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Wilfred M. McClay | Land of Hope: An Invitation to the Great American Story — Transcript

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0:04welcome to Hillsdale colleges campus
0:06here in Washington DC this is the Allen
0:08P Kirby Center for Constitutional
0:10studies and citizenship I am Matthew
0:13Spalding I run hills dales operations
0:17back here in Washington DC I'm also the
0:19Dean of our soon-to-be opening Graduate
0:22School of Government
0:23here in Washington see so you can watch
0:26for that we have a great topic this
0:28evening and a great and dear friend
0:31speaking to us that I'm happy to have
0:33join us our topic is growth both
0:35timeless and timely as it turns out it's
0:39timely because how we understand
0:41ourselves our history and our continuing
0:44purpose is at the heart of what makes us
0:46a nation now the American story is
0:49taught in our schools is crucial to how
0:51citizens are formed and thus to the
0:53future of our country and it's great
0:57story right now our schools don't seem
1:00to be doing a good job at that
1:03indeed many are quite hostile to the
1:06American story itself this debate about
1:09America its past and whether we should
1:12be patriotic towards it is now engaged
1:15in a public debate not that it has been
1:19engaged before but it seems to be a
1:21little bit more direct and partisan and
1:26intense shall we say America's past in
1:30public defense of it is a stuff it turns
1:32out of hatred and racism in white
1:35supremacy yet I don't hear much in that
1:39public debate that doesn't go back to
1:42the deeper problem of what the leading
1:44scholars and textbooks have been
1:46teaching our students but the last thing
1:50we need like we all agree is another
1:54history book
1:58I'm sorry to say but we what we do need
2:04and what we long needed is a clear and
2:06compelling narrative of the great
2:08American story an honest account that is
2:12also compelling and inspiring for
2:14students but for us too and I think we
2:20have one bill McClay is an American
2:24historian he's an award-winning author
2:26and teacher he's received his BA from
2:29st. John's College and his PhD in
2:31history from Johns Hopkins he currently
2:33serves as the GT and Libby Blankenship
2:36chair in history of Liberty at the
2:39University of Oklahoma he's held
2:42numerous positions around here and
2:44elsewhere the Woodrow Wilson Center
2:46international center for scholars he was
2:49a senior senior fellow at the Trinity
2:50forum and a senior fellow at the ethics
2:53and Public Policy Center he's the author
2:56of many books including why place
2:59matters geography identify identity and
3:02civic life in the modern America a
3:05student's guide to US history and the
3:09masterless self and society and American
3:11in moderate America which won the the
3:14Kirti award of the organization of
3:16American Historians for the best book in
3:19American intellectual history he has
3:22also recently penned a new introduction
3:24to an edition of Russell Kirk's concise
3:26concise guide to conservatism and now
3:30his written land of hope an invitation
3:33to the great American story just
3:37published by our good friends at
3:39encounter books and this fall I'm happy
3:44to announce Bill will be teaching an
3:46online course centered around the block
3:49for Hillsdale College
3:56but it shouldn't prevent you from buying
3:59the book because there's all students
4:02know to do well in class you need to buy
4:04the book please join me in welcoming
4:07good friend bill McClay
4:18Thank You Man and by the way everything
4:20I know about George Washington I know
4:22from Matt Spaulding so you can for
4:26whatever it's worth well it's wonderful
4:32to be here and I have to say at the
4:35outset that I have a phalanx of my
4:39former students here in the front row
4:40who are going to be scrutinizing every
4:45word I say and so I feel very much as if
4:48I better be on my game okay this this is
4:52a textbook that we're talking about here
4:55and and many people have asked me why on
5:00earth did you do this why did you write
5:03a textbook and it's of course the
5:06assumption is that I'm going to make
5:07lots of money well we'll see about that
5:10but that given the fact that I was I'm
5:14going against the grain of a great deal
5:17of academic publishing textbook
5:21publishing pedagogical practice and so
5:25on that's not really my expectation but
5:28I wanted to write a book that was
5:32directed at young people of young people
5:37of all ages but and actually I've been
5:40astonished and how well the book has
5:42done in the trade market because
5:45actually we've only begun trying to sell
5:48it to schools so I hope that's that's a
5:52good augury
5:53but I wrote it with young people in mind
5:56with the kind of account that I would
6:00want for myself for my children for
6:03other people's children not as the
6:07be-all and end-all not as a
6:09comprehensive narrative I didn't mean it
6:12as my version of the Aeneid for America
6:16or anything like that it is it is more
6:18modestly as the subtitle says an
6:20invitation and and not something that's
6:25meant to be definitive or pretends to be
6:28definitive but it is a story
6:30it is an account of American history
6:32that is rendered in narrative form that
6:35tries I'll read you some passages before
6:37this is all done to give you a feel for
6:39what I tried to do stylistically another
6:44reason why I did it is that Matt
6:47mentioned when he introduced me that I
6:49had written something called the
6:51students guide to US history
6:54probably 15 years ago or so and 4i aside
6:57books and it's part of a wonderful
6:59series that they they do on the
7:03disciplines student guides to various
7:05disciplines and some of the people
7:07carving Mansfield on political theory I
7:09mean you can't beat that
7:11John Lukacs the late John Lukacs on
7:14history historiography and in various
7:17others and so they're really good they
7:20did kind of you know have to scrape down
7:22to get me for doing US history but but
7:26it's actually been a pretty steady
7:28seller for them and there was a period
7:31of time which I hardly a week went by
7:33that I didn't get a message from
7:35somebody saying I love your student
7:37guide but you don't recommend a textbook
7:40why is that and you know what getting
7:44fifty hundred of these over a period of
7:47time I began to think you know maybe
7:48they have a point and I always wrote
7:50back the same thing I didn't recommend a
7:52textbook because I didn't think there
7:53was one I could recommend I said I kind
7:57of like Paul Johnson's book through the
8:00American people but it has some some
8:03problems in some asymmetries and you
8:06know it isn't the be-all and end-all
8:07either so I had this thought in the back
