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Why Solving Problems Won't Make You A Successful Business Owner — Transcript

by The Business Takeaway Podcast · 10,169 words · 1,573 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00I used to kind of think many years ago
0:02that there'd be a point where the
0:03problem stopped that, you know, we we we
0:05reached a point where we had it figured
0:07out and the business was working well
0:09and it's like great, you know, now we've
0:11solved all these problems. But
0:15I think uh they'll never stop and it's
0:18just a matter of how good we get at
0:20responding to them and [music] dealing
0:22with them.
0:26>> [music]
0:31[music]
0:39[music]
0:40>> Good afternoon, Huntley. Welcome to the
0:42business for takeaway podcast. Thank you
0:43for joining us today. Do you want to
0:44give a bit of a background to who you
0:46are and then what finds you here today?
0:48>> Thanks, Ben. I am the founder and CEO of
0:53Christy Lights, a stage lighting
0:55business that I started in 1985
0:58after
1:00a uh unsuccessful stint as a drummer. I
1:04think there's a lot of us drummers,
1:06failed drummers maybe is the right word,
1:08uh in in this business and uh I'm one of
1:11them. I have been doing this for 41
1:15years. I don't think you could pay me to
1:18quit. I love being a part of the uh the
1:21live event industry. It's full of
1:24dynamics and change that uh I think uh
1:29keeps me on my toes, keeps me young. But
1:31uh so there you go.
1:34>> I think you're right. I think starting
1:35with that first place, the drummer.
1:36There's a lot of musicians, I've had a
1:38number of people on this podcast in our
1:39industry who started as a musician. What
1:41made you sort of go right, let's go and
1:43play with some lights rather than play
1:44the drums obviously, which you didn't
1:46think you were that good at? Yeah, you
1:49know, I think a lot of drummers have the
1:51practical responsibilities in a band.
1:54Not not all of them, but usually more
1:56than the lead singer and the lead
1:57guitarist. Uh, so I've been packing up
2:01in the evening and I got quite uh
2:05acquainted with production elements,
2:06audio, there was really no video back
2:08then. Bit of staging, lighting, and uh
2:14I've always liked lighting. It's a real
2:17mix of technical
2:20engineering. I mean, when you throw
2:21lighting and rigging together, which is
2:23what we're all about, you've got an
2:24engineering and a technical side, an
2:26electrical side, it it's it's about
2:29packaging and being organized, which uh
2:32is a discipline I can relate to. But
2:35it's wonderfully creative. Uh there's so
2:40many
2:42uh different configurations and you know
2:46different ways to light an event that uh
2:50I I I just I like that variability. I
2:52like the the uh um
2:57creative part of that discipline. When I
3:00was doing audio, which I actually I
3:02started in audio, uh I have a lot of
3:04respect for audio engineers. It was just
3:06a little dry for me. Just not uh you
3:10know quite as crazy. Usually the it was
3:12the lighting guys back then that
3:15couldn't do they got lighting gigs
3:17because we couldn't do audio. If if you
3:19were on audio they said run the
3:22lighting desk. So uh I guess I wasn't
3:25great at audio which in the end uh
3:27worked out for me.
3:29>> Be Christy audio in the in another
3:31world. Right. [laughter]
3:33And what and then what what took it from
3:35being right I want to go and play with
3:36lights to then founding a company and
3:38and what did you what were you trying to
3:40bring to people which you saw an opening
3:42to be able to do really
3:45>> you know I think what really appealed to
3:48me is that I started in 1985 and the
3:51industry was very nent at that point it
3:54would take all comes and as someone who
3:56had quite honestly flunked out of
3:58college didn't have a lot of career
4:02career prospects in the in in in the
4:05traditional way. Uh the live event
4:08industry was very welcoming, very
4:11entrepreneurial.
4:12Uh and it also was very
4:16um there was a lot of opportunity in
4:18that the the business was
4:22really beginning to grow. It had come
4:25out of the theater and music world which
4:29it was still growing rapidly in and then
4:31it had jumped into the corporate world
4:34and film and TV. So um there was a lot
4:38going on and it was an I think every
4:40chapter's been exciting but the 80s was
4:42was definitely a very exciting chapter
4:45in our industry.
4:47And when you started to expand, you
4:50started and up in Canada. Correct.
4:53Correct me if I'm wrong. You started in
4:54Canada with the location.
4:55>> Toronto. That's right.
4:56>> What was the purpose then to expand into
4:59the states and and what what was the the
5:01journey of expanding into the the
5:03America region?
5:05>> Well, it's you know, it's interesting. I
5:07don't think many people are aware of
5:09this, but Canada, despite being bordered
5:14uh
5:16directly to the US, was more influenced
5:19by the UK. We would have a lot of tours
5:23coming to Canada first
5:25through a small tour across the country.
5:27And if those tours went well, American
5:30promoters took note and uh would would
5:34uh on the next tour
5:37maybe sign up act. So we had bands like
5:39Simple Minds, The Police, OMD, all sorts
5:43of British bands that would tour Canada
5:46as a as a starting point. In the 80s,
5:50the Brits were still building all the
5:52trussing, the power cans, the consoles,
5:54the the the cables, the dimmers, and
5:58that was really the technology center.
6:01Um, what had me looking towards the US,
6:06uh, was really more the fact that
6:10Canada
6:13from a touring corporate event side of
6:16things, so much of our our own customers
6:19ended up in America doing shows as as
6:23part of
6:26their producer efforts or production
6:28efforts. So we ended up in America
6:34quite regularly and it it just reached a
6:36point where it was pretty clear that
6:38that if we were going to grow our
6:40business that was going to be a a number
6:42one consideration.
6:44Um I mean America is the largest market
6:47in the world for this and
6:50Toronto's I don't know 100 miles from
6:52the border. So it was a a a pretty easy
6:56decision to pack our bags and and head
7:00south.
7:02>> And obviously during that period of time
7:03as you said it was quite a embionic
7:05industry at the time. Did you have
7:07opportunities to we joke about Christy
7:09audio but did you have opportunities to
7:10do Christ audio and then what made you
7:12stay with just being Christy Lights
7:14rather than going right we're going to
7:16do the whole service for somebody
7:17because that would be a obvious
7:18expansion route but you didn't do down
7:21that route. I I love that question. I
7:24think
7:26um sort of ironically I was really
7:29inspired by the American companies that
7:32were able to pick a singular discipline.
7:36Um in Canada most companies were full
7:39service. Part of that was the size and
7:41scale of the market really was far more
7:44regional. It favored full service
7:46providers.
