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Why I Fullport Prop Firm Evaluations (And Why It Actually Makes Sense) — Transcript

by Christopher Creamer | Orderflow Trader · 4,170 words · 628 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00All right, what's up? It's Thrax Trades.
0:01I'm back for another video and I'm going
0:04to explain basically how I'm gaming prop
0:07firms without going broke. And not only
0:09that, but I'm gaming the prop firms
0:11using a system that I've been using for
0:13the past 9 months that allows me to be
0:16consistently net positive with prop
0:19firms every single month. Something to
0:21note is that if you use this incorrectly
0:24of what I'm about to tell you, it will
0:25destroy you. You will lose everything.
0:28You will lose a lot of money. And this
0:30is not for beginners. If you don't know
0:33how to trade, this isn't for you. If
0:34you're learning how to trade, this isn't
0:36for you. This is just trying to explain
0:39how to extract as much money as possible
0:42from prop firms and essentially sim farm
0:44them. Many of you might already do this.
0:46Many of you might not like this method.
0:49I'm just explaining how I do it. I find
0:51success doing it and I'm going to keep
0:53doing it until I can no longer do it.
0:55This is how I game prop firms without
0:57going broke. The first thing to mention
0:59is that prop firms are not live trading.
1:02If you treat them as live accounts,
1:04you're playing the wrong game. You are
1:06100% playing the wrong game. They're are
1:08totally different because today's prop
1:10firms are a gamified product of trading.
1:13So, prop firms are not necessarily
1:15designed to be traded like live capital.
1:18Although they may want you to think
1:19that, they may want you to think that
1:21it's like live capital if you're a
1:23beginner.
1:24You have to take a step back and think
1:26for a second.
1:27Evaluations routinely require 100 to
1:31200% returns on accounts just to pass
1:34them and get sim funding, which is
1:36basically a demo account that can pay
1:37you out. Now, if we're going to compare
1:40that to live trading, that that return
1:42expectation is totally unrealistic for
1:44real money trading using proper risk
1:47management. Now, therefore, the rules
1:50prop firms, they're trying to
1:53basically force aggressive behavior by
1:55design. Think about it like this. If you
1:57were to go trade with a fund and the
2:00fund manager required you to double an
2:02account before paying you, you would
2:04laugh and walk. You'd laugh and walk
2:06away. But, prop firms normalize this,
2:09which tells you everything about the
2:10game that we're actually playing when
2:12we're trading prop firms. So, the moment
2:15that you realize that prop firms are
2:16gamified, if you haven't realized that
2:18already, then everything about how you
2:20trade them
2:22could potentially change. Now, most
2:25traders treat simulated rules like real
2:28risk. So, traders apply live trading
2:30psychology to simulated accounts. Some
2:33people will like slow grind evals for
2:36weeks or months, and they fear about
2:38blowing those accounts even though it's
2:40not real capital um other than like the
2:43100 bucks that you spent on the account.
2:46And then this is going to create like
2:48emotional friction um and
2:50underperformance.
2:51Now, don't get me wrong. Slow grinding
2:55works, of course. It can work, but it
2:57caps upside and it wastes the actual
3:00structure that prop firms provide us
3:03with to try and make as much money as
3:04possible. You have to remind yourself
3:06that you're basically emotionally
3:08protecting an account that has no real
3:09downside beyond a reset fee, which is
3:12again like 100 bucks. Now,
3:15if you're new, you need to stop watching
3:16here because that $100 for you, if
3:19you're not making any money with
3:21trading, if you've never had a funded
3:22account, if you've never gotten payouts,
3:25stop watching the video. This is This is
3:27going to hurt you. This is This is not
3:29good advice for you.
3:30Um this might not be good advice for
3:32many traders, but I'm just going to
3:33explain what I do, and if someone wants
3:35to try it, too, if they're capable of
3:37doing it, then that's basically all it
3:40is. It's just explaining how I trade
3:41prop firms. But,
3:43this requires that you actually have an
3:46edge, that you must be capable of
3:49getting payouts already,
3:51and you have to understand execution
3:54risk and self-control. Without
3:57self-control, none of this [ __ ] matters,
3:59okay? So, if you've never been funded,
4:02if you've never received a payout,
4:04this is going to hurt you. This system
4:07I'm going to explain is going to really
4:09hurt you. So, just go do something else.
4:12Now, if you're still with us,
4:14and you pull payouts, and you're just
4:15trying to figure out the best way to
4:16scale,
4:18let's continue.
4:20So, we're going to call it the prop firm
4:22flywheel.