8:11of my mind that at some point you need
8:15to stop complaining and do something and
8:19contribute something I've written a lot
8:22of articles complaining about the
8:24absence of synthesis in American
8:27historiography the fragmentation of the
8:29field and at some point you just have to
8:36put up or shut up and try to do
8:39something more integrative more
8:40synthetic more holistic to bring some
8:45kind of order out of the chaos so all of
8:49these things were in the back of my mind
8:51when Rodger Kimball approached me about
8:55this this wasn't something I initiated
8:56entirely on my own it's something I'd
8:58been thinking about and Rodger Kimball
9:01who's the publisher of encounter books
9:03approached me about it and he managed to
9:06catch me at a weak moment it was a
9:08Sunday afternoon
9:10Rodger does business on Sunday he's the
9:12only person I know who does that he
9:14called me on the phone and I was in a
9:16very mellow mood you know I was feeling
9:19very Sabbath oriented and kind of kindly
9:22disposed to the entire human race and
9:25and satisfied with myself you know after
9:31repenting a whole lot earlier in the day
9:33and he said he talked me into it I
9:37agreed I have the phone told my wife I
9:39agreed to do this are you out of
9:41your mind so so I went on with it and
9:46and I started looking and more seriously
9:49at the the other text books that were
9:51out there and and I felt more and more
9:53strongly the need I'll talk about this
9:56more in a minute the need for something
9:58else something different say a few words
10:03about the textbook world and this this
10:07is not definitive either but it's
10:09basically dominated by the three big
10:12publishers Pearson mcgraw-hill and the
10:16Harcourt and their there are others
10:19obviously but the lion's share the
10:21market is dominated by them and that
10:24chilling dominance is likely to continue
10:29there's also I think a great deal of
10:34influence sway over the over the
10:38teaching of history exerted by authors
10:41like Howard Zinn whose people's history
10:44the United States has sold I think over
10:452 million copies and is I
10:49I to be fair and I here I quote Michael
10:53Kaizen the the historian of American
10:58social movements a man of the left that
11:01kayson's account of American history is
11:03a comic book and it's a sort of a
11:06reductive simplistic version of American
11:10history in which the good guys all wear
11:12white hats and are generally oppressed
11:14and the bad guys wear black hats and
11:17generally hold positions of authority
11:20not not you know the most full and
11:27complete guide to American history so
11:30but Howard Zinn tells a good story I
11:34think any of you who've ever read Xin
11:36he's actually a very good writer and
11:39sometimes writing fairy tales can be
11:42more more rewarding in in terms of the
11:46prose then trying to render a
11:48complicated morally tangled account
11:51which is what our history is anyway I
11:55what I wanted to mention and this just
11:57came up this is breaking news yesterday
12:01I read in one of the education online
12:05publications inside higher education
12:07that Pearson has decided to go all
12:10digital with their textbooks fifteen
12:14hundred titles which presumably will
12:16include their history titles and they
12:20will be you know completely they won't
12:22be complete you can get the print
12:24edition on demand but clearly that over
12:28time will fade out because of the
12:30expense and because of the fact the
12:32digital version will be updated
12:34constantly and so students will be
12:38required to in institutions will be
12:41required to offer the latest version
12:44latest and greatest version of these
12:47constantly updated texts so the pearsons
12:53actually been fairly honest about what
12:57they're trying to do they're really
12:58trying to drive the secondary bookmark
13:01out of business eBay and and various
13:05others resellers of books and even the
13:09rental book market which is very strong
13:11in higher education now they say what
13:16they want to promote is a greater degree
13:18of interactivity with students
13:21pedagogical progress but I think it's
13:25very clear that in the long run and the
13:28long run may not be too far off
13:32institutions that adopt Pearson books
13:35will be required to to restrict their
13:40students access to only things that are
13:43on the Pearson platform so the books
13:49will cease to be a factor and the words
13:54will be written on sort of the
13:57equivalent of digital sand constantly
14:00subject to revision and then revision
14:03after that and then revision after that
14:05it's a sort of Orwellian
14:07prospect back in the early years of
14:10printing printers had a saying that they
14:13would often mount in their in their
14:17print shop so
14:18litora scripts of MANET which means in
14:21Latin the the written word remains which
14:25i think is actually a beautiful
14:26beautiful saying but when a civilization
14:31such as ours which has been defined by
14:34books you know we are Christians and
14:38Jews are the people of the book we now
14:43will be people of the screen people who
14:46are tied to the ever changing ever fluid
14:51presentation of the past and other
14:54subject areas of their discipline areas
14:56by by the nature of digital technology
15:00so this is part of the environment into
15:04which land of hope came comes and I'm
15:11definitely swimming against the tide
15:14encounter is swimming against the tide
15:16where we want wanted to produce
15:18something of enduring value something
15:21that has a quality of permanence about
15:24it that you know it's been a long time
15:27since I've heard anyone speak of
15:29textbooks being venerable they so that
15:35may be too much to shoot for that that
15:36will be something that readers will
15:39decide whether they venerate it or not
15:41but that's what we were shooting for I
15:44want to say a few things about encounter
15:47because a number of people were because
15:53I had people who are really surprised
15:56and amazed that I wanted to do this in
15:58the first place and then when I told
15:59them that I wanted to do it that I was
16:00doing with encounter they were they were
16:02even a mildly appalled and said what
16:05they're not a textbook publisher there
16:07you know and there there's all kinds of
16:10problems and what I found was in fact
16:14and I this is not a proposition that one
16:18could confirm empirically but I don't
16:21think I could have written the book any
16:23other way with any other publisher
16:25encounter did not subject me to the
16:30vetting of textbook committees in key
16:33states Texas California they the vetting
16:37of interest groups of pressure groups of
16:40stakeholders as we like to call them no
16:45I was all by myself in my study writing
