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"Why Is It So Hard to Get Good at Anything?" | 1 Hour — Transcript

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0:00Why is it so hard for people to compound
0:02their skills?
0:04[sighs]
0:09>> So compounding skills, I'm trying to
0:11think of how I clearly define it for for
0:13the audience. Um
0:16I would probably say it's when multiple
0:18skills when used together uh create an
0:20outized outcome compared to either of
0:22the skills used independently just so we
0:24have a basis for talking. Um, but beyond
0:28that, um, I think I think part of the
0:32difficulty is that you do not know what
0:33you're going to yield and and the
0:36perspective change that's going to occur
0:38after you have a new skill that you
0:39don't have yet. And so it's like if you
0:41understand accounting and then you learn
0:42e-commerce, it's like, oh, this makes
0:45like you you don't know what you're
0:47going to know. It's a very unknown
0:48unknown, right? Similar similar context
0:51we were talking about earlier. Um and so
0:53that's in terms of like why do I think
0:55it's difficult people to imagine the
0:57upside potential of having um multiple
0:59skills that stack together. I give this
1:01example all the time but like you think
1:03about like Jay-Z, right?
1:04>> Yeah.
1:05>> So in the beginning he might have had a
1:06base level of like call it rhythm. Um
1:08that was like his what maybe he was
1:10naturally inclined that way. Um and then
1:13he started developing you know beats and
1:15that was a skill that he you know
1:16figured out and then he started you know
1:18rapping. Um, and then that became a
1:20skill. Um, and then from there he
1:21learned how to uh promote. And it's
1:24like, okay, that's that's a much more
1:25valuable, you know, he if he only knew
1:27how to promote and uh didn't have rap,
1:30like he would it wouldn't been nearly as
1:31valuable of a skill, but having both
1:33makes him super successful rapper. But
1:36then after that, it's like, okay, well
1:37then he had to learn how to recruit
1:39other uh artists and musicians. And so
1:42it's like, okay, well, recruiting is a
1:44different skill than promoting, you
1:45know, publicly. And doing deals is
1:47another skill. And so all of a sudden
1:49it's like these skills when stacked
1:50together become a label, right? And then
1:52that becomes the next thing that he's
1:54able to do. But a lot of times like you
1:56can only you can only uh and this is
1:58Steve Jobs, but you can only connect the
1:59dots in reverse. And I think the one
2:01thing that I would say is consistent
2:02among the people that I that I frequent
2:04who are hyper successful is that they're
2:06just intensely curious about things in
2:07general. And so I'll see um somebody
2:11who's a billionaire have a conversation
2:13with somebody who makes I'm just I'm
2:16only using money here as a you know to
2:18to show the stark contrast, but you know
2:20somebody makes $80,000 a year, you know,
2:22fixing lights, whatever. And they'll
2:24find a way to extract information from
2:27this person and be like, "So how does
2:28that work? So tell me more about that."
2:31Um and they'll still be able to at the
2:33end of that conversation be better off
2:35than they were prior. And I think
2:37they're kind of blood hounds for for
2:38knowledge.
2:39>> Um, and I'd say that that is that is
2:41probably like just something that I have
2:43witnessed. But like why is it so
2:44difficult for people to to do
2:46compounding? There's the obvious answer
2:47which is patience. And the other is that
2:49they don't understand the upside.
2:52>> How do you balance compounding of skills
2:54with becoming a master in one skill?
2:58>> It's really good. Well, you know, um I
3:01would say that the difference between
3:02those two things um is really just comes
3:05down to how narrowly we define the
3:07domain. So it's like let's say you want
3:09to be a quote master at business. It's
3:11like well there's so many skills there.
3:13It's like you got marketing, you got
3:14sales, you got recruiting, you got
3:14finance, you got like there's so many
3:16things
3:16>> compounding becomes part of the master.
3:17>> Yeah. It's like so which Yeah. So where
3:20where where is the the skill
3:25versus going, you know, super deep on
3:26biotech right now in the world of
3:28biotech? Um and going deep on anything,
3:30it feels like you're still like the
3:32deeper you go in something, the more you
3:33feel like you don't know anything.
3:35>> Um and I certainly feel that way
3:37constantly.
3:38>> Curse of ignorance, the curse of
3:39knowledge. I I was like, I I have this
3:41uh we have this big marketing that's
3:42going to that's going to why my my next
3:44book is going to come out and I have
3:45some some big plans for it and I think
3:48it's going to do big stuff. Um and I was
3:50already like playing out like what I
3:52thought I'd be able to say afterwards,
3:53which is like this is my letter to the
3:54internet. I still don't understand
3:56marketing that well. Like I just feel
3:58like there's so much that I honestly
4:00have no idea about.
4:01>> Is it because you don't understand the
4:02details or are you still missing some of
4:04the bigger picture areas?
4:05>> I think it's just like there's so many
4:06things. It just like when I think about
4:08what has gotten me success with
4:10marketing has been like there's probably
4:13maybe like 15 rules that I pretty much
4:15follow and the rest is just like let's
4:18like the amount of times that I've been
4:19like this is going to be a winner and it
4:21bombs and something that we do in 5
4:24seconds as like a last second thought
4:26ends up being the [snorts] the home run
4:28advertisement or you know an email that
4:30just crushes compared to another one. I
4:32just I have I I have been I've been
4:35wrong so many times that I have like
4:38zero ego when it comes to marketing.
4:39[laughter]
4:40>> It's interesting because a lot of people
4:42will discount and say that's just
4:43probabilistic, but it isn't. When you
4:45put out a new video,
4:47>> Yeah.
4:48>> hundreds of thousands of people are
4:49telling you this is a 5.2% clickthrough
4:51versus 7.2. It it is not probabilistic.
4:54It's just the wrong answer.
4:55>> Yeah.
4:56>> Meaning there's some kind of ignorance
4:58debt there.
4:59>> Totally. How could how could there be an
5:01ignorance debt after you've done
5:02something so many times?
5:03>> That's what drives me drives me nuts.
5:06But like so to to this point though,
5:08it's like um so I see prediction and
5:11control as the same thing equals equal
5:14opposites at the same point. Like if you
5:15can if you could predict something with
5:16absolute certainty provided you have
5:18influence over the variables, then you
5:19can control the outcome, right? And I
5:21see that as like intensely cool. Um, but
5:27like for a let's say a sales
5:29conversation, right? If we have one
5:31person here, I do believe that there is
5:33something that could occur that would
5:34create a 100% closed rate process. The
5:37problem is it just might not be worth
5:39creating that process because some
5:40people might have to go back to their
5:42childhood and re-educate them on, you
5:44know, elementary math in order to get
5:45them to understand this concept or
5:46whatever it is, right? So, there's a
5:48certain amount of education that has to
5:49occur in order to get someone to change
5:50their behavior or at least the way that
5:51we want. I'm going to loop this back to
5:52the the marketing thing. Um but I see
5:56like sales is just increasing the
5:57likelihood that somebody purchases right
6:00within a conversation.
6:01>> And so marketing serves more or less the
6:03same function just done one to many. The
6:05amount of variables that exist in
6:07marketing
6:08>> I don't think anyone has even come close
6:10I mean maybe I AI will but like human
6:12beings like I don't think any any humans
6:14have come close to quantifying every
6:16single variable that exists. And so we
6:18can say here's 15 things that I know
6:22always work like fast will pretty much
6:25always beat slow.
6:26>> So you can control like 70% of the of
6:29the probability and then there's 30%
6:30>> varian that's ex exactly. So it perfect.
6:32You you you got to exactly where I was
6:34going, which is like it's if there's a
6:36thousand variables, it's like maybe the
6:38the 15 that we know that are the chunky
6:40ones, it's like maybe that gets us 60%
6:42of the way and then we still roll the
6:43dice and it's just our downside's
6:44truncated.
6:46And I think it's just over time you just
6:48continue to move up the median. Um at
6:50least from a concept from an organic
6:52content marketing perspective, but the
6:53same thing, you know, same thing with
6:54with paid ads, just different different
6:56beast. said another way, in the land of
6:59the blind, the oneeyed uh man is king.
7:01So you are the oneeyed man.
7:02>> Yeah. [laughter]
7:03Just willing to take
7:04>> which is a high compliment.
7:05>> Yeah. Yeah. Honored.
7:07>> So there's compounding of skills.
7:09There's also the compounding that occurs
7:11to somebody that sticks to a domain.
7:14>> Yeah.
7:14>> Why do people systematically
7:16underestimate that? And why can't people
7:18stick with one thing for many years?
7:20>> Man,
7:22these are these are all hard hitters. So
7:25I think that um luck surface area is
7:28something that uh it's a very you know
7:30catchy term but basically uh if you have
7:33if you have if you think about
7:38I'm going to draw little analogy and I
7:40think it'll it'll make sense but like if
7:41you think about intelligence as accuracy
7:45and determination as the number of shots
7:48you take uh as you're shooting a target
7:51then
7:53it's great to be intelligent.
