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Women in Leadership | Navigating Bias, Labels & Leading with Confidence — Transcript

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0:09Welcome to our podcast. Uh, somewhere
0:12between bad bosses, HR nightmares, and
0:15burnout. We realize no one actually
0:18teaches you how to lead. So, we're
0:21talking about it the real way. This is
0:24barely manageable because leadership
0:27isn't perfect and neither is this
0:29podcast. It's barely manageable.
0:32>> I'm Dana Kelly and I'm Mary Lincolnis
0:35and we're not experts. We just have
0:37decades of experience with supervision
0:39and management along with some unique
0:42experiences with just muddling through.
0:44>> Yep. So Mary a man in leadership is
0:49called confident. Oh,
0:51>> but a woman in leadership is called
0:54>> a lot of things.
0:56>> What things?
0:56>> Too emotional,
0:58too intimidating,
1:00too nice, too direct, too soft.
1:04>> The B- word,
1:09>> too aggressive,
1:11>> I've not been ever called that.
1:12>> Or not aggressive enough.
1:14>> Or not aggressive enough. Mhm.
1:15>> And somehow we're expected to remember
1:17birthdays, regulate team emotions, lead
1:20meetings, mentor staff, answer emails at
1:239:00 p.m., and plan the potluck.
1:26>> Yep.
1:27>> And don't forget our kids.
1:29>> Practice, pick up birthday gifts, plan
1:32dinners, pick up groceries, and eat so
1:35much protein.
1:37So much protein. Don't forget your
1:39weightbearing exercises.
1:40>> Oh, weight bearing exercises. Oh, and
1:42sleep. Eight hours. You still have to
1:44get some sleep and all that. When are
1:46you getting the sleep?
1:48>> You're doing all that stuff at work and
1:50at home. When are you sleeping? When am
1:52I when am I doing everything?
1:55>> What's happening? So, we're talking
1:56about women in leadership today.
1:58>> Okay. Wow. This is going to open a can
2:02of worms.
2:02>> Oh, so many worms.
2:04>> All right.
2:04>> As long as you don't eat them. Don't eat
2:05the worms.
2:06>> Well, but I do have something we can
2:08eat.
2:09>> Oh, you brought something for us to eat.
2:11>> Oh my gosh. So excited. You know, we
2:14mention Oreos in about every episode.
2:16>> Well, you do.
2:17>> Well, I do, and I don't know why, but
2:19>> she doesn't even like Oreos that much.
2:22>> That's not true. I love Oreos. Oreo,
2:24please sponsor us.
2:26>> Okay, so uh because we mentioned Oreos
2:29so much, and I guess people resonate
2:30with that. And we did get a lot of
2:32feedback on
2:33>> the cookies.
2:35And I'm And I'm losing.
2:37>> You are losing.
2:38>> I'm losing. I like the chocolatey
2:40cookie. My husband also agreed with you.
2:43>> Oh, thanks, Robert.
2:44>> He didn't vote online, but he did tell
2:46me.
2:46>> All right. Well, one I have one behind
2:48me. Everyone else seems to really love
2:50that cream.
2:51>> That's right. And a lot of it.
2:53>> And a lot of it. Like some people said
2:55that they would take three different
2:56cookies and eat the cream.
2:57>> Put all the cream together. Anyway, so
3:00>> middle management is the cream.
3:02>> Middle management is the cream.
3:04>> Whether you like it or not. I mean, I
3:05guess people love us and they love
3:08double
3:09>> double the stuff of us. I don't know.
3:11Anyway,
3:12>> but one of our listeners recommended and
3:16if you're watching um here's the lovely
3:19picture of these Oreos limited edition
3:22firecracker pop. I guess they can't call
3:24it bomb pop because that probably is
3:26>> probably, you know,
3:28>> when I was a kid and I would go out to
3:30the ice cream truck, I would get that
3:32was your bomb pop. And this is the sherb
3:35sherbet orange push-ups.
3:37>> Ew, gross. And the cardboard. That look.
3:40All right. No wonder you like the cream.
3:42I I see where you're going. Um this is
3:46the only thing that I make the
3:47exception. My I have a rule.
3:50>> Oh,
3:50>> that I don't eat blue things.
3:53>> Oh,
3:54>> things that are dyed blue, I don't eat
3:56them.
3:57>> That's interesting.
3:58>> I just don't I can't psychologically I
4:01can't make myself do it.
4:03>> Okay. But today you're gonna push
4:04through.
4:04>> Today I'm gonna push through. And I do
4:06also like I mean I do like a bomb pop. I
4:08can't say how long it's been since I've
4:10had one. It's been a very very long
4:11time. But I do remember the taste of a
4:13bomb pop and I like it. But so um these
4:17are firecracker pop flavored Oreo. It
4:20says um Okay. First of all, they're not
4:23chocolate cookies.
4:24>> No.
4:24>> So I may not like the cookie part of
4:26this. They're vanilla cookies,
4:29>> but they're not vanilla inside. I know
4:31like the inside
4:33it's three different colors.
4:35>> Okay.
4:36>> Layers.
4:36>> Yes.
4:38>> Red
4:40is cherry.
4:41>> Mhm.
4:42>> Um the white is lemon
4:45>> and blue is blue raspberry.
4:47>> You're going to love that.
4:49>> It's going to be
4:49>> We're going to try them.
4:50>> Let's do it.
4:51>> Okay.
4:51>> I'm ready. I didn't have I don't have
4:53milk in my cup, but I'll I'll suffer
4:55through.
4:55>> Okay. I'm going to take one.
4:58You take one. Okay.
5:00>> Okay.
5:02>> It's uh it's colorful. It's red, white,
5:05and blue. America,
5:08you just took your top off already.
5:10>> Well, I didn't know we weren't not doing
5:12that.
5:13>> Of her cookie. She took her top off of
5:15her cookie.
5:16>> I didn't think it's not that kind of
5:17show.
5:18>> You don't Do you Do you Is that how you
5:20normally eat them? How do you normally
5:21eat your Oreo?
5:23>> Okay. Well, eat it however you normally
5:25eat it. I'm just going to take a bite
5:28away from the microphone.
5:33That's a lot of filling.
5:43So good.
5:46I love it so so much.
5:56Oh my goodness.
5:57>> That's not my favorite.
5:59>> That's delicious.
6:04So bad. I mean, so good.
6:08What's killing it for me is that blue
6:10raspberry.
6:11>> It's the cherry for me.
6:12>> Is it? Maybe it is the cherry.
6:14>> It's the cherry.
6:15>> Something's real strong in there.
6:16>> The cherry is really strong.
6:19>> Wow. Okay. Well,
6:22we're going to go with we like the
6:24regular Oreos better.
6:25>> Yes,
6:26>> we love regular Oreos. But if you are
6:28looking for an adventure, if you're
6:30looking for an adventure in your mouth,
6:33>> you should try these. Oreo limited
6:36edition firecracker pop.
