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Wrongful Convictions & Cold Cases: An Interview with Jeffrey Deskovic who was wrongfully convicte... — Transcript

by The Andy Hale · 7,600 words · 1,017 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:07hey everybody welcome back to another
0:10episode of wrongful convictions and cold
0:12cases I've been looking forward to this
0:15episode for a while we've got a very
0:18very special guest on a friend of mine
0:21I've known him for several years some of
0:23you may know his story probably a lot of
0:25you don't his name is Jeff deskovic um
0:29it's an incredible story I don't even
0:31want to do any spoiler alerts I want to
0:32just kind of tell the
0:34story
0:36chronologically and walk through it and
0:39then when we kind of get through the
0:40story we'll Circle back and I got a lot
0:42of questions Jeff good afternoon good to
0:44see you uh good afternoon Andy great to
0:46see you again let's set the stage you
0:49are currently how old 49 all right let's
0:53go back in time to when you were 16
0:56years old is that correct it is correct
0:58you're 16 years old old you're living
1:01where in Peak Skill New York which is
1:03the suburbs that's in Westchester County
1:06all right you're a 16-year-old kid
1:07you're going in high school I take it at
1:08the time yes all right you're 16 years
1:11old that's a you know that's an
1:14interesting time for people you're kind
1:15of growing
1:16up what happens when you are 16 years
1:20old that changes your life tell me do
1:23the police come talk to you yes they do
1:26so a classmate of mine uh Angela karea
1:29uh she was in two of my classes is a
1:30freshman one is a sophomore uh she's an
1:33immigrant from Colombia is in the
1:35country about a year and a half leading
1:37fairly sheltered life is you know I've
1:40learned uh so she goes missing on um no
1:44November 14th 1989 and her body is found
1:47naked from the waist down three days
1:49later uh Peak kill is a small City in
1:52Westchester County population of
1:54approximately 25,000 people murders are
1:57pretty rare So it creates this
1:59atmosphere fear rumor paranoia you know
2:02parents were concerned with their own
2:04safety safety of their children you know
2:06parents were driving their kids right to
2:08school picking them up after school I
2:11mean you know Town Hall meetings were
2:12held periodically various uh safety tips
2:15and investigatory progress were were
2:18held all right so this girl goes missing
2:21how do the police like come to you what
2:24how do you get on the radar screen of
2:26the local police department the police
2:29interviewed many students from the high
2:30school and because I never really quite
2:33fit in at the high school I was quiet I
2:35was to myself I was a little bit younger
2:37than the rest of the kids so some of
2:39them told the police hey you might want
2:41to talk they might want to talk to me
2:43and so that's how I got on their radar I
2:46was also a sensitive teenager this was
2:48my first brush with death and I had an
2:50emotional reaction and the police
2:52thought that considering I barely knew
2:53the victim that my being emotional was
2:56some sort of outward sign that I was
2:59felt sorry for what I did and a last
3:01thing a reinforcing factor is they got a
3:03psychological profile from the NYPD
3:05which purported to have the
3:08characteristics of the actual
3:09perpetrator and I had The Misfortune of
3:11matching those characteristics so a type
3:13of reinforcing Factor well I got a
3:15million questions about what you just
3:17said I mean so they come to talk to you
3:19I mean did they come to you at school
3:21did the police come to your school or
3:22your house they intercepted me on my way
3:25to school I actually lived adjacent to
3:27the high school there was only really
3:29two way to get to the high school from
3:31where I lived and one of them I would
3:33have had to really go out of my way to
3:34take so it wasn't hard for them to
3:36figure out what route I I took so they
3:39intercepted me adjacent to the high
3:41school on my way there and then do they
3:43take you to the police station or where
3:44do you go they took me to the police
3:46station and are your parents aware of
3:49any of this at the time no so they take
3:52you to the police station and what
3:54happens there they start asking me
3:56questions about about her murder they
3:58show me color photo RS and they're you
4:01know questioning me like like a suspect
4:03very uh very aggressively and eventually
4:05when I wanted to leave then they they
4:08changed things up I think somewhere in
4:10the course of them questioning me they
4:12somehow learned that my thinking at the
4:15time was that you know when I grew up I
4:17wanted to be a cop so they somehow
4:19learned that and when I wanted to get
4:21away from them they they switched up
4:23talking to me as a suspect to instead
4:25you know Jeff is this junior detective
4:27helper they would say things like well
4:29the kids won't talk freely around us but
4:31they will around you let us know if you
4:33hear anything stop in from time to time
4:35they would ask me opinion questions and
4:37congratulate me that my opinion was
4:39correct they did the good cop bad cop
4:41routine and my father was never involved
4:44in my life so I began to look up to the
4:47cop who was pretending to be a friend I
4:49began to look up to him as like a a
