YT YouTube2Text

YouTube2Text → Transcripts → Witness says she confronted Alex Murdaugh about finances on day of killings: full video

Witness says she confronted Alex Murdaugh about finances on day of killings: full video — Transcript

by News 19 WLTX · 24,735 words · 3,646 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

Open in transcriber Summarize with AI Download SRT/VTT

Full transcript

0:00my name is Jeanie seconder s e c k i n g
0:05r m seconder how you doing today I'm
0:08good awesome tell the jury a little bit
0:10about yourself uh if you could just kind
0:12of introduce yourself uh where' you grow
0:14up uh where'd you go to school um I grew
0:17up in Hampton South Carolina graduated
0:20from Wayne Hampton went to the
0:22University of South Carolina what I got
0:24my BS in accounting after that I worked
0:26a number of years in public accounting
0:29then I transferred into um as a
0:31financial analyst with Westinghouse in
0:34Hampton and after the birth of my second
0:37child I stayed home and worked for my
0:38husband just a few years and in 1999 I
0:41came to work with firm on a part-time
0:43basis doing some special projects and
0:46have not left and that job has grown
0:48since that time till I was over all the
0:51business aspects and financial aspects
0:53of the law firm all right which law firm
0:55are you talking about Peters Mur Parker
0:56El drop theer is that pmed that's
0:59correct is that uh what the firm is
1:01currently known or is it known by a
1:02different name um we are now a separate
1:05entity that we've reorganized as Parker
1:07Parker Parker Law Group LLP right and do
1:11you know the defendant Alec Murdoch over
1:12there I do do you see him in the
1:14courtroom I do can you identify him
1:16please he's in the blue jacket and white
1:18shirt sitting between Jim and
1:20Dick your honor record reflects she's
1:22identified the defendant does uh was he
1:25a partner in the law firm you're
1:26speaking of he was is he a partner
1:29anymore no no and we're going to talk
1:31about some of those things the reasons
1:33for that here today is that correct
1:34that's
1:36correct all right so I'm going call it
1:38pmed what we're talking about is that
1:40fair that's fair all right well tell me
1:42you talked a little bit about your role
1:44in P pmed what would you consider uh
1:47Your Role or how would you define Your
1:49Role particularly as we're moving into
1:50June of 2021 um at that point I would be
1:56CFO basically overall office management
1:58and all Financial aairs of the office um
2:01over hiring and firing HR just any like
2:04I said any business aspect of the firm
2:06so CFO that means what Chief Financial
2:08Officer and coo that means what Chief
2:11Operating Officer and so kind of combin
2:14those
2:15jobs uh are you a lawyer I am not are
2:18you an accountant I am do you have a CPA
2:21I
2:23do uh you said you started working for
2:25the firm when August of 99 and then when
2:28did uh was that working there at that
2:30time the defendant I think ell came to
2:33work the year after me okay did you know
2:37him prior to that I did I've known Alex
2:39since I was 16 years old in high school
2:41y'all went to high school together we
2:43did he's a few years behind me but we
2:44were in the same
2:46school and you worked uh with Alec at
2:49the law firm up until September of 2021
2:52I
2:54did um let's talk a little bit if we
2:57could about the
3:00Law Firm itself and uh tell me a little
3:04bit about the financial structure of the
3:05law firm how how does uh how does it
3:07work that uh fees come into the law firm
3:10and how did they get dispersed at the
3:11end of the year can you explain that to
3:12the jury a little bit um yes so every
3:15fee that any attorney makes is property
3:18of the law firm it comes into the law
3:20firm and goes into the law firm's
3:22accounts and it is sitting in kind of
3:25what we call a holding account that we
3:28dis amass the money um we have another
3:30account called the operating account
3:32that we use to pay the daily bills of
3:34the law firm wages um insurance office
3:37supplies
3:39Etc each attorney in the law firm is
3:43also an employee of the law firm um they
3:46receive a paycheck just like most people
3:48do with W2 taxes taken out and W2 at the
3:52end of the
3:53year when we get to the end of the year
3:55we figure the net profit of the law firm
3:58basically everything brought in and
4:00everything paid out to date and we
4:03distribute that money based off a
4:06ratio of what that bee what that
4:08attorney brought in to total so if an
4:10attorney brought in 10% he's going to
4:12get roughly 10% of the net income at the
4:15end of the year and we do that in a form
4:17of a bonus one time at the end of the
4:19year right when is that bonus typically
4:21paid that bonus is typically paid the
4:23last week of December every year and is
4:26that the for most cases and most of the
4:28partners as we're going to call call
4:29them in the law firm is that the vast
4:32majority of their compensation of the
4:34year is getting it all in one lump sum
4:36at the end of the year in December
4:38that's correct they receive a salary of
4:40125 through the year that they're paid
4:43every two weeks but the vast majority of
4:45their money comes in that one bonus
4:47check okay now you mentioned there was a
4:49salary let's looking back at June of
4:512021 what were the partners in the law
4:53firm what were they getting as a salary
4:56125,000 a year all right 125,000 and
4:59that was broken up into checks like like
5:01times a year yes okay and then um so
5:05that has to be accounted for before the
5:07bonuses are paid correct that's correct
5:08salar is not only for the partners but
5:10also for all the other employees that's
5:12correct all staff all right and is there
5:14other overhead that has to be accounted
5:15for out of the fees before that bonus
5:17can be paid yes all the other other head
5:19is the basic operating expenditures like
5:21I discussed rent for the building
5:23insurance coverage insurance coverage
5:26for the employees office supplies case
5:28cost that we advance for our clients we
5:30pay things as we go for during the case
5:33we pay experts record fees all of that
5:36is part of overhead so after everything
5:39that's paid everything brought in after
5:41everything that's paid out is what we
5:43call that net income that we distribute
5:46is there some sort of 7 and a half% uh
5:48fund or or offset that has to be
5:51accounted for as well before the bonus
5:52is paid there he is we have what we call
5:547 and a half% kind of profit sharing and
5:58everybody takes a number their gross
6:00fees less their portion of overhead we
6:03take overhead and divide it by the
6:04number of Partners and so you would take
6:06let just going to use numbers if your
6:09gross fees were $100,000 and your
6:11overhead was $50,000 you have a net of
6:14$50,000 and we take 7 and a half% of
6:17that and put it in a pot and divide it
6:19back evenly in between everybody and
6:22that purpose is meant to cover when
6:23somebody has a high year or a low year
6:26it kind of helps people out and helps
6:29account for differences and expenses
6:31between each attorney so all of that has
6:33to be taken care of before the bonus is
6:36paid out to the partners at the end of
6:37the year is that correct that's correct
6:39and then whatever money is left over is
6:40divided up based on the percentage of
6:44the fees that that particular partner
6:46brought in of the whole of for the year
6:48is that correct correct so if you had a
6:49better year you're going to get a little
6:50bit more than somebody who didn't have
6:52as good a year absolutely
6:54okay
6:57um over uh over time uh being the CFO
7:01did Alec Murdoch have a very lucrative
7:04practice he did uh were there times
7:06where his bonus was high six figures
7:09definitely were there times his bonus
7:11was seven figures there has been and was
7:14it typical for the vast majority of his
7:16compensation to be in that onetime bonus
7:19at the end of the year as opposed to the
7:21$125,000 salary yes his and everybody
7:24else's that $125,000 salary for these
7:27individuals was a fairly small part of
7:29the compensation
7:34correct
7:41um now one of the things that you
7:43mentioned is that at the very beginning
7:46is you said all fees belong to the firm
7:48is that right that is right and I'm
7:50going to show you what's been marked as
7:51exhibit 310 to your testimony real quick
7:53and see if you can uh recognize this
7:56particular document I do this is the
7:58employment agreement that each of the um
8:01attorneys and the firm sign all right
8:04take that back real quick can I have the
8:05Elmo
8:10please
8:14310 I off pre at this time in no
8:18additional objection CH it's
8:22admitted like do that real quick
8:35let's try it
8:55again all right so is this the uh this
8:59EX the pre is this the first page of
9:01that agreement yes all right and on your
9:03little screen up there can you read that
9:04all right yes okay if we uh look at it's
9:08talking about employer and employees now
9:09we've been talking about the law firm
9:11Partners but in the agreement what are
9:13they referred to as they're actually
9:15shareholders so we refer to them as
9:18partners in the fact that they all work
9:19together and support each other but
9:21because of the tap of tax entity we are
9:23their shareholders it's just a legal in
9:27accounting determination but in fact
9:29you'll you'll see them referred to as
9:30shareholders all right but in this
9:32agreement they're called employees
9:33correct that's correct now just real
9:36quick you talked about paying out the
9:38bonus at the end of the year and that's
9:40where the vast majority of compensation
9:42for the partners goes out is there a tax
9:45reason for that do y'all clear the books
9:47at the end of the year we do clear the
9:48books at the end of the year we off we
9:50function as a C corporation which means
9:52any money that's left in that C
9:54corporation would pay a tax too so to
9:56avoid double taxation we pass that money
9:59down to the partners to the best of our
10:01ability all right and so do you you try
10:03to zero out the books we do all right
10:05and that's just is devoid tax taxing on
10:08anything that remained in The Firm
10:09accounts correct so let me ask you this
10:12if the firm essentially zeros out the
10:14books by paying these bonuses to all the
10:16partners at the end of the year how do
10:17you operate in the in the few uh you
10:19know January and February where we're at
10:21now before fees start to come in what
10:23money do you use to do that so typically
10:25a group of Partners will go in and Loan
10:28money back back to the firm to cover our
10:30first couple months of operating
10:32expenses and as we recover money through
10:34the year we'll pay them back and pay
10:36them off so we we're basically starting
10:38at a almost a negative by borrowing that
10:41money all right and so some of the
10:42partners will loan money to the firm to
10:44operate until there's enough fees that
10:46come in to generate enough money is that
10:48correct that's correct do do the
10:50partners have to do that or is that
10:51something they can do if they want
10:53that's something that they can do if
10:54they want was ell one to ever do that
10:57ell never did that he never did that
11:00okay before we go on back to this
11:02agreement let me ask you a little bit as
11:03far as the firm accounts you mentioned
11:05there's an operating account correct
11:07that's correct and then there's a client
11:08trust account correct that's correct
11:10trust account trust account tell me what
11:12the client trust account is please so
11:15the trust account is a fiduciary account
11:17meaning that we have the responsibility
11:19to maintain and safeguard that money
11:21it's where the account whenever a case
11:24settles that the money that is paid from
11:26the insurance company or individual from
11:28the defend
11:29is put into that client trust account
11:32and that is also where the money is
11:33dispersed out to any um clients or any
11:37Le holders or anything to do with that
11:39dispersement it's also where we collect
11:41our fees and expenses from and are there
11:44legal obligations and money in the
11:46client trust account to ensure that that
11:49money only goes to the legitimate places
11:51it's supposed to go that's correct and
11:53if the law firm wins a case whether by
11:55settlement or by trial uh any recovery
11:58they get does it go on that trust
12:00account first before the law firm gets
12:01paid everything does
12:04yes now I'm going to go back to exhibits
12:07uh this the employment agreement I
12:08believe is exhibit 3:10 and right here
12:11in in uh line three right there can you
12:14read that to the jury please services
12:16for the benefit of employer all
12:19professional services rendered by the
12:21employee shall be rendered as an
12:23employee of the employer and all
12:25proceeds and remuneration received their
12:27failure in order to for the employer's
12:29benefit all right and this is the
12:31agreement signed by all the partners
12:33correct correct and back in 2021 it was
12:36signed by Alec Murdoch correct correct
12:37and all the years prior correct correct
12:40and what does that provision mean
12:41explain that again to the jury that
12:43means that any that any work they do
12:45providing legal services and any money
12:47earned by them belongs to the law firm
12:50not the partner to the law firm and
12:52should run through the law firm's books
12:54it has through the law firm's books
12:56before it can right and then they have
12:58to wait till the end of the year for it
13:00to be accounted for after paying all the
13:02overhead and the salary and the 7 and a
13:04half and all the rest of it that's
13:05correct if a law partner were to divert
13:08fees to himself personally and not send
13:10them to the law firm what would that be
13:12stealing stealing
13:17okay all right um
13:30tell me a little bit if you would about
13:33the management structure of the law firm
13:36how does how does it work just very
13:38quickly so each attorney um apparent we
13:42they
13:42all he need speak they all um have equal
13:46Authority and equal choice but basically
13:49we'll have a little committee each year
13:51that we can go to with day-to-day issues
13:54and make some basic decisiones that are
13:56then going on and voted by the whole
13:58firm um I report directly to each and
14:02every attorney so I would handle
14:04day-to-day obligations within certain
14:06authorties and if I had an issue then I
14:09would go to this committee or somebody
14:12who is present because a lot of times
14:14attorneys are out of the building
14:15traveling in hard and it would kind of
14:17go up the rank from there okay um was
14:21Alec very involved in the actual
14:23management of the firm no were other
14:25partners more involved in the management
14:26of the firm yes
14:29tell me what was your observation of
14:31Alec as a lawyer in the office how what
14:34was your observations and
14:36characters um Alec kept different hours
14:39than a lot of the rest of us he came in
14:41and he would work late um always loud
14:46always busy always in a rush um he had
14:50the gift to gab but he always seemed
14:53last minute and hurried to
14:56ftic always last minute in ftic yes
15:00uh what about his cell phone use how was
15:02he with a cell phone constantly on the
15:04phone constantly on the
15:08phone
15:12um what were your observations of him as
15:15a
15:16lawyer I think elec um was successful
15:21more of not from his work ethic but from
15:23his ability to establish
15:26relationships and to
15:29to
15:30manipulate people into settlements and
15:33clients into liking him um so he did it
15:38through the art of
15:41basically that can be an artc
15:44mhm uh did he in your estimation in your
15:47judgment was he more of a technical type
15:49lawyer or was he one that really
15:50understood how to use the emotion of a
15:53case he would use the emotion of a case
15:55and the and the emotion of his clients
15:58did he understand the emotional value
16:00that the sympathies of a case could have
16:02I
16:05would she's a he's asked her to
16:09testifies as what he understands what's
16:11in his mind I object that's the stain
16:15the
16:20objection with
16:22Alex your observations of ell as a
16:25lawyer
16:29what skills did you see and how he was
16:31able to value a
16:34case I would think that he was able to
16:37read the the
16:39client
16:42um and it seemed to he always got higher
16:46settlements than it looks like they
16:48should appear going back when we've
16:49reviewed everything um so I think that
16:52he used his personality more than
16:54technical skill I think that um you know
16:57we look back and we see things that were
17:00manipulated and set up and I believe he
17:02did that a lot with his clients as
17:08well you mentioned did allocate good
17:11results to the defendant get good
17:12results it appeared that they usually
17:14did yes were they very lucrative results
17:24yes did you have any observations uh
17:29working with Alec for 20 sod years about
17:32his
17:33memory I think that Looking Back Where I
17:37thought he was chaotic and didn't
17:39remember things or kind of got bored
17:41with details sometimes and went and
17:43finish things off I really think looking
17:46back as we've gone back and pieced
17:48together a lot of this that we we saw
17:51where he would tell people one thing and
17:54another person another so in my opinion
17:56looking back I think he had almost a pH
17:58graphic memory you know to to keep all
18:01the balls in the air that we were we now
18:03saw we in the air it appears that he
18:05would had to have a really strong
18:13memory real
18:27quick for
19:02you had mentioned before that uh for the
19:05firm to operate at the beginning of the
19:06year after it cleared its books uh that
19:09it would loan from or take loans from
19:11Partners at their option uh in order to
19:14sort of give some seed money until fees
19:16started to roll in is that correct
19:17that's correct all right I'm going to
19:19show you uh what's been marked as
19:21exhibit 428 to your testimony and just
19:24have you take a look at that and ask you
19:26if you recognize those documents as it
19:28relates to a particular instance
19:30involving the defendant I do all right
19:33and tell me uh tell me about this
19:34instance what happened here please okay
19:37so this is in
19:382017 a check for the payment got
19:43mistakenly written to R Alexander