6:38>> That was quite a surprise.
6:39>> My kids are going to love these. I'm
6:41going to have to drink some water.
6:47>> Hey, you know what? What?
6:50>> A lot of people love this mug.
6:52>> Oh my gosh. Like, so many people love
6:54this mug.
6:55>> Like, people love this mug. It is a
6:57really good mug.
6:58>> You You made some really good choices
7:00when you got this mug.
7:01>> Thank you. Thank you. Well, we're going
7:03to give two people a chance to win.
7:07>> We're gonna have lots of people chances
7:09to win.
7:10>> Oh, yeah. Only two will.
7:13>> Better said. Better said. Okay. So, this
7:16is what we need you to do. We need you
7:18to send us your story. Yes. Can be about
7:21a bad boss. Can be about a co-orker
7:25going rogue, boss going rogue, you going
7:28rogue. Um, it can be about awkward
7:31development conversations.
7:33>> Women in leadership.
7:35>> Yes. Women in leadership. Um, what else?
7:39>> I mean, just send us your good stories.
7:41We know that you have them. We've heard
7:43them. We want you to uh stay anonymous.
7:46Don't worry about that.
7:47>> You will be anonymous. We will not share
7:50your secrets.
7:51>> Yes. But also, there is a catch.
7:53>> But you can't be anonymous to us or we
7:55won't know where to send your mug if you
7:56win.
7:57>> We do need your information. Uh so send
8:00it on barely manageableodcast
8:03atgmail.com.
8:05Your stories. Please follow us on our
8:08socials
8:09and subscribe to our podcast on whatever
8:13platform you listen to us on.
8:15>> Yes. And once you do all of those
8:17things, we will do a drawing.
8:19>> We will do a drawing. We'll And we'll
8:21draw for two.
8:22>> Yep. Two mugs.
8:24>> Send two mugs out. So, make sure you
8:26also include your contact information,
8:28name, address.
8:30>> Yep.
8:30>> Yep. All right. Good.
8:32>> When Wait, wait. When is the the
8:34>> You have until July 7th.
8:36>> July 7th.
8:39>> Cheers.
8:39>> Cheers.
8:43M
8:45yum.
8:46>> Okay. Well, just like those cookies,
8:50women in leadership can also be an
8:52adventure. Can be a surprise.
8:54>> Yes, it can be such a surprise. Woo!
8:56Surprise.
8:58>> I do think those cookies are a lot like
9:00women in leadership.
9:02>> Okay.
9:02>> Um
9:03>> I'm ready for your analogy.
9:04>> A I know you are a good hard
9:10exterior.
9:11>> Oh. And some soft squishiness inside.
9:16>> Squishiness.
9:18Okay.
9:21That could or could not taste delicious.
9:24>> This is going to be a wonderful episode
9:26because this is in my teeth now.
9:27>> Mhm. Okay. Yummy.
9:31Let's stick with the regular.
9:32>> I'm gonna tell you, if y'all have more
9:34Oreos that you want us to try online,
9:36>> we'll do it. We'll take one for the
9:38team.
9:38>> Oh my goodness.
9:39>> We'll do it.
9:40>> All right. All
9:42right. I've got the story today. I don't
9:44really Okay, good. Because
9:46>> Did you forget that you didn't have the
9:48story? You were like, "Oh, no. I have
9:49the story."
9:50>> Yes, it's me.
9:51>> I'm so glad you have it because I didn't
9:53have anything written down here.
9:54>> That's good. So, okay. So it's not
9:57really a story as much as it is like
10:00just about in particular women in
10:02leadership especially even well not
10:05especially but even in for us uh female
10:09majority fields like healthcare
10:12um education human resources
10:14um
10:17we're under reppresented
10:19in leadership did you know that
10:22>> we're over represented in represented
10:26we're over represented in the field but
10:29under represented in leadership.
10:30Interesting.
10:32>> It actually says that um it's called the
10:34broken rung and for every 100 men
10:38promoted significantly fewer women and
10:41even fewer women of color advance
10:45uh in in leader into leadership
10:49positions. Mhm. So I I thought that was
10:52like super interesting especially in and
10:55as we know for us I mean what we're like
11:0092% women in our field.
11:03>> Yes for sure.
11:04>> So yeah it says despite being
11:06overwhelmingly majority in the field 92%
11:09at bachelor level women are
11:11underrepresented in higher level
11:13corporate government and large nonprofit
11:15executive roles.
11:17So, I found that very interesting. Um,
11:22and then also what I I this has
11:25literally nothing to do with that
11:26statistic, but I've been watching a a
11:29show on Netflix and it's called Running
11:32Point.
11:33>> Mhm.
11:34>> And it's about an an executive
11:37who or it's like a family, but it's like
11:40four of them. Three are brothers and
11:42one's a sister. Well, something happens
11:45in the family or whatever and the sister
11:48gets promoted to like lead this
11:51basketball team. Like she's the CEO of
11:53the basketball team now.
11:55>> But it's just I mean like it really I've
11:57only watched like a few episodes, but I
11:59thought it had a lot to do with like
12:01this and how women are viewed in the
12:06workforce, especially in a leadership
12:09type role.
12:10>> So, but it's been really interesting.
12:12It's obviously funny. Yeah, like comedy.
12:15>> But um yeah, I just thought it was
12:17relevant to what we were talking about,
12:20>> right? And so what in the show, what
12:22does she experience as being the CEO of
12:24this
12:26maledominated?
12:27>> Oh, yeah. That's it was a male-dominated
12:29field. But u so she's like dealing with
12:32obviously sexism.
12:34>> Uh how people view her, how she has to
12:37talk like having like for her she wasn't
12:41supposed to be in this role like her
12:43brother had like a issue with like drugs
12:46or something and he picked her.
12:48>> But her father even had had not allowed
12:50her to even though she was very
12:52interested in basketball and all the
12:54things and drafts and all that. No one
12:57ever listened to her because she was a
12:58girl.
13:00And now that she's in this role, like
13:03even the men in the organization aren't
13:06and her brothers don't respect her, not
13:09listening to her, don't think she has
13:10good ideas, right?
13:11>> And it's, you know, it's just like
13:13talking like seeing like she's obviously
13:15qualified to do this, probably
13:18overqualified to do it,
13:20>> but the people around her don't believe
13:22her in her. And then also like at the
13:25episode I'm on like her husband, not her
13:26husband, but it was like her boyfriend
13:27living boyfriend like left her
13:29>> because she ended up having to do
13:31something that just like a regular
13:33executive would probably do for you know
13:37and for their team or whatever.
13:40>> And uh yeah, he ends up leaving her
13:43because you know she he she didn't show
13:45up for him
13:46>> you know like
13:48>> Yeah. So like
13:48>> so like a woman row like a mother like a
13:50wife you know like all those things
13:52competing against each other
13:54>> challenging gender roles and stuff which
13:56which makes for good TV.