7:55But if I had to pick between unlimited
7:57shots and perfect aim, I would rather
7:59have unlimited shots, [laughter]
8:01>> right? And so the idea of the luck
8:03surface area there is like if we're
8:04shooting at least in this d like this
8:06general d eventually one of my my arrows
8:08is going to hit the target and and on a
8:09long enough time horizon one of them hit
8:10the bullseye. And so the advantage of
8:13sticking with things is that you tip
8:18luck in your favor. You just are around
8:21for more things to occur. and by
8:24basically the same concept of of this
8:26there's a certain level of variability
8:28um that's going to always occur just
8:30within business chance whatever but if
8:32we're there the whole time it's like we
8:33give we give luck time to happen
8:37>> rather than like if if you try to quote
8:40time things it's like you're you almost
8:41never get it um but if you're there the
8:43whole time then luck occurs and so and
8:46those those lucky breaks are the ones
8:48that typically like define people's
8:49careers um it's just you just don't know
8:51when it happens I And Oggovie talked
8:53about this all the time where he said
8:54like um you know I've wasted uh you know
8:5690% of my advertising dollars. He's like
8:58I just don't know which ones right like
9:00to say it's like the vast majority of
9:02the things that we do in our careers are
9:03not going to actually make a meaningful
9:04difference and then a very small
9:06percentage make all the difference in
9:07the world. You just don't know which one
9:08it's going to be which means that you
9:09just want to maximize the likelihood
9:11that it occurs.
9:12>> But in business
9:14>> you internalize once you get a hit you
9:16internalize there. You're like, "Oh, I
9:18said this line in the sales script. Now
9:20I could scale it across all my sales
9:22people." Totally.
9:23>> You do know in this in most cases of
9:26business, it just you don't know when
9:27your next knowing is going to come.
9:29>> Yeah. The next big breakthrough. And I
9:31think that's like kind of that that
9:32truncated downside risk. It's like um I
9:35used to say this a lot, but like the
9:36bottom floor of the building of your
9:38opportunities continues to get higher.
9:40So, like when I
9:41>> when I quit my job when I was in my
9:43early 20s, my plan B if my gym didn't
9:46work was going to be I was going to
9:47drive Uber and strip.
9:49>> Yeah.
9:49>> Um and so that's a pretty, you know,
9:51that's that was kind of a baseline, you
9:53know, floor of the building. Once I
9:54learned how to sell, I was like, "Okay,
9:56well, the absolute worst case scenario
9:58here is I can keep my clothes on and I
10:00don't have to work, you know, 18 hours
10:01or I probably still work 18 hours, but
10:03now I can sell cars, right? I can sell
10:04something that's like high high
10:05velocity. I could I could probably make
10:07$400 $500,000 a year just being top top
10:09car salesman. Okay, so that's now my
10:11baseline. And then once I learned how to
10:13advertise and get leads, then it was
10:14like, oh, okay, multiple millions of
10:16dollars a year is kind of like the
10:17baseline. It doesn't really matter what
10:18place I'm going. If you know how to
10:19market, you know how to sell, you can
10:21drive business. You're a rain maker
10:22fundamentally. And so it so like the
10:25bottom floor of that building. Um
10:26because like when people are like, you
10:28know, if you lost all of your reputation
10:29and all these things and you had no
10:31money, like what would you do? I'm like,
10:33I've had that happen twice and I'll tell
10:34you what I did. Like I don't have to do
10:35as a hypothetical. I'll tell you exactly
10:36what I [laughter] did, right? Like I
10:37went to a business owner and I said,
10:38"Hey, I'll bring you business. Let me
10:41keep whatever I kill and then you get
10:43customers for free." And most business
10:45owners say, "Sure, zero c sounds good."
10:47And then that's it. And I've done that.
10:49I've [laughter] done that's what I did
10:50both times. And I was able to just
10:52restart and generate cash quickly. Um
10:55and that was a few years into my career.
10:57Um that was after I already had the
10:58marketing hat. Uh so I didn't have to go
11:00back to, you know, doing car sales or
11:02something like that. So,
11:04>> I've heard you use this analogy of
11:05levels. Once you learn how to pass and
11:07beat the level one boss and the level
11:09two boss, you could quickly get to that
11:11level three and then you start from
11:13there.
11:13>> Yeah, it's tough because um I think to
11:17circle back to the question you had
11:18earlier about why do people struggle
11:20with this? And I think it's because you
11:22get it's it feels good to win, right?
11:25And and losing sucks. And so if you know
11:28how to beat level one, two, three, and
11:30you get stuck on level four, there's a
11:32big part of you that after a sustained
11:34period of time of not beating level
11:35four, you're like, you know what, I'm
11:36just going to start a new character and
11:38I'm going to play the game slightly
11:40differently this time. And you and then
11:42the thing is is you have a rapid
11:43feedback loop of things going well
11:44because you're probably better. And you
11:47go you breeze through one, two, and
11:48three again, but then you hit four and
11:49then you're still there. But now four is
11:50hard because you're still battling level
11:52four on the other one typically because
11:54you us because most people don't
11:55completely stop doing one thing. They
11:57try to chase too many. If I said I want
12:00to get good at foul shots. All right. So
12:03foul shots probably have different parts
12:05associated with it. There's probably
12:06going to be I have to measure the
12:08distance and I could probably say what
12:09percentage of my shots did I hit within
12:12the box. Okay. What percentage of the
12:13shots did I get within the hoop? What
12:15percentage of them did I get in
12:16altogether? Right? Um, and then within
12:19that I could probably say, "How many
12:21times did I finish my follow-through?"
12:22And like, I don't know anything about
12:23basketball, but I would be like, "Okay,
12:26am I finishing above my head?" Because
12:28that's where I want the followrough to
12:29be. And where is my shoulder position?
12:31Am I twisted? Am I straight up? Am I
12:33squared with the basket? How many times
12:34did I do this? And so, you might hear
12:36this and be like, "Wow, this sounds
12:37overly complex." It's like, well,
12:38welcome to winning, right? We have to
12:41break things down. And you have to think
12:43about yourself in some ways like a child
12:45because our ability to learn gets worse
12:47over time right we are less plastic but
12:49our skill at learning so rather our
12:52horsepower at learning is worse but our
12:53skills at learning can get better all
12:54right so how how do we how do we
12:56reconcile this if our skills get better
12:59then it means that we are better at at
13:01at being specific about the thing that
13:03we need to change
13:06right and if you are not specific about
13:08those things you will wander for a long
13:09time why you were not getting good so
13:11you have to quantify to the highest
13:12degree possible. And to be clear, you'll
13:15start quantifying things in the
13:16beginning and then you'll get better at
13:17describing them. But if you do not
13:19track, you do not care period on
13:22anything. In any skill worth learning,
13:24if you aren't tracking it, you already
13:27demonstrate that you don't care. What
13:29when you think about a good writer or a
13:31great writer, an unstoppable writer,
13:33what comes to mind and what separates
13:36the amazing writers versus everyone else
13:38other than the work? saying the work
13:40people do thousand put 2,000 hours into
13:43a book. What
13:44>> sure
13:45>> makes for an unstoppable incredible
13:47writer?
13:48>> I don't think there is something else.
13:53>> I I I'll qualify this which is that the
13:55work needs feedback.
13:58>> So you gain proficiency with expert eyes
14:01giving you feedback on the work you do.
14:03Because if I I'll give you the content
14:05example. If I post a short every day for
14:07for 10 years and I don't change what I'm
14:09doing and I just post the same thing, I
14:12might not make any progress. And I know
14:13people who've been doing who've done
14:15made content for 10 years and they have
14:16the same size following, right? Because
14:18they don't learn, they don't improve.
14:20Like
14:21>> I'm going to rewind real quick on this
14:22is that
14:25the work is required for you, not for
14:28the output. Somebody who naturally gets
14:32it on the first try, who really just
14:34understands it. And this is an easy
14:35example. If if if if Mr. Beast's account
14:39got cancelled tomorrow,
14:41he can start another one and get it to
14:43millions and millions of dollars because
14:45he has the skill. And so it's not that
14:47the output requires him to go work for
14:49five years in order to build the
14:51following. His skill required him to
14:53work for five years to get the skill,
14:55but then the output does the work after
14:57that. And so like the the time delay
15:00that people talk about like myself
15:01included when I'm trying like this is
15:02where nuance of advice comes in, right?
15:04Where it's like I tell people, hey, I
15:06want you to do 100 reps every day. I
15:08don't want you to do the same 100 reps
15:09every day. I want you to get better with
15:11all the reps. And if you haven't looked
15:13at the end of the day and said, "What
15:14could I do better? How could I improve?"
15:16And if you don't have somebody on the
15:17outside eyes being like, "Hey, you
15:18stumbled here on this call." Or, "Hey,
15:19when they said this, let's drill this.
15:21Let's let's do this a couple times."
15:23That's how you get better, right? Right?
15:24So, you have to be willing to do the
15:26work and get the feedback to improve.
