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Why Europe is still unsure on air conditioning despite record heatwaves | The Global Story — Transcript

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0:00How did air conditioning become part of
0:02the culture wars? When you walk anywhere
0:06in the United States in the heat of the
0:08summer, pretty much any shop or building
0:11is chilly, freezing even. In the United
0:14States, air conditioning has become
0:16expected. Not just in shops or
0:19workplaces, but also in homes. Nearly
0:2190% of US homes have AC, but it's far
0:25less common in Europe, which has been
0:27experiencing recordbreaking
0:30temperatures this summer, especially in
0:34France, where the question over whether
0:35to have air conditioning or not have air
0:37conditioning has sparked a pretty fierce
0:40political debate, which has reached
0:42boiling point. From the BBC, I'm Tristan
0:44Redman in London, and this is the global
0:48story on YouTube.
0:54So, a bit later in the podcast, we're
0:56going to be speaking to one of the hosts
0:58of the BBC's Climate Question podcast.
1:01But before that, we're zooming in on
1:03France with a guest that you probably
1:05know pretty well by now, Tristan
1:07Redmond, host of the Global Story.
1:09>> Hello.
1:10Thank you for inviting me on your show,
1:12Zumi.
1:13>> Well, actually, it's your show, but I'm
1:15happy to happy to talk to you about what
1:17an interesting topic, isn't it? air
1:19conditioning. It might seem innocuous,
1:22Tristan, but I think you and I know it
1:24is anything but.
1:25>> It is anything but.
1:26>> I can tell you on this side of the
1:28Atlantic, there has been so much media
1:30coverage of late, not just about the
1:32heat wave in the US, but about air
1:34conditioning and the lack thereof in
1:36Europe, and there are a lot of strong
1:38feelings.
1:39>> There are strong feelings um on all
1:43sides probably, right? I want to give
1:45you just a taste of the headlines in
1:47some of the main publications here.
1:49There was an editorial in the Washington
1:51Post that claimed that European
1:53hostility towards air conditioning is
1:55suicidal.
1:57>> Um, a Wall Street Journal editorial
1:59called alternative cooling solutions
2:01green virtue signaling. Uh, New York
2:04magazine called the debate in Europe
2:06bewildering. There's been a lot of focus
2:08on the picture in France. And Tristan,
2:10you live in Paris, so paint this picture
2:12for us then. What is it like to live in
2:14Paris during a heat wave?
2:15>> Well, it can be a nightmare. It doesn't
2:17cool down really very much at night
2:19because there's a lot of stone uh a lot
2:22of heavy stone buildings and the they
2:25just radiate heat at night. Uh and
2:28people get used to um this feeling. You
2:32you sleep with your windows open because
2:33you most likely don't have air
2:34conditioning. And the feeling of being
2:37in Paris in the summer is the feeling of
2:40listening and hearing all of your
2:42neighbors and all the things that
2:43they're doing as you try to go to sleep.
2:45So sometimes they're cooking, sometimes
2:47they're arguing, sometimes they're
2:48snoring, some a lot of the time they're
2:50having sex.
2:51>> Charming.
2:51>> Yeah. Well, yes and no. Sometime it's
2:54charming for a very short period of time
2:55and then it gets a bit much. I would say
2:58that the conversation that happens
3:00inside my family is something like a
3:03microcosm of the conversation about air
3:06conditioning maybe all the way across
3:09Europe. So just to give you an example
3:11of like me and my wife. So a couple of
3:14years ago we invested in a very um
3:17shoddy little air conditioning unit. Now
3:20in in the United States you laugh at it.
3:22It's barely big enough to cool one room.
3:24Um but we put it in our bedroom and then
3:27on really hot nights um my daughters,
3:30two of them will come in and sleep in
3:32the room with us. So there are four of
3:33us huddling in in in one room. But the
3:37difference between my wife and I comes
3:38from the fact that I grew up in the
3:40United States, so I I'm quite attached
3:42to air conditioning as a concept. So, I
3:45will sneak down the corridor like maybe
3:47two or three hours before we're going to
3:49go to bed and I'll turn on the air
3:50conditioning and I'll close the door in
3:52the bedroom because I want the room to
3:54be cool when we come to bed. And if my
3:56wife gleans that I have done this, she
4:00will tend to then sneak down the
4:01corridor and then turn it off again
4:03because she thinks I'm being
4:04irresponsible. And she'll look at me and
4:07she will think that I am some sort of
4:09proflegate wastrol. uh and I will look
4:13at her and think that she is preaching
4:15at me and that's those those are the
4:17divisions uh that exist. Um and that you
4:20can extrapolate throughout European
4:22society in some ways.
