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Why Should Students Love America? | Dr. Larry Arnn — Transcript

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0:02we believe and have always believed in
0:04this country that man was created in the
0:06image of god he was given talents and
0:08responsibilities and was instructed to
0:10use them
0:11to make this world a better place in
0:13which to live and you see this is the
0:15really great thing of america
0:17it's time to discover what binds us
0:20together and finding it has the power to
0:22transform our world
0:24that's what i believe
0:26how about
0:28you hi everyone i'm doug devos and uh
0:31welcome to believe uh glad to have you
0:34with us again and today we have a a
0:35wonderful opportunity to talk to larry
0:38yarn the president of hillsdale college
0:40and
0:41for those of you who are familiar with
0:42hillsdale you know the strength of the
0:44school
0:45and the reputation that it's built
0:48and the topic today that we want to talk
0:50about is
0:52in higher education or in education in
0:55general today what should kids be
0:57learning about america what should we
1:00love about america or or learn about
1:02america uh and and you know hillsdale
1:05college and dr larry iron have been
1:08incredible
1:09advocates of understanding our history
1:12uh
1:12in a way that i think is uh i think is
1:14helpful and that helps us
1:17grasp what we should believe or what we
1:19should consider believing ourselves
1:21as we go forward you know because uh you
1:24know your family you may have different
1:25beliefs one way or the other a lot of
1:27kids love america and a lot of kids
1:29maybe don't right now so uh so this is a
1:32great opportunity uh to to get together
1:35with with an expert uh with a great
1:37friend like dr larry yarn so larry
1:39welcome and thank you for joining us uh
1:41and we'll just dive right in help us
1:44understand a little bit about
1:47how we talk about america in an
1:49educational environment well how should
1:51we how do
1:52should we be teaching kids to love
1:54america
1:55uh well the first thing is teach them to
1:58understand it uh know it right
2:01we've
2:03extensively lost the love of america and
2:06so now we have to have a discussion
2:07about whether it's worthy of love
2:10and before you even get to that you have
2:13to start with the fact that
2:14uh
2:15it's a it's a doctrine of the classics
2:18it's an obvious thing
2:20people were made to get live together in
2:22political communities
2:23uh the aristotle traces that to our
2:26ability to talk which is unique to us
2:29uh and so either you're gonna live under
2:32laws or you're going to be miserable
2:35and there's almost no
2:37history of
2:38nations
2:39of
2:40groups of people surviving long without
2:43law
2:44so
2:46studying law the phenomenon of law the
2:49phenomena of politics is necessary
2:51and you should start with your own
2:53because your own is very consequential
2:55in your life
2:56uh we would probably value america
2:59better
3:00if we lived in russia
3:02right today
3:03much much better if we lived in
3:06in china today
3:08so
3:10you need to know it to call yourself an
3:12educated person
3:13uh and then what should you know about
3:16america
3:17first of all american history is
3:19amazingly coherent
3:21uh
3:22it starts you know the country was born
3:25on a day it has a birthday
3:28you can ask yourself
3:30when did england start when did china
3:33start
3:34and the answer is a long time ago
3:37uh
3:38exactly what date is controversial
3:41uh we have the declaration of
3:42independence we can read it and see what
3:44it says uh also the the founding that
3:47produced the declaration of independence
3:49and its partner the constitution
3:52that too is not so long ago
3:55and it's very much in the time of
3:56recorded history
3:58so you can not only read those documents
4:00you could read
4:02why they were written and who wrote them
4:04and what they thought about them
4:06so you can know
4:08and it's a great thing to know
4:11so you should start with that just to
4:12figure out what it is
4:14and uh
4:16you know the the
4:17uh the decorative independence is a
4:19beautiful document and an inspiring
4:21document and also a challenging document
4:25uh
4:25because the first thing that you have to
4:27try to do is understand it
4:29uh
4:30the the
4:32uh the first paragraph of the
4:33death race of independence
4:35mentions the laws of nature and of
4:37nature's god
4:39all right it'd be a good idea to find
4:41out what those are
4:42what do they mean by that because it's a
4:45very interesting situation
4:47uh
4:48the declaration of independence begins
4:50universally
4:52uh it begins
4:53when in the course of human events that
4:55means any old time
4:57it becomes necessary for one people and
4:59that means any people
5:01to assume the powers of the earth
5:05to which they are entitled under the
5:07laws of nature and nature's god
5:10well that
5:11expression in that way of beginning is
5:13the solution to a problem they have
5:16they're about to throw off a system of
5:18law the british monarchy and
5:20constitution
5:22which is by the way a long way from the
5:23worst system of law
5:25right but right not not not good in some
5:28important ways
5:30and they need some authority for doing
5:32that
5:33and they don't say just because we want
5:35to
5:36they say there's some standard above
5:39even us
5:41that makes this right
5:43and indeed
5:44anything any time that violates that
5:48standard
5:49is not in the right i mean you know
5:52in china right now
5:54they control people's speech and
5:57livelihood
5:58not under the rule of law but according
6:00to the will of certain powerful people
6:02is that right is that right for china
6:06it might be the best they can do
6:08but if you lived under it you wouldn't
6:10like it because it's not the right way
6:12to treat a human being
6:13so first of all already you see
6:17there's a remarkable series of things to