4:51father figure so do you have this first
4:54interaction do you get released do you
4:55get to go I do so I have inter
4:58continuous interaction with the police
5:00over the course uh of six weeks all
5:03right and so what's what's happening
5:04during those six weeks they're they're
5:07bringing you back to the station or what
5:08continuing to question you both but you
5:10know sometimes they would call me
5:11directly or sometimes they'd use a they
5:13they use a friend to call me to say hey
5:16the police want to talk to you so they
5:19would reach out to me and I and I would
5:20meet up with them uh mostly at the at
5:23the police station and again they would
5:24question me as a suspect and when they
5:26push too hard and I'd want to get away
5:28from them then they would switch up and
5:31go back to this Jeff as a junior
5:33detective helper so during this six-
5:35week period about how many times did you
5:37approximate you you talked to the police
5:40that they came and talked to you between
5:4210 to 12 approximately oh my goodness
5:45and so and you're doing all this
5:48voluntarily I am you're 16-year-old kid
5:50who who is a 16-year old kid going to
5:52high school you talked earlier about
5:54getting emotional when in this process
5:57did you get emotional they held four SS
6:00of the Wake for the victim and many many
6:02people in big skill went to all four and
6:05some went to three and I went I attended
6:07to three and got emotional at those
6:09Services I did yes and there was a and
6:12there was a funeral service yeah I mean
6:13that was awake and then there was a
6:14funeral service so yes I was emotional
6:16at all of them but at the same time I
6:18just want to quickly point out that so
6:20was everybody else it wasn't that
6:22unusual in the context believe me I'm an
6:25easy crier if you told me right now your
6:27cat died I probably would tear up um you
6:29know so that means nothing to me what
6:32happens along the way what changes
6:36because ultimately you get arrested
6:39correct correct why do you get arrested
6:42because they told me at the end they
6:44said listen we want we have some new
6:46information in the file we want to share
6:47that with you and you have but you have
6:49to take and pass the polygraph first and
6:52so the next day rather than go to the
6:54high school I I went to the police
6:56station where I thought the test would
6:57happen and instead they drove me from
7:00Peak sco which is in Westchester County
7:02they drove me 40 minutes away by car
7:04across county lines to town of Brewster
7:08in putam County so I could be
7:10polygraphed the polygrapher um Daniel
7:13Stevens he was a putham County Sheriff's
7:15investigator but he was dressed like a
7:17civilian he never identified himself as
7:19law enforcement he never Read Me My
7:21Rights um they I I I didn't have I
7:25didn't get anything to eat the time I
7:26was there I didn't have a lawyer present
7:29they gave me a four-page brochure which
7:31explained how the polygraph worked but I
7:33didn't understand it because it had a
7:34lot of big words in it but I figured
7:36well I'm there to help the police so
7:38what does it matter let's just get on
7:40with it from there they he put me in a
7:43small room he gave me countless cups of
7:46coffee to get me nervous and then he
7:48attached me to the polygraph machine and
7:50then he launched into his third degree
7:52tactics so he invaded my personal space
7:55he raised his voice at me he kept asking
7:57me the same questions over and over
7:59again and as each hour passed by my fear
8:02increased in proportion to the time uh
8:05he kept that up for 6 and a half to S
8:07hours towards the end he said what do
8:10you mean you didn't do it you just told
8:12me through the test that you did we just
8:14want you to verbally confirm it and then
8:17the cop who was pretending to be my
8:18friend he answered the room and he said
8:20look the the other officers are going to
8:22harm you you know um I've been holding
8:24them off uh I can't do so any longer you
8:27got to help yourself look just tell them
8:29what they want to hear you could go home
8:31afterwards uh you're not going to be
8:33rested so being young naive frightened
8:3516 years old I wasn't thinking about the
8:37longterm I was just concerned my safety
8:39in the moment the fact that I didn't
8:41know where I was and nowh else did
8:43either it Loom quite large in my mind
8:45and there was the push pull Dynamic you
8:47know the possibility of harm and then
8:49this false life preserver so I made up a
8:52story based on the information they gave
8:54me in the course of the interrogation by
8:57the time it was said and done I
8:58collapsed in the fetal position position
8:59crying
9:00uncontrollably um the interrogation was
9:03not videotaped there was no audio tape
9:05no sign confession just the cops word
9:07for it obviously I was arrested I was
9:10charged with a murder and rape it's the
9:13most unimaginable
9:16nightmare possible it sounds like
9:18something that's like scripted from a TV
9:19show like like this is actually really
9:22your life so you basically falsely
9:25confess to the murder of this classmate
9:27of yours is that right that's right
9:30and
9:30so oh my gosh in case you get arrested
9:33it proceeds to a criminal trial yes and
9:37this confession is it introduced against
9:38you yes and you're convicted yes but I
9:42would like to just put a little bit more
