:51:57really struck me at one point. I
1:51:59thought, okay, she's reached a
1:52:01completely different level now. She is,
1:52:04we learn there, you know, Mare of
1:52:06Easttown, her series there, it's on
1:52:07Crave. It's, it's a masterclass in
1:52:14acting, you know. For an actor, it's
1:52:16like, okay. Ah, okay. Yeah, that's it.
1:52:19You see, for a director
1:52:21for a director too
1:52:22to direct her.
1:52:23Yes. Yes. Well, yes. But, but what I
1:52:26mean is mainly that, it's that the
1:52:31style, the elegance, the restraint, the
1:52:34embodiment, uh, it makes you realize
1:52:41the honesty of the performance. The
1:52:43honesty of her performance. say it
1:52:45It doesn't pull, the, you know. She has
1:52:47a moment, at a given moment, she, she,
1:52:49she talks to a psychologist or a social
1:52:51worker, I don't remember, about, well,
1:52:53the suicide of her son, you know. But
1:52:58you know, that scene, it’s the moment
1:52:59; you read that, and as an actor, you
1:53:01go: "I, I, I’m going to dive in,
1:53:02I’m going to, I’m going to..."
1:53:04It’s, it’s your scene, you know.
1:53:08But her detachment and her restraint,
1:53:11it was as if her goal was not to play
1:53:14that scene, not to have the
1:53:16gratification of that moment, not to
1:53:19have endless sobbing, crying, crying,
1:53:22pushing the button, crying, having
1:53:25watery eyes, and...We hold back in life
1:53:30, we hold back our, our, and it's even
1:53:32hard to act out restraint because it
1:53:34becomes something we're performing, you
1:53:36know. So it’s about holding back, not
1:53:38acting out restraint.
1:53:39Her accuracy
1:53:40and her precision—that’s just why I
1:53:42have so much admiration for Meryl
1:53:43Streep. Well, it’s been
1:53:45well Meryl Streep is, is Meryl Streep,
1:53:47right? It’s, it’s, yeah, it’s
1:53:49great, and then Japan, I haven't been
1:53:51to Japan yet.
1:53:52No.
1:53:52So that, that’s achievable.
1:53:54I’d like to go to Asia, there are so
1:53:56many—I mean, it doesn't, it’s not
1:53:58limited to just a nice bucket list. And
1:54:00it's fun. What I like
1:54:01Would you have wanted me to name
1:54:03something a little more accessible like
1:54:04going to brunch at the Manor? What I
1:54:07like doesn't exist anymore, so that
1:54:08won't work. You should be on The
1:54:10Traitors, it's filming. But, uh, the
1:54:13thing is, uh
1:54:15You know what I like about what you
1:54:17said is that you’ve already taken
1:54:19steps toward it. It’s not just thrown
1:54:22out into the universe. And one day—I
1:54:24love that side of you where, uh, you
1:54:27don’t just throw things into the
1:54:29universe.
1:54:31Well
1:54:31you face things.
1:54:33Yes, but I throw them out there too. I,
1:54:36I, I really appreciate how the universe
1:54:39right now, now that now that I’ve
1:54:44started taking care of myself and
1:54:47digging deep to understand, to get to
1:54:49the bottom of certain problems, to face
1:54:55them—I love how the universe sends
1:54:57things back to me. OK. certain things
1:55:04and places them, positions them in a
1:55:08magical and mystical way. I appreciate
1:55:15the synchronicity between the gratitude
1:55:18I feel and the efforts I make to work
1:55:21on myself, and the passion I feel in my
1:55:24work, and the passion I put into
1:55:26applying my—into applying my routine,
1:55:29actually. You know, I appreciate the
1:55:33synchronicity between those things and
1:55:35between the way the universe answers me
1:55:40. And I really believe in the universe,
1:55:44but I don't believe in sitting around
1:55:46waiting for the train to pass. I
1:55:49believe we put it out there, we do, we
1:55:53work and if it's meant to happen,
1:55:58that's when we can sometimes twist
1:56:01fate's arm if we work even harder. But
1:56:04it happens. Uh, but I believe in the
1:56:09alignment, you know, of the stars and
1:56:11in the universe, and especially in a
1:56:14universe that gives back, that answers
1:56:17us. It's a response. It's not an event,
1:56:23it doesn't just happen. It answers back
1:56:27. There is a communication, you know,
1:56:32with life. And it's embodied in a quote
1:56:42that I really love by Mark Twain uh who
1:56:48had a few pretty good ones, but I
1:56:49really love this one. And I apply it as
1:56:52much to a way of life and a general
1:56:54mantra as I do to little things I want
1:56:57to put off. Things I don't want to do
1:57:00right away, things I don't want to—
1:57:02and it is "the secret of getting ahead.
1:57:04" And I don't have the words to
1:57:10translate it with the same punch. But
1:57:13basically, if you want to succeed, if
1:57:19you want to get ahead, do it now, get
1:57:25to work right away.
1:57:28See, that's not very elegant as
1:57:30Yeah, but what it also means is if you
1:57:32want it to happen, just start. That's
1:57:34it. You have to start somewhere. And
1:57:38usually, you have to start somewhere,
1:57:41and eventually, that somewhere is here
1:57:45and now.
1:57:46Yeah. I see it as an imperative: start,
1:57:50and the present moment.
1:57:51Yeah.
1:57:52Well done. Did you get the game, if you
1:57:56want to play at home?
1:57:59Thank you so much, Xavier Dolan, for
1:58:01stopping by today. It's
1:58:04greatly appreciated, really. It's been
1:58:06a wonderful moment. Thank you so much.
1:58:08Thanks to everyone for being here. See
1:58:10you in the next podcast.
1:58:17This episode was presented by Karine
1:58:19Jonka, the reference for skincare in
1:58:21Quebec, and by the Mary Club, a space
1:58:23dedicated to wellness. The board games
1:58:28Ouvre ton jeu, original edition and
1:58:29couples edition, are available
1:58:30everywhere in stores and at randolph.ca
1:58:32.

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