16:48this thing I didn't have any research
16:50assistants I basically didn't even talk
16:53to anybody my students will confirm I
16:55never talked about this I was I was
16:56going doing this in secret
16:58little mole in the night and I did it
17:04all by myself I wrote every word it
17:06reflects my outlook Roger
17:09Kimball and the people it encountered I
17:12would say it actually bothered me at
17:15times that they didn't interfere at all
17:17I'm so used to editors you know kind of
17:19looking over my shoulder and saying well
17:21you know you don't want to say that and
17:22or
17:24suggesting even more strongly that the
17:27perspective I've taken is not quite what
17:30we want and this might have set some
17:32people or whatever never never once did
17:36they interject themselves and and and
17:39and they didn't the editing process was
17:43fairly light I would I wouldn't have
17:45minded it being a little more
17:47heavy-handed there are places where I
17:48cringe a little bit now reading it but
17:52but but on the whole it was a very
17:55respectful edit so this was something
17:59that didn't go through the meat grinder
18:01or the food processor that most text
18:05books go through and I'm very grateful
18:10to Roger Kimble into his staff for
18:14giving me this freedom and and I think
18:18the book is better as a result of that
18:20it does it does reflect for better or
18:22worse the perspective of an author
18:24rather than being something assembled if
18:28in effect by committee
18:29and by a rather disheveled committee at
18:33that I'm actually convinced that many
18:37textbooks are not read by anyone and I
18:42mean the people in the publishing houses
18:44don't read it the the authors the big
18:47name historians who were on the the
18:49cover I don't think they've read the
18:52things that are being published in their
18:53name I'm not sure who was reading them
18:57but but but the the biggest surprise I
19:01had in this whole process and and and I
19:03there's about 25 text books piled up in
19:06my study at home
19:09was that the real the the the problem
19:11was less with ideological imbalance
19:14there is that especially when you get
19:17into the period after the night after
19:201960 or so but the real problem is these
19:23these books are unreadable and it's no
19:26reason no wonder to me that young people
19:28don't want to read them I don't want to
19:30read them and they it's it's a disgrace
19:35these books often cost
19:37fifty dollars or more and they they
19:41appear not to have been edited for
19:44reading comprehension let alone you know
19:47fact-checking so I may be getting a
19:51little carried away here but but but it
19:54really is very bad and one of the things
19:59I was worried about and some of my
20:03colleagues on the university level
20:05looked at chapters and I said well you
20:09know this is all you've got everything
20:11right here but you know this is reading
20:12levels way too high for high school
20:15students well I also tested the same
20:18chapters out on my former students or
20:20our high school teachers and they all
20:22said oh this is fine this is much better
20:25than what we've been giving them text
20:27books by X Y & Z so we in some ways we
20:32underestimate the capacity of our young
20:36people to read books
20:38if interesting books are put in front of
20:40them if books that can grab them and
20:43compel them that have a narrative thrust
20:46to them that that fire their imagination
20:49that that that conveyed to him to them
20:53that history is not just an inert
20:56recitation of facts but it's a it's a
20:59moral enterprise it's a task of
21:01reflection it's uh but it's a part of
21:02what it means to be human to think about
21:05the past to think about the stories of
21:08the past okay
21:14let me just talk a little bit about the
21:17book in terms of some of the some of the
21:20emphases that I bring to it and these
21:25are things that run through the book as
21:27a whole I like to think is like to think
21:31in musical terms that it's sort of like
21:34a Rondo you know it's a multiple Rondo
21:38there are several Rondo themes maybe
21:39about five of them that keep popping up
21:42and recurring through the text sort of a
21:48fugle Rondo
21:49if there is such a thing and well and
21:54and most of these themes are encompassed
21:57in the title itself Land of Hope and
21:59invitation to the great American story
22:01which is the one element of the book
22:04where I did have a lot of wrestling with
22:07the the publisher because they they you
22:11know publishers want certain words
22:14certain phrases that are going to help
22:16them sell the book and I bought them on
22:19on that I think I think I'm pretty much
22:22won I got the title I wanted so let me
22:27just break it down first there it's a
22:30Land of Hope land that that's certainly
22:35an element in my outlook on American
22:39history the America is not just an idea
22:44America is a concrete entity a nation a
22:49nation that has a history a very
22:52particular history and that if we're to
22:56understand is it's not enough to sort of
22:59understand certain principles as
23:02important as that is we have to
23:04understand how those principles became
23:07instantiated or not instantiated as the
23:09case may be how their worked through and
23:12worked out how they're developed how
23:14they they they they come to be dominant
23:20at least we hope in in in our national
23:24life and maybe to to dominant in some
23:27cases so I America's definitely about
23:32ideas and but in America is not simply
23:35an idea America is a land a land with a
23:40venerable history with I think
23:45particularly of those who are at
23:49Arlington National Cemetery and and
23:52graveyards of those who've given their
23:54lives for the country the history of
23:56sacrifices on behalf of the country
23:58these are things that bind us to it in
24:02ways that go beyond
24:03questions of ideas or principles their
24:08particularity z' and not abstractions
24:09that's maybe another way to put it
24:12so ii hope land of hope and several
24:21people said why is it lame why is it not
24:23Land of Hope and Glory you know the
24:25angular file types and then people so
24:27always gonna be a lot about Obama in
24:29this book this is actually very little
24:31about things after 1992 which I will
24:35explain in a minute but part of what I
24:39meant to do by emphasizing hope is it's
24:44complicated and I think you see the
24:47working out of the complexity over the
24:50course of the book is that that
24:53fundamentally hope is it's a spiritual
24:56attribute it's an attribute it's a it's
24:59a quality of soul something that's not
25:01explicable and strictly material terms
25:05but it is a characteristic of a kind of
25:09the country that we seek to rise above
25:15or transcend or move beyond that which
