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When Your Pathological Liar Ex-Boyfriend Kills His Family | Chandler Halderson — Transcript

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0:00It's relatively unlikely that you've
0:01ever known someone who is a pathological
0:03liar in your day-to-day life or at the
0:05very least it's unlikely that you're
0:07aware that that person lies as much as
0:09they actually do though the research
0:10into pathological Liars is incredibly
0:12limited they are exceedingly rare which
0:14can make stories of their behavior even
0:16harder to believe we've all experienced
0:18a person who is prone to lie about
0:20things and maybe you've experienced
0:22someone who lies about things that
0:23seemingly don't matter but most of those
0:25cases aren't the same as dealing with an
0:27actual pathological liar maybe that
0:29person was in cure about their social
0:31standing and chose to lie to avoid
0:32embarrassment perhaps they were simply
0:34nervous or maybe they lied because it
0:36felt easier than telling the truth
0:38usually in those cases though the lying
0:40feels nonsensical and stupid to others
0:42it doesn't mean that that person is
0:44being malicious but that is not the case
0:46here today we are talking about a person
0:48who would lie about who they are what
0:50they do and why they do it someone who
0:52fabricated an entire alternate life for
0:54themselves where they're on a hero's
0:56journey overcoming all the odds and
0:58trying to make their way in the world
0:59when real all they do during the day is
1:01play video games and waste their own
1:03time a person who was so deeply
1:05dedicated to their own lives that they
1:06spent thousands of dollars to supplement
1:08them and would go on to force the people
1:10they care for the most into waiting on
1:12them hand and foot simply because they
1:14didn't want to be held at the same
1:15standard as every other adult in their
1:17life when victims of pathological Liars
1:20discuss their time with them they are
1:21often met with skepticism for most
1:23people the simple idea of someone
1:25spending as much time and energy
1:27creating a false existence seems
1:29ridiculous why would someone lie that
1:31much wouldn't it be easier to just do
1:33the thing that they're lying about is a
1:35common response and they aren't wrong
1:37logically it would be easier for the
1:39person to just get a 9o5 or go to school
1:42and to go about their life and because
1:44the lies and scenarios surrounding the
1:46person continue to expand the victims
1:48will have a hard time relaying what
1:49occurred without feeling some sort of
1:51Shame and embarrassment they will talk
1:53about how this person hurt them how they
1:55convinced them that they were on the
1:56right track through more convoluted and
1:58strange stories and people will lose the
2:00ability to empathize how did you not
2:02know they were lying it's so obvious
2:04they will say completely unaware that
2:06everything is obvious in hindsight they
2:08will discount the links the person would
2:10go to to amplify their lies and how most
2:12people are inclined to ignore red flags
2:14when they love someone and there is no
2:16better example of that than in today's
2:18case welcome back to another episode of
2:20dreading or if this is your first time
2:22here welcome today we are going to be
2:24revisiting the case of Chandler
2:25halderson and reviewing his
2:27ex-girlfriend's time on the stand we
2:29already covered her police interviews in
2:31which she unknowingly destroyed
2:32Chandler's aliis and provided direct
2:35evidence that he was solely responsible
2:36for his parents demise and since that
2:38time we've been asked to review her
2:40testimony and discuss how long it took
2:42her to extract herself from Chandler's
2:44Web of Lies a link will be left below to
2:46the trial footage as well as to our
2:48coverage of the case that way if this is
2:50your first time hearing about this you
2:52can fully apprise yourself of all the
2:54relevant details I'll also leave a link
2:56down below to the lead Prosecutor's
2:58opening statement in the case as is by
3:00far one of the best lawyers we've ever
3:02watched if you watch any video Linked In
3:03the description box down below let it be
3:06that one it's simply that good this
3:08video like the majority that we cover on
3:09the channel was widely requested by
3:11viewers like you in fact we've gotten
3:13over 200 emails and comments asking us
3:16to cover her testimony and we felt it
3:18was a good time to finally give the
3:19people what they've been asking for as
3:21always if there's a video you would like
3:22to see on the channel or a topic you
3:24would like more attention brought to let
3:26me know by emailing me at dreading
3:28official gmail.com though we no longer
3:30respond directly to emails I'm
3:32constantly going through your
3:33suggestions and adding them to the list
3:35of topics for us to cover as it
3:36currently stands we have about a few
3:38thousand topics that we need to cover so
3:40our turnaround time might not be the
3:42best but I assure you if you send it we
3:44will do our best so with all of that
3:46said let us
3:49begin when Chandler Howers graduated
3:51high school he was excited to get out of
3:53his parents home into mature into the
3:55adult that he always wanted to be he
3:57believed that he would be going places
3:59that the world would open up to him and
4:00like his older brother Mitchell he would
4:02be able to really make a name for
4:03himself but by the end of his first
4:05semester Chandler's plans had fallen
4:07apart he had flunked out of college and
4:09was forced to move back home with his
4:11parents Barton Christa and all he could
4:13say for himself is that University just
4:15didn't seem to be for him he placed the
4:17blame for his academic failure onto
4:19others telling his parents that it was
4:20the setting then his roommates then the
4:22college itself that kept him from
4:24achieving the way he had done in high
4:25school regardless of the exact reason he
4:28assured his parents that he didn't want
4:29want to rely on their kindness for too
4:31long and that he would be out of their
4:32hair as soon as feasibly possible he
4:35told Bart and Christa that he would be
4:36going to a local community college in
4:38order to transfer to a university of his
4:40choice and that he would be getting a
4:42job to further support that goal Bart
4:44believing his son but also wanting to
4:46make sure that he stayed motivated to
4:48move agreed to let Chandler stay but
4:50added the stipulation that he was to pay
4:52a small amount of rent Chandler however
4:54had no plans of doing any of those
4:56things he would eventually devise a plan
4:58on how to ensure that everyone in his
5:00life believed he was working extremely
5:02hard even when it seemed like he was
5:04doing virtually nothing of importance he
5:06was 19 an adult and his father was busy
5:08remodeling the family home and taking
5:10care of Christa who was recovering from
5:12skin cancer both parents trusted
5:14Chandler at his word and though they
5:16wanted him to move on with his life they
5:18believed him when he said he was trying
5:20his best as did his longtime girlfriend
5:22Catherine who he will call cat for the
5:24duration of this video and he would of
5:26course abuse that belief instead of
5:28enrolling in community College as he
5:30said or getting a job Chandler simply
5:32pretended to do those things he made
5:34fake College course schedules would
5:36pretend to be in class online during
5:38those designated hours and even went so
5:40far as to complete fake coursework so
5:43that his parents would see him working
5:44and trust that he was actually doing
5:46what he said in that same vein Chandler
5:48would break off plans with cat because
5:50he needed to study or buy books related
5:52to the courses that he wasn't actually
5:54taking and ask his parents and
5:56girlfriend to quiz him on the coursework
5:58throughout the semester further
5:59emphasizing that he was trying his best
6:01to make up for his academic failure the
6:03very concept that he would lie about
6:05something that they were watching him do
6:07never occurred to them so why do it if
6:09someone says they're working hard and
6:11every time you see them they're studying
6:12writing or working you wouldn't just be
6:14taking their word for it you'd be
6:16witnessing it it also didn't help that
6:17the classes he was taking were related
6:19to it and computers two things Bart and
6:22Christa knew relatively little about he
6:24could say anything to them and they
6:25would likely believe it the only issue
6:27came about when Bart told Chandler that
6:29he needed a copy of his course
6:31transcripts for his taxes Chandler
6:33quickly agreed to provide transcripts to
6:35his father despite knowing that they
6:36didn't exist instead Chandler came up
6:39with a plan to avoid giving the
6:40documents to his dad one that wouldn't
6:42result in him committing tax fraud he
6:44wasn't going to admit that he lied as
6:46that would lead to Bart being
6:47disappointed in him and potentially
6:49kicking him out of the family home no he
6:51needed a plan that made him look like a
6:53victim and made his parents want to take
6:55care of him even more like a little tiny
6:58baby so that night he created a fake
7:00email account for an academic adviser
7:02working at the community college and
7:04began emailing himself back and forth
7:06providing different reasons as to why
7:08the transcripts could not be handed over
7:10when his father would ask about the
