Why Trump talks about election fraud | Global News Podcast — Transcript

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1. 0:00Welcome to the Global News Podcast from
2. 0:01the BBC. I'm Seely Hatton and today I'm
3. 0:04joined by our North America
4. 0:05correspondent Anthony Zurcher. Anthony,
5. 0:07we're looking at the wide-ranging claims
6. 0:09of election fraud that were laid out by
7. 0:11President Trump in a rare national
8. 0:13address from meddling by China to
9. 0:16allegations of a deep state cover-up. I
10. 0:19know the BBC's been reviewing documents
11. 0:22that have been newly released by the
12. 0:23Trump administration into these claims.
13. 0:26Has there been any proof that's been
14. 0:28revealed?
15. 0:29>> Well, Donald Trump has declassified a
16. 0:32range of different documents going over
17. 0:34the past five or six years and he in his
18. 0:38speech to the public cited those
19. 0:40documents. We've had a chance to look a
20. 0:42little deeper into them and some of the
21. 0:44information is new but it doesn't
22. 0:47contain any big surprises. There were
23. 0:51things that we already knew, some
24. 0:52documents that had already been released
25. 0:54out into the public domain, some which
26. 0:57had been a concern for American
27. 0:59government going back more than 10
28. 1:01years. So,
29. 1:04the the validity of these documents,
30. 1:06these are findings, sometimes
31. 1:09temporary findings or preliminary
32. 1:10findings, but Donald Trump has been
33. 1:12grouping all of them together and in the
34. 1:14speech was trying to present it as a
35. 1:17clear threat to American elections and a
36. 1:21warning that things had to be done to
37. 1:23secure them or the United States
38. 1:25democracy would be in in peril.
39. 1:28>> Okay, so Donald [snorts] Trump is trying
40. 1:29to present this as a threat. Are voters
41. 1:32buying it? What's been the reaction so
42. 1:34far?
43. 1:35>> You know, if you look at polls cuz this
44. 1:37is not new, Donald Trump's claims. He
45. 1:39has obviously
46. 1:41complained about the 2020 presidential
47. 1:43election and his defeat in that election
48. 1:45since the day of that election. He has
49. 1:49complained about the midterm election,
50. 1:51even the 2016 election which he won. He
51. 1:53said there was fraud there and that's
52. 1:54why he He win the popular vote. And he
53. 1:57has convinced I would say a majority
54. 2:00according to polls of Republicans that
55. 2:03there is a a problem with election fraud
56. 2:06and that he really did win the 2020
57. 2:09election. But the public writ large
58. 2:12beyond Donald Trump's loyal base, I
59. 2:15think they view this skeptically and
60. 2:17honestly they don't think that much
61. 2:19about past elections. I think if you
62. 2:21look at what voters are concerned about
63. 2:24right now is the economy, it's
64. 2:26affordability, the cost of housing, the
65. 2:28cost of energy,
66. 2:30and that is what is a pressing concern
67. 2:33for them. So Donald Trump talking about
68. 2:34this, it's essentially preaching to the
69. 2:36choir to some extent. The people who
70. 2:38believe this already are going to
71. 2:39believe it just as much, but I'm not
72. 2:41sure because of the evidence that he's
73. 2:44putting forward
74. 2:45over the past 24 hours that that's going
75. 2:47to change a lot of minds.
76. 2:49>> It's fascinating this split that we're
77. 2:51seeing between what the public believes,
78. 2:54what polls tell us about what the public
79. 2:55believes, and what we're hearing in
80. 2:58Washington and what Republicans are are
81. 3:01saying in Washington. Can you tell me
82. 3:03more about that reaction in DC between
83. 3:06Republicans but also from Democrats?
84. 3:08>> Well, Donald Trump back in 2020 when he
85. 3:11was challenging those election results,
86. 3:13he had people in his administration
87. 3:16who disagreed with him. People like
88. 3:18William Barr, the Attorney General, who
89. 3:19said that these allegations of of voter
90. 3:22fraud, widespread voter fraud was
91. 3:24essentially BS.