25:19is given that that what's get our given
25:22state in life is not the final word
25:25about it and and so that we have that
25:28sort of striving aspect which I argue
25:32goes back to the very beginnings in fact
25:34this is a little bit fanciful but then
25:36in the first chapter I even talked about
25:40the the the the fact that the Western
25:42Hemisphere so far as we know has no
25:45truly native peoples in it that that so
25:50far as we know twenty thirty forty
25:53thousand years ago the first migrants to
25:55the Western Hemisphere came over the
25:57Bering Strait and and through filtered
25:59down to people the continent and and
26:04then we have they from the other
26:05direction
26:07the Erickson's and other explorers
26:10coming from Europe and that there's a
26:12long tradition in European myth if you
26:17will literature of a of a a mystic land
26:24in the East a place of renewal the
26:26Elysian Fields Atlanta so on it's a it's
26:30a very well established control within
26:34European thought an anticipation of
26:37America before the fact there too you
26:40have a notion of hope hope is the
26:43prospect of redemption the prospect of
26:46starting the world over again starting
26:49life over again a new Zion and errand
26:53into the wilderness the language of New
26:55England Puritanism so I think all of
27:00this and then it that becomes
27:02transmogrified into more secular
27:05understandings of hope but still it's
27:09it's it's an elemental part of the
27:12makeup of the soul of America story
27:21invitation the great American story and
27:24that emphasis on story is something that
27:27I insist on right from the start that
27:30narratives are an essential part of the
27:34way that we human beings make sense of
27:36the world we live our lives suspended in
27:40their it is often that we don't
27:41completely understand these webs of
27:43signification that upholds us that that
27:47define the way we see the world the way
27:49we aspire in the world so and in fact
27:54let me read you I'm gonna read some more
27:57things but I have a little discussion of
28:00this right early on in the book so this
28:03is the right moment to read it the
28:08impulse to write this is on page X I for
28:12those of you who have the book the first
28:13page of the introduction yes I it's 11
28:19for you landlubbers yes
28:22about five four or five lines up from
28:24the bottom the impulse to write history
28:28and organize our world around stories is
28:30intrinsic to us as human beings we are
28:33at our core remembering and story making
28:37creatures and stories are one of the
28:40chief ways we find meaning in the flow
28:42of events what we call history and
28:45literature are merely the refinement and
28:47intensification of that basic human
28:49impulse that need and then I go on to
28:54say the word need is not an exaggeration
28:56for the human animal meaning is not a
28:59luxury it is a necessity without it we
29:02perish historical consciousness is to
29:05civilize Society but memory is to
29:09individual identity that's a phrase
29:12worth pausing over but without memory
29:16without the stories by which our
29:17memories are carried forward we cannot
29:20say who or what we are without them our
29:24life and thought dissolve into a
29:25meaningless unrelated rush of events
29:28without them we cannot do the most human
29:31of things we cannot learn use language
29:33pass on knowledge raise children
29:36establish rules of conduct engage in
29:39science or dwell harmoniously in society
29:42without them we cannot govern ourselves
29:46nor can we have a sense of the future as
29:48a time we know will come because we
29:50remember that other tomorrow's have come
29:53and gone this next sentence I think
29:57applies to some of what I see around me
30:00today a culture without memory will
30:02necessarily be barbarous and easily
30:04tyrannize even if it's technologically
30:07advanced the incessant waves of daily
30:10events will occupy all our attention and
30:13defeat our efforts to connect past
30:15present and future thereby diverting us
30:18from an understanding of the human
30:20things that unfold in time including the
30:23paths of our own lives forgive me I just
30:26one little bit more here the stakes were
30:29beautifully expressed in the words of
30:30the great Jewish writer Isaac Bashevis
30:32singer
30:34when a day passes it is no longer there
30:38what remains of it nothing more than a
30:42story if stories weren't told or books
30:45weren't written man would live like the
30:48beasts only for the day the whole world
30:53all human life is one long story oh I
31:00can't stop there singer was right singer
31:04was right as individuals as communities
31:06as countries we are nothing more than
31:09flotsam and jetsam without the stories
31:11in which we find our lives meaning there
31:15are stories of which we are already a
31:16part whether we know it or not there the
31:20basis of our common life the webs of
31:22meaning and which are shared identities
31:24are suspended ok they're all stopped so
31:29I'm very interested in this book in sort
31:33of cultivating story the the reflective
31:38attitude towards the path mediated
31:41through story and story is a way that we
31:44remember that we that we stay in touch
31:49with the past that the past becomes
31:51present to us and the president becomes
31:54informed by the past its and their
32:00stories and their stories of course
32:03Andre Malraux
32:04the great French writer and resistance
32:07figure somewhere I've never been able
32:10find where he said this but somewhere he
32:12says what is a man a miserable pile of
32:15secrets and I well that's one way of
32:18thinking about a biography all right and
32:21there there are biographies and
32:23biographers out there who seem to swear
32:26by that understanding that a person is a
32:30what a person really is is what he or
32:32she hides what they don't disclose what
32:37they attempt to pass off in another way
32:44but I think that there's another way to
32:46think about
32:47biography there's another way to think
32:48about history and and instead of
32:50thinking of it in this negative way as a
32:54compilation of secrets of things that
32:59are missing and that is to give I think
33:03credence to the mythic dimension to the
33:05aspirational dimension of history and
33:08that's one of the things I try to do in
33:10the book without blinking the fact that
33:12we've often done terrible things that we
33:15have not been a land of hope for
33:17everyone and that hope is as I
33:20repeatedly say in the book a
33:22double-edged quality because to be to be
33:27a land of Hope is also to be a land of
33:29disappointment a land of frustration a
33:32land of disillusionment even and we
33:35experience all these things we wouldn't
33:37experience them if we weren't a land of