7:48But looking south of the border, there
7:50were dozens of companies that were
7:54single single discipline. I mean, Clare
7:56Brothers is the obvious. Uh, a real
7:58shout out to Claire because I
8:01learned a lot by modeling my business uh
8:05in in in a similar respect. I really
8:09like their focus. they were very um
8:13uh
8:15deeply entrenched in the audio side of
8:18things in a in a world where they very
8:21successfully ran a single discipline and
8:23in Canada that was unheard of. But you
8:25had tons of companies like Bash,
8:28Production Arts,
8:30uh, Fourstar,
8:32um, these just in New York that were
8:34doing just lighting and then there were
8:38dozens of companies that were doing just
8:39audio. So
8:43that was a strong indicator that the
8:45model worked. And once we began down
8:50that road,
8:52we we had our hands full. And I mean to
8:56step out of lighting and into another
8:59discipline
9:00uh
9:02I I I think would have occurred to us if
9:04we'd really got bored because we'd
9:06solved all the problems in lighting. But
9:09uh we were far from that. And it's it's
9:12uh
9:14maybe part of my OCD nature that I like
9:16to remain focused and lighting.
9:22We actually started to tighten our focus
9:25as we grew. We got rid of the little
9:28bits of pyro and the soft goods that we
9:30had and kabuki drops. Um,
9:34we got rid of uh, you know, a lot of
9:38ancillary type product
9:43where we could really combine
9:46SKUs to to reduce the number of
9:50different products that we carried so we
9:54could have depth. If we were going to do
9:55a large show,
9:57we could
10:00do that without putting 15 manufacturers
10:03moving lights on it. Um, so
10:07I think simplicity is really important
10:10in
10:12running a successful business and
10:14simplicity is hard, but we've always
10:16strived for that. I I I would say
10:19lighting as a discipline is complex
10:21because there's so many parts to it. We
10:23all know
10:24you know, how many how many parts there
10:26are in a lighting rig. It's it's it's
10:28quite a pain. But
10:31in an effort to make everything
10:35workable, we've always
10:38focused on, you know, how can we make
10:40the business more simple? And, you know,
10:42to answer your question, getting into
10:44audio or getting into video, while
10:47appealing in some respects, would have
10:49made our business more complicated. And
10:51I think that was the the the killer for
10:54us.
10:54>> And when you stripped away those other
10:56things that you said, the Kabuki, Pyres,
10:58drapes, whatever, how did your customers
11:00take that? Were they do they just go,
11:02"Yeah, we get it." Or was it was it a
11:03journey you had to take them on it? Cuz
11:05you could have sort of shot yourself in
11:07the foot as well by doing that at the
11:08same time.
11:10>> Yeah. I think the
11:13the clients that wanted, let's say, a
11:16Kabuki drop, [clears throat]
11:18they were few and far enough between
11:21that it it really didn't threaten
11:25our our our business model. And we would
11:28in those occasions
11:30still subrent the product or or solve,
11:32you know, we want to solve problems for
11:34our our clients. If client wants a
11:36generator,
11:38we're there to solve that problem. But
11:40do we want to be in the generator
11:41business? No. We we
11:44spend,
11:46you know, many many millions of dollars
11:48in trucking every year, but we do not
11:50want to be in the trucking business. So,
11:54I think to answer your question, we we
11:56simply draw a line of where we can
12:00really succeed and where we'll lean on
12:02others to fill
12:05gaps or plug holes
12:08>> and and looking at that expansion when
12:10you came into the states what was the
12:12what was the sort of lessons you picked
12:14up moving into the states because
12:15although as you said Canada and the
12:16states are very closely linked in some
12:18ways there's also some big differences
12:20as well what what did you find coming
12:22and doing business in a different
12:23country when you've been where you've
12:24been
12:26>> I I think the thing that helped us is
12:29that Canada is a tough market
12:31I I going into America America
12:37was in a way aided by the fact that
12:40Canada was geographically very
12:42challenging,
12:44very very competitive
12:46and very thin in the way of market size,
12:50like thin in the way of opportunities.
12:53When we moved into America, it wasn't
12:56easy, but it was a a a a battle or a a a
13:02a challenge that we were very very
13:05familiar with in terms of building a
13:06business. Um so having a scrappy
13:12Canadian background I think really
13:14helped us survive and and and maintain a
13:17durability in America.
13:21But was there sort of operational things
13:22that took you by surprise or you had to
13:25do differently because of the different
13:26countries and ways of working and things
13:27like that or was it was it a relatively
13:29seamless process into the state?
13:32>> It wasn't frictionless and you've asked
13:35a great question about operations. We
13:37really believe in one best way. Now we
13:39have a bit of a different platform that
13:44includes 8 foot denominated cable
13:47lengths and all sorts of differing
13:49systems.
13:51We even in metric countries still stay
13:56true to our platform. So when we moved
13:58to America, we had some challenges
14:01around user adoption. We had an initial
14:04resistance around the way our systems
14:07worked.
14:09We worked hard to, you know, win clients
14:13over
14:15and mostly in that situation would have
14:17been technicians
14:20so that we could have a platform that
14:22had consistency. So that we could move
14:25equipment anywhere and not run into
14:28compatibility issues. so that we could
14:32shift equipment and benefit by
14:35utilization rate improvements.
14:38If we had, let's say, set up the
14:40American shop differently,
14:45it would have been like setting up a
14:46audio division. I mean, we we would have
14:50broken rank with the the platform.
14:55So,
14:58that was key for us. It was key. When we
15:01went to America, we had an oddball
15:03connector. No one was using that
15:04connector. This was this Canadian thing.
15:07And we [clears throat] still took it
15:09with us. We don't have it now, but once
15:12we make a change, it's got to be
15:13platformwide. It's just too,
15:17you know, complicated to run with gear
15:21that,
15:22you know, one chain hoist is double
15:24Hubble, the other has seven pin socket
15:26packs. I mean that's a that's a
15:29challenge. So, and then one with C4
15:33>> and then you then you moved over to
15:34Europe where we as you said we work in
15:36completely different measures, weights
15:38and everything. And how how was that
15:40that journey because you've been UK was
15:4228 17 18 sort of period of time I think
15:46>> 17 so you've been here a while um and
15:49dealing with us Brits and then we threw
15:50Brexit at you as well which is you know
15:52it's just to help things
15:54>> where how did you find that operation
15:56because as you said Canada America
15:57similarities Europe very different
15:59mentality way of working how was that
16:01for you as a move
16:03>> um [clears throat]
16:05I think because our DNA is concert
16:08lighting. We're very much about
16:10packaging and efficiency. And so even
16:13though our systems are different,
16:16um going to the UK or in any market, you
16:20know, my belief and the belief of our
16:24whole team is that
16:26customers may say they want a certain
16:29kind of packaging and I I think what
16:32they really want is a result. They
16:33really want an outcome. They want their
16:34rig up in the air on time, rung out, and
16:38reliably working.
16:41The packaging is really the tool that we
16:44use to deliver an outcome to a customer.
16:47So yes, we would get push back about a
16:50variety of differences in our way of
16:53operating,
16:54but in the end we
16:58deliver a very strong uh efficient and
17:02reliable service to our customers and
17:05and that became the overriding issue. So
17:11the I mean for me the UK was probably
17:14the most
17:16exciting and satisfying
17:18uh moment in my career because I had
17:21grown up
17:24in the under the influence of UK
17:27technology, UK live music, uh UK theater
17:34and this was really the hub. It was the
17:38artistic hub, the production hub.