13:58>> Yeah.
13:59>> But
14:01>> we know that it happens in real life. I
14:03mean you know we it's it's I I
14:07don't argue with any of those statistics
14:10that you gave that we're over
14:12represented in the field under
14:13representative
14:15in in leadership in those fields.
14:17executive level. Yeah. You know,
14:19positions.
14:20>> Um it it's not the same. Like the
14:23percentage seems like it should be the
14:25same.
14:26>> And I wonder I wonder is that because
14:31women aren't being promoted because of
14:34stereotypical gender role issues with,
14:37you know, men are better at, you know,
14:39management, higher level management. or
14:44are the women smart enough not to want
14:46those jobs?
14:47>> Well, it doesn't say that at all. It say
14:49I mean I think that
14:50>> do they want to do they want to be
14:52promoted?
14:53>> I think women do want to be promoted but
14:54it was like some of the stuff that I
14:56read was talking about
14:59you kind of get that for instance the
15:01motherhood like paradox.
15:04>> Yeah. you know, like in in the middle of
15:07us having like having a career, we are
15:12also at that age where we're having
15:15children,
15:16>> you know, and so we're having to take
15:18extra time off. And just like I said at
15:20the beginning, like, you know, we're not
15:21only managing our work life, but there's
15:23a whole lot of things at home,
15:25>> too, that we're responsible for
15:28>> as a as a woman. Um, and I think that
15:32that kind of hinders people from getting
15:36promotions.
15:37>> Mhm.
15:38>> You know, like it's that motherhood.
15:39>> Yeah. Because there's a natural time
15:41when you're parenting as a woman. You
15:44are saying as a woman. Women
15:46>> are doing more at home. Is that what
15:47you're saying, Dana?
15:48>> I think I think you are.
15:49>> Data drives that information.
15:52>> Based on evidence. Okay. I didn't make
15:55it up.
15:57based on the evidence that we have. So
16:01yes, it's that impossible thing where um
16:04>> if you do start your as a woman, if you
16:06do start your family early,
16:09>> then you you miss out on a lot of that
16:12experience and opportunity, you know, to
16:15gain experience in your field. And then
16:18if you wait too late then you miss out
16:21on those pro promotion opportunities or
16:24biologically it might be too late for
16:26you like it might be more difficult for
16:28you to start a family.
16:29>> That's right. Absolutely. Because you
16:31think you've kind of pushed it off
16:32because you wanted to.
16:33>> That is one thing biologically that is
16:36definitely we can all agree on that you
16:38know um women have that difference. you
16:42know that for for men it's not as as uh
16:46as difficult for them to start a family
16:48later on in life
16:49>> right
16:50>> you know and I don't think it's as
16:52impactful for them you know to start
16:55they don't I mean they can and should
16:58have paternity leave but they don't have
17:00to they don't have to take it you know
17:03like doctors say that women have to stay
17:05off of work for a certain amount of time
17:07after you know they have a kid
17:08>> that's right
17:09>> yeah so yeah I'd say that's definitely
17:12part of it that for most women that want
17:15to have a family, there's a chunk of
17:17time where a lot of their focus is on
17:22that.
17:23>> Yeah.
17:24>> Yeah. So, they get disrupted in the
17:26workplace,
17:27>> right? And so, or they're perceived as
17:29not being as committed or
17:31>> because they don't work 24 hours a day.
17:34>> Yeah. They're like they're not willing
17:35to take the risks or they can't travel
17:38out of town or whatever it may be. like
17:40you know anyway I just thought it was
17:42interesting and I think we see that too
17:45>> even in fields like we are I mean I can
17:47look at all kinds of different u
17:50organizations and people at higher
17:51levels a lot of time aren't men
17:54>> so that's true
17:57>> so I mean
17:59you know what do we what do we do about
18:02this what do we do about these
18:04differences in the workforce and
18:07especially as a manager how does Does it
18:10impact us?
18:12You know, when we know that there are
18:14different
18:16societal standards and expectations, but
18:18also corporate
18:20standards and expectations for men and
18:22women.
18:23>> Well, I think we have to call it out.
18:25>> Well, so we, you know, I think that I
18:28think a lot of times the idea is that we
18:31just we don't talk about it. Mhm.
18:33>> Like everything's equal, everything's,
18:36you know, sure. Of course, everything's
18:37>> course you have exactly the same
18:38opportunities as everybody else.
18:40>> Yeah. So, I think there's that
18:43um I think that there's that take that
18:46some people have as just sort of like,
18:48no, no, everybody, you know, everybody's
18:50just the same. Let's just not call
18:52attention to it.
18:53>> But you're saying like we need to
18:55recognize that.
18:56>> Yeah. And we need to recognize the
18:57things that are kind of off base about
19:01just like what I said at the beginning
19:02like how we're perceived,
19:05you know, and um just
19:08>> I've never left a meeting with a man and
19:09somebody said, "Man, he's such a
19:12>> but I definitely have left meetings with
19:14women in it and not I'm not just saying
19:16>> and it comes from women, too."
19:18>> Oh, it mostly comes from women, I think.
19:20>> Yeah.
19:21>> Yeah. But because we also have that
19:23perspect perception,
19:24>> right? you know, like if if a woman is
19:27being o, you know, very assertive in a
19:30role that we do feel that way about
19:33them.
19:33>> So,
19:35um, one of the things that we get
19:36perceived at is is too nice or too
19:41aggressive. No one's ever called me
19:43that.
19:45>> Uh, not me.
19:46>> It's kind of only called you that a few
19:48times on this podcast. It's the
19:50impossible balance. But I told you I
19:52liked it. Oh, you do. You do like when
19:54I'm
19:55>> I like it when you're aggressive.
19:56>> Like I like you want me to be the Hulk.
19:58>> I appreciate it.
20:00>> Hulk.
20:02>> I like it when you're aggressive
20:03aggressive, not passive aggressive.
20:05>> That's right. She doesn't like passive
20:06aggressiveness. So, but it's it's it's
20:08the impossible balance. You can't
20:10there's there's no win, right? Like you
20:12you're either like this sweetie sweet,
20:14you know, overly,
20:17>> you know, sensitive
20:19>> person and that's how they perceive you
20:21as or there's no in between. you're
20:23either that or you're the
20:25>> Um and it's just like this double
20:27standard.
20:29>> Yeah, definitely. So, you know, you have
20:33to be authoritative in a leadership
20:35role,
20:36>> but you also have to be perceived as
20:39warm and engaging.
20:42>> Yeah. And you're expected to be like uh
20:47uh what is I read it was the customer
20:50service of authority
20:52>> like you're you're supposed to
20:55>> like be the customer like that's your
20:58professional uh you know
21:01>> character.
21:02>> Yeah.