7:11transcripts later on Chandler would
7:13provide the fabricated correspondence
7:16showing that he had done what his father
7:17had asked but he had been blocked by
7:19incompetence it seemed that he had hoped
7:21that these emails would annoy his father
7:23so much that he would simply give up on
7:25them that Bart would decide that he
7:27simply didn't want to properly file the
7:29taxes because it was too much of a
7:30hassle but the opposite was true Bart
7:33was determined and asked Chandler to add
7:35him to the email chain hoping that he
7:37would be able to get the results where
7:38his son couldn't Chandler would do so
7:40and also made more fake accounts to the
7:42interaction as if the complaint was
7:44being moved up the school's chain of
7:47command it's just Chandler with a
7:49mustache I digress each of these new
7:52characters was just as incompetent and
7:54unable to help as the first one with
7:55Chandler trying to annoy his father into
7:57passivity but Bart was not moved while
8:00this was going on Chandler was also
8:02doing the same thing with his job
8:03choosing to fake his employment status
8:05versus actually working he told his
8:07parents and his girlfriend that he had
8:09begun working remotely at an insurance
8:11firm he claimed that he was hired on as
8:13a salaried position given his schooling
8:15and his obvious intelligence he boasted
8:18about the money that he would be making
8:19at this job telling his girlfriend that
8:21he would be able to take care of her
8:22financially and informed his parents
8:24that with the money he would be earning
8:26it wouldn't be too long until he could
8:27move out but obviously that would never
8:30happen like with his schooling he
8:31created a fake work routine starting at
8:336:00 a.m. and would pretend to be on
8:35corporate business calls while his
8:37parents were in the home even though he
8:39was playing video games online if his
8:41parents ever sat in or listened closely
8:43to the calls he had roped his gamer
8:45friends into the charade as well leaving
8:47Bart Christa and Cat none the wiser the
8:49only issue besides the obvious was that
8:51this fake job didn't pay and Chandler
8:53was still completely unable to pay the
8:55modest rent that his parents had asked
8:57for or provide for himself in any Capac
8:59capacity he was solely relying on the
9:01charity of his mom and girlfriend both
9:03of whom believed he was working hard to
9:05get himself back on his feet like with
9:06his schooling he engineered another
9:08solution that would ensure that he was
9:10seen as a victim in the circumstance and
9:12would result in the people he was
9:14blatantly using to continue to provide
9:16for him he was eventually questioned
9:17about why he had no money with such a
9:19high-paying job his excuse being that
9:21the firm that paid him seemingly put him
9:23as an hourly employee and not salaried
9:26and they were working to fix the problem
9:27the money he said had to be returned to
9:29the firm in the meantime every few weeks
9:32he had new excuses as to why the money
9:34was being kept from him and it became
9:35clear that Bart at least was losing
9:37patience with his son either Chandler
9:39was incredibly unlucky when it came to
9:41taking care of himself or he was simply
9:43lying but again he had seen Chandler
9:45take business calls heard him lecture
9:47about the subject and he had helped him
9:49study repeatedly it seemed ridiculous
9:51that the boy he had raised would go
9:52through all that effort instead of going
9:54to school or getting a job but as the
9:56lies continued to stack up he became
9:58more and more susp icious Chandler was
10:00well aware that his dad was no longer
10:02buying his lies and began to rely a bit
10:04more heavily on Cat and her mother Dolce
10:07he needed to keep them on his side while
10:09ensuring that they never spoke to his
10:11parents lest his lies be found out it's
10:13also extremely common place for someone
10:15who lies as much as Chandler did to sew
10:17Discord between friends and family
10:19members as they often lose track of what
10:21lies they told each party to put it in
10:24simpler terms let's say that Chandler
10:26told cat that he gets paid every other
10:28week but he told his parents that he
10:29gets paid weekly it's a small lie one
10:32that likely wouldn't come up but if they
10:33were to talk about it it had the
10:35potential to expose all of his lies to
10:37both parties so in order to make sure
10:39that didn't happen he tells his parents
10:41that cat doesn't want to come over
10:42during the renovations because the dust
10:45upset her allergies and he tells cat
10:47that his parents think she's a bad
10:48influence and that she isn't allowed to
10:50come over there anymore he explained to
10:52cat that even though she had a friendly
10:54relationship with his mother that she
10:56actually didn't like her and they didn't
10:57want her over he also told her about the
10:59intense pressure he was living under and
11:01his parents were badgering him day in
11:03and day out he once again made himself
11:05into the victim and no one was more
11:07convinced of this than cat's mom Dolce
11:10she repeatedly told Chandler that if he
11:12wanted to move in with them he could
11:13rent free and vocally disparaged his
11:16parents believing they were being cruel
11:18to her daughter and her future
11:19son-in-law but these were just the start
11:21of the lies he would tell after a few
11:23months of lying about his insurance job
11:25he became vocally dissatisfied with the
11:27position and announced he would be
11:29looking for a new job shortly thereafter
11:31he stated that he had applied for a job
11:33at SpaceX in Florida and had passed
11:35multiple rounds of interviews and had
11:37been properly hired this job like the
11:39one at the insurance agency was going to
11:41be extremely high paying with him being
11:43able to support himself his girlfriend
11:46as well as purchase a luxury home in the
11:48Sunshine State he told everyone in his
11:50life that he would be moving on and even
11:52went so far as to begin looking at homes
11:54with cat promising her that they would
11:56be able to afford whatever it was that
11:58she wanted of course this would never
12:00come to pass but no one besides Chandler
12:02knew that they were all genuinely happy
12:04for him and hopeful that this job would
12:06turn his life around but as the date
12:08approached the young man faked a fall
12:10down the stairs and claimed that he had
12:12a traumatic brain injury that kept him
12:14from walking driving and taking care of
12:16himself in any real
12:19way oh God okay all he could handle he
12:23claimed was playing video games in the
12:25dark and sleeping how convenient but
12:27eventually all of Chandler lies would
12:29come tumbling down Bart had called the
12:31school that Chandler had pretended to
12:33attend and found out that his son had
12:35lied to him about everything he never
12:37attended classes remotely there was no
12:39internship that led to employment with
12:41the insurance agency and for nearly a
12:43year his son had lied to him about every
12:45aspect of his life but instead of
12:47telling Chandler directly he scheduled
12:49an in-person meeting for him and his son
12:51at the school what he planned to achieve
12:53at this meeting we will never know
12:55because Chandler would go on to kill
12:57both Bart and Christa when he realized
12:58that his lies had been discovered after
13:01killing the two people who loved him the
13:02most in the world Chandler set about
13:04dismembering their bodies he then tried
13:06to incinerate their remains in the
13:08family's fireplace not understanding
13:10that that kind of Destruction cannot be
13:12accomplished in a standard home he had
13:14killed his parents on July 1st prior to
13:16the 4th of July holiday and hoped that
13:18the national celebration would serve as
13:20a distraction for his parents absence he
13:23believed that their friends and
13:24co-workers would think that they had
13:26gone to their cabin or somewhere outside
13:28the city to celebrate giving him the
13:29entire weekend to dispose of their
13:31remains but that didn't stop him from
13:33seeing and sleeping with cat while his
13:35parents body parts were in the home
13:37Chandler invited his girlfriend over he
13:39continued his medical charade with her
13:41insisting that he couldn't stand for
13:42long periods of time asking her to take
13:44care of him when she would eventually
13:46leave at his insistence he would set out
13:48to discard his parents dismembered
13:50bodies around the area for the full
13:52details watch either our first video on
13:54the subject or a video going over cat's
13:56interrogation where she accidentally
13:58provided evidence that proved that
14:00Chandler had killed his parents both are
14:02linked
14:03below before we go any further it's
14:06imperative that we move forward with the
14:08understanding that cat is also a victim
14:09of Chandler howson of course not to the
14:12degree of his parents but this man had
14:14distorted her reality to the point where
14:16even after the evidence she provided to
14:18the police led to his arrest she still
14:20didn't think he had done it he spent
14:22months telling her that he was still
14:23going to school asking her to help him
14:26study and getting mad at her when she
14:27tried to hang out with him when he was
14:29supposedly at school he told her that he
14:31got a job at an insurance Firm made up
14:33other people who worked there that he
14:35was friendly with and gave her his work