17:41In in London, you can get you have
17:43multi-generational
17:45technicians. I mean, in Canada, there
17:47was no such thing. So, um,
17:52being able to set up shop in
17:56the UK was a sign that, at least for us,
18:00that we had arrived in this industry.
18:04Uh, no offense to Florida where I live,
18:06but that's not the same. [laughter]
18:09So, um, but the standards are really the
18:12standards are
18:15really important
18:17for
18:19a a consistent level of quality, uh, a
18:22consistent level of management. So when
18:25we went to the UK,
18:27a lot of people thought what that our
18:30systems were weird or different the and
18:32we would get push back on that. But
18:34again,
18:36the shows went really well. We gave a
18:39terrific level of service and attention
18:41and at that point
18:44it that's what mattered.
18:46>> And you talk about that UK move. How did
18:48you how do you sort of maintain that
18:51policies? You said you want people to
18:53experience that with Christy lights. How
18:55do you do that when you've got a
18:56somewhere in Vancouver, you've got
18:57somewhere in Toronto, you've got
18:58somewhere in Florida, you've got
18:59somewhere in the UK, somewhere in
19:00Germany. That that's hard to set that
19:02standard. So, how does Huntley I know
19:03you travel all the
19:06office very regularly because you're
19:07always jetting back and forth. But how
19:09do you maintain that and set that
19:10standard that everyone knows that is
19:12Christy Lights?
19:14>> You know, I think two core things. One,
19:18our reps are deputized to say yes. So,
19:22our reps have the authority
19:25to do whatever they need to do to ensure
19:30a great outcome for a customer.
19:35They're in that in that ability to say
19:37yes, they're also in charge of that
19:40customer experience. Now we've got a
19:42falance of project managers, project
19:46coordinators, transport coordinators,
19:48subreal coordinators, labor managers,
19:51and so forth that back up the team.
19:54And you know, to that extent, there's a
19:57fairly consistent
19:59process by which all of these shows um
20:04are are I guess executed.
20:09At the same time, it's the rep's job
20:12[clears throat] to,
20:14if you will, overlook
20:17take a position of of care and custody
20:20over an outcome because it's their
20:22reputation. Our reps are really the IP.
20:26They are our intellectual property. I
20:30don't really consider Christy Lights a
20:32brand. I consider
20:35every one of our reps individual brands.
20:39I think we all
20:41at the end of the day recognize that
20:44this is about trust and confidence. If
20:46someone's going to award us a show, it's
20:49about their trust and confidence. And
20:51usually that trust and confidence takes
20:54place at the rep level. So in with
20:57respect to your question about
20:58consistency,
21:01you know, we make a mess of our fair
21:03share of shows. So it's not as
21:06consistent as I would like. Uh but there
21:09is a consistent culture about support
21:12that that
21:14really backs a rep success that way.
21:19>> It's it's that people buy from people
21:21thing, isn't it? is the the reps have
21:23their contacts and they go with it. Um
21:25>> well, it's even
21:26>> Yeah, it's even more so I think in a
21:28service and a rental if you're if you're
21:30a manufacturers's rep and your
21:32manufacturer produces a terrible
21:34product, there's not a lot you can do as
21:37a rep. You can say yes, you can do
21:39whatever, but you're not you're not able
21:42to change that outcome. Being
21:46um
21:48a rental rep, there's more autonomy,
21:52more decision- making that puts you in
21:55the driver's seat of customer
21:57experience.
21:58You you a a a good rental rep will make
22:01a significant difference on customer
22:04experience. I think a good
22:07manufacturers's rep will be a great
22:09advocate for a customer and can help
22:12solve a lot of problems, but that rep
22:16cannot solve the product problem.
22:18>> On that equipment side, the pressure on
22:20you as a rental house is always to have
22:22the latest greatest thing. That comes
22:24from the manufacturer side. We'll park
22:25that side, but from the designers, the
22:26the pressure is always we want to buy
22:27the latest. How do you how do you make
22:29the solid investment so you don't go and
22:32put all your money into something that
22:33you don't know is going to be the the
22:35hit the next month, the next year,
22:37whatever? Because that's that's the
22:38difficult part of managing that
22:39investment.
22:40>> You know, I I kind of get in trouble
22:43sometimes when I say this, so I want to
22:45say it the right way. When I started in
22:481985,
22:50and remember Christy Lights is all about
22:53lighting designers. The business exists
22:56to serve lighting designers. And in 1985
22:59when we were serving lighting designers
23:01and someone would come back and say,
23:03"Hey, you know, I'm not sure the
23:06Intelliba beam that you've got is going
23:07to do the job.
23:10I need zoom optics or rotating goos or
23:14color mixing." And I go, I get it. I
23:17mean, there's a huge difference between
23:19an Intella Beam 700 and a and a a VL2.
23:24So there was a lot more
23:29uh consideration for product type in the
23:3280s than there is now. I mean if we look
23:35at a moving light a profile
23:39they've all got zoom. They've all have
23:40rotating goos. They all have color
23:42mixing color correction and and a host
23:45of other features. So, where I, you
23:48know, what I get into trouble with is
23:50saying that that lighting designers
23:52these days are
23:56maybe
23:59suggesting that this light has to be
24:02used on a job
24:05as a way to
24:07pick a preferred vendor or speak to a
24:11relationship. I think underneath it's
24:12always a relationship. And I don't mean
24:14we should get in trouble for this. I
24:15just mean that I don't
24:20in 1985
24:22probably the look of a show was 50%
24:26dependent
24:28on the bill of materials.
24:30If you had a ton of parks
24:34on that job, that that's that's what you
24:36had to use the look of that show
24:40as as much design skill and talent as
24:43you brought. The look of that show would
24:45have some limitation based on those
24:48parkans.
24:51In 2026,
24:55if you're using a Martin product, a Robi
24:59product,
25:00a Verily product, an Aerotin product,
25:03there are differences, but those
25:05differences have shrunk so much that
25:08now, and this is the great part for
25:10lighting designers, is that now 90%
25:13of the look of that show is dependent on
25:15that LD. So I think the lighting
25:18designer has become way way way more
25:21important and what's become less
25:23important
25:25is the kit.
25:26>> But how do you judge that with a light
25:28designer? Because you said the light
25:30you're lice is set up to support light
25:33designers. The light designer comes to
25:34you and say hunt I want to buy this
25:35widget A and you go it doesn't work for
25:38us or it's not going to work. That's
25:40that's a difficult when your purpose
25:42you're upsetting the main purpose of
25:43what your business is. That's a that's a
25:45difficult conversation, right?
