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Wrongfully convicted & sentenced to death row. Anthony Graves and Holly Cotton talk criminal justice — Transcript

by Holly Cotton · 10,748 words · 1,398 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Holly cotton here and you guys know I
0:03love love love a Feelgood story and I
0:07also am in love with people that are
0:11trying to be the change and I met this
0:13gentleman at an event that I was hosting
0:17and I loved his story as soon as he
0:20started talking and everyone was talking
0:22so highly of him I was like okay I got
0:25to hear his story in depth he was also a
0:28keynote speaker at the event so I cannot
0:31wait to hear his story today I have Mr
0:33Anthony Graves who is an author an
0:36exonary turned criminal justice Advocate
0:39he's done a lot of stuff again his story
0:42is very inspiring he has a whole bunch
0:45of stuff that he's doing to prevent that
0:47from happening to other people being a
0:49social justice and criminal justice
0:51Advocate now so welcome
0:55Anthony wow thank you thank you so much
0:57for the intro yes yes so before we go
1:00into it because I know I've I've
1:03actually had a few people that are kind
1:05of similar uh to your story that have
1:08been exonerated and I first I want to
1:11Define what exonerated is because a lot
1:14of people don't they get the two
1:16confused where you're just released on
1:19parole or probation or whatever and
1:22exonerated is completely different
1:24because to be exonerated means that they
1:26said you did not commit this crime we're
1:30sorry here's $5 good luck in Life or
1:35something something Prett much exactly
1:38so can you give us your story and kind
1:41of just go into whatever details you
1:43want to share about how you were wrongly
1:46convicted and then how much time you
1:48served and then we'll go later into how
1:51you got out and stuff but I just want to
1:52go back to the the actual conviction
1:55because that's always something people
1:56don't they think that the the criminals
1:59uh justice system is going to save them
2:01oh if I didn't do it then I'm I'm good
2:03I'm good but that's not the case right
2:07so so tell us your story
2:10yeah yeah so uh I take you back to
2:151992 a horrible crime had taken place in
2:18a small town Somerville Texas an entire
2:21family was murdered um they were shot
2:23staed blung to death gasoline was poured
2:26all over their bodies and the house was
2:28burned down uh the it was I
2:32think six people in the house four of
2:35them were children under the age of 10
2:37one was a teenage daughter that was 16
2:39and then the grandmother who was I think
2:4145 years old uh so imagine and in small
2:45town with less than 3,000 people uh a
2:47horrible crime like this take place
2:50everyone is in Outrage so much so that
2:52the mayil had come out the next day and
2:54said that whoever had done this case
2:56didn't even deserve a trial they should
2:58be caught and hang right and that's kind
3:00of the way they pursued the case because
3:02a week later they had the funeral and at
3:04this funeral a young man showed up with
3:06uh Galls around his face and his hands
3:09as though he's been in a fire had been
3:11burned he eventually became a person of
3:14interest to the Texas Rangers that were
3:16already there at the
3:18funeral uh after the funeral the Texas
3:21Rangers approached this young man who by
3:22the way name was Rob Carter and asked if
3:25they could speak with him uh he agreed
3:28and so they followed him home and when
3:30they got to his house they put him in
3:32their their vehicle and they took him to
3:34the DPS office where they begin to
3:36interrogate this young man for a period
3:38of 14 hours right at this point nobody
3:41knows what he had said and all of this
3:43here but at the end of the end of the
3:46interrogation they turned around and
3:48charge this man with capital murder uh
3:51but he had been saying no they had been
3:55telling him that they know that he
3:57hadn't done this crime by himself and
3:59they just want wanted the name of
4:00someone and if he could just give them
4:02the name of the person who actually done
4:04the crime with him they would let him go
4:06they just wanted the other person so
4:08according to Mr Carter at this time when
4:11they had took him to the DPS he thought
4:13he had seen four young black men in a
4:15jeep coming off the freeway onto the
4:17feeder and so in that jeep he thought he
4:20had seen Anthony grave so when they go
4:23to interrogating this young man and
4:24asked him to give him a name of someone
4:26who could have done the crime with him
4:28he called Anthony Gray's name because he
4:31thought he had seen me in the Jeep his
4:33thinking according to him was that they
4:36would now go and find out that Mr gra
4:38didn't have nothing to do with it but
4:40they would have also have let him go by
4:41then right and but that's not the way
4:44our system worked okay because once he
4:47admitted that he had done a crime and
4:49said that Anthony Grace was involved
4:50with him they turned around and charged
4:52him with capital murder and arrested him
4:54and put him in jail all right so the
4:56next day the next morning that was a on
4:59my door but this was my neighbor Mike
5:03and uh he had come to tell tell me that
5:06the police was looking for me and I'm
5:08thinking the police looking for me for
5:10what right he said I don't know man but
5:13they ask that that's your vehicle out
5:14there I'm like okay but I'm thinking if
5:17the police looking for me do I have a
5:19ticket out because I'm trying to think
5:21why would the police be looking for me
5:23so I said okay Mike and I thought well
5:25if the police was looking for me then I
5:27they have gone by my auntie's house
5:29because I go there every day so I
5:31decided to call my auntie and asked her
5:33had the police been down there and I
5:35called my auntie and she I asked her I
5:36said Ain it uh Mike just told me that
5:38the police is looking for me have they
5:40been by there she said no why would the
5:43police be looking for you I said I don't
5:45know but that's what Mike said she said
5:47well call the police station and find
5:49out so I said all right and then I hung
5:51up and I thought better of it I said
5:53well then if the police looking for me
5:55then I'll go downstairs go outside and
5:57try to find the police right because I
5:59want want to know why the police looking
6:01for me now this is the part of my story
6:03that I tell all my listeners who if you
6:06don't remember anything else that I say
6:10and narrating my story I want you to
6:12remember this part because this is the
6:14most important
6:15part don't ever go look for the police
6:18okay don't do that let them find you
6:22that is their job do not go look for the
6:25police that is lesson 101 don't look for
6:28the police because when I went out and I
6:31found the police right police pulls up I
6:35stop he gets out of his vehicle and he
6:37asked me my name I tell him my name and
6:41he noticed that I'm not nervous anything
6:43so he asked me for some ID I give him my
6:46driver's license and then he start to
6:48tell me that hey I've been told to come
6:50pick you up and take you to the police
6:52station C some also want to ask you some
6:54questions I saidwell can you tell me why
6:57because I wanted to let my mom know and