21:02>> As you have to be the nice like oh I'm
21:05just going to smooth this over and make
21:08it as you know. So there's more of an
21:12emotional load. Um often it seems like
21:15for women there's more of an emotional
21:17load to
21:20leadership and management.
21:21>> Tone police.
21:23>> Yeah. That you have to constantly be
21:25thinking about your tone, your warmth,
21:28your, you know, how you're putting
21:31things.
21:32>> Um whereas, you know,
21:34>> men probably or don't not have to do
21:36that.
21:37>> Yeah.
21:38>> I mean, I've heard you talk about it.
21:41and your emails.
21:43>> Oh, yeah.
21:44>> Yeah. Like you like you've said, I have
21:46to write two emails.
21:47>> Yes.
21:48>> I have to write the email where I'm
21:50asking directly
21:52>> for the thing that I need.
21:54>> I'm planning on Yes, you're right. That
21:56one I thought Yeah, I thought you were
21:58thinking talking about another email
21:59conversation that I've had. But yes, I
22:02have to write two emails every time
22:04>> because you're tone policing yourself.
22:06>> I'm tone policing. Right. Right.
22:08>> Yeah. Because you need to al you need to
22:11be perceived as both nice
22:14>> and authoritative.
22:15>> Yes, I need this. But I need to say
22:18>> I need morning.
22:22>> How are you?
22:23>> How are you?
22:24>> Happy Monday.
22:26>> Yeah. Um yes, I'm tone policing for
22:30sure. Um and just making sure that you
22:32know it's like heart emoji, heart emoji.
22:36Do you know that some of our some of our
22:39newer hires, like brand new ones, Yeah.
22:42right now,
22:43>> okay,
22:44>> answer emails and emojis.
22:45>> No way.
22:47>> Mhm.
22:48>> Okay. I need I need
22:48>> It's making us all feel very old.
22:50>> I need an example of this.
22:53What would be a What would be an emoji
22:55that someone would use for
22:57>> a heart with stars?
23:00>> But what was what's the response mean?
23:02>> It means okay. It means
23:04>> It means okay. Okay.
23:06>> It means Yeah.
23:09Yeah.
23:10>> Okay.
23:11>> I think the heart means Yeah. The heart
23:13with stars means an emphatic.
23:15>> Yes.
23:15>> Yeah. Oh, like an exclamation point.
23:18>> That's your exclamation point. Okay. I
23:19know I do. I guess I need to know that.
23:21>> You do.
23:22>> Yeah. It's true. It's happening. But I
23:25thought what you what I thought since
23:27we're talking about you know like women
23:30and versus men in the workplace and
23:32management is that I learned um just by
23:36trial and error that it seemed like when
23:39I was emailing a man at work
23:46>> came to realize
23:48that I would ask two or three questions
23:52in one email. Yes.
23:54>> And I would only get an answer to the
23:57first question
23:59>> and then you have to go back and ask
24:00>> and then I would have So then I'd
24:02learned pretty quickly that I just only
24:04ask one question per email.
24:08And um when I was complaining about this
24:11to another man
24:14outside of work, he was like, "Yes,
24:20thank you."
24:22But I was actually complaining about it.
24:24>> Yeah.
24:25>> But he felt seen.
24:27>> Okay.
24:27>> Like
24:28>> Yes.
24:28>> I only need one question at a time.
24:30Don't ask me more.
24:31>> Someone asking me more than it's kind of
24:33like that the way our brains work are
24:35different. You know, they're not like
24:38>> it's that, you know, ages ago, I
24:40remember taking my daughter to a little,
24:42you know, retreat thing and they were
24:44talking about boys and girls or whatever
24:45and boys brains are like waffles and
24:48girls brains are like spaghetti.
24:50>> Yeah. And it was just such a good visual
24:52for me. It's like the, you know,
24:55>> compartmentalizing,
24:55>> the compartmentalizing, you know, versus
24:58the like you can ask me, you can send a
25:01woman an email that's four paragraphs
25:05long. No, please don't do that.
25:06>> Two paragraphs long. No, I won't read
25:08that. Um, I'm a little bit man in that
25:11in that.
25:12>> You're my work husband
25:12>> in that way. Um, two paragraphs long
25:16involving two different issues with
25:18eight different questions. and we will
25:20methodically go through see how all
25:22these relate answer like we'll start out
25:24we'll answer back all you know and then
25:26you'll get one succinct email back about
25:29all of that stuff either that or it'll
25:32be like can I just call you know that's
25:34that's my answer I'm I'm not going to
25:37take the time just I'll I'll just call
25:39you
25:39>> right but then uh I think a lot of men
25:42I've worked with will see that same two
25:43paragraphs and just see the first
25:46question answer it back is the one.
25:49>> So, I mean, I think that's the other
25:51thing that we're dealing with, too. It's
25:52like when you're a female supervisor
25:56supervising men.
25:58>> Mhm.
25:58>> Or when you're you h you you know,
26:01you're a female that has a male
26:04supervisor. There are some differences
26:07and it's good to not pretend that it
26:09that we're all equal,
26:10>> right?
26:11>> You know, or
26:13>> not equal. It's not There's differences
26:15that we need to be. We're not all the
26:16same. We may be equal, but we're not all
26:18the same. We had a we had somebody that
26:20mentioned to us the other day like her
26:22husband got into a field and ends up
26:25being a supervisor to women and he's
26:28like, "Oh my gosh." And he's getting
26:29involved in all these things and he's
26:31having to like it. I think it was a
26:33boundary
26:34>> issue thing and just listening to her
26:36talk about it. But
26:38>> yeah, he thought that he needed to hear
26:39all of the drama.
26:41>> Yeah. They were pulling him into a lot
26:44and it was just like, "Oh, wait. I've
26:46got to like set some boundaries up. And
26:48like just talking to his wife about it
26:49and she's like, "Oh, no, no. You don't
26:51realize like you've he's not navigated
26:53that his whole life.
26:55>> He's not navigated groups of women and
26:58women
26:59>> and know how to not get drawn into it,
27:02>> right? Yeah. They're pulling him in for
27:03stuff." So, no, but I think you can get
27:06uh I think that trying like going back
27:10to the two knives versus too aggressive,
27:11I think you can kind of get pulled in
27:14>> to working harder to try to like
27:19>> emotionally exhausted from trying to
27:22balance that thing like, oh, how are
27:25they perceiving me?
27:26>> It's impossible. It really is just not.
27:29>> You really just can't balance it. But we
27:32can't help trying, you know, just trying
27:35to um bend over backwards, you know,
27:41making sure that we're being nice,
27:43>> overexlaining
27:45the emails that say, "I'm so sorry to
27:47bother you."
27:48>> Oh, or even like when you're doing um uh
27:52corrective action with people. I think
27:55one of the the things that was hardest
27:57for me when I first started having to do
28:00that was not wanting or feeling like I
28:04needed to say I'm sorry.
28:06>> Yeah.
