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World's BEST Trader: EVERYTHING He Learned In 16 Years In Under 60 Minutes — Transcript

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0:00Introducing the one and only Jay Law. He
0:02is a back-to-back world champion trader
0:05in the world's biggest trading
0:07competition. With 350%
0:09in 2024 and over 250% in 2025 in the $1
0:15million real money division.
0:17>> Even if I'm wrong 80% of the time,
0:20mathematically I can still make money
0:23and not lose any. If you do not really
0:26understand what is actually driving the
0:28financial market, you will certainly
0:30lack the conviction to hold on to your
0:32open positions.
0:33>> Such incredible returns back-to-back
0:36years. What's the one thing that stands
0:38out to you that's allowed you to achieve
0:39such a result?
0:40>> Each and every year in the market, there
0:42are actually only one or two moments
0:45where you should be trading very
0:47aggressively. I tend to take the
0:49approach of buying first and then doing
0:51my own research later on.
0:53>> In this episode, Jay Law explains how he
0:55uses simple technical analysis to
0:57achieve world-class results.
0:59>> I remember spending a lot of time
1:01analyzing over a thousand of my own
1:03trades and then I realized, wow, I kept
1:05on making the exact same errors over and
1:08over again. I struggled for several
1:10years. I discovered that the most
1:12efficient way to improve was to when you
1:15go back and review your own past trades,
1:18you will really start to see what kind
1:20of a person you actually are. Human
1:21weaknesses can never be permanently
1:23removed. If it is because of your
1:26emotional trading or if it is because of
1:29your trading technique, then you
1:31actually need to stop. And if you keep
1:33staying in this market, you will
1:35eventually lose everything.
1:38>> For the first time ever, find out his
1:40complete journey of how he became a
1:42two-time trading champion. There are a
1:44particular reward to risk you would have
1:46to have in order to take a trade. So
1:48when you have mistakes now, what is your
1:50process in order to identify them and
1:53try and limit them? How long have you
1:54been using AI to aid your trading? When
1:57it's time to get aggressive, what sort
1:58of risk parameters or profile do you
2:00start to use?
2:01>> All right. First things first, you need
2:04to figure out.
2:06>> Uh I want to get straight into it.
2:08Just a very simple question. Such
2:10incredible returns back-to-back years.
2:14What's the one thing that stands out to
2:16you that's allowed you to achieve such a
2:17result
2:19and with such consistency?
2:21>> First of all, you need to make sure that
2:23you have the right market conditions,
2:25and that is something that you simply
2:27just cannot control. So there is
2:29definitely a certain amount of luck
2:31involved. It just so happens that the
2:33years 2024 and 2025 are overall shaping
2:38up to be a major bull market with a very
2:40clear and strong upward trend.
2:44Even though there was
2:46a market crash in the year 2025,
2:49it recovered from it very quickly. So
2:51there is no denying the fact that market
2:54factors and a certain degree of luck
2:56were definitely involved in it.
2:59Even during those periods of time when
3:02the market gives you a good environment,
3:04you still need to make sure that you
3:06have a system of your own that has been
3:09proven to have a positive expectancy
3:11over time.
3:13>> That was the one thing that actually
3:15really stood out to me is when you say
3:16unique to yourself, like if I'm not
3:18mistaken, yourself taught within the
3:20markets.
3:21>> To some extent, you are going to need to
3:23have a foundation from those individuals
3:26who have gone before you. And many of
3:28the trading legends have already written
3:30a large number of books. But relying on
3:33these books alone is actually not going
3:36to give you a way to get that long-term
3:38setup where you are going to be able to
3:41actually achieve a stable level of
3:43performance. You need to look at your
3:46own individual personality, your
3:48personal strengths, and the advantages
3:51that you have. And then you take what
3:53you have read in books or what other
3:55people have taught you and combine all
3:58of these things together to develop your
4:00own personal method.
4:02>> Is there anything
4:03>> when you look at trying to make
4:05something work for you as an individual
4:07that stands out to you that people
4:08should focus on? Is it you know whether
4:10it's risk or whether it's market
4:13conditions? Is there something that
4:15as a trader they can individualize
4:18and focus on to make a strategy their
4:21own?
4:23>> First of all, I have defined what kind
4:25of a trader I am right now at this
4:27moment in my life because um I have been
4:30through several different market cycles
4:32over the years. Back in the early days
4:34of my career, I was a short-term trader
4:36who was focusing on day trading or quick
4:38swing trades. But coming to where I am
4:40today, the stage of my life has changed
4:42because I have children now. So I want
4:44to focus more of my time on my family.
4:47So that is the reason why I have
4:49transitioned into a style where I am
4:51executing my trades based on relatively
4:54high time frame market structures. Maybe
4:57I am combining position trading with
4:59swing trading and I clearly understand
5:02the logic that is behind each of these
5:04trading styles as well as uh where their
5:07strengths and where their weaknesses
5:09lie.
5:10Once you are able to understand how each
5:13of these trading styles works and
5:15actually the specific market conditions
5:17under which they will succeed or fail,
5:20then well it becomes pretty easy for you
5:22to know exactly which style you should
5:24be using in order to adapt yourself to
5:26the current market. Uh if you are
5:29focusing on short-term trading, um your
5:31understanding of the underlying
5:33fundamental principles does not need to
5:35be quite as deep.
5:37But when you are looking uh at that
5:40price action on the chart, you are going
5:42to need to be sharp knowing under what
5:44circumstances you should be using a
5:46breakout strategy to enter and when you
5:49should be using a pullback strategy and
5:51even when you should be trading against
5:53these uh basic technical analysis
5:56concepts. But if you're looking to hold
5:58on to your trading positions for a
6:00period of time and your personal trading
6:02time frame is relatively long, then you
6:05need to have an understanding of the
6:06macroeconomic environment, as well as
6:09the specific industry and the individual
6:11company stocks. At the very least, these
6:14fundamental factors are uh necessary for
6:17you to consider.
6:20This is something that you need to know,
6:22which gives you more of an edge to um
6:25hold out for a bigger move, especially
6:27when it comes down to position trading.
6:30But speaking for myself personally, uh I
6:33would say that technical analysis is
6:35useful 70% of the time, and for the
6:37other 30% of the time, you are going to
6:40need to uh combine it with fundamental
6:42analysis.