7:00he said no but when you get down there
7:01the officer would tell you so by this
7:03time my neighbor walks out who had
7:05knocked on my door and I'm telling Mike
7:08hey Mike this officer said I need I have
7:09to go to the police station with him but
7:11my mother's on her way home could you
7:13just let her know tell her I should be
7:14right back home right now because in my
7:17mind I have no idea why they arrested me
7:20but I know I haven't done anything wrong
7:22so I'm coming right back home well that
7:25took me
7:266,640 days and two execution dates
7:30before I was brought back home because
7:32see when I got down to the jail house my
7:34worst nightmare awaited me right they
7:36asked me to take out everything in my
7:38pocket and have a seat in the booking
7:39room which I complied you know and I'm
7:42sitting here in this booking room after
7:43I've done all this and I'm watching
7:45police officers walking in and out of
7:47the booking room but nobody is saying
7:49anything to me and so now I'm starting
7:51to ask because it's a Sunday and I'm
7:53ready to go right I don't need to be in
7:55no police station so I starting to ask
7:57the police officer hey man can somebody
7:59tell me I'm here and it was like well
8:01the officer is on their way they'll tell
8:03you when they get here so about 20 30
8:05minutes went by and then there are four
8:07Texas Rangers that walks into the
8:09booking room with a
8:10magistrate and they asked me to stand up
8:13and I did and the magistr start reading
8:16Me My Rights you know you have a right
8:18to remain Sol and everything and I'm
8:20trying to think where is this going all
8:23of this behind a traffic ticket that I
8:25don't even remember right and then at
8:27the end of it she says you've been
8:29charged with capital
8:31murder whoa wait whoa hold on this was
8:35my response we didn't never see the
8:37video till after I got out but this was
8:39my response and if anyone would have
8:41seen the video they would have knew this
8:43man knew absolutely nothing about what
8:45they was speaking on so I was like whoa
8:47wait me capital murder you sure I mean
8:50I've never even shot a gun in my life
8:52right this is my reaction and they say
8:54well would you like to talk to us of
8:56course I would like to talk to you I'm
8:58innocent I go back there and talk to
9:01them and they licen to me I'm everything
9:04but the child of God I'm I'm this I'm
9:07that but but I'm not going to lie on
9:09myself so I am stud trying to tell them
9:12that they got it wrong and I'll be
9:14willing to cooperate you know whatever
9:16they want me to do I'll be willing to do
9:17because I'm innocent so they was like
9:20okay would you be willing no I said I'll
9:22be willing to take a lot I was just
9:23about to ask you about the polygraph
9:26anything and so they was like well would
9:28you be willing to take polygraph I said
9:30man I'll take anything because I have
9:31nothing to hide they said okay well
9:33we'll set up a polygraph for you to take
9:35all right and so in the meantime they
9:38going to put me in this holding cell so
9:39I got to go into this holding cell while
9:41they set up a a polygraph test down in
9:44Houston Texas which is like an hour and
9:46a half away from where I'm at which is
9:47brunham Tex so I go into the holding
9:50cell and they keep in there for four or
9:52five hours right it's freezing cold but
9:54that's okay I just want them to get this
9:56right finally they say hey well we ready
9:59to to take you for the
10:00polygraph uh they get me they shackle me
10:04they take me put me in the patrol car
10:06and they drive 95 100 miles hour down
10:09highway to uh the DPS office here in
10:12Houston this is where we going to take
10:14the polygraph and how older are you
10:16right now Anthony just so people have at
10:18this age I'm only 26 years old I'm just
10:2126 and uh so when we get to the DPS
10:24office and they take me in there uh they
10:27introduce me to the polygraph operator
10:29man this is a this is a black man right
10:31so I I've been with all these white
10:33Texas Rangers and I just like speaking
10:34the truth I've been with all these Texas
10:36Rangers except that was one black Texas
10:38Ranger that was originally there but he
10:40left but I'm with all these white people
10:42and now they said we going to let the
10:44black guy give you the polygraph test
10:46all right because want you feeling
10:47comfortable okay fine no problem so me
10:49and the black guy we start making small
10:51talk he ask me about my children because
10:53I had three three kids at the time and
10:55uh I'm asking him about his and we we're
10:57we're establishing a good report so he
10:59say are you ready to take the test I
11:01said yes sir let's get it over with so
11:03he hooks me up to the test and he has me
11:06facing toward the door but he's behind
11:08me taking a polygraph and he asked me
11:11three
11:12questions is your name Anthony grave yes
11:15sir is Anthony Grace your name yes sir
11:18did you have anything to do with the
11:19David murders no sir is Anthony Grace
11:22your name yes sir and and those are the
11:24three questions he asked me and so
11:26finally after I but I hear him ripping
11:28up paper
11:30I don't know I don't know I'm not a
11:32polygraph operator so I don't know how
11:34to read it but I hear him ripping up
11:35paper and so he said well it's over with
11:38and I said to him I said oh man glad
11:41good so I can go home he said well not
11:43so fast sir I said what he said well you
11:46didn't pass the test now now so what did
11:50I lie by my
11:52name did did I lie when I said I wasn't
11:55that I know I told you the truth and now
11:58you telling me that I fell the lie
11:59detective said that's when I knew these
12:01people were not trying to find the truth
12:03in this case they was trying to put a
12:04case on me and now they wanted me to
12:07believe that I lied about a polygraph so
12:09that I can confess to a case that I did
12:11not do but I was built differently I was
12:15I I mean I'm not going to lie on myself
12:18I don't care who you are right and so
12:21did they ever show you the results of
12:22the polygraph what did he what was he
12:24ripping up did you ever figure out what
12:26he was he was ripping up the
12:28results never showed us the results as a
12:31matter of fact down the line when we
12:34petitioned for the results they could
12:36not find them me and my attorneys have
12:39never seen the results that they said I
12:41failed a polygraph on but they could not
12:44produce the results for the court
12:46because polygraphs are not admissible in
12:49court so they didn't have to come up
12:50with it right it's just a he say she say
12:52thing well we kind of figured out what
12:54was going on at that point right they
12:56was trying to get me to confess to a
12:58crime I did not commit so after they did
13:01the polygraph and he told me that that's
13:03when the Texas Rangers run into the
13:05office into the room where I was and
13:07they start playing good cop bad cop on
13:09me they grabbed me took my hand twisted
13:12up my back like they was gonna break my
13:13arm and rushed me out the room while
13:15another one came and like he's going to
13:17save me from the other bad cop takes me
13:20away from the bad cop now he wants me to
13:22come and talk to him because he wants to
13:24help me by this time I'm I'm I'm crying