28:07>> Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry that I didn't
28:11mean to write you up.
28:12>> Yeah. I'm sorry that this is happening
28:15to you. You did it to yourself, but I'm
28:17sorry.
28:17>> I'm sorry.
28:18>> And that it's just like this natural and
28:20I I hear that from a lot of women. women
28:22apologizing for themselves all the time
28:25or overexlaining or just saying like,
28:27"I'm sorry. I'm Oh, I'm sorry for
28:29existing
28:30>> or apologizing for sending an email."
28:33>> Yeah. I'm sorry.
28:34>> Like that I had to
28:36>> I'm sorry to bug you.
28:38>> You know, I'll get those sometimes. And
28:39usually if it's someone that I know
28:41pretty well, I'll say,
28:42>> "Don't say you're sorry.
28:43>> Don't say that."
28:44>> Yeah.
28:44>> You don't have to.
28:45>> No,
28:46>> you don't have to say you're sorry. This
28:47why it's actually part of your job.
28:48>> Why you're sorry. This is part of my
28:50job. Yep.
28:51>> Um
28:52>> Oh, right. When they ask you to do
28:53something, they tell you, "I'm sorry for
28:56>> just It's part of my job to read your
28:57email. Don't apologize to me for sending
29:00me an email."
29:04>> Hey.
29:05>> Hey, you are glowing.
29:08Thanks. What are you doing?
29:10>> I'm pregnant.
29:13>> I know that's not true. Oh my god.
29:16>> Just kidding. Even better. Oh,
29:19>> even better.
29:21Even better
29:22>> than being pregnant. I am using Ritual
29:26vitamins.
29:27>> Oh,
29:28>> they have vitamins for a lot of special
29:31needs. Um,
29:32>> prenatalss.
29:33>> Pren They do have prenatalss, but let me
29:36reiterate.
29:37>> Don't get excited. I'm not pregnant. I
29:39hope not. You know, you were looking
29:42forward to raising that child.
29:43>> I was.
29:45>> But they tell me about ritual. They do
29:47have they do have prenatal vitamins.
29:49They do have vitamins for, you know,
29:51different stages of life. And I'm
29:54getting my beautiful, you know, glow
29:58from these wonderful traceable pure
30:03vitamins that Ritual provides.
30:04>> That's awesome. Well, do they offer a
30:07>> Yeah. I mean, do they offer do you do
30:10you have some offer for me?
30:12>> Yeah. If you go right now to the link in
30:15our description, you can get 25% off
30:18your first month.
30:19>> You can give them a try and then you'll
30:21just keep coming back because you'll be
30:23glowing like me.
30:24>> Oh, well without being pregnant
30:27>> and also without sweating.
30:30>> Yes, I think it will help with the sweat
30:32as well.
30:32>> Okay, good. All right. Well, I've got
30:34something.
30:36>> So, um, go to our link in the
30:38description. Um, ritual vitamins. Click
30:41it. Like it. link it.
30:43>> Share it.
30:44>> Share it. All right.
30:46>> Do the stuff.
30:49But it's hard. Even those people will
30:51say, "I know. I know. I'm trying to
30:53stop." You know, like I'll respond back
30:56sometimes just kind of jokingly and be
30:58like, "Why are you sorry? Don't be
31:00sorry. I'm doing you're doing your job.
31:02I'm doing my job. There's no need to
31:04feel sorry." you know, but it's just
31:06it's this habit that some of us have and
31:09the emotional labor that we've just
31:11naturally taken on in our lives and and
31:14you know, comes across in our work and
31:18as managers,
31:19>> right? Um but also you know what you
31:21said about we are also
31:25more expected
31:27to plan those events, baby showers, um
31:31going out, you know, planning lunches
31:33when people leave or retire or, you
31:36know, um anniversary
31:40>> events, um acknowledgements,
31:43uh the emails that say happy birthday or
31:46you know, whatever. You know, I think
31:48that that that falls on our shoulders.
31:50Not to say that men don't do it, but
31:53that if you're a woman in a management
31:56position, there's more there's a higher
31:58expectation on you to do those things, I
32:02think.
32:03>> Yeah. Well, I think it's like that
32:04office mom
32:06>> expectation. Like
32:08>> you're not just a mom at home, but
32:10sometimes you come to work and people
32:13need you to mom them there,
32:16>> right?
32:16>> As well,
32:17>> right?
32:18>> You know that reminders, reminders,
32:21reminders.
32:22>> So, yeah. And so that's another one just
32:24like falling into you're in a certain
32:28environment, you're in a corporate
32:29environment, you're in a work
32:31environment and you tend you tending to
32:34fall back into those societal roles as
32:37the mom, the wife, you know, you've
32:39heard those you made a comment about it
32:42about, you know, having a work husband.
32:45That's me.
32:46>> Yeah.
32:47>> Uh so that's not but like having a work
32:50wife.
32:51um you know women in management kind of
32:56falling into that role of mothering you
33:00know like reminding nagging you know
33:04that kind of thing
33:06um or even just I think sometimes when
33:10you have uh men and women in the same
33:14level of position sometimes it falls on
33:16the women to be take the secretarial
33:20role take the notes.
33:22>> Yeah, I was reading some stuff online.
33:24>> Schedule the the you know room.
33:27>> Yeah.
33:27>> Yeah. I was Yeah, that was it was like a
33:30lot of executive level people who were
33:32on the same level and just being like
33:34walking in to a meeting and they were
33:36expected to take the notes and they were
33:38expected to, you know, not because they
33:40needed to, you know, be involved in the
33:43actual conversation about what's going
33:45on, but because Yeah. as like that. Oh
33:47well, you you're expected to be the
33:49assistant now.
33:50>> Mhm.
33:51>> And I I do think sometimes that happens.
33:54I mean, like especially not just like
33:56the assistant thing, but like for us, I
33:59mean, we've talked about it before, but
34:01like we're also well, we're also
34:05therapists, you know, and so there's
34:08that nurturing part, helper role
34:11>> that we got into this for anyway. like
34:14we want to help people and our staff
34:16are, you know, our people now. And so
34:20you you get into that like I want to
34:22nurture them too. I want to help them. I
34:25want to, you know, but you can easily
34:27>> you fall into that role just as easily.
34:30Absolutely. You know,
34:31>> um and not to say that that just happens
34:33between men and women. I mean, we we
34:36definitely fall into those roles
34:37sometimes with younger staff or with
34:39staff that have something going on. we
34:41might fall into that, you know, those
34:43societal roles if we're a little bit
34:45older as, you know, a mother figure or
34:47something. I mean, it's not doesn't just
34:49happen that way, but that is one of the
34:51as women in leadership that is one of
34:53the things, you know, that that we
34:56experience. The problem is sometimes I
35:00think sometimes it works out fine,
35:03>> but other times it can really cause
35:05resentment. I think that's where the
35:07issue comes from. And it when you said
35:11we need to recognize
35:13>> the differences here
35:15>> and we need to recognize the
35:17discrepancies
35:18because if you're if you're not paying
35:20attention to it then resentment can
35:23really build up
35:24>> and then you start saying things that HR
35:28might take offense to you.