14:37schedule so she would know when he would
14:39and wouldn't be available to hang out he
14:41created fictional conflicts with his
14:43co-workers and classmates and convinced
14:45cat that his parents didn't like her so
14:47she would be less inclined to come over
14:49and then went further to say he was
14:51offered a job at SpaceX in Florida
14:53asking her to move with him which she
14:55agreed to this was the man she was
14:57planning on marrying her partner who she
15:00wanted to build a life with the idea
15:02that he would lie about any of those
15:03things let alone all of them was
15:05unfathomable to her he just so happened
15:07to be incredibly unlucky and when the
15:09truth was eventually revealed she could
15:11not fully believe it in her mind it was
15:13easier to think that the police had made
15:15a mistake that they were falsely
15:16accusing her boyfriend of murder than to
15:18acknowledge that everything she knew
15:20about the man she loved was false he had
15:22lied about his family his home life his
15:24schooling his job twice over and his
15:26health everything she knew about him had
15:28been a fabric ation carefully crafted to
15:30allow him to spend the majority of his
15:32day in bed with his parents and her
15:34taking care of him but as far as she
15:36knew the man she loved wouldn't do that
15:38she believed that the trial would
15:40exonerate him that eventually it would
15:41be proven that he could not be behind
15:43the murder of his parents that he had
15:45suffered a traumatic brain injury and
15:47all of this had been a misunderstanding
15:49but by the time she took the stand it
15:50seemed that she had begun to come to
15:52terms with the person Chandler was while
15:54we may never know for sure what caused
15:56cat to realize that he was the one
15:58responsible I for his parents murder it
16:00was likely seeing the entire case laid
16:02out before her during the trial so with
16:04all of that said let us
16:07begin could you please State and spell
16:09your name for us uh Katherine melander c
16:12a t h r y n melander m e l l e n d e r
16:18ask you to grab the base of the
16:19microphone and pull it really close cu
16:21the fans are on that creates a level of
16:23noise your voice is on the softer side
16:25and you have a mask so okay being up
16:28really close to we make sure we can all
16:29hear thank you goe you go by cat correct
16:33correct can I call you cat today yes
16:34please okay um cat um how old are you
16:38I'm 21 years of age and um do you live
16:41here in in the Madison area I do live in
16:43the Madison area okay and do you know
16:46someone named Chandler hollers I do how
16:48do you know Chandler we were in a
16:50relationship okay um at this point um
16:53something's going to happen the judge is
16:54going to ask everyone out here to lower
16:56their mask and I'm going to ask you if
16:57you see Chandler in the courtroom
16:59before we go any further we should note
17:01how heavily cat is breathing obviously
17:03testifying in court is a stressful
17:05Endeavor one most people try to avoid if
17:07they can help it in our coverage of
17:09other men and women who have taken the
17:10stand they have attempted to conceal any
17:12nerves that they have but it's apparent
17:14that cat cannot do that every breath she
17:16takes is a deep one as if she's trying
17:18to calm herself down and that's likely
17:21what is happening this will continue
17:22throughout the testimony so if you are
17:24sensitive to or hate breathing noises
17:26this video will likely not be the one
17:28for you we should also note that cat
17:30does not handle stress very well in her
17:32original videos with the police she
17:34repeatedly stated that when she gets
17:35nervous or stressed she throws up she
17:37also stated that this keeps her from
17:39lying as she gets so nervous that she
17:41will probably throw up as well so her
17:43breathing is her body's attempt to calm
17:45her down so she doesn't vomit the
17:47strange things we're going to do so the
17:49judge will go don't say anything until
17:51everybody has REM masked if everyone can
17:52lower their masks for a count of three
17:54one everybody within the courtroom uh
17:57except in the jury box 1 two three
17:59replace your masks is Chandler in the
18:01room here today yes can you tell me
18:03where he's sitting and describe what
18:04he's wearing he's over there with a blue
18:07tie and a blazer i' ask the record to
18:09reflect the identification of the
18:10defendant it shall thank you uh when did
18:12you first uh begin your relationship
18:14with Chandler um in August
18:182019 um and how did you meet uh we met
18:22through a
18:23friend um what was Chandler kind of what
18:26was going on in his life when you first
18:27met what was he doing with his life
18:29um he was attending college he was
18:33living at home and preparing to move
18:34into an
18:36apartment um dog sitting quite often the
18:40only thing true about that statement was
18:42the fact that Chandler was dog sitting
18:44often that was the only way he earned
18:46any sort of money but it wasn't nearly
18:47as often as he would have cat believe
18:50but this is the very beginning of their
18:51relationship when he would have just met
18:53her and they began to get to know each
18:54other and he is already lying to her
18:56about everything he has going on in some
18:59reports on this case people will
19:00theorize that Chandler had only begun to
19:02lie out of embarrassment well into his
19:04relationship with Catherine but that is
19:06far from the case he was lying from the
19:09start and where were you in life what
19:11were you up to when you first met back
19:12in
19:132019 uh when I first met Chandler
19:16I was going to school as well um part of
19:20student Senate doing shows um in the
19:24theater
19:26Department what types of things did you
19:29and Chandler do in your relationship did
19:30you go on a lot of dates together uh
19:33yeah we would um grab dinners um have
19:37movie dates just sit at home and watch
19:40movies um go on walks quite often play
19:44with the dogs um that was a big thing we
19:47loved playing frisbee with the
19:49dogs um start shows together sure
19:55um around 2019 and 2020 and then um
19:59obviously um into this year a little bit
20:02or into last year 2021 um how would you
20:05and Chandler communicate um with each
20:07other just by calling each other or were
20:09there other things too um we would talk
20:12on Snapchat text FaceTime and call quite
20:15often okay um would you also um so it's
20:20text Snapchat call FaceTime M would
20:24sometimes you start communicating about
20:26a subject on one and then switch to
20:28another and then switch back yes um fair
20:31to say you communicated or you texted a
20:33lot with Chandler yes um and uh you've
20:39seen in this case probably at some point
20:41printouts of even just a couple of days
20:43of your text messages which are hundreds
20:45of pages long right yes okay um did you
20:49have any sort of relationship with um
20:51Chandler's family yes um let's start um
20:55with his brother Mitchell um did you
20:57know Mitchell I did know Mitchell tell
20:59me about your relationship with Mitchell
21:01um I would hang out with him at the
21:04family events uh be at like a dinner for
21:07the
21:08holidays um we had a game night at his
21:10home once with Caitlyn and Chandler and
21:13myself um usually see him during family
21:17events okay um what about um let's start
21:21with Bart did you have a relationship or
21:22how how did you know Bart
21:24holders I uh knew Mr holders through
21:27Chandler um
21:30I would be at their home quite often
21:32and he would
21:37um he would uh show me fishing
21:42tips or if I was cooking uh him and Mrs
21:46hollers would be in the kitchen and we
21:48would have game nights quite
21:50often and we would also um play Mario
21:53Kart together a lot okay it's obvious
21:57now that Catherine is an incredibly
21:59sensitive person as she is deeply upset
22:01and heartbroken remembering the time
22:03that she shared with the Howers family
22:05it's clear that she really cared for
22:06them and believes they were good people
22:09despite what Chandler would have her
22:10believe I pause here because her
22:12reaction to remembering the family is
22:14marketly different than Chandlers even
22:16days after killing and dismembering them
22:18in his initial interviews he showed
22:20emotion and didn't even attempt to feain
22:22worry about his parents being gone he
22:24said he was worried but he was
22:25emotionless and withdrawn only asking
22:28the police questions to see if they knew
22:30he was responsible in this way cat is
22:32the perfect foil to Chandler where he
22:34lies about everything she physically is
22:36unable to where he has no emotion she is
22:39deeply affected by what's going on
22:40around her and unfortunately this is
22:42likely the reason that Chandler was
22:44drawn to her in the first place
22:45manipulative people will gravitate to
22:47the empathetic and kind knowing that
22:49they will give them the benefit of the
22:50doubt even when it doesn't necessarily
22:52make any sense Chandler likely mirrored
22:55cat throughout the relationship making
22:56it seem as if he held the same state
22:58standards that she did and wanted the
23:00same things out of life cat was
23:01hardworking kind and well-liked all
23:04Chandler wanted to do was play video
23:05games and Sherk every possible
23:07responsibility she was exactly the type
23:09of person who would drop everything to
23:11take care of her friends and family and