13:27I'm not crying cuz I'm scared I'm crying
13:30CA be be honest with you because I like
13:31to beat this dude ass and just put his
13:33hands on me for something I don't know
13:35nothing about but I can't because they
13:37got guns and big hats and here it is I'm
13:39incarcerated and you're 26 too and you
13:42never been in it's different when you
13:44grew up and you was Thug and you've been
13:45in the court system since you were in
13:47high school right like you know what
13:49that means but yeah you were completely
13:52oblivious I was totally oblivious to the
13:55to the way this thing goes and so after
13:57this uh the the the officer sit me down
14:01and I'm crying he's trying to tell me
14:02hey just just tell me what happened I
14:04want to help you this and I'm started
14:06trying to tell him man I'm not going to
14:07lie on myself and I'm not gonna lie on
14:09nobody else I rather y'all do this the
14:11right way right and then uh so the other
14:13off walks to me walks over the the the
14:16the chief Ranger and he stands in my
14:18face and he just looks at me and he says
14:20to me I I will never ever forget these
14:23words he said Mr graes I'mma Be honest
14:26with you I don't think you did this
14:29but if you don't give me nothing to put
14:31on Carter we going to put this whole
14:32thing on you and if you actually
14:34innocent then don't let no grass grow on
14:36your grave and he looked at the office
14:38he said now get him out of here I looked
14:40at him I say so I got to go to P to jail
14:42for something I didn't do he looked me
14:44in my face he turned and he walked off
14:46at this point they drove like 95 miles
14:49an hour back to this other small town in
14:51Burson County where the C happen it and
14:54put me in jail put me in this small
14:56little dog Kel right and I by this time
14:59I hadn't talked to my mom and it's 2:00
15:01in the morning and I know my mom is
15:03worried and so I'm started asking him
15:05man can I talk to my mother he said well
15:08okay well when we book you in we'll let
15:09you call your mom so they book me in and
15:11I call my mom it's like 3:00 that
15:14morning she like where you where are you
15:16and I said man they got me somewhere in
15:18some jail up in marm County something
15:21talking about I'm I supposed to have
15:22done a crying I don't even know nothing
15:24about this this is me talking to my mom
15:26and she like I know you don't know
15:28nothing about this cuz the lady that was
15:30murdered worked with my mother at a
15:32state school they were best friends and
15:34nobody I didn't know my and and and so
15:38my mom was like you don't even know her
15:40right and I'm like but can you just
15:43least describe these people to me if
15:44I'mma have to be in jail for them right
15:46this is my mind and she was like don't
15:48worry about this you don't even know
15:50them and whatever I stayed in jail two
15:52and a half years waiting on trial I kept
15:56asking them to take me to trial and they
15:59kept pushing it off pushing it off I had
16:01a high paid Attorney At first who they
16:04were afraid to even go up against and at
16:05this time they was going to they was
16:07talking about dropping the charges
16:08against me but I couldn't pay this man
16:10$150,000 right and because I couldn't
16:13pay this man $150,000 he got off my case
16:16and when he got off my case then that's
16:17when the road prosecutor decided to move
16:19forward they hired they went and got me
16:21a a criminal defense attorney who hadn't
16:24been three years out of practice to be
16:27my lead attorney on the capital murder
16:29case he's never even tried to capital
16:31murder case black
16:32man so anyway they put me in jail two
16:35and a half years and I'm waiting try so
16:38finally uh after two and a half years
16:40they decide we're going to go to Trout
16:42I'm pushing them and I'm pushing them I
16:43want to go to Trout uh we want to change
16:47a venue so that I can get a fair try as
16:49they say so they gave me a change of
16:51venue down to this place called Angleton
16:53Texas little did I know that Angleton
16:55Texas was where they took the last case
16:57and warn on the man who had a mental ill
17:00issue that was the only case that had
17:01took to Angleton little did I know
17:03Angleton had a history of racism okay
17:06the clue cler's Clan the dragon uh the
17:08the the whatever he is Wizard live down
17:12there little did I know that I was being
17:14set up to be wrongfully convicted when
17:17they gave me this change of venue so
17:19after two and a half years we had this
17:21change of venue and we get down here to
17:23the uh angon Texas and
17:27uh the whole notion of me being there
17:30was that they wanted me to get a fair
17:33trial but by a week out from the trial
17:36the prosecutor was down there on the
17:385:00 news every day talking about me
17:40being guilty so he was taming the jury
17:42pool so by the time that the jury got
17:45there for V ey picking the jury
17:47everybody said he must have done
17:49something or you wouldn't had him here
17:51now these are people we're going to pick
17:5312 from that's going to be the jury of
17:55my peers whove already said he must have
17:59done something otherwise you wouldn't
18:00have him here now this whole notion of
18:03Innocence until proven guilty is hogwash
18:06it's hogw because you're taking 12
18:08people off the streets who know nothing
18:10about the law and you're putting them in
18:11a jury box and you say make the most
18:13important decision in the room but you
18:16don't know nothing about the law
18:19right say that too they said that you're
18:21guilty so the trial is to prove that
18:23you're innocent instead of the way that
18:26we think it is we think the trial is
18:29you're in you're they're trying to prove
18:30your guilt but actually the trial is to
18:32prove that you didn't do it that's the
18:35whole purpose of it is to prove your
18:36innocence okay I'm ready come on go okay
18:39okay okay I'm in I'm ready all right
18:41okay so in Angleton you got 12 jurors
18:44who's been they've been fed through the
18:46news that you're guilty and now you go
18:49to
18:50trial so yes so we we're in trial now
18:54and uh we got the 12 jured and my
18:57attorney who's a black man
18:59tells me cuz now you have to understand
19:01on my jury it's 11 whes and one black
19:04man that's been picked so my attorney
19:07comes to me he say well I'm going to go
19:08back into the Jury Room and see who's
19:11they who are they going to pick for the
19:13former and initi I mean immediately I
19:16just blurred it out man it's gonna be
19:18the black man he said why you say that I
19:20said man it's going to be the black man
19:22call the toen he said well let me go out
19:24and see yeah so he goes into the room
19:26five minutes later he comes back he said
19:29how did you know they was going to be
19:30the black man I said man these folks are
19:32F to convict me before they even hear
19:34this case I said then they going to put
19:36the black man as the face of the jury
19:38man I said be honest with me how many
19:40times have you heard 11 white white
19:42people ready and willing to follow one
19:45black man unless they know where he's
19:46going I said they know what they're
19:48doing they're making him he can't be the
19:51only person vote not guilty so they've