19:46Murdoch instead of his brother Randolph
19:48Murdoch so the loan payoff was written
19:51to ell all right let me slow you down so
19:53does his brother work for the law firm
19:54his brother does work for the law firm
19:56and what name does he go by ringy he
19:58goes by Randy Murdoch his legal name is
20:00Randolph Murdoch forth had had Randy
20:03Murdoch loan money to the law firm he
20:05did had Alec Murdock loan all no all
20:08right and so what happened then so as we
20:11said we had the clerical error and a few
20:14days later Elliot came to our staff and
20:18it's not quite clear which staff because
20:20our records don't show that but a voided
20:23check he he acted as if he' lost this
20:27original check and had another check
20:29written so a replacement check was then
20:31written to to El again which was a
20:34mistake again did that second check get
20:37cashed the second check got cashed
20:40pretty much immediately within a week or
20:42two and then about a year later the
20:45first check got cashed as well and
20:49that's when a CAU in the system that he
20:51had cashed both checks and looking back
20:53I realized that the mistake had been
20:55made that somebody had hit their names
20:57are right beside each other in the
20:59vendor list and that they had made a
21:01clerical mistake and that he was paid
21:03money that he was not owed all right
21:06ultimately was did he get that money
21:09twice that he was not supposed to have
21:11received he did and ultimately was it
21:13because he claimed that he had lost the
21:14first check correct ultimately did he
21:17cash both checks he did and cash the
21:19original one a year later is that
21:21correct all right uh was he um
21:24confronted about this back at that time
21:25when it was detected I guess in 2017 is
21:28that right he was and uh he was
21:30confronted at that time he was not I
21:33don't remember that he was confronted by
21:36me I know that Danny Henderson spoke
21:38with him about it and ell just claimed
21:41that he made a mistake and thought that
21:42he had paid the money that he had loaned
21:44the money that year and Danny choose to
21:48kind of Let It Go and sweep it under the
21:49road did he pay it back at that point he
21:52did pay it back all right so that
21:54happened and the explanation was given
21:56and then he was allowed to pay it back
21:57is that correct that's correct and
21:59everybody moved on right that's correct
22:01have to point out that it
22:03was these attorneys worked as a
22:05Brotherhood and were very family and
22:07they were trusted him and accepted this
22:10the
22:17explanation what was that word you just
22:19used you said it was a Brotherhood
22:22yes and so when the attorneys are
22:24dealing with one another when the
22:26attorneys are dealing with you
22:29how are yall dealing with one another
22:30what's what's the basis of that trust
22:32trust trust and so over the years when
22:35Alec Murdoch would tell you to do a
22:37transaction or anything like that what
22:39were you relying on the his word and
22:47Trust are you uh generally familiar with
22:51what's been known as the boat case yes
22:54right and uh do you remember that
22:56occurring around in February 2019 I do
23:00right and again not without going into
23:01the specifics of the boat case what was
23:03your general understanding of the bo
23:05well let me ask you this was his son
23:07Paul charged with a with uh driving the
23:10boat in the boat case to your knowledge
23:12yes and was Alec Murdoch sued civil in
23:16the boat case because of the death of
23:18mallerie beach yes after the boat case
23:21did you notice any changes in Alex's
23:24Behavior or his demeanor around the
23:26office
23:29I can't say that I really did um up
23:33until November December of 20 late
23:3820 okay and what' you notice
23:41then didn't really notice it then and we
23:44can go back and notice it now that's
23:46when he started making some some
23:48dispersements that he was stealing from
23:51that started getting sloppy
23:53um so the things that I noticed are more
23:56in hindsight
24:00and I'll put this exhibit up on the
24:02screen let me uh getting ahead of myself
24:05this is exhibit uh
24:13428 428 this is a uh that's this is the
24:17loan check you were talking about is
24:19that right that's right this is where uh
24:22Alec erroneously received a check for
24:25his brother Randy that's right and then
24:27ultimately manag to get the the same
24:30amount twice is that correct that's
24:31right all right
24:34and how much was that check
24:39for I can bring it to you if you need to
24:41see it yeah you're going to have to I'll
24:43bring it to
24:46you screen over here is bigger than
24:50now it was for
24:54$21,300
24:57$121,000 correct that's
25:03correct when you received the check did
25:06Alex say no this isn't mine this isn't
25:07my $121,000 check no he
25:13didn't all
25:17right now you mentioned you started to
25:20talk about some things you noticed in
25:21late of 20120 and and let's just set the
25:23table a little bit more before we do
25:25that you mentioned
25:26dispersements tell the jury before we
25:28see some paperwork tell the jury uh how
25:31dispersements go about are there is
25:33there certain paperwork that's done and
25:34how do the lawyers interface with the
25:36finance stuff for that to be
25:37accomplished okay so a dispersement
25:39after a case is is one or what we call
25:42settled the money comes into the client
25:44trust just like I I talked about a
25:47dispersement will recap how much money
25:50was won how much attorney fees how much
25:53expenses were witheld or earned for our
25:56firm in that and then it will list any
25:59loans or leans that need to be paid off
26:01and what I mean by that is like medical
26:03leans medical bills um insurance
26:06companies getting their money back for
26:08items that they paid and then it will
26:10show the balance that goes to the
26:13client and uh so then how do they
26:15interface with the finance staff what
26:16does the finance staff do as opposed to
26:19when the attorneys prepare those
26:21dispersement forms the F it comes over
26:23to our finance department we have the
26:24supporting documentation with it and we
26:27will process the checks based off the
26:29attorney's signature those then go back
26:32to the attorneys that handled the case
26:34or the pargal that handled the case they
26:37meet with the client and explain the
26:39dispersement to them and give them the
26:40funds okay uh is the finance staff
26:44relying on what the lawyers are sending
26:46them to determine what checks should be
26:48cut yes all right with support with
26:52support
26:55yes ultimately are they trusting the
26:57attorney to provide them the correct
26:59information we
27:02are all right so you mentioned uh that
27:04something happened in late 2020 that was
27:07the first things that you started to
27:08notice in the wake of the boting case
27:10that was a little different and tell the
27:12jury what you were about to talk
27:14about um as I said in late 2020 I I
27:19really didn't notice it at that point
27:23but um some of these items that we're
27:26going to discuss started happening at
27:28that point um my discovery of things
27:32started coming to ahead in May of 21 May
27:35of 20 21 yes all right and tell me uh
27:38what was the first thing that came to
27:39your attention because so one thing that
27:42came to attention was a dispersement
27:45that the fees were made out and process
27:48to forge Consulting and what that meant
27:53is that the fees weren't going into our
27:56personal account like they should they
27:58weren't going to the firm Forge is a
28:01forge Consulting is a true company that
28:05you can do structures of attorney fees
28:08but the way that this was done was not
28:11correct to do a correct structure let
28:14let me slow you down so we can we can
28:16unpack this a little bit all right let's
28:18first talk about what is a structure
28:20what is a a structure what does that
28:22mean so a structure means that you can
28:25set up a fee in the um agreement with
28:29the insurance company that you can put
28:32that money into an annuity that you'll
28:35get it out later you can avoid taxes now
28:38and take them out when you're 65 or
28:41whatever year you determine so it's a
28:43way that they can defer income for
28:45retirement if they're having a good year
28:47they can do that so so maybe an
28:50explanation would be kind of like the
28:51lottery you can either get your
28:52settlement one lump sum or you can get
28:54it paid over time correct correct all
28:57right and so this is what a structure is
28:59is getting it paid over time correct and
29:01are there tax benefits associated with
29:03doing a structure they would avoid taxes
29:05at the year that they made the fee and
29:08they would pay the taxes when they got
29:10it out similar to your retirement 401k
29:13and is it sometimes common for
29:15plaintiff's lawyers lawyers who get
29:17recoveries for clients uh to have their
29:21clients um get the settlement in a
29:23structure as opposed to getting it in
29:25all one lump sum so that there's some
29:26security over time with that money it is
29:29definitely a vehicle that can be used by
29:31pl's lawyers we don't do it very often
29:33when in our firm and when it is done it
29:36has to be every partner needs to know
29:38about it and needs to be agreed upon
29:40because obviously that money is not
29:41coming into the firm to help with
29:44overhead and expenses so we have to
29:47agree on it and we have to account for
29:49it in our allocations at the end of the
29:50year to determine bonuses that we're
29:52going to pay off sure and but I'm
29:54talking about with clients right now so
29:55clients that receive a settlement they
29:57can elect to either get it in one LP sum
30:00or they can get a structured annuity
30:03over time where they get however much a
30:05year for the however many years it goes
30:07correct yes that's true too kind of like
30:10the Lotter you can get the whole big
30:11thing but with taxes or you can get a
30:13bigger sum over time correct that's
30:17correct and so some clients might choose
30:19to get it over time so that their their
30:21money is is more secure over a longer
30:23time correct correct and you generally
30:25see that when um it's a minor involv or
30:28somebody with special needs that has a
30:30disability of some
30:32sort and so what is Forge Consulting the
30:35legitimate business fors Consulting what
30:37do they do they set up structured
30:39annuities for clients like we're talking
30:41about um they do Special Needs Trust for
30:45people who are injured or going to need
30:47life care plans and um they handle that
30:51kind of they have a few other things
30:53that they do but I'm not familiar as
30:55much with those Services have they
30:56provided Services over the years the
30:58legitimate company forg Consulting
31:00legitimate services to the law firm and
31:02his clients over the years and helping
31:04them set up structured settl I do we've
31:06used them 250 to 300 times and is there
31:10who's kind of like the main guy at Forge
31:12Consulting the legitimate business
31:14Michael gun all right now you mentioned
31:18that we're not talking now about the
31:19client structuring their settlements but
31:22what if a lawyer wins a big case and
31:24wants to so he's going to get a huge fee
31:27and let me ask you this first generally
31:30what is the legal fees for the firm when
31:34they win a case whether by settlement or
31:36by trial generally they're
31:3933% to 40% and it depends on what stage
31:44the case was in or the work we had to do
31:47so if we settle a case before we have to
31:50start doing suing complaints and
31:52depositions or going to trial we take 33
31:55and 13% if it goes further we do 40% and
31:59it can go to 45% if it's on an appeal
32:02but generally speaking it's between a
32:04third and
32:0640% so let's say that somebody's a
32:09partner and let's say they win a case of
32:11$10 million and it was a 40% one so
32:13they're going to get a $4 million fee
32:15correct correct all right let's say that
32:18they decided that instead of taking that
32:20fee that $4 million fee they want to
32:22structure that fee just like a client
32:24would can they do that they can do that
32:27and that's what I was referring to
32:29before with the um authorization of the
32:33other partners and making sure that we
32:35have enough money to operate and enough
32:37money to account for it if they do that
32:40it's supposed to be done in the release
32:43in the insurance company will send the
32:45money directly to forge Consulting and
32:47not through us okay because it can't go
32:51through y'all directly or it doesn't
32:53work or he would not get the tax benefit
32:55of it and if a if an attorney still had
32:57to do do that they're going to have to
32:58work everything out with y'all to make
33:00sure everything's accounted for for the
33:02end of the year bonuses and everything
33:03else that's correct is that a common
33:05thing that people in The Firm were doing
33:07no all right so kind of setting all that
33:10up did you uh what came to your
33:12attention as it related to the defendant
33:14Alec Murdock so in May 17 there was a
33:17dispersement called herburger that the
33:20fees were said it said I i' would have
33:23to look at the exact dispersement but it
33:25said structured fees Forge and it had an
33:29amount um get something yeah
34:19all right I'm going to show you what's
34:21been marked as exhibit 429 to your
34:23testimony and I have you just flip
34:24through that real quick and tell me
34:26generally what that is say okay this is
34:29um the dispersements to do with the
34:32money recovered in the herburger case
34:34and this one had multiple dispersements
34:36all right but let's just talk about the
34:38uh the one you were just referring to
34:40I'll show it to you this this page on
34:42the third page of this exhibit is that
34:44right that's right all right pick up
34:45your story what did you notice that came
34:47to your attention so it says PMP a PMP
34:53attorney fee and in the parentheses had
34:56Forge um the check had been made out
34:58payable to forge and I knew this was
35:01incorrect so I went and had a discussion
35:04with elec about
35:05this and um the basics of the discussion
35:09was we needed to know about if they were
35:12going to do a a structured annuity we
35:15needed to do it also told him that the
35:17way he had done it was incorrect that he
35:20would not be saving any tax consequences
35:22that he needed to properly set it up
35:25with the insurance company on the front
35:27side
35:28right and why wasn't it done right why
35:29were you telling at least from what you
35:31knew at the time why did you think it
35:33was not being done right basically
35:35because it should have gone from the
35:37insurance company directly to forge we
35:39would not write a check and send it to
35:41forge for a structured fee let me put
35:45this up on the screen just real
35:47quick no other objection to 429 all
35:51right this time I'd move
35:54uh States 429 into evidence I believe
35:57without additional
36:03objection all right so is this the
36:06dispersement sheet you were talking
36:07about yes sir and this is generally the
36:10first one the jury's seen but is just
36:11generally how dispersement sheets look
36:13that are prepared by the law firm yes
36:16you generally see the caption and then
36:18our our inside number which is the
36:20matter ID you'll see the recovery and
36:23who's paid out then the next section
36:26should be your fee and
36:28expenses all right so you've got the fee
36:30right there correct that's correct and
36:32then you have expenses and what are
36:34generally what are expenses so the
36:35expenses are the case cost that we paid
36:38going along cost to um get depositions
36:41and pay transcribers medical records
36:44expert
36:45opinions um sometimes vehicles are
36:48involved that we store so it's anything
36:50that we pay on behalf of that case all
36:53right and so they'll have to come out of
36:55the recovery too correct that's correct
36:57and that's separate from the attorney's
36:58fees right correct right so when the
37:01when y'all settle a case you're going to
37:03get your attorney's fees but you're also
37:05going to get paid back any costs and
37:06expenses you had to litigate the case
37:08that's correct two separate amounts
37:10correct all right and then we've got a
37:13lean explain to me what a lean is and
37:15what how those affect dispersements if
37:17you look so a lean is it could be as
37:20simple as paying a doctor's bill that
37:23was um guaranteed or it can be paying
37:26back subreg
37:28which means subreg just means if you had
37:31insurance that covered it personally
37:32your Blue Cross Blue Shield and we
37:35recovered money Blue Cross Blue Shield
37:37or Medicare and Medicaid if you had that
37:40would them be seeking their money back
37:43so that would be a
37:45lean sometimes somebody who got injured
37:47like in a car wreck or something might
37:49have medical bills and there's a lean
37:50for that yes and sometimes funds might
37:54be withheld to satisfy those medical
37:56bills that's correct too is it common
37:58for the law firm to then negotiate with
38:00the medical provider like a hospital or
38:02whatever and see if he can get that
38:04medical bill down to a number they'll
38:06settle for that is that is correct and
38:09then if you save any money between what
38:11their bill was and what you get them to
38:13accept is that additional money that
38:14should go back to the client that's
38:16right and are those very common in these
38:17types of cases yes and generally we will
38:19not hold up dispersing the money to the
38:22client waiting on that to happen because
38:24it can take a while so we may have a
38:26dispersement that leaves some money in
38:28our account the balance of those bills
38:30while we're negotiating them and then
38:32we'll do a second dispersement to pay
38:34those clients that money or the provider
38:36of the money right so you pay them the
38:38big amount first and then if you're
38:39lucky enough to settle for a lesser
38:40amount then that whatever is left over
38:42you'll send to them later
38:44correct all right so then down here we
38:46have then the ultimate uh settle uh
38:49dispersement to the the beneficiaries
38:51the clients is that correct that's right
38:53right and if there's multiple as this
38:55one you would see the split between the
38:57to all right and just real quick whose