6:19know
6:20about the country
6:22and and uh and so one should
6:25students
6:26they should
6:28dwell on those
6:30they should think what those mean right
6:33the work of a student is not to
6:36just believe what they're told
6:38they're to
6:41think
6:42and
6:43figure out what's true
6:45and the the american founding unusually
6:48to a unique extent i believe
6:51invites one to do that
6:53so you should go into that effort
6:56and uh then then you know it's uh
7:00there's a lot of things you need to know
7:02to understand
7:04politics you know and i i don't mean
7:06just american politics politics a human
7:08phenomenon
7:10let me let me interrupt right there and
7:11just you've given us so much to start
7:13thinking about in the first the first
7:16thing is that that
7:18i'm going to read back is one of the
7:20last things you said we're not just
7:22telling
7:23students something to believe we're
7:25trying to get them to think so that they
7:28get to their own belief system uh
7:32and and i
7:33it feels sometimes that that
7:36that isn't happening in in
7:39many education situations where many
7:42times
7:42you know students you know are
7:45to a certain extent trained i got it i
7:47gotta get you know a good grade on this
7:49test i gotta
7:51you know uh you know become friends with
7:53this professor or have a relationship
7:56and so i'd better give them what they
7:58want
8:00and and you know there's there's enough
8:03speculation there's enough stories out
8:04there where somebody may have given a
8:06good paper but it wasn't what the
8:07professor wanted uh
8:10and
8:10therefore they weren't necessarily
8:13taught to think they were taught to
8:15follow in the footsteps if you will of
8:18someone
8:19of someone who was in power which kind
8:21of gets to the other things you were
8:22saying about people and imposing power
8:26uh on the other but let's leave those
8:28thoughts for just a second tell us a
8:30little more
8:31about you and how you came
8:35your upbringing what you were thinking
8:37how you got to
8:39a point of believing
8:41the things you believe today
8:44so tell us a little bit more about
8:46about you
8:47uh well it uh you know my story is not
8:49terribly remarkable i grew up in a very
8:52privileged circumstance i i had a poor
8:55father and mother who worked very hard
8:57so i got to see that
8:59and they like to read books
9:01and put those two two things together
9:03you're on your way
9:04and uh and so i was curious and you know
9:08everybody is naturally curious
9:11and i was good at school
9:13and uh it emerged
9:15over time that i saw
9:18that there were contradictions
9:20everywhere you look
9:21and contradictions invite you to try to
9:24figure them out
9:25and so i
9:27embarked on that a big turning point in
9:29my life the reason i'm not a lawyer
9:31i like to say i'm not a lawyer i'm an
9:33educated
9:37i'm sure our lawyers are going to love
9:38that excuse me lawyers
9:42it you know
9:43i read
9:44i was made to do it in undergraduate
9:46school i was made to read plato's
9:49republic i tried to resist it
9:52and
9:53the the the first the theme of plato's
9:56republic is what is justice
9:58what is the right treatment of other
10:00people
10:01and early on there's a clue there's a
10:03fight between socrates and some
10:06and a sophist that's somebody
10:09who many of the socratic dialogues
10:11involve sophist
10:12and that's somebody who teaches young
10:14people
10:15ambitious young people
10:17how to argue in order to win and get
10:19power
10:21which is something different than the
10:22truth
10:23and socrates destroys that man
10:26and then he
10:28then those two young men
10:30become his students
10:32their names are glaucon and adiamanas
10:35and they happen to be plato's brother
10:37brothers
10:38and so plato's
10:40brothers
10:42are in a in a contest for the for their
10:45souls
10:46and plato's teacher is leading them as
10:49he led plato
10:51and so that's a great drama
10:53and i began to understand the
10:55significance of that and i learned from
10:57that
10:58to ask
11:00not just what my opinion is you know
11:02just what anybody's opinion is and not
11:05just what the powerful opinion is
11:07what is the truth of the matter
11:09because that's what we really want to
11:10know we want to know
11:12what's right we all want to know that
11:16and so that's you know i became a
11:18student it was more serious i'd always
11:20been i used to be really good at making
11:22a's
11:23then i became a student i wanted to find
11:26out
11:27i went to graduate school i studied
11:30the classics and the american revolution
11:33and abe lincoln and winston churchill
11:35those are my main fields and
11:38i studied them because they taught those
11:40things there but also the particular mix
11:43of them with me
11:44was driven by what i loved by what sung
11:47to me
11:50your colleague stephen ford for example
11:52i know i know his loves
11:55because i watched him grow up
11:57and he's better at the things that he
11:59loves in particular than he is at
12:00everything
12:02so i i followed that track and and uh
12:05i did come very much to love the story
12:08and meaning of america i think it's one
12:11of the greatest things that ever
12:12happened
12:13but that's a conclusion that you preach
12:16you know you don't start by saying
12:19uh
12:20we at hillsdale college for example
12:23we don't start our classes by saying
12:26you're going to find out the truth and
12:28here's what it is
12:30we start rather in another way
12:32this is a beautiful thing to understand
12:35let's see if we can understand it
12:37and that's how you read shakespeare and
12:39that's how you read plato and that's how
12:41you read the american revolution
12:43and that's how you study physics or
12:45chemistry or biology
12:47you give yourself to it
12:50so i learned to do that and uh then i
12:53discovered you know
12:55a huge change in my life when it came
12:57when i moved to michigan
12:59and i moved to michigan because i