19:54already got a guilty vote from him
19:55because he's going to prove to them that
19:57he can do his job I seen this movie
19:59before all right this is history man and
20:02it's playing out I said think about uh
20:06uh Scott D Scott when he was on St and
20:10they said that he he couldn't claim
20:11property because he was property himself
20:14this is how they treating me man and he
20:16was like
20:18well let's just hope that that that's
20:21not the case say we go into a trial and
20:25lo and behold three days of testimony
20:27three days of test testimony they go
20:29back in that back room and in 9 hours of
20:32deliberation they come out and found an
20:34innocent man guilty of murder with no
20:37evidence no evidence they found a man
20:40guilty of
20:42murder and so after that point you have
20:45uh part two of your trial which is the
20:47uh punishment Faith sentencing so now
20:50then already convicted me of capital
20:52murder right uh and now it comes to the
20:54senton part and so my attorney is
20:56telling me I want to bring your family
20:59on to testify about your character and
21:01I'm telling them no I don't want my
21:02family involved and he's saying I want
21:04your family involved because the first
21:06thing I want to do is save your life I
21:08believe in your innocence but we need to
21:10save your life because the state will
21:12they will execute you right and I'm
21:14telling him no I don't want to do that
21:16but reluctantly I agree right because
21:18that my my my family wanted to do it so
21:21I listen to my mom get up there and talk
21:24about her son her oldest son being the
21:26glue of the family I listen until my
21:30sister get up there and talk about how
21:31her oldest brother helps her out with
21:34her children while she goes to night
21:35school our babysits for her right she
21:38was becoming a nurse and then I listen
21:41to my own son get up there and talk
21:42about you know my son has siel anemia
21:45and every time he would have a crisis I
21:47would always be at the hospital with him
21:48and I'm listening that my son sit up
21:50there and try to tell 12 people who
21:51don't know his dad that he needs his dad
21:54that his dad is his strength right after
21:57my son got down from that witness stand
22:01the 12 people went back into the Jury
22:03Room and an hour and a half sentenced me
22:05to death with no evidence my life had
22:08little value to them they sentenced me
22:10to death with no evidence so after this
22:14the I'm exhausted I'm really exhausted
22:17because I really thought that the system
22:19would work I'm innocent I don't even
22:21know the people I wasn't even in the
22:22same time of crime happening so how can
22:25you just convict me that's absolutely no
22:28evidence that puts me in this place but
22:32when the jury when uh uh my attorney
22:35said he was going to go back there and
22:37talk to the jury and see how what they
22:38came what was the reason for them coming
22:41up with this guilty verdict the first
22:43thing they told my attorney is that he
22:47showed no
22:48remorse while we was in the courtroom Mr
22:51Gray showed no remorse mind you that my
22:54attorney advised to me in the courtroom
22:58no matter what you hear I don't want you
23:00to respond to it because you don't know
23:02how the jury is going to take it don't
23:04shake your head don't do nothing right
23:06because you don't know how the jury is
23:07going to take that well because I didn't
23:10do anything they said they convicted me
23:13because I didn't show any
23:15remorse and because my
23:18attorneys uh were not good and they felt
23:22that if they convicted me then I would
23:24get new
23:25attorney there was no evidence that they
23:27used to convict me these this is what
23:30the jury how do they want you to show
23:32remorse for a crime that you didn't
23:34commit like it remorse means I did
23:37something and now I'm sorry it's not
23:39that it's not that you're not sorry that
23:40the people died but I'm not going to be
23:43remorse I didn't do it I I wasn't there
23:47what happened to the other guy the one
23:48that said that you were you were there
23:50what happened to him they they they
23:53convicted him uh and they uh executed
23:57him right so he was he was he was
23:59executed by the state in 2000 but here's
24:03the thing what we didn't know during
24:06this time is so when during my trial
24:09they had they had already convicted this
24:11young man but they brought him back to
24:13testify against me right during my trial
24:15but what we did know is he was refusing
24:18to testify against me because he was
24:19telling him that I was innocent and that
24:21he did not want to testify against the
24:23innocent man so they said Okay then if
24:26if you say he's innocent then take a
24:27polygraph test he said okay this is the
24:30morning of my trial we don't know this
24:32they got him in the back so they say
24:34they're going to set up a apograph for
24:36him he agreed to take a polygraph the
24:39when he took the polygraph they never
24:40asked him one question about Anthony
24:42Grade they asked him question about his
24:45wife involvement and then they turned
24:47around and told him that he he showed
24:49deception in the polygraph and that
24:52there was no statute limitation on going
24:54back after his wife because I didn't
24:55tell you but they had arrested his wife
24:57and charged her
24:58and had her in jail for two months and
25:00didn't let her go on a PR bu because
25:02they knew she had nothing had nothing to
25:04do with it but let her go and told her
25:06to keep going because there was no
25:07statute limitation on the case so at
25:10this point the guy now they tell him he
25:13showing deception in the in the
25:15polygraph so he decided at this point he
25:17needed to allow Mr Grace to protect his
25:20wife so he said I did the how did he say
25:22it I did the
25:24The Rock somebody rocking the heart he
25:27was in The Rocking in a hard place and
25:28he did the less of the two evils he lied
25:31on Mr Grace he said so so at that point
25:34they know that he's lying on Mr Grace
25:36but they're okay with that so he came up
25:39and and doing a trial and testified that
25:42I was involved in this case with him but
25:44he never could look me in my face he
25:46pointed like that when they asked him to
25:48point me out but then immediately after
25:50that he went back to claiming my
25:52innocence and said that he had been
25:54telling them this whole time that I was
25:55innocent but they never told us this so
25:58we had had a hearing on it they had a
26:00deposition and where Mr Carter uh was on
26:03death rad they brought the state
26:04attorneys they brought Mr Carter out and
26:06they had a deposition down there and Mr
26:08Carter in front of the state and
26:10everyone told that prosecutor I told you
26:13Mr grav was inoc you told me that's not
26:15what you wanted to hear he said oh Mr
26:18now now M now Robert you know were you
26:21honest when you were saying that he said
26:22yes you remember you came to my cell and
26:25I told you Mr AB bestas I do not want to
26:27testify against Mr Gray because he's
26:29innocent you said that's not what I
26:31wanted to hear he said I told you over
26:34and over this man was innocent so he
26:36testified before his his his execution
26:40in front of the whole in front of the
26:41state that he had been telling the state