4:24>> Yeah. So why has the debate do you think
4:26been so loud this year?
4:28>> Well, I think the reason ultimately is
4:31change. Europe is changing. Um climate
4:34change is a real thing as a continent.
4:37It's
4:38temperatures are creeping up faster than
4:41any other continent on Earth.
4:43Historically, you haven't needed air
4:46conditioning in Europe. So, as recently
4:48as 20 years ago, when when I lived in
4:50Paris, there would be, you know, maybe
4:52five or six nights a year where it was
4:54unbearably hot, so it wasn't really
4:55worth getting air conditioning. Now, it
4:57can be weeks and weeks at a stretch. Let
4:59me run you through, Sunumi, some of the
5:01things that have happened this spring
5:04and summer because it started in spring.
5:06So the first heat wave was in May which
5:08is very early. There was a second 11-day
5:12heat wave in June. A lot of schools and
5:14hospitals sumi are not airond
5:16conditioned. Thousands of schools have
5:18had to close. Thousands more had to
5:21adjust their schedules. Uh at the
5:23beginning of July, the French National
5:26Public Health Agency said that it
5:29recorded an increase of more than 2,000
5:31deaths during the last week of June. We
5:35don't know how many of those were
5:36attributed to the heat, but that's 2,000
5:38excess deaths in that period. All of
5:40this then transformed into a political
5:43debate. The French government, the
5:45government of Sebastian Lornu, who's the
5:47prime minister of Emanuel Macron, has
5:49been criticized for not doing enough.
5:51But political camps are kind of
5:53coalescing on this issue. So Meen Le Pen
5:57notably, uh, who is a hardright leader
6:00in France, the favorite to become the
6:02next president of France. So her party
6:05has traditionally been climatoskeepic as
6:07they would call themselves. Now they're
6:09saying they're sort of saying climate
6:11change is a real thing and we need to
6:13deal with it and the way we need to deal
6:14with it is by investing properly in air
6:17conditioning. Her opponent on the hard
6:20left is a guy called Jeanluke Melosh who
6:24he he's taken the opposite position. He
6:26says climate change is a real thing. Um
6:28and it's going to become worse if people
6:31especially in cities where lots of
6:33people are concentrated together. Uh
6:35start using air conditioning um a lot.
6:38Uh and the people who would be affected
6:40most in cities would be the poorest
6:43people who cannot afford air
6:44conditioning because all you're doing
6:45when you take air in put air
6:47conditioning into your building is
6:49you're taking heat from inside your
6:50building and you're shoving it outside
6:52the building. And for the first time,
6:54the leader of the Green Party in France
6:56is a woman called Marin Tondulier.
6:58She has started saying that the
7:01situation is so serious that air
7:03conditioning needs to be part of the
7:06solution, which is not something you
7:08would have expected uh just a few years
7:11ago. And it's been a kind of whole
7:12political ding-dong ever since then,
7:14really. I wonder Tristan, what do people
7:16in France then think of the US and how
7:18Americans are addicted to really cold
7:22indoor spaces in the summer?