33:40Hope if we didn't hew to that that
33:45doctrine and finally invitation this is
33:49an invitation the great American story
33:51this is sort of a way of saying
33:53communicating I'm not pretending that
33:55this is the definitive American history
33:57that that has every answer to every
34:00question one of the things that was so
34:03frustrating about writing this is that
34:05you I kept coming across things I
34:08couldn't go into without losing the
34:11narrative thread you've got to throw
34:13things out you've got to throw a lot out
34:15and everybody who's ready to said you
34:18know that was I really like this but why
34:20didn't you say something about X and you
34:24know I all I can say is you know I
34:25thought about that it hurt when I had to
34:28leave that out and does that satisfy you
34:30at least at least I was in pain that I
34:32didn't but it is it and I think of its
34:36triage and the lifeboat you know you
34:38have to throw you know your second best
34:41friend out in order to keep the thing
34:44from sinking so you have to make very
34:46hard judgments but but it's also an
34:49invitation in the sense that I do want
34:52it to lead I wanted to catch people's
34:55interest I want young people
34:58particularly and all your young people
35:01- - - want to go further to want to
35:05supersede what I've done here and to
35:09make American history the the the the
35:11fascinating thing that it intrinsically
35:13is but that we I think have deprived it
35:17of that interest okay let me it there's
35:22several passages I wanted to read and
35:24then we'll stop and I'll take questions
35:26but I just partly i want to give you a
35:29sense of what i try to do with some
35:31familiar maybe maybe familiar I hope
35:34familiar parts of American history
35:36before I do that I want to read words
35:38that are not mine but the the the the
35:42epigraph page there for those of you who
35:44have the book it's alright this is there
35:48were two things that I knew I wanted to
35:50have in this book before I wrote
35:53anything else one was the title at land
35:55of hope the subtitle is what we fought
35:57over but they let me have Land of Hope
35:58and this epigraph by John Dos Passos who
36:04was a great American novelist a great
36:07American writer man of the of the
36:09radical left in his youth who moved to
36:14the sensible right let me read this it's
36:21from an essay called the use of the past
36:24it seems so relevant to me there's a bit
36:27by it was written in 1941 and you know
36:30it's a lot going on in 1941 but every
36:35generation rewrites the past in easy
36:37times history is more or less of an
36:39ornamental art but in times of danger we
36:43are driven to the written record by
36:44pressing need to find answers to the
36:47riddles of today we need to know what
36:49kind of firm ground other men belonging
36:52to generations before us have found to
36:53stand on in spite of changing conditions
36:56of life they were not very different
36:59from ourselves their thoughts were the
37:02grandfather's of our thoughts I love
37:04that phrase their thoughts for the
37:06grandfathers of our thoughts they
37:08managed to meet situations as difficult
37:10as those we have to face to meet them
37:12sometimes lightheartedly and it's some
37:14measure to make
37:15their hopes prevail we need to know how
37:18they did it in times of change in danger
37:22when there's a quicksand of fear under
37:24men's reasoning a sense of continuity
37:27with generation has gone before can
37:30stretched like a lifeline across the
37:32scary present and get us past that idiot
37:36delusion of the exceptional now that
37:40blocks good thinking
37:42that is why in times like ours when old
37:44institutions are caving in and being
37:47replaced by new institutions not
37:49necessarily in accord with most men's
37:51preconceived hopes political thought has
37:55to look backwards as well as forwards
37:58isn't that marvelous
37:59I mean if so much here but one of the
38:02things I want to emphasize this idiot
38:04delusion of the exceptional now this is
38:07one of the things I find in teaching
38:09it's very hard to get younger people
38:12interested in the past because they
38:15think we're living in an unprecedented
38:16time that and we in the times we live in
38:20are so unprecedented the technologies
38:22that we carry around in our pockets are
38:24so transformative in their character
38:28that there's really no point in and
38:32looking at what went on in the 17th
38:34century the 19th century that's all been
38:37superseded and it's it's an ill-informed
38:41I mean it's a it's a way of justifying
38:44not learning anything about the things
38:46you already don't know anything about
38:48but but it is I think a real conviction
38:52and it's something that that this
38:54endless sort of parade of sensation and
38:59media images and so on that in which
39:02everything is always being succeeded by
39:05something else nothing is permanent
39:07nothing's enduring that feeds that and
39:11reinforces that sense that we do live in
39:13an exceptional now capital end now that
39:17blocks good thinking
39:22let me I'm going to skip I'm gonna skip
39:25this one because I
39:30here a lot of times people are
39:33interested how do I handle some of the
39:34really sticky difficult questions
39:38it's a slavery Native American it's that
39:41sort of thing and here's an example this
39:45is the end of the chapter that deals
39:48with the Constitutional Convention and
39:53this will give you a sense of the kind
39:56of reasoning I engage in at the time of
40:00the Constitutional Convention the
40:02institution of race-based slavery was
40:04deeply enmeshed in one segment of the
40:06national economy despite all the ways
40:09it's very existence seemed to stand in
40:11glaring contradiction to the national
40:13commitment liberty equality and
40:15self-rule there was real bite to the
40:19mocking question fired at Americans in
40:211775 by the British writer Samuel
40:24Johnson how is it that we hear the
40:27loudest yelps for Liberty among the
40:29drivers of Negroes close quote it was an
40:33excellent question
40:35particularly if one kept in mind how
40:37many of the prominent founders including
40:39Thomas Jefferson and George Washington
40:40with themselves owners of slaves how we
40:45wonder today could such otherwise
40:47enlightened and exemplary individuals
40:49have been so blind to the fundamental
40:51humanity of those they confined how
40:55could they have made their peace with
40:56practices so utterly contradictory to
40:59all they stood for there is no easy
41:03answer to these questions but surely a
41:05part of the answer is that each of us is
41:07born into a world that we did not make
41:09and there's only with the greatest
41:12effort and often at very great cost that