23:13the type of person who would believe
23:14Chandler had a traumatic brain injury
23:16that meant she would have to take care
23:18of him for the remainder of their
23:19relationship and she was more than okay
23:21with that in their text message
23:23exchanges that took place after his
23:24pretend fall he would repeatedly tell
23:26her that she deserved better that he
23:28could no longer be the partner that he
23:30felt that she deserved and that she
23:31should have moved on with her life that
23:33of course was not genuine if he wanted
23:35to be that person nothing was stopping
23:37him he just wanted reassurance that she
23:39would never leave him and she gave him
23:41that in response she would always state
23:43that she loved him and wanted to be with
23:44him no matter what that she would take
23:46care of him and nothing could get in the
23:48way of that the amount of emotional
23:49manipulation that he put her through is
23:51hard to comprehend because absolutely
23:53nothing he said to her was true the
23:55person she thought he was never existed
23:57the life she lived with with him was
23:58almost entirely false and trying to
24:00trust again after that kind of
24:02psychological manipulation is almost
24:06impossible clean there for you I have
24:09aief go ahead and take a
24:19moment what about Christa could you tell
24:21me about your relationship with Christa
24:24holders Mrs holders and I we would text
24:27often about
24:29what we're doing in our lives and talk
24:31about the dogs and Chandler and
24:37like we would talk about recipes and
24:40food we want to try and if I was cooking
24:44them something from uh my culture she
24:47would always be excited and we talk
24:49about it and always talk about game
24:51nights and wanting to do a girl's trip
24:54to Disneyland
24:56together with her I and Kate one okay
25:00obviously she was close to the family
25:02but what she just said here is important
25:04as we stated Chandler told her that his
25:06family didn't actually like her that
25:08they thought she was a poor influence
25:09and didn't want her around now assess
25:11what she just said Christa and her were
25:13good friends wanting to travel and hang
25:15out without Chandler and for no other
25:17reason than not wanting his lies to be
25:19found out he convinced her that that was
25:21not the truth that Christa was lying
25:23about wanting to go to Disneyland and
25:24see her of course that's not the biggest
25:26or most impactful lie that he's ever
25:28were told and amongst his crimes it
25:30seems unimportant but it goes to show
25:32just how willing he was to hurt the
25:33people around him in order to get what
25:35he wanted Krista Loved Cat and she felt
25:38the same they were close and he was
25:39willing to hurt the person he said he
25:41loved the most for no reason that felt
25:43easier than simply getting a job or
25:45telling the truth um you texted often
25:49with Mrs yes I did um positive
25:53relationship a good relationship yeah
25:55did you like her I did like Miss hollers
25:58lot did you like Mr halderson yes I did
26:02um were you over you were over at the
26:04halderson home quite a bit very often
26:06yes and that's uh over in Windsor Oak
26:08Spring Circle I'm going to object to
26:11Leading I'm Sor that's fine I'll sure
26:16where questions we'll withdraw the
26:18question and I'll ask it again
26:19whereabouts did the halderson live they
26:22lived in Windsor
26:26um past
26:30um that big church I don't know the road
26:33of it but it was past a big church right
26:35by a
26:37pond um when you were over at the the
26:40house um did you mostly stick in one
26:42spot or did you kind of treat it like
26:44your own home go wherever you needed to
26:46go I would go wherever I needed to go
26:48within reason okay back in
26:52um June of this year just before maybe
26:56everything that we're going to talk
26:57about happen um were you over at the
26:59halderson home and had an occasion to
27:00maybe go in the basement yes um why did
27:03you go in the basement while you were
27:04over there I went into the basement to
27:06grab um ice cream and soda to make root
27:09beer floats with Mr Mrs halderson and
27:11Chandler and this is sometime in when is
27:13it June okay um and where we why were
27:18you going to the basement to grab those
27:19items were there where were they they
27:21were in the basement they were in the
27:22basement in the freezer okay the
27:24halderson had a freezer in the basement
27:28there's leading questions going
27:30on uh I'll sustain go ahead and phrase
27:33carefully tell me about uh what freezers
27:35the Hon's
27:37head they had um a chest freezer and
27:40then a tall one kind of like a fridge
27:43but it was just a freezer okay and did
27:47you have an occasion ever to go in the
27:48chest freezer yes uh and what types of
27:51things were in there uh mostly fish
27:54specifically
27:55salmon veggies
27:59um sometimes they'd keep ice bags in
28:01there was it full yes uh the other
28:05freezer did you have occasions to go on
28:06that on occasion uh just once okay and
28:10was it being used in full yes okay is
28:14there a screen on in front of you right
28:16now yes okay I'm going to show you
28:18exhibit 21 been received into evidence
28:20in this
28:24case I think we went too far judge
28:28there was a happy medium there in the
28:30second no that's what we
28:40discussed is the Elmo
28:48on there we go um there's a little bit
28:51of a glare on that but is that um looked
28:54to be the halderson basement or
28:55something else yes it's the halderson
28:58basement and that chest freezer that's
29:01open right there is that the chest
29:02freezer that you had been in previously
29:04yes and was it full when you saw it in
29:06June yes um was it sitting like that
29:09open when you saw it last no
29:12okay was it in that General location
29:15when you saw it
29:18[Music]
29:25last yes
29:31in your relationship with Chandler um
29:34was there a lot of discussion about um
29:37[Music]
29:40money yes um was it important to you
29:44that whoever you were dating have a job
29:47or going to school or something yes can
29:50you tell me why that would be
29:51[Music]
29:55important um
29:57[Music]
29:59just think being
30:01self-sufficient okay it's either in
30:04school or working okay um as far as you
30:09knew in
30:112020 and this year even 2021 let's say
30:14the spring of of last year um was
30:18Chandler going to school yes did he talk
30:21about that with you yes what did you
30:23know about where Chandler was going to
30:25school and what he was doing
30:28he was
30:30um taking classes
30:33online through MATC for
30:37UW and it was for an IT
30:40degree would Chandler talk a lot about
30:43school with
30:45you often um what kind of things would
30:48you talk
30:50about when we'd have tests
30:53or homework that we were
30:56doing going into to in this year did did
30:59he ever show you any sort of like work
31:00he was doing for school any projects
31:02things like that um he showed me some
31:05coding he was doing once for a
31:10class
31:13um you said he was going online did
31:15Chandler ever physically go there as far
31:17as you
31:19knew for a
31:23class I don't
31:26remember um
31:28this spring going into the summer prior
31:31to everything happening did you believe
31:33Chandler was going to
31:34MATC yes did you ever see um his grades
31:39did you ever share his grades with you
31:40or transcripts or anything like
31:43that no he didn't show
31:46me um do you know how close he was to
31:49graduating uh one class away I
31:56believed one of the key things about
31:58Chandler's lies is that they all came
32:00with a time limit they weren't quick and
32:01easy fibs that he only told to get
32:03people on his side or to like him his
32:05fake jobs didn't produce real money so
32:07he would either need to find a way to
32:09get his own income so that his lies
32:11could be believable or he would have to
32:12make up more lies his fake schooling
32:14could only go on for so long because
32:16eventually he would be expected to
32:18graduate something that was obviously
32:20impossible for him to do no matter what
32:22exact lies he told or who exposed his
32:24lies eventually he would have been
32:26caught there's no version of a where
32:28Chandler would be able to get away with
32:29his manipulation and it's likely that if
32:32cat had been the one to discover that he
32:33faked his schooling and lied about his
32:35employment or Faked his injury she would
32:37have been the one he
32:40killed did you and Chandler ever talk
32:42about um him working with the police at
32:45all with scuba diving or anything like
32:52that with the DNR sure tell me about
32:55that um
32:58he told me he would scuba die for the
33:00DNR and
33:02then sometimes help out the police
33:04through the DNR did he say what he would
33:06do for them like
33:08specifically scuba
33:11diving look in the lakes for
33:14stuff was this like a a job or a
33:17volunteer thing what was your
33:18understanding from
33:20Chandler I believe it was a
33:23job and did he have this throughout the
33:26time you were dating
33:28during the summer okay this was another
33:32thing he lied about again the life
33:34Chandler was pretending to live was
33:35incredibly exciting he helped the police
33:37when they needed divers to look for dead
33:39bodies or evidence in the Madison area
33:42he was working remotely for an insurance
33:43firm that in theory was going to pay him
33:46extremely well he was also studying for
33:48an IT degree with the hopes of moving to
