Why You Have to Stop Talking to Be Heard — Transcript

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1. 0:00My sister has fallen victim to the woke
2. 0:04virus.
3. 0:07How would I go about closing the
4. 0:08distance
5. 0:11she is
6. 0:15between herself and her family? Close
7. 0:18the distance between herself and her
8. 0:20family because she's I think getting
9. 0:23further and further away from them.
10. 0:28Well, here's a good rule.
11. 0:34If people aren't listening to you, stop
12. 0:36talking.
13. 0:38Okay? So,
14. 0:42I I mean I mean something very I mean
15. 0:45something very specific by that. It's
16. 0:48you could think about it as a strategy,
17. 0:50but it's not a manipulative strategy.
18. 0:52It's it's an existential strategy. It's
19. 0:55a variant of the idea that Christ puts
20. 0:57forward in the gospels, which is do not
21. 0:59cast pearls before swine. And I'm not
22. 1:03associating your sister with swine. By
23. 1:05the way, I'm and I'm seriously not. I I
24. 1:08want to delve into the meaning of that
25. 1:09statement.
26. 1:14There's no sense offering what will be
27. 1:18misused.
28. 1:21See, if you're if you're talking to
29. 1:23someone and they're not listening,
30. 1:26[snorts] you aren't where you think you
31. 1:28are, you've got the terrain wrong. And
32. 1:32this is something I really learned as a
33. 1:33therapist because you want to keep the
34. 1:38space where the dialogue is progressing
35. 1:42active. And if as a therapist you make a
36. 1:47verbal move and the person resists
37. 1:52resistance in psychotherapy or
38. 1:56circumvents the topic or
39. 1:59or doesn't use the
40. 2:02offering as an invitation to continue to
41. 2:05play, then you said the wrong thing.
42. 2:08[snorts] You said the wrong thing. This
43. 2:10is a really useful thing to know. It's
44. 2:12like you're trying to make your point
45. 2:13and you're not going anywhere. It's like
46. 2:16you're not you're not where you think
47. 2:18you are.
48. 2:20You're not talking to who you think
49. 2:21you're talking to. God only knows who
50. 2:23you're talking to.
51. 2:25The person you're talking to might not
52. 2:27even know who they are at that moment or
53. 2:29what possesses them, so to speak. If
54. 2:32you're talking to someone who's
55. 2:33ideologically possessed, the probability
56. 2:36that you're talking to the ideology is
57. 2:37extremely high. And good luck with that.
58. 2:40And and I mean that technically because
59. 2:42you you can tell this because
60. 2:46if there are 10 people and they have the
61. 2:48same ideology, you could talk to any of
62. 2:49them and you'd get the same answer. So
63. 2:51you're obviously not talking to the
64. 2:52person. You're talking to the ideology.
65. 2:55And the probability that an ideology
66. 2:57will listen to you is especially if you
67. 3:00insist it's that forgive it. Like going
68. 3:04directly at it is probably is more
69. 3:06likely to fortify it than anything else.
70. 3:09So,
71. 3:12what can you do instead?
72. 3:14Well, I would say in that situation,
73. 3:18don't offer any of your opinions. None.
74. 3:21Zero. Just take yourself out of the game
75. 3:23completely. And instead,
76. 3:28listen and watch.
77. 3:31Remember your aim. You have an aim. You
78. 3:33said your aim in the question, right?
79. 3:34Your aim is to reestablish a
80. 3:36relationship with your sister.
81. 3:39Okay. Now, you have no idea how you're
82. 3:42going to be able to do that. And the
83. 3:44probability that you'll do that by
84. 3:45talking out of ideology is, well, you
85. 3:47already know that's basically zero. That
86. 3:50hasn't worked. The family's fractured.
87. 3:52That's not working. So, you don't know
88. 3:55what to do, but you know what you want.
89. 3:58Okay. So, now you're
90. 4:02well, you look for an opening, right?
91. 4:03You maybe you invite her for dinner. And
92. 4:06then you watch and you think you watch
93. 4:08and you see when is what we're doing
94. 4:11working and when is what we're doing not
95. 4:13working and you try to find your
96. 4:15pathway, right? And you're searching.
97. 4:17That's a quest. It's like what's the
98. 4:19quest for? I want my sister back. You
99. 4:22got to remember that. I want my sister
100. 4:24back. I I don't want to win the
101. 4:25argument. I don't want to talk her out
102. 4:26of anything. You can want that, but then
103. 4:28you're not gonna get your sister back
104. 4:30because you're not going to get all the
105. 4:31things you want.
106. 4:33You don't want to sacrifice the lower
107. 4:35thing, you're going to win the argument
108. 4:36to the higher thing, which is you want
109. 4:38your sister back. Now, if you really
110. 4:41want your sister back
111. 4:43and you pay enough attention, she'll
112. 4:46tell you how to get her back. She won't
113. 4:48even be able to help it. So, one of the
114. 4:50there's something I learned as a
115. 4:52therapist. This is so interesting. It's
116. 4:53so cool. Well, there's two things, I
117. 4:56guess, that go together. One is that if
118. 4:59you're bored by a conversation,
119. 5:02you're the dull one.