41:15we're ever able to change that world for
41:17the better
41:18moral sensibilities are not static they
41:21develop and deepen over time and general
41:24moral progress is very slow part of the
41:28study of history involves a training of
41:29the imagination learning to see
41:32historical actors as speaking and acting
41:34in their own times rather than ours and
41:37learning to see even our heroes as an
41:40all too human
41:41texture of admirable and unanimity x'
41:44people like us who may like us be
41:47constrained by circumstances beyond
41:50their control and then I conclude this
41:54chapter saying let's see the lamb bivolo
41:58this is regarding slavery built into the
42:01structure of the Constitution we're
42:02almost certainly unavoidable in the
42:04short term in order to achieve an
42:06effective political union of the nation
42:08what we need to understand is how the
42:11original compromise no longer became
42:13acceptable to increasing numbers of
42:15Americans especially in one part of the
42:18Union and why slavery a ubiquitous
42:20institution in human history came to be
42:23seen not merely in as an unfortunate
42:25evil but a sinful impediment to human
42:28progress a stain upon an entire nation
42:31we live today on the other side of a
42:34great transformation and moral
42:35sensibility a transformation that was
42:38taking place but was not yet completed
42:40in the very years the United States was
42:43being formed there's more but two other
42:54things this is this is a Lincoln and I
43:00talked about the fact that Lincoln of
43:03course had to run for re-election in the
43:05middle of the Civil War and and and for
43:08a very long time in 1864 he thought he
43:11was certain to lose and I talked about
43:17the reasons for that we let me just pick
43:23it up here we forget or are unaware of
43:25the depth and breadth of Lincoln's
43:26unpopularity during his entire time in
43:29office few great leaders have been more
43:32comprehensively disdained or loathed or
43:35underestimated
43:36allô southern view of him of course was
43:38the expected but it was widely shared
43:40north of the mason-dixon line as the
43:43lincoln biographer David Donald put it
43:45Lincoln's own associates thought him
43:48quote a simple susan apologies to any
43:51Susan's out there that's it
43:52Oh Susi's I know we're all complicated
43:55but a simple susan a baboon a nameless
43:59punster a smutty Joker he was in the
44:02view of the abolitionist wendell
44:03phillips a huckster in politics a
44:06first-rate second-rate man George
44:09McClellan openly disdained him as a
44:12well-meaning baboon McClellan him being
44:14his opponent in the 1864 election and
44:18here's my comment on this we need to
44:21remember this is generally how history
44:23happens it is not like a Hollywood movie
44:26in which the background music swells and
44:29the crowd and the room applauds and
44:31leaves to its feet as the orator
44:33dispenses timeless words and the camera
44:36pans the room full of smiling faces in
44:39real history the background music does
44:41not swell the trumpets do not sound and
44:44the carping critics often seem louder
44:47than the applause the leader or the
44:50soldier has to wonder whether he's
44:51acting in vain whether the criticisms
44:54are of others are in fact true whether
44:57time will judge him harshly whether his
45:00sacrifice will count for anything
45:02few great leaders have felt this burden
45:04more completely than Lincoln and then
45:08finally and I think this has something
45:11to say about our current attitude
45:17towards the past at least in some parts
45:20of the population those who want to kind
45:23of go out and and do a Robespierre you
45:26know cleansing us of all remnants of the
45:30past to which we find objectionable
45:32today in the era of ultimate truths that
45:39was ironic this is the end of the Civil
45:44War on April 9th 1865 after last flurry
45:51of feudal resistance Lee General Lee
45:54robert e lee face facts and arranged to
45:57meet grant ulysses s grant Union General
46:01in chief and a brick home in the village
46:03of Abu Maddux courthouse
46:05jigna to surrender his army he could not
46:09formally surrender the whole Confederacy
46:11but the surrender of his army would
46:13trigger the surrender of all others and
46:15so it represented the end of the
46:17Confederate cause it was a poignant
46:20scene dignified and restrained and sad
46:24as when a terrible storm that has raged
46:27and blown has finally exhausted itself
46:30leaving behind a strange and reverent
46:33calm purged of all passion the two men
46:37had known one another in the Mexican War
46:39and had not seen one another in nearly
46:4120 years Lee arrived first wearing his
46:45elegant dress uniform soon to be joined
46:48by Grant clad in blood spattered sac
46:51coat his trousers tucked into his muddy
46:54boots grant often dressed like this he
46:58was kind of a slob they showed one
47:02another a deep and respectful courtesy
47:04and grant generously allowed Lee's
47:06officers to keep their sidearms and the
47:09men to keep their horses and take them
47:12home for the spring planting none would
47:15be arrested or charged with treason four
47:19days later when Lee's army of 28,000 men
47:22marched in to surrender their arms and
47:25colors general joshua l chamberlain of
47:28maine a hero of gettysburg was present
47:32at the ceremony he later wrote of his
47:35observations that day reflecting on his
47:37soldierly respect for the men before him
47:39each passing by and stacking his arms
47:42men who only days before had been his
47:46mortal foes and I quote from Chamberlain
47:51before us in proud humiliation stood the
47:54embodiment of manhood men whom neither
47:56toils and sufferings nor the fact of
47:59death nor disaster nor hopelessness
48:02could bend from their resolve standing
48:05before us now thin worn and famished but
48:10he wrecked with eyes looking level into
48:12ours
48:13waking memories that bound us together
48:15as no other bond
48:18was not such manhood to be welcomed back
48:21into a union so tested and assured on
48:26our part
48:27not a sound of trumpet more nor roll of
48:30drum nor cheer nor word nor whisper of
48:33vain glorying nor motion of man standing
48:37again at the order but an odd stillness
48:40rather and breath holding as if it were
48:44the passing of the dead now this is me
48:48such deep sympathies in a victory so
48:51heavily tinged with sadness and grief
48:54and death this war was and remains to
48:59this day America's bloodiest conflict
49:01having generated a million and a half
49:03casualties on the two sides combined and
49:06then I go on to talk about all of that
49:08for decades to come in every village in
49:11town and the land one could see men
49:13bearing the scars and mutilations of
49:16lost limbs a lingering reminder of the