15:28Like the works on you more than you work
15:30on it. And I think that's the piece that
15:33people miss. Like my prescription like
15:35of doctor money um of of working is for
15:39the for the person's skills, not because
15:41I care about the fact that you made
15:4210,000 phone calls. I care about the
15:45fact that you got the rich buy time, the
15:47poor buy stuff, ambitious people buy
15:50skills, and lazy people buy
15:52distractions. [music] As much as these
15:54seem like four different groups, it's
15:56really like you have these [music]
15:57pairings. Rich people use money to buy
16:00time. Ambitious people use time to buy
16:03skills. And the reason it's ambitious
16:05people is because generational wealth
16:07isn't transferred through assets. It's
16:09not transferred through stuff. It's
16:11transferred through education. [music]
16:12It's transferred through skills. And so
16:14there's this Sanskrit proverb that I
16:16love. If you have a good son, you don't
16:18need [music] to accumulate wealth. If
16:20you have a bad son, there's no point in
16:22accumulating wealth. And so the idea
16:23that you're going to pass on your wealth
16:26to a child who doesn't have the skills
16:28makes it irrelevant because
16:29fundamentally either it is a good son
16:32who has skills and then if the son has
16:34skills then whether you transfer the
16:36wealth or not makes the wealth itself
16:38irrelevant. And I find that there's so
16:40many things that are like this in wealth
16:41creation that you don't understand until
16:42you're on the other side of it because
16:44the answers that you're looking for are
16:46not in your newsfeed. They are not in
16:48the distraction. And so the vast
16:50majority of lazy people that I have
16:52encountered continue to distract
16:54themselves because the difficulty of
16:57looking at themselves in the mirror and
16:58saying I am inadequate is too painful.
17:01And so instead they would rather watch
17:03fluff videos on the internet that make
17:05them feel good and tickle their ears
17:08rather than confront reality that they
17:11are just not good enough. And so they
17:12consume the stuff that's like I am
17:14worthy. I deserve these things. In other
17:16words, entitled to them, which by the
17:19way, if you feel entitled to something,
17:20then when you get it, you are never
17:22grateful because you thought you
17:23deserved it to begin with. We know that
17:25gratitude, for example, is something
17:26that increases your subjective
17:28well-being in life, which is that you
17:29enjoy life more when you are grateful
17:31for what you get. Which means that you
17:32have to, by very definition, expect
17:35nothing, which means you're entitled to
17:37nothing, which means that you deserve
17:39nothing. In reality, you are worthy only
17:41of the things that you currently have
17:43because you have already got them. You
17:44have proven that you can work a minimum
17:46wage job, so you are worthy of the
17:48compensation of minimum wage. And as
17:50much as this is painful, and I'm sure
17:51this will get clipped a hundred times to
17:53show me as some evil rich guy, I'm
17:54willing to take that hate for the few
17:56people who will hear this message, and
17:58decide to change the way they act. You
18:00can be ambitious and distracted, which
18:03keeps you poor. When I started out at my
18:05peak, I had nine businesses because I
18:08heard seven income streams make you
18:10wealthy, but it doesn't. Seven income
18:12streams just spread you seven ways. And
18:14I had nine. I was like, "Well, seven
18:15good. Nine must be better." To give you
18:17context, I had a chiropractor agency. I
18:18had a dental agency. I had a gym
18:20turnaround business. And then I had at
18:22the time six location. So there's nine
18:23where it is. Boom. And I had partners in
18:26each of these businesses. I was still
18:28the one who was required to rain,
18:31meaning I was the one who was required
18:32to sell customers into all nine. If you
18:34are required to work inside of the
18:36business, then you can only really do
18:38one job. And so when people hear that
18:39someone has seven income streams, it's
18:42because they own assets that generate
18:43that kind of income. But in order to
18:45gain the cash to then buy the assets
18:48that create the cash flow, it requires
18:50time and focus. Let me make focus real
18:52for you. Focus is a very amorphous term.
18:54Focus is measured by the amount of
18:56things you say no to. And inversely, you
18:59could measure it by how few things you
19:01say yes to. Meaning the most focused
19:03person says only yes to one thing. Some
19:06of you guys may have seen the interview
19:07that I did with Amjod and Replet, the
19:09CEO, uh the founder of Replet. We talk
19:11about how learning works.
19:14AI has to get trained on data. We have
19:16to clean data and say good, bad, good,
19:18bad, good, bad over and over again. Once
19:20AI can learn in the real world, the
19:23feedback loops are significantly faster.
19:25And so it's first party data. It's it
19:27drove in the road here and then all of a
19:28sudden someone honked and it got
19:30feedback and it went back in the lane,
19:31right? And so at a certain point you'll
19:33stop relying as much on modeling all the
19:38people who are doing better than you at
19:40the thing. And then you will start to do
19:42a tremendous amount of volume. And then
19:44from your volume you will look at your
19:47so let's say this is the volume we did.
19:49This is all of our reps and we say okay
19:52what made these different from all
19:56these?
19:57What is the difference? Now there is for
20:00sure a difference because these are the
20:01top 10%. You might only be able to
20:03identify one or two differences. So you
20:06will take the things that you find
20:07different and then you will do another
20:10set of many repetitions where you'll do
20:13this and then you'll have a top 10%
20:15again. And on here
20:19you'll get another inference of why
20:21that's the top 10%. And then oh but wait
20:24there's more. We will then go
20:28taking all those inferences
20:32and then we have our top 10% again. And
20:34here
20:35you get the idea. Your idea and
20:38observation density will increase like
20:40coats of paint. Every time you go over
20:42it, you will learn one more thing. But I
20:45would say that the key to learning is
20:46observation. Once you ha once you can
20:49observe the differences between current
20:52and ideal and this is honestly the gap
20:55people like I get the compliment often
20:57that Alex breaks things down in such a
20:59simple way. It's it's really just
21:02looking at the world through the lens of
21:03analysis of observation and saying what
21:06is different about these things and
21:08looking at it almost as an autist where
21:10there is no meaning behind anything just
21:12simply this person extended his hand
21:15that person extended their hand this
21:17person nods when that person talks when
21:20that person stops talking this person
21:22doesn't nod why doesn't this person nod
21:24when that person's talking oh okay
21:26people determine that this person has
21:28more influence the person who nods when
21:30the other person is talking. Okay, if I
21:32want more influence when other people
21:33talk, I should nod and then occasionally
21:35interject. Yeah, sounds good. That's
21:37interesting. Go on, tell me more about
21:38that. Okay, great. So then I could start
21:40observing that. What else does this
21:42person do? This person when he asks for
21:44things takes a step back. This person
21:46doesn't. Okay, so when I ask for things,
21:48if I want to increase likelihood of
21:49compliance, I'll take a step back. And
21:51so it's these observational differences
21:53which separate. Have you ever heard of
21:55the concept of skill stacking where it's
21:56like, "All right, I'm never going to be
21:57in the top 1%, but I can be in the top
21:595% in five different areas that overlap.
22:02What do you think about that?"
22:03>> I'm a a a hardcore uh advocate. So, I
22:07won my my number one YouTube video of
22:08all time that
22:09>> Okay, interesting. [laughter] I I I got
22:11that from uh Scott Adams, but it makes
22:14sense that you also had that. I probably
22:15also watched it during my binge and uh
22:18planted it in my notes. It's so
22:20important because what happens is this
22:22is kind of like we were saying earlier
22:23where the more skills you have, the more
22:24opportunities you can see. And so that's
22:26where these disperate skills can connect
22:28and then you can see kind of through
22:30lines where no one else can see them
22:31because if you only know how to do one
22:32thing,
22:33>> it's it's very limited in terms of
22:34number of things you can do. But if
22:35you're very good at, you know, math at
22:37the beginning and then it turns into,
22:38okay, well, I'm good I learned how to
22:39bookkeep and then I learned how to do
22:40accounting and then you learn how to do
22:41insurance, then you learn how to do tax,
22:43then you learn how to do M&A, all of a
22:44sudden that stacked together becomes
22:46unbelievably valuable. And so, but if
22:48you just learn, and this is where I
22:49think it gets interesting, is that you
22:50want to learn skills that are
22:51complimentary. Um, now in retrospect,
22:55you know, Steve Jobs is like, "Okay,
22:56well, I learned calligraphy and it
22:57turned into the fonts, you know, for
22:59Mac." I would say, you know, the
23:00secondary question is,
23:02>> would Mac have been successful if it
23:04didn't have fonts?
23:04>> I I was just going to say, I don't think
23:06the the iPhone is a result of him
23:07knowing what sans serif means. Yeah.
23:10>> Um, but what people don't know is that
23:11he studied he was super into computers
23:12and super into hardware from the time he
23:14was a child. And so um learning skills
23:17now if you learned more about supply
23:18chain that would probably be beneficial
23:20for that business right and so learning
23:22those uh you know now there are some
23:24generalizable skills they'll apply to
23:26just about any business because there's
23:27the core product and you want to learn
23:28as much as you can about whatever that
23:29core skill or core thing that you're
23:30building is but then there's all the
23:32things that will always be true for
23:33every business and so this is kind of
23:34what I would consider the difference
23:35between learning the game of business
23:36versus the product itself which is
23:38probably if anything if you look across
23:39all the different businesses that exist
23:41the product's really the only
23:42differentiator the rest of it's the same
23:43you're going to have marketing of sales
23:45like you're going to have HR, you're
23:46going to have legal, you're going to
23:46have financing. All these functions are
23:47there. And so you can guarantee that you
23:49have to learn all those things if you
23:50want to get in the game. Right? Now,
23:52which one do you start with? You're not
23:53going to start with finance because you
23:54have no money to count.
