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WILL School Board Summit Session 4: Parental Rights & Student Gender Identity — Transcript

by Wisconsin Institute for Law & Liberty · 10,767 words · 1,526 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:03well thank you all for coming back uh
0:04after lunch I know this is the hardest
0:06session of the day because uh you're all
0:07a little sleepy after eating um but we
0:10hope this will be a really good panel so
0:11the the subject of our panel is parental
0:14rights uh and there's a whole lot we
0:16could talk about but kind of the big
0:18issue that's happening uh nationally
0:20around the country relates to names
0:22pronouns and gender transitions at
0:25school so we're really going to focus
0:26exclusively on that topic and how it
0:29relates to parental and we're really
0:30going to dig deep into that and give you
0:32sort of a lot of the different aspects
0:34of that that you need to know and and
0:36hopefully will uh help you as as this
0:38issue comes up in your school district
0:39so I'm going to briefly uh introduce our
0:42panelists I'm not going to read their
0:43full bios because uh you have those in
0:45your packets and I think you want to
0:47hear what they say more than you want to
0:48hear their full bio so I'll just uh
0:50briefly uh Nikki Neely is the president
0:53and founder of parents defending
0:55education this is a uh National
0:57membership organization that gives
0:59parents resources uh it's litigated
1:01cases it does a lot in this space uh and
1:04she's also done a lot of fabulous other
1:06things that you can read about in the
1:07bio uh but she's a a very zealous
1:09advocate for parental rights nationally
1:12uh Dr Erica Anderson is a clinical
1:14psychologist uh used to practice in
1:16Berkeley but recently moved back to the
1:18Midwest in
1:19Minnesota uh she was uh on the board of
1:23wath uh and the president of US path for
1:26a number of years and is actually one of
1:28the world's leading experts experts I
1:30think on gender dysphoria so we are
1:32really privileged to have her here with
1:33us and to have her expertise uh and
1:36finally Tammy forer uh is our client in
1:39a case that we won uh thankfully it was
1:41a groundbreaking case for parental
1:43rights and uh given what happened to her
1:45in the case she's become a a very Fierce
1:48advocate for parental rights so you're
1:49going to hear a little bit uh about her
1:51story so I'm really excited for this
1:52panel uh let's give them a welcome and a
1:55thanks for all them being here
2:00so so Nikki why don't you uh just start
2:02us off sort of set the stage for us what
2:05is what is the issue uh related to names
2:08pronouns and gender Transitions and how
2:09does it how does it relate to parental
2:11rights sure um so um first I'm sure this
2:14is something that most of you are
2:15Loosely familiar with um under the guise
2:18of inclusivity districts are have been
2:20adopting policies governing the use of
2:22preferred names and pronouns most most
2:23frequently through bullying and
2:25harassment codes um and this is often
2:27then at the back end tied to student
2:29codes of conduct which means that
2:31violations of these codes then can be
2:33subject to punishment up to an including
2:35expulsion um the justification for this
2:38is we see districts across the country
2:39citing Title 9 UM and the Biden
2:42administration's forthcoming rule we'll
2:44get more into Title 9 in a little bit
2:45but you know a lot of districts are
2:47being told by their legal council or by
2:49the state that they must adopt these
2:50because of title n um or in certain
2:53instances State human rights law like in
2:55Iowa recently um a district that we had
2:57sued linmar Community Schools cited Iowa
2:59State human human rights law um the
3:01counter for this is as the panel talking
3:03about racial discrimination talked uh
3:05discussed earlier compelled speech um
3:07you are forcing someone to say things
3:09that they may not believe in um is a
3:11taxpayer funded Public School System
3:13entitled to real estate in a student or
3:15teacher's mouth in their head um and
3:18then kind of the slightly further a
3:20field is the the the the social
3:22transition aspect of this um so as of um
3:25today um my organization parents
3:27defending education has identified 1,6
3:29school districts across the country that
3:31maintains what we call parental
3:33exclusion policies um this impacts 18,6
3:3642 schools and over 10.8 million
3:39children um these policies have been
3:41adopted most frequently by school boards
3:43they have been voted through by duly
3:45elected Schoolboard um that says that
3:47parents do not have a right to know
3:48their child's gender identity um this is
3:51again done under the guise of safety um
3:54schools will often maintain two separate
3:56sets of Records um with a child's new
3:58name a child's new pronoun how the child
4:00presents at school um we also see this
4:02manifesting in the classroom because
4:03teachers then will ask teach uh students
4:05at the beginning of the school year um
4:07what name what pronoun can I should I
4:08use in class what should I use when I
4:11call home to speak to your family um
4:13some states like in California have
4:15mandated that these policies exist and
4:17so every District in the state must have
4:19these on the books um well in other
4:21places um and this is this is again not
4:24just like a blue State Red State thing I
4:25mean we have seen in Idaho in Texas in
4:27Utah their state school boards
4:29associations pushing this as model
4:32policies to them we've also seen
4:33activist groups like glissen creating
4:35and pushing model School World policies
4:36and lobbying at the local and the state
4:38level for these um in February 2022 some
4:41of you might remember the oakair school
4:43district Did a teacher training program
4:44where they had a whole set of documents
4:46that we obtained um that said that
4:48parents are not entitled to know their
4:50child's gender identity that information
4:52must be earned as a mother of a
4:54nine-year-old 10-year-old I take issue
4:55with that that was not cool um and but
4:59they said that their priority is
5:00supporting the student um it is to take
5:02a step back you know as we're talking
5:03about safety worth remembering that
5:06educators are mandatory reporters if
5:08someone in your school system believes
5:10that a child is not in a safe
5:12environment at home they must report
5:14that to Child Protective Services we all
5:16know what CPS is right I mean it's like
5:19that's it's a hassle no family wants to
5:20go through that but through that process
5:22you are entitled to a measure of due
5:24process you were allowed to present your
5:25case you were allowed to see what's
5:26against you you have meetings you have
5:28interviews this is very different than a
5:30math teacher saying you know what I
5:32think Luke's Catholic I think he's not
5:34going to be supportive of his kid I'm
5:35going to withhold this information those
5:37are two very very different things um
5:40and so you know to for schools to be
5:42doing this unilaterally is something
5:43that's really really frightening um as I
5:45mentioned this this raises a lot of
5:47significant parental rights concerns um
5:49we sued linmar Community Schools in Iowa
5:51in 2022 over their policy the policy
5:54that they had in the book said that
5:55beginning in seventh grade on um it is
5:57it it was a child's decision whether
5:59their parents could have access to that
6:01information and they went to Great
6:03Lengths they put this information into a
6:05temporary file so that even if a parent
6:07were to pull their kid out of a district
6:08and transferred to another school to a
6:10private school a parent would never have
6:12access to that temporary file because
6:13under furpa the federal education rights
6:15and privacy act you have access to your
6:17child's permanent record but not a
6:19temporary record and so they were very
6:20much trying to be too cute by half and
