WTV Meets Michael Woodford — Transcript

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1. 0:00so Mr Michael Woodford welcome to war TV
2. 0:03and to War uh thank you for taking the
3. 0:05time to sit down with us before
4. 0:06addressing the uh PPE Society I used a
5. 0:09phrase that I was quite fond of which is
6. 0:11that the cream Rises to the top but so
7. 0:14does Deadwood so if that's true not just
8. 0:17Edward uh if that's true then how do we
9. 0:20prevent poor corporate governance from
10. 0:22arising um I think the trouble with
11. 0:25Society is sometimes if you join a large
12. 0:27organization sometimes the brightest
13. 0:29people of the most threatening and
14. 0:31sometimes the mediocre people who get on
15. 0:33with everyone are the ones who Rise um
16. 0:36there's there's no format to stop that
17. 0:39if you have strong management at the top
18. 0:41hopefully they will choose management
19. 0:44beneath them so on that you also said
20. 0:48that you learned quite a lot of your
21. 0:49sort of morals from your Early Childhood
22. 0:51I noticed that you said you stole a very
23. 0:53small amount of money from your mother
24. 0:55and the repercussions from that sort of
25. 0:56guided you in life are therefore sort of
26. 0:59ethical corporate governance courses are
27. 1:01they worth their salt or I don't think
28. 1:03so I don't think you can teach ethics I
29. 1:05I think you know if you're at University
30. 1:09by that time your your values are forged
31. 1:11probably way way earlier exactly so it's
32. 1:14like leadership courses I'm I'm rather
33. 1:16cynical of those two the attributes of
34. 1:18people which are there or they're not
35. 1:20and how do you sort of pick out those
36. 1:21aspects of leadership is it you know
37. 1:23what do you look for I think you look at
38. 1:26the way a person acts within a group of
39. 1:28people because naturally leadership
40. 1:30comes through you you start seeing
41. 1:32people being deferential or or
42. 1:34acknowledging and going with the
43. 1:36Viewpoint of somebody who's a leader uh
44. 1:39and it's not always the sort of Macho
45. 1:40dominant sort of right uh jock of the
46. 1:44the of the football team it's the
47. 1:46sometimes it's the more subtle and
48. 1:47nuanced person who absolutely and is
49. 1:49that something you've learned working in
50. 1:51Japan is that the more culture there to
51. 1:53be more differential and I mean in Japan
52. 1:55Japan is not a meritocracy most
53. 1:57promotion is based on age and University
54. 1:59you to uh if you're young and Brilliant
55. 2:02you're just going to have to wait your
56. 2:04turn which is such a waste and if you're
57. 2:06a woman in Japan uh never mind at Senior
58. 2:09Management middle and Junior management
59. 2:10few women make it to the L it to the top
60. 2:14the other question I was going to ask is
61. 2:15again on this sort of ethical corporate
62. 2:17governance which I'm very interested in
63. 2:19uh is enough Focus given to it sort of
64. 2:21Human Rights abuses on the supply chain
65. 2:23or very poor working conditions and do
66. 2:25you feel more Focus for directors or
67. 2:27training should be given on that rather
68. 2:29than just the bottom line I hear the
69. 2:30bottom line talked about so often I
70. 2:32think I I I mean organizations aren't
71. 2:34good at placing themselves so the
72. 2:36example you gave in in in the retail
73. 2:39industry for clothing really you know
74. 2:41the public gets what the public wants
75. 2:43and if if you're a company which is
76. 2:44saying you know we pay this salary and
77. 2:47these are the conditions people work in
78. 2:49and you pay a little bit more for that
79. 2:50then you know it's up to all of us to to
80. 2:53make those
81. 2:54choices I you have to look at Society
82. 2:56not I don't I think the boardroom okay
83. 2:58so looking looking at at Society uh do
84. 3:01you think starting salaries in many
85. 3:04Industries now are too high for people
86. 3:05whove just graduated because I know
87. 3:07there's a lot of student debt and things
88. 3:08like that but equally I sometimes feel
89. 3:10that occasionally it sets out from day
90. 3:12one what's in it for me what's my
91. 3:14compensation not what I'm doing and do
92. 3:16you think that is right from the outset
93. 3:18a bit of a problem it's it's interesting
94. 3:20because I mean the PPE Society you know
95. 3:22a lot of people there will go into the
96. 3:23finance industry uh if you look at
97. 3:25journalism and Jour journalists with the
98. 3:27heroes in My Story you know they can
99. 3:29have the very best degrees from the very
100. 3:31best universities but they're paid
101. 3:33modestly and it's self- selecting I
102. 3:35think you know you you make your
103. 3:37judgments and some people are motivated
104. 3:39by the red Porsche and lots of do and
105. 3:41others for the sort of intellectual
106. 3:43stimulus of you know hopefully telling
107. 3:45the truth and and and bringing a story
108. 3:46which matters that's why I generally
109. 3:48would prefer to have a dinner party of
110. 3:49journalists than than Bankers it's fair
111. 3:52enough I did say Bankers it's a fair
112. 3:54Choice uh so the next question I was
113. 3:56going to give is when you come and give
114. 3:58speeches at universities or even
115. 4:00interviews like this the people watching
116. 4:02you uh speak might be the leaders of
117. 4:04tomorrow so and some of them will be
118. 4:06hope touchwood especially well hopefully
119. 4:09even better uh so do you what advice do
120. 4:12you wish you had been given at their age
121. 4:14given the career that you've had you
122. 4:16know I I always have a questioning of
123. 4:20business language or people have been on
124. 4:22MBA courses and what I try to do when I
125. 4:24talk is is show the sort of the Common
126. 4:26Sense and and and the need to be
127. 4:28recognizing of human attributes and
128. 4:31those things can be very negative so
129. 4:32it's just saying this is what we're like
130. 4:35and you can dress it up with lots of
131. 4:36jargon but never forget to be
132. 4:38questioning and cynical of those around
133. 4:41you that's that's what I try to impart
134. 4:43and obviously speaking of cynical that's
135. 4:45what you've become very well known for
136. 4:47uh of the Olympus Scandal and you
137. 4:49thought I might have avoided it
138. 4:50completely but I've got one or two
139. 4:51questions uh you were there for 30 years
140. 4:54did that make it more difficult to turn
141. 4:56whistleblower or did that make you want
142. 4:57to do right by the company more
143. 5:00I think I would have been the same if
144. 5:01it' been five years or 30 years it the
145. 5:04duration made me want to fight
146. 5:07to take control of the company and not
147. 5:09leave it in the hands of those uh who
148. 5:12who brought about such Misfortune for
149. 5:14the organization I believe that's our
150. 5:16beeper but I'm going to be cheeky and
151. 5:17ask one last question which is just I
152. 5:19presume the answer is no but I've always
153. 5:20interest always been interested was
154. 5:22there ever a moment or even a second
155. 5:24that when you were having to sort of
156. 5:25block up your letter box or have armed
157. 5:28guards did you ever just think I just
158. 5:30wish I'd left it alone or why me or
159. 5:32whatever or was the drive always there
160. 5:34that this had to it was always a sort of
161. 5:37theoretical academic question because I
162. 5:39was already too far along the bridge
163. 5:41there was no going back you know
164. 5:43logically there was no going back so
165. 5:45soed such things no it's a good attitude
166. 5:47well Mr Michael Woodford thank you so
167. 5:49much enjoy your talk interview oh thank
168. 5:51you