6:44>> And you mentioned transitioning from day
6:47trading to sort of swing position
6:49trading due to the lifestyle changes.
6:51When making that transition, were there
6:53any hurdles that came up? Because the
6:56difference of you know holding trades
6:58for a day versus holding long term can
7:01be troublesome for some people. You know
7:04what was that transition like for you?
7:06>> Actually, when it comes down to the
7:07subject of short-term trading, such as
7:10day trading or very short-term swing
7:12trading, well having a strong foundation
7:15is actually something that is very
7:16important. I would have to say that um
7:19the two of these different things
7:21actually complement one another. If you
7:23are operating as a relatively um
7:26longer-term trader in a way that is sort
7:28of like the William O'Neil style of
7:30trading, which is mainly based on
7:32analyzing the weekly charts, then uh you
7:35still cannot afford to be lacking in
7:37some of the basic understanding of the
7:39principles of technical analysis.
7:41Now, that transition is actually what I
7:44have just mentioned to you, which is how
7:46I understand the fundamentals. For me,
7:49understanding the fundamentals does not
7:51mean analyzing financial statements or
7:54going deep into corporate reports.
7:56Instead of that, I lean toward a more
7:58thematic approach, which is basically
8:00what I refer to as a theme-based trading
8:03style. So I do need to understand, you
8:06know, what the market narrative is going
8:08to look like at that particular point in
8:10time, what kind of uh different themes
8:13the market is going to be chasing after
8:15and what the underlying logic behind all
8:18of it actually is. And actually this is
8:20the specific part of it that uh I think
8:22is going to be relatively crucial. But
8:25for trading techniques, there's no
8:27difference between them. Everyone looks
8:29at the same chart. One is a five minute
8:31chart. The other is a weekly chart.
8:34That's all.
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9:28Now let's go back to the episode.
9:29>> And in terms of this depth of uh
9:31understanding and knowledge of the
9:32markets,
9:34how important is it for you to
9:36go into the past and dissect past market
9:39movements and what's happened in the
9:41past
9:42and how helpful is that into today's
9:43trading?
9:45>> Uh when you have years of research
9:48behind you and you have spent all of
9:51this time observing what is out there,
9:54whether or not we are talking about the
9:56big winner theme or just individual
9:59stocks, actually as you are going
10:01through the market, it is easy to, you
10:03know, make the connection yourself and
10:06see how these sectors might be just like
10:08those sectors back in the day. And a lot
10:11of the times, those stocks that just
10:13keep on climbing, the ones that multiply
10:15in their value, those big winners or
10:18those massive winning stocks, they will
10:20actually give you a very similar market
10:23feel in the way that their uptrend
10:25patterns look.
10:27For example, let us take a look at what
10:29has happened recently. Now that we are
10:31in the month of March of the year 2026,
10:34if we look back at the previous month of
10:36February, we actually saw that the
10:38energy sector was performing in a very
10:41strong manner.
10:44And uh during those earlier months of
10:46the time period, the materials and the
10:49gold sectors were actually continuing to
10:51move in a strong upward trend the entire
10:54way through.
10:56At the same time, technology stocks have
10:58been really struggling. Looking back,
11:00the current market environment is
11:02incredibly similar to 2022 right at the
11:06moment when the Russia-Ukraine war broke
11:08out. Fertilizer stocks just keep on
11:10climbing. The entire energy sector is
11:13surging and alternative energy is also
11:15shooting straight up.
11:17So that is how we take past experience
11:20and apply it to the future.
11:23>> So when you're researching the past, are
11:25there any specifics that you would
11:27mention for others uh to be looking at
11:30in order to get to the point that they
11:32can train themselves
11:34to make those correlations like the
11:36example you just gave?
11:37>> So uh a large number of people have
11:40studied historical stock charts, looking
11:43at how individual stocks have performed
11:45in the past, which is the way that most
11:47people go about doing it. But I think
11:49the key thing that many people miss is
11:51that you need to look at that specific
11:53stock against the broader market context
11:56and see how other stocks were doing at
11:58that same time.
12:01This is going to be the most important
12:03part because this is what gives you the
12:05context. Only when you learn to put
12:07stocks into context can you understand
12:10why a particular stock emerges as the
12:13market leader under specific market
12:15conditions. If you only look back at a
12:18few of these winning stocks, you will
12:20just see a standard uptrend of higher
12:22highs and higher lows, but you are
12:25missing the broader context because you
12:27are not comparing them to how similar
12:29stocks performed at that time. Without
12:32having that, you cannot really know why
12:34that specific stock outperformed.
12:37>> And earlier you mentioned uh that you've
12:39been trading for 16 years. And before
12:42you were trading or at the start of your
12:43career, if I'm not mistaken, you were a
12:45teacher.
12:47Uh was there any element in terms of,
12:49you know, having that sort of teaching
12:51background and learning how to decipher
12:53information, I guess in some sense teach
12:56information? Was that helpful in your
12:58trading journey to be able to take in
13:01all this information and and break it up
13:03into parts to be able to learn at the
13:05depth that you have?
13:07>> Oh, yes, absolutely. I actually became a
13:10teacher because I was a very bad student
13:13in Hong Kong. What does that actually
13:15mean? I was one of those students who
13:17had terrible grades, um who could not
13:20even pass on to the next grade level in
13:22school. But because I wanted to get into
13:24a college later on, I actually sat down
13:27and studied how to learn by myself,
13:29looking at how to study each of those
13:31subjects and um how to take exams in
13:34order to get good grades.
13:36So back when I was still a student
13:38studying in school, I would always first
13:40think about how I could learn things the
13:42fastest and study in the most efficient
13:45way possible. And then in the end, I
13:47managed to get into the university. And
13:49back during that time, being influenced
13:52by some of my teachers, I really wanted
13:54to um become a teacher myself and teach
13:57as well. Yeah. So applying this concept
14:00back to trading, I struggled for several
14:03years and then uh later on I changed.
14:07When I was in the process of making that
14:09transition, actually the first thing I
14:11did was uh start analyzing how to learn
14:15from the
14:16in the most efficient way, instead of
14:18wasting a whole lot of my time, um,
14:21studying random things that were
14:23actually off the point.