4:23Everyone kind of already knows, you
4:24know, you buy an evaluation, you pass
4:26the evaluation, you get funded, you take
4:28a payout, then you use the payouts to
4:30scale evaluations aggressively, and then
4:32you rinse and repeat. And it's basically
4:34a process.
4:35So, the idea is that the evaluation
4:38phase is just a volume game, and then
4:40the funded phase is the actual cash flow
4:42anchor. So, think about like evaluations
4:44as inventory, and then the funded
4:46accounts as the actual assets. What
4:48we're doing here is we're treating this
4:50like a business.
4:52Now,
4:53we are a business because technically we
4:56are self-employed
4:57analysts that trade fake money for prop
5:01firms, okay? So,
5:03with thinking of this as a business, you
5:06have to understand that there are costs
5:09of doing business. The only goal at the
5:11end of the day is just for us to make
5:13sure that our revenue is more than our
5:15expenses. That is it. So,
5:18blowing evaluations
5:21does not matter. Doesn't matter Doesn't
5:25matter at all because I'm going to I'm
5:26going to tell you why. It's because,
5:28let's say an evaluation costs you like a
5:30hundred bucks,
5:31and
5:32one payout can be a thousand dollars of
5:35real cash, a thousand dollars. Now,
5:38if you think about it, one payout can
5:41literally cover ten blown accounts. If
5:44you have a true edge, what are the odds
5:47that you're going to blow 10 e-vals in a
5:49row without hitting a single payout?
5:53Um at least for me, it's extremely low.
5:56You don't need a perfect hit rate.
5:58You just need positive expectancy. For
6:01me, if I buy 10 e-vals, okay? I know
6:05that I'm probably going to pass at least
6:0860% of them. So, if I buy 10 e-vals, I'm
6:11probably going to blow blow four of
6:12them. I'll probably pass six of them.
6:15Now, out of those six
6:17funded accounts,
6:18I am bound I am
6:21I'm almost guaranteed
6:24to hit basically a $1,000 payout. I have
6:27six tries. I have six tries to get a
6:30$1,000 payout. It's
6:32really shouldn't be that difficult to do
6:34so, and over the past 9 months, it's
6:36never been a problem.
6:38It is important to note though that
6:40aggression should be focused. Should not
6:43be random. When I'm talking about
6:45aggressively trading e-vals, that
6:47doesn't mean to just be completely
6:49reckless, but it means that
6:53you need to have high conviction
6:54execution. So, usually for me with
6:57e-vals, I do not waste any time on them.
7:00I'm passing them in one or two trades
7:02depending on the prop firm's rules.
7:04Usually two trades because of 50%
7:06consistency.
7:07But, one or two trades. It's either
7:09going to hit or it's not. I'm either
7:11going to pass or I'm not, but I happen
7:13to pass more than I actually blow. So,
7:16you need to basically trade evaluations
7:20aggressively because
7:21evaluations reward short bursts of
7:24performance. They don't they don't
7:26really reward consistency. You're not
7:28trying to prove like discipline. You're
7:31just trying to clear a hurdle. These
7:33evaluations are just obstacles in our
7:35way from being able to access cash and
7:37get money in our bank account, and
7:39that's really all that matters.
7:41But, evaluations
7:43and funded accounts are not traded the
7:45same. I do not
7:47I do The same way that funded accounts
7:49and live accounts aren't traded the
7:50same.
7:52Evaluations and funded accounts are not
7:54traded the same. Evals are meant to be
7:56pushed and funded accounts are meant to
7:58be protected. So, we need the funded
8:01accounts to pay us monthly, and they're
8:04going to anchor our P&L, and they're
8:05going to set us up every single month so
8:08that we never actually go net negative
8:11with the firms. We never actually end up
8:13losing money with the firms, and I'm
8:15going to explain that. But, you never
8:17want to emotionally tie yourself to
8:19evaluations.
8:20I blow evals all the time.
8:23I I've probably Honestly, dude, I've
8:26blown like
8:27hundreds of accounts, but you know what?
8:30I've also gotten thousands and thousands
8:32and thousands of dollars in payouts, and
8:34my payouts cover all of those hundreds
8:36of blown accounts.
8:38And that's all that matters. So, funded
8:41accounts are the income stream, and the
8:43evaluations are just this hurdle we need
8:45to get over, and we're going to get over
8:46them quickly. We're not going to spend
8:47time on them because it's a waste of
8:49time.
8:50If you're not learning how to trade, and
8:51you already have a system that works,
8:54why the [ __ ] are you going to waste time
8:55on eval?
8:56It's just It's just a waste of time.
8:58Just [ __ ] full port them.
9:00And like, people are like, "Oh, you
9:02shouldn't full port." Okay, then don't
9:05use this system. I full port evals.
