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Why Christians Stay Poor And How The Bible Calls You To Build Wealth | With Lee Jenkins — Transcript

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0:00Why is it so important that the church
0:02catches this revelation about God's
0:04desire to prosper his people
0:07financially? I grew up in the inner city
0:09of Atlanta. My dad was an alcoholic. So,
0:12growing up, money was scarce. I did not
0:16know anything about the stock market,
0:19saving, investing. What I was taught was
0:22how to survive.
0:24>> I was around 12 years old, we were able
0:25to move into our first home. We moved
0:28into a middle-class, predominantly black
0:31area in Atlanta. This area had the
0:34brightest minds, literally, in the
0:37country. Hank Aaron, Andrew Young, John
0:40Lewis, All-Star NBA basketball player
0:43named Walt Frazier. During college, I
0:46gave my life to the Lord, completely. I
0:48got drafted by the New York Giants in
0:50the NFL. The only thing I needed to do
0:52is stay healthy, and I couldn't. I got
0:55put on injured reserve, had surgery,
0:57came back my second year, couldn't pass
0:59the physical. So, NFL for me stood not
1:02for long. As it relates to finances,
1:04cap, my dream had been crushed.
1:07>> Why did you choose business? The men and
1:09women we read about
1:11>> [music]
1:11>> throughout the Bible, some of the movers
1:14and shakers of the kingdom, did not get
1:18their attention or rise to the top based
1:21on so-called spiritual [music] exploits.
1:25They were
1:26successful
1:28doing practical things that got people's
1:31attention. I just thought that business
1:34would be my way to live out God's call
1:38in my life. I went into business, and
1:41God blew on it. He blessed me. In my
1:4430s, I hit the multi-millionaire status.
1:47Around 2005, after I'd been in the
1:50business over 20 years, I started
1:54feeling
1:55discontent
1:56with my life. The question the Holy
1:58Spirit [music] asked me, is this what
2:00you want to do for the rest of your
2:02life? Wow. When you look at Jesus'
2:05ministry, do you find business
2:07principles in
2:09how he did ministry? Too many Christians
2:12are scared of wealth.
2:14And they don't understand the power of
2:17it and how it can be used for good.
2:20Therefore, they never maximize [music]
2:23their own wealth-building potential
2:25because deep down inside they think
2:27something is wrong with building wealth.
2:30Nobody listens to poor people. Jeez.
2:33They may be wise. They may have great
2:37wisdom, but they don't have this one
2:39thing and that is
2:46>> [music]
2:56[music]
3:04>> Hey gang, welcome back to Directed Life.
3:05This is the official show to help you
3:07live a life directed by the Holy Spirit
3:09to find, fund, and fulfill your calling
3:12to flip culture upside down. Today's
3:14guest is super fun and super interesting
3:17for me because I've been watching this
3:19guy's content for the past handful of
3:21months. He just blew up out of nowhere,
3:23but he hasn't been nowhere. Like this
3:26guy is a builder. He is a pastor, he's
3:29an entrepreneur, but God has given him a
3:32grace and wisdom in the area of
3:35financial stewardship for the kingdom of
3:37God that is so important for the church
3:40>> [music]
3:40>> and for business leaders to understand
3:43if we are going to steward our resources
3:46to grow and our wealth to grow in our
3:48prosperity, not for our our own gain or
3:50greed, but for the sake of stewarding
3:54that and investing it and advancing the
3:56kingdom of God on Earth [music] in these
3:58last days before Jesus comes back. If
4:00you've enjoyed any of the other content
4:02we've done on this podcast around
4:04business, around identity, around
4:06finances, around prosperity, this is
4:08going to be another one that you're
4:09going to want to put in your portfolio.
4:12And then stick around to the very end
4:13because he gives a masterclass of what
4:15are the most important things that you
4:17need to be focusing on, investing in,
4:19and stewarding in order to take your
4:21resources to the next level for the
4:22glory of God. So, enjoy this episode
4:25with my new friend, the stewardship
4:28coach, Pastor Lee Jenkins. I think it's
4:31fair for people to know that you have
4:35the Lord has really just completely
4:36blown up your influence on Instagram and
4:40Tik Tok over the past couple of years.
4:42And you have some of the most
4:45grounded, yet
4:49I mean, revelatory understanding of what
4:52the Bible says around finances, around
4:54biblical prosperity. And I want to get
4:56into your story in a second, but first I
4:58want you just to speak into that. Like,
5:00why do you think
5:02Why do you think this topic, number one,
5:05is so controversial in the church right
5:07now? And then number two, why is it so
5:10important that the church catches this
5:12revelation about God about God's desire
5:15to prosper his people financially? Thank
5:19you for that question. Yes, it's an
5:20incredible question. A very
5:23very important question. Uh number one,
5:26I believe it's
5:28not talked about enough. So, the reason
5:31that my content is unique is because it
5:35really should not be unique. Mhm. And
5:37the reason it should not be unique is
5:39because people should be talking about
5:41it all the time. Why should people be
5:43talking about it all the time? Because
5:45it's all through the Bible, from the Old
5:47Testament to the New Testament. There
5:49are over 2,350
5:51verses in the Bible that deal with how
5:54to handle money and possessions. I
5:56believe it's 16 out of the 38 parables
5:58or so deal with how to handle money and
6:01possessions. Jesus said more about it
6:03than he did about faith, than he did
6:05about heaven and hell. Yet, when it
6:08comes to this subject in the context of
6:11the church, we're scared of it. We view
6:14[snorts] money as carnal, as secular,
6:18but it is spiritual. It is just as
6:21spiritual as praying and fasting and
6:24worshipping. So, it is very important,
6:28but the reason we don't treat it as such
6:30is just because people have a whole lot
6:32of hang-ups. And then in terms of my
6:34passion, I like to say in the land of
6:37the blind, a one-eyed man is king. Mhm.
6:41In other words, if everybody else is
6:42blind, all you need is one eye and you
6:45can be an expert.
6:46>> That's how I feel.
6:47>> Yeah, man. So, I don't
6:49Yeah, [snorts]
6:50God has blessed me with some insights
6:53and some experience,
6:55but I just think it's an area that most
6:58people don't study.
7:00It's an area that we allow the world to
7:04dictate to us instead of us
7:08handling and managing things God's way.
7:12So, that's my story, man. I I
7:15come from a financial background. I love
7:17the Lord. I love the Bible. I look at
7:19the Bible not only as a word of God, as
7:23the word of God,
7:24but I look at the Bible as my life
7:27playbook.
7:29Like a football player has a playbook.
7:31And when I say playbook, I mean for my
7:34finances, for my marriage, for my
7:37friendships, obviously for my faith, for
7:40everything. So,
7:42You said that the investment part is
7:44part of your story, but people need to
7:46know the the beginning of your story.
7:48>> Yeah. Because you didn't come out of
7:51your mother's womb just making it rain.
7:53No. No, like there were you actually had
7:56some really difficult times financially
7:58growing up. I'm sure there's going to be
8:00a lot of people who relate to this. So,
8:02I want you to take us all the way back.
8:03Like, tell us how you grew up in Atlanta
8:05and what that was like. I grew up in the
8:07inner city of Atlanta the first 12 years
8:10of my life. We lived in
8:13an apartment, two-bedroom, one-bathroom
8:16apartment, but we used to refer to it as
8:19the projects, okay? Most families who
8:22lived around us were happy, but there
8:25was not a lot of money. In fact, it was
8:28very common in my family to
8:32worry about where the next good meal was
8:36going to come from. We often were uh
8:41threatened with or actually experienced
8:44the utilities being cut off. Now, one of
8:47the reasons for that was because my dad
8:50was an alcoholic and he could not keep a
8:53steady job. My mother was very good with
8:55money and very diligent. She was a
8:57school teacher, but when you have one
8:59spouse that's very irresponsible,
9:02which alcoholism will do, and then the
9:05other spouse who's faithful, it still
9:06causes some problems. So, growing up,
9:10um money was scarce.
9:13Growing up, I did not know anything
9:16about the stock market, about saving,
9:19about investing. What I was taught was
9:22how to survive. Mhm. And it was a more
9:25survival mentality than a planning and
9:29strategic mentality.
9:31We finally
9:33when I was around 12 years old, Uh, it
9:35was a good season in my dad's life, so
9:38he it was a he was able to keep a job
9:40for a while, and we were able to move
9:42into our first home. And so, we moved
9:44into a middle-class, predominantly black
9:47area in Atlanta.
9:49And it was the best thing that ever
9:51happened to my life because this
9:53particular area had the brightest minds,
9:57literally, in the country,
9:59uh, within a 3-or-4-mile radius of me. I
10:03mean, in a lot of different areas. I
10:05mean, Hank Aaron, uh, the home run king,
10:09yeah, lived, man, just a few miles from
10:11me. I haven't heard that name in a long
10:13time.
10:13>> Yeah, man. He was my boyhood idol.
10:16>> Wow.
10:16>> Yeah, Andrew Young, who was one of Dr.
10:19Martin Luther King's lieutenants, uh,
10:21lived a few miles from me. John Lewis,
10:23who was another, uh, lieutenant of Dr.
10:26Martin Luther King Jr., uh, uh, All-Star
10:29NBA basketball player named Walt
10:31Frazier, lived close to me. Uh, the
10:34mayor of Atlanta, who the Atlanta
10:37airport, which is the busiest airport in
10:39the world, Jackson Hartsfield Airport.
10:43Well, that Jackson was the mayor of
10:45Atlanta, the first black mayor of
10:47Atlanta, and uh, his name was Maynard
10:50Jackson. And that airport is named after
10:52him because he did so much for the city.
10:55I got a chance to get to know some of
10:57the people who I just mentioned, and it
11:00had an indelible,
11:03uh, or made an indelible impression on
11:05my life as an athlete, as a student, as
11:09a person. And so, I got a chance to
11:12dream big when I was a teenager, and I
11:16also happened to be good in sports, and
11:18that helped. So, by the time I graduated
11:20from high school, I had, uh, close to 30
11:23scholarship offers from some of the
11:25biggest football programs in the nation,
11:28Ohio State, Michigan, Miami, Florida,
11:31Florida State, Georgia, Tennessee, and I
11:34could name others. I chose Tennessee.
11:37So, here's why that's significant, Cap.
11:39For a guy who grew up
11:42uh with hardly any money, struggling,
11:45and then I got a chance to see people
11:46with money,
11:48I thought sports was going to be my way
11:50out. I was going to make millions and
11:53finally all of my financial fears and
11:56worries would go away.
11:58And I was on that track. Went to the
12:01University of Tennessee.
12:03I became the starting cornerback,
12:05defensive back. By my sophomore year,
12:08there were guys who were older than me
12:10who had gotten drafted and were playing
12:12in the pros, and I knew I was just as
12:14good, if not better, than them. So, man,
12:17I had NFL written all over me. The only
12:21thing I needed to do is stay healthy,
12:24and I couldn't. I was always
12:26injury-prone,
12:27but I still played good enough where I
12:30got drafted by the New York Giants in
12:32the NFL. In fact, uh I got the call that
12:36night,
12:37and man, like anybody who's been
12:39dreaming of playing in the NFL, that was
12:41one of the most significant days of my
12:43life. Wow. It was incredible. But guess
12:46who called me? It was a first-year coach
12:49of the New York Giants. I'd never heard
12:51of him. Hardly anybody had heard of him.
12:53His name was Bill Parcells. No way.
12:56>> kidding you, man.
12:58>> And he called me up, "Hey, we just
12:59drafted you." Well, he said, "We believe
13:02if we can get you well,
13:04you'll be an All-Pro."
13:06I mean, he saw something in me. Wow.
13:08>> Bill Parcells. Never heard of the guy.
13:10So, then I go to I go to um mini-camp
13:13where where the rookies had to go, Yeah.
13:15and I meet the defensive coordinator,
13:19and this guy comes in the room,
13:22and his name was Bill Belichick. No way.
13:25>> [laughter]
13:26>> And nobody had heard of these guys, man.
13:28>> Wow. That's nice.
13:30>> So, the good and the bad. The good was I
13:32got a chance to spend a year under two
13:35of the not not just greatest football
13:37coaches, but two of the greatest leaders
13:41I'd ever been around. That was the good.
13:44And it rubbed off on me, I believe.
13:46The bad was I couldn't stay healthy.
13:48Uh I got put on injured reserve, had
13:50surgery, came back my second year,
13:52couldn't pass the physical, they finally
13:54let me go. And so NFL for me stood for
13:58for not for long. Okay.
14:01>> [clears throat]
14:01>> And because my stint, and it really
14:04wasn't a career, didn't last long.
14:07So, as it relates to finances, Cap,
14:10my dream had been crushed.
14:12Remember, I'm still remembering my
14:14childhood, struggling, getting utilities
14:17cut off,
14:19and I thought that was going to be my
14:21ticket
14:22to fame and fortune. So, I was
14:25devastated.
14:26And it was like I was running from pro
14:29poverty.
14:30I
14:32was struggling during that time because
14:33during college, I gave my life to the
14:35Lord completely. Grew up in church,
14:39had a fear of God, never smoked, never
14:42drank, but that was because I was an
14:44athlete, wasn't because I was a goody
14:46two-shoes type guy. I just had goals in
14:48my life and I didn't see how drinking
14:51and getting drunk and getting high was
14:53going to help me be a better athlete.
14:55So, I just stayed away from a lot of
14:56stuff.
14:58But I was still empty and I thought
14:59football and fame and fortune would fill
15:04that void. And in college,
15:06uh I realized that it would not. So,
15:09I went to a uh FCA Fellowship of
15:11Christian Athletes meeting, heard a guy
15:13giving his testimony who was an ex-pro
15:15football player, and he gave an
15:17invitation for all of you football guys.
15:20He was talking to our football team
15:23who have achieved a lot of success, but
15:25you're still empty.