26:43that I was innocent and they never told
26:45nobody this so when Mr Carter was
26:48getting
26:49executed his dying Declaration on his
26:52execution table in
26:552000 he had his family there and the Vic
26:58victim family was that and he could have
27:00said any any any and everything he
27:02wanted to say this was his moment what
27:05he chose to say shocked the whole world
27:09he chose to use that time to reiterate
27:12once again Mr Graves is innocent that
27:15man is innocent I lied on Mr Grace he
27:18knows nothing about this case my wife
27:20knows nothing about this case those were
27:22his dying words is he was still trying
27:25to write or wrong and they knew this but
27:28it took me 10 well eight more years to
27:30come home and along with two more
27:32execution dates by this time now they're
27:35trying to murder me because this young
27:37man has been telling the world that I'm
27:39innocent but they don't want to do the
27:41right thing so what they done they end
27:43up setting me to execution dayses back
27:45to back trying to murder me and I would
27:48hadn't even went through my appeal
27:49process yet now they was hoping that the
27:51attys would make a mistake and they
27:53could murder me and nobody would know
27:55anything about this case but God is good
27:59all right and I'm not the person that
28:01just lay down like that I was writing
28:03any and everybody while I was back there
28:05asking them to please help me save my
28:07life I don't care who you were if you
28:09were 6 years old 8 years old 28 58 all I
28:13was asking you to do is please help me
28:15save my life and so because of all of
28:18that I started an organization called
28:21join hands for justice Behind Bars and
28:23it started overseas in Europe I reached
28:26out to people in France Norway Sweden
28:30Germany uh China all over the world Togo
28:33Africa please help me save my life and
28:36from that I like I said I started this
28:38nonprofit from behind bars called join
28:41hands for justice and everybody from
28:43across the globe started coming together
28:45in my name uh uh kind of echoing from
28:48the shores of Europe of my innocence and
28:51it got here and then when it got here a
28:55uh freelance investigator heard about
28:58came down and interviewed me found out
29:00about my case was shocked reached out to
29:02the innocent project and said this is a
29:04case I think y'all really need to get
29:05involved in uh and uh it took about
29:09another eight to 10 years but I
29:12eventually came home because uh they
29:16found out what they already knew was
29:18that I was actually innocent and so
29:21because of that I've dedicated my life
29:23to advocating for a better Criminal
29:25Justice System so that this does not
29:27happen to anyone else I have three boys
29:30out here and I definitely don't want to
29:31visit them in prison for a crime they
29:33did not commit so I'm dedicated to
29:35advocating for a better Criminal Justice
29:37System today because of what I went
29:40through so we're going to go into that
29:42but what I want to also do Anthony is
29:45because I want I want to to share your
29:49story so I I I want people to be able to
29:55hear your story and then realize how
30:00insane and intense and and how those
30:03moments were for you so I know you gave
30:06us the the how you got arrested and then
30:09the conviction and and all of that and I
30:12also know how you gave us the free
30:13advice don't go looking for the
30:17police don't go if the police if someone
30:20says the police are looking for you do
30:22not go look for
30:25them I love that advice thank you but
30:28what I want to do is I want to also show
30:31you as a person and I want you to go
30:34back to that moment of where you're
30:36sitting in the court because I know you
30:38said that you had the mindset of holy
30:41crap they're really going to convict me
30:43like they're really gonna say I'm guilty
30:45of this like you thought it was but it's
30:48to actually hear those words and and the
30:51process that comes after that is
30:53completely different it's kind of like
30:55you know you on the scale and you're
30:56like I know I'm a good 150 I know I'm
30:59you know but I've been eating bad I'm
31:02probably about 180 but you don't really
31:05think it you know you're hoping when you
31:06step on it the scale says you're 135 or
31:09something you know you don't want to
31:10believe it so it's kind of like that
31:12it's like you you were envisioning that
31:14they were going to find you guilty there
31:16were so many signs that were saying that
31:18you're that they were going to find you
31:20guilty with the jury and everything else
31:22but I know you still had hope in your
31:25heart that they were not going to say
31:27say those words so can you go back and
31:31tell us exactly when the foreman stood
31:34up made the announcement how it happened
31:37and what happened next and and you know
31:39because that's other thing too people
31:41don't see I just see move stuff on TV on
31:43the movies or whatever where now they
31:45put you in handcuffs and you're gone but
31:47we don't know what it is to live in that
31:49moment so can you give us I know it's
31:52it's a hard to go back and relive it but
31:54I want whoever is listening to hear that
31:57because that's what happens in these
31:59cases people forget that you're a real
32:01person they they almost dehumanize you
32:05in that moment because they see you as a
32:06criminal you did something so lock them
32:08up throw away the key so can you tell us
32:11about that when they said that you were
32:12guilty and then what happens after that
32:15yeah uh
32:16so we were sitting at the table and you
32:20know it's
32:2212 I'm going just be honest I see white
32:25people who are F to make a decision
32:28about my life right on something that I
32:30know absolutely nothing about right uh
32:33in a small Texas town right where racism
32:37exists and it's I mean the grand wizard
32:41live in this town okay so when they ask
32:45for the verdict and I seen the jury the
32:49foreman stands up and the bayb gets the
32:52note from the uh foreman and hands it to
32:55the judge the judge starts he looks at
32:58the note and then he tells everybody in
33:00in the audience okay when I read the
33:03verdict I don't want no responses from
33:05no one right uh everybody has to be
33:07quiet read the verdict okay so he says
33:12uh Mr Grace and that's my turnning which
33:14you please rise so I stand up but but I
33:18know what's happening I I I already know
33:21what's happening 11 white people out of
33:24my jury one black who's the former who
33:26has to follow the 11 white I understand
33:29what's happening so when I stand up and
33:31he start reading the the charge and then
33:34it says that I've been found guilty of
33:37capital
33:38murder
33:41uh I all my energy just drained out of
33:45my body I I
33:48was even though I I I I I I knew this I
33:53I understood the history still I was
33:56hoping that they did the right thing I
33:58was still hoping that I would be wrong
34:00and they would actually do the right
34:02thing but but as history is a good
34:06teacher uh I knew I would I knew I had
34:09the right answer uh immediately when I
34:12seen the setup and and so because I was
34:17so drained emotionally physically
34:20spiritually I just sat down and told the