35:30>> Yeah. You know, so you know, that's when
35:34you allow yourself to really get worked
35:36up and angry and resentful because of
35:39those roles that you you may willingly
35:41be taking on.
35:43>> Yeah. I mean, I've walked into rooms
35:44with women. It speaking just like a
35:47feeling like that resentment about like
35:50where I am and how much work I've put
35:52into it. And obviously we have multiple
35:55degrees and licenses and like we you
35:58know and walking into a room and you
36:00know a male executive looks around and
36:02goes where's all the men
36:05and you're like you're in a room full of
36:07>> what
36:08>> professional women like why is your
36:11question yeah why why is your question
36:14where are all the men
36:16>> like
36:17>> that's offensive
36:18>> that's kind of yeah you're in a field
36:20with 92% women it of Of course, there's
36:23going to be a lot of us here. I hope,
36:27>> right? In leadership positions.
36:30>> Yeah.
36:30>> Yeah. You know, it's like we've ran them
36:32all off. It's our fault. Where are they?
36:34I don't know.
36:36>> Culturally, where are they at? I We
36:38didn't do anything with them. I don't
36:40know. I didn't I'm not hiding them.
36:42>> But those kinds of comments though
36:45relates back to those societal
36:48>> Yeah. you know, expectations and that,
36:51you know, it and that that's kind of
36:52funny like, oh,
36:55>> what' you do with that?
36:55>> But it feels you feel it. It's like a it
36:58burns.
36:58>> There's some resentment. There's some
37:00resentment that comes up out of
37:01>> Have you seen how about you recognize
37:03all the talented people that are you
37:05have a lot of great talented individuals
37:08in this room right now?
37:11>> Why like acknowledge that?
37:14>> Yeah.
37:14>> Um, have you seen that? I don't know.
37:16It's it's like a it's probably like a
37:19real or something on the internet where
37:22this woman uh is doing professional
37:27interviews with highlevel executive men
37:31and she's asking them questions that
37:34women get asked.
37:36>> Oh, maybe I've seen that. Yeah.
37:38>> Yeah. It's it's kind of and it's I think
37:40it's very interesting and eye opening to
37:42be like and to see those men go like
37:45>> and they don't have any clue that women
37:47get asked that.
37:48>> Well, no. And they don't know what to
37:49say when they get asked those questions
37:52like excuse me like what have you ever
37:54been asked like you know have you know
37:56are you know
37:58>> give me an example. I think it was are
38:00you planning to start a family or
38:01something?
38:02>> Yeah. Like tell me how you chose your
38:05outfit today,
38:07>> you know, like or uh what was one of
38:10them like um
38:13>> do you feel like you ever are in
38:16a meeting?
38:18Like it's just like all these questions
38:20that like women would be asked but that
38:23men never
38:24>> Yeah.
38:25>> get asked those questions.
38:26>> Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. I mean there's
38:28definitely some discrepancies and I I do
38:31think we need to pay attention to those
38:33you know
38:35>> um
38:36and I do think we you know
38:40it sometimes as a parent that if there
38:44is a minority
38:46of a certain you know gender
38:50um that you may get questions like where
38:53are all of the whatever?
38:56>> Yeah.
38:56>> Right. And maybe there might even be a
38:59push to make sure that there's more.
39:03>> Sure.
39:04>> Um maybe there's, you know,
39:07maybe there's more men in leadership.
39:10you know, maybe that gets back to
39:14the story that, you know, or the the um
39:17article that you read about the
39:20percentage of people that are actually
39:22promoted
39:23>> in majority female industries, you know.
39:27So, if if there are men higher up and
39:30they're looking around, they might they
39:33might want to have some bros in there
39:34with them,
39:35>> of course.
39:37Maybe. So, I don't know.
39:40I don't know how it happens.
39:42I don't know how I was busy having
39:44babies. I don't know what I don't know.
39:46I was gone for a few years. I don't
39:48know.
39:50>> Oh,
39:52no. But I do think that there there's
39:54some definitely emotional exhaustion
39:56that comes along with being a a woman in
40:00leadership. And I think we're expected
40:03sometimes to be constantly available to
40:05people. Mhm.
40:06>> You know that um
40:10or you know, why are we not being
40:12sensitive enough to their needs?
40:14Obviously, we're a wh woman. Shouldn't
40:16we or shouldn't we do that anyway?
40:20>> Yeah. Why didn't you think to do that?
40:22You know,
40:23>> I think it leads back to that compassion
40:24fatigue.
40:25>> There's there's somebody crying in the
40:27break room, you know. Can you go handle
40:28it? You go talk to them.
40:30>> Go get that paper bag.
40:31>> You go get that paper bag. Yeah.
40:33Exactly. Like I don't know what to do. I
40:35don't know what to do either. Right. I
40:37don't know how to handle this either.
40:40>> Yeah. I don't know. But like, okay, so
40:43we know that there are definite
40:45discrepancies. We know that there can be
40:48some, you know,
40:51you know, some difficult situations to
40:54navigate. I mean, what are we what do we
40:58do about it?
41:01Well, I think you don't I think that if
41:03you know that you can be aware so that
41:06like oh am I mothering them like my
41:10staff like is is what I'm doing is am I
41:13am I nagging them because like what
41:17actually do they need help with?
41:19>> Right? So instead of just being like,
41:21"Oh,
41:22whatever. This person needs me to nag
41:24nag nag nag them for whatever reason,
41:27and that's my role as a woman." Instead,
41:31let's really look at what the issue is.
41:33What is it that they're having a problem
41:35with, just like what we do with
41:36anything? like we probably need to have
41:38an actual conversation about it and
41:40let's fix the problem instead of just
41:42just falling into a role that we're
41:45probably just used to doing or having
41:48because that's what's expected of us.
41:51>> Um so direct communication and also
41:54knowing that if you are having direct
41:57communication with someone that's not
41:59aggression.
42:01>> Yeah. It's actually helpful
42:04>> to have direct communication with
42:07somebody and tell them exactly what it
42:08is that you need, exactly what you want,
42:11and you know, just like that assertive,
42:13like you can be assertive and nice at
42:15the same time. Like
42:17>> maybe I'm not being too mean about this,
42:20but
42:22>> well, Hulk out.
42:24>> You can be assertive about something
42:27without being worried about being nice.
42:29>> True. And that's tough for women, I
42:32think.
42:32>> Yeah,
42:33>> I think that's tough. I mean,
42:34biologically, we're weaker and we've
42:37kind of learned throughout the years.
42:40>> I'm very strong.
42:41>> I I know you are, Dana. But I mean, we
42:45are the weaker sex uh physically in most
42:49situations.
