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Why the Rich Think Differently: Millionaire Mindset & Wealth Secrets - Kunal Shah |FO389 Raj Shamani — Transcript

by Raj Shamani · 26,019 words · 4,459 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00You feel successful people don't gossip.
0:01>> Successful people actually are
0:03extraordinary at keeping secrets. They
0:05gossip to know information. You will
0:06never see a wealthy person who's
0:09terrible at keeping secrets. The moment
0:11second third generation who's not good
0:12at keeping secrets the wealth will go
0:14away. Were you good at keeping secrets
0:16from childhood? I was good at keeping
0:17people's trust. Tweet that you did.
0:20Fastest way to be called stupid in life
0:22is to have an opinion about power or
0:24politics. Why? You will notice that
0:26people who talk a lot about politics are
0:28usually powerless in life. What is your
0:30fear today?
0:31>> Fear of the poor. Nobody really wants to
0:33hang around with poor people.
0:34>> You've also said somewhere most Indians
0:36settle for average career.
0:39>> What's the truth about discipline and
0:41ambitious? Because a lot of people think
0:43they're ambitious.
0:43>> Most ambitious people will never say
0:45they're ambitious. They are just doing
0:47stuff, building stuff. They don't write
0:49all these tag words on their Twitter or
0:51Instagram or LinkedIn. There are many
0:54people who are famous for being cringe.
0:55You won't respect them. Do you have any
0:57insecurity?
1:04At times, even when you're doing
1:05everything right, something still goes
1:08wrong. Like you are all ready for a
1:10shoot, but you realize you forgot the
1:12mic. Or a teammate needs a document, but
1:15there's no one free to go drop it. These
1:18problems slow you down. That's why I use
1:21Porto. It helps me save time and effort
1:23by offering ondemand two-wheer and truck
1:26delivery services for all small and big
1:28things as per my needs. Their instant
1:30pickup and reliable deliveries not only
1:32reduce effort but also bring peace of
1:35mind. And it doesn't matter if you're a
1:37freelancer, a startup or an established
1:39company. Pis delivery and our today's
1:42guest Kunal Sha founder of cred also
1:45agrees with this way of thinking. He
1:47doesn't just spot problems before other
1:49people. He questions why they exist and
1:52how he can fix them. In today's episode,
1:55he talks about what is his biggest fear
1:58right now. What is he chasing? Fame,
2:01power, or money? Can someone build
2:03ambition like a skill? Why are we not
2:06acceptable of failure as a society? How
2:09can a person go from being mediocre to
2:12earning a place with an A+ crowd? And
2:15why is being a trustworthy person a huge
2:18part of success? Watch this episode till
2:20the end and tell me in the comments what
2:22did you learn from this conversation.
2:29Like my first big podcast I was just
2:31telling my team.
2:31>> Oh is that true?
2:32>> First I've done 50 60 episodes.
2:38>> Yours was the first
2:40and I did it
2:41>> and I remember the first line and we put
2:43it out in podcast as well. View
2:46podcast start. I'm nervous
2:48>> and you tell me.
2:51>> You remember it was incredible. I I do
2:53remember
2:54>> but like it's it's like kudos to you
2:57man. It is not uh it is absolutely elite
3:01athlete level achievement what you've
3:03done. Pretty cool man.
3:04>> Thank you. It means a lot.
3:06>> No no it is it is it is what is this
3:07like credit where it's due man. This is
3:09this is extraordinary work.
3:11>> Thank you so much.
3:12>> And and I can tell you it may look easy
3:14from outside. I know. Uh it has must
3:18have been a nightmare getting to this
3:20place. How old are you now?
3:22>> I'm 28.
3:23>> That's even more commendable, man. Good
3:26stuff.
3:26>> Thank you. Done. I'm actually happy.
3:31I was nervous. I'm a fan more than and
3:35more than the kunala. The person I'm fan
3:37of kunal sha the person who tweets
3:42born and brought up. I'm actually born
3:44uh in Ahmedabad. My mom's from here but
3:46I've always been here. So my I was like
3:48raised
3:49>> Bangalore. Bombay.
3:49>> No Bombay only.
3:50>> Okay.
3:51>> Bangalore is only less Indian.
3:54>> Yeah. It's just that I never got like
3:57good at it.
3:58>> Okay.
3:58>> Uh I can speak uh it's not that I can't
4:01speak Hindi but I know that I will
4:03struggle with words.
4:04>> You think in English?
4:08>> That's a good question.
4:10I don't know what language I think in
4:12>> but you read and consume everything in
4:14English.
4:15>> H no I I do
4:19consume in multiple languages. It's just
4:21that I don't know what language do I
4:23think in
4:25become a I think it's become a
4:28mixture now. Okay.
4:30>> Is it work?
4:36I don't know. I [ __ ] maybe I don't I
4:40don't have conversations with myself
4:42when I'm thinking. Okay.
4:44>> I'm usually just as a triggers then I go
4:47externally.
4:49That's a good question.
4:52Wow. Maybe I've stopped.
4:56Wow. I'm trying to think on which
4:58language I'm thinking. I'm not able to.
5:00I think it's reached into some kind of a
5:04like languageless
5:06thinking approach now. It's just more of
5:08like triggers and
5:12>> I think it's multiple languages.
5:13>> Okay.
5:14>> Multiple things together.
5:16>> Yeah. It's like a full ADHD brain. So
5:18it's a little
5:19>> Okay. Try to break it down for me. For
5:21example, let's say
5:26behavior, human behavior, all of these
5:28things, right?
5:29So you said you get triggers
5:34and it triggers something in you like
5:36okay
5:37what goes on
5:40so I think uh step by step actually
5:42opinion comes after thinking about for
5:45probably months and years. Uh I don't
5:48think observe and I get an opinion. I
5:52usually I'm observing observing
5:55observing observing and pattern
5:58and then I see the pattern being a
6:01larger pattern about something and then
6:03I try to capture it in one sentence so
6:07that I can register it as a pattern.
6:10>> Right? So example um I I observed
6:17historically shameful
6:23method
6:25is to convert that into pride.
6:28>> Okay.
6:31Cigarettes used to be back in the day
6:33something as a shameful behavior. So
6:35they showed mal broman this that pride
6:40all of that and then converted that into
6:42normalized behavior. Right? If you see
6:45uh the the the recent times where we now
6:49accepted homosexuality as uh a thing, it
6:53went through a moment of first being
6:54proud about it, right? And like if you
6:57see the the pride parades or whatever
7:00are are a method. So you'll notice that
7:03anything about human beings that was
7:06historically
7:07shameful or treated shamefully
7:11converted into pride and then became
7:14normal.
7:14>> So it's an interesting thing that how is
7:16this pattern repeats again and again and
7:18again. So I always observe these things
7:20and say yeah and then I see if it's
7:22true. So what I do is then I try to find
7:26more examples
7:29and now with chat GP I could actually
7:30get 10 examples of it and then you're
7:33like oh wow like this is again and again
7:36and again repeating so what I try to do
7:40is find observations see if it's
7:43widespread
7:45and then capture the essence key
7:49>> see because you're talking about
7:50observation and shame M
7:53>> one thing which is very shameful today
7:56is failure.
7:57>> When you fail in public
7:58>> okay
7:59>> and that probably is something that we
8:02need to because I was reading bunch of
8:04your tweets
8:06>> that is something that we need to get
8:07over in order to try more or maybe
8:10succeed as a society in a better way.
8:13>> Right?
8:13>> How do you think that will happen first?
8:15Actually why do you think failure is
8:17seen as a shameful event in our country?
8:19See the thing is the
8:21uh
8:24first of all let's just understand how
8:28we are raised. Uh there is this
8:32perpetual fear.
8:35Everybody is living in some version of
8:37fear. Society fear exam fear
8:46and and we also raise kids through fear.
8:48Okay, if you do not do this, this will
8:50happen.
8:54Nobody will respect you. All of that
8:56stuff, right? So when your default state
8:58is fear,
9:01failure is the dreaded,
9:06right? Uh and
9:09that causes the society to feel safe in
9:13some ways, right? But it makes it is
9:16very common in the emotional societies.
9:18For example,
9:20India was completely apathy or complete
9:24panic.
9:27>> Right? You will notice one more thing
9:29that Indians when they rate an app they
9:32will do one star or five star two three
9:35four star right because that's an
9:37emotional response. YouTube used to be
9:40have earlier different ratings if you
9:41remember then it moved to up thumbs up
9:43and thumbs down. Yeah,
9:44>> right. Cuz that's how emotional
9:46reactions are, right?
9:50I and that's like, oh, I'm a fan and
9:53then if they don't do well, oh, we'll
9:55hate,
9:57>> right? And and therefore I I often say
9:58that we like to create gods out of
10:00people and then do vis of them, right?
10:03And that's how we feel okay about
10:06things, right?
10:07>> So I think what happens is
10:10failure part, right? comes from what do
10:13we celebrate?
10:15Right? Uh now risky behavior
10:19historically
10:20resulted in you being left out in the
10:22society and the society had no way to
10:24bring you up or whatever and you would
10:25be like treated as somebody who has bad
10:26judgment.
10:29risk simple simple for example let's say
10:32our movement as a society from saving
10:34account to fixed deposits to investing
10:37in mutual funds to investing in stocks
10:39is a journey
10:40>> right
10:41>> and you will see that different
10:43communities in different societies for
10:44example business families had a very
10:46different relationship with money
10:48>> because risk was innate to you notice
10:51that they were the earliest to adopt the
10:53riskier part of life
10:54>> true
10:55>> right
10:56>> but when you see younger people they are
10:57now adopting riskier faster because
10:59their household is safe. For example,
11:02you did not have to think about
11:05fair.
11:06>> So your failure ability or your risk
11:08appetite changed materially. the next
11:12generation will be significantly much
11:14more attuned to failure because the
11:16failure doesn't mean
11:18like I have had stages of life where I
11:20did not have money to eat right and you
11:23are literally I would go I remember like
11:25buying chana on credit chana singh on
11:28credit
11:32>> right so that has a very different
11:35tolerance
11:36sometimes losing everything also makes
11:39you very good at failure
11:41Right. If you notice somebody that
11:48because it's so close to zero. Yeah.
11:51>> So you will see that people who have
11:54less money are doing more riskier
11:56behavior
11:57>> right like for example people who are
11:59getting caught in investment scams this
12:00that they're like okay small money.
12:06M
12:07>> so I think failure comes in a mixed
12:09thing but culturally we are a
12:11collectivist society collective society
12:13simp
12:16>> right when we were you would remember
12:19that your grandparents would tell you
12:20that
12:22and we used to wear the same shirt right
12:24but now imagine trying to tell three
12:27cousins you're going to wear the same
12:28clothes it's not okay they have become
12:30individuals now right so as we move from
12:35let's say a non-indiv individualistic
12:37society to individualistic we will get
12:39to more
12:41failure understanding choices and so on
12:43and so forth but there's another thing
12:45that is happening which is preventing
12:47failure again
12:48>> is
12:50people fearing their social media
12:52followers
12:53>> right that let's say you are a young
12:55person and you have like managed to get
12:572,000 followers in your head you're
12:59already a celebrity
13:02Raj you will remember when you had
13:0350,000 followers and you would get 40
13:06likes, your reaction would be the same
13:09as today at millions of followers,
13:12right? The the threshold has changed.
13:14>> Yeah.
13:14>> Right. But unfortunately,
13:18we get shaped by our audience,
13:21which is a problematic loop. Right? For
13:22example,
13:23>> when I tweet, I am not thinking about
13:26likes because if I was thinking about
13:27likes, I know exactly how to get them. I
13:29can say
13:35emotions capture you'll get consistently
13:37but I write for myself
13:39>> right so you will see from a 50 likes to
13:41a 50,000 likes coming together it's not
13:44consistent because I don't care about
13:46the audience but what you'll notice is
13:49that eventually everybody starts caring
13:51and if you're a young person you start
13:52thinking about the 2,000 followers and
13:55what will they like what will they judge
13:57me for what are they going to think
14:00about me? And then your personality
14:03starts getting shaped through the views
14:05of these 2,000 people that you would
14:07otherwise not care about. So that's
14:09becoming a problematic loop for
14:10>> it's a very big trap because everybody
14:13is like trying so hard to differentiate
14:16now right
14:19when I was growing up social media pre-
14:21internet when I was in college in my
14:23first year second year internet has not
14:25become big yet
14:27like a group of 10 you could be
14:29different in that right jeans
14:33right difference.
14:38>> But now when you are being trying to be
14:41different with 2,000 followers,
14:44you have to find different way to be
14:45aesthetic. You have to find a different
14:47way to be cool. Travel to unique places
14:49that nobody has been to. Capture the
14:52same thing differently, right? Go to
14:54some music festival, but take a very
14:56different clip of that music festival so
14:58that you feel cool. or you are closer to
15:00the stage or not closer to the stage to
15:02to signal that okay I'm in the more
15:04important place or not right uh uh
15:07capturing unique food
15:09>> so that you feel that I try different
15:11things and so on and so forth so this
15:13deep need to differentiate is frying
15:16people's brain
15:18>> right
15:21>> right like for example you are going and
15:23getting Vijay Malia on the podcast is
15:25your breaking out of differentiation
15:27right it's a it's a thing that is needed
15:29Because how would people find that?
15:31Okay. What is the thing difference that
15:33you bring to the table?
15:34>> Why do you think it's a bad thing?
15:35>> It's not a bad thing. It it's just very
15:37taxing.
15:38It's not bad thing. I'm just saying
15:40first of all, one thing we should avoid
15:42Raj is that categorizing things in good
15:44and bad.
15:45>> It's the simplest form of doing this
15:47this we should never do that.
15:49>> Okay.
15:49>> Uh there is no no such thing as good and
15:51bad. Everything has lots of nuance.
15:54Let's say if you have the capability to
15:56differentiate, by all means do it,
16:00right? But if you do not have the
16:02capability and you're trying very hard,
16:03it is very mentally taxing. But don't
16:06you think if you keep trying to do that,
16:08maybe you'll find a differentiator and
16:11that will act as a proof for you in one
16:13area of life which will help you in
16:15other areas of life as well.
16:16>> Yes and no. uh eventually what you will
16:18realize is that 99.9%
16:21of humans have non- differentiated
16:25but they are now being told by all these
16:27people that you have to be different
16:30right and therefore we capture try to
16:32capture every trend
16:35and say okay I'm going to be this and if
16:37you look at fashion cycles used to
16:39earlier take multiple years to get
16:40outdated now they get outdated very
16:43quickly right and and what we call as
16:45fast fashion is nothing
16:46Oh, somebody wore this. Now it's
16:48everybody doing it. Now it's gone in
16:50months. In weeks.
16:51>> Yeah.
16:52>> You you saw the whole labubu hype kind
16:54of go and crash
16:56>> in weeks.
16:58When I was growing up, some of these
16:59trends would last for a decade before it
17:02disappears. So we are hyperconnected.
17:06>> So the cycles are moving very fast and
17:08that is very hard for a lot of people to
17:09keep up.
17:11people like feel brain fried that like
17:14how do I keep up to this thing? So a lot
17:16of people choose to not showcase
17:18themselves at all. They become observers
17:21>> because they just accept that I can't
17:24keep up. Right. I'm I'm sure you feel
17:26overwhelmed that this is like like I saw
17:28in your office you put numbers of all
17:30these things that you want to achieve
17:32and it's hard.
17:33>> It's hard. It's not easy to constantly
17:35keep breaking out and doing stuff.
17:37Obviously you have to be driven
17:38differently to do this but not everybody
17:41is driven differently. What I'm saying
17:42is that that comparison right that oh I
17:46will never be this scale I will never be
17:49that right for example when I used to do
17:52my version of cred curious I never cared
17:54about views I was very curious
17:57>> earlier I used to do this privately for
17:59my team then my team is like let's make
18:01it public and it became popular but I
18:04didn't care about the views because I
18:05was genuinely doing it from my own thing
18:06but the moment you start thinking about
18:08those metrics versus own curiosity
18:11things change right because now you know
18:14exactly
18:21what if you lose yourself in this what
18:24if you realize that learning now I'm
18:28getting whatever will get me applause
18:31right when a great actor
18:34starts doing stuff that will get gags
18:36and laughs from people
18:39>> because it gets views it gets me
18:42>> eventually they feel that void that I've
18:45stopped being a great actor.
18:48>> So like this is called the panding to
18:50the audience like you eventually getting
18:51to a place where
18:53oh my god this is who I've become.
18:56>> Yeah you know I'll talk about me a
18:59little bit and then we'll go back to the
19:01fear conversation.
19:03So what has really helped us is us not
19:07bothering about views during the
19:09conversation. perfect like that and I
19:12can tell you by far every member in the
19:14team we know this when we prepare for a
19:17podcast when we choose the guest and
19:19when we do the podcast we give zero
19:21views
19:22>> we're like okay sometimes we prepare 500
19:25things and we end up talking about none
19:27because we're just curious and we are in
19:28the conversation want to learn
19:30>> that has really helped us
19:31>> that's good
19:32>> so that the only objective is can we
19:37learn and understand something out of
19:39this.
19:40>> Oh, that's perfect. As long as you do
19:42this consistently like till now in every
19:44conversation we've done this what we do
19:47is once the conversation is out
19:50>> like once this is done like this job is
19:52done
19:53>> then we try to think okay now how do we
19:55make best out of whatever we've gotten
19:58>> the process of views doesn't start
20:00before we've shot the podcast
20:02>> perfect that's actually quite cool uh I
20:05think one topic to touch upon on fear is
20:08uh best People convert fear into
20:13curiosity.
20:13>> What do you mean? Explain.
20:16>> See, everybody has fear.
20:19>> Guaranteed.
20:20>> Agreed.
20:20>> Some people have a very different
20:22reaction to fear. Most people have a
20:24reaction, shut down, go in shell, not
20:28act. Small percent of people convert
20:31their fear into curiosity.
20:37>> Right? Let's say people who do adventure
20:39sport, are they not fearful? They
20:41absolutely are.
20:43>> But there is this curiosity that takes
20:45over. They convert that fear into this
20:48weird curiosity.
20:50Yeah.
20:51>> And it appeals to them. That risk, that
20:54curiosity appeals to them so much and
20:56they continue to do well. Right.
21:01Right. And
21:04uh that actually allows them to propel
21:08forward in life. All right. So
21:09converting fear to curiosity where where
21:12you're like, "Oh my god, let me see."
21:15Like there is this weird thing that
21:16attracts you, risk attracts you, right?
21:20Uh like a lot of people like talk about
21:22Elon Musk and say that he has no ability
21:24to process risk. And it's probably true.
21:27the kind of stuff that he constantly
21:29does, you're like, I can't believe that
21:31the guy is doing this, right? But there
21:34is this natural attraction to risk with
21:38judgment, right? See, if you're just
21:41attracted to risk, you can also be
21:42called a gambler.
21:47But the moment you combine the judgment
21:50ability with risk tolerance
21:53or risk attraction,
21:56you will see those guys do well.
21:57>> True. Do you al don't you feel most
22:01people who are successful quote and go
22:04in different different ways don't you
22:06feel they are more driven out of fear of
22:09inefficiency or fear of
22:12uh fear of not being at a place where
22:15they come from or where they are today.
22:17So it's mostly the fear which is driving
22:19them to change. So in some cases fear is
22:23actually really helping people to move
22:26forward not in terms of attraction or
22:28curiosity but just in feel of I don't
22:31want to be suffocated by staying in that
22:33one place.
22:34>> I think uh it's
22:38not always fear they are escaping they
22:41are just escaping.
22:43So there are different things people
22:45escape.
22:45>> Okay? Right? People are escaping their
22:48trauma, people are escaping their
22:49circumstances, people are escaping their
22:51fear, people are escaping their
22:53identity, people are escaping their
22:55country, people are escaping their
22:57society, people are escaping their
22:59relationships.