7:23>> So, there was a headline that you read
7:25read out earlier on which I'd just like
7:27to um just address. So, it was an
7:30editorial that called alternative
7:32cooling solutions quote green virtue
7:37signaling. So, you know, I can't speak
7:40for all Europeans, but I don't know
7:42about that. I mean, I'm not sure that
7:43many Europeans are choosing uh to
7:46swelter in their houses just to prove a
7:49point to people in the United States,
7:50but it is fascinating um to us over here
7:53in Europe that people in the United
7:54States are so interested in this
7:56question. Why do you think it is? You
7:58know, I'm in two minds and two hearts
8:00about this because I spend a decade and
8:02a half living in Berlin, uh which is
8:04pretty similar to what you described to
8:06Paris. There is no AC to be found
8:08anywhere. That is partly because in
8:11Germany you also haven't seen the type
8:13of temperatures that Europe is
8:15experiencing now. In the past you would
8:17have as you said maybe a week of really
8:19hot temperatures and that was dealt with
8:22with open windows. Um the Germans have
8:24something called lift and lift which is
8:26creating a cross breeze by opening
8:28several windows. Uh and that's how you
8:31try to cool down a space even if it's
8:32hot outside. Um here in the US and I
8:35grew up here and have come back here a
8:37few years ago. um there is a sense that
8:40convenience is the most important thing
8:42and why would you suffer in the heat uh
8:45when you can be cool inside. So I think
8:48part of what the concern is I would say
8:51about Europeans here is a bit of
8:52headscratching that bewildering um title
8:55I think describes it quite well. Why
8:58would you want to sit through unbearable
9:00heat and try to fall asleep with all
9:01your windows open in the summer and not
9:04be able to cool down when there is a
9:05solution there ready at hand? And
9:08actually that perception also goes along
9:11with that virtue signaling. Um there are
9:14Americans and I've talked to many of
9:15them who say well the Europeans just
9:17think they're better than us that they
9:19don't need air conditioning and um that
9:22they can be more green that than we can
9:24here in the US. So I think it's kind of
9:26those two things together. I think one
9:28point Americans do make is when you have
9:31such extreme heat and here in Washington
9:33DC there are days where you simply could
9:35not function with without air
9:37conditioning. Um but that would really
9:40uh reduce the productivity of society
9:43here because in the summer that means
9:44there are people who perhaps could not
9:46go to work maybe their kids could not go
9:48to school so they would have to stay
9:49home.
9:50>> That kind of conversation is being had
9:52in France as well. So Maren Le Pen says
9:55that it's an economic imperative uh to
9:59cool temperatures down for people in
10:01France. And you know if you listen to
10:03people on the endless radio debates that
10:05are raging on this topic right now,
10:07there will often be people who say okay
10:09yes installing air conditioning in
10:12buildings which are very old uh and not
10:14meant to have air conditioning can be
10:16extortionately expensive. But what can
10:18be even more expensive is losing
10:21productivity in the economy. So, we're
10:23just trying to make the best of a
10:24difficult situation over here because
10:26things have suddenly got a lot hotter
10:28than they used to be and we're doing the
10:30best we can.
10:31>> I think Americans would be very
10:33understanding of that.
10:34>> Well, Sumi, in all of this, one of the
10:36questions is, is air conditioning
10:39actually a one-sizefits-all solution
10:42that works for everything? I wanted to
10:44know a little bit more about this,
10:45Sunumi. So, I got in touch with our
10:47colleague Greer Jackson, who's the host
10:50of the BBC podcast, The Climate
10:53Question, and I wanted to start off by
10:55asking Grae if she actually had air
10:58conditioning herself, and she told me
11:01that she had um a much more unusual
11:03solution to the problem.
11:04>> I have a fan.
11:05>> Yeah.
11:05>> So, I'm not without entirely without
11:08means. If it gets really hot, I sleep
11:09under a wet sheet. That's my other
11:11technique. But when I was pregnant and
11:14having to work, I was living in a 70s
11:16house that was really poorly insulated.
11:18So I used to um sit with a big bucket of
11:21water under the desk with my feet in the
11:24bucket of water. And that was the best
11:26thing I could find to keep cool and do
11:29some work.
11:30>> Does that work?
11:31>> It works really, really well. Yeah.
11:32>> Our our American listeners right now are
11:35going like, "What are these people
11:36doing? They've got buckets of water
11:40under their desks." All right. Well,
11:42Greer, it's so great to have you with us
11:43here at the global story, as you know,
11:45we look at stories where the world and
11:47America meet. And um one of the things
11:50that has amazed some of the Americans on
11:52our team is that some of the Europeans
11:55on our team don't have air conditioning
11:58at home. Um and somehow this summer it
12:02feels like air conditioning has become
12:04part of the conversation in a way that I
12:07don't really remember. Have you noticed
12:10more people buying air conditioning
12:11units in the UK?