42:51There's some men we could take.
42:52>> I could take a lot of men. We there's
42:54some we could take, but we just we are
42:57taught to kind of always keep things
43:01smoothed over so that no bigger person
43:04gets angry and smashes us like the Hulk.
43:09>> Okay.
43:10Yeah. It's funny that we keep talking
43:12about the Hulk because I got a group
43:14text message um a few weeks ago from my
43:19son that said that his girlfriend said
43:21that I remind her of the Hulk.
43:23>> Oh,
43:25but then she she just responded and said
43:27that's not true. But then the rest of my
43:30family had to keep
43:31>> egging it on.
43:32>> Um, you know,
43:35postulating why,
43:38you know, and I was like, well, that is
43:41actually probably the superhero that I
43:44identify with most at at this point in
43:46my life.
43:47>> It's not Spider-Man.
43:48>> Everything's fine. I'm just a little
43:50nerd and everything's going just fine
43:52until
43:53>> you count out
43:54>> until until it's not.
43:56>> Yeah.
43:58>> Yes. So you can be confident. Confident.
44:00Yeah. And clear. And it doesn't make you
44:06mean.
44:07>> Right. Exactly. And I also think that if
44:10you're starting to resent some role that
44:13you've taken on with one of your staff,
44:16that's also something that you can have
44:18direct communication about. I think you
44:21can say, "Listen, it feels like I'm the
44:24one responsible for reminding you
44:28like I'm I'm feeling more responsible
44:31for reminding you to do these tasks than
44:35you're taking responsibility.
44:38>> So, how can we solve this problem?
44:41>> So, because it may not you may have
44:43taken that on willingly and they have
44:46willingly accepted
44:47>> allowed you to be their
44:48>> they have allowed you to be their mommy.
44:50>> Yeah.
44:51>> Because they want it.
44:53>> Yeah.
44:54And so I think it's important for you to
44:57assertively point out that this is
45:00what's going on. How can we problem
45:02solve this when you start to find
45:04yourself becoming resentful about that?
45:08>> Yeah.
45:09>> You know,
45:12hey Dana. Hey Mary. Do you have a Sam's
45:16Club membership?
45:17>> I sure do.
45:18>> Okay. So do I.
45:20>> Yes, you do.
45:20>> But you know what?
45:21>> No. I bet we know some people who don't.
45:24>> Oh,
45:25>> and that's a sad
45:26>> that's really upsetting. They should
45:28have a Sam's Club membership.
45:30>> You know, the thing is I don't buy giant
45:33thing, you know, giant quantities of
45:35>> But I do.
45:36>> I know you do.
45:38>> But there's never been a time that I
45:40haven't gone into Sam's and thought that
45:43I needed something in there and come out
45:45with something. That's true. You know,
45:46like maybe I need a a hammock camping
45:50chair, you know, a camping chair that
45:52like rocks like a hammock.
45:54>> Maybe I need that.
45:56>> You know, maybe I need some collapsible
45:59containers for the back of my SUV.
46:02>> Two containers of ranch dressing.
46:06>> No, I don't. But you do.
46:08>> I do. And um maybe I need a giant
46:11floating raft to put in a body of water
46:16>> or a playground.
46:17>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, all that stuff's
46:19cool, but not everybody has a Sam's
46:21card.
46:22>> That's true.
46:22>> Good news is though, if you are
46:24listening to this podcast,
46:27you can go to our description, the link
46:29in our description.
46:30>> Yeah.
46:31>> And you can get 50% off.
46:33>> Oh my gosh.
46:34>> That's half.
46:36>> Did that Did you know that? I didn't.
46:38>> Okay. I I know you don't like to do
46:40math, so I was doing the math for you.
46:42You get half off. You get 50% off a
46:45Sam's Club
46:46>> membership
46:46>> card membership. I think that's awesome.
46:48>> No, that's great.
46:49>> You have to go to the link in our
46:50description, though.
46:51>> Yep. Click it.
46:52>> Click it. Like it. Link it.
46:54>> Do all the things.
46:55>> Do it.
46:55>> Get your Sam's Club membership.
46:57>> Get a giant floating raft for a body of
47:00water
47:02and a gigantic thing of paper towels.
47:04two giant things of ranch dressing cuz
47:06who doesn't love ranch dressing on
47:07absolutely everything does
47:09>> yes
47:09>> yes
47:10>> yes
47:13>> tell them what you need and also what
47:17they need to do
47:19>> and stop apologizing for just doing your
47:22job
47:23>> don't do it don't say I'm sorry for
47:26asking you for this thing just ask for
47:28the thing
47:29>> I've got a good friend that apologizes
47:30to me all the time and I gave her
47:33something better to say and I can tell
47:35when she's
47:36>> what's the better thing?
47:37>> Um, thank you for It's sort of like, you
47:41know, if if she says, um, yeah, I'm
47:45sorry, but can you do this or, you know,
47:50or I'm I'm sorry, but um, I'm not going
47:55to be able to come or whatever, you
47:57know. I think I think I was giving her
47:59some examples. And so it might be
48:01something like um you know, hey this is
48:05something I need. I appreciate you being
48:07so available to me if you can do it or
48:10you know something like that. I
48:11appreciate your help instead of you know
48:14just saying thank you.
48:16>> Yeah. Just say I appreciate you because
48:18that's really what I think that a lot of
48:20times that's really what they're trying
48:22to say.
48:22>> Yeah. is that I respect your time.
48:27>> So, I don't want to bother you.
48:31>> So, instead of saying, "I'm sorry to
48:33bother you," just say, "Hey, I
48:34appreciate all the help you've given me.
48:36Could you, you know, I could you help me
48:39out with this project. I appreciate all
48:41the work you did on that thing. You
48:43know, I need you to follow up on it."
48:46Right.
48:46>> Right. And so, you can still show
48:49appreciation without apologizing.
48:52Absolutely. You can show up
48:53>> because you shouldn't have to apologize
48:55for doing your job,
48:57>> right?
48:57>> You just shouldn't. They're getting
48:59paid, too.
49:00>> Absolutely.
49:01>> Yeah.
49:03>> You cannot sustainably do everything.
49:06>> I can't.
49:07>> I mean, you can.
49:08>> I can't.
49:10>> I expect you to. Most people can't.
49:11>> I expect you to do everything. Uh, no.
49:14But seriously, like I think it's
49:15important to realize that I just like I
49:18said at the beginning like doing the
49:21potlucks and doing your job and all of
49:24the things that you are supposed to be
49:26managing and managing at home. I think
49:29and this was something that you said
49:30like I forget it's like a clip or
49:32something that we did and you said oh
49:36yeah I delegated that
49:38because that other person liked to do
49:41yeah that thing that I think it was
49:43grids that was what it was but
49:46>> I think it's important to not or to
49:49realize I can't do everything even
49:51though that may be an expectation I've
49:53put on myself but I can't do everything
49:56sometimes you have to delegate out. Yes.