23:01Escaping
23:03drives people, right? Uh fear is just
23:07one of them. But you will notice one
23:10thing that uh
23:14most successful people are some version
23:16of OCD. They are repeating this pattern
23:19again and again and again and again and
23:21again without any drive coming from
23:24outside.
23:24>> Yeah.
23:25>> Right. They are self fueling mechanism.
23:28They don't need motivational speakers by
23:30the way.
23:30>> True.
23:31>> Right. You will never see driven people
23:33driven by motivational speakers.
23:35Right. So almost a reverse trend. People
23:38who need motivational speakers are
23:40unlikely to be driven, right? Uh and and
23:44which is if you think about it is a
23:46business-breaking line to make. But the
23:48thing is that people who are escaping
23:50something, they don't have time for
23:51motivational speakers.
23:54>> They just want to just be at it at it.
23:56At it at it, at it. Imagine the best
23:58athlete. Imagine imagine the best
24:00entrepreneur. They're just at it.
24:02They're escaping. They're escaping their
24:04their they they're escaping their irre
24:07relevance. They're escaping their
24:08current state. They are feeling
24:10inadequate. Right? I have met many many
24:14successful people. Everybody is like
24:16achieve life
24:18>> like [ __ ] like I have done nothing. I
24:21have become irrelevant. I have done
24:22this. I have not understand this. I I
24:24have no understanding of AI. I'm this
24:26and that. They are just like driven in a
24:28very weird manner.
24:29>> Yeah.
24:29>> Right. And they're always escaping
24:31something, escaping their status quo
24:33mostly, right? And what drives them is
24:37the OCD, which is obsessive compulsive
24:40disorder almost, right? And now we say
24:43these words in form of disease and and
24:47illnesses. Uh uh but the thing is it's a
24:49state.
24:49>> Yeah. Right. If you see ever and I would
24:53I would encourage like a lot of people
24:55to find a way to observe an elite
24:57athlete training
24:59like you will see something very
25:01different, right? What have you observed
25:03>> for example their consistency to do
25:06something for 3 4 8 hours a day which is
25:09physically taxing
25:11right and there is nobody is no nobody's
25:13enjoying that nobody's enjoying that
25:17>> you can see but that drive to just be at
25:19it at it at it and almost that they
25:23can't live without that don't you think
25:24that's fear of not being able to live up
25:27to potential or maybe fear of being
25:29average
25:30>> it's not always fear some people driven
25:32through their trauma.
25:33>> There is no fear. They're just
25:34traumatized and they want to escape that
25:36trauma. They want to escape that feeling
25:37of being alone sometimes. Sometimes
25:40people are workaholic because if they
25:42left alone to themselves, they'll be
25:45fearful about meeting themselves.
25:46>> Yeah.
25:47>> Right. So you have to understand that
25:49these things are driven from multiple
25:51places. Uh uh sometimes you're also in
25:55the company of driven people and that
25:56drives you.
25:58>> Right? uh we are we are always the
26:01average of five people we spend time
26:02with.
26:03>> You believe by
26:04>> absolutely believe it right and
26:06therefore a lot of people who are
26:08growing find it hard to keep the same
26:10friends
26:12now that's a problematic line for most
26:14Indians
26:23>> and we are very fearful of that line.
26:25>> Yeah.
26:25>> But that is likely to happen. Why do you
26:27think we are fearful that when
26:29>> because we are a collectivist society
26:30that like we have to meet everybody's
26:33expectation. See back before social
26:35media
26:36>> it was impossible to keep up with all
26:38the friends. You move to a different
26:39city
26:40>> somewhere else. You move to a different
26:42country something else this now with
26:44social media like you are connected to
26:47everyone
26:48sub happy birthday
26:51right
26:53earlier it was impossible to do. We
26:56would evolve into the circles we were
26:58spending time with.
26:59>> Yeah.
26:59>> But social media has this weird thing of
27:01keeping us grounded to the same
27:04realities.
27:06>> But it's hard to keep up because you
27:08only have 24 hours.
27:09>> M,
27:09>> right?
27:10>> Do people tell you
27:11>> what that you have changed or you have
27:12grown or you have
27:13>> I'm sure they do. But I have a very
27:15selective filter on what I hear in life.
27:18Uh
27:19>> uh because for me I'm always going to be
27:23there for people who need me. M
27:25>> but my time
27:27is something that I protect because
27:30that's the currency you and I or anybody
27:33else has very less of right often
27:37sometimes it's easier to help somebody
27:39need something but giving time
27:41consistently right I think we have to be
27:43all in environments which is constantly
27:45growing us
27:47>> right uh for example the reason I am not
27:50in favor of work from home
27:53which is a very problematic topic
27:56is all the growth happens in the company
27:59of people you keep
28:01not about working somewhere if you work
28:04from home and you chose to be around
28:07five really smart people at your home
28:09who are working along with you I'm all
28:11for work from home
28:13where you will discuss something at
28:15lunch discuss something at dinner
28:17discuss something while playing a game
28:19with them uh and you're constantly
28:21making each other better then by all
28:23means work from home.
28:24>> M
28:25>> but if you are going to be in a place
28:28where I'm avoiding commute, I'm avoiding
28:32this rent.
28:39You've made a terrible decision for your
28:40life
28:42because remember all the times we
28:44learned was in the company of great
28:46people, right? And you're like, "Oh my
28:49god." Then we reflect on what these guys
28:51said or she said something so
28:53interesting or he said something so
28:54interesting and I'm like, "Wow." Like it
28:58hit me.
28:59>> Yeah.
29:00>> Right. And that becomes your system.
29:02>> True.
29:03>> But now I don't know uh you spend more
29:06time with reals and shots uh than really
29:10good people
29:11>> and therefore now you meet almost
29:13everyone they are like the last 10 reels
29:15that they have watched. like that's
29:16their average personality right now.
29:19That is not good because if you ask them
29:25there's no substance.
29:26>> Yeah, that is so true. That is so so
29:30true. You know, you tweeted something
29:32about it. You said mediocre people often
29:36have a clear tell. You'll often see them
29:39hanging out with other mediocre people
29:41probably because the A+ folks avoid
29:44them. Now when you said that most of the
29:47people are average of the five people
29:48they hang out with and if you come from
29:52a mediocre background and you are a
29:54mediocre person in how do you break out
29:56of this? How do you go to the A+
29:58category because A+ folks are avoiding
30:00them?
30:00>> Yeah. First of all A+ folks feel they're
30:04mediocre.
30:07>> I don't think if the mediocre people
30:09feel they are mediocre.
30:12That's number one. Number two is
30:15it's a relative term right there is no
30:18categorization plus a mediocre right
30:20it's a spectrum like and we all know
30:21yeah
30:22>> there's ranking system that exists on
30:23human beings for example uh if we have
30:26to rank kunal and raj on understanding
30:28of content you would be like miles ahead
30:32of me right on on some topics I would be
30:35miles ahead of you and that's what
30:37humans are right for example if both of
30:40us have to think about who's the best
30:41person to understand ours maybe it's not
30:44us it's a friend of ours who's very very
30:46good at it and they are miles ahead so
30:48there's a spectrum in each of these
30:50things but anybody who's excellent at
30:54anything is not accidentally excellent
30:56at anything
30:57>> nobody's gifted to be oh I am good at
30:59cars or I'm good at content
31:02>> right
31:03it happens because they are obsessive
31:06about this and get there right now if
31:10you're in a company of people who obsess
31:11about anything, you learn something from
31:13them.
31:14>> True.
31:15>> You meet a musician, you meet an
31:17athlete, you you meet a startup
31:20entrepreneur, you meet somebody who's
31:21building great content the way you're
31:23doing and you'll always learn, right?
31:26And is that the relationship? What I'm
31:29saying is that if a relationship is not
31:32teaching you something
31:35but are only validating you, then growth
31:38is limited. H
31:40>> how do you find these people who teach
31:42us
31:42>> they always exist uh I think people who
31:44make us uncomfortable are a good set
31:47>> that's a good
31:48>> right because if you think they are
31:51right but it offends you that's the
31:52exact person to spend time with
31:54>> but what we do is we judge the tone of
31:57their feedback I don't judge tone of
31:59feedback of anyone anybody who mocks me
32:03or takes a shot at me or whatever and if
32:06they have some good lesson
32:08I I will only remember the lesson. I
32:10will not remember what the tone was and
32:11I will not even remember who the person
32:12was.
32:14But people have so I often say this but
32:17I'll repeat it like people have
32:19substance and their own perception about
32:21themselves.
32:24It's easiest to offend people.
32:25>> Yeah.
32:26>> Right.
32:33>> Right.
32:34But this gap exists only when you have
32:37not improved this part
32:40right uh for for example uh if you told
32:46me that kunal you are so old right yeah
32:49I am older to you so it's a fact how can
32:52I be offended by that but a lot of
32:55people get offended by these words
32:58right I often say that oh kunal so if
33:00somebody calls you overweight but that's
33:02a act on all mathematical ways at the
33:06right answer but if I am like cancel
33:13so I think we have reached a point where
33:15we have taken so much pride in being
33:18offended the good news is you put
33:21content out there of being offended you
33:23get too many likes
33:25>> so you think it's a great quality to
33:28have
33:30so you see so many people on social
33:32media
33:34are per perpetually putting their
33:37outrage out there of being offended
33:39>> because multiple people like I also
33:41agree with this and then they want to be
33:44part of that tribe.
33:45>> Yeah.
33:46>> But the really good people
33:50or people who are growing people or
33:52compounding people have no time to mock
33:55someone
33:56or be offended by someone.
34:00They're too busy achieving what they
34:03need to achieve.
34:03>> They don't care.
34:04>> Right? Like I often say that
34:07if you bark back at a dog,
34:11are you a dog?
34:14>> It's as simple as that.
34:15>> You've you tweeted something on this.
34:17>> All mockery is accepting lower status. H
34:21>> Yeah, it's it's funny, right? But we
34:24will never
34:27mock somebody who's lower status than
34:29us. Imagine
34:32you are meeting with friends and you are
34:36mocking your staff who drives you.
34:40Have you ever seen that behavior?
34:43But we all get together and mock our
34:45bosses,
34:47mock politicians,
34:49mock somebody because it allows people
34:53to create a tribe.
34:59But that's a very cheap way to build
35:02bonds.
35:04>> But most people do that and they cherish
35:06it. Why?
35:06>> But most people are also not successful.
35:08No,
35:09>> you feel successful people don't gossip.
35:11>> They they gossip for a very different
35:12intent. They gossip to know information.
35:14>> Interesting.
35:15>> Or improve their intelligence about
35:16something.
35:17>> It's not their need.
35:19>> Yeah.
35:20>> Successful people actually are
35:22extraordinary at keeping secrets.
35:26You will never see a wealthy person
35:30who's terrible at keeping secrets.
35:32>> Agreed.
35:32>> You will say
35:35transfer.
35:37They become the hoarder of asymmetric
35:40insights and therefore you create trust
35:41with them.
35:43Think about all your friends that you
35:45say.
35:47You can't trust them. They might be fun,
35:49entertaining to go out with,
35:51>> but you would not share very intimate
35:54information with them that can be
35:55damaging to you.
35:56>> Yeah,
35:59>> that is so true. You share certain
36:01insights with people who you trust and
36:05who can keep secrets and they're often
36:07the people who are at the higher status
36:10than you or maybe in the group
36:12>> or are likely to be more successful in
36:13the future as well.
36:16>> Likely to be more. ucing people who are
36:18able to keep secrets at a young age.
36:20>> See uh
36:21>> are likely to be more successful in
36:23future.
36:23>> So let's just let's just break the all
36:25the people who are very successful or
36:28wealthy at least
36:30>> are going to be somebody who are
36:32extraordinary at keeping secrets.
36:35Right? Which means they don't feel the
36:36need.
36:40Yeah. Right. Most people the way they
36:44remain interesting is to gossip. M
36:47>> content and they have to tell people
36:49about it and that's how they remain
36:51interesting right some people you share
36:55something with them you know
36:57>> they hold it
37:00now I'm not saying that this cohort is
37:02likely to become successful because
37:04there are other factors that come into
37:05being successful but you will rarely see
37:07somebody who's successful who doesn't
37:08have this trait okay
37:12no fair so all wealthy people are good
37:15secret keepers
37:16That's what you're saying. So it's like
37:18a first level. First first
37:20>> in fact what you will see is that the
37:23moment second third generation who's not
37:25good at keeping secrets the wealth will
37:26again go away. It's like wealth. Yeah.
37:28Wealth is like flows
37:30forward.
37:31>> Have you seen that?
37:32>> Yeah. You will see it. Observe it next
37:34time.
37:36>> Like the second third generation is not
37:38good at keeping secrets. The money will
37:39flow through them.
37:40>> Were you good at keeping secrets from
37:42childhood? I think I was good at keeping
37:45people's trust.
37:47>> Explain.
37:47>> Uh when people share secrets and they
37:51can feel the trust that that was not
37:53going to be used against them,
37:56you become trustworthy.
37:58>> So it's not about secrets, it's about
38:00being more trustworthy.
38:01>> Yeah.
38:02>> Most wealthy people will always have a
38:05strong correlation of being trustworthy.
38:08Right? And I'm not saying they are
38:09generally trustworthy, but they are
38:11specifically trustworthy. For example,
38:13banks will trust them, investors will
38:14trust them, employees will trust them,
38:16right? So, uh I think I was always the
38:20person who people knew that the gossip
38:22would not move forward.
38:24I would never encourage it. I would
38:28never uh uh uh like I would treat this
38:32as a mark of respect that somebody
38:34shared something with me.
38:37>> Yeah.
38:37>> It's a little bit like being a
38:38goldsmith. H
38:41that if people are storing gold with you
38:45then it's
38:45>> you have to be somebody that they can be
38:47trusted with.
38:49>> But what's the difference? Let's say you
38:51you told me you had this when you were
38:53pretty young.
38:55People of your age, people in your group
38:58might not have this trait. What was the
39:01difference? What do you think is
39:02different?
39:02>> I think it probably helps to be an
39:03introvert. Like you're not trying to be
39:05interesting.
39:06>> But a lot of people try to be
39:07interesting. I know
39:08>> that's one of the things that society
39:09rewards also.
39:10>> Exactly. But I'm saying that if that
39:13being interesting comes by being the
39:15superconductor of information,
39:20right? It's unlikely to be creating
39:22respect. You'll be liked.
39:24>> Agreed.
39:25>> So I think the key metric is
39:28people are mostly trying to be liked,
39:31>> not respected. All social media has made
39:34likes happen. Respect.
39:37Why do you think people are people want
39:40to be liked more than they want to be
39:42respected? Because when you ask people,
39:44everybody will say they want to be
39:45respected, but their actions tell you
39:47otherwise.
39:48>> It's about how we shape the society,
39:50right? Uh respect is a long-term
39:52behavior, like is a short-term behavior,
39:55>> right?
39:57Can I do one thing and be respected? No.
40:01But I can make a nice joke and I can be
40:03liked by your entire office.
40:04>> Yeah. So the world is becoming more and
40:06more short-term
40:08and less and less long-term.
40:09>> Why?
40:10>> Cuz the societyy's rewarding that right
40:11now. But every now and then the society
40:13corrects itself.
40:14>> Okay?
40:15>> Then we realize, oh [ __ ] we can't be
40:16short-term. We have to become long-term.
40:19Right? Imagine the human invention of
40:23monogamy, relationships, marriage came
40:26from realizing, oh my god, we can't be
40:27short-term.
40:29It's not good for society. Look at
40:31religion.
40:33Every religion only does one thing.
40:36Makes you not do short-term behavior and
40:39make you do long-term behavior
40:42across any religion.
40:44>> Yeah.
40:44>> Tribal religion to organized religion.
40:48Any country, any state.
40:52Don't do short-term behavior.
40:55Do long-term behavior.
40:58>> So that's the core thing every human
41:00realizes. Okay. And how do you think
41:02religion got invented? Because they must
41:04have seen that humans are not doing
41:06well,
41:08right?
41:09For example, do not steal.
41:12>> Because it causes a cycle of retribution
41:14and destruction, violence, death, all of
41:18that stuff.
41:21So, do not steal is be more long-term.
41:25In fact, every human behavior that we
41:28consider as bad behavior is nothing but
41:29a short-term behavior.
41:32Now where does the short-term behavior
41:33come from? Right? We have two brains.
41:35The neoortex and amydala. Amigdala is
41:37the fight orflight animal brain as we
41:39call it or the lizard brain
41:41>> which is designed for short-term. In
41:44fact, all the joyful stuff that we
41:45experience is coming from the short-term
41:47brain.
41:47>> Yeah.
41:49>> Right. Being long-term
41:52makes us successful, makes us wealthy,
41:54makes us wise, makes us achieve
41:57long-term success, makes us healthy,
41:59builds our muscle, builds our
42:00reputation. All of that comes from
42:02there. In fact, that is the brain that
42:04tells the short brain to behave.
42:07>> Yeah.
42:07>> Calm down.
42:08>> And it keeps getting strengthened the
42:10more and more you do it,
42:10>> practice it. But the thing is that
42:14the more we encourage the smaller brain
42:16to become the boss
42:19and therefore you'll see people who have
42:21not very long-term about things, they
42:23are either very happy or very sad.
42:29>> Yeah.
42:29>> They have like extreme emotions,
42:32>> right?
42:35>> But people who are more neocortex
42:37oriented, they will say they're more
42:39balanced in both the situations.
42:42In fact, you will see that a lot of the
42:45uh stimulants or or or rather uh
42:48sedatives that we have are to suppress
42:51the neoortex.
42:53>> We are happier and giggly when we have
42:54alcohol,
42:56right?
42:58And that's exactly what it is
43:01to suspend the long-term mind. And
43:03therefore,
43:06we are likely to do more short-term
43:07behavior when we are drunk.
43:10or under some kind of a
43:12>> influence uh influence.
43:16>> So overall society is rewarding this.
43:18How do we change it?
43:19>> It's very hard. Uh society will have to
43:22realize the mistakes of it. It takes
43:23decades sometimes and
43:25>> we'll realize oh my god what have we
43:27done then we become slightly more
43:28conservative about things. We become
43:30more long-term about things.
43:31>> When did you realize that you need to be
43:33long-term not short-term?
43:36uh I think uh
43:39when you see like for example when the
43:41family went through financial crisis and
43:44uh I realized which short-term behavior
43:48caused this for the whole family right
43:50uh
43:52you just start thinking that you need to
43:54do more something more long-term in
43:56nature right and what I realized that
43:59what was long-term is skill reputation
44:02trust
44:04uh wisdom wisdom uh wealth, health
44:09uh and and just thinking more and more
44:11about these things, right? Uh mattered
44:14early on in life because
44:16I was never having the luxury. I have no
44:19I had no money to hang out with young
44:21friends and go for a party or being able
44:23to afford a trip. Like I didn't have the
44:26money for anything. Uh uh I probably
44:30must have taken a trip abroad
44:33for fun after many many many years.
44:37probably I was your age uh or slightly
44:40younger uh when I had done a lot of work
44:42to build first uh uh something and I
44:46think that for example we were thrown
44:50from our houses to ach
44:56loan before I traveled abroad for a
44:57vacation but the younger generation is
44:59doing the exact opposite
45:02>> because they have the support of
45:03somebody's house that they know at least
45:05my parents house is there or I can go
45:07back to their house or whatever. I
45:08didn't have any of that. So, I think
45:11sometimes not having anything long-term
45:13forces you to become long-term.
45:16>> You said most of us who are driven,
45:18they're escaping something. Were you
45:20escaping something?
45:21>> Yeah. escaping fear of uh
45:24>> poor uh uh see when you're also poor
45:27when you suddenly become poor in your
45:29family you will start seeing everybody
45:30distancing from you
45:32>> friends family nobody really wants to
45:35hang around with poor people
45:38uh especially if you have become poor
45:40through your own choices
45:43uh and like people try to keep you there
45:46but like you know that they don't
45:49like want to really hang with you. Yeah.
