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WoW Forever Roundtable w/ @jessecox & @Preachgaming — Transcript

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0:00We'll drive up and get you and then
0:01we'll just do this live in Florida.
0:03>> Oh, sick. I never even thought of that.
0:05But yeah, I 100% should have done that.
0:07I was like, I'm not paying for a hotel,
0:09bro. Like, especially at this time.
0:12They're probably going to [ __ ] me on the
0:13price cuz it's an emergency.
0:15>> And I wanted to get home to my kids. I
0:17was like,
0:18>> hello chat. We are just hearing about
0:21the harrowing tales of Preach's flight
0:24delays.
0:24>> Atlanta.
0:26Atlanta. I like Atlanta
0:29corner. You went to the PFJ's corner.
0:31That place is cursed.
0:32>> The Dude, the the international terminal
0:35is great. They have really good
0:36restaurants. They've got like comfy
0:38couches. There's a the food court. They
0:40have a piano player.
0:43It's wonderful.
0:46I like again, if I have two hours in
0:48Atlanta, I could not be happier. Like
0:50that's fine. Two hours in Atlanta. I can
0:52chill. I can visit places. I can do all
0:55sorts of stuff. Yeah.
0:57>> Uh 5 hours while also already tired cuz
1:00I left Cali early and then I had a delay
1:02in California and that's another four
1:04five hours to get to Atlanta. Then
1:07another 5 hours.
1:09>> That's where the grumpies come in.
1:10That's where you start getting grumpy.
1:12>> Yeah. I almost got angry at somebody in
1:15uh London cuz they wouldn't let me out
1:17of the terminal.
1:18>> Like in Atlanta, you just have an exit.
1:20It's awesome. You can just go out. You
1:22can go do whatever you want. Nobody says
1:23anything. They don't care. You just cuz
1:25you're going to come back through
1:26security anyway. So they're not asked if
1:28you walk out of the terminal. Uh but in
1:30London they refuse to let you out unless
1:32you're distressed.
1:33>> Oh wow.
1:36>> I'm borderline distressed if I'm being
1:38honest.
1:39>> We uh uh
1:40>> we lost your camera feed by the way.
1:43>> Mine.
1:43>> Yep.
1:44>> Hey, you're knobs now. Oh, there you
1:45are.
1:45>> You're there you are. There you go.
1:47Don't know what that was but fixed. So
1:49Jesse is going to be a little late
1:51everybody. He said be there in 5, so I
1:53guess he's done early.
1:54>> Oh [ __ ] Okay. All right. We'll just
1:57>> What do we What do we grill Jesse about
1:59that? He's already spoken on. You don't
2:01You don't play Hairs of the Storm, do
2:02you, Mike?
2:03>> I Oh, I I'm saving it for the podcast. I
2:06don't I don't want your reaction now cuz
2:08I know you guys must have like [ __ ]
2:11>> Yeah, I've got a
2:13>> accurate. Yes.
2:15>> And when they announced it, I was like,
2:16"Oh, the boys are going to be so happy."
2:19Uh,
2:21I I Yeah, I will I will speak to it when
2:23we get there. I've got a slight rundown.
2:24Kyle, for your purposes, I know you like
2:26to show visuals during the podcast. I
2:28tried to just draw this up in the order
2:29of the opening.
2:30>> Perfect. Perfect.
2:32>> So, um, hot into Starcraft, into
2:34Overwatch, into Diablo, into
2:35Hearthstone, into Warcraft 3, into WoW
2:37Forever.
2:37>> Sending a drink.
2:38>> Yeah, we played uh we played bingo for
2:41all of Hearthstone or um Overwatch. So,
2:44yeah, I don't think we need to worry
2:44about that part too much.
2:46>> Yeah. No. And uh yeah, I know Jesse
2:48doesn't play and I know Mike doesn't
2:50play, so I don't think we're gonna speak
2:52much to Overwatch.
2:52>> Yeah, that'd be the secret, right? If
2:54Jesse shows up and he's like,
2:55>> "We are cockless." Yeah, someone took
2:57our Cox.
2:58>> I've been so into Overwatch, you guys.
3:00And we're like, "No way. Oh my god."
3:02Like rescheduled the show.
3:06>> I must stress, I cannot believe the
3:09somber rework.
3:11>> People seemed really happy with the um
3:13with the role playing table they did.
3:15Though I did glance the live chat. Woo.
3:18People just post tomatoes now. So that's
3:20new to me.
3:22>> Someone say tomatoes.
3:23>> Tomatoes. Yeah.
3:26>> Hello. Let me fix.
3:27>> We have our Cox.
3:31Our Cox has returned.
3:32>> What up boys?
3:34>> What up boy? In return. Mike is getting
3:37a drink cuz
3:39we saw your here in five message. So
3:42we're like oh [ __ ] All right. Let's
3:43just stall. We were hearing the
3:44harrowing live, you know. So, don't say
3:47all of the incriminating things you
3:48usually say when we're not live.
3:51>> Oh, you mean that I have not one, not
3:53two,
3:56>> but three drinks. The add kicked in this
3:58morning. I am
4:01prepped.
4:01>> Nice. Nice. Well, it did.
4:03>> Um,
4:04>> just let us know when it's time for you
4:06to go to the
4:06>> You got to run. You know, you just go
4:08for it.
4:10>> Oh, no. It'll be at the the least
4:12appropriate time. I'll be like out doing
4:15something and like, oh no.
4:17>> It want if you want to make it super
4:19inappropriate, you just bring the mic in
4:20the bathroom with you and then, you
4:22know.
4:22>> No,
4:24no,
4:25>> no,
4:26>> no. We don't need that Austin Powers
4:28scene where I'm like, "Oh, yeah.
4:30>> Okay. I'm more I'm more of a naked gun
4:32kind of guy, but I get you." Yeah.
4:34>> Yeah. It's happened more than once,
4:36which is weird.
4:38The
4:38>> You know what? bodily functions are
4:40hilarious. That's just a fact. Everyone
4:42knows the
4:42>> GG boys are pros at stalling. Yes. Yeah.
4:44Sometimes we use our powers for good.
4:46>> Exactly.
4:47>> That's not true.
4:48>> We What we do? We do all the time. We
4:50have a We have an official FF7 start
4:52date. You know, how many people can say
4:55that?
4:55>> What What day is that? Hold on. What day
4:56is that?
4:57>> It's September 30th.
5:00>> So, come come by.
5:01>> It's right around the corner.
5:02>> In fact, we'll even mod you cuz Lord
5:04knows we'll need help banning people.
5:06>> I don't uh No,
5:08>> no. Well, we're going to give Jesse Cox
5:09a sword. That's what we're going to do.
5:11We're going to knight you. I mean,
5:12>> what? Um,
5:13>> just for power tripping.
5:13>> What version are you playing?
5:15>> The original.
5:18>> Playing this.
5:19>> Playing this right here.
5:21>> Oh, good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's
5:22fine. Love it.
5:24>> Still sealed. It's got that holographic
5:25[ __ ] tape on the on the on the top.
5:27Haven't even opened this damn thing.
5:29>> Oh, see that's great. I can't wait for
5:30the internet to get upset about that.
5:32Um,
5:33>> it's our greatest hits copy.
5:36>> You're right. You're right. It's not
5:37black spine.
5:37>> No, the uh the the
5:40they did like a re-release and while
5:43it's graphically better,
5:46the backgrounds are like painted, right?
5:49But in a way that isn't like it is
5:51impossible to tell depth in the new
5:54version.
5:56Like your character, you'll be like, is
5:58that a place I can go or is that? So
6:02yeah, the new versions are not great.
6:06Ah,
6:08>> so you're correct.
6:09>> You're be old and gray by then. You're
6:11not You're going to be old and gray in
6:12two weeks.
6:14>> What are we talking about, Chad? How do
6:16you age?
6:17>> The clock is ticking. You know,
6:18>> time is time is an illusion.
6:22>> Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We've all
6:24already lived this moment. We just
6:26perceive time.
6:28>> Yeah. Time per is an illusion.
6:32>> Time is an illusion.
6:34Kyle, what are you setting up? Well, oh,
6:37this is this is the, you know, the video
6:38in between, you know, so we can all we
6:40can all be here should visuals because
6:42this one's just so busy, you know. We
6:43all we all react and we all have our
6:44faces.
6:46>> Oh, gotcha.
6:46>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
6:48>> Oh, I was Oh, I was I was confused. I
6:50was seeing preaches.
6:51>> Oh, yeah. We can tell Preach about the
6:52the new OBS feature.
6:54>> Oh, preach. Do you know about this? Do
6:56you know how to set a scene in your OBS
6:58so that you can stream, but also we can
7:00get a clean camera feed from you? Uh
7:05Nobody knows. Uh I mean it should just
7:08pick up your camera, right? Like if I
7:12>> Hold on. Let me Let me
7:14>> It's the gear next to virtual cam.
7:17>> The gear. Uhhuh.
7:19>> And then you can choose what goes as an
7:21output and still keep your stream
7:23exactly how you want it.
7:25>> So you just set it to a camera scene
7:26that has nothing on it but your camera.
7:30All right.
7:30>> And then bam, baby.
7:34Hold
7:35>> British. Thanks for the tier one. I
7:36appreciate you
7:37>> holding.
7:41>> You're live, Michael. Yeah, he knows
7:44he's knows what he's doing. Hey all set,
7:48dude.
7:49>> Easy work for me, dudes.
7:51>> All right. Wonderful.
7:53>> So, I'm gonna start recording.
7:57And bye, George. I think we can do
8:00something akin to an intro.
8:02>> No way. No way.
8:03>> No way. Uh, aren't we supposed to do
8:06this later?
8:06>> Yeah. Don't make this
8:09weird. Yeah. Don't make this weird. We
8:11got a system working now.
8:12>> Don't Don't make it. We'll do it at the
8:14next Blizzcon, which according to
8:16Slasher is 2 years away.
8:19>> Wait, Slasher.
8:20>> Said that, huh?
8:21>> Yeah. Yeah.
8:22>> Okay.
8:23>> Did you see that? Mike Moheim tweeted,
8:25"F you, Slasher." cuz I laughed so hard
8:30seeing that
8:30>> getting that off his chest after all
8:32these years.
8:34>> Surely that was sudden private more. But
8:38>> that's amazing.
8:39>> As someone who who who got his start
8:42covering Starcraft 2. Oh boy, that that
8:45gave me warm fuzzies seeing that. That
8:47that made me feel a certain way. Uh but
8:51welcome everybody listen in. It's uh
8:53it's another one of these damn roundts.
8:55this time for Blizzcon 2026.
8:58I'm here, Kyle's here, and joining us as
9:01is typical for one of these is Jesse Cox
9:04and Preach. Thanks for coming back,
9:06boys.
9:06>> Hello.
9:08>> Jesse's computer program.
9:10>> It's true. And please,
9:14>> I'm so impressed you're here.
9:18>> I'm on a computer that is that was made
9:20in 2017 AND IT'S STILL CHUGGING ALONG.
9:24So these new fangle computers trash.
9:27Stick with the classics. Get yourself a
9:30gateway is what I say.
9:31>> Yours broke though. What are you talking
9:32about? You're advertising your broken
9:34ass [ __ ] PC.
9:35>> No, I'm advertising my 2017 computer.
9:38It's great.
9:39>> What What is that running on like a 3000
9:40series card?
9:41>> Uh, it's a I have no It's a Falcon
9:44Northwest. I have no idea. I couldn't
9:46tell you what's in this thing.
9:47>> Did you go free like some Skittles or
9:49something?
9:50>> No, I've had it. This used to be the
9:52computer I used way back when. And then
9:54I was like, well, I'm going to get a new
9:56computer and I'll just put this in
9:57storage just in case. And just in case
10:00happened. And here we are.
10:02>> So, I can't play anything. I can't play
10:04anything new, but like, you know, I
10:07could play some old stuff.
10:08>> Lucky for you,
10:11>> you play Final.
10:12>> You could have just come to the
10:13convention.
10:14>> You could have just come. IT'S AROUND
10:15THE CORNER.
10:16>> YEAH, I would have still had a computer
10:18probably.
10:21Man, that's that that's freaking
10:22incredible. Well, uh, thank you for
10:24joining us, no matter how jank your PC
10:27build may currently be. We appreciate
10:30you.
10:30>> My pleasure.
10:32>> Uh, so the only one of us that actually
10:34went uh is the only person here who
10:37doesn't live in the United States.
10:38>> Woohoo. That's kind of messed up.
10:41>> It is. It's kind of messed up. Jesse
10:43could walk to Blizzcon, too. Like the
10:44amount of zero fs given by Jesse
10:48>> is truly
10:50>> there.
10:51>> This week I went to Irvine twice. So
10:52like I really could have. And everyone
10:55was like, "Were you at Blisscon?" I was
10:56like, "Nope." I watched it though.
10:58>> They were like, "Oh,
11:00>> okay."
11:02>> Yeah. I'd love to thank everybody who
11:04asked if I was there over the weekend.
11:06It It definitely didn't make any
11:08additional FOMO.
11:10>> I SEE. I SEE. LOOK, WE SAW YOUR PHOTOS
11:12PREACH of you in your ivory tower
11:14looking down on the peasants.
11:16>> Oh my look at THEM IN LINE. THEY HAVE TO
11:19WAIT TO GO IN. OH, we saw those photos.
11:22>> Ironically, I nearly cried. Like, it was
11:25wild. That that whole sequence of events
11:28was one of the most epic moments of my
11:30entire life. Like, not only did people
11:33recognize me, there was like 50 people
11:34on that balcony and I was like, I
11:36haven't done WoW stuff in a while. So, I
11:38was like, "Hey, you know, it's not going
11:39to be as big as it, you know, it used to
11:40be when I went here." Uh, and they they
11:42like started shouting me, which was
11:45sick. Uh, and I was like, "Oh, shit."
11:47Like, "How did you recognize me?" I must
11:48have had a diet dick on my head or
11:49something. Uh,
11:51>> that's usually how Yeah,
11:53>> that was record.
11:54>> But later on, they started chanting
11:56preach and I was like nearly crying. I
11:58was like, "Holy fuck." Like, "This is
12:00wild." Because it hadn't started yet.
12:01And it was like, "Oh, yeah. That p that
12:03see that picture is no that don't post
12:06that picture like
12:08>> Kyle you should post such an opportunity
12:10with all of the minions TO BE LIKE
12:13>> TO WAR YOU COULD HAVE DONE A WHOLE bit I
12:16was waiting for it
12:17>> I was taking you didn't mobilize them
12:20>> no and also it was so hot I felt so bad
12:23for it was so hot and it was
12:25>> for war it's
12:26>> quart to 7 8 in quart to 7:45 a.m. And
12:30it was so hot outside. I felt so bad for
12:33everybody.
12:33>> I saw that line. Where were you when you
12:35took that picture or made that video?
12:39>> That was outside my hotel, which was not
12:42next to the venue. Like it was close. Uh
12:44it was like just past the the Hilton.
12:46But that queue the the problem was the
12:49previous one 3 years ago, they never
12:51organized the length of that queue and
12:54people were stood in people's gardens.
12:55like it stretched all the way to the
12:56housing actual housing area and people
12:58were just like using people's trash cans
13:00for their drinks and
13:01>> wow
13:02>> it spread around all the streets so they
13:04made a full snake.
13:05>> That's the weird thing about Anaheim.
13:07Like if you've never been uh the where
13:09the convention center is is also where
13:11Disney is and there's just a bunch of
13:13old small California homes for miles
13:17around it. It like and it's very close
13:19to Disney, very close to the convention
13:21center. So, if you just like go one
13:22block over, you're just going you're
13:24just in someone's backyard.
13:25>> Mhm. Yeah. It was it was bad. It was it
13:28was uh not a thing that they did wanted
13:31to do again. But they built a cage. So,
13:33I kept getting texts from people who
13:34were outside who were like, "We've just
13:36got into the cage
13:37>> cuz they put a fence up, like a cage
13:40fence to separate the lines." So, people
13:42were straight stuck in the cage. So, I
13:45got pictures of people like gripping
13:46onto the cage like they couldn't get out
13:48and then asking me to save them a seat.
13:51I was like, "Are you out of your mind?
13:52How is that going to work at all in any
13:55way?"
13:56>> This is an every person for themselves
13:58kind of convention. Like, no, no, no.
14:00There's no seat saving.
14:01>> Particularly the opening ceremony. You
14:04just you just got to do what you can do.
14:06Uh, and yeah, and FanFest is like that,
14:09too. And and so is the concert at the
14:11end of FanFest. But it is what it
14:13freaking is. Uh, I think this is a a
14:15beautiful chat message to kind of tee us
14:18up for today. Cali wrote, "I went to the
14:20WAD and Diablo Immortal Blizzcons. I am
14:23immune to Blizzype."
14:25I don't think this was one of those. I
14:27think I I I don't think you're immune to
14:29Blizz Hype. There was nothing hype about
14:30those Blizzcons. You just went to not
14:33hype Blizzcons.
14:34>> It It does. That's why I wasn't going to
14:36this one. Like Blizzard was a little
14:38pushy about me going to which we
14:40suspected something big was coming
14:41because I was like you're not going to
14:43they asked you know they asked it it's
14:45like h it's a long way to go to not hear
14:47about WoW stuff which is my main
14:49interest cuz they weren't going to show
14:51Last Titan
14:52>> cuz Midnight's not finished.
14:53>> So I was like what is this even going to
14:55be?
14:55>> It's going to be one of those that's
14:57focused on Overwatch and you know Diablo
14:59and things like that. So I was like no.
15:02And they were like you should really
15:03come. I was like no. They're like, "No,
15:05you should really come to this one." I
15:08was like, "Huh, okay. Yeah, we'll go."
15:13And uh yeah, it turned out to be for a
15:15good reason. So, I was really happy that
15:16they were a bit pushy about going.
15:20>> Well, shall we just tackle it in the
15:21order of the opening ceremony cuz there
15:23was uh all kinds of stuff.
15:27Don't worry, we'll skip Overwatch cuz no
15:29one here cares.
15:33I
15:34I just have one critique of Blizzard.
15:37>> Oh,
15:38>> and I I need them. Well, technically
15:40two,
15:41>> but one very specific one.
15:45>> Please. You showed us great examples uh
15:48later on in the opening ceremony of
15:51human beings who talk like human beings
15:54and present like human beings. BUT I
15:56EVEN ON SCREEN RIGHT NOW THIS WHOLE like
15:59we
15:59>> I love you
16:00>> are so happy to welcome you all to
16:05Blizzcon. IT'S LIKE WHY ARE YOU TALKING
16:07LIKE THAT?
16:09>> STOP IT.
16:11>> I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO do this. Oh
16:14>> she said I love you. I was like welcome
16:16to Costco. I love you. It was like so
16:19bizarre. She just went I love you. And
16:22we were like what what is happening
16:24right now?
16:25Like the first five minutes I was like,
16:28if this is the entire show, I'm I'm out.
16:31Like, I can't I can't do this.
16:32Thankfully, it wasn't, but like to start
16:35us with the most E3 presentation I've
16:38ever seen. I was like, come on, y'all.
16:42We need hype. We need like from moment
16:45one TO BE LIKE, "LET'S GO." AND IT WAS,
16:47>> OKAY,
16:48>> WELCOME.
16:48>> Two two counter points.
16:50>> Blizzcon.
16:51voice.
16:53>> It got better as it went. She was
16:55nervous, it seems, and that energy
16:58started to flow and I think she started
17:00relating with the audience. In big
17:02counterpoint, she announced Heroes of
17:04the Storm content.
17:06YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT, MY MAN.
17:07>> HOLD ON, HOLD ON, HOLD ON. WE'RE NOT
17:09TALKING ABOUT ANNOUNCEMENTS. We're
17:11talking about presentations.
17:12>> Okay. Okay. But I will talking about it
17:15because I forgive the stilted dull
17:18nature of the I forgive everything. You
17:20just don't love heroes enough to
17:21>> because Johanna announced new hots
17:24>> later like in this presentation there
17:27was the moment I think it was Diablo
17:28where it was three pe maybe it was
17:30Overwatch I don't know but it's like
17:31three people and then one of them was I
17:33think the lore girl and she was killing
17:35it. She was great. Uh, when the Heroes
17:37of the Storm guys or not heroes, um,
17:39Hearthstone guys showed up, the two of
17:42them were super goofy and silly and
17:44funny and great. Holly gets up there,
17:47kills it. Like, there are people who can
17:49do it. And then there are people here
17:51like
17:52>> he could have found literally anyone
17:54else who was like just going to bring
17:56their own humanity to it instead of a
17:59>> forgive Joanna because she's the CEO and
18:01she doesn't do public speaking. So she's
18:03that's her presentation style cuz she
18:04presents to shareholders, right? That's
18:06her job. That's how she talks in public
18:08and when she's on the show.
18:09>> Then she shouldn't have been first. Uh
18:12but she doesn't do anything else. Uh I I
18:14forgave that one, but it was weird. The
18:16the three guys who were just
18:20like, you know, I I need to describe to
18:22you the problem which started to happen
18:24to me. So the media section was two rows
18:27blocks back and to the right. About 20%
18:31of the way through the opening ceremony,
18:33I notice that the two rows in front of
18:37me are staring at me like leap like
18:41this.
18:43And I'm like, "What the [ __ ] is going on
18:44here?" Cuz I didn't recognize anybody.
18:45But they were turned and staring at me.
18:47And I could see it in the corner of my
18:49eye. And I'm like, "What is what is
18:50going on?" And it turns out
18:51>> You're beloved.
18:53>> No, it turns out that directly here was
18:56a football pitchiz teleprompter.
19:00that was doing everything including what
19:03they were about to announce.
19:05>> So you could wait
19:06>> for them to eventually reach or you
19:09could turn say oh they're about to
19:12announce the new Starcraft cuz it says
19:13it in giant letters here and then get
19:16your phone out and be ready for the
19:18crowd reaction shots. So all the media
19:21people were just looking at the
19:22teleprompter and it had word for word.
19:25It was like wait for applause
19:28now continue. It had everything on it
19:30whatsoever that they had to say like
19:32full scripted and dialed in and I
19:34understood why they were like reading
19:35and anytime somebody tried to do
19:37something a bit off the cuff and it
19:39[ __ ] the whole thing up like the other
19:40person got tripped up
19:42>> and and didn't know what to I can't
19:43remember if that was Diablo or something
19:45like that but somebody tried to make a
19:46little joke and it wasn't on the script
19:48and it was like shambled for the next 10
19:50seconds like where were we? I forgot
19:52it's not on the teleprompter.
19:54Little PR training needed. Little bit
19:56little bit of PR training needed. That
19:58kind of stuff can be tough too cuz like
20:00if if they don't have feeds of each
20:01other like it can just be hard to hear
20:02each other. So improving can be just
20:05legitimately difficult.
20:07>> Yep. 100%.
20:09>> 100%. But you're right. When the WOW
20:10team came out it was like oh thank god.
20:12Like Holly and so good at what they do.
20:14>> Yeah. Yeah. IT WAS LIKE OH YES THIS IS
20:17WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING Again I
20:18understand Blizzcon is not just for
20:21fans. It's also for like investors and
20:23the people who are interested in the
20:24ind. Like I get it, but there's
20:28something about going to an event that
20:30it feels like the people on stage are
20:32excited to be there. Even if they are,
20:35they need to emote that in some way so
20:37we feel it. Otherwise, it's like
20:41okay, you know,
20:43>> well, we're used to like Moheim's
20:44nervous energy, which was infectious.
20:47>> Yeah. Talking in front of people, but
20:48he's like, "This shit's really good,
20:49though."
20:50>> Yeah. Moheim always felt just super
20:52sincere. It it it it felt like
20:54legitimately like he didn't want to be
20:56on the stage but felt a duty to to be
20:59there.
21:00>> Um which I did I think some of the folks
21:03were a little more awkward presenting
21:05kind of brought that like I don't know I
21:07kind of I kind of like it cuz we don't
21:09get stuff like this anymore. Jeff
21:11Keelley has just sucked in like a black
21:14hole any mistakes or flubs or lack of
21:19constant advertising in games
21:21announcements. I miss E3 so bad. Warts
21:25and all. Particularly warts and all. I
21:27like it when it's a little offbeat, when
21:29it's a little off color, when it's a
21:30little imperfect. And so I kind of
21:32enjoyed the
21:33>> That's the guys the guys who have on the
21:34screen right now who are the
21:36Hearthstone. That's what I was talking
21:37about the Hearthstone guys. They had
21:39that kind of like nervous, goofy energy
21:42that felt honest and real. They It
21:44wasn't like the best presentation, but
21:46it felt like two dudes who loved what
21:48they do and were having fun up there,
21:51even if sometimes the jokes didn't land
21:53or they had like a, you know, a little
21:55nervous energy to them. I was like,
21:57"Yeah, this is this is a good
21:59presentation." All right. I don't give a
22:01damn about Hearthstone, but I was like
22:03watch these guys talk about it.
22:05>> Chat's saying they need to hire they
22:06need to hire a hype person. No, they do
22:08not. They tried that. They had they
22:10they've had comedians in the past try
22:12and host this and it was like the
22:14cringiest, most aggressively hostile
22:17>> Yeah.
22:18>> [ __ ] you've ever seen in your life.
22:20Like before we use the word LAR for
22:22anything, we had multiple years in a row
22:24of absolute impostors on Blizzcon
22:27stages.
22:28>> Who was just want nerds up there? Just
22:30want nerds who love what they do. That's
22:32all.
22:32>> Who was the systems like engineer during
22:35the WoW Forever panel? She did
22:37incredible.
22:38>> She was really nervous. Great.
22:40>> Oh, she was the legend. Anna Ramirez, I
22:43think she's called. I might be wrong on
22:44that, but she was the lady. Everyone
22:46fell in love with her.
22:48>> Uh, no, she did Wow. She's the Wow
22:50Forever engineer. Uh,
22:53>> but she was like legend was told of her.
22:55Anna Rosendez, uh, is what she was
22:57called. But she was she became myth and
23:00legend cuz she was super nervous, but
23:02she was like, "This shit's really cool
23:03and we're going to be realmless. Yeah,
23:05like we've figured it out and we know.
23:07Yeah, the WoW team on a whole is on a
23:09different level a little bit. Like they
23:11need but they're also so old school at
23:13it, you know? Like Ian's done what, like
23:15[ __ ] 25 Blizzcons or something. Like
23:18I it to to bring it back around to kind
23:20of the nervousness. It's like I just saw
23:22tons of names and faces I don't
23:25recognize in including with games that I
23:27have covered for a long time like
23:29Hearthstone. Like I'm like I don't know
23:31any of these devs. Like none of these
23:33are familiar faces, even though I
23:34thought they did good, but I think
23:35there's a lot of new blood and the and a
23:36lot of the Warcraft devs, even if
23:38they're like from that kind of second
23:40wave of what we might consider newer
23:41Warcraft devs, if you've been playing
23:42the game since vanilla, they've still
23:45been at Blizzard a long time.