15:28I want you to calm down right now
15:30and give your life to Jesus if you want
15:34to.
15:35I was the first guy
15:36that raised my hand and went down, and
15:38my life hasn't been the same since.
15:41So, when my football career ended,
15:44I didn't know if I was supposed to go
15:45into full-time ministry
15:48or business cuz I had this desire to be
15:52a businessman.
15:53>> Mhm.
15:54The people who I knew who were older
15:56than me, some of my mentors and some of
15:58the adults who had been around my life
16:01for a few years in college,
16:03um they told [clears throat] me, "Man,
16:05you ought to go into ministry. You're
16:07supposed to be a pastor."
16:09And then other people said, "Man, I
16:10think you'll be a great business
16:12person." I did not know I could do both.
16:15I thought either I had to be full-time
16:17pastoral ministry
16:20or I had to walk away from ministry
16:22completely and go into business.
16:25>> Mhm.
16:27Well, I chose business.
16:28Hey, we're going to get back to the
16:29episode in just 1 second, but if you're
16:31a business leader, you've built
16:33something meaningful, you are a leader
16:35worth following, you know that God has
16:38given you a message to share online, but
16:39you don't understand social media, you
16:41don't want to become an influencer, you
16:43don't have fancy gear, you don't have a
16:44ton of followers, but you do have a
16:46message worth sharing, and you do have
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17:45us and have gotten that step forward as
17:47well. Now, back to the episode. Why did
17:50you choose business?
17:52Because I didn't like what I saw
17:54[snorts]
17:56in ministry.
17:57Okay?
17:59I
18:01saw
18:02pastors
18:04and a lot of ministry people who I call
18:06extremely religious, meaning that they
18:09weren't practical um
18:13they
18:15they just weren't as as knowledgeable
18:19about some of the things
18:22of life that I was interested in, like
18:25the economy,
18:27like um When you say religious, it was
18:30like they were in a a bubble.
18:32>> Yeah. Yeah, they were in a cocoon.
18:34>> for a lot of pastors, unfortunately.
18:36>> Yeah, they were in a cocoon.
18:38And how about this?
18:40I've always been very driven.
18:42Remember, I'm a former athlete.
18:45And man, I was used to working out, used
18:47to pushing myself.
18:49And many of these guys
18:53m- the pastors I met, they were um
18:59they weren't very
19:01like I was about football.
19:04Wait, wait. What do you mean by that?
19:07They just They were like, "Well, if it's
19:09if it's God's will, then it's supposed
19:11to happen. Well, we'll just see what the
19:13Lord will say about it. And man, my
19:16whole philosophy was
19:18no, man, you get out there and you you
19:20make it happen. You know, you or you
19:23listen to God, you get the direction and
19:25you go full speed. So, I did not know
19:28that
19:30that that was kind of a theology of
19:33certain for for certain people.
19:35>> Sure. You know,
19:36um
19:37seeing what God is going to do. And I
19:39know we have to wait on the Lord for
19:40certain things. So, I just it it just
19:43slowed me down, you know, talking to
19:45these guys. I was just too I was more
19:47aggressive and I wanted to uh take over
19:50the world, man. Mhm.
19:52And little did I know
19:55that I found out later that is a good
19:58mentality.
19:59That the same way the world
20:03approaches
20:04making money,
20:07um advancing their calls,
20:11people in the kingdom should have the
20:14same approach,
20:16but
20:17a different reason for doing it.
20:20>> Yeah.
20:21And that's Luke 16, by the way.
20:24The shrewd
20:26uh
20:27steward
20:28who
20:31blew and and uh messed up his master's
20:34money.
20:35And his master said, "I'm going to fire
20:37you."
20:38And he went out and he asked people to
20:41pay off their debts or portions of it.
20:45And the master in the parable, instead
20:48of castigating or criticizing the
20:51steward, he commended him.
20:53He said, "Because your ingenuity, your
20:55aggressiveness
20:57and and and was was admirable." Then he
21:00made a statement, Jesus did.
21:03The children of the world
21:06are more shrewd in relation to their own
21:09kind than the children of God or the
21:13children of the kingdom.
21:15In other words, the way the world
21:17approaches what they do,
21:20we should approach what we do from a
21:22kingdom perspective and be just as
21:25aggressive,
21:26just as shrewd, just as strategic.
21:30So,
21:31I did not see people that aggressive
21:35who were pastors. To me, to me they were
21:37kind of lazy.
21:39And it just But then when I talked to
21:40business people, people on Wall Street,
21:43man, they were wanting to make millions
21:45of dollars, they were wanting to change
21:46the world, and it made my heart beat
21:48faster.
21:49>> Wow. Wow.
21:52That was So, I I thought business
21:55would help me to
21:59uh maximize my gifts more. But now, I
22:02didn't put ministry to the side
22:05completely. I just thought that business
22:07would be my way
22:09to live out God's call in my life.
22:12>> Right.
22:13So,
22:14I went into business
22:16and God blew on it.
22:19He He He blessed me. Um
22:22in my mid-20s, uh before I was 40, in my
22:2730s, I hit the multi-millionaire status,
22:30which might not seem like a lot these
22:32days,
22:33but in the
22:35early 1990s, Mhm. Oh, yeah. to say that
22:39you were a multi-millionaire
22:42and to be young
22:45and to be African-American
22:48and to be in an industry that was
22:50primarily dominated
22:53by white men.
22:54Now, that's Wall Street.
22:56>> Yeah. You didn't see a lot of females.
23:00You didn't see a lot of African
23:01Americans.
23:03And to go into that industry
23:06and to succeed rather quickly
23:09um
23:10it was it was an a huge accomplishment.
23:13>> Yeah.
23:14So,
23:15uh I loved it.
23:17I loved it. I was good at it. And during
23:19that time, man, I was an elder at my
23:21church. So, I was still doing ministry.
23:24So, I figured
23:25this is the way I'm going to live the
23:27rest of my life.
23:29I'm going to continue to make millions.
23:31I'm going to use that platform to
23:34represent Christ. I'm going to be a
23:36generous giver to my church and to other
23:38ministries.
23:40And while I'm doing all that, I'm
23:41married to an incredible woman, still am
23:44married, 38 years I've been married,
23:46raised three kids. Life couldn't have
23:48been better.
23:50But man, there's something about God
23:52when you get comfortable.
23:54When you think
23:55you figured this thing out, he throws a
23:58curveball
23:59at you.
24:00And that's what he did to me.
24:02I gotten too comfortable evidently.
24:05Or maybe I had forgotten
24:08about that still small voice
24:13that I heard around 19 years old
24:16when I gave my life to the Lord.
24:19And that still small voice was
24:21"You're called
24:23to shepherd and lead my people
24:26through the local church." In other
24:28words,
24:29I had this knowing feeling ever since I
24:32was 20 years old or 19 that I was
24:35supposed to pastor. Mhm.
24:37But I felt like if I made enough money
24:39and I was successful enough, then maybe
24:41God would leave me alone.
24:46Wow. So,
24:47and he doesn't do that.
24:48>> He doesn't do that.
24:49>> Nope.
24:51So, basically what happened, man, is
24:54around 2005 after I'd been in the
24:57business
24:59man
25:00over 20 years I think by that time or
25:03close to it.
25:05I started
25:06feeling
25:08discontent
25:10with my life.
25:11Now remember, multi-millionaire.
25:15You know, s- serving in the church
25:18married to an incredible woman
25:20raising my kids in in the fear and
25:23admonition of the Lord
25:26coaching Little League football
25:29and feeling like there's something
25:31missing in my life.
25:34Now I can look back on those
25:36days and see what God was doing. It was
25:39holy discontentment.
25:42Holy discontentment. Holy discontentment
25:44is when God stirs your life up and no
25:47matter what you do, no matter how much
25:49money you make, no much no matter how
25:51many accolades you get
25:54it doesn't make you happy anymore. Maybe
25:56it did make you happy
25:58but you keep doing that and all of a
26:00sudden what what used to make you happy
26:02doesn't. Been there. Yep.
26:05I thought I was going through a midlife
26:06crisis. Mhm.
26:09By this time I was in my mid-40s.
26:12And I was living in a huge house and I
26:15said, I just believe there's more to my
26:16life than this.
26:18But I wasn't about to stop doing what I
26:21was doing, man. I was making a lot of
26:23money. I was doing a lot of things and
26:25then the 2008
26:28financial crisis hit
26:31where investment firms, banks
26:34went out of business. The stock market
26:36crashed. Housing prices [snorts]
26:39plummeted
26:41and we experienced the worst financial
26:44downturn since the Great Depression.
26:472008, 2009, 2010.
26:51And by 2010,
26:53my net worth had dropped probably 75%.
26:59A lot of the business deals
27:01>> Holy molly.
27:01>> Yeah, man. And income.
27:04Income? 75%?
27:06>> 75%. Holy molly. That's
27:09>> All of those stocks. Sheesh. All of the
27:12things I invested in, real estate.
27:16Wasn't gone, but it was down.
27:19>> Yeah.
27:20And here's what the Holy Spirit
27:22whispered to me during that time.
27:26Do you want to build the rest of your
27:28life
27:29on something
27:31that can go away
27:33and it's not even your fault?
27:36Not saying anything is wrong with that,
27:38but the question the Holy Spirit asked
27:39me, is this what you want to do for the
27:42rest of your life where you can be a
27:45good investment advisor, get involved in
27:48good business deals,
27:49>> Mhm.
27:52and don't do anything wrong,
27:55and you lose 75% of what you just did?
28:00Do you want to continue to invest your
28:02life in this? Wow.
28:05And that question haunted [snorts] me
28:08for months.
28:10And it finally I finally came to the
28:12point to where I said,
28:14"No.
28:15I know I was born for more than this,
28:19even though I enjoyed it, and I still
28:21enjoy it.
28:22But I know there was more to my life.
28:25So, finally,
28:26I surrendered. Mhm. I said, "God,
28:30for the first time in my life, my adult
28:32life,
28:33I will do whatever you want me to do."
28:37And that's when the Lord spoke to me. He
28:40said, "I want you to shepherd and pastor
28:41my people. I want you to put
28:44Business will be your secondary calling,
28:47but right now I want you to focus on the
28:49local church, leading and shepherding
28:52and serving my people.
28:53That was in 2010.
28:56It took me about 2 years to unwind my
28:59business. I couldn't just leave my
29:01clients hanging.
29:03I mean, these people had been with me
29:04for 20-plus years. I was managing
29:06millions
29:08of dollars, tens of millions for some
29:09people. So, it took me a little while to
29:12unwind and divest myself out of some of
29:14these things. But, I told my clients
29:17what was going on. I said, "I'm getting
29:18ready to go into full-time ministry."
29:21And all of them knew I was committed to
29:22the Lord. And here's the deal. Some of
29:25them said, "You know what? I saw that in
29:27you." Really? Yeah.
29:29That's cool.
29:30>> Some of them would say,
29:32"You know, that's why
29:34I chose you as an as my investment
29:36advisor."
29:37>> Wow. Because there was something about
29:39you that was different.
29:41Or some of them would say, "You know
29:43what?
29:44That's why I trusted you with my money."
29:47So, they saw the spirit of God in you.
29:49>> Yeah. They saw a distinguished spirit
29:51upon you.
29:52They did, man.
29:54So, I made the move. My wife and I sold
29:57our big house, man. And And we didn't
29:59know what was going to happen, man. We I
30:00walked away. I had still had some
30:02residual income coming in. But,
30:04remember, man, my net worth had gone
30:07down 75%.
30:09Now, here's [clears throat] the deal.
30:11If I had made that decision 4 years
30:14earlier to go into full-time ministry, I
30:17would have been sitting on millions, and
30:19it would have been a easy decision to
30:21walk away from business because I got
30:23millions in the bank. I'm doing good.
30:26And that would have been my security
30:27blanket. So, I could go do ministry, but
30:30then look what I got to fall back on in
30:32case it doesn't work.
30:35God wanted to strip me Oof.
30:39of my security
30:41and then call me to walk away from it.
30:45That's what I did.
30:47We downsized.
30:49And then we said, "Lord,
30:52we're yours." And my wife followed me.
30:54She was like, "Okay, let's do it."
30:5720 people
30:59decided to walk with me to start this
31:01church called Eagle's Nest Church.
31:05Right outside of Atlanta, Georgia, in
31:07the Roswell Alpharetta area.
31:10And
31:11in 14 years, we've gone from 20 people
31:14to a little bit over 4,000 people who
31:17call Eagle's Nest Church their home.
31:20And it has been an incredible ride.
31:23And
31:25I now I am
31:27pastoring
31:29uh
31:30I'm back into the financial business,
31:33but in a different way.
31:35Teaching people now
31:37uh individuals
31:40married couples
31:42and pastors
31:43uh how to manage money how to make money
31:47how to multiply money from God's
31:49perspective.
31:51That's my story. Okay.
31:54Thank you.
31:55Now, I got the questions. You ready for
31:56these? Got you. All right, here's the
31:58first question I want to ask you.
32:00Um
32:01Oh, this is this is so good.
32:04So, we um
32:07on this podcast, I've been doing a
32:09series. It's like a series within the
32:11podcast. And I call it the Daniel
32:12Anointing. Wow.
32:14And so, for me, I look at the entire
32:17Bible and and Daniel has just been like
32:20a uh
32:21an archetype for me that really has
32:24the Lord's used Daniel in the Bible to
32:26show me like what my specific calling is
32:28in this season of the church and
32:30the influence that I have personally,
32:32which represents a lot of other people.
32:34And so, there's been this from episode
32:36to episode
32:38just trying to understand more what does
32:40it look like to be a person of influence
32:43in a wicked world like Daniel was.
32:45>> Yeah. And
32:47it's so funny because you you you were
32:50made this comment about ministers being
32:52too religious and by the way I am one.