45:52And that drives you that okay you cannot
45:54be that right and you're escaping that
45:57in some ways but I think it becomes
45:58eventually the OCD that you want to
46:00continuously escape only right you're
46:02always thinking about I need to escape
46:03even more
46:04>> and further and further and further and
46:06it drives you
46:07>> so what is your fear today or what is
46:10escape what is escaping today
46:13>> I think my my fear always remains in
46:15that if I don't understand things
46:18for me not understanding how things work
46:22and
46:24becoming better at things that I don't
46:26have an understanding of is what drives
46:28me. Fear of irrelevance that I what if I
46:30don't understand the younger generation,
46:32right? Like what if I don't see what
46:35they're doing and and understand their
46:38patterns for example?
46:40Uh how is AI going to shape
46:43our behaviors? I'm very very interested
46:45in that. Right? Uh because this is a
46:49norm. M
46:51>> we we not realize it but maybe a large
46:55majority of people already having some
46:56version of relationship with their AI.
46:59>> Yeah.
47:00>> And that shapes humans different. For
47:02example, let's say you are a male or
47:04female and
47:06you have a more fulfilling relationship
47:09with your child.
47:13What if you find human relationships to
47:15be
47:16suboptimal?
47:18>> Highly possible.
47:20What will happen to human society then?
47:23Like if you don't think about these
47:25things, you're unlikely to do something
47:28about it or be aware of it before it
47:30happens.
47:32See, I'm if you reduce if you have the
47:34mindset of having less and less
47:35surprises about life,
47:38>> it'll require you to constantly be aware
47:40about things. But why is this need to
47:44understand this thing? Why is this need
47:45to predict or try to find a problem
47:48which is not there yet
47:50>> but might become a problem? What drives
47:53you to actually
47:55relationship?
47:57>> I think what will you do with it? For
47:59example, can you build a business with
48:01it? Can you understand something? Can
48:03you create something? Uh for example,
48:07when we made our ads for the first time
48:09and they broke the standard format of
48:11how ads were done and credit ads became
48:12the standard of doing things, we
48:15realized that people were done with the
48:18same format of ads, right? And you had
48:22to do something that makes them come
48:24awake and notice
48:26>> and want to watch it without being
48:28interrupted
48:29>> and content versus ad that mindset. So
48:34you need to understand that the world is
48:36getting bored right for example I had
48:38written something multiple years ago
48:39that people will find it very hard to
48:42watch movies because they addicted to
48:44short dopamine cycles now and I had
48:47tweeted like many years ago that we
48:49almost feel like a meditation
48:51>> to watch a movie now right and to
48:55predict that trend and say
48:58right so for example the new format of
49:00short drama is taking off right now it
49:02nothing Not people watching a movie with
49:0525 breaks.
49:07If you ask an average person how many
49:09times did you pause to finish a Netflix
49:11movie? The answer may be 2530.
49:15>> So there anyway is watching a movie like
49:18a short series.
49:20>> Yeah.
49:21>> Right. To continuously watch without
49:24being distracted without being on your
49:25phone for 2 hours
49:28is getting harder. Almost impossible. In
49:31fact, I'm worried how movies are going
49:33to do well now
49:36because
49:38people find it very very hard. In fact,
49:41I know that multiple OTTs are telling
49:44content creators that please make
49:46content that people can watch along with
49:47being on their phone.
49:49>> Yeah.
49:51>> So, how do we make money from this now?
49:54So, I see movies becoming grander
49:57>> then it affords for you to pay
49:59attention. So the movie budgets have to
50:00go crazier and you make a superhero
50:02movie and fantasy mythology movie and
50:04like you have to really raise the level.
50:07A regular story that used to be big hits
50:10before
50:11>> unlikely to work now.
50:14>> So you love to understand these patterns
50:16and
50:18>> makes sense make sense of them
50:20>> and then make sense of them. So maybe
50:22it'll turn into an insight for you to
50:25build a business or it's just awareness
50:27about society and it gives you a oh I
50:30understood it
50:31>> I understood it is a bigger kick
50:34okay right but just understand but it's
50:36not that for example when we started our
50:38chat I was asking you about how you're
50:40doing things and not that I'm going to
50:41ever come and compete in the business
50:43but I have to understand
50:46>> how are you getting it right if you have
50:48managed to get from x amount of revenue
50:51to a thousandx of that revenue right
50:53now.
50:56What do people like? What do people
50:58share? What causes a reaction? What
51:01makes people uh uh come back again and
51:04again? What kind of people come? I have
51:07to understand
51:08>> and I do that not for you. I will meet a
51:09musician and ask the same question.
51:11>> I would ask Rahul Dravid the same
51:14question when I've met him.
51:16What are the new athletes all about?
51:18Right. and and uh uh and I'm I'm I'm
51:21always asking on why people's world work
51:25the way they work.
51:26>> Yeah, I remember you asked me first time
51:29as wellm
51:35like all of these I remember that you do
51:37this.
51:38>> Do you think it's the primary
51:41trait or a fundamental trait for a lot
51:43of young people to become successful?
51:45>> No.
51:46>> Asking questions?
51:47>> No. I I think uh
51:50understanding things
51:53is more important than asking questions.
51:56One method of understanding things is
51:57asking questions.
51:58>> Okay,
51:58>> there are other ways to do that. For
52:00example, now chat GPT is a much more
52:03efficient method to understand things
52:06and your medium of understanding things
52:07may be that
52:09>> but sometimes counter questioning for
52:11example there are different ways to use
52:12charg for example if I ask JPD that
52:17please rate me on 10 on the quality of
52:20questions I've asked you so far amongst
52:22all the people most likely it will tell
52:25you up to amazing
52:29>> but if I asked,
52:31"Can you tell me what are the five ways
52:34I can ask better questions compared to
52:36the top 1% users on this platform? Help
52:41me identify the gaps." Much better
52:44answer.
52:45>> One is validation seeking. Second is
52:48feedback seeking,
52:49>> growth seeking.
52:50>> Growth seeking,
52:51blind spot seeking.
52:54It's extraordinary at blind spot
52:56seeking. For example, if you meet
52:58somebody uh for an interview and you
53:01convince them that I would like to
53:03record this interview for my own
53:06learning and recorded the whole thing
53:08and and ask the AI that
53:12what are the 10 things I sucked at? It
53:15might tell you question.
53:21You have this anxiety to answer quickly
53:25which you will not observe in yourself.
53:28I believe every single person who should
53:31have an AI auditor of their behavior
53:33consistently.
53:35>> Wow. Imagine a coach.
53:38Imagine you have a 400 IQ
53:42tool in your pocket
53:45or grammar fix.
53:50>> How do you use it? Give me one example.
53:53>> No, this is one example. So what I what
53:54I do is I I put
53:55>> something that helped you something that
53:58gave you feedback and you fixed on it
53:59and you
54:00>> multiple things
54:02all the time. All the time observing my
54:04interviews. I'll say did I do a good job
54:06of interviewing?
54:10>> Did I actually ask the right questions?
54:12Did I listen to the candidate or
54:14interrupted them too much?
54:16>> Job interview.
54:17>> Yeah. When I'm interviewing people, then
54:20uh I have asked uh to uh observe
54:24something that I have written as a
54:25strategy and say what are the things
54:27that I've not thought about.
54:32uh I have used it uh in manners where
54:35I've said that
54:37uh I am let's say I'm this MBTI I'm add
54:43can you
54:45convert
54:47this document for somebody who is this
54:49MBTI and this add and make me readable
54:52for me amazing
54:53>> nice
54:54>> it makes it exciting for you to read the
54:55same document
54:56>> nice
54:58>> uh can I have done things where I would
55:00I have a hypothesis
55:03and put the hypothesis out there. For
55:05example, I'll tell you one recent
55:07example.
55:08>> I had a feeling that all the countries
55:12that had extreme weather
55:15became great at planning
55:18and people who do not have extreme
55:20weather are not good at planning because
55:23extreme weather forces you to have
55:25long-term thinking, right?
55:32countries.
55:35Then I noticed that it those countries
55:38also have a very unique trait of not
55:41wearing
55:43wide range of colors.
55:45So people with extreme countries,
55:47extreme weather do not have very
55:48colorful
55:50color palette in their clothes.
55:55So when you go to countries let's say
55:57Russia you will see
55:59like only six shades
56:02but if you go to a place in Gujarat
56:05vibrant colors
56:07in their shirts and and then I I noticed
56:11that
56:14uh further that they are also
56:18le less likely to be emotionally
56:19expressive
56:20>> countries with extreme weather
56:21>> extreme weather and people who have less
56:23colors. And so I made this compound
56:25hypothesis and put it out there in
56:26charge GPT. I said,
56:28>> can you rate this on 10 and tell me five
56:31ways this may be wrong?
56:34Then it helped me sharpen.
56:36This is looking like 8 on 10, two on.
56:46And then I made one more hypothesis that
56:48it also makes them more wealthier. So
56:50high per capita comes from countries who
56:53are better at planning.
56:56>> Interesting.
56:57>> But in the past per capita income was
56:59higher in countries which were more
57:01resourceful and had less extreme
57:03weather.
57:04So if you go back in history all the
57:07countries with less extreme weather
57:10were more prosperous because that causes
57:12the agricultural yield to be better.
57:15And all the technological innovation and
57:17innovation which drives planning and
57:20efficiency
57:22came in countries with extreme weather
57:26>> long-term versus short-term.
57:28>> Mhm. And what I noticed is that many
57:31languages of countries with
57:36non-extreme weather does not have the
57:38word efficiency in their language.
57:42>> Give me an example. Which country? All
57:44the countries which are not extreme
57:45weather
57:46>> one example put it
57:48>> many Asian countries
57:51>> does not have word efficiency does not
57:53exist in their language
57:54>> Hindi man
58:00>> and there's a human thing that we only
58:04act or feel a word when we know the word
58:08>> or it exists in our vocabulary.
58:13Very interesting. This is how you use
58:16chat GB.
58:17>> Yeah.
58:18>> Wow. I'm impressed. Like this is so
58:20cool. I'm going to do that.
58:24Pretty sorted. Okay. Coming back to the
58:26conversation of
58:29we were talking about short-term,
58:30long-term escapism,
58:33fear, right? I want to ask you is there
58:38because you're talking also about
58:40wealthy countries and weather extreme
58:42countries and all of these combination.
58:44It's just a very basic question which is
58:45coming out of my head and it's like why
58:48do you think most people they work
58:50really really hard in whatever country
58:53they are still they remain poor?
58:56>> H it's a great question.
58:59Um
59:04uh
59:10I think um the frame to apply is what
59:16does your work solve?
59:20Right?
59:22If I'm a surgeon that is extraordinary
59:25doing bypass surgery,
59:28I work for a few hours
59:31and I make a lot of money
59:34because the problem I solve is almost
59:37life and death.
59:39>> Yeah.
59:41With a very high chance of somebody
59:42dying.
59:45But let's say I did some work which does
59:49not solve a large problem. In fact,
59:54then it's unlikely to create more
59:57wealth.
59:59So
1:00:02what does it solve and what do people
1:00:04value at? For example,
1:00:07let's say both of us get together
1:00:10and build a company that's going to
1:00:12solve
1:00:16um
1:00:22challenge in a healthy manner. We found
1:00:25a technology or a medication or some
1:00:29ayurdic medication just say you'll
1:00:34become very wealthy
1:00:35>> very very wealthy
1:00:37>> because it's a problem that people care
1:00:39a lot about.
1:00:44But let's say we build something that is
1:00:50by the way we'll become very wealthy but
1:00:52very hard problem. M
1:00:55Sometimes we'll have to give 15 20 years
1:00:58with no chance of success
1:01:01to solve that problem
1:01:02>> to solve this problem and therefore it
1:01:03will not achieve anything. But let's say
1:01:06you
1:01:07are are doing a lot of hard work and
1:01:12I don't know
1:01:14uh
1:01:17providing um XYZ service that and you
1:01:23could be easily replaced.
1:01:25>> Nobody cares,
1:01:29right?
1:01:31you will not be able to make more money,
1:01:40>> right? Uh
1:01:44and therefore,
1:01:45it's about what comes out of that
1:01:49achievement. For example, software
1:01:51engineering was very hard to learn and
1:01:53made a lot of money. A lot of people did
1:01:55software engineering because of that.
1:01:56But let's say if AI comes around and
1:01:58makes the tops of an engineer 10x more
1:02:00productive which means they don't need
1:02:01as many people that profession may not
1:02:04make the same amount of money but for
1:02:06some people
1:02:07>> it make them crazy amount of money. Same
1:02:09thing for doctors.
1:02:11Some doctors will become 10x
1:02:18>> using AI,
1:02:22>> right? So we have to think that way. Uh
1:02:26if hard work resulted in stuff, right?
1:02:29For example, let's say let's talk about
1:02:31your podcast, right?
1:02:33>> A lot of people are doing it.
1:02:34>> Exactly.
1:02:35>> In fact, I I firmly believe there are
1:02:37more people building podcasts than
1:02:38listening to podcasts. Uh uh
1:02:40>> it's a joke that a long time. Yeah. But
1:02:43I I do believe that because it it almost
1:02:45feels like a good status thing to do,
1:02:47right?
1:02:49>> Um but what you do to get you to the top
1:02:5550 in the world
1:02:58is very different, right? Nobody knows
1:03:01exactly what are the things that you do
1:03:04and sometimes you can't even explain
1:03:09I if you ever started a course on how to
1:03:12build successful podcast I can tell you
1:03:15it'll not be successful because you
1:03:18can't even explain many things that
1:03:19you've internalized
1:03:21in yourself
1:03:23for example I invest in startups I start
1:03:26I write a book on how to
1:03:29>> pick good ideas to invest in.
1:03:32I will not be able to explain it.
1:03:35>> Why?
1:03:35>> It's so internalized that you don't even
1:03:37know what the lessons are.
1:03:41>> So, how can somebody build this? How can
1:03:44they learn?
1:03:44>> Constant iteration. Think of yourself as
1:03:46an app.
1:03:48>> If you are an app, apps have two things,
1:03:51features and bugs.
1:03:54You have to enhance the features.
1:04:14successful
1:04:16cycle of releasing the apps is much
1:04:18faster.
1:04:21But isn't it driven out of then public
1:04:22validation?
1:04:23>> Not really. It's about truth seeeking on
1:04:26what is causing what.
1:04:27>> How do you differentiate between truth
1:04:29seeeking and validation? Because let's
1:04:30say you are for example if you ask
1:04:33people
1:04:34do you want to be healthy answer 100 or
1:04:37100.
1:04:38>> Yes.
1:04:39>> Are you doing something about being
1:04:40healthy 100 actually?
1:04:46So you to look at data and instincts
1:04:51because so many health startups fail
1:04:55because motivation.
1:04:58See wealth happens when you take
1:05:01something that people are truly
1:05:02motivated by and make it easy to do.
1:05:08Wealth gets destroyed
1:05:10when you keep making something easy that
1:05:13nobody cares about.
1:05:20And that's the thing.
1:05:22>> So most people remain poor because they
1:05:25are a not working on making themselves
1:05:28irreplaceable
1:05:30and b they are not creating something so
1:05:34valuable which a lot of people are
1:05:37motivated to get easily or will pay a
1:05:40lot for.
1:05:42How much would you pay for a
1:05:45a health situation of your family member
1:05:47improving versus couering from Bombay to
1:05:50Bangalore.
1:05:54So there's a range huge difference.
1:05:56>> There's a range. Think about human
1:05:58motivation as some gangotri
1:06:01at the core.
1:06:04It's basically simple.
1:06:06uh we want health, prosperity, status
1:06:12for ourselves and our family members.
1:06:14>> All the things we do can be answered in
1:06:16this.
1:06:17>> Yeah.
1:06:25Right. And businesses are nothing but
1:06:27building dams on each of these streams.
1:06:30Sometimes the stream is small, sometimes
1:06:32the river is bigger, sometimes you're
1:06:34building at Gangotri. For example, when
1:06:36I told you about the height thing
1:06:50and they may end up making [ __ ] tons of
1:06:52money,
1:06:53>> not necessarily. They they might find a
1:06:54very differentiated thing to do within
1:06:56that, right? For example, nobody's
1:06:58caring about that sector. Let's say you
1:07:00are, I don't know, becoming
1:07:01extraordinary building avocado
1:07:04>> and nobody has figured it out yet
1:07:07and you are realizing it's a big trend
1:07:10and you become the 80% market
1:07:11shareholder of avocado.
1:07:14So it became big. It's a regular avocado
1:07:20but k of a product that people are
1:07:22willing to pay higher price for
1:07:25in a way which makes you more money.
1:07:28>> Correct. So it's it boils down to just
1:07:32what's your differentiator
1:07:33>> or what do people value? What do people
1:07:36value and are they valuing it at that
1:07:39point of time or it's likely to sustain?
1:07:41For example, let's say you do something
1:07:42that is a hype.
1:07:44>> It'll die away.
1:07:46>> And how do you identify what's hype and
1:07:48what's something that's going to stay
1:07:50forever?
1:07:50>> Because what are people doing it for
1:07:52temporarily demonstrating status or
1:07:54something that people will truly value?
1:07:56For example, we talked about labubu as
1:07:58like a temporary way of showing that I
1:08:00am part of a unique status tribe.
1:08:02>> Mhm.
1:08:03>> Or height, which is a long-term
1:08:05sustainable thing, right? Health.
1:08:08>> But again, height is also status.
1:08:10>> Not necessarily. It's going to be
1:08:11long-term. This will not be a long-term
1:08:12thing cuz something else will become a
1:08:14trend.
1:08:14>> Height will not replace in the trend.
1:08:16>> No, I get that. But what I mean the
1:08:18ultimate emotion which is getting solved
1:08:19is status.
1:08:20>> Ultimately, everything is either of
1:08:22those three things I told you, right?
1:08:23It's a some version of social status,
1:08:26prosperity, and personal wellbeing,
1:08:29which is health.
1:08:30>> So, what's going to give you long-term
1:08:31this or short-term?
1:08:32>> Short-term of this. That's the way to
1:08:34think about it. But there are nuances to
1:08:35that. For example, let's say
1:08:38I built a lamp company, right? It gives
1:08:40a status in some ways, but uh it makes
1:08:45me feel that I'm a unique person. Let's
1:08:47say I have a nice coaster over here. It
1:08:48feels different. Uh
1:08:52taste test whatever but with enough
1:08:56people will care about it
1:08:59right but if I was doing a bypass
1:09:01specialization less people will care
1:09:03about because it's not a everybody's
1:09:04going through that
1:09:05>> so it's about multiplying the utility
1:09:09value of something and the audience size
1:09:12and their net worth to be able to afford
1:09:14it
1:09:19>> okay so this is basic that People need
1:09:21to understand,
1:09:23>> right?
1:09:23>> Another basic is a lot of people want to
1:09:26get rich.
1:09:26>> Mhm.
1:09:27>> A lot of people also admire and worship
1:09:30people with money, but they secretly
1:09:33pray also for their downfall.
1:09:36>> Not everywhere. Most in I'm talking
1:09:38about let's say a country like ours
1:09:40because you have also again some I think
1:09:42you've tweeted somewhere
1:09:49right. So people are somewhere they
1:09:52worship rich people yet they're praying
1:09:54for the downfall or they enjoy the
1:09:56downfall.
1:09:57>> Why?
1:09:57>> The thing is uh there are two ways.
1:09:59>> There are two ways to achieve status,
1:10:01right?
1:10:02>> Either
1:10:03I get ahead of someone or I wait for
1:10:06them to come to my level.
1:10:09It's very simple, right? So when we see
1:10:14some
1:10:16people who look to be extraordinary to
1:10:18become ordinary like us, it feels us it
1:10:21just gives us a sense of relief.
1:10:27Right? For example, we like to know
1:10:29gossip about their personal life so that
1:10:30we feel
1:10:35in fact a lot of successful people also
1:10:38demonstrate.
1:10:40So that you feel like
1:10:46>> but why do they wait for them to fall or
1:10:48like at least find faults?