23:46>> That's that's
23:48>> Yeah. And she was great. Yeah, you're
23:50absolutely right. Here's the thing that
23:51I think is really noticeable and I think
23:54it is necessary for things like this,
23:57right? when we talk about uh the old
24:00days of Blizzcon, right? You had, you
24:03know, Broad and Kaplan and Metson and
24:07you had like these names, these people
24:09would come out and they would be the
24:11face of that thing, right? And um you
24:15know that's when you go to FanFest Final
24:17Fantasy 14, you have names of different
24:19like oh that's that guy. We all know
24:21that guy. Currently Blizzard except for
24:24Holly like really doesn't have that. And
24:27they need to I don't know what the
24:29process would be to find the voice or
24:32the person who is that for each one of
24:35these franchises, but they should do
24:37that. They should really take the time
24:39to be like, put them in vlogs, put them
24:41in this, get them out there, constantly
24:43put them in front of the audience so
24:45when they get up on stage, they have
24:47that like, we love you. AND THAT HELPS
24:49THEM FEEL A LITTLE BIT better about
24:50themselves. Yeah, they I think they I
24:52think they blasted us with a lot of
24:54personalities and I found myself every
24:56single person came out I go who I I I
24:58don't know that but by the end
25:01>> they would always come out with their
25:02credentials. I think they did a very
25:03conscious choice and purposefully Metson
25:06wasn't there whether whether or not you
25:09know for his own purposes I think there
25:11was a very conscious choice to say meet
25:13the new WOW team don't rely on Metson.
25:16>> Yeah.
25:16>> Oh yeah. I I don't think Chris, as far
25:18as I understand it, Chris doesn't want
25:20to do any of that stuff. It was part of
25:21his thing of coming back is he doesn't
25:22want to do the media stuff. He just
25:24wants to work on Warcraft. That's
25:25>> He talked about that in a couple
25:26interviews.
25:27>> Yeah, exactly. He doesn't want to do
25:28that. But you remember this is takes
25:29time as well. Like I was lucky enough to
25:31do one of the first ever interviews with
25:33Holly um when I visited. She'd only been
25:36doing the job for like two two three
25:37months, I think.
25:38>> Uh and nobody gave a [ __ ] I remember
25:40that video got like no views because
25:42people were like, "Who the [ __ ] is Holly
25:43Longdale?" You know what I mean? It
25:44takes time to get there and this is
25:46their introduction. So hopefully they
25:48will appear in more media like
25:49especially the WoW team now cuz there's
25:51three different WoW teams like you know
25:53all these people are all doing different
25:55things. We know like Ian and Holly and
25:57now we've got Clay now we got Anna like
25:59these people are making names themselves
26:01but most of the old heads are all still
26:03doing retail like Paul and Morgan.
26:04They're also
26:05>> Yeah.
26:06to what you were saying, Jesse, too, to
26:08like get more people out there like
26:10select them. The the ones that we
26:12remember, you know, from the the earlier
26:14years of Blizzcon and these these
26:16household names like you said, Broden,
26:18so forth. As far as I understand, all of
26:20that was just kind of on them. They
26:21weren't forced to do it. They weren't
26:22asked to do it. They just kind of
26:24>> Yeah.
26:25>> became that person,
26:27>> whether whether it's stepping up or
26:28volunteering. Like I love the idea of
26:32they have so much social media presence
26:35and so much damn money. Like I don't
26:37know why they can't craft
26:40uh more personalities. You know what I
26:42mean? like having it's so obvious like
26:45it's so obvious when you see fans
26:47respond to oh that's the person that
26:50know even if they don't even if they're
26:51just like the director of whatever and
26:54they operate like them representing it
26:58have it goes a long way it's it's nice
27:01to associate someone with a product that
27:03is like oh yeah we trust that person
27:06>> rather than here are people you don't
27:08know and it you're right it does take
27:09time Holly took time years but came out
27:13this time and people were like, "Oh
27:15shit." So
27:16>> Mhm.
27:17>> invest in it now.
27:19>> I think so.
27:20>> Yeah. Yeah, but the presentation didn't
27:22do them any favors is the problem with
27:23saying here is it like you you had like
27:26a h
27:28you know response to what they were
27:29doing and that doesn't help cuz you got
27:32like when they do a good like Anna I'd
27:33never heard of Anna before but now we
27:35all know Anna cuz she had that energy
27:36and she was enthusiastic and I didn't
27:38get that
27:39>> from a few of the people during the
27:40opening ceremony like they were showing
27:42really cool [ __ ] as well which sucks you
27:44know they announced like Diablo I were
27:46doing all this stuff and people were
27:48like those guys are kind of awkward I
27:50know uh It's that was the problem I
27:52think that what we're saying is like it
27:54didn't you need to come out with a bang
27:55like Jesse was saying at the start is
27:56like come out and give me that energy
27:58and that'll feed into the response of
28:00what you're getting uh when they're
28:01announcing
28:02>> stuff like it if you if you are posting
28:05a video for Starcraft or Diablo like
28:07even the hots thing
28:08>> I don't know if we have that footage but
28:10the leadin to the hots video I didn't
28:13feel was like the hypest of leadins
28:16she was like we also have HEROES OF THE
28:18STORM AND THEN IT JUST PLAYED
28:20What she what did she say? She said I
28:22said we're not doing Blizzcon unless we
28:23have info on this game is what she said.
28:26And I was like, "Oh, it's going to be
28:27the Starcraft announcement." Yeah, it
28:29was cool. And then it was Heroes of the
28:30Storm and Sorry, boys. But I was like,
28:31"Oh,
28:31>> no. Well, but Oh, yeah. That's that's
28:34the problem. That's the problem with
28:36Blizzcon is it is all these small
28:37microcosms having to come together to
28:39watch each other's [ __ ] that they really
28:41don't care about."
28:43>> Yeah. Like a little bit
28:44>> the four of us today, none of us care
28:46about Overwatch. I don't think we're
28:47going to spend a lot of time talking
28:48about Hearthstone, even though I have a
28:50history with that game. I
28:51>> Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. I
28:53care about the technology Overwatch is
28:55crafting and the formation of butts. I
28:58feel like they've really been spent a
29:00lot of time.
29:02>> They've like really crafted some world
29:05class asses. And I just feel like [ __ ]
29:08enough credit.
29:12>> They they've had amazing asses at Jump.
29:15Like, we need WE NEED STILL DO
29:17>> brave new direction in incredible
29:19>> consistent. How often are games like
29:22even years later the quality of ass is
29:25so high and that's the Blizzard
29:28guarantee.
29:28>> That's true.
29:30>> Overwatch didn't have one of the
29:32quickest turnarounds to porn of any
29:33video game ever like live action. I'm
29:36not talking about anime alpha. In the
29:38alpha they had porn.
29:40>> THAT'S CRAZY.
29:42>> THAT'S HUGE.
29:43Near instant.
29:45Near near freaking instant.
29:48>> Not just silly anime stuff, like full on
29:50costumes, the whole business. Like
29:52nailed it.
29:52>> It was hard to find graphics if you were
29:55doing anything for Overwatch. It was
29:57like legitimately it just
30:00stuff came up before. Yeah. Yeah. For
30:03over Overwatch for
30:05>> for a short time. What has this podcast
30:06become? The truth.
30:08>> The truth. The truth.
30:09>> This podcast has become the truth. this.
30:12>> You know, this [ __ ] isn't sponsored by
30:13Blizzard.
30:15>> You know, there's a reason you keep
30:17buying Overwatch skins, and it's not
30:19because you think it'll make you play
30:21better. We all know THE TRUTH. JUST
30:24ACCEPT IT.
30:25>> You're just excited for what it's going
30:26to do to the entertainment you watch in
30:28private. That's what you're excited
30:29about.
30:29>> Say about us that none of us are
30:30interested, though. Just a bunch of
30:32dudes not playing where the good
30:34>> That's called getting old. That's just
30:35called looking at ass toes.
30:38>> Despite what we're preaching, it's not
30:40happening. No, but it was a it okay as a
30:44Heroes the Storm fan, it didn't matter.
30:47She said the words in the Nexus and it
30:49was a commitment to no matter how small,
30:52no matter how little a game may feel,
30:55Blizzard's coming back to support those
30:58properties. And when something went by
30:59in a blink of an eye later, like better
31:02Warcraft 3 graphics,
31:04>> you just kind of went like, "Wait, is
31:05that is that not something you're going
31:07to talk about?" Uh, sure, it's an
31:08embarrassment. Those updated, outsourced
31:10graphics were awful after you got over
31:12the initial shock of the high value
31:16stitches, but it just wasn't a good
31:18product reforged. And they just blew
31:20right by that. They they announced a new
31:22campaign. It had a nice little tie-in to
31:24the undead paladin. But those highdefin
31:28original looks are great.
31:33>> Do you guys all think it was Warcraft 4?
31:35Cuz we did. Uh, no. God, they're never
31:38gonna make Warcraft 4. No, it's never
31:40gonna happen.
31:42>> Although I did I did the campaign. I
31:44watched some people play it.
31:46>> It's pretty cool.
31:47>> Yeah,
31:48>> cool touches.
31:50>> Yeah, I I I bought it. I haven't played
31:51it yet, but I'm going to. Um, but I
31:53immediately I was like, I like this. I
31:55want to support this. Uh, I really like
31:57this kind of micro trend that's
31:59happening with making new content for
32:01wildly old games. Looking at you,
32:02Witcher.
32:03>> I think that's really cool. And that's
32:05why I want to bring it back to hots, not
32:07just because of my my fanboy soul.
32:10>> I know.
32:13>> I think it set the tone. I think it set
32:15the I do. I know you're jo. I think it
32:17set the tone for the whole Blizzcon
32:19because like the biggest announcements,
32:21the thing like cuz like mostly for for
32:23me, I've noticed like in my corner of
32:25the internet, the the vibes are good.
32:27The vibes are up. people are are are
32:29talking about this BlizzCon and talking
32:30about Blizzard in a way that I have not
32:32personally seen in like close to a
32:35decade. And I'm including kind of where
32:38Kyle and I are now as content creators.
32:40We have a pretty Blizzard hostile
32:42audience. We do a lot of Final Fantasy
32:4414. A lot of people who play that game
32:46[ __ ] hate Blizzard.
32:48>> I've noticed.
32:49>> Yeah. And and even in our corner of the
32:51internet, it's fairly positive. Um, and
32:54I think Heroes of the Storm being the
32:56first announcement
32:58>> set the tone for we're gonna not forget
33:01about our older stuff. We're going to
33:04make new things for our older beloved
33:06titles and for the final mic drop moment
33:09of this entire opening ceremony to be
33:12wow forever. Like I I think it made this
33:15full arc that they had a through line to
33:17what they were announcing. And it's
33:18that, hey, you remember when we were
33:20kind of famous for like never letting
33:22any of our [ __ ] die on the vine? We're
33:24going to kind of return to that.
33:26>> So, do you think, and this, you know,
33:28this comes from all of us here, the the
33:32rapidly aging millennials, um,
33:35>> Yep.
33:36Do you think and and I again I don't
33:38know what Jenz or Jen Alpha thinks about
33:40this but I am curious that I I saw the
33:43image that was going around social media
33:45where it was the Warcraft Forever logo
33:46but it said Warcraft retirement home for
33:48millennials uh as like and that I wonder
33:52if this Blizzcon the reason why it's
33:55talked about so favorably with a lot of
33:57people who are are millennials is
34:00because it's like yeah
34:03this is what I want simply other times
34:06like it it very much HIT ME LIKE OH THEY
34:09ACTUALLY OKAY YES THEY'RE doing things I
34:12want to play but is it just cuz I'm old
34:14as dirt on the internet how does someone
34:16who's 19 feel about all this do they
34:18even care I don't know
34:21>> I think that go ahead Mike
34:24>> I I I I I know where Jesse's coming from
34:26because during the opening ceremony my
34:27brother uh text me and he just said I
34:31feel like they're announcing this for me
34:32and my brother is 20 years older than I
34:34am like this feels like it's for me.
34:36Like everything they're announcing is
34:38for me. But at the same time, and I
34:40hated this as much as people were trying
34:42to be nice, I was surrounded by zoomers
34:45who were like, "You inspired me when I
34:47was in middle school." I was like,
34:48"That's not nice." Like it, you think
34:50it's nice, but that's not nice. And that
34:52happened hundreds of times over
34:53Blizzcon. But they are very excited to
34:57go and try it uh and to jump in with
35:00everybody else. Like, but this is it's
35:02hard to gauge a Blizzcon live audience.
35:04These are already the niche of the niche
35:05of the niche who are into it, but their
35:08age didn't seem to matter. Like there
35:09was something one of them one person
35:11said to me is like the idea of WoW
35:13classic just put me off cuz I started in
35:15like Legion or I started post there
35:17where it was already zooies and then
35:18they tried Wow Classic and it was like
35:20this is boomer [ __ ] leaving alone but
35:23like it's not modernized but like the
35:26idea that they're not I think classic
35:28was also offputting to a lot of people
35:30even if they loved WoW because of the
35:32ego that came with classic cuz the
35:34knowers [ __ ] knowers
35:36>> and that's not there now. Now we're kind
35:39of starting a little fresh. Uh, and
35:40therefore they can jump in at the same
35:42time. So I think that's been the most
35:43appealing thing for the younger audience
35:45is like I don't have to deal with some
35:47[ __ ] who's been farming knacks on a
35:49private server for 20 [ __ ] years
35:51trying to educate me on my potion usage,
35:54right? Or losing his [ __ ] cuz I didn't
35:56get nine world buffs before we went to
35:57do molten core. So I think that's poss
36:00possibly going to be a big inn for
36:02people. Yeah,
36:05>> I think may maybe I mean anyone you talk
36:07to Blizzcon's going to like Blizzard
36:08stuff. So I mean there's there's that as
36:10well. But
36:11>> they're also probably kids of Blizzard
36:12fans, you know what I mean? Like they're
36:13the children of Blizzard fans.
36:15>> I mean most of our most of our friends
36:17who were younger who who play World of
36:19Warcraft or other Blizzard games, that's
36:20the case for them.
36:21>> I think there was also like a a required
36:24reverence for every previous
36:25announcement because it was all you were
36:26going to get. And so you would sit there
36:28and you'd heavily critique every little
36:30thing that came out of it because you
36:32better like it or else. And like when
36:35Zelatas started floating towards a door,
36:38>> I didn't care with like complete
36:40freedom. It didn't matter to me.
36:44>> Dude, you've no idea. I spoke to the
36:47Midnight team after the opening ceremony
36:49and no one they announced some cool [ __ ]
36:52for Midnight. They did. It's got like
36:54the Eclipse is coming. They've got this
36:56new game mode that's coming. There's
36:58like loads of work. And nobody gave a
37:00[ __ ] And I felt so [ __ ] bad for them
37:02while I was talking to them because
37:03everybody was talking about Wow Forever.
37:05They're like,
37:06>> "Yeah, the Forever team's doing really
37:08well."
37:08>> Oh, no. I was like, my heart bleeds cuz
37:12these guys have like we've been working
37:13for [ __ ] months on some really cool
37:15[ __ ] for people and nobody cares at all
37:18in any way. It's crazy to me that my
37:21only level of caring with the new sort
37:23of like the live content is realizing,
37:26at least in the conversations I've had
37:28with people about lore, that they're
37:29rapidly wrapping up plot points. And to
37:32me, I'm like, "Oh, thank God. That means
37:34we don't ever have to worry about any of
37:36the other story ever again. Yes, let's
37:38move on from whatever this was. Please
37:41continue wrapping things up." Like, I'm
37:44fine. So, when they were like, "Oh,
37:45we're doing forever." I was like, "Wait,
37:47I don't have to care about any of it."
37:50Yes, I will play your game. Like, that's
37:54what I want. I don't I I could care not
37:57like watching this cinematic, I was
37:59like, they were like, "Finally, we'll
38:02find out what she wants or whatever the
38:04hell they said." And when it ended, I
38:06was like, "I still know nothing. What I
38:09just watched taught me nothing new."
38:11>> She's got the world soul dude.
38:12>> ALL RIGHT. THAT'S THE WORLD SOUL locker
38:14room. of the saga,
38:17>> right?
38:17>> The world soul saga. It's about that
38:19ball.
38:20>> It's already been the vague direction
38:22just showing her in front of it. It's
38:23not There's nothing. Yeah. Yeah. I
38:26>> was shaking the message. She the world
38:28reached out to Anduin and Tal had to go
38:31game.
38:32>> Yeah. Like, all right, cool. I'm still
38:33still waiting for that to pay off.
38:36Rolling and doing it and they were like,
38:37"Well, that's never actually
38:39>> Every time we do one of these and our
38:41disinterest in in in WoW's current story
38:45comes up, we always catch some heat in
38:46the comments." And I I just want to be
38:48clear, if you like it, hell yeah. Get
38:50down self,
38:53>> you know, picture like just like look at
38:55some Zelat toes, whatever whatever
38:57floats your floats your anti-hero. Um
39:01>> I like Zealot. I think she's one of the
39:02best builders.
39:03>> I think she's generally cool. I I think
39:05she's personally she's run a foul of
39:07like the same.
39:08>> She's sexy Skeletor. Let's be clear.
39:09She's sexy.
39:10>> [ __ ] yeah, dude. Skeletor was already
39:12sexy, so And then she leaves.
39:15>> And then she's like, "You beat me this
39:17time." Yeah. And then disappears.
39:19>> The same thing that like ruined Lilith
39:21for me. Like just like
39:24they they ruined all all the mystery and
39:26all the scariness. Like she's just
39:28another talking like
39:30>> she shouldn't got beat at the start of
39:31midnight. That was a that was an oof.
39:34Midnight should be dark, hence the name.
39:37>> Yeah, it need they needed to double
39:38down. If they double down on horror, I
39:40would have been a lot more interested.
39:42>> Like Blizzard doesn't really do
39:44overarching dark. They'll do like some
39:46messed up stories and zones every now
39:48and again, but they don't like their
39:50overarching narrative is never like and
39:52the heroes will lose. It's always you'll
39:54win, don't worry about it. It's all
39:56good. just keep playing. Which is Yeah,
39:58I thought Midnight was going to be
40:00you're going to get your ass kicked from
40:01start to finish. This is Empire Strikes
40:03Back, dog. You're losing. And the
40:05opening cinematic we won. And I'm like,
40:08what?
40:10>> Yeah, it's a
40:11>> But they blew up Khadgar. Everybody's
40:14middling maybe kind of interested in
40:16car. Well, they made you think that they
40:18killed Kegar, but if you had ever seen
40:20if you'd ever seen a narrative before,
40:22you would know that they didn't kill.
40:23>> I didn't believe it for a second. The
40:25difference is like I you hear me? I'm
40:27not afraid anymore. Like I wasn't
40:30>> upset and I didn't need Midnight to be
40:34the things that I wished upon it because
40:36I had these other hopes, these other
40:38dreams and ultimately they kind of got
40:39realized in the forever announcement.
40:42>> Yeah. But I will say this, what they did
40:44to Khadgar and putting him in a
40:46wheelchair has made cosplay if you're
40:48disabled at Blizzcon so easy. The
40:50Khadgars were rolling deep around
40:52Blizzcon. Yeah, there was so many people
40:56who were disabled just rolling deep as
40:58Khadgar. It was awesome.
40:59>> The phrase the phrase the Khadgars were
41:01rolling deep is my new favorite phrase.
41:04I
41:04>> tell you, dude, rolling deep.
41:06>> Yeah. And they were coming out of there
41:08like [ __ ] cars. Like just a like a
41:10street race. It was like Fast and
41:12Furious. I was like that is badass.
41:13>> Do they do one of the the meetups with
41:14like like where they do a big group?
41:16>> It wasn't like March of the Murlocs. Uh
41:18but they was just anybody who was in a
41:20wheelchair was a Kadgar. Like
41:23>> I love when they do those group group
41:24photo sessions and you're like why is
41:26there 300 Katgars or like I love those
41:29kind of things.
41:30>> I think there was over a thousand
41:32murlocs to the point they couldn't get
41:33them in the picture. So they had like a
41:35few hundred of them on the fountain, but
41:37behind the fountain, not in the picture,
41:39was just another five or six hundred
41:41murlocs that snaked into the building in
41:44the blazing heat.
41:45>> They were dying. Those dudes, they were
41:48dying. It was unaries and whatnot. Yeah.
41:51I know that's a hard that's a hard pass
41:53for me.
41:56>> Yeah, it it was a sweat fiesta out
41:58there. Like there's no way that was been
42:00one stinky line. And I don't it's not
42:01their fault. I'm not calling them stinky
42:03by any mean, but it was so goddamn hot.
42:06It took ages to do that picture.
42:08>> SoCal in September. What are you going
42:10to do?
42:11>> Um All right. So, uh
42:12>> can we go back to the Storm though?
42:14Like, uh they did say they're supporting
42:16it though, right? They're adding new
42:17characters, but they're not doing like
42:18new maps or anything that we know of.
42:20No, there's already another hero
42:21confirmed in the works going to be
42:23coming out in the near future. Uh I have
42:25read a ton of interviews with the new
42:28Hots team, which is some of the old Hots
42:31team apparently. They even did an
42:33interview with them on stage in between
42:35some of the esports events. Uh like I
42:37couldn't believe what I was seeing as as
42:38a fan.
42:39>> You got to give them some credit. rolled
42:40out in janitor uniforms with name tags
42:44like fully embracing the who's still
42:47working on this game in the basement
42:48energy that the community had been
42:50giving it for a while. Like what who's
42:51making these patches? And they they
42:53shrimped. They slouched. They were on
42:55their couches chilling.
42:59Yeah. Yeah. It
43:02>> it was really cool, man. Our last hero
43:04was almost six years ago. Hoger released
43:08in December of 2020. We have not had a
43:10new hero since we rapidly Kyle and I
43:14killed our our podcast which at the time
43:17was like how we were making rent.
43:21We shut down a fan site for Heroes of
43:23the Storm stats. Like it was a dark time
43:26which would have eventually led to us
43:28being like maybe we should give this
43:29YouTube thing a try. Uh and then Final
43:32Fantasy 14 and then like like that is we
43:34almost cried. Let's just put it that
43:36way. Kyle, I think you said you did get
43:38tearary in private after the whole thing
43:39was over because it was a tumultuous
43:41time for us. I I was like, "It's over.
43:43I'm never going to create content
43:44again." I went and got a masters. I was
43:46getting prepared to teach. I thought it
43:48was over. So to see New Heroes content,
43:51it lights my soul on fire in a way that
43:53I didn't know I was unironically capable
43:56of anymore. As someone who was been on
43:58the internet for this long,
44:00>> the floor area for Hots was still pretty
44:02quiet. Just putting that out there.
44:03There was a lot of uh you didn't need
44:06>> Yeah, because we have no hope. Why would
44:07we go to Blizzcon?
44:08>> No, fans didn't go to Blizzcon.
44:11>> Yeah, there was no hot supporters there.
44:13That's the reason.
44:15>> We're going to be the next Blisscon.
44:17>> Yeah, they're announcing nothing. The
44:19banner will be gone like Starcraft last
44:21time. Like, it's the bastard child. It's
44:23gone.
44:23>> Yeah, it it is. It is the bastard. I
44:26mean, it's the bastard child of Mobas
44:27and it's the bastard child of Blizzard
44:28Entertainment. Like, let's be let's be
44:29very clear. Um, but I was I was stoked.
44:33Um, apparently this team has been slowly
44:36reforming since 2022, like when it
44:38entered maintenance mode officially. Um,
44:41and like so the the new lead dev was one
44:43of the old devs that like kind of moved
44:46around in the during the tumultuous
44:48times, worked on a couple different
44:49Blizzard games, including Hearthstone,
44:51and
44:52ended up back on Heroes of the Storm.
44:55And it sounds like Blizzard kind of let
44:58him and the team go in whatever
45:00direction they kind of wanted.
45:03>> Why not?
45:03>> And so
45:05>> yeah, they started messing with new
45:06heroes and and Zealot is the first like
45:08big drop of that of that labor being
45:10seen. Now, if you haven't been playing
45:12Heroes of the Storm in the meantime,
45:13there's been tons of really good updates
45:17in in the past couple of years, um,
45:19which apparently were the first signs
45:21that this team were doing things, uh,
45:23that we just hadn't heard. They weren't
45:25doing blog posts. They weren't doing
45:26interviews. So, we were all kind of
45:27flying in the dark. We're like, I don't
45:28know, something's keeping the light on
45:29over there because we're we were getting
45:31full hero reworks in the last couple
45:34>> graphical changes, like new effects and
45:36stuff added to the game. It wasn't just
45:37stats. Yeah,
45:40>> I thought the game was actually like
45:41switched off until you two told me you
45:43still play it after like it's genuinely
45:45like, wait, didn't they turn the game
45:47off and you're like, "No, we play it all
45:49the time." Like, oh, okay.
45:50>> If we ever end a meeting early, we go
45:53into Heroes of the Storm. That's like
45:54that's what we do here.
45:56Point of order. Uh, I had to go look
45:58this up to make sure I wasn't I didn't
46:00hallucinate the whole thing. But while
46:03you say HOTS is the red-headed
46:05stepchild, the bastard stepchild of
46:07Blizzard, I would like to say, do y'all
46:10remember Warcraft Rumble
46:14>> wasn't there in any way? I I
46:16>> Now that's the bastard child. That's the
46:18That's the
46:19>> We're talking about real games, not
46:21Soulless.
46:23>> I forgot. I thought I hallucinated it. I
46:25was like, wasn't there another game that
46:27they and I had to look it up. It is the
46:29very bottom of the blizzard.com page
46:32where they list all their games. It's
46:34the very last one
46:35>> and they still in Starcraft 2.
46:38>> It's on there though. It's
46:39>> that's because it is the it is the
46:42beacon of Bobby Kotek's personal
46:45manipulation of Blizzard Entertainment.
46:48>> It is.
46:48>> The only person who asked about Rumble
46:50was my 10-year-old son cuz he's the only
46:52one who played that game that I know of.
46:54>> Damn.
46:55>> It's below Heroes.
46:57Yeah. On the list like there you go.
46:59That's cool.
47:00>> There was no signage, no posters. It was
47:03>> dead, gone.
47:05>> I have a I have a question for for you,
47:06Jesse and Mike. Uh do you do you have
47:08this I have this thing where my my my
47:13weather my weather report starts like
47:16the claxon starts sounding when there's
47:18like a new game from a high-profile
47:21studio and the only people I know
47:22showing any interest are only content
47:24creators.
47:26>> Mhm. Oh yeah. Yeah. You mean every PVP
47:30looter shooter that's come out of a
47:31company that had no actual experience
47:33making one? Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
47:35>> Yeah. Yeah. If the people in my circle,
47:37the only people talking about it are
47:38content creators. I'm like, that's a bad
47:39sign.