32:54You are one. So
32:55>> Yeah.
32:56So we can poke fun at the stigmas around
32:58it but I think this is really important
32:59because
33:01there's a lot of people who listen to my
33:02podcast
33:04who are extremely gifted in the
33:07prophetic or extremely gifted in the
33:10deep things of God and and we need that
33:12in the church.
33:14But the more that I look at the life of
33:16Daniel, here's an interesting
33:18interesting distinction about him cuz
33:20when
33:21when we think about the prophetic and
33:23often times in ministry um as someone
33:26who is very prophetic, I've noticed I
33:28can attract a lot of people who are very
33:31spiritually let's say
33:34they they they are very spiritually keen
33:37like they can they they know the deep
33:39things of God. They're like they're in
33:41that. They're like the spiritual stuff,
33:43the supernatural stuff is not weird for
33:45them.
33:46>> Yeah.
33:47But a lot of them are very if I can just
33:50say this very plainly, very
33:51dysfunctional practically.
33:53>> Yes. And I think of um
33:56I think of a guy like Daniel who he
33:59didn't he he it wasn't one or the other
34:01for him. It wasn't I'm going to be of
34:04like worldly
34:06and I'm going to be able to be a person
34:08of favor and influence in uh the
34:11marketplace and in the
34:12uh municipality serving in the kingdom
34:15of Babylon
34:16being 10 times more competent is
34:18literally what the Bible says. 10 times
34:20more competent at his craft than his
34:23peers. Well versed in every branch of
34:25learning. Physically fit.
34:27>> Mhm. Actually the Bible says he was
34:29strong, healthy, and good looking. So
34:32there's all these components that that I
34:34think the church would say, "Oh, that's
34:37just worldly. It doesn't matter."
34:39But the interesting thing is is that if
34:41he wasn't excellent in all these
34:43different categories, he wouldn't have
34:46even had a shot
34:47to use his prophetic gift for the king
34:51in interpreting his dream in a
34:53supernatural way. So, his practical
34:56value actually made way for his
34:58spiritual values, if that makes sense.
35:00>> Yes.
35:01>> You see what I mean?
35:01>> I do. So, I'd love for you to speak into
35:03that because
35:05I I
35:06I really want to help
35:09bridge this gap for people. I think
35:11there's Christians in the marketplace
35:12who are
35:14really practically gifted,
35:16but are missing the spiritual edge in
35:19really what makes them like for you you
35:22made this comment about your client
35:23saying, "Lee, we know that you're good
35:26at what you do, but there's this je ne
35:29sais quoi, there's this there's this
35:31different spirit and anointing on you
35:33that makes you different and set apart."
35:35And I think there's a lot of business
35:36people who are missing that. Conversely,
35:39I think there's a lot of ministry people
35:41and pastors and very prophetic and
35:43deeply loved by God. I'm not It's not a
35:45whether or not you're loved, that's not
35:46the issue.
35:48It's whether or not you're effective
35:49>> Yes.
35:49>> in your assignment that I think is the
35:51real question. And helping them see
35:54it's not an either/or.
35:56God wants to use both parts of you to
35:59bring the kingdom to earth. So true.
36:02The men and women we read about
36:05throughout the Bible, in fact, some of
36:07the movers and shakers of the kingdom
36:11did not
36:13get their attention or rise to the top
36:16based on so-called spiritual exploits.
36:21They There were They were
36:24successful doing practical things that
36:28got people's attention.
36:31David,
36:33he took out Goliath.
36:35That was practical.
36:36>> Mhm.
36:37The Israelite army was cowering in fear,
36:42and David came out, and he took him out.
36:47And he developed the skill
36:49of that using that slingshot.
36:52Okay? Which was a lot different than
36:55what a lot of other people could do. So,
36:56in other words, he he knew how to um do
37:01something that other people didn't.
37:04And that
37:06I'm going to say that
37:08worldly, and I don't mean worldly from a
37:10bad standpoint.
37:11>> Yeah, yeah. Uh secular exploit.
37:14>> Sure. Material exploit.
37:16>> Material exploit.
37:17>> Yeah.
37:19Elevated him so he could make
37:22a spiritual difference.
37:24Okay? Wow. Yeah. Um
37:27I could say the same thing about so many
37:30people throughout the Bible.
37:33All right. So, here is the deal.
37:36We One of the reasons I didn't like
37:39didn't want to become a pastor is
37:40because I I use the word they were too
37:42religious, but
37:44but maybe a better word is I didn't feel
37:47like they were having an impact
37:49>> Mhm.
37:49other than in the four walls of the
37:51church.
37:52And I always saw myself uh having a
37:55broader impact.
37:57>> Mhm.
37:58So,
37:59um
38:00one of the reasons some Christians don't
38:02have a broad impact is because they
38:04think too narrow.
38:06And they view
38:08spiritual things as doing spiritual
38:11stuff.
38:12And they don't view practical things as
38:14being spiritual.
38:15>> Mhm.
38:16But Luke 16:11 breaks it down. Oh, I
38:20love this.
38:20>> Jesus says, "If therefore you have not
38:23been faithful in the use
38:26>> Oh, jeez. of worldly wealth,
38:28>> Do it. Do it.
38:29>> who will entrust the true riches to
38:32you?"
38:32>> Oh, jeez.
38:34What does your version say? So, I got
38:36the NLT here.
38:37>> Mhm.
38:38>> Um
38:39which script Luke 16
38:43>> Yeah, 16:11. I'll read 10 first.
38:46>> read 10 first. 10, 11, and 12 really all
38:49go together.
38:50>> So, this is right after that parable
38:51about the shrewd
38:52>> That's right.
38:53>> uh financial manager.
38:54>> That's right. It's right after
38:57>> Shrewd financial man We That's like
38:58that's your tag line. You are the shrewd
39:01financial manager.
39:02Um but you're fully redeemed, which is
39:04great. Verse 10, "If you are faithful in
39:06little things,
39:08you will be faithful in large ones, but
39:10if you are dishonest in little things,
39:12you won't be honest with greater
39:13responsibilities. And if you are
39:15untrustworthy about worldly wealth, who
39:18will trust you with the true riches of
39:21heaven?"
39:22That's it.
39:23That's it, man.
39:25What Jesus is doing,
39:28he's making a correlation
39:30between how we handle
39:33so-called worldly
39:37things,
39:38>> Yeah. business, finance. He he's He's
39:41saying that how you handle these issues
39:46is
39:47is a reflection
39:49of your spiritual maturity, of your
39:52spiritual responsibility.
39:54In other words, if you can't handle the
39:56practical, I can't trust you with the
39:58spiritual. Wow. Oh my gosh, it really
40:01comes down to that, huh?
40:02>> Yeah, that's right. If you can't handle
40:05your money, if you can't
40:07um
40:08uh
40:10you know, live below your means, i- i-
40:12if if you can't get your spending under
40:15control, if you can't do some of these
40:17things that we look at as very
40:20practical, worldly, secular things, but
40:22then we want to go into ministry.
40:25>> Mhm. Because that's spiritual. We want
40:27to pray, we want to prophesy. All that's
40:30great. But then you're broke.
40:33Then you you can't even, you know,
40:36handle your money. You you can't run a
40:39business.
40:40I'm saying that the two work together.
40:43And I am saying what Jesus says
40:47is what we do with our money.
40:50How we approach business
40:53is a reflection
40:56of
40:57our spiritual lives.
41:01And many of those things determine
41:04whether or not God can trust us with
41:06spiritual things.
41:09And one of the reasons God can't trust
41:11us with spiritual things is because we
41:13aren't faithful with the so-called
41:15non-spiritual things.
41:18Let me say it another way. He said it in
41:20Luke 16:10.
41:21If you're
41:22if you're faithful with the little,
41:24you'll be faithful with much.
41:26>> Mhm.
41:27If you're dishonest with little, you'll
41:28be dishonest with much.
41:32I call the little
41:34those
41:35things that um
41:37we deem insignificant. But God is
41:40looking at those insignificant things to
41:42determine whether we can have
41:44significant things.
41:46So, the way we handle money, the way we
41:48handle business
41:50has a profound impact on how we would
41:53handle spiritual things.
41:55Why do you think that's the case?
41:58Because
41:59Jesus
42:01is a very practical
42:04man. It It It Our character
42:08is not determined by
42:12our prophetic gift.
42:16By
42:18being so spiritual, our character is
42:20determined by how we live every day.
42:23>> Mhm.
42:25By by our integrity.
42:28About how we handle
42:30just life.
42:33And there are people who are so-called
42:34spiritual people, but they don't handle
42:37life well.
42:38>> Mhm.
42:39And I'm saying Wow. That
42:41when Jesus looks at people he wants to
42:44use, and I'm going to prove this to you
42:46in a minute.
42:47>> it. I don't know if he looks at the
42:48things that we look at
42:50to determine whether somebody's
42:52spiritual or not.
42:54For instance,
42:55Jesus could have easily
42:58said, "Okay, I'm getting ready to launch
43:00this ministry. I'm 30 years old, and
43:03it's time.
43:04I'm we're going to change the world.
43:07Let me go into the temple and see who
43:09reads the scripture to to the best."
43:11>> Oh, come on now.
43:12>> Let me see who has memorized the Torah.
43:15And those are the kind of people I want
43:18as my right-hand men.
43:21He didn't do that.
43:22He went to the marketplace.
43:24>> Mhm.
43:25He got fishermen,
43:27tax collectors.
43:28He got folks who were good at what they
43:32did in the marketplace.
43:35Wow. Oh my gosh, that's crazy.
43:38>> the deal. That's so wild. Wow.
43:40>> see how good they were Mhm. in the
43:43marketplace because he told Peter and
43:46and and uh his
43:48um partners,
43:50he said,
43:51"I'm going to make you fishermen of
43:53men."
43:55In other words, all that stuff you've
43:57been doing for decades, that skill that
44:00you have in the marketplace,
44:01>> Yeah. I want you to keep that skill.
44:03>> Yeah. That wasn't for nothing. That
44:06wasn't wasted. Oh, yes.
44:08>> But I'm going to take that skill, that
44:11salesmanship, that skill, that strategic
44:14nature, and I'm just going to use it for
44:16a different purpose that's much bigger
44:19than what you've been using it for. Wow.
44:21>> to make you fishermen of men. Wow.
44:25And he chose business people with the
44:28most precious thing
44:30in the world.
44:32And that is spreading the gospel
44:34of the kingdom.
44:37Goodness gracious. That is awesome.
44:39>> Yeah.
44:40So, there's a scripture that came to my
44:41mind. I want to read it to you.
44:43Uh Ecclesiastes
44:459:16.
44:47It says, "So, even though wisdom is
44:49better than strength, those who are wise
44:52will be despised if they are poor. Wow.
44:56What they say will not be appreciated
44:57for long.
44:59I want to talk about this because I I
45:00and I also want to be clear.
45:02What we're not saying is if you're in a
45:04place of financial difficulty that you
45:06don't bring value, that you don't have
45:08wisdom, that God doesn't love you. I
45:10mean, there's people who are I mean,
45:12think about you. You were in a position
45:13where you were uh you were you were born
45:16and raised in a very financially
45:18difficult situation, and then you had
45:20some success,
45:22and then
45:23because of a situation in the
45:25marketplace that you couldn't control,
45:27you experienced like a massive loss
45:29because of that. There's There's a lot
45:31of reasons why people can experience
45:33financial disarray.
45:35But I think that there's there's still a
45:37principle here that's really important
45:39in in
45:40the you know, those are isolated
45:42scenarios that I I believe
45:45you can have a bad season, but you if
45:49you're plugged into the vine,
45:51and you're operating from a place of,
45:53you know, being filled with the word of
45:54God, operating from the wisdom of God by
45:56his spirit,
45:57the Bible's clear. You can be fruitful
45:59in every season, even in a season that's
46:01unfavorable,
46:03you can be like a Joseph in the prison.
46:05You can be like a Joseph in the pit. You
46:07can be like a Joseph in Potiphar's house
46:09and still see the things that you work
46:11on in those seasons bear fruit, right?
46:14>> Absolutely.
46:15But I do think there's a lot of truth to
46:17this in regards to
46:19Jesus even said something similar.
46:21Jesus said,
46:23"Wisdom is proven right by its results."
46:27Results.
46:28And you can have the most amazing
46:30prophetic word. You can preach the most
46:32amazing sermon.
46:33But if your life is falling apart, if
46:35your marriage is falling apart, if your
46:37family's falling apart, if your health
46:39is falling apart, bro, if I'll just I'll
46:42just say it so you don't have to.
46:44When a preacher takes a pulpit
46:48and their physical appearance
46:50communicates that they don't actually
46:51practice the fruit of self-control
46:54behind the scenes, I'm not saying you
46:55have to be like Yeah. you know, Johnny
46:58Bravo.
46:59But if you if you take the pulpit and
47:02you're obese as a preacher,
47:05to me, it's really hard to follow you.
47:08It's really hard to take you seriously
47:09because you're preaching one thing, but
47:12the your actual physical body
47:14communicates
47:16that you are you are making decisions
47:18towards comfort and not towards
47:19self-sacrifice behind the scenes. We can
47:22see it.
47:23So, it's that everything communicates
47:25something in your life, right?
47:27And so, anyway, I think like there's a
47:29lot of truth to that. If we want to be
47:30people of great witness to the culture
47:32around us,
47:34the the scripture say, "Man judges the
47:36outward appearance, but God judges the
47:37heart."
47:38>> And we can lean a lot into, "Well, God
47:40judges my heart." It's like, "Okay, but
47:42do you want Jesus grew in favor with God
47:45and with man.
47:46>> Yes. Not just with God.
47:48>> If we want to grow in favor with man, we
47:51got to be able to communicate the
47:53language of the world, the the language
47:55of men who don't know God,
47:57which is seeing that every every branch
47:59on our tree's bearing fruit, not just
48:01the spiritual. This quote spiritual one.