1:10:50>> It's it's not about that. It's just that
1:10:52you have to find something that gives
1:10:53you relief in some ways, right? You feel
1:10:57they're not special and it's okay. See
1:11:00what I'm saying is that
1:11:03people who are trying to be successful
1:11:04don't care about these things.
1:11:07>> Right?
1:11:10If somebody has
1:11:13done something and achieved something
1:11:14and even if they become ultimate
1:11:16failures,
1:11:18the lessons are still invaluable.
1:11:22So are you interested in lessons or not,
1:11:26right? If you're interested only in
1:11:28their final status, then we are less
1:11:31likely to be interested in the lessons
1:11:32of that.
1:11:33>> And therefore is the case in most of the
1:11:35>> Yeah. But we can shape that. For
1:11:37example, I've often mentioned that we've
1:11:39built no successful documentaries or
1:11:43movies about successful achievers on
1:11:46what their journey was, especially
1:11:47entrepreneurs, right?
1:11:50But we have movie about every scamster,
1:11:52gangster, all of that because it's
1:11:55exciting.
1:11:56Can we just make it more powerful by
1:11:59just demonstrating
1:12:01these stories? Right. For example,
1:12:03you'll feel lot more content about
1:12:04western entrepreneurs. You will see
1:12:06story about everyone. Yeah. And we read
1:12:08their autobiographies and all of that.
1:12:10But and and that often tells me that
1:12:16um
1:12:18that
1:12:23we might change that, right? Maybe
1:12:25someone like you will produce a movie
1:12:27and uh or make a documentary series and
1:12:29you might identify a new customer need
1:12:32that the current world is not
1:12:33identifying
1:12:35and create that because uh if that
1:12:39starts happening
1:12:41we will automatically get really
1:12:45uh changing of what we care about
1:12:49right we will care less about oh this
1:12:52guy up down whatever we just care about
1:12:54Yeah, this is a good lesson. For
1:12:57example, if you read a story about how
1:12:59Spotify founder convinced music labels
1:13:02to join forces,
1:13:04it's a great lesson.
1:13:14solve a difficult problem
1:13:20because we are not we are we are more
1:13:22interested in content than being
1:13:24successful. No, so stories are more
1:13:27interesting.
1:13:29>> Why do you think it's like that?
1:13:31>> Because successful
1:13:34entertainment.
1:13:34>> Yeah. Because how are we respected in
1:13:36our community by being more interesting
1:13:37sometimes?
1:13:39Going back to the
1:13:40>> Yeah. We often call successful
1:13:50and somebody who comes and say, "Oh, I
1:13:52went on a date or
1:13:56I often wonder by the way sometimes that
1:13:58who are in perpetual new relationships
1:14:02often are trying to be interesting
1:14:04sometimes
1:14:06cuz it's new content for their friends."
1:14:08You've also said somewhere uh most
1:14:11Indians settle for average careers.
1:14:13>> H
1:14:13>> why why do you believe so? And why do
1:14:16you think Indians
1:14:17>> I I don't think I've said that we settle
1:14:20for average careers. I think we we
1:14:22settle for settling. I think what I mean
1:14:25by that is that
1:14:30right and it was a right decision at
1:14:32some point of time because we were very
1:14:34poor as a country and uh stability
1:14:39uh like we used to seek government jobs
1:14:42we still do because it provided
1:14:44stability
1:14:46right so it made sense to chase
1:14:50settlement settling
1:14:52>> but as you look at the next generation
1:14:54ation they are not choosing for settling
1:14:57because their family is settled they're
1:15:00not worried about
1:15:04>> will I have a place to stay
1:15:07so when when basics are taken care of we
1:15:10become slightly more ambitious so you
1:15:12feel now it's changed do you think
1:15:14that's also there's a flip side to it a
1:15:16lot of entrepreneurs complain about it
1:15:18on the podcast also they've complained
1:15:19that
1:15:20>> lot of young people because they don't
1:15:22care about settling They are so
1:15:24flirtatious with their careers. They're
1:15:26not building their depth in any one
1:15:28field. Yeah. See the thing is
1:15:31um
1:15:37if you are not worried about how you
1:15:41will be taken care of long term,
1:15:44>> it's okay to be short-term about things,
1:15:47right? You you are trying to jump
1:15:50between different things or whatever. So
1:15:52for example, younger generation is lot
1:15:54more driven by short-term approach to
1:15:57life cuz they have not seen anything
1:15:59long-term, right? Uh we've seen the
1:16:02average length of relationships also to
1:16:04come down, right? Like
1:16:06>> I often hear people saying that oh I was
1:16:08in this relationship for 8 months
1:16:11and and somebody who came from my
1:16:13generation or one before that
1:16:15>> it would sound absurd till somebody says
1:16:18that.
1:16:19>> So I think everybody's timeline has
1:16:20changed, right? Mhm.
1:16:22>> Uh
1:16:23and that is causing this thing of like
1:16:27what we feel of time
1:16:30right K 8 months. So I think that is
1:16:34changing uh and but
1:16:40career
1:16:42if you're not driven by
1:16:45oh my god I'm going to become
1:16:47useless and I'm going to have no money
1:16:50and no family to take care of actually
1:16:53all these people who are flirtatious
1:16:55with their career
1:16:57if their parents
1:16:59threw them out of the house or told them
1:17:02you have access to any of the money that
1:17:03they have made or their parents were
1:17:05short-term and without all their money,
1:17:09you would automatically become more
1:17:10long-term.
1:17:11>> 100% 100%.
1:17:14>> So they're they be afford they're able
1:17:17to afford being short-term because
1:17:19>> because some other people around them
1:17:21are being long-term.
1:17:24>> Do you think that
1:17:26[Music]
1:17:27that's what very common thing used to
1:17:29happen in the west? No. Westme getting
1:17:31people kids out at the age of 18 was
1:17:34exactly built for that reason
1:17:37right not just getting rid of them they
1:17:39were not just thrown out they were
1:17:41chopped off from all financially help
1:17:43should we do that should we kick our
1:17:44kids out
1:17:45>> I don't know what we want from life no
1:17:47who who decides right wrong I I don't
1:17:49know if you want them to become
1:17:51extraordinary successful yes you have to
1:17:53make them starve when I use the word
1:17:56starve is metaphorical is be deprived of
1:18:00support and resources.
1:18:05>> Yeah. Safety nets do not create always
1:18:09good athletes,
1:18:10right? Like
1:18:12>> uh the the the fear of almost dying is
1:18:16what makes you really come alive.
1:18:18>> Yeah. You use the word extraordinary.
1:18:21>> You want them to become extraordinary
1:18:23then make them starve. How to become
1:18:26extraordinary? If somebody who's
1:18:28watching this wants to become an
1:18:29extraordinary person,
1:18:31>> first of all, you shouldn't have time to
1:18:32watch this podcast.
1:18:39But I think the the the point around any
1:18:42big achievement comes from
1:18:46overcoming many many obstacles.
1:18:50Overcoming many many obstacles is when
1:18:52you are putting yourself out there
1:18:55and when you are giving it hours
1:18:57attention thing. For example, anybody
1:18:59who's built a great physique has not got
1:19:03it accidentally.
1:19:05>> Yeah.
1:19:05>> They were given extraordinary amount of
1:19:07attention, thinking, obsession,
1:19:10focus on food, workout, sleep, like it's
1:19:13their being
1:19:15which got gets them to that particular
1:19:17thing. Anybody who's got to any version
1:19:19of success as an entrepreneur, same
1:19:21anybody who's achieved any version of
1:19:23these things
1:19:26and
1:19:28they they are putting themselves out
1:19:31there and getting out of comfort zone,
1:19:33right? See, comfort zone is a very
1:19:36infertile land.
1:19:41Okay?
1:19:42But it keeps you safe.
1:19:47So if you want to be extraordinary just
1:19:51kill
1:19:52>> extraordinary anything like I'm not
1:19:54saying that you have to wealth is not
1:19:55the only metric I I don't know
1:19:57>> extraordinary I mean anything yeah
1:19:59anything
1:19:59>> but do you think that that means it'll
1:20:01require for you to just kill your
1:20:03comfort
1:20:05>> yeah it's impossible
1:20:07to be extraordinary in comfort zone
1:20:09>> what's the truth about discipline and
1:20:11ambition because a lot of people want to
1:20:15They think they're ambitious. They say
1:20:18that they're ambitious. I don't know if
1:20:20their actions match that or no.
1:20:21>> Mostly they don't.
1:20:23>> Uh
1:20:23>> so what do people misunderstand about?
1:20:25>> It's cool to say you're ambitious. No.
1:20:29Most ambitious people will never say
1:20:31they're ambitious.
1:20:34They are just doing stuff,
1:20:37building stuff.
1:20:39They are just out there.
1:20:43They don't write all these tag words on
1:20:46their Twitter or Instagram or LinkedIn.
1:20:49They're just doing stuff.
1:20:53The need to put so many labels to who we
1:20:55are.
1:20:56>> But when you ask them, they say they're
1:20:57ambitious.
1:20:58>> No. Will will they identify as an
1:21:00ambitious person? Yes. They're not
1:21:02trying to tell the world they're
1:21:03ambitious.
1:21:06>> Like fill their Instagram bio and
1:21:09LinkedIn bio with all these fancy
1:21:10keywords.
1:21:12What do you think people misunderstand
1:21:14about ambition
1:21:15and discipline?
1:21:17>> No, I think it's uh
1:21:21it's uh being it's what you are.
1:21:28It's like
1:21:31it's not a
1:21:33thing that you can
1:21:36a weak
1:21:42Do you think it's a trait or a skill or
1:21:44something that people can build? Like
1:21:47can they turn themselves into an
1:21:48ambitious person or no?
1:21:50I I think though
1:21:55drives are very hard to get externally.
1:21:59You can't get in drive from external
1:22:00purpose. But I do feel that if you are
1:22:03around ambitious people and they are a
1:22:06they feel the need to keep you around. M
1:22:09>> you'll become more ambitious.
1:22:11Let me put it this way. I think you can
1:22:13make somebody more ambitious.
1:22:15>> Okay.
1:22:15>> I don't think you going to make somebody
1:22:16ambitious.
1:22:18H
1:22:23>> So you're saying people are born
1:22:25ambitious or maybe something has
1:22:26happened to them over the years.
1:22:28>> A lot of people become ambitious later
1:22:29on in life when they can completely
1:22:32bankrupt at
1:22:33>> 30. Then they get something and they or
1:22:38they have some major relationship issues
1:22:40and that makes them so some life event
1:22:42causes them to see people maintain their
1:22:44slope.
1:22:50>> Yeah. True. You also say that Indians
1:22:53are high on aspiration but low on trust.
1:22:59Why do you say so? I don't think I've
1:23:01I've said it the way you're saying it,
1:23:03but
1:23:04uh I think every human is aspirational
1:23:08>> because
1:23:10nobody's happy with what they have.
1:23:14Actually, happiness comes from
1:23:16absolutely wanting what you have.
1:23:21Okay. Uh and progress comes from
1:23:24absolutely wanting what you don't have.
1:23:28>> Yeah.
1:23:29>> Okay. Uh but yeah
1:23:32uh when you think about trust, trust is
1:23:34a very complex thing, right? Trust comes
1:23:36from
1:23:38like if you think about trust, it's a
1:23:39more of a game theory problem where
1:23:43you could argue that
1:23:46it should benefit everybody to show good
1:23:49trustworthy behavior and then society
1:23:51becomes more trustworthy. Right?
1:23:54For example,
1:23:56um
1:23:59if the cost of being not trustworthy was
1:24:02very high
1:24:03>> in a country,
1:24:08then lot of people would be trustworthy,
1:24:12right?
1:24:13Uh for example,
1:24:17if the cost of breaking
1:24:20rules
1:24:22is dramatically going to cost you, we
1:24:25behave well.
1:24:26>> Yeah.
1:24:26>> Uh think about the teachers we had in
1:24:28school
1:24:31where we could escape not doing a
1:24:33homework or not doing an assignment or
1:24:35where you could not. You saw the
1:24:37compliance
1:24:38>> to be very different.
1:24:40>> Very very different.
1:24:42So often
1:24:45good trustworthy behavior comes from
1:24:47that. Let me give an example.
1:24:53Let's say a lot of people are not able
1:24:55to pay back their loans and there are
1:24:57two broad reasons. They do not have the
1:24:59ability. They have lost a job. They have
1:25:02done thing and some people do not have
1:25:03the intent.
1:25:07But what if we did something like that
1:25:10that
1:25:11all the people who have willfully
1:25:14defaulted
1:25:19we tell them you cannot take digatra you
1:25:21cannot do tatkal tickets.
1:25:26Now imagine five friends are going to
1:25:28the airport and four people go to datra
1:25:30and you're like oh no I'll go from here.
1:25:33>> Social embarrassment.
1:25:38What if
1:25:39landlords
1:25:42do not rent a property to somebody who
1:25:45has willfully defaulted
1:25:48on their credit scores.
1:25:49>> Mhm.
1:25:51>> Which happens by the way in most
1:25:52developed world. Credit scores are
1:25:54checked for before renting an apartment.
1:25:59What if
1:26:02people would not get married without
1:26:04checking credit scores?
1:26:08>> That's a good framework to put.
1:26:10>> And why wouldn't you want to check?
1:26:15What if it became normal?
1:26:19>> But why is it important for a country to
1:26:21start trusting a lot to build a country?
1:26:23>> It cannot be prosperous without
1:26:24trusting. See when country cannot be
1:26:27trusting then we all the transactions
1:26:29require too much of checking again and
1:26:32again. For example let's say if no
1:26:35builder could
1:26:38cause a damage to a buyer otherwise they
1:26:41would have severe punishments.
1:26:43M to buying property and land would
1:26:46become a trustworthy transaction versus
1:26:53there is so much friction 90%
1:26:59so economic prosperity
1:27:02but what if you knew
1:27:07and why do you think
1:27:12it's it takes every every country goes
1:27:13through and change and trust. For
1:27:15example, let's say uh look at the
1:27:18success of UPI,
1:27:19>> right? Only when it can consistently be
1:27:23reliable
1:27:25and prevent frauds and do everything,
1:27:27it'll be adopted by now close to 500
1:27:30million Indians use it.
1:27:31>> Why do you think we trust digital apps
1:27:34but not human beings as much?
1:27:36>> No, I think your app I don't think
1:27:38that's the case. I think we trust that
1:27:41can be verified to be consistent. So
1:27:44trust comes from four things. I often
1:27:46say this but I'll repeat it. Trust comes
1:27:49from the presence of four things. But
1:27:52it's not you need to be having all four
1:27:53in place. If visibly any of the four
1:27:56things are absent, you cannot trust
1:27:58something or someone. First is
1:28:00integrity.
1:28:02And integrity is not a
1:28:05integity integrity
1:28:08institution integrity.
1:28:11>> Second consistency
1:28:16consistency. You can predict them
1:28:18>> like a clockwork.
1:28:19>> Yeah.
1:28:21>> Uh uh uh third is like competence. Do
1:28:25they know? Right. Imagine you are trying
1:28:27to go for a uh paragliding
1:28:33and this guy's like uh sir you are my
1:28:37first client
1:28:42right you would not be interested in
1:28:44that. Uh and fourth is benevalence or
1:28:48non-self-centered behavior. If you knew
1:28:50that somebody is only self-centered
1:28:54you're like less likely to trust them.
1:28:55So it's not all four are needed but
1:28:59absence
1:29:00let's say the paragliding person example
1:29:05uh the person has integrity consistency
1:29:10self-centered competence question
1:29:16right now let's say you are investing
1:29:18with somebody you see competence
1:29:22you see uh consistency in their
1:29:25performance
1:29:26uh uh you see they are bare but they are
1:29:28like integrity is
1:29:29>> sort of shady
1:29:30>> shady so trust doesn't come that way so
1:29:34only when these four things are
1:29:36consistently done trust comes naturally
1:29:41okay let me give you an example just a
1:29:43thought experiment when you look at
1:29:46countries like us people who are who
1:29:49have built one sort of organization and
1:29:52they're known for certain thing they
1:29:55less likely to be trusted in something
1:29:57else. So for example, if Apple who's
1:30:00making phones, people trust them because
1:30:02they they've shown consistency and
1:30:04competence in phones. It's less likely
1:30:06for them to start selling salt. People
1:30:09will question them.
1:30:11>> Not really. They would not question. In
1:30:13fact, if you look at the history of US,
1:30:14they're exactly built that way.
1:30:16>> One company needs to do everything,
1:30:18>> right?
1:30:19>> Today, do you think they do that? No,
1:30:20they don't need to because the markets
1:30:21are deep enough for them to not focus to
1:30:24to be focused.
1:30:26>> So you think the conglomerate thing but
1:30:28okay
1:30:28>> so trust see concentration of trust
1:30:31happens in low trust societies.
1:30:33>> In India it happens.
1:30:34>> So because you will trust like 20% 20
1:30:37people 30 people contribute to 90% of
1:30:39all Bollywood revenue or entertainment
1:30:41revenue.
1:30:42>> Uh and then you will see uh super apps
1:30:46happen in low trust countries. doesn't
1:30:48happen in high trust countries. You do
1:30:50not see large conglomerates emerge in
1:30:53low trust countries or whatever. But if
1:30:54you go back in past, US also has all of
1:30:57these three things in the past because
1:30:59as a society found trust in the
1:31:01institutions,
1:31:03right? For example, if you have a bad
1:31:08fall at a cafe, doesn't matter what the
1:31:12cafe brand is, the government will
1:31:14protect you
1:31:15>> versus you thinking about your own
1:31:17protection because the institutions are
1:31:19very built for large scale.
1:31:22Automatically trust comes in everything,
1:31:25right? So what happens is
1:31:28for example if you go to LA every
1:31:31restaurant has to publish the
1:31:32certificate of their grading from the
1:31:34municipality on the door
1:31:38big
1:31:39>> sign ABCid
1:31:49and we mandated this to be kept on the
1:31:51door.
1:31:59Let me give you a different example.
1:32:01>> Yeah.
1:32:02>> Let's say
1:32:06restaurantat
1:32:08online
1:32:11restaurants.
1:32:13It's an aggregation of all online
1:32:15ratings
1:32:16and customers can now trust this sign
1:32:20because it's truly aggregation real time
1:32:23with AI. to give you the rating before
1:32:25you enter the restaurant.
1:32:28So let's say now we go to restaurants.
1:32:30Which restaurants will buy and which
1:32:31will not buy? Any guesses?
1:32:33>> Of course the ones who have high
1:32:34ratings.
1:32:34>> Correct.
1:32:47improve.
1:32:51But would you agree that in 2 years
1:32:54average restaurant quality will go up?
1:32:56>> Yeah.
1:32:57>> That we experience.
1:32:59It's as simple as that. But I was asking
1:33:01from a point of view of do you know any
1:33:03large company which has done multiple
1:33:06things and have been trusted in across
1:33:08sectors in US.
1:33:10So many examples right like uh uh you
1:33:13might think but for example Michelin is
1:33:15a guide for restaurant and also a tire
1:33:17company right so they are trusted in
1:33:19both the things it is what normal is for
1:33:22example Costco is a company most people
1:33:25buy their private label stuff
1:33:27>> right uh uh and they take the membership
1:33:30and buy their pulses it's a retailer
1:33:33right so it's very common
1:33:35>> okay
1:33:36>> uh uh but conglomerates
1:33:41uh
1:33:43work in countries that are not dep right
1:33:47for example say company country
1:33:5030 40 trillion to just building cheese
1:33:54company will build you a unicorn
1:33:57>> fair cheese but let's say if the country
1:34:01is not deep
1:34:03>> and Amul doing protein this that
1:34:06everything will make sense
1:34:09because you trust them
1:34:12>> to get that category right.