6:22really like hide this information from
6:24families um what I want to tell all of
6:27you today is there is a lot of very very
6:28clear lead precedent that protects a
6:31parent's right to direct the care and
6:33upbringing of your children um troil V
6:35Granville says that um the interest of
6:37parents and the care custody control of
6:39their children is perhaps the oldest of
6:41the fundamental Liberty interests
6:42recognized by the Supreme Court Pierce
6:44Fe Society of sisters the child is not
6:46the mere creature of the state those who
6:48nurture him and direct his Destiny have
6:50the right coupled with the high duty to
6:52recognize and prepare him for additional
6:53obligations and the liberty of parents
6:55and Guardians includes the right to
6:57direct the upbringing and education of
6:58children under their control
7:00and also Myer V Nebraska the Liberty
7:02protected by the 14th Amendment includes
7:03the right of parents to establish a home
7:05and bring up children and to control the
7:07education of their own I mean like to
7:09like like I feel like my job is kind of
7:11translating lawyer into English um and I
7:14mean let's take a step back you know we
7:16as parents like I have to sign a
7:17permission slip for my child to have bug
7:19spray sunscreen to go on field trips you
7:21know this is something that we as
7:22parents are used to signing off on
7:23everything um yet now we have districts
7:26that are really taking um you know
7:28they're intervene these these social
7:29interventions these medical
7:31interventions in some cases I mean
7:32school-based Health Centers referring
7:34kids to clinics and therapists without
7:35parental parental knowledge these are
7:38really major interventions that schools
7:39are doing without families knowing and
7:41so you know taking a step back what does
7:44this mean for school systems you know
7:45you're all in positions of governance
7:47trust I mean we have seen over the past
7:49four or five years consumers families
7:52trust in the public school system has
7:54crumbled and if we ever want to get back
7:56to a place where there is a constructive
7:58relationship this lying this hiding
8:01Secrets has to end and so that to me is
8:03I think that's kind of an overview of
8:05like what's going on and why this
8:06matters so much yeah thanks Nikki that's
8:08a really great great overview of the
8:09issue uh Tammy let's let's kick it over
8:11to you so you uh had an experience with
8:14one of these policies can you just sort
8:16of tell us what happened to you and your
8:18daughter okay so in late 2020 uh my
8:21daughter was experiencing some pretty
8:23severe depression and anxiety she had
8:25come to me at the beginning of her sixth
8:27grade year and asked if we if uh if I
8:29could find somebody for her to speak
8:31with um I had some difficulty finding
8:33somebody it was during covid the places
8:35that I reached out to they weren't
8:36accepting clients there was too big of a
8:38need and not enough
8:40providers um she was in the cutle Marine
8:42School District I reached out to the
8:44counselor at that district and I
8:46explained to them what was going on that
8:47my daughter was having some struggles I
8:49asked if there was a co-op program or
8:51anybody that they could refer me to um
8:54they said they would go ahead and start
8:55to work on that and they did they did go
8:57ahead and work on that there was a bit
8:59of a delay delay uh just because of the
9:01need uh during that delay my daughter
9:03did start to spiral uh mentally further
9:06into um depression and anxiety turned
9:09into thoughts of self harm and suicide
9:12and believing that she maybe was not a
9:14girl uh she had confided in a friend at
9:17school telling the friend that she felt
9:19maybe she wasn't a girl that friend then
9:22went to uh teachers
9:24Aid at school and informed the teachers
9:27Aid how my daughter was feeling and
9:29staff member came up to her after school
9:31and said you know I heard that you
9:33weren't really feeling comfortable uh
9:35you didn't feel like you were a girl you
9:37could go to the office and fill out some
9:38paperwork and you could change your name
9:40and gender at school we could just go
9:42there and take care of it today um my
9:44daughter said you know I really can't do
9:46that my mother would not be okay with
9:49that um at that point the staff member
9:51said well then I encourage you to go
9:52home and talk to your mom about it she
9:54did come home to me that day and express
9:56to me how um poor she was feeling and
9:59she requested to go to inpatient care um
10:02I immediately said I would absolutely do
10:05that for you I reached out to a local
10:07facility um I was very transparent with
10:09them as well letting them know what was
10:10going on with my daughter how she was
10:12feeling um they said they would accept
10:14her I then reached out to the school
10:17district and signed all the release
10:19forms so that cudle Marine school
10:21district and I we could all work
10:23together for when my daughter returned
10:24to school we were all on the same page
10:26on how to best assist her um the moment
10:28I walked into to the facility they
10:30affirmed my daughter they never referred
10:32to my daughter as her birth name or her
10:33birth gender she was affirmed
10:35immediately um she was in the program
10:38for about 8 Days upon release she did
10:40reach out to that school district and
10:42asked them when she returned to school
10:44if she could use her preferred name and
10:46pronouns the counselor reached out to me
10:49I said you know at this point I this is
10:51new to me I really don't know how to
10:53navigate this at this point I will say
10:55yes I will go ahead and say yes I don't
10:56want my daughter to feel unsupportive uh
10:58she's is going to be out of school for
11:00the next 3 weeks for outpatient care and
11:02I will take my time and research this
11:04topic and I will touch base with you
11:06before she returns to school to let you
11:08know our final
11:09decision um in that time I did my
11:12research I will be completely Frank with
11:14you I was devastated at the things that
11:17were happening across the country to
11:18young children making decisions that
11:21they are not capable making um
11:25the deceit that was going on between the
11:28parents and the school dist District the
11:29secrets that we're keeping um so my
11:32husband and I made the decision that we
11:33were not going to affirm our daughter
11:35there's a long-standing practice of Wai
11:37and C that was clearly established along
11:39before the affirmative care model and
11:41that was what we wanted to practice I
11:43reached out to the school district and
11:45made them aware of that the principal
11:47informed me that there were some staff
11:48members that wanted to support my
11:49daughter and I said well I appreciate
11:51that they would like to support my
11:53daughter my expectation is that they
11:54follow my lead I'm going to make the
11:56medical decisions for my child and she
11:59will will go back to school with her
12:00birth name and her birth gender until
12:02there is a actual professional that can
12:04assess what's really going on with her
12:06I'm not making any rash
12:08decisions at that point they asked if
12:10they could call me back and the
12:11principal went back to Administration
12:13the next day I received a call and they
12:15informed me that um schools are an
12:18advocate of the child and not of the
12:20parent and should my daughter return
12:22back to the clearine school district she
12:24would do so using whatever name and
12:26pronouns she preferred because they had
12:29a policy that allowed nicknames I very
12:32frankly told the principal on that call
12:34that you do not get to decide the
12:36perception of what's going on in my
12:37daughter's mind we are both well aware
12:39that she is not making up a nickname I
12:42am not going to let her return to school
12:44using her preferred name and gender I do
12:46not think that's the best thing for her