48:03So good. I'm supposed to be interviewing
48:05you, but man, I love that, man. Well,
48:07you mentioned [clears throat]
48:08a verse in Ecclesiastes. That's so
48:11powerful.
48:12Could you read it again? Yeah.
48:14Ecclesiastes 9. Do you have a
48:16translation you prefer? Uh let's go New
48:18Living Translation.
48:20>> That's this one right here.
48:21>> Okay, great. So even though wisdom is
48:23better than strength, those who are wise
48:26will be despised if they are poor. Yeah.
48:28What they say will not be appreciated
48:30for long.
48:30>> Okay. Now, what I need you to do is to
48:32read one or two verses before that,
48:35because that is the culmination of what
48:39happened in a particular town,
48:42and it was a uh
48:44it was a
48:46poor wise man
48:48who saved the city. Oh, yeah.
48:51>> You see that? Can I read it?
48:53>> Yes, please.
48:53>> Okay. So Ecclesiastes 9:13.
48:57Here is another bit of wisdom
48:59that has impressed me as I have watched
49:01the way our our world works.
49:04There was a small town with only a few
49:06people, and a great king came with his
49:09army and besieged it. A poor wise man
49:12knew how to save the town, and so it was
49:15rescued. But afterward, no one thought
49:17to thank him.
49:19So even though wisdom is better than
49:20strength,
49:22those who are wise will be despised if
49:24they are poor. What they say will not be
49:26appreciated for long.
49:28Bam. Wow.
49:30Those who
49:31are wise will be despised if they are
49:34poor. Wow. Can I translate that for you?
49:37Please. Nobody listens to poor people.
49:39Jeez.
49:40They may be wise.
49:42They may have
49:45great wisdom,
49:46but they don't have this one thing,
49:49and that is influence.
49:53Woah, influence. Yeah. So,
49:58it is
49:59so important
50:02that
50:04we get wisdom. Mhm.
50:06But it is also important
50:09that we have influence.
50:10That people listen to us. That we have
50:13credibility. Yep.
50:15That people, in some ways, admire us so
50:18we can have a voice to speak into
50:20certain situations.
50:22And this is all throughout the Bible, by
50:23the way. You know, Joseph.
50:26Okay?
50:27Uh Abraham. Many people. Solomon. They
50:31had wisdom and they had influence.
50:35And they happen to have wealth, too.
50:37Mhm.
50:38My point is,
50:40a lot of times we think that there is
50:43virtue
50:45in being
50:46poor
50:47and broke.
50:49Now, let me be very clear. Yeah.
50:52God can use us
50:54regardless
50:56of the financial situation we are in.
50:59Right. In fact, he often uses us
51:03in different seasons or experiences of
51:06our lives.
51:08However,
51:10too many Christians are scared of
51:13wealth.
51:14And they don't understand the power of
51:16it and how it can be used for good.
51:20Therefore, they never maximize their own
51:23wealth building potential because deep
51:25down inside, they think something is
51:27wrong with building wealth.
51:31So, they don't do it.
51:33And when they don't do it, they lose
51:35potential influence that they can have.
51:39And when you lose influence, people
51:41don't listen to you.
51:43All right, I'm going to ask you a
51:44question I didn't and I don't know if
51:46you're prepared to answer this. So, Holy
51:47Spirit, help my brother Man. if uh you
51:50need to quicken something to his mind.
51:52Have you seen that play out in your life
51:53practically?
51:55Oh, yes. Where
51:57maybe you were on either side maybe both
51:59sides of that coin one time or another
52:01where
52:02you had something meaningful to say, but
52:04you weren't taken seriously or you you
52:06had because of the life that you built
52:10you were able to have influence in a way
52:12that made meaningful change that other
52:14other m- you know, peers spiritual peers
52:17probably wouldn't have the had the same
52:19level of influence.
52:20It plays out
52:22almost every day in my life.
52:25>> Really? Now, and it has been doing that
52:29really since I started my career in the
52:32investment business. I spent 25 years as
52:35an investment advisor. They used to call
52:36us stockbrokers back in the 1980s, 90s,
52:40and early 2000s.
52:42So, how did it play out? Very simply.
52:45I was in a
52:46office of stockbrokers in Atlanta and we
52:49were the third or fourth biggest
52:51producing office uh and and I worked
52:54with a major firm. It was like the
52:56second largest investment firm in the
52:59world. Okay?
53:01And
53:03I was a struggling stockbroker just
53:06starting. I had a cubicle on the floor
53:09and nobody cared about you. I mean, it's
53:12like until you make money, nobody cares
53:15about your opinion and half of the older
53:19guys didn't think you were going to make
53:20it anyway. It's sort of like sort of
53:22like football, you know, guys would come
53:24in for training camp and half of them
53:26would be gone by the time the season
53:28started because they would get cut. So,
53:29you didn't even get to know them
53:31because they might not be here. It was
53:33the same in business. Here's my point.
53:37Within 5 years
53:39I was doing really good and by my 10th
53:41year, I was one of the top in the firm.
53:45Okay, they had different levels and I
53:46was on one of those top levels. Not the
53:49top, but certainly considered in the top
53:535% of producers in the firm.
53:57All of a sudden everybody want to know
53:59what I thought.
54:02All of a sudden, if I was holding a
54:05Bible study,
54:07the other people were were beating the
54:09door down to come and hear what I had to
54:12say. Wow.
54:14All of a sudden,
54:16um my words mattered.
54:20Well, I was the same guy who was broke.
54:23I was the same struggling stock broker.
54:26>> Dang, this is so good, Lee.
54:27>> And nobody listened to me. Yep. And now
54:305, 10 years later,
54:33I'm still the same guy who loves Jesus,
54:37but I have money now.
54:39I have a certain position with the
54:41company. Wow. And I've achieved a
54:43certain level of success.
54:46And now people
54:48would not mind or did not mind sitting
54:50at my feet to hear what I had to say.
54:53And I used it. How about this? I know
54:56this is a bad word for some people. I
54:58exploited it for the kingdom of God.
55:01>> [laughter]
55:03>> Actually, keep going.
55:05>> Yeah. So,
55:06so yeah, man, money
55:09is powerful.
55:12It opened up doors for me.
55:14Success opened up doors for me.
55:17And it allowed me
55:20to share the gospel
55:23of Jesus
55:26in a way where I could not do
55:28when I was struggling.
55:31And it is just that simple.
55:35I will say this.
55:37There are many benefits to becoming
55:42financially successful.
55:44But there are also many dangers.
55:46>> Yeah.
55:47And for every
55:49success story of somebody using wealth
55:52and influence and affluence the right
55:56way,
55:57there probably
55:59three to five people that got wealth,
56:02affluence, and influence and used it the
56:04wrong way.
56:06So,
56:08I just happened to be a person whose
56:13God's grace was on me.
56:15And the more money I made,
56:18the more I realized
56:20that I have an assignment from God to
56:22manage it and to use it for his glory. I
56:26Well, the reason why I wanted I needed
56:27to look up this scripture
56:29was because Ah, here it is. Daniel
56:3211:32. The Daniel anointing. But the
56:34people who know their God shall be
56:36strong and carry out great exploits.
56:40Wow. Wow.
56:42>> There you go.
56:42>> said it. Exploited. Great exploits.
56:45>> Exploits. But for the for the kingdom,
56:47right? I I think of when Jesus said that
56:50the kingdom of God suffers violence and
56:52the violent take it by force.
56:54>> The kingdom of God suffers violence and
56:57the violent and the
56:59violent take it by force. I love that
57:02passage because it speaks to being
57:04aggressive. Yeah, you're a competitor.
57:06>> I'm a competitive man. I I
57:10You know, in business,
57:12the bottom line was
57:14to make a profit. And companies would do
57:17whatever they could to gain market share
57:20so they can make a profit.
57:22In the kingdom, the bottom line is make
57:24a disciple.
57:26And we ought to do all we can to make a
57:28disciple. We ought to be just as
57:30aggressive.
57:32Actually, if I can finish what you were
57:34reading in Luke 16,
57:35>> Yes.
57:36>> that's exactly what Jesus says. I want
57:38people to catch this.
57:40I hope that this does a couple things. I
57:42hope that number one, it takes the
57:43person who is really spiritually
57:46who's who's strong spiritually, but has
57:48been weaker in this area. It's like it's
57:50quickening them to take this more
57:52seriously, but I also hope it takes the
57:55person who is a killer in the business
57:58world, who does love the Lord,
58:01and make some realize this isn't just
58:03something I do on the side. This isn't
58:05just a permissible thing that God allows
58:08me to do to take care of my family. This
58:10is actually hardwired in that person's
58:13calling to advance the kingdom of God.
58:16Cuz this is what it says,
58:18he
58:18uh Luke 16
58:21verse 8. So, you mentioned, okay, this
58:23the this the passage, the parable is
58:26this manager
58:28uh of another of his boss's money. He
58:30realizes he's about to get fired.
58:32>> That's right. So, he goes around to all
58:34of the clients, all of the accounts, and
58:36he's basically he says, "Hey, I know
58:37that you owe the boss, the big man, X
58:40amount of money. I'm just going to sh-
58:42you know, scrape a little bit off the
58:43top for you, so that you don't owe as
58:44much." And what he's doing is he's
58:46trying to win favor with all of these
58:48people, so that when he gets clipped, he
58:51can go to them and maybe get a job with
58:53them.
58:54>> And it's so funny because it says in
58:57verse 8, "The rich man had to admire the
59:01dishonest rascal for being so shrewd."
59:03>> Called him a rascal. I love that
59:05translation.
59:06>> I I love that like this, you know, back
59:08to what you said about Jesus picking his
59:10his home team, that that top, the first
59:1312.
59:13>> Mhm.
59:14It's like there's this amazing We are We
59:16are so religious in how we look at
59:18people's potential and all of that. It's
59:21like you you get it coming from the
59:23world of of athletics.
59:25It's like, okay,
59:27that person can really gifted, but if
59:29they don't have hunger, I can't work
59:31with that. But if that person has hunger
59:33and they're rough around the edges and
59:35yeah, they need some development in
59:36their skills, I would rather take the
59:38person who's hungry who needs some skill
59:40development.
59:41>> Yeah. Cuz that you can't teach hunger.
59:44They either have it or they don't. So
59:46it's like the the Lord is saying that
59:49even the master
59:51who is being
59:52basically robbed by his own employee
59:55has to chuckle and say that, "Yo, that
59:57guy got to do."
59:58>> He's got some game.
59:59>> That's exactly right. I admire the
1:00:00hustle in him.
1:00:01>> That's right. Because here's the key.
1:00:04And it is true that the children of this
1:00:06world are more shrewd in dealing with
1:00:07the world around them than are the
1:00:09children of the light.
1:00:10Here's the lesson. Use your worldly
1:00:13resources to benefit others and make
1:00:17friends. Then when your possessions are
1:00:19gone, they will welcome you to an
1:00:21eternal home. Ooh. How about that?
1:00:24>> Can't we talk about that
1:00:26>> go for it. That's pretty incredible.
1:00:28It says, "Use your What does it say
1:00:31again?"
1:00:31>> It says, "Use your wealth, your money."
1:00:34Yep. Worldly resources to benefit others
1:00:38and make friends.
1:00:40Okay. And then when your possessions are
1:00:42gone, they will welcome you to to an
1:00:44eternal home. All right. So when it
1:00:45says, "When your possessions are gone,"
1:00:47one day our possessions are going to
1:00:50leave us or we're going to leave it.
1:00:52>> Yep. Okay. And let's just say if you are
1:00:54a good steward, then you will leave it.
1:00:57But they will be gone. You can't take it
1:00:59to heaven. Right. I've never seen a
1:01:02hearse pulling a U-Haul, okay? So we can
1:01:05accumulate things and we can use them
1:01:07for good, but we don't take it to
1:01:09heaven.
1:01:10But we can invest in heaven.
1:01:14So it says, "Make friends
1:01:16with
1:01:17by the means of unrighteous mammon, make
1:01:20friends.
1:01:21So when it is gone, the money,
1:01:25you will be welcomed
1:01:27into an eternal dwelling.
1:01:30Okay?
1:01:31That's interesting.
1:01:32Can I just break it down? Yeah.
1:01:35Use your money in a way while you
1:01:39while you are here on Earth
1:01:41that will get people saved
1:01:44and bring them closer to Christ.
1:01:47And when you give
1:01:50through church, through ministry,
1:01:52helping the poor, and people get saved,
1:01:54you go to heaven.
1:01:57And
1:01:58and giving is like making friends with
1:02:00people.
1:02:01>> Mhm. Okay?
1:02:03And you go to heaven, and you will be
1:02:05welcomed. This is what the word says, to
1:02:07an eternal dwelling. Can I just paint a
1:02:10picture in my
1:02:11uh
1:02:13imagination, okay?
1:02:15It's like a pep rally when you walk
1:02:19through the pearly gates of people
1:02:21cheering you on. You will be welcomed
1:02:25into the eternal dwelling
1:02:27by those people who have been impacted
1:02:30by your giving and by your stewardship.
1:02:34Let me give you a real example.
1:02:36When Billy Graham got started in the
1:02:391940s,
1:02:41I believe.
1:02:42Might have been in the 1950s.
1:02:45He uh did something pretty amazing. He
1:02:48uh I believe he started doing his his uh
1:02:52crusades in Los Angeles.
1:02:54And he would have these tent revivals.
1:02:57And he would put up billboards in Los
1:03:01Angeles and take out newspaper ads and
1:03:04put ads uh all over the place. Well, it
1:03:07cost a lot of money to do that.
1:03:11So, I believe I read somewhere
1:03:13where two or three businessmen
1:03:16underwrote the marketing expenses for
1:03:19Billy Graham.