38:59signature is that right there that is
39:00Alex and have you you worked with them
39:02for how long or or did work with them
39:04for 23 years 22 years all right and so
39:07you got very familiar with his signature
39:09yes you recognize that as his signature
39:11yes all right going back here to this
39:13dispersement we had BMP attorney's fee
39:16Forge and then you had that
39:26amount and then and what is this next
39:28page of this exhibit that's the cancel
39:30check payable to forge for
39:33$83,000 33 all right and you recognize
39:36that sign signature on there that's
39:39Alex and so when you were when we last
39:43left off you were telling Alec that it
39:46had been done wrong because it had gone
39:48straight from the trust account direct
39:52to what you believe to be forged at the
39:54time correct correct and it can't go to
39:55the law firm or the tax benefits go away
39:58that's right all right so you raised
40:01those issues with Alec uh what did what
40:04was his response when you first talked
40:06to him about this his response was that
40:08he was not worried so much about the tax
40:11ramifications and saving the taxes but
40:14that he was trying to get money in
40:15Maggie's name due to the boat accident
40:17that had happened in February of 20
40:202019 all right did he go ahead he also
40:23brought up the fact that he was friends
40:26with Michael gun and that was going to
40:28try to work with Michael gun putting up
40:31some fees during the year as a favor to
40:33Michael gun and to help him accomplish
40:35putting money in Maggie's name right did
40:38he say anything and I apologize if you
40:39already said this did he say anything in
40:41response to your pointing out that this
40:43isn't going to work for the tax benefit
40:46he he said that's fine he was not
40:48worried about the tax benefit so much as
40:50getting the money in Maggie's name
40:51because of what the boat wreck because
40:53of the boat wreck all right did that
40:56concern you at all yes it did and why
40:58did it concern you because that is
41:01hiding assets and we're not going to be
41:04part of any hiding assets or or any
41:07wrongdoing so we were very concerned
41:10that he was trying to to do that and we
41:13didn't want to be a part of
41:15it uh at that point in time did you do
41:18anything about it or did you kind of
41:20table the matter for the time being we
41:21kind of tabled the matter for the mind
41:23for the time being um we I had it kind
41:27of set aside trying to figure out how am
41:29I going to account for this in my books
41:31and we were going to go back and talk to
41:33Partners and kind of figure out what we
41:34were going to
41:36do ultimately when is the sort of the
41:39drop dead deadline that you have to
41:40account for everything in the
41:42books usually I will do our final
41:44closing and balance all the time but
41:46usually we'll do that final accounting
41:48in December so I really start drilling
41:50down and looking at everything and
41:52balancing out in December but I knew I
41:54had till December to figure this out and
41:57at that point I was more concerned about
42:00how we were going to put it on our books
42:03and also letting the partners know what
42:05was going on so we can make sure that it
42:08didn't it was disclosed to his attorneys
42:11with the boat rack
42:14stuff you kind of just put that aside
42:16but keep it in the back of your mind
42:19right uh this is in May of what year did
42:22this happen 21 all right later on that
42:25month did you uh
42:28receive a communication of any sort from
42:30Alex pargal I did on Monday real quick
42:33that is an at griswell all right she's
42:36one of his par illegals and what did
42:38that what communication did she have
42:40with you so I received an email I was
42:42working in our wboro office that day and
42:44I have received an email from Annette
42:46that said she needed to talk to me in
42:48private and um could I please meet with
42:51her when I got back in the office so
42:53when I did get back in the office we met
42:56um and she came to me with
42:59um with another concern that in another
43:02file that we had right and tell me uh
43:06what file was that so this file was we
43:08refer to it as the ferris file and it
43:11was a a case with Ferris versus MTH
43:14truck that had a fairly significant
43:16settlement and the concern was that we
43:19had only received the expenses when on
43:23on this this let me first say this case
43:25was handled by Chris Wilson's firm and
43:27they were handling the dispersement all
43:29the money went through their account and
43:31they drafted the dispersement and met
43:32with the client so if that happens
43:35typically the associate attorney will
43:37mail us our fee check and our expense
43:39check at the same
43:41time let me uh so let me slow you down
43:43so this particular case the feris case
43:45was Alec Murdoch the only attorney
43:48attorney on that
43:49case in our firm I believe he was but
43:52Chris Wilson was the associated Chris
43:55Wilson and pmpd or in a different firm
43:57no he's in his own different firm and
43:59does that happen sometimes that two
44:01lawyers one lawyer from your firm and
44:03one lawyer from another firm will share
44:04a case yes we have quite a lot of that
44:06all right and then ultimately those fees
44:08have to be split whichever way they
44:10agreed to do that is that correct that's
44:11correct and then sometimes if the
44:14settlement money or the trial money
44:16comes into that other firm then they
44:17have to disperse the fees and expenses
44:20to you that's correct and tell the jury
44:23again what was anette's concern did she
44:24receive part of it but not the other
44:26thing Anette received only a check for
44:28the
44:29expenses but not the fees not the fee
44:32which is unusual right so she had
44:35already unbeknownst to me contacted my
44:37staff to make sure that we had not
44:39received that fee prior and indeed we
44:42checked and it had not been so the
44:44conversation inette had with me that day
44:47was her concern that we were missing the
44:51feed check and she'd had some
44:54conversations with Vicky Lyman who is
44:57Chris Wilson's
44:58paralal and that led in it to believe
45:01that ell had already had the money paid
45:03to him and that that's the concern that
45:06she reported to you yes right hold on
45:09for me and I'm going to show you what's
45:10been marked as States 312 one second
46:24I believe stage 312 is offered for
46:26admission with no additional objection
46:28that's correct your on I admit
46:31it all right I'm going to show you this
46:33uh packet of documents um I'm going to
46:36go to some emails that are within it and
46:41uh first of all I'm going to show you
46:42this one right here and just see if you
46:44recognize that please I do all right
46:47tell me what that is this is an email
46:49from Vicky Lyman who's the paralal for
46:51Chris Wilson to Annette Griswald who's
46:54the paralal for ell Murdoch
46:57and in it anette's questioning why did
47:00we get the expenses and no fee Vicky
47:04replied back dear friend it's only cost
47:08because your boss and mine got their
47:09fees once they were signed All right so
47:12that's what why Annette brought that
47:14concern to you yes all right did you
47:17have any conversation with Annette about
47:18what to do um well Annette expressed
47:22concern about um tattling on ell and
47:26perhaps getting being in trouble for for
47:28him a retaliation from him so I told her
47:32what's the concern what's the concern
47:33right now the concern
47:37is I just asked her what her concern was
47:40the concern was that that money had been
47:42stol there's an objection wait yes
47:45sir he's asking her what Annette's
47:48concern was and Annette needs to testify
47:51about her own concern
47:54right State the question please I'll
47:56restate the question what was your
47:58concern my concern was that he had
48:00stolen the fees and they were paid to
48:02him
48:05personally all right um did you uh in
48:08this conversation with Annette did you
48:09instruct her to do anything did you send
48:11any
48:12email I sent an email to Annette um
48:17asking for Annette to get copies of the
48:20complete dispersement from Chris
48:22Wilson's office along with a copy of
48:24what we call the general ledger print
48:26out which would show the deposit and the
48:28checks um and the supporting document to
48:31the dispersement often times we'll just
48:33get a copy of the dispersement so I
48:35asked for the full records like we would
48:37have in our office and what did you tell
48:39Annette to do once you sent that email
48:40to her Annette forwarded that email to
48:43Vicky Lyman at Chris Wilson's office all
48:45right and I'm going to show you what's
48:48been uh was part of exhibit 312 and it's
48:51marked as 2374 at the bottom and just
48:54kind of read that email going up is that
48:56that the email that you sent to Annette
48:58yes and is that the one that you were
49:00asking her to forward on yes to request
49:03additional information from Chris
49:05Wilson's office to try to get to the
49:06bottom of it yes all right and if we go
49:09to the prior
49:10[Applause]
49:12page is that where Annette forwarded
49:14that document on to Vicky Lyman at Chris
49:17Wilson's office this is all right
49:27all right and just real quick what was
49:28the date on that uh email when it was
49:31ultimately forwarded to Vicky Lyman at
49:34Chris Wilson's office that email was
49:36sent on May 27th but Vicky was out of
49:40the office on vacation so Vicky replied
49:42to anet on June 2nd upon her return okay
49:47and what was the reply and the reply was
49:49just clarifying what documents that they
49:51needed and um at that point Vicki
49:54replies back to and that she's not privy
49:57to that information but she'll forward
49:59it on to Chris Wilson to her boss Chris
50:02Wilson yes all right so y'all have yall
50:05gotten an answer at this point no right
50:07so what's the next step what happens
50:09after that so we're waiting for a while
50:11and on Monday May 7th I went to Alex's
50:16office searching for him after lunch um
50:19after you sent the this email on June
50:212nd did Alec ever reach out to you or
50:23talk to you about about the inquiries
50:26that you were making about where these
50:27fees were yes he actually came in the
50:29next day um first thing Chris did not
50:32answer me but ell came in the first
50:34thing and said um that money's in
50:37Chris's trust why do you need all this
50:39information and I basically said we just
50:42need it for our records it's what we
50:44have in ours and it's required for us to
50:46keep he assured me that the money was
50:48over there and that he'd get the records
50:50and and they would get everything that
50:52we needed and that was some point after
50:54June 2nd believe it was the next this
50:56morning all right and did you seek him
50:58out or did he seek you out to say hey no
51:00that money's there the whole time he
51:02seek me out all right and that's what he
51:04told you
51:05yes all right uh did um around this time
51:09did anybody else did y'all did you have
51:11any discussions with any of the other
51:13partners about what was going on with
51:14this I did I'd initially gone to Lee
51:17hope because he was one of the he's one
51:19of the partners that does a lot of the
51:21managing and he happened to be the one
51:24that was in the office when this was
51:26going on that I could find and talk to
51:28and he also helped me come up with the
51:31plan of how we were going to handle it
51:33so ell would not think and that was
51:36questioning um Mark Ball also knew some
51:40about it
51:42so
51:48um did uh was there any discussion about
51:51anyone contacting Chris Wilson after we
51:54didn't get it that that came later that
51:57came later that came later okay all
51:59right uh so Alec comes to you and says
52:02all that money's there what's the next
52:04thing that happened that you did so the
52:06next thing that happened was on Monday
52:09May on June 7th I went looking for let
52:13me slow you down on Monday June 7th yes
52:15what year 21 June 7th 2021 what happened
52:20went to look for ell and when I got
52:22upstairs he was standing outside of his
52:24office leaning on a file cabinet and he
52:26looked at me with a a pretty dirty look
52:29one I'd not seen before and said what do
52:31you need now um clearly disgusted with
52:35me which kind of raised my Hackle so I
52:38said well let's go in your office and
52:40talk about it we we went in his office I
52:43said I told him I said I have reason to
52:45believe that you received the feris
52:47money directly to you and you need to
52:49prove to me that you did not and um he
52:53assured me again that the money was in
52:55there I told him I still needed to see
52:58the ledgers or proof that it
53:00was again he told me the money was in
53:03there that we could get it any time said
53:05he was trying to leave it in there to
53:07decide what to do as far as structuring
53:09some more money or putting more money in
53:11Maggie's
53:12name you you asked him for proof is that
53:15correct yes proof that he didn't have
53:18that money
53:20yes did you were you able to complete
53:22that conversation on the morning of June
53:247th 2021 was actually the afternoon of
53:27June 7th afternoon but no we were not
53:30able to complete it during the middle of
53:31our conversation um he took a phone call
53:34and the call was saying that his father
53:38was in the hospital and that there was
53:39nothing more could be done and he was
53:41terminal so at that point you know I've
53:44known elec for since I was 16 years old
53:47known the family forever it turned into
53:49a personal conversation about how's your
53:52dad doing how's everything doing you
53:54know what's going on
53:56and I basically thought he was leaving
53:59to go to the hospital to attend to his
54:01father so I left the office at that time
54:04and we did not discuss the money
54:07anymore you thought he was leaving to go
54:09I thought he was going to go to see
54:11about his
54:13father um he had gotten a phone call
54:16about his father June 7th 2021 correct
54:18that's
54:19right did you
54:21have a conversation with Alec later on
54:25that day we did around four o'clock my
54:28phone rang and I remember because I was
54:29surprised that he was still there and
54:32ell was asking me some information about
54:34his 401k balance and why was he doing
54:38that he was doing that because he stated
54:40he had to get some documents and
54:41financials together for a hearing
54:44regarding the boat wreck later that week
54:46he needed his own financial information
54:48for a hearing for the boat case that
54:50week correct that's correct
55:04you know when the boat case was or the
55:06boat case hearing was I believe it was
55:08June 10th June 10th 21 within a few days
55:12within a few
55:15days
55:19um were you surprised to hear from him
55:21in the office I was cuz I thought he was
55:24leaving thought he was leaving because
55:25of the call from his about his Grand his
55:27father his
55:43father did you go home at the end of
55:45work that day I
55:47did went back home and had a normal
55:49evening yes until about 10:30 tell me
55:53what happened at 10:30 um I got a call
55:55or started getting text from Friends
55:57asking if I'd heard if Maggie and ell I
56:01mean Maggie and Paul had been
56:03shot um I didn't know anything about it
56:06they were hearing things on scanners so
56:09I've sent texts to a couple of the
56:11attorneys and did not hear back until
56:14probably 2:00 in the night Mark emailed
56:18me back or texted me back that they in
56:20fact had been shot and killed
56:28was that shocking it was very
56:31shocking was everybody scared very scary
56:35you know nobody knew what was going on
56:38so very
56:43scary did the you said this Law Firm is
56:46like a Brotherhood correct that's
56:49correct did everyone rally to Alexa we
56:52did there nothing happened that week at
56:55work um everybody spent time with El
56:59trying to support him bringing family
57:01meals attending the funerals so nothing
57:05happened all
57:08week after the murders happened was
57:10anybody at all concerned about getting
57:13the proof for those missing fees after
57:16those murders happened at that point in
57:19time we weren't because we were
57:20concerned about ell um he wasn't working
57:24a whole lot he was um erratic we knew he
57:28was taking pills um we were just worried
57:32about hi sanity so we weren't going to
57:35go in there and harass him about money
57:38when we were worried about his mental
57:40state and the fact that this his family
57:42had been killed um it just wasn't even
57:47on our mind at that
57:50point wouldn't be on your mind would it
57:52no
58:01as a few weeks went
58:04on
58:06um did you ever receive any
58:09communication about those
58:14fees that kind of put the matter to bed
58:17at least a little bit we did Lee c who
58:19is one of the partners took over um he
58:23you know he we decided we were not going
58:25to press
58:26but Lee made some contact with Chris
58:28Wilson during that time asking Chris for
58:32information um and I believe after that
58:34ellex searched me out again and said hey
58:37I've got that money um but it wasn't
58:39until I believe it was July 19th I
58:42received an email that Chris had
58:44forwarded to elec elec then forwarded
58:47the email to myself and Le hope and in
58:50that email it said I am holding the fees
58:53for the fairis case and he named the
58:55amounts said they are available anytime
58:58that you should need them so we're being
59:01told by outside Council that the money
59:03is
59:04there did you trust what you were being
59:07told yes when you got that email that at
59:10least for the toing that looked like the
59:12matter was put to bed yes I mean these
59:14are members of the bar who've taken a SW
59:16orth that we're supposed to trust and
59:18they're telling us the money is
59:23there I'm still an exhibit 312 I'm going
59:27to put this up on the screen do you
59:29recognize
59:32that that is the email that I'm
59:35referring
59:37to
59:41and this email comes from who to who
59:44comes from Chris Wilson to Alec Murdoch
59:47and then it gets sent to who myself and
59:50Lee cope from who from ell Murdoch all
59:53right
59:58and can you read uh to the
1:00:02jury that paragraph right there what was
1:00:05uh forwarded to you to sort of put this
1:00:08matter to bed Alex as discussed I am
1:00:12confirming that I'm holding in trust
1:00:14$600,000 in the andreil ferris case and