12:48medically um we had to agree to disagree
12:51I immediately pulled my daughter out of
12:53the school district um and I did go
12:56ahead and seek legal action I tried to
12:58find somebody that would assist me cuz
13:00there was no way that I was going to let
13:01any other parent in this District or
13:03child deal with what I did within that
13:06District um I was lucky and fortunate
13:09enough to find will um I spoke to Luke
13:12Luke agreed to take the case and then
13:13October of 2023 we did win that case
13:16that it was in in our favor that the
13:19school district did violate my parental
13:21rights by choosing to socially
13:23transition my daughter against my wishes
13:26um and the kettle Marine School District
13:28that I know of is the only one in the
13:29state that now is legally required to
13:32defer the decisions to the parents and
13:34they cannot make those decisions against
13:36the parents
13:45wishes thanks Tammy for sharing that
13:47story so tell us just a little bit about
13:49where your daughter is doing now and and
13:51sort of what happened after you pulled
13:52her out of out of out of school was she
13:54angry at you sort of what what happened
13:56after you pulled her U well after I
13:59pulled my daughter off out of school she
14:01she hated me I will be frank she was
14:03told by the medical professionals at the
14:07care facility that I was going to be her
14:08biggest adversary and I would never
14:10accept her for who she was um the school
14:14district they did not encourage my
14:16daughter only one staff member
14:18encouraged my daughter in this I will
14:19state that clearly because I do not want
14:21to um throw any shade on the kettle
14:24Marine School District every staff
14:26member that I dealt with was very polite
14:28and professional with me I could tell
14:29that they were not comfortable making
14:31the decision that they had to make um
14:33but she is doing absolutely fine she has
14:36desisted about 3 weeks after removing
14:39from I did remove her from social media
14:42I took out outside influences I really
14:45really just tightened her Circle when
14:48she was going through her struggles
14:50about 3 weeks later she came to me and
14:52did share with me that affirmative care
14:54really messed her up because all the
14:56professionals that were assisting her
14:58were telling her that me trying to slow
15:02the process down and just for her to
15:03take a deep breath before making any
15:05serious decisions I was her enemy um but
15:09she is happy and healthy now she has
15:12desisted she's completely comfortable
15:13with her body she is very happy that I
15:17decided to just take a pause and like
15:19let's not rush into anything um and she
15:22does occasionally speak to me or speak
15:25with me on these issues in public forums
15:28for people you know to be aware that you
15:31don't need to affirm your child
15:33immediately right away it's okay to have
15:34your child take a moment and just think
15:37about the decisions that they're making
15:39uh children are not taught every day for
15:42whatever reason in our society that you
15:43know growing up is hard you're going to
15:45feel uncomfortable in your body you're
15:46going to hate yourself some days that's
15:48never going to go away even in adulthood
15:50and you just need to learn how to
15:52process those feelings and work through
15:53it you can't run away from those bad
15:55feelings um but she's doing phenomenally
15:59Where do you um where do you think she
16:01would be if you hadn't slowed the
16:02process
16:03down I honestly do not think my daughter
16:06would be with me today if I hadn't
16:07slowed the process down she had made a
16:11promise to herself that if transitioning
16:14did not help with her mental health that
16:16she was going to end her
16:19life thanks for sharing
16:22that um Dr Anderson you're a practicing
16:26mental health professional who's worked
16:27in this area for a super long time so so
16:29can you just give us your take on this
16:30issue and these
16:32policies sure first of all thank you
16:36thank you for sharing your story it was
16:38a pleasure to behind the scenes work
16:40with you yeah um uh so I want to say a
16:45couple preliminary things if I could
16:46just to lead into that so I'm a
16:48psychologist for 46 years um clinical
16:52psychologist and I've worked with many
16:54many kids and families over a long
16:56career done a lot of different things
16:58I'm also a
17:00parent and
17:03um so I come at this from that
17:06perspective and although I wouldn't
17:09necessarily likely agree with all of you
17:12in the room about every subject matter I
17:14do agree with you that parents are in
17:17the best position to judge what's
17:18necessary for their children and and our
17:22lawyers in the room can argue I think
17:24effectively that it's their legal right
17:27to assert um with schools so it's been a
17:31it's been a privilege for me to come to
17:32this Luke was actually the first
17:34attorney who approached me about this
17:36subject matter although I've
17:38subsequently gotten involved in other uh
17:41issues and other matters um and I've
17:44been hearing I had been hearing from
17:45parents for some time at that point uh
17:48in my work that they were concerned
17:50about the ideological capture um not
17:53only of some teachers but also some
17:56clinicians and I had been speaking out
17:59about my concerns about this really as
18:01long ago as 6 years ago in the
18:03Washington Post and a big splash
18:06Atlantic article where I characterized
18:09myself as the naysayer at my University
18:11Affiliated gender Clinic someone who was
18:13calling into question the prevailing
18:15logic that you know kids know who they
18:17are and you should just let them be who
18:19they are um that wasn't my experience as
18:22a psychologist uh it was my experience
18:25that there were many kids who were
18:27questioning their gender and even
18:29troubled by it and what they needed was
18:31our help to figure it out so that's what
18:33I've been doing all these years um in
18:36truth Luke had already cobbled together
18:39um the basis of my subsequent affidavit
18:43thank you Luke for that and uh when we
18:47spoke uh I realized I did have a lot to
18:49say about this matter and was happy to
18:51sign on as as an expert witness um and
18:55as everyone in the room
18:57knows we
18:59one if you read the judge's
19:03ruling three or four pages of his ruling
19:06are quoting me so maybe I was persuasive
19:10and I would say to you all of you who
19:12are devoted to parent rights it's not
19:15just the legal matters but it's the it's
19:18the psychological factors that are also
19:20at play here and really really important
19:24and I believe that the judges will be
19:27swayed by the legal argument combined
19:30with the scientific evidence about what
19:32we know about such kids and what to how
19:35to effectively help them uh concurrent
19:38with the matter as it was preceding here
19:40in Wisconsin I was signed on as an
19:42expert witness on a uh a legal matter in
19:46um School District in
19:49California uh which we also won again
19:53the judge citing uh citing for three or
19:56four pages my expert witness affidavit
19:59as a justification for why it makes no
20:02sense in fact it's harmful to have these
20:05secrecy policies in school districts and
20:08to keep important information about the
20:10health and well-being of
20:12children from their own
20:14parents the very premise upon which
20:17which such policies are built namely
20:20that such policies are good for kids is
20:23demonstrably false no professional
20:27Society no professional Society of which
20:30I am aware has endorsed parent secrecy
20:34policies activists have ideologically
20:38driven people have with the expectation
20:41that they're going to save a couple of
20:43kids from Abus of parents and as Nicole
20:46points out everywhere in the United
20:48States we have uh mandatory reporting
20:52laws so that educators are
20:55required to involve authorities when