1:03:20They gave him the money through the
1:03:22ministry so he could market it. Really?
1:03:26So the word could get out about this
1:03:28young prolific evangelist.
1:03:32So because of
1:03:34great marketing
1:03:36people came to listen to this phenomenal
1:03:40man of God
1:03:41and they gave their lives to Jesus and
1:03:44people got saved and those people got
1:03:47saved when they passed away, they went
1:03:49to heaven.
1:03:51Now we know whenever Billy Graham went
1:03:53to heaven, there were
1:03:54millions of people probably cheering him
1:03:57on when he walked through the pearly
1:03:59gates saying, "Thank you. I wouldn't be
1:04:00here if it wasn't for your preaching."
1:04:03But what about those three businessmen
1:04:06who gave their money who used their
1:04:10resources
1:04:12to get this ministry off the ground.
1:04:14Yep. What I'm here to tell you
1:04:16is their welcome
1:04:19was just as big as Billy Graham's. Wow.
1:04:23Because of they of how they used their
1:04:26worldly resources.
1:04:27>> My goodness. That's what that
1:04:30verse is telling us.
1:04:32Use money and resources in a way where
1:04:35you make friends, you build
1:04:37relationships, you you you impact lives.
1:04:40So when you get to heaven, you'll be
1:04:41welcomed in the eternal dwelling.
1:04:45So it reminds me we talked about this
1:04:47last night of the previous episode that
1:04:49I did with this guy, Dr. Francis Myles,
1:04:52which you need to listen to, man. I'm
1:04:53going to send you the link for it.
1:04:54>> Please do. About the
1:04:56It's like the order of Melchizedek and
1:04:59then the Joseph anointing for business.
1:05:01Wow.
1:05:02And the thing that he said that was so
1:05:04powerful to me was the Lord The Lord had
1:05:06spoken to him about
1:05:08the Joseph anointing. The Lord says to
1:05:10Dr. Francis,
1:05:11um who do you think is
1:05:14the greatest archetype of kingdom
1:05:15entrepreneurship in the Bible?
1:05:17And he says, "Well, Joseph, son of
1:05:19Jacob, of course, who second in command
1:05:22over Egypt, basically invented the
1:05:24banking system." Yeah. And uh all these
1:05:27other things. You look at the details of
1:05:29of the the
1:05:31economic wisdom to help an entire
1:05:34country not just dodge 7 years of
1:05:37famine, but also to to um help people
1:05:40who were in a financially difficult
1:05:42positions, help them prosper. It was
1:05:44like it's incredible.
1:05:46And he said, "Of course, Joseph, son of
1:05:48Jacob." And the Lord says to him,
1:05:50"Nope." But there's another Joseph.
1:05:53And so he digs deeper,
1:05:55finds Joseph of Arimathea. Wow.
1:05:59Very only like a couple verses about him
1:06:01in the New Testament where it says,
1:06:03"Joseph
1:06:04of Arimathea, who was a disciple of
1:06:07Jesus Mhm. and a rich man,
1:06:10goes to Pontius Pilate after Jesus had
1:06:13just breathed his last breath on the
1:06:15cross."
1:06:16Which by the way, you were talking about
1:06:17influence. Yeah. I don't think any of
1:06:19those other 12 disciples could have gone
1:06:21to Pontius Pilate, the top political
1:06:23leader in that area,
1:06:25and have made the same appeal that
1:06:27Joseph of Arimathea made, which was "I
1:06:30want the body of Jesus, the dead body of
1:06:33Jesus, which was headed straight towards
1:06:35a mass grave." Wow.
1:06:37He, because of his influence, was able
1:06:40to rescue the body of Jesus in its most
1:06:44vulnerable state
1:06:46>> Mhm. when Jesus' own spirit wasn't even
1:06:48in the body,
1:06:50to put the body not in a mass grave, but
1:06:53in a tomb, which would have only been
1:06:55possible to purchase if you were a
1:06:57wealthy man,
1:06:59so that we could experience the power of
1:07:02the story of the resurrection from the
1:07:05tomb. Wow. And so
1:07:08it's amazing because the revelation that
1:07:10my friend Dr. Francis Myles got from
1:07:12this encounter with the Lord was
1:07:15the archetype for kingdom
1:07:17entrepreneurship now on this side of the
1:07:19cross is Joseph of Arimathea who shows
1:07:22us and demonstrates to us
1:07:24to use your business
1:07:27to rescue the body of Christ
1:07:31at its most vulnerable state.
1:07:33>> Oh my god. How about that?
1:07:35>> That's incredible.
1:07:37What a
1:07:39beautiful biblical metaphor.
1:07:42>> It's beautiful. I I almost tear up when
1:07:45I think about that.
1:07:45>> To rescue the body of Christ, exactly
1:07:49what he did
1:07:51in the physical realm. He He literally
1:07:53did that.
1:07:55It's what we should be doing. Yes.
1:07:57And the um
1:07:58spiritual in the marketplace basically.
1:08:01>> Yeah.
1:08:02I mean, we
1:08:03Yes. We We need to help We need to
1:08:06rescue the body of Christ.
1:08:08Wow. I'm going to Okay. This will be a
1:08:11very interesting episode and I I will
1:08:13see We'll see how how
1:08:15many people can keep up with what we're
1:08:16going to do.
1:08:18But
1:08:19um I actually want to tap into your
1:08:20financial wisdom, okay? Okay? So, we're
1:08:23heading like we got your testimony.
1:08:25We're starting to uncover why this is so
1:08:27important. I want to I want to put you
1:08:29to the test.
1:08:30>> Okay. 25 years of financial investing
1:08:33experience.
1:08:34First question is what is the most
1:08:37um
1:08:39What was the most interesting question
1:08:41about finances that you've received in
1:08:43the comments of your Instagram videos
1:08:46which have just completely gone
1:08:48berserk viral It's gone berserk.
1:08:50>> over the past couple years.
1:08:51>> Yeah, man.
1:08:52Um
1:08:53the most interesting comments
1:08:56are the comments that criticize me and
1:09:00call me a heretic. Oh.
1:09:04>> [laughter and gasps]
1:09:05>> Me too, by the way. Shameless plug for
1:09:07the power to prosper cuz that's why I
1:09:10had to write the book to help people
1:09:11with that, but tell me more.
1:09:12>> Here's the deal.
1:09:14I did a
1:09:16post called Jesus the businessman.
1:09:19Oh, no. Yeah, man.
1:09:22Oh my god, people went berserk, man.
1:09:25>> Oh, did they really?
1:09:26>> All right, and here's my premise for
1:09:27saying that. I said one of And this is
1:09:30all through the word.
1:09:31>> Yeah. one of the
1:09:34impediments
1:09:37that Jesus experienced preaching the
1:09:39gospel
1:09:41is he said, "A prophet is without honor
1:09:44in his own hometown." Mhm. In other
1:09:47words, familiarity breeded contempt
1:09:51Yeah.
1:09:51>> many times with him. For sure. And then
1:09:53he said he was up preaching one time and
1:09:56the people said, "Well, who is this
1:09:58dude, man?
1:09:59Uh this is Mary's son. I I know your
1:10:02brothers. Isn't this the carpenter's
1:10:05son?"
1:10:07In other words, they viewed Jesus
1:10:12as a carpenter {slash} carpenter's son
1:10:14because he worked in that business.
1:10:17In other words, he had to have a pretty
1:10:20good reputation
1:10:22in the marketplace
1:10:23to be referred to Mhm.
1:10:26and his family as a carpenter's son.
1:10:30Okay, here's my point. I went through
1:10:32the same thing when I started Eagles
1:10:34Nest Church. Mhm. Like, isn't this the
1:10:37stockbroker, the guy I've been reading
1:10:38about in the magazines? Isn't this the
1:10:41guy Wow, really?
1:10:42>> Wait a minute, I'm supposed to now
1:10:44listen to him as a pastor? It actually
1:10:47worked against me
1:10:49some as a pastor Really?
1:10:52>> because some people didn't want to
1:10:53listen to a financial guy
1:10:56uh
1:10:57uh pastor and do sermons.
1:10:59>> Yeah. Okay? So, here's my point. Here, I
1:11:01got a lot of criticism on this.
1:11:04I said
1:11:05that
1:11:06Jesus must have been a pretty awesome
1:11:09business guy.
1:11:11Okay? And his family probably had a
1:11:12pretty good business
1:11:14because
1:11:15peop- he had a brand at that time, not
1:11:19as a ministry leader,
1:11:22not as a rabbi,
1:11:24but the first thing they said is, "Man,
1:11:27you're the carpenter's son. We we know
1:11:29you as a carpenter." So, my point was
1:11:32he spent
1:11:34most of his life before his ministry
1:11:38went viral, Yeah. okay?
1:11:42Doing the same thing
1:11:44that we did.
1:11:46Making a living.
1:11:47Being good at it.
1:11:49Getting clients.
1:11:51He had to eat.
1:11:52He had to pay for food. He had to
1:11:55budget. He had to do the same thing
1:11:57everybody else did. Okay?
1:12:00People went berserk.
1:12:02They said, "No, Jesus, for his first 30
1:12:05years, he was just studying the word."
1:12:07Of course he was, but how do you think
1:12:09he made money? How do you think he He he
1:12:12And it's like people could not see Jesus
1:12:15as a former businessman.
1:12:18They couldn't see it. They They said,
1:12:20"No, it's no way. My my savior, my lord
1:12:25made money." People struggle with that?
1:12:27>> Yes, man. I was shocked.
1:12:29>> Oh my gosh. It's like he was a
1:12:30carpenter.
1:12:31>> Yeah, he was a carpenter. And they said,
1:12:32"No, he wasn't. His family was a
1:12:34carpenter." No, he was a carpenter. And
1:12:36his his his earthly father was a
1:12:38carpenter. No, he made money. He managed
1:12:40He had a He was a part of the family
1:12:42business. Yeah. Which means he had to do
1:12:44the same thing that any other business
1:12:46person would have to do.
1:12:48That's why he understood business
1:12:50people.
1:12:51I believe that's why he appreciated
1:12:53business people.
1:12:54Probably why he went into the business
1:12:57world in the marketplace to find his
1:12:59disciples because he had an appreciation
1:13:02for what business people had to do in
1:13:05order to be successful. Wow.
1:13:07So, I got raked over the coals for
1:13:12implying
1:13:13that Jesus
1:13:15at one point of his life
1:13:17was a businessman and was probably a
1:13:20good one and his brand as a businessman
1:13:24was more prominent when he got started
1:13:27than his brand as a religious leader.
1:13:31His His brand. I mean his reputation.
1:13:34So, he you were saying that he had a a
1:13:36bigger reputation because of his
1:13:39business than
1:13:41than when he was in ministry? Yeah.
1:13:43Well, his ministry was primarily
1:13:45launched Yeah. when he was 30 years old.
1:13:48So, what was he doing before he was I
1:13:50see what you're saying. That's what I'm
1:13:51saying. Yeah, he didn't have a
1:13:52reputation as being this religious guy.
1:13:55He had we had we saw the moment with him
1:13:56at the
1:13:57in the temple when he was a Yes. That's
1:13:59right.
1:14:00>> But you're But you're right. Everybody
1:14:01was like, "Oh, isn't this just Joseph's
1:14:03son, the carpenter?" And now he's like
1:14:05acting like the Messiah or something.
1:14:07Exactly right.
1:14:08>> Wow. So, I'm saying
1:14:10that um
1:14:13But yeah, I'm saying that Jesus
1:14:16is our Lord, our savior. Jesus is God in
1:14:19the flesh.
1:14:20But the hypostatic union of Christ, it's
1:14:25a theological term, means that Jesus was
1:14:28100% God, 100% man. Mhm.
1:14:31And the human part of him had to do the
1:14:34same thing we had to do.
1:14:37Build a business, eat,
1:14:39budget,
1:14:41plan, strategize.
1:14:44And he did that well, well enough to be
1:14:47known for it.
1:14:50When you look at Jesus' ministry,
1:14:54do you pull do you find business
1:14:56principles in
1:14:58how he did ministry? Oh my god. All
1:15:01through it.
1:15:02Oh man, man, man. In fact, if you look
1:15:05at most of his parables, they had
1:15:07something to do with business and
1:15:10finance.
1:15:10>> Yeah, that's right. Yeah, man.
1:15:12>> For sure.
1:15:12>> They were some of the most popular
1:15:14parables. The parable of the talent, the
1:15:16parable of the minas,
1:15:19uh of the shrewd steward in Luke 16.
1:15:22Um
1:15:23many of his parables had to do with
1:15:25farming and entrepreneurialship and and
1:15:28how you handle profit, you know, and and
1:15:30and loss and all this stuff, risk, all
1:15:33of that. Yeah. Man, it's all through the
1:15:36word.
1:15:36>> My goodness.
1:15:37>> It's a business mindset. When I read the
1:15:39Bible, it's better than reading the Wall
1:15:42Street Journal.
1:15:43>> Wow. I see it.
1:15:45>> Yeah. But but a lot of people don't see
1:15:47it because they're First of all, they
1:15:48don't want to see it because they view
1:15:51business and finance as something
1:15:54secular and worldly
1:15:56and not spiritual. Yikes. But I see it
1:16:00because business and finance
1:16:03is just as important
1:16:05as praying and fasting. All of it is
1:16:09spiritual.
1:16:10All of what we do with God's resources
1:16:14is spiritual.
1:16:16That means every spending decision is a
1:16:18spiritual decision because we are using
1:16:22and spending something God allowed us to
1:16:25have, which makes us stewards and God is
1:16:28the owner.
1:16:29You know, it's interesting because
1:16:32when I was writing this book, um
1:16:34[snorts]
1:16:35one of the things that I hit in this
1:16:36book, which I had never This was truly
1:16:38like the the Lord just gave me the the
1:16:40word for it.