33:50Florida to work for SpaceX his life
33:52apparently was a dream and none of it
33:55was true
33:58were there ever times where Chandler
34:00would go to that job as far as you knew
34:03or need to schedule time to be there yes
34:06um how would that come up he would just
34:08tell me he had to be on call days and we
34:12couldn't hang out those days or he would
34:15only have select time to hang out or
34:18else he'd be on
34:20call so there' be times you couldn't
34:22hang out because he would say he was on
34:24call mhm how often would that come up in
34:27your relationship
34:50show I don't remember okay but it came
34:54up it did okay did you ever see Chandler
34:57with any sort of scuba diving equipment
34:59oxygen tanks those flippers that people
35:02put on anything like
35:05that
35:09no did you believe he worked at a this
35:12dive team job back at that time
35:17yes um at some points in the past year
35:21and a half or so did Chandler get a job
35:24uh with American Family Insurance yes
35:27and
35:28um what did Chandler tell you about that
35:30or what did you know about what he was
35:33doing um that it was an internship to
35:37help graduate through school
35:41and he'd be doing um stuff with solar
35:45panels and laying up plans for companies
35:48going through American family and such
35:52okay so was an internship was it
35:54eventually a job or something else like
35:56where you got paid a paid internship I
35:59believe
36:00okay did he ever show you any of his
36:02work that he was working
36:04on he showed me a plan on a whiteboard
36:08that he was drawing up when you say a
36:10whiteboard what do you mean by
36:12that like a whiteboard that you hang up
36:15in your home or see in school
36:18okay and what was on that whiteboard
36:20that he was showing you if you remember
36:23um a building and where they wanted to
36:27repl the solar panels and house
36:30by highway so it would be a safety
36:33hazard for the direction they want to
36:35point it in because of the angle the sun
36:37could be blinding the
36:40drivers okay put yourself in cat's shoes
36:44imagine your boyfriend or girlfriend
36:46comes home from work and you ask them
36:48about their day they show you something
36:49they were working on and talk at length
36:51about how they are particularly stressed
36:53about this particular project they go
36:55over specific details show you their PR
36:57previous plans and explain the issue to
36:59such a degree that you can tell it's
37:01been weighing heavily on them why would
37:03you assume that they are lying that
37:04everything they said was an elaborate
37:06act in order to get away with not having
37:08a job or going to school probably not
37:10because that would seem insane the level
37:12of detail that Chandler put into his
37:14lies is nothing short of impressive he
37:16made up an entire ass internship that
37:18went along with his schoolwork stated he
37:20was working directly with a company
37:21researched that company and what they
37:23did and what they would hire interns for
37:25then went out of his way to make fake
37:27Pres presentations for a fictional
37:29company and made fake problems that only
37:31he could solve and when he relayed this
37:33to his girlfriend she was able to
37:35remember specific details of this
37:37presentation years later during a trial
37:39again when the average person hears
37:41about this case they are often confused
37:43as to how anyone could believe Chandler
37:45they see his press interview or his
37:46police interrogation and determine that
37:49he's a horrible liar but that is far
37:51from the case he was willing to put so
37:52much time and effort into his lies that
37:54if anyone in cat's life were to call it
37:56out or eveny that he was lying they
37:58would look like The Crazy Ones do you
38:00seem excited about this project when he
38:02was talking to you about it yes
38:05okay um did Chandler have any issues
38:09with pay at American Family Insurance
38:10and getting his paychecks yes tell me
38:13what you know about that from
38:14Chandler
38:17um
38:19that uh there was something going on
38:21with who American family would go
38:24through for payment that it just
38:28the check went to the wrong address and
38:31then it had to be cancelled and then he
38:34tried setting up for direct deposit and
38:36something happened with that and then
38:38the amount that they had to pay him was
38:41too much so they didn't believe they
38:42owed someone that amount of money and
38:45then just wasn't getting to him um
38:50because of this issue or maybe others
38:51were there times in your relationship
38:53where it didn't seem like Chandler had a
38:54lot of
38:55money yes um
38:58um when you all went out to get food or
39:01something along those lines would it be
39:03more common for you to pay or for him to
39:05pay or or how would that work for me to
39:07pay okay
39:10um use now
39:13yeah sure one second I'll tell you
39:16before yeah okay
39:20um you might not have some specific
39:22dates and that's totally okay but do you
39:23know approximately kind of the time
39:26period Channel was working at American
39:28Family
39:32Insurance
39:35believe January
39:37[Music]
39:39until spring
39:42okay um kind of the same question as
39:45before with MATC when I ask you about
39:47transcripts regarding American Family
39:49Insurance did you ever see any um
39:51documents pay stubs uh contracts HR
39:55stuff anything with like the logo of
39:56American family kind of around Chandler
39:58or in his bedroom or anything like that
40:00I did not okay and in that time period
40:04you were dating um 2020 and
40:072021 while he said he had the Stu did
40:09you believe he was working at American
40:10Family Insurance yes I did okay at some
40:15point going into 2021 so just last year
40:18before the summer did it appear that
40:19Chandler had gotten a new job or was in
40:21the process of getting a new job yes and
40:24um where was that job at
40:28the company or the loc what was the
40:31company SpaceX okay um so what's going
40:34to happen now is the attorneys and I are
40:36going to talk to the judge for one
40:37second so some weird white noise is
40:38going to come on be a good second to
40:40take a drink of water if you want but
40:41it's going to be about one minute
40:44okay how did you first learn that
40:46Chandler was going to work at
40:48[Music]
40:50SpaceX he mentioned it while we
40:55were on a call
40:58um did you have an
41:00interview yes okay I want to show you
41:02what's been marked as this case in this
41:04case as
41:05exhibits
41:07506 um but I want you to look at that
41:10for a second and um just quickly you'll
41:13notice we've redacted some things we'
41:14redacted you've seen this type of
41:16exhibit before correct correct and we've
41:18redacted your phone number out of this
41:19have we not yes okay um Chandler saved
41:23in your phone as as kind of a name what
41:25is that name hubby and that's just
41:28something you would call them yes okay
41:30um but are these messages with Chandler
41:32and you looks like back in May of this
41:34year yes okay and uh what is the first
41:38one that Chandler says I have a good
41:40feeling about space X okay I'll move 56
41:43in evidence any objection subject to
41:46what was said on the record it is
41:48received come on that screen okay so
41:49we're going to talk about some of them
41:51um just real quick because it's the
41:53first one that we're going to do that
41:54looks like this
41:56um your phone was was taken by the
41:59police and downloaded in the course of
42:00this investigation correct correct
42:07[Music]
42:11okay so we're going to try to get the
42:12lighting just right and that might be
42:14the trick right there um so in the blue
42:16here that's Chandler correct correct I
42:19have a good feeling about SpaceX and if
42:21we're looking at it the date on these
42:24messages uh is down there it's also so
42:27right there but this one I'll read out
42:29loud just cuz it's uh bit hard to see
42:32we're at the 23rd of May of
42:392020 you say I'm proud of
42:48you what does Chandler say there thanks
42:52I hope I get a
42:53job you say um me too um
42:57in general were you hoping Chandler got
43:00this job yes why he seemed excited about
43:05it a lot of pay a lot of pay did
43:09Chandler ever tell you how much money
43:10he'd be making at
43:13SpaceX around 800,000 800,000 sorry I
43:17apologize 880,000 880,000
43:19okay so after you say me too we're still
43:23in the 23rd he says I'll be happy
43:33and you respond I'll be very happy for
43:35you
43:37too you'll get the money you want the
43:39job you want right you were happy for
43:42them
43:44[Music]
43:48correct you talked a little bit and
43:50we're going to flip through some of
43:51these that that maybe aren't super
43:53relevant as we talked about you texted a
43:54lot um but your talking about the
43:57location and the money and and Chandler
43:59says can you read that one for
44:01us but I'll be happy with
44:04money and you say maybe they'll transfer
44:06you in a couple years was there any
44:08discussion about that around that
44:11time yes um and what was that discussion
44:13about maybe transferring or where this
44:15job
44:16was the job was in Florida okay and that
44:21would take you to Florida as well
44:23correct okay was it your intention to
44:25move uh with
44:27Chandler
44:29yes and on May 24th he sent you this
44:34message what does it
44:35say I have a follow-up interview for
44:37Florida tomorrow pausing for a brief
44:40moment let's discuss why chainer came up
44:42with the Florida SpaceX lie after a few