20:57there is any susp ipon as an educator
21:00you don't have to prove as a
21:01psychologist I don't have to prove abuse
21:04I just have to be worried about it
21:05seriously worried about it and then the
21:07authorities get involved in do an
21:09investigation which is horrible maybe
21:12but also it reveals our bias as a
21:15society the safeguarding of
21:21children in the United Kingdom last week
21:25a major report was released which is
21:27having International repercussions
21:29so-called cast Commission report and if
21:31you know anything about it you should
21:33read it there is a whole section on
21:35social transition in there the cast
21:37commission conducted about 11 systematic
21:41evidence reviews they they reviewed
21:44policies in 15 other countries they
21:46reviewed all clinical guidelines having
21:48to do with transgender care and they
21:50came to the conclusion that social
21:52transition of children is not justified
21:55by evidence scientific evidence and that
21:58it should be done only very cautiously
22:01and only only only with parents never
22:06without parents so I'm very gratified to
22:10see that full report which is a major
22:13major thing uh I had a lot of
22:16interaction with Hillary Cass Dr Cass in
22:19the last couple of years and found that
22:21our viewpoints aligned quite quite well
22:24so you know I'm going to I'm going to do
22:27an uncharacteristic Midwest W thing and
22:29I'm going to
22:30brag I feel Vindicated because I've been
22:34saying this for
22:35years I've been writing it for years and
22:39I've taken a lot of grief for it I've
22:42been vilified by some professional
22:44organizations certainly by a lot of
22:46ideologically captured captured
22:48activists so I'm happy to um put up my
22:51credentials against theirs and uh if you
22:55do so I think you'll agree I'm qualified
22:58to have the opinions that I do and I
23:01argue them using the best uh evidence
23:04available it's my pleasure to be here to
23:07help you um Safeguard
23:19children Dr Anderson quick followup for
23:22you something that um parents are often
23:25told and I think even Tammy was told
23:26maybe by the the medical professional
23:28is this sort of threat of suicide uh
23:31it's worded in terms of would you rather
23:34have a a live son or a dead daughter uh
23:37do you have a reaction to that or can
23:39you respond to that I've always taken
23:40strenuous exception to that I think it's
23:42it's at best misguided paring of a
23:46mantra and it's not supported by the
23:48evidence one of the 11 systematic
23:50evidence reviews that cast commission
23:52did was this very subject of self harm
23:54and suicide there was a important study
23:57coming out of Finland I know the Doctor
23:59Who did it she's in charge of gender
24:01medicine for the country of Finland
24:03that's a very Progressive Country and
24:05this study demonstrated because they
24:07studied they studied all the kids who
24:10had gone through the gender clinics over
24:1315 years in Finland they have the
24:16ability to do that because they have a
24:17National Health Plan and a national
24:19system of collecting data the the raid
24:22of suicide of the kids who went through
24:24gender
24:26clinics did not go down
24:29regrettably it resembled the rate of
24:32suicide of other uh adolescents who had
24:35serious psychological issues so we have
24:39a clear indication and there's some
24:41other research that supports that uh
24:43conclusion we have a clear indication
24:45that this is a misstatement or maybe
24:49blackmail to try to persuade parents to
24:52do what the person who's using that lie
24:54to wants them to do and I I think there
24:58are going to be there are already some
25:01lawsuits but there going to be more
25:02lawsuits uh aimed at people who uh
25:05repeat such lies there are number of
25:07mantras and lies like that but that's
25:09the most inflammatory
25:11one yeah you mentioned litigation Nikki
25:14um there's been some lawsuits over the
25:16policy we these policies we've talked
25:18about a few of them can you just kind of
25:19give us an overview of the of the state
25:21of the litigation over these policies
25:23yeah it's interesting because it's
25:24pretty mixed quite honestly even though
25:27as I said I I believe and my my lawyers
25:28believe that there is a very clear legal
25:30right parental right um liberty interest
25:32in this um there are kind of four
25:34buckets of litigation that are going
25:35right now the first is parent versus
25:37District on notifications so these have
25:39been largely families where their child
25:41has been transitioned behind their back
25:43the parent has found out Su the district
25:45um there's one in Florida um January
25:47Little John who some of you might know
25:48um she sued her District in Leon County
25:50um that was dismissed in the district
25:51court and it's currently pending appeal
25:53in the 11th circuit um there's also one
25:55in Massachusetts um foot V lllo um dmas
25:59ruled actually in favor of the school
26:00and found that the district's policy of
26:02Parental exclusion was flawed and
26:04disconcerting and that students and
26:06parents would almost certainly be better
26:07served by a different approach but that
26:09its actions didn't violate the
26:10constitution this has been appealed to
26:12the first circuit um those of you who
26:13know anything about the federal C the
26:15federal courts um obviously the courts
26:17in Massachusetts are a little bit more
26:19liberal than they are in Florida and so
26:20I think we're likely probably honestly
26:22to see very different decisions in that
26:24and um when that happens it's what's
26:26called a circuit split this is something
26:27that prank will end up having to be
26:29resolved by the Supreme Court but I
26:30don't think anytime soon and so we're
26:32just kind of watching all these sort of
26:33burble up um there's also one recently
26:35that was um in in uh Maryland John and
26:38Jane parent versus Montgomery County
26:40Board of Education This was um dismissed
26:43um but on standing grounds they said the
26:45parents didn't have the right to
26:46challenge the policy because their kids
26:47weren't affected and so that was kind of
26:49more of like a procedural thing um
26:51another kind of bucket is Teachers suing
26:53districts that are forcing them to hide
26:55these secrets this is this came up most
26:57recently in California um California
26:59being a state where all districts must
27:01hide the parent the gender identity um
27:03so two teachers represented by the
27:04Thomas Moore Law Society um sued their
27:06District in the state of California
27:07saying we don't really want to keep
27:09secrets from the families um those
27:11parents actually or the those teachers
27:13actually won they got a prelimary
27:14injunction um I think the state is
27:16planning on like they're going to appeal
27:17that so that's still kind of working its
27:18way through the system um there have
27:21also been a couple instances where
27:23districts have put in place parental
27:25notification policies some in California
27:27some in New Jersey again kind of like
27:29thumbing their their nose at state law
27:32um in California Chino Valley um put one
27:34of those policies in place and then they
27:35were sued by the Attorney General same
27:37thing happened in um Maryland no in in
27:39uh New Jersey where four districts put
27:41in place parental notification policy
27:43saying no it is our policy as districts
27:45that we will tell parents if a child is
27:47going to do this um and that AG also has
27:49gone after them and so those are kind of
27:50working their way through the courts um
27:52and then sort of the backdrop for all of
27:54this is something where um that is um
27:56this happened in Virginia
27:58but it happened it started in 2017 2018
28:01Gavin Graham versus gluster um and this
28:04is something where a a student felt that
28:06um a student was not able to use the
28:08bathrooms the locker room of um the
28:11students's preferred gender identity um