1:00:18192,000 in the Denise feris case which
1:00:21represent attorney fees I will continue
1:00:23to hold these monies in trust until I'm
1:00:25instru Ed by you and your firm regarding
1:00:33payment does that leave you to believe
1:00:35that those monies have been there all
1:00:41along yes with some hesitation on my
1:00:44part because I just it still seemed a
1:00:47little shaky to me but I've decided that
1:00:49I would have to believe what was
1:00:51presented to
1:00:53me and this uh what's the D on this
1:00:56particular email July
1:00:5819th so we're just over 2021 just over a
1:01:01month after murders is that correct yes
1:01:03a little
1:01:12ever I take you forward a little
1:01:16bit well let me ask you this in that
1:01:19time period and July and August going
1:01:22into early September is elec in the
1:01:24office much he's not in the office very
1:01:26much
1:01:27now
1:01:30um you had uh mentioned before uh the
1:01:34first thing that kind of came your
1:01:35attention in what case was that herb and
1:01:38Bears all right
1:01:43um at some point in time does that
1:01:46herburger matter kind of come back to
1:01:47your attention to take a look at that um
1:01:49yes like I said I had it sitting there
1:01:51on my desktop right in front of me um
1:01:54but due to work and personal obligations
1:01:56and things that were happening that
1:01:58summer I didn't start looking again
1:02:00until September and um decided to start
1:02:03coming through his fees for the year and
1:02:06just making sure that we had not missed
1:02:10anything else before you go on with that
1:02:13around that same time as you're doing
1:02:15that does Annette Griswald come into
1:02:17your office she did incidentally during
1:02:20the day after I'd found what I'm about
1:02:23to discuss with you she walks into the
1:02:25office and had found a check on Alex's
1:02:28desk that was made payable to Richard
1:02:31Alexander Murdoch and it was from Chris
1:02:34Wilson's trust account and the amount I
1:02:36believe was
1:02:38$225,000 and it was um signed and on the
1:02:42memo varis
1:02:44fees all right I'm going to show you
1:02:46what's been marked as States
1:02:50313 see if you recognize
1:02:53that that's the check I'm just
1:02:55discussing all right your honor this
1:02:56time I would move uh States 313 in
1:02:59evidence no
1:03:01additional admitt it and what is States
1:03:04313 that is a check from Chris Wilson's
1:03:07client trust account payable to Richard
1:03:10Alexander Murdoch Esquire in the amount
1:03:12of
1:03:13$225,000 referencing feris fees is it
1:03:17made out to the law firm no who's it
1:03:19made out to it's made out to him
1:03:21personally Richard Alexander
1:03:23M when you see this
1:03:26check what if anything is your
1:03:29realization that he stole the money that
1:03:32he'd been
1:03:34lying and what's the date on that
1:03:37check March 10th
1:03:432021 all right so when that brings you
1:03:46that check and you're also looking uh at
1:03:49the four you said explain what you were
1:03:51doing as well when when this is going on
1:03:53so simultaneously that day I I decided
1:03:56to print out a listing of Forge payments
1:03:58to forge Consulting and as I was
1:04:01printing those out I was printing
1:04:03supporting documents and cancel checks
1:04:06and as the cancel checks hit the back of
1:04:08my printer I could see ell Murdoch's
1:04:10signature on the back it would say ell
1:04:12Murdoch and a lot of them were Bank of
1:04:15America and as everyone come out I
1:04:18started noticing it more and more and a
1:04:20sick the sickest feeling you could feel
1:04:23in the world I knew that he was stealing
1:04:25all this money money um at that point
1:04:29William Barnes just happened to call
1:04:31over to my office and said what are you
1:04:33doing how are you doing today and I said
1:04:34I'm about to throw up you need to come
1:04:36over here and showed him the checks at
1:04:39which point he verified that he thought
1:04:42that was Alex signature as
1:04:44well from there we called Mark Ball Mark
1:04:48Ball came and looked over the
1:04:50information we showed him the proof of
1:04:52the check of the 225,000 and Mark
1:04:55noticed that one of the cases that he
1:04:57definitely knew it could not have been
1:04:59going to forge because it was a workers
1:05:01comp case which case was that that was
1:05:04Thomas Moore keep going um so he knew
1:05:08that that money couldn't have been sent
1:05:11no matter what we also discussed this
1:05:14with Lee cope and we were trying to
1:05:16decide how are we going to handle this
1:05:17what are we going to do Lee cope it was
1:05:20decided that Lee cope would contact
1:05:22Michael gun directly and we Nam a few of
1:05:26the cases we got a few of the names Lee
1:05:29contacted Michael gun asked them if
1:05:31there had ever been to please verify if
1:05:33there had ever been any structures with
1:05:34that and also asked Michael gun if they'
1:05:37been banking at Bank of
1:05:39America Michael's reply to Lee was they
1:05:43they had not banked at Bank of America
1:05:45in a number of years and that he was
1:05:47unable to verify that those were indeed
1:05:50set structured fees for those clients
1:05:52all right so let me let me slow you down
1:05:54real quick
1:05:56you researched what name in there Forge
1:05:59Consulting so you're researching in your
1:06:01system Forge Consulting correct to see
1:06:03any instances where it was an Alec
1:06:06Murdoch case that went to forge
1:06:08Consulting correct correct and did you
1:06:10find a number of checks we did you have
1:06:12access to the firm trust account checks
1:06:15on your system yes and when you saw
1:06:17those checks what did You observe they
1:06:19caused that sickening feeling you just
1:06:22described they were made to forge
1:06:25instead of Forge Consulting but also the
1:06:28fact that his signature was on the back
1:06:30and the endorsement on the back was Bank
1:06:32of America what did that indicate to you
1:06:34about all those checks when you saw his
1:06:36signature on them that they were stolen
1:06:39fees stolen
1:06:54money that's different from this correct
1:06:56that's
1:07:00correct what's being
1:07:02stolen what if anything is being stolen
1:07:05with exhibit
1:07:06313 the Fe the check is being written
1:07:10directly to Richard Alexander Murdoch
1:07:12and in the other scheme it was written
1:07:15to a forge account which we realized was
1:07:18a fank forge bank account we found in
1:07:21the office a few days later bank
1:07:23statements that said Richard Alexander
1:07:26MDOT doing business as
1:07:47Forge all right so you say a few days
1:07:49later in Alex's office you found some
1:07:51bank statements that's correct do you
1:07:53remember what bank they were on Bank of
1:07:54America and I'm going to show you what's
1:07:56been marked as exhibit 335 and see if
1:07:59you represent uh recognize that just as
1:08:01an example I do and what is that this is
1:08:04a bank statement from Bank of America
1:08:06with the name Richard A Murdoch Soul
1:08:09prop which means proprietor doing
1:08:12business as Forge and it has Alex home
1:08:15address as the contact on the bank
1:08:18account and you found bank statements on
1:08:20this account in his office correct
1:08:22that's right is this the legitimate forg
1:08:24bank account it's the fake Forge bank
1:08:32account we don't have any
1:08:35additional I would offer a 335 your
1:08:37honor at this
1:08:46time is that the name that's on that was
1:08:49on the account that you found yes
1:08:55and you called it quote fake Forge fake
1:08:57Forge and why do you call it fake Forge
1:09:00because there is a real Forge Consulting
1:09:02but this was a fake company that he set
1:09:04up to mimic and look like and designed
1:09:07to look like Forge the real Forge who's
1:09:10the main guy at the real Forge Michael
1:09:12gun and does this account right here in
1:09:15Alec Murdoch's name have anything to do
1:09:17with the real Forge absolutely
1:09:23none going back to to exhibit
1:09:27313 this
1:09:29check the problem is who who should have
1:09:32this check been made out to that should
1:09:33have been made out to Peters Mur Parker
1:09:35elrath and distri to the law firm
1:09:37correct that's right all right
1:09:40so who who is who is not getting what
1:09:43they're supposed to get in this instance
1:09:44for this check the law firm when we
1:09:47start talking about the fake Forge
1:09:50account who's generally not getting what
1:09:52they're supposed to get is the law firm
1:09:54or someone else generally the client
1:09:56sometimes the law firm but generally the
1:09:58client generally the
1:10:00clients all
1:10:21right show you what's been marked at
1:10:23States 3:14
1:10:26see if you recognize
1:10:32this yes this is a spreadsheet of all
1:10:35the payments made to the fake Forge
1:10:38referencing each client in the amount
1:10:40that was stolen from each client and did
1:10:43you prepare that I did all right and is
1:10:45this based on an investigation that you
1:10:48had to do in the wake of all of this yes
1:10:50we did we we also had forensic Auditors
1:10:54come in and look at this we had we hired
1:10:57former FBI to come in and look at this
1:10:59and we've also self-reported to the
1:11:02office of disciplinary Council which
1:11:04maintains licenses and we've turned over
1:11:0710 years of information to them at least
1:11:10and provided them with all
1:11:12this let me see it real quick at this
1:11:16time we would move into evidence States
1:11:19314 honor we do not have any additional
1:11:22objections provided it's understand that
1:11:25we understand that it's being offered
1:11:26for The Limited purpose for which your
1:11:28honor instructed the jury yesterday
1:11:30that's it's not character evidence it's
1:11:32only the motive according to the state's
1:11:34theory yes
1:11:38sir thank
1:11:40you all right
1:12:10we're going to pick up on your story a
1:12:11little bit
1:12:12but you were saying that when Annette
1:12:16Griswald around the time she brought you
1:12:18that Chris Wilson check that had Alex's
1:12:20number name on it you also were bringing
1:12:24up in search and Forge in your system
1:12:26and that's when you saw all these quote
1:12:28fake Forge checks correct that's
1:12:30correct uh and you mentioned that you
1:12:32went and talked to some Partners about
1:12:33it and that sort of thing correct that's
1:12:35correct we're going to talk about that
1:12:36in a minute but just real quick as we go
1:12:40to exhibit
1:12:42314 this is that spreadsheet that you
1:12:44prepared is that correct that's
1:12:49correct and we have the what's this
1:12:52right here that is the day of the check
1:12:57where the funds were stolen from all
1:13:00right and then right here that's the
1:13:02client name all right and then right
1:13:04here that's what we call the civil
1:13:06action number if it's been filed within
1:13:08the court all right and then the
1:13:10category is what type that he did most
1:13:13of them are forg payments or you see a
1:13:16couple other took insurance so it's he
1:13:18had a few methods all right and then
1:13:22over here is that when y'all had to pay
1:13:23the money back yes so for each one of
1:13:26these the money that was stolen all the
1:13:28partners got together and had to put the
1:13:30money back into client trust and we went
1:13:33through and corrected and met with every
1:13:35client and distributed money back to
1:13:37them um that's an ongoing basis still
1:13:41going on so for all these clients you
1:13:44had to pay the law firm had to pay money
1:13:46back the Partners came up with money and
1:13:48paid all the all the clients back and
1:13:51why did y'all have to pay all that money
1:13:52back because Alec had stolen it
1:14:04we're going to talk about these in a
1:14:06minute but if we look at
1:14:08the bottom at least for this category
1:14:11what was the total that you have at
1:14:12least for this category
1:14:152,841
1:14:2251255 and at least in this category
1:14:30the earliest date we have is roughly
1:14:32what year
1:14:412015 all right let's go back to uh early
1:14:44September do you remember what day it
1:14:46was that all this was happening
1:14:47September 2nd all right and and that
1:14:51brings you this check uh you're finding
1:14:53these things you say you talk to some of
1:14:54the part about this correct and what
1:14:57happens after that what do y'all just
1:14:58what do y'all do we had a partner
1:15:00meeting at Lee cop's house the morning
1:15:02of Friday September 3rd is the defendant
1:15:06there no right is Randy Murdoch there
1:15:09Randy is not there
1:15:11initially um
1:15:13initially we just we showed all the
1:15:16remaining Partners what we had found in
1:15:18that um that he had been stealing the
1:15:22consensus was let's get Randy in here
1:15:25and let show him so he wasn't
1:15:27blindsided Randy came in we presented
1:15:30him the evidence and he immediately hung
1:15:33his head and said he stole it we've got
1:15:37to do something about this right anybody
1:15:41then uh go make contact with the
1:15:43defendant
1:15:44so Danny Henderson and Randy Murdoch
1:15:47went to confront El about
1:15:50it and what was reported to you after
1:15:52that conversation the report was that la
1:15:55had admitted that he stole the money and
1:15:57that we were forcing him to
1:16:07resign in the wake of all of that you
1:16:09ultimately had to start doing this
1:16:11review is that correct yes and the
1:16:14spreadsheet that we're about to go
1:16:15through reflects those various
1:16:17transactions is that correct that's
1:16:18right
1:16:33take a break now if you go to the Jury
1:16:34Room please do not discuss the
1:16:37case thank you you may proceed thank you
1:16:40honor mate Police Court yes sir Mr
1:16:43seconder uh before the break just to
1:16:44reset the table uh you had
1:16:48um gone in did you go into Alex office
1:16:51on June 7th
1:16:532021 for proof that he had not taken the
1:16:55Chris Wilson fees yes and then that
1:16:59conversation got uh delayed correct yes
1:17:02got disrupted and delayed the murders
1:17:04happened correct did you receive an
1:17:07email in July leading you believe that
1:17:09the Chris Wilson fees were in the
1:17:11account all along we did and then we
1:17:13moved to September when inette Griswald
1:17:16Alex pergal did she bring you a check
1:17:18showing that in fact those checks had
1:17:20been written to Alec back in March of
1:17:212021 that's correct and at the same time
1:17:24you were going through uh the system and
1:17:26looking at payments to forge correct
1:17:29correct and the real Forge is headed by
1:17:31who who's the main guy there Michael gun
1:17:33all right and then ultimately though you
1:17:35determined these were going to what you
1:17:36called what fake Forge fake Forge which
1:17:39was account set up uh to look like Forge
1:17:42but in the name of who Richard Alexander
1:17:44Murdoch the defendant yes and then once
1:17:46you uncovered that that started to pull
1:17:49the thread into a series of things
1:17:52you're about to testify going back uh
1:17:54the preceding years is that correct
1:17:56that's correct and so that's kind of
1:17:57where we left off that's right all
1:18:01right we're going to go back and look at
1:18:04um States
1:18:06314 and we're just going to do these in
1:18:09order and move expeditiously as we can
1:18:45all right I'll show you what's been
1:18:46marked as uh States
1:18:48[Music]
1:18:49317 so you're uh to this trial and see
1:18:53if you recognize that
1:18:55I this is the dispersement statement for
1:18:57Audriana Hay all right your honor this
1:19:00time state would offer States 317 into
1:19:03evidence uh no additional objection your
1:19:06honor ADM all right and tell the jury
1:19:09what this is very quickly so in this one
1:19:12there's a recovery of
1:19:14$247,500 there's attorney fees of
1:19:18$22,000 expenses of
1:19:20$426 54 and then the settlement proc
1:19:24proceeds to forge Consulting for the
1:19:26client's amount of
1:19:28$225,700
1:19:3046 right and that's the dispersement
1:19:32sheet that was signed by who do you
1:19:34recognize the signature on there Alex
1:19:36all right and uh let me put it up on the
1:19:39screen
1:19:42for was uh This Record was this found in
1:19:44the files of of the law firm
1:19:53yes and signatur is that right there
1:19:56Alex what's the date on this 1220
1:20:002018 and what's the first name of the
1:20:02client here please
1:20:04Adriana all right and we look at this uh
1:20:08this particular dispersement has got the
1:20:09recovery amount that's how much money
1:20:10came in is that correct that's correct
1:20:13and then we have an attorney's fee yes
1:20:15and that looks like that's a reduced fee
1:20:18all right it's a reduced fee in as much
1:20:20as not why did you say it's a reduced
1:20:22fee it's not a third or either 40 % of
1:20:25the
1:20:26$247,500 all right and then we've got
1:20:30expenses is that correct yes and then
1:20:32finally we have this line right
1:20:35here what does that say
1:20:37again settlement proceeds to forge
1:20:40Consulting $225,700
1:20:56exhibits after the in
1:21:04evidence is there any in evidence or not
1:21:08this particular exhibit
1:21:13yes thank
1:21:15you all right and uh looking at the
1:21:17second page of this exhibit what is this
1:21:19this is the check made payable to forge
1:21:21for the $225,700
1:21:246 and that went to the fake Forge yes
1:21:28right did the law firm ultimately have
1:21:30to pay that money back we did and why
1:21:32did you have to pay it back because
1:21:34ellex stole
1:21:42it again looking at these dispersement
1:21:44sheets these are prepared by the
1:21:46attorneys and their staff is that
1:21:47correct that's correct and then they're
1:21:49delivered to the finance staff correct
1:21:51and then the finance staff uses that to
1:21:53do what to to um cut the checks and give
1:21:56them back to the the attorney to
1:21:58disperse to the clients so this first
1:21:59sheet was delivered to your staff is
1:22:01that correct correct and then they did
1:22:03what they wrote the checks as per the
1:22:06dispersement and why did they do what El
1:22:09Murdoch requested them to do they
1:22:10trusted him and he was their boss and
1:22:13that's thought they thought they should
1:22:18do all right going to the next one
1:22:26States
1:22:48318 show you what's in Mark States
1:22:513:18 see if you recognize this document
1:22:58yes this is urement statement for
1:23:00Barrett bware all right your honor this
1:23:02time I would offer States 318 into
1:23:04evidence no additional objection admit
