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Why Nobody Has Close Friends Anymore — Transcript

by Vinh Giang · 6,888 words · 1,072 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00How many people in your life would you
0:02trust with a personal secret? In the
0:0480s, the most common answer was three.
0:07They ran that survey again about 10
0:08years ago, and the most common answer
0:10was zero.
0:11>> Whoa.
0:11>> People spend more time alone than ever
0:13before. People have fewer friends than
0:15ever before. People are dating less than
0:17ever before.
0:17>> To the point now where when we sit
0:19across from someone is I don't know what
0:20to say. Well, it's because you never
0:21practiced knowing what to say. So Mark,
0:23why aren't people talking anymore?
0:24>> A lot of our social life is actually the
0:27product of friction. You used to go into
0:29a bank and used to talk to a bank teller
0:31to deposit your paycheck [music] each
0:33week. And so over time you got to know
0:35your bank teller and you got to know the
0:36other people at the bank and the [music]
0:38people in your neighborhood who went to
0:39the bank. So there's all of this just
0:40micro contact that we had with the
0:42outside world that through the
0:44convenience created through technology
0:46and software is been removed from our
0:48lives.
0:49>> We're going to break down the loneliness
0:50epidemic, the psychology side which Mark
0:52is an expert in, and what makes and
0:54creates great connection. My name's Vin.
0:56I'm a communication coach and one of the
0:58reasons why I wrote my book Before We
0:59Forget How to Connect is because I
1:01believe as a society we're losing one of
1:04the most important skills and abilities,
1:06the skill of being able to develop
1:08deeper, more real, meaningful, fun
1:10connections with another human being.
1:12And I'm joined by three times number one
1:15New York Times bestselling author Mark
1:16Manson. So Mark, thank you so much.
1:18Welcome to our YouTube channel.
1:19>> It's a pleasure.
1:20>> This is a skill that we're losing and I
1:23feel it and I feel it in my students
1:26when they come to me and ask them why
1:29they're learning communication. They'll
1:30say confidence. They'll say because they
1:32want a promotion. But then on the
1:34journey of learning with me, it
1:35inevitably becomes about connection.
1:38>> Yeah.
1:39>> You hear them start to surface. It's
1:40because I'm lonely.
1:42It's because I feel like I don't have
1:43any deep relationships. Why is that
1:46happening?
1:46>> There's so many reasons. [laughter]
1:49We can start in a lot of different
1:51places. If you look at the statistics,
1:53they're a little bit harrowing. More
1:54people live alone than ever before.
1:57People spend more time alone than ever
1:58before. People fewer friends than ever
2:00before. People are dating less than ever
2:03before.
2:04Uh you can kind of just go on down the
2:05line. And everything, the trend with
2:08everything around this is bad news.
2:11>> So people are physically alone more than
2:13ever. Is there a reason why?
2:15>> One is the obvious one, which is the
2:16screens.
2:17>> Yeah.
2:17>> Right? So it's so much of what used to
2:20get us out of the house, right? You used
2:22to go out of the house to go get
2:24groceries. Now you can get groceries
2:25delivered.
2:26>> Mhm.
2:26>> You used to go out of the house to get a
2:28piano lesson. Now you can get a lesson
2:30online.
2:30>> Mhm.
2:31>> You used to go out of the house to go to
2:32work. Now you can work from home. Right?
2:34So it's if you you go through what
2:36people spend every day of their lives
2:38doing, so much of it can be met either
2:41through an app, through the internet, uh
2:43or through some sort of service uh over
2:45the internet.
2:46>> That's so weird. That almost means as if
2:47it's convenience has caused isolation.
2:50>> Yes. It's It's It's really interesting.
2:53David Brooks talks about this in in his
2:55book, which is great on this topic. He
2:57talks about how a lot of our social life
3:00is actually the product of friction.
3:03>> Huh.
3:03>> And that by optimizing our time for
3:06efficiency, right? It's like we want to
3:08spend less time in traffic. We want to
3:10wait less time for delivery. Uh we want
3:12to You know, we don't want to have to be
3:14bothered to deposit a check. You know,
3:17like you used to go into a bank and used
3:19to talk to a bank teller to to deposit
3:21your your paycheck each week. And so
3:23over time you got to know your bank
3:25teller and you got to know the other
3:26people at the bank and the people in
3:28your neighborhood who went to the bank.
3:29And so there's all of this just kind of
3:31like little micro contact that we had
3:34with the outside world that through the
3:36convenience
3:37created through technology and software
3:40is been removed from our lives. And so
3:42now I mean, when was the last time you
3:43actually stepped foot in a bank? I It's
3:45probably been years for me. Like
3:47>> same with me. I've barely ever been into
3:49one.
3:49>> And then that doesn't even get into the
3:51fact that people are addicted to the
3:53screens.