28:13was denied that accommodation and it
28:15kind of bounced up and down over the
28:16courts for like years and years the kid
28:18graduated um but um eventually the um
28:22fourth circuit decided that um Title 9
28:25and 14th am mon violations took place
28:26because the student faced emotional harm
28:29from using the restroom assigned to the
28:31students's biological sex and the
28:32Supreme Court declined to take that up
28:34that was in 2020 and so that's kind of
28:36the backdrop against which all of you
28:38are operating which is to say if we were
28:40a Facebook status it's complicated um
28:43and so that makes things very very messy
28:45because there's a lot of like just
28:47crossing legal precedent none of which
28:48is really even like some of which kind
28:50of touches on here and so that's not
28:52very good or very easy and
28:53straightforward for you so
28:55sorry it's complicated consult a
28:58is the is the is the bottom line um Dr
29:01Anderson back to you uh you touched on
29:03this a little bit before but there's
29:05been quite a lot of change happening
29:06recently in Europe can you just sort of
29:08talk about uh globally how the Mental
29:11Health Community is thinking about this
29:13issue and where does the United States
29:15sort of fall on the spectrum of that so
29:18Europe is getting it right uh they've
29:20done systematic evidence reviews and
29:22their best scientists have studied these
29:24issues including the recent um cast
29:27Commission and they've all concurred
29:30that the evidence systematic evidence uh
29:33as reviewed is insufficient to
29:35justify medicalization of Miners and um
29:40and and also that they're going to be
29:42very cautious extremely cautious in
29:45offering uh interventions that are that
29:48cause irreversible changes life uh life
29:52changes um I I've been traveling to
29:55Europe um actually for the last 10 years
29:57and and in the last couple years I've
29:59been there a number of times meeting
30:01with some of the people who are my
30:03counterparts in Europe and we we all
30:05agree so I say sometimes I'm more
30:08comfortable in Europe than I am in the
30:09United States and in professional
30:11circles because they're really looking
30:14at the evidence they're they're trying
30:16to understand the need um we're all
30:19seeing the same thing which is a huge
30:21increase in the numbers of kids who are
30:24asserting a sexual or gender minority
30:26label all the big surveys in the US have
30:28shown this Gallop Harris CDC Williams
30:31Institute uh and so on and um and we're
30:36being asked what to do about it um one
30:40mistake that a lot of people are making
30:42is assuming that all of these kids are
30:44transgender
30:45kids no they're not they're a
30:48heterogeneous group that are gender
30:50questioning or asserting something and
30:52getting to the bottom of what's going on
30:54with individual children is all
30:55important so I've been a huge advocate
30:58surprise surprise as a psychologist of
31:00evaluating every child and trying to
31:02determine what's best for them and
31:04that's a big a big recommendation of the
31:07of the cast commission is individualized
31:10evaluation before any intervention
31:12including social transition by the way
31:15that I've been fighting people in the US
31:17about this you know some people say well
31:19it's not a medical intervention so why
31:21should a kid or family seek professional
31:25guidance such as you uh for making a
31:28decision like that can't they just make
31:30their best decision well they can um but
31:33now with experts having looked at it we
31:36think it's probably a good idea usually
31:38it's a sign that something's going on
31:40with your child the vast majority of
31:42such children have other things going on
31:44with them uh depression anxiety and so
31:46on and we should know about that and we
31:49don't just default to treating gender as
31:52a siloed problem we need to think
31:54holistically about about the children so
31:57there's a huge differ difference uh same
31:59difference um is exists between Canada
32:03and Europe Canada is sort of fighting
32:05through the nail to um in some circles
32:08to keep the the very uh Advocate
32:12oriented approach to gender with kids
32:14with youth and I'm a occasional
32:17consultant there as well with a couple
32:19of provinces who are trying to introduce
32:21more reasonable uh approaches to these
32:24issues um one of the one of the
32:26arguments that we here and that school
32:29board members will hear if they you know
32:31try to develop a policy on this topic is
32:34you know this is just a nickname what's
32:35the big deal uh you know why shouldn't
32:37we just respect a nickname just like we
32:39do other nicknames so Tammy maybe you
32:42could take that first and then back to
32:43you Dr Anderson how would you respond to
32:45that uh given your what happened with
32:47your daughter was it was it a big deal
32:48for your daughter or was it no big deal
32:50for her it was a huge deal for my
32:53daughter um from my experience with my
32:56daughter she wanted to be anybody else
32:58but herself she really really was at a
33:02place where she hated herself uh you
33:04have to understand it was here in Co she
33:06was very isolated she didn't have a lot
33:08of people in her Corner as most children
33:10didn't at that point to like encourage
33:12them and lift them up they were isolated
33:14at home um she was not just picking up a
33:18quick name and going on with her life
33:21she was creating a whole new person she
33:23wanted a different name she wanted a
33:25different Jer she wanted to be present
33:28herself differently it was creating an
33:30entirely new identity it's not just a
33:33nickname that is not the way that these
33:35children look at it your District could
33:37tell you that that's the policy that
33:38they use to let your child um transition
33:42at school push back against that you
33:44have every right to do that you have
33:45parental authority to do that it is not
33:47a school district's place to decide any
33:50sort of medical care for your child that
33:52is strictly false to the parent frankly
33:54because at the end of the day it's your
33:55responsibility to deal with any of those
33:57regs s those regrets should not be put
33:59on staff or administrators within a
34:01school district and the way the policies
34:03are written right now those are being
34:06put on staff and School District members
34:08and from my experience a large portion
34:11of Staff members and administration are
34:13not comfortable following the policies
34:15that are being handed
34:18down um how about you Dr Anderson from a
34:21clinical perspective how would you
34:22respond to that argument I think uh
34:24reasonable people can disagree but
34:27probably few of us would say that the
34:29average teacher in public school is a is
34:31qualified to diagnose gender
34:34dysphoria and uh if they're not then
34:37what business would they have affirming
34:39an identity completely different than
34:40the the one that everyone else knows the
34:43child by so so I've been making the case
34:45that school is not the proper place for
34:48that kind of evaluation and really
34:50should be done by a the appropriate
34:52professional uh my colleagues in Europe
34:54totally agree that's why I'm kind of in
34:57spirit a a European um teachers have so
35:00much to do these days I mean after all
35:02we we just went through this horrible
35:04social experiment which is a flop of uh
35:08of of uh isolation from school during
35:11covid and the kids are behind uh
35:14teachers are scrambling to to keep up
35:17and we keep loading them on loading them
35:19up with tasks to do um which they're not
35:23they're not equipped to do frankly as as
35:26loving as as most teachers are as very
35:29confident as they are and what I've been
35:32arguing um I think is that this whole
35:35notion of parent secrecy policies uh
35:39creates not only a rift in the family
35:41but creates a a rift between teachers