25:47>> Yes, agreed. And I have a very strict
25:50policy which is I never read a lighting
25:53designer the rules. I never tell a
25:56lighting designer what they need. I
26:00think the difference is
26:03a lighting designer's creative process
26:05depends on using a set of tools in which
26:09some of these choices have trade-off. So
26:12if a lighting designer says, you know, I
26:14have to have this product, I have to
26:16have that product. Um my experience has
26:20been is that have to have isn't like it
26:22was in the 80s. Like the the have to
26:27have now is marginal.
26:30If if we take a a um
26:35job,
26:37let's say Rob Sinclair's doing a a show
26:42and Rob's
26:45I would say you could give Rob a piece
26:46of crap and he's going to make it look
26:48beautiful. Now, that's not an excuse,
26:50Rob, to give you a piece of crap. But my
26:53point is, my point is that his design
26:56abilities
26:57are far far more important to the
27:00success of the show than whether he
27:03picked an Aerotin or a Robi product.
27:06So, from our standpoint,
27:09when a designer says, "Listen, I have to
27:11have," we're listening. We're listening
27:13100%.
27:15But we tend to find that designers speak
27:20in ways that include, I have to have a
27:23rig up on time. I want it reliable. I
27:26want a good crew. I want a um
27:32a a well-maintained
27:35kit. And you know, if I have one, if I
27:40have this manufacturer versus that
27:42manufacturer, I may have a preference,
27:45but that preference isn't
27:49one of one of the the overwhelming
27:53decision factors.
27:56And I think, you know, this is hard in
27:58some way for manufacturers. Obviously,
28:00manufacturers want to create
28:04a a
28:07much bigger distinction between product
28:10offerings.
28:12Um, and and clearly when you get into
28:14film and TV and certain theater, there's
28:16certain fixtures that are particularly
28:18relevant or or important to it.
28:22But I've seen a lot of really really
28:25good-looking shows with what we would
28:28call BT type product. And I think I
28:32think uh we all know
28:36you know plenty of the of the
28:40the the B product that has kind of moved
28:43up close to the A level picks. And I
28:47think that's just because there's a uh a
28:50compression of features like the there
28:53there's not as much distinction between
28:55the features.
28:56Yeah. You think back to I mean I started
29:00probably mid 90s when I started playing
29:02with lights properly and and there was
29:04one or two brands you had and that was
29:05the one or two brands because you didn't
29:07pick anything else. Now, now we my
29:10manufacturer is up against 10 or 12
29:12brands all the time and you don't know
29:13which one of those you're going to be
29:14shooting out against which is which is
29:16it's just how the business moves, right?
29:17It's just a interesting challenge. But
29:20it also comes down to the economics,
29:21right? And how how are you seen from
29:231985 to 2026? How are you seeing the
29:26economics of the entertainment business
29:29changing? We before we were came
29:30recording, we talked about the cost of
29:32concert tickets and everything like
29:33that. It's a dramatic shift from the $25
29:36as you said touring tickets to where we
29:38are now. And and how are you finding
29:40that from a rental point of view?
29:43>> I've seen a huge change
29:46and the 80s the return on investment on
29:51a fixture was fantastic.
29:54So we would see, you know, what we could
29:57rent a park can for in the rock and roll
30:00touring days, and this is in Canadian
30:01dollars, but $10 per week per park. I
30:05think they cost 50 bucks or something.
30:08So payback was really, really favorable,
30:12but scale wasn't part of it. Utilization
30:17wasn't that high. This is why we saw
30:20warehouses in the 80s that looked very
30:23sort of old school, not densely packed.
30:29Um, you know, fairly projectbased.
30:33But as the industry grew,
30:36pricing became more and more and more
30:39competitive.
30:41I think that really drove a need to run
30:44your warehouse more efficiently. I mean
30:46probably at the center of any of our
30:47businesses the biggest cost is
30:52warehousing running a warehouse. Um and
30:56when you are
30:59providing lighting rigs that
31:03now have a a a capital value that is far
31:08greater than they were in the in the
31:1080s. And you've you've got to be
31:14competitive. We've we've all had to be
31:18clever about cost
31:19>> and and warehouses can look really busy
31:22but making zero money, right? You you
31:24can have trucks loading in and out all
31:26the day, people running around prepping,
31:28deprepping, everything like that. How
31:30how do you how does Huntley learn
31:32whether I mean obviously looking at data
31:33and things, but is there a way Huntley
31:35can go into warehouse and go we're just
31:36being busy fools here rather than
31:37actually doing profitable stuff?
31:39>> Right. Well, we've been busy fools
31:42plenty of times and I think you've you
31:44you've hit the nail on the head that you
31:46it's a tough business to be profitable
31:48in if you're not careful.
31:51Um
31:53I think some people have this notion
31:55that
31:56a rental
31:58is profitable at any dollar. It's just
32:01degree of profitability.
32:03So getting something for your product is
32:07giving you profit.
32:09We, you know, we we see situations where
32:17if we haven't grasped the real cost
32:21of what we're doing, it's easy to screw
32:24up. I mean, rental pricing, if you're in
32:27sales, you've got a floor. It's like,
32:30okay, here's what we paid for this. So,
32:32we know if we sell it for less than what
32:34we paid, we know we're losing cash. It's
32:37it's very simple in rentals
32:42that line is is I don't think well
32:44understood by everybody. So you can have
32:48people
32:50doing something very cheaply and then
32:53sometimes that can become a habit. I
32:55mean you get used to a festival that
32:57can't pay very much money and you did it
32:59cheap this year and lo and behold you
33:00find yourself doing it cheap next year.
33:03And if if you're not careful, you will
33:08uh slowly bleed out.
33:14And it's finding that balance, as you
33:15said, is it's the when I worked in
33:18rental myself, it was that difficult
33:19balance of well, it's on the shelf. It's
33:21going out for four weeks. It's not going
33:22out for four that period of time. Should
33:24we just take the take the money? And
33:26it's a difficult balance to go actually
33:28no, it's cheap. It's cheaper for it
33:30actually to stay on the shelf. and and
33:31that's a really hard metric to have
33:33that.
33:34>> Yeah, it is a difficult balance. I mean,
33:37at some point you are minimizing losses,
33:39it may be better to send it out and and
33:42lose less. Um, I think,
33:47you know, I think when it when it comes
33:49to running
33:51uh a profitable business, I
33:55I look at my competition as cost. My
33:58competition isn't four-wall, solo tech,
34:00PRG. I'm competing against cost.
34:05Even in the most generous circumstances,
34:08our customers are not willing to pay a
34:10whole pile over market. If I have a very
34:13generous customer,
34:15if we got 10% above market, that would
34:18be a huge victory. So we expect
34:24that if we deliver a great service, earn
34:27a customer's trust and loyalty, that
34:29we've earned a market price and we've
34:32earned repeat business at a market
34:34price. So
34:38in that environment, how do we make
34:39money? It's a it's a it's a cost battle.
34:45Have you ever
34:48remember the I mean when you were
34:49involved did you ever have a customer
34:52say you know that's okay we'll pay you
34:5410% above white light. I mean I'm sure
34:57it happens once in a while but
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35:38Hey, just jumping into the show to ask a
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36:05thank you very much for listening and
36:07back to today's show.