1:23:07it all right we'll put it up on screen
1:23:10if you have problems seeing just let me
1:23:11know and I'll bring it back to you
1:23:13okay all right again this is the
1:23:15dispersement statement for this
1:23:17particular case that's correct and who's
1:23:19the uh the first name of the client
1:23:21please Barrett all right and looking
1:23:24here here on this particular one we have
1:23:27again a recovery and then we have some
1:23:29expenses and then ultimately we have
1:23:30this right here is that correct that's
1:23:32correct and uh who is that dispersement
1:23:35what did it say on the dispersement
1:23:36sheet Forge but that's the fake Forge
1:23:39all right and do you see a signature on
1:23:41there I do it's ell Mardo all right and
1:23:44going to the next page you recognize
1:23:46that this is the check payable for
1:23:49$279,800 and I believe 85 or 65 sense
1:23:55all right and do you recognize that
1:23:57signature right there that's ell Mardo
1:23:59and do you recognize this writing right
1:24:01there that is his handwriting all right
1:24:04and did this money go into real Forge or
1:24:06did it go to the fake Forge it went into
1:24:08his fake Forge account all right and did
1:24:10ultimately the law firm have to uh
1:24:12refund this money again we refunded the
1:24:15money each partner put up money and
1:24:17refunded the money to the client and why
1:24:18did the law firm have to refund it
1:24:20because he stole it who stole it elec
1:24:22Murdoch stole it all right
1:24:25I'm going to go to the third page of
1:24:26this exhibit uh do you recognize this
1:24:29particular check right here I do all
1:24:31right and what is that so this is an
1:24:33insurance proceed payment from I believe
1:24:35Southern Fidelity Insurance in the
1:24:37amount of
1:24:38$75,100
1:24:40that check never even came through our
1:24:42books he stole it endorsed it and put it
1:24:45in his Bank of America account and we
1:24:47found a copy of it on his desk later as
1:24:50we were investigating right did the law
1:24:52firm ultimately have to replace that
1:24:53money we replace that money as
1:25:17well real quick
1:25:30show you what's
1:25:34uh been I believe admitted in evidence
1:25:36of States
1:25:38429 okay this is dispersement sheet for
1:25:42herburger all right and uh on that
1:25:45particular one uh let me first of all
1:25:48I'm going to put it up on the screen and
1:25:49again uh if you can see it if you have
1:25:51if I need to bring it back to me uh to
1:25:52you let me know okay
1:25:57okay all right I'm going to go over to
1:26:00the third page of this
1:26:04exhibit and this is a a dis a
1:26:07dispersement sheet in this matter is
1:26:08that correct that's correct all right
1:26:10and we look on this third line and what
1:26:12does it say right there the pmpd
1:26:16attorney fee Forge all right what's the
1:26:18amount
1:26:19$833
1:26:2133.33 and that's the one we discussed
1:26:23earlier there that's one the one that
1:26:25first came to your attention yes all
1:26:29right ultimately go over to this next
1:26:32check do you recognize that it's the
1:26:34corresponding check for the payment to
1:26:35forge for $833
1:26:3833.33 do you recognize that signature
1:26:41elec Mardo all right and you recognize
1:26:44that writing right there on the
1:26:44endorsement Alec Mardo all right and
1:26:47this is a check that you thought had
1:26:48gone to a legitimate structure correct
1:26:51where did it actually go it went to his
1:26:53fake 4 count the one in his personal
1:27:06name I'm going to show you the second
1:27:08part page of this exhibit you recognize
1:27:10this check I do all right and tell me
1:27:12what this check is this is another check
1:27:14payable to forge for $
1:27:1691,8
1:27:196750 for the settlement proceeds due to
1:27:22the estate of Jacob herburger
1:27:24all right and just going back real quick
1:27:27the first amount of uh 83,000 and change
1:27:30those were actually represented what
1:27:33those our fees that would be payable to
1:27:35the law firm okay and then this this
1:27:38money right here though that represented
1:27:39what client money client settlement
1:27:42money and did it go where did it go it
1:27:44went to the fake Forge account and Alex
1:27:46name all right and did the law fir
1:27:49ultimately have to repay that money we
1:27:50repaid that as well so we got two
1:27:52transactions in this particular one we
1:27:54got the 833 and then we have the 91,000
1:27:57is that correct and I had to correct
1:27:59myself on that one we're still in the
1:28:00process of paying that one right and
1:28:02what's the date on that particular one
1:28:04December 15
1:28:072020 and then the date on May 12th 2021
1:28:12all right and that's roughly around the
1:28:13time that that came to your attention as
1:28:14you previously testified yes
1:28:51show you what's from Mar 6es 3:19 take a
1:28:54look at
1:28:59it this is the dispersement sheet for
1:29:02blond Gary all right I'm going go put it
1:29:05on the screen again if you need me to
1:29:07bring it to to you let me
1:29:12know and at this time your honor I'd
1:29:14offer 319 in evidence no additional
1:29:17objection admit it all right looking at
1:29:20this we have uh what's the first name of
1:29:23the client here Angel all right and
1:29:26looking down we have a recovery amount
1:29:28and then what's this third line right
1:29:30there Forge structure and the amount of
1:29:32$112,500 all right and going to the next
1:29:38page what do we see this is the check
1:29:41payable to forge in the amount of
1:29:43$112,500 all right and did that go to
1:29:47the real Forge or the fake Forge it went
1:29:48to the fake Forge and El Murdock's name
1:29:51all right and whose signature is that
1:29:53ell Murdock going back to the original
1:29:55page whose signature is that again ell
1:29:57Murdock what's the
1:30:00uh the date on that I don't know if you
1:30:02can see it or not it looks like
1:30:064919
1:30:09okay did y'all have to repay that money
1:30:12we also repay that money all right why
1:30:14did you have to pay repay that money
1:30:15because it was due to the client and ell
1:30:17Murdoch stole it
1:30:46I'm going show you what's been marked as
1:30:48States 320 see if you recognize this
1:30:52document this is the dispersement sheet
1:30:55on Christopher Anderson all right your
1:30:59honor this time I'd offer States 320 in
1:31:01evidence no additional objection you
1:31:04admit
1:31:06it all right again we have the
1:31:09dispersement sheet is that correct we
1:31:11do all right and then we have a recovery
1:31:15is that correct yes of
1:31:17750,000 and then how much on this
1:31:19dispersement sheet was written to forge
1:31:22750,000 every every every bit of it yes
1:31:25and whose signature is that ell
1:31:28mardock second page a check payable to
1:31:32forge for
1:31:33$750,000 what's the uh date on it
1:31:36February 20th 2020 did this go to the
1:31:39real Forge or the fake Forge it went to
1:31:40his fake Forge personal
1:31:44account in this particular case were
1:31:46there multiple recoveries there were
1:31:48multiple recoveries in this one right so
1:31:50some of the money did some of the money
1:31:52actually go to the client back in the
1:31:54back when all of this happened some of
1:31:55the money did go to the client and when
1:31:57meeting with the client to go over this
1:31:59he told me that he was unaware of the
1:32:01second settlement right and how much of
1:32:04the second settlement did Alec Murdoch
1:32:08take the the 100% of it the entire
1:32:15750,000 what's the date on
1:32:18that February 20
1:32:222020 do you recognize that signature
1:32:24right there that's Alex
1:33:22I'm going to show you what's been marked
1:33:23as States 321 so you can recognize this
1:33:26document this is a dispersement stat to
1:33:30statement excuse me to Dion Martin all
1:33:33right your honor this time the state
1:33:35would offer States 321 in evidence no
1:33:38additional objection admitt
1:33:43it all right uh looking at this
1:33:46particular one what's the first name of
1:33:48the client here Dion all right and
1:33:51couple things first thing I want to ask
1:33:53about is is we have uh right here um
1:33:57what's that third line right there what
1:33:58does that say says structured for an
1:34:00nudity directly to Michael gun in The
1:34:03The J Who Michael gun is he is the owner
1:34:07of the rail Forge Consulting that would
1:34:09do structured annuities was for that was
1:34:12there any actual structured annuity
1:34:14directly to M Michael gun we were able
1:34:16to verify later that there was no
1:34:18structured annuity to Michael gun all
1:34:20right and what was the effect of having
1:34:23that line in this dispersement sheet
1:34:25when it was repaired by the defendant
1:34:26and his staff you can see a line where
1:34:29the payment is says settlement proceeds
1:34:31structur annuity 500 out so basically
1:34:35what he did here was create a fake fee
1:34:39or a fake recovery that he took a 40%
1:34:41fee on
1:34:43$200,000 that $200,000 should have been
1:34:46the client's money but he faked a fee
1:34:49it's just Phantom money so by putting
1:34:52this line in here right here
1:34:54with that fake annuity then 40% of that
1:34:56would be it was counted in as fees under
1:34:59his column and and our system all right
1:35:02and so just by that paperwork poof you
1:35:04have Phantom money Phantom
1:35:10money did y'all ultimately have to
1:35:12account for that we did with the client
1:35:14we
1:35:18did all right down here at the bottom
1:35:20you recognize that signature Alec Mardo
1:35:22you see the date 820
1:35:252015 all right and
1:35:29then moving on to the next
1:35:34page and uh you previously uh testified
1:35:37that there could be multiple uh
1:35:38dispersements in the case is that
1:35:40correct that's correct and is this one
1:35:42such case
1:35:43yes all right um right here I'm looking
1:35:47at the second dispersement and down at
1:35:49the bottom can you tell me the date on
1:35:51this October 6th 20 5 all right and down
1:35:55at the bottom right here what does that
1:35:57say dispersement to Forge
1:36:01$338,000 3 38,5
1:36:056.14 did that go to the real Forge or
1:36:07the fake Forge went to the fake
1:36:15Forge looking at the next page you
1:36:17recognize that that's the check payable
1:36:20to the fake Forge in the amount of
1:36:22338,000
1:36:24$564 signed by ell Murdoch all
1:36:28right did y'all ultimately have to pay
1:36:30that back to the client we did we paid
1:36:32that and the $200,000 back and why' you
1:36:35have to do that because ell is strolling
1:36:37it going to the next page we have
1:36:39another dispersement in this case is
1:36:41that correct yes all right and uh what
1:36:45does this line say right there structure
1:36:48to forge marked through
1:36:51$445,000 where did that $45,000 go it
1:36:54went to the fake Forge account Nell
1:36:56Murdoch's name all
1:37:00right going forward we see this check
1:37:03you recognize that that's the check
1:37:05payable to forge in the amount of
1:37:07$445,000 all right you recognize that
1:37:09signature it's Al
1:37:11Muro recognize that writing right there
1:37:13Al Muro and where did that money go to
1:37:16the fake Forge count and his Bank of
1:37:19America Richard Alexander Murdoch name
1:37:22so we had we had three things here we
1:37:24had the Phantom fee correct correct we
1:37:26had the 338,000 in change correct we had
1:37:29the 45,000 correct and did J off them
1:37:31have to pay all that back we paid every
1:37:33cent of it back the attorney's put it in
1:37:35because ellex stole it
1:38:02show you States
1:38:033:15 see if you recognize
1:38:09this this is another dispersement for
1:38:12Elise mallerie your honor at this time
1:38:14I'd offer States 3:15 in evidence no
1:38:17additional objection submitted
1:38:25all right who's the client's uh name on
1:38:27this one just the first name please
1:38:29Elise all right and this particular
1:38:31What's the total recovery amount
1:38:38$183,500 but again that's reduced and
1:38:41I'm able to tell that because it's not a
1:38:43third or either 40% but that $30,000
1:38:46ultimately was cut to the firm It
1:38:48ultimately was cut to the pmpd and who
1:38:50was it credited to on Whose books El
1:38:52murdocks all right and then what's
1:38:54what's there's some fees for about 600
1:38:56and change correct yes
1:38:58expenses excuse me expenses and uh so
1:39:02what's the remainder the remainder is
1:39:04$152,800
1:39:26you see the date on that I I can't
1:39:28really see
1:39:30that I'm going to hand you back uh
1:39:33States 314 which is the spreadsheet you
1:39:35prepared is that correct yes look it
1:39:38down at the bottom can you remind the
1:39:39jury what the date is of that particular
1:39:41uh check it was November 30th 2020
1:39:44November 30th 2020
1:39:50okay did any of the recovery in this
1:39:53case actually go to the client and that
1:39:55one none of it went to the
1:39:59client it either went
1:40:02to Alex fees or it went to where to his
1:40:06fake Forge account that was doing
1:40:08business as Bank of doing business as
1:40:10forg the fake account with Bank of
1:40:12America did you ever was there any
1:40:15conversation with Alec about this cases
1:40:17related to those fees there was um later
1:40:20in the summer of 2021 his secretary
1:40:23called called over to accounting and
1:40:24said that he wanted to disperse some
1:40:26money to Elise mallerie and at that
1:40:28point we informed that the money had
1:40:30already been
1:40:31dispersed so then ellex said that he
1:40:34wanted to give a portion of his fee back
1:40:36to the client because she was just a
1:40:38sweet lady that he felt she needed some
1:40:41funds given back to her he'd like to do
1:40:43her favor about the $30,000 in fees yes
1:40:47was that
1:40:49after all of that
1:40:51$152,000 the bulk of that recovery for
1:40:55that case had been instead dispersed to
1:40:57the fake Forge account
1:41:02yes do you all have to account for that
1:41:04and pay the client back we did and why
1:41:06was that because he stole the
1:41:10money going to 322
1:41:39show what's been marked in States
1:41:42322 see if you recognize
1:41:47this yes it's another dispersement that
1:41:50has actually several parts but it's
1:41:52Jamie and richer
1:41:56okay your honor this time I offer States
1:41:58322 in aidence uh no additional
1:42:01objection admit
1:42:04it all right what's the first name on
1:42:06the uh jamen all right and looking at
1:42:10this uh particular dispersement sheet uh
1:42:13what is uh this amount right there
1:42:16$90,000 and what's it made payable to on
1:42:18the dispersement sheet Forge uh we see a
1:42:21a signature right there looks a little
1:42:22different as do you recognize that
1:42:23signature at all I still believe it's
1:42:25Alex okay and going to the uh next page
1:42:29what is that this is the check payable
1:42:31to forge in the amount of $90,000 and
1:42:33what's the date on it it cleared on 9116
1:42:36It Was Written sometime in August of
1:42:392016 where did that check go it went to
1:42:41the fake Forge account with Bank of
1:42:43America that is in his personal name
1:42:54going to this page of the exhibit do you
1:42:56recognize that yes I do and tell me what
1:42:59this is very quickly these were some of
1:43:01those client case expenses that we would
1:43:03collect normally and what you're seeing
1:43:06here is some cost for um employee travel
1:43:09on the first line but then cost paid to
1:43:12Austin Aviation for some airline
1:43:14services and then some Mills and travel
1:43:17within New York we have uh Austin
1:43:20Aviation is that like a private plane
1:43:22that is private plane and limousine
1:43:24service that's a a private limousine
1:43:28yeah all right did y'all ultimately
1:43:30refund these this money to the client we
1:43:32did why was that we discovered that
1:43:34those were after the the close of the
1:43:36case and there was no way that they
1:43:38could have been
1:43:39done they had been buil to the client
1:43:41they had been buil to the client
1:43:42deducted from the client's dispersement
1:43:44so we reimbursed those as well when we
1:43:46were giving our clients the money back
1:44:22show you what's been mark States 323 to
1:44:24your uh testimony see if you recognize
1:44:29that this is dispersement for Johnny
1:44:32Bush okay you're honor this time at
1:44:35offer States 323 in evidence no add
1:44:38objection it all right very
1:44:43quickly Johnny Johnny all right down
1:44:48here we've got what does that line say
1:44:50Forge
1:44:51$95,000 where did did that money go to
1:44:54the fake Forge account that Alec held
1:44:56all right is that the check
1:44:59corresponding check for the $90,000 with
1:45:02Alex
1:45:03signature all
1:45:14right and uh did y'all have to pay that
1:45:17money back we did and why did you have
1:45:19to pay that money back because Alex
1:45:20stole it as well
1:45:49show you States 324 see if you recognize
1:45:51that
1:45:57yes this is a dispersement to Jordan
1:46:00jinx this time an offer States 324 and
1:46:03nothing no additional objection admit
1:46:07it all
1:46:11right right here uh looking at this
1:46:13particular one who's the uh first name
1:46:16of the client Jordan right here on this
1:46:19dispersement what do we have right there
1:46:21a payment of Forge in the amount of
1:46:24$85,000
1:46:26okay and whose signature down at the
1:46:28bottom Alec Murdock what's the date
1:46:31August 1st
1:46:352018 looking at the second page what is
1:46:37this right here the check for to payable
1:46:40to forge for the
1:46:42$80,000 all right and where did that
1:46:44money go to the fake Forge account you
1:46:47recognize that
1:46:48signature that's Alex signature as well
1:46:51all right looking over the next next
1:46:53page what is this this is a second
1:46:55dispersement with another check payable
1:46:57to forge in the amount of
1:46:59$65,000 all right you recognize that
1:47:01signature ell
1:47:02Murdock all right and what's the next
1:47:04page a check payable to Ford in the
1:47:06amount of
1:47:07$65,000 with ell Murdoch signature all
1:47:10right and what date did that clear
1:47:13October 4th
1:47:162018 all
1:47:18right um this $85,000 where did that go
1:47:23to the fake Forge the $65,000 where did
1:47:26that go to the fake Forge count did your
1:47:28Law Firm have to account for that money
1:47:30we accounted for it and reimbursed the
1:47:32client due to the fact that El had
1:47:34stolen it
1:48:17show you what's been marked that states
1:48:18325 your testimony and see if you
1:48:20recognize this