12:14>> Somewhat. I mean, people have mentioned
12:17it to me, but mostly I think because
12:19they're British, they just complain
12:20about how hot it is. And if they got air
12:22con, then they wouldn't be able to
12:24complain about how hot it is. We love
12:25complaining about the weather here.
12:27>> Um, that's sort of anecdotally, air
12:29conditioning units have been on the rise
12:32for a long time. I was looking at some
12:34data. uh 1990 to 2016 saw a four-fold
12:38increase in air conditioning units sold
12:41uh during that period. That's globally.
12:43So people
12:44>> four fourfold of not very much could
12:47also be not very much or is it genuinely
12:48a lot now?
12:49>> I mean I mean if you look at China there
12:51are hundreds of millions of units
12:53installed. It's the same in the US. Um
12:56South Korea, Japan are sort of third and
12:58fourth on the list. And then there are
13:00some emerging markets where maybe
13:02something like 27 million units are
13:04installed in places like India and
13:06Brazil. So there are still hundreds of
13:09millions of units. Granted, there are
13:12many more people than that. Many people
13:14of which you would obviously never be
13:16able to afford air conditioning or might
13:18not even have access to electricity. So
13:20um that kind of puts it into
13:22perspective. But that that is expected
13:25to rise. That projection if you like of
13:27air conditioning sales is only going to
13:29go up and up. I have some data here that
13:31the UN says the need for air con could
13:33triple by 2050.
13:35>> I think probably deep down in the
13:37British uh psyche there is the idea that
13:40uh succumbing to air conditioning is
13:43somehow um shows weak moral fiber.
13:48But what are some I mean apart from the
13:50kind of um sense of guilt that some
13:53British people or Europeans feel, what
13:56are the arguments against using air
13:59conditioning?
14:00>> Well, it's expensive to install, right?
14:02I think that puts a lot of people off,
14:04especially when we're living in a cost
14:05of living crisis. Energy prices are
14:07soaring. So, expensive to buy, expensive
14:10to run. But if you look at the
14:11environmental side, there are also some
14:13issues around the climate. So, these air
14:16conditioning units use refrigerant
14:17gases, things like CFC's. Um, and those
14:21if they leak are really, really potent
14:24planet warming gases or if they're not
14:26disposed of at end of life, they're
14:28really problematic. There is quite a big
14:30push for those to be edged out or phased
14:33out and more climate friendly gases used
14:35instead. But the main bulk of emissions
14:38that come from air conditioners are
14:40actually how they're powered, the
14:41electricity they use. So that really
14:44depends on how the grid is powered and
14:47where you live in the world. So if you
14:49take two air conditioning units and you
14:51run one in China and one in Brazil, they
14:54all have totally different carbon
14:57footprints or climate footprints. So in
14:59China, that's because around 50% of the
15:02grid is powered with coal. So huge
15:05amount of fossil fuel energy and coal is
15:08the dirtiest of the fossil fuels that we
15:10have. Brazil on the other hand 80%
15:13renewables on the grid. So the carbon
15:15footprint is far far less. So it really
15:17depends on where you are in the world.
15:19So environment cost those are the sort
15:22of the main sort of cons if you like.
15:25But there's a trade-off because people
15:27need to stay cool. People can't live in
15:29some of the conditions that they're
15:31experiencing. I mean India in May was
15:33seeing exper sort of 40 50°. I mean it's
15:38that's unlivable really. But in theory,
15:40it would be possible to have a
15:42carbonneutral
15:44uh air conditioning system in your house
15:46if all of the energy that you burnt in
15:48your house were renewable.
15:50>> Yes, in theory. I mean, nearly zero. It
15:53depends on the refrigerant gases that
15:54we've talked about, but in theory, you
15:56could. The UN has actually published a
15:58report last year at um COP, the big
16:01climate conference that said we could
16:03get to nearly zero emissions via in the
16:06cooling sphere. So there's lots of
16:08solutions to be had, but it's also just
16:10not about, you know, how we power our
16:12grids and what gases we use. There are
16:15lots of solutions that help us bring
16:17down the amount of power and electricity
16:20we need. Because don't forget, if we
16:23install so much air conditioning, we're
16:26going to have to grow our grids
16:27exponentially to keep up with that power
16:30demand. I mean maybe 20% more of the
16:33power that we're using today in 2050
16:35just for cooling alone. And there's lots
16:37of other industries that are going to
16:39need renewable power like cement and
16:41steel and the aviation industry to
16:44produce sustainable fuels. So there's
16:45going to be much higher demand on the
16:47grid. So we need to reduce our energy
16:49consumption and make it much more energy
16:51efficient when we do need it.