3:53>> Yeah.
3:54>> Right?
3:55>> I am.
3:55>> Yeah.
3:56>> I feel like I'm always addicted to it.
3:58But just back on what you said before is
3:59that without all of those opportunities
4:02for connection to happen. That's why we
4:04don't practice our communication skills.
4:06It's why so many people want to learn
4:08communication skills because
4:10it's funny because society has created a
4:11situation where we don't have
4:13opportunities to practice.
4:14>> Yeah.
4:14>> And and I think we're not even desiring
4:16it because everything that we do desire,
4:19entertainment, connection, inspiration,
4:21we now all look to the screens for that,
4:23hoping that it will surface through the
4:25algorithm to inspire us. Even
4:27connection.
4:28>> Right. And it's and it's easier. Or it
4:30seems easier. Like it appears easier,
4:33right? So it it is And and it's funny
4:35cuz I run into this all the time now,
4:36too. My my wife and I talk about it
4:38quite a bit where, you know, we'll make
4:39plans with friends, say a week in
4:41advance, and then the actual day comes
4:45and we we're both tired. We just both
4:47just worked all day. Maybe, you know,
4:48there was something stressful that went
4:49on and we're just sitting on the couch
4:51on our phones scrolling and it's just so
4:53comfortable and it's so easy. And in
4:56that moment, you're like,
4:58I really don't want to get up. I really
4:59don't want to go. Like this is just so
5:01satisfying right now. Whereas I when I
5:03think I think you and I are both old
5:04enough that we remember being bored. You
5:07know, it's like we remember I remember
5:09when I was younger like sitting in the
5:10house with nothing to do and being like,
5:13I'm going to call a bunch of people
5:15until I find something to do. And um but
5:18like that doesn't We're never We're
5:20never bored enough to even like feel
5:21that impulse. In fact, we feel the
5:23reverse impulse, which is
5:25I'm tired. I don't want to have to
5:28think. I don't want to have to like put
5:29myself in maybe an awkward social
5:31situation. It's so much easier to just
5:33sit here and scroll on my phone.
5:35>> What year were you born in?
5:36>> I was born in '84.
5:37>> Okay, I'm '86.
5:38>> Okay.
5:39>> So I still remember going to a friend's
5:41house because I couldn't call him
5:43because it cost 25 cents and mom
5:44wouldn't let me [laughter] do that. And
5:45then I would end up going to his house
5:47not knowing whether he was going to be
5:49home or not. And it was this this like
5:51excitement of hopefully his mom will let
5:53him go play.
5:54>> Yeah.
5:54>> And then you'd knock on the door and
5:55sometimes he'd be there, sometimes he
5:56wouldn't.
5:56>> Yeah.
5:57>> You know, so I think you had to be more
5:58creative to get out of your boredom.
6:00Whereas now you barely have to be
6:01creative. You just turn on your phone,
6:03you just open your phone. So I think
6:04creativity has taken a hit to the point
6:07now where when we sit across from
6:08someone is I don't know what to say.
6:10Well, it's because you never practiced
6:11knowing what to say.
6:12>> Yeah. Well, and you just brought up
6:14another reason, kind of a second big
6:17it's almost like it's not that there's
6:18even
6:19individual reasons, there's like
6:20categories of reasons why I think this
6:22is happening. And so the second category
6:24of reason, you just mentioned being a
6:25kid. What we're seeing today is that
6:27parenting is is much more
6:31it's not socially acceptable to just let
6:33your kid walk around outside and go talk
6:35to people. Like parents are a lot more
6:37paranoid, they're judged a lot more if
6:40they leave their children unsupervised.
6:41So kids are playing less, they're going
6:44outside less, they're spending less time
6:45with other children. So they're not
6:47developing those social skills. This is
6:49to your point, they're not developing
6:50those social skills in the first place.
6:52And that confidence to go knock on a
6:54random door or go ring a doorbell.
6:57Uh so then when they grow up and become
6:59an adult, they've never taken many
7:01social risks before and it's and it's
7:03terrifying for them.
7:04>> I think I see that in I I oh I got to
7:07say like an old man now you see that in
7:09[laughter] my my brother's 12 years
7:11younger than me. And when I look at his
7:12generation, I still remember this moment
7:14where it was 2012
7:18where
7:19I was watching him watch somebody else
7:22play a game for the first time. I was
7:24thinking, Norm, what the hell? Why don't
7:26you just buy the game? Let's buy the
7:28game, let's play. He said, no no, I want
7:29to watch this person play. And I think
7:31that was already seeing they they crave
7:33playing with somebody else.
7:34>> Mhm.
7:35>> But without having anybody else to play
7:37with,
7:38the closest thing is watching somebody
7:39else play.
7:40>> Yeah.