9:44color to it that's all correct but I a
9:46couple things I want to mention so
9:48before the trial the DNA test result
9:50comes in from the FBI lab which shows
9:52that seminal fluid found and the victim
9:54doesn't match me before your trial yes
9:57before the trial yes DNA there's DNA
9:59found on the victim that doesn't match
10:00you yes and that doesn't make your
10:04charge go away no my lawyer attempted to
10:07use it to dismiss the indictment uh but
10:10what but uh the judge didn't Grant the
10:11motion the prosecutor's answer to that
10:14he got the medical examiner to commit
10:16fraud so six months after doing the
10:19autopsy uh hundreds of autopsies later
10:21once the DNA doesn't match me he then
10:23said try to follow this now Andy this is
10:26this is a doozy even for someone as
10:28seasoned as you uh he says that he
10:31remembers that he forgot to document
10:35medical evidence which he claimed showed
10:38that the victim had been promiscuous
10:41which is what opened the door for the
10:42prosecutor to argue that that that she
10:45must she was sleeping around that she
10:47must have slept with somebody else prior
10:48to my murdering and raping her and that
10:50was how the DNA didn't match me and yet
10:53I was still guilty holy [ __ ] I mean and
10:58then he took it a step further further
11:00and he said he mentioned another youth
11:02by name that he claimed had this
11:04encounter with the victim but he never
11:06called him as a witness he never uh got
11:09a DNA sample he never set any kind of
11:11factual Foundation he just made the
11:13unsupported argument to the jury you
11:15know let's pause here at this point
11:18there's nothing linking you to this
11:20crime correct correct there's no
11:23forensic evidence right right there's no
11:25Witnesses placing you near this woman
11:27right right there's just simply this
11:31this so-called air quote confession that
11:34was extracted from you in the way you
11:36just described that's it that's it it's
11:38hard it's hard for me to even ask these
11:40questions you know it's emotional when I
11:41saw you at crime con a couple weeks ago
11:44I mean I was emotional and I gave you a
11:45hug after seeing you there uh and
11:47hearing your story so you have this
11:50trial now and you get convicted you're
11:54are you still are you 16 years old at
11:56this point no I'm no I'm seven I turned
11:5817 shortly before the trial all right
12:00you're 17 you get convicted of the I
12:03mean what were you thinking of trial
12:05before before the you know is this a
12:07jury trial or a bench trial jury trial
12:10so before the jury comes back you know
12:12you're going to have a trial are you
12:13still thinking like you know I'm gonna
12:16make this go away I'm good this is bogus
12:18I got nothing to worry about like what's
12:20going through your head during the kind
12:22of trial process I thought I was going
12:25to be uh found not guilty because I was
12:27innocent and you know that belief in the
12:30system was buttressed by you know some
12:33members of my extended family you know
12:35just telling me you don't have anything
12:36to worry about and they all believed in
12:38the system and at some point I adopted
12:41that
12:41belief and the case goes through a whole
12:44trial you're sitting there the jury says
12:46we've got a verdict and as a trial
12:48lawyer this always gives me a pit in my
12:49stomach in a civil case where the stakes
12:52are nothing you know it's not a criminal
12:54case I get a pit in my stomach from that
12:56you hear the jury comes back with a
12:58verdict you see the jury walk in now
13:01what are you thinking you still feeling
13:03good for half a second but see I
13:05remembered a saying from the county jail
13:07where where the other inmates told me
13:09when the jury comes back in try to make
13:11eye contact with them if they look at
13:13you and smile that means that they found
13:16you not guilty but if they look away or
13:18they're like stone cold then that means
13:20they've convicted you so I looked over
13:22at them and they wouldn't make eye
13:24contact with me I remember that but then
13:26I thought well well wait a minute though
13:28that that that can't be right I guess
13:30you know the the inmates really don't
13:31know what they're they're talking about
13:33you know and they read off the the the
13:35clerk starts reading off the charges and
13:38suddenly I hear guilty guilty guilty oh
13:43God what's going through your mind at
13:44that point how do you react to that I
13:46couldn't believe what I was hearing I'm
13:48like well well wait a minute that that
13:49that can't be right did I did did I miss
13:52the word not you know and and then once
13:55once it was clear that I did not miss
13:57the word not I mean I I was like kind of
14:00like in a stunned disbelief I mean I
14:02didn't I my head was spinning and I I
14:04didn't know what the hell was going to
14:05happen next do you literally then when
14:07that happens do you get taken out of
14:09court and handcuffed right then is that
14:10like is it yes you go right to jail
14:13right from there yes and how long had
14:15you spent in jail awaiting your trial
14:19about 30 to 35 days and then I my mother
14:21was dating a man that owned the that was
14:23a businessman and and he he put up the
14:25$50,000 bail so I got bailed out after
14:28about 35 days so you are convicted