1:34:15But if that was the case, we have not
1:34:17built many of the brands that have come
1:34:18in the recent past. Right? So what you
1:34:21will see trust will start happening in
1:34:23multiple categories. Right? Now you've
1:34:24seen celebrities who've done protein
1:34:27have doing well, very well actually
1:34:29>> and you would say
1:34:32but that's not how trust works. Trust
1:34:35often works basis this for example let's
1:34:37say if I recommended a book right now
1:34:41>> it'll be bought
1:34:42>> yeah they trust you
1:34:45>> trust so there is something that trust
1:34:47comes in very unique ways but for
1:34:49example I give some kind of a workout
1:34:51routine you may not trust
1:34:54although it's not that I will not know
1:34:55about it but you will say
1:35:03simple
1:35:04>> so How do you trust like who are the
1:35:05trustworthy individuals and who are not?
1:35:07>> It's very simple. Uh people who are
1:35:10trustworthy
1:35:12are trustworthy within their org also.
1:35:14It's not outside. It's very rare to find
1:35:17somebody who's trusted outside when
1:35:19nobody in the team trust them.
1:35:22Trust starts in the building first.
1:35:24>> Mhm.
1:35:25For example, let's say
1:35:28people ask outside key is Raj trusted
1:35:32person but
1:35:43that it's unlikely the trust outside
1:35:46will exist because this news spreads
1:35:49>> very fast.
1:35:50>> Yeah.
1:35:54So any behavior that is non-rustworthy
1:35:56in nature is content. We talked about
1:35:59gossip before. Best gossiper.
1:36:03>> What type of person you've learned to
1:36:05never trust even if they're successful?
1:36:08>> Uh I mean I don't think uh it works that
1:36:11way in a simple term. You can trust them
1:36:13for different things. But for example,
1:36:16uh
1:36:18uh let's say when you're trying to trust
1:36:20in investing in somebody, right? Uh
1:36:25you're looking for
1:36:28how forthcoming they are when they are
1:36:31confronted with something.
1:36:34Let's say when you tell them
1:36:39if they justify go around about versus
1:36:41saying that no, you're right. That's not
1:36:43true. But let me explain why I said that
1:36:47and you buy that.
1:36:49So you you'll see very clearly
1:36:52that uh people who can be trusted
1:36:55long-term. Other example is
1:36:59uh let's say your team members
1:37:01>> people who are not
1:37:05fast at giving you bad news but fast at
1:37:07giving you good news.
1:37:09Eventually you will always have to watch
1:37:12your back with them.
1:37:17But their behavior must be a function of
1:37:19how you react also.
1:37:21If you are terrible reactor to bad news
1:37:25bad news
1:37:27true
1:37:28but if you say it's okay solve
1:37:38but that time if you react like a hyper
1:37:41emotional person
1:37:43you will never get bad news.
1:37:47So you feel
1:37:48>> think about uh our relationship with
1:37:51parents like who are we going to give
1:37:53bad news first
1:37:56or who are we not going to give bad news
1:37:57or or are we going to give bad news to
1:37:59our parents
1:38:03based it's it's based on the trust or or
1:38:05the reaction reaction they have given
1:38:07over the time.
1:38:08>> Mhm. M
1:38:10>> so you feel you can trust a person who
1:38:14accepts and reacts in a better way. No,
1:38:17I think people would differ.
1:38:18>> No, trust. Trust. I told you the four
1:38:20components cause trust. I'm just saying
1:38:22there are multiple traits
1:38:24that you feel. Okay. What is trust?
1:38:28>> Your ability to be vulnerable around
1:38:31somebody or something.
1:38:38That's trust.
1:38:42Do you think as a public figure you can
1:38:44be vulnerable and yet be trusted?
1:38:47If you are vulnerable that is fine but
1:38:49if you are not respected you can't be
1:38:51trusted as a public figure because
1:38:53ultimately people have to respect you
1:38:54also. Just likes are not enough.
1:38:59Fame is not enough.
1:39:02There are many people who are famous for
1:39:04being cringe.
1:39:04>> You don't respect them.
1:39:05>> You won't respect them.
1:39:08We we like watching clowns.
1:39:10>> Doesn't mean that we'll respect them.
1:39:13Would you wear
1:39:17t-shirt of somebody who's very cringe
1:39:20as a person? You might just once in a
1:39:23while watch their real and laugh and oh
1:39:25my god, I can't believe they said that.
1:39:32Respect is alo subjective. I'll talk
1:39:34about it.
1:39:35>> Okay. But I want to share something with
1:39:37you because you said vulnerability. I
1:39:39was speaking to somebody who trains and
1:39:42who have trained multiple presidents in
1:39:44US and one of the key insights he told
1:39:46me that they have in their training when
1:39:48they become president one of the first
1:39:49things they been told that they're not
1:39:51allowed to say sorry.
1:39:53>> Yes.
1:39:54>> So he was sharing in insight about
1:39:57Donald Trump that sometimes he knows
1:39:58that he's wrong but they're not allowed
1:40:01to say sorry because that makes them
1:40:03look weak.
1:40:03>> Yes. And that will make more people
1:40:06distrust them, not trust them.
1:40:08>> So then trust comes from being very
1:40:11powerful and not vulnerable.
1:40:12>> Just a good point. Uh it's about what is
1:40:15the role?
1:40:18If your role is to be a protector,
1:40:22it's different to be vulnerable. If your
1:40:24role is to be protecting my wealth,
1:40:26you can't say sorry.
1:40:33But if your role uh is to let's say
1:40:40uh
1:40:42generally lead as a manager and say that
1:40:44guys I'm sorry I should have handled
1:40:47this feedback better. I should have
1:40:48solved this problem for you better. It
1:40:50creates trust. You wonder that for
1:40:53example feedback Lena
1:40:55>> if you are not good at taking feedback
1:40:57it's going to be hard for people to
1:40:59trust. What if you're unapproachable for
1:41:00feedback?
1:41:02will not grow. Only some figures require
1:41:06you to maintain that stature. But do you
1:41:09think that the same people would not be
1:41:11saying trust to their close people
1:41:15>> otherwise they will never get feedback?
1:41:18How would they know what they are having
1:41:21their blind spots on? But you're right,
1:41:23the the respect has very interesting
1:41:25connotations. For example, when it comes
1:41:26to leaders that we want to have blind
1:41:29faith behind. So you'll see never you'll
1:41:33never see a godman ever say maybe
1:41:36they're very sure.
1:41:38>> Exactly. That's what I was coming to. So
1:41:41on some figures we expecting them to not
1:41:44have any doubt
1:41:50because we like to follow people who
1:41:53have backbone not people who are right
1:41:54and wrong. M
1:41:57>> do you think it works for celebrities,
1:41:59public figures as well?
1:42:00>> Yeah, of course it works for brands
1:42:02also. Some brands are luxury brands are
1:42:04unlikely to say sorry for your
1:42:06experience. Your good will be shipped in
1:42:073 days. No.
1:42:13>> Who should be arrogant and unapologetic
1:42:16about what they are and who should not
1:42:19be?
1:42:19>> I think that's a generic statement,
1:42:22right? uh
1:42:24people look up to people for different
1:42:26types of traits, right? If you study
1:42:28brand archetypes, there are 12 brand
1:42:29archetypes.
1:42:30>> Approachable, lovable, warm,
1:42:33>> uh uh ruler, creator, innovator,
1:42:36magician, there are multiple types.
1:42:38Everybody has a role and you have to fit
1:42:41that role, right? Uh
1:42:45look at the movie actors, we have
1:42:46different archetypes,
1:42:48right? Not saying sorry types.
1:42:52The warm, lovable, likable type, the
1:42:57intellectual type, the non-intellectual
1:43:00type, uh energy jovial type. These are
1:43:05all characters. They all exist
1:43:08and they all have different roles to
1:43:10play.
1:43:10>> Who will have the highest status likely
1:43:12to have highest status in a country like
1:43:14India? What do you think? uh uh somebody
1:43:17uh always status boils down to wealth or
1:43:22power
1:43:25>> the best status obviously both
1:43:27>> h
1:43:30what would your brand archetype be if
1:43:32you have to put it out in a word
1:43:34>> I don't know I I think people uh I think
1:43:37brand archetypes are not something that
1:43:38you can craft
1:43:40>> you are that
1:43:41>> yeah what do you think how do people
1:43:42perceive you
1:43:43>> I don't know maybe I should do a survey
1:43:45and find out how do people perceive.
1:43:46>> What's your guess?
1:43:47>> What's your guess?
1:43:48>> What do you think? I want to know it
1:43:49from you.
1:43:50>> I don't know. You tell me.
1:43:57You're you're very like a
1:44:02random intellect and wise kind of
1:44:05persona that you give at least on
1:44:08>> and
1:44:10sometimes I also feel that
1:44:13you purposely show that you don't take
1:44:15yourself seriously.
1:44:17>> Mhm.
1:44:18>> That's like I don't know how to fit that
1:44:20in into one thing but that's what you
1:44:22show. I actually don't take myself
1:44:23seriously. uh I think uh
1:44:25>> that's what we can perceive
1:44:27>> and uh that's because nothing really
1:44:30matters right eventually you may do
1:44:33everything in I don't know 50 100 years
1:44:36nobody will remember anything like you
1:44:39see history of people like who achieved
1:44:41extraordinary stuff
1:44:44like uh I was talking to somebody about
1:44:48uh the story of the founder of Bombay
1:44:50stock exchange I met some Bombay stock
1:44:52exchange employees they didn't even know
1:44:53about this person
1:44:55they work in that institution.
1:44:58>> So forget about who else will care about
1:45:01it.
1:45:02>> Yeah. So you don't take yourself
1:45:04seriously at all. I I don't think u I
1:45:08think we should take what we do
1:45:10seriously for the time that we are being
1:45:11around over here and do it with a lot of
1:45:13respect and dignity and a lot of
1:45:16integrity.
1:45:18But we to also accept that life is
1:45:20absolutely fragile.
1:45:22uh and humans keep evolving and moving
1:45:26on, right? And uh uh you should just be
1:45:31happy about what you did in the time
1:45:33that you had the gift of life.
1:45:35>> Mhm.
1:45:36>> Versus constantly worry about your
1:45:38legacy, your
1:45:41uh like long-term and all of that stuff.
1:45:45Uh and I'm not saying that you should
1:45:46not think about that your let's say
1:45:47you're building a company would you
1:45:49should want for it to last hundreds of
1:45:50years.
1:45:52But you also accept the mathematical
1:45:55order of that happening is close to
1:45:56zero.
1:46:00>> Have you thought sorry you
1:46:02>> sorry go ahead.
1:46:03>> Have you thought that what if you fail?
1:46:07>> I think the mathematical chance of that
1:46:11is high for every single individual.
1:46:14>> What do you do to continuously get lucky
1:46:18for not being failure? is is is
1:46:22something that you have to build uh
1:46:25through observing, pattern recognition,
1:46:28so on and so forth, right? And often you
1:46:31don't see that in people because
1:46:34uh uh
1:46:36they're not thinking about converting
1:46:38this into a long-term thing. For
1:46:39example, let's say a company is in the
1:46:40first 5 years,
1:46:42>> let's say Tata Group,
1:46:43>> okay,
1:46:43>> in the first five years, we're not
1:46:45thinking
1:46:51centuries
1:46:54they had to solve a very different
1:46:56problem
1:46:58sometimes of survival.
1:46:59>> Mhm.
1:47:01>> Right. Uh when you are raising a kid
1:47:04when it's 1 2 you're not thinking about
1:47:07oh lawyer doctor engineer like it's hard
1:47:11to although you wish for but you don't
1:47:13think about that you're like okay is the
1:47:17baby sick or not sick has got vaccinated
1:47:22not got vaccinated so on and so forth
1:47:24you're thinking about different things
1:47:28but I think as you're building companies
1:47:30and you reach a certain age, you think
1:47:31about it to be more long-lasting in
1:47:33nature. You don't think about taking
1:47:35shortcuts on many things.
1:47:37>> But have you thought ever,
1:47:40>> okay, let me put this in a very podcasty
1:47:42way
1:47:43>> that
1:47:47>> if someone was to write a book on you,
1:47:51>> I hope not.
1:47:52>> And the book title is like about your
1:47:54failure. Okay, let's just put it this
1:47:56way. We're doing an experiment.
1:47:57>> Correct. Correct. The book title is why
1:48:00I didn't make it.
1:48:02>> Perfect.
1:48:02>> What do you think would be the first
1:48:03chapter?
1:48:05>> Did not evolve.
1:48:07>> Explain.
1:48:08>> The world changed and I did not evolve
1:48:10to the change. I did not adapt. Did not
1:48:14learn. Did not fix my mistakes. Did not
1:48:18demonstrate discipline.
1:48:19>> Do you think you're not evolving at a
1:48:20pace that you should be evolving?
1:48:22>> Nobody is evolving at the pace the world
1:48:23is evolving at right now.
1:48:27Nobody. The world is changing too
1:48:30rapidly, too quickly.
1:48:33>> What gives you that this insight?
1:48:34>> Just look at everything that is
1:48:36happening around us.
1:48:37>> We often forget that
1:48:39>> like smartphones don't exist before a
1:48:41very long period of time. Internet did
1:48:42not exist for a very long period of
1:48:43time. Now we have AI and AI is evolving
1:48:46at a rate every two months that you
1:48:48cannot imagine.
1:48:50And the world is therefore evolving
1:48:52around that change of behavior. social
1:48:55media uh all the evidence of mental
1:48:58health, all the evidence of new types of
1:49:01uh behaviors that are coming on younger
1:49:03people, it's evolving at a very
1:49:05different rate. We don't know how to
1:49:09plan for it. If you had a teenager, what
1:49:14are you asking them to study?
1:49:17How do you know?
1:49:18>> Yeah.
1:49:20If you banned
1:49:22placements in MBA schools, MBA,
1:49:29what if you and I build a company that
1:49:30assures placement?
1:49:34>> We'll probably make more money than MBA
1:49:35schools.
1:49:36>> True 100%.
1:49:38>> So what I'm saying is that who knows?
1:49:41>> Who knows? Nobody knows.
1:49:43>> Evolution is
1:49:45>> Yeah. changing evolving and it's
1:49:47changing at a much faster rate. For
1:49:48example, our parents didn't have to
1:49:50learn all this thing and watch podcast
1:49:51and evolve so fast.
1:49:52>> Yeah.
1:49:54>> Yeah.
1:49:55>> In fact, grandparents had to evolve much
1:49:57lesser
1:49:58>> cuz the world's rate of change
1:50:01was manageable.
1:50:03>> Do you think more people will feel with
1:50:06all this change and evolution
1:50:09average number of people they'll get
1:50:10more successful or they'll fail more?
1:50:13>> I think the rate of failure and success
1:50:14has been consistently in the world.
1:50:15Doesn't matter what the time was. M
1:50:19>> but average
1:50:21wealth always grew, average prosperity
1:50:24always grew.
1:50:25>> The gap was always wide. By the way, we
1:50:27we often say gap between wealthy and not
1:50:31wealthy.
1:50:32>> Did you ever imagine the gap between
1:50:34kings and other people back in the day?
1:50:37The gap was multiple times more.
1:50:42We often say that oh countries were
1:50:44richer before they were looted. No, only
1:50:47the kings were richer.
1:50:50Rest of the people were not very rich.
1:50:54So this is where you have to say what is
1:50:57a purpose of a government? Find a way to
1:50:59let get everybody out and do well.
1:51:03Create prosperity for them. Create uh
1:51:07opportunity for them. And that's what
1:51:09has to happen. H
1:51:12because you're talking about government.
1:51:14It reminds me of another tweet that you
1:51:16did.
1:51:17>> All tweets about power and politics
1:51:19result in more quote tweets than any
1:51:22other form of tweet. Fastest way to be
1:51:24called stupid in life is to have an
1:51:27opinion about power or politics.
1:51:29>> Yeah.
1:51:30>> Why?
1:51:33I observed this. Uh so I wrote that
1:51:36because
1:51:39you will notice that people who talk a
1:51:42lot about politics
1:51:45are usually powerless in life
1:51:50and they feel the power by discussing
1:51:53politics a lot. I'm not saying that
1:51:56politics is not discussed by a lot of
1:51:58people. I'm saying people who are
1:51:59obsessively discussing that
1:52:02>> right especially if they're not
1:52:04journalists like journalists they are
1:52:05paid to discuss
1:52:08WhatsApp group
1:52:11you will notice a very specific pattern
1:52:12that usually not very powerful people
1:52:16>> that is true
1:52:18>> right uh and the reason of the quote
1:52:20tweet is saying that you make an opinion
1:52:22about something people will want to bash
1:52:24you because like it's this identity
1:52:27driven thing, right? Uh
1:52:32for example, if you questioned democracy
1:52:36as a thought experiment
1:52:41and you said that democracy should be
1:52:43different based on the average IQ of
1:52:47society,
1:52:48just try to write that you might almost
1:52:52get cancelled. M
1:52:56>> but
1:52:57>> but let's say if I told you that hey we
1:52:59have to
1:53:02>> hire CEOs of a company based on a voting
1:53:05system
1:53:08>> in a company
1:53:10would you bet on this company as an
1:53:11investor
1:53:12>> never terrible idea
1:53:18so that's how things work
1:53:21>> but when you put these opinions out
1:53:23there cuz when there's firm belief about
1:53:26something,
1:53:27>> it causes reactions
1:53:30>> especially from people who are otherwise
1:53:32not very powerful.
1:53:33>> Yeah,
1:53:35that's
1:53:38>> you know I was another experiment. I was
1:53:40just reading
1:53:41>> actually let me give another experiment.
1:53:42Just think about this.
1:53:44>> Just thought experiment.
1:53:45>> Yeah.
1:53:45>> Okay. Um
1:53:48>> let's say on Twitter uh
1:53:52after everybody's name their average IQ
1:53:55is shown
1:53:57>> and that is automatically derived
1:53:59through AI.
1:54:03>> What happens to social media?
1:54:08>> It actually becomes a better place.
1:54:10Honestly,
1:54:10>> I don't know. But
1:54:11>> I don't know.
1:54:12It'll be less profitable like way less
1:54:14profitable.
1:54:15>> I don't know. I don't know. It's not
1:54:16that all people who are with high IQ are
1:54:18noble
1:54:20>> but it'll be more entertaining for sure.
1:54:23>> I don't know. I I do believe it'll be a
1:54:25very interesting thought experiment.
1:54:27Right.
1:54:28>> And therefore,
1:54:30one of the things that I think about is
1:54:32thought experiments a lot. Second order
1:54:34thinking.
1:54:36>> Less than 1% of people can come up with
1:54:38good answers to this question that I
1:54:40said. M
1:54:42>> you can try it in all your interviews.
1:54:44We are your current team members.
1:54:47Tell them 10 things that is likely to
1:54:49happen if this is made mandatory in
1:54:52Twitter.
1:54:52>> Average IQ.
1:54:53>> Average IQ. No IQ of every person is
1:54:56shown next to their name.
1:54:58>> If that happens let's say kunal sha 80
1:55:01raj 140 anashu and now what happens in
1:55:06one year's time?
1:55:09Ask this question to your team members.
1:55:12Less than 10% of people will have great
1:55:15answers. And it's nothing to do with
1:55:18what their current role is, salary is,
1:55:20nothing to do with that.
1:55:25>> Why do you think people won't have an
1:55:27answer?
1:55:27>> Good answers. People have answers. India
1:55:30answers.
1:55:31Uh uh it is hard
1:55:37to think second third order.
1:55:43>> What if this and then what and then this
1:55:46>> and then what
1:55:47>> and very complex
1:55:49>> you would to be good at understanding
1:55:50behavior
1:55:51>> dynamics for your for example right now
1:55:53you said it'll be entertaining
1:55:55>> but I'll say why and you have to think
1:55:58>> and play in your head. Yeah,
1:56:00>> it takes while
1:56:02>> you know people should who are listening
1:56:03that they should comment their answers.
1:56:05Maybe we'll get some interesting answers
1:56:07or maybe we'll get similar answers
1:56:09similar answers but it's it's very hard
1:56:12it's very very hard. Do you think one
1:56:13thing which will happen if this happens?