14:25I discovered that the most efficient way
14:27to improve was to study my very own
14:30mistakes and see exactly how I went
14:32wrong. I remember spending a lot of time
14:34analyzing over a thousand of my own
14:37trades, and then I realized, wow, I kept
14:39on making the exact same errors over and
14:42over again. They were actually so common
14:44and obvious. So what exactly were these
14:47common mistakes? First of all, the
14:49drawdown was just too big, meaning that
14:52there was no control over it, and the
14:54risk was not being managed in a proper
14:56way. And the second thing is it was a
14:59case of emotional trading. Emotional
15:01trading includes things like, for
15:03example, revenge trading. And also, when
15:06you lose your money, you just really
15:08want to try to make that money back as
15:10quickly as you possibly can.
15:12Uh, it's basically based on emotion, not
15:15on rationality.
15:16>> So with these two points, after
15:18dissecting, you know, all of these
15:19trades, what were the actions at that
15:22point that you took that allowed you to
15:23overcome that and start to
15:26Was that the point after you overcame
15:28that that you started to find
15:29consistency in your trading?
15:31>> You do not instantly, um, make money and
15:35get consistency. It is just not going to
15:37happen that fast. It still takes a
15:39certain amount of time. Even now, at
15:41this stage, these mistakes still happen
15:43every now and then. But, um, I make
15:46fewer of these mistakes now, and at the
15:48same time, I have this awareness where I
15:50realize, oh, here I go once again. I am
15:52about to make the same mistake all over
15:54again. So what I do is actually write
15:58down every single one of these mistakes,
16:00and I keep a constant record of them in
16:02order to make it a key part of my
16:04overall process. I have got a list that
16:07contains, uh, a large number of
16:10different points. Even now, with every
16:12passing year, I still continue to add a
16:15few more of these rules or, you know,
16:17these trading guidelines into this
16:20particular process checklist of mine.
16:23So, I constantly have to keep reminding
16:26myself um that I am only a human being
16:29and that I am going to make mistakes as
16:31well.
16:32But in reality, if you are able to take
16:35your own mistakes, let us say that you
16:38mess up 80% of the time and manage to
16:41cut that down to 40, 30 or 20%, then you
16:44will drastically improve your overall
16:47trading performance.
16:49>> So, when you have mistakes now, what is
16:51your sort of process in order to
16:54identify them and try and limit them?
16:57>> First, reduce the frequency of trading.
16:59Uh go out and play, spend less time in
17:02front of the computer.
17:03>> And when you face drawdowns at this
17:06stage, cuz I know there's going to be a
17:07lot of traders
17:09uh who are also probably partaking in
17:12the US Investing Championships who might
17:13be watching this right now, and no doubt
17:17I imagine a lot of their focus would be
17:19rather than strategy
17:21is going to be how do you handle those
17:22down moments, those drawdowns, those
17:24even rough conditions that we might be
17:26facing right now.
17:28You know, what are your processes to
17:30handling drawdown and handling changes
17:33in market conditions, especially when
17:34they
17:36aren't conducive to maybe your style and
17:39and to be getting those larger gains,
17:42especially in an championship
17:43environment?
17:45>> Actually, the periods of time when you
17:47should be trading aggressively are quite
17:49rare. So, um during these days, I
17:52actually keep a large amount of cash on
17:55hand for the majority of the time with
17:57my cash level remaining at 50% or above
18:00that level.
18:02So, um this particular method of asset
18:06allocation can already help to greatly
18:09reduce your account drawdown while you
18:11are still keeping a card up your sleeve.
18:13As the old Chinese saying goes, you
18:16should always leave yourself a way out.
18:19This is um the way which I always remind
18:23myself when it comes to my own trading
18:25activities. You should always keep some
18:27cash on hand so that when those key
18:30moments happen, you can um enter into
18:33the market and take advantage of the
18:35opportunity that arises.
18:37Let me provide you with an example. Each
18:39and every year in the market, there are
18:42uh actually only one or two moments
18:45where you should like be trading very
18:47aggressively.
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20:27let's get back to the episode.
20:29>> For example, during the majority of the
20:31year 2015,
20:33for a period of about 8 months, the
20:35market was just moving sideways in what
20:37we call a whipsaw type of condition.
20:41Then in the month of August, there was a
20:44sharp sell-off, and if you had only
20:46traded right then, just once a year,
20:49those returns would have been enough for
20:51you. In the month of February of the
20:53year 2016,
20:55there was another opportunity like that.
20:57And then in the month of November, after
20:59Donald Trump uh was elected, a long-term
21:03bull market had started. So there was
21:05indeed an opportunity in November. In
21:07the year 2016, you had two key windows,
21:10which were either in February or in
21:12November. And the 2017 bull market was
21:15extremely similar to 2024.
21:18And that is precisely where the element
21:20of luck comes into play. It does not
21:23mean that you should do absolutely
21:24nothing while waiting for the perfect
21:27setup. Instead, you manage your
21:29exposure, control your position size,
21:32and know exactly when to go all in and
21:34trade aggressively.
21:36Well, when it comes to the world of
21:38investing or trading, in order to
21:41actually do really well, it always comes
21:44down to a few very simple and basic
21:46principles. Everyone has heard of them,
21:49but not everyone is able to do it. When
21:51we look at it in terms of mindset, it is
21:53a matter of patience.
21:56So if you have patience and wait for
21:59those moments to act, you'll actually do
22:01very well.
22:03When we look back at the year 2025, the
22:06very best time for you to make your move
22:08was actually in the month of April. If
22:11your trading window had been just from
22:13April to July, even without entering any
22:16competitions, just trading as an
22:18individual, those 3 months alone would
22:21have been more than enough to make you a
22:23very large amount of money.
22:25>> Few things
22:26>> to go over there, but in terms of
22:28the 2015 example, so during that eight
22:31months, would you not trade at all?
22:34>> No, no. Back in the year of 2015,
22:37I was at that time mainly active in the
22:40Hong Kong stock market. So that was it.
22:44If we look back at the Hong Kong stock
22:46market during the months of April and
22:48May of that year, there was
22:51a big bull market. I made a pretty good
22:53amount of money there, but then later on
22:56I ended up losing all of that money
22:58back. So when I am looking back on it
23:01now, the takeaway that I got from it was
23:03that if you only choose to trade when
23:06the market conditions are right and you
23:08are not being so aggressive during most
23:11of the time, then you can actually
23:13succeed in keeping a large portion of
23:15your profits.