13:00discovered i didn't know it
13:03not many people knew it back then
13:05hillsdale college was actually founded
13:06by people who became friends of abraham
13:08lincoln
13:09wow and you know that's what what an
13:12incredible history what an incredible
13:13legacy awesome to me right and
13:16you know the platform that lincoln was
13:18elected president in 1860 the first
13:22version of it was written in a building
13:23that stands on this campus today
13:26oh my goodness lincoln's friend
13:28frederick douglass spoke on this campus
13:30twice
13:32and the college wasn't making a lot of
13:34the a lot of those things
13:36but i've discovered them not because
13:38they told me
13:40and i
13:41i went wow
13:43that's a beautiful thing
13:46it is a wow you know i just you know and
13:48i just thought
13:49maybe it would be possible
13:52to what it always seemed to me
13:53impossible which was to
13:56turn a college into a community
13:58and so i think we've done that and
14:00that's why it's not because of me
14:02it's because those things are beautiful
14:05and we study those things
14:07wow wow
14:08wow
14:09thank you for that
14:11uh history that it always helps so much
14:13to put
14:14you know put your perspective your
14:16beliefs your leadership
14:18uh you know you know in perspective by
14:21the experiences that you've had and the
14:23curiosity that you expressed by gaining
14:26a level of understate of understanding
14:28of seeking out you know being curious
14:31about you know justice or truth
14:35let me let me
14:37ask a little bit uh and and i have to
14:39get
14:41to frederick douglass being on campus i
14:43i just
14:44again a huge fan
14:47the constitution the declaration i i'm
14:50involved with the national constitution
14:51center in philadelphia and so i i've
14:53tried to learn so much i've just really
14:56enjoyed it
14:57but our nation
14:59while it has a a wonderful rich history
15:00does not have a perfect history and and
15:02frederick douglass
15:05recognized that but but he also
15:08talked about
15:09his appreciation and that our best path
15:12forward was to build on the founding
15:14principles in the declaration
15:16can you help us understand that a little
15:18bit more in in that relationship and how
15:21uh how our nation can
15:24learn from things how it can redirect
15:26how it can improve itself uh
15:29in the structure that we have how we can
15:32find things we believe and then and then
15:34seek as a nation to pursue those things
15:36well the um yeah so good question um
15:41america is very different than most
15:43countries because it begins
15:46with an explanation and you're invited
15:48to believe it which means you're also
15:50invited to disagree with it
15:52and many people did there was a war
15:55fought over it
15:56and one can read them
15:58you know
15:59the constitution i regard as a great
16:01document the people who opposed it
16:03didn't
16:05and to understand the people who
16:06supported it you have to also read the
16:08people who opposed it
16:10and it has to make a case for itself
16:13and so what's unusual about our country
16:16is not that it's imperfect they all are
16:19it's that it holds up a standard of
16:22perfection
16:23and invites one to compare
16:26and no serious american has ever made
16:29the argument that this is a perfect
16:31country
16:35the most serious uh americans to my mind
16:38frederick douglass is one of them
16:39abraham lincoln is one of them george
16:41washington is one of them
16:44they called upon the nation to attempt
16:46to live up to its its principles
16:50uh
16:51lincoln said this thing that just
16:53contains a world of meaning in a short
16:55uh
16:57statement he says uh
17:00the electric cord
17:02that binds american
17:05is
17:06the statement of equality
17:08in the declaration of independence and
17:10then he says
17:12uh always to be striven for
17:15always to be sought after never to be
17:18holy attained
17:20you see in other words there's no
17:23surprise
17:24in the fact that
17:26the country is not print perfect it's a
17:28country
17:30uh the remarkable thing about it where's
17:32the perfection for which it aims right
17:34what uh what a great way to
17:36uh to to think about that
17:38and so how do we
17:41how do we as a nation in the division
17:43that we have and the struggles that we
17:44have how do we find our way forward
17:48because as you say there's there's
17:49people on
17:51on both sides there are people that were
17:52you know liked the declaration who knows
17:54who didn't like it those are people who
17:56liked the constitution those who didn't
17:57like it there's people who like america
17:59those who don't like america what what
18:01what are the
18:03what's the right way
18:06or what's maybe not a right or wrong let
18:08me not say it that way what's a
18:09productive way
18:12to not like america because i tend to
18:15observe a lot of people who
18:17who say they don't like america and i
18:19and but i don't i don't see them being
18:21productive to
18:24um
18:26move it forward or to offer
18:28recommendations or suggestions or to
18:30go shoulder to shoulder to work together
18:32with people who like it to make it
18:34better help us understand the
18:36consequences of of not liking america
18:40but
18:41you know and then taking that too far
18:43well you know i that's very good uh i
18:46said before it you know it's too late to
18:48simply
18:49as as things are today to simply say you
18:51ought to like america
18:53uh
18:54it
18:55the the question is what is it
18:58let's find out about it right because
19:01it's not what
19:02uh
19:04it's uh silliest partisans or silliest
19:08enemies say it's a set of claims
19:12and they can be evaluated
19:14and that's that's what students do right
19:17you don't
19:18uh
19:19you don't
19:21educate first of all you don't educate a
19:24child
19:25by doing anything to them
19:28it's not like manufacturing it's like
19:30helping something to grow