36:15It it goes back to that spec question,
36:16right? It goes back to, well, you you
36:18can deliver me exactly what I want or
36:20this customer will do that. And I'll go,
36:22well, that's the premium of doing that
36:23because I'm having to do something else
36:24to make that work. And you could have
36:26that discussion, but it especially in
36:28the theater. I was doing theater at the
36:29time, right? Um, uh, actually with one
36:31of your one of your staff was was my
36:34competition. Um, and but but they but it
36:36was all it basically came down to price.
36:38It was it was a price thing and you you
36:40could swing it a bit on kit but it was
36:42mostly price and and that was tough.
36:45>> Um yeah, you know to try and get them to
36:47pay more
36:48>> and and quite often also we would get
36:50that's the budget.
36:51>> Do you want to match the budget? Do you
36:53want to not match the budget? And go
36:54well I can't match the budget. Okay,
36:55move on. We'll do the next one. Do you
36:57know what I mean? And and that that
36:58that's a that's a difficult
36:59conversation. Why did you do that? You
37:02know, well the kit's all there, Ben. We
37:04can make a kit work. Yeah. So,
37:06>> well, I think
37:08you know there are relationship issues
37:10there. It it when a client is dismissing
37:13you that quickly because of price, just
37:16purely because of price.
37:18We I look at it and say we've either
37:20failed that client and maybe we just
37:23haven't earned the right relationship
37:26with them to get a closer working
37:28partnership or maybe that client's not
37:31the right fit for us. But it's there's
37:33clearly a problem when a customer goes,
37:38I'm throwing three bids out. Whoever's
37:41the lowest price, I'm just taking that
37:43number.
37:45[laughter]
37:45At that point, I think as as a business
37:48owner, this is what we want to stay away
37:50from. We we we we want to find ourselves
37:55maybe included in the decision. I mean,
37:57if it's going to be a shootout, are they
37:59going to include us in the decision and
38:01say, "Well, Huntley, listen.
38:04We've got
38:06a limited budget here. There's some
38:08competitive bids. How do we make this
38:10work?"
38:12Um, you know, that's it. At least
38:15there's relationship at work in that
38:18situation.
38:20I think I was probably shortening for
38:22the benefit of the podcast. I was
38:23shorting shortening some of those
38:24things. But it is yeah, it's it's
38:27difficult. It's a difficult competitive
38:29market and as you you said it's the pro
38:32the price to try and get something more
38:34expensive than a white light or PRG or
38:36solar techch or whatever that company
38:37is. It's it's it's a difficult battle
38:39and sometimes you can do it. Of course
38:40you can. Yeah.
38:42>> Well, in spec, you know, if the lighting
38:44designer, we have a lot of lighting
38:46designers,
38:48which I appreciate that they will spec
38:51to support their preferred vendor. And I
38:54I think that's a great way for a
38:55lighting designer to vote, which is,
38:58hey, I get great service from this
39:00vendor. I like them. So, I'm going to
39:02put their kit on my bill of materials.
39:07And then when you recognize it in the
39:09other company, you go, "Oh, well, this
39:10is going this is going to crystallize."
39:12They probably twice.
39:12>> And then they tank it.
39:14>> Yeah. Precisely. [laughter]
39:16And Christy Lights has grown from the
39:19your your your garage in 1985. How's
39:22Huntley found that journey to where
39:24you're now running eight, nine locations
39:27around the world. You're doing all the
39:28size of things. How have you found that?
39:30Because you're still very hands-on. I
39:32know you're very hands-on, but you must
39:34have delegated stuff as well of how you
39:36found that experience to delegate and
39:37and let the business grow.
39:40>> Um, I think that goes back to running a
39:45business that has as much simplicity to
39:47it as possible. It's far easier to scale
39:51a single discipline business. We have 10
39:54locations, but they all have the same
39:56ready racking. They all have the same
39:59flight cases, the same everything. So
40:03when we are dealing
40:06with scale,
40:10it's still very small in a certain way.
40:14If we are going to change something
40:16across the company, the volume count may
40:19be higher, but the complexity
40:23isn't necessarily. So that's that's what
40:25we have to fight. So to answer your
40:27question about managing,
40:29it's far easier to manage a business in
40:32which every outlet is more or less the
40:35same.
40:37Um, if you've got a QC policy or you've
40:40got uh shop layouts or you have certain
40:43ways of doing things,
40:47if they're enacted the same way in each
40:49warehouse, it it brings a an ability to
40:53to scale without becoming too
40:57overwhelmed. There's plenty of places we
40:59get overwhelmed, but if you added 10
41:01more locations to Christy Lights,
41:05it wouldn't
41:07create any greater load to the system.
41:11Um,
41:13it would uh,
41:16you know, increase certain uh number of
41:20staff and what have you, but it's it's
41:22not going to create a greater load.
41:27when CO came around um how when did you
41:31start to realize that the world was
41:33changing for Christites?
41:35I I had been through SARS which was uh
41:41a uh
41:43sort of a small breakout in Toronto and
41:46I'd seen how it so quickly shut
41:48everything down.
41:51Uh it was very it didn't last long. It
41:52was a very short-lived thing, but a lot
41:55of shows were cancelled. But the one
41:58sector that kept going during that six-w
42:00week run of SARS was rock and roll. And
42:04I I never thought rock and roll was I
42:06never thought we were going to shut down
42:08entirely. So I was in the UK at the
42:11time. It was February. Apple, we were
42:13doing a job for Apple and they pulled
42:15the plug on it and I thought, "Here we
42:16go. We're going to be screwed."
42:21I expect every corporate show to cancel,
42:25but heck, they didn't close theaters in
42:28the Spanish flu. Um, they, you know,
42:32I've never seen a rock tour come to an
42:34end. 9/11, they didn't stop.
42:37They didn't stop. The Great Financial
42:38Crisis, they didn't stop. So, I thought,
42:40we're going to be off the Shitz Creek,
42:42but we'll be still be doing some rock
42:44and roll and a little bit of theater
42:45work. And I was dead wrong about that.
42:49So, uh, it was a humbling experience. Oh
42:52my god, it was really humbling. It was.
42:56>> But what did you have to do at Crystily
42:58to go through that process? Because I I
43:01know there were some publicly stated
43:02facts and figures that went out at the
43:04time or or leaked out into industry.