14:32you're 17 after conviction you actually
14:35then obviously go to prison what kind of
14:36a facility do you go to do you go to any
14:38kind of a juvenile facility no I went to
14:41a men's Maximum Security Prison I mean I
14:43had been charged as an adult tried as an
14:45adult and I was you know given the 15 a
14:47life sentence here you are a sensitive
14:50quiet kid trying to fit in high school
14:52like you talked about a little awkward
14:54maybe just try to find your way and now
14:57you're charged and con
14:59first of all they get you to confess to
15:01a murder that you didn't commit you have
15:03a trial you're convicted and now you're
15:05going to a federal well not a federal a
15:08a men's maximum security adult prison at
15:1317 how in the world do you even cope
15:18with that a number of things I mean I
15:20think belief in God was one thing
15:22another thing was I I just told myself
15:24look I just have to hold on for like a
15:26year or two until the next appeal which
15:29sure I'm going to win because I'm
15:30innocent and I still believed in the
15:32system that was one thing another thing
15:34is I used to go to law library and
15:35learned the law and that gave a sense of
15:37comfort I used to read articles about
15:39other people who were exonerated and I
15:41and I use that as uh inspiration I did
15:45things to not waste my time so I took
15:47advantage of some of the limited
15:48educational opportunities in in prison
15:50GED and learned to type and got the
15:53associates and a year towards the
15:54Bachelors I took other trades you know
15:57um I used to read nonfic books from 1998
16:01to 2006 I read three or four non-fiction
16:03books a week so I did all of those
16:06things oh my goodness
16:08so describe a little bit for what prison
16:11life was like for a 17-year-old 18-y old
16:1419-year-old what you saw you know
16:18violence treatment like what tell me a
16:20little bit about the prison experience
16:22describe what you went through and what
16:24you witnessed so there were three or
16:27four stabbings are C every day there was
16:30violence that did not involve weapons
16:32there was gang activity so cely there
16:34was a general environment of of uh
16:37violence and adrenaline that permeated
16:38the air there was a lot of verbal abuse
16:41from the guards towards the prisoners uh
16:43the food was terrible I mean sometimes
16:45it was burned other times it wasn't uh
16:48it wasn't fully cooked the medical care
16:50was was was terrible it seemed like
16:52their answer to everything was to just
16:53give over-the-counter
16:55medication I would describe it all as a
16:57Non-Stop obstacle course featuring the
16:59guard civilians and other prisoners as
17:02obstacles to the main goal which was to
17:03overturn overturn the conviction and
17:05regain your freedom well I want to
17:07qualify this right now I mean you know
17:09we're doing a podcast it's it this is
17:11like a a millisecond of your life what
17:14we're doing right now and we could
17:15probably spend hours just talking about
17:18prison conditions violence treatment all
17:21that so I I don't want you to think
17:23we're minimizing any of this because I
17:25feel you I feel what you're saying and I
17:27hear you and I I I understand what
17:30you're saying and how absolutely
17:32horrific that is so you go into this
17:35adult Maximum Security Prison at
17:4017 okay how uh you there you're there
17:44for a couple years you're there did you
17:46think you'd be there for five years no
17:49so you're there for five years you hit
17:50the fiveyear mark now what are you
17:51thinking I'm thinking well the the
17:53federal habius Corpus petition is next I
17:56it's got to hold on for another couple
17:58years do you hit the 10year mark I do at
18:02that point I I have uh there's um I'm
18:04trying to go to the federal court of
18:06appeals now so you hit the 10-year Mark
18:08you're still kind of trying to hang in
18:10there with some federal court stuff can
18:12you believe you've been in there 10
18:13years you're now 27 years old no I can't
18:17I I can't but I want to add that for the
18:19two federal court proceedings I had
18:23additional confidence that I didn't have
18:25before because that was the one time
18:26where I had a private lawyer so
18:28different people had come into my
18:30mother's Social Circle and everybody
18:31contributed a manageable amount so I had
18:33a private lawyer at that point and I
18:35thought that that was going to make the
18:37difference that they were going to pay
18:38attention to the issues just a little
18:39bit more carefully so I was I was kind
18:42of Riding High On That did you have a
18:45public defender at your criminal trial I
18:47did God bless public defender it's a
18:49hard job but but there's a great
18:51documentary called Gideon Army you might
18:53have seen it these public defenders have
18:55like you know a thousand cases I mean
18:57they just they just do not have the time
18:58and resources to devote to each case
19:01like a private attorney does um do you
19:03hit the 15-year Mark I do but after the
19:0711year mark my appeals are over and so
19:09at that point the only way back in a
19:11court when your appeals are over is if
19:13there's either a retroactive change in
19:15the law or if you find some new evidence
19:17that wasn't known before that probably
19:19would have led to a different outcome so
19:22my legal work at that point will put air