47:40>> Yeah. And this is going to be the next
47:42big thing to launch them into the
47:43stratosphere. They're really putting a
47:44lot of lot of hope into that basket that
47:46this is going to be the one.
47:48>> Yeah. That was Warcraft Rumble. I never
47:50heard I never heard a real person cuz
47:53we're all, you know, soulless. Mortal's
47:57doing quite well surprisingly like I
47:58thought that would have been dead and
48:00buried. I was talking to the immortal
48:01content creators. They were like, "Dude,
48:03it's been really good." Uh like the
48:04free-to-play
48:06>> content creators have been doing really
48:08successfully. A lot of people still
48:09playing that game.
48:10>> Yeah, Immortals Immortals tough cuz like
48:14so many people love to dump on it and
48:16like they're they're never going to be
48:18receptive to hearing that it's actually
48:19kind of a decent mobile Diablo game,
48:22which it is. But
48:24>> the announcement was so cool. That was
48:26that was it. It was marketed so badly.
48:27But the game itself, I've never played
48:29it. I barely touched Diablo, so I'm not
48:31going to Diablo Immortal, but
48:33>> yeah. But yeah, they was kind of hyper
48:35there this time about Immortal, which is
48:38>> cool. Like I I thought that was going to
48:39be the Way of Warcraft Rumble.
48:41>> Uh but nope, that one's actually doing
48:43quite well. But then we got the Star
48:44Should we go to Starcraft?
48:46>> Yeah, let's go to Starcraft. It's like,
48:47you know, Kyle, you and me, we we're we
48:49we're definitely capable of the of the
48:52loud, yelling, excited hype. But
48:55starting a a Blizzcon with new Heroes of
48:58Storm and new Starcraft led to I think
49:02the first time I've ever left one of our
49:03streams legitimately horse.
49:06>> Yeah.
49:07>> This is the only thing that got spoiled
49:08for me at the Mixer. Someone said, "Do
49:11you want a spoiler?" And they were
49:12obviously trying to wind me up that they
49:13were going to reveal what it was about.
49:14Wow. Cuz I hate spoilers. I was like,
49:16"No, no, I don't want to know anything."
49:17And he went, "It's going to be a
49:18Starcraft shooter." And I was like,
49:19"Fuck off, man." Like, "Shut up."
49:23But
49:24>> all but confirmed.
49:25>> Yeah. Well, I mean, he's announced it
49:26now. He says it on there. It's an open
49:28world shooter. Like, during the
49:29announcer, um, but it's so 40k. Like, it
49:33looks like they're going really dark,
49:36really, really heavy. Like, it was just
49:37a pure meat grinder game. I was like,
49:39"Nice, bro." Like, that's what I want
49:41out of my Starcraft. 40k the [ __ ] out of
49:43it.
49:44>> Yeah. Uh, I mean, I did I never I was
49:46really late to even finding out what the
49:48hell Warhammer even was. So, like to me,
49:50Starcraft was my first experience with
49:52any sort of like ultraviolent
49:55multi-ra
49:56space war. Um, and so to me, this is
50:00like what Starcraft's always been in my
50:01head. Like, you know, I I I eventually
50:04got into competitive Starcraft, but I
50:06originally started playing that game
50:07just because I thought the campaign was
50:08sick. I liked the setting. I liked the
50:10characters. I liked the the the world.
50:13And uh like it like low key is my
50:16favorite universe in Blizzard. Like I
50:19really like Starcraft, but like um
50:23I'm going to invoke age now, Jesse. I'm
50:25too old to put the hours in to be even
50:28kind of okay at an RTS. Like that RTS
50:31freaks are on on a a level commiserate
50:35with fighting game freaks. Like I just
50:37>> But the story like the story mode of
50:40those like Starcraft I I we talked about
50:43this a little bit earlier this week, but
50:45like Starcraft 1 and Brood War might be
50:48some of my favorite stories Blizzard's
50:50ever produced. Like they're really well
50:52done. They're really fun. Wings of
50:55Liberty is great. I don't talk about the
50:57other two. Uh, BUT WITH THAT SAID, like
51:01this trailer when they started saying
51:03like the Dominion, I was like, "OH, THIS
51:05DOES CHECK OUT IN A REALLY messed up
51:07way." Cuz of course the Dominion would
51:08meet grind dudes like, "Yeah, all right,
51:10let's go." I was really, this was hype
51:13as hell. This entire trailer and I just
51:15want to say the video footage exists.
51:18Kindor and I watching THIS BEING LIKE,
51:19"OH, YEAH." AND then 2030 and we were
51:22like, "2030?"
51:24The amount of shock I WAS LIKE, WE COULD
51:27ALL BE DEAD IN THE WATER WARS BY THEN.
51:29WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
51:30>> OH, COME ON. It's not that far.
51:33>> Yeah, we'll
51:35shack up with Mike.
51:37>> We'll be fine.
51:39>> I'm really curious. And this is this is
51:41unfortunately the problem with a lot of
51:43these long announcements. Like
51:47a lot can happen. Not in the world. I
51:49mean just like gamedev wise.
51:52>> A lot. Oh, 100%.
51:54>> So, you know, we got a cool trailer. I
51:57have no idea what actually exists of
51:58this game. What is actually like going
52:01to be
52:03this could be anywhere from a Hell
52:05Divers kind of thing to a, you know, 40k
52:08space marine kind of thing to like an
52:11over the shoulder or first person. Like,
52:14I don't know. I'm not even sure they
52:15know to be honest. So, like
52:17>> there's a solid interview with Inven
52:20Global. They sat down with three of the
52:21the lead developers on this and it's the
52:24closest thing I've seen to
52:27interesting information on what the game
52:28is actually going to be. Um the the
52:32headline says that it's a single player
52:34box game. However, I read this entire
52:36article.
52:38No one confirms single player in this
52:40whole ass article. They call it a box
52:42product, but they don't call it single
52:44player. And so I'm like I feel
52:46>> we know it's not us. Yes.
52:48>> Yes. This is 100% confirmed. Yeah,
52:50>> we know it's not Starcraft 3. That's
52:52what we know.
52:52>> But in this interview, they also talk
52:53about it like it's freaking Elden Ring.
52:55They're talking about how it's it it's a
52:57story with a beginning, a middle, and an
52:58end. And they but they said it's also
53:00going to be a massive open world and
53:01that if you try to just mainline the
53:04story and it it it's too hard for you.
53:06You can go out to the open world and get
53:09better gear, level up in a sense, that
53:12kind of thing.
53:12>> What do you mean though gameplay
53:13loopwise? I don't
53:14>> I don't know. No, but they said that
53:16they expect you to just kind of play it
53:18and finish the game is is the vibe. So,
53:20it's going to be like a AAA
53:24story experience out of Blizzard.
53:26>> I mean, I'm into that. Like the idea of
53:27the bonfire, the classic bonfire, except
53:29you're advancing your barracks, you
53:31know, down the line. You walk out as a
53:33different guy in the suit, maybe even
53:35the same suit. That's how you keep your
53:36loot. I'll be a little sad that I can't
53:38play as a Zealot or a Zergling, but that
53:42sounds pretty sick.
53:43>> That's real. I would love I would love
53:45it if they let you play as the others,
53:47but it's f it. I'd be fine if they made
53:51Starcraft 2, but like Hell Divers did.
53:54I'd be fine with that. I'm a simple man.
53:56I'd play the hell out of that and I
53:58would have no problem.
53:59>> I assumed it was going to be, but since
54:01like they're really hammering home like
54:03this these the makes the world sound
54:05massive. And I'm assuming there's got to
54:07be multiple worlds. There's no way you
54:08can keep this on one planet. That'd be a
54:10bummer. that. And I did think that was
54:12weird that they were that it would be
54:13one planet.
54:16I wonder if that's like a planet as a
54:18level or like I don't know. One planet
54:20seems weird for a space game.
54:22>> Yeah.
54:22>> But they could do it. They could be like
54:24you're fighting for this world and then
54:26maybe a new expansion is you're fighting
54:28for another world. Like they could do
54:29it. It'd just be weird for a space game.
54:32>> Yeah. I wanted it to be like that old
54:34MMO Hooksley where maybe it's got a
54:36single player story, but the multiplayer
54:37campaigns drop you into like a base that
54:39you've got to defend from a Zerg rush.
54:40You know, ultralisks are popping out of
54:42the floor. You've got all the mega
54:44weapons you could jump. I mean, you kind
54:46of want like Battlefield
54:47>> really, but set in Starcraft that would
54:50be that that kind of environment would
54:53be a heaven. I was hoping it'd be a
54:54Starcraft MMO. I was like, please give
54:57me cuz I don't like fairies and [ __ ]
54:59>> I I would I'm a sci-fi guy. I that's
55:02what I said. It's like I will literally
55:03impregnate everybody here if it's a
55:05Starcraft.
55:06>> If they do if they make it like
55:07Battlefield where it isn't just you are
55:10on the ground as a soldier. It's
55:12literally you can fly like you can
55:14Valkyrie. You can like screw it. I'm
55:16going to be an SCV guy and like you
55:17could just do all the things. If you
55:20could get in a tank, that'd be cool as
55:22[ __ ]
55:22>> Did anyone here play AVP multiplayer?
55:25Because if you if you got enough kills,
55:27you could turn into a queen. And the
55:29idea of like heading out as a lowly
55:31zergling, getting a couple kills,
55:32spending those points for a hydrolisk,
55:34upgrading to a lurker, like that would
55:36be so exciting.
55:38>> Uh, but
55:40>> it seems like that might be in the
55:42sequel, Kyle,
55:43>> maybe. Right. Yeah. He's the Far Cry
55:46guy, right? Isn't that the leader? He's
55:47from Far Cry.
55:49>> That's what they said. Yeah.
55:50>> Yeah. which was the first thing I
55:51thought of when they said open world
55:53shooter cuz I'm like well for me that's
55:54that's that's far cry cuz that was the
55:56first shooter to really impress me with
55:58the breadth of its of its map
56:00>> or Ghost Recon that was pretty get in
56:02there and screw around.
56:04>> Oh 100%. and Wildlands was fun. But
56:07yeah,
56:08>> to respond to chat, I see a lot of
56:09people being like, "The games you're
56:10talking about already exist." Yes, but
56:13not Blizzard properties. And Blizzard
56:14loves doing this, taking the best of
56:17other games and cramming it into their
56:19own game. And frankly, I'm fine with
56:21that. I play the [ __ ] out
56:23game that feels like other games. Like,
56:25yeah, all right.
56:26>> That's their their mo at Blizzard. We
56:28steal and improve, and we do that very,
56:31very [ __ ] well. Really well.
56:33>> And it's a beacon. It's like it's like
56:34complaining every car on Earth has a
56:36steering wheel. At a certain point, you
56:37need to make a game.
56:37>> Well, it's a calling card, right? Like
56:39that's the hardest part about a lot of
56:40these games. I love natural selection. I
56:42do. I've played it a lot, but you can't
56:44get a good game and usually it falls
56:46apart because dude wants to be player
56:48one and control the the main map
56:51mechanic.
56:51>> Yeah. Yeah.
56:52>> So, when Blizzard makes something, it's
56:54big enough that you get the players in
56:56there, there develops a economy for it,
56:59a community, and you get to keep doing
57:00and getting better. I will fight Jesse
57:03on that. Legacy of the Void is a bad
57:05game mechanically. It was the most
57:09mechanically all them were fantastic.
57:11That's We're not talking mechanics
57:14RTS. They're very good.
57:15>> The Space Whale show is nonsense.
57:18>> Okay. Absolutely. Okay.
57:20>> I should play this campaign, right? Cuz
57:21I did not play any of the Starcraft 2
57:23campaign.
57:24>> Legacy of the void.
57:25>> Play Wings of Liberty. It's basically
57:27perfect. Yes.
57:27>> Yeah. Hold on. Did you Did you play any
57:29of Diablo 3?
57:33>> Yeah, I did one.
57:34>> You play Diablo 4?
57:36>> No, I for like 20 minutes new World of
57:39Warcraft.
57:40>> Yes,
57:41>> that's the story.
57:44>> So, it's the same story across all three
57:45games. Just
57:47>> so Lilith is Dalat is uh Carrian.
57:50>> Carrian. Yes, they're all
57:52>> okay.
57:53>> They're all There is literally I'm not
57:55even joking. I'm pretty sure they made
57:57them all in like the same soup that the
58:00Powerpuff Girls were in where they just
58:01threw in the exact same ingredients and
58:03then popped their different
58:04>> It's Taco Bell. It's Taco Bell. They
58:06have they have the They have like seven
58:08ingredients and everything they do is a
58:09slightly different remix of all of it.
58:11But but how dare you? Carrian is not
58:13Salad. Carrian is a slight remix on
58:16Arthus, who is what are we doing? Like
58:19come on here.
58:19>> Yeah, but they're all the same. Warcraft
58:223 is so good because Warcraft 3 has like
58:24seven Darth Vader surrogate characters.
58:26That's why Warcraft 3 is amazing.
58:28>> Villain is irredeemable, but also the
58:30hero we ALL NEED. THAT'S LITERALLY EVERY
58:33TIME.
58:34>> OVERWATCH GOT A TOASTER for their
58:35restaurant. The sandwiches are
58:36completely different.
58:40>> Yeah, Carrian is just kind of Sylvanas.
58:42You're right. Yeah.
58:43>> Oh [ __ ] Now he's thinking about
58:44>> I think she actually got like a pretty
58:46good a pretty good arc in Heart of the
58:48Swarm. Not everyone agrees with me
58:50compared to Sylvanas in World of
58:52Warcraft.
58:52>> It her arc there is an ending in the
58:56second game and then Legacy of Void
58:58comes out and they it Legacy of Void is
59:00is literally the Rise of Skywalker of
59:04Starcraft. Yes,
59:05>> it is so bad story-wise. You're like,
59:08"What do you mean?"
59:10>> Also, Jesse, it's kind of a it's kind of
59:12a JRPG cuz it just it escalates into
59:15Kill God.
59:17>> Yes, it really does. It really it really
59:19just they're like screw it. Yeah, man.
59:21>> But the mechanics are phenomenal. Like
59:23it's the best design RT has ever made.
59:26>> I will never poo poo Blizzard mechanics.
59:28They're always they
59:30>> competitive side die then.
59:32>> Well, for one, they just kept adding
59:33more ass mechanics to the game to
59:35escalate things and no one wanted to
59:37play it anymore because it was so unfun
59:39to get your stuff sniped by widow mines.
59:43Yeah, I don't know what any of those
59:44things are, but but it it got they tried
59:46to make it better but made it worse in
59:48the same time.
59:50>> Yep.
59:50>> Generally speaking.
59:51>> Yep.
59:52>> Only the sweatiest of the sweatiest were
59:54left.
59:55>> Blizzard Blizzard is Taco Bell appears
59:56to be hitting chat quite well. I'm happy
59:58for that one. Sweet. You can take that.
59:59Just, you know, just remember
1:00:01>> it was as [ __ ] though.
1:00:02>> It was. You know what's so messed up
1:00:04about that is it's so real that
1:00:07comparison that I think about the fact
1:00:09that I don't know maybe like early this
1:00:10year or last year Taco Bell was like
1:00:13we're bringing back the menu from the
1:00:14'9s and I was never more excited. I went
1:00:17BACK I GOT A cheese day one and that's
1:00:21Blizzard. Blizzard's like we're Warcraft
1:00:22forever and I was like oh my god I'm
1:00:24there day one dude they
1:00:26>> I missed the brought back this year. I
1:00:29was so stoked.
1:00:32I'm so sorry about the UK and it [ __ ]
1:00:34sucks so badly.
1:00:35>> If they brought back the spork, I'd be
1:00:38there would be flames where my feet
1:00:40were,
1:00:41>> dude. The chili cheese burrito. That's
1:00:43Warcraft forever for me. That's it.
1:00:45They're the same thing.
1:00:46>> Yep.
1:00:47>> It's Oh my god.
1:00:50Nailed it. You nailed it. It Taco Bell.
1:00:53>> That is true of pretty also. That is
1:00:55true of like essentially all legacy IP.
1:00:58>> You're like, I'm sick of Star Wars. It's
1:00:59all the same. Yeah, you're still
1:01:01watching Star Wars. That's a mistake you
1:01:02made. Congratulations. What were you
1:01:03expecting? It's Star Wars. Like,
1:01:05Warcraft is Warcraft. Star Wars is a
1:01:07pretty big mixup. Like, honestly, that
1:01:08is kind of
1:01:08>> I agree. I agree. And that's why that's
1:01:10why I'm excited about it. I also happen
1:01:11to really like how most Blizzard games
1:01:13play.
1:01:14>> Mhm.
1:01:14>> So, hearing that they're they're taking
1:01:17a stab at like a proper shooter, I'm
1:01:19like, sweet. I I bet it's going to feel
1:01:21really good because there there is
1:01:24>> I mean, Overwatch
1:01:26not. But I mean they have a shooter
1:01:28already and it does play very [ __ ]
1:01:29well. Like Yep. You know.
1:01:31>> Yeah. But but I like I like I like my
1:01:33shooters to not be so cartoony. I I like
1:01:36munitions.
1:01:36>> Oh yeah. Like the style of Overwatch
1:01:39feels to me.
1:01:40>> But it plays well. There's no denying
1:01:42like that a game plays.
1:01:43>> The style of Overwatch is all I like.
1:01:46>> We That's been the butts.
1:01:48>> Talking about again. He just wants He's
1:01:50just anus focused always.
1:01:54>> You wouldn't put a carrot on a stick in
1:01:55front of Jesse. It just be a butt on a
1:01:57pole. Go.
1:01:58>> I mean, who among us has everyone got to
1:02:01see this man describe the shape of
1:02:02Azeroth? Because it's a sight.
1:02:06>> I I must have missed this. I was I was
1:02:08talking with Noble about Azeroth and I
1:02:10was trying to explain it using my hands.
1:02:13I was like, "All right, I don't have the
1:02:14map in front of me, but you know how
1:02:15there's like you got the continent here
1:02:18and then the continent here and then
1:02:19like in the middle here is this
1:02:21maelstrom and IT'S LIKE RIGHT, YOU KNOW,
1:02:23IT'S KIND of like that. I DIDN'T REALIZE
1:02:25WHAT I WAS DOING AND I WAS LIKE, "OH
1:02:27NO." SO THAT EXISTS on the internet now.
1:02:29There you go.
1:02:30>> Yeah. You were just toss salad is what
1:02:32you
1:02:32>> It was a great video. It was a good
1:02:34video.
1:02:35>> And that's all we're going to say about
1:02:36Overwatch cuz no one here plays. Diablo
1:02:385 is already announced.
1:02:40>> Yep. Uh but a good lead in. This uh this
1:02:44was a little surprising but also okay
1:02:46cuz there's still legs in four. So I
1:02:48think people are just happy that another
1:02:50one's coming and they're still doing
1:02:51stuff for four. This was this is what
1:02:52you wanted from Starcraft is you were
1:02:54like, "We're already we're still making
1:02:55the usual stuff and you're getting this
1:02:57later on." So, I think Diablo kind of
1:02:59hit the nail on the head with what they
1:03:00were doing.
1:03:00>> I I love that whatever lessons they took
1:03:04from Diablo I Diablo II, they clearly
1:03:06keep going different directions, and I'm
1:03:09fine with that. It reminds me of the
1:03:11like early 2000. It No, it actually is
1:03:14right now. It's It's uh Silent Hill.
1:03:17There are so many Silent Hill games
1:03:18coming out and each one's different and
1:03:19they just keep pumping out new ones and
1:03:21I'm fine with that. If Blizzard wants to
1:03:23be like, you know what, you have Diablo
1:03:24II, Diablo 4, here's a new one where
1:03:27it's going to be a different vibe. Al,
1:03:28I'm like, yeah, all right, cool. Great.
1:03:30>> Diablo resurrected, you can still play
1:03:31that. You know, that's still popping off
1:03:33on the charts as well.
1:03:34>> That got new content this year.
1:03:36>> Yeah, the the Warlock there. That was a
1:03:37good bit of content.
1:03:38>> So, okay. All right. I'm seeing I'm
1:03:40seeing this in chat and so so Jesse
1:03:42Mike, you seem pretty pretty positive on
1:03:44on D5, but but I've been hearing this
1:03:46everywhere. I even got like one of my
1:03:47old college roommates like texting me
1:03:49and I've been seeing this take
1:03:50everywhere that it's an admission of
1:03:52Diablo I's failure which uh first of all
1:03:55why are we all talking like like
1:03:56corporate guys like that's
1:03:58>> well
1:03:59>> are we invested in the stocks
1:04:03>> right it sounds like mad money like what
1:04:05do we Huh
1:04:06>> if there's an admission of anything it's
1:04:08that they have enough money to do Diablo
1:04:11I like if they if Diablo I sucked there
1:04:14wouldn't be a Diablo five. It's like
1:04:16that is as simple as it is. So
1:04:19>> yeah, I I I hear that because to me like
1:04:21the people in my circle that like four
1:04:24are very happy with four.
1:04:27>> Yeah. And you got two more years of
1:04:29that. And they're obviously investing
1:04:31heavily into Diablo. It must be doing
1:04:32better than people thought because we're
1:04:33getting the TV show as well. They chose
1:04:35Diablo of all the IPs to make the TV
1:04:37show.
1:04:37>> Yeah.
1:04:38>> So I mean that was hype as hell. Like
1:04:40obviously you you want your favorite IP
1:04:43to be the thing, but a Diablo one that
1:04:45sounds like it's going to be sick. So
1:04:46they obviously have good investment in
1:04:48Diablo.
1:04:48>> And it's not coming out next. It's
1:04:50coming in 2029. Like and that will be
1:04:52October 2029 kind of thing. It's Yeah,
1:04:56man. It you have plenty of time. There's
1:04:59still years left of Diablo I.
1:05:01>> Yeah. Yeah. I think I think it's pro I I
1:05:04honestly think this energy is coming out
1:05:05of like a a borderline uh console war
1:05:08kind of flavor because I think you have
1:05:10the POE 2 fans out there and it seems
1:05:12like it's a more popular game. Um I I
1:05:15haven't looked at numbers cuz I'm not a
1:05:16huge ARPG head, but
1:05:18>> I mean
1:05:20>> POE 2 I I like significantly more than
1:05:23the time I tried Diablo I and was like,
1:05:25"No, this ain't for me." And that's fine
1:05:28because now there's a Diablo 5 and that
1:05:30could be for me. Like it's
1:05:32>> totally okay to not like a game. Like
1:05:34it's whatever.
1:05:36>> I always feel like the odd man out now
1:05:37cuz I really like three. Three was like
1:05:39fast and arcadey and I I had a really
1:05:41fun time with it.
1:05:42>> Like I did first three on launch cuz
1:05:44everybody did, right? You got it free.
1:05:45>> Yeah, it was a little rough at launch.
1:05:46Reaper of Souls ruled. I freaking love
1:05:50the Reaper era of D3. I don't know what
1:05:52happened, but sometimes around season 12
1:05:55or so of Diablo III, I just started
1:05:58playing it every season, making a new
1:06:00character, going through the motions,
1:06:02getting the the cool looking gear. I
1:06:05never cared before that and suddenly I I
1:06:08don't know if I hit like boredom or
1:06:10what, but I just started playing and I
1:06:11loved every minute of it. It was great.
1:06:14That's my relationship with ARPGs. Like
1:06:16I I'm I never play them until I do.
1:06:18There's just comes a day where
1:06:20>> yeah,
1:06:20>> that's what I want and then I'm hooked
1:06:23for a long stint. Um, but I I haven't
1:06:26had that with D4 this this entire time.
1:06:28I've had some friends try and get me
1:06:29into it. They're like, dude, it has sped
1:06:31up a bit. If you like D3, you'd probably
1:06:32like it now. But I just I got other
1:06:35things on my plate.
1:06:36>> I just playing WoW forever.
1:06:37>> I just love that oppressive like
1:06:39everything sucks of D2. And from the
1:06:43little bit we've heard about like the
1:06:44caravan system they're doing for five,
1:06:46it sounds like everything sucks and
1:06:49everyone's dead. So you got your pony
1:06:52and a little tent and you're just going
1:06:54to see how far you can go.
1:06:56>> You're going to kill the devil, baby.
1:06:58>> Yeah,
1:06:59>> that's what you got to do cuz it's
1:07:00Diablo. You're going to rip everything
1:07:02to pieces with your monstrous mighty
1:07:04spells, which is that game is just Power
1:07:05Fantasy the game. That's that's what it
1:07:07is. It's a little it's a light ARPG. not
1:07:10too d not too complex and you can just
1:07:12smash everything up.
1:07:13>> And it does, even though it's it's like
1:07:15the caravan system and what they're
1:07:17talking about like end of days kind of
1:07:18stuff, it does at its core speak to
1:07:21Diablo 1, which was you're just a dude
1:07:23in a town going into a dungeon. You
1:07:26don't have backup and and like the
1:07:28town's people aren't going to help you,
1:07:29right? And it's a very minimalized
1:07:31having it uh well, everything's screwed.
1:07:34You don't have much. Just play. I like
1:07:37that. I like the idea of I don't have to
1:07:39concern myself with like what's going on
1:07:41in you know the fog deserts or the like
1:07:44who cares it's all on fire just go kill
1:07:46like all right I love that let's go I'm
1:07:49down yeah it's like if you play POE when
1:07:52they try and tell you the story you're
1:07:53like please show up like I just want to
1:07:55keep murdering people this is
1:07:57interfering with the murder stop telling
1:07:59me these things I don't want to know
1:08:01Deca Kane please go away I just want to
1:08:03murder
1:08:04>> how dare you how dare killed by a moth
1:08:06The
1:08:08>> most I've perked up on D4 stuff in
1:08:10forever is when they were like, "And
1:08:11Decard Kane is coming back." I'm like,
1:08:12"Oh, maybe I'll check this out cuz I
1:08:15miss that old man." I love him
1:08:16whispering sweet nothings in my ear. I'm
1:08:18with Mike. Don't go.
1:08:19>> I do need to do the D4 story though.
1:08:20Everyone tells me the D4 story is
1:08:22actually kind of kind of hype. Uh, and I
1:08:24haven't played through the story.
1:08:25>> I tried I I really I tried D4 at launch
1:08:27and I was just like, I can't take any
1:08:29more of this blizzard. Really?
1:08:31>> They're overly verbose villains.
1:08:33>> They are great, but like Yeah. had on
1:08:35this is my this this is me getting
1:08:37deeply personal, but that little
1:08:39cinematic was so hype. It was so sick.
1:08:41She was terrifying looking. And then she
1:08:44just walks in in even lighting in D4
1:08:47constantly and just starts talking to
1:08:49you like she works at Walmart.
1:08:52>> I'm just like completely ruined any of
1:08:56the terror of the mystery of the danger.