49:19price they and others had paid so I
49:25guess I kind of think that if if
49:27Chamberlain's troops could find it in
49:31their heart to be that forgiving that
49:33generous we certainly ought to be
49:36towards people in the far distant past
49:40Lincoln
49:41I'll just tack on something Lincoln said
49:44on the last day before the day of his
49:47assassination April 11th
49:50he had a cabinet meeting that morning
49:53and he said these words I hope there
49:57will be no persecution no bloody work
49:59after the war's over enough lives have
50:01been sacrificed too much it's extinguish
50:04our resentment if we expect harmony and
50:07union there has been too much of a
50:09desire on the part of some of our very
50:11good friends to be masters to interfere
50:13with and dictate to those states to
50:16treat the people not as fellow citizens
50:18there's too little respect for their
50:20rights
50:20I do not sympathise in those feelings
50:23close quote
50:25of course if he had known that John
50:27Wilkes Booth was going to hammer him
50:30that night he might have had a different
50:32but and of course that event changed the
50:37complexion of everything but it is
50:39interesting to see to look back on these
50:42these characters in the past and look
50:44back on the the responses they had at
50:46the time something that you may pick up
50:50from these examples is I do use a lot of
50:53oratory I do careful analysis of
50:57important speeches some that are
50:59familiar to you like Lincoln's speeches
51:01Washington's farewell address but some
51:04that are probably not Calvin Coolidge is
51:07a wonderful speech on the 150th
51:12anniversary of the the Declaration of
51:14Independence it's a fantastic speech you
51:17know if you if you want me to I'll read
51:19it to you but I think I've read enough
51:20and of course the John Quincy Adams is
51:25similarly great speech about American
51:29foreign policy all these are things I
51:31give a lot of attention to uh so I do
51:33point back in the direction of primary
51:35sources but I excerpt the the parts that
51:41I think are going to be a particular
51:42interest and and hoped to guide the
51:45reader back towards looking at the whole
51:47thing so I don't know that I have a lot
51:52more to say at this point but I would
51:53love to have your questions so why don't
51:56I stop there
51:56and
52:06well this gentleman had his hand up
52:08almost before my last words around
52:10please wait for the mic in the beginning
52:17of your talk I think you identified a
52:19problem which I see which is in the
52:23academic world soon to be if it isn't
52:27digitized it doesn't exist yes no one is
52:31going to be back in the stacks of the
52:34college library looking for original
52:37work there only being at Google or
52:41somewhere else looking at things that
52:44happen to have been digitized your
52:47comment please oh yeah no I think that's
52:49that's true it's very hard
52:51I'm looking this direction away from my
52:53students here it's very hard to get
52:55people in college writing research
52:57papers to actually go to the library
52:58although actually it's not true any of
53:01you but but but it is generally true I
53:05mean there there's a sort of sense that
53:06if it's not available on the web then I
53:10don't really need to bother with it of
53:12course you can one wonderful thing is
53:15that that you can access very easily now
53:19scholarly articles from some of the most
53:21obscure journals that you would formerly
53:24have to trudge down to the reading room
53:26and or maybe go down in the basement and
53:28find the the 1988 edition of church
53:33history and flip through and find find
53:35something then Xerox it and take it home
53:37with you that was my graduate experience
53:39I can't imagine how much time I wasted
53:41doing that sort of thing when now you
53:43can just Bing Bing Bing and have it so
53:47that that's wonderful in a way but you
53:51know Chesterton somewhere has a saying
53:53that the effect that the problem with
53:55modern travel is it makes it easier and
53:58easier to go to places less and less
54:00worth going to and I think that's a
54:03principle that that that applies or
54:06generally in some ways you know you you
54:07you you you're going to have to do the
54:09work of discernment and just sort of
54:12sheer labor - at some point I look I I
54:15agree with you though there's sin and
54:17this is part of what I was getting
54:19the beginning is this digitisation it's
54:23a it's a mixed bag and and you know
54:26there is this sort of revenge of the
54:28analog concept out there and i i i i
54:32don't really think there's a substitute
54:35for books and even ebooks you know I
54:41have to admit I dislike Kindle I've
54:43tried to use and I don't like it but so
54:46I may have a prejudice there but but it
54:48there's something important that's lost
54:51when the the the author and publisher
54:55are not committed to the idea that the
54:58text is going to be permanent and
55:01character you know come what may you
55:03know it may be overtaken so be it but
55:07and it feels like a way you have another
55:11sort of like cellular biology where you
55:12have lots and lots of discoveries going
55:14on all the time I can see the merit of
55:16having an online kind of reference
55:19source there American history is not
55:22really changing in its broad outlines
55:26from day to day it shouldn't be so I
55:30think I think that the notion of being
55:33committed in history and then literature
55:36to some kind of notion of the integrity
55:41of the word and the weight of the word
55:44you know the the difference between the
55:48experience of writing something at a
55:50typewriter which you're you're young
55:53enough to remember that right and and
55:57sitting in the word process it's a very
55:58different thing well when I was just
56:01signing some books and I and I I get
56:04very nervous because I can't erase
56:06things after I if I misspell somebody's
56:08name
56:09you know I pretty much have to use a
56:10different book it's the same way with
56:13typing you know if you if you get
56:16something wrong I mean you can get out
56:17the correct type and all that junk but
56:19it's a mess
56:21whereas with word processors everything
56:24disappears and and it's in a way you're
56:27less careful about getting it right the
56:30first time because you know it doesn't
56:31really matter
56:32if you get it right the first time and
56:34you may have you know mister you know
56:36Google or Bill Gates or some Specter
56:39hovering over you changing your your
56:42words with audit autocorrect but and so
56:47so you don't even need to take pay
56:49attention to spelling no this is not
56:51good this do we pay a price for that
56:54though that convenience we yes sir yeah
57:01you I noticed you're a graduate of st.
