Why Perspective Beats Empathy to Change Minds | Heather Hansen | TEDxGainesville — Transcript

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1. 0:14A few years ago, I was talking to a
2. 0:15friend who teaches at a local girls
3. 0:17school. And she and her girls had
4. 0:19decided to do a service project. And the
5. 0:21girls wanted to knit scarves for the
6. 0:23homeless people in their community.
7. 0:25So first they went to the yarn store and
8. 0:27they picked out the most beautiful yarn
9. 0:29they could find.
10. 0:30Then they took knitting lessons to make
11. 0:32sure that they got scarves and not
12. 0:34potholders.
13. 0:36And after taking those lessons and doing
14. 0:38the work, they ended up with 50
15. 0:40beautiful scarves to give away.
16. 0:43They took them to the shelter and they
17. 0:44were vibrating with excitement as they
18. 0:46approached the man at the front desk.
19. 0:48They opened up their bag filled with
20. 0:50hours of their work and he looked inside
21. 0:52and ooh'd and aah'd over these beautiful
22. 0:54scarves. But then, as the girls walked
23. 0:57away, he whispered to my friend,
24. 1:00"They're beautiful, but I don't think
25. 1:02they'll wear them."
26. 1:04Can you see why the homeless people
27. 1:06might not wear those scarves?
28. 1:08I couldn't see it at the time, but I do
29. 1:10now.
30. 1:11And it helps me to see that perspective
31. 1:14is better than empathy.
32. 1:17We talk a lot about empathy. We embrace
33. 1:19it. We encourage it. We even try to
34. 1:21mandate it. But I'm not really sure that
35. 1:24we understand it.
36. 1:26When you dive into the research on
37. 1:28empathy, you will see that there's a
38. 1:29number of different definitions of
39. 1:31empathy.
40. 1:33Daniel Goleman, who is the author of
41. 1:34Emotional Intelligence and the
42. 1:35contributor to the Harvard Business
43. 1:37Review book on empathy, has defined two
44. 1:40different kinds of empathy.
45. 1:42There's cognitive empathy, the ability
46. 1:45to see things through another person's
47. 1:47perspective.
48. 1:48And then there's emotional empathy,
49. 1:50which is the ability to feel what
50. 1:52another feels.
51. 1:54We tend to focus on emotional empathy,
52. 1:56feeling what someone else feels. But I
53. 1:59know that seeing what other people see,
54. 2:04what we're going to call perspective,
55. 2:06is the most important thing if you want
56. 2:09to change the world.
57. 2:11Let's go back to those scarves. You
58. 2:13might see scarves as warm, cozy, and
59. 2:16soft.
60. 2:17Now see them from a homeless person's
61. 2:19perspective.
62. 2:21Does anything change?
63. 2:23I learned the difference between
64. 2:24perspective and empathy in my years as a
65. 2:26trial attorney.
66. 2:28For over 20 years, I defended doctors
67. 2:30when sued them. And when a doctor is
68. 2:32sued, they are feeling afraid, ashamed,
69. 2:36and angry.
70. 2:38If I felt my doctor, my client's
71. 2:40feelings, I was not going to be able to
72. 2:42help them through the case and in fact,
73. 2:45it could actually hurt.
74. 2:47There was one situation where it hurt
75. 2:49pretty badly.
76. 2:51I represented a young female surgeon and
77. 2:54she reminded me a lot of myself, driven,
78. 2:57ambitious, and maybe a little bit
79. 3:00obsessive.
80. 3:01When you can relate to someone, when you
81. 3:03can identify with someone, research
82. 3:05shows that you actually feel more
83. 3:07empathy for them and I certainly did
84. 3:09with her. She was distressed about being
85. 3:11sued and I felt her distress. And then,
86. 3:14the weekend before we were to have
87. 3:15opening statements, she got a call from
88. 3:17her boss. She called me to tell me about
89. 3:20the call. Her boss had told her that if
90. 3:22we lost the case,
91. 3:23she was going to lose her job.
92. 3:25Now, she had wanted this job for her
93. 3:27entire career and she had moved herself
94. 3:29and her family across the country to
95. 3:31take this job. And as she told me all of
96. 3:34this, I could feel her fear and her
97. 3:36anger and her frustration.
98. 3:38And slowly, I could see that my lips
99. 3:41were expanding until they touched the
100. 3:43top of my nose.
101. 3:45I was having an allergic reaction to my
102. 3:48own stress hormones.
103. 3:51And I ended up spending that night in
104. 3:52the emergency room, hooked up to an IV
105. 3:55of Benadryl and steroids as an antidote
106. 3:58to my empathy.
107. 4:00My empathy was not going to help me to
108. 4:02advocate for my client. And if I wanted
109. 4:05to be a strong advocate for her and for
110. 4:07all of my future clients, I had to learn
111. 4:10to feel less and see more.
112. 4:14I had to learn perspective.
113. 4:17Perspective would allow me to be a
114. 4:19stronger advocate for my client. If I
115. 4:21could see the case from her perspective,
116. 4:24I could speak to her concerns. I could
117. 4:26speak to them in a way that maybe would
118. 4:28change the way that she saw things, that
119. 4:30she wouldn't be so afraid and scared.
120. 4:33And if I could see the case from a
121. 4:34jury's perspective,
122. 4:36then I could get to work to try to
123. 4:38change it.
124. 4:39Perspective beats empathy in the
125. 4:41courtroom.
126. 4:43Now let's talk health care.
127. 4:45If a doctor feels their patient's
128. 4:47feelings, they're going to feel pain,
129. 4:49fear, confusion, and anxiety.
130. 4:52That doesn't serve a patient or their
131. 4:54doctor.