7:40>> And that's why the streamers are so
7:42popular because they they speak in a way
7:44that's almost like a parasocial
7:45relationship where they they react and
7:47the best streamers react as if you're in
7:49the room with them. So now you're
7:50getting a sense of connection as if
7:52you're in the room playing together with
7:53somebody else.
7:53>> Yeah.
7:54>> And then now we're at the point where
7:55we're watching somebody watching
7:58somebody else. So it's like another
8:00layer.
8:00>> Right.
8:01>> Which is wild.
8:02>> Yeah.
8:02>> And then now I find myself enjoying that
8:04too.
8:04>> Yeah. I enjoy it. This is this is kind
8:06of related to that experience of sitting
8:08on the couch scrolling my phone. What
8:09I've
8:10also noticed is that in those
8:12situations, in that moment, I'm like,
8:15ah, I really don't want to get up. I
8:16really don't want to go to this dinner.
8:17>> Yeah.
8:18>> tired. I just want to like watch a
8:19movie, chill out, order DoorDash.
8:22Uh, but if I force myself up and I
8:25actually go do hang out with a with a
8:28bunch of friends, nine times out of 10
8:29I'm so glad I did it afterwards and I'm
8:31like, ah, that was great. I should do
8:33this more often. [laughter] Why don't I
8:35do this more often?
8:35>> all say that.
8:38Oh my [gasps] gosh. And then what about
8:39the other categories?
8:40>> I would say the other bucket is there's
8:42a growing distrust in society. So
8:45there's some really sad research. I
8:47think if you go back, you know, a few
8:49decades and you ask people, do you trust
8:52do you think the a random stranger is
8:54trustworthy? A majority This is true in
8:56the United States, but a majority of
8:58people would say yes, something like 70
9:0080% of people would say, yeah, I think a
9:01random a just a person at random on the
9:04street is probably trustworthy. They're
9:05probably a good person.
9:06>> Mm.
9:06>> Today it's something like 30 or 40% say
9:08that. People trust their neighbors less
9:11than ever. I think there's some
9:12statistics around the people who are on
9:15like a first name basis or have the
9:16phone number of the people who live
9:18around them.
9:19A lot of people I mean, I was like this
9:21in New York. I couldn't have tell you a
9:22single person who lived in my building
9:24in New York. I lived there for four
9:25years.
9:26>> And you ride next to each other.
9:27>> I rode the elevator with them. Like it
9:28just you never talk to them and and it's
9:31so transitory and and people are in and
9:34out all the times. Like you never really
9:35develop that relationship. Whereas if
9:37you go back a few generations, like
9:39communities really relied upon each
9:41other, right? You would If you wanted to
9:43have a night out, you would your
9:45neighbors would watch your kids while
9:46you're gone. Um, or if if your kid wants
9:49to go play out in the street
9:51unsupervised, like, you know, you could
9:52ask your neighbor to keep an eye on them
9:54while you, you know, go take a work call
9:56or something like that. So people are
9:58losing that as well. And a lot of it is
10:00just because there's a natural distrust
10:03of strangers in society in general. And
10:06And the irony is that society is safer
10:09than it's ever been today.
10:11Um, there is less violent crime, there's
10:12less kidnappings, there's less you know,
10:15assaults from people that you don't
10:17know.
10:17>> Yeah.
10:18>> Um,
10:19but because people are so exposed to all
10:22the awful things that happen in the
10:23world, they develop kind of this
10:25irrational fear of the person down the
10:27street. And so they
10:29not only do they never make the effort,
10:30but they don't even trust the person
10:32enough to like try to make the effort in
10:33the first place.
10:34>> It's because of all the damn crime
10:35shows. [laughter] My wife loves crime
10:38shows, and then every single time I
10:39watch a crime show with her, the first
10:40time I watched a crime show with her,
10:42security system installed it right
10:44after. Second time, dude, I bought a
10:46German Shepherd.
10:47>> No
10:47>> Well, I think because it's so much of
10:49the stuff that works and goes really
10:51viral is the things based on fear.
10:52>> Absolutely.
10:53>> And I genuinely got scared, and I had to
10:54stop watching these things with her
10:56because it just gave me such a awful
10:58view of the world.
10:59>> Yeah.
11:00>> Where is it's not that bad.
11:02>> Yeah.
11:03>> But it feels like it's so bad, and it's
11:05getting just worse.
11:07>> One of the really Probably to me
11:10personally, the most sad statistic that
11:12I've ever come across in this category
11:14or this topic is they did a survey
11:18probably about 10 years ago. Or they
11:21originally did the survey I think in in
11:22like 1980, probably around the time you
11:24and I were born.
11:25And they said, how many people in your
11:27life would you trust with a personal
11:29secret? And at the time in the '80s, the
11:33most common answer was three. The
11:35average person trusted three people with
11:36a a personal confidential secret.