23:17>> When you
23:18mean be more aggressive, what does that
23:20look like for you? So when you in terms
23:23of risk, when it comes to say drawdown
23:26periods or the market conditions not
23:28being
23:29the best for your style,
23:31what do you look to do? And in terms of
23:34risk, do you drop it in terms of
23:35percent? What does that look like? Same
23:37with the aggressive side, when it's time
23:39to get aggressive, what sort of risk
23:41parameters or risk profile do you start
23:43to use?
23:46>> All right. First things first, you need
23:49to figure out the real reason behind
23:52your account's drawdown.
23:54If it is because of your
23:57emotional trading or if it is because of
24:00your trading technique, then you
24:02actually need to stop, go back to
24:04learning and review because your skills
24:07are not quite there yet. And if you keep
24:09staying in this market, you will
24:11eventually lose everything. However, if
24:15your drawdown is simply the result of
24:17changing market conditions causing some
24:20of your accumulated paper profits to be
24:22temporarily given back during a normal
24:25market correction rather than because of
24:27any mistake in your investment process
24:30or poor decision making on your part,
24:33this is actually a normal trading
24:35situation. As long as the specific stock
24:38positions that you are holding at the
24:40present moment, you know, have not been
24:42stopped out yet. The fact of the matter
24:44is that you are going to make the most
24:46money after a market correction phase.
24:50If that's the case, then you need to
24:52control your emotions, uh, analyze
24:55things rationally and wait for the right
24:58opportunity to find the setups you want
25:00to trade so you can actually keep
25:02trading.
25:04When you are thinking in terms of
25:06probabilities and you see a high
25:08expected value setup, uh, looking at it
25:11from a risk to reward perspective, if
25:13the risk to reward ratio is high, you
25:16still need to go ahead and take that
25:17trade even if the win rate is low.
25:20>> Is there a particular reward to risk,
25:23uh, you would have to have in order to
25:25take a trade?
25:26>> At the very least, what I am looking for
25:29is potential. While I cannot control how
25:31much profit a stock is ultimately going
25:34to make, the potential really needs to
25:36reach the next resistance level or what
25:38is a very obvious area of resistance.
25:41That distance simply has to be four to
25:43five times the amount of risk that I am
25:46taking or ideally at least five times.
25:49Even if I'm wrong 80% of the time,
25:52mathematically, I can still make money
25:55and not lose any.
25:58>> And when it comes to, uh, trading within
26:00the competition environment, do you
26:02trade the exact same within a
26:04competition than you do personally or is
26:06there slight differences?
26:08>> Yeah. Yeah. There is definitely going to
26:11be a difference. For my approach in the
26:13competition, because my goal is to
26:16deliver returns, I am much more
26:18aggressive when it comes to that
26:19position size and that risk exposure
26:22compared to my own personal, uh,
26:24personal investing and trading.
26:28Because getting three digit investment
26:30returns, if you are currently utilizing
26:33a well normal position size is actually
26:36unless the market happens to be a very
26:39crazy bull market, otherwise it is
26:41definitely going to be difficult to
26:43achieve in practice. This is um just a
26:46matter of a trade-off. If you are
26:47looking to achieve a three times return
26:50or more um the size of your position has
26:54to be large, but if the size of your
26:56position is large, the volatility of
26:59your account will also be high.
27:01So this is going to depend upon uh your
27:05own personal financial situation and
27:08your own individual level of tolerance
27:11for risk. When it comes down to my own
27:13personal trading, it is actually going
27:15to be much less aggressive.
27:18>> Did we take a look at last year, for
27:20example, in the competition? As
27:21mentioned between you know April and
27:23June, I think it was or or around that
27:25period
27:26uh you mentioned that that you know
27:27could be all you need to trade really if
27:29you trade correctly to make a really
27:32good return for the year. You know what
27:33does that look like whether in the
27:35competition or not, but like what do you
27:36do when
27:37conditions are very favorable and
27:39there's amazing opportunity for you?
27:42You know do you look to increase risk or
27:44when that environment exists?
27:46>> Yes, I would do that. During that
27:49particular period of time uh what I
27:52would definitely choose to do even if I
27:55ended up increasing my overall position
27:57size was that I would actually still
28:00strictly limit the maximum drawdown of
28:03the whole entire account.
28:05In my own personal trades in uh April,
28:09they were relatively aggressive in both
28:12competitions and personally.
28:14>> Do what is the sort of limit you'll
28:16allow for a drawdown?
28:18>> Looking back at the specific situation
28:20in 2025,
28:22well luckily in the month of March I
28:25deployed some short positions and I
28:28managed to make some profit there and
28:30then in the month of April I was able to
28:33use those profits
28:35to finance the risk that I am planning
28:37to take in the month of April. Let us
28:40just say that back in the month of
28:41March, I uh managed to make a 10%
28:45profit. And then once we get to April,
28:47when there is a setup with a massive
28:49risk-to-reward ratio, I will be easily
28:52able to afford to uh let that entire 10%
28:56profit go.
28:59So I basically used those profits in
29:02order to uh build up the size of my
29:04position. Yeah. Now when it comes down
29:07to the way in which I manage my risk, I
29:09calculate the size of my position based
29:12upon the maximum drawdown that a single
29:15individual trade could bring to the
29:17account.
29:17>> Let's take a break for a second there
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31:19>> For example, say my account is up % My
31:22rule is a maximum drawdown of % of my
31:26capital per trade. If a stock has a
31:28reasonable technical stop loss of % I
31:32will allocate exactly % of my portfolio
31:35to that position.
31:37Let's say my account is already up %
31:40under my rules, I risk a maximum of % of
31:44my account per trade with a % technical
31:46stop. Even if I choose to play it safe
31:50and only risk half of that accumulated
31:52profit buffer, I can still take 10
31:55separate trades. Since each single
31:57position is about % of my entire
32:00portfolio, taking 10 trades means I'm %
32:04all in on the market.
32:06But what if that wasn't actually a true
32:08market pivot point? Even if all 10
32:10trades happen to get stopped out, my
32:12account only takes a % drawdown. I've
32:15simply given back half my gains while
32:18still holding on to the remaining %
32:20profit.
32:22If the market hasn't actually bottomed,
32:24I'll just wait. And when the real pivot
32:26finally arrives, I'll still have enough
32:28profits and enough risk budget to
32:30participate in the next opportunity.