16:53>> Are air conditioning units as bad for
16:56the environment as some people would
16:59have us believe? So, it's hard to weigh
17:01in whether they're really bad or not
17:03because, like we've said, it depends on
17:04how your grid is being powered. It
17:06depends on how energy efficient your
17:08unit is or even the standards in your
17:10country are very different depending on
17:12government laws and rules. So, I think
17:14it's it's hard to say whether it's quote
17:17unquote good or bad because I think it's
17:20also necessary for a lot of people.
17:22people cannot live at these sorts of
17:25temperatures and indeed lots of people
17:27die in these sorts of temperatures.
17:30>> What are some of the alternatives? I
17:32mean um you suggested putting a tub of
17:35cold water under the desk. Um but for
17:38people who don't want to or cannot
17:41install air conditioning as we enter
17:44times of the year where it's just
17:46unbearably hot, what are some of the
17:48best tips and tricks?
17:50Well, I want to zoom out a little bit if
17:52that's okay because I don't want the
17:54onus just to be on what individuals
17:56should or could do because there's lots
17:58that town planners and governments can
18:00do. So, I talked about before how the UN
18:02said we could get emissions down to
18:04nearly zero from cooling systems and
18:06that is through energy efficiency as I
18:08mentioned, but also how we build our
18:10cities. Um, that's where the majority of
18:12us live. And there's also something
18:14called the urban heat island effect
18:15which is where our cities are much much
18:17hotter than the surrounding areas. And
18:20that's because uh we use lots of
18:22materials like concrete and ashvault
18:25which are dark so they absorb more
18:26sunlight but because of the nature of
18:28the material they also hold on to that
18:30heat much much more. There's much less
18:33vegetation which makes it much much
18:35warmer. So cities are just much much
18:38hotter as a result. So why don't we
18:40think about redesigning and rebuilding
18:41our cities or when we're building new
18:43cities or extending them. How do we
18:44design cities in a way that are much
18:47more climactically comfortable? And one
18:49of the main solutions is green spaces.
18:52>> Lots of co- benefits. You know, they
18:54keep our air cleaner. They make us happy
18:56as well, but they also keep us cooler
18:58because they provide shade. And all the
19:00plants do something called evapo
19:02transpiration, which is basically a
19:03fancy way of plants sweating. Fancy way
19:06of saying that. So there's that sort of
19:08level of stuff, but also the buildings
19:10that we build. Think about a glass
19:12skyscraper in the middle of Dubai.
19:15That's going to require a lot of cooling
19:17because glass is not a very good
19:19material for thermal regulation.
19:21Conversely, in somewhere like the UK in
19:23winter, it also needs a lot of heating.
19:25So how do we build our buildings uh that
19:28are much more sort of thermally
19:30efficient? And we know how to do this.
19:32It's called passive cooling. It's where
19:33we use natural solutions to cool our
19:35homes. And we've been doing it for
19:37hundreds of years. So, have you been to
19:40Morocco before? Yes. So, you've wal
19:43stood outside and then walked into a
19:44Riad those beautiful shaded courtyards
19:48and I bet you noticed the temperature
19:50difference.
19:51>> That is a way that you can design a
19:53building really cleverly so that it's
19:55cool. And again, that's water features
19:57help cool the air plants and using
19:58shading, thick walls as well help keep
20:01the cooler the heat up and narrow
20:03windows. In Egypt, they use those sorts
20:06of techniques. Um, but they also use
20:08something called a wind catcher, which
20:10are really, really beautiful. So, on the
20:12tops of buildings, they have almost like
20:14a gazebo, like they're beautiful.