92. 3:26This time around his Donald Trump is
93. 3:29surrounded by people in his
94. 3:31administration who either agree with him
95. 3:34that election fraud is a major concern
96. 3:37or at the very least are willing to echo
97. 3:39his his statements about calling into
98. 3:42question past election results. So it's
99. 3:45a it's a different environment here for
100. 3:47Republicans and you've heard it when a
101. 3:49whole litany of nominees that Donald
102. 3:51Trump has put up for senior
103. 3:53administration officials. When they get
104. 3:54on the hill, they're asked by Democrats,
105. 3:56"Who won the 2020 presidential
106. 3:58election?" And almost to a person,
107. 4:01uh they will uh
108. 4:03they'll refuse to to speak on the record
109. 4:05to that. Uh they'll they'll not directly
110. 4:08answer that question. Uh the most
111. 4:10recently, the nominee for director of
112. 4:12national intelligence, uh he he was
113. 4:15unwilling to say that Joe Biden won. He
114. 4:17just said Joe Biden was certified as as
115. 4:20the as the the president. And that was
116. 4:22about as far as he was willing to go.
117. 4:23So, uh that kind of that kind of shows
118. 4:26you the environment among Republicans
119. 4:27here in Washington. Democrats, uh
120. 4:30obviously, they're saying this is uh an
121. 4:32obsession of Donald Trump's that he was
122. 4:34not willing to uh accept defeat in 2020.
123. 4:37Uh but there's a greater concern that
124. 4:40Trump's criticisms, and his speech last
125. 4:43night was part of it, is laying the
126. 4:45groundwork for his efforts to contest
127. 4:48the midterm elections, uh midterm
128. 4:50congressional elections that will take
129. 4:51place in November. They say he might uh
130. 4:54later on try to nullify those results or
131. 4:57take steps to uh to block the uh the
132. 5:00seating of members of Congress,
133. 5:02Democrats who win in some of these
134. 5:04races. Uh and and the concern is
135. 5:06obviously they will point back to 2020
136. 5:08when a lot of people after that November
137. 5:10election thought Donald Trump was just
138. 5:12letting off steam and he was complaining
139. 5:14about his loss, but he wasn't going to
140. 5:15do anything about it. Uh and then
141. 5:18January 6th happened, the rally on uh on
142. 5:21the Ellipse, and the attack on the US
143. 5:23Capitol, uh and evidence that Donald
144. 5:25Trump was seriously considering
145. 5:26confiscating voting machines, and all of
146. 5:28these other steps. So, I think that has
147. 5:30changed the way uh a lot of Democrats
148. 5:33look at these these attempts by Donald
149. 5:35Trump to call into question uh the
150. 5:37legitimacy of America's democratic
151. 5:40election systems.
152. 5:41>> So, Anthony, let's talk more then about
153. 5:42the strategy behind Donald Trump's
154. 5:45assertions about past elections and how
155. 5:48they might bleed into concerns about
156. 5:50future elections as well.
157. 5:53>> One of the things he did in his speech
158. 5:55on Thursday night was make a direct
159. 5:57pitch for some legislation that is going
160. 6:00through Congress right now called the
161. 6:01Save Act and that legislation which is
162. 6:04currently stalled in the US Senate would
163. 6:07effectively ban mail-in balloting voting
164. 6:10which Donald Trump alleges is rife with
165. 6:12fraud although there's no support for
166. 6:14that assertion and also require proof of
167. 6:16citizenship to register to vote. You'd
168. 6:18have to show up with a passport or a
169. 6:20birth certificate and if your name
170. 6:22doesn't match that birth certificate
171. 6:23some sort of proof of a name change
172. 6:25whether it was because of marriage or
173. 6:26something else.
174. 6:27And then also mandatory photo
175. 6:29identification to cast a ballot. A lot
176. 6:31of states do that already but this would
177. 6:33create a nationwide standard for photo
178. 6:37identification when you when you vote.
179. 6:40>> Why is this legislation stalled if
180. 6:43Republicans are
181. 6:45on in DC are basically lining up behind
182. 6:47Donald Trump to support his claims about
183. 6:50possible interference in elections? Why
184. 6:52is this particular piece of legislation
185. 6:55not sailing through?