11:39They ran that survey again about 10
11:41years ago, and the most common answer
11:42was zero.
11:44>> Whoa.
11:45>> Most people said that they did not have
11:47a single person in their life that they
11:48would trust with a personal secret,
11:50which is just like very sad to me.
11:52Cuz like to me that is kind of a metric
11:55of how much how much intimacy you have
11:58or like how many deep relationships you
12:00have, right? Like if you if you can't
12:02trust somebody with a secret, then you
12:03are probably not really close with that
12:06person.
12:06>> What what do you think is the impact of
12:09people not being able to trust anybody?
12:12I mean, far out it like you're you're
12:14lonely, but you're isolated and
12:16>> paranoid.
12:17>> Yeah, yeah, paranoid.
12:18Yeah.
12:19>> You know, so it's there's a lot made
12:21about kind of the mental health crisis,
12:23you know, anxiety all time high,
12:25depression.
12:26>> Mm.
12:26>> Um I think a lot of that is I mean, this
12:30is the thing that this is the thing that
12:32like never really gets talked about um
12:34and is so important about what you do is
12:36that socializing is medicine.
12:38>> Yeah.
12:38>> Right? Like spending time with other
12:40people, laughing together, playing a
12:42game together. We we are evolutionarily
12:45designed to be surrounded by others and
12:48to seek validation and approval and to
12:52share experiences together and and and
12:54share gifts with each other. Like it is
12:56actually very fundamental to our
12:59well-being and our psychology, both our
13:00mental health and our physical health.
13:02>> Yeah. And I feel there's this there's
13:03this there's this danger as well with
13:06the online world is that we create our
13:08own ecosystems that become silos because
13:12my online world probably looks wildly
13:14different to yours, looks wildly
13:15different to some of my team members. So
13:17then we don't have as much in common,
13:18whereas when we were young, we lived in
13:20the same world and that it was the
13:22Simpsons.
13:23>> Yeah, yeah.
13:23>> We talked about the Simpsons. We all
13:24talked about the same show, but now
13:25there's so many shows and then people
13:28get fed different things. So we we're in
13:30a way fully isolated even in the worlds
13:33we live in online.
13:34>> Yeah, we don't have like a shared
13:36>> reality.
13:37>> experience or or yeah. Yeah, it's I
13:39mean, we all listen to the same bands,
13:41we watch the same TV channels. There
13:43there is yeah, there's a lot of value in
13:45that of like a shared culture.
13:47>> First of all, how do how do you get away
13:49from the screens? How have you found
13:51have you found a way to get away from
13:52the screens?
13:53>> I could be better. I think it's to me
13:55it's it's making commitments of time,
13:58right? So it's my wife just signed up
14:00for a pottery class and it's funny
14:03because I mean, she likes it. It's not
14:05you know, it's not life-changing or
14:06anything,
14:07but it's been it's been really cool
14:09because it gets her in the same room
14:11with the same people for 2 hours a week,
14:14week after week after week. And of
14:15course, she's starting to make friends.
14:17Like that's
14:18that's kind of a natural byproduct of
14:19that.
14:20>> Mhm.
14:20>> I find that I have to make a kind of a
14:23conscious commitment beforehand, like
14:25well beforehand, put it on a calendar.
14:27>> Mhm.
14:27>> Otherwise it it doesn't really happen.
14:29Like if if if to me like
14:32the way a friendship dies is like, oh,
14:33we should get together sometime. You
14:35know, it's it's it's just sometime never
14:38happens. Yeah, it has to be like we
14:40should get together next Sunday for
14:42lunch.
14:43>> Mhm.
14:44>> I'll pick a restaurant. You know, like
14:45that's how things end up happening. So
14:47I've had to get very specific with my
14:49commitments.
14:50>> When you do go on those events or you
14:52you do go on those dates, how do you
14:53find is the best way to deepen the
14:55connection?
14:56>> It's a great question. So it's it's
14:58actually really funny. You know, we do I
15:00have a podcast called Solved and we did
15:03we did a whole episode last year on
15:04friendship.
15:05>> Mhm.
15:05>> And it was it was actually really funny
15:08because we went into it expecting there
15:11to be all of this like deep and
15:13complicated research of like how people
15:15relate to each other and how they
15:16connect and how they feel close to one
15:17another.
15:18>> Mhm.
15:18>> And it's funny because if you look at
15:20friendship research, like there are
15:22basically three variables that determine
15:25whether you're going to become friends.
15:26>> Mhm.
15:26>> The first one is proximity.
15:28>> Mhm.
15:29>> How easy is it to access the other
15:31person? You live in Adelaide, I live in
15:33Los Angeles, so it's like even if you
15:35and I really tried, it would there would
15:37be all it would be really hard to see
15:40each other a lot.