34:24prosecutor them thought I didn't
34:26understand but but I understood I was
34:29just drained because I've been fighting
34:31for 2 and 1/2 years trying to prove that
34:34I'm innocent and now here you are you
34:36done convicted me sent I mean give me a
34:39guilty conviction and now what do I do
34:43with this and so I'm just drained so the
34:46pro the the uh prosecutor jumps up and
34:48said judge I don't think he understand
34:50what's going on but I understood you
34:52just lied on me and now you going to add
34:56me to your tree of K black people okay
34:59so so I'm just trying to process this
35:02how did I go from being a model citizen
35:05being a person that everybody like to
35:07being sentenced for a crime found guilty
35:10for some killing black people black
35:13children are you serious this what you
35:16gonna put on me I don't I never even
35:18shot a gun in my life I never harmed
35:21anyone I'm not a criminal and this what
35:23you're going to put on me so I'm just
35:26drained I'm emotional just drain and uh
35:30so when he said that that he didn't
35:32think that I understood the judge said
35:34told my attorney counselor would you
35:37approach the bench with your client so
35:40me and my attorney had to go and stand
35:43in front of the judge while the judge
35:45explained to me that the state has just
35:48convicted me
35:51right okay all right so after that I'm
35:55listening he said do you understand I
35:56just did this shrug my shoulder but I'm
35:59not there I'm I'm not there you're not
36:01going to convince me that I did
36:03something that I know I'm not I I didn't
36:05do you're not going to convince me to
36:06play along I'm I'm sorry I'm not that
36:08person so so after that they ended up I
36:12look behind me and I see my family my
36:14mom my CH my boy and my siblings them
36:18right and and and they're trying to hold
36:19it together for me and everybody is like
36:22it's going to be all right it's going to
36:23be all right but you know yeah it's
36:26going to be all right but damn I'm
36:27broken right now because I I really
36:29wanted to go home I really wanted to be
36:31with my family I really wanted to be
36:33with my son and and and I got to go I've
36:37been convicted and so now you got to
36:39have the second part and that's when
36:42they're telling me that uh they wanted
36:45me to get on put my family up there and
36:47I'm telling them no and my family goes
36:50up there and testify and then my son and
36:52all testify in the second part and
36:55afterwards they go back like I said an
36:57hour and a half find me guilty so when
37:01they ask me again to stand in front of
37:03the judge so he can tell me that they
37:05sentence me to debt and I'm I'm looking
37:07at this judge and he's telling me that
37:11the state sentence me to debt as though
37:14he's going to live forever and I'm
37:16saying to myself man do not get caught
37:19up in word play do not get caught up in
37:21word play all right there's nothing
37:23that's going to happen to you without
37:24God grant it okay it has to be the will
37:27of God and remember that always remember
37:29that so can't nothing happen to you
37:31without the will of God so stay there
37:34stay in that space that saved my life
37:37because there was nothing that they
37:38could do to me that I felt could touch
37:40me unless God granted them per
37:42permission and I knew then okay this is
37:46bigger than me I need to pay attention
37:48to what's going on in my life and so for
37:50the years that I was down there
37:52witnessing so many men get executed I
37:54witness over 400 some people get
37:56executed around me I was growing in the
37:58knowledge of what was really happening
38:01in our criminal justice system so that I
38:03could get out here and share with the
38:05rest of the world so I felt like at the
38:07end of the day I went through all that I
38:09had to go through so that I can get back
38:11out here and advocate for a better
38:12Criminal Justice System that does not
38:14Target it
38:17people so when when you got convicted
38:20and then you were sentenced to death did
38:24they take you off to prison and were you
38:28on death row immediately like is that
38:31what happened or do there is there a
38:33transitional place or once you get
38:34sentenced to to death they're just like
38:38he's going on death row yeah well that
38:39was sort of a transition because you
38:42know when I I I got the v in Angleton so
38:45once I was convicted they had to take me
38:47back to the regular jail where where the
38:49case happened in and that was on Friday
38:52so they took me back to the to the local
38:54jail on that Friday at Monday morning
38:57they transported me off the death row so
39:00it's like two days and I'm headed to
39:02death row and I'm not a criminal and I
39:05all I know is this is where the worst of
39:07the worst supposed to be and I supposed
39:09to go live with all these people and I
39:12don't know nothing and I'm I'm scared
39:15right and and but but I'm not going to
39:17lie on myself that's that's nobody that
39:20walks this Earth that's going to make me
39:21lie right and and that's just what what
39:23it's going to be I've already made my
39:25peace with God that this is bigger than
39:27me
39:28so so God if you just keep me and
39:31sustain me through this whatever your
39:33will is I do what whatever it is you
39:35want me to do I do and and and so this
39:37is why I've dedicated my life to what
39:39I'm doing because I made that promise
39:41with my God you just see me through this
39:44because I seen so many people losing
39:45their minds before they were able to
39:47execute it right and I'm just asking God
39:49that's what I was gonna say too Anthony
39:51I was going to say it's like even if you
39:53don't believe in God even if you have
39:55another version of of like you know
39:58Jehovah Allah whatever you you got to go
40:02you got to dig deep for spirituality
40:05either something is gonna have to keep
40:07you going or you're just going to go off
40:10into you know a web of depression now
40:14let me ask you this so as someone who
40:17was falsely convicted or excuse me as
40:21someone who was wrongly convicted of a
40:24crime and were sentenced to death do you
40:28feel that the death penalty is unjust
40:33are you against the death penalty or
40:35since being on death row and seeing
40:38people that are actually who committed
40:41these crimes and who are actually like
40:42owning that they did those crimes and
40:44you're like oh my God that's heinous
40:47yeah you deserve to die do you feel that
40:50that being wrongly convicted sort of
40:53made you feel differently about like
40:56death r and and the death penalty well
40:59you know I I
41:01would I've gone through a lot of
41:04emotions with this uh I thought about
41:07this extensive how do I really feel
41:10about the death penalty right because I
41:13know there are some people that I met
41:15down there that I would never want to
41:17see out here never want to see living
41:19around my children my family my mother
41:22right but the same people that I'm
41:23talking to you about have issues mental
41:26illness issues and we say kill
41:30them that so that so the people that I'm
41:33saying I would never want to see out
41:35here are the people that I I also say
41:38need real mental help but we're saying
41:42don't give them that just kill them and