43:06What What did you have to do and how did
43:07that affect you as Huntley with your
43:09business? Yeah, I think when you've got
43:13I've always said I I'm really proud of
43:16our track record of never having to lay
43:18anyone off and
43:21I took that as a
43:24a what's the word? uh
43:27as a management
43:30success if if you're scaling your growth
43:32and you're managing your business well
43:35um layoffs uh if you can build your
43:39business without layoffs I uh attribute
43:41that to better management that's not
43:43always true but that's sort of the the
43:46view we had we were really pleased that
43:49for decades we'd grown our business and
43:53um we'd never had to let people Oh,
43:57this was different. I mean, we just did
44:00we had other people telling us we were
44:02out of business. I mean, we all we were
44:04doing was receiving trucks for months
44:07that were coming back from shows. And
44:10when someone says, "Look, you have no
44:12choice in the matter. We're shutting you
44:14down. We um we uh in in that case have
44:20to scale back." So
44:23we closed
44:27Dallas,
44:29um, Chicago
44:32and
44:34moved some people around, moved gear
44:35around. We had to lay off people, but we
44:38but we had the the whole PPP thing. So
44:43there was a lot of government support
44:45around employment.
44:47>> [snorts]
44:47>> I think the reason we took heat is we
44:50were I've been through this before once,
44:53so I kind of like I had people thinking
44:56that it was going to be over in July.
44:59You know, this I'm going like I don't
45:01think so. So, we we uh um I I think
45:07we're fairly clear that we had a major
45:09problem to deal with and that and that
45:11the longer we waited, the worse it was
45:12going to be. So, um,
45:16we we moved quickly.
45:20We preserved the majority we we
45:22preserved all of our key team and the
45:24majority of our team in in general. Um,
45:29but it was miserable. Oh, yeah. I mean,
45:31everyone will say that.
45:33>> And did you did has that changed your
45:35attitude to risk in the future, a big
45:38thing like that? because that could
45:39really change your psychology or change
45:41what you're prepared to do or things
45:43like that. Is that Did you find that at
45:44all?
45:46>> No, I I I think it
45:51I think it actually helped me uh because
45:54I kind of score myself low. I when I
45:57asked my wife and said, you know, how
45:59did I do through this? She said, "Well,
46:00you know, it was really tough on you,
46:02but you you you probably got a 6 out of
46:0510 in terms of endurance, durability,
46:09you know, what have you." And I think I
46:11let anxiety,
46:15uh, a lot of fear and uncertainty,
46:19um,
46:20get in the way of, uh,
46:25running the business with with just a
46:28focus on the future. Um, and I think
46:32when you're in those situations, what's
46:34really important is that
46:38it's about doing the best you can with
46:40what you got. And it's and it's just
46:43accepting the rest. And
46:46wait, I think the best thing to do is
46:50accept how bad it's going to be and
46:52let's now let's move on.
46:54I was waking up every day
46:58sort of reliving problems that I should
47:00have just accepted from the previous
47:02day. So um I mean we I had done well uh
47:08in the financial crisis in the dotcom
47:10bubble at 9/11. You know our business
47:13took plenty of beatings at that time and
47:15we never had to lay anyone off or close
47:17any location. Um, so this this really
47:21handed handed my ass to me and I think
47:24it was it was a good humbling
47:27experience. I I think it in the end it's
47:29made me a
47:32more balanced leader and the next time
47:35something like this happens, I think
47:38although I'm sure I'll feel anxious,
47:41I'll be better prepared to to uh lead
47:45with with a little more steadiness.
47:49And do you think crystallize has come
47:50out stronger out of CO than if if CO
47:53hadn't happened? Do you think
47:53crystallites is in a stronger place than
47:55it was?
48:00I think it's stronger in terms of
48:02discipline.
48:04I I think things that may have been
48:09there may have been doubt about or
48:12um
48:14you know we're we're not sitting here
48:16worried about the next outbreak. It's
48:18not that we're we're
48:21we've strengthened ourselves in the
48:24event of certain catastrophes. I I just
48:27think that adversity and big problems
48:31um help
48:34contribute to growth, career growth,
48:37personal growth. So in that sense, yeah,
48:40my version of coming out stronger is if
48:42you walk in and tell me some really
48:44crappy news that one of the buildings
48:46are burnt down, I'll go, "Okay, what?
48:49That sucks. What can we do about this?
48:51Let's get into problem solving mode." I
48:54I love what Travis Kalanick said, which
48:56is fear is the cancer,
49:01hustle is the cure. And I think when
49:04you're up against a difficult situation
49:08that's nerve-wracking, all you can do is
49:11hustle and and do your best to deal with
49:14it. Um, so I think now, Ben, what
49:18happens is when I get problems, I'm not
49:20dismissive of them, but I'm like, hey,
49:23we're going to be getting problems all
49:24the time. And that's our job. A business
49:26is all about solving problems. I used to
49:30kind of think many years ago that
49:32there'd be a point where the problem
49:33stopped. That, you know, we we we
49:35reached a point where we had it figured
49:37out and the business was working well
49:39and it's like great, you know, now we
49:41solved all these problems. But
49:44I think uh they'll never stop and it's
49:48just a matter of how good we get at
49:50responding to them and dealing with
49:52them. And so co was sort of a master's
49:55degree in that.
49:57>> Find a business that doesn't have a
49:59problem. You haven't it's not a proper
50:00business. So we we we've talked about
50:02technology and you know the the day when
50:04it was a park for $10 and you bought
50:06them for 50. You've seen a lot of
50:08technology change. Where do you think
50:09technology in this industry is going?
50:11not just to a specific project or
50:12something, but do you where do you think
50:14we're going and heading in the next 5 10
50:16years?
50:18>> I mean, I've been absolutely blown away
50:21by LED. It's incredible how bright and
50:25powerful it is. So, I I have no clue
50:28where it's going other than there's a
50:31certain
50:34physical material element to a live
50:36event show. I remember in CO people were
50:38talking about about um video and and
50:44virtual reality and other technologies
50:47replacing live.
50:49I I I don't think we'll ever get there.
50:51I I think that the the connectivity,
50:55gathering experience, and all that comes
50:57with the live event, whether it's when
51:00Shakespeare started ages ago, and we're
51:03still we're still working uh at that
51:07same sort of technology level that he
51:09was uh or whether it's it's live bands.
51:13I think I think that forms sort of a
51:17human animal spirit
51:19piece that that doesn't change no matter
51:21how many robots or AI or whatever you've
51:23got. How how you how you um
51:29sort of service that market and and what
51:31those stages and events look like, they
51:34become more and more and more reliant on
51:36lighting than than less. So, I mean, car
51:42shows are a great example. We do work
51:44for gaming conventions where they'll
51:47take a whole convention center over and
51:50rethe it. And lighting becomes a big
51:53part of how they they transform the look
51:56of that convention center. So, lighting,
52:00you know, lighting is critical to
52:01environment. It's critical to
52:03experience.
52:05uh it's it's critical to
52:08um
52:09messaging and I think
52:12no matter what no matter how the tools
52:15change
52:17that that
52:19discipline
52:20is
52:22uh I may get this wrong but I don't
52:23think it's changing for centuries as far
52:26as as it being an element that is is
52:29core to to so many aspects of our lives
52:34um that to me the technology changing
52:38from my line of work
52:41it it's not really that significant. I
52:43mean when we started it was
52:46there was no digital then we went to
52:48digital then we went to LED. Uh I would
52:51say the barriers to entry kind of
52:52increased because you've got to be way
52:55more capable
52:56to to run a robo spot system than a you
53:01know than focus a park can. So networks
53:05and technology means there
53:09are higher skill sets required to
53:12operate and run which that's not a bad
53:14thing but I don't I don't think much
53:17about you know where's lighting gear
53:19going to be in 10 20 30 years because I
53:24don't think it really changes what we
53:26do.