23:55>> Yeah, good point.
23:56>> Right? So, it's like we have to start
23:57these things in sequence. And so,
23:58typically, it's going to be um either
24:00you decide to learn the business from
24:02the outside or you learn from the inside
24:03out. So, what that means is like, okay,
24:05I have to learn how to promote. I have
24:06to let people know about stuff. I have
24:07to learn how to get them to give me
24:08money. So, I have to learn to sell. Um,
24:10and that's kind of like if you just know
24:12those two things, if you literally only
24:14know how to promote and know how to
24:15sell, you will be able to feature
24:17yourself for the rest of your life. If
24:18you just know those two things. Now,
24:20from the product side, it's like, okay,
24:21well, I can build this thing and then
24:22I'll have to learn how to market and
24:24sell it. You can you can go either
24:26direction. Um, but at the end of the
24:27day, you will have to do all those three
24:29things um at a large enough level uh
24:32sorry, at a deep enough level in order
24:33to get that first dollar across. And
24:35that's like those are the the core
24:37deficiencies that
24:38>> two-year super fan at 19. I've consumed
24:40all your content.
24:41>> Uh thousands of cold calls, pushing
24:43seven figures. How do I get in a
24:44personal relationship with both of you?
24:46Didn't expect that one.
24:47>> That took a twist.
24:48>> Sorry about that. I would have ignored
24:50that one had I read the whole thing.
24:53>> Uh get to 50 million.
24:56>> That's not even true.
24:57>> I know it's not true.
25:00>> I don't know either.
25:01>> I don't know to be honest with you, man.
25:03Actually, there is a way which is like
25:06if we have a role and you're like, I
25:08want to spend five years learning and
25:11lead something, you can apply for a role
25:12at ACQ. That's actually the the way.
25:14>> We were with our team most of the time.
25:16>> Yeah. Oh my god. By a lot. I mean, we
25:18have like like 18 exits on on the team.
25:21Like we have a lot of people who started
25:23business, founded businesses, sold them.
25:25>> Uh what mistakes do you think most
25:26people make when it comes to hiring?
25:28>> Oh man. Um,
25:31>> or maybe you could say maybe answer it
25:33differently. I'm hiring for about six or
25:34seven roles. [snorts]
25:36>> What mistakes you think I I'll I'll
25:37likely make.
25:38>> Well, what's the role or what are some
25:40of the roles?
25:40>> Yeah. So, we could say uh what's like a
25:43really a salesperson? That's a that's a
25:45simple one. Um, but I'm hiring other
25:47roles. So, I'm hiring um chapter leads.
25:48So, we have 13 chapters that we uh my
25:51business is based in and we're having
25:52hiring people to manage each chapter. I
25:55mean the easy answer is settling but
25:57it's so tough because there's there's
25:59trades because these things don't exist
26:00outside of time you know it's like I
26:03have to fill this role and I want to
26:06find somebody espec if obviously for us
26:09at the sea level because that's what's
26:10top of mind for me it's like I have to
26:11have somebody that when I'm on the phone
26:12with them I'm thinking I have to have
26:14this person and if I don't have that but
26:16I'm like man I really need this role and
26:19so if if I'm thinking from the like I
26:20really have to fill this role angle it's
26:22like usually not the right person. If
26:24I'm thinking like, I don't even care if
26:25I have a role for this person. I have to
26:26get them in. It's usually the right
26:28person.
26:29>> Are you willing to pay them more than
26:30you originally thought was reasonable?
26:32>> Yes. 100%. Not even a question.
26:34>> Have you ever Have you ever been like, I
26:36got to come up with enough money? Like,
26:37I hope I can get enough sales to afford
26:40this person, but I have to have them.
26:41>> I haven't had the second part because
26:43we're super cash flow positive company,
26:44so like that hasn't been a problem. I
26:46mean, fundamentally, as long as I can
26:47just pencil out the ROI of the role,
26:49then yeah, I'll do it. I mean, it's just
26:51a return on capital. What's what what's
26:53your desired return though?
26:55>> Amazing. [laughter]
26:56>> Oh, yeah.
26:57>> Well, it's like I mean it's I still
26:59>> Google sheets allow you to put amazing
27:00in equals amazing.
27:02>> Mind it.
27:03>> I think I think the highest returns on
27:05capital we get as entrepreneurs is
27:06talent.
27:08>> Like full stop. Like what where else do
27:10you get 10x 20x you know returns 100x
27:13returns uh and and and can do so
27:16reliably. Like talent is one of those
27:17places you can do it. But we'll also say
27:19that typically the higher up the org,
27:21the higher the arbitrage.
27:23>> Are you fast to fire?
27:24>> Uh we continue to get faster. I'll say
27:27that. I think we get faster. I would say
27:29that um our firing practices
27:33do somewhat uh rely on the constraint.
27:35So like sometimes, you know, Leila says
27:37this, but like some fires aren't aren't
27:40kitchen fires. They're like the the
27:43trash can in the driveway is on fire.
27:44It's like it's a problem. like we'll get
27:46to it, but it's not the thing that's
27:48limiting the business. And so, if we
27:51have somebody who's not as good as they
27:52should be, but they're not in a role
27:53that's right now like limiting the
27:54company, it's probably not going to be
27:56our first priority to to to to take them
27:58out. But as soon as that becomes the
28:01constraint, then it like quickly gets
28:03unearthed and then it gets handled.
28:04>> Have you ever uh followed Dave Portoy
28:07Baral Sports?
28:08>> Yeah.
28:08>> Yeah. Like you know, he's quirky, right?
28:11He's crazy.
28:12>> He uh one of his jokes, but it's not a
28:14joke. who's like, "I don't fire people."
28:16He's like, "I just I don't want to fire
28:17people and if they're a loser, I'll just
28:19keep paying them and they're going to
28:20sit in the corner and be a loser, but I
28:22don't fire anyone." And uh I kind of
28:24thought that was hilarious. It's funny
28:26because he's a content company and he
28:28can make content out of it and get ROI
28:29out of like just making fun of someone
28:30who wants to fire. But I was like
28:32shocked that that would be his take on
28:34it because he seemed like a pretty
28:35brutal guy. Not a brutal guy, but he
28:37seems like uh very blunt and he has no
28:38problem firing people. And he was like,
28:40"I do. I suck at it. I don't like the
28:41confrontation. I don't like people
28:43feeling bad. It's I just don't do it.
28:45I'd rather lose money. And uh when I
28:47asked you about firing,
28:48>> I thought that you were going to be
28:49like, "Yeah, like I fire fast." But I
28:51sensed a small bit in your voice where
28:54it sounded like potentially you were
28:56slow to fire because maybe I'm I'm I'm
28:58reading too much into your sentiment or
29:00your tone of voice, but it was like
29:01>> I just don't like it. [laughter]
29:03>> Well, I don't think anybody likes it. I
29:04think we're we're fast to fire if it is
29:06the constraint of the business and
29:07clearly that person is the one limiting
29:08us. like we will not sacrifice the
29:10company's growth and the opportunity of
29:11all the people who've trusted us with
29:12their careers to to not have a you know
29:15a comfortable conversation. There's also
29:17levels of this and so like let's say
29:19there's like you know uh red, yellow,
29:21green, right? If someone's like well
29:23green they're great fine. So basically
29:24you got maybe like yellow orange red
29:26let's use that as the three levels for
29:28me. Like if somebody's just not doesn't
29:30have the complete competence but is not
29:32like they can still do their job but
29:34they're not doing it as well as they
29:35should and they're definitely not going
29:36to grow and they can't take on new
29:37opportunities then that to me is like a
29:40yellow. If they're like for sure like
29:43they can't actually do their their their
29:45role right now that's an orange. If red
29:47is like you can't do the role right now
29:49and that thing is required for us to
29:51grow. And so that's that's kind of like
29:54I would say like we it's it's it's a
29:55combination of like what does the
29:56business need um and how incompetent is
29:59the person? And so the rates of firing I
30:02think would depend on both of those
30:03things. Obviously we want to like in a
30:04perfect world we get everyone out who's
30:06not a fit as soon as humanly possible.