9:07That's the only way I trade them. And I
9:09get payouts. And the only way I get
9:11funded accounts that get payouts is by
9:13full porting evals. And that's how I
9:15build up five, six, seven, eight, nine,
9:1710 funded accounts that I can trade and
9:20pull these eval pull these payouts from.
9:22But, the thing is is when you do have
9:23all those accounts,
9:25you can't copy trade them in the
9:27beginning because it's going to kill the
9:29system that we have. So,
9:31the problem is is that if you were to
9:33like
9:34pass the accounts, and then you get
9:37payout, um then you buy more accounts,
9:40and then you start copy trading all of
9:42them at the same time.
9:44It increases correlation risk, which
9:46basically means that like
9:48one bad sequence can literally wipe out
9:51all of your accounts, and you're going
9:53to have to start over. Um so, you lose
9:55the flexibility because we're trying to
9:58make sure that no matter what, we are
10:00always going to have a funded account.
10:01We are always going to have something
10:03that can make us money. And the worst
10:05thing that you can be in is what people
10:07call eval jail, basically, where you
10:10have no funded accounts, you're trading
10:11a bunch of demo accounts that you can't
10:13make any money from, and you're going to
10:15start yourself off in like a hole every
10:17single month by paying fees without
10:20starting net positive. The better
10:22approach, really, is to trade the
10:24accounts in the beginning
10:26individually. And then, as you kind of
10:29scale more accounts, then you trade them
10:30in groups. If you have six accounts,
10:33maybe you do groups of two or groups of
10:35three. You don't trade all six accounts
10:36together because you don't want to go
10:38back to the beginning and start fresh.
10:41And it's going to basically reduce the
10:43variance while maintaining upside for us
10:45to make cash. So, you scale first,
10:48then you synchronize.
10:50You don't do it the other way around. In
10:52that way, as long as we do it properly,
10:55we're never going to start a month with
10:57zero funded accounts. And this is like
10:59the most important part about this
11:01entire strategy or system when it comes
11:04to trading prop firms because every
11:06month
11:07I have to start with at least one funded
11:10account capable of paying out.
11:13Now, why does this matter? Because
11:16if you don't, you're going to start
11:18every single month
11:20net negative. If we have an account,
11:23then we can get a payout before we buy
11:25any accounts, and we're immediately
11:27going to start net positive. And when
11:30you do that, you're going to eliminate
11:32psychological pressure. And then we're
11:34actually going to fund that aggression
11:36of scaling from profits and not just
11:39from hope. So, I'll give you an example
11:42of this month. It's currently the 2nd of
11:44February. The month just started.
11:47Well, you know what? I have a funded
11:49account that I brought over from last
11:51month where later today when Asia opens,
11:55I'll catch my 200 bucks. And then I'm
11:57going to take my $5,000 payout with
11:59Topstep.
12:00It's instantly going to put me up $4,500
12:03on the month. And now I have cushion and
12:05I have room to then aggressively scale
12:08more accounts. And then by the end of
12:09this month or even just
12:11a few days from now, I'm going to have
12:14two, three, four, five more funded
12:16accounts that I can add to our funded
12:18army.
12:19And then I'll just make sure heading
12:21into next month that we don't have no
12:24funded accounts to start the month.
12:26Because if you start the month in a
12:27hole, you're already behind. And then
12:30the whole time you're just basically
12:31trying to make your money back. And then
12:33it's just you don't want it to be like
12:35that. The goal at the end of the day is
12:37just never to go net negative on the
12:40month. So, how does that actually work?
12:43You secure a payout early in the month.
12:45You then use the profits or the surplus
12:48to scale the evaluations. And then if
12:51you ever hit a drawdown cycle,
12:54you stop. If you ever like
12:57take two grand in payouts and then you
13:00just kept blowing accounts for whatever
13:01reason. Now you spent $1,500 in fees.
13:05Okay, well you're still net positive.
13:07Just stop. Just stop. Save your funded
13:10accounts. And just like focus on those.