35:44and parents which we dare not really uh
35:48tolerate because historically um the
35:51Hallmark of public education has been
35:53partnership between parents and and
35:55teachers and you don't want to mess with
35:58that amen amen um Nikki uh over to you
36:02so another argument that we often hear
36:05that lawyers will assert is that uh
36:07Title 9 requires this so I know there's
36:09a new rule coming we'll get to that but
36:11how about currently under Title 9 is
36:13that true does title N9 require schools
36:15to hide things from parents you might be
36:18surprised but districts and states and
36:20the federal government are trying to
36:21have their cake and eat it too so right
36:23after um President Biden took office
36:25they issued an executive order 13988
36:28executive order on preventing and
36:30combating discrimination on the basis of
36:31gender identity or sexual orientation so
36:34it took a Supreme Court decision bosck
36:36be Clayton County which said that you
36:37can't discriminate against your
36:38employees on the basis of sex sexual
36:40orientation gender identity um and
36:43expanded that to all other spheres
36:44including education which is interesting
36:46because the Supreme Court actually in
36:47their BOS decision went out of its way
36:49to say this does not apply to other
36:51federal or state laws that um prohibit
36:54sex discrimination and so this this is
36:56the Biden people kind of picking and
36:57choosing chry picking um so this um and
37:01they had they had made very clear their
37:02plans to unwind Betsy D's title n laws
37:05that she put in place in 2020 um so kind
37:08of as part of this whole gender
37:09discrimination um project that they're
37:11working on they rolled out EEOC orders I
37:14mean obviously with many of you you know
37:15being school board members you also have
37:16employees that might be facing some of
37:18these issues and so there's kind of the
37:20student aspect of it there's the
37:21employee aspect of this um and doj um
37:24and the education department started to
37:25put out fact sheets advising schools on
37:27what to do about this you know how to
37:29par like sports participation names Etc
37:31and so this is this is all happening in
37:33June 2021 like right after they take
37:35office and so everybody's like okay we
37:36we have to do romantic um so this so
37:41everybody's like we have to do this all
37:42right our school's going to be back in
37:43session we we have to do all these
37:45things um at the end of the in August
37:482021 20 States sued the education
37:51department saying that they don't have
37:52to do Rec cool with the dark I we'll
37:54just keep going I don't know somebody's
37:56working on it I think so um so 20 States
37:59sue the education department over this
38:01saying asking for plenary injunction
38:03saying this is nonsense we don't want
38:05this um the 20 states does not include
38:07Wisconsin sorry guys um but they're
38:09saying you know we don't think this is
38:10constitutional we think there are real
38:12administrative prestig or act problems
38:14and the um the district ends up or the
38:17the 20 states end up getting an
38:18injunction and so what's interesting is
38:20like I actually was looking this up last
38:21night I was like why has this not been
38:22resolved yet um because in 2022 the
38:25eastern district of Tennessee grants the
38:28injunction and says you know you guys
38:29don't have to go ahead with this and it
38:31hasn't moved anywhere since and so the
38:33it's in the sixth circuit there was an
38:35argument um in April 23 where the the
38:38federal government is arguing against
38:39the state saying no no no you have to do
38:41this thing except doj's argument in this
38:44is um the interpretation of the of the
38:47guidance documents aren't it's it can't
38:49be you shouldn't have given the
38:51injunction because it's just guidance
38:54and the judge in the sixth Circuit Judge
38:55Joan Larson is like well if it's just
38:57does guidance and it doesn't mean
38:58anything then why did you put it out in
39:00the first place and so I think this is
39:02fascinating right for like the education
39:04department to be like wink wink n n do
39:06these things or else it's coming down
39:08the pike and then to say like hey but
39:10you don't have to do it is like again
39:11they're trying to have their cake and E
39:12to too tldr we are interpreting it as no
39:15one in the country if doj came out flat
39:19out and said it's non-binding y'all it's
39:21nonbinding okay so um they're also I
39:24mean separate from those 20 States Texas
39:25also has its own thing so with I guess
39:27we're going to get into like where Title
39:289 stands but as of right now like the
39:30rule the final rule has not come out um
39:32as of yesterday the education department
39:34canceled their last couple meetings with
39:37o the office of information Regulatory
39:38Affairs um which is like they're which
39:41means that they're finalizing the rule
39:42they had this rule that came out or they
39:44yeah they released the first iteration
39:46of it in 2022 the Athletics part in 2023
39:48they accepted over 250,000 comments from
39:51the members of the public saying dear
39:52God don't do this to our children um sex
39:55sex does not equal sexual orientation
39:56gender identity if you're going to do it
39:58do it through an act of Congress you
39:59can't update um a a law from 1972 just
40:02through like waving your wand pen on a
40:03phone you know Obama style um and so
40:06that rule has not come out yet um and so
40:09with that in mind it will probably come
40:11out within the next 45 days um kind of
40:13counting back from the from where the um
40:16from the election date um May 21st May
40:19May 21st is the drop dead date when the
40:20rule has to come out and so when that
40:23happens there will be a lot of
40:25litigation and it's going to at that
40:26point be to the Nationwide injunction
40:28but even thinking back to 2020 when um
40:31Betsy's rule came out that was I mean
40:33May 2020 the world was shut down there
40:35were no covid vaccines there was not a
40:37single human being with a pulse on a
40:38school campus in America and every
40:41single titel nine officer every single
40:43School administrator was like ringing
40:44their hands saying there's no way we can
40:46comply with this in 10 weeks um there
40:48was no one who was being raped there was
40:50no one who's being harassed on campuses
40:51like what do you mean you knew this was
40:53going to happen you sort of you read the
40:54proposed rule you sort of knew the
40:55direction this was going um and now
40:57we're watching organizations like AXA
40:59the association of title N9 officers
41:02falling over themselves saying hey this
41:03is coming here's how you update all your
41:04policies and so you can kind of watch
41:06where the temperature and where School
41:08administrators where they want this to
41:10go versus where they are legally obliged
41:12to go and so know that you are on solid
41:14legal standing if the Department of
41:15Justice says this is not enforcable then
41:17it is not enforcable so the the new rule
41:20uh we we we don't know what's exactly
41:22going to say but we've seen the proposed
41:23rule does the does the text of the
41:25proposed rule say anything being
41:27explicit about the parental notice and
41:30consent over gender transitions does it
41:32address that issue directly in the so
41:34you you guys might have seen in the news
41:35that they're the Biden people have said
41:37they're going to bifurcate this they're
41:38going to release the Athletics part
41:39after the election which is I think you
41:41know again kind of disingenuous because
41:43it's impossible to Overlay sexual
41:46orientation and gender identity into
41:47this Law Without impacting Athletics in
41:50whatever way um and so I think you know
41:53with that there is um you know I think
41:55the parental exclusion is kind of the
41:57biggest concern um because schools then
41:59can strip the parental prerogative about