32:32>> And off off the back of that, in terms
32:34of
32:35on average, how many trades would you
32:36say you're taking per month for on a on
32:39a regular basis? What's the sort of
32:40average that that looks like?
32:42>> With my current style, there's really no
32:45such thing as an average number of
32:47trades per month because with my current
32:49approach to the market, I only really
32:51trade more often when the timing is
32:53right and when the opportunity is
32:55actually presenting itself to me.
32:58If we take the quarter that we have just
32:59gone through, which are the months of
33:01January, February, and March, where I
33:03saw a pretty high probability of a
33:05whipsaw market, meaning there just were
33:06not many real opportunities out there.
33:08After the strong bull market we had in
33:102023, 2024, and 2025, a lot of stocks
33:14had already made significant moves. I
33:16just wasn't seeing many attractive
33:17trading opportunities. So during that
33:19period, I traded much less.
33:21But then again, on the other hand, if a
33:23truly massive opportunity suddenly comes
33:26along, I might very well end up trading
33:28a lot more during that specific month.
33:31So it really all depends on my own
33:32analysis and whether or not I feel it is
33:35the right time to step in. If the
33:36necessary conditions are not there, I
33:38will barely be trading at all. So if we
33:41were to look at it on a yearly basis and
33:43take the year 2025 as an example, I made
33:46about 200 trades.
33:48>> So then
33:50during these conditions as a swing
33:51trader, uh predominantly a position
33:53trader,
33:55you know, what do you do? Do you still
33:56just take maybe some opportunities
33:58short-term in the meantime or do you
34:00just completely step back and wait?
34:03>> Well, I am still going to be able to
34:05keep on taking a few of these smaller
34:07trades from time to time. But as I have
34:10already mentioned at the beginning about
34:12my own trading style, I just need to
34:14find myself a relatively clear theme
34:17that I can work with.
34:19Because of the fact that well, even when
34:22we are in a bad market environment,
34:23there are always going to be some of the
34:25sectors and some of the stocks that are
34:27going to be going up. So uh if you
34:29happen to find these kinds of themes,
34:32you might as well just go ahead and give
34:33them a try for yourself. For example, in
34:35recent times, I have still been making
34:37some trades, but I am focusing more of
34:39my attention on the energy sector.
34:42But the energy sector is relatively
34:44cyclical, so it is harder to size your
34:46position to hold on to it for a bigger
34:48move.
34:49>> So when
34:51uh seeing what's happened and how it's
34:53impacted the market in terms of uh the
34:55situation with Iran and and the US and
34:58as you said like that kind of was
34:59similar to uh the Ukraine um you know it
35:03could just a few years ago.
35:06When something like that begins to
35:07happen
35:08do you
35:09is there certain actions uh that you're
35:11automatically sort of start to look at?
35:13So when that kicked off, did you
35:15automatically start to look at okay the
35:17opportunity probably will be in energy
35:20and are there sort of knock on effects
35:22that you look to
35:23uh look in the markets to be able to
35:25then position yourself accordingly?
35:28>> Okay, well the stock market actually
35:30always prices these kinds of things in
35:32advance. It is not like those specific
35:35sectors of the market only start to move
35:37right at the moment when the war
35:39actually breaks out, but rather they
35:41always react well before the news even
35:43hits the headlines.
35:45Yes, so quite usually whenever these
35:48specific sectors or individual stocks
35:50first begin to make a move, I actually
35:52have absolutely no idea why it is
35:54happening. So in those particular
35:55moments, I tend to take the approach of
35:57buying first and then doing my own
35:59research later on. Back in the past, I
36:02would typically just jump right into a
36:03few stock positions first and then try
36:06to figure out the actual reasons for
36:08doing so later on. But to be completely
36:10honest, things are so much easier and
36:12far more convenient now and that is all
36:14thanks to AI.
36:16So artificial intelligence basically
36:18helps you to quickly figure out what is
36:20going on and then you are able to judge
36:22for yourself if the reasoning actually
36:25makes sense. If it does, it will give
36:27you much more conviction to either hold
36:29on to your position or make the trade.
36:31>> I'm glad you brought AI because uh you
36:34know it's a a reoccurring theme more
36:36recently across interviews
36:39in terms of uh
36:40the application of of AI within trading.
36:43Like can we talk about,
36:45you know, what that looks like for you?
36:47Like when did you first start to
36:48implement the use of AI within your
36:50trading? What does that look like in
36:52terms of how you're doing that? And as
36:54you said, when using it correctly. So
36:56what does that mean in terms of using it
36:58correctly?
36:59Cuz no doubt
37:01you probably see a lot of people trying
37:02to use it, but maybe they're using it
37:04incorrectly and not
37:06using it in a way that would be
37:08efficient and actually give them
37:09something,
37:10whether it's actionable in the sense of
37:12trading, but something that's valuable
37:14as a trader.
37:15>> Yeah. Uh how interesting using
37:18artificial intelligence like that.
37:20Because if you ask it good questions,
37:22you are going to get back good answers.
37:24But if you ask it garbage, you are going
37:27to get back garbage. As for me,
37:29actually, everything starts with
37:31momentum first of all. And only when
37:33there is momentum will I start to pay
37:35attention to it and begin to trade.
37:38So the very first question that I would
37:39like to ask you is this. During that
37:42very specific period of time, why
37:44exactly did this particular stock move
37:46from one price level to another? And for
37:48what reason did it go up by such a
37:50significant amount?
37:52So what I always do first is to ask the
37:54artificial intelligence a this question,
37:57and then I wait for it to gather some
37:59quick and brief reasons for me. Once it
38:01has generated those initial points, I
38:03will take that response and feed it
38:05directly into a completely different
38:07artificial intelligence just to ask if
38:09the whole thing actually makes sense.
38:12Then I ask AI B if there are any other
38:15possible answers that AIA might have
38:18completely missed. After doing that, I
38:20copy and paste the response from AI B
38:22right back into AIA and tell it, look,
38:25your opponent has come up with these
38:26specific points. Are there any other
38:28factors that you did not think of
38:30initially? This entire process ensures
38:32that you will get a much more
38:33comprehensive answer in the end.