1:16:42Um
1:16:43one of the things that I had talked
1:16:45about in this book, The Power to
1:16:46Prosper, that I had never heard of
1:16:48anybody
1:16:50who wrote on the topic of biblical
1:16:51financial prosperity, stewardship, etc.
1:16:55was the um
1:16:58was the reality of the Antichrist. Mhm.
1:17:01So,
1:17:03this is where it's it's so interesting
1:17:05to me because you look at Revelation 13,
1:17:10when it talks about the the beast and
1:17:12then the mark of the beast
1:17:14and the mark of the beast being
1:17:17this mark that you take on your right
1:17:19hand or on your forehead, which will
1:17:22you without taking this,
1:17:25you will not be able to participate in
1:17:28the economy. It says, you won't be able
1:17:31to buy or sell. It doesn't matter if
1:17:33you're rich or poor or great or small.
1:17:35Doesn't matter who you are.
1:17:37There there's going to be a one-world
1:17:39economic system that is set up that you
1:17:42will not be able to participate in
1:17:44unless you take this
1:17:46uh this mark.
1:17:48And I I think what's interesting is, you
1:17:50know,
1:17:52I've talked about We don't need to talk
1:17:53about it right now in regards to like
1:17:55when the Antichrist is actually going to
1:17:57show up. I think it's safe to say, you
1:17:59look at the times right now
1:18:01and Jesus is coming back
1:18:04relatively soon. Way
1:18:06way sooner today than he was yesterday.
1:18:08>> No doubt. Right? But I think what's so
1:18:10interesting about that
1:18:13is
1:18:14it is going to the mark of the beast
1:18:16will test people's
1:18:19economic allegiance, which is a
1:18:22spiritual issue.
1:18:24Right? Like the the fact that people,
1:18:27you know, it's not about necessarily,
1:18:29you know, what songs you're going to
1:18:31sing or what denomination you're a part
1:18:33of. It has everything to do with whether
1:18:35or not you trust God as your prosperer
1:18:41or do you trust the system of this
1:18:43world? Do you trust the government? Do
1:18:44you trust
1:18:46an employer? But really it's that that
1:18:49defining moment of whether people take
1:18:50the mark of the beast or not is going to
1:18:52come down to
1:18:54what they believe about whether they
1:18:56believe that their participation in the
1:18:59economy, buying and selling, is
1:19:01spiritual
1:19:03or not.
1:19:04You see what I mean?
1:19:05>> Wow, yeah, I do. So that's why I feel
1:19:06like this this conversation is
1:19:09You made a comment at earlier on this
1:19:11podcast
1:19:13that your financial stewardship is a
1:19:14spiritual It is a spiritual issue. And I
1:19:17think
1:19:18it's it it absolutely has consequences
1:19:21with like how how you can help people
1:19:23and things like that. But I think at the
1:19:25very foundation of it
1:19:27it really
1:19:29the the scary question that people
1:19:31should be asking themselves is
1:19:33does my belief system around my
1:19:35financial participation in the economy
1:19:39does it reflect an allegiance to the
1:19:41principles and promises of God's word
1:19:44and God's will for my finances or does
1:19:47it actually reflect a belief system that
1:19:51God is not interested in that area of my
1:19:53life?
1:19:54And
1:19:55the only people who have who have the
1:19:58corner market, so to speak
1:20:01on how I can prosper
1:20:03are the people who don't worship God.
1:20:05Yeah. The wicked system of this world.
1:20:08Which is what a lot of people are saying
1:20:09when they say, "Oh, God's not interested
1:20:11in that area of my life."
1:20:13Yet you buy and sell all day every day.
1:20:15>> All day every day. Use money. Yeah. Make
1:20:18money decisions.
1:20:20But yet we don't think God should be in
1:20:23it.
1:20:24Um and some of it of us don't believe
1:20:27God is in it. Mhm.
1:20:30Man, he's all in it. There are
1:20:33Money is so powerful, what we do with
1:20:36it. Money is amoral, by the way. It's
1:20:39not evil, it's not good. What determine
1:20:42What determines whether it is evil or
1:20:46good are the hands that money is placed
1:20:49in.
1:20:50What you do with it.
1:20:52And who the person is determines whether
1:20:56it is good or evil.
1:20:59So, money is a is a tool.
1:21:02Okay? And it can be used for good or
1:21:04bad. But one thing about money, money
1:21:06will magnify
1:21:09and amplify who you are.
1:21:12It will bring out things in a person
1:21:16that they might not have even known was
1:21:18in them.
1:21:19Because when you don't have money, you
1:21:22don't have a lot of choices.
1:21:24And you can't live out the dreams of
1:21:26your heart. Because you don't have the
1:21:29opportunity to.
1:21:31But when you have money, you have more
1:21:33choices. You can live out some of your
1:21:35dreams. And what you live out is really
1:21:39what's in your heart.
1:21:41So, it's a powerful force.
1:21:43So powerful that Jesus used money. What
1:21:49we do with it, how we see it
1:21:52to determine
1:21:53whether or not a person
1:21:55was serious about serving him.
1:22:00He said in Matthew 6:21, "Where your
1:22:02treasure is, there will your heart be
1:22:05also." A lot of people get that verse
1:22:07wrong.
1:22:08They say, "Well, where your heart is,
1:22:10your treasure." No, no, no. It says,
1:22:11"Where your treasure is."
1:22:14Your heart will gravitate to wherever
1:22:16your treasure and your money is.
1:22:18If your money is in the stock market,
1:22:20you're going to care about it. Your
1:22:21heart is going to be there. Nothing's
1:22:23wrong with that. But it will draw your
1:22:25attention to it. Yeah. your money is not
1:22:27in the stock market and it goes down,
1:22:29you don't care because you don't your
1:22:31heart is not there because your money is
1:22:33not there.
1:22:35So,
1:22:36there are two quick stories I want to
1:22:39share with you.
1:22:40>> Bring them. Where Jesus
1:22:43where how about this? Where somebody's
1:22:45eternal destiny
1:22:48was determined
1:22:50by what they
1:22:52did or did not do with their money.
1:22:55Now, did you hear what I said? Their
1:22:57eternal destiny
1:22:59was determined by what they did or did
1:23:02not do with their money.
1:23:05Okay?
1:23:06Luke chapter 18, the rich young ruler
1:23:10came to Jesus, what must I do to inherit
1:23:12the kingdom of God? Jesus said, you do
1:23:14this, you do this, you do this. He said,
1:23:16man, I've been doing that my whole life.
1:23:18Jesus says, you lack one thing. Sell
1:23:21your possessions
1:23:22and give it to the poor and follow me.
1:23:25You have a treasure in heaven.
1:23:27And the Bible says,
1:23:29the guy went away sad.
1:23:31And Jesus looked around and said, how
1:23:32hard it is for a rich man to enter into
1:23:35the kingdom of heaven. It's easier for
1:23:37the camel to go through a needle eye of
1:23:39a needle than for a rich person to enter
1:23:41into the kingdom of heaven. Man, there's
1:23:43so much there that I don't even have
1:23:45time to unpack.
1:23:46But I will tell you this,
1:23:48what that man did not do with his money
1:23:54altered
1:23:55his eternal destiny. Wow.
1:23:58Because he wouldn't give it up.
1:24:02Now, that's not a
1:24:04universal call for everybody. It was an
1:24:06individual diagnosis for that particular
1:24:09man. Mhm. However,
1:24:13this man's eternal destiny was altered
1:24:16by what he did not do with his money.
1:24:19Jesus says, how hard it is for people
1:24:21like you
1:24:22to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
1:24:25Rich people.
1:24:27Now, that doesn't mean Jesus doesn't
1:24:29love rich people.
1:24:31It's just that a lot of rich people
1:24:33don't love Jesus. Mhm. Because they got
1:24:35so many other things that they love more
1:24:38than Jesus.
1:24:40But then in Luke 19,
1:24:43a very similar situation happens.
1:24:46Jesus encounters this guy named
1:24:48Zacchaeus,
1:24:50who was the chief tax gatherer, which
1:24:52meant and it says he was very rich, not
1:24:54just rich. The text said he was very
1:24:56rich. So, he was a tax gatherer, he made
1:24:59his money by extorting people, cheating
1:25:01people, collecting more from them than
1:25:04what they actually owed on their taxes.
1:25:06That's what the the tax collectors did
1:25:08back in those days. That's why they were
1:25:09so despised. People hated them. They
1:25:12were considered scum of the earth.
1:25:14But not only did he make a lot of money
1:25:16as a tax gatherer, he got a cut from all
1:25:18the people who worked under him because
1:25:20he was the chief tax gatherer. So, he
1:25:22got overrides on all the other tax
1:25:25collectors in the region. Wow. This dude
1:25:28was rolling.
1:25:30Okay?
1:25:32He has an encounter with Jesus.
1:25:35And he comes to Jesus
1:25:37at his big house with people around
1:25:40because Jesus went to his house.
1:25:42And he says,
1:25:45"Half of my possessions I'm going to
1:25:46give to the poor.
1:25:48And if I've defrauded anyone of
1:25:50anything, I'm going to give them back
1:25:52four times as much." And he had
1:25:54defrauded a lot of people. Wow.
1:25:57And Jesus said,
1:25:58"Today,
1:26:00salvation has come to this house. Wow.
1:26:03For this man
1:26:05is a son of Abraham."
1:26:07In other words, he's a believer.
1:26:10In other words, he just got saved.
1:26:13In other words, welcome to the kingdom
1:26:16of God, Zacchaeus.
1:26:18Wait a minute.
1:26:20Zacchaeus didn't pray.
1:26:21He didn't pray the [clears throat]
1:26:22sinner's prayer.
1:26:24He didn't
1:26:25speak in tongues.
1:26:28He didn't quote scripture. All he did
1:26:31was said, "I'm going to pay people back
1:26:34who I ripped off, and I'm going to give
1:26:36half of my wealth to the poor." And
1:26:38Jesus said, "Boom, you just got saved."
1:26:41Now, you and I know you can't pay your
1:26:43way into heaven.
1:26:44>> Right. I'm glad you hit that. Okay? Yep.
1:26:46That's not the issue. The issue is what
1:26:49he did with his with his money
1:26:52was indicative of what was going on with
1:26:55his heart.
1:26:55>> Yep. Yep. Jesus knew he had his heart
1:26:58because of what he did with his money.
1:27:01There's a strong correlation
1:27:03between what we do with our money
1:27:05and where our hearts Yeah. For sure.
1:27:09So, Jesus used this thing called money,
1:27:12man,
1:27:13to really
1:27:15measure. He used it as a barometer
1:27:19to measure how serious we were
1:27:22about following and serving him.
1:27:26Yep. I is
1:27:28We are saved [snorts] by
1:27:29grace through faith,
1:27:31but faith without works is dead. Right.
1:27:33>> So, his what he did with his resources
1:27:35after that was the overflow of the
1:27:38genuineness of his faith.
1:27:40>> No doubt.
1:27:40>> Which I love that. Yeah, we we can't buy
1:27:43our way into heaven. That's not about
1:27:45that. It's just that
1:27:47the rich young ruler did not do with his
1:27:49money and what Zacchaeus did do with his
1:27:52money
1:27:53um
1:27:54showed Jesus
1:27:58where their hearts really were.
1:28:01Okay? Yep. And that's And that's how
1:28:03important this area is, man. It can
1:28:05reveal a lot about us,
1:28:08good and bad.
1:28:11There's a couple things I want to do um
1:28:13that are going to be really fun. One of
1:28:15them is going to be
1:28:16I'm going to let you break down
1:28:19some of the frameworks for
1:28:21good stewardship. Cuz you're By the way,
1:28:23for people who don't know your
1:28:24Instagram, the stewardship coach
1:28:27is where you talk about all the
1:28:28financial stuff. So good. That's why I
1:28:31reached out to you cuz I was watching
1:28:32that content. I was like, "This is
1:28:34amazing." Um you also have uh you pastor
1:28:37a church, Eagles Nest.
1:28:39Um so I want We're going to get into a
1:28:41moment shortly where I'll let you just
1:28:44like break down very practically what
1:28:46are some of the key things for financial
1:28:48stewardship that you want you really
1:28:50want the church to know.
1:28:52Um but really anyone could be can
1:28:53benefit from it. And then I have a
1:28:55really fun surprise exercise at the end
1:28:58of this, which will be uh extremely fun
1:29:00to do, too. But before that, I want to
1:29:04I want to get um I want to show this
1:29:06this wisdom on on display for a second
1:29:08because you were sharing with me last
1:29:10night over dinner that
1:29:12when uh with the building that you guys
1:29:15are acquiring and like renovating right
1:29:18now for the church, you're doing it in a
1:29:20really unconventional way, which to me
1:29:23just demonstrates like this is this is
1:29:25the type of financial wisdom and
1:29:27anointing that if more pastors got this,
1:29:31I mean, it would be a game-changer to
1:29:32how we can influence and occupy culture.
1:29:35So, is uh Eagles Nest Is Eagles Nest
1:29:37operating out of a traditional building
1:29:40right now? We
1:29:42did a very
1:29:44untraditional
1:29:46um strategy when it came to looking for
1:29:49property, buying property. Mhm. Let me
1:29:52say this. Uh
1:29:54most church real estate
1:29:58is underutilized. In fact, church real
1:30:00estate is probably the most
1:30:02underutilized
1:30:04asset. Let's talk about stewardship.
1:30:06>> world. Yeah. And that's not good
1:30:09stewardship.
1:30:10>> Mhm. I mean, think about it. Most
1:30:12churches
1:30:13sit empty
1:30:15Monday through Saturday with occasional
1:30:18use.
1:30:20And then on Sunday, boom, you know,
1:30:21that's when most people come. So, that
1:30:23real estate is sitting dormant
1:30:26for most churches
1:30:29Monday through Saturday.