19:32and so the question is always let's find
19:34out about this
19:35and let's find about out about this in
19:37comparison to other things
19:39both what what does it claim it is and
19:42what is in fact it is
19:44and also what do other things claim and
19:46what are they in fact
19:48and and uh you know then you're
19:50that's why you know
19:52the first line in aristotle's
19:54metaphysics a very great book is
19:56the human being stretches himself out to
19:59know
20:01not wants to know stretches himself out
20:03to know we love to know if you walk in a
20:06classroom full of 20 little kids or big
20:09kids it doesn't matter where they are
20:10and doesn't matter who they are
20:12you can take it for granted they want to
20:14know
20:15and the first thing is just to find out
20:18and the subject is not what do i think
20:21about this
20:22you can't answer that until you know
20:24what it is
20:26and you know i argue
20:28and believe
20:30that america is the most beautiful of
20:32the modern countries
20:35uh imperfect though it is of course it
20:37is a human thing right they're all
20:39imperfect
20:40but to make that argument
20:44first you have to become acquainted with
20:46what it is and so you start now
20:49at the at the high school at the at the
20:51k through 12 there's two different kinds
20:53of things we do here
20:55uh in the college level
20:58the way you find out what a thing is is
20:59look at it directly
21:01read the documents read whatever record
21:04there is read whatever science there is
21:07about whatever subject you're studying
21:09and
21:10figure it out
21:11earlier
21:12you know
21:14kids started studying some civics in the
21:16fourth grade by law practice and
21:19tradition
21:20and we think that's right
21:22but and they should get acquainted with
21:24the words
21:25of the basic documents of america
21:27but they can't quite read them and
21:29understand them yet
21:31and so they need a fair textbook
21:35and a fair teacher
21:37and and you don't have to worry too much
21:40about prejudicing them
21:43because they're going to figure it out
21:44for themselves anyway
21:46especially if the education goes on and
21:48by the time they get to 11th grade and
21:50then by the time they get to college
21:52they're actually reading all the stuff
21:54for themselves
21:55and so
21:56you know i i i believe that the founders
21:59of hillsdale college were right
22:01that slavery was an evil
22:04but
22:06that wasn't a unanimous opinion
22:08uh john calhoun
22:11uh fred uh stephen douglas uh jefferson
22:15davis
22:16they argued that it was a good thing
22:19and people took the kill on each other
22:20over that
22:22and so what you do is read those
22:23arguments
22:25what seems true
22:27and and uh and that you know it's only
22:30when you've done that
22:32that you can intelligently think about
22:35what you think and and here's a rule
22:38it's a it's an overriding rule
22:42education
22:43is not about you
22:45it's about the thing you're studying
22:48and
22:49truly that will have an effect on you
22:52so one of the first jobs you've got to
22:54do with kids
22:56is still get them to still themselves
22:59and open themselves to see this thing
23:03right
23:04we have a constitution reader here that
23:06we think is the best microcosm of the
23:09story of america and it's all in
23:11original source documents
23:14well on one page you can read
23:17john c calhoun
23:19reading right arguing that slavery is
23:22good for the slaves
23:23and on the next page you can read the
23:25alabama slave code
23:28and you know that's the rules that
23:29govern
23:30slaves and slave owners and free people
23:33too in alabama
23:35every
23:36free white male in alabama
23:39had to ride posses posse one night a
23:42month
23:43as a volunteer whether they were slave
23:45owners or not
23:46looking for runaways
23:49and the intelligent student will say
23:51wow
23:52i wonder why they were trying to get
23:54away
23:55you know
24:00so you know in other words
24:03you have to suspend
24:04what you think
24:06and open
24:08yourself and that's what you know the
24:10possession of the moral and intellectual
24:12virtues are very closely related
24:15and one thing the moral virtues
24:17teach you to do
24:19is to look at other things and see them
24:21as they actually are
24:23not tempered not altered by your
24:27wants or your fears
24:29you know you have to learn to sit down
24:32and look at it and possess your soul
24:34when you do it
24:36and
24:37we don't do that in school so much
24:39anymore
24:40because we're actually presenting them
24:43an arbitrary world
24:46you know the new york times has done
24:47that frightful 1619 project
24:50and and they claim that the movement
24:55of the founding of america from the
24:56colonies forward
24:58was in the direction of perpetuating
25:01slavery
25:02now
25:03the leading
25:05american historian today is a man named
25:07gordon wood
25:08son a student of the former leading
25:12historian a guy named bernard baylen and
25:15gordon wood has written in response to
25:17that
25:18no colonist
25:20wrote
25:21such a thing
25:22ever
25:23in other words there's not a shred of
25:26evidence for it
25:29and they they didn't retract the new
25:30york times they just altered their
25:32explanation on the website without
25:34calling any attention to it
25:37what they had said was this is the true
25:38story
25:40now they say
25:41this is the new narrative
25:44but see the narrative is something
25:45different than the story
25:48and that means that's something they're
25:49proposing to the students
25:52and it should be identified like that to
25:54them
25:54and honest people
25:56would invite the students to compare
25:59what they say to what was said at the
26:02time
26:04and you know we we we have hindsight
26:08that's one of the things you have to
26:09take out of it because you don't get to
26:11use it you know in making your own
26:13choices
26:14but we should certainly