19:24quotes on that I I was writing letters
19:26to nonprofit organizations that free
19:29wrongfully convicted people I was
19:30writing large law firms small law firms
19:33I was writing people that could help me
19:35indirectly you know my my I wrote
19:37letters for four years and then as I hit
19:40the 15-year Mark uh I'm I'm you know I
19:42look at parole as a potential means of
19:44regaining my freedom except that uh
19:48because I maintained my innocence uh and
19:51and rather than expressing remorse and
19:52taking responsibility I got denied
19:54parole and they told me to appear back
19:57in front of them in years now at this
19:59point I think I'm going to die in prison
20:01at year 11 you're basically out of legal
20:04options and you're thinking at that
20:06point like I'm screwed right I'm just
20:09gonna be here unless I've come up with
20:10some hail Mary well well unless I come
20:12up with some ha unless I come up with
20:14some new evidence that come up with that
20:15Hail Mary which you had not in 11 years
20:18so I mean I would think as every year
20:20goes by your your hopes get a little
20:23smaller your dreams get a little smaller
20:25you knowre your enthusiasm gets a little
20:27smaller so you've now been you got
20:30arrested at
20:3116 you've now been in for
20:3516 and how does the Hail Mary get
20:39completed tell us about that and how
20:42that played out one of the letters I
20:44wrote in care a to a book author and car
20:46a publishing company was sent by the
20:49publishing company to an investigator
20:51rather than the author the investigator
20:54connected me to the Innocence Project
20:55she lobbied them to take the case she
20:57got other respected legal entities to do
20:59so uh then I got lucky that one of the
21:02intake workers represents my case
21:04several times after they initially said
21:06no so getting then I got their legal
21:09representation so that was step one the
21:11Innocence Project in New York and step
21:13step two was that the district the the
21:16district attorney of Wester Janine Piro
21:19um who was not the da when I was
21:20convicted but became the da before the
21:22first appeal was decided she had blocked
21:24all seven of my appeals she she blocked
21:26me from getting DNA testing she fought
21:28my appeals BL do you getting DNA testing
21:31yes the DNA data they opposed that they
21:33did the DNA Data Bank had been created
21:35and so I wanted the further testing and
21:37in an effort my God in an effort to try
21:40to identify but she she blocked that so
21:42she left office and the third key is we
21:45got lucky that the actual perpetrator's
21:47DNA was in the data bank because left
21:49free while I was doing time for his
21:51crime he killed a second victim three
21:54and a half years uh later after killing
21:56the victim in my case he subsequently
21:58confessed to the crime so my conviction
22:01was overturned with the consent of the
22:02da that was September 20th 2006 I went
22:06back to court November 2nd 2006 all
22:09charges were dismissed on actual
22:10innocence grounds and he was
22:12subsequently arrested and convicted of
22:13the crime I got goosebumps if you could
22:15see the hair of my arms right now I want
22:17to tell you something again
22:21congratulations thank God you got the
22:25DNA I I just cannot believe
22:29um your story so you served 16 years and
22:33then you got exonerated by DNA they
22:35found the real killer and you are 100%
22:38innocent so I want to go back and tell a
22:40little more I want to I want to continue
22:42your story and I want to go back and ask
22:43a few questions about false confessions
22:45so you get you when you get exonerated
22:48you are now how old
22:5032 so you're 32 years old you've been in
22:53prison from 16 to
22:5532 now you get released uh now what what
22:59do you what do you do when you get out
23:01how are you feeling and what's your plan
23:03yeah I was released at 32 and I felt
23:05like I was 17 because that's the last
23:07year that I was uh free so well look I
23:10really didn't have a plan um you know I
23:13I uh I I suffer from all the typical
23:14After Effects you know there's the
23:16psychological you know PTSD panic attack
23:18anxiety a feeling of having been frozen
23:20in time feeling of processing things a
23:23slower speed fear on seeeing law
23:24enforcement there's a social stigma you
23:27were in prison for 16 years wrongfully
23:29yes but you were there for 16 years so
23:32how much had that rubbed off on you is
23:33it safe to be alone someplace technology
23:36had passed me by GPS cell phones
23:38internet hadn't been created it was
23:40awkward when I'd meet up with my
23:42extended family because I knew who they
23:44were intellectually from when I was
23:45younger but I didn't have any I I had
23:48hadn't had any contact with them and the
23:50few that I did have it was extremely
23:52sportic with many many years in between
23:54visits so that was that was awkward I I
23:57was always passed over over for gainful
23:59employment so I lacked stability of
24:00housing at one point I came within a
24:02couple of weeks of going to uh homeless
24:05shelter and and it was lonely uh now
24:10that was on the difficult side on the
24:12positive side I started speaking I I
24:14became a weekly columnist um I started
24:17meeting with elected officials and I was
24:18trading privacy for awareness you know