41:44so for that reason and others I don't
41:48believe in the de penal not in the
41:51perfect world maybe but I was down there
41:55and I know that even though I was in
41:57innocent I was a lottery pick there were
41:59other innocent people down there was not
42:01coming home they were getting executed I
42:04was a lottery pick so because I know
42:07this firsthand I cannot support a death
42:10penalty that I know was executing
42:11innocent people I know this for a fact
42:14no reading no books no rotting
42:16television I live down there I listen to
42:19those guys who were getting executed who
42:21I had to convince to walk keep what keep
42:24their head up and have some dignity
42:25about themselves while the state was
42:27murdering them and they were claiming
42:29they're
42:30innocent I witnessed this so I cannot
42:34believe in something that I know is
42:36infallible I mean fallible I know as man
42:41put this together man made many mistakes
42:44and it's carrying out that way we are
42:46executing innocent people and we're
42:48calling it justice and we have people
42:51supporting it because we're selling them
42:53fear and saying that this is what we
42:55have to do to keep you sayfe that this
42:58person is is is no longer redeemable I
43:02met men back there who we call the worst
43:04of the worst will give you the shirt off
43:06their back they no longer had mitigating
43:09circumstances in their life they were no
43:11longer being abused by their parents
43:13being put in uh uh closets and
43:16suffocating they were no longer having
43:18guns being on drugs they were no all
43:21those things were removed and what you
43:22had was a person that was remorseful a
43:25person that wish they just had another
43:27chance not all of them some people had
43:30given up on life and was and was okay by
43:33being executed because they didn't think
43:35they had a life outside of the bars
43:37anyway so they was fine with being
43:40executed but for the most part I met men
43:42down
43:43there who laughed who cried who loved
43:47their family who talked about their
43:50mothers and who was trying to face death
43:54hello because they knew that that was
43:57going to be the end result behind those
43:58bars I met those men and I did not walk
44:02away saying man all of them need to be
44:04executed I walked away feeling like half
44:06of them was my friends some of them was
44:08family members to me some of them what
44:10they did for me no one else out here
44:11would have ever done in that situation
44:14that I was in so no I don't believe in a
44:16death penalty because I think that
44:18believe the death penalty says that
44:20we're giving up on people too quick who
44:23are us to judge who are you to tell the
44:26world that I need to die and you getting
44:29it wrong what happens to you
44:33now how can we support something that is
44:37fallible as the death penalty how can we
44:39do this because at some point your child
44:43your loved one your neighbor is going to
44:45be faced with this and you're going to
44:47have to decide at that point do you
44:48still believe in the death penalty it
44:51can't be for other people because I tell
44:53people all the time if you believe in a
44:56death penalty that's perfectly fine with
44:57me but you better believe in it when
44:59they come and arrest your son and your
45:00daughter and talk about he done
45:01something that's the same sentence that
45:04they going to carry out on your child
45:06you better be willing to believe in it
45:08then because it's not fair for you to
45:09believe in it for everybody else's child
45:11and not your
45:12own remember whatever you wish to to be
45:16a part of the fabric of our Criminal
45:18Justice System you're not exempt from it
45:20nor is your family so think very
45:23carefully when you ask that answer that
45:25question do I believe in the death
45:27penalty cuz when you say yes remember
45:30you're saying yes to your mother you're
45:32saying yes to your brother you're saying
45:34yes to your your family members if they
45:36so get in that
45:38situation remember
45:42that dang it Anthony how I'm supposed to
45:45make some clips for social media you
45:47don't you don't made us catch the Holy
45:49Ghost like 15 times you got me about to
45:51shed the tear
45:53yeah I'm supposed to I supposed to make
45:56a CLP a three minute clip from all of
45:59this you know what I
46:02can't okay man that was deep oh my
46:06goodness and I have a big heart because
46:07I cry for everything so you got me about
46:09to cry U so all right now we done caught
46:13the Holy Ghost we Anthony done preach to
46:17us we done got it he done told you about
46:20yourself you better be ready you better
46:22be ready I love it I love it Anthony
46:25okay so tell us about the to close
46:29everything up tell us about like you
46:30said now you have this mission that you
46:32started in prison Behind Bars and tell
46:36us what the mission is and how like what
46:39are we doing how can I support it just
46:42being someone on the outside oh wow the
46:44mission is it's it's is
46:46revolutionary uh so since I've been out
46:49when I was back there I've seen that a
46:51lot of guys didn't have support right
46:53families would have just left them for
46:55years they haven't heard from anyone and
46:57that makes them want to give up they
46:58were dropping their appeals they just
47:00wanted to be executed because they had
47:01no one in their life right it was it it
47:04wasn't even the case that was the
47:05hardest thing it was the fact that there
47:07was no one in their life right to be
47:09that that was suppor so when I came home
47:12you know I started doing the innocent
47:13project innocent Clinic I got the next
47:15exonary out which was after Dwayne Brown
47:18but I felt like I needed to do more
47:21right uh people were coming out of
47:22prison and were not giving any second
47:24chances they we call them Second Chances
47:26but they were not giving second chance
47:28they were giving minimal jobs you know
47:30you can get a job as a janitor but you
47:32couldn't get a job as a substitute
47:33teacher right so I said well you know
47:37when I got out attorney started calling
47:39me asking me to help them with their
47:41client and I started visiting their
47:42clients and when I would go visit the
47:44client it was just totally different
47:46there was an instant communication there
47:48that I mean uh connection there uh trust
47:51was already there right and so I was
47:53helping them navigate unique skill set
47:55coming out of prison to go back and
47:58Mentor men and women incarcerated as
48:01well as their family and we can get to
48:04the best outcome man we can reduce
48:05recidivism we can save time all of these
48:08good things so I created what is called
48:11a peer Navigator project that is that is
48:14training formly incarcerated individuals
48:16how to work alongside criminal defense
48:18attorneys to go back into the jails and
48:21Mentor their clients as well as their
48:23family members and hopes of getting to
48:25the best outcome in the courtroom so I
48:27created the peer Navigator project and
48:29I'm working along with criminal defense
48:31attorneys to do this work and it's been
48:33amazing it has been transformative game
48:36changing uh matter of fact some of the
48:38attorneys come to me now and say hey man
48:40since I found out about this peer