132. 4:56But if a doctor can see the matter from
133. 4:58the patient's perspective, they know
134. 5:00what to say. They know what to explain.
135. 5:03They know how to advocate for their
136. 5:05patients and they know how to advocate
137. 5:07to their patients to help their patients
138. 5:09make choices that will lead to better
139. 5:10health.
140. 5:12They're also likely to reduce burnout
141. 5:14and be able to be more compassionate
142. 5:17when they see things from others
143. 5:18perspective without picking up on those
144. 5:20feelings.
145. 5:22Perspective beats empathy in health
146. 5:24care.
147. 5:25Perspective even beats empathy in the
148. 5:27corporate world.
149. 5:28According to a study in the Journal of
150. 5:30Business Psychology, one of the most
151. 5:32effective forms of diversity training is
152. 5:35having people write about things from
153. 5:38another's perspective.
154. 5:40Specifically in this study, they had a
155. 5:41group of people write about a day from
156. 5:44the perspective of an LGBTQ individual
157. 5:47or a racial minority. Seeing a day and
158. 5:50the challenges that that person might
159. 5:51face from their perspective.
160. 5:54And after doing that exercise, the
161. 5:56participants improved their attitudes
162. 5:59and their intentions towards those
163. 6:01groups and those improvements lasted for
164. 6:03up to 8 months.
165. 6:05Even more interesting, the improvements
166. 6:08were cross-referential, which means that
167. 6:10if they had a positive attitude they
168. 6:12were writing about LGBTQ individuals,
169. 6:14they also improved their attitudes
170. 6:16towards racial minorities and vice
171. 6:18versa.
172. 6:19Perspective beat empathy in the
173. 6:21corporate world as well.
174. 6:24Perspective taking can make every single
175. 6:26one of you a better advocate.
176. 6:28When you communicate,
177. 6:30you share perspectives.
178. 6:33But when you advocate, you change them.
179. 6:37Whose perspective do you want to change?
180. 6:39It could be a client, a partner, a
181. 6:41friend, a family member.
182. 6:43When you want to change someone's
183. 6:45perspective, you have got to see theirs
184. 6:48first.
185. 6:49You have got to understand them.
186. 6:52Once you do, then you can get to work
187. 6:55trying to change their perspective.
188. 6:58You know, in all of those years
189. 7:00defending doctors in medical malpractice
190. 7:01cases, I never had a single doctor on
191. 7:04any of my juries. In fact, I never had a
192. 7:08single doctor in the courtroom other
193. 7:10than my client, but every single member
194. 7:12of every single jury and every single
195. 7:14person in the courtroom, including the
196. 7:16judge, was a patient.
197. 7:19They all saw the world from a patient's
198. 7:21perspective.
199. 7:23My job was to change that and the only
200. 7:25way that I could change that would be to
201. 7:27really be to understand
202. 7:30the patient's perspective, the juror's
203. 7:32perspective. And then,
204. 7:35I could use evidence and stories that
205. 7:37would speak to that perspective.
206. 7:40Let's go back to those scarves.
207. 7:42When those girls were knitting the
208. 7:44scarves for the homeless people, they
209. 7:46were using a form of empathy.
210. 7:48They were feeling the homeless people's
211. 7:50cold.
212. 7:52But because they weren't seeing the
213. 7:54world from a homeless person's
214. 7:55perspective,
215. 7:57they couldn't see that for homeless
216. 7:58people,
217. 7:59scarves can be deadly weapons.
218. 8:02They couldn't see that when you're
219. 8:03homeless and you're sleeping on the
220. 8:05street,
221. 8:06a scarf is a way that you can be
222. 8:07strangled in your sleep.
223. 8:10They couldn't see that socks
224. 8:12would have been a much better choice.
225. 8:15Now you can see others perspective and
226. 8:17it just takes a little bit of work and a
227. 8:19little bit of practice. And the easiest
228. 8:21way, the best way to do it, is to ask
229. 8:26them.
230. 8:27Ask people, "What is your perspective?
231. 8:29How do you see the world and why?" And
232. 8:32then listen to their answers with true
233. 8:34curiosity.
234. 8:36When you do this, you start to see other
235. 8:39perspectives. And then you can take
236. 8:42action that speaks to that perspective.
237. 8:45And that action will be so much more
238. 8:47effective.
239. 8:49You know, I recently saw my friend and
240. 8:51once again, they're doing a service
241. 8:53project this year. But this year, their
242. 8:55approach has completely changed.
243. 8:57Now they really work to think about the
244. 9:00perspective of the people that they want
245. 9:01to serve.
246. 9:03This year they decided that they wanted
247. 9:04to serve the women at the local women's
248. 9:06shelter. And they knew those women were
249. 9:08likely feeling fear, frustration, anger,
250. 9:11and confusion. But they didn't try to
251. 9:13feel those feelings.
252. 9:15Instead, they tried to see the world
253. 9:16from those women's perspective.
254. 9:19And they decided that they would give
255. 9:20them socks and underwear.
256. 9:23But then they went a step further and
257. 9:24they went to the shelter and they talked
258. 9:27to the leaders there. And the leaders
259. 9:28said, "Socks and underwear are a great
260. 9:31idea." And then, the girls got to work.
261. 9:34And they started knitting more scarves.
262. 9:37And then they sold them.
263. 9:38And with the money that they earned,
264. 9:40they bought socks and underwear.
265. 9:43And the home the women at that shelter
266. 9:44were very happy with what they received.
267. 9:48Scarves can be a big mistake.
268. 9:51They can be deadly weapons.
269. 9:54Or they They be the source of enormous
270. 9:57good.
271. 9:58It all depends
272. 10:00on your perspective.
273. 10:02Thank you.