13:13Don't focus on aggressively pressing the
13:16evals. And then just try and basically
13:19build up those fundeds to take the
13:21payouts to then not have to restart next
13:24month. The worst case scenario of this
13:27system is you basically build it up
13:30and then you get payouts and then you
13:33lose all of your payout profits from
13:35blowing a bunch of evaluations and then
13:37you blow your funded accounts and then
13:39you stop at break even or slightly above
13:42break even
13:44and then you have to start from the
13:45beginning but you'll just start again
13:47next month and you just never allow
13:49yourself ever to go net negative on the
13:52month and you need to keep track of how
13:55much you spend on prop firms and you
13:57need to keep track on how much you're
13:58pulling out from prop firms because this
14:01is a business
14:03the way we should be treating this is a
14:05business what type of business doesn't
14:07keep track of their expenses and their
14:09revenue
14:10never heard of it so we need to treat it
14:13the same way you can't just like pull
14:15out your credit card and just keep
14:17buying [ __ ] and then [ __ ] get payouts
14:19and then feel validated and be like I
14:21got a payout well how much money did you
14:23actually make how much money did you
14:25spend to actually make that $1500 payout
14:30or that $2000 payout and so what that
14:32turns into is just managing monthly cash
14:35flow not managing daily emotions so it's
14:38not trade management this is bankroll
14:40management and this is how we can make
14:43sure that we're going to be consistently
14:45profitable with the firms
14:48so as you're in profit in this system
14:52and you're net positive on the month
14:55and you're getting towards the end of
14:56the month
14:57you have to start thinking about setting
14:59up the next month and what I mean by
15:01that is like
15:03once you're net positive then your risk
15:05tolerance increases and it's going to
15:07allow you to aggressively essentially
15:10full port evals late in the month to set
15:13up or seed next month's income
15:16so you're always trying to play
15:18one month ahead
15:20and you're going to blow accounts.
15:22That's expected. The system accounts for
15:25it, but you're farming sim funds to
15:27protect real cash flow. And that's
15:29really what matters at the end of the
15:31day. Now, this is a this is really
15:33important. Okay, doing this prop firms
15:37are not going to like it. You actually
15:38might get banned from a prop firm for
15:40doing this. Or, for example, with
15:42Topstep, they might put you on a focus
15:44traders program. I'm going to be
15:46completely honest with you, they've sent
15:48me a focus traders program warning, but
15:51I do not give a [ __ ] I don't care
15:53because I know why they're sending it to
15:55me. Topstep hasn't gotten a single
15:57[ __ ] dollar out of me in the past 9
15:59months straight. Every single month I've
16:02taken them for money. So, obviously, I'm
16:05exploiting their business model. They
16:07want people to treat these accounts like
16:09they're live accounts, and I'm saying,
16:10"Fuck that. I'm going to farm them,
16:11basically." They don't like it. Of
16:14course, they don't like it. It's to be
16:15expected, and other firms are going to
16:16be the same way. Now, they might not
16:19have programs like Topstep, but they may
16:21just ban you. But, I understand the risk
16:24of that. And I'm still going to do it
16:26anyways cuz it's work it works,
16:27basically. And I'm still doing it.
16:29Something to think about, too, is like
16:32yeah, they're going to try and like
16:34prevent you from doing it. Why? Well,
16:37because you're winning and you're making
16:39money.
16:40Prop firms are not successful off of
16:42winning traders. They they need losing
16:44traders to survive. That's how they
16:46grow. That's how they become successful
16:48is they need traders who lose money and
16:51really never make money or never make
16:53enough money to get over the the
16:55break-even point of money in money out
16:57with the firms. And so, the losing
16:59traders are never flagged. Like, you can
17:01go on Topstep, and you can blow as many
17:03accounts as you want. They'll never say
17:04anything.
17:05Never say anything. But, the moment that
17:08I'm consistently blowing accounts, but
17:10also taking payouts that cover way more
17:12than whatever the fees were, okay, now
17:14it's a problem. Now it's a problem, and
17:16now they want to stop me. It's like uh
17:20it's like casinos don't back off losing
17:22players. They're going only back off the
17:24winners. So, some firms may restrict you
17:27from trying to do this, and that's just
17:29because it works. It's because we're
17:30exploiting the prop firm business model.
17:34And I know there's people who are
17:36watching this who are going to be like,
17:37"This is terrible advice to give uh to
17:40give to people. Blah blah blah blah." I
17:42really don't care. If you want to do it
17:44this way or not, that's totally up to
17:46you. I'm just explaining to you how I
17:49trade prop firms to basically make over
17:52$10,000 a month net positive after fees.
17:56I'm explaining to you how I do that in
17:58case
18:00someone wants to do it, too. I'm sure
18:01many traders already know that you can
18:03do this, but
18:05maybe some traders don't, and that's
18:06just the purpose of this video. I'm just
18:08trying to make traders basically
18:10understand if you're trading prop firms
18:12and you have a system and it's
18:13profitable and you got the back track
18:16record basically to show that you know
18:18what you're doing,
18:20we shouldn't be afraid of blowing
18:21accounts. They're not real money. It's
18:23like 100 bucks. That fear of blowing
18:25accounts is what keeps traders small.