42:01I don't want my child to be go by that
42:02name I don't want my child to stay in
42:04that cabin when they go on the overnight
42:05field trip where if they start to defer
42:07to the children on that over parents um
42:10and you know there are major there are
42:12significant speech concerns over this as
42:14well again with the compelled speech
42:15except um element the proposed rule
42:18defined actable harassment in a way
42:20where it's um there is in place a
42:22Supreme Court decision called Davis fan
42:23Ry this is from 1999 um that says that
42:26um harassment has to be so severe
42:28pervasive and objectionably offensive
42:31that it interferes with the students's
42:32educational um educational experience
42:36never in my life would I have thought
42:37that one word would be so important but
42:39the Biden people and also the Obama
42:41people had interpreted they had changed
42:42that and to or and so when you go from
42:44severe pervasive and objection offensive
42:47which is you know kind of a totality of
42:49events a really hostile environment to
42:51severe pervasive or then suddenly it can
42:54be one time Suddenly It's you say one
42:56thing and so so humor satire parody I'm
42:59religious you know all of those things
43:01suddenly a one-off example can be a
43:03reason that a student can claim that
43:05they've been discriminated on the basis
43:06of their gender identity and sexual
43:08orientation and boom then the kid is
43:10caught um and so that really sweeps in a
43:13huge amount of protective speech which
43:14is something that's cons that that that
43:16that's concerning um the the mandering
43:18the pronouns the names the all that um
43:20and then again the Athletics saying I
43:21just very much keep on your guard
43:24because they're going to say that like
43:25we're going to punt this till later
43:27there is no way that they can actually
43:28in real life um and it's going to put
43:30frankly you guys are going to be on the
43:31front line of this because even in their
43:33proposed rule about the Athletics part
43:35of it it was like okay well it's kind of
43:37age dependent and it's kind of um at
43:39like what the sport is and so if it's a
43:41bunch of kindergarteners you know doing
43:43like playing soccer that's one thing but
43:44it's a bunch of high schoolers playing
43:46lacrosse that's another thing but you do
43:48the wrong thing and really wouldn't that
43:49suck to have a tline investigation that
43:51would subject you to the death penalty
43:52don't do the wrong thing um and right I
43:54mean you guys can read between the lines
43:56no one is really interested in having
43:58this like drawn out multi-year federal
44:00process that what would subject you to
44:02possibly losing all federal funds and so
44:04it's obviously just easier and they know
44:06that it's logical for elected officials
44:08just to say you know what the easy thing
44:09is just to fold to doj and so this is
44:11them trying to compel without compelling
44:14um and that in my mind is absolute
44:16nonsense yeah so the new rule is going
44:18to change a lot uh and what you need to
44:22sort of know at this point is there's
44:23going to be a whole lot of litigation
44:25over it uh and so there's a good chance
44:27that the rule could get enjoined and so
44:29you sort of need to follow that
44:30litigation to wait and see um and then
44:32the other aspect with respect to this
44:34parental notification at least my read
44:35of it is it just doesn't address it
44:38clearly it does there's nothing in the
44:39text that says schools have to hide
44:42things from parents there's nothing that
44:44addresses the parental notice piece of
44:46it
44:47undoubtedly uh some people will argue
44:49that it requires that but that's going
44:51to have to get litigated so and I I
44:52think there there are two other policies
44:54that the education department was
44:55advancing kind of at the same time both
44:57of which sort of went under the radar
44:58one is the Civil Rights data collection
45:00every two years schools have to report
45:02data to the federal government on
45:04violence things like that um one of the
45:06things when they proposed updating crdc
45:08in 2021 was to create a new category for
45:11student data that was being sent to the
45:12Department of updating it from male and
45:14female to male female um non-binary and
45:17so that would then give them kind of the
45:19purview to collect that information
45:21going down as the youngest kindergarten
45:22if children are non-binary my 5-year-old
45:25when my when my kids were five did not
45:26think about whether they were binary um
45:28so that's you know that's one aspect of
45:29it but that was a data collection thing
45:31the big kind of Sound and Fury about the
45:33Civil Rights data collection stuff they
45:34wanted to update was that they also
45:35wanted to stop collecting teacher on
45:37student sexual assault information which
45:39like why would anybody want that data so
45:41that that caught a lot of information no
45:42one really paid attention to this
45:43categorization part the other thing
45:45where they were doing meetings on but
45:47they didn't actually do a whole proposed
45:48rule whether they're going to change it
45:49is furpa um but they were looking at
45:51changing what privacy rights are because
45:53furpa is generally I mean and you guys
45:56generally know what furpa is right it's
45:57to protect like districts handing out
45:58kidss Social Security numbers like like
46:01personally identifiable information we
46:03have seen some districts interpret furpa
46:05as that students have privacy rights
46:07from their parents that is something
46:09that is really worrisome and that's
46:11something else that I am frightened
46:13might end up being looped into this
46:14regulation as well and so just pay
46:16attention to that because minor children
46:18should not have privacy rights from
46:19their parent and I think you know we
46:21have seen people who have speculated
46:22this is kind of the UN rights of the
46:24child Thing versus the rights of the
46:25family so I think there there are large
46:27battle is at play here um but like
46:29children should not have rights on their
46:30parent your parents are there to protect
46:31you yeah so that kind of brings my next
46:34question one of the last justifications
46:37you hear for the policy of hiding this
46:38from parents is well you know some
46:40parents might not be accepting of their
46:42own child's identity and we need to
46:44protect those children from their own
46:47parents so I was hoping just all of you
46:49could react to that because I think
46:50that's kind of the the heart of what uh
46:53motivates these policies so maybe Tammy
46:54you can go first and then Erica second
46:56and then uh Nikki
46:59last uh I would say I completely
47:01disagree with that sentiment the vast
47:04majority of the parents that I see in
47:06this fight are genuinely loving and
47:08caring parents and really just want what
47:10is best for their child they just don't
47:12want to be excluded from those
47:15decision-making conversations nor do
47:17they want the mentors that they're
47:20allowing in their children's lives or
47:22the medical professionals they're
47:23allowing in their children's lives to
47:25make their child feel empowered to keep
47:28that secret from their family it's super
47:32important that the basis of a child's
47:35life is their parents because who is
47:38going to be there for that child after
47:40their education ends it most certainly
47:42is not going to be any of the board
47:43members in this room that's going to be
47:45there for my daughter when she turns 17
47:47or 18 and graduates from high school it
47:49is my responsibility and obligation to
47:51ensure that I am raising my child to the
47:53best of my ability and the only way that
47:55I can do that is if I can work alongside
47:58the medical professionals and the
47:59Educators that have time with my child
48:03so to come from a stance assuming that
48:05parents are Bad actors when they have