57:05John's College known for their great
57:07books yes which great books influenced
57:10you or most memorable and why Wow and
57:12also should that structure of learning
57:16be adapted more by other colleges and
57:19universities that's a great question
57:22because I actually think I love st.
57:26John's and I both my kids went there and
57:31I served on the board there but I also
57:33think there there are history for one
57:37thing is almost non-existent in the
57:39curriculum at st. John's and so for me
57:42to go into history with a you know kind
57:43of a radical like a conversion
57:45experience coming out of st. John so I
57:48said I still respect what they do but it
57:52there's something lost when you don't
57:54read books in the historical context
57:56I'll give you an example my favorite
57:58example is that I I I had no idea until
58:01I graduated from st. John's and started
58:04studying history a little bit that
58:05Thomas Hobbes wrote Leviathan in the
58:09middle of a civil war you know you would
58:11think that would somebody who insisted
58:15on this kind of totalitarian sovereignty
58:19if I may put it that way
58:21he didn't just pull these ideas out of
58:23the blue he was responding the
58:25circumstances the exigent circumstances
58:27and and and I didn't get that at all and
58:31I just read the vaya --then so I I
58:35wouldn't want to see it universally
58:36adopted I also would like to see it be
58:38continued to be what it is I learned how
58:43to read carefully to read
58:46mostly from st. John's in a way I can't
58:48imagine having learned anywhere else so
58:51I kind of I'm it's like the Athens and
58:55Jerusalem problem I sort of try to hold
58:57to both of these ideals at once the st.
59:00John's close reading text textualism but
59:03also the contextualism of history as a
59:06as a discipline as a great interesting
59:09question and I think I think it would be
59:17good to for other schools to imitate the
59:20st. John you know we have a course and
59:22oh you that is a sort of st. John's e
59:25course but it also has lectures and the
59:29lecturers why I'm one of them and their
59:31two colleagues that help me with it or I
59:33help them I thought sure it's but the
59:38the course was my idea but they give a
59:44lot of historical background a
59:45biographical background you know I
59:47didn't answer you the first part of your
59:48question which which of the great books
59:49affected me the most
59:51I mean Plato Plato and Aristotle the
59:57Bible but particularly the Kierkegaard
1:00:01fear and trembling after I read fear and
1:00:04trembling that changed my whole view of
1:00:06at least at the Torah and Don Quixote
1:00:14loved Don Quixote Dostoevsky
1:00:20Oh everything by Dostoevsky I didn't
1:00:27like can't very much
1:00:30still dogs and Hegel so I could I loved
1:00:41some of the readings we did in science
1:00:43we read Newton's Principia which is
1:00:46actually quite interesting how we read
1:00:48Euclid we worked through we worked
1:00:52through all but twelve books is it of
1:00:54Euclid 1213 books
1:00:57yeah and the math tutorial the best
1:01:00thing I did at Saint John so it was
1:01:02learning Greek and I think that I
1:01:05recommend that to everyone of you all
1:01:07you young people if you haven't start
1:01:14buttons okay but Greek is better we have
1:01:20any other yeah you yes yes here you and
1:01:23the bet you in the back okay thank you
1:01:29very much for presenting your
1:01:30interesting book and as you be being an
1:01:34expert of the narrative of year of the
1:01:36American nation I want to ask you a
1:01:37question now because in the current
1:01:40politics there's this narrative that the
1:01:42America steers now back to what's this
1:01:44great times and the great value is
1:01:46there's the slogan of the current
1:01:48administration that we all know make it
1:01:50go back to this great times and now
1:01:52since since you really typed dive deep
1:01:55into what what these great times and
1:01:58shrine
1:01:58what would your evaluation be does
1:02:00America go back to those great times or
1:02:02somewhere else and this attractive labor
1:02:04has put on something which which is
1:02:06something I would it be different well I
1:02:08I see it's a great story I don't I don't
1:02:13think of a position on the is America
1:02:17great was it was it ever great you know
1:02:19you know that that's really and I don't
1:02:22mean that to be as I do think there's a
1:02:26there's there are moments of greatness
1:02:28in American history the moments of shame
1:02:30in American history but I think the
1:02:32story as a whole of this this nation
1:02:38that that sort of starts
1:02:40and I didn't yeah it it's it starts life
1:02:44in this in this faraway place at me and
1:02:49said it's a European it's a province of
1:02:51Europe in which certain elements of
1:02:55European civilization are allowed to
1:02:58flourish in a way that they never could
1:03:00on native ground so to speak and and I
1:03:05think the way the way that all of that
1:03:06that occurs that way it unfolds it's a
1:03:09magnificent story and it's not a story
1:03:12that's over yet so
1:03:19[Applause]
1:03:34thank thank you very much well uh as you
1:03:37were speaking one thing I reminded me of
1:03:40that was thinking about as you're making
1:03:43your presentation is that for those of
1:03:44you and my students here that know me
1:03:46you know how we teach we'd like to talk
1:03:48about prudence which is the central
1:03:52virtue of the cardinal virtue and the
1:03:54central virtue of human activity in many
1:03:55ways it's citrus the first aspect the
1:04:00the first element of prudence is the
1:04:04requirement for memory and you must have
1:04:07a true memory of the true past in order
1:04:10to not decide how to proceed so thank
1:04:12you for that
1:04:14[Applause]

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