1:56:15>> Actually think about it. Uh when I was
1:56:17tweeting something now
1:56:18>> initially
1:56:20when grock and perplexity became thing
1:56:24people would question
1:56:26is this true
1:56:28>> is this what he's saying is correct or
1:56:30not
1:56:31>> and only when I saw in the first 20 30
1:56:34times these AI tools said yes
1:56:37>> this person is saying something right
1:56:39this pattern is observed this is a proof
1:56:41of this I saw people stop doing it on my
1:56:44social media some people are asking is
1:56:46is this copied
1:56:48>> idea
1:56:49>> and I like it a lot that people do that
1:56:52and I saw that you could see people say
1:56:56it's mock but it's a it's an interesting
1:57:00instead of believing that this person is
1:57:04I know copying their ideas or thoughts
1:57:06or whatever you just ask this question
1:57:08>> so I went and
1:57:10like took my tweets and say how many of
1:57:12these are original how many are not
1:57:14original Yes, because I was not trying
1:57:16to validate myself. I was like, who else
1:57:19thought about this?
1:57:30But somebody has gone deep into it.
1:57:33>> For example, I was thinking about how do
1:57:35masses
1:57:37get persuaded. Then I said and then
1:57:39discovered
1:57:41Plateau or any of these guys who have
1:57:42written like books on this topic who
1:57:44have also written books on geometry,
1:57:46geography or human
1:57:49and you're like oh wow like this guy had
1:57:55and then you discover more such people
1:57:57>> who've done like 200 topics
1:58:02authorative books
1:58:05like
1:58:08barely
1:58:10Then you realize the power of
1:58:11distraction.
1:58:17Now we are shallow about 500 topics.
1:58:20Second question
1:58:24true.
1:58:26Do you think I'm still stuck on the IQ?
1:58:29Do you think IQ
1:58:32in long run people will stop giving
1:58:36importance to the to the IQ number? It's
1:58:39unlikely to happen because because
1:58:41there's a strong correlation. You will
1:58:43see a strong correlation of IQ and
1:58:44wealth, IQ and um power. You will see
1:58:49strong correlation in that. I'm not
1:58:51saying causation. IQ want to say
1:58:53guarantee you will get power or wealth.
1:58:56But you will see that a very high
1:58:58percentage of people who are wealthy or
1:59:01powerful have
1:59:03>> higher IQ.
1:59:04>> Agree? Right. So what you'll start
1:59:06noticing is that
1:59:11you will start taking respect opinions
1:59:12very differently. For example, if I
1:59:14asked an average person today in 2025,
1:59:18do you trust Chad GPT more than 90% of
1:59:20your friends? They might say yes.
1:59:25By 2030, very few friends will be
1:59:27smarter than Chad GPT.
1:59:30So then how will trust work
1:59:32>> in that world? Because many of our
1:59:35relationships come from taking advice
1:59:37from somebody, taking mentorship from
1:59:38somebody. Now I'm like bossain
1:59:43gossip,
1:59:46relationships might change materially.
1:59:51But then if you go with the rule of
1:59:52social media where someone who's
1:59:55relatable and is doing something
1:59:57extraordinary who feels like he's one of
2:00:00you, you would want to celebrate that
2:00:03person more.
2:00:04>> So people with lower IQ.
2:00:06>> So it's very interesting. Would you want
2:00:08to be seen as a relatable person's fan
2:00:11whose IQ is shown as low? Answer is no.
2:00:15>> No. But then you like to be a rebel and
2:00:17be like hey
2:00:19Then you would want to be saying just to
2:00:21justify my life.
2:00:22>> Yeah. But then you will stop getting
2:00:24respected
2:00:26because somewhere people will say
2:00:29like you
2:00:32>> publicly I'm already less respected.
2:00:34>> Correct. What I'm saying is that if I
2:00:36don't tweet
2:00:38then I can choose to be anonymous and do
2:00:40whatever I I'm doing. Right. But if I'm
2:00:42seen,
2:00:45you don't want to be seen.
2:00:48>> But you want to be seen supporting an
2:00:49underdog and actually be associated with
2:00:51an underdog who won.
2:00:52>> Perfect. What you will notice is that
2:00:54when you are doing that,
2:00:56>> you may not get the support that you
2:00:58think you will get
2:01:01>> from people who are of respect.
2:01:04>> See what what I'm trying to say is that
2:01:06one is what do I do? For example, it's
2:01:09not that people who have high IQ, high
2:01:12success, high power are not watching
2:01:15cringe content and memes. They are
2:01:16watching it. They're enjoying it,
2:01:18>> right?
2:01:20But sometimes
2:01:22like associating with that people wonder
2:01:24why are you doing that? For example,
2:01:26when I post meme people like I'll get
2:01:28DMs,
2:01:30>> you are such an inspirational figure
2:01:34and I'm like
2:01:37that's what it is. But I think that's
2:01:39association problem.
2:01:43[Laughter]
2:01:51But I I was coming from the point that
2:01:53if somebody with low IQ proves over time
2:01:57to be of high power, wealth and status
2:02:02regardless of having a low IQ, a lot of
2:02:05people would want to
2:02:07100%. So you will start seeing a pattern
2:02:10IQ.
2:02:14Then you might discover
2:02:23you might start seeing many other
2:02:24traits. So I agree with you, right? But
2:02:28it will still be detrimental but they
2:02:29may not even get chance sometimes
2:02:32>> because this data became public.
2:02:34>> Yeah.
2:02:34>> That's why I'm saying the thought
2:02:35experiment is interesting because would
2:02:37you give a chance to somebody?
2:02:40>> True. For example, let's say sometimes
2:02:42you might discover the person who makes
2:02:44the most amount of wealth in the stock
2:02:45market is actually not very high IQ.
2:02:48>> But now would you invest
2:02:50>> once their IQ is revealed
2:02:54>> although they have proven track record
2:02:57maybe you start doubting
2:02:59>> and therefore the thought experiment is
2:03:01interesting because
2:03:03it creates some very second order
2:03:04effects.
2:03:05>> Yeah. Because if you actually look at
2:03:07data also, most of the athletes who win,
2:03:10they have low IQ comparatively to a lot
2:03:12of high IQ.
2:03:13>> Yeah. Because their profession requires
2:03:15a very different thing. But you will
2:03:16might discover by the way that people
2:03:18who are actually top athletes are
2:03:20actually very good at pattern
2:03:21recognition and discipline.
2:03:23>> Agreed. Because you can't just rely on
2:03:28brute force to get to the top of the
2:03:31game because sub game eventually chess
2:03:37s
2:03:39you might break out by brute
2:03:42but the top games are always mind games.
2:03:45>> Yeah. Have you noticed any pattern in
2:03:48yourself?
2:03:49>> Mhm. which regardless of which company
2:03:52you're building or which age you are in
2:03:54or which category you are operating in
2:03:56they keep occurring to you again. Yeah.
2:03:59For example, I always look for efficient
2:04:00paths. I believe that there has to be a
2:04:05very efficient lazy method to achieve
2:04:07something. I'm always seeking that. I'm
2:04:10always trying to find is there a way to
2:04:13achieve this thing
2:04:15>> in the most energy efficient way. I
2:04:18often look look for those patterns. Um
2:04:21I've seen a pattern of
2:04:23constantly wanting to know why does
2:04:27something happen.
2:04:28One pattern I observe is that
2:04:31I like to challenge the team on we doing
2:04:35this this is going to be the outcome.
2:04:37>> M
2:04:38>> and I'm looking for somebody to prove me
2:04:39wrong
2:04:41because then I can trust them with more
2:04:43judgment.
2:04:43>> Yeah.
2:04:45Nice. Um, for example, let's say you can
2:04:49easily run a thing.
2:04:53Let's say you run a live contest 24
2:04:55hours
2:04:57>> and you do this 10 times
2:04:59>> and two people are consistently able to
2:05:01predict closest to the answer. You can
2:05:04trust them more.
2:05:06>> That's a good thing. I'll do it.
2:05:08>> You should do it. Let me know what
2:05:09happens. I'll absolutely do it because
2:05:12they do something that is getting them
2:05:15consistently right.
2:05:21And you can do it 24 hours.
2:05:26We'll check it. Whoever gets you give
2:05:28them some prize. Let's announce a 100
2:05:31rupees prize for everybody who gets it
2:05:32every 24 hours. But you observe in 10
2:05:35times who won the most times. M
2:05:38>> sometimes you might not get 10 times and
2:05:39you th 100 times who won the most times
2:05:43and then boom
2:05:45>> you start seeing patterns.
2:05:47>> Yeah.
2:05:47>> Okay. One loop was open. Respect.
2:05:52>> You said respect is primarily decided by
2:05:56power and power and money. Right?
2:05:59Something something of that sort. What
2:06:00did you say?
2:06:01>> Yeah.
2:06:03Like is wealth
2:06:04>> respect. Respect is a humans have a
2:06:07natural ranking systems in their head
2:06:10>> and we follow.
2:06:12>> Yeah.
2:06:13>> People we respect
2:06:14>> or we like either are the two reasons we
2:06:18follow.
2:06:20Respect may not have a large crowd. Love
2:06:23has a much more larger crowd
2:06:25of funny is more like like love like
2:06:28love has more following. Respect is
2:06:30lesser following because people who seek
2:06:33respect is a smaller cohort,
2:06:36>> right? Because
2:06:39for for example, will you ever beat
2:06:42people who are let's say putting funny
2:06:45content out there? It's going to be
2:06:47hard, very hard because people are
2:06:49trying to escape from their life and
2:06:51enjoy for a few minutes.
2:06:59So you to think that
2:07:02respect comes where you say okay this
2:07:03guy is seeing something and pattern and
2:07:06they they have doing something winning
2:07:08something getting something done
2:07:10achieving something and you see the
2:07:12pattern right uh you may not necessarily
2:07:18love them just because you respect them
2:07:22right uh some people are loved not
2:07:26respected some people are respected not
2:07:27loved
2:07:30Uh some people are loved and respected.
2:07:33That is a golden category, right? Uh
2:07:38and it's hard to get to that
2:07:41>> Yeah.
2:07:41>> with consistency. Respect usually is
2:07:44when you see people great at long-term
2:07:47behaviors.
2:07:50Respect, for example,
2:07:53I can make an ad to be liked.
2:07:59I make an ad and I get respected. No,
2:08:02people will see me for many many many
2:08:04years
2:08:07and then potentially build respect
2:08:11>> or they will have to see respect through
2:08:14association. If they see somebody else
2:08:18they respect respect somebody they will
2:08:20respect
2:08:22like respect.
2:08:25Why? Because people who are very
2:08:27respected
2:08:28>> don't easily respect people.
2:08:32>> They are very selective in their
2:08:33respect.
2:08:39>> But how do you win respect then?
2:08:41>> By demonstrating
2:08:42>> by demonstrating consistency. If you ask
2:08:45top cricketers
2:08:49how many people do you respect list?
2:08:53If you ask an average person, give me a
2:08:56list of people you respect
2:09:00because it's harder to get to that.
2:09:02Respect is a much harder game. Like is
2:09:04easier game.
2:09:06>> No, you said if you ask if I heard it
2:09:09correctly. If you you said if you ask a
2:09:11cricketer top
2:09:12>> top cricketer how many people in the
2:09:14planet the respect respect?
2:09:16>> Why would they respect lesser people
2:09:18than an average person?
2:09:19>> Because the bar is different now.
2:09:23for somebody to show that level of
2:09:26consistency and long-term behavior
2:09:28>> because they are at certain level they
2:09:31will see respect somewhere else. See
2:09:33they would respect a lot of people they
2:09:35would not admire a lot of people.
2:09:37>> So that's very interesting respect
2:09:40range right? Uh I if an elite cricketer
2:09:45saw somebody come at the age of 14 and
2:09:48hit a six m
2:09:50>> they'll admire
2:09:53they won't respect respect.
2:10:06They might see some early signs
2:10:11but there are so many people who have
2:10:14come and disappeared.
2:10:16>> Even though if they're wealthy and they
2:10:17end up becoming wealthy, people don't
2:10:19respect them because they've
2:10:20disappeared.
2:10:20>> Huh. So, so for example, if you if you
2:10:22make wealth through mediums that are not
2:10:25respect generating,
2:10:26>> not be respected as much.
2:10:30So back in the day you know I had
2:10:32tweeted something like most of the
2:10:34wealth was in India was built through
2:10:36opium
2:10:37>> especially Bombay
2:10:39>> the trade malva trade or
2:10:40>> malwa trade cover and and opium
2:10:45>> and all of them did extraordinary amount
2:10:48of philanthropic work to be respected. M
2:10:52>> majority of the for example
2:10:55the the zoo the public hospitals all of
2:10:58that are donated by opium dealers
2:11:01s school of art college this thing uh
2:11:06sir JJ and others were very big in in
2:11:09opium trade and by the way it was not
2:11:10illegal that time so you can't currently
2:11:13>> go and say
2:11:15no
2:11:15>> it's a legitimate business that time
2:11:19>> but Because you have to find reputation,
2:11:23right? You would create many things.
2:11:25>> M,
2:11:25>> right? Uh uh uh and and
2:11:30building libraries,
2:11:32building hospitals,
2:11:34building public institutions, public
2:11:36parks,
2:11:38doing philanthropic work was a way to
2:11:41earn respect.
2:11:44So you will see that people who are
2:11:48uh u uh wealthy may not always be
2:11:52respected.
2:11:53>> Yeah.
2:11:53>> They found ways to get respected
2:11:55>> and that's why they do certain things to
2:11:57be respected. What do you chase in life?
2:11:59Freedom, money, power, respect,
2:12:03fame.
2:12:04>> I don't know. I I think I I'm
2:12:06I think I chase knowledge is what I have
2:12:10found as a more reliable answer. all
2:12:12these things I often question this that
2:12:14what drives me I think I like to
2:12:16understand things and implement things
2:12:18and create things
2:12:21uh
2:12:23like I'm very averse to fame like I
2:12:25often when people say okay can I take a
2:12:27selfie my immediate reaction is like no
2:12:29please like don't like you met me just
2:12:32say hello to me something like I don't
2:12:35want that and I I do that quite often
2:12:37and I feel bad because people are really
2:12:40excited to see you and want to take a
2:12:41selfie with you but I'm like like can I
2:12:45say no I'm sorry uh and uh uh like what
2:12:51I've seen a only good use of wealth I've
2:12:53seen is access
2:12:55because somebody who has to decide to
2:12:57meet you has to see
2:13:07for example for you like when you
2:13:08started uh uh we did the podcast. How
2:13:11many years ago?
2:13:12>> Three and a half years ago.
2:13:13>> Three and a half years ago. Four maybe.
2:13:14>> Four.
2:13:16>> Now your ability to get meetings with
2:13:18people has dramatically changed because
2:13:21a you have access, distribution,
2:13:24fame, all of that which helps you.
2:13:26>> True.
2:13:28>> Very different.
2:13:29>> And it every new thing unlocks a new
2:13:31thing. It is very powerful.
2:13:34>> Yeah.
2:13:37>> So I think
2:13:42Capital in my case social capital.
2:13:44>> So social capital capital some level say
2:13:48but for example they might want to meet
2:13:52you. Oh, what if through this I might
2:13:54appear on this podcast
2:13:58like some association benefit that they
2:13:59might seek from you with capital
2:14:01somebody who's trying to meet you is
2:14:03like okay will you get access of
2:14:05something
2:14:06>> sometimes is knowledge but I've seen
2:14:08that when you chase knowledge and
2:14:10nothing else people respect you more
2:14:13>> 100%. So what I have seen is that
2:14:15whenever I have reached out to somebody
2:14:16and say
2:14:18like let's say I meet somebody from big
2:14:20from the media industry and I say I only
2:14:21want to meet you to understand how
2:14:23movies work this work or whatever and
2:14:26let's say when they invite me to a party
2:14:28and I say no
2:14:30they respect you more because you're not
2:14:32trying to take advantage of this person
2:14:34to get access to that world
2:14:37right for example we've sponsored
2:14:40IPL for many years I've gone for no
2:14:42party I've gone for No things. I've not
2:14:45even gone for matches, right? Because
2:14:47you'll be very clear.
2:14:49>> Okay.
2:14:49>> What do you want? But would I want to
2:14:51meet an athlete in a personal setting to
2:14:55ask them questions about what makes
2:14:57something special? Absolutely. Yes.
2:15:01>> But you have no fascination towards
2:15:04being seen with them so that you are
2:15:07being seen more.
2:15:08>> Yeah. Or get access to that part of
2:15:10their life which may not be appealing to
2:15:12me. M
2:15:13>> I definitely want access to their brain.
2:15:15>> Glamour doesn't excite you.
2:15:17>> Yeah, it doesn't because I think it's
2:15:18very short-lived. It's one of those
2:15:20things which is depreciating asset.
2:15:24>> I like appreciating assets.
2:15:27>> Interesting way to look at things.
2:15:29>> Yeah. Long-term. Glamour is short-term.
2:15:31>> I like long-term things. If I learn
2:15:34something from an elite cricketer or
2:15:35elite athlete, elite music musician,
2:15:37elite something, it'll stay with me
2:15:39forever.
2:15:41It'll shape me. It will mold me. It will
2:15:43create a new dimension in me.
2:15:46>> Can I share something?
2:15:47>> Mhm.
2:15:49>> I've often questioned myself
2:15:51for being like the way you are.
2:15:53>> Mhm.
2:15:54>> I similarly because of nature of the
2:15:56work, I get invited to XYZ parties to
2:16:00the glamour world and I 90% of the time
2:16:02say no. Sometimes I go there because
2:16:05just I want to see what's in that world.
2:16:07M I want to understand and meet certain
2:16:09people who I can only get access through
2:16:11that event and I yet want to be so low
2:16:14key that I just repel to just no
2:16:17pictures, no nothing. I don't want to be
2:16:19seen anywhere and I always used to feel
2:16:20that maybe it's some kind of complex
2:16:23inside me which is making me not seen in
2:16:26the public. I don't know. I would always
2:16:29ask questions.
2:16:30>> I go there for actually the information
2:16:32and knowledge and connecting with
2:16:34people. Ultimately people
2:16:37seek what they want and they get it
2:16:42right for example I have requested
2:16:46multiple people who give awards or
2:16:48whatever I don't want to be given I'm
2:16:50very happy to help you with anything in
2:16:51life but don't nominate me or give me
2:16:53anything because
2:16:56it doesn't help when you're building a
2:16:58business you have to prove you can scale
2:17:00you can build profit you can give return
2:17:02to your shareholders you can help your
2:17:04employees become wealthy, all of that
2:17:07stuff.
2:17:07>> Yeah.
2:17:10>> Yeah.
2:17:12>> So, I I've seen that
2:17:15if you're doing well, no people of
2:17:17respect know you.
2:17:19>> True.
2:17:20>> Number
2:17:21you meet some people, they don't know
2:17:24you because you won some award. They
2:17:25know your numbers.
2:17:27>> True.
2:17:28So true.
2:17:30>> So this is a respect respect game
2:17:32recognizes game. M
2:17:34>> they are not recognizing you because you
2:17:36some won some award. No chance.
2:17:38>> Yeah. Vanity metric they don't give a
2:17:40[ __ ] about.
2:17:40>> Yeah. They they actually look at it in
2:17:43negative manner.
2:17:47That this person is chasing vanity so
2:17:49maybe the substance and value will be
2:17:50lesser.
2:17:51>> Yeah.
2:17:53>> What's the biggest misunderstanding
2:17:54about you?
2:17:58>> I I often think about this and ask
2:18:00people about it. For example, a lot of
2:18:02people who come to work at CRED, they
2:18:06think I'm some intimidating like Twitter
2:18:08personality, but I'm like working and
2:18:10deeply involved at work. So, they're
2:18:12like, "Okay, they thought I'm like some
2:18:13guy who's not in office and like some
2:18:17uh uh guy who's I don't know goes on
2:18:20speaker and speaks to the team, big
2:18:22boss."