48:41Navigator project I cannot find see
48:44myself working without one so it's a
48:46game changer right uh I'm in talks with
48:49a lot of different organizations who
48:50want peer Navigators to come on and
48:52Mentor their clients a lot of other
48:54attorneys want peer Navigators to come
48:56on and M de CL so it's a groundbreaking
48:59uh transformative uh uh revolutionary
49:02experience that I think is going to
49:04really shape the courts and shape the
49:06criminal justice system and save us a
49:08lot of time now do you do anything
49:11because I I know this is my last
49:13question but do you do anything with
49:15like the youth or like the juvenile
49:19criminal system or is it specifically
49:22for like do you have a specific
49:24population of people that you're
49:26reaching out who's your who's your
49:28targeted audience with with your your
49:31program all men women boys and girls
49:33that are incarcerated okay that's it
49:36that's my targeted audience and their
49:38families you know because we want to
49:41help them get through the worst parts of
49:42their
49:44life I love that I love that okay so
49:47Anthony is also an author I he he made
49:50us catch the Holy Ghost 15 times so we
49:52ain't even get to his book his podcast
49:55all of his other stuff so
49:57we GNA have to get him to come back but
50:00the the stuff that you did share was
50:02definitely a different angle and I love
50:06that you were able to give us that
50:07inside perspective of it because for me
50:10hearing that story putting it to a like
50:14putting a story with a person and and
50:17actually not something you see on the
50:18movie but just allowing us to see a
50:22personal side of that is like the
50:25Priceless so thank you for telling us
50:27about that so how can people
50:31again get your book support you uh do
50:34you have a website if if there is
50:36someone that is incarcerated how can
50:39they reach out to you or you know family
50:42member that might be saying oh well you
50:44know what can he do for my son who's
50:46locked up and going through the same
50:48thing as
50:49him yes uh we have a website PE
50:52Navigator project.org and you can reach
50:56out out to me at
50:59agav
51:00project
51:02gmail.com if you want to just reach out
51:04to me personally that again it's
51:08agav project gmail.com but if you just
51:12want to go check out our website and see
51:13the amazing work we're doing just go to
51:16P Navigators project.org and uh
51:19hopefully you know if you're formally
51:21incarcerated if you have a loved one
51:22that's incarcerated and you want to
51:24learn more about how you can support
51:26them send us an email reach out to us
51:29join our class let's come together and
51:32let's make a better a system better for
51:34all of us so yeah peer Navigator
51:37project.org it's game changing and can
51:40people uh volunteer or help or how can
51:43how can we support you because I don't
51:45know anyone thank thank God I don't know
51:47anyone or none of my family members are
51:50incarcerated at right now fingers
51:53crossed so but say there's people like
51:56me but they're inspired by your story
51:58and they want to help they want to
52:00donate they want to participate be a
52:02part of this movement what can we do
52:04from the outside that don't even have
52:06anyone that's incarcerated but just we
52:08just want to be part of the organization
52:10well the first thing you can do and this
52:12is so important and I know you probably
52:14hear this all the time but this is so
52:16very important this is expensive work
52:19donating that is that is that is more
52:21than half the work funding resources or
52:25if you have any organization or if you
52:27are part of organization and you want to
52:30extend your services to someone that is
52:32formally incarcerated reach out to us
52:34and let us put you in our database so
52:36that we can know where you are and what
52:38you do so we can send people your way
52:40when you try when they need help uh
52:43those are things that you can do but
52:44donating signing up for uh uh volunteer
52:49services to just help people kind of re
52:51acclimating themselves back into society
52:53if you want to be part of that if you
52:55have resources
52:56if you have organizations that gear
52:59toward helping people that are trying to
53:00get back into society man please reach
53:03out to us because you know we as what I
53:06come to realize that a lot of people do
53:08this work in silos in silos and so it's
53:11it's a lot of people get they fall
53:13through the cracks because they don't
53:14know what these silos are but if we can
53:16all come together if we can all come
53:18together we can help these people and we
53:21can fulfill the missions that we
53:23promised ourselves we would do so yeah
53:25reach out to me P Navigator project agab
53:29gmail.com let's come together and make
53:31this thing work yeah I love that I love
53:35that and that's another thing too that I
53:37always try to like when I hear people's
53:39story like yours Anthony or I see people
53:41that are doing things to be the change a
53:44lot of times I try and it's hard for me
53:46too as someone that's in the media
53:48because I try to make sure I'm able to
53:50personalize it without exploiting
53:52someone's story but people don't realize
53:55how important it is to share stories
53:58like yours it's not ex it's it's not
54:01exploiting it it's letting people know
54:03that this is a thing this is something
54:05that's going on these are real people
54:07that are being affected and a lot of
54:09times people don't know how they can
54:11even help or they don't know that there
54:13is a need for help until we highlight
54:16stories like yourself so thank you for
54:19being that vessel that sharing this
54:21story and sharing this Mission and you
54:23guys scroll down to the podcast notes I
54:26will have all of Anthony's information
54:28that he just dropped the the email the
54:30website information and all of that
54:33stuff in the podcast notes so just
54:35scroll down to the notes and you can
54:37find CLI links yes sir and I I just want
54:41you to know I'm also have launch my
54:43podcast called Beyond bars okay so I
54:47would love for you guys to go tune in
54:49that would be a great a lot of great
54:51storytelling from people who've been
54:52formally incarcerated who's come out
54:54here and have have success to share with
54:57us so we want to hear about the success
54:59of people coming out and changing their
55:01lives so uh that's what beyond beyond
55:03boss PA podcast would be about those
55:06successful stories of people who are
55:08coming out of coming from incarceration
55:10so okay great okay well if you got
55:13anybody that has a great story you know
55:14send them my way because your girl
55:16always I would definitely send them your
55:18way you know C I'm about collaboration
55:21it ain't no competition we collaborate
55:23we going collaborate when they get
55:25through with me I'm send them to you
55:27there you go I love it I love it okay
55:30that is Anthony Graves you guys thank
55:32you Anthony thank you so much hly and
55:36okay oh I was just gonna say thank you
55:38so much and uh hopefully I can join your
55:41podcast again one day and and just kind
55:44of keep people up on what we're doing

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