30:08Um it's just that sometimes some people
30:09do turn it around uh with good feedback
30:11and coaching and that probably happens
30:12half the time. Like I guess asking
30:15myself the question like why do I feel
30:16bad about making this decision and then
30:18trying to make sure that I'm not acting
30:21in the global bad for local good like
30:23local versus global. Like I think about
30:25that as like my way of trying to break
30:27through that like terrible feeling you
30:28have when you're like I have to let this
30:29person go. It's like well if I don't I'm
30:32choosing short-term comfort over over
30:34long-term discomfort. And I think most
30:36of life can be boiled down to people
30:38doing that over and over again is they
30:39take the local whim. They take the
30:40short-term win for the global loss. It's
30:42like if you do that enough times, you
30:43get a global a global catastrophe. And
30:46so that's what I try to avoid. And I
30:48just put the the greater good as the
30:50frame um as my like little my little
30:53spirit spiritual armor, if you will, of
30:55going into it knowing that like this
30:57person might get upset. Um, and this
30:59might even, you know, dramatically
31:01inconvenience this person's life in the
31:02short term, but like I owe it to the
31:04other zillion people who also have put
31:08their, you know, their careers, their
31:10their their lives in in, you know, my
31:12hands to a degree from a decision-m
31:14process. Like, I owe it to them. Uh,
31:16thoughts on the best type of sales for
31:17you to get into experience. Volume,
31:19brother. Volume. Every single phenomenal
31:22marketer that I know personally started
31:24with a high volume sales position. I
31:26know guys who started in high volume
31:28cold calling number one. I know people
31:31who done uh high volume doortodoor. I
31:33know a guy who uh sold at a car wash,
31:36sold 200 cars a day walking through the
31:38door. You want something that gets you
31:40as many feedback loops as possible. That
31:41is my biggest my biggest piece of
31:43advice. The reason I'm a big fan of
31:44people who sold in fitness is because in
31:45fitness so many people are trying to
31:47lose weight. You can like you can take a
31:48100 calls at like you can you can see
31:51unlimited amounts of people if you're
31:52trying to sell weight loss. And so my
31:55recommendation if you're trying to get
31:56into it is don't worry about what you're
31:58earning. W worry about what you're
31:59learning and you want to get as much
32:00volume as you possibly can in the
32:01shortest period of time. I mean how do
32:03you figure out what you're good at?
32:05>> Yeah. Because there's volume and then
32:07there's also reflection on the volume.
32:08And how do you get better at the
32:10reflection portion?
32:11>> Yeah. So it's volume times feedback
32:12loops. So if you think about skill
32:14acquisition in general, now this is
32:16relatively well documented but like you
32:18do the like if I want to learn any new
32:20skill. So rather than saying like what
32:21am I good at? I think it's sometimes
32:23more valid to say like what do I want to
32:24get good at now people have quote
32:26proclivities or they're like oh I'm
32:28naturally predisposed to these things
32:29maybe but you can't control your
32:31genetics and maybe you don't know um and
32:33maybe it was just a nurture thing that
32:35earlier on I remember I had this and I
32:36will loop around to the answer but um I
32:39was in college and one of my favorite
32:40professors uh he taught a class called
32:42systematic inquiry which is basically
32:44like how do you ask questions and answer
32:45them which is great um and he he's a
32:48super nurture over nature guy in terms
32:51of like his his thought process around
32:52the world. And I tend to skew more in
32:54towards the the the the nurture side as
32:56well. And he said like all the things
32:58that you guys think you're naturally
32:59good at, you're not naturally good at.
33:00You just got good at them earlier. And
33:02so I was like, I've always been really
33:04good at languages. And I was like, I
33:05don't I feel like that's something. And
33:07and he just looked at me and he was
33:08like, I mean, do you have a parent that
33:09speaks another language or there's
33:10someone in your life? And I was like, oh
33:12yeah, both my parents are bilingual and
33:14I spoke French as my first language. And
33:16he was like, why are we even talking? It
33:18was like such an it felt so because I
33:20didn't see the I was like it was so
33:22natural to me that I didn't even think
33:23about it but the the very first my
33:25existence was two languages and so
33:27incorporating third or even seeing
33:29English differently was something that
33:31quote came natural to me but it was just
33:33like I had a different skill set that
33:34was repeated earlier on and so um to the
33:37original question in terms of skill
33:38acquisition it's like you have a volume
33:40of activity that you're doing so if I
33:41want to learn how to you know play the
33:43trumpet it'd be like I'm going to play
33:44the trumpet for an hour and then I'm
33:47going to look at other people who play
33:49the trumpet and compare what my notes
33:51sound like to compare what their notes
33:53sound like. And the fastest way to do
33:54that is to have an expert tutor. Like
33:56I'm a huge fan of tutoring. Um it is the
33:58fastest way to learn. Uh the second
34:00fastest is in small groups. And the
34:01third is to join a community of people
34:03who already have the same skill and then
34:05you can basically learn through osmosis.
34:07Um and when I say learn through osmosis
34:08is just learn through observation of the
34:10small skills and skills that they do on
34:13a regular basis that increase the
34:14likelihood they get what they want.
34:17But if you like if I'll say one thing.
34:19If you if you want to learn something,
34:22whatever it is,
34:24the fastest thing to do is go into a
34:27community of people who already know how
34:29to do that thing. Well, it's the barnown
34:31fastest thing. You'll get many different
34:32feedback groups from many different
34:34sources. You'll be able to tease out
34:35what are the the few truths rather than
34:37the mysticism that's kind of associated
34:39with that whole space because every
34:40space has my mysticism around it in
34:42magic. But there's usually a few core
34:43truths that that are always true amongst
34:45all people.
34:47for the skill.
34:49That makes a lot of sense.
34:50>> I believe that anything can be trained.
34:51So that's like a human belief of mine. I
34:53do think it will take much longer for
34:55some people than others to be clear.
34:56Like I think you could take someone down
34:57syndrome and make a neurosurgeon. It
34:58would just take probably more resources
35:00than anyone is willing to do.
35:02>> And so basically if you break down any
35:04skill and so this is actually just
35:05because I'm excited to talk about
35:06training because it's something I like a
35:07lot. But the more skilled the
35:09individual, the bigger the instruction.
35:11So if so I I just now I'm a coowner of
35:13school and so I said listen I'm gonna
35:15promote school that's what I'm gonna do.
35:17That's the instruction. It's not like
35:18hey Alex can you send emails and this is
35:20how you send an email and can you make
35:21content and this is how you want to
35:22write a hook and this is hey and when
35:24you run ads do you think it like no no
35:25no like you can I can have one
35:27direction. Someone say hey can we start
35:28a company around this? They can give a
35:29vague directive but I have all the subs
35:30skills so that I can say yes I can do
35:32that and I can execute on it.
35:33>> Right
35:33>> underneath of that it's like okay now
35:35you've got somebody who just understands
35:36content markets when understands sales
35:38whatever. If you have a closer, you say,
35:40"Hey, go sell this thing." Right? But at
35:42the very basic level, every skill has
35:43subs skills underneath of it. And so
35:45it's like, "Okay, turn on the phone, hit
35:49this button, then hit this but like at
35:51the like if you're going from the bottom
35:52up." And so it's really just how much
35:54are you willing to train someone to get
35:56them to be proficient. And so I just
35:58believe that you can break down skills
36:00to that level so that anyone can do it.
36:02And it just comes down to the resources
36:04of the institution of whether or not
36:05it's worth investing in that particular
36:07person. Got it. That's how I see it. And
36:09so I do think that anyone and the thing
36:10is is that if you're an individual
36:12salesperson or you're getting into
36:13sales, you're the institution making the
36:15investment. And I sure as hell hope that
36:17you believe that you're worth the
36:18long-term investment of learning the
36:19skill because it works with everything.
36:20Right. Right. And so like if it takes
36:22you a year longer to become a top rep,
36:24who cares?
36:25>> Yep. Y
36:25>> that's how I see like maybe some guys
36:26can do it in a month. It might take you
36:28two years. Again, who cares?
36:29>> Yeah. I think people come in with
36:30building blocks. Meaning like if if I I
36:32were to come in and and do a sale, I
36:34have a I'm going to succeed a lot
36:35quicker cuz my building blocks and it
36:37might not just be building blocks from
36:38sales. Like sometimes you could see the
36:40building blocks from somebody saying,
36:41"Oh, okay. This person was in sports,
36:43that means they're going to be a lot
36:44less emotional to when somebody says
36:46no," they come in with a bigger building
36:47blocks than maybe somebody that wasn't
36:48in sports. So you have to look at all
36:50those on the learning curve. But two
36:51things, number one, when you said uh
36:53investing into people, so I'm going to
36:55shift this now more into a leadership
36:57and training conversation for a second.
36:59>> Who do you decide? Because there's a lot
37:00of people that say, you know, work with
37:01the people that are willing to learn,
37:03etc. If I'm a business owner, if I'm a
37:05sales leader, who do I decide to, you
37:07know, who do I decide to work with?
37:08Because I personally, me, I work with
37:10people that show up and they get results
37:12and they keep progressing and they
37:13constantly get results. I think some
37:14people defend people because sometimes,
37:16you know, the person's trying or, you
37:18know, they're a good person or whatever
37:20the case is. And I'm like, but are they
37:21[ __ ] making [ __ ] happen?
37:23>> We work with people in the organization
37:25that make stuff happen. Now, it might
37:26not just be money, but are they
37:27progressing it? You know, are they
37:28getting more booked meetings? are they,
37:30you know, is their contacts going up,
37:31etc. So, who do you decide as a leader
37:34to put your attention on when the sales
37:35team is so big?
37:37>> So, I I'll do two layers here. Got it.