24:21doing doing media and ultimately New
24:23Media interviews so the a Dean at Mercy
24:28College uh had lined up a scholarship
24:30for me to finish the bachelor's degree
24:32so I got the I finished the bachelor's
24:34at Mercy College I tried to get into law
24:37school but didn't so I instead went to
24:39grad school I got a master's degree in
24:40criminal justice from John J College of
24:43Criminal Justice um I after five years I
24:45got I got some financial
24:47compensation and I use that to start my
24:50nonprofit um Jeffrey desck foundation
24:52for justice which you know we freed 13
24:54people at this point from 2011 to now
24:56and helped pass Six laws and at some
24:59point I got tired of sitting in the
25:00front row of the courtroom I I went so I
25:03went to law I went to go to law school
25:05and I got in this time and uh became I
25:08became an attorney and you know I had my
25:10first success back in December that
25:13rolls off your tongue so so quickly I
25:16mean you just dropped a some huge
25:17Bombshells there you started a nonprofit
25:21and that's unbelievable did I get this
25:23right you freed 13 people you got that
25:27right yes you are an angel that was sent
25:30down here to Earth you're doing God's
25:32work it's
25:33unbelievable you started a nonprofit you
25:36freed 13 people you passed six laws you
25:39said yes on what kinds of topics so we
25:43we passed the country's first uh over
25:45independent oversight board for
25:46prosecutors it's called the commission
25:48on prosecutor conduct uh we actually we
25:50had it we passed that several times uh
25:52we passed Discovery reform so New York
25:55went from being one of the worst states
25:56in the country in terms of Discovery to
25:59um one of one of the best U we passed an
26:01expungement bill in in uh in in
26:04Pennsylvania there was a different Bill
26:06we had a hand in passing called less is
26:08more which in involves it people were
26:11being returned to prison sometimes for
26:13one or two years for technical parole
26:15violations whereas now they can't be
26:17returned uh for that only for a couple
26:19of things and for a limited amount of
26:21time so I want to point out that the
26:22challenging rful convictions Act was
26:24passed in New York we're waiting for
26:26governor hok will to sign it and that
26:27would provide Council for indent
26:29defendant and would require courts to
26:31consider evidence of innocence in cases
26:33even where people have uh pled guilty
26:35and then you went to law school and you
26:38got your law degree yes and you've been
26:41a lawyer a practicing lawyer now for how
26:42long three years and you for three years
26:45and you still have your not for-profit
26:46right of course I only take cases from
26:48that I I only take cases from my
26:50nonprofit I just represent innocent
26:52people primarily on the exonerated of
26:54end and then when people are exonerated
26:56then you know I help them get
26:57compensation often you know partner with
26:59law firms so I feel like your case uh I
27:03know a lot of people know your case but
27:05I feel like most people probably don't I
27:08feel like you Jeff deskovic should be
27:12the spokesperson the face of the false
27:17confession wrongful conviction issue I
27:19mean I should should it literally should
27:21be be you talking and educating people
27:25because people tell me all the time you
27:26know I've got I've had cases you know
27:28like my starrock murder's case Chester
27:30weager OH he confessed people have a
27:33hard time understanding and wrapping
27:37their head around the concept of a false
27:39confession and I think your case is
27:42probably the best one to teach and
27:43educate people because you know we know
27:47100% it's a DNA xeneration we know that
27:49you are 100% innocent and we also know
27:52that you falsely confessed right and so
27:55what do you say to people who would say
27:57oh I would never falsely confess or How
27:59could somebody falsely confess how do
28:01you how do you explain it and what's the
28:04what's your kind of quick response to
28:07trying to educate people about the
28:09concept yeah is that I would say that
28:12false confessions have caused wrongful
28:13convictions in 29% of the DNA proven
28:16wrongful convictions and that while
28:18adults have falsely confessed
28:20particularly vulnerable populations are
28:22people with mental health issues and and
28:24youth which I was a youth and I would
28:25also say until you're actually in the
28:27interrogation room yourself you really
28:29don't understand the type of pressure
28:31that you're put under or just you know
28:33the psych you know the the psychological
28:36principles that that are built into the
28:38the read technique which is the primary
28:39interrogation method used in in the US
28:43you know shame on all those people that
28:44were involved in your conviction I mean
28:46it had to be so apparent that you're
28:48this 16-year-old kid who had nothing to
28:49do with this crime there's nothing
28:51linking you to the case and why are they
28:53trying so hard you know if you're trying
28:54so hard uh do you really think you got
28:56anything of value you know there's no
28:59forensics there's there's there's no
29:01Witnesses there's nothing it's just so
29:04scary it's just it really scares the
29:07hell out of me to think that that can
29:09happen to somebody and I just think your