38:35Then you can look at these catalysts and
38:38the news events which might point you
38:40towards some fundamental changes or
38:42perhaps even some really unique
38:44catalysts. From there, you will be able
38:47to decide if the entire thing actually
38:49makes sense. Now, if you do not
38:51completely understand why this
38:53particular company's business is
38:55reacting to these specific catalysts,
38:57then your very next step is to follow up
39:00and ask the AI assistant to explain what
39:02the company actually does. But whatever
39:04you decide to do, please make sure that
39:06you do not make your questions too
39:07complicated.
39:09Yes, and right after that, I actually
39:11ended up learning this very useful trick
39:13from Jensen Huang. I will ask the AI to
39:15explain what the company does and then
39:17tell it to explain it to me as if I am
39:1918 years old.
39:21>> Playing a dangerous game, playing the AI
39:23bots against each other this early on.
39:25But um
39:27is it you know in terms of the the AI
39:29chats that you're using or the the bots
39:30that you're using, is there a particular
39:33um software that you
39:36are looking to use? Cuz I know a lot of
39:37people know about ChatGPT, for example,
39:39but at this point there's
39:41you know AI uh AI are changing every day
39:44and getting better and better and
39:45better. It's getting very competitive.
39:46Is there particular programs that you
39:48choose to use to to facilitate uh this
39:50back and forth that you're doing?
39:52>> As for myself, my own setup is actually
39:55quite simple. I just use the mainstream
39:57artificial intelligence tools that
39:59everyone else is using, such as Gemini,
40:01Grok, and ChatGPT. The real secret is
40:04knowing exactly what each individual
40:06model is best at and then providing them
40:08with prompts based on those specific
40:10strengths. For instance, I find that
40:12Gemini is much better when it comes to
40:14performing a deep analysis.
40:16Now, whenever it comes to doing deep
40:18analytical work, I personally prefer to
40:21let Gemini handle all of that. However,
40:23Grok is incredibly fast, especially when
40:25you are in need of the most up-to-date
40:27and accurate information because it is
40:29backed directly by X. It is able to pull
40:31real-time updates exactly as they happen
40:34on the platform.
40:35So I use different artificial
40:37intelligence tools based on their
40:38features. It is just as simple as that.
40:41And once I have an understanding of um
40:43the driving force behind the price of
40:45the stock, the next step for me is to go
40:47over to the charts in order to find my
40:49entry point.
40:50>> How long have you been using AI?
40:52To aid your trading? And then,
40:54the second point being, do you believe
40:57traders who aren't using AI at all? We
40:59talked about
41:00wrong, for example.
41:02Hopefully, you know, they'll start to
41:03improve. But, you know, those who are
41:05maybe be hesitant or not using it
41:07whatsoever, do you think it's actually
41:09holding them back potentially?
41:10Especially when you look to the future
41:12and the growth that AI is going to
41:13continue to have.
41:15Do you think traders are doing
41:16themselves a disservice from not using
41:18it?
41:19>> So, starting all the way back in the
41:21year 2024, right after the ChatGPT
41:23moment first took off, I began
41:25incorporating artificial intelligence
41:27into my daily routine. But back in those
41:30days, the technology was not nearly as
41:32smart, and the answers that it gave to
41:33me were just not very accurate. It was
41:35not until the third or fourth quarter of
41:372025 that artificial intelligence truly
41:40evolved and became a real assistant for
41:42me.
41:43Now, when it comes to the question of
41:45whether traders should be using AI, I
41:47think that it completely depends upon
41:49your own time frame. For day traders,
41:51there is really no need for it at all.
41:53You just need to trade assets that are
41:55actively moving, capture your gains in a
41:57very short window of time, and then
41:59simply hit and run.
42:01Now, if your own personal style is more
42:04along the lines of a hybrid investor and
42:06trader, or if you are someone who tends
42:08to hold your positions for a much longer
42:10period of time, then incorporating AI
42:13directly into your personal workflow is
42:15going to be incredibly helpful. It is
42:17going to save you a massive amount of
42:19time, allowing you to very quickly
42:21identify exactly what the underlying
42:23drivers are behind the market.
42:26If you do not really understand what is
42:28actually driving the financial market,
42:30making the correct trading decisions
42:32becomes so much more difficult, and you
42:34will certainly lack the conviction to
42:37hold on to your open positions. Even for
42:39those swing traders who only hold their
42:41trades for about two weeks, I still
42:43think that AI is going to be incredibly
42:46useful.
42:47You know, lately, if you take a close
42:49look at the stock market over the last
42:51few years, you will notice that a great
42:53number of stocks will have this massive
42:55gap up, perhaps because of their
42:57earnings or some other catalyst. And
42:59after that huge jump, they simply never
43:02look back again.
43:03Now, if you do not truly and fully
43:06understand the underlying reasons behind
43:08that particular market move, you are
43:10certainly going to miss out on a great
43:12number of trading opportunities. And the
43:14reason for that is simply because
43:16whenever it comes to these specific
43:18trading setups, you will actually need
43:20to possess a thorough and solid
43:22understanding of the fundamental factors
43:25that are driving that gap up.
43:28Now, if a market move is driven by a
43:30highly significant fundamental change,
43:32it can actually be extremely difficult
43:35for it to form those classic chart
43:37patterns that most traders recognize. In
43:39fact, it might not form any kind of
43:42patterns at all and simply continue
43:44climbing steadily upward at a 45° angle.
43:48Exactly. Once you have gained that
43:50deeper underlying knowledge, you will be
43:52able to use a variety of different
43:54approaches in order to enter these
43:56trades, which will naturally increase
43:58your overall trading opportunities.
44:02>> One thing we've discussed a few times in
44:04the part is obviously different trading
44:06opportunities and you've mentioned short
44:08opportunities a few times. Like what's
44:09the distribution between your longs
44:11versus shorts? Do you favor one over the
44:13other at all?
44:14>> The vast majority of my trades are on
44:17the long side. I only take short
44:19positions when relatively rare
44:21opportunities present themselves. And
44:23even then, I don't short very often. The
44:26reason I short is simply to capture some
44:29very short-term downside opportunities
44:31and build a bit of a profit cushion for
44:33my account.
44:36The opportunities I take on the short
44:38side are simply there to build a small
44:40profit cushion for my account so that
44:42later on I can take my subsequent trades
44:44with much less psychological pressure,
44:46make decisions more decisively, and
44:48execute those trades more confidently
44:50and with greater ease.