37:39>> So, when we because we we deal at the at
37:41the company level. And so, the first
37:42thing I did like when we scale the the
37:4440 person sales team was go bring in an
37:46exceptional sales director.
37:48>> And so, identifying an exceptional sales
37:49director because I think depending on
37:51who's listening, what they're looking
37:52for, an exceptional sales director is
37:54somebody who in my opinion is basically
37:56a sales operator. And so the best sales
37:58directors aren't even necessarily even
37:59selling because they have to basically
38:01sell the conviction of the whole team.
38:02They run the culture and the training of
38:04the sales team. And so they have to be
38:06somebody who genuinely cares about
38:07people and they have to be willing to
38:09repeat themselves over and over and over
38:11again and sometimes play therapist and
38:12get someone out of a cold streak and be
38:14willing to roleplay until their eyes
38:16bleed. Got it? Because that in my
38:17opinion is what makes an exceptional
38:18sales direct. They have to understand
38:20how to train and motivate. underneath of
38:22that in terms of what what reps are we
38:24going to put more resources towards for
38:26me it's following the playbook and so it
38:29and I think this is this is holding
38:31business owners and you know the people
38:32who are quote running things to a higher
38:35bar which is my entire objective like
38:37our sales team is you follow the script
38:40period now if you don't close and you
38:43follow the script you have won in my
38:44eyes and if you followed up based on the
38:47cadence that we have and you said the
38:48things you were supposed to do you could
38:49close no one for a year and I would be
38:51fine with it Because if everyone is
38:52having that happen, then I need to
38:54change the script. Got it? That's on me.
38:55And so my first objective with a sales
38:57team is adherence because then I have a
38:59controllable. The vast majority of sales
39:01teams have 10 guys selling 10 different
39:04ways. And that's why for most businesses
39:06it is about recruiting good sales people
39:08because they just give the directive
39:09sell and then they have a one-on-one
39:11once a week and say, "Hey, yeah, just
39:13build more rapport and you know, like uh
39:15you know, just get your energy up and
39:16like it just that doesn't help people."
39:19Whereas saying
39:21your first 5 seconds the call, you're
39:22introducing yourself poorly. This is the
39:24script. Try it for me. Uhhuh. Again,
39:27raise your voice at the end and try it
39:29again. Okay. Five more times. Great.
39:32Next question. And so we want to drill
39:34one part of the script until they can
39:35breathe it and then we move on to the
39:37next part. And for us, the one-on-one
39:40serve as the training function. And so
39:42like I don't know a better way to tr
39:44like in in my opinion training comes
39:46down to shadowing in terms of game
39:49footage because I think the most
39:50expensive thing that someone can do as a
39:51business owner is waste leads on an
39:53inexperienced rep. It's bad for your
39:54reputation because they botch things.
39:56It's super expensive because you lose
39:57the opportunity of making money.
39:59Everything sucks. And so I want them to
40:02train on as many old recordings as
40:04humanly possible. And so I want them to
40:05watch 60, 100 hours of footage, game
40:08tape of other guys doing great job
40:10selling so that they they're they're
40:11thinking about the script in their in
40:13their subconscious. Right. Got it. Do
40:14you show them the negatives on the
40:15scripts too or no? Just positives.
40:17>> I prefer to do positive because I want
40:18to train them on what to do rather than
40:20what necessarily what not to do.
40:21>> Um and so we focus there. Then when they
40:24do get on the calls, we only have them
40:26take half third schedules because we
40:27don't want them to, you know, quickly,
40:29you know, bomb the first day and then
40:30like I have to deal with headsp space
40:32stuff. just you're going to take a
40:33couple calls and then we're going to
40:34review both the calls with the manager
40:36and they're going to go over okay and
40:38this is key. We say let's watch it
40:41pause. What do you think you could have
40:42done better?
40:43>> I'm not going to tell you because if I
40:44tell you're going to you're you're going
40:46to be like this sucks. I'm like because
40:48if I yell at you you think I suck,
40:49right? And we do the same thing with the
40:50team. If the team's on the call and we
40:52do game tape as a team, which we do like
40:54once a week with the whole sales team,
40:56everyone, if the team comments, it's on
40:58what you did well
41:00>> and then you get to comment on what you
41:01could have done better. And then it's
41:02the manager's job on your one-on-one to
41:04then say, "Okay, Daniel, you needed to
41:07work on your rapport building." Or,
41:08"Hey, you're really soft on the close
41:10here." Or, "Hey, you're really
41:11struggling with uh the uh I need more
41:13information part, so let's let's drill
41:15that." Okay, I need more information.
41:16When you say, "Oh, what's your main
41:17concern?" Well, okay, now we can go into
41:19it, right? Sure. And so we want to drill
41:22in the most minute level what they need
41:24to say and then do it over and over and
41:26over again so they say the same words
41:28every time. And then what happens like
41:32the the performance of the team once you
41:33get that culture if someone comes in and
41:35tries to go they're like dude this guy's
41:36not following the script
41:37>> like get this guy out of here like he's
41:39the joker
41:39>> and so that way we can control the
41:42variables so that we actually can have a
41:43sales system and by doing that we can
41:45really teach sales. That's how I live.
41:48>> If you're ever going to explain
41:49anything, only explain via analogy,
41:51which is absolutely imprecise, but way
41:53more effective for getting people to
41:54understand what you're talking about.
41:56>> Yeah. So, I just like don't talk about
41:58science. Just no one [ __ ] cares. Just
42:00go analogy. Um, and talk about So, the
42:03difference so good content is
42:04declarative, not procedural. Meaning,
42:07you want to talk about stuff, not how to
42:08do stuff.
42:10So think about talking about what is
42:13possible or what the problems are with
42:15an existing thing rather than um
42:20this is how you like you know we do two
42:23two pills a day and like
42:26as as soon as you get grand you lose
42:27everyone. So you just want to talk
42:29conceptual in your content.
42:32From a training perspective,
42:35a lot of times we think we need to like
42:36explain how something works to someone
42:39rather than when then just teach pattern
42:42matching.
42:43>> And pattern matching is significantly
42:45faster to train and just as effective,
42:48>> right? Because in the 95% of cases where
42:51like patterns will just always match,
42:53they can just run the playbook. Um, and
42:55then in the 5% that don't, they can go
42:58to you and then you just create another
42:59pattern for that and you can train them
43:01on it. But like most of the time, like
43:03you don't need to explain how
43:05mitochondria work or whatever, right?
43:07It's just like the biggest cost that you
43:10have is ignorance. So every single month
43:13you've got your rent, you've got your
43:14food, you've got your clothes, you got
43:16your car, you got whatever else you
43:17spend, and you think that's my fixed
43:19costs. years ago, I was sitting in the
43:21audience and I saw a man write a million
43:23dollars on a whiteboard and he called
43:25someone from the audience. He said, "How
43:26much do you make per year?" And they
43:28said, " $50,000 a year." And he said,
43:30"Would you like to make a million a
43:31year?" And the person said, "Yes." And
43:33then he put a minus sign and he said,
43:34"Did you know that it's costing you
43:36$950,000 per year to not know how to
43:39make a million dollar a year?" And it
43:41was such a light bulb moment for me that
43:43I realized that the cost of ignorance is
43:47the difference between what your goals
43:48are and what you have today. Because if
43:51you knew how to achieve your goals, the
43:53difference is the value of that
43:55education. And conversely, the
43:58difference is the cost of that debt of
44:01ignorance. And so the number one
44:03priority in my life has always been to
44:05pay down ignorance as fast as I possibly
44:07could using whatever currency I needed
44:09to. So if that was relational capital
44:11that means using my network or doing
44:13favors for people or paying money which
44:15is the least efficient way of doing it.
44:17I would try and find a way that I could
44:18pay down ignorance to achieve the things
44:20that I wanted so I could get the
44:21information so I could get the learning.
44:23When I started um I paid to get into
44:25rooms. So I paid $25,000 $35,000. And
44:28you're like wait I don't have that right
44:29now. I get it. Well you pay $10,000 was
44:31the first thing I ever bought that was
44:32information based. That's what I was the
44:34first thing I ever invested. And how was
44:35I able to do that? Because I had saved
44:37for two years and I'd saved 50 grand up.
44:39And so for me, I was like, "Okay, this
44:40is the direction I'm going in. I'm going
44:42to invest in learning." And when I got
44:44in that room, the first room I was in
44:46was a gym owner room, and I didn't have
44:48a gym. And I paid to be in that room so
44:50I could start the gym the right way.
44:51When I paid to the $25,000 room, it was
44:53an internet marketing room. And guess
44:55what? I didn't have an internet
44:56marketing business, but I paid there so
44:58I could try and learn how to do it the
44:59right way rather than try and start it
45:00the wrong way and have to fix it. And
45:01so, I think a lot of people wait too
45:03long to try and learn. I always want to
45:05grab my future and pull it towards me.