53:28>> It's still that live performance. I
53:30remember going and seeing shows when co
53:31it was like the delight of seeing a
53:33performance in front of me and not just
53:35on my my screen, laptop, whatever it
53:37was. It's that interaction as you said.
53:39It's the it's the key that we'll still
53:41want to go and see live performances for
53:43as much as
53:44>> whatever. I think the interesting Have
53:45you I don't know whether you ever seen
53:46Aba Voyage in in London, but that's
53:49really interesting how they put
53:50technology and that together. That's
53:52really interesting.
53:53>> Yeah, I think technology is always going
53:55to be a great assist. It's always going
53:58to be an an enhancement to what it's a
54:00tool set. Um, but I think we're just
54:05going to see letting applications
54:08just spread wider.
54:12Actually, all the podcasts at the moment
54:13are mentioning the word AI. Where do you
54:16see AI and how that can help Christy
54:18Lights or you are not an AI?
54:23Yeah, I think in in the usual areas of
54:28um
54:30administration and and legal and
54:34contracting and uh
54:39as it relates to our being a stage
54:41lighting business,
54:44I I'm
54:46I'm not I mean it it's helping us a lot
54:50on optimization of moving
54:52equipment here, there, whatever. There
54:54there's a lot of places it will leverage
54:58our efficiency, but
55:02I don't see I think until we're sort of
55:05into robots, coiling cables or that kind
55:08of thing, I don't know that we're going
55:12to see much pickup in efficiency, let's
55:14say, in a warehouse.
55:16Um,
55:17I don't know that we're going to
55:20get a lot of
55:24pickup in efficiencies as it relates to
55:27production.
55:30It's it's a great question. I It's We
55:33certainly use it all the time in the
55:35areas that are common place to use it,
55:38whether it's accounting,
55:40show management, all sorts of different
55:41things. But
55:44I uh I don't see people losing I don't
55:47see people in our industry losing jobs
55:51that are industry specific. I mean
55:55not that that's so much the issue but
55:58designers I think will benefit
56:02by it. I think you can
56:05experiment with a lot more ideas much
56:08faster with it. Um, you can pull out
56:12bill of materials really quick. There's
56:13a whole bunch of things you can do
56:15faster. Is it going to change our
56:17industry? I I don't think so. Heck, I
56:21hear it's going to be bigger than the
56:24industrial revolution. So,
56:27what do I know? [laughter]
56:28>> We'll we'll find out in five 10 years
56:30time. and and and and on that 10 years
56:32let's saying 5 10 years in the future
56:34without giving the road map of where you
56:36want to take Christy lights but where
56:37where do you think the industry and
56:39Christy lights will be you know heading
56:41down what do you think we'll see in
56:42changes do you think the industry will
56:43be as it is or do you think we're going
56:44to be looking at a different industry
56:47>> I would like to think the industry is
56:49going to be the same uh you know I
56:55I can't
56:57you know we live in a our industry is
56:59very tangible it's trucks equipment,
57:02production,
57:04logistics.
57:05Um,
57:08I don't I it's hard for me to envision a
57:11world where all of that goes away.
57:14There's a lot of application
57:17for what we do in a in a growing
57:21a a a growing space. So
57:26it it's it's hard to imagine that
57:30let's say lighting services, stage stage
57:33lighting or live event lighting in 20
57:36years from now is not is is not needed.
57:42It's an interesting thought, but when I
57:45think about it, I go I just I can't
57:47connect the dots. I can't connect the
57:49dots that say no one needs live event
57:53lighting anymore. We've got a different
57:56way of doing things.
57:59You're about the busiest man I know as
58:01we joked about off air. And I think when
58:03I when I last saw you for a meal, it was
58:05at a 7:00 breakfast because you had to
58:06leave by 8 for another breakfast. Right.
58:08Um
58:10what's does Huntney see a day when
58:12Huntley will stop doing this or does
58:14Huntley just keep going?
58:16You couldn't pay me to quit. I mean,
58:19it's really
58:21um it's fun. I think
58:26it's given me a lot of personal growth
58:29as well as career growth. And I think
58:31Ben, the hard part, too, is as a scrappy
58:35young kid,
58:37I it took a long time to
58:43build a business and understand the
58:45industry.
58:46Um, I mean, heck, I
58:49when I was 25, if I called the lighting
58:51designer, I wouldn't get a call back.
58:53And I, you know, when you're starting
58:55out,
58:57everything that I had to do took 10
59:00times longer than it takes now. So, I it
59:04it just doesn't feel fun to quit when I
59:07can,
59:08pick up a phone,
59:11talk to someone on the first call.
59:13I don't mean it's easy. It's just way
59:16more I the wheels are way more greased
59:20and it's hard to quit when when I've
59:22worked this hard and um there's there's
59:27far more
59:29uh momentum in an area that's that's
59:32rewarding. So there there'll come a
59:34point where I suck at my job and I hope
59:36I'll figure that out and quit before I
59:38stick around too long. But, uh, as long
59:41as my health and my my my brain is, uh,
59:44functioning, I plan to stick around.
59:47>> I've seen the pictures of you in the gym
59:48pumping iron at like 5:00 a.m. with one
59:50of my colleagues. So,
59:54>> when you're when you're old, you got to
59:56fight it.
59:58>> The final the final question before we
1:00:00go to the rapid fire. This is good for
1:00:02the business takeaway podcast. Does
1:00:03Huntley have a sort of golden rule he
1:00:06lives by? Is there a motto you like to
1:00:08live by? Is there something that you
1:00:10would say as your sort of takeaway, the
1:00:12main takeaway for somebody listening?
1:00:14>> Do what makes you happy. Do what makes
1:00:17you happy. A lot of people say, "Well,
1:00:19why aren't your kid Why aren't your kids
1:00:21following suit and running the
1:00:23business?" Well, my eldest is happy
1:00:26being a teacher,
1:00:28and my youngest is happy working in the
1:00:31pyro world. So, I've been blessed to be
1:00:36able to do it what what I love, what I'm
1:00:38what makes me happy. So,
1:00:42uh those are those would be my two
1:00:44cents.
1:00:46So, that's a great way to end. As I said
1:00:48at the start, we have some rapid fire
1:00:49questions which can be rapid fire or not
1:00:51rapid fire. So, we'll we'll see where we
1:00:53go. [snorts] Are you an Apple or Android
1:00:55user?
1:00:57>> Apple.
1:00:59>> What is your social media platform of
1:01:00choice?