1:08:59She's just like just another Blizzard
1:09:01villain. And I'm like, could you just
1:09:05want you they really want you to
1:09:07sympathize with her. I know a lot of
1:09:08people who are like, I don't think
1:09:10Lilith did anything wrong, guys.
1:09:12>> Which is why then this is you're
1:09:14correct.
1:09:15>> WHICH IS THE SAME. THEY'RE all the same.
1:09:18It's like you can just make a villain.
1:09:20You can just make a baddy. Like it's
1:09:22fine.
1:09:24>> Oh well.
1:09:25>> Yeah. That's why the last time I was
1:09:27like super invested in WoW story was
1:09:30Gash because I'm like he's a evil piece
1:09:32of [ __ ] and he did good job building him
1:09:34up.
1:09:35>> Yeah.
1:09:35>> Yeah. It's great.
1:09:36>> He nuked a tree. That was fun.
1:09:42>> He n a town kid when they showed the
1:09:44tree back. That was like
1:09:46>> whatever. Stone Talon. They nuked Stone
1:09:48Talon.
1:09:50>> He he bombed Jana's uh tower.
1:09:55the tree burning with Sylvanas. Oh,
1:09:57there was a tree town that he also
1:09:58bombed. How many trees have we How many
1:10:00trees have we used as lint?
1:10:02>> Look, dude. Cataclysm had a dope there
1:10:04was that that storyline that went
1:10:05through like all these zones that ended
1:10:08with goblins nuking a town.
1:10:12It's great. I was like, yo, this
1:10:16>> is that was it the Nageddon quest line
1:10:18where you rolled that giant bomb through
1:10:20all the goblins and
1:10:21>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you had to like
1:10:22do a whole all it ended with the Stone
1:10:24Talon Mountains and you blew up uh like
1:10:26a tree that was there that a bunch of
1:10:29elves were like this is our home and
1:10:30we're like not anymore [ __ ] It was
1:10:33>> crazy. I couldn't believe they did that.
1:10:35>> Um
1:10:37so anyway, uh shout out to my old home,
1:10:40Hearthstone. I'm out, but new stuff's
1:10:43looking good.
1:10:45Enjoy your 2v2 in your monk class. Does
1:10:47anyone here want to jump on Hearthstone
1:10:48now? Yes,
1:10:49>> old god's cool. No. Damn,
1:10:50>> the old gods. Look, I love what the the
1:10:54art they gave us of like full body old
1:10:56gods was cool as [ __ ] I loved that.
1:10:59Will I play it? No. I'm terrible at
1:11:01those card games. But did I like what I
1:11:04saw? I WAS LIKE, "YEAH, THAT'S NEAT.
1:11:05That's pretty cool. I like the way they
1:11:07look."
1:11:08>> I was upset.
1:11:10>> There wasn't a song. Didn't they used to
1:11:12have songs? Wasn't there like had like a
1:11:14a jaunty song? I was expecting
1:11:18>> Yeah, I was expecting like we're the old
1:11:20gods and we're here to kill. We're doing
1:11:23a dance by our cards. Like I thought
1:11:25there was be like a thing.
1:11:28>> I feel you.
1:11:28>> No, nothing. Nothing.
1:11:30>> Okay. All right. Warcraft 3 Forsaken
1:11:33Kingdom new campaign for the first time
1:11:36in 23 years for Warcraft 3.
1:11:38>> Sick.
1:11:39>> Yeah,
1:11:40>> this is an awesome announcement because
1:11:41this and there was no like people saying
1:11:43like Warcraft 4. I was talking about see
1:11:44you guys earlier, but Warcraft 3 still
1:11:46has loads of legs in it. The graphics
1:11:48are great. You can just make campaigns
1:11:50and just stick them on and they're
1:11:51throwing it in with the forever bundle
1:11:52as well. Like it's a good way of
1:11:54marketing that game. Like they just
1:11:56Well, if you buy the collector's edition
1:11:57or whatever is the
1:11:58>> They got my money immediately. I was
1:11:59like, "Well, I'm going to play that and
1:12:00I don't want I don't want to, you know,
1:12:01I don't want to see locked races on my
1:12:03WoW forever screen, so I guess I'll I
1:12:05guess up."
1:12:07>> I'm not No, they can't get me. I don't
1:12:08give
1:12:09>> Are we calling them uh What are we
1:12:10calling them? Are calling them blood
1:12:12money elves?
1:12:14I thought it was Shadowlands when they
1:12:16showed that picture. I was like,
1:12:17"Please, God, no."
1:12:19I honestly thought it was the Kion. It
1:12:21is. Yeah. I was like, "Please, please
1:12:23no."
1:12:24>> It's a little It's a little Yeah. Yeah.
1:12:26It's a little All right, let's let's
1:12:27just talk about Wow Forever. That's what
1:12:29everybody's freaking waiting for.
1:12:30>> WHAT ABOUT ECLIPSE AND MIDNIGHT? WHAT DO
1:12:32YOU MEAN, DUDE?
1:12:33>> No one cares.
1:12:35>> They do. There's the horror tale side
1:12:38thing coming. That's like plug.
1:12:40>> What's that? Okay. What's that? That
1:12:41sounds fun. It is looks fun, but nobody
1:12:44cares. It does look really fun. They're
1:12:46building like a little horror rogike
1:12:48adventure with like different classes
1:12:50that like witches and things. And look
1:12:53at that's just that's the face of every
1:12:55audience member when they knew Wild
1:12:57Forever existed.
1:12:59>> It's just
1:13:01there's here's the difference. Midnight,
1:13:04uh, Last Titan, we we we know, we've
1:13:08experienced what they have to offer, and
1:13:10they can only offer more of the same,
1:13:13but Forever has this sort of like
1:13:16potential that you just, you're not
1:13:19there yet, and it's right and it could
1:13:21be exactly what you've been waiting for
1:13:25and everyone's excited for that. That's
1:13:27the It has the exact same vibe as a new
1:13:30game where no one is like ready for it
1:13:34yet. No one has any expectations other
1:13:36than it's something new and I can't wait
1:13:38to That's what it is.
1:13:42>> Yeah.
1:13:42>> Yeah.
1:13:42>> Yeah. However, you the three of us can
1:13:45shut up for a second. What What What do
1:13:46you actually like Mike Legitimately like
1:13:49what what really stood out for you for
1:13:51retail? Like what in the midnight
1:13:52announcements gave you the I don't know
1:13:55that energy, that fizz, that hype.
1:13:59So, Forever's coming, which I really
1:14:02>> All right, THERE IT IS.
1:14:04>> I JUST FELT bad for the team cuz it
1:14:07looks fine. It looks absolutely fine.
1:14:09But you're right. I I listened to it and
1:14:13uh the the uh they've unlocked the
1:14:16transmog restrictions. So,
1:14:18>> cool.
1:14:18>> There's that. And in like quite
1:14:22seriously in their defense, there's been
1:14:24plenty of Blizzcons where this has been
1:14:26the case. Even before classic ever
1:14:28existed, there were just in between
1:14:30BlizzCons where we weren't ready to
1:14:31announce the next WoW expansion. And as
1:14:34far as WoW was concerned, it was pretty
1:14:37quiet at at the con. I don't think it it
1:14:40was quiet at the con. The game's not
1:14:42quiet. That's what's that's what the
1:14:43feeling I got is they are doing some
1:14:44really cool things, but it's just so
1:14:47overshadowed. like genuinely the the
1:14:49horror tales seems fun. Uh the um the
1:14:54new mega dungeon, the labyrinth, that
1:14:56seems cool as well. Like they're doing
1:14:57some really cool stuff. It was just
1:14:59completely demolished by
1:15:03uh by Forever. Like it was not even
1:15:05close. It was utterly demolished. And
1:15:06that my Discord and my phone blew the
1:15:10[ __ ] up while I was sat there and they
1:15:12announced Forever. And that said it all
1:15:15to me. No one text me or anything about
1:15:16Midnight, but as soon as Forever was
1:15:18announced, it was that was it. Guilds
1:15:20were formed within seconds. Bands were
1:15:22getting back together. Everybody was
1:15:24like, "Okay, like, let's start already
1:15:26start cutting people cuz you're trash.
1:15:27Where's your logs?
1:15:29>> I'm not I have not heard from my college
1:15:31roommates in years." And they were like,
1:15:35"My phone just, hey, what's this Wow
1:15:37Forever thing?" Like,
1:15:38>> Mhm.
1:15:39>> Friends I didn't even know played WoW
1:15:41hit me up like, "Yo, forever we doing
1:15:44this?" I'm like, what? Since when do you
1:15:47care?
1:15:48>> I think it's the perfect timing like to
1:15:49make it about age again, Jesse. Like you
1:15:51and I aren't in this camp,
1:15:53>> but those that are, a lot of people our
1:15:56age whose kids are old enough to
1:15:57entertain their damn selves now and our
1:16:00friends have free time again.
1:16:02>> Yep. Yeah, it's a good comment over here
1:16:04because I think there's a TBC Classic
1:16:07patch like a is like a Black Temple
1:16:10supposed to be coming and it's like the
1:16:11week after Forever comes out and TBC
1:16:14Classic is just collapsing immediately.
1:16:16Like [ __ ] this. We're going over here
1:16:18now. Like it seems to have just
1:16:19completely decimated WoW Classic.
1:16:22>> Yeah. Yeah. It's cannibalizing which is
1:16:25interesting that it has that big pool. A
1:16:27lot of people seem really happy with the
1:16:28Mythic Plus system. I know there's been
1:16:30a lot of bugs, but players in retail WoW
1:16:34basically having a great time.
1:16:36>> Mhm. Yep. It's uh but it's there's I
1:16:41don't know. I don't know where you Where
1:16:42do you guys before we get into this?
1:16:43Where do you guys sit with classic? Did
1:16:45you play classic? Cuz I didn't
1:16:48>> good amount. I Yeah, classic is now the
1:16:51primary way I play WoW. I'm not super
1:16:55hardcore the way I used to be. However,
1:16:57that is funny because I pretty much just
1:16:58play hardcore. I just go till I die and
1:17:00then I'm like, "Ah, good end spot. I'll
1:17:02come back to this later this year or
1:17:03maybe next year."
1:17:05>> Um, but uh it is it is the primary way I
1:17:08I interact with with WoW at this point.
1:17:10I've I played a little bit of the latest
1:17:12expansion. I I really like what they did
1:17:14with the elf stuff because that's a a
1:17:15personal bias of mine. I like blood
1:17:17elves, but um I just don't really care
1:17:20for how retail plays.
1:17:23>> I I I don't know because I started
1:17:25getting This is how this went for me.
1:17:27The day Forever was announced, everybody
1:17:29lost their [ __ ] [ __ ] and my phone was
1:17:31blowing up. Then I played it for a few
1:17:33hours and I let people know it's like it
1:17:36is based on classic, not like classic
1:17:38TBC, classic Lich King, like they've
1:17:40drawn some bits from there, but it is
1:17:41based on classics, like old school
1:17:43Runescape, right? It's they they've
1:17:45taken a lot of care and a lot of
1:17:46attention to make sure it's the classic
1:17:48experience, but it's new and you can't
1:17:50really tell. And it's really well done.
1:17:53Like if you didn't know the new dungeon,
1:17:56the new starting zone, you would think
1:17:57is originally from 2004. Like it really
1:18:01fits very very well. But it is still
1:18:02classic. And a lot of the people who
1:18:04were messaging me hate classic and how
1:18:06it plays. It's too slow. I don't like
1:18:08the fact that I have to drink after
1:18:10three mobs. And I was like, you guys
1:18:11need to be a little wary here. It is
1:18:14based in that world. But I never touched
1:18:16classic because I lived and breathed it
1:18:18every goddamn day for from beta all the
1:18:20way till it moved on to TBC and I played
1:18:22it every day. So I never really went
1:18:24back to classic. This is everything I
1:18:26want cuz that is a really nice
1:18:28environment to be in and it's now fresh
1:18:31and going to get to do different stuff.
1:18:32And that's the massive appeal to me is
1:18:34like ah thank you. I don't have to spoil
1:18:37my memories, my rose tintedness and it's
1:18:40still playing in that lovely that pacing
1:18:42that I fell in love with. Ah heaven. So
1:18:45for you, your aversion to to classic is
1:18:47is just kind of the been there, done
1:18:50that. Not necessarily that you don't
1:18:51like the mechanics of how it plays.
1:18:53>> I love the mechanics of it. The way I
1:18:55described it today when I was did my
1:18:56little debrief when I cuz I streamed for
1:18:58the first time today is like retail and
1:19:01classic. They're both like restaurants.
1:19:04Uh but one of them is a sit down order a
1:19:06burger from a menu. You sit down, you
1:19:08have a drink, you have a conversation, a
1:19:10little bit of time taken. And the other
1:19:11is like fast food. Like retail, I get
1:19:14the same sort of thing, but in retail, I
1:19:17can get that stove fast and have it
1:19:19delivered to me straight away. It's not
1:19:22got that sort of breathing time in it.
1:19:24And I'm also done with it really
1:19:25quickly. Like I consume retail in about
1:19:2710 days and there's nothing left for me
1:19:29but raiding and mythic plus over here. I
1:19:32take my time. I get the same sort of
1:19:34thing out of it. I still get the burger
1:19:36and they're not that different, but it's
1:19:37a different experience. It's a different
1:19:39environment to be in. there's a
1:19:40different expectation
1:19:41>> of being in that environment and I I
1:19:43have room for both and that's what I'm
1:19:45looking forward to. But
1:19:47>> I have also eaten at that restaurant in
1:19:50terms of like classic
1:19:52a thousand times
1:19:54>> cuz I played it every day for hours and
1:19:57hours and hours and the same with TBC
1:19:59and Wrath all the way up till I stopped
1:20:02in Shadowlands. I play I ate there every
1:20:04day. But now they're doing a new menu.
1:20:07It's the same restaurant. I love the
1:20:08same atmosphere. the same vibe but a new
1:20:10menu and I could not be happier. That's
1:20:13what I want.
1:20:15Sick.
1:20:18That's a solid.
1:20:19>> That's well said right there. Yeah,
1:20:21exactly. And to even without the new
1:20:23content to remove that friction like I
1:20:26remember just like hitting an area where
1:20:29all I could do was just farm nothing but
1:20:30a couple of elite dragons. It's all I
1:20:32could do. And so by updating those
1:20:35areas,
1:20:36>> changing out those
1:20:36>> You play horde?
1:20:37>> I I Well, originally I was a mage gnome.
1:20:42>> I was a gnome.
1:20:42>> Never mind.
1:20:43>> That's great. I love no mages. Uh no
1:20:45gnome mages and no warriors are my jam.
1:20:47They're so funny.
1:20:47>> That was my whole classic experience
1:20:49before my D&D group fell apart in BC and
1:20:51I became horde at that point.
1:20:54>> But I I lived and breathed that game. I
1:20:57I would I would print out the loot I got
1:21:00and post it on the doors of my fellow
1:21:02dormitories so they knew I was ahead of
1:21:04them.
1:21:06I got my chicken strider print out a
1:21:09picture on my little college printer
1:21:11posted up there.
1:21:13>> I did that with TBC achievement chart is
1:21:16like you cuz you I can't remember
1:21:18anything more satisfying than possibly
1:21:19losing my virginity than filling in one
1:21:21of those bubbles on the TBC achievement
1:21:23chart. It was like the best feeling when
1:21:27you finally got that heroic key. And you
1:21:29know what else I think is really
1:21:31>> Yeah. Like because uh classic has been
1:21:33so solved for so long for people who've
1:21:35been playing classic like having mystery
1:21:37and stuff again. I can't tell you how
1:21:40murdersome the new starter zone was
1:21:42because if you play classic now, people
1:21:44know every spawn of everything and where
1:21:46to go and you have heat maps of where
1:21:48people die. You like that add-on tech
1:21:50exists. Nobody knew [ __ ] and they were
1:21:53just getting murdered. There were things
1:21:55respawning where they didn't know where
1:21:57they were. People were running over
1:21:58mountains because there was three mobs
1:22:00chasing them. And it was like, yes,
1:22:02because all you guys who came back for
1:22:04classic didn't really have the classic
1:22:06experience we had in 2004.
1:22:08>> You got like a a nicer version, a solved
1:22:11version. Now we're all going in blind.
1:22:14And look at you failing.
1:22:17>> That is that is such a good way of
1:22:19looking at it. That's that's one of the
1:22:21reasons I didn't play classic was simply
1:22:24because
1:22:26yeah, the original was it wasn't about,
1:22:29you know, minmaxing till much later. It
1:22:31was about I don't know what's over
1:22:32there. I have no idea what's around the
1:22:34corner. I don't know what that does.
1:22:36Let's go look. And especially if you
1:22:38played as a shaman, that was like travel
1:22:40the world to get your damn totems and
1:22:42figure it out.
1:22:44>> That [ __ ] was crazy.
1:22:45>> And I loved that about original WoW. And
1:22:48the thing about, you know, I was
1:22:50immediately like I very much like you
1:22:52preacher. I was like, I already did
1:22:54that. I did that for 15 years. I don't
1:22:56know that I give a [ __ ] But I saw
1:22:58people playing it and I was like getting
1:23:00kind of hyped like all right. Yeah.
1:23:02Yeah. I Okay, I may give this a shot.
1:23:05And then I watched one stream of
1:23:08streamers playing in a guild together
1:23:10and I was like, no, never mind. I'm
1:23:11done. It was the most tryhardy [ __ ]
1:23:14I've ever seen. And I was like, "Oh, oh,
1:23:17it's not the classic experience. It's
1:23:20modern play styles thrown into a classic
1:23:23setting and people are going to minmax
1:23:26the [ __ ] out of this from day one." And
1:23:27that's what it was. And that sucks. I
1:23:29hate that. So, yeah, I'm with you on
1:23:32this whole idea of it's kind of new and
1:23:35refreshing and we don't know what's
1:23:36about to happen. And you, you know, you
1:23:39could play I may play a troll shaman
1:23:41again just to see the difference. I
1:23:43don't know. I may play something
1:23:44completely different. I like that I have
1:23:47the option to get lost in something
1:23:48again, but not in
1:23:52a hyper story way, but in a I you know
1:23:56what? I may play this game for a month,
1:23:58maybe two months, and that might be all
1:24:00I need. You know what I mean? Like, I'm
1:24:02just going to jump in, goof around,
1:24:04check some stuff out, and then be good.
1:24:07Because there isn't a I don't want like
1:24:10a now for a 25 year story. No, I'm good.
1:24:14I'm fine just being like the gnome on
1:24:17the ground who fights cobalts. That
1:24:20sounds great. Well, that's why that
1:24:22there there's so much advantage to doing
1:24:24horizontal progression and it's been
1:24:26weird. I did a video encouraging
1:24:29horizontal progression like two years
1:24:30ago and got massive negative feedback. I
1:24:33was like, "Wow, could benefit a lot from
1:24:34what other games are doing like Guild
1:24:36Wars with horizontal progression.
1:24:37There's a lot of benefit here."
1:24:39>> Yeah. because people are like, I
1:24:41couldn't imagine a world where your
1:24:42level just didn't keep going up. And
1:24:44there's some obvious problems with that.
1:24:46Certainly in terms of new players
1:24:47joining, when your levels get to like
1:24:49100 plus, it doesn't matter if like the
1:24:52first 90 are hyper fast, it's a big
1:24:54number and that turns people off, right?
1:24:57Just by its very nature is like there's
1:24:59a lot to do there. And you can go, well,
1:25:01not really. But for a new player, it is
1:25:02still a lot to do. They're not going to
1:25:04hyper level like you would level, right?
1:25:05And like, oh, I could do all this in in
1:25:07a couple of hours. It's going to take
1:25:08them forever to get there and it seems
1:25:10offputting, but like Jesse's just
1:25:12saying, and I said the same thing to
1:25:13lots of people, they're going to be
1:25:15releasing stuff for this game that may
1:25:17not appeal to you. And that's cool
1:25:20because it's horizontal progression. So,
1:25:21you can say, I'm not interested in that
1:25:23one. But then the one that's maybe three
1:25:24down the line, oh, they're doing
1:25:26something with that. And because it's
1:25:28horizontal, you're already level 60. You
1:25:31could just jump in more than likely. I'm
1:25:33There's lots of questions to be raised
1:25:35as to whether that is entirely possible.
1:25:38Uh, are they going to do linear raid
1:25:39progression again? They haven't done
1:25:41that since the burning crusade, right?
1:25:44Uh, oh, wrath.
1:25:46>> Where was last? When did they stop doing
1:25:47linear raid progression?
1:25:48>> Right. Where you needed the gear from
1:25:49the previous raid to go into the next
1:25:51one.
1:25:51>> Yeah.
1:25:52>> Was it Cataclysm?
1:25:54>> I think Wrath started introducing catch
1:25:56up with badge gear. So, it's TBC. I
1:25:58think technically it's the Burning
1:25:59Crusade and then they introduced it in
1:26:00like some Well, you could do some badge
1:26:02stuff,
1:26:02>> but I think linear progression is
1:26:04probably going to make a bit of a
1:26:05comeback which would be cool. That was
1:26:07my favorite version of WoW was was that
1:26:09>> it doesn't catibalize your previous
1:26:10content. And if you're doing horizontal
1:26:12progression, you can't do what they do
1:26:14in retail, which is like, "Hey, the new
1:26:15season's here. Everything that ever
1:26:17existed in this game before now is
1:26:19completely worthless to you." Cuz that's
1:26:21what happens, right? Immediately, they
1:26:23just cannibalize their own game when the
1:26:25new season starts. So, I'm hoping that's
1:26:27that's going that shouldn't be too much
1:26:29of the case. They said there's a little
1:26:30bit of vertical progression, but for the
1:26:32most part, ooh, we can go here. It's
1:26:34part of the reason I'm excited that they
1:26:36decided to just say f it and and
1:26:38transmog is optin
1:26:40>> because it's
1:26:40>> such a good solution because I thought
1:26:42they were going Yeah.
1:26:44>> Yeah. Doing content just to like get a
1:26:46piece of gear that you think looks looks
1:26:47cool I think helps a lot with this type
1:26:50of this type of progression system.
1:26:52>> Did you see the new drop thing as well?
1:26:54Like if it drops in a dungeon cuz they
1:26:56know people like need stuff they don't
1:26:57need for transmog. If it drops in a
1:26:59dungeon, everybody gets the transbug.
1:27:01>> Oh, right. I did hear about that. Yes.
1:27:02>> That's so good. Good. Good.
1:27:04>> Oh, good.
1:27:05>> That's extremely modern in in a game
1:27:07that is going to feel very old school,
1:27:09which which I like. Um,
1:27:10>> I think I I think that's what we were
1:27:12talking about at the beginning. This
1:27:13isn't a game for uh, you know, a
1:27:1617-year-old with a lot of free time.
1:27:18This is a game for a 35year-old who has
1:27:21two hours a night.
1:27:23>> Yep.
1:27:24>> And I'm here for it. I love this.
1:27:26>> And it might balloon into three hours a
1:27:27night or four hours a night or oh god,
1:27:29why did I stay up that late hours a
1:27:30night? Well, and that's the promise that
1:27:32I hope is with the forever title cuz
1:27:34season of discovery that was a fun idea,
1:27:36but I always knew it was finite and I
1:27:39could never put in enough time to make
1:27:42participating in that work. That's why I
1:27:43dropped off very quickly. While hardcore
1:27:46is different because I know I will be
1:27:50grueling through every single one of
1:27:52those levels. I will be struggling every
1:27:54time I log in. I'm going to give it my
1:27:55all. And there'll always be people
1:27:57around me giving it their all, too.
1:27:59Yeah, I got that question as well today.
1:28:01It's like if you say you don't like
1:28:03playing classic because you've done it
1:28:04before, why did you play hardcore? It's
1:28:05like because it it was a completely
1:28:07different experience, which is what I'm
1:28:09looking for here. Hardcore puts a
1:28:11totally different lens over what you've
1:28:13already seen and gives you that fresh
1:28:14experience where I don't really care
1:28:15that I'm I'm not just doing gear
1:28:17farming. There's a very big difference
1:28:18playing hardcore than just playing
1:28:19normally is you're just making a strong
1:28:21character as quickly as possible, right?
1:28:23And hardcore changes that. This is
1:28:24another version of that for me. uh
1:28:27coming in here. Like I I I cannot tell
1:28:29you how excited I am, but I'm also with
1:28:30Jesse. I don't expect I I think
1:28:34Blizzard's put in the stuff where you'll
1:28:35get some bonuses for leveling a ton of
1:28:37alts. Hopefully they're just cosmetics
1:28:39cuz changing leveling speed and stuff
1:28:40would be antithetical to what they're
1:28:42trying to do. Um you know, if you level
1:28:45all your alts or whatever, but I don't
1:28:46think it's that game that they want you
1:28:48to farm. That's not the point. It's
1:28:50called Forever cuz it's always going to
1:28:51be around. consume it, have fun with it,
1:28:54and then we'll have some new content for
1:28:56you at some point, and you can just drop
1:28:57back in as a squad. Have some fun. Uh,
1:29:00go for it. Like, they sounds like
1:29:01they're revamping the old raids. It's
1:29:03not cannon, so Molten Core is going to
1:29:04get changed and all and then eventually
1:29:06they'll just be making all the new
1:29:07raids. Sick. That's what I want. I I
1:29:10don't I'm not looking for a game anymore
1:29:12that wants my life. I'm not looking for
1:29:14it.
1:29:15>> I don't want to. I've got I'm backlogged
1:29:17as it is, and I drop out as soon as
1:29:19humanly possible, but I'm still
1:29:20backlogged to death. I don't need I
1:29:22don't need a game that's seven days a
1:29:24week. I don't want it.
1:29:26>> No, there's a fundamental change in that
1:29:27for just playability for me and that's
1:29:29controller support. I never wanted that
1:29:32until I had to publicly in my living
1:29:35room while watching kids play video
1:29:37games. Now everything's like, can I have
1:29:39a controller for this because it's so
1:29:41much easier just disengage, put down,
1:29:44come back.
1:29:46And the graphics update, I think it's
1:29:48kind of huge. Like to me that that
1:29:51Skyrim effect of you walk into the
1:29:53world. What? What's that? What's that
1:29:55all the way over there? There's a tower.
1:29:56What? What is that? When they're when
1:29:58they're messing with the fog, some of
1:30:00the things they showed with that
1:30:01lighting update is so impressive and
1:30:03just a natural exploratory way. And then
1:30:07you cancel out the importance of a
1:30:09story, which is something that Final
1:30:10Fantasy 14 does well, but it also
1:30:12elevates the importance dramatically. If
1:30:15you don't like that story, you're stuck
1:30:17with it and you will have hopes and
1:30:19dreams thinking about which characters
1:30:21you wish were a part of it. Whereas in
1:30:23World of Warcraft vanilla, if I was
1:30:24bored out of my mind, I leave.