26:16look at what people say today but we
26:18should compare it
26:20to the record that exists which isn't in
26:22this case it's very rich
26:25so
26:27i'm sorry again larry when you talk
26:30about
26:32education students teaching learning
26:36you have a reverence about you
26:39that that that this is a
26:41you know not only for you but for the
26:44student and for the teacher this is a
26:47this is a calling
26:48and for those of us listening to you
26:52you know i'm hearing your encouragement
26:55say
26:56you're not going to tell us what to
26:58believe you can tell us what you believe
27:01but you're going to encourage us to
27:03be curious enough
27:05and
27:06work enough to
27:08go to the documents
27:10to
27:12sign up for a class or or do something
27:15so that we can
27:19form our own beliefs and and you seem
27:23so so powerfully
27:25uh
27:27committed to that idea am i am i seeing
27:29that right yeah well hearing that right
27:31you know we all make choices in our
27:33lives and uh
27:35hillsdale college has been successful
27:37since i've been here and that means i
27:40could go and do a lot of other things i
27:42don't want right
27:43you know right
27:44the the sublimest human activity outside
27:48church
27:49is contemplating the best things with
27:52friends
27:53and that's what college is supposed to
27:55be wow wow and and uh you know i mean
27:58colleges are scenes of strife and
28:00hostility today
28:02ours is not
28:04and the reason is by the way everyone
28:06here every transaction at hillsdale
28:08college is done by people
28:10who want to do it
28:13you know they're volunteers
28:15and so you know i just had a bunch of
28:16kids in here for lunch and
28:19we just we just sat and talked about
28:22nothing in particular
28:24supposed to be 50 minutes and it lasted
28:27until this
28:28conversation started almost two hours
28:31because
28:32they want to figure out the world
28:34right and and so i know about the world
28:37quite a lot i'm older than they are and
28:39they know a lot about and so we just
28:40talked about that and it was sublime it
28:42was awesome and
28:44if we
28:46the the i actually believe
28:48the key
28:49to recovering
28:51america which i think is being lost
28:54maybe fatally
28:56is to learn about it
28:59because it's a great thing to know
29:02and and uh you know i mean
29:05you know we got all these charter
29:07schools right and they're just
29:09they're just uh besieging us there's so
29:11many people who want to start them
29:14right
29:14and
29:15why
29:16kids parents want their kids to know
29:20you know
29:22no parent
29:24gets up in the morning and says
29:26as a final end
29:30i want my kids to love america
29:33they all want is they want our their
29:35kids to be happy which requires them to
29:37be good
29:39and that means they're going to have to
29:40know a lot of things and all of the
29:42fundamental things
29:44right
29:45so you know in school
29:47schools fight with the parents all the
29:49time we don't
29:51right
29:53you know first of all you don't have to
29:54be there it's a choice
29:56but second
29:57uh
29:58let's say my daughter
30:00founded a school it's a very great
30:02school i'm partial of course to her but
30:04uh right right uh when she started it
30:08she'd been a college professor she's
30:10attractive woman phd great teacher
30:14the world's her oyster
30:16and she wants to have a family and she
30:19wants her husband to get a big job
30:20academic job
30:22and she wants flexibility and i said
30:24well you should start a school
30:27and she said i could never do that
30:29and i said all right
30:31a few minutes later she said why did you
30:32say that and i said well
30:34who's the world leading expert about two
30:37things
30:37you and running a school
30:39you'll be good at it in three months
30:42now i'll tell you the first week
30:46uh you know girls and dads are
30:48a remarkable thing right boys and dads
30:51are remarkable too just in a different
30:52way
30:53i i have three i have three girls myself
30:55so i know uh i know what you're talking
30:57about i've been good looking too i know
30:58your wife
31:01it's uh
31:02yeah and they and she said she called me
31:04you know three four times a week and
31:06she said dad they treat me like a
31:08servant
31:09and i said uh
31:11okay
31:12she said they give me list of things
31:15move the bicycle rack stuff like that
31:19and i said well that'll stop
31:22and she said how will i stop it and i
31:23said
31:24you will
31:25stand in front of them
31:28do i remember you wrote your doctoral
31:29thesis on aristotle
31:31she said yes i did i said maybe you know
31:34what to tell them
31:35tell them
31:36what's going to become
31:38of their
31:39children
31:41they will become good people
31:44which means courageous and moderate and
31:46just and wise
31:49right a blessing to all who know them
31:52tell them that
31:53she said how will i get them to come and
31:55i said silly goose
31:57you have their children they will come
32:00and you know two weeks later she called
32:02and said
32:03boy that works see
32:06because it's nature right it's how
32:08things work and so
32:10we want our children
32:12you know we we don't actually want our
32:16children
32:17to have a particular disposition in
32:19anything political
32:21we want them to be just
32:23we want them to be free
32:25we want them to be fair right and so
32:28they have to learn what those things are
32:31and there needn't be any controversy
32:33about the good of those things everybody
32:35recognizes the good of those things
32:38right right and so
32:40then you have to study how do you get
32:42that good
32:44and it turns out that's very hard
32:46and there are major wars and
32:49decades generations long controversies
32:52about that
32:53but you can study those things and then
32:56maybe you can get a better opinion
32:58and bring a better benefit to everybody
33:01you meet
33:02yeah
33:03well you you articulate you this i this
33:06idea of learning in in