44:55Also, during market corrections, having
44:58a small short position can help balance
45:01your emotions and make it easier to stay
45:03objective. That's really the primary
45:06purpose. It's meant to be a
45:07complementary tool rather than a core
45:10part of my trading strategy. I myself
45:14have had some relatively scary
45:15experiences with shorting stocks in the
45:17past, and there were times when I tried
45:19doing it and ended up losing a huge
45:21amount of money. And then after having
45:23had many years of market experience, I
45:25actually tend to see the opportunities
45:27on the long side of things.
45:31It is indeed absolutely massive, far
45:34outweighing the short side of the
45:35market. Take a stock, for example.
45:40Theoretically speaking, the upside can
45:42be massive or even infinite, but on the
45:44short side, your potential gains will be
45:47limited to a double-digit percentage.
45:50And the absolute biggest problem is that
45:52I simply cannot overcome one thing by
45:55myself. Maybe there are some people who
45:57can do it, but as for me personally, it
45:59is a very major struggle. The thing is
46:01it is extremely hard for me to let go of
46:03a bias. If I am completely set on going
46:05short and then I have to immediately
46:07flip my position to long, that is simply
46:09not an easy thing for me to do.
46:12In the past, I have also found on many
46:14occasions that I was able to make money
46:16by going short at the beginning, but
46:19then after that, I would actually miss
46:21out on a massive opportunity to go long
46:23right after that.
46:25>> And
46:26as we come towards the end of the
46:28podcast, I want to just do some maybe
46:29like quick fire topics because they
46:32won't be maybe correlated,
46:34so we can cover as much as possible.
46:37One of which being
46:39on the topic of correlation,
46:41when trading themes, do you have like a
46:44limit of the risk exposure you'll have
46:47on a particular sector?
46:49So let's take, I don't know, the energy
46:51or semiconductors, for example, like
46:54there will be a numerous stocks that you
46:57could choose from.
46:58And how do you go about making sure
47:00you're not too heavily correlated in
47:01terms of risk on a particular sector? Do
47:04you limit the exposure towards in a
47:06sector or?
47:09>> the 24 and 25 competitions, it was
47:12really theme driven and also very
47:14focused.
47:16If you are currently looking to achieve
47:18a super performance, you really need to
47:20focus your attention on those key
47:22themes. Once you are able to catch them
47:24right, that is where you are going to
47:25get a huge return. Now, I do not compete
47:28every single year and I do not have any
47:30need to constantly use this competition
47:32approach in order to trade in a very
47:34focused way.
47:38Personally, I prefer to make use of
47:40asset allocation in order to diversify
47:43my risk. For example, as I have
47:46mentioned to you earlier, maybe out of
47:48the total of my assets, actually more
47:51than 50% of it is held in cash. I have
47:55actually ended up opening quite a few
47:57different types of trading accounts
47:59because each and every one of these
48:00accounts plays a slightly different
48:02role. Some of those accounts are meant
48:04for lower risk swing trading, while
48:06other accounts might be used for more
48:08aggressive swing trading. For those
48:10types of accounts, I prefer to focus on
48:12a specific theme for each of them.
48:15There are also some accounts available,
48:17for example, which are used for position
48:20trading. And then there are also some
48:21other accounts that are used for index
48:23based investing, which are designed for
48:25the relatively long-term holdings of
48:28some index ETFs.
48:30Everyone's financial situation is going
48:32to be different. If you are currently
48:34looking to grow smaller accounts using
48:37this particular kind of asset allocation
48:39and diversification is going to be a
48:41slow process. Trying to grow your entire
48:43portfolio as a whole is just going to be
48:46a slow process.
48:47If you want to grow a small account
48:49quickly, it is honestly going to be
48:51inevitable. You are going to have to
48:53focus on a specific theme and
48:56concentrate your investments because
48:58that is how you are going to get fast
49:00But when you get to a certain level in
49:02your trading, you have to ask yourself
49:04the question whether or not you still
49:06need to take that particular kind of
49:08risk and whether you should continue to
49:10trade in that same style.
49:13Maybe at some point further down the
49:15line, you will find that you need to
49:17start dividing your assets into
49:18different categories. And why is it that
49:21I want to hold a little bit more cash?
49:23Actually, the reason why I am doing this
49:25is just to give myself some peace of
49:27mind. If I really, for example, end up
49:30doing very, very poorly on a certain
49:32account, I will still have some cash
49:34left over so that I can just try to do
49:36it again later on.
49:38>> Talking of like small accounts, I I
49:40don't know if you've shared before or
49:43are open to sharing, but in terms of
49:45like when you first started trading,
49:46first first started trading, what
49:48account sizes did you begin with? And
49:50then as you scaled, were there any
49:53hurdles to managing a larger capital,
49:56larger risk, a larger profit sizes,
49:59a larger drawdowns?
50:01And if you did have hurdles, how did you
50:03look to overcome those mental barriers
50:07to these new higher numbers?
50:09>> Yes. Back when I was uh just starting
50:11out in the field of trading and my
50:13trading account was still relatively
50:15small, I experienced losing all of my
50:17trading capital and I also lost 80% or
50:2090% of my entire trading account
50:23balance, which actually happened to me
50:25on several different occasions. But I
50:27just kept on going forward and I made
50:29the decision to keep on trading.
50:31So as I mentioned at the beginning of
50:33this interview, throughout your
50:35professional career as a financial
50:37trader, you are going to need to have
50:39some lucky moments along the way.
50:41My lucky break came back in 2017.
50:44Uh although 2018 wasn't exactly a year
50:47of great performance, but that year um I
50:50managed to survive. And then we had 2019
50:53and uh that pandemic low in 2020.
50:57Honestly, those four years of my life
50:59were I would personally call my own
51:01lucky years, mainly because of the fact
51:04that I was actually able to catch the
51:06rhythm of the financial market, and that
51:08really allowed me to be able to
51:09significantly grow the balance of my own
51:11account. I know uh if I just continue to
51:15keep going as the size of my account
51:17gets bigger and then I happen to
51:18experience an unlucky year, I would end
51:21up giving back a large portion of that
51:23money.
51:24So actually um when it just so happens
51:27that your own personal technical skills
51:29align with some good luck and you manage
51:31to make a decent amount of money for
51:33yourself in the process, that is the
51:35point when you need to start thinking
51:37about how you can keep going forward and
51:39survive in this market over the long
51:41term. So in order to grow a big account,
51:44you are going to have to take some risks
51:45along the way.