44:44short months of pretending to work at
44:46American Family he knew that the LIE had
44:48run its course if he had genuinely been
44:50working at the insurance agency and not
44:52getting paid any person would have been
44:54deeply dissatisfied with their
44:55employment and sought other opport
44:57opportunities so he began to devise an
44:59out and that was SpaceX working for the
45:01famous company would mean moving out of
45:03his family's home creating a more stable
45:05future for himself and would make him
45:07appear incredibly successful which is
45:09all he really wanted the vast majority
45:11of Chandler's lies seem to stem from his
45:13own insecurity about his position in the
45:15world all he was motivated to do was sit
45:17at home and play video games he only
45:19wanted to see and interact with people
45:21on his own terms so getting a job going
45:23to school and even hanging out with his
45:25girlfriend wasn't altogether appealing
45:27to him but he knew that living a
45:28reclusive almost hermit-like existence
45:30in his parents' home was somewhat
45:32shameful so the majority of his lies
45:34were to counteract that sure he lived at
45:36home but he went to school had a
45:38high-paying salaried position and
45:40volunteered with the police department
45:42he was well-liked in his community with
45:44all his bosses all commending him on
45:46being able to problem solve in ways they
45:48hadn't been able to and More in his
45:50warped version of reality he was living
45:52an incredibly successful and interesting
45:54life however he didn't have that job he
45:57never volunteered with the police
45:58department he had no money to his name
46:00to facilitate the move he also couldn't
46:03feasibly pay rent for an apartment
46:04anywhere much less Florida and if he did
46:07move his long-term loving girlfriend
46:09would obviously want to come with him so
46:11this lie would have never worked and he
46:13knew that but creating a more believable
46:15lie or even telling the truth was less
46:17important than his friends and family
46:18believing he was smart enough to be
46:20hired at SpaceX how other people viewed
46:22him was more important than anything and
46:24he was willing to kill to make sure that
46:26he stayed in the their good
46:28[Music]
46:34graces and as that kind of approached um
46:38on the 25th now of May you're saying
46:41tell me kind of in an exaggerated
46:43fashion but just tell me what's going on
46:46yes and what does Chandler say shoot
46:49sorry I got the
46:52job and you say congratulations
47:06you have a discussion about the job in
47:09general and eventually
47:11Chandler the same day the 25th what does
47:14he say to you I have training next week
47:17over the computer and I leave June 11th
47:19and start on June 14th okay
47:26[Music]
47:29you and Chandler discuss perhaps I think
47:31you said that you were going to move
47:32with them eventually right correct was
47:35it going to be right away or were you
47:36going to wait a couple weeks wait a
47:37couple weeks
47:40okay and what does Chandler text you on
47:43the
47:4425th I'll come back every other weekend
47:46hun and what else and I can send you
47:49money till your lease is up and you move
47:51in with me okay
48:00the text messages that day um end with
48:03Chandler sending you a couple messages
48:05can you read the first one if you're
48:07positive you want to be with me for the
48:08long run was that in relation to you
48:10moving with him yes and he says what
48:15last cuz if you're not then I don't
48:17think you should okay so there are a
48:21couple different ways we can interpret
48:22this message one giving him the benefit
48:25of the doubt which he in no way deserves
48:26NES and the other were he once again
48:28emotionally is manipulating cat we will
48:30discuss both the first way this message
48:33could potentially be interpreted is that
48:34he was trying to give Catherine the
48:36chance to break up with him and hoping
48:37that she would he knew his lies would
48:39eventually be found out here he had
48:41given himself a finite date to move by
48:43when he would supposedly start his job
48:45at SpaceX which he knew would never come
48:47to pass and like a coward he was hoping
48:50she would simply break up with them he
48:51didn't want to break up but he hoped she
48:53would have doubts about the relationship
48:55so he would be forced to make make up
48:57even more lies about why the job fell
48:58through that is the Kinder
49:00interpretation of this message the other
49:02interpretation is that like when he
49:04would go on to fake his traumatic brain
49:05injury he was trying to get her to
49:07massage his ego he knew she was serious
49:09about him she routinely called him her
49:11husband and talked about marriage and he
49:13was just testing her sure he had no
49:16plans on moving to Florida or taking
49:17care of her and sending her money but he
49:19wanted to dangle the carrot in front of
49:21her face because he wanted to make sure
49:23she was still loyal to him you can
49:25decide which one of these inter
49:26interpretations is more likely in the
49:28comments down below I would genuinely be
49:30interested in seeing which the majority
49:32of you believe is more
49:36[Music]
49:46likely did the topic of you and Chandler
49:49moving to Florida
49:52um is that like something you talked
49:54about a lot yes
49:57um were you excited about that yes did
50:00you tell your family yes did you tell
50:03your friends
50:07yes let show you what's been marked in
50:09this
50:10case this ex number
50:1257 can you tell me what that
50:15is a screenshot of the SpaceX location
50:19in Florida and was this taken off your
50:20phone yes why'd you take that
50:24screenshot I was curious about the
50:26location the company okay what's exhibit
50:29number
50:32508 a screenshot from Zillow of homes in
50:36Titusville Florida okay and it's a
50:39screenshot but there's something else in
50:40that screenshot in the top right corner
50:42what is that Chandler um how does this
50:44happen this is on your phone you're
50:46taking a screenshot yes are you
50:47FaceTiming at this time yes and are you
50:50looking up what are you looking up there
50:52homes for sale in Titusville Florida yes
50:56I'm show you it's been marked as exhibit
50:5759 what's
50:59that a pool and was this another one of
51:02the homes you were looking up yes when
51:05you took these screenshots when you were
51:07FaceTiming with your boyfriend at the
51:08time did you believe that you were
51:12possibly going to be moving to Florida
51:13and buying maybe buying a home or
51:15renting an apartment things of that sort
51:17yes fair to say these homes you were
51:18looking up weren't cheap either no did
51:21you think you'd be having some money
51:22available to you yes all right I'll move
51:24507 508 509 evidence any objection no
51:28they are received they may be published
51:31just briefly this is exhibit number 507
51:34I just showed you this is what we were
51:35talking about we said that you you took
51:37a screenshot of just where SpaceX was
51:40yes okay did you know prior to chanler
51:42talking about it that they had a
51:43location in Florida no
51:48okay exhibit
51:50number
51:528 we're looking at a
51:55$699,000 home in Florida and you're kind
51:58of on the phone with Chandler and is
52:00this what a FaceTime looks like when
52:01you're kind of browsing other apps while
52:03you're on FaceTime yes and so that is
52:05that Chandler on the top right yes you
52:08were were you talking to him about this
52:10at the time yes okay I'm showing you
52:14exhibit 509 here we're looking at a pool
52:17of another home is that Chandler in the
52:20top right yes and same thing you were
52:22talking to him about moving to Florida
52:25yes
52:26[Music]
52:34what kind of conversations did you
52:35personally have not what other people
52:37said but what did what were you telling
52:38your family your mom your brother about
52:41the
52:45plan Chandler would move down to Florida
52:47and start
52:48working I would go um at the end of
52:52August after my lease
52:54ended and I celebrated my birthday in
52:58Madison and Titusville isn't too far
53:04from um where Disneyland is
53:08and I was looking at Pharmacy schools in
53:11Florida as
53:13well did you talk to your friends about
53:15this plan yes
53:18um is there any discussion of
53:20Transportation or cars or things like
53:22that once you got down to Florida yes
53:24tell me about that
53:26Chandler um had a car lined up for when
53:29he got down there already and I was
53:31going to drive my car down
53:34okay
53:37um do you ever invite your friends um
53:40that were close to you and say like hey
53:41you can come down and visit when we're
53:43down there yes um what kind of things
53:46did you talk to him about
53:48doing going to Disneyland um Universal
53:53Studios going fishing
53:58as with his earlier lies about his mom
54:00not liking her this is another example
54:02of how willing Chandler was to hurt cat
54:04for seemingly no reason he knew that
54:06they weren't going to move to Florida he
54:07knew there was always going to be a
54:09reason why the job fell through or why
54:11they couldn't buy a home and so on and
54:13yet he encouraged her to look at
54:14expensive new homes and plan for a life
54:17they would never have this wasn't
54:18wishful thinking on her part he gave her
54:20every reason to believe that within the
54:22next few years they would be happily
54:24married living in Florida next to Disney
54:26World and that they were moving into the