49:58>> Like you you there is more than one of
50:01you at the office. You are not
50:02responsible for every single thing that
50:04happens
50:05>> and there's people that do it better
50:07than you.
50:08>> You should have a team of people that
50:09and there should be people that do
50:11things better than you.
50:13>> We're just we're we're done. We're out
50:15of this era. We we I don't I think we're
50:18out of the era where we have to prove
50:20that we can do everything. I think that
50:22era is over.
50:23>> Yeah. So women in the workforce and
50:25especially women in leadership need to
50:27embrace and accept the fact that we
50:30don't have to keep proving ourselves.
50:31We've already proven ourselves.
50:33>> Yeah.
50:34>> So now we just have to figure out how
50:37how do we manage in the workplace and
50:41still not let every let all the other
50:43balls drop.
50:44>> Yeah.
50:45>> You know, boundaries. Let's come back to
50:47saying that word boundaries. I don't
50:49every single episode.
50:50>> I think we haven't said it yet this
50:52episode. You do have to have those
50:54boundaries
50:56>> and but also not but not be apologetic
51:01for having a life outside of work. And
51:03this goes for women and men. Like I
51:06think the more that women take on in the
51:08workforce, the more it's expected for
51:11men to take on at home. So I think I
51:15think everybody needs those boundaries.
51:17Yeah. you know, like um
51:21that's okay. And let's just let's just
51:23know that we've we've done it. We're
51:25here. We've arrived.
51:26>> We can bring home the bacon and fried it
51:29up in the pan.
51:31>> We do it all.
51:32>> I wonder who's old enough to remember
51:33that.
51:34>> Are you?
51:35>> I've heard it before. Um also, I just
51:38wanted I did I did want to say
51:40exhaustion is not proof that you're
51:41succeeding. I think some people
51:44>> Yeah.
51:45feel like they have to show and work all
51:49the time to prove that they have
51:51succeeded.
51:52>> Yeah.
51:53>> Especially as a woman, you you do not
51:56have to you do not have to earn rest.
51:58You do not have to lead perfectly and
52:01you do not have to become emotionless to
52:05be effective.
52:07>> I like all of that.
52:08>> Yeah.
52:08>> Yeah. Especially the thing about
52:10exhaustion,
52:12you know, because you can't be a good
52:14leader if you're trying to lead it
52:16exhausted.
52:17>> You can't
52:18>> Yeah.
52:18>> Yeah. You're just It's just not good.
52:20It's not good for your team. It's not
52:21good for you. It's not good for the
52:23people above you. You're just not Yeah.
52:24You just can't be exhausted all the
52:26time.
52:28>> So, all right. I think or did the
52:31question answer partly? Does she have
52:32anything else?
52:33>> Do you want a question?
52:34>> Do I want a question? Sure. You love the
52:37questions. Is it going to be a balloon
52:39animal that I have to
52:42choose?
52:42>> No, I'm not gonna
52:43>> Is it a good question?
52:45>> Why do you think I would ask you a
52:46question about a balloon animal? That's
52:48crazy.
52:49>> Okay. Um,
52:55if you could pick if you could pick it
52:57is a balloon animal dance.
52:59>> It is not. If you could take
53:02one
53:04corporate one phrase of corporate jargon
53:08out of circulation
53:10>> forever.
53:12No.
53:14>> Which one would you pick?
53:15>> That's too hard.
53:16>> Pick one. It's gone forever.
53:21>> Currently,
53:22>> do you want to circle back to that
53:28>> Um Uh, I I think currently
53:34my least favorite
53:39term is
53:42painpoint.
53:43>> Oh, I hate that. That's one. That's
53:46That's the one. That's the one.
53:48>> I think I think currently that's the one
53:50I hate the most. That's a real pain.
53:53>> Is that a real pain point?
53:54>> Yeah. I think it's because I feel I
53:56identify with it personally. because I
53:59have a lot of pain points. So many pain
54:01points.
54:02>> It's like, please can we not talk about
54:03pain points at work? No, I don't like
54:06that either. No,
54:07>> I do not like painoint.
54:08>> Nope.
54:10>> I agree with you. I think I'm gonna
54:12>> Yeah,
54:12>> you're going to jump on my bandwagon.
54:15>> Yeah, but I I also feel like circling
54:17back is pretty old. If we haven't
54:18circled back by now, we ain't going to
54:20circle back.
54:21>> So, one of the other ones that I don't
54:22like is piggyback.
54:25>> Oh, piggyback on that. Let me piggyback
54:27on that idea. I think I use it.
54:29>> You do use it.
54:31>> But I think I do.
54:32>> You do use it. Um,
54:35you hate it. I hate it so much.
54:38>> I didn't know. You didn't tell me.
54:40>> Because I've never told you that I hate
54:41it. But I think I can deal with it like
54:44once during a meeting. But what happens
54:46is people hear it
54:47>> and then everybody starts us. Somebody
54:51uses it one time.
54:53>> Okay, I'll start saying leaprog instead.
54:57What if we just started inserting our
54:59own things? So instead of circle back,
55:00we'll be like, let's Mary go around
55:02that.
55:05You just want to use your name. Just
55:07going to make stuff up. Because half the
55:09time I honestly literally if if I'm in a
55:13meeting with people I'm not normally in
55:15a meeting with because everybody picks
55:16it up from each other like you said.
55:18>> Yes. It's like it's
55:19>> if I'm in a meeting I'm not normally in,
55:21sometimes I'm just going I really I
55:24honestly don't even know what we're
55:26talking about here. I don't even know
55:28what you guys are saying. So, you might
55:30as well just be going like, let's get on
55:32the carousel and come take a ride around
55:36on that. Ride around on that. What?
55:41Let's giddy up that idea.
55:45Circle the wagons. Yeehaw, I'm just
55:48making stuff up. It doesn't matter. And
55:50I What if we inserted one? What if like
55:53we start now everybody knows, but what
55:55if we started just inserting one into
55:58some meetings every now and then?
56:01>> See if it catches on. Mhm.
56:03>> Yep. We'll come up with one good.
56:06>> Surprise. Maybe everybody will forget we
56:08said it.
56:09>> Yep.
56:10>> All right. Well, if you've ever worked
56:12for a bad boss that is a male or female
56:16or says uses corporate jargon
56:22>> or if you're worried you might be one. I
56:24guess I am because I say piggyback.
56:26>> Sorry.
56:27>> You're in the right place because this
56:29is barely manageable because leadership
56:31isn't perfect, Dana.
56:33>> And neither is this podcast. We'll
56:36circle back on that next time.
56:38>> It's barely manageable. So like,
56:41comment, subscribe, and please leave us
56:44a fivestar review. That really, really
56:47helps. Sha um definitely share the
56:49podcast. And thanks for listening.
56:52>> Thanks for listening.
56:53>> Bye.

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