15:41>> Probably not going to be friends.
15:42>> Yeah.
15:43Sorry, Ben.
15:43>> [laughter]
15:44>> It's okay, Mark. I understand.
15:46>> [gasps]
15:47>> Um the second one is frequency of
15:49contact.
15:50>> Mhm.
15:50>> And it's actually like it's one of those
15:53like bonehead stupid obvious things, but
15:55it's like the more time you spend with
15:58somebody,
15:58>> Mhm.
15:59>> the more likely you are to become
16:00friends. And then the third one, and
16:01this is a distant third, is having
16:03things in common.
16:04>> Mhm.
16:05>> people get that backwards. They assume
16:07that you have to have a ton of things in
16:08common, and then you can just
16:10periodically see them and you should
16:12become really good friends, but it's
16:13actually completely in reverse. It's
16:16if you just spend a lot of time with
16:18somebody,
16:18>> Yeah.
16:19>> you will naturally start to to develop a
16:21friendship.
16:22>> And and I think you'll be able to
16:23naturally find things in common, right?
16:26Because like you you you play music,
16:29right? I I don't play any music. So then
16:32you can actually have things in common
16:34while on the surface level it doesn't
16:35seem like you have things in common by
16:36just asking more questions and and it's
16:38like well can I ask you why you love
16:41music so much?
16:42>> Oh man, I don't even know how to
16:43describe how to why I love music so
16:45much. Um
16:46>> If you had to try, I mean like what what
16:48what what does it do for you?
16:50>> To me it moves me emotionally. Um I find
16:54like a lot of inspiration and beauty in
16:56it. I also think like I you know we we
17:00were recording some videos earlier and
17:01and I I talked about how like I grew up
17:03in a very kind of emotionally suppressed
17:05environment. You weren't really supposed
17:07to show your feelings and you know if
17:09you were upset you were supposed to kind
17:10of just bury it pretend there's
17:12everything's fine, no problems over
17:14here. Um and so I I think when I was
17:17young I found music to be very
17:19therapeutic and cathartic. Like it gave
17:21me an outlet that was appropriate to
17:23feel those emotions in in my upbringing.
17:26>> And I I think just in one question I was
17:29able to then find something in common
17:30with you because I I though don't don't
17:32play to be able to get those though
17:34those those benefits I'll listen to it
17:36to get those benefits. So I think again
17:38I it's just that simple skill of someone
17:41you love, someone you've just met, if
17:43you have nothing in common at the
17:45surface, ask a bunch of questions why
17:47they love it and you'll find
17:48commonalities as to why you love the
17:50thing.
17:50>> Yeah. The other thing too that that I I
17:53think is important and and probably
17:55needs to be said these days, I find that
17:57people often have unreasonably high
18:00expectations for friendships
18:02>> Mhm.
18:02>> um and romantic relationships as well,
18:04right? Like they kind of expect like
18:06okay if we're going to be friends we
18:07have to like like everything and share
18:09values and have similar opinions and see
18:11each other all like
18:12>> Yeah.
18:13>> sometimes like a golf buddy can just be
18:15a golf buddy. You know like I I have I
18:17have friends I have I have I have
18:18friends that I just surf with.
18:20>> Mhm.
18:20>> I don't know anything. Like, we don't
18:22really have anything else in common, but
18:23I really enjoy surfing with them, you
18:25know? And it's it's that's fine. Like,
18:27it's just nice to have a surf buddy and
18:29just go out and shoot the in the
18:30water and and talk about work or talk
18:34about our wives or whatever and then and
18:36then just go home. And it's like it's
18:38fine. You can have different friends for
18:40different seasons, different purposes,
18:41different levels of depth. All social
18:43connection, I think, is is good at the
18:45end of the day.
18:46>> I I've had that exact same problem. I
18:48used to have friendships that I
18:50overanalyzed and felt like, oh, I can't
18:52go deep with you. Why is that? This is a
18:54problem. But it it's just a friendship
18:55where we play games together. We We
18:57escape the world together. We escape the
18:58stresses of life together. So I think
19:00learning that was really important for
19:01me. Otherwise, I would expect so much
19:03from my romantic relationships, from my
19:05partner. But we just relieved so much of
19:08that as a result.
19:09>> You know what's funny about that too
19:10that I've noticed is over the years some
19:13of those friendships, you know, that I
19:15thought we we were super close and deep
19:17and like very connected and everything,
19:19a lot of those friendships fell apart.
19:22And then in a lot of cases it was the
19:24gaming buddy
19:25>> Mm.
19:25>> that I still talk to 20 years later,
19:27right? Or or the golf buddy that I still
19:30see 15 years later.
19:31>> And it's probably the one you have the
19:32least expectation. And maybe that's why
19:34that lasted the longest because you have
19:37the least expectation.
19:38>> Yeah.