20:16They're often beautiful wooden lattice
20:17work or brick work, and it's got lots of
20:19holes. And so, as the wind blows across
20:21the top of the city, the wind catches
20:23are then caught in these in these little
20:26gazeos, and they get diverted, the air
20:28gets diverted down into the building. So
20:30it keeps it's keeps ventilation but it
20:32also keeps that cool air ventilating
20:34around the building and keeping the
20:36building cool. So there's lots of
20:38interesting ideas about how you can do
20:40this at low cost with materials that are
20:42widely available that don't cost the
20:44moon to do. Um so that's sort of how you
20:47can think about it top level. But there
20:49are lots of things that we can do and
20:51I've gone out and done and seen lots of
20:53interesting things including would you
20:55believe it painting windows with yogurt.
20:58>> Go on. dairy or non-dairy, although
21:01there's probably a slightly lower carbon
21:03footprint to the non-dairy version. But
21:05basically, I met a guy called Tom who's
21:08been looking at lowcost solutions to
21:11stopping heat traveling through windows.
21:13And he found that with yogurt and a bit
21:16of a paint roller, he painted yogurt
21:18onto the window. And he then measured
21:21that that yogurt film could reflect 80%
21:25of the sun's thermal energy which meant
21:28that your room was much much cooler as a
21:31result. I was really skeptical because I
21:33was like smell flies you know whatever
21:36no flies no smell he says and when it's
21:40the heat wave saver you can just
21:42>> I mean you say that but we're not doing
21:46a very good job of convincing our
21:48American cousins that we are not insane
21:52>> that's true I mean something I like to
21:54do and I I learned this I was doing a
21:57bit of reporting um about the little ice
21:59age which was conversely a very cold
22:01time in England. It's where have you
22:03ever seen pictures of the frost fairs on
22:04the river temps where it freezes over?
22:06Yes. That period of time and this
22:08building called Hardwick Hall in the
22:10north of England was built. It's it's a
22:12stunning piece of architecture. Um and
22:16what was really interesting about that
22:17is they had designed the building to be
22:20used based on the sun's position in the
22:22sky. So kitchen in the cold northern
22:26area, they have their breakfast where
22:28the sun rises and their dinner where the
22:30sun sets. So they literally followed the
22:32sun around the house.
22:34>> Yes.
22:34>> And I then went home and I moved my desk
22:38where I spend the majority of my day to
22:40follow the sun in winter and to hide
22:43from the sun in summer. And I I can
22:45notice there's about a two°ree
22:47temperature difference from moving from
22:49back and forth from my house. So you can
22:52do these like little weird quirky things
22:54if you can if they're available to you.
22:56and all these little differences. They
22:58might not sound like much, but I think
23:00collectively they can add up.
23:01>> We've been talking a little bit about
23:03France in this episode and last week
23:06Marin Tondur who's the leader of the
23:09French Green Party um who you know the
23:13orthodox thinking would be that they
23:15would be against aircon. Now Marine
23:18Tondelia acknowledged that it's now
23:19becoming necessary to have air
23:22conditioning as part of the solution. Do
23:25you think we're at a turning point in
23:27Europe?
23:28>> Quite possibly. I mean, if you look back
23:31over the last couple of decades, um, one
23:35statistic I saw from the UN was
23:37something like 489,000
23:39people have died as a result of heat
23:41related deaths. I was I found that
23:43figure shocking. 489,000 people. That's
23:45nearly half an half a million people
23:48dying from heat every single year. That
23:51is every single year. huge in in I was I
23:53was so shocked to read that and so
23:57actually it's very hard to put a cost of
24:02life against a cost to the environment
24:04it you know so there are always going to
24:06be there are always going to be
24:07trade-offs at least in the short term
24:09and maybe you know the raising awareness
24:11of the fact that climate change is
24:14making heat waves more intense more
24:16frequent we've seen this one massive
24:18heat wave in June and we're in the midst
24:21of the next one. So, I wouldn't be
24:23surprised if air con, at least in the UK
24:26and Europe, became a much more normal
24:28convention, but we'll have to wait and
24:31see.
24:31>> Gra, thank you so much.
24:33>> You're welcome.
24:33>> It's been great to have you.
24:34>> It's been nice to be here.
24:35>> That was Grae Jackson, host of the BBC
24:38podcast, The Climate Question, which is
24:40also available here on YouTube. And
24:43that's it from us. The Global Story is
24:44also an audio pod. We're available every
24:47weekday on BBC.com or wherever you
24:49listen. Thanks for tuning in. We'll be
24:51back again tomorrow. Cheerio.

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