1:48:25this is another dispersement for Manuel
1:48:28christiani all right your honor this
1:48:30time i' off for States
1:48:32325 no additional objection your submit
1:48:38it all right first name
1:48:41Manuel what does this say right here
1:48:43Forge
1:48:46$70,000 going over to the next page you
1:48:48recognize that that's the check payable
1:48:50to forge for $70,000 sign by Al Murdoch
1:48:54what's the day did it clear your trust
1:48:56August 16th
1:48:572016 where did this money go went to his
1:49:00fake Forge count did you have to account
1:49:02for this money we did right and why' you
1:49:04have to account for it this money was
1:49:06stolen this money still um has not been
1:49:09paid back it's under a court order to be
1:49:11paid in the court because there's some
1:49:13dispute about who it belongs to but
1:49:15ultimately But ultimately we funded it
1:49:18and it's paid into the court so it came
1:49:20out of our pockets again
1:49:45Tre you what's been Mark States 326 to
1:49:48your testimony and see if you recognize
1:49:49this
1:49:54this is another dispersement for Mary
1:49:56Duncan your honor at this time it offer
1:49:58States
1:50:00326 no other no additional objection
1:50:03admitt
1:50:05it all right
1:50:08uh first name of the client
1:50:11Mary looking down here uh what is that
1:50:14line right there settlement proceeds to
1:50:16forg in the amount of $19,500
1:50:20right see the date October 3rd 2018 do
1:50:25you recognize that at all El
1:50:27Murdo that's the signature you mean yes
1:50:30all right uh what's this right here on
1:50:32the second page this is the check
1:50:34payable to forge for $199,500
1:50:36referencing Mary Duncan settlement
1:50:38proceeds and what day did that clear
1:50:41October 22nd 2018 and how
1:50:45much $9,500 all right where did this
1:50:49money go to the fake Forge count did
1:50:51your Law Firm have to account for that
1:50:53we did and we reimbursed the client for
1:50:55that why' you have to do that because
1:50:57Alex stole it
1:51:26sh West been Markus States 327 see if
1:51:29you recognize
1:51:34this this is a dispersement sheet for
1:51:37Randy
1:51:39dry all
1:51:42right this time it all for States 327 in
1:51:44evidence no additional objection let's
1:51:47admit
1:51:49it all right uh dispersement sheet what
1:51:52line do we have right here Forge
1:52:04$956,000
1:52:07and what's the date on it it is dated
1:52:10October 3rd
1:52:122017 you recognize that signature elec
1:52:15Murdoch signature all right did your uh
1:52:18Law Firm ultimately have to account for
1:52:20those funds we did and we reimburse the
1:52:22client that money as well because it was
1:52:23stolen funds again and what uh where did
1:52:26these funds actually go to they went to
1:52:27the fank forge account that was under
1:52:29his
1:52:45control all right I'm going to show you
1:52:47what's been marked as stat 328 and see
1:52:49if you recognize this
1:52:54this is a dispersement for Thomas Moore
1:52:57your honor this time I'd offer State 328
1:53:00and evidence no additional objection
1:53:03admitt
1:53:07it all right right here on the
1:53:10dispersement what's the
1:53:12name first name Thomas all right and
1:53:16what does the dispersement say Forge
1:53:20$125,000 right down here you Rec has
1:53:22that signature it's ell Murdo on the
1:53:25left whose handwriting does that look
1:53:26like to you it looks like ell Murdo as
1:53:29well Tommy Moore confirmed with us that
1:53:31he did not sign that dispersement going
1:53:34to the second page uh what is this this
1:53:36is the check payable to forge in the
1:53:38amount of
1:53:39$125,000 do that go to the real Forge or
1:53:41the fake Forge fake
1:53:43Forge all right and uh who's writing is
1:53:46that right there on the endorsement
1:53:47that's El Murdock who signature on the
1:53:49check elec Murdock
1:53:53did y'all have to uh account for that
1:53:56money with the client we did we
1:53:57reimbursed him as well and why did you
1:53:59have to account for that because it had
1:54:00been stolen by
1:54:02Ellie the ones that you've been
1:54:04describing this was
1:54:06after you started to pull the
1:54:09thread and all of that started to
1:54:11unravel is that correct that's
1:54:13right
1:54:15was the quote fake for Forge as you call
1:54:18it was that the
1:54:20only thing that you detected is you
1:54:22started to review the activities of elec
1:54:25Murdoch while he was a partner in the
1:54:26law firm no I'm going to show you uh
1:54:29what's been marked as exhibit 329 to
1:54:32your testimony and just quickly tell me
1:54:33if you recognize that and what it is I
1:54:35do recognize this this is a list of
1:54:38payments that were stolen by being paid
1:54:41to pet State Bank all right hold on for
1:54:43me real quick
1:55:15all right going back to uh States
1:55:193:29 um again did you prepare the
1:55:22spreadsheet I did and is this based on
1:55:25your role as the CFO and going back and
1:55:27reviewing various records and trying to
1:55:28figure this all of this out yes sir all
1:55:31right your honor at this time the state
1:55:32would offer States 329 into
1:55:35evidence no additional objections your
1:55:38honor and subject to the
1:55:40Court's prior limitations on its use
1:55:43it's
1:55:44it all right putting this up on the
1:55:46screen
1:55:53can you see that all right or I need to
1:55:54bring it to yes I can see it all right I
1:55:56see up at the top there's uh some
1:55:58writing on it can you tell the jury what
1:56:00that is real quick that was a mistake
1:56:02when I made up the worksheet that we
1:56:04discovered when I got here those checks
1:56:06were written in the period of 2012
1:56:09instead of the 75 that I had down so we
1:56:12scratched through and I initialed my
1:56:13correction so that's says 20 2012 and
1:56:16then your initials is that right yes and
1:56:18then uh over here what is this right
1:56:20here this the client's name that the
1:56:22money was stolen from all right and then
1:56:25what's that the civil action court
1:56:26number all right and then the category
1:56:30the method that he used to get away with
1:56:33this and in this payment was payment of
1:56:35state bank checks and then this line
1:56:37right there the date that we put money
1:56:39back into our trust account to be able
1:56:41to refund the clients and then finally
1:56:44uh the amount
1:56:472,798
1:56:5012654 is this
1:56:52include what was in we've already gone
1:56:55through in stage 314 the other
1:56:57spreadsheet or is this different money
1:56:59it's additional
1:57:07money States
1:57:11314 what was the amount the total amount
1:57:142,
1:57:1784152
1:57:1855 and then the new one we're about to
1:57:21talk about two ,
1:57:2379,81
1:57:28654 now you mentioned uh Pala State Bank
1:57:32uh this is not the fake Forge is that
1:57:33correct that's correct all right tell me
1:57:36just generally what you uncovered and
1:57:39how funds were allegedly misappropriated
1:57:42through this method by the
1:57:44defendant um P meta State
1:57:47Bank was the pr on some of these funds
1:57:51and there was lines on these
1:57:53dispersements to be paid to paleta State
1:57:56Bank on the surface they looked okay
1:57:59when I called and asked the bank to give
1:58:01me information backing up the checks
1:58:03what had happened to them once they were
1:58:05written to the bank we discovered that
1:58:07the money had been used for paying
1:58:09things on elex behalf like loan payments
1:58:12equipment purchases paying back loans to
1:58:16people he had borrowed money from and
1:58:19everything was for his use
1:58:22and then looking at that was there a
1:58:24individ an official at the bank who was
1:58:27assisting uh El Murdoch with these
1:58:29transactions Russell lefit was the one
1:58:31helping convert those funds and is
1:58:34Russell lefit any relation to you
1:58:35Russell leit is my brother-in-law he's
1:58:37married to my sister's husband
1:59:00stage 330 home stretch stage 330 to uh
1:59:04to this trial and see if you recognize
1:59:06that document this is the Badger
1:59:08dispersement all right your honor this
1:59:11time I'd offer States 330 in evidence no
1:59:14additional objection
1:59:31all right how much were the attorney's
1:59:32fees on this particular case
1:59:35$1,240
1:59:36th000 that's how much the attorney fees
1:59:39were that's the attorney fees all right
1:59:40and then if we scroll down this
1:59:42dispersement we have what's this number
1:59:45right here 1 mil
1:59:48$325,000 and that pursuant to this
1:59:50dispersement was supposed to be made out
1:59:52to who Pata State Bank right and that's
1:59:55completely separate from these
1:59:57attorney's fees in this case is that
1:59:58correct that's correct it's an addition
2:00:00did those attorney fees actually get
2:00:02paid into the firm account those did yes
2:00:05and and those were legitimate correct
2:00:07those were legitimate and they were
2:00:08credited to who ell Murdock and that's
2:00:10completely
2:00:12separate from this additional $ 1,
2:00:15325,000 below that is that correct
2:00:18that's correct all right and what
2:00:20happened to that 1,325
2:00:23that 1, 325,000 ended up being converted
2:00:26into um payments on his behalf through
2:00:29the
2:00:33bank all right can you tell me the date
2:00:35on
2:00:36that November 19th
2:00:422012
2:00:44now this particular uh amount right here
2:00:47well let me go
2:00:57I'm going to show you the page three of
2:00:58this
2:01:04exhibit and is this an email that you
2:01:07found in the records of your Law Firm we
2:01:09did all right and who is this email from
2:01:11and who's it to the email is from
2:01:13Russell Le to elec Murdoch all right and
2:01:17what does it say right there it says ell
2:01:19can you get jeie to recut check 43162
2:01:23dated 111 1912 as follows and then it
2:01:26lists four different amounts and it says
2:01:28thanks Russell all right and then below
2:01:31that the next page is this another email
2:01:33that was found uh in the records of uh
2:01:36your Law Firm it is and what's the date
2:01:38on this
2:01:39email February 6
2:01:422013 all right and uh please uh who's
2:01:45the email from so this email is from ell
2:01:48Murdoch to Russell a fe all right and
2:01:51tell the jury what it says it gives an
2:01:53amount of
2:01:59$388,500 loone 75k and whatever the
2:02:04balance would be on the
2:02:06$1,325 th000 after these deductions and
2:02:10again remind the jury what the uh amount
2:02:12that was written to PSB in 1, 325,000 is
2:02:17that in that email the last line ask
2:02:20elec ask Russell to email me and request
2:02:24that right did that actually happen yes
2:02:27and so had had uh your staff already cut
2:02:29this check based on the dispersement for
2:02:31$1,325 th000 yes and based on this email
2:02:34chain did you ultimately recut checks
2:02:37made out to paleta State Bank yes sir
2:02:39and the amounts requested in the amounts
2:02:41requested and those funds what happened
2:02:43to them they were um used to pay
2:02:46personal loan payments on elex's behalf
2:02:48so again the funds that he stole and
2:02:50paid obligations that he haded did you
2:02:52have to account to the client for this
2:02:54amount right here we did and you had to
2:02:56do that because they were
2:02:57misappropriated by the defendant that's
2:02:59right all right looking through these
2:03:01checks are these the checks that were
2:03:02recut by your staff after the request by
2:03:04Alec yes to Russell and from Russell to
2:03:07you
2:03:12correct and incidentally in this one we
2:03:15also reimburse the client the pr fee
2:03:18because the pr had not done their job so
2:03:20we made sure that we reimburse the
2:03:22client for that as well who was the pr
2:03:24Rosell
2:03:28Le and I'm just slowly moving through
2:03:30this uh exhibit but these the various
2:03:32checks and how they ultimately were
2:03:34converted that's the information that I
2:03:35got back from paleta State Bank showing
2:03:37how they were converted
2:03:56I'm looking at this check right here
2:03:58which is
2:03:59the fifth page of the exhibit can you
2:04:02see the date on that February 88th
2:04:172013 going to this check right here
2:04:19what's the date on that September 1 13
2:04:372013 all right
2:05:21show you this real quick States uh 331
2:05:25see if you recognize
2:05:30this this is um the correcting
2:05:34dispersement for Arthur Badger that we
2:05:36reconstructed and that uh that goes with
2:05:39the prior exhibit is that correct yes
2:05:41this time on off State
2:05:43331 no additional
2:05:45objection let admit
2:05:49it and this just again reflects what you
2:05:52were just talking about and the
2:05:53repayments of those monies is that
2:05:54correct that's correct where previously
2:05:57it had the
2:05:5835,000 and so our total repayment to the
2:06:01client was 1, 360,000 which is the 35
2:06:05and the
2:06:071325 and the 35 is the uh PR fee yes
2:06:28show you States 332
2:06:54and 334 we'll show you 334 first and see
2:06:58if you recognize this
2:07:01document this is a dispersement to
2:07:05Natasha
2:07:06Thomas all right your honor this time
2:07:08I'd offer States 334 in evidence no
2:07:10additional
2:07:12objection thank you your honor and while
2:07:14I'm here uh States
2:07:16332 this is the correcting dispersement
2:07:19that we drafted to return the money to
2:07:22Natasha Thomas your honored offer States
2:07:24332 on that no additional objection ADM
2:07:40it all
2:07:44right looking at this particular dis uh
2:07:47dispersement again what's the first name
2:07:49of the client Natasha all right and we
2:07:52have various recovery amounts here is
2:07:53that correct that's correct uh we have
2:07:56the actual uh legal fees received in
2:07:59this case correct yes and who who were
2:08:01they who were those actually credited to
2:08:03well 800 of that is to elec Murdoch and
2:08:07then the other portion of the fee was
2:08:09the $115,000 fee payable to Russell the
2:08:11fee as conservator for this
2:08:14case and those those fees were actually
2:08:16accredited to who to Alec
2:08:19Murdoch and on top of that go down to
2:08:22the bottom and we have this last line
2:08:23what's that right there Natasha Thomas
2:08:26Peta state bank
2:08:29$325,000 that
2:08:30$325,000 where did it go it went to pet
2:08:33State Bank and was converted into funds
2:08:35for personal use again paying loans
2:08:38buying equipment Etc personal expense
2:08:41for who for ell mardock did y'all
2:08:43ultimately have to account to the client
2:08:45for that money we did and why did you
2:08:47have to do that IEX stall that money
2:08:52you recognize that signature right there
2:08:53yes that's Russell of
2:08:56Fates what is that check right there do
2:08:58you recognize that this is the check
2:09:00that we wrote to Peta State Bank and
2:09:03what's the date on that 1220
2:09:142011 and hold on real quick I'm going to
2:09:17go
2:09:19back just to make sure States 330 this
2:09:23was Arthur that's the case you just
2:09:24talked about a little bit ago that's
2:09:26correct the one with the uh 1325 million
2:09:30that's correct and on this dispersement
2:09:31sheet what was the
2:09:33date November 19th 2012 all right back
2:09:38to Natasha
2:10:03now you mentioned it was often uh common
2:10:05for uh Monies to be held back for leans
2:10:08is that right that's right and
2:10:10ultimately the the idea is to settle
2:10:12those leans like with a hospital or
2:10:14something like that or Medicaid and then
2:10:17uh and then ultimately P the client uh
2:10:19any um excess that you were able to
2:10:21settle underneath is that cor correct
2:10:23that's right all right in this case were
2:10:25certain monies held back for Lans there
2:10:28was money held back yes
2:10:34okay and ultimately was there an amount
2:10:36that was
2:10:37paid uh on those L and in particular I'm
2:10:41showing you this line right here that
2:10:42says ACA recoveries yes there was all
2:10:46right
2:11:06after uh we're looking at that
2:11:08particular line how much was that amount
2:11:13$10,995
2:11:15127 and uh was ultimately uh Medicaid
2:11:18paid back some amount of money yes is it
2:11:21less than their actual Bill yes and so
2:11:24that meant that there was some money
2:11:25left over that should have gone to the
2:11:27client is that correct correct did that
2:11:28money actually go to the client no it
2:11:30did not all right I'm going to flip
2:11:32towards the end of this
2:11:42exhibit and show you this check it's
2:11:44actually the last page of the exhibit do
2:11:46you recognize that yes that's the that's
2:11:48the remaining funds that should have
2:11:50been paid to Natasha after solving that
2:11:53lean settling that leane and it was in
2:11:55the amount of
2:11:58$2,245 8 C and can you see the date on
2:12:01that or see when it
2:12:03cleared looks like it looks like it was
2:12:05dated maybe 613 2012 or either 8 pardon
2:12:10my eyes and it cleared the bank on 829
2:12:142012 right you recognize the signature
2:12:16on that check ell Murdock all right and
2:12:19uh where did those funds
2:12:21those went again were converted at Peta
2:12:24State Bank into things that benefited
2:12:27him personally such as loan payoffs
2:12:30money to them okay did you ultimately
2:12:33have to account to the client for that
2:12:34money we did and why' you have to do
2:12:37that because elec Murdoch stole it and
2:12:40looking through these uh documents that
2:12:42are attached here what what are these
2:12:44documents as I slowly flip through them
2:12:46that's where the money went so there was
2:12:48payments made to Mr Charlie lefit there
2:12:50were boat payments
2:12:53paid there was payments back to a loan
2:12:56from a
2:12:57conservatorship is that a different case
2:12:59that the firm had that is and who was a
2:13:01conservator on that case Russell Le and
2:13:04what's the name of that particular
2:13:05client pler and there were well there
2:13:08were loans made from that Yes Loans to
2:13:12who there were loans made from that to
2:13:14Russell Le and El
2:13:17Murdoch so money from this was used to
2:13:19pay back some of that money yes
2:13:32sir who signature is that on this
2:13:35particular check uh number
2:13:3729721 that's Russell Le
2:13:41Fates and who is that cashier check made
2:13:44out to Randolph Murdoch III
2:13:53who was that cashier's check made out to
2:13:55this is made out to um AR lefy as
2:13:58conservator for Malik Williams who's
2:14:01Malik Williams Malik Williams was
2:14:03another client that Russell was a
2:14:05conservator for that Russell loaned
2:14:07money to elic out of that
2:14:09conservatorship and this is a payment