19:38>> Yeah. I mean, do do you find there's any
19:40other any other methods in which you
19:43find you're able to be able to
19:45have deeper connections with the people
19:47you love?
19:48>> I think vulnerability and remaining
19:50nonjudgmental are are two big keys. It's
19:54it's interesting because, you know,
19:56being willing to disclose things about
19:58yourself, it is it I think it's it's
20:01it's useful for the person that you're
20:02trying to connect with because it it
20:04helps helps them get an understanding of
20:06you and find something that they can
20:07relate with. But I It's funny cuz I
20:09actually think it does more for
20:10yourself,
20:11>> Mm.
20:11>> right? It's like the more I share myself
20:13with you, it it it actually makes me
20:16feel more connected to you. Like, it it
20:18kind of works in both directions. And I
20:20think a lot of people miss that. They
20:21think that it's if you're going to share
20:23yourself, it's for the other person's
20:24benefit, but it's 's no, it's actually
20:26it's part of what makes you feel
20:27authentically connected with somebody.
20:29And then I think that non- the
20:30non-judgmental piece is, you know,
20:32unfortunately in in this day and age, I
20:34observe and I have experienced a lot of
20:36people who cut off friendships, cut off
20:39relationships, even cut off like family
20:41relationships for really dumb reasons.
20:44And it it a lot of it's like a just a
20:46difference of opinion, a different, you
20:48know, value or worldview, a different
20:50political opinion. Maybe like, you know,
20:52somebody a a small slight that somebody
20:55took really personally and then they're
20:57just like This is another thing that
20:58kind of concerns me and in this this is
21:00I think where my industry kind of bleeds
21:03into your industry is that
21:05I think a lot of people have taken the
21:06advice that you should have strong
21:08boundaries and and be willing to cut
21:10people off. They've taken it way too
21:12far. And and there's there's a certain
21:15it's reached a point where certain
21:17people have become very unforgiving
21:19of
21:20maybe a friend who made a mistake or a
21:22family member who, you know, believes
21:24something very different than they do.
21:26You know, there's there's something to
21:27being graceful and accepting of someone
21:30even if you don't love every aspect of
21:32them.
21:33>> One one of the one of the examples that
21:34comes to mind when you say that is for
21:36me and my parents, when I wanted to
21:38leave accounting and law and go into
21:40magic, when I share that story, people
21:42think that happened in a conversation.
21:44It happened over three years. It
21:46[laughter] has to happen over three
21:47years, but I I think one of the most
21:48beautiful moments was I would always
21:51show up at the conversations we'd have
21:52and I wasn't arguing out of being
21:55disobedient, disrespectful, but I wanted
21:57my mom and dad to go on the journey with
21:59me. I didn't want to I didn't want them
22:00isolated from my world and not
22:02understand my world. I love my parents
22:03heaps. So one of the most beautiful
22:06moments of not giving up on my parents
22:08was my dad coming up to me and saying,
22:10you know, thanks for not giving up on
22:11me, son.
22:12You know, and and and then he was able
22:14to join me at the magic gigs and realize
22:17that I got paid 1,500 bucks for like 30
22:19minutes of doing magic. And my dad was
22:20like, What the hell they pay you that
22:21much, man? What the hell? So it was
22:23[laughter] it was just crazy how he had
22:26the same astonishing moment that I had
22:28and my dad got to share upon that.
22:29Whereas I've got friends who the very
22:31moment mom and dad doesn't back him,
22:33>> Yeah.
22:34>> Oh, screw you, stuff that. I'm going to
22:35go find my people who are going to back
22:37me. And I just it's such a shame.
22:39>> Yeah.
22:39>> You know, we we sever things too quickly
22:41because we have gone too far
22:43>> Mhm.
22:43>> with that piece of advice.
22:45>> Yeah, and I think it's short-sighted. I
22:47I've had obviously not that exact same
22:49situation, but I've I've had I've I've
22:51had struggles with my parents um
22:54in the past. Like early on in my career,
22:56I mean nobody knew what a blog was. Like
22:58you know, and it's I remember I had
23:00friends in college like this I'm talking
23:02this is like 2008 2009. You know, the
23:04idea that you were making money through
23:06a website online like it was people
23:08thought I was dealing drugs. Like that
23:10that is basically what it came down to.
23:11They were like, you do what?
23:13>> Yeah.
23:13>> A blog what's a blog? Like okay, you
23:16went to Argentina okay, you're dealing
23:17drugs clearly. And my parents for a
23:19while were were part of that. And I
23:21remember having a number of arguments
23:23and fights with my dad and stepmom, you
23:25know, and they're they're like you need
23:26to get a job, you need to grow up, you
23:28know, this things it's never going to
23:29work.
23:29>> Mhm.