33:08teaching in in a really beautiful and
33:10important way for all of us to to to
33:12learn and to think about things
33:13differently i'm sure that people would
33:16you know
33:16when they think of hillsdale they would
33:18have this is a brand and and they teach
33:20this
33:21and they might break it down to this
33:24type of philosophy or this type of
33:26thinking but
33:27what we're hearing from you is is your
33:30your
33:31passion for having people to be curious
33:33to search out for themselves you teach
33:35them how to learn
33:38or help them
33:39and we can define the word teach and it
33:42doesn't mean when we use the word it
33:44doesn't mean telling them what we think
33:47it means helping them understand
33:50right you know i i knew you know i'm
33:52very scandalous person so i knew russian
33:55limbaugh for many years liked him a lot
33:57too
33:58and don't apologize for it today well
34:02he said to me one time how do you make
34:04them conservative and i said i don't
34:07he said you don't i said no you can't do
34:10that
34:11i mean if they're any good
34:13you know because i say so doesn't work
34:16right right and he said huh he said are
34:18they conservative and i said yeah mostly
34:21and he said how does that happen i said
34:24if you teach them to find the value in
34:26an old book
34:28you have undercut the central premises
34:31of modern liberalism
34:34you know if shakespeare
34:37was as good or better a writer
34:40than anybody we have today
34:42that means it's not just all a progress
34:46and it means that the standards of the
34:47past
34:49could reflect something eternal
34:52and so you got to get you know another
34:54thing about education is
34:56it has to take you out of yourself
34:59right i mean i swear i look at what they
35:02do in the public schools now
35:04and it's like they want them to just
35:05learn everything about
35:07civics from reading the newspaper today
35:10right
35:11and that'll turn them into slaves
35:13right
35:14uh people often tell me it's a crisis
35:16you know
35:19kids don't pay any attention to the news
35:22and i say why is that a crisis
35:24it depends on what they're doing with
35:26their time
35:27but
35:28the news you'll never understand the
35:30news until you understand some history
35:33and some political thought and some
35:36literature
35:38and so that's what kids should be doing
35:40getting good at that
35:43it's it's hard to do with you know
35:45anything coming at them whether it's the
35:46news or social media it always feels to
35:49me like you have to put it in context
35:51you know who you are you know where you
35:53are you have a a place and therefore
35:56whatever whatever's coming at you
35:57doesn't feel overwhelming
36:00um
36:01is that a
36:03is that a a as you
36:05are articulated that that's a a a flaw
36:08or a challenge in a lot of the education
36:10that's done done today that you know
36:14subjects or information is just kind of
36:16pushed at somebody
36:18and it's a it's about getting it into
36:20their head so they could pass a test am
36:22i am i observing that correctly
36:25verses really trying just to unleash
36:27their curiosity am i hearing that
36:29correctly and then and does that then
36:32does that then drive
36:34the anxiety that a lot of parents feel
36:37when things like you know like the 1619
36:40project are taught or or like you
36:43are articulated or or or critical race
36:45theory is taught
36:47or
36:48your involvement with the 1776 project
36:51is
36:52is that the the gist of the angst that
36:54maybe many parents are feeling yeah and
36:56see you don't uh you think america's
36:59terrible and i think it's great and
37:01you're wrong
37:02right you'll never get away with that
37:04uh the question is what is it
37:07let's find out what it did
37:08and and uh
37:10and as i say remember it makes claims
37:13for itself
37:14that are amazingly coherent
37:17and deliberate
37:19it's not lost in the midst of time and
37:22that's you know you want to you want
37:24your
37:25your kid to navigate through the world
37:27today
37:28first of all they need to become
37:30intellectually and morally virtuous and
37:33because they'll never be any good if
37:34they don't and you know that that takes
37:37work
37:39and and uh and it takes and see
37:42here's a a wonderful thing in aristotle
37:46because see
37:47i i'll backtrack a second
37:50because
37:51science
37:52uh
37:54is it science is an old word that means
37:55to know
37:57uh
37:58technology is from an old word that
38:00means to make
38:02those are not the same thing and so now
38:06we
38:07live in an age when we think we by our
38:09own efforts can revolutionize the world
38:12and we're impatient with anything that
38:15doesn't
38:16make change
38:18change hope and change
38:21uh
38:22it uh
38:24so
38:25that leads us to do something in
38:27education and we do it both republican
38:29and democrat
38:30by the way
38:31uh
38:32sure we think we're going to make
38:36children into something
38:38we think it's like manufacturing
38:40it isn't
38:42it's like helping something grow
38:44right right and you know to be a teacher
38:46is a really great thing because uh
38:49what you see in the classroom is
38:53it doesn't matter what you think i mean
38:55what you know at least
38:56what matters is what they learn
38:59and their learning is to them a serious
39:02effort
39:03in fact it's hard it makes them tired
39:07if they're not straining at it they're
39:09not learning
39:11and so the growth is in them
39:13you see
39:14they want to know
39:16they'll never know
39:19if they're asleep so right and you know
39:22we think
39:23we're going to do something
39:26to them and that is very much not the
39:29way and it's good it's good for a person
39:32to
39:34teach a bunch of kids i mean we're very
39:36privileged here at hillsdale everybody
39:38wants to be here uh
39:40everybody's smart that's great you know
39:42and and everybody understands they've
39:44got to behave themselves and mostly they