54:27next stage of their relationship and the
54:29whole time he did that he knew that he
54:31planned to rip all of that away from her
54:33because it was never real I think we saw
54:35in one of those prior texts that the
54:37SpaceX job was supposed to begin mid
54:39June um was that your understanding of
54:43the
54:43timing yes around the time it was
54:46supposed to start did something happen
54:47that caused a delay yes what
54:52happened Mitch went to the hospital
54:55Chandler brother mhm um and he he's
54:58testified and told everyone kind of
55:00about it but in general what was your
55:01understanding of what was going on
55:04um his sugar levels were very high and
55:08he had to be there for a couple days
55:11okay what did Chandler if did he tell
55:13you anything about why that whether that
55:15was going to delay SpaceX or what what
55:17the relationship between those two
55:19things are Mitchell's illness and
55:22SpaceX he didn't want to leave while
55:24Mitch was ill
55:27okay um Mitch was in the hospital for a
55:30couple days yes
55:32okay um at that point did Chandler tell
55:36you or did you know of any time he was
55:38supposed to now start
55:45SpaceX I don't remember okay was it
55:48delayed yes um
55:51after Mitchell's hospitalization did
55:54anything else happen that caused a delay
55:55in space
55:57sex I ended up going
56:00to the um urgent care as well and then
56:05Chandler fell okay Chandler was in the
56:08hospital yes okay um what did you know
56:11about Chandler
56:14falling he um was running and slipped uh
56:19down the
56:20stairs and then fell pretty hard and hit
56:23his head
56:25[Music]
56:27um did Chandler talk to you about his
56:29injury yes um what kind of symptoms was
56:33he reporting that he was failing after
56:34that
56:36fall
56:38um tingles in his legs
56:42um sensitivity to
56:45light uh severe
56:49headaches
56:53weakness um was Chandler able to
56:57physically do normal things around that
57:00time no what do you mean by that he had
57:04a hard time lifting things and quite
57:07often would get
57:09lightheaded we've already established
57:11that this head injury was fake even when
57:13Chandler put on his best performance in
57:15the emergency room the doctors examining
57:17him determined that he was mostly
57:19unharmed and that he hadn't Fallen hard
57:20enough to have a concussion it was only
57:22after he insisted that he was given a
57:24neck brace even though the doctor was
57:26advised he didn't need it he then
57:28proceeded to tell everyone in his life
57:29that he needed a neck brace and refused
57:31to take it off but think about all the
57:33things she just listed that he couldn't
57:35do he was already unemployed not going
57:37to school and spending the majority of
57:39his time online gaming with friends but
57:41now he claims that even small amounts of
57:44light hurt him that he cannot lift
57:45anything without getting lightheaded and
57:47that even standing leaves his legs
57:49feeling tingly and numb he made it so it
57:51seemed that any amount of effort
57:52strained him like even asking him to get
57:54out of bed and turn on the light would
57:56be a huge undertaking he wasn't looking
57:58to improve his circumstances to try and
58:00make a name for himself and eventually
58:02achieve everything he had set out to do
58:04he didn't want to build a life with cat
58:06based on Mutual effort and achievement
58:08he wanted to be taken care of he wanted
58:10his parents to pay for all of his life
58:11expenses and when they eventually
58:13stopped doing that he wanted his
58:14girlfriend to take their place he had
58:16spent the entire relationship lying to
58:18cat about who he was what he wanted from
58:21life and his plans for the future he
58:23made himself seem like the ideal partner
58:24to her someone who would match her
58:26enthusiasm and life goals and would work
58:28alongside her to buy a home and support
58:30their future family but that was never
58:32the case he never attempted to get even
58:34an entry-level position or live up to
58:36the standards that cat held because he
58:38never cared about that all he wanted was
58:40to be taken care
58:41of could he carry heavy things from what
58:44you observed or
58:45knew no um could he drive long distances
58:49things of that
58:50sort no um was he able to
58:54travel no
58:56um why do you know that or why do you
58:57say that um because of the headit jury
59:02and wearing the neck brace okay we'll
59:05show you a couple exhibits
59:08marked 511 you tell me what 5'11
59:12is Chandler in the emergency room okay
59:16and uh he's kind of got his hat over his
59:18head there yes who sent you did you see
59:20this photo eventually yes how'd you get
59:22that photo um
59:26it was sent to me do you know who sent
59:28it to
59:31you I believe it was Chandler or his
59:34mother okay what's
59:38512 Chandler with Mr hollers and IM
59:41Mitch during the Father's Day brunch
59:44okay and he's wearing the collar there
59:46yes 513 um another photo of Chandler in
59:49the collar yes all right move 5 11 12
59:53and 13 and evidence any objection no
59:56objection it is they are received they
59:59may be published thank you judge just so
1:00:01we're all looking at the same thing you
1:00:02said this is a photograph that was uh
1:00:05sent to you Chandler in the hospital
1:00:07[Music]
1:00:09511 correct correct sorry we got to do
1:00:11it twice kind of that's how it works 512
1:00:14um photograph of that's Chandler on the
1:00:18left side correct correct and then the
1:00:20middle is that Mr halderson correct and
1:00:23on the right is that Mitchell correct
1:00:26and that's where is that photo taken do
1:00:27you know in the living room by by the
1:00:30kitchen
1:00:32okay and 513 another photograph of
1:00:35Chandler wearing that neck brace correct
1:00:43okay what were you aware of in terms of
1:00:45like what the prognosis was for his
1:00:47injuries like what was going to happen
1:00:49to him or what was going
1:00:51on he had a
1:00:53concussion um lights of light
1:00:56sensitivity
1:00:57and um tingling in his
1:01:03legs um was it going to get
1:01:13better I guess at this point I'm going
1:01:15to object I need you to use the mic I
1:01:18withdraw the question the defense object
1:01:21did Chandler tell you if he was going to
1:01:22get better or the symptoms were
1:01:23improving around that time no no okay
1:01:28was there any discussion about how the
1:01:29concussion and the injury was going to
1:01:31affect
1:01:34SpaceX he wouldn't be able to travel
1:01:36down there tell me about anything you
1:01:38remember about that type of
1:01:40[Music]
1:01:46discussion can you be more specific
1:01:48please yeah what did Chandler
1:01:49specifically tell you about why he
1:01:51couldn't
1:01:52travel um because he was
1:01:56um wearing the neck brace and he had a
1:01:58concussion so he shouldn't be
1:02:02flying um same question as before about
1:02:06American family in MATC did you ever see
1:02:08anything around Chandler's room on his
1:02:10phone any documents records with the
1:02:14SpaceX or Tesla logo or anything like
1:02:16that no um talked a little bit about
1:02:20houses and things of that sort were you
1:02:23aware at any point if Chandler had
1:02:24rented an apartment
1:02:26yes and tell me about
1:02:29that um it was a two bedroom
1:02:34apartment and he put a down payment for
1:02:37it
1:02:39uh and there was a little dog park so I
1:02:42could bring my dog Chewbacca down
1:02:45okay how did you know about this
1:02:48apartment uh Chandler sent me a link
1:02:51okay um did he tell you whether he was
1:02:53just looking at it or if he had actually
1:02:55rented it
1:02:56that he rented it okay did you yourself
1:02:59see a lease of any sort no did you ever
1:03:02sign a lease
1:03:06no is your only connection with this
1:03:09apartment is looking at the listing that
1:03:11was sent to you
1:03:21correct we're going to start talking
1:03:23about events starting on June 30th and
1:03:26kind of all the way through July 8th at
1:03:28this point um and I think I'm going to
1:03:30let some of your messages guide our our
1:03:31conversation so I'm going to be walking
1:03:33back and forth quite a bit um but to
1:03:36show you what's been marked in this case
1:03:38is exhibit number
1:03:42514 just briefly could you just page
1:03:44through that and tell us kind of what
1:03:46dates these text messages are from
1:03:54[Music]
1:04:02they're all on June 30th June 30th of
1:04:052021 right correct all right and these
1:04:08are the messages between you and
1:04:09Chandler correct I'll move 514 in
1:04:12evidence any
1:04:14objection I'll bring up the same
1:04:16objection from the sidebar but otherwise
1:04:18no all right and based upon the same
1:04:20ruling they are received and they may be
1:04:22shown I'm going to start showing them
1:04:23and I'm going to ask for some context
1:04:25cuz we're picking up up obviously in the
1:04:26middle of of thousands of pages of of
1:04:28messages maybe but the first message is
1:04:31um a message from you um to be honest
1:04:34it's getting to the point where I want
1:04:35to text your mom directly what was this
1:04:37about on June 30th 3:18 in the
1:04:41afternoon about him uh being grounded
1:04:44and not being able to see me or hang
1:04:47out what was your understanding at that
1:04:49time of what was going on from Chandler
1:04:50what did he tell you he was he was
1:04:53grounded yes okay
1:04:56um were you wanting to see him yes and
1:05:00what did he tell you about whether he
1:05:01could see you or
1:05:04not he
1:05:07couldn't because of