45:07And so I was willing to spend as much
45:09money as I had available to me to make
45:12those bets because it was a bet on me
45:13and I knew I would never lose that. You
45:15can't lose you. You always have diamond
45:16hands on you. Like till the day you die,
45:18you've got you. And so the thing is
45:21about investing in education is that
45:22sometimes the lessons you learn aren't
45:24the lessons you expect to learn, but you
45:26learn them nonetheless. And so sometimes
45:28you go into an education thing and you
45:29don't get what you thought, but you
45:30still get something and it was still
45:32more than what you paid. And so when I
45:34went into those rooms, I'd already used
45:35up all my money to get in the room. So,
45:36I was like, "Okay, what else do I have?"
45:38And so, at the time, I knew how to sell.
45:39And so, I just went to every single
45:41person in the room and was like, "Can I
45:43help you sell stuff?" And so, they'd be
45:45like, "Well, sure, my sales team sucks,
45:47or sure, my my script sucks, or sure, my
45:49offer sucks, or I don't know how to
45:51overcome these objections." And so, I
45:52would spend an hour, two hours, three
45:54hours on the phone with these people
45:55training their teams, writing scripts.
45:57And they were like, "Dude, thanks so
45:59much. This is way I can't believe you
46:00did all this." And the thing is is that
46:02if you're going to pay for help from
46:05someone, pay in full.
46:08Don't halfass a free gift. And so if
46:12you're good at something, you're good at
46:13a skill, you're an accountant, you don't
46:15do one page of someone's taxes. If
46:18you're going to do a favor, you do the
46:19whole thing. You treat them like they're
46:21a paying customer. And then they will
46:23respond as though you have paid them.
46:25And so it will be like you've given them
46:27money and then you will get that
46:28reciprocity. And at the time when I did
46:29those favors for all those people, I
46:31didn't know what I was going to ask for.
46:33I just knew that I would need someone's
46:34help in the room. And I'd rather have
46:36more phone numbers I could call for help
46:38that owed me one than none. And when I
46:41wanted to make a webinar, I called one
46:43of the people who's good at webinars.
46:44When I wanted to run ads, I called the
46:46guy who's really good at running ads.
46:47When I wanted to uh figure out funnels
46:50and landing pages and stuff, I called
46:51the guy who was really good at funnels
46:52and landing pages, cuz each of those
46:54guys wasn't good at what I was good at.
46:55And so we are able to barter, which by
46:57the way still to this day is the most
46:59efficient form of trade because Uncle
47:01Sam don't take any piece of it for us or
47:04them. Skills are typically chunked up or
47:08chunked down. So basketball, so people
47:11like he is good at basketball. They're
47:12saying he has many skills as it relates
47:14to this thing. Now within basketball,
47:17you've got dribbling, you've got
47:18shooting, you've got passing, right?
47:20These are subsklls underneath of
47:22basketball. To the same degree in
47:23business, you could be good at business
47:26versus good at marketing, good at sales,
47:27but good at product, good at hiring. All
47:30of these are subsklls underneath of
47:32those larger skills. Now, if we were to
47:34go uh even deeper than that, we also
47:36have generalizable skills across
47:39domains. So, if I have great hand eye
47:42coordination, I might be better or learn
47:44something faster, like I will learn how
47:46to shoot faster, but I'll also learn how
47:48to play ping pong faster. I'll also
47:50learn how to serve a tennis uh serve
47:52faster because I have generalizable
47:54skills. And so a specific skill is a
47:57skill that does not generalize across
47:58domains. Now, when you have more
48:00specific skills, the the am it's more a
48:03degree to which it generalizes rather
48:05than does it generalize or not. So I
48:07could have that eye hand coordination
48:09thing, which would pretty much
48:09generalize to anything that I use my
48:11hands and my eyes, which is a lot of
48:12stuff, right? But would would uh would
48:15shooting the specific skill uh
48:17generalize over to I don't know chess?
48:22Probably not. It's like well you're
48:23using your eyes and your hands but not
48:25really. It's a lot more about decision-m
48:26right? And so are there are there closer
48:29ones? Would it would that go uh better
48:32for beer pong? Probably. That would
48:34generalize over my foul shots versus
48:37beer pong probably does generalize to a
48:39great degree. Not 100% but decent. And
48:42so the reason this is important is that
48:45people like language matters. And so
48:48some of you will say,"I want to get good
48:50at business, Alex, but business is not
48:52something you can get good at. It is a
48:55bucketed term that has many skills
48:58underneath of it." And since we just
49:00defined what skills are, which is
49:02adaptive chains in behavior, you start
49:04something and you do three or four
49:05things in a row that get an outcome,
49:07right? Business has marketing. And guess
49:10what? Marketing is also a skill that is
49:13an adaptive chain. And so you basically
49:15have to keep chunking down until you
49:17finally figure out the the the skills
49:21that you can quantify in terms of
49:23behavior.
49:26And so this goes all the way up and all
49:28the way down. Like reading, writing, and
49:30speaking are are are generalizable
49:32skills that will apply to everything.
49:34Learning in and of itself is a skill.
49:37like your ability to learn, your ability
49:39to figure it out, right? And so,
49:44back to this little example I have here,
49:48many of you want to learn more stuff,
49:51but because you have not broken down the
49:53thing you want to learn, you stare at
49:55the screen and keep searching, hoping
49:57that you're going to get some recipe.
50:00But the recipe is that you have to keep
50:01breaking it down into smaller and
50:03smaller constituent parts so that you
50:05can get it into an understandable unit
50:07that you can change your behavior
50:09within. You have seasons of earning and
50:11you have seasons of learning. I had this
50:13kid who reached out. He was 18 years
50:15old. Said he was going to edit videos
50:16for us. When he came in, he said,
50:19[music] "I want $100,000 a year as an
50:22editor as a starting job." His reasoning
50:25was that somebody else had offered him
50:27that amount of money. I want to make
50:29this statement because I think it's
50:30logical and also stupid. If you're
50:32optimizing for your earning potential in
50:34your 20s, [music] you're missing the
50:36[ __ ] point. This individual had the
50:38potential to be on a team that has a
50:40massively globally recognized brand
50:43[music] in terms of media and from there
50:46learn how to be way better than they
50:48currently are and then become a creative
50:50director at another company or at one of
50:52my portfolio companies. like that is the
50:54career path and instead was comparing
50:56that to something that he would make
50:57$100,000 a year and be the only person
51:00in the department and no one there knew
51:02anything about media and so he wasn't
51:03going to learn, he was going to earn.
51:06Whereas somebody who got into the big
51:09leagues and learned 10 times the skill
51:11set, then 10 years later is either
51:14starting a multi-million dollar company
51:15or heading up a multi-million dollar
51:17division in a billion dollar company.
51:19and the potential is so much wider
51:21because 10 years from now someone says
51:22what's your experience? It's like well I
51:23I worked at a real estate firm and I
51:25made their social media content. Who
51:27gives a [ __ ] Whereas if you're like I
51:29worked for one of the biggest media
51:30companies out there. Everyone will give
51:32you the job offer. And that is when you
51:34can choose to earn over learn. But
51:36people make the trade too soon because
51:38they compare themselves to people on
51:39social media and think that the 0001% is
51:43the norm. [music] Whenever you choose to
51:45earn rather than learn, you're right
51:47hooking life and saying, "I'm no longer
51:49going to develop and this is good
51:50enough." And so, if a $100,000 a year is
51:51actually good enough for your long-term
51:53goals, then do it. [music] But I would
51:54imagine that it probably isn't for what
51:56you really want to do long term. And I'm
51:57using 100, you know, six figures as a as
51:59a placeholder. It can be whatever number
52:00you want. When you make that decision
52:02that you're no longer going to learn,
52:03that's when you stop growing your
52:04[music] potential to learn more. I say
52:06this because that's what I did. I had a
52:08white collar consulting job for defense
52:10contracting. I had a top secret
52:11clearance. I had everything that looked
52:12good on paper. space, [music] cyber
52:14intelligence. I had a two to threeear
52:16path clearly for for getting an MBA at
52:17an Ivy League school and then decided
52:19[music] to drop all of that and start
52:21working for $13 an hour at a gym after I
52:23graduated magnetic ladi in 3 [music]
52:25years from Vanderbilt. I know what I'm
52:27asking people to do and I'm not asking
52:29them to do something that I wasn't
52:30willing to do. And I think that I might
52:31have even a more extreme version that
52:33most people are having to [music] live
52:34with. Trying to say like, well, I can't
52:35figure out what I want is a really
52:37paralyzing place to be that I think a
52:40lot of young people are in. is like I
52:41want to find my passion. But the big
52:44misnomer is actually a language issue
52:45[music] which is that people say they
52:46want to find their passion rather they
52:48want to build it or create it or learn
52:49it. And so like I can promise you that
52:51if you're good at something you'll like
52:52doing [music] it. And the only way that
52:53you get good at something is by doing
52:54things that you suck at. There are
52:56naturals. What I would determine as a
52:57natural is someone who observed not
53:00consciously but still learned. So I'll
53:03explain.