29:12case you should be everywhere you walk
29:15down the street everybody should
29:16recognize your face I mean I feel like
29:18you your story needs to be told climb to
29:21the top of Mount Everest with a
29:23megaphone scream it out loud everybody
29:25needs to know your story because it's so
29:28powerful and it's so horrifying but you
29:31are so articulate and can explain it and
29:34describe it and and I mean I can tell
29:37from the way you are now you were at 16
29:39I'm sure you were also smart and
29:41articulate and all those things then uh
29:43and it still happened to you you know I
29:45want to try to help part of the reason I
29:47want to have you on this podcast is I
29:48wanted to raise awareness of who you are
29:51what you went through the work you're
29:53doing now um tell me a little bit about
29:57how people people can find you your
30:00foundation if people have if there's
30:02anybody listening who wants to reach out
30:04to you or they've got a case they want
30:05to refer to you how do they get in touch
30:08with you sure so first of all you can go
30:11to the website www.es ofic that's D kov
30:15i.org there's a web form that you can
30:18email me through uh I'm also on social
30:20media I'm on uh you know fa Facebook and
30:22the foundation's on Facebook and
30:24Instagram and you know I'm on I'm on
30:26LinkedIn you know so I do get messages
30:29there I do answer I do answer people uh
30:32in terms of people listening I mean you
30:34know I I would love to I'd love to get
30:36the story out there more you know I have
30:37a book that's 98% written I need a
30:39literary agent I'd love for the book to
30:41do really well have have a have a movie
30:43and you know have it come out in other
30:45art forms whether you know they have a a
30:48play a musical a oneman show I think all
30:50those things are are are are are
30:53possible but I just I need the right
30:54person to step in and open that door so
30:56maybe somebody listening here 100% it is
30:59going to happen I there's no doubt of my
31:01mind about it there's no doubt in my
31:02mind about it I saw you so for people
31:05that don't know crime con there's
31:07actually something called crime con yes
31:08indeed probably a lot of our listeners
31:10know because they're True Crime fans
31:11it's a true crime convention every year
31:14with various speakers and topics Jeff
31:16was there Jeff told his story on stage
31:19and that's that's when I I literally I
31:21cried I I I got emotional because I also
31:24saw this short film tell me the name of
31:27the film tell tell me when it was made
31:28tell me where people can see it and then
31:30tell me about the feature documentary
31:32that's coming out so the film was called
31:34conviction it was produced and directed
31:36by geia workz it's available on on
31:39Amazon Prime it was made approximately
31:41two or three years ago it's gotten into
31:4417 um film festivals it's won four
31:46Awards and it's a short so meaning it's
31:4921 minutes and it's about my life post
31:53exoneration and secondarily uh about
31:55some of my advocacy work the feature
31:58film is they're finished shooting it
32:00already it's in h post- production just
32:02finishing up a few things there but uh
32:05it's that's going to be an hour and a
32:06half and so uh that's going to be get
32:09more into like the legalistic side of
32:11things it's going to be about my case
32:12and I'll have other people in involved
32:14and other people's voices will will be
32:17in it uh I have seen it it's incredible
32:20I I love the short I I dare say the
32:23fulllength uh documentary which is an
32:25hour and a half is three or four times
32:27better than that so I'm cautiously
32:29optimistic that it will draw people in
32:31and we do get into uh false confessions
32:34there as well well I saw the short in at
32:37crime Con in Orlando two weeks ago and
32:38the short blew me away all right the
32:40short if you're saying the feature one
32:42is three or four times better I can't
32:44even imagine because I watched the short
32:47and just you talking those scenes of you
32:49in the car driving telling your story
32:52walking through the arrest walking
32:54through the interrogation walking
32:55through the conviction prison life it
32:58just hit me like like a gut punch so
33:02hard it was so emotional I think it's
33:05great that you did that film and I think
33:07it's great you got the feature because
33:09it's a more powerful way to tell your
33:10story than somebody reading an article
33:12you read an article about your case all
33:14right it's it doesn't hit you you got to
33:16see it you got to hear it you got to
33:18feel it and you being on the screen and
33:21being a smart and articulate I mean the
33:23way you were answering questions I got
33:25to tell you you are one of the most
33:27impressive persons I've ever met I
33:30seriously mean that really uh you are
33:33amazing remarkable person I'm so proud
33:35of everything you've accomplished I
33:37can't wait to see this feature Dock and
33:40I can't wait to just follow your journey
33:41and the work you're doing having already
33:43freed 13 people in a weird way I feel
33:46like you know uh you'd never want to go
33:48through what you went again but you have
33:50turned it into this incredible life now
33:53an incredible experience and the good
33:55you are doing holy cow I just can't say
33:58enough about you Jeff deskovic it just