1:05:09what because I wasn't allowed over okay
1:05:13uh you communicated with Christa a lot
1:05:15right yes um when you say that was
1:05:18Chandler telling you that or did you
1:05:20actually hear that from Christa or Bart
1:05:22from Chandler okay
1:05:25and you say it's getting to the point
1:05:27where I want to text your mom directly
1:05:29and Chandler says can you read that for
1:05:31me it's fine B that'll only piss them
1:05:34off
1:05:35more and what does he say this weekend
1:05:38will be as established it was important
1:05:40for Chandler the cat didn't talk to his
1:05:42parents he didn't want them getting
1:05:44along because that would mean that they
1:05:46could talk about his life and what he
1:05:47was doing and potentially realize that
1:05:50he'd been lying to all of them mind you
1:05:51he wasn't grounded he just didn't want
1:05:53to see cat for whatever reason but but
1:05:55he was never willing to Simply say that
1:05:57there was always something getting in
1:05:58the way of them spending time together
1:06:00something that he would present as being
1:06:02endlessly frustrating to him his parents
1:06:04his work his job School his volunteer
1:06:07work what have you he was never willing
1:06:09to communicate that he wanted time alone
1:06:10from her because then he might not seem
1:06:12like a good
1:06:13boyfriend that weekend was the Fourth of
1:06:15July weekend coming up right
1:06:23correct you say now we're still jewi
1:06:2530th we're about 3:19 in the afternoon
1:06:27you say
1:06:28okay and he says what thanks
1:06:32though and then on June
1:06:3530th you send this message
1:06:38next what does that say we're not going
1:06:41to the cabin right um so in the realm of
1:06:45messages where the cabin the first time
1:06:47the jury's seen that how did this come
1:06:49up or what was going on where you sent
1:06:51this
1:06:54message I was on the impression that Mr
1:06:56and Mrs holders were going up to the
1:06:58cabin for the 4th of July
1:07:01weekend um was that conversations or
1:07:04like over the phone or in person you'd
1:07:06had with Chandler or was that over the
1:07:08phone
1:07:10[Music]
1:07:12okay and you ask we're not going to the
1:07:14cabin are
1:07:15we what does Chandler say
1:07:19no you say I can ask if we can go to the
1:07:22farm right correct and that ended up
1:07:25coming to fruition you did that yes
1:07:30okay can you read that last message you
1:07:33sent that way we can say my mom can care
1:07:36for you since they have a lot of stuff
1:07:38here that they use for Mike and papa
1:07:42um your mom and Chris testified um who
1:07:46are Mike and papa in general and what
1:07:47did that mean that there was stuff there
1:07:48for them Mike is uh cr's brother and
1:07:53papa is her father uh papa is elderly he
1:07:57is over 90 years of age and um Mike is
1:08:03wheelchair
1:08:04bound and needs help going to the
1:08:06restroom and overall my mom helps take
1:08:09care of
1:08:10them okay what kind of stuff were you
1:08:13talking about that there was stuff
1:08:16there
1:08:18Walkers
1:08:21um if he
1:08:23needed um one
1:08:26those stools that you put over the
1:08:29toilet so an elderly person can sit down
1:08:32or they don't have to squat so low since
1:08:33it's hard for their
1:08:35knees
1:08:40um okay was it your impression that
1:08:43Chandler would be assisted by some of
1:08:45those things
1:09:01[Applause]
1:09:07no why did you say that there was stuff
1:09:09there for
1:09:11them so we'd be able to hang out since
1:09:14his mom's was very concerned about um
1:09:16his injury
1:09:19[Music]
1:09:22okay the next day Thursday July 1st
1:09:28um you work that
1:09:32day can you repeat the date sure
1:09:35Thursday July 1st so before the 4th of
1:09:37July weekend correct you have a a normal
1:09:40job normal type of hours right correct
1:09:42okay weekday correct okay hopefully just
1:09:46weekdays right showing you what's been
1:09:48marked is exhibit number um 516 and I
1:09:52know it might be in a different form
1:09:53than usual but in general do you have
1:09:55idea of what that
1:09:57is yes what is that Snapchat messages
1:10:02and who are they
1:10:04with Chandler and Chandler's um to the
1:10:08best you can I know these are people
1:10:09makeup names but what was Chandler's
1:10:11Snapchat name chazel dazzle chazel
1:10:13dazzle and significant parts of this are
1:10:17redacted out um in the course of sending
1:10:19Snapchat sometimes you send just in
1:10:22general people are sending pictures back
1:10:23and forth and part of what we done in
1:10:24this we we've done in this case is just
1:10:26redact any photographs that we really
1:10:27thought we could right correct okay kept
1:10:30one on though just to prove that's you
1:10:32right yes okay um it's
1:10:355:16 um Snapchat messages between July
1:10:391st and July 7th between you and
1:10:42Chandler correct all right I'll move 516
1:10:45into evidence any objection same
1:10:47objection as the text messages same
1:10:49ruling that it is received may be
1:10:52published okay I need you to tell us
1:10:54about Snapchat I don't know what
1:10:55everyone's understanding is uh
1:10:57everyone's of different ages some people
1:10:58have a Snapchat some people don't um
1:11:01just in general what is Snapchat
1:11:03Snapchat is a social media app where you
1:11:06can send photos with titles or um you
1:11:10can send messages through the chat part
1:11:12of the app and what is one of the
1:11:15features of Snapchat that it's primarily
1:11:17known for that text messages maybe
1:11:22aren't they aren't generally saved they
1:11:24delete right correct okay um is there a
1:11:28way to manually save messages or photos
1:11:31on Snapchat yes and is it easy or is it
1:11:36hard I find it easy what do you
1:11:39do you hold down the text and you select
1:11:42save and if you save the message uh if
1:11:46you're communicating right now with
1:11:48Snapchat with one of your friends and
1:11:50they send you a snap if you click on it
1:11:52and look and do nothing that message
1:11:54will delete right
1:11:57sometimes okay but if you you could
1:12:00manually save it right by putting your
1:12:01finger down and saving it correct or if
1:12:04you changed the settings to delete
1:12:05within 24 hours
1:12:08right sometimes when you snapped with
1:12:10Chandler one or both of you uh would
1:12:13save the messages correct and those
1:12:16messages are what we're looking at here
1:12:18right correct okay
1:12:21[Music]
1:12:26would you say Snapchat is your primary
1:12:28form of communication with
1:12:30Chandler one of them okay
1:12:35so I'm going to display 516 and we'll
1:12:38start going through some things here in
1:12:40a second but we talked about we left one
1:12:42photograph on just to prove uh that's
1:12:44you right correct okay and we'll redact
1:12:47the rest and when um for obvious reasons
1:12:50we don't want everything coming out but
1:12:55on July
1:13:001st of 2021 at
1:13:05711 um you get a message right from
1:13:09Chandler correct what does it say how do
1:13:12you sleep and you say I slept good how
1:13:15did you sleep and how does he respond I
1:13:18hardly slept
1:13:23okay he gives you kind of a emoji face
1:13:26you say I'm sorry be why can you read
1:13:30Chandler's message back to
1:13:32you after you say
1:13:34why I don't know stuff hasn't really
1:13:37been going well for me lately so I'm
1:13:39trying to plan for the next thing to
1:13:40[ __ ] me over so the first message cat
1:13:43gets from Chandler when she wakes up is
1:13:44another instance of emotional
1:13:46manipulation from him the very first
1:13:48thing he thought to do when she told him
1:13:49that she was awake is to remind her how
1:13:52his life is horrible how everything is
1:13:53going so poorly and put her in the
1:13:55position to try and comfort him
1:13:57meanwhile his life was fine he hadn't
1:13:59gone to school or work in months his
1:14:01parents spent the majority of their free
1:14:03time taking care of him and they haven't
1:14:05enforced their one rule about him having
1:14:07to pay rent since he moved back home and
1:14:09his girlfriend was more than willing to
1:14:11do whatever it was he asked her to do he
1:14:13spent his days online playing video
1:14:15games freeloading off of all of his
1:14:17friends and family members and
1:14:18pretending to be injured and other than
1:14:20his dad's annoyance over his transcripts
1:14:22not being provided everything was going
1:14:24amazing for Chan he was living his dream
1:14:26but he needed more he needed everyone
1:14:28around him to pity him to tell him what
1:14:31a great guy he was how they would love
1:14:33him even if he never did anything to
1:14:34improve himself or to support them he
1:14:36wasn't interested in uplifting or
1:14:38supporting the people around him even
1:14:40emotionally he just wanted their support
1:14:42and was willing to hurt them to get it
1:14:44we have little commentary for the next
1:14:46portion of the video so we're going to
1:14:48skip past it a link will be left down
1:14:49below to the original uploads that way
1:14:51you could watch the testimony in its
1:14:53entirety from this point on we will be
1:14:55cutting out portions of the testimony
1:14:57where we have nothing to add and what
1:14:59were you and Chandler going to do um
1:15:02hang out okay have a
1:15:05sleepover um were you excited about this
1:15:08yes how long it had been at that time
1:15:10that Chandler had been in this being
1:15:12kind of grounded state where you hadn't
1:15:13seen him a
1:15:16lot about two weeks
1:15:20[Music]
1:15:21okay as you left work that day um
1:15