1:30:30>> Mhm. And those properties cost a lot of
1:30:34money.
1:30:35You people give, that money goes to
1:30:38purchase it.
1:30:40Uh you you get loans and you have to
1:30:42service the debt, and then there is
1:30:44maintenance. So, it's not like you get
1:30:47special breaks just because it's a
1:30:50religious building.
1:30:52>> Mhm. You do get some, you know, property
1:30:54taxes and stuff like that that uh
1:30:57because it's a nonprofit. But, for the
1:30:58most part, it costs a lot of money. But,
1:31:01yet it is very underutilized. So, about
1:31:0515 years ago, before I started our
1:31:07church,
1:31:09I just had this thought.
1:31:12Why
1:31:13is so much
1:31:15uh
1:31:17uh why are so many assets
1:31:19And I'm I'm going to say it like this.
1:31:21Let me just say that over again.
1:31:23So, about 15 years ago, I had this
1:31:25thought.
1:31:27Why
1:31:28is church real estate so underutilized?
1:31:32And how can church real estate be
1:31:35maximized
1:31:36for the kingdom of God?
1:31:38Most of the time
1:31:40uh churches do ministry
1:31:42to pay for real estate.
1:31:44Think about it.
1:31:45>> Mhm.
1:31:46We do ministry, we evangelize,
1:31:48[clears throat] we disciple, and people
1:31:51end up
1:31:52giving their lives to the Lord and
1:31:54sharing their resources through that
1:31:56ministry financially. And it goes to pay
1:32:00for the mortgage and all that stuff. So,
1:32:04ministry leads to
1:32:06the paying of real estate.
1:32:08Not just that, but a lot of that.
1:32:11>> I I wanted to flip it.
1:32:13Why can't real estate pay for ministry?
1:32:16Why can't you set up the property and
1:32:18the buildings where
1:32:20it will eventually end up paying for
1:32:23ministry?
1:32:24Which I believe is one of the ways where
1:32:26the wealth of the wicked, you know,
1:32:28stored up for the righteous. So, what we
1:32:31decided to do instead of looking for a
1:32:33traditional church property that we
1:32:35could only use on Sundays or Wednesday
1:32:38nights for ministry, we wanted to find a
1:32:40property that we could use for ministry,
1:32:44but that we could also use for other
1:32:48purposes. And these other purposes,
1:32:51uh we would charge people to use our
1:32:54building for conferences and different
1:32:57things, for meetings, all kind of
1:32:59things. It's an event center.
1:33:02And we would buy some of the surrounding
1:33:05buildings on the property. Uh we just
1:33:07bought the whole property. It's a a
1:33:09small a shopping mall, and those
1:33:12businesses would now pay us because we
1:33:15are the landlord.
1:33:17So, uh we waited and waited and prayed
1:33:23and waited on the right opportunity, and
1:33:25boom, we found it. So, we bought a
1:33:2716-acre
1:33:30uh shopping mall. And um and we're
1:33:33converting it a portion of it will be
1:33:36our church {slash} event center.
1:33:40Okay? Now, let me tell you one of the
1:33:42evangelistic strategies.
1:33:45Most people, when they walk through the
1:33:47doors of a church, are coming in that
1:33:50building for one reason, and that is to
1:33:52worship. Nothing is wrong with that.
1:33:55But what we're saying is we're going to
1:33:57use this asset that we just bought as a
1:34:01community asset. Yes, we're going to use
1:34:04it for church, but how about this
1:34:06community? You can use it for your kids'
1:34:08birthday parties. You can use it for
1:34:11weddings. You can you We're going to
1:34:13open up this kingdom facility
1:34:17to be used by the community. Now,
1:34:19there'll be some parameters around that.
1:34:21And we want to be a blessing
1:34:24to the community. We want you walking
1:34:26the halls
1:34:28of a building that God gave us. We want
1:34:32you interacting with people from our
1:34:34church. We want you drinking coffee and
1:34:37sitting and and doing your meetings in
1:34:40this
1:34:41holy building. Okay? That God gave us.
1:34:44So, it's just a different concept. It's
1:34:47a community hub,
1:34:49not just a place where we
1:34:51do ministry.
1:34:53So, you're going to By doing that,
1:34:54you're going to allow more people in the
1:34:56community to actually step foot into the
1:34:57building, become acquainted with the
1:34:59building. My guess is you'll probably
1:35:02uh at some point, if not yet, hire
1:35:05people from within the church to
1:35:07actually help facilitate that and
1:35:09maintain that. So, now you have
1:35:11disciples who are actually stewarding
1:35:14the culture of the
1:35:15business and the building
1:35:17for the people that are coming through.
1:35:19And then,
1:35:21the different shopping uh the the
1:35:23stores, the bays,
1:35:25>> the people who are leasing those, that
1:35:28lease revenue is going into the
1:35:30ministry.
1:35:31>> That's exactly right. That's what I'm
1:35:32talking about.
1:35:33>> have a little debt on the property, but
1:35:35eventually
1:35:36that debt will be paid off,
1:35:38and that
1:35:40income that we get from the leases will
1:35:42continue, and that's more money to do
1:35:44ministry, to spread the gospel.
1:35:47And we,
1:35:49by the grace of God, did the deal in
1:35:52such a way to where it would really it's
1:35:54going to be a big blessing for
1:35:56generations to come.
1:35:58So, did you go to a bank for the loan
1:36:00for that?
1:36:00>> Yes, and it was very difficult. Let me
1:36:02tell you why. Our finances were pristine
1:36:06because of the grace of God and because
1:36:07of the generosity of of our church
1:36:10family. However, the model was so
1:36:14different and unique the banks didn't
1:36:17know what to do with us because they
1:36:18said
1:36:19you're church, but you're not 100%
1:36:22church
1:36:23because you are landlord and you are
1:36:26landlord of commercial businesses.
1:36:30So, we can't put you in the church
1:36:31category.
1:36:32>> Yeah, it's not a church loan. Yeah, it's
1:36:34not a church loan. So, we couldn't get
1:36:36church loans.
1:36:38Then we try to get a commercial loan.
1:36:40Yeah, it's a commercial property
1:36:43but a lot of the income
1:36:45to buy this and will and that will
1:36:47sustain this still comes from a
1:36:49non-profit church.
1:36:51So, if the church
1:36:54stumbles and falls it will hurt the
1:36:57business
1:36:58and this is not a really a true
1:37:00commercial property.
1:37:02And we had banks
1:37:05and lenders to turn us down not because
1:37:11they did not want to do the deal.
1:37:14Not because it wasn't a good deal. It's
1:37:16because they didn't have a category for
1:37:19us.
1:37:21And the category was hybrid. Really? So,
1:37:24that is that what it ended up being?
1:37:25>> Yes, it's a hybrid and we had to find
1:37:27lenders and partners who understood the
1:37:31kingdom Wow. Oh my gosh.
1:37:33>> church and who understood marketplace
1:37:38business. Oh my gosh. Do you think it
1:37:41would have been easier if you just if
1:37:43you just categorize it as a commercial
1:37:45real estate investment versus the church
1:37:47component?
1:37:48>> It would have been and that's basically
1:37:50what we tried to do.
1:37:52But when you categorize it as a 100%
1:37:54commercial enterprise,
1:37:57they still study how you make your
1:37:59revenue.
1:38:00Oh.
1:38:00>> Because if they give you a loan, they
1:38:02want to scrutinize
1:38:04>> Sure.
1:38:04>> where the revenue comes from. Sure.
1:38:06Well, the majority of our revenue still
1:38:09comes from the charitable donations
1:38:12of people.
1:38:13When you That's how a church is built.
1:38:15Yeah.
1:38:16And that makes it
1:38:19a religious
1:38:21entity.
1:38:24And so they had like, "Wait a minute
1:38:25now. This is a great business concept,
1:38:28but to get this started you're relying
1:38:30on the charitable" So yeah, it was a
1:38:32very difficult thing
1:38:34>> gosh. to pull off. Okay, in hindsight,
1:38:37what would you do differently? Or
1:38:39>> Nothing.
1:38:40>> Really? Okay, here's here's the deal.
1:38:43I believe
1:38:45that this will be the future. Do you
1:38:47think this is the model?
1:38:48>> No doubt about it.
1:38:49>> Okay, let's talk about that.
1:38:50>> Okay, let's talk about it. So now let me
1:38:52tell you what the problems are Okay.
1:38:54>> first.
1:38:55And this was the problem when I first
1:38:57brought this up
1:38:59to our elders and our board
1:39:0210 or so years ago
1:39:05before we even had any money. This is
1:39:07just a dream of mine. The first
1:39:10pushback I got
1:39:12was, "Man, you're going to have other
1:39:13people doing stuff in God's house?
1:39:16Like a
1:39:19wedding reception?
1:39:21You know what I mean?
1:39:22Uh or a bar mitzvah?
1:39:25Or a secular whatever, birthday party?
1:39:31I said, "Yeah.
1:39:33If it's going to be for the community,
1:39:35it needs to be for the community. Now,
1:39:36we will have certain parameters that we
1:39:40certain things we won't allow." Like it
1:39:41won't become a strip club or
1:39:43>> It's not going to be a strip club. Thank
1:39:44God.
1:39:45>> You know, because politics is so
1:39:47divisive,
1:39:49we've decided that no, you can't have
1:39:51political rallies. It doesn't matter
1:39:53which side of the aisle you are on.
1:39:55>> Sure. We Because if we if we open it up
1:39:59to
1:40:00Democrats to do a certain function,
1:40:03which would be fine, then people would
1:40:05say, "Man, look at that church promoting
1:40:07the Democratic agenda."
1:40:08>> Yeah, sure. I see. If we open it up for
1:40:09a Republican So, there are certain
1:40:10things, man, we just won't allow. Sure.
1:40:13Okay?
1:40:14But,
1:40:15we do have a lot of leeway. Mhm. So,
1:40:18here's the problem.
1:40:20>> [snorts]
1:40:20>> A lot of people view the bricks and
1:40:23mortar
1:40:25as holy, as God's house, and it's only a
1:40:29place of worship.
1:40:32And I had to
1:40:35break that mentality.
1:40:37I said, "It is God's house,
1:40:40but this is a also a place of ministry.
1:40:43It's a place where we connect with the
1:40:45community. It's a marketplace.
1:40:48It's a place where we want people to
1:40:50mingle and to do business, and to build
1:40:53relationships, and to So, it's it's I
1:40:55expanded
1:40:57their
1:40:59their view of what bricks and mortar how
1:41:02bricks and mortar could be used for the
1:41:04kingdom.
1:41:06Okay? Uh
1:41:07They were some of the guys are like,
1:41:10"Well, man, it it's Wait a minute.
1:41:12Didn't Jesus kick the people out, you
1:41:14know, who were selling stuff?" And
1:41:15that's a whole people get that whole
1:41:17thing wrong, too. But, the bottom line
1:41:19is
1:41:20is we want it to be able to use this
1:41:23real estate
1:41:24to be a blessing to people, and to draw
1:41:27people in to our
1:41:30ecosystem,
1:41:32to our community,
1:41:34and to mingle with them
1:41:37and hopefully
1:41:39rub off on them.
1:41:41This beautiful
1:41:43thing that we have and that is the
1:41:46spirit of God. I think that's super
1:41:48cool.
1:41:50So, we got a lot of pushback.
1:41:51>> Mhm. No, I wouldn't say a lot, but from
1:41:53some of people who've just never thought
1:41:56of church property being used that way.
1:41:59And then we got some pushback, you know,
1:42:01from some very astute business people,
1:42:04bankers and lenders who were like,
1:42:06"You're going to do what? No, we're used
1:42:08to underwriting churches, we're used to
1:42:10underwriting businesses, but you're
1:42:11combining both of them?" I said, "Yeah.
1:42:14Yeah." And so, we had to pitch the model
1:42:17to some people and
1:42:19but I believe that this model is going
1:42:23to be a viable model in the days and the
1:42:28decades to come. Everybody won't do it,
1:42:31but there'll be some people doing it and
1:42:32there are other people doing it besides
1:42:34us Mhm. who are buying complexes.
1:42:38Okay, and using that commercial complex
1:42:41as a place to do ministry and
1:42:45other things. And while they're doing
1:42:48this this they are receiving the revenue
1:42:51and the cash flow from some of those
1:42:53other things that can be invested right
1:42:56back into the ministry. I I mean, I hope
1:42:58so. I I want to see I just want to see
1:43:01more ingenuity from the church and how
1:43:04to steward these resources for the sake
1:43:06of being the owner
1:43:09being the lender and not the borrower.
1:43:12Cuz I mean, hey, you're going to have
1:43:14more influence in that community by
1:43:17being the owner of that building and by
1:43:18being the owner of that
1:43:21shopping mall area That's right.
1:43:23>> than if you were just a renter in it.
1:43:25That's exactly right.
1:43:27Man, I'm telling you, you talk about
1:43:29owning
1:43:31property
1:43:34in a
1:43:36owning prime property
1:43:38in a community, it gives
1:43:40you a certain amount of clout and
1:43:43influence.
1:43:46But,
1:43:47the issue is how are you going to use
1:43:49that clout and influence?
1:43:51>> It can go to your head, you can think
1:43:52you're all that, or you can use it for
1:43:53the kingdom. And by the grace of God,
1:43:56that's what we're doing and that's what
1:43:57we plan on continuing to do.
1:44:00So, uh let's talk about some of the
1:44:02principles of stewardship. Okay? What do
1:44:04you say What would you say Actually, you
1:44:06know what?
1:44:08I'm going to do it this way. I think
1:44:09this will be This will be a fun little
1:44:10exercise. So, there's this trend that I
1:44:13see on social media
1:44:15where basically
1:44:18it's uh have you ever seen this where
1:44:19like
1:44:20someone lists out a a handful of
1:44:23different things
1:44:25and then the other person has to rank
1:44:27them. Yeah. Have you seen this?