53:05Many of us we we're going to learn a lot
53:07of our stuff not consciously. When you
53:08were a kid, when you're a toddler, you
53:10learn from your surroundings. You when
53:12you were two years old, you weren't
53:13like, "Huh, what observation is papa
53:15doing today? I will I will observe him
53:17and I will model his behavior." No. All
53:20you did, and here's a wild thing, is
53:22that if you see someone get rewarded,
53:24you will automatically want to do that.
53:27What do you think testimonials are? It's
53:30modeling.
53:32Oh, that person is like me. They got
53:35what I want. their behavior was they
53:37bought this thing. I will therefore buy
53:39this thing, model what they did to get
53:41what they want. There's two types of
53:43things that you can learn. And so if
53:45you're trying to pay down ignorance, you
53:46got to know what you're buying. So you
53:48can learn about something, something
53:50that exists that you didn't know
53:52existed. And then you can learn how to
53:54do something. And so one is called
53:57declarative knowledge, knowledge of
53:58existence. The other is called
54:00procedural knowledge, which is knowing
54:01how to do it. And so if I explain to you
54:03that private equity exists and this is
54:05how you can buy, package and sell a
54:07business for a lot of money, now you
54:08know about it, which is a prerequisite
54:11for learning how to do it. And so when
54:14you buy into access to networks, to
54:16people, to relationships, the primary
54:18thing that you're learning is learning
54:20about things that exist. They're going
54:22to tell you tax strategies, investment
54:24strategy, marketing strategies, sales
54:26strategies, business models that you
54:27haven't heard of. That is what you learn
54:29there. But if they tell you those
54:31things, you leave and you get excited.
54:33But then you're like, "Well, shoot. How
54:34do I do it?" Which is the second thing
54:36that you learn how to do, which is the
54:38how part. And so when you're going into
54:40any kind of investment, whether you're
54:42investing time, you're investing trade,
54:44you're doing some work for someone so
54:45they do work for you back, or you're
54:47investing money, you better be sure what
54:49you're buying. And the interesting thing
54:51about those two types of knowledge is
54:53that the declarative knowledge tends to
54:55teach you things that you didn't know
54:57existed. It's the unknown unknowns. That
55:00is why some of these are the biggest
55:02breakthroughs. When you get into those
55:03rooms with someone making 10 or 100
55:04times more than you, they see the world
55:06in a different way. Whereas when you go
55:08for how to, it's more predictable what
55:10you're going to get because you're
55:11specifically trying to learn how the
55:13skill is. You know it exists and you
55:15just need to clarify the steps to
55:16getting there. And so just delineating
55:18what you're trying to learn will help
55:20you actually learn it. So the first time
55:22I learned declarative knowledge was that
55:24Facebook ads existed. That was in 2013.
55:26And so I learned how they how they
55:28worked and I learned just enough to make
55:30them work. So I learned declarative
55:31knowledge that they existed and I
55:33learned how to do them in one weekend.
55:35Super valuable. Now I was able to ride
55:37that skill set for a couple years until
55:40I was like you know what I need to learn
55:42how to do this at a bigger scale. I
55:43wanted to go national with started gym
55:45launch do the turnarounds and so I was
55:46like I need somebody because I had only
55:47run local ads which by the way are much
55:49easier than national style ads. And so I
55:51tried to go all around asking people for
55:53help. And at this point, I had probably
55:55used up the relational capital that I
55:57had before. So, I called a bunch of
55:59agencies. All of them said they were
56:00going to charge me too much money that I
56:01could afford. And then finally, I just
56:02asked one guy, "Hey, instead of your
56:04monthly rate of $5,000 a month," which I
56:06couldn't even come close to affording at
56:08the time. I was like, "Can I just pay
56:09you per hour?" Now, of course, he said,
56:11"I don't trade my time for money."
56:13Except, of course, he works overtime and
56:15then he gets money later, but sure.
56:17Anyways, he doesn't trade time for
56:18money. And I said, "It's America.
56:20Everything's got a price." And he said,
56:21"You know what? 750 an hour, I'll do it.
56:25And I was like, done. Now, mind you, 750
56:27an hour was still a ton of money for me.
56:28And so, I showed up like it was Harvard
56:30on steroids for these calls because I I
56:32would prep for the call. I had my notes
56:33out. I recorded it. I was like I had two
56:36people in the room be like, "Make sure I
56:37don't miss anything, right?" And so, I
56:38would go and I had him first document
56:42the process of what he did to run ads as
56:45though he were me. Then, I had him
56:48demonstrate it. So, he clicked the
56:50buttons so I could see what he was
56:51doing. And I had him stop and explain to
56:53me each of the steps so I could put it
56:54into my little checklist, too. And then
56:56finally, I duplicated in front of him,
56:58which means document, demonstrate,
56:59duplicate. I then did it in front of him
57:01to make sure that I was doing it right.
57:03And so once I did it right, and I did it
57:05right multiple times in a row, and I
57:06didn't need him to to to correct me
57:08while I was doing it, that's when I had
57:10mastered the skill. It took me eight
57:12sessions. So, it took me eight hours.
57:14And I would strongly recommend if you
57:16want to quote do anything then just look
57:18at the jobs they have available and try
57:20and do that. So rather than just go in
57:22like empty just be like oh you have a
57:24data entry position I'll do that for you
57:26and then in all of the extra time that's
57:28where you try and have lunch with people
57:29that's where you try and basically build
57:31your network within the business so you
57:32can start leveraging like relationships
57:34to gain more skills and then you can
57:36start you know moving your way in and
57:37learning what you want to learn.
57:38>> What about applying to businesses that
57:40don't need your help or aren't hiring?
57:43One of my things I always thought it was
57:44great to approach places you'd want to
57:46work and just say I'll take on any role.
57:48>> I think it's like I think it depends on
57:52>> depends on the visibility of the
57:53company. So if if the company has like a
57:55really big social media presence, they
57:56have so many people doing that that the
57:58supply demand of people asking for that
58:00specific thing is super not in your
58:02favor. If you went to a business that's
58:04not based on that, like you go to an
58:06electric, you know, like an HVAC
58:07company, you probably could find some
58:09work there that they'll let you do. And
58:12so I think it's again it's like try and
58:13shoot where like the big the big
58:15arbitrage in life is finding supply
58:17demand discrepancies uh that are in your
58:19favor and so you have a supply of work
58:22they have a demand. Now if there's way
58:24more supply so many people offering it
58:25then they can dictate their own terms
58:27and if they don't need it then they
58:28don't need it.
58:29>> The single greatest skill you can
58:30develop is the ability to stay in a good
58:32mood in the absence of things to be in a
58:34good mood about.
58:36>> I think that tweet has been my theme for
58:382025. Um, it's been it's it's funny cuz
58:41that was the most shared tweet I've ever
58:43had. Um, and it was it was like it's it
58:47was almost um
58:50[sighs]
58:51not the opposite of iron. It was
58:52fitting, right? It was completely
58:54fitting for the year. And it's been
58:57because like this year I've had a just I
58:59would say a series of unfortunate events
59:01um that has occurred and it's really
59:03tested my tools, right? tools in the
59:06tool belt um for reframing reality so
59:09that I can make my experience less you
59:12know miserable. And so I thought about
59:15that it's like if I were if I were to
59:17boil everything down um of all the
59:19skills that you can learn if everything
59:21that we do eventually becomes irrelevant
59:23then the single greatest skill that you
59:26can develop is being in a great mood in
59:28the absence of things to be in a great
59:30mood about. And so one of the other
59:31frames on this is most people don't
59:34question someone who's in a bad mood.
59:36Like I'm just in a bad mood. So it's
59:37like well if you can be in a bad mood
59:39for no reason it's like you might as
59:40well be in a good mood for no reason
59:42because that one at least serves you.
59:43And so I've been trying to exercise like
59:45cuz there's on one degree there's like
59:46let's count things to be grateful for.
59:48On the other side it's like
59:51why do I have to have things to be
59:53grateful for in order to be in a good
59:55mood? Like why is trying to find things
59:58a requirement of being in that mood?
1:00:00Like can I not find things and still
1:00:02choose to be in a good mood? Because
1:00:03I've certainly not had things to be in a
1:00:05bad mood about and been in a bad mood.
1:00:07>> And so I've been trying to flex that
1:00:08which is like sure we can find things to
1:00:10be grateful for. And when those things
1:00:11pop up, yes, and of course it's a pra,
1:00:12you know, it's a practice. You get
1:00:13better at it. But like what if I can
1:00:15just be in a good mood? And so I've just
1:00:17tried to try to break that that
1:00:19relationship between the two because
1:00:20then it makes it contingent on something
1:00:22that I can find.
1:00:23>> How successful have you been at that?
1:00:25mediocre. If you like this video and
1:00:26you're a business owner who wants to
1:00:27break through your current revenue
1:00:28ceiling, I distilled every lesson from
1:00:30scaling 10 businesses past 10 million
1:00:32and three businesses past 100 million
1:00:34into a completely free scaling road map
1:00:36that I've used to go from 0 to 1, 0 to
1:00:3810, and 0 to 100 plus. And so, you can
1:00:40click here and you can check it out.
1:00:41Again, absolutely free. And since you're
1:00:43a business owner, appreciate you. And uh
1:00:44enjoy.

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