186. 6:56>> It's passed the House of Representatives
187. 6:59where Republicans tend to vote more in
188. 7:01line with Donald Trump. In the Senate
189. 7:03however, it's not universal the
190. 7:05Republican support for this. There are a
191. 7:06handful of Republicans who have doubts
192. 7:09about this and worry about things like
193. 7:11what married women would be able to
194. 7:13whether it would be easy for them to
195. 7:14register to vote. The costs associated
196. 7:16with finding a birth certificate and
197. 7:18getting a copy of it. All of these are
198. 7:20obstacles hoops that you have to jump
199. 7:22through in order to exercise your
200. 7:24constitutional right to cast a ballot
201. 7:27and so it makes it more onerous for
202. 7:29people to to exercise that right. And at
203. 7:32this point Democrats are unified in
204. 7:34their opposition to this. So their view
205. 7:37is that a lot of the people on the
206. 7:38margins people who are uh, new citizens
207. 7:41people who may not who are elderly, who
208. 7:43may not have access to old birth
209. 7:45records, or may not have passports, that
210. 7:48they are the ones who are going to be
211. 7:49the most affected. And and just because
212. 7:52they are on those margins, and they
213. 7:53don't have the documents, they shouldn't
214. 7:55be less able to participate in democracy
215. 7:58than uh, than those of us who have
216. 8:00passports and have photo IDs, and can
217. 8:02very easily get to polling places.
218. 8:04>> I want to kind of zoom out a little bit
219. 8:06and look at the bigger picture, the big
220. 8:08reaction, because Donald Trump was very
221. 8:10clear in his uh, late-night television
222. 8:13address. He said that China was
223. 8:15responsible for election meddling. And I
224. 8:18wonder how this might affect his
225. 8:20administration's attempts to patch up
226. 8:23relationships with China. I mean, we've
227. 8:25already heard from the Chinese Foreign
228. 8:26Ministry saying that these claims are
229. 8:29malicious smears. So, does this kind of
230. 8:32go against what Donald Trump's trying to
231. 8:34achieve when it comes to China on and
232. 8:36China trade?
233. 8:38>> I I think it puts it at risk. Uh, Trump
234. 8:40was pretty blunt in his speech last
235. 8:42night. He called it sinister election
236. 8:44meddling that China was doing, that
237. 8:46China didn't want him to be reelected in
238. 8:492020, and not only got access to voter
239. 8:52uh, rolls, voter data, but also
240. 8:54pressured business leaders, and used
241. 8:57social media to try to influence and
242. 8:59turn the public uh, against him. Uh,
243. 9:02whether that is going to be a problem
244. 9:04going forward, I think depends on what
245. 9:05Donald Trump does next. Uh, he's made
246. 9:07these big allegations against China. Uh,
247. 9:10is he going to follow through with that?
248. 9:12Does he really believe that China
249. 9:13presents a threat to American democracy?
250. 9:16Or was that just a a tool that he was
251. 9:19using to try to get uh, legislation,
252. 9:22this legislation through Congress that
253. 9:24would require uh, greater security on
254. 9:27uh, on voting, more proof of
255. 9:28identification and citizenship, which
256. 9:30isn't even really directly related to
257. 9:32what China was alleged to be doing. So,
258. 9:35on one in some way it feels like he he
259. 9:37brought up China to to to create a a
260. 9:40feeling of a more urgency, more of a a
261. 9:43threat to American democracy, but then
262. 9:46pivoted to the kind of domestic election
263. 9:49security steps that that have nothing to
264. 9:51do with with the kind of meddling that
265. 9:53he's accusing China of doing.
266. 9:56There's real tension between the United
267. 9:58States and China over things like trade
268. 10:00and and global security. And this is
269. 10:03just going to be one more piece of that,
270. 10:06but I wouldn't be surprised if we hear
271. 10:08from Donald Trump going forward when he
272. 10:09talks about China and talks about Xi
273. 10:11Jinping, who he feels very friendly with
274. 10:14in his comments, whether that doesn't
275. 10:16change at all. And if that doesn't
276. 10:18change, I think that does tell us that
277. 10:19this was essentially just trying to find
278. 10:22evidence to to pursue a domestic goal.
279. 10:25>> Thank you, Anthony, our North America
280. 10:27correspondent Anthony Zurcher. And if
281. 10:28you want to hear more from the Global
282. 10:29News podcast, click the link below. I'm
283. 10:31Celia Hatton. Thanks for watching.