1:44:29>> I have.
1:44:29>> Okay. So, the idea is you have S tier,
1:44:33which is like sigma that the that's the
1:44:34highest, then you have A, B, C,
1:44:39I think D and then just go straight to
1:44:41F. Okay.
1:44:42>> Okay? Okay. So, you can see that like
1:44:44sigma, alpha, beta, blah blah blah,
1:44:46okay?
1:44:46>> Okay.
1:44:47So, I'm going to give you a list of
1:44:49things. I'll give you one by one and you
1:44:51just categorize where they go.
1:44:52>> Okay.
1:44:53>> Okay? And then you got You only You can
1:44:54only give one sentence. So, you can't go
1:44:57on like a long
1:44:58>> Okay. explanation, but one reason why
1:45:00you put it in that in that area. Okay.
1:45:03You want to try it? Yes, try it, man.
1:45:04>> Okay. So, here's the first one.
1:45:07Uh having an emergency fund, 3 to 6
1:45:09months of expenses. What tier?
1:45:13A.
1:45:15Because the Bible says in Matthew 5:45
1:45:18that it rains on the just and the
1:45:20unjust. That means things will happen in
1:45:23life that you have no control over and
1:45:25you need to have an emergency fund to
1:45:28plan for it.
1:45:29Awesome.
1:45:30Next one.
1:45:32Debt elimination before wealth building.
1:45:37I'm going to say that is a
1:45:42B.
1:45:43Okay. This is awesome. I'm loving
1:45:45[laughter] this.
1:45:47Debt elimination
1:45:49is important
1:45:50but all debt is not the same.
1:45:52There is a such thing as stupid debt and
1:45:56strategic debt. And all debts have
1:45:59interest rates and the lower the
1:46:01interest rates, the longer you can take
1:46:03to pay it off if you want to because you
1:46:05can take the money and invest it in
1:46:07something that's a higher that can earn
1:46:10something.
1:46:10>> Yeah. So that's called a spread or
1:46:12arbitrage. So the bottom line is
1:46:15you should do both. You should you can
1:46:17build wealth and you can get out of debt
1:46:19at the same time, but you should get out
1:46:21of debt that is destructive.
1:46:24And be more aggressive about that than
1:46:26building wealth. Okay. But I want you to
1:46:28talk about the debt thing
1:46:30cuz you had a revelation about debt from
1:46:33the widow Yeah. with Elisha, I believe.
1:46:37So I just want you to share like the
1:46:39biblical principle behind that because
1:46:41we can read where it says those who
1:46:43um those who borrow are slave to the
1:46:45lender, which is obviously true.
1:46:48But you had a revelation about this kind
1:46:50of debt from that story which blew my
1:46:52mind. So just share that real quick.
1:46:53>> Okay. The Bible says in Proverbs 22:7,
1:46:56"Just as the rich rule the poor, so the
1:46:58borrower is a slave or servant to the
1:47:01lender." To be a slave or servant just
1:47:03means you don't have the freedom to do
1:47:06what you want to do. Mhm. That's what it
1:47:08means. You are obligated
1:47:11to do something for somebody else to
1:47:12either pay them or to work for them. So
1:47:14anybody that is in debt, whether it is
1:47:17so-called good debt or bad debt, you're
1:47:19still have an obligation to the lender,
1:47:23okay? And that could be a very onerous
1:47:26or uh burden-filled obligation, or it
1:47:29can be a lighter obligation, okay? But
1:47:32the Bible does not say that all debt is
1:47:36wrong or evil. If it did, why would the
1:47:40story of the widow and the oil
1:47:44uh
1:47:45be a great story of how to get out of
1:47:48debt? Because the prophet Elisha told
1:47:53her when she was broke, her husband had
1:47:56died, she only had a jar of oil in her
1:48:00house, and the first thing the prophet,
1:48:02who was like the pastor, told her to do,
1:48:05he first of all, he asked her a
1:48:06question. He said, "What do you have in
1:48:07your house?" In other words, many of us
1:48:10have the ability to get out of debt, and
1:48:13we just don't know it. Mhm.
1:48:15So, it So, then and yeah, we don't know
1:48:18it. We're looking for all these other
1:48:20ways, and and it's already inside of us.
1:48:24It may be through starting a a new
1:48:27business. It could be through a a bunch
1:48:29of things. But the bottom line, he said,
1:48:33"Go borrow vessels." And then he said,
1:48:37"Do not get a few."
1:48:40He told her to go borrow. She had to go
1:48:43borrow her inventory.
1:48:46So, and then he told her to pour that
1:48:49little bitty jar of oil
1:48:52in those vessels, and God miraculously
1:48:56um
1:48:58just
1:48:59increased the oil.
1:49:02So much so where it filled up all of
1:49:04these vessels.
1:49:06She was able to take those vessels full
1:49:09of oil and go sell them,
1:49:12pay off the debt, and then she still had
1:49:15enough money to live off of.
1:49:19The strategy
1:49:21was
1:49:22he still told her to go borrow.
1:49:26Why would he tell her to go do something
1:49:28that was evil?
1:49:30All borrowing is not evil. All borrowing
1:49:33is not bad.
1:49:35There is a such thing as stupid debt.
1:49:39>> Mhm.
1:49:40Dumb debt that gets people into trouble.
1:49:43And I hate to say this, most people use
1:49:46debt stupidly.
1:49:49If that's a word. Yeah.
1:49:52However, there is a such thing as
1:49:53strategic debt.
1:49:55That was strategic debt. She used debt
1:49:58to make more money.
1:50:00Wow. She used debt
1:50:03to um
1:50:05uh
1:50:07to increase
1:50:09and to get out of her situation.
1:50:12Okay? Cool. And then
1:50:14>> [snorts]
1:50:14>> so
1:50:15I tell people
1:50:18the best debt
1:50:20is no debt.
1:50:22But you can use debt strategically. And
1:50:25you don't have to feel bad that you use
1:50:28debt strategically.
1:50:30Now,
1:50:31what is strategic debt?
1:50:34A couple of things.
1:50:36Debt that is used to uh
1:50:40make money.
1:50:41Debt that is used for an asset that has
1:50:45the potential to increase.
1:50:47Debt that is used
1:50:49to take you to another level as an
1:50:51individual either through education or
1:50:54coaching or making you better as a
1:50:57person so you can go out and make more
1:50:58money and and and maximize your
1:51:01potential.
1:51:02Uh
1:51:03there are many positive ways to use
1:51:06debt.
1:51:07Okay?
1:51:08So, that's my take on debt. But there is
1:51:11one more thing about that story that a
1:51:13lot of people miss.
1:51:13>> Let's hear it.
1:51:14He says, "Go borrow vessels
1:51:17and do not get a few."
1:51:20And her blessing was based on
1:51:25how many vessels she borrowed.
1:51:28If she had borrowed a whole lot of
1:51:30vessels,
1:51:32that oil would have flowed and kept
1:51:35flowing.
1:51:35>> Mhm.
1:51:36So, her blessing, so to speak, was
1:51:39determined
1:51:41by how big she thought. Wow. Or how
1:51:43little she thought. Man. Or what she
1:51:46thought
1:51:47a few was.
1:51:49So, I'm saying
1:51:51that our mindset about wealth,
1:51:55about borrowing,
1:51:57about stewardship,
1:52:00um
1:52:03a lot of time it a lot of times it
1:52:06determines
1:52:08um
1:52:09our wealth-building capacity. Yeah.
1:52:12Because if our mindset is small and
1:52:14narrow,
1:52:16then we're going to
1:52:17that's what we're going to reap. Can I
1:52:19keep going with these ideas? Okay.
1:52:22So, you said emergency fund, A tier.
1:52:25Debt elimination before wealth building,
1:52:28B tier. Yes.
1:52:3010% tithe plus giving strategy.
1:52:34S. Top? Yes. Yep.
1:52:38In one sentence, why?
1:52:41Because everything we do, we should seek
1:52:44ye first the kingdom of God.
1:52:48And everything we do, including our
1:52:50finances. So, our first priority
1:52:54should be blessing God's kingdom. And
1:52:57when we do that, I believe God is free
1:53:00to bless us.
1:53:02Love it. So, index fund, like investing
1:53:05in an index fund passively.
1:53:08A. Okay.
1:53:10Because most actively managed funds
1:53:12can't beat
1:53:14the indexes that are managed passively.
1:53:18All right. Interesting. Next. Real
1:53:21estate as primary wealth vehicle.
1:53:26S.
1:53:27Really?
1:53:28>> Mhm.
1:53:29Do tell. Because real estate
1:53:34is the bedrock and the foundation of
1:53:37most
1:53:38wealth building in families for
1:53:41generations.
1:53:43And it brings stability to communities.
1:53:48Um so
1:53:51real estate
1:53:53also helps you to live better. You can
1:53:55live in it.
1:53:57And it typically increases over time and
1:54:00it's easy to understand.
1:54:03So yes, I believe real estate is the
1:54:05foundation of wealth built. Nice.
1:54:08Okay.
1:54:09Um
1:54:12multi-level marketing.
1:54:17C.
1:54:19That is because
1:54:21most people get into multi-level
1:54:25marketing
1:54:26to get rich quick.
1:54:29But the ones who get into it for the
1:54:32right reasons with a good product it is
1:54:35a viable legitimate business.
1:54:37>> Mhm. But that is not most people.
1:54:42Most people get into it to get rich
1:54:44quick.
1:54:46Okay. I'm going to give you industries.
1:54:49Um AI and tech.
1:54:52Investing in AI and tech or starting a
1:54:54business in AI AI and tech.
1:54:57AI.
1:54:58S.
1:55:00AI
1:55:02is
1:55:03what the internet was
1:55:0630 years ago.
1:55:10The internet was what
1:55:13technology was when it first came out 30
1:55:16years before then.
1:55:17Technology was what the Industrial
1:55:20Revolution was.
1:55:22You know, prior to that. In other words,
1:55:23every
1:55:25I'm going to say 30 or 40 years, there's
1:55:27just a massive shift in how we do life
1:55:30and how we do business.
1:55:32AI is the next big move.
1:55:36Going to college and getting a job.
1:55:40With your degree.
1:55:45Oh man, this is got
1:55:47>> but you're the stewardship coach. You
1:55:48got to tell us.
1:55:50Getting a job.
1:55:53A
1:55:55Going to college. C
1:56:00Going to college and a college degree,
1:56:03unless it unless it is very specialized
1:56:06has little to nothing to do with your
1:56:08wealth building potential.
1:56:11Getting a job, especially in a field
1:56:14that you're good in and that you love
1:56:16and that you can grow in
1:56:18will make you more money over time.
1:56:22And it is because of how the economy has
1:56:24changed.
1:56:25>> Mhm.
1:56:26There used to be a time where college
1:56:29degrees
1:56:31had a certain amount of cachet because
1:56:33you knew you were going to make more
1:56:35money.
1:56:36Like 90% of people over over than a
1:56:38person who did not have a college
1:56:40degree. That's been turned upside down
1:56:43and it's completely different now.
1:56:47White-collar jobs.
1:56:52D
1:56:54That's the first one you said that was a
1:56:55D. Yeah. Why?
1:56:58Because
1:56:59AI is going to be able to replace a lot
1:57:02of those white-collar jobs and AI is
1:57:05replacing a lot of them.
1:57:08And blue-collar jobs or specialized
1:57:12skilled jobs
1:57:14are going to be
1:57:17the way to go
1:57:21for the future. Now, there will be some
1:57:23white-collar jobs that will be
1:57:26heartly untouched,
1:57:28but
1:57:30blue-collar jobs
1:57:33working with your hands, plumbers,
1:57:34electricians, and I can name many other
1:57:37things won't be as affected by AI.
1:57:39>> Mhm.
1:57:40So, yes, I think white-collar jobs
1:57:43are losing and will continue to lose
1:57:47their appeal. So, if white-collar's D,
1:57:49what would you say blue-collar is?
1:57:52Blue-collar would be a uh
1:57:55a B.
1:57:57Yeah.
1:57:59I would call it a I would put it as a
1:58:01No, I'm sorry.
1:58:03Blue-collar would be an A.
1:58:06Blue-collar would be an A.
1:58:09Yeah.
1:58:10Well.
1:58:11Awesome.
1:58:12Well, Lee, this was a super fun
1:58:15conversation. I want people to be able
1:58:16to find your stuff. If people want to
1:58:18learn more about you, you got a coaching
1:58:20program that you're putting out to help
1:58:22people learn how to steward their uh
1:58:25their finances and ultimately not just
1:58:28for their own benefit, but to be a
1:58:30greater influence for the kingdom in the
1:58:32marketplace. How can they find you? Man,
1:58:35you can find me at The Stewardship
1:58:37Coach. That's my uh brand name, The
1:58:41Stewardship Coach, on Instagram, and you
1:58:44can find me on TikTok, and
1:58:48on YouTube. I'm starting a YouTube
1:58:51channel. Actually, it's already out
1:58:53there, but I'm going to be doing some
1:58:54long-form content. [music]
1:58:56And it's called the Stewardship Coach
1:58:59Podcast. Okay?
1:59:01But, there's another exciting thing. I'm
1:59:03launching a course
1:59:05in the next 30 to 45 days. And it's
1:59:08called Winning the Financial Game. I'm
1:59:12going to teach people how to win with
1:59:14money instead of how to lose with money.
1:59:17But, we're going to win by managing
1:59:19money God's way. So, I'm going to be
1:59:21launching that course and a community to
1:59:24go along with that course for people who
1:59:26want to learn how to do that. Cool?
1:59:29Lee, this is awesome, man. I hope to
1:59:31have you back soon. Man, this has been a
1:59:32great conversation, man. And I so admire
1:59:36what you do. And thank you for having
1:59:38me. Yeah, of course. God bless you, man.

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