23:30>> You it's childish, you know, you you
23:32don't know what you're doing. And I
23:34think one of the things, you know, you
23:36and I are about the same age as we've
23:37established. I think one of the things
23:39once you kind of get in the middle age,
23:40you realize that relationships go
23:42through seasons. And there are periods,
23:46years or decades where you feel really
23:48aligned and close with somebody and then
23:50there are years and decades where you
23:51kind of like get a little bit misaligned
23:53or you drift apart a little bit or
23:54there's a little bit of friction. And I
23:57think when I was younger, I
24:00there there's a propensity for us to
24:01catastrophize those sorts of things for
24:03like oh my god, you know, dad's never
24:04[clears throat] going to understand and
24:06this is never going to work. But as as
24:08you get older, you realize that like
24:09people drift in and out in in certain in
24:12certain seasons in certain ways and and
24:13this is something I've noticed with a
24:15couple childhood friends now as well.
24:16Like I I have an old childhood friend
24:18who
24:19you know, we went probably five or six
24:21years without really seeing each other
24:22and then
24:23we recently reconnected and it's just
24:25it's really nice. Like it's the
24:27friendship's still there and we kind of
24:29catch up on a bunch of stuff and
24:31um and it it's
24:33it's like it's not that anything's
24:34wrong. Like it just
24:36you just have to make space for it.
24:37>> And I I I love what you said about the
24:39vulnerability is that when sometimes you
24:40don't meet up with friends on a regular
24:42basis, sometimes it's hard to do that.
24:44So when then they ask you how's things
24:45how things going, it's so easy to share
24:47the highlights
24:47>> Yeah.
24:48>> and then never share anything
24:49vulnerable.
24:50>> Right.
24:50>> Right? So I think it's it's it's if you
24:52want other people to be vulnerable with
24:53you,
24:54I think really the message there is you
24:55got to go first.
24:56>> Yes.
24:57>> You have to go first. And when you go
24:59first, you create permission for the
25:01other person to go. And that's what I
25:02found with my friends is that I wanted
25:04something, but I wasn't willing to give
25:05it.
25:06>> Yep.
25:06>> It was only until I learned to give that
25:08vulnerability did they say, hey man,
25:09like me too.
25:10>> Yeah.
25:10>> I feel bad we haven't caught up in a
25:11long time.
25:12>> Yeah.
25:12>> You know, so I think that's that's
25:13that's beautiful. And what about with
25:15with new people? What are the thoughts
25:17that come to your mind? What are the the
25:19ways in which you do that?
25:20>> I guess one of the things that I've
25:21learned I had an interesting experience.
25:24You know, I lived in New York for seven
25:26or eight years. I moved out here to LA
25:28about four years ago. And and it was
25:29interesting. It was moving to LA was
25:31kind of the first time in my life that I
25:32actually struggled to make friends.
25:34>> Mhm.
25:34>> um and it kind of threw me off a little
25:36bit. Like it was very unexpected because
25:38it was I hadn't really had that issue
25:40before. I think some of it is middle
25:42age. Some of it was I stopped drinking.
25:45[laughter]
25:46So you know, [gasps]
25:47the social lubricant was no longer
25:49there.
25:49>> Wow.
25:50>> um but it was interesting like I
25:53So there there's some recency bias to
25:55what I'm about to say, but one of the
25:57things I have learned the hard way over
25:59the past couple years is that you can't
26:01force things.
26:02>> Yeah.
26:03>> I think there were there were a number
26:04of people that I met out here that it
26:06was kind of like on paper it felt like
26:08they should be friends.
26:10>> Mhm.
26:10>> And I kept making the effort and making
26:12the effort and and and trying to do
26:14things with them and share things and
26:16and it just always kind of felt like
26:19blah. Like it just never
26:20>> Felt forced.
26:21>> Yeah, it it it never felt like it always
26:23felt like it was on the cusp of going
26:25somewhere, but it never really went
26:26anywhere. And ironically,
26:28um especially because this shit's in my
26:30book, As soon as I stopped trying,
26:32>> yeah, it worked.
26:33>> it worked.
26:34>> Mm.
26:35>> And it was as soon as I just kind of
26:37showed up with no expectations. Like,
26:39all right, whatever. Like, I'll talk
26:41about whatever. It's fine.
26:42>> Yeah.
26:43>> Um I actually started connecting and
26:46>> Why Why did it look good on paper and
26:47then What What did you mean by that?
26:49>> Uh I mean it's I don't know. It's
26:51>> the same industry. We do the same thing.