1:30:28>> Sometimes you didn't have choice. Like
1:30:29you just did the dungeon again. There
1:30:31was nothing else to do.
1:30:33>> I also expect he kind of worded it
1:30:35interestingly. I can't remember his
1:30:37exact phrasing because he kind of skips
1:30:38over it. Is this is not going to be a
1:30:40particularly difficult game either.
1:30:42intentionally. It's not designed for
1:30:44that. I don't think it'll go push much
1:30:47beyond ideally like where Nax Ramis kind
1:30:50of got to in its original incarnation.
1:30:51I'm not talking about the solved Nax
1:30:53Ramis that people kind of crushed
1:30:54through.
1:30:54>> Uh I I cuz that's not where the
1:30:56difficulty in trial is in classic WoW.
1:30:59It was more gear based. You had very few
1:31:01buttons, but your gear made you were
1:31:03either pressing frostbolt with a trinket
1:31:04or not. But you didn't do much else,
1:31:06certainly in PvE. And that's something
1:31:09that's become quite commonplace amongst
1:31:11a lot of the MMOs now is difficulty is
1:31:13kind of antithetical to an MMO audience.
1:31:15They don't really want that. They want a
1:31:16good opportunity to play with fun people
1:31:18and win and get the gear that comes from
1:31:20it. That's the challenge. Uh cuz they're
1:31:23not doing group finder or anything, you
1:31:24know, the the dungeon tool. You'll have
1:31:26to still form your own groups. That's
1:31:27your difficulty. They'll still be
1:31:29challenged. Don't stand in fire or
1:31:30whatever. Uh but you're not looking at
1:31:32like retail hyperfast, you know, button
1:31:34mashing content. It's going to be that
1:31:36it's that classic style of slower combat
1:31:40wanding, deciding when you should cast
1:31:42that heal, you know, that kind of thing
1:31:44is where your choices are going to come
1:31:45from. Which bit more weighty
1:31:49>> it's highly mechanical, which I I really
1:31:51enjoy. You know, you were talking you're
1:31:53talking about about restaurants. I
1:31:54always tell my friends that are
1:31:56interested in WoW and they're shopping
1:31:57between, you know, retailer classic. I'm
1:32:00like, I think about it like cars. Like I
1:32:02like manual cars. I think they're more
1:32:03fun. So, that's how I feel about
1:32:05classic. It feels like it's a more
1:32:07manual, hands-on experience, and retail
1:32:08feels more automatic. You're kind of
1:32:11cruising along. It can do a lot for you
1:32:12if you want it to. And it's definitely
1:32:14just kind of faster and easier.
1:32:16>> And it's that video of Mario 64. There's
1:32:18a guy walking saying, "This is such
1:32:19ass." And there's a dude jumping, having
1:32:21a great time. Like, when you're wanding
1:32:23and you come by a stream and you see
1:32:24somebody wanding a minion,
1:32:27>> your unknowing brain goes, "This game's
1:32:29boring." But while you're playing,
1:32:30you're thinking, "I am making a tactical
1:32:32decision. This man is valuable.
1:32:34>> Exactly. Yes. Yes. That's the thing. I
1:32:36like the nuts and bolts of it. Like one
1:32:38of like one of I love stutterstepping on
1:32:40a hunter. Like I miss minimum range. I
1:32:43like I I I I love being excited that I
1:32:45install the swing timer so that I can
1:32:47stutter step slightly better. Uh I don't
1:32:49miss arrows. They can go straight to
1:32:51hell. But
1:32:53>> I don't know if they confirm they're
1:32:54getting rid of that or where they're
1:32:55keeping that authentic feel. I don't
1:32:57know.
1:32:57>> I can I can live. I've I've played
1:32:59>> I didn't try hunt while I was there.
1:33:01>> But yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's and
1:33:03yeah, I'm really with you on the
1:33:05graphics at Big Hut. I really I really
1:33:06like it. I mean, it's got to be coming
1:33:08to retail, right?
1:33:10>> I have to I mean, it's there in the
1:33:13newer zones, but like they can there's
1:33:15the toggable transmog has to be coming
1:33:17to retail. Although, I suspect I don't
1:33:18know what's your gut feeling on this. I
1:33:20would love for them to release the stats
1:33:21in like 12 months, but I suspect
1:33:25very few people are going to use
1:33:26transmog.
1:33:28Uh certainly if you're doing the latest
1:33:30and greatest content cuz the people get
1:33:31to show off their armor and crowd that
1:33:34whole set.
1:33:35>> I think the more relaxed players will
1:33:36probably use transmog uh who aren't
1:33:38doing that. You know, you do more lone
1:33:39wolf style.
1:33:40>> So transmog's more appealing to those
1:33:42guys. I'm very curious if they'd ever
1:33:44tell us what type of player has this on
1:33:47or off
1:33:48>> cuz I'm I'm transmog off. I don't want
1:33:50it. Uh I I like seeing what people have
1:33:53and I like the feeling of finishing a
1:33:55piece of armor and stuff like that.
1:33:56Yeah, I'm leaning that way, but I'm not
1:33:58sure I'm so I'm so particular. Sometimes
1:34:00I really hate when I look like a
1:34:01particular clown. But but at a higher
1:34:04level, you're absolutely right. Once
1:34:06once once dungeon sets are on the menu,
1:34:08like turn that [ __ ] off. I WANT TO KNOW
1:34:09WHO
1:34:10>> HAS what gear.
1:34:12>> Uh-huh. I agree. I I agree with that.
1:34:14There's something I I always remember
1:34:16like seeing somebody with dreadnaugh
1:34:17puldrons for the first time and I was
1:34:18like, "Oh, even though the rest of the
1:34:20suit was pure [ __ ] circus, just
1:34:23having those puldrons, I was like, "Oh,
1:34:25that [ __ ] guy." And then seeing
1:34:26somebody with like a set, holy, that was
1:34:29like so rare at the time and it was so
1:34:32sick to see that kind of thing walking
1:34:34past you. And uh
1:34:35>> yeah, what about
1:34:36>> what takes away from that a bit?
1:34:38>> What about new character models? Are you
1:34:39going to use updated character models?
1:34:40Going to use the old and busted ones?
1:34:42>> I don't know. Like I always play undead.
1:34:44Uh so probably an undead warrior. I
1:34:46don't they didn't get hit too hard with
1:34:48the updated models. Um like I used to
1:34:51love. I think the Undead are one of the
1:34:53biggest improvements because I always
1:34:54thought that the very jagged rips in
1:34:58their arms to show the bone joints was
1:35:00just extremely cartoony. And so I I like
1:35:02the updated Undead.
1:35:04>> They ruined face belts, man. No, no,
1:35:06they got to bring they got to bring back
1:35:08the proper strap down face.
1:35:12>> I kind of I kind of want to see the like
1:35:16some of them are going to be jank. Some
1:35:18of those old models are going to look
1:35:19stupid. And that's the one to play. If
1:35:22you're going to play an old model, you
1:35:23got to pick the ugliest one, the worst
1:35:25one possible. And just there's some
1:35:27gnomes, bro.
1:35:29>> Dude,
1:35:29>> there's some gnomes that are just bad.
1:35:32And those are the ones you play. You
1:35:34don't want to be like a cute gnome. Get
1:35:36out of here.
1:35:36>> That cursed dwarf face like, oh my god.
1:35:39But but you can attach it to new
1:35:42animations or old animations. That was a
1:35:44crazy feat of work. I'm sure
1:35:46>> that's huge. That had to be such a pain
1:35:48in the ass. Yeah,
1:35:50>> they've gone they've got teams working.
1:35:52I don't know how big that team is now,
1:35:53but that's [ __ ] wild that they went
1:35:55back and did that. That is so much work
1:35:57for
1:35:58not little payoff, but so few people
1:36:00will appreciate it after they switch the
1:36:02toggle.
1:36:03>> Did they have to do it because of the
1:36:04toggle? Is that why they they needed to
1:36:06do it?
1:36:07>> I don't know. Um the best I got out of
1:36:10one of the devs was um once we we
1:36:13realized we could do the toggle, we were
1:36:15all in. like that is how we're going to
1:36:17do it. Like uh it's it's going to work.
1:36:19I was like sick. That's awesome. Um
1:36:21because I I thought it was going to be
1:36:23transmog off. Going back to that, I I
1:36:26was I like two things that you're not
1:36:27going to see in forever. One of them is
1:36:29transmog, but they figured out the
1:36:30toggleable thing. So you got the best of
1:36:31both worlds, which made a lot of people
1:36:33happy. I was fine with that. And flying
1:36:36like that. What what m what things would
1:36:38we wish we never added to the game, you
1:36:39know, like cuz they've got 20 years of
1:36:41knowledge from retail. And flying is the
1:36:43other one. I I would be highly never say
1:36:45never, but I'd be shocked if flying ever
1:36:47comes to Wild Forever. I can't see it
1:36:49ever happening.
1:36:51>> That would be shocking.
1:36:54You know
1:36:55>> that that I think for a lot of people is
1:36:57like the the line of demarcation between
1:37:00how old school WoW felt and
1:37:03everything.
1:37:03>> Yeah. You don't put campfires in where
1:37:05we're hoping you're going to sit and
1:37:06talk and put flying in your game. That
1:37:08makes sense.
1:37:08>> Yeah, I want to know more about that.
1:37:11But I guess it's pretty simple. You sit
1:37:14down, if they have a profession, they
1:37:16drop a node or a a totem essentially
1:37:20that gives out a buff over the course of
1:37:2110 seconds, and then you maybe say hi
1:37:24and split on your merry way.
1:37:26>> Yeah, you you'll get buffs that'll help
1:37:28you. So, they're encouraging you to
1:37:30essentially set up a little workshop is
1:37:32what's you know, you'll get buffs. uh
1:37:34it'll be worth you chilling out and
1:37:35saying hi to people uh doing all that.
1:37:38They're trying to create good choke
1:37:40points for players to congregate
1:37:42throughout the world. The best example
1:37:44which has been totally lost over the
1:37:46last decade plus like the deep run tram.
1:37:48What a phenomenal idea. You it's the
1:37:50most clear and efficient way of moving
1:37:52between two cities, but it also funnels
1:37:54people into one area on foot where
1:37:56they're stood around at their keyboards,
1:37:58right? Some people AFKed on there, but
1:38:00generally you're not. Encourages
1:38:01conversation. It encourages you, you
1:38:03know, it won't happen 100% of the time,
1:38:05but more of that is great. More tunnels,
1:38:08more more trains, more zeppelins. You
1:38:10know, there's hype when you get on those
1:38:12zeppelins at expansion launches and
1:38:13everyone's jumping around and messing
1:38:14around. You bump into people you just do
1:38:16a dungeon with cuz we've got the mega
1:38:18realms now. It's realmless. And you have
1:38:21to think, they talked about it a little
1:38:22bit, is that it will encourage people
1:38:24you probably did a dungeon with
1:38:25yesterday to appear for the next few
1:38:27days and in your shard or whatever.
1:38:30Yeah.
1:38:31I'm I almost sound like they had like an
1:38:33algorithm, but I don't know if that's
1:38:35true. It sounded like if you
1:38:36>> I don't think they tell us. Yeah.
1:38:38>> But they do.
1:38:39>> It s because obviously you'd start
1:38:40gaming it, right? And anyway, you could,
1:38:42but you know, like um Arc Raiders had uh
1:38:46you suck jail. Like if you were
1:38:48ultraaggressive, you would end up with
1:38:50other
1:38:50>> What?
1:38:51>> Yeah. Yeah. If you were just a complete
1:38:53[ __ ] you would end up with other
1:38:55[ __ ] AND SO THEY WERE KIND OF
1:38:57LOCKED in their little zone. And maybe
1:38:59they had a great time. Maybe they loved
1:39:00being [ __ ] together.
1:39:02>> But if you were nice and cooperative,
1:39:03you would play with more cooperative
1:39:04people.
1:39:05>> And the way they described it was if you
1:39:07say you're walking down the street and
1:39:09it's going to like silver almost like a
1:39:10YouTube video be like, I'm going to try
1:39:12this out with two views on this YouTube
1:39:13video. Here you go. And if you give it a
1:39:16little wave, a little watch, they might
1:39:18show you that channel again. That person
1:39:19might show up in your server in the
1:39:21future. And then slowly as you interact,
1:39:23if you are social across this mega
1:39:26realm, it'll develop a smaller mini
1:39:30realm. That's you and your friends.
1:39:33That means there's going to be the
1:39:34yapper realm. Like it might read how
1:39:36many lines of text you type in SL
1:39:39>> and it starts pairing you with more and
1:39:41more people who are also the yappers.
1:39:43>> And you just end up in this realm where
1:39:45it's just one enormous campsite of like
1:39:47travelers who just don't do anything.
1:39:49They just sit and yap at each other
1:39:50constantly. That would be hilarious.
1:39:52>> You'd be within the bots, though. The
1:39:53gold sellers would all be there for
1:39:55talking too much.
1:39:56>> Yeah.
1:39:56>> Technically, the bots would end up
1:39:58naturally gravitated away from the rest
1:40:00of real players,
1:40:02>> right?
1:40:03>> Yeah. Since they're not interactive.
1:40:05>> Yeah. If they could if they could build
1:40:07something to to recognize that behavior
1:40:09and group them, then Yeah. Yeah. It's
1:40:11just a bunch of
1:40:13>> It would be such a good way of solving
1:40:15bots that are trying to scam people. is
1:40:17like, "Oh, you use trade all the time."
1:40:19Well, you're going to be put with other
1:40:21people on the realm who also use trade
1:40:23chat all the time relentlessly and more
1:40:25people. So, all the bots naturally just
1:40:28end up in their own realm spamming at
1:40:30each other and not bothering anybody.
1:40:33That's kind of wild. What a great
1:40:34solution to the bot problem.
1:40:37I like that a lot.
1:40:39>> Oh man, that that would be interesting.
1:40:41Yeah. Which means we're going to have
1:40:43introvert realms where a lot of people
1:40:44and no one's talking.
1:40:45>> Yeah. Yeah, if you slash if you ignore
1:40:47people on the regular, you get put with
1:40:49other people who also put people on
1:40:50ignore on the regular and it's just the
1:40:52dead silent realm. It's like the land of
1:40:54the mute and then nobody talks to each
1:40:56other. They still play together, but
1:40:58they do not speak and everybody's on
1:40:59ignore all the time.
1:41:01>> A realm of nothing but guild. Will you
1:41:03join my guild spammers?
1:41:05>> That's what I'm saying. But if they can
1:41:07figure a way of funneling them to their
1:41:08own shard and they're doing it to
1:41:10themselves, they'll have to come up with
1:41:12crazy bots that don't say more than like
1:41:13three messages per minute. I have to try
1:41:15and figure out the algorithm. But I do
1:41:17like that idea. Um, I mean, it's still
1:41:20disconnected by region, which kind of
1:41:22sucks because while I was there, a lot
1:41:24of the NA people want to play together,
1:41:25but obviously the EU want to play
1:41:26together. And it doesn't actually matter
1:41:28now in terms of latency, obviously.
1:41:30>> Uh, but I think I'm probably going to
1:41:32stay on EU. Stay with my brethren that
1:41:34are awake at my times. Kind of sad.
1:41:37>> No,
1:41:38>> I'm not doing two classic style
1:41:39characters. That's that's like a
1:41:40lifelong commitment I'm not prepared to
1:41:42make. I really hope at some point they
1:41:44figure out a way to break down that
1:41:45wall.
1:41:46>> Oh, just let me buy a boost.
1:41:50>> Well, hang on now, Mr. Slippery.
1:41:53>> I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking.
1:41:54>> Might as well have flying. Yeah. Well,
1:41:56we got trade post coming next. I the the
1:42:00server and the new and the forever. I
1:42:02guess all three of those factors is
1:42:04where I saw all the youngans getting on
1:42:07board. Like Twitter, I just saw a lot of
1:42:09people, a lot of streamers being like,
1:42:10I've never played this. I've seen I saw
1:42:13my dad play it once. I don't have any
1:42:15association, but finally
1:42:18a moment to get involved.
1:42:22>> Yep. We can go to I'm hoping to play
1:42:24with my brother. I haven't played with
1:42:26my brother in
1:42:3015 years cuz he plays classic. I play
1:42:33retail and I went off to mythic raid so
1:42:35we didn't get to play together. Uh so
1:42:37this is that opportunity to be able to
1:42:38do that. like there's so many people I
1:42:40can reconnect with and I hope I'm hoping
1:42:42it's not got like a hard mode cuz I'll
1:42:44be tempted to do it. Uh and there's so
1:42:46many people over the years that are
1:42:49really fun to play with but they also
1:42:51suck and you end up leaving them behind
1:42:54you know like when you're raiding and
1:42:55stuff and that sucks cuz we didn't have
1:42:57that in classic. In classic like even in
1:42:592004 you could have a good 15 people in
1:43:02that 40man raid who [ __ ] sucked but
1:43:03were really funny and it was fine. It
1:43:06was totally okay. No problem.
1:43:09>> You guys are the right sizes, though.
1:43:11>> Uh, well, Kyle and I were both stoked
1:43:13about 10 man. I think that's our our
1:43:14personal favorite size. It's it's
1:43:17manageable. It's accomplishable.
1:43:20And I think Kyle, you and I both just
1:43:22have an ass ton of nostalgia for
1:43:24Karazan.
1:43:25>> Yeah. And CC still works. Like, there's
1:43:27still a tactical pull involved, which is
1:43:29what I'm really kind of crazy about in
1:43:31that old style.
1:43:32>> It's more manageable, too. like CC's
1:43:34important in a 10 man.
1:43:37>> I think they are going to 40 as well,
1:43:38right? Didn't they announce that they're
1:43:40>> uh 10, 20, and 40?
1:43:43>> They've already said that on December
1:43:449th, there's like um two new raids. The
1:43:47bareps, which is going to be a 10-man,
1:43:49the new hydro raid, which is going to be
1:43:50a 20man, and Enixia, I think, just as we
1:43:52know it. Like normal 40man Enixia is
1:43:54going to be in the game. I don't know if
1:43:56I if they said they're making any
1:43:57changes. I didn't hear about anything.
1:43:59>> Yeah, one-off bosses I think is fine as
1:44:00folman. You're not looking to make a
1:44:02Volman guild. like we can you can crew
1:44:04in, you can book some people all
1:44:05>> what I'm what I'm curious about is that
1:44:08like they showed that uh road map in the
1:44:10summer that just says revamped iconic
1:44:12raid. I'm just like
1:44:13>> yeah it's molten core, dude. It's
1:44:15absolutely molten core. It's it's 20
1:44:17manol core and it's going to be all new
1:44:18and I can't [ __ ] wait cuz I did do
1:44:21classic molten core and I was like
1:44:24>> yeah I still know every mechanic here. I
1:44:25know every layout. I know every trash
1:44:26mob. Yeah, Jesse, what if Ragnaros has
1:44:30an absolute banging ass?
1:44:33>> You don't play Cacism? We've seen his
1:44:35ass.
1:44:35>> I would say too soon
1:44:39for that ass. And And then Yeah. I MEAN,
1:44:42AS WE KNOW, HOLD ON. HOLD ON. Um I
1:44:46played Firelands.
1:44:48>> Mhm.
1:44:48>> Dude does have an ass.
1:44:50>> Yes, sir.
1:44:50>> Little tiny little tiny ass with little
1:44:53tiny legs. Goofy little legs. But yeah,
1:44:56it's there. You want to have an
1:44:57Overwatch ass like designed by the head
1:44:59of Overwatch.
1:45:00>> That would be so funny if it was like
1:45:02>> keep this swirly fire but you know make
1:45:04two little swirly fire butt cheeks.
1:45:06>> Guest designer. Oh yeah.
1:45:11>> Guest visitor from the Overwatch team.
1:45:13>> Original Tracer artist.
1:45:14>> I uh
1:45:15>> Yeah.
1:45:15>> Yeah. I'm I'm excited to see what they
1:45:17do. I hope that with the raids. One of
1:45:21my favorite experiences before I left
1:45:23WoW was when they brought back Molten
1:45:26Core for a little bit and going through
1:45:28that with people who had never done old
1:45:30content and getting I don't know four
1:45:32bosses in and I remember in chat some
1:45:35guy saying wow this is amazing. I guess
1:45:38we're almost at the end huh
1:45:44>> and it was just like
1:45:45>> oh
1:45:47no you're here for another three hours.
1:45:49Yeah, don't worry. We have to run all
1:45:51the way back later, which is a really
1:45:53cool.
1:45:54>> I want that experience. They showed in
1:45:55the in uh one of the footage things, one
1:45:58of the reels they had like Altter
1:46:00Valley.
1:46:01Are we getting old ass Alterak Valley?
1:46:04>> Seems like it
1:46:05>> was like it's going to take all day to
1:46:07play cuz that's the [ __ ] I'd be here
1:46:09for.
1:46:10>> They were sleep and it's still the same
1:46:12run is still going. You wake up is wild
1:46:15by modern standards, but was so normal
1:46:17back then. Oh, we've summoned the tree
1:46:19four times and it's still going.
1:46:22>> I look forward to
1:46:23>> experience.
1:46:24>> I look forward to Preach's stream titled
1:46:26this stream ends when this Alterak
1:46:28Valley game ends.
1:46:29>> Bro, that turns into a subathon right
1:46:31quick. Uh
1:46:32>> yeah,
1:46:32>> I I have the timer runs out.
1:46:35>> I'll throw you a few.
1:46:38>> Yeah, just people keeping me in there
1:46:39for like a week. Oh my god, I will win
1:46:44and then you lose. It's how are they
1:46:46going to do that? they'd have to make
1:46:47intentionally inefficient to try and
1:46:49cheese it. So, I hope they got some
1:46:51ideas or they'll have force checkpoints.
1:46:52You know, they've got to break down this
1:46:54barrier.
1:46:54>> I'm so Yeah, I'm so excited for what
1:46:57they're coming up with cuz
1:46:59>> it's all fresh. That's what I'm excited
1:47:00about. I don't really care. And even if
1:47:02it sucks, I'm probably going to have a
1:47:04good time finding out it sucks. Does
1:47:05that make sense?
1:47:06>> Yeah.
1:47:06>> Yes. Really good time finding out that
1:47:08this actually [ __ ] sucks. Uh, and
1:47:10that's fine.
1:47:11>> I mean, there's
1:47:11>> I'm sure people made lifelong friends at
1:47:13the fire festival.
1:47:17Then the ability to just like throw a
1:47:19cool talent in there. Like I get jingle
1:47:20ball like prayer of mending. That's one
1:47:22of the best spells ever. Like I it and
1:47:24so much better than light well. Maybe I
1:47:26get light well for free now while I
1:47:27level.
1:47:28>> Mhm. You are you leveling as holy?
1:47:31That's
1:47:32>> what I do. That's what I did.
1:47:34>> Yeah, I I also did that
1:47:35>> and it was miserable. So when they
1:47:37announced that the staffs that gave
1:47:39healing will also give spell damage, I
1:47:41thought about it. I have now considered
1:47:43doing it again, but sweet.
1:47:48>> If you're going priest, that's great. I
1:47:50I played priest at Blizzcon. I will say
1:47:54melee DPS, if any trash pull goes longer
1:47:56than 2 minutes, are just the best thing
1:47:59to have in the [ __ ] world. I played
1:48:01with five mana users, it was brutal if
1:48:04that fight went on for more than 30
1:48:05seconds and everybody was just out of
1:48:07mana. Uh some people didn't know you
1:48:09could wand. And I was like, "Oh, please
1:48:10God, get me out of here."
1:48:12>> For the love of God.
1:48:14>> For the love of God. Some We played with
1:48:15a shadow priest. He's like, "Dude, I've
1:48:17mana potted every trash pack." And he
1:48:19was
1:48:20>> I kind of want to do a shadow priest cuz
1:48:22I imagine that'll be like hard mode.
1:48:26>> H I don't think so.
1:48:27>> Shadow priest was never a little bit.
1:48:29>> It's not classic, right? It's classic.
1:48:31Plus, you got to remember that they have
1:48:32there's like new spells that came from
1:48:34the burning crusader and wrath of the
1:48:34Lich King in some of the classes. The
1:48:36racials are reworked. Uh, the Skyborn
1:48:39have like a mana and health regen ratio
1:48:42ability which is really cool. Uh,
1:48:44>> they said anything about multi-spec or
1:48:47we do an old school.
1:48:48>> I don't know if they mentioned dual
1:48:49speech and stuff cuz I'm going
1:48:50>> find it. Yeah.
1:48:52>> Yeah. I don't know if they said or not.
1:48:53>> I went looking. I couldn't find
1:48:54anything. I didn't watch every single
1:48:56panel, but
1:48:58>> they had one. I had to do the meet and
1:48:59greet during one of the panels. So, I
1:49:00missed out on quite a few little
1:49:01details.
1:49:02>> Like, uh, dual stack is there. My chat's
1:49:04confirmed we have dual stack. Okay,
1:49:05that's that's a big change.
1:49:08>> That's huge.
1:49:09>> Shaman straight up just rocks Riptide at
1:49:12level 30 at like the 31 skill. That's
1:49:15busted. That was That's like all your
1:49:18heels be amazing. Enjoy. So, you know,
1:49:22I'm glad they have stuff like that.
1:49:23That'll change the way rest of shaman
1:49:25are. You'll want them in your raid.
1:49:28>> Oh, yeah. No, you can nuke yourself with
1:49:30uh the shadow word death if you ever got
1:49:33to enjoy that. If you go shadow priest,
1:49:35just get hit in the face by your own
1:49:36spell. That was classic.
1:49:37>> Looking like dual spec is confirmed.
1:49:40>> Okay, that that's a that's a really big
1:49:42change.
1:49:43>> That's pretty cool.
1:49:45>> Damn.
1:49:46>> I don't know how I feel about that.
1:49:48>> I don't know.
1:49:48>> I think you should feel about that.
1:49:50>> Yeah, I think I think you should live
1:49:51your dreams.
1:49:52>> I guess I'm fine with it.
1:49:53>> Or if I play Alliance,
1:49:58some awful version of a paladin. I don't
1:50:00know. I don't know who. What are the new
1:50:03awful versions? Are there more?
1:50:05>> I don't know. I don't know. But like,
1:50:07you know, some some sort of [ __ ] rat
1:50:10pal, you know?
1:50:12>> Oh, a classic paladin. You want to role
1:50:15play as a paladin was what you're
1:50:16saying?
1:50:16>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like I don't
1:50:19know, man. I'm very interested. But
1:50:22there's a lot of options. And I feel
1:50:23like either I go with what I know and
1:50:26see what's different or I try something
1:50:28I've never tried and go from there and
1:50:31like start fresh. I have no clue.