120. 5:04Okay? So, if you find people boring,
121. 5:07it's like you should take a look in the
122. 5:09mirror [snorts] because what you're
123. 5:11doing is reducing all your interactions
124. 5:14with other people to only that which is
125. 5:16trit. And you're doing that to protect
126. 5:19yourself for some reason. Because if you
127. 5:22listen to people, and I don't care who
128. 5:24they are, if you listen to people,
129. 5:25they're so interesting that you want to
130. 5:28run away screaming. Because people are
131. 5:30very weird, they're very strange, and
132. 5:32they're they're full of snakes and
133. 5:34twists and bends. And that's as true for
134. 5:37so-called simple people as it is for
135. 5:38sophisticated people. And so,
136. 5:44you want to engage it with the person in
137. 5:45a way that's
138. 5:47that keeps the fascination alive. And
139. 5:50then you want to listen because if you
140. 5:52really listen, they'll tell you what
141. 5:54they're up to. They won't be able to
142. 5:56help it because if you run across
143. 5:59someone who listens, especially if no
144. 6:01one's listening to you, you will tell
145. 6:02them everything. And as soon as someone
146. 6:04tells you everything, then you can
147. 6:06figure out how to get them back. And so,
148. 6:08and that works. Like it might take a
149. 6:11while. And it might take a while before
150. 6:13your sister trusts you. That's for sure.
151. 6:15And what'll happen is, you know, you'll
152. 6:18invite her over and hopefully she'll
153. 6:19come or you'll say to her, "Look, is
154. 6:21there some circumstance under which I
155. 6:23could meet you?" Like, could we meet?
156. 6:26Can you want to come over for dinner?
157. 6:27Well, no, I don't think I can do that.
158. 6:29You know, you voted for Donald Trump.
159. 6:30It's like, okay, you don't say, well,
160. 6:34you know, don't you like Trump, too?
161. 6:37It's like, that's kind of obvious. I
162. 6:38think you we already know the answer to
163. 6:40that question. Um then you might say
164. 6:42well you know would you meet me for
165. 6:45coffee in the morning for like five
166. 6:48minutes and see how that goes. And if
167. 6:50she still says no then you might say
168. 6:52well is there any circumstances under
169. 6:53which we could speak or meet any well
170. 6:57and if she says no well you know wait
171. 7:02you say look the offer's on the table
172. 7:04and I'll I'll phone you in three months
173. 7:07and we'll try again. You know, like you
174. 7:10got to find a place where you can meet.
175. 7:12And then when you meet, you got to
176. 7:13listen. And she's not going to trust
177. 7:15you.
178. 7:17And
179. 7:19if you listen enough, she'll tell you
180. 7:20something private. And then she'll be
181. 7:22really mad at you and probably won't
182. 7:23talk to you for like three weeks again
183. 7:25cuz you know, you sucked her in and and
184. 7:27and
185. 7:30that'll make her mad. And so then you'll
186. 7:32have to kind of start, not quite again,
187. 7:34but sort of again. And but if you keep
188. 7:37that up,
189. 7:40she'll start talking to you. And then
190. 7:42when she talks to you, she'll tell you
191. 7:44what she needs. And if she tells you
192. 7:47what she needs, then you can deliver it.
193. 7:50And I don't mean in a way that's going
194. 7:51to violate your own integrity. That's
195. 7:53not helpful. And then you can get her
196. 7:55back.
197. 7:57But you don't do that by winning the
198. 7:59political argument. That's for sure.
199. 8:00It's not a political argument. If your
200. 8:02sister is willing to sacrifice your
201. 8:04relationship with her to the political,
202. 8:07this is nothing to do with politics.
203. 8:09It's way deeper problem, way deeper
204. 8:12problem than that. And so, you're
205. 8:14certainly not going to solve it by
206. 8:15discussing the political.
207. 8:20Why do you not cast pearls before swine?
208. 8:22Because they make no use of them. That
209. 8:25it's the wrong
210. 8:27it's the wrong place for treasures.
211. 8:31And so this is a good thing to know. If
212. 8:33you're talking to someone and they're
213. 8:34not listening, it's like, "Shut up.
214. 8:36You're not where you think you are.
215. 8:38You're not who you think you are to that
216. 8:40person." And that person is not who you
217. 8:43think they are. You're in the wrong
218. 8:46place delivering the wrong message to
219. 8:48the wrong person. And so what do you do?
220. 8:50You do what Tammy said at the beginning
221. 8:52of her talk. You pay attention. You
222. 8:55think, "Okay, who the hell are you? And
223. 8:58what is that's what I do to journalists
224. 9:00when they start torturing me. It's like,
225. 9:03you know, I thought you were a
226. 9:04journalist, but you're not. There's
227. 9:07something wrong with you.