2:14:10back on that conservatorship loan when
2:14:13you say conservatorship Russell was put
2:14:15in charge of of dealing with uh C money
2:14:19on their behalf yes
2:14:21and he was loaning money to himself and
2:14:23to
2:14:24Alec he did out of pler I'm not sure
2:14:26about Malik Williams but he loaned elec
2:14:28money out of M Lake
2:14:34waves and then money from some of these
2:14:37misappropriations you've identified was
2:14:39used to pay those loans back from the
2:14:40conservator ship correct
2:14:51all
2:15:12right show you stage
2:15:18333 you recognize this
2:15:21this is a dispersement for Russell le as
2:15:24conservator for Hakeem pikney right your
2:15:28honor this time at offer States 333 in
2:15:31a no additional objection you
2:15:37admitted all right a little bit ago we
2:15:39were looking at case of Natasha Thomas
2:15:41is this case related to that one yes are
2:15:44they they're both in the same accident
2:15:46all right and um I'm going to show you
2:15:49uh the dispers sheet on this particular
2:15:52one and again we have a recovery here is
2:15:54that correct yes and right here we have
2:15:57legal fees is that correct correct and
2:16:00how much were the legal fees for this
2:16:03particular one for this one there was
2:16:06$4,980 that would have been credited at
2:16:08El that were payable to pmpd and we also
2:16:12paid Russell the fee a $60,000
2:16:14conservator fee so out of this
2:16:17particular one there were legit fees
2:16:18earned by of of how much again almost
2:16:21$4.1 million
2:16:24$498,000 and credited to who ell
2:16:30Murdoch on top of that though we scroll
2:16:33down and we have this entry right here
2:16:35what does that say Peta State Bank
2:16:38$39,586
2:16:4146 all right where did that money go
2:16:44again that went payable to palmeta State
2:16:46Bank and it was used with the other
2:16:49money from Natasha Thomas to pay off
2:16:51loans and for conservatorships and loans
2:16:55that he had made personally so for ellex
2:16:57personal benefit all right and right
2:17:00there do you recognize those signatures
2:17:02yes I do whose signature is that Russell
2:17:05Le whose signature is that El
2:17:08Murdoch right here what is this the
2:17:10third page of the exhibit this is the
2:17:12check payable to Peta State Bank for
2:17:169,581 46 on the behalf of AEM pikney
2:17:20settlement and did you have to account
2:17:22for that with the client we did and why
2:17:24did you have to do that because ellex
2:17:26stole that money as
2:17:28well as we go through this exhibit are
2:17:30these some of the various documents yes
2:17:33tell tell the court and the jury what
2:17:35these are please uh that would be a loan
2:17:37payment on a boat loan that elec held
2:17:39personally with the
2:17:42bank again another loan payment for that
2:17:45same Murdoch Charter Bank
2:17:47Loan uh check payable back to Mr Charles
2:17:51LEF for a personal loan we don't have to
2:17:54go through everyone but that's generally
2:17:55these are the expenditures you've
2:17:56identified as personal for Al
2:18:13yes all right
2:18:34couple more I know we've been going for
2:18:36a long
2:18:37time you had mentioned that uh that one
2:18:41instance in which there was the loan
2:18:43payment that should have gone to Randy
2:18:44Murdoch that instead went to the
2:18:45defendant correct that's right and
2:18:47ultimately that happened twice and or
2:18:50and then it was detected but he paid it
2:18:51back is that right that's right and the
2:18:55matter kind of went away is that right
2:18:56that's right were there other instances
2:18:58in which uh El Murdoch used the firm
2:19:01credit card for expenditures that were
2:19:03not business related he did and in those
2:19:05instances what did happen in the
2:19:07instances that he used it for personal
2:19:09we would deduct it from his annual bonus
2:19:12at the end of the year need to pay it
2:19:13back he pay it back and the matter would
2:19:15be forgotten is that correct
2:19:18yes when those things were happening
2:19:22at the law firm were yall aware of all
2:19:24of this
2:19:32no
2:19:41and stand by for me real quick
2:19:45[Music]
2:20:15all right sorry about that just real
2:20:19quick when y'all allowed Al to pay back
2:20:22the money in those sort of smaller
2:20:24instances were you aware of all of this
2:20:25no
2:20:28sir when you or your staff received
2:20:32these dispersement funds from Alec and
2:20:34his staff did they cut them in the
2:20:36manner in which they were instructed yes
2:20:39and why did they do that because they
2:20:41trusted him and in the majority of those
2:20:43instances that involved client money
2:20:45that Alec Muro also received substantial
2:20:48legal fees in each one of those cases
2:20:50yes
2:20:51and in each one of those cases in which
2:20:53that happened at least on the ones we've
2:20:55gone through according to your review
2:20:57did he also uh misappropriate
2:20:59substantial money on top of that yes how
2:21:01long have you known Alec Murdoch since I
2:21:03was 16 so about 50 40 years worked with
2:21:08him closely for how long 22 23 years did
2:21:12you really know Alec Murdoch I don't
2:21:13think I ever really knew them I don't
2:21:15think anybody knows them thank you
2:21:17nothing further
2:21:24so stand for a
2:21:25moment cross examination thank you your
2:21:28honor
2:21:34um your honor could we renew our request
2:21:37for limiting instruction we went a half
2:21:39a day um hearing all these Financial
2:21:42misdeeds and and I'm don't want the jury
2:21:45to be lost on what the purpose is
2:21:52any comment Mr
2:21:56Waters uh ladies and gentlemen I gave
2:21:59this limiting instruction yesterday and
2:22:01I will repeat it that this evidence of
2:22:05these um Financial crimes and other
2:22:08crimes uh that you're now having
2:22:13receiving testimony on
2:22:14it
2:22:16um it's regarding the contention that
2:22:21the defendant was involved in other
2:22:23criminal
2:22:25activity uh that is not evidence or
2:22:28proof uh of the offenses charged in the
2:22:31indictment those charges being for
2:22:34murder two counts and possession of a
2:22:37weapon during the commission of a crime
2:22:39two counts this testimony is being
2:22:42allowed for The Limited purpose and
2:22:45assisting the state improving motive
2:22:50you may not consider it for purposes of
2:22:55character of Mr murall nor may you uh
2:22:58considered as evidence that he has the
2:23:01propensity to commit other crimes or
2:23:05that is more likely that he committed
2:23:07the crimes with which he is currently
2:23:10charged it's being
2:23:12allowed based on the
2:23:14state's
2:23:16representation that it helps explain the
2:23:19defendant's motive
2:23:21for which he is
2:23:23accused and you may
2:23:26proceed thank you your
2:23:29honor good afternoon
2:23:32hi U you have
2:23:35U show you exhibit
2:23:383:14 just put that up you can do it for
2:23:41me
2:23:42Doug this is
2:23:45um a summary
2:23:48of was a a listing
2:23:51of clients of the firm
2:23:54who the law firm had to reimburse
2:23:58because of Alex's misconduct is that
2:24:01correct that's correct okay now you have
2:24:04been the law firm has been working with
2:24:08various law enforcement
2:24:10agencies since September of 2021 I
2:24:14suspect um sharing all of this
2:24:16information yes and and with regard to
2:24:21exhibit 314 it would appear that the law
2:24:25firm just for all of these
2:24:29um um clients have paid out
2:24:33over
2:24:352 $8 million is that right that's right
2:24:39and and in a real way the law firm is a
2:24:43victim of of this conduct correct and um
2:24:49and as
2:24:51and and for each one of these client
2:24:55transactions that the law firm had had
2:24:58to
2:24:59repay mean you're you're aware that Alec
2:25:03has pending criminal charges for every
2:25:05single one of them I'm aware of that
2:25:07okay and the same with the paleta State
2:25:11Bank matters that that you talked about
2:25:15correct he has pending criminal charges
2:25:17for every single one of them yes and and
2:25:20we're not here today to try those
2:25:22charges on the financial crimes we're
2:25:24here you understand you're testifying
2:25:28because he's been charged with the
2:25:29murder of his wife Maggie and his son
2:25:32Paul
2:25:35okay and they were murdered on June 7th
2:25:392021 correct yes
2:25:41sir now some of these it looks like
2:25:46according to um your
2:25:48testimony that
2:25:51this misconduct has been going on since
2:25:54as early as 2011 unfortunately when we
2:25:58found that out right so
2:26:01some 10 years before the murders of
2:26:04Maggie and Paul correct that's correct
2:26:06he managed to fool a lot of people
2:26:08myself included
2:26:11understand and I understand you have the
2:26:13right to be very hurt and angry about
2:26:15that and and are you hurt and angry
2:26:17about that oh yes I take it very person
2:26:20Al haunts me that I let this or that
2:26:24this happened you feel like it happened
2:26:26on your watch and I think anybody feel
2:26:28normal feeling like that a big betrayal
2:26:31of
2:26:32trust and Miss second
2:26:36J when I'm asking you these questions
2:26:39I'm not in any way um diminishing your
2:26:43feelings and your anger um I'm just
2:26:46trying to flush out how these relate to
2:26:50the murder of Maggie and Paul I
2:26:52understand that okay thank
2:26:54you but it would appear that this has
2:26:56been going on for years and years and
2:27:00years unfortunately yes it appears and
2:27:03it has cost a law
2:27:05firm in
2:27:082021 and
2:27:10still you know over four I me five
2:27:14million dollars we paid out that's
2:27:15correct and and when we're talking about
2:27:17the law firm I mean we're really talking
2:27:19about lawyers in The Firm his brother
2:27:22Randy correct that's right um Johnny
2:27:25Parker who's now the firm's named after
2:27:28right Ronnie Crosby right Lee c correct
2:27:31Mark Ball correct and and others that
2:27:34have come out of their pocket to
2:27:36reimburse clients yes they did
2:27:50now the the the
2:27:54forge well let let me let me let me
2:27:57strike
2:27:59that on June
2:28:037th 2021 the day Maggie and Paul were
2:28:09murdered you went to Alex's office
2:28:13sometime in the early afternoon or
2:28:15midafternoon
2:28:16and and to try to get to the bottom of
2:28:20where's the fee that Chris Wilson's
2:28:24office says they wrote to you for the
2:28:27feris case correct right and he looked
2:28:30at you and he said what do you want now
2:28:33right yes he did when I was coming up
2:28:35the steps and you said I wouldn't be
2:28:37doing my job if I wasn't up here asking
2:28:39you about this that's correct and and I
2:28:41think you said he kind of had a angry
2:28:44look ini when I walked up the steps he
2:28:47gave me a very disgusted look said what
2:28:49do you need
2:28:50now but then once you got in his office
2:28:53his demeanor changed and did and he
2:28:55assured you that the the
2:28:58check was the funds were still in Chris
2:29:01Wilson's trust account right he did and
2:29:05um as
2:29:10we and as sort of fast forward and
2:29:14September the 3D I believe it was
2:29:172021 um Annette geswall from your firm
2:29:22found a cancel check written from elec
2:29:25from excuse me Chris Wilson's Law Firm
2:29:27directly to ell Murdoch right yes sir
2:29:33okay and that check wasn't written a
2:29:36Ford's Consulting no it was written to
2:29:38Richard Alexander Murdoch
2:29:40Esquire and of all of these um papers
2:29:45that that you have
2:29:47been have been introduced in part of
2:29:50your
2:29:51investigation that's that's the only
2:29:55time that at least in these documents
2:29:58that that you brought the court where
2:30:00Alec has gotten a check directly
2:30:03personally from another law firm and it
2:30:06didn't go to the to pmed right we
2:30:10discovered during the investigation that
2:30:12there had been another time that that
2:30:13had happened but that was not discovered
2:30:16by myself okay and that was with Chris
2:30:19will firm also yes
2:30:24okay but all of the other stuff that you
2:30:28brought here and talked about since 9:30
2:30:31or so this
2:30:33morning involved this fake Forge account
2:30:36right correct and then there's some
2:30:40stuff
2:30:41involving um Palo State Bank Going Back
2:30:452010 2011 12 13 early on correct
2:30:50um with regard
2:30:53to the
2:30:57um the events of June the 7th when you
2:31:02went and talked to elec and you were
2:31:05asking him about where's the fee money
2:31:08um you had previously spoken to I guess
2:31:13Lee cope or someone in The Firm Lee
2:31:16hope and um and and wasn't the concern
2:31:20at the
2:31:21time that that Alec was trying to
2:31:26Shield income from disclosure in the in
2:31:30the
2:31:32lawsuit that where he was a
2:31:34defendant uh that where he was being
2:31:36sued following the boting crash where
2:31:40mallerie Beach lost her life tragedy yes
2:31:42at that point we thought he was trying
2:31:44to shelter money or move money into his
2:31:46wife's name or reduce his income for the
2:31:49Year by nine claiming tax by not
2:31:51colliding a fe right and it and it
2:31:54really and and one of the reasons you
2:31:56thought that is
2:31:58because you had talked to him about what
2:32:01looked to be an odd way to structure an
2:32:03attorney's fee with the herburger case
2:32:06correct and he explained that he didn't
2:32:09care about the tax consequences he was
2:32:11just trying to get money in the Maggie's
2:32:14name and not his name because of the
2:32:16boating accident that's correct and and
2:32:19that was the
2:32:22the concern and alarm within the firm is
2:32:25that we're not going to participate in
2:32:27any way to Shield High income from civil
2:32:33disclosure in a court proceeding that's
2:32:37correct cuz
2:32:39that goes against the the ethics and
2:32:43standards of the law firm and lawyers in
2:32:45that firm that's correct and no one at
2:32:48the time was thinking that was stealing
2:32:50money from The Firm
2:32:54right I had my suspicions on whether it
2:32:56was really in there but we were not
2:32:59pursuing it as stolen money
2:33:01okay and um and and you had seen that
2:33:05and I think it was May of 2021 or May
2:33:0812th or something um that a dispersement
2:33:11sheet where attorneys fees went to forge
2:33:15on the herburger settlement correct now
2:33:17it's not the first time the lawyer
2:33:20well lawyers in The Firm have previously
2:33:23structured attorney's fees in big
2:33:26settlement cases haven't they once one
2:33:29time and and the way that works
2:33:32is the the money goes from the defendent
2:33:36insurance company or defendant company
2:33:38or
2:33:39or the source of payment it goes not to
2:33:42the fall firm and then to the lawyer it
2:33:45goes to some Financial entity whether
2:33:48it's insurance company or
2:33:50something and then that money is then
2:33:52paid out in annuity over the years to
2:33:55the lawyer that would be the correct way
2:33:57and that's and you delay taxes by not
2:34:00taking the money right correct and
2:34:03that's that's how it was done in the
2:34:04past correct the one time it was done
2:34:07right
2:34:08okay and and your your concern here
2:34:13was that's not how you do it because it
2:34:15looked like the money came into the firm
2:34:17and then it was written out to forge
2:34:20for structure of a payment according to
2:34:23alen correct it would not have been the
2:34:26way it came in it would not have been
2:34:27credited to his account it would have
2:34:29just looked like it was going out as an
2:34:31item so it would not have been accounted
2:34:32for correctly right and he also did not
2:34:36discuss it with anybody in The Firm or
2:34:38have permission to do
2:34:40that and and and the one time that that
2:34:43it happened
2:34:44previously I don't know what the amount
2:34:46of the fee was but but the point of the
2:34:48matter is that never came into the firm
2:34:51but all the partners knew about it you
2:34:53knew about it and you were able
2:34:55to include it in your calculations yes
2:34:59including the 7 and half% that the
2:35:02lawyer is responsible for paying into
2:35:05the I guess to the to the kitty
2:35:08distribution fund or whatever it is yes
2:35:11that's sort of a Le leveling account
2:35:13that helps lawyers who haven't had a
2:35:16good year brings them up and you know
2:35:19just sort of Smooths out kind of Smooths
2:35:21out overhead the different offices
2:35:23having different
2:35:26costume but when when Alec had given you
2:35:29that explanation and you
2:35:32said there's no that's not proper you're
2:35:35going to get taxed and he said that
2:35:38um I don't
2:35:40care you know I'm trying to get money in
2:35:42Maggie's name help Michael gun out I
2:35:46mean
2:35:46that you never talk to Alec about about
2:35:49the herburger fee again did
2:35:53you not to my recollection not since
2:35:56after the murders happen we did not
2:35:58discuss any of
2:36:03that the
2:36:07um and we and and the Chris Wilson issue
2:36:11was there's a settlement in the feris v
2:36:14ma truck case uh the law firm receives
2:36:17an expense check to re The Firm for the
2:36:20expenses but where's the fee where's the
2:36:23fee and that's what started the
2:36:25questions being asked that's right
2:36:27okay and and you went in on June
2:36:327th to ask Alec about
2:36:36that you know you got to show me proof
2:36:39If in his trust account is that right
2:36:41right I had I told him we had reason to
2:36:43believe that he had received the money
2:36:45and I needed to proof that he had not
2:36:48and and and during that meeting he
2:36:51received a
2:36:52call that his father was being put back
2:36:55in the hospital or was in the hospital
2:36:58and was terminal that they
2:37:00had decided that there was nothing else
2:37:03they could do for him and he'd be
2:37:04terminal and you took off your CPA hat
2:37:08and your CFO hat and
2:37:11you befriended him correct because you
2:37:16knew how close he was to his father is
2:37:18that right I do and you know um and this
2:37:22father had was a well-known lawyer and
2:37:27it was a legacy name in that law firm
2:37:30that didn't really mean anything to me
2:37:32i' just known him since I was 15 16
2:37:35years old I didn't think of him in terms
2:37:37of of that I thought of him in terms of
2:37:40a friend and my friend's father right
2:37:43and the Alex was close to his father
2:37:46Yes and his mother as far as I know
2:37:50and his family he he was close to his
2:37:52family as far as I know I had not spent
2:37:54any time with him around his family in