1:50:33>> Repelli might not be a meme. I' I
1:50:35freaking love meme ass. I love how jank
1:50:38Paladin is. I know they're going to fix
1:50:40it and I'm I'm quite excited about
1:50:41Undead Paladin, so I'm probably going to
1:50:43play it, but I also
1:50:45Oh, I kind of love how shitty Paladin
1:50:47used to be. I got to be more special
1:50:48than that, man. I I got that hipster
1:50:50bone in my body. I can't be walking
1:50:52around as an undead paladin. That's just
1:50:54>> I don't give a [ __ ]
1:50:57I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it.
1:50:59Watch me. Unless Kyle, you decide that
1:51:02we're playing Alliance. I'm letting Kyle
1:51:03decide our faction.
1:51:06>> I mean, you know, the realm's really
1:51:08big. Like, I could be influenced by
1:51:10Jesse. You know, I'm I'm a free I'm a
1:51:12free elf. You know, I can't decide where
1:51:14I'm going. I'm I'm a troll at heart. I
1:51:17love being taller than everybody, but
1:51:19only when I stretch my back. I enjoy
1:51:21that a lot.
1:51:22>> Kind of. I'm I'm definitely going to be
1:51:24a troll. That's That's happening. I just
1:51:26don't know in what way.
1:51:29>> I mean, you're a troll in everyday life,
1:51:31Jesse. You're our favorite troll.
1:51:33>> Oh, that's real. You're right. That is
1:51:35true.
1:51:36>> You're just You're just a natural.
1:51:37You're a living, breathing troll.
1:51:39>> Yeah. Troll amongst men.
1:51:40>> Yo, stop it. You're right.
1:51:46>> Did anything rub you the wrong way,
1:51:47Jesse? any anything about Wow Forever
1:51:49rub you the wrong way?
1:51:51>> Um, no. Uh, well, okay, that's a lie. I
1:51:56uh I don't like that when I went to go I
1:51:58was like, "Oh, I wonder uh how much this
1:52:00will cost in order to go buy." So, I
1:52:02went online to go see what was up and
1:52:04every single one of them was like, "Do
1:52:06you just want to buy these elves? Hey,
1:52:08how about these elves? You like these
1:52:09guys, right? You want to buy?" I was
1:52:10like, "No, I don't care. I will not play
1:52:12them. I don't even want to interact with
1:52:14them really. I don't like them and I
1:52:17don't have to like them. Just give me
1:52:19the game. I was like, I don't want all
1:52:21these extra things. I'm not trying to
1:52:23get a pet. I'm not trying to get
1:52:25bonuses. Then you're good.
1:52:26>> You don't have to buy it.
1:52:28>> That is such a It's a marketing fail.
1:52:31Like they could have sold this as a
1:52:33game.
1:52:34>> They could have easily done that. And
1:52:35they there's two there's another way
1:52:36they could have got about this which is
1:52:38like and Warcraft Forever is going to be
1:52:41half the price of a normal WoW expansion
1:52:44at $30. And people would have been so
1:52:47happy. Instead they did a better deal
1:52:50which is it's just part of your sub. You
1:52:52don't need to pay a penny more. If you
1:52:54want this race it's got to be $30 which
1:52:56helps pay for that massive team. It's a
1:52:59really good deal and people are really
1:53:01pissed because oh you pay wall to race
1:53:03where they could have just sold it as a
1:53:05game and people would have been fine
1:53:06with it for the same price like oh you
1:53:08get this for $30 and done it cheaper.
1:53:10It's just honestly it's a marketing fail
1:53:12from my point of view.
1:53:13>> Yeah. I'm not mad at people who want to
1:53:16buy a race or do whatever. I'm more like
1:53:18I went online to go cuz I wasn't aware
1:53:22that this was just a oh you if you have
1:53:23a WoW subscription you're good. So, I
1:53:25went online to go buy this thing because
1:53:28again, my computer died right as this
1:53:30announcement was happening. So, I had no
1:53:33clue. I went online to go look and I
1:53:35couldn't find any information except for
1:53:37buy these these this like collector's
1:53:40things and all these and I was like, but
1:53:42I just I just want the game, man. And
1:53:45so, uh yeah, that was just hard for me
1:53:47to find that that's it was just No, no,
1:53:49you have it. It's fine.
1:53:52>> Okay.
1:53:53I I
1:53:54>> mean it's actually a really really good
1:53:55deal that people are mad about and I'm
1:53:57like it sucks cuz they got the messaging
1:53:59so wrong
1:54:00>> uh with
1:54:01>> Yeah. I mean I'm sure they mentioned it.
1:54:02I definitely didn't catch it during the
1:54:04initial opening ceremony presentation. I
1:54:06did the same thing. I went I immediately
1:54:07went to the Blizzard store to be like
1:54:09all right well how much does this damn
1:54:10thing cost? And I was like is it is it
1:54:1230? And then I was like wait wait wait a
1:54:13minute no that's just blue elves. So
1:54:18what the hell is And then I realized
1:54:19it's just included with your with your
1:54:20uh subscription, which I am happy about.
1:54:23I think that's a I think that's a win.
1:54:25>> Um, yeah. Is anyone particularly like
1:54:29angry that there's a new elf race
1:54:33>> and elves are trash and anyone who plays
1:54:35elves is trash people, but like
1:54:37>> Wow. Well, that's the last time you'll
1:54:39ever be joining us, Jesse. Thank you so
1:54:40much. Being an elf, have you seen Gary?
1:54:43>> Elves are trash. I adore being an elf.
1:54:47Love being an original member of the
1:54:49Horde. Our prettiest race were dead
1:54:51people and then y'all started coming in
1:54:54with elves and [ __ ] No,
1:54:57>> I disagree.
1:54:58>> I disagree. Lady trolls are gorgeous. I
1:55:00think lady trolls have always been
1:55:02gorgeous.
1:55:03>> And that's You know what? And that's why
1:55:04we tolerate you.
1:55:05>> You're hurting Mike. Oh my god.
1:55:07>> They have a terrible run animation
1:55:08though, which is why I never play one.
1:55:10Their run animation.
1:55:11>> We tolerate you because you appreciate
1:55:13the classics. But
1:55:15>> okay,
1:55:15>> just know no one wants an elf as part of
1:55:18the horde. Not none of us.
1:55:20>> At least it's not Kyrion, dude. At least
1:55:22it's not Kyrion. Like, cuz that was
1:55:25scary when that popped up. I was like,
1:55:27please God, no. Are we making Are they
1:55:29trying to make Shadowlands extra cannon?
1:55:33No.
1:55:34>> That is the closest thing I come to.
1:55:36Like, I don't even mind like the the
1:55:38blue elves, but like their their zone
1:55:40looks just a little too close to
1:55:42Shadowlands for me. And I'm like, "Oh, I
1:55:43just don't want any of that energy. I
1:55:45don't want any of it."
1:55:46>> Oh, it is pretty darn
1:55:47>> I was just told we were putting the war
1:55:50back in Warcraft and then you showed me
1:55:52something that kind of reminds me of
1:55:53Shadow,
1:55:54>> dude.
1:55:54>> They can never say that. All
1:55:57>> time. STOP SAYING IT.
1:56:00>> STOP SAYING IT.
1:56:02>> THEY'VE NEVER done it.
1:56:04>> Don't Don't be mad at me.
1:56:06>> They get like I don't You can't keep
1:56:09saying it. Every every Blizzcon you're
1:56:11going to say we're putting the war even
1:56:12if it's a goof. They need to remove that
1:56:15from It must be banned. Never say that
1:56:18again. Never talk about war and
1:56:21Warcraft. Don't even mention it. Shut up
1:56:23about it.
1:56:24>> What are you going to do?
1:56:26>> It sounds goofy.
1:56:27>> Ignore it cuz it's full of [ __ ] and I'm
1:56:28probably going to pay a PvE realm
1:56:30because that's where all my audience
1:56:31wants to play. PvP is so stressful. I
1:56:35love it. Oh, I just I just said I can't
1:56:37wait to play with my brother for the
1:56:38first time in 15 years. You text me
1:56:40we're going PvP Alliance. I'm like,
1:56:42well, [ __ ] that then.
1:56:45>> That's that's that's screwed. Oh well,
1:56:48>> that's too much variance in whether I'm
1:56:51going to have a good time tonight or
1:56:52not.
1:56:52>> Yeah, my time's too valuable now. That's
1:56:54the problem.
1:56:55>> Yeah. Yeah. If I wanted to PvP, but I
1:56:58don't want
1:56:58>> 100%. I agree. But that that is 100%
1:57:02something I only had time for in my 20s.
1:57:04I just want to get on the boat, man. I
1:57:07don't want to have to sneak around you.
1:57:08I'm just trying to get on the boat.
1:57:11>> Oh, the download started. Is that
1:57:12correct?
1:57:13>> Well, beta's tomorrow, so
1:57:16>> yeah, I haven't got it yet. I'm hoping
1:57:18Blizzard's going to send me a code
1:57:19because I'm a cheap [ __ ] but if not,
1:57:20I'll
1:57:20>> Oh. Oh, I am I immediately plop down
1:57:23money for the elves and the Warcraft 3
1:57:25campaign because I was like, well, I'm
1:57:26going to play the Warcraft 3 campaign
1:57:27anyway.
1:57:28>> I saw a lot of people mad about them not
1:57:30being high elves, but I don't think you
1:57:31can lead you. You need to
1:57:33>> I think that would have made people more
1:57:34mad.
1:57:35>> Yeah. I think you need to lead with
1:57:36something that feels so optional and at
1:57:38least partially disconnected even though
1:57:40they did some work to be like, "Oh, it's
1:57:42where Thunder Fury's from." And you
1:57:43know, Chris Matson always thought about
1:57:45these sky elves. Like, no. No. You had
1:57:47to just shoot for the fences a bit and
1:57:51let people know that everything coming
1:57:52out, much like the quests, can be
1:57:54ignored.
1:57:56>> Is Is there anything you're hoping for
1:57:58from this? Like I've got a list of like
1:58:00I would love to haves like indivi uh
1:58:03like individual class campaigns like we
1:58:05had the benediction quest for the priest
1:58:07in vanilla. We had rockar for the
1:58:09hunters. Those
1:58:10>> those sort of like immersive
1:58:12singleplayer experiences that you can go
1:58:14on.
1:58:14>> That's some of my favorite content
1:58:15that's ever been put into World of
1:58:17Warcraft. And I include in that way down
1:58:19the line Legion like the the the class
1:58:22order hall campaigns were some of the
1:58:24best things
1:58:25>> ever freaking done. Uh, and I will even
1:58:27like bring in a little bit of of uh
1:58:29Final Fantasy 14 because job quests,
1:58:32some some of them are incredible.
1:58:35They're not all created equal, but some
1:58:37of them are very very good and it's one
1:58:39of the big pieces of content in Final
1:58:40Fantasy 14 that I missed since they went
1:58:42to roll quests. They're a little too
1:58:44homogenized in my opinion. Yeah, I'm
1:58:47really hoping for that because I think
1:58:49they hinted, you know, there's going to
1:58:51be a lot of mystery and discovery like,
1:58:53you know, they've obviously learned from
1:58:54season of discovery that people kind of
1:58:55dig on this stuff and the new class. Do
1:58:57you'd think they're going to be like,
1:59:00oh, uh, so who came up with a Chris
1:59:02actually, uh, my editor came up with an
1:59:04amazing idea. Either the classes are
1:59:07going to be something different than
1:59:07retailing like bards or something like
1:59:09that or they could really go immersive
1:59:11and he's like what if if you play
1:59:14hardcore and you manage to get to level
1:59:1655 and you die that unlocks DK on your
1:59:21>> forever account. That was the original
1:59:23idea for DK and I thought that was so
1:59:25cool and I I'm hoping at like maybe
1:59:29years down the road they decide to to
1:59:32flip that switch. I also assume they're
1:59:33going to like really hardcore go
1:59:35revisionist history and I'm like so I'm
1:59:38wondering if we're going to Northrren
1:59:39before Outland.
1:59:40>> Well, it's non-cannon, right? So, they
1:59:41could do whatever they want. They
1:59:42confirmed
1:59:43>> it's my my greatest like fantasy is they
1:59:45do what was promised in the beta long
1:59:48ago, which was and I think this is kind
1:59:50of what you're hinting at, but like each
1:59:53race class combo had a hero. And so back
1:59:58in the day, if you were going to be a
2:00:00warrior undead, you could unlock death
2:00:02knight. If you were going to be a hunter
2:00:04and you were uh night elf, you could get
2:00:07demon hunter. Um I believe a dwarf
2:00:10warrior was a mountain king. They like
2:00:13weren't like were like that's what they
2:00:14were thinking about doing. And I would
2:00:17love if they finally made that happen if
2:00:19it was like
2:00:20>> Yeah, because they kind of have that
2:00:20with hero classes, right? It'd be like
2:00:22the theane for the warriors that's based
2:00:24on those.
2:00:25>> Oh, that makes sense. That's cool.
2:00:27>> I like that. And so each like combo it
2:00:29would require a ton of work. It probably
2:00:31never would happen, but I love the idea
2:00:33of
2:00:35>> that kind of like, oh yeah, you know,
2:00:37you can be uh, you know, a witch doctor
2:00:40as a troll. I don't know, priest, right?
2:00:43Troll priest. Like there's different
2:00:45ways to expand on it. And I think that'd
2:00:47be fun.
2:00:48>> I think so, too, because I don't think
2:00:49they want you to have a probably a lot
2:00:51of buttons. It is pretty similar to just
2:00:53classic right now. Uh where you only use
2:00:55a few of the buttons. Uh at least we got
2:00:56we only got to play level 38 characters
2:00:58like uh so we got to look at the talent
2:01:00trees and that was kind of it. Uh as to
2:01:02where it'll go in the future, but it
2:01:04seems they're very much leaning into
2:01:06racials. So that kind of lends credence
2:01:08to your proposal there cuz racials
2:01:10really matter in classic. They're being
2:01:13revamped and made very very strong.
2:01:15>> Yeah, they look really cool. Also,
2:01:17>> yeah, I haven't even looked at what the
2:01:18Forsaken new racial is actually.
2:01:21I'm nerding. This is what I'm nerding
2:01:24like.
2:01:24>> Right. Yeah. This
2:01:26I I don't know. Well, actually, I do
2:01:28know about about your history, Jesse,
2:01:30but I don't know everyone's history with
2:01:32like WoW podcasts, but that's what got
2:01:34me into content creation. Like, I never
2:01:36watched a YouTube channel. Twitch didn't
2:01:38even exist when I started listening to
2:01:40gaming content. It was freaking Wow
2:01:41podcasts, and that's what this sounds
2:01:43like. Ah, I'm so excited.
2:01:45>> Yeah, Touch of the Grave is really cool.
2:01:47You get that 5% chance to drain 5%. Like
2:01:50that's the that's the crunchy random
2:01:51stuff. And I hope that more my big hope
2:01:54would be that there's more things like
2:01:55priest racials. Those were so cool.
2:01:58Granted, dwarf took the cake with the
2:02:01fear ward. I think it was called where
2:02:03they could nullify a fear back in
2:02:05classic, but
2:02:06>> yeah, fear ward's night elf now. I think
2:02:08they've moved that over.
2:02:09>> Really? Wow.
2:02:10>> Yeah, I think so. I think the night
2:02:11elves priests had fear ward. Uh
2:02:14>> I know that uh devouring plague is now
2:02:17like baked into priest. though. Mhm.
2:02:19>> Which makes sense cuz that's a valuable
2:02:20part of their shadow rotation.
2:02:24>> Okay. It looks Sorry, I'm nerding.
2:02:28So, that stays the same. All right,
2:02:30cool.
2:02:32H there's so much of this stuff going
2:02:34on, but I really want them to lean into
2:02:35the RPG stuff. It's what they tried to
2:02:37do in Shadowlands, ironically. Uh, but
2:02:40this is a fresh start, so they can lean
2:02:42slower and more into these sort of
2:02:44mysteries and quest lines and really
2:02:46play and have fun with it. I did want to
2:02:48bring up with you guys, they said
2:02:50changes to the game are going to be
2:02:52communitydriven. Do you suspect it's
2:02:54going to be like Runescape with a voting
2:02:56system?
2:02:58>> How does that work over there?
2:03:00>> It's in game. you get a message saying
2:03:02currently there's a community vote up
2:03:04for some change to the game and as long
2:03:08as you've been playing for a certain
2:03:09amount of time, you obviously can't make
2:03:10new characters to cheese it. Uh is your
2:03:12account is eligible to pledge a vote and
2:03:14whether you want this change or not.
2:03:18>> Oh, interesting. I I wonder if you can
2:03:21use that for toxicity as well because
2:03:23like um in Dota back in the day, you
2:03:25could sort of be elected uh
2:03:28representative and your reports had more
2:03:30weight if you helped get rid of more
2:03:32cheaters and more toxic people.
2:03:35>> That'd be cool if you could kind of like
2:03:36ascend in the voting.
2:03:39>> Yeah, sure.
2:03:41I like the idea of community feedback,
2:03:44but I also
2:03:47am curious the way. So, like, as we all
2:03:50know, most people who play MMOs are not
2:03:54hardcore raiders. So, if something comes
2:03:57along that the hardcore raid community
2:03:59wants, but the average player doesn't,
2:04:03but it would only affect the hardcore
2:04:05raiders.
2:04:07How does that like what's the how does
2:04:09that get resolved?
2:04:11>> Have you ever test?
2:04:12>> I think Runescape's like 80% approval is
2:04:14required. It has to be 80% positive or
2:04:16it's considered a no. Like so you can't
2:04:19>> fudge it, you know? It's not like oh
2:04:21it's 51 to 49. That doesn't work. It has
2:04:23to be an overwhelmingly wanted thing by
2:04:25the community
2:04:27>> to have something in.
2:04:28>> Try something.
2:04:29>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
2:04:30>> Yeah.
2:04:31>> I I can't think of
2:04:33Yeah. Like and Chad's going off about
2:04:36how that'd be terrible for that
2:04:37community. I think it would be a
2:04:38terrible idea in most games I can think
2:04:41of. Like 14 would probably be at each
2:04:43other's throats. But I love apples to
2:04:45apples. Have you ever played that card
2:04:48game where you try to convince everyone
2:04:50that your complete [ __ ] answer is
2:04:53the right one? Like I would love to see
2:04:54the grassroots community campaigns that
2:04:57develop in order to promote certain
2:04:59changes.
2:05:01>> Huh. Yeah. I don't even know if they'd
2:05:03be big changes. It might be like, do you
2:05:04want trispec? Like, does the community
2:05:07want this or not? You know, we're
2:05:08getting dual spec. Do you want all
2:05:10three? So, it's more like retail where
2:05:11you can just swap on a dime or no.
2:05:14>> Does time matter? Do we want to revisit
2:05:16this in 12 months? Whatever it could be.
2:05:19>> Yeah. It's it's uh I don't think it's
2:05:21got to be like, do you want a new raid
2:05:23or a new leveling zone? Like, that's not
2:05:25kind of the thing. That's just content
2:05:27they're making. It'll be more like
2:05:28subtle changes that you want. Uh, so who
2:05:31knows? But that's that's what they're
2:05:33saying. They're going to let it be
2:05:34communitydriven and they're obviously
2:05:36drawing heavily on Runescape for the
2:05:38design. So
2:05:40I'm curious to see what the WoW
2:05:41community would be like cuz we couldn't
2:05:42even agree on building the mage tower in
2:05:44Legion. And then people would stand next
2:05:46to the [ __ ] table saying, "You better
2:05:48vote for the mage tower." And then if if
2:05:50the number and they would watch and if
2:05:52the number went the other way, they'd be
2:05:53like, "Fuck." Right? Like I hate you.
2:05:56>> Stop voting for what you like and get
2:05:58with the meta, dude. like this is what
2:06:00we need.
2:06:01>> I mean, I wouldn't I wouldn't mind more
2:06:03of the drama around World of Warcraft
2:06:05being about the actual game and not just
2:06:06the damn personalities around it. So,
2:06:08that actually sounds a bit refreshing.
2:06:10>> Yeah, I want I I love infighting. I love
2:06:12guild versus guild drama. Like, it's I
2:06:14mean, I made a show out of it for 12
2:06:15years. Like, it's the best. There's
2:06:18nothing better than just letting people
2:06:19be people, and you need to promote the
2:06:21atmosphere for people to do.
2:06:22>> That's what I like about you, Mike. You
2:06:23let your biases be known. You're just
2:06:25like this. This is my bias. That's a
2:06:28living, breathing world. It can't all be
2:06:30sunshine and roses and we're all double
2:06:31dutching each other. [ __ ] no. Like I
2:06:34want conflicts with people. That builds
2:06:36a world I'm a part of. I want to that
2:06:38gives you an emotional connection.
2:06:39>> Putting the war and the bad is
2:06:41necessary.
2:06:42>> Yeah. And it's actually just drama
2:06:44amongst players, right? Go.
2:06:47>> That's all.
2:06:48>> It's going to be like Dark Age of
2:06:49Camelot. Somebody's going to get
2:06:51promoted to like hero of the realm and
2:06:53stuff, right?
2:06:54So, they're just better than you and
2:06:56stronger than you and larger than you
2:06:57and they can just kill you. Uh, it's got
2:06:59to be like that. What was that? Star
2:07:00Wars, was it? Battlefront 2 where you
2:07:02could just become Darth Vader and kill
2:07:03everybody like this. You get
2:07:05>> Yeah, you get a buff like that and you
2:07:06just become the warlord.
2:07:08>> Got weirdly into that. I was absolutely
2:07:09cracked at the Mustafar level and I
2:07:11would I could become Anakin so fast and
2:07:13I would just mop that map. It was great.
2:07:17>> This game is really fun. Everybody else
2:07:19is having the worst time you can
2:07:21possibly imagine. like you're like
2:07:23having the greatest time. Just one guy
2:07:25having good times. Uh but it does bring
2:07:28us to galaxies
2:07:30>> like you were saying earlier like I
2:07:31wonder if they're going to draw
2:07:32inspiration from there where there's
2:07:34like Jesse was saying earlier is like
2:07:35certain class combos is certain people
2:07:37can sense something and it's a community
2:07:39effort of unlocking things. God, there's
2:07:41so much they could do with this rebirth
2:07:44that would be I'm so excited.
2:07:46>> How long are they going to not kill
2:07:50Arthus? Like how long do they keep
2:07:53Arthus on the frozen throne as the
2:07:55timeline,
2:07:56>> right? This isn't pre-coling of
2:07:58Stratholme, right?
2:08:00>> No, because Strath Strathome will have
2:08:02already because the dungeons that exist
2:08:04are still going to be in the game. Like
2:08:06vanilla dungeons are still going to be
2:08:08in this and so Strathol will still be a
2:08:10total decimated, you know, heap.
2:08:12>> See, I was Yeah, I wanted to see that
2:08:14diversion of something like that is
2:08:15Arthus did not call Stratholme and
2:08:17Lordon was still alive and kicking, so
2:08:20to speak. They set Caverns of Time on
2:08:22stage, which I thought was interesting
2:08:25because that's a pretty big piece of
2:08:28content that ended up affecting the
2:08:29game. They also kind of seemed like
2:08:31Molten Core, they're going to hold off
2:08:33on that for a bit. They really wanted to
2:08:35focus on this year one of WoW as it
2:08:38released and then have that be some sort
2:08:40of big call to action climax.
2:08:42>> Yeah.
2:08:43>> Yeah. I mean, we've got so much more to
2:08:45I'm happy about that, right? It's like
2:08:46retail. You don't want the raid released
2:08:48straight away. You want to enjoy the
2:08:49game for a while before you start
2:08:50getting into that. And we've got raids
2:08:52to go. And we got new zones like Hyal's
2:08:55there and there's a bunch of other zones
2:08:57that are all new to explore. And then we
2:08:59can raid later. All good.
2:09:00>> Yeah. Yeah.
2:09:03>> I'm not trying to get this in week one.
2:09:04Do you know what I mean? I know they're
2:09:05going to be speedrun levelers.
2:09:07>> Yeah. 100%.
2:09:09>> It's going to get it's going to get
2:09:11figured out. Oh, did you hear about
2:09:13their protections against data mining?
2:09:15>> Yes. So good at it. cool as [ __ ] They
2:09:19are going they're they're going to
2:09:20freaking obfiscate gear in the game.
2:09:24Like they they've built a system where
2:09:25the stats for drops will not appear
2:09:28until the first person gets at the drop.
2:09:31>> This I I I think I could talk about
2:09:33>> interesting.
2:09:34>> Yeah. Uh yeah, they're they're doing
2:09:36encryption.
2:09:37>> Yeah. I had a dinner with Ian. We were
2:09:39we were at a restaurant. Uh howas
2:09:42>> fancy. Yes, we know.
2:09:43>> I like the idea that that it was I had a
2:09:46dinner with Ian. We had a restaurant.
2:09:47Cut two. You're over at one table. He's
2:09:49over at another table.
2:09:51>> I could Yeah. So I'm in the same
2:09:53building as Ian has a costume. And I I'm
2:09:57like waving at him relentlessly
2:09:59>> and he's just ignoring me and then he
2:10:01leaves. It was weird. That's the story.
2:10:03I can share that with you now.
2:10:04>> That was it. Yeah, that's that's all I
2:10:05got.
2:10:06>> But we were having dinner um and there
2:10:08was a few other people there and we were
2:10:10talk I was saying like it really bothers
2:10:11me because we was like can we talk you
2:10:14want to talk shop a little bit? I was
2:10:15like, it really bothers me that in this
2:10:17living, breathing world, we can't have
2:10:19secrets to discover cuz MMO players are
2:10:22literally cockroaches. They consume
2:10:24everything, right? We are by nature.
2:10:26We're cockroaches. Like they they
2:10:28provide a land mass and we just go and
2:10:30consume it every square inch to check
2:10:32every corner. Is that we couldn't have
2:10:35the ability to change something in one
2:10:37of the zones like a a plague spreading.