228. 9:10Now I have to treat you like there's
229. 9:11something wrong with you. That's
230. 9:13annoying, but you made it necessary.
231. 9:16So
232. 9:23Tammy resolved a relationship with her
233. 9:25sister by listening to her. Tammy's
234. 9:27sister had the wrong idea about her.
235. 9:29Really? Like an old
236. 9:30>> She was a lot older than me.
237. 9:32>> She was a lot older than me. And she
238. 9:35lost her fiance when she was 21 and I
239. 9:38was like 13.
240. 9:41And then she was probably 40.
241. 9:45And we
242. 9:47saw each other as regularly as I saw
243. 9:50anybody else in my family. But we always
244. 9:52ended up in some sort of
245. 9:53misunderstanding.
246. 9:55And uh we had just found out that my mom
247. 9:57had dementia. And we gave my sister a
248. 10:01cognitive test and it looked like she
249. 10:03was developing the same problem. And I
250. 10:05said to George, uh, I need to do
251. 10:09something because, you know, I need to
252. 10:12do something.
253. 10:14>> I want my sister back.
254. 10:15>> Yeah. I want my sister back. Time is
255. 10:17wasting. And he said
256. 10:21what he thought would work would be to
257. 10:24listen. So, I didn't say anything for
258. 10:27the rest of the weekend really. I just
259. 10:29listened and I didn't get in any more
260. 10:32trouble. So, that was good.
261. 10:35And at the end of the weekend, we went
262. 10:37whale watching. We were on Vancouver
263. 10:39Island. We went whale watching. At the
264. 10:42end of the day, we went to a restaurant
265. 10:44uh with my aunt and Jordan and I. And we
266. 10:47sat down and she started to tell me who
267. 10:50she thought I was. And she was saying
268. 10:53you were I was dependent on my parents
269. 10:56that they did everything for me.
270. 10:58>> That you got everything you ever wanted
271. 11:00without any effort.
272. 11:01>> Yeah.
273. 11:02>> Yeah.
274. 11:02>> And I was kicking Jordan under the
275. 11:04table. I wasn't saying anything. I was
276. 11:06like, wow. Just
277. 11:07>> no defender. You didn't defend yourself
278. 11:09at all.
279. 11:09>> No. And then at the end of that, she
280. 11:11said, you know, you're a really good
281. 11:12mother. So I think she had never said
282. 11:15out loud what she had been thinking.
283. 11:17Maybe I hadn't given her a chance. And
284. 11:21uh then we got along very well. She the
285. 11:24next year she said the same thing, the
286. 11:26same thing
287. 11:27>> story.
288. 11:27>> And then at the end said, "You're a good
289. 11:29mother." And then I never heard that
290. 11:31story again. And we had 20 really good
291. 11:34years.
292. 11:35>> So it works.
293. 11:39>> Yeah. It was so It was very cool. It's
294. 11:41very cool to watch it because
295. 11:44Tam's sister when we were sitting in
296. 11:46this restaurant really took a strip off
297. 11:48her but it was so like I knew Tammy
298. 11:52and her sister had formulated a picture
299. 11:54of Tammy like 20 years ago that was like
300. 11:57the picture a
301. 12:0019-year-old might formulate and had
302. 12:02never really questioned it since. And it
303. 12:05was so unlike what Tammy was like that
304. 12:07it was like she was talking about
305. 12:08someone who wasn't even there. And so it
306. 12:11was even hard to take offense to. It's
307. 12:12like that's what you think. And then at
308. 12:14the end of it, as as Tammy pointed out,
309. 12:17she sort of shook her head and realized
310. 12:18that actually bore virtually no
311. 12:21relationship whatsoever to the reality
312. 12:22that she was actually observing. And she
313. 12:25would have never figured that out if you
314. 12:27would have said anything to defend
315. 12:28yourself, right? You had to let her tell
316. 12:30the whole story. She didn't know what
317. 12:32she thought of Tammy until she said it.
318. 12:34And then it was preposterous. And then
319. 12:37it was obvious that it was outdated and
320. 12:39useless and not accurate. But it would
321. 12:42have never
322. 12:44that would realization would have never
323. 12:45come if you would have started defending
324. 12:47yourself because she would have just
325. 12:48backed into a corner and you would have
326. 12:50never heard what she thought.
327. 12:51>> She was very traumatized, you know, when
328. 12:53she was 21 and that just solidified
329. 12:57in time. That was where our relationship
330. 13:00was. She must have looked at me at 13
331. 13:03not having had any tragedy in my life
332. 13:06and felt some
333. 13:08jealousy or you know for cuz she was in
334. 13:12such pain and but she never talked about
335. 13:15it until that moment. So that's very
336. 13:18>> And that only took three days.
337. 13:20>> Yeah. Three days.
338. 13:21>> Yeah.
339. 13:22>> Yeah.
340. 13:22>> Yeah. It was amazing. It was amazing.