48:08not displayed that to you that really
48:10hinders a child's ability to foster a
48:13safe and loving environment within the
48:15community and their own home if that's
48:17what they're being taught by their
48:18educational
48:25professionals to to piggyback on you uh
48:29because we do agree I think
48:30substantially so one of the rhetorical
48:32questions I've asked in this uh
48:34conversation sometimes about these
48:36secrecy policies is okay so School
48:38District a you have this policy you're
48:41going to quote protect these children
48:43from their potentially abusive parents
48:46where's the
48:48offramp where's the offramp what do you
48:51do you do this for a while I have over
48:55and over and over again unseen Carnage
48:58harm to children done by perpetuating
49:01this double life where the children are
49:04essentially tacitly encouraged to lie to
49:07their
49:08parents that does not lead to a good
49:11place okay and as much as I support uh
49:15teachers and schools from helping kids
49:18where are these kids in the
49:20summer when the school year ends where
49:23are these kids when they're 17 18 so I I
49:26just think it's impossible to justify
49:30longterm and I I argued that I don't
49:33think it's it's uh appropriate short
49:35term for a lot of reasons I I also like
49:39Tammy uh believe that most uh most
49:44parents the overwhelming majority of
49:47parents only want what's best for their
49:50children how can we deprive them of
49:52weighing in on what's best for their own
49:54children and what gives a school
49:57district the
50:00um justification for thinking that the
50:03Judgment by a teacher who has known this
50:07child for a short period of time is to
50:10be is to supplant the Judgment of
50:12parents who who H biologically and in
50:16and uh in law are charged with the
50:19health and well-being of their
50:22children yeah back to you Nikki how
50:24would you respond to that argument from
50:25a legal perspective obviously my
50:27panelists are correct um no you know I
50:31think the vast majority of parents are
50:33loving are supportive and certainly
50:34there are cases when families are not
50:36this is not to discount or say that that
50:38doesn't exist but also we don't make
50:40policies based on those exceptions um
50:43you know the fact is is that you have
50:45right now taxpayer funded teachers
50:47administrators implying telling teaching
50:50kids your parents might not love you if
50:52I mean that is like that is so that
50:54breaks my heart that my child might come
50:56home and think mommy's a Catholic she's
50:58not going to love me if I do something
51:00you know to put those conditions on
51:02because that is at the end of the day
51:04fundamentally destroying undermining
51:05that parent child relationship as you
51:07said I mean who is going to be there for
51:09your child when they are 22 crying on
51:10the bathroom floor it is sure as heck
51:12not going to be a superintendent right I
51:14mean and so like where do you come back
51:16from how do you rebuild that and I when
51:18we talk to parents whose kids have have
51:19gone through similar issues it's
51:21interesting because when we talk about
51:23you know litigation in in most cases the
51:25parents you know the reason one of the
51:27reasons that we're structured as
51:28membership Association and our
51:29plaintiffs are Anonymous is their first
51:31care and their first thought is and
51:33always should be repairing that
51:35relationship with their child which is
51:37so frayed and so tenuous and you know I
51:40would never Force someone into
51:41litigation if I thought that it would it
51:43would irreparably harm or damage that
51:44and yet we have schools doing that with
51:47our tax dollars and so it's I think it's
51:50unconscionable all right so
51:57last question for all of you uh very
51:59open-ended we have a room full of uh
52:01school board members that is giving you
52:03their full attention so is there any
52:05kind of final message you want to leave
52:06them with uh uh that you want to say
52:10about this topic so anybody that wants
52:12to can go
52:13first you go ahead Nikki I'm like
52:15blanking right now um I mean thank you
52:17guys for caring about this this is like
52:19I just looking at kind of the tips that
52:20we have received a parents defending
52:21education over the past like three years
52:23this has been the majority of it I mean
52:25all of last year all of this year this
52:27is front of mine because it permeates
52:28everything it permeates curriculum it
52:30permeates field trips sporting events um
52:33yeah I mean watching kids be suspended
52:34for having t-shirts saying they're only
52:36two genders like this is an issue that
52:38is not going away and so it is going to
52:41continue to be something that is burning
52:42white hot um but no I mean we have done
52:45polling across this issue you know like
52:47concerns about this span racial line
52:49span political lines because parents do
52:51love their children and they are really
52:53deeply distressed that there are people
52:55who are trying to take their children
52:57away from them and tell them that
52:59they're bad parents um and so you know
53:01you are even though it is hard and there
53:02will be people who will stand up at your
53:03Schoolboard meetings and scream at you
53:05know that the vast majority of Americans
53:07are on your side in
53:10this I would leave you with this you all
53:14are in a very powerful position you can
53:18decide to make a policy to always defer
53:21issues like this to the parents and not
53:23cut them out you're not only protecting
53:25the children in the families in your
53:27community but you're also protecting
53:29your staff from having to follow
53:31practices that they might not agree with
53:33a large portion of teachers and
53:36Educators wrapped up in this as well as
53:38administrators do not believe in the
53:40practice of affirming children but are
53:43they going to do that if their benefits
53:45are on the line and they're not going to
53:47be able to support their family or
53:49provide housing for their children they
53:51absolutely will and that's nothing
53:53against any educator who does that the
53:55board is in a particular predicament
53:58where they can make that ruling and
54:01ensure that not only are community
54:03members Protected Their staff members
54:06are protected as well you guys can work
54:08together if you find a child and a
54:10family that supports affirmative care
54:12you can make the choice to support that
54:15but it should always be deferred to the
54:17parents you should not put staff members
54:20in a difficult situation where they have
54:22to deliver to a family we are going to
54:25disregard the medical care you want for
54:28your child and we are going to let your
54:30very
54:31distressed potentially mentally ill
54:34child make a very serious decision and
54:38cut you out of the loop I would
54:41encourage you to put this on your board
54:44meetings every month to come to a
54:46decision to make that policy to always
54:50defer to the
54:51parents that that would be my
54:55suggestion yeah in a long career as
54:57you've heard as a psychologist I've
54:59always been intent on driving uh
55:03information gathering and discussion
55:05towards
55:06consensus what do we know about a child
55:09what do we know about a child's needs
55:11right now and can we all agree what
55:14those are um my concern about these
55:17policies among others is that it drives
55:20Division and it it works against uh
55:24finding consensus because because
55:27information isn't being shared so if we
55:29share all the same information teachers
55:32parents clinicians kids even um then we
55:37have a basis to talk about okay now what
55:39do we do about it but if we're keeping
55:41siloed information that's not going to
55:44help us to drive towards a common
55:47purpose and a common um way to to uh
55:52intervene Let's uh thank our panel for
55:55being here we got um

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