2:10:40So we could make it really simple is you
2:10:42would go to Goldshshire in one day which
2:10:45is an obvious place but it's just for
2:10:46the sake of what we're talking about and
2:10:48suddenly one of the NPCs is coughing
2:10:52that wasn't there before and now that
2:10:55somebody else starts coughing and
2:10:56something's happening. There's something
2:10:58spreading and people would they wouldn't
2:10:59need to announce it. It wouldn't need to
2:11:00be in a patch notes. They wouldn't need
2:11:02to say something's going on. It's just
2:11:04they could change little bits of the
2:11:05game to indicate that something's
2:11:08happening and leading to a greater story
2:11:10like you know the plague is spreading or
2:11:12whatever it might be but they could do
2:11:13it that way cuz somebody will notice in
2:11:15the MMO world somebody will be like hey
2:11:17have you guys noticed in this obscure
2:11:19inn in this part of the world people
2:11:21have started like getting ill like what
2:11:23the hell is happening there nobody know
2:11:24you know and then it's spread and do all
2:11:26that kind of thing and then it leads to
2:11:28a really cool reveal uh and we were talk
2:11:31comparing it to Fortnite like Fortnite
2:11:33will just suddenly some of their biggest
2:11:35launches have been something just
2:11:36appears in the sky and then what is
2:11:39that? People notice and it gets larger
2:11:41and they keep it all secret. And his
2:11:43issue was the way he said it to me is
2:11:46the problem with that kind of stuff is
2:11:47data mining is if we change anything
2:11:51they scour the files and they see they
2:11:53have detectors that say like dad has
2:11:54changed. Even if we call it something
2:11:56stupid, right? They they often name
2:11:57things like dad one and then the people
2:11:59find it and you know they go there. So I
2:12:02was like, "Why don't you ban data
2:12:03miners?" And he's like, "No, people love
2:12:04data mining. They love finding the new
2:12:06armor. It's our problem. And we're
2:12:08working on encryption ways so the data
2:12:10miners can't tell what we did cuz we
2:12:12want to do that, too. But we see it as
2:12:15an encryption problem, not a data miner
2:12:17problem. It's on our responsibility to
2:12:19fix it." And now all these years later,
2:12:21looks like they [ __ ] managed to maybe
2:12:22do it and hide this stuff and make it so
2:12:26they can actually do those kinds of
2:12:27things. And I'm so hyped for it. Even if
2:12:29it's just armor now, if this works, they
2:12:31can absolutely change parts of the world
2:12:33and we wouldn't know. And that's so
2:12:35good.
2:12:35>> My current question is like with the
2:12:36beta going live, how much of the game is
2:12:38even available? How much of the loot
2:12:40will be spoiled ahead of time? Because
2:12:42if it becomes unencrypted as soon as it
2:12:44drops once now that information could be
2:12:46shared. It's going to end up on fan
2:12:47sites.
2:12:48>> Um, now I that that's me looking to give
2:12:52horse in mouth a bit. I'm glad that
2:12:54they're taking any sort of action at all
2:12:57because I think the fact that they've
2:12:58been able to come up with some sort of
2:12:59encryption is awesome. Uh it's it's
2:13:02quite cool, but I'm like, how does this
2:13:04work for testing? Cuz
2:13:06>> Blizzard loves their PTRs, always has,
2:13:08and it shows no sign of going away. And
2:13:11it's
2:13:12>> one of the ways that that that you know,
2:13:13other games like 14 have have managed to
2:13:15keep some things secret. They have data
2:13:18mining as well, but not like it's not as
2:13:19rampant as it is
2:13:21>> uh with World of Warcraft. But Blizzard
2:13:23kind of invites it with their with their
2:13:25test servers.
2:13:26>> Yeah. But but well, I mean, one thing
2:13:28they could uh probably will do during
2:13:30the test servers is they will just have
2:13:31bland not finalized loot. They just cuz
2:13:34all they're testing really is do the
2:13:36bosses work, do the zones work, do the
2:13:37spells work. That's all they really care
2:13:39about. And they can give any old loot
2:13:41table to whatever. We we won't activate
2:13:43certain hidden quest lines. That's not
2:13:45necessary. We just want to make sure can
2:13:47you load into the zone? Does this does
2:13:49this quest line actually work? That's
2:13:52the information they want. It's like, oh
2:13:53no, this quest breaks at a certain point
2:13:55for whatever reason. This NPC doesn't
2:13:57follow its command on trigger. Um that,
2:13:59you know, I I press bottle strike, but
2:14:02it does zero damage. That's that's a
2:14:03problem. Um I didn't get my talent
2:14:05point. Whatever it might be. Uh the
2:14:06details they can put in later, which is
2:14:09I I assume that's what they're going to
2:14:11do, but we'll find out tomorrow, right?
2:14:12We get what 1 to 20 tomorrow. I think
2:14:14that's it.
2:14:15>> Yeah. Then it opens up to 30. Yeah.
2:14:17>> Mhm. Okay. So they yeah just not include
2:14:20it into the PTR test is fine but they're
2:14:23yeah then worry about their QA it's not
2:14:25been great recently
2:14:27you know for the last year or so their
2:14:28QA has been a little tough uh lots of
2:14:31bugs um happening. So I I kind of accept
2:14:35that a little bit as much as it's annoys
2:14:37me because it shouldn't be there but
2:14:39we'll see.
2:14:40>> We'll see.
2:14:40>> Yeah. Yeah. Not not
2:14:43not to completely defend them, but boy
2:14:45howdy has that company been through some
2:14:46[ __ ] in the last like half decade.
2:14:50Yeah. Um but they've been pushing
2:14:52content so much faster over the last two
2:14:55years. Like this 8week cycle of new
2:14:57content for multiple different versions
2:14:58of WoW and they haven't been able to get
2:15:01it per, you know, we just had a mythic
2:15:03boss come out. um if you don't follow
2:15:05retail, but the it's like the world boss
2:15:07now has a mythic version um that you can
2:15:10do and it's sort of is an entryway. It's
2:15:13flexible mythic, so you don't need all
2:15:1520. It's like a way of introducing the
2:15:16heroic guilds into getting some mythic
2:15:18loot uh and things like that. And it was
2:15:21so hard that it needed seven nerfs
2:15:24before it was killable by like the world
2:15:26first guilds. And for most people, this
2:15:28is mythic world boss, right? This should
2:15:30be one of the easier ones to do. and it
2:15:32was just catastrophically overtuned uh
2:15:35to to massive degrees. So that kind of
2:15:38stuff slipping through the net is a
2:15:39little worrying. It's like uh was this
2:15:41an afterthought or what happened here?
2:15:43If you could see that not not do people
2:15:45aren't able to even kill this at the
2:15:47>> I will take overtuned all day over
2:15:49undertuned. I love watching MMO players
2:15:52get absolutely aced. I find it endlessly
2:15:54entertaining.
2:15:58>> Rolling over too easy is always a bit of
2:16:00a bummer.
2:16:01Well, it's not memorable, right? You
2:16:03never remember the thing that you just
2:16:04killed in one shot. I was like, "Okay,
2:16:05move on." Uh,
2:16:06>> but everyone will remember the day no
2:16:08one on the server could beat a boss.
2:16:10>> Everyone remembers when Kathun lasered
2:16:12you the first time and your whole team
2:16:14just died. Like that is that those
2:16:16videos were so viral back in the day of
2:16:18like ready 3. Oh god, every single
2:16:22person is dead.
2:16:25So I'll take more of that.
2:16:26>> Yeah. So, are you getting in there
2:16:28immediately to just f around in the
2:16:29beta? Are you one of the folks that kind
2:16:30of dodges betas to try and keep
2:16:32yourself, you know,
2:16:32>> Oh, no. I'm in. I I'm I've not designed
2:16:35on a not I'm not set on a class. I want
2:16:37to play a few and get a feel for it. I
2:16:41want to see how different it is from
2:16:42classic. I I'm all down to test the crap
2:16:44out of it. It's not FF14. WoW is not in
2:16:46that same boat. I will spoil the crap
2:16:48out of World of Warcraft at every
2:16:49opportunity. I do not care. Uh whereas
2:16:52comes for 14. Shout outs to my audience
2:16:54who kept the MSQ secret for me. Uh the
2:16:57latest one which we're doing soon. So
2:16:59>> yeah, we'll be back for for one of those
2:17:01uh in a little over a week.
2:17:04>> You do it, Jesse? I No, I'm going to I'm
2:17:08literally waiting till November 4th or
2:17:10whatever. Uh I've got so much stuff to
2:17:12play that I don't have the time or
2:17:14patience to beta test.
2:17:17>> No, I mean the FF14 MSQ, have you done
2:17:19the latest one?
2:17:20>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:17:21>> I was confused. Yes.
2:17:23Okay.
2:17:24>> Yes, I have. It's great.
2:17:25>> Okay.
2:17:26>> Big fan.
2:17:28>> Thumbs up.
2:17:30>> We're We're playing it next Thursday, so
2:17:33>> Okay.
2:17:34>> Yeah. Yeah. Looking forward to it. I've
2:17:35heard I've heard that people appear to
2:17:38like it.
2:17:40>> People are definitely being very
2:17:42reserved and not all caps saying, "Holy
2:17:45[ __ ] it's amazing." or anything.
2:17:47>> Did you like the Beastmaster thing? Did
2:17:48you Did you try that out?
2:17:50>> Uh, I played that for a couple of hours.
2:17:52Uh, seems okay. Um,
2:17:55I don't know why they've made it so
2:17:57limited on how many beasts you can get.
2:17:58I was wandering around for a while, just
2:17:59like clicking things and it's like,
2:18:00nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope,
2:18:02nope, nope. Um, and I don't really point
2:18:05in the beast.
2:18:06>> Yeah, I don't I haven't changed my base
2:18:08one yet. I don't know when I should.
2:18:10>> Once I found out I could get a sprig in,
2:18:12I was I was like, let's go full team of
2:18:14goobers. It's great. Uh, but
2:18:18no matter what you love about the beast
2:18:20master, you literally have to do the
2:18:23crucible. And the crucible is like learn
2:18:26your beasts, bro. You're going to need
2:18:28to know which one does fire and which
2:18:30one does wind and which one does this
2:18:31and it's you have to like make teams. Oh
2:18:34yeah, it's high brain power needed for
2:18:36that. But other than that,
2:18:38>> it's whatever.
2:18:39>> Yeah, it's kind of whatever so far.
2:18:41Press X, kill things.
2:18:43>> Mhm.
2:18:45It's just leveling I don't like. I hate
2:18:47FF14 leveling. I'm just someone in it's,
2:18:49you know, fate grinding and [ __ ] N
2:18:51sure.
2:18:53>> Nah, give me a story to go along with it
2:18:54for
2:18:55>> I don't think I've ever done a fate on
2:18:56purpose while leveling.
2:18:58>> I don't know how else to do it.
2:19:00>> But I guess yeah, if you're not doing
2:19:01MSQ. Yeah.
2:19:02>> Yep.
2:19:03>> No story. All right. Your quest is get
2:19:06to an higher level. That's the quest.
2:19:08It's like I'll talk to you when you've
2:19:10done some leveling. All right. Cool. Uh
2:19:12we'll be back.
2:19:13>> Interesting. Huh?
2:19:14>> Yeah.
2:19:15>> Well, I guess I guess get comfortable
2:19:17cuz the long wait has begun. There's
2:19:20just
2:19:20>> Mhm. Four months, baby.
2:19:22>> We're done.
2:19:23>> Cuz I got a bunch of stuff to play and
2:19:24I'm all I'm okay. Life.
2:19:26>> It was so nice of Blizzard to give me
2:19:27this gift of another MMO to hold me over
2:19:29until Ever
2:19:32>> I was supposed to do Guild Wars 2 in
2:19:33like 3 weeks. Before I went to Blizzcon,
2:19:35I was like, "All right, Guild Wars 2 is
2:19:38like almost immediately after I get
2:19:40back." And then I was like, "Ah, god
2:19:42damn it.
2:19:42>> Never mind. No more free time.
2:19:45>> This is why we almost never announce
2:19:47anything unless it's two weeks out. Like
2:19:48two weeks is the longest out we will
2:19:50call almost.
2:19:51>> This was two weeks and then the whole
2:19:53world changed and it's like actually
2:19:55what we haven't talked about the name.
2:19:57It's rude, right?
2:19:59>> It's the worst thing about this.
2:20:01>> Oh, it's hilarious. I love it.
2:20:02>> It's a bad name.
2:20:04>> What are we calling this game? Because
2:20:06it's it's mean. It's like you're going
2:20:08to play this game forever. I know.
2:20:10>> Yeah.
2:20:11>> I know.
2:20:12>> Yeah. It sounds fun.
2:20:14>> Kyle and I turned to each other during
2:20:15the live stream when they dropped that
2:20:16name and we're like, "That sounds like a
2:20:18threat."
2:20:19>> Mhm.
2:20:20>> You will play WoW forever.
2:20:22>> Yeah. They're not wrong. I hate them for
2:20:25it. Like I feel like it's less about
2:20:29it's less about playing it forever and
2:20:31more about the vibe much like the
2:20:34critically acclaimed Batman Forever in
2:20:37which case it was about like how Batman
2:20:40is like bigger than just
2:20:45which Batman is Batman or which you know
2:20:48rogues gallery character man. It's about
2:20:50Batman existing outside like a cultural
2:20:53zeitgeist situation. That's Wow forever.
2:20:55It's an ethereal forever. It's like
2:20:57Yeah, man. It's just it it's WoW, but
2:21:00like not but it is.
2:21:03>> Yeah. Just just like that.
2:21:05>> I need to hear your justification for
2:21:06why it was called that. Was there any
2:21:09thing with Nicole Kidman and Chris
2:21:12O'Donnell that made it forever? Tommy
2:21:14Lee Jones. Why was that called forever?
2:21:18because it was it was the fact that
2:21:21Batman
2:21:23exists as more it's the legend of the
2:21:26Batman. Don't you get it, man? IT'S NOT
2:21:29ABOUT
2:21:30>> IT'S NOT IT'S not about whether it's a
2:21:32good or bad movie. It's about that
2:21:34Batman exists forever.
2:21:37>> You will remember the nipples on the
2:21:40suit forever.
2:21:41>> That wasn't forever.
2:21:42>> That was No, hold on. That was the
2:21:43fourth movie. Hold on. Let's be clear.
2:21:45>> No, the third one had nipples.
2:21:47I don't
2:21:49think I think they both have nipples.
2:21:52They both have nipples. That was the
2:21:53Jerry Brookheimimer thing. Or not Jerry.
2:21:56Who's who made this?
2:21:57>> I can't believe I'm guilty. Jerry made
2:21:59this. I hate you.
2:22:00>> Batman nipples.
2:22:03Vel Kilmer. Batman.
2:22:05>> Kilmer had nipples. If he did, I don't
2:22:06remember it. I'm glad I don't.
2:22:09>> Had nipples. I'm looking right at him.
2:22:10>> Oh, yeah. He does have nipples. Yep.
2:22:12>> Damn. There you They don't protrude like
2:22:14Okay. So, a lot of
2:22:16>> You know what was the fourth one? The
2:22:18crotch shot where they snap the belt and
2:22:20it's the crotch shot and it's like
2:22:22>> they also had the ass shot.
2:22:24>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
2:22:25>> Yeah. Which you I'm surprised you didn't
2:22:26bring up first, Jesse, given the topic
2:22:28of conversation that you brought to the
2:22:29table today.
2:22:30>> If it was made by Overwatch, then yes.
2:22:33>> Then yes, I would have had thoughts on
2:22:34the asses of those characters, but it
2:22:36wasn't. So,
2:22:36>> both were made by Schumacher and
2:22:37Schumacher Yeah. had loved had a thing
2:22:39for for nipples on the Batman suits. So
2:22:42twoird, one nipples, one without.
2:22:45>> Mhm.
2:22:46>> Is Batman forever suit? No nipples.
2:22:49>> This is particularly hilarious because
2:22:50when I did a World of Warcraft podcast
2:22:52with Tally Essen, for some reason Batman
2:22:54would come up almost every episode.
2:22:56>> So we're just keeping that
2:22:57>> Welsh the Welsh love Batman.
2:23:01>> So we're just we're just keeping that
2:23:02tradition alive and well.
2:23:04>> Yeah.
2:23:07Forever. Yeah, I would say
2:23:08>> I think what we've discovered here is
2:23:10that Warcraft Forever will feature
2:23:11nipples on armor. I believe that's what
2:23:14we've discovered. That's the forever
2:23:16part of it. If you're wondering what the
2:23:18forever part, nipples on armor,
2:23:20>> it's part of the prestige, that's how
2:23:21you know someone got the good gear.
2:23:23>> Oh yeah. And like the more pointy the
2:23:24nipples are.
2:23:26>> Yeah. Yeah. Like cuz it's so spikes.
2:23:28They're little spikes.
2:23:30>> So eventually it's like OG Lara Croft
2:23:32and that means you won.
2:23:33>> Oh yeah. Like that's Yes. That's how you
2:23:35know someone beat Max Remis. YEAH. YEAH.
2:23:38WHOA, look at those polygons, baby.
2:23:41That's hot [ __ ] right there. That guy
2:23:44>> forget tier three. It's time for tit
2:23:45three.
2:23:46>> That guy, you know he's good. That guy
2:23:48plays. That guy is in a hardcore guild
2:23:50right there. If I gather armor, I might
2:23:53turn transmog on.
2:23:56So, so I don't let people know.
2:23:58>> H if they if you if you ever end up
2:24:00replacing your legendary weapons, I feel
2:24:02like you'll be like, "Okay, maybe I'll
2:24:03think."
2:24:03>> Okay, I can put your legendaries.
2:24:05>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
2:24:07>> in the first year of this game is will
2:24:09be a brand new legendary quest, which
2:24:11>> you know what, you know what they're
2:24:13doing? It's going to be uh Ash Candy.
2:24:15Oh, not Ash Candy. What was it called?
2:24:16Where people got to really play up on
2:24:18the old uh wild theories. Ashbringer,
2:24:20you know, the fishing.
2:24:21>> I bet there's a legendary that comes
2:24:23from some sort of fishing thing cuz that
2:24:25was back in the day. Yeah, I think
2:24:26that'd be really cute uh to have
2:24:28something like that in there.
2:24:31>> That's how they bait Mr. Happy to come
2:24:32over from Final Fantasy 14.
2:24:34>> Just the fishing. It's all fishing all
2:24:36the time.
2:24:37>> Mhm.
2:24:37>> That's it.
2:24:38>> Yeah. You have a 0.00.
2:24:40It's like a mirror of Kandra drop from
2:24:43fishing to get a legendary sword. It'd
2:24:45be sweet. Cow level. I hope they do all
2:24:47that stuff. They could This is not
2:24:48cannon. They could be very cute. They
2:24:50could be very cuty about hidden quest
2:24:52lines and mystery items and all sorts of
2:24:55stuff. I am so down for all of that
2:24:57stuff. Doesn't matter.
2:24:59>> Find a tiny little smaller dark portal
2:25:01takes you to a random Zerg planet.
2:25:04That'd be fun.
2:25:05>> They they told us not to take pictures
2:25:06of the mini dark portal when we got in
2:25:10early to the the halls. Um I was like,
2:25:14why? That's actually not revealing
2:25:15anything unless the the new expansion or
2:25:17whatever is going to be a mini dark
2:25:18portal that you can't fit through or
2:25:20something like that. I thought it was
2:25:22going to be a deactivated dark portal,
2:25:24but it was just like don't take any
2:25:26pictures. And then 10 minutes later,
2:25:28people were streaming in there and it
2:25:29was like it it Yeah. I was like, what
2:25:32the [ __ ]
2:25:33What is going on? They had a mini dart
2:25:35port bottle. They had the huge dark
2:25:36portal for pictures, then a mini one.
2:25:39>> At least it was faster than dealing with
2:25:42the the you can't say you're in media
2:25:44tour for Final Fantasy 14 during Dawn
2:25:46Trail.
2:25:46>> Oh, that was
2:25:47>> while being at the med. Yeah. Like,
2:25:49well, everyone's there. Like, I'm I
2:25:51don't know what you're talking about.
2:25:53>> I'm taking a vacation.
2:25:54>> Every Final Fantasy 14 streamer you
2:25:56watch is is for some reason dark today.
2:25:58G. I wonder what's going on. M yeah,
2:26:02Japan is so weird with all that stuff.
2:26:04>> And someone got in trouble why
2:26:07>> someone got into trouble for wearing
2:26:08their Dawn Trail hoodie in LAX after the
2:26:11US. Um
2:26:12>> I they never told us that
2:26:15>> and I was wearing it home uh cuz it was
2:26:17cold in Germany. So I put it on cuz I
2:26:19didn't bring a hoodie with me. And then
2:26:21I got a text on the way home say do oh
2:26:24just letting you guys know not to wear
2:26:25this cuz I left really early. I left at
2:26:27like 3:00 a.m. and when they woke up 4
2:26:29hours later I was already home. They
2:26:30were like make sure nobody wears the
2:26:31Dawn Trail merch. I'm like
2:26:33>> it was so funny cuz it's like it was
2:26:34already announced like all FanFests were
2:26:37concluded. Dawn Trail was announced. We
2:26:39everyone had seen the logo and the
2:26:40hoodie was literally just the logo. That
2:26:42was it. Mhm.
2:26:44>> Um, so and then we the other funny thing
2:26:47is that Kyle and I saw a guy with a
2:26:50guitar on his back and a big cowboy hat
2:26:52while we were hanging out in LAX and
2:26:54Kyle's like, "Man, that guy looks a lot
2:26:55like Jason Charles Miller." And then
2:26:57before we saw the email yelling at the
2:27:00person to take his Dantra hoodie off, I
2:27:02saw a tweet from Jason Charles Miller
2:27:04that said, "Hey, I saw a guy with a Don
2:27:06Trail hoodie in LAX."
2:27:08Like, that was Jason Charles Miller
2:27:10away.
2:27:11He was at the airport when I was in
2:27:13Germany uh after FanFest, but he looked
2:27:17he looked exhausted. I think he'd flown
2:27:18in just to do that concert and then
2:27:20left.
2:27:20>> I I bumped into him at FanFest in in the
2:27:24US and and I've never seen a man that
2:27:26wanted to talk to someone less. Um so I
2:27:30>> No, I was so rude on the plane to
2:27:33Blizzcon and I couldn't help it cuz I
2:27:36got so many delays. I was 20 hours in
2:27:38and still had another 5h hour flight to
2:27:40get to California from Atlanta. Uh but
2:27:43that plane was filled with Blizzcon
2:27:45attendees and I got on and it was like
2:27:47preach preach and I was like oh no I
2:27:50just want to die right now uh
2:27:52completely. I've been awake for 20
2:27:54hours. I am not like and I was just
2:27:56waving at people as I walked past and
2:27:59then somebody said Mike and I just was
2:28:02still like just waving and walked past
2:28:03to sit on sit on my seat so I could just
2:28:05drift into a hole of media consumption
2:28:08until the plane finally arrived and then
2:28:10I thought back and I was pretty sure it
2:28:12was Morgan Day that I just glazed
2:28:15completely on the plane and I was like
2:28:17oh my god I just completely just
2:28:19gaslighted Morgan really badly. I was
2:28:22wondering when I was going to get up. It
2:28:24bothered me for the entire flight as to
2:28:26whether I needed to go up and talk to
2:28:27this person. And it wasn't until we
2:28:29land.
2:28:29>> No, I landed stood up. It was this
2:28:31doppelganger. I was like I've never so
2:28:33relieved in my life. I was like, "Oh,
2:28:37thank God." Just in my blurred state,
2:28:38this person looks very similar to
2:28:40Morgan. I was like, "Oh my god." Like I
2:28:44must have come across as such an
2:28:45egoomaniac of like, "Hey Morgan, Mike,
2:28:49[ __ ] leave me alone. Get out of the
2:28:50way. Just getting sat on here."
2:28:52And then there's people like, "Do you
2:28:54want can I take a picture?" I'm like,
2:28:55"No, we've got all weekend." Not now,
2:28:57dude. Like, it's not happening.
2:29:02These things, they they happen. They
2:29:04happen.
2:29:04>> Ego on this guy just
2:29:07>> You've been there
2:29:09awake for 25 hours.
2:29:13>> I would have been asleep.
2:29:13>> No, dude.
2:29:14>> I would have got on that plane and
2:29:16fallen asleep. That's my superpower.
2:29:17People could have like shook me and I
2:29:20would have been like,
2:29:21>> "Good night."
2:29:22>> Do you take anything for that or is it
2:29:23natural?
2:29:24>> It's I'm just blessed. It's the one
2:29:26thing I can do
2:29:28>> is fall asleep on a plane before IT EVEN
2:29:30TAKES OFF. I'm out.
2:29:31>> No way. I cannot sleep on any plane. I
2:29:33live through them all. I watched the
2:29:35entire Oceans trilogy on my way back
2:29:37this time.
2:29:38>> Jesus.
2:29:40Long flight. And not even just like
2:29:42drooling, just like, "Oh my god,
2:29:45please let this I'm I think I'm too
2:29:47tall. My neck goes over the back of the
2:29:49chair."
2:29:49>> Yeah, that's the worst.
2:29:50>> And just you cannot get comfortable.
2:29:52It's If I stay there for even a few
2:29:54minutes, it hurts. Even with a pillow
2:29:55thing, I go over the back of it cuz
2:29:56there's nowhere to rest it
2:29:58>> and I try and sludge and then your back
2:29:59breaks. Um, it is what it is. What you
2:30:02going to do?
2:30:02>> What are you going to do?
2:30:03>> You hit the curve of that window. Yeah.
2:30:05>> Apparently going to play WoW Forever
2:30:06tomorrow when the baby
2:30:09>> I keep refreshing, guys. Someone trolled
2:30:10me saying it could be downloaded now.
2:30:12Uh, but that was a lie.
2:30:14>> Should we um, you know, I I know we get
2:30:17together enough, but should we put
2:30:18another one of these on the books after
2:30:19it comes out to do a little little
2:30:21postmortem on Wow Forever? Just get our
2:30:23thoughts.
2:30:24>> Uh, yeah, we can. Um,
2:30:28>> oh yeah, that deeper in November. Yeah,
2:30:30sometime.
2:30:31>> Do you want to mix sades to the MSQ? We
2:30:33could do a double whammy or do you want
2:30:34to keep them separate?
2:30:35>> Probably better keep them separate. I'm
2:30:37not sure if 14 people want to hear about
2:30:38forever and if forever people want to
2:30:40hear about 14.
2:30:42>> Mhm.
2:30:43>> Okay. Yeah. Dime down. Just just stick a
2:30:45date down. I'll be there.
2:30:46>> Yeah. Yeah. All right. Cool. Um well, J,
2:30:50thanks for uh thanks for making time.
2:30:52Thanks for uh fighting through plane
2:30:54delays, smoking computers,
2:30:57and uh being rude to people on
2:30:58airplanes.
2:31:00I appreciate it.
2:31:02>> Oh, indeed. Thank you very Sorry, I've
2:31:05just got live info that I do have
2:31:07forever. It's just not available.
2:31:08>> Hey. Oh, wow.
2:31:10>> I'm getting I'm getting live updates as
2:31:12we go is like Okay, I have it. All
2:31:13right, I'm good. I'm good. I'm all set.
2:31:16I'm all set. Stack you, double,
2:31:19>> look at this. Look at this famous man
2:31:21and his and his uh his already free for
2:31:24it's already free. Unless you're getting
2:31:25the elves, I guess.
2:31:27>> Well, don't you have to buy into the
2:31:28beta?
2:31:29>> Yeah, you do have to buy into the beta.
2:31:31That's true.
2:31:31>> It's a buying thing.
2:31:32>> Yeah, you do have to buy in the beta.
2:31:34Yeah.
2:31:34>> Yep. Yep.
2:31:35>> Uh well, before we go, Jesse, you got a
2:31:39new video out today. Where can folks
2:31:40find you?