51:47But to summarize it all, once you take a
51:49risk to a certain point, you are going
51:51to need to start reducing your risk.
51:53>> And then when it came to a few times
51:55you've said
51:57that you understand yourself well. Like
51:59are there certain practices that you've
52:00done in order to have that sort of
52:03self-reflection and be able to
52:04understand you know how you're reacting
52:06and and what you need to do in order to
52:10stay on path and and execute your edge
52:12well.
52:13>> Okay. Well, first and foremost of all,
52:16when you um go back and review your own
52:19past trades, you will really start to
52:21see what kind of a person you actually
52:23are. When it comes to my own uh trading
52:25rules, the first few lines of text are
52:28actually there to describe what kind of
52:30a person I am. I still keep them on my
52:32mobile phone up to this very day.
52:35Um so the first sentence of this text
52:37basically says that I am a very
52:39emotional person in my daily life. I
52:41need to uh describe this first of all to
52:43you because it serves as a constant
52:45reminder to myself of that, of how
52:47extremely emotional I used to be during
52:49my trading activities.
52:51Actually, what you need to do is to uh
52:53make a summary of all of your
52:55weaknesses, write down a description of
52:57each of them, and then after that you
52:59just have to accept them for what they
53:01are because these human weaknesses can
53:03never be permanently removed, and this
53:05is something that probably involves a
53:07lot of your subconscious mind, your
53:09personal growth process, and your own
53:12individual personality.
53:15So, instead of constantly trying to fix
53:17all of these personal flaws, it is
53:19actually much better for you to just
53:21accept them and simply acknowledge who
53:24you truly are as an individual. From
53:26that point forward, you can utilize your
53:28own trading rules to actively prevent
53:30yourself from falling right back into
53:32those same old traps and making those
53:35exact same mistakes all over again.
53:38So, this method of yours is actually
53:40designed in order to help you compensate
53:42for your own personal flaws.
53:45For example, if you find that you are um
53:48an emotional trader, could you set up
53:49some rules for yourself, such as, for
53:51instance, not trading during the first
53:5415 minutes of the market opening? Or um
53:56when you happen to reach a certain
53:58percentage, let us say, for example, a
54:0020% gain, you must make it a rule to
54:02strictly take some of your partial
54:03profits.
54:05That is the reason why you need to have
54:07these trading rules in order to keep
54:09your weaknesses from being magnified in
54:12your trading.
54:14>> And to to finish up, there's I'm sure
54:16loads of other topics we can go into,
54:17but um hopefully we'll get to do a part
54:19two one day.
54:21I will a few just very quick one. One,
54:23are you participating in the US
54:25Championships again this year?
54:26>> No.
54:27>> No?
54:27>> No. No.
54:28>> Double champ and and retired undefeated.
54:31Um but final uh two questions. One,
54:33because I know, as I mentioned earlier,
54:36there'll be a lot of your fellow
54:37competitors over the years who'll be
54:38probably watching this right now, um you
54:41know, what would be your message to
54:42them? Um you know, your fellow
54:44competitors in the in the Championships,
54:46uh what would be your message to them?
54:49>> You just have to enjoy it because um you
54:51need to enjoy playing this game and have
54:54a passion for it so that no matter what
54:56kind of environment you might find
54:58yourself in, you will be willing to keep
55:00on moving forward.
55:02Because if we are going to be completely
55:04honest with ourselves, no one can ever
55:06guarantee that you will always perform
55:09at your absolute best. You are bound to
55:11experience some periods of downtime, and
55:14you will definitely go through some
55:15really difficult times, but you will
55:17also have those moments of truly
55:19incredible success.
55:22So I honestly think your passion is the
55:24key factor here. I mean, when you are
55:26inevitably going through those difficult
55:28low points in your trading journey or
55:30during those frustrating phases when the
55:32market just doesn't seem to have any
55:34clear direction, how exactly do you
55:36manage to keep yourself grounded? How do
55:38you stay resilient and motivated enough
55:41to stay in the game despite the
55:43uncertainty?
55:44You continue to spend all of your time
55:46searching for market setups, diving into
55:49the investment world instead of being
55:51with your family or having some fun. And
55:53I truly believe that at the very end of
55:56the day, the absolute key to success is
55:58having that genuine passion inside of
56:00you. This is something that goes far
56:02beyond simply possessing mere technical
56:04skills, and it is ultimately the most
56:06crucial factor that allows you to stay
56:08active in the market and keep
56:10participating for 10, 20, or even more
56:13years to come. And the second thing that
56:15is important is you will need to
56:17continue to keep on growing and uh learn
56:20how you can keep an open mind because it
56:23is possible that your method might um
56:25only have a chance to work at certain
56:27points in time.
56:29While the truth is that they can stop
56:31working, you really do need to keep a
56:32very open mind and maintain a strong
56:35mindset of constantly refining and
56:37improving your own techniques while
56:39always upgrading your personal skills.
56:41And also, in addition,
56:44it is absolutely essential that you
56:46remain open to other trading styles.
56:49Whenever you see a different strategy
56:51that is getting results, you do not
56:53necessarily need to copy it step by
56:55step, but you should definitely try to
56:57understand the core logic behind why it
57:00actually works.
57:01Developing this kind of understanding
57:03will actually give you a much more
57:05comprehensive view of the market. You
57:08will know exactly what different
57:10participants are doing and see which
57:12specific market conditions create the
57:14best opportunities for each individual
57:17player.
57:18>> Jay Lo, it's been an absolute honor to
57:20have you with us today and I thank you
57:21so much for allowing us to host you on
57:23the platform as well.
57:25Everyone at home,
57:26such an incredible interview, a first in
57:28Words of Wisdom history in terms of what
57:31we've done here today. So I thank you
57:32all for your support and everyone who's
57:34here as well. I was blown away by the
57:36interpretation. I don't know how you
57:37remember so much. I'll need you need
57:39some notes on that.
57:40But drop a comment of your biggest
57:42takeaway from this episode. Links for
57:44Jay Lo will be in the description below.
57:46So make sure you check those out as
57:47well. Hit like, hit subscribe. Other
57:50episodes are on screen right now and
57:52until next time, take care.

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