2:18:24Uh uh that's one thing I've seen
2:18:26consistently. The second is that
2:18:28>> because I don't use
2:18:30uh I I come from a generation where
2:18:32emojis is not natural to me anywhere. So
2:18:34people think that I'm rude
2:18:36>> or arrogant uh because I don't and I
2:18:39speak in
2:18:41lesser words.
2:18:42>> Yeah. Chris,
2:18:43>> so people who are efficient in
2:18:45communication are always perceived to be
2:18:47rude.
2:18:50>> But you're not rude. You're just
2:18:51>> I I I am I'm just the way I am. Right.
2:18:54Uh and and uh
2:18:56>> but do you think you're rude?
2:18:57>> I don't think so because see rude people
2:19:00who are rude are trying to hurt somebody
2:19:03and they are trying to evoke a reaction
2:19:04from somebody.
2:19:06I am less likely to notice either of the
2:19:10>> two.
2:19:12I like to
2:19:15say that it should help you.
2:19:17>> Yeah. If you spend 10 minutes with me,
2:19:19she'll help you
2:19:21versus all this words like rude mean.
2:19:25It doesn't matter.
2:19:26>> So now that you know that people
2:19:28misunderstand this thing about you, does
2:19:30it bother you? Do you ever want to
2:19:32change it or you like [ __ ] it, I'm the
2:19:34way I am?
2:19:35>> I think anything that would impact
2:19:39anything long-term, I would want to
2:19:40change it. I haven't thought this impact
2:19:42because there are enough people who tell
2:19:44you it's a nice guy. M
2:19:46>> I don't think if people at work felt the
2:19:50same thing after joining then it will
2:19:53become the image that I have.
2:19:54>> Yeah.
2:19:56>> But they'll say
2:20:00I think people build perceptions basis
2:20:03the version of they they see out there.
2:20:05For example, when I post
2:20:08like I I'll tell you a funny story. I I
2:20:11once was at a cafe and this person
2:20:13walked up to me and said, "Oh, please
2:20:15can I take a selfie with you? Uh, you
2:20:17are my favorite memer."
2:20:19>> This person had no clue.
2:20:23>> I do something else in life
2:20:25>> really.
2:20:26>> And I was personally very happy about it
2:20:28because I was like
2:20:30an achievement that I did not ever see
2:20:33coming. And it's like, oh, my sister is
2:20:34going to be so jealous that I got a
2:20:36chance to uh uh meet you and and I'm
2:20:41like, this is interesting, right? So I
2:20:44think often that like people build a
2:20:48perception about you and sometimes you
2:20:50like people have a different perception
2:20:51about you somewhere else altogether.
2:20:53Like this person doesn't think about
2:20:54anything else except memes.
2:20:57>> I post memes.
2:21:01>> That's incredible.
2:21:02hilarious. But I I loved it. I loved it.
2:21:05I was like, that is so cool.
2:21:08See, now that when you go in rooms,
2:21:10you're respected and people admire you
2:21:12for any number of things. What's a part
2:21:15of you which you which you still want to
2:21:18hide?
2:21:19>> Ah, I think uh I don't think I have a
2:21:22part in me left. For example, I used to
2:21:26be very I I I did not think till I
2:21:31became
2:21:33I would say decently successful in terms
2:21:35of money. I ever talked about that I was
2:21:38poor or had these challenges or these
2:21:43things because I used to be afraid that
2:21:46I will be treated with sympathy
2:21:52and then and I didn't want anybody to
2:21:55give me an opportunity basis sympathy
2:21:59because it's not merit- driven then
2:22:02>> it's a little bit of a charity that
2:22:03somebody is doing for you.
2:22:05So I think I that's the only part I used
2:22:07to hide consciously that not talk about
2:22:12not having money like I literally
2:22:15remember that I had a for the entire
2:22:18college but I had one shoe that was torn
2:22:20and I must have repaired it hundreds of
2:22:23times.
2:22:25uh I wouldn't want to make that the
2:22:28story that somebody will give me an
2:22:29opportunity but now when I reflect back
2:22:33it it is something that I'm okay to talk
2:22:35about earlier I would be like no you you
2:22:39have to pretend that you were not poor
2:22:42>> and what changed
2:22:43>> just accepting that it's just what made
2:22:47me who I am
2:22:49but that time I think I was right in not
2:22:52sharing that earlier Because
2:22:55I don't think anybody should seek
2:22:56sympathy.
2:22:59I think as as a culture
2:23:03like we had too many sad songs and too
2:23:06many self-sympathizing stuff. I don't
2:23:09think respect comes
2:23:12to people who are constantly seeking
2:23:14sympathy.
2:23:16>> You might like them, you might help
2:23:18them. You can't respect them.
2:23:23So true.
2:23:26It's such a
2:23:28a lot of people use sympathy as a
2:23:30strategy and then later realized that
2:23:33the only thing it got them was likes,
2:23:35not the respect.
2:23:36>> Yeah. Or help but not respect.
2:23:40>> Okay, we're going to go through all the
2:23:42tweets now.
2:23:42>> Oh my god.
2:23:43>> And you have to explain these things to
2:23:45me.
2:23:46But some of these things you have
2:23:48already done. But still,
2:23:51so you said success isn't a club you
2:23:55enter through inheritance.
2:23:58What do you mean by this?
2:24:01>> I think it's earned, right? Success is
2:24:04an earned thing. It's not what you get.
2:24:06Just just because let's say think about
2:24:09nepotism.
2:24:11>> You can get your first movie through
2:24:13influence. You can't get your 10th movie
2:24:16through influence.
2:24:18It might give you an entry ticket.
2:24:21>> Let's say being rich might get you to a
2:24:23good college. Doesn't make you
2:24:24successful in life.
2:24:27So what I mean by that is that it it is
2:24:31not coming through inheritance. It is
2:24:33something that is earned.
2:24:35>> Then what do you mean by success here?
2:24:37Because a lot of people actually measure
2:24:39success by money.
2:24:41>> Yeah. Power that you have. Inheritance
2:24:43gives you both of them.
2:24:44>> It gives you both. For example, but
2:24:45let's say if you do not have built an
2:24:49ability to create wealth, you'll most
2:24:51likely lose wealth.
2:24:52>> So most wealth disappears in third
2:24:54fourth generation
2:24:56>> in most families. Yeah.
2:24:58>> Because of this.
2:25:02>> So it's
2:25:04unless you build an ability to create
2:25:06wealth
2:25:10inherit.
2:25:13I think you'll see people who have not
2:25:15people have inherited money and not
2:25:16built their own. They're not respected
2:25:18as much. People see it.
2:25:24But in extreme large families, you don't
2:25:25even know.
2:25:26>> You'll find out their employees will
2:25:28know sir to office video game.
2:25:33>> It's true.
2:25:33>> And the word will come out.
2:25:35>> Yeah.
2:25:38>> So no amount of money can actually get
2:25:40you
2:25:40>> Mhm. respect for success.
2:25:42>> Unless you are seen growing
2:25:46and compounding and sacrificing and
2:25:48taking risks.
2:25:52Fair.
2:25:53Okay. Here's another one. Those who are
2:25:57greedy to understand the world get more
2:25:59money.
2:26:00>> Those who are greed greedy to understand
2:26:03the world get more money in life than
2:26:04those who are greedy to get more money.
2:26:06>> Yeah.
2:26:08Uh I think being greedy to money is
2:26:13saying that I want to be this guy but I
2:26:15don't want to find the process of how do
2:26:18I get there right but people who are
2:26:20greedy to understand the world figure
2:26:21out
2:26:23>> and money just comes as an outcome of
2:26:25that or success comes as an outcome
2:26:27right for example let's say I I'm an
2:26:30aspiring podcaster I want to I want to
2:26:33be like Raj over here and like oh my god
2:26:36I'm going to beat all the numbers he
2:26:38has, but I'm no interest in the process
2:26:41of how he picks his guests and how he
2:26:44gets his content, what does he do, all
2:26:47of that. And I'm not trying to
2:26:48understand what makes things viral. I'm
2:26:50not trying to understand any of that.
2:26:53And I'm only greedy for the end outcome.
2:26:55I'm less likely to get it. But people
2:26:58are greedy to understand the world.
2:27:00>> It starts like that.
2:27:01>> Sorry. Don't you think it starts with
2:27:04just not necessarily because uh
2:27:09sometimes you just discover money as an
2:27:11accidental outcome of some of the things
2:27:13that you're pursuing. Did you expect you
2:27:14to make so much revenue when you
2:27:15started?
2:27:16>> No.
2:27:16>> Did you do this for money?
2:27:18>> No, never.
2:27:20>> You're making a lot of money that as an
2:27:22outcome of what you are still doing for
2:27:24your passion.
2:27:25>> I still don't believe this is making
2:27:27this much money.
2:27:28>> Correct. But the thing is that if you
2:27:30thought
2:27:38that's fine,
2:27:41but unless they understanding how things
2:27:43work. Business is done to make money.
2:27:46There's no question about that. But you
2:27:47do not make a lot of money if you don't
2:27:49understand things.
2:27:50>> So you have to be greedy of
2:27:51understanding things.
2:27:54Being greedy for money doesn't create
2:27:56understanding. the the core loop which
2:27:58compounds is that for example oh do you
2:28:01want to get a six-pack yeah everybody
2:28:03will raise hand
2:28:04[Music]
2:28:06>> but that's not the thing like just the
2:28:09discipline the understanding the choices
2:28:12is what creates the outcome no
2:28:15I agree with you but I think this for
2:28:18most people the starting point is I just
2:28:20want to make money I don't care about
2:28:22anything else because I just want to get
2:28:24out of the financial rut of my family
2:28:26>> that's That's that is good starting
2:28:28point. It's not what will get you
2:28:31anything.
2:28:32>> It'll get you some money in the
2:28:34beginning.
2:28:34>> Mushkiller.
2:28:36If your understanding is not growing
2:28:41to make money, you need
2:28:42>> the real currency is understanding and
2:28:44skills.
2:28:46Money is just a score.
2:28:48>> Yeah.
2:28:49It's like
2:28:59best athletes.
2:29:02>> Yeah.
2:29:03>> You know, just a random fact because you
2:29:05talked about sixacks. I was reading
2:29:07yesterday. I don't know how true that
2:29:08stat is. Uh in America, you're 4x more
2:29:12likely to become a millionaire than to
2:29:13have a six-pack.
2:29:14>> Yeah. I think it's going to become 10 to
2:29:1612x now because the wealth is constantly
2:29:19growing.
2:29:20>> The percent of people who are having six
2:29:21pack is consistently remain the same.
2:29:25>> So we you you said processdriven
2:29:29understanding
2:29:30>> right? Hm. Do you feel with the way AI
2:29:34is
2:29:36becoming more and more prevalent in our
2:29:38lives,
2:29:39we are less likely to be process driven
2:29:41and more likely to be outcomed driven
2:29:43and that's actually ruining a part of
2:29:44our brain because now I don't care about
2:29:48developing a muscle or developing an
2:29:50interest of process. I only care about
2:29:52the final outcome.
2:29:54>> Um, yes and no. Right. Um
2:29:59if you do not understand how something
2:30:01works,
2:30:03>> your brain will not fully develop.
2:30:05>> Yeah. So that's a true statement. But
2:30:08should you do something the hard way?
2:30:10The answer is no.
2:30:13Right? For example, we all took vehicles
2:30:16to come to this place.
2:30:18>> One could argue that
2:30:22I would have taken few hours to come
2:30:24over here. So the question is that we
2:30:26find efficient paths to achieve the
2:30:28outcome right but doesn't mean that we
2:30:30do not know if you have to walk we can
2:30:32walk or not
2:30:33>> but if you learn to not walk and only
2:30:35vehicle is the only way you'll get there
2:30:37then you are in a problem.
2:30:39>> How do you do that in AI case?
2:30:40>> No. So let's take an example of this. If
2:30:42you were not able to write a single
2:30:45paragraph
2:30:46>> without AI's help, then you're in a big
2:30:49trouble because you'll not even know if
2:30:51AI is in a good job
2:30:54>> which will most likely to happen for
2:30:55>> yeah I'm saying that will happen for
2:30:56most people. So what I'm saying is that
2:30:59dependency will increase and people's
2:31:00brain will going to atrophy. So actually
2:31:02I tweeted about this that the the
2:31:04atrophy that we are going to go through
2:31:05and the dependency on all decision that
2:31:08we take on right see one is auditing a
2:31:11decision one is taking help to take
2:31:12decisions very different
2:31:16if you take AI's help to audit your
2:31:18decisions audit your judgment audit your
2:31:21strategy good idea
2:31:25what should I do
2:31:29the moment you do that the brain will
2:31:31atrophy at a different level
2:31:35which is what I'm worried about in
2:31:37general.
2:31:39>> Uh and
2:31:41see human brain is energy efficient.
2:31:46We don't want to spend our brain on
2:31:47anything.
2:31:48>> Yeah.
2:31:49>> So anything that makes our brain energy
2:31:51efficient, we'll keep going down that
2:31:53path. But it's like a little bit like
2:31:55muscle.
2:31:57>> Eventually we make the muscle it become
2:31:59more efficient.
2:32:00>> Yeah.
2:32:01Right?
2:32:02Uh and therefore building that muscle is
2:32:06an important trait
2:32:09and unless we become good at building
2:32:11that muscle which is otherwise avoidable
2:32:15most people avoid it.
2:32:19That changes the equation materially. So
2:32:22you have to think about life where hey
2:32:25uh I am going to like push for that
2:32:28atrophy to not happen. I'm going to
2:32:30leverage this to become actually even
2:32:32more curious.
2:32:34Take more ambitious calls, more
2:32:36decisions,
2:32:38more curiosity.
2:32:40>> Mhm.
2:32:42>> Then it's very powerful.
2:32:43>> But that's true for any tool in life.
2:32:45>> Yeah.
2:32:47>> It's true for any tool in life.
2:33:00So people have become extraordinarily
2:33:02better.
2:33:03>> Yeah.
2:33:03>> Using internet and people are still
2:33:05watching
2:33:07fun content on that. The country's
2:33:10average usage now is touching 35GB
2:33:12almost per month per capita without a
2:33:15Wi-Fi usage. By the way, this is just
2:33:17data usage on cellular 35GB.
2:33:21So you wonder
2:33:2335GB average
2:33:25>> per capita per user in India probably
2:33:28the highest in the world.
2:33:29>> When was the last time you got offended?
2:33:31>> I don't get offended. I I
2:33:33>> was last time
2:33:33>> I don't think I I have no memory of
2:33:35getting offended because I I my filter
2:33:38is of information.
2:33:41>> I don't I don't have the filter of
2:33:43offended and not offended.
2:33:46I I usually
2:33:49I'm either curious or not curious,
2:33:51interested, not interested.
2:33:53That I can give you very clear answers
2:33:55about. But offended, not offended is not
2:33:58the filter.
2:33:58>> Do you have any insecurity?
2:34:00>> Uh insecurity of becoming
2:34:03uh not be able to understand something,
2:34:05not able to figure out something is a
2:34:07huge it's a huge uh thing that I it's
2:34:10not an insecurity, it's a worry I have.
2:34:12It keeps me up that do I get it?
2:34:16>> But physically or personally, do you
2:34:18have anything?
2:34:19>> No.
2:34:20>> Emotionally, no insecurity.
2:34:22>> I'm I'm sure when I grew up, I had the
2:34:24same insecurities as everybody else did,
2:34:25but eventually realized that these are
2:34:26all less important things.
2:34:28>> Have you ever gone in a room full of
2:34:29people and felt inferior?
2:34:32>> Not anymore. For example, I didn't know
2:34:35how to speak proper English till I was
2:34:38like 23, 24. I could not that I can
2:34:40claim that I could speak well now also
2:34:42but the thing is that that time I would
2:34:45worry that I would just be a listener
2:34:48for example I remember distinctly that
2:34:50my biggest trigger of joining MBA was I
2:34:51would read economic times
2:34:55right and I would feel like oh my god
2:34:58it's like alien it's a little bit like
2:35:00you want to see under the ocean you
2:35:02don't know how to swim like it's a
2:35:03little bit of that right but now I don't
2:35:06think uh but I think I
2:35:09gone to solve these barriers versus
2:35:12likeomic
2:35:18>> you can you can do that
2:35:20>> but I have never done that I'm like
2:35:23>> and then you just went deeper and deeper
2:35:25to solve that up
2:35:27>> insecure so you worked on your on the
2:35:30things that bothered you
2:35:31>> yeah and I think once you understand
2:35:34>> ignored
2:35:35>> or ignored
2:35:37>> ignored something that bothered tells
2:35:38you
2:35:42>> um
2:35:44no I usually address it.
2:35:45>> Okay.
2:35:46>> I usually address it. It's a good signal
2:35:48to know where to work on.
2:35:50>> It's a good indicator. It's like engine
2:35:54light. So something bother is a good
2:35:56place.
2:35:58>> Yeah.
2:35:58>> I don't ignore it usually.
2:36:01uh and
2:36:04try to understand also why it bothers
2:36:06me. sometimes discover it's not worth
2:36:09bothering about
2:36:13>> I do this I I write notes
2:36:16on like let's say weekly or 20 days make
2:36:20whenever I get angry or bothered I write
2:36:22down I get bothered or angry and then
2:36:24whenever I have time
2:36:25>> you should write down why did I get
2:36:26bothered
2:36:27>> so that's what and then whenever I have
2:36:28time at the end of the weekend or
2:36:30somewhere or I'm in a long flight I open
2:36:32those notes and be like okay is time I
2:36:34got angry why did I get angry where is
2:36:36this coming If you if you go more into
2:36:38why
2:36:40>> emotions will disappear.
2:36:41>> The word why is a very powerful thing to
2:36:43go into logic versus emotions.
2:36:47>> So I would say if more people used why
2:36:51they would be less emotional. You said
2:36:53something about India on this point.
2:36:55What was that?
2:36:55>> On again you tweeted that it's hard to
2:36:58imagine for rationality to be at
2:37:00forefront in a society where emotions
2:37:02are celebrated and lack of it is
2:37:04resented.
2:37:05>> Yeah.
2:37:06So for example, robot
2:37:11or somebody who's controlling their
2:37:12emotions.
2:37:14>> So we can't expect rationality to be at
2:37:16forefront over there.
2:37:17>> Is that one of the reasons which is
2:37:19holding us to be very prosperous?
2:37:21>> I don't think so. Prosperity is a very
2:37:23complex topic. Right? For example, I
2:37:24would say uh one gender is working and
2:37:27second gender is not contributing to
2:37:29workforce. No country has become rich by
2:37:30one gender working. It's a much bigger
2:37:32factor than emotions and non-emotions.
2:37:34Right? So complex topic but rationality
2:37:37and curiosity, reason, productivity is
2:37:41important. For example, you will never
2:37:43see country getting prosperous without
2:37:45them really valuing time. You will not
2:37:48see a one country that will become
2:37:49prosperous without valuing time. You
2:37:51will never see
2:37:53country prosperous.
2:37:55You talk about it a lot. No, but it's
2:37:58evidence. It's evidence, right? So uh uh
2:38:00if I found a country that became
2:38:02prosperous by being dumb chill
2:38:05I'm very interested in that
2:38:08and I'm not even saying that we should
2:38:10chase that metric I don't know if it's
2:38:11the right metric to chase okay we should
2:38:13become rich I don't know
2:38:15>> who who knows is the right metric for
2:38:18example we say oh we should try to make
2:38:20people healthy and make them live longer
2:38:22but what if they are not wanting to live
2:38:25who decides that metric
2:38:28right in the past people used to live a
2:38:30good life, die at a good age. Now we
2:38:33keep extending the age by doing medical
2:38:35interventions.
2:38:37Is that a good thing? I don't know.
2:38:41So I I what what I don't like to do is
2:38:44build these firm views. I'm just saying
2:38:46if you want prosperity,
2:38:49>> if you want six pack, should we want six
2:38:52pack? I don't know.
2:38:54>> Should we want prosperity? I don't know.
2:38:55Should we want success? I don't know.
2:38:58Mhm.