34:01it's just amazing and I really
34:03appreciate you coming on this podcast to
34:05tell your story and I look forward to
34:07staying in touch and continuing
34:10following your journey thank you thank
34:12you very much for having me you know I
34:14I'll quickly add as we as we get ready
34:16to wrap this up that you know I do look
34:18at what I went through you know as um
34:21you know if I didn't go through that I
34:23wouldn't be doing the work that that I
34:25that that I do now I do believe this is
34:27this is why I'm I'm in the world and you
34:29know I'm not an angry or bitter person I
34:31want to enjoy my life as much as I can
34:33and I can't do that if I'm you know
34:35angry or bitter you know I feel like
34:36I've lost so much as is you know why
34:38would I want to in effect lose the rest
34:40of my life and be maybe less nobly if I
34:44was angry or bitter it's not like I'd be
34:45impacting any of the people involved so
34:47I guess my best revenge is living my
34:49best life and you know the vehicle that
34:51allows me to actualize that as I take
34:54that energy I feel and I Channel into
34:58the the advocacy work I do it you know
35:01it's cathartic it's healing you know it
35:03it uh it makes a difference it enables
35:05me to allow my suffering account for
35:07something so I do it um you know from
35:11working on legislation in New York
35:13pertaining to false confession so one of
35:15the bills is uh the police are currently
35:17mandated to record custodial
35:19interrogations but there's unfortunately
35:21exceptions for uh homicides sex offenses
35:24and drug cases we want to get rid of
35:26those there's the youth interrogation
35:28act which would recognize which would
35:31give 16 and 17 year olds a non-waivable
35:34right to council so you would have to
35:35have a lawyer before a kid that age or
35:37younger uh the lawyer would explain to
35:40the the youth what their rights being so
35:42that they really could make a decision
35:44informed decision of whether they want
35:45to wave their rights or not I mean I I
35:47didn't understand my rights Andy you
35:48know and every time they said anything
35:50you said can and will be used against
35:52you in a court of law you're 16 years
35:54old you're a high school kid what do you
35:55know exactly my mind would go to my go
35:58my mind would go to what I saw on TV and
36:00different civil court contexts and i' be
36:02thinking about court what are you
36:03talking about we're not going to court
36:05uh this there's a police deception bill
36:07which would ban the police from using
36:09deception and interrogation recognizing
36:11that that's inherently coercive uh
36:13Pennsylvania a border state to New York
36:16um you know there there's been a couple
36:17of bills introduced we're cautiously
36:19optimistic that they're going to pass
36:20the session have been at that with my
36:22colleagues from Pennsylvania could
36:23happen to you from the last three years
36:26but PA is one of 12 States that does not
36:28compensate uh people uh exonorees so
36:31we're working on that and you know
36:32raising awareness in California about
36:34the problem of prosecutor misconduct so
36:37from policy to public education to
36:40working on freeing people you know and
36:42then even just trying to expand out my
36:44Foundation I mean we have 13 Active
36:46cases but you know there's another five
36:48that are approved but waiting and we
36:50need to raise F you know more funds so
36:52that we can have additional lawyers
36:54investigators other essential Personnel
36:56to help us move those we're already
36:58stretched as is with 13 but listen you
37:01know we do have a crowdfunding page on
37:03the website called patreon which is for
37:04people willing to be recurring donors
37:06and you know what if 25,000 people were
37:09willing to sacrifice $ three to5 dollar
37:11a month or some other amount they could
37:12afford but on a recurring basis that
37:14would give us close to a million dollars
37:16imagine look imagine what kind of good
37:18that we can that we that we could do so
37:20maybe some of the people are social
37:21influencers or otherwise have a
37:24following of one kind or another even
37:25word of mouth I mean it it all counts if
37:28we all do a little bit we could get a
37:29lot done well you are doing God's work
37:32Amen brother I'm so impressed and proud
37:34of you let's stay in touch love to have
37:37you on again talking about more of these
37:39issues and I look forward to continuing
37:41our conversation thank you same here
37:43thank you for having me
37:53Andy thanks for listening to this
37:55episode of wrongful convictions and old
37:57cases oh my gosh I'm still I'm still my
38:00head is still spinning from talking to
38:01Jeff deskovic it just it's just such a
38:04powerful emotional story stay tuned for
38:07more episodes of compelling True Crime
38:10cases also stay tuned star rock
38:13murderers haven't forgot about it all
38:14you people that have been following as
38:16soon as I have an update you'll be the
38:18first to know I'm hoping to have some
38:19big updates by the end of the year and
38:21you'll be the first to know this show
38:23was produced in collaboration with
38:25Phineas Ellis and Studio friends
38:28design content and production by Bell
38:30and Ivy I'm your host Andy hail we'll
38:33see you next time

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