18:27That's what keeps you at the $2,000 a
18:30month in payouts or $4,000 a month in
18:33payouts. And controlled aggression is
18:36what scales payouts. The downside is
18:39capped, but the upside is going to
18:41compound with the more accounts that you
18:43get and the more payouts that you get.
18:45So, the way that the math works
18:48basically is if you're pulling
18:50consistent five-figure months with prop
18:53firms, the number of accounts required
18:56for you to blow to go net negative on
18:59the month becomes totally unrealistic.
19:01Let's say last month, okay?
19:03Last month, I was up over $11,000 with
19:06Topstep. If their accounts are $89, do
19:10you know how many accounts I I would
19:11have to blow like 100 accounts to lose
19:14all my profits? It just doesn't make
19:15sense anymore. It's not going to happen.
19:17There's no way I'm going to blow 100
19:19accounts and not get a single payout.
19:20So, the math is going to protect you at
19:23scale. Now again, this is the one thing
19:25that I need to mention because I know
19:27some people are going to watch this and
19:28be like
19:30this guy's a [ __ ] idiot. Sure,
19:32whatever. But, this is just one path.
19:35This is just one path that you can take
19:37to trade prop firms once you have a
19:39system to try and
19:42take as much money from them as you can.
19:44It's not the path. It's not I'm not
19:47saying that you have to trade this way.
19:49I'm not saying this is the only way to
19:50be successful with prop firms because
19:52it's not. It's just one path. It's not
19:54required to succeed. It's just a way to
19:56extract value, but it requires
19:59discipline, experience, and honesty. And
20:02again, if you use this incorrectly
20:05or you're going to try and do this, but
20:07you've never gotten payouts before, you
20:10will get absolutely destroyed.
20:12You're You're going to run up a credit
20:14card bill or whatever that you cannot
20:17pay off.
20:19Because
20:20you don't you don't get payouts. So, why
20:23would you do this? So, don't do this.
20:25I'm just saying that once you understand
20:26the game that we're playing, you get to
20:28choose how you play it. And this is
20:30spelled wrong. Let me fix that. But, you
20:33get to choose how you play it. And this
20:34is how I want to play it. Now, why do I
20:38choose to do it this way? Some people
20:40are going to sit here and say, "Oh,
20:42well, if you really had an edge or if
20:45you really knew how to trade, then you
20:47wouldn't be churning evals and sim
20:49farming."
20:51Well, I say that we don't know how long
20:53prop firms are going to be around for.
20:55We don't know when regulation might step
20:57in and completely change the the the
21:00process of how
21:02prop trading works. Who knows? Maybe
21:04regulation steps in and they remove the
21:06idea of sim funds and now it's literally
21:08just eval and live account and the evals
21:11become more expensive and the evals
21:13become harder to pass so like two stage
21:15or three stage or whatever. I don't know
21:17what the what the future holds. So what
21:22why would I sit here and slowly try and
21:25grow a SIM account? Why would I sit here
21:27and slowly try and grow a demo account?
21:31Doesn't make any sense. I'm going to
21:32aggressively
21:34attack how I've been doing it and try
21:37and extract as much money as possible
21:40and then eventually you just go and fund
21:42your own account.
21:43But for the time being with the way that
21:45the rules are and the way that the cost
21:47is, it just makes sense. It just makes
21:50sense to try and exploit it. It has
21:52nothing to do with like oh well if you
21:55really knew how to trade you wouldn't
21:56have to do that like
21:58no. I guarantee you that a lot of the
22:01gurus that you see online and the people
22:04posting their payouts,
22:06I don't know if you've noticed this but
22:07not a lot of people talk about how much
22:09they're actually spending on prop firms.
22:11I'm sure
22:12they're using the very same system and
22:16if you were to actually look at how much
22:18someone gets in payouts and then how
22:19much they're actually paying to the prop
22:21firms,
22:23you're going to realize
22:24that majority of the people who are
22:26doing this successfully are very
22:28aggressive when it comes to this type of
22:30stuff, when it comes to trading the
22:31evals.
22:32But it's just one way to do it. You
22:34don't need to do it. You can be
22:35successful bro. You can just sit here,
22:37you can take a month on your eval, you
22:39can take two months on your funded and
22:41you can kill it. Sure.
22:44But I don't do that. I do this and
22:45that's just the purpose of this video.
22:48So if you have any questions, feel free
22:50to ask me. I've been doing it. I'm still
22:52going to do it.
22:54Focused Traders program's not going to
22:55stop me. Just going to go to a different
22:57firm.
22:58I'm going to continue to do it until I
23:00can't. That's it. I'll catch you guys
23:02next time. Peace.

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