2:38:58>> What I know, if you want this, you have
2:39:00to do this.
2:39:03>> But when you ask people, they all say
2:39:04they all want everything.
2:39:06>> Yeah. But they they don't want to do
2:39:07anything about it.
2:39:09>> That's the change we have to do.
2:39:11>> And it's okay to not want some of these
2:39:13things. I know many people who are like
2:39:14very clear
2:39:16>> which is great. Which is great. Problem
2:39:19is when the ambition that comes out of M
2:39:21doesn't say an example, right? We get
2:39:23super offended when somebody talks about
2:39:25working more hours. Huh?
2:39:28Why?
2:39:30Yeah.
2:39:30>> Why get offended by somebody telling you
2:39:32to work harder?
2:39:37>> Why do you think people get offended
2:39:39when they talk about?
2:39:40>> Because when people get offended is
2:39:43usually coming from a place where they
2:39:45know there's some truth to it. Offense
2:39:47doesn't come when there is absence of
2:39:50truth.
2:39:53For example,
2:39:55uh if we
2:40:00remark through somebody that this don't
2:40:03even feel is 1% true, we're less likely
2:40:05to get a reaction out of that.
2:40:08If the person is saying that the country
2:40:10is not going to get prosperous. For
2:40:11example, let's talk about work from home
2:40:13for us. I mean the the whole work life
2:40:15balance situation right now,
2:40:20>> right?
2:40:22days
2:40:29first.
2:40:35So then are we being selective?
2:40:39>> I am very happy if you take the western
2:40:40things and we take all of it then
2:40:43selectively 5 days a week but we'll not
2:40:45say
2:40:56True.
2:41:00People don't go to some distant
2:41:01relative's wedding.
2:41:04>> People don't take 15 days break for
2:41:06their
2:41:09brother or sister's wedding.
2:41:12So we we tend to
2:41:15get confused
2:41:17>> through selective data.
2:41:21And then there's some truth to it. So we
2:41:24get offended.
2:41:25>> Yeah. For example, if you ask most
2:41:28Indians, are we the best culture in the
2:41:30world? Most people will say yes. If you
2:41:33ask them, how many other cultures have
2:41:34you visited and studied?
2:41:41Indian culture is not great.
2:41:45That's why truth seeeking removes the
2:41:47fence.
2:41:51Do you think in general are we becoming
2:41:53more offensive?
2:41:54>> We becoming sensitive because we have
2:41:57this concept. I I've said this multiple
2:41:59times that when you build reputation
2:42:01before substance, you will get offended
2:42:02very fast, right? And younger people
2:42:04have that unique problem that they are
2:42:07designed to get offended because of
2:42:09their their world that they create
2:42:12around them.
2:42:13>> This 2,000 people like liking world.
2:42:16>> Yeah.
2:42:17And
2:42:19but if you say
2:42:22you said one of the best things which I
2:42:25think you've said it to me was
2:42:30most of the young people are worried
2:42:32about the reputation they don't have.
2:42:34>> Mhm.
2:42:35>> Beautiful. Like so true.
2:42:37>> Mhm.
2:42:38>> Why did you say that? And what do you
2:42:40think? What did you observe?
2:42:43No, because the same thing. you know,
2:42:44they are like worried about how they
2:42:46look, what their image is, their brand,
2:42:48their all of that stuff. And and I'm
2:42:52like, nobody cares about these things
2:42:54eventually. And like you're worried
2:42:56about these things. And I think that
2:42:57repetition prevents them from learning
2:42:59more things because they're worried
2:43:00about their image too much. All right?
2:43:02For example, I see them I see the
2:43:05generation
2:43:08seeking the least amount of help from
2:43:09people because it's I'll look small if I
2:43:13ask help.
2:43:17So the growth is stopped. They're
2:43:18finding it much more comfortable to ask
2:43:20charg.
2:43:22But some help is better to be asked by a
2:43:24person.
2:43:24>> Yeah.
2:43:25>> But you don't see them them seeking
2:43:26help.
2:43:28>> Oh, I have to be like maintain my aura.
2:43:33So they are sure failure in private
2:43:36because they don't want to be seen.
2:43:38>> Yeah.
2:43:40Asking for help. Mhm.
2:43:43>> Why is this happening? Because
2:43:47social media
2:43:56people you're not in touch with they
2:43:57don't know you.
2:43:59>> They know your image about you. They
2:44:00have a brand perception about you. They
2:44:03don't know you.
2:44:04>> Yeah.
2:44:07>> So I want to maintain that image
2:44:12was the thing.
2:44:13>> Yeah. But but that's what I'm saying.
2:44:15Those are the exact people who find it
2:44:16hard to ask for help. What I'm saying is
2:44:17that it's so much more now.
2:44:21[Music]
2:44:25>> How do we break out of this repetition?
2:44:28Let's say for you'll rarely see success
2:44:31in people who have stopped caring about
2:44:33shame.
2:44:35Shameless important ingredient.
2:44:39>> I believe
2:44:40>> you reached out for the podcast for the
2:44:41first time to me. You didn't care. you
2:44:43were just shameless enough to ping.
2:44:45>> Yeah.
2:44:45>> I said yes. I didn't know whatever. For
2:44:48example, I remember like I discovered so
2:44:50much later
2:44:52Instagram. I didn't care about all these
2:44:54things. Like I was like, okay, sure, do
2:44:56it. Like
2:44:57>> uh uh and
2:45:01what I discovered is that people who
2:45:04reached out were shameless, got the
2:45:05benefit of that.
2:45:08Now I'll be more selective about who
2:45:09reaches out and who I'll say yes to or
2:45:11not say yes to. But earlier you were
2:45:14shameless enough to
2:45:16reach out. You got that. You said I got
2:45:19the highest views for you initially and
2:45:21that was great.
2:45:24What if you had not reached out thinking
2:45:26that yeah what if he says no? I'm sure
2:45:28people have said no to you in the
2:45:30beginning. How many people said no to
2:45:31you in the beginning?
2:45:33>> First 200 guest nobody came. 200 first
2:45:37random.
2:45:38>> Perfect. So, but
2:45:44most people don't get to 200
2:45:50and and shamelessness. Shame.
2:45:52>> See, that's what I'm saying. For most
2:45:54people, there's a huge shame. Rejection
2:45:55is a huge shame. Being left on red is
2:45:59huge shame for people. Why do people
2:46:01talk about it? Red zone.
2:46:04Don't double text.
2:46:12You ask any young person, double texting
2:46:14is almost a sin for them.
2:46:20But don't
2:46:23maybe
2:46:24>> you'll be surprised. Ask the younger
2:46:27team members.
2:46:27>> Scene zone, right? Like the
2:46:29>> scene zone, red zone, double texting.
2:46:31Ask the younger people in your team. H
2:46:34like will you double text?
2:46:35>> Yeah. Or how do you perceive somebody
2:46:37who double text?
2:46:40>> How do they perceive if you asked?
2:46:43>> You should check like desperate.
2:46:48>> Yeah,
2:46:50it's it's a real
2:46:51>> Who makes these rules though?
2:46:53>> Insecurities. Human insecurities. All
2:46:56rules. All of these come from human
2:46:57insecurities.
2:46:59>> See, I believe you need to be shameless.
2:47:02That is so true. Everybody needs to be
2:47:04shameless in order to win. But what% of
2:47:06people threshold is
2:47:08>> No, shameless is a binary term.
2:47:12>> Like what we're talking about is I would
2:47:14never even think that this is shameful.
2:47:16Reaching out to somebody on an email and
2:47:18or Instagram.
2:47:19>> Not for everyone. Not for everyone.
2:47:23Okay. I'm going to do a thought
2:47:24experiment with you. A lot of team
2:47:26members are outside. experiment. Um,
2:47:33all of them have to act like a a beggar
2:47:37on the street and whoever gets 100
2:47:39rupees wins a big prize. How many people
2:47:42will agree to this experiment?
2:47:46Number two, how many people will be able
2:47:48to pull this off?
2:47:52Number three,
2:47:54how would they think about themselves?
2:47:59Some people you know shameless you know
2:48:02you can already identify which four five
2:48:03people will just go and get the 100
2:48:04rupees also
2:48:06>> exactly
2:48:09>> like I know you would go I would go like
2:48:11very like zero there's nothing in it
2:48:13it's just
2:48:14>> exactly but it's not
2:48:15>> good story to tell [ __ ]
2:48:17>> yeah I've done it once in college as a
2:48:18as a bet
2:48:23>> yeah so shame is directly
2:48:26It's preventing success for sure.
2:48:32>> True. And if you won't Yeah. Actually,
2:48:35if you won't be shameless, you won't get
2:48:37the opportunity that you want. You won't
2:48:39get the girl that you want. You won't
2:48:40get anything. Anything
2:48:41>> any level of success that you're
2:48:42actually looking out for?
2:48:43>> Anything.
2:48:45>> What's the level of shame which is
2:48:47accepted or not? Is there some
2:48:50shame?
2:48:50>> There's no such thing
2:48:51>> because there has to be some thin line,
2:48:53right? like not be
2:48:55>> see means saying oh you become creepy is
2:48:58a very different thing.
2:48:59>> Yeah. Would you be offended if somebody
2:49:01reaches out to you 20 times?
2:49:03>> No absolutely not. Why would I be
2:49:06offended by that?
2:49:06>> Like you're just like what the [ __ ]
2:49:08Like you'll block that person like
2:49:09irritate you
2:49:12because you didn't reply once or you
2:49:13didn't reply twice.
2:49:14>> But most people have no craft in
2:49:17reaching out to you,
2:49:20right? They don't establish the value
2:49:22that they provide to you. They send the
2:49:25same text. Like for example, a lot of
2:49:27people are guess if you see most
2:49:29people's DMs of uh uh thing, hi, hello,
2:49:32hello, hey, hey, hello. Like
2:49:35nobody's saying anything more.
2:49:38>> So that's the and how do you get over
2:49:40let's say a lot of people would reach
2:49:41out to a lot of people. That's saying we
2:49:44to establish value. Why would somebody
2:49:45give time attention?
2:49:48Most people underestimate that.
2:49:50>> This also goes back to the school years,
2:49:53right? We not taught to date. We're not
2:49:55taught to approach. We're not taught to
2:49:56sell ourselves. We're not taught to
2:49:58actually go out and go get people.
2:50:00>> Same thing. No,
2:50:01>> it's the same opportunities.
2:50:02>> The whole thing not like what is this
2:50:05whole like this thing that uh uh like
2:50:08Zakir comedian talks about Sakla? What
2:50:10is that? M
2:50:11>> is this not
2:50:12>> is there don't go out on
2:50:13>> I can't ask how I got to maintain my
2:50:17>> how can somebody break out of this
2:50:19>> by accepting that there's success
2:50:22outside of this
2:50:25>> because I'm trying to go to my life
2:50:27>> and thinking about
2:50:30>> but you'll see many people who come from
2:50:31business families are not naturally less
2:50:34see look at all the people who are
2:50:35misbehaving at the airport are usually
2:50:36from business families
2:50:40shame Shame
2:50:43because shame like I'm thinking shame or
2:50:47shamelessness.
2:50:48>> Yeah.
2:50:49>> I've always you probably got more shame
2:50:50in Bombay than where you are originally
2:50:52from.
2:50:53>> Oh yeah 100%.
2:50:54>> Like oh you can't behave this way.
2:50:57>> 100%.
2:50:58>> Yeah.
2:51:01So the only way it is just mentally you
2:51:04have to tell yourself that okay
2:51:08there's success on the other side.
2:51:10>> Mhm.
2:51:11>> And that's it. There's no other way for
2:51:12me to do it.
2:51:13>> Yeah. But you have to be crafty about
2:51:14it. You can't just like oh my message.
2:51:18>> Then you will get blocked.
2:51:20>> Yeah. For example, I say let's talk
2:51:21about dating scenario. What does this
2:51:24person want in their life? For example,
2:51:27let's say I'm reaching out to an
2:51:28investor.
2:51:30email pitch
2:51:33if you do not take any effort to find
2:51:35out what kind of stuff this person is
2:51:37likely to react to
2:51:41homework zero
2:51:43but everything else so I'll just do
2:51:49>> same thing in dating if you do not know
2:51:50what this person is expecting
2:51:55>> randomly you'll text
2:51:56>> so you will just say hello hi hello
2:51:57hello hi doesn't
2:52:03And you usually know what homework to
2:52:05do. There's no
2:52:06>> usually people who are interested to
2:52:09really get it right, they will do the
2:52:11homework.
2:52:11>> They'll figure out
2:52:12>> or find out.
2:52:18>> True.
2:52:20That's the way to think about it.
2:52:22>> Yeah.
2:52:22>> You said s let this be the last
2:52:24question. You said
2:52:26>> actually second last. Okay. You said sat
2:52:29long, alpha male if you want to put it.
2:52:31What's alpha male according to you?
2:52:32>> No, sorry. I don't think Sat Land is
2:52:34alpha model. I think I think I think uh
2:52:36someone like Zak does a fantastic job to
2:52:39actually make this into a humorous thing
2:52:41to this that it's almost a problematic
2:52:44slash uh insecure version of somebody to
2:52:48protect to pretend to be this person,
2:52:50right? and and and uh he's also kind of
2:52:53giving the other side to explain the
2:52:55nuance of what really it means
2:52:57internally to feel that way. But I think
2:52:59uh the whole thing around alpha whatever
2:53:03I I mean I I remember asking this
2:53:04question to Karan Johar once at one of
2:53:07the events I hosted is
2:53:09>> hey why are these movies doing big
2:53:12success and he's like kunal this has
2:53:14happened every decade this whole angry
2:53:17young man of different type has come
2:53:19back again and again in different forms
2:53:21it's existed from the beginning and I
2:53:23was like yeah that makes sense it's just
2:53:25that we feel this every now and then
2:53:27because it's almost It's a cycle that
2:53:29repeats
2:53:31>> right so I think uh anything that is
2:53:35different for a society's norm gets
2:53:37attention then again it becomes normal
2:53:40then we'll again have somebody who's
2:53:42loving and
2:53:44like this loving personality will again
2:53:47win so it'll be a cycle
2:53:49>> it's the same thing humans are very
2:53:52predictable that way fashions have
2:53:54exactly the same cycles
2:53:56>> these things of expecting personal ity
2:53:58is to be in cycle same thing continues.
2:54:00>> But what's your definition of alpha
2:54:02male?
2:54:02>> I don't think there is I I think to me
2:54:04these are uh uh uh more biology
2:54:08definitions uh versus uh a human
2:54:11definitions uh in in biology is very
2:54:14simple that somebody who has more
2:54:16success to get resources or mating
2:54:19success is known to be alpha
2:54:22>> right
2:54:22>> but human life doesn't work that way. We
2:54:25are not like some animals living in some
2:54:27jungle that we have to create this
2:54:29particular thing. So uh uh leadership is
2:54:33natural. For example, it's very simple,
2:54:36right? Um leadership to me is
2:54:39followership,
2:54:42right? If somebody creates followership,
2:54:46people would follow them.
2:54:48>> Yeah.
2:54:48>> Do something because they said
2:54:49something.
2:54:51>> That's leadership.
2:54:53It's alpha, beta, gamma, theta. I don't
2:54:55understand all stuff. Leadership,
2:54:56followership is very simple.
2:54:58>> And followship doesn't mean I follow
2:55:00somebody for because they're humor.
2:55:01That's not followership. Follow
2:55:04>> how influential you are.
2:55:06>> Influential to make somebody make
2:55:08sacrifices,
2:55:11>> not watch a real just because you send
2:55:12them.
2:55:14>> That's not influence.
2:55:16>> All attempts to differentiate
2:55:19end up becoming attempts to belong.
2:55:21Yeah, that's a pattern I observed is
2:55:24that look at all the Gen Z
2:55:27who decide to not post anything. They
2:55:29only have highlights sometimes and no
2:55:32posts. Like that's their thing.
2:55:34>> Yeah,
2:55:36>> they did that to differentiate with
2:55:38older people. But now all Genz's do it.
2:55:44>> But somebody must have started the
2:55:45trend. Now that person must be feeling
2:55:47significant in their head.
2:55:48>> Yeah. So I think all attempts to
2:55:49differentiate becomes an attempt to
2:55:50belong eventually.
2:55:55>> Okay, last again. Sorry, but resourceful
2:55:58people create more wealth than
2:56:00insightful people.
2:56:02>> Mhm.
2:56:02>> You need to explain me this. What do you
2:56:04mean by resourceful people? What do you
2:56:06mean by insightful people? And why one
2:56:08over other?
2:56:09>> So insightful people tend to know why
2:56:12things work the way they work. They have
2:56:14good efficient methods to understand the
2:56:17reasons behind stuff.
2:56:18>> But resourceful people are actually the
2:56:20the people who so if you'll see many
2:56:22people in small towns who make a lot of
2:56:24wealth are not very insightful people.
2:56:26They're just very good at making money.
2:56:27They're very resourceful. What I mean by
2:56:29resourceful is like if you tell them sir
2:56:32problem
2:56:37then the resourceful person comes to
2:56:39help not an insightful person.
2:56:41>> Yeah.
2:56:42uh
2:56:45or some people who say
2:56:48figure out. Think about your own team
2:56:50members also. You will see that the
2:56:52insightful people are not the one you
2:56:54rely on.
2:56:56The resourceful people you rely on.
2:56:57>> True.
2:56:58>> So there is a difference between the
2:57:00two. Like if you are not the type that
2:57:05and and we all of us have we all of us
2:57:07know this type of people.
2:57:08>> Yeah. Who will we call if you got stuck
2:57:10with police or legal issues or some
2:57:15challenge or some topic or some help
2:57:18some person you know
2:57:21>> the right person and they are not most
2:57:23insightful people they just get stuff
2:57:25done
2:57:27they don't think in obstacles they think
2:57:28in outcomes
2:57:30>> is there a way to become resourceful
2:57:33>> h I think first is removing your shame
2:57:37reluctance resistance
2:57:40and just being there
2:57:44and just happening to the world. See
2:57:47there is two types of people. People who
2:57:50happen to the world and people uh and
2:57:53the second type is where world happens
2:57:54to them.
2:57:56If you are the first type, you are
2:57:58resourceful.
2:58:01>> You need to be valuable to the world.
2:58:03>> No, you need to happen to the world like
2:58:06you change the world. You shape the
2:58:08world. You make things happen. You get
2:58:10stuff done. You don't worry about
2:58:13obstacles. You you your existence
2:58:18creates change.
2:58:22>> Are you that in even the smallest room?
2:58:25>> Yeah.
2:58:25>> And then just get
2:58:26>> and people do well in life
2:58:30and most people stuff happens to them.
2:58:34>> Yeah. They just live.
2:58:36>> Yeah. They they are perpetual somewhat
2:58:38of a
2:58:40sufferer of the world.
2:58:44>> True. Love it. Thank you so much. It was
2:58:48pleasure having you again and my
2:58:50pleasure.
2:58:51>> I'll have you again whenever next time
2:58:53you're ready. It's always good to talk
2:58:55to you.
2:58:57>> How are you doing?
2:58:57>> Good man. I was just telling you that
2:59:00going to young people's office is like
2:59:01going to a rap here. Break the case.
2:59:08Day one.
2:59:11>> It works. It works. It works for us. I
2:59:13know. I know. I'll reach out to you
2:59:14because people need to appreciate what
2:59:16the hell has happened. Uh and and
2:59:19business folks need to treat this into a
2:59:21very serious business podcast versus
2:59:23like some motivational stuff. It's like
2:59:24boss. It's hardcore. It's not some
2:59:32there is lot of serious juice which goes
2:59:34on.
2:59:35>> There is no [ __ ] way you going to get
2:59:36this kind of numbers by just like being
2:59:38a child doing stuff. There's some
2:59:41serious athlete stuff going on over
2:59:42here. Thank you so much.
2:59:53number
3:00:11conversation can change someone's life.
3:00:12I'll see you next time. Until then, keep
3:00:14figuring out
3:00:19[Music]

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