39:46do
39:47but it's also true that they they strive
39:51and you get to help them
39:53all right help them grow
39:55and if if they don't strive they don't
39:57grow
39:58you know the only conversation you can
39:59have with somebody who gets you know
40:00what it happens
40:02uh young people live under pressures
40:04today
40:05and uh
40:06there's more depression than there used
40:08to be i don't think as much here as most
40:10places but there's more than there used
40:11to be
40:12right and and you know
40:14when they're in that condition the only
40:16conversation you're having with them is
40:19what's wrong here
40:20right how can we help you how above all
40:25how can you
40:26help you
40:27right right because you you know we are
40:30made in an awesome in a difficult
40:33situation
40:34we're just like a dog or a cat and
40:36needing to eat and strive and aging and
40:39getting sick and all that
40:41and yet we have these free souls
40:44and that raises the question what are we
40:46going to do with ourselves what we're
40:47going to do
40:48yeah what what what a great question to
40:51contemplate and and
40:52you know as as we kind of wrap our our
40:55time up here
40:56you've worked very hard the history of
40:58hillsdale has worked very hard
41:01to avoid
41:03any
41:04undue restraint
41:06from from the government
41:09to to not take government funding to to
41:12avoid those sorts of things certainly
41:14you apply standards to your
41:16you know curriculum and and things of
41:18that nature
41:19help us understand why is that so
41:22important for you to have that level of
41:24independence
41:26uh
41:26and and ability to
41:29continue to do what you do and
41:32what are you seeing from uh other
41:34institutions that uh
41:36you know that you look at and you you
41:38observe and you learn and and and you
41:40see their claims and you go okay don't
41:41want to go that direction we want to go
41:43our direction i'm trying to i'm trying
41:45to take on your learning here
41:47as best i can well they're all going
41:49broke right
41:52so first of all you have to understand
41:54the government has changed
41:56there are two
41:57american histories
41:59and the original one was a thing it had
42:01lots of trouble in it
42:03and the
42:04new one is a new kind of contest the old
42:06one
42:08it was deeply aware of the things that
42:10i'm saying
42:12that the virtue of the human being is in
42:14the human being others can only help
42:18education happens in the student
42:21government programs
42:23america was a very remarkable place
42:26tocqueville writes that
42:29when he comes here in the 1830s he says
42:31there's more government in america
42:34than in france which is the first
42:36centralized nation state
42:39but the way of the government is
42:41different
42:42in america it's local and voluntary
42:45that means we get to do it
42:48and that's inefficient in some ways he
42:50says
42:51but it gives everybody
42:53practice
42:54in living
42:56a life as a free person and the whole
42:59goal of america the beauty of it is
43:01everybody gets to live a fully human
43:03life
43:04and that means
43:06make your living
43:07raise your family
43:09learn if learn what you can all that
43:12right and it doesn't matter
43:14who your mom or your dad is
43:17uh and that's the that's the claim of
43:19america that's the beauty of it that's
43:20what the declaration of independence
43:22means
43:23right and and so today and schools
43:27were always very decentralized things
43:30uh
43:31and and you know they were subsidized by
43:33the way the in the northwest ordinance
43:35the biggest subsidy
43:37for education in american history was
43:39given it was given 132nd of the western
43:42lands here in michigan where we live
43:46but then the federal government didn't
43:48have anything to do with it after that
43:49it was for education in each township
43:53and it was given as an endowment to the
43:54states to manage
43:56and that meant the the 16th section of
43:59hillsdale township is about 400 yards
44:02behind me
44:04and the policies that were made what to
44:06do with that money were made here
44:09and that's
44:11america at its greatest
44:13now
44:14everything is done scientifically
44:17and bureaucratically scientifically
44:19means
44:20experts figure it out
44:23and bureaucratically means
44:26there are detailed rules governing
44:28behavior
44:29and that's what's wrong with everything
44:31in the american government today and
44:33that's why schools don't work very well
44:37because the rules are made by people who
44:39don't actually come into contact much
44:41with the students
44:42right and
44:43and you know the republicans are as
44:45guilty of of that
44:47as the democrats are
44:49because they believe that
44:51centralized testing is the key
44:54you know there's a certain recent
44:56secretary of education who's the best i
44:58ever saw right and i'm kind of i'm kind
45:01of partial to that
45:03everyone made one
45:03woman and
45:05she's she
45:08is very stubborn about that she would
45:10she wouldn't do that stuff right
45:12it's hard to do anything else because
45:14there's this huge bureaucracy
45:16but she held the line on that stuff and
45:19uh
45:20so yeah we and you know
45:22uh
45:23we started refusing the federal money in
45:26about 1960
45:28and it wasn't very much money back then
45:30we didn't like the principle of the
45:32thing because
45:33we're going to train the leaders of the
45:35country
45:36the government shouldn't be funding that
45:38how will they have any critical distance
45:41from the powerful people who run the
45:42government
45:44well that just got worse and worse and
45:46now it's a lot of money you know i think
45:48it's i think
45:50uh
45:51i can show you our auditors are very
45:53good they
45:55don't catch me at the stuff i do and
45:57they uh
45:58they do surveys of how the rest of the
46:00world works because we don't really know
46:03uh
46:05the