1:01:03I'm not really a social media guy. I I
1:01:06think it's great. I just suck at it. But
1:01:08yeah, I when when Huntley does stop,
1:01:11does he prefer to go to beach, city, or
1:01:13mountains for his holidays?
1:01:15>> Ski. Mountain. Ski.
1:01:17>> Yeah.
1:01:19>> Would you travel first class or save the
1:01:21money?
1:01:23>> Depends on the price. Mostly first at
1:01:26this point in my life. Mostly first.
1:01:28Yeah.
1:01:29>> Don't blame me if you're doing those
1:01:30long hauls. Don't blame me at all. Um,
1:01:32[snorts] when when you're traveling,
1:01:34which you do extensively, what what's
1:01:35the one thing you can never leave
1:01:36without?
1:01:40>> Well, for me it's definitely my
1:01:43passport. That's that's
1:01:46>> aside from the pass. Aside from the
1:01:47passport, is there something they always
1:01:49will
1:01:50>> passport laptop? Um, I mean, when I
1:01:53travel, I I just have an appsac that's
1:01:55it. I will not take more than an
1:01:57appsack. So, it's really about again,
1:02:00Ben, simplicity.
1:02:03So, you know what? It It's probably be
1:02:05my workout running shoes. It's probably
1:02:08my workout clothes that I won't forget
1:02:09cuz I got to I got to stay healthy.
1:02:12>> Got to stay healthy. Are you a morning
1:02:14or night person?
1:02:15>> Morning. Morning.
1:02:17>> Would you rather build something new or
1:02:19fix what's broken?
1:02:22>> Damn, that's a good one.
1:02:27I'm half and half on that
1:02:30that I mean I've fixed a lot of things
1:02:31that are broken and it's driven me to
1:02:35you know it's pulled me into things
1:02:38but building something new. Yeah, that
1:02:40that's a great question. So there we go.
1:02:43You got me.
1:02:46>> Gut instinct. Are you gut instinct or
1:02:48data driven?
1:02:52I started on a gut instinct basis, but
1:02:55as I have grown and I'd like to think
1:02:59matured,
1:03:01I am a pretty clean split. I do not want
1:03:04to make a gut instinct decision without
1:03:06looking at the data.
1:03:08I don't want to do that. I don't want to
1:03:10look at the data and make a decision
1:03:13that doesn't feel right. So, it's got to
1:03:15be both.
1:03:17>> Absolutely fine answer. Um, are you
1:03:19about growth or profitability?
1:03:22>> Profitability.
1:03:24I think that's harder.
1:03:26>> That's hard. Yeah, it definitely is.
1:03:29>> Especially in our Especially in our
1:03:30industry,
1:03:32>> it sounds corny. It sort of sounds like
1:03:34I'm saying it's the money that's
1:03:36important. I actually feel differently
1:03:38about that. I feel that running a
1:03:40profitable a profitable business
1:03:43is hard. Um, and I think in the short
1:03:46term it's not that hard to grow your
1:03:48business. If you want to make unwise
1:03:51choices, you can still grow your
1:03:52business quickly. So that's why you got
1:03:56that answer.
1:03:57>> And if it's profitable, it should allow
1:03:59some growth as well.
1:04:00>> Yeah. If you got a good profitable
1:04:02business, correct? You should be scaling
1:04:05from that perspective. Correct.
1:04:08>> And the most important question of the
1:04:10whole show, I am standing at a bar. What
1:04:12is your drink of choice?
1:04:15I'm going to really disappoint you, Ben.
1:04:17I'm not drinking anymore. [laughter]
1:04:20A lemonade, I don't know, a hot
1:04:22chocolate.
1:04:23Do you know what? I I'm say this in all
1:04:26of them, but I'm going to do a thing at
1:04:27the end of the year. I think the tea
1:04:28total route is probably or the
1:04:30non-alcoholic is probably the most
1:04:32popular thing that I've had on all the
1:04:34podcasts this year.
1:04:35>> Is that really interesting?
1:04:37>> I think it probably I think it probably
1:04:39is. If you went somebody went tea total
1:04:42or red wine or beer or whatever, it
1:04:44would definitely win. And I I would
1:04:45think the split is now 50/50 of tea
1:04:49total and then alcoholic.
1:04:51>> Amazing.
1:04:52>> Which is really interesting.
1:04:54>> Now drinking. It's a really nice change
1:04:56especially from our industry which is
1:04:58>> notorious for the the other side of
1:05:00life, right? But it's yeah, it's a
1:05:02really interesting it's a really
1:05:03interesting thing. Quite a lot of
1:05:04business owners are saying I don't do it
1:05:06because I need to function and this is
1:05:08not helping me function. this is not
1:05:09helping me longevity, health, etc. It's
1:05:12a really interesting thing. It's really
1:05:14interesting.
1:05:15Huntley, it's been an absolute pleasure.
1:05:17As I said, it was an honor to have you
1:05:19on the podcast for you to find an to get
1:05:20an hour of Huntley's time when you're in
1:05:22the same place, not in a car traveling.
1:05:23It's been an absolute honor. So, thank
1:05:24you so much for joining us on the show
1:05:26today and hopefully people have enjoyed
1:05:27listening. So,
1:05:29>> pleasure. Thank you for having me.
1:05:30Learned a lot. No problems as well.
1:05:32Thank you.
1:05:39>> [music]
1:05:40>> A massive thank you to Huntley for
1:05:41coming on the business takeaway podcast.
1:05:43Um it's very the time is very much
1:05:46obviously industry [music] chat uh in
1:05:47that podcast but also a lot of very good
1:05:49business lessons. Huntley's been in this
1:05:50industry for 40 years. You don't get to
1:05:52that level and the size that he [music]
1:05:54is as a company um without having some
1:05:56really solid business ideas and business
1:05:58concepts. and to hear him actually speak
1:06:00[music]
1:06:01um and for him to give us an hour of his
1:06:03time as well for the show was was was it
1:06:05was much appreciated and I thoroughly
1:06:07thoroughly enjoyed that interview of you
1:06:08[music] um and really enjoyed him being
1:06:10on the show. If this is the first
1:06:12episode you've listened to Business
1:06:13Takeaway podcast, we thank you for
1:06:15listening, watching [music] uh to us
1:06:17today and if you have enjoyed it, please
1:06:18do tick that follow, like, subscribe
1:06:21button um to make sure you get [music]
1:06:22notifications about up andcoming shows
1:06:24um and make sure you find out what we've
1:06:27got going on. Um indeed if you are
1:06:28[music] following and would like to go
1:06:30back and listen to some of our previous
1:06:32episodes there's a whole back catalog
1:06:33now some 40 50 episodes out there that
1:06:36[music] you'll be able to find um and
1:06:38have a listen to some of our previous
1:06:39guests. Um so it just leaves me to say
1:06:41thank you so much for joining us today
1:06:42on the show and we look forward to
1:06:44seeing you on the next episode of the
1:06:46[music] Business Takeaway podcast.

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