2:31:41>> OH, BOY. HEY, uh just Jesse Cox over the
2:31:43internet right now. Uh if you have no
2:31:46knowledge of the remedy/control/allen
2:31:50wake universe, there's a video up on the
2:31:52channel. It's uh control in the
2:31:54remedyverse for beginners. It's
2:31:55spoilerfree.
2:31:57We put a lot of time and effort making
2:31:58it look absolutely goofy. So, please
2:32:01enjoy that and go have fun and hopefully
2:32:04you'll learn something without ruining
2:32:06the games.
2:32:09>> Okay.
2:32:09>> Actual Jesse in your thumbnail.
2:32:12>> Literally, she's in the she's in the
2:32:13episode.
2:32:14>> Holy [ __ ] dude. That rules.
2:32:17>> Yeah, I got uh I got like s like we put
2:32:20in time and effort. We we worked with
2:32:23schedules. So yeah, it's a whole it's
2:32:26like imagine a video of of things
2:32:29compiled by someone, no names, and each
2:32:34little section is its own. Here's
2:32:36something you learn.
2:32:37>> Who in the control fiction would compile
2:32:40some videos? Who who could it possibly
2:32:42be?
2:32:42>> It does. It It's weird that the intro
2:32:44starts in the bottom corner with a
2:32:46blessed pictures production 2026. So
2:32:49like that's it's whatever, you know, no
2:32:52worries.
2:32:54There's a lot of Easter eggs for people
2:32:55who know the universe. And if you don't,
2:32:57you won't pick up on them at all. And
2:32:58that's cool. Have fun.
2:32:59>> Dude, I'm I'm freaking stoked to watch
2:33:02that. I love Control.
2:33:04I love Control.
2:33:06>> I do, too. I love those games. And so,
2:33:08this is sort of a love letter to them.
2:33:09More money and time was put into this
2:33:11than most things I do. So,
2:33:16>> first day I didn't just shoot to camera
2:33:18and release the video. Nailed it.
2:33:20>> Yeah. Yeah. Usually that's what I do.
2:33:21This was we we made it look like it was
2:33:24in universe. So, a lot of time went into
2:33:28this.
2:33:29>> Is that a sponsored thing or did you
2:33:30just send it yourself?
2:33:31>> No, this is just I'm much like with
2:33:34Witcher. Uh sometimes I just obsess over
2:33:36[ __ ] and then really, you know, same
2:33:40thing with with making 14 videos or
2:33:43making, you know, back when I made WoW
2:33:44videos. It really is just kind of like,
2:33:46yeah, man. I I like get really add
2:33:49obsessed with the thing and I'm like I
2:33:51must execute the vision in my brain and
2:33:54that's it. And so this was one of those
2:33:56where I've been thinking about it for
2:33:57like two years and I was like well when
2:33:59they give us a release date for the new
2:34:01game that's when I'll make this thing
2:34:02and they did and so I made this video a
2:34:06week out from launch and hopefully it
2:34:09will help people if they want to get
2:34:10into the world.
2:34:11>> That's awesome. That's what I've been
2:34:12doing.
2:34:14>> And uh Preach, what about you? Where can
2:34:16folks find you? Uh, Preach Gaming is the
2:34:19easiest way to find me. Uh, I I for the
2:34:22first time in
2:34:24years, not years, but like in a while
2:34:26I've been inspired to actually make some
2:34:28WoW content uh on from forever. Um, so
2:34:32I've done that. So, some good stuff on
2:34:34YouTube on there um that we've been
2:34:36releasing. So, yeah, I'm very into that.
2:34:38I'm going to be playing some some Wo for
2:34:39the next next couple of days at least uh
2:34:42to see what's going on and having fun.
2:34:43But, we're variety so we do everything.
2:34:45We're doing 132
2:34:48right now and uh guild wars and MMOs and
2:34:51then we're doing something else which I
2:34:52can't announce yet cuz things get moved
2:34:54around. So, we'll see. But yeah, all
2:34:57variety, lots of stuff. Very fun. And
2:35:01yeah, there you go.
2:35:03>> Nice. Well, everyone can find us uh just
2:35:05search for grinding on YouTube. We are
2:35:06at twitch.tv/grinding_geear.
2:35:10And uh the same we do quite a bit around
2:35:12these parts. We're uh we do a lot of
2:35:15Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy 7 starts up
2:35:17September 30th. We Kylin and myself have
2:35:20never played it before. So if you want
2:35:22to uh see two guys looking at a
2:35:25PlayStation one like cavemen discovering
2:35:28fire, September 30th is the uh is the
2:35:32date for that. And uh on that check out
2:35:36our Patreon, support bromance.com. Go
2:35:38give it a look. Man, Kyle with the
2:35:40tradition with the transitions today.
2:35:42He's been on point.
2:35:43>> Goodness,
2:35:44>> my guy.
2:35:45>> Yeah,
2:35:45>> Kyle got bat nipples so fast.
2:35:50>> I'm a wiz. What can I say?
2:35:53>> Like rapidly got that sorted.
2:35:55>> This is my passion.
2:35:58>> Uh, seriously guys, uh, these are fun.
2:35:59Thanks for making time for them.
2:36:01>> Thank you so much.
2:36:02>> Surprised you're here today, P. My god.
2:36:04Almost.
2:36:06No, it was great. I was awake for like
2:36:0930 hours straight, but it landed exactly
2:36:12when I would usually go to bed. So, by
2:36:14the time I passed out, it was I I've
2:36:16reset my body clock already. I've got no
2:36:18jet lag at all. I just pushed through it
2:36:20and I'm fine. I was in the gym this
2:36:21morning. I did a 10K. I feel fine.
2:36:25>> Nice. Damn.
2:36:26>> Yeah, it works out nice. Uh it was
2:36:28genuinely pretty good.
2:36:30>> Good stuff. All right, guys. Well, uh
2:36:32we'll talk MSQ relatively soon.
2:36:34>> Yeah. What?
2:36:37I think for a bit of chat, but uh
2:36:39>> enjoy forever.
2:36:41>> Enjoy forever. I'mma mess around in
2:36:44there tomorrow as well.
2:36:46>> Um
2:36:48and whenever we're done with uh savage
2:36:50rating with pint.
2:36:53>> Oh, okay. All right. I'm going to go
2:36:56home. Love you guys.
2:36:58>> All right.
2:36:58>> Have a good night. Thank you.
2:36:59>> Thank you, President. Love you, too.
2:37:01Always a pleas.
2:37:03>> Bye, T.
2:37:06Res buttons.
2:37:10>> I love you.
2:37:11>> Explodes.
2:37:14>> Oh my goodness. Oh, that was a fun talk.
2:37:17Yeah, man. Yeah, man.
2:37:19>> Dude, I'm so I'm so hyped for forever.
2:37:23>> I'm so I'm so hyped for forever.
2:37:26>> I love the name until I have to say it.
2:37:28I think it is a beautiful promise and it
2:37:31it is a huge part of why I'm even
2:37:32willing to invest is I think the name is
2:37:36just that a promise but anytime I have
2:37:38to say it aloud
2:37:39>> it it feels complete ass I I can't help
2:37:42but just laugh to myself.
2:37:45>> Yeah. Yeah. I get I mean I guess it's it
2:37:47is it's a promise. At its most
2:37:50optimistic it's a promise. At it at my
2:37:53most sarcastic it sounds like a a threat
2:37:56for sure. What are you doing, Dad?
2:37:58Playing forever. You know what I mean,
2:37:59son?
2:38:00>> Playing forever.
2:38:01>> Playing forever
2:38:02>> until you're 90.
2:38:05>> I I still don't trust Mile forever.
2:38:07Ignore my launcher screen. Yeah. Yeah,
2:38:09exactly. I don't I don't know about this
2:38:12as person currently logging in.
2:38:14>> It honestly with It's not that big of an
2:38:16investment. Try it out.
2:38:18>> It It just seems cool. Yeah, that like
2:38:21I'm not thinking about it like the
2:38:22second coming of anything. It's just
2:38:23like I like this world and returning to
2:38:27it with some new things to do sounds
2:38:31really appealing.
2:38:32>> Yeah. I mean, the vibes could just
2:38:33straight up be off and um you know, it
2:38:35doesn't land. They talk about a lot the
2:38:37classic feel, but that still means like
2:38:39story lines could just be unimpressive,
2:38:42I think.
2:38:43>> But that's part of the classic feel.
2:38:44Some of the story lines were who gives a
2:38:46[ __ ] Like most people like the the
2:38:49initial wave of of WoW becoming a major
2:38:52pop culture moment wasn't because of its
2:38:54narrative.
2:38:55>> No. No.
2:38:56>> Because of what it felt like to play
2:38:57that game and like the own story that
2:38:59you kind of forged playing through it.
2:39:00>> And that's why I mean like when when you
2:39:02can eject the sacredness that you have
2:39:04for video games. Uh things can get a lot
2:39:07more fun. Sometimes it's just it's the
2:39:10freaking best. You you turn the lights
2:39:12just right. You light a candle and you
2:39:13play some Witcher 3. you know, yeah,
2:39:16make sure you only play the end of
2:39:17Cyberpunk completely by yourself for 6
2:39:20hours straight. Like, you make that
2:39:22time, but WoW was never really that. It
2:39:25was a It was a pop in pop out kind of
2:39:27experience. And when you locked in, it
2:39:29was for co-op content.
2:39:31>> So, I need you to lock in.
2:39:33>> I know. I'm excited because I'm, you
2:39:34know, going over talent trees. Like,
2:39:36that's that's where I'm like, "Okay,
2:39:37yep."
2:39:37>> That's where I can tell the fact Kyle
2:39:39has brought up talents to me five
2:39:41separate times.
2:39:42>> There's so much cool [ __ ] in here, man.
2:39:44Like that's that's where I can tell Kyle
2:39:46gives a flying crap. I'm I'm I'm kind of
2:39:49in in Preach's headsp space right now.
2:39:51I'm like I kind of I think I do want to
2:39:53get in the beta and just mess around
2:39:54with some classes and see see how it
2:39:56feels so I know what the hell I want. By
2:39:59the way, did you see that they're doing
2:40:00name reservations and charact and early
2:40:02character creation like ahead of launch
2:40:04>> in beta if you buy or?
2:40:06>> No, no, no, not not in beta. I I don't
2:40:09know if you need to buy into it or not,
2:40:10but it's on that road map that they
2:40:13showed. Oh, I wonder if I still have
2:40:14that up. Yeah.
2:40:15>> Um, I've got the notes here. Name
2:40:17reservations and character creation
2:40:19happens on October 27th. I don't know if
2:40:22there's any restrictions for that. Like,
2:40:23if you need to buy a blue elf or
2:40:26something,
2:40:26>> huh? I mean,
2:40:28>> you have to buy it. You Okay, hold on.
2:40:30You You think Okay, I don't know. I
2:40:32don't know if it's confirmed.
2:40:33>> It's easy to be pessimistic about about
2:40:35it. Also, I don't It doesn't really
2:40:38matter. I as a content creator, I should
2:40:41always have the same name in game just
2:40:42for branding, but I never do. I always
2:40:44make unique game character with every
2:40:46character.
2:40:47>> Oh, yeah.
2:40:47>> I harpy too hard.
2:40:49>> Um, but that's cool. Yeah. Early name
2:40:51reservation and character creation, huh?
2:40:54>> October 27th.
2:40:55>> Yeah,
2:40:56>> that's a great way to like, you know,
2:40:58get invested. Like I was saying, Kristen
2:41:01Kristen's been excited and you I cannot
2:41:05stress enough how much immersion and
2:41:08personality she lost when she lost her
2:41:10face belts. When they did the character
2:41:12update and that simple combination of
2:41:15that mouth and those faces with that
2:41:17hair didn't exist anymore.
2:41:20She was broken. She was out. That wasn't
2:41:23the passion. And that was a rogue. Like
2:41:26it was so funny. People yelling, "F you,
2:41:28passion." She would gank him from behind
2:41:31on a rogue on our PvP server. Freaking
2:41:33loved it.
2:41:36Oh no, here comes the passion.
2:41:38>> So this is why you are endlessly
2:41:40passionate about [ __ ] face belts is
2:41:43because it stopped your wife from
2:41:44playing.
2:41:45>> It did. Yeah. It killed her interest.
2:41:48>> Couldn't do it anymore. Killed the
2:41:51character. My wife misses the friends we
2:41:53made in WoW. Especially those in Four
2:41:55Horid and another guild. That's right,
2:41:57BTO. You were in my [ __ ] guild.
2:41:59That's still insane to me.
2:42:01>> Yeah.
2:42:02>> Wonders of those people will play
2:42:03classic. Yeah. I haven't heard I haven't
2:42:06heard from anyone. I was pretty bad
2:42:08about staying in touch. Um, one member
2:42:10of four horde was went to school with me
2:42:12and that's how I learned about the
2:42:15about that. But I haven't talked to her
2:42:16in forever. She ended up being our raid
2:42:18leader.
2:42:20But uh we haven't kept in touch.
2:42:22>> I got to be able to put down and walk
2:42:23away. I can't do PvP. I love PvP servers
2:42:26so much. I think it's so
2:42:27>> great. I don't Yeah, I don't have the
2:42:28patience for them.
2:42:29>> I loved logging in sitting in Iron Forge
2:42:32and then being like I'm just shopping
2:42:34and crafting and enchanting and [ __ ]
2:42:36tonight. I I don't have the hard me to
2:42:38go out there, but I loved being a
2:42:40classic mage so much. Teleporting
2:42:42everywhere, you know, just selling
2:42:44ports, doing enchantments, like being a
2:42:46little shopkeep gnome. It's It's a
2:42:48tempting proposition.
2:42:51>> But Garrett, maybe we'll talk to them in
2:42:53forever.
2:42:53>> Maybe forever.
2:42:54>> Maybe talk to you forever.
2:42:57>> Oh, my favorite person I've ever played
2:42:59Wow with I I married. So, you know, I
2:43:01stay in touch with her pretty well.
2:43:02Katie thinks it looks neat. She might be
2:43:04playing. Um, she might be I don't know
2:43:07if I can convince her to go horde with
2:43:09us. I'm assuming you're leading horde.
2:43:11>> I'm honestly kind of just undecided. Um,
2:43:16a lot of it's going to depend on when we
2:43:19hear the vibes because horde leveling
2:43:23was just sort of unfilled out. Um,
2:43:27>> I I my expectations of the horde will
2:43:30always be much harder on the story
2:43:32because I want to be a villain. I want
2:43:34to be more gritty and the back of the
2:43:38unders city is probably the most
2:43:39interesting thing they're doing for me
2:43:40personally in terms of zone creation.
2:43:44Mh. Uh, which, you know, being undead
2:43:46would be really fun for.
2:43:47>> I always thought in original World of
2:43:49Warcraft, the undead had the best horde
2:43:51leveling experience cuz that that area
2:43:53was significantly more filled out and
2:43:57lively
2:43:58than Duratar, I thought.
2:44:01>> Yeah. And I love being a troll, but that
2:44:04Durotar is ass. I've
2:44:06>> Durar is ass. And while it's so cool and
2:44:08makes sense for the lore for the trolls
2:44:09to be out on those islands, just
2:44:11swimming between the islands sucks.
2:44:13Yeah, it got and even when they did the
2:44:15big update, that was still just not a
2:44:16very enjoyable experience. Um
2:44:20because I was more in for it for the
2:44:22rarity. Like I love in Warcraft 3, you
2:44:24always had, you know, the big line of
2:44:25grunts, but then you had just a couple
2:44:27of trolls in the back like being that
2:44:28that rarity there. I love alchemy, too.
2:44:31So, it's easy to end up
2:44:33>> doing anything in that department.
2:44:36>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm very excited about
2:44:38undead palies. So, I I can totally go
2:44:41freaking freaking horde. Don't bother
2:44:43me.
2:44:44>> None.
2:44:44>> Um, can't you be
2:44:48a sky paladin? Is that a thing? I need
2:44:51to find that
2:44:51>> sky elf.
2:44:52>> Yeah, I need to find the the
2:44:54combinations again here.
2:44:55>> Um, let's see. Wow. Forever class race
2:44:59combos.
2:45:02Class race list.
2:45:11Let's what what are they called? Because
2:45:13they split the sky. There's skyborn and
2:45:15then there's like arcane born because of
2:45:18>> I think only the alliance blue elves can
2:45:21be paladins. The horde blue elves can be
2:45:23shaman.
2:45:24>> It's mages. It's mages are restricted to
2:45:26alliance.
2:45:28>> Oh, it's a lord.
2:45:29>> They can also be paladins.
2:45:31>> Paladin pal. They can't be paladins at
2:45:33all. Neither one.
2:45:34>> Okay.
2:45:35Well, there you go.
2:45:36>> So, you've got
2:45:37>> But if I was going to be a horde
2:45:38paladin, I would be a undead. That's
2:45:39just too freaking cool.
2:45:40>> Oh, you've got human, dwarf, and undead.
2:45:43That's it.
2:45:45>> That sounds right. Cuz vanilla it was
2:45:47originally just human and dwarfs.
2:45:49>> That does sound right.
2:45:50>> And so they're giving So who can be
2:45:51shaman on alliance?
2:45:53>> U shaman would be on Alliance. That's a
2:45:56That's just the new guys.
2:45:58>> Oh wow.
2:45:59>> Did they do Were they adding dwarf?
2:46:01Wasn't that a thing? Yes.
2:46:03Shaman. Yes. Yes. Dwarf is being asked.
2:46:06>> Okay. So, there's a non-paid option if
2:46:08you want a shaman on the Alliance.
2:46:09That's good.
2:46:10>> That's good.
2:46:12>> Um H troll leveling was asked, but the
2:46:14Berserker racial and the in combat regen
2:46:17as a tank was one of those Oh, nices.
2:46:18Yeah. Just
2:46:19>> Oh, and the priest abilities are so much
2:46:21fun. I guess Chad was saying that um
2:46:23they're just taking all the priest
2:46:24racials and just putting them in priest,
2:46:26which is great for her fear ward and
2:46:29devouring plague and all that, but I'm
2:46:31going to miss a little bit. I had a the
2:46:32curse of weakness was so much fun in
2:46:36PvP.
2:46:37>> Yeah.
2:46:37>> Did very little, but it was a great
2:46:40little ratio. What are you? You got
2:46:41beast slang. Berserking still there.
2:46:44Casting speed by 10%.
2:46:46>> This is troll.
2:46:47>> Yeah, regen and re Yeah, the regen's.
2:46:50It's fun. It's a fun idea,
2:46:52>> especially at the speed of vanilla,
2:46:55right? Like you're constantly needing to
2:46:56stop and eat. Like any sort of regen
2:46:58helps a lot. Well, that's why the undead
2:47:00ratio, the cannibalize giving mana now
2:47:02is a huge deal because that was only
2:47:03health.
2:47:06>> Yeah, I always enjoyed cannibalize. It
2:47:08was just very well themed.
2:47:10>> Yeah.
2:47:12>> Uh, Rainer who missed your super
2:47:14earlier. Thank you. Dropping a money
2:47:15brick to pitch this. If you like Emmett
2:47:18Selk, you should give the whole story of
2:47:20D4 story a try. I There's no universe
2:47:22where I knew what the next words were
2:47:23going to be.
2:47:27D4 story has easily been Blizzard's
2:47:29best. That sound h like respect Rainer.
2:47:32That just sounds completely insane to
2:47:33me. I hated it when I started playing
2:47:35it. I was so bored and I just wanted
2:47:37them to get on with it when I when I
2:47:39when I tried D4. I was
2:47:42it was deeply not for me. Um but I do I
2:47:47have heard very good things about the
2:47:48latest expansion. So I don't know if
2:47:50that's if that has helped a lot.
2:47:52>> Yeah,
2:47:52>> that's just it's a lot of game. That's a
2:47:54lot of game to get through and I'm not
2:47:57particularly interested in the in the
2:47:59intro experience.
2:48:02I only tried it once. But
2:48:05yeah, I will I will not be quiet if I
2:48:07ever complete the the the base D4 arc.
2:48:13>> Some at some point I need to take you
2:48:14through Diablo I. It's just it's just a
2:48:17good time.
2:48:18>> I I think it'd be a really fun thing to
2:48:19do on the channel, man. It's just, you
2:48:21know, this is like another bucket list
2:48:22item for me. like, "Yeah, somehow I
2:48:24missed Diablo I
2:48:26>> made it all the way through."
2:48:27>> And I think the story is satisfying
2:48:28enough that you can feel like you beat
2:48:29it and just walk away and be like, "I I
2:48:32beat Diablo and expansion."
2:48:34>> Yeah. And then if I like it, we have
2:48:36another thing we can mess around with
2:48:37randomly because we'll have two end of
2:48:39story tunes to screw around with.
2:48:42Uh Pins and Neil, thank you for the
2:48:43super catching up. But the rem uh but
2:48:45remember the five minute buffs, the
2:48:47horror.
2:48:47>> I saw this coming around um people
2:48:49voting for things. So, you know, yes.
2:48:53Yes. Yeah. It's all part of like I think
2:48:57the best argument when it comes to World
2:48:58of Warcraft is um shield wall is just
2:49:05the idea that your tank was ripping it
2:49:07was so novel and scary that it does have
2:49:10its place. Long cooldowns can be
2:49:13extremely interesting. But there's also
2:49:1614 where you you play the entire game in
2:49:18a dungeon and you should always be using
2:49:20everything. And that's
2:49:21>> it's a different vibe, but it's also
2:49:23very fun.
2:49:24>> Yeah. Yeah. It's just like this kind of
2:49:27stuff I talk about all the time. It's
2:49:28like there's not I I don't think there's
2:49:29nely like a correct answer in a lot of
2:49:31these cases. It's just like different
2:49:33ways to do it. And I probably like more
2:49:36than one way in terms of a design
2:49:38philosophy.
2:49:40And uh I I think that's certainly the
2:49:41case between between WoW and and and 14.
2:49:45Um
2:49:47I think I definitely prefer modern 14 to
2:49:49modern WoW in that regard. But oh boy.
2:49:53Oh, I love I love old slow wow. It's
2:49:56just a good time.
2:49:59We super I don't know. It like it checks
2:50:01a lot of boxes for me because it's a
2:50:02super relaxing thing to like when I when
2:50:05I when I catch that Sunday where I don't
2:50:08need to do anything.
2:50:10It's so much fun to just get into a
2:50:12classic WoW session and just like the
2:50:14hours melt away and you're just kind of
2:50:17like locked in with some kind of
2:50:19meditative thing that you're doing. But
2:50:20it's also very fun to get in there with
2:50:22friends and do some kind of group
2:50:24activity. For me, it's no different than
2:50:26D and D. I slowly chip away. I get my
2:50:29candles. I buy that new item. I get some
2:50:31potions ready. All because I know, you
2:50:33know, Tuesday night, we're going to go
2:50:35in there as a five stack and take on
2:50:37something. And that preparation, I've
2:50:39been having a great time with my
2:50:40preparation for Savage happening
2:50:42tomorrow, too. Like doing my Stone Sky
2:50:44Sea and geming my outfit and getting all
2:50:48geared up. It's relaxing stuff.
2:50:51>> I wish Stone Sky Sea mattered for me.
2:50:54>> It probably doesn't at all. It doesn't.
2:50:57>> I can I can tell you as a healer I I was
2:51:00bored and it did not have any meaning to
2:51:03me at that time.
2:51:04>> You have mentioned it so much and I'm
2:51:05like it seemed like the most useful or
2:51:08useless thing I'd ever done.
2:51:10>> It is. It's integral for my extremely
2:51:12unique situation where I just need to
2:51:15know a rotation and I want a time limit
2:51:17to make it a challenge.
2:51:23>> You're not I know I'm not a DPS. That's
2:51:26that's the conversation we are having.
2:51:29>> That is uh that is the point we are
2:51:31making.
2:51:32>> But let's uh yeah, you will um we'll be
2:51:34back tomorrow. I look forward to hanging
2:51:37out with our buddies Preach and Jesse
2:51:39again as we all
2:51:41on the other side of forever, you know,
2:51:43on the I look forward to talking to them
2:51:45again on the other side of forever.
2:51:48>> Oh my lord. Yeah,
2:51:50>> the buffs are one hour in forever. That
2:51:52doesn't make any sense. I I'm You're
2:51:54You're going to We're going to need to
2:51:55find a different way to say this.
2:51:57>> Buffs only last one hour in forever. No,
2:51:59hang on.
2:52:00>> I I just like Wow F. Just call it Wow F.
2:52:02>> Wow. F.
2:52:04>> Yeah, just Wow. F.
2:52:07>> Let's start naming this [ __ ] like Dragon
2:52:08Ball movies. World of Warcraft
2:52:10Resurrection F X forever.
2:52:15>> Oh yeah, Troll Troll Warlock. Yeah,
2:52:17that's going to be fun. That is That is
2:52:18one sitting kind of peeking at me.
2:52:21>> Oh, is that a new one? Yeah, I was
2:52:22looking at that one thinking that'd be
2:52:24kind of fun.
2:52:24>> That is that is cool.
2:52:26>> But I'm also in love with, you know, I I
2:52:27love being heals and you being tank.
2:52:29Like I just feel like
2:52:30>> dude, you'd have to regen for for life
2:52:32tapping. That's awesome.
2:52:33>> That would be fun. Yeah. Yeah. The spell
2:52:35speed and all that, too. I don't know if
2:52:37that affects how fast your dots go.
2:52:39That'd be interesting. I don't really
2:52:40know. I'm not sure of uh how the
2:52:43snapshot works on spells in that way.
2:52:45You call it fwow.
2:52:49That will be the joke if it's really bad
2:52:52and everyone hates it.
2:52:53>> Oh, I already saw the the name. I forget
2:52:56it. Yeah, there was already the beta for
2:52:58Azeroth name going. Um,
2:53:02but it wasn't that I think that's
2:53:04simpler. I think FY
2:53:05>> you have a you you have like a pet
2:53:07interest in in the meme the meme
2:53:13[ __ ] name for something that will make
2:53:14headlines.
2:53:15>> I love I love takedowns. Uh using I love
2:53:18words. So, I love takedowns.
2:53:24>> 4E.
2:53:28>> Yeah, I guess you could call it Wow. 4E.
2:53:33>> We'll work on it.
2:53:34>> We'll work on We'll work on that.
2:53:35>> I'm going to go get the audio version
2:53:37posted, y'all. Thanks for hanging. We're
2:53:39back tomorrow doing Final Fantasy 14
2:53:40Savage rating. Pint will be joining us
2:53:43um as we uh as we step into uh Arcadian
2:53:47because we never did the third tier. So,
2:53:51we're going to hit that up tomorrow with
2:53:52M9s. Uh Pint keeps joking that we're
2:53:56going to destroy M9s and go straight to
2:53:58quote unquote the [ __ ] brothers.
2:53:59>> I guess I need to study up in case that
2:54:03happens. Bye, everybody. by

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