46:06average private college is collecting
46:10sixteen thousand five hundred dollars a
46:12year but of that
46:169 000 comes from federal student loans
46:19and 5 000 comes from federal student
46:22grants that means
46:24uh what is that that's uh
46:28five five thousand
46:30that's uh
46:32eighty-five percent
46:34yeah it's paid by the government and
46:36then there's the state government after
46:37that
46:38and so they call the tune now and they
46:41do it
46:42you know like uh
46:45your family country company is a marvel
46:47to me i've always admired it and uh
46:50and why
46:52it's not built on rules
46:54it's built on people working
46:58and benefiting and you know and doing a
47:00good job which means serving the
47:01customers well
47:03and
47:04you know that's you don't the only rule
47:07that you can actually enforce and
47:09everybody will remember is like a
47:11student rule here we we have very few
47:13student rules
47:14but the the overarching one is just be
47:17good be good yeah the golden rule if we
47:19stick with the golden rule we'll be
47:20pretty good yeah and that's and you know
47:23make that operative
47:25yeah that means everybody's got to agree
47:27that that's the goal yeah and then when
47:29they mess up here's a disciplined
47:31conversation around here
47:33uh
47:34what did you do
47:36you know i i i don't have as many as
47:39three or four of those i have one or two
47:41if that a year right and then i'm kind
47:44of bad and
47:45i'll end up talking to them and i'll say
47:47what'd you do
47:48and they'll tell me and i'll say was
47:50that a good thing to do
47:52and they say no and i say don't do that
47:54anymore
47:57[Laughter]
47:59you know
48:01if they do it again then maybe that's
48:02more serious but they don't very much
48:05so yeah it's it in other words
48:08we are made to govern ourselves and
48:11uh we need
48:13powerful external government of course
48:17but its purpose is to preserve our own
48:20self-government
48:23and that's we forget that these days and
48:25we think yeah you know the schools i
48:28mean you know i'll i'll mention it
48:31i didn't get along with the bush
48:33administration either of them very much
48:36because i don't care about the
48:37independence of our college
48:40and i think they should all be more open
48:41independent
48:43and then see if they are more
48:44independent then the effect of that is
48:47there's somebody who works on the campus
48:50who can be held responsible
48:52for the well-being of the college and
48:55the well-being of the students
48:57and also you can invite the parents in
48:59to help
49:01and so i didn't like all these uh
49:03centralized testing things
49:06and i didn't like them
49:07giving the department of education more
49:09authority over accreditation
49:12and why the accrediting accreditation
49:14system started in 1900
49:17the first one was in chicago we're
49:19charter members of that point one right
49:21right education department started in
49:23the late 70s
49:25now it has extensive control over the
49:28over all that and what it was before
49:31it was founded to be
49:33colleges would join up
49:35and every 10 years they'd go audit each
49:37other
49:38and report whether they seemed to be
49:39doing what they were saying they were
49:41doing
49:42and that's a healthy outside check right
49:45but you know kind of kind of a peer
49:48review sort of thing that's right that's
49:49all it was and you know i you know the
49:52report i have the report
49:54of our 1900
49:56accreditation and what it basically says
49:59is yeah they they seem to be doing what
50:01they say they do
50:03and that's you know and that's all you
50:04need because if it's
50:07if it's a competitive world and it ought
50:09to be except remember i just told you
50:1380
50:1590 of the money of all the colleges
50:18comes from a single source now
50:20but the truth is
50:22uh if it weren't like that then you
50:24could say here's my college this is what
50:27we do
50:28want to try it
50:30right and that would be good you know
50:32and and uh
50:34we we we're we're trying to abolish that
50:36these days yeah yeah well the whole
50:39competitive spirit
50:41is vital certainly in business and
50:43when you're competing for
50:45an opportunity to help a a student grow
50:48uh
50:49you you want the best people doing it
50:52absolutely and and so uh you know dr
50:55larry iron from uh hillsdale college
50:57thank you for
50:58uh thank you for your time and helping
51:00us understand
51:02uh the the perspective that you bring in
51:04hillsdale college brings to learning uh
51:07help helping us understand
51:10the the
51:12importance
51:13of our own curiosity uh in that process
51:17to seek out
51:19what it is
51:20and so that we understand what it is
51:22before we figure out what to believe
51:24about it
51:26you know and and pick a side if you will
51:28so uh we're grateful for your wisdom
51:30we're grateful for your time uh thanks
51:32for sharing with us uh and uh just to
51:35appreciate all that you do and then the
51:37fine folks and your friends at uh at
51:39hillsdale college uh it's a it's great
51:41adventure so thanks thanks for spending
51:42time with us you you you and your family
51:45are a blessing to our state and i
51:47appreciate you too
51:49well you're very kind you're very kind
51:51and so uh
51:53dr larry yarn larry thank you for
51:54joining us this is uh we'll wrap up this
51:57episode of believe and we'll look
51:58forward to seeing you all again very
52:00soon thanks everybody
52:03[Music]
52:06you

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This page contains the full transcript of Why Should Students Love America? | Dr. Larry Arnn by The Believe! Journal, generated from the public captions YouTube serves with the video. The transcript has 7,884 words across 1,471 segments, with the original timestamps preserved so you can click any line to jump to that moment in the embedded player.

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