26:53>> like they're an entrepreneur. They're a
26:55founder of this. They work in this
26:56industry. They're friends with this
26:58person. They've got the same hobby. You
26:59know, so it's like, oh my god, we should
27:00totally be friends. But it's funny cuz
27:02it's, you know, there is a chemistry
27:04piece of it and a in a personality piece
27:07of it that like, yeah, there's some
27:08people that you just don't click with
27:10and that's fine. And um and then there's
27:12some people that you click with
27:13immediately and but it's like you can't
27:16conjure that out of nothing. Like, it's
27:18it's if it's there, it's great. You can
27:20kind of lean into it. But
27:21>> Yeah. In in the Vietnamese culture, we
27:23have a word called du ing, d u y e n,
27:26which is when there's enough of it, it
27:28will blossom. And if there's not enough
27:29of it, then you can let it go.
27:30>> Yeah.
27:31>> You know, so we often say there wasn't
27:32enough du ing there. And that's okay. I
27:34think when you try to force and force
27:36the du ing, it doesn't work.
27:37>> Yeah.
27:37>> So, Mark, what's what's one key thing if
27:39if someone had to do something today
27:40>> Mm.
27:41>> to be more connected with the people
27:43they love and the people they serve and
27:44the people they're surrounded by, what's
27:46one thing they could do?
27:47>> I would say create a plan to put the
27:49screen away. Like, create a commitment
27:50on your calendar, whether it's joining a
27:52class or or putting yourself in a
27:53situation.
27:54>> Mm.
27:55>> And I would say I would say prioritize
27:56the frequency of exposure to people um
27:59necessarily over the quality. I think
28:01people people put way too much
28:03expectation. They feel like they need to
28:04like find the perfect friend or or the
28:06the person who's doing all the same
28:07things that they're doing and it's it's
28:09actually more valuable to just put
28:11yourself in the same environment around
28:13the same people enough times and then
28:16friendships will naturally start to
28:17evolve.
28:18>> I'm going to take that piece of advice
28:20straight away because my wife and I have
28:21been thinking about doing a ring making
28:22class, but I've been judging it based on
28:24it doesn't look that good. It doesn't
28:26[laughter] look like it's a really good
28:27class. I don't know. I've watched some
28:28of the reviews aren't good. So, I think
28:29I think you just got to commit to it and
28:31then just go do it
28:32>> Yeah.
28:32>> because it's frequency over quality.
28:34>> And the funny thing is, it's like
28:36you will probably your enjoyment of that
28:39class will be 90% the other people in it
28:41or the teachers in it, and it'll be 10%
28:43the actual rings.
28:44>> Yeah, the actual rings that you actually
28:45make cuz it'll be anyway, right?
28:46Yeah.
28:47>> [laughter]
28:48>> What about you? What what would you say
28:49is like
28:50the biggest takeaway?
28:51>> I think it's curiosity.
28:52>> Okay.
28:53>> Because now when people are curious, if
28:54you're curious about how many people
28:55live in America, like the curiosity for
28:58that lasts 10 seconds cuz you you just
29:00Google it and you find it out. Whereas
29:02when you're young, if you're curious
29:03about how many people live in America,
29:04you got to hold on to that question and
29:06hold on to that curiosity for the next
29:07week so that you can visit the library
29:09and look in the encyclopedia.
29:10>> Yeah.
29:10>> So then our curiosity muscle now is is
29:12like next to nothing.
29:14>> Mhm.
29:14>> Right? It's you you you have all access
29:16to all the knowledge in the world, but
29:17you don't even
29:19you aren't curious anymore.
29:20>> You know what I love about that? Is that
29:22it's impossible to be curious and
29:24judgmental at the same time.
29:25>> Oh, that's wild. I love that. You stole
29:27what I was I wasn't going to say it, but
29:29that sounds great. [laughter] I love
29:30that.
29:31>> It sounds what you wish you said.
29:32>> Yeah, it's what I wish I said. But for
29:34me, it's it's it's curiosity and I love
29:35the byproduct of this. You you you're
29:37not judgmental. And then just be
29:38curious. So in your very next
29:40conversation, when you're listening to
29:41somebody speak, don't make it about you.
29:44>> Yeah.
29:44>> Just be really curious about them and
29:46then something beautiful happens. When
29:47you're curious for long enough, it
29:49builds reciprocity. And they'll be
29:51curious about you. So I think if you you
29:54desire connection so much and you're
29:55thinking to yourself, oh, why doesn't
29:56anybody connect with me? Why doesn't
29:58nobody speak deeply with me? Go do that
30:00for somebody else first.
30:00>> Yeah.
30:01>> And you'll just watch it happen in in
30:03reverse.
30:04>> Nice.
30:05>> So I think just in the next
30:06conversation, be super curious. Ask
30:08three to five questions and watch what
30:09happens.
30:10>> [music]
30:10>> Amazing.
30:11>> If you enjoyed this video, there is
30:12another video that Mark and I made about
30:15how to be a top communicator, which is
30:17available on his channel right now. So
30:18head over there, subscribe to Mark, and
30:20go check it out.

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