2:37:56over 17 years okay um but but after you
2:38:03learn that his father was going back in
2:38:05the hospital or was in the hospital and
2:38:07was terminal well just fast forward this
2:38:10was the 7th of June correct yeah the
2:38:13Monday the 7th yeah and on the
2:38:1610th uh Mr Murdoch died did he not I
2:38:21believe that was the date yes okay just
2:38:22a few days after this he
2:38:24died of natural causes
2:38:29yes and so when you learned on the 7th
2:38:32that his father was terminal or going
2:38:34back in the
2:38:35hospital um you became his friend and
2:38:39you you didn't continue your
2:38:41inquiry
2:38:43um anym that day cor no because I had
2:38:46told him what I needed and he knew what
2:38:48I was expecting to get back and I was
2:38:50under the impression he was leaving to
2:38:52go care for his father and um in our
2:38:54firm we're very family oriented and
2:38:56anytime there's an emergency or
2:38:58something we need to do we Grant the
2:39:01person the time off and I made the
2:39:03Assumption he was going to go take care
2:39:05of that right and then
2:39:09um then you learn that night that Maggie
2:39:15and Paul were murdered right
2:39:21what was
2:39:24your I think you said um in your
2:39:27testimony that your initial reaction you
2:39:28were scared you were
2:39:31afraid what were you scared
2:39:33of well when this happened there was a
2:39:36lot of rumors rolling around um nothing
2:39:39this violent had ever happened we didn't
2:39:42know who had gone after his family if
2:39:46somebody was going to come after him if
2:39:48somebody was going to come to office and
2:39:50come after him there was just a lot of
2:39:51diss settlement in the office um and
2:39:56constantly having to employees were
2:40:00scared but your mind didn't go
2:40:05to gosh I bet he killed his wife and son
2:40:08because I asked him about the ferris
2:40:10feed right no
2:40:20then after that you you didn't continue
2:40:24investigating the feris fee you you you
2:40:27let Lee cope deal directly with Chris
2:40:30Wilson Lee cope advised me that he would
2:40:32take over
2:40:35okay but the inquiry and the ferris fee
2:40:38didn't stop because Maggie and Paul were
2:40:39murdered did
2:40:41it it did as far as talking to
2:40:45Alec well I mean Alec told you what he
2:40:48told you and then the inquiry was is he
2:40:51telling the truth and let's deal
2:40:53directly with Chris Wilson right
2:40:55correct so the inquiry didn't
2:40:59stop with Maggie and Paul's murder did
2:41:01it it stopped for a period of
2:41:03Time how long couple weeks couple of
2:41:11weeks maybe a
2:41:13month maybe a
2:41:16month the death of his wife and son
2:41:20guiding 30 days reprieve on your
2:41:23investigation into the ferris matter is
2:41:25that is that what happened well it did
2:41:28and then we received a word from Chris
2:41:30at that point we still did not receive
2:41:32the documentation so it did delay
2:41:34receiving the
2:41:38documentation now let's be
2:41:41clear when you're looking into the
2:41:43fair's matter and you go in on June
2:41:477th it wasn't reported to you by Maggie
2:41:49Murdoch that hey I think Alex's stealing
2:41:52money you didn't have any conversation
2:41:54with Maggie about that did I never have
2:41:55conversations with
2:41:57Maggie or Paul he wasn't involved in any
2:42:00way with the feris fee to your knowledge
2:42:02was I've never had a conversation with
2:42:09Paul and then you go
2:42:13um I mean Lee cop's dealing with Chris
2:42:16Wilson's office and then turns out
2:42:22um turns out that
2:42:25um Chris Wilson sends an email to Alec
2:42:29saying the money's on my trust account
2:42:30and Alec forwards it on to you and Lee
2:42:33coat that
2:42:34correct and and once that happened there
2:42:37there was no rush to grab the money out
2:42:40of Chris Wilson's trust account was
2:42:43there in July of 2021 we did not make
2:42:46the rush at that point because we had
2:42:47enough operating mounting and we were
2:42:50going to come back to it typically the
2:42:51attorney dealing with that case would
2:42:53handle it and ell was not in the office
2:42:55very much okay so money had the firm had
2:42:59plenty of money to operate and you just
2:43:01needed to get the money in to the firm
2:43:03by the end of the year when you did the
2:43:04bonuses is that pretty much how things
2:43:06were being looked at in June July of
2:43:082021 I don't know that we would have
2:43:10waited till December but we just were
2:43:12not doing it at that point in that
2:43:14summer it was
2:43:15actually um just an irregular summer but
2:43:19personally and professionally keeping up
2:43:20with other
2:43:22obligations in time frame to get
2:43:25it and and so in September
2:43:28of 2021 you doing your CFO
2:43:33job um you decide
2:43:37to and you have this herburger thing you
2:43:40know on your desk or I mean you said it
2:43:43was on your desk was it on desktop or
2:43:44just had a sheet of paper well it's kind
2:43:46of where my important stuff is that I
2:43:49need to get back to so it's sitting
2:43:50right under a monitor right in front of
2:43:52my
2:43:53face and and you
2:43:55um you talked about you had a number of
2:43:58commitments and and it's personal issues
2:44:01I think you said I don't want to know
2:44:03about your personal issues but what I do
2:44:05want to establish
2:44:07is Maggie and Paul's murder did not
2:44:10cause you to delay and following up on
2:44:13the herburger matter did
2:44:17it in some ways yes because it the the
2:44:21shock of it and the delay and the things
2:44:23going around the office did but but the
2:44:27true delay came in me finding the time
2:44:29to do it yeah you had a lot of other
2:44:32things going on
2:44:36yes and and what you decided to do is to
2:44:40see if there were some
2:44:43other kind of structured fees that Alec
2:44:46had done in in 2021 one to um to sort of
2:44:52like you did the herburger case cuz you
2:44:54needed to know what his gross
2:44:57collections were and how much he owed to
2:44:59the firm and that's why you looked in
2:45:02September 2021 right correct and I'm
2:45:05also still suspicious you know in my own
2:45:08mind I wanted to make sure that he had
2:45:09accounted for everything and that we had
2:45:11indeed collected everything
2:45:14right and um and so you ran a report
2:45:19at the law firm
2:45:23of clients
2:45:26with settlements I mean tell us what you
2:45:30did well I started running a report of
2:45:33all the fees that he had collected and
2:45:35started looking through those
2:45:36dispersements and then it came to me
2:45:38that I could probably shortcut this a
2:45:40little just by printing off payments to
2:45:43forge and then I started focusing on
2:45:46those first and that's when I found the
2:45:48check and the information that I found
2:45:52and that
2:45:54um well let's do you remember about what
2:45:59his fee collections were about September
2:46:02of
2:46:032021 I've got so many numbers in my head
2:46:06but they were they were over a million
2:46:08probably between a million and two
2:46:10million two to three million they a
2:46:12million to two million oh million to two
2:46:14million of fee income that he had
2:46:17collected correct when you run this
2:46:20report and did that include or not
2:46:24include the 792 on the feris case it did
2:46:27not so if you had the feris case it
2:46:30could have been over 2 million I guess I
2:46:33can't swear to what his number was I
2:46:34look at numbers all day long but that's
2:46:36the recollection of the range he would
2:46:38have been
2:46:39in and and after this
2:46:43um after you've learn about this fake
2:46:46Forge account ell
2:46:49didn't and he he was forced to resign
2:46:52from The Firm that that's correct the
2:46:54day of the next day right the next
2:46:57day and so that money that came into the
2:46:59firm was used by The Firm to pay
2:47:03off some of these victims right we have
2:47:06done some of that
2:47:11yes now the
2:47:15um the discovery of the fake Forge
2:47:20account when you were sort of when you
2:47:23ran the report on Forge that shocked you
2:47:26didn't it
2:47:29yes that information had been in the
2:47:33systems of the law
2:47:36firm going back I guess to 2015 when
2:47:39that fake Forge account was first opened
2:47:42I don't know when I don't think it was
2:47:44open that far back but I had no reason
2:47:47to suspect anything was going on we had
2:47:50no clients complaining about money
2:47:52missing trusted him we had no reason to
2:47:56look right V A lot of people like I said
2:48:00myself and US
2:48:03included and and and that's a that's a
2:48:05good point there clients
2:48:08weren't calling up complaining around
2:48:10June 7th that hey y'all need to be
2:48:13looking at Alec because you know
2:48:16something's a miss here that wasn't
2:48:17happening around June was it no and
2:48:20shamefully when we did talk to the
2:48:21clients they talked about how much they
2:48:23trusted El and how much he thought of
2:48:25them and how that they were shocked and
2:48:27confused by the fact that he had
2:48:29manipulated him and Confused them all
2:48:31these
2:48:33years so it sounds to me like on June
2:48:367th you you didn't observe some pressure
2:48:38cooker going off within the firm as to
2:48:41how Alec was handling his business I
2:48:43don't know about anybody else's pressure
2:48:45cooker I know I was putting pressure on
2:48:47him to get the answers for the fairis
2:48:49space and and it was
2:48:53a it it was a Brotherhood of lawyers
2:48:57that in the past if they've caught
2:48:59with getting more than what they were
2:49:01entitled to they pay it back and you let
2:49:03bygones be bygones that's how it's
2:49:05operated in the past right on trust yes
2:49:09right
2:49:20now the so you you ran a report on
2:49:24information
2:49:25that had had been in the systems for
2:49:28years that correct correct and
2:49:31the tragic murders of Maggie and Paul
2:49:34didn't didn't do anything to affect what
2:49:37was in your
2:49:39systems
2:49:45right and you just started looking
2:49:47because you had
2:49:50um had a conversation with Alec back in
2:49:54May about the herburger fee going to
2:49:57forge not an appropriate structural
2:50:00structured
2:50:01Manner and um that was in early May and
2:50:04you never had another conversation with
2:50:06him about that right well May and June
2:50:09in between it was late May and June the
2:50:12conversations about both were kind of in
2:50:14tandem because every time we would talk
2:50:16about H Ferris he would bring up I'm
2:50:19going to structure fees but it never
2:50:21specifically readdressed the fact that
2:50:24herburger it did address the fact that
2:50:26he should not be doing this again and
2:50:28that if he should he needed to let
2:50:30somebody know I believe ell meanwhile
2:50:32was going around complaining to my
2:50:34partners about why I was on his
2:50:36case to his Partners
2:50:39yes and the
2:50:42um now just to be clear the the
2:50:45fairest fee money was
2:50:49I mean it didn't show up on any of these
2:50:51reports and it was all paid into the law
2:50:53firm was it not it was after after
2:50:57sometime after
2:51:06September so here you are on on
2:51:08September the 3 and you are um running a
2:51:13report you see a lot of Forge checks on
2:51:17Alex client files and you start printing
2:51:21off the checks that's correct that's
2:51:23that's how you discovered it I mean it
2:51:25was did
2:51:28that Alex not only he's signing checks
2:51:31to forge he's endorsing the checks and
2:51:33putting them into the bank correct and
2:51:35at the same day is when Anette found the
2:51:37check on his office that had been
2:51:39payable to him for the fairis fees yeah
2:51:41I was going to get to that so it just I
2:51:44mean that that was pure coincidence yes
2:51:46that the timing of that pure
2:51:53coincident and Alec as you understood
2:51:56was confronted um that perhaps the next
2:52:01day or that on Friday morning I believe
2:52:03that was Friday the third so it was the
2:52:06same day that that you I did mine on
2:52:08Thursday the second so the second you
2:52:11did your
2:52:32now on the 7th in the afternoon
2:52:36Alec called you and asked you what his
2:52:40balance was and his Law Firm retirement
2:52:43plan yes sir and he told you he was
2:52:47working on the financial disclosure Ure
2:52:49for the voting accident case yes and um
2:52:53and and he had called you on other
2:52:55occasions to get that balance because he
2:52:57was filling out financial statements for
2:52:59one thing or another right he had before
2:53:01yes okay and
2:53:05um and do you
2:53:09know would you know he didn't have any
2:53:11life insurance on mager Paul do you know
2:53:14that I have no awareness of that
2:53:40that's all the questions I have redirect
2:53:42very briefly your
2:53:47h you were asked some questions
2:53:51about when you
2:53:54uh had the conversation about the feris
2:53:57fees and what was your concern then with
2:54:00just the feris fees back at that point
2:54:02in time on June 7th that he was trying
2:54:05to shelter money from the boat wreck or
2:54:07move assets out of his name or either
2:54:09delay collecting fees so trying to hide
2:54:12income from the boat r at that point in
2:54:15time did you have any idea about any of
2:54:17all of this I did not
2:54:22you were
2:54:23asked
2:54:25about prior
2:54:28instances in which there had been like
2:54:31the the loan the double loan payment and
2:54:33the credit cards and Alec paid that back
2:54:35right that's right and he paid that back
2:54:37and everything was forgotten is that
2:54:39correct that's right you were asked
2:54:41about whether or
2:54:45not all of this was in your systems
2:54:48that's correct and it was in your
2:54:50systems wasn't it it was since 2011
2:54:53correct that's right and he had gotten
2:54:55away with it all that time he
2:55:05did I believe you testified that on June
2:55:08the 7th 2021 when you went in to talk to
2:55:12Alec Murdoch that you had your
2:55:14suspicions correct I did and you
2:55:17demanded what what did you you demand I
2:55:18demanded proof that the money was
2:55:21actually in the account I wanted the
2:55:22ledgers showing the transactions and did
2:55:26you tell him what you believed did you
2:55:27tell him why you wanted that proof I
2:55:30told him I believed I had reason to
2:55:32believe that he had received the fee
2:55:34payable to
2:55:40him you're asked a little bit about the
2:55:43law firm and his father was in the law
2:55:46firm or had been he had had been yes was
2:55:49his grandfather in the law firm yes was
2:55:51there a long history of of that family
2:55:55name in this Law Firm yes is it the most
2:55:58prominent law firm in in the area I
2:56:00believe so yes a very prominent family
2:56:03name
2:56:09yes all this has been in your system
2:56:11since 2011 yes
2:56:25once the murders happened it didn't seem
2:56:28right to be raising those issues with
2:56:29the defendant then did it no it didn't I
2:56:33leave the witness after the murders
2:56:35happened did it seem right to you to
2:56:37raise those issues to the defendant no
2:56:39as I stated earlier we were concerned
2:56:41about the welfare of el and the feelings
2:56:43of himself um he was not at work when we
2:56:48were trying to make sure that he was
2:56:50emotionally okay and able to deal with
2:56:52things before we pressured him about
2:56:54anything and then just a few weeks later
2:56:57is still in I mean just in July are you
2:56:59still in shock from all of these murders
2:57:01yes and did did ultimately you get an
2:57:03email from Chris Wilson I did on July
2:57:0619th and what did that email say Chris
2:57:08said that he had the money in the trust
2:57:10available to us he's got the money it's
2:57:13no big deal correct correct
2:57:21did you still though in the back of your
2:57:22mind have some suspicions going back for
2:57:24a while I had suspicions that I didn't
2:57:27really believe that because I'd yet to
2:57:29see The Ledger or the proof and it
2:57:31seemed like there was no reason not to
2:57:33send that to me if something wasn't
2:57:35going on
2:57:56when
2:58:01ultimately you turn back to these issues
2:58:04and that Chris Wilson check was
2:58:12found did that result in the uncovering
2:58:15of all of this it did did did that
2:58:18result in him losing his job at the law
2:58:21firm it did where his family name had
2:58:24been a fixture there for decades correct
2:58:27did that La result in him losing his
2:58:30license to practice law it did and the
2:58:33defense asked you that did that result
2:58:35in him
2:58:36facing a ton of criminal charges based
2:58:39on all of that
2:58:44yes all of that was on the cus of being
2:58:46uncovered was it not
2:58:49was that on the cust of being
2:58:56uncovered any
2:58:58further exam very briefly M sec
2:59:04seconder I mean the finding the Chris
2:59:07Wilson check was coincidental to your
2:59:11work on the forge
2:59:13account uh research
2:59:16correct yes but as we uncovered the
2:59:18forge we knew we had a problem
2:59:21understand and it was the forge issue
2:59:23that led to all of
2:59:26this it would have eventually been the
2:59:29issue if we' requested Chris Wilson
2:59:32regrettably that we did not in July we
2:59:34would not have received the money
2:59:36because the money was not in there we
2:59:37found that out later well we'll find out
2:59:41about that but the so the Chris Wilson
2:59:45issue is a oneoff compared to all these
2:59:48other transactions that you brought here
2:59:50today right that's right all right thank
2:59:53you you may step down thank you

About this transcript

This page contains the full transcript of Witness says she confronted Alex Murdaugh about finances on day of killings: full video by News 19 WLTX, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 24,735 words across 3,646 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

What you can do with it

Use the transcript to take notes, quote the speaker, build a study guide, generate a summary with ChatGPT or Claude via the YouTube Summary tool, or export it as a timed subtitle file with YouTube to SRT. You can also re-open it in the transcriber to translate the transcript into 100+ languages.

Free YouTube transcript tool

YouTube2Text is a free YouTube transcript generator — no signup, no daily limit. Paste any YouTube link and get the full transcript instantly, with timestamps, click-to-jump, translation to 100+ languages, AI prompts for ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini, and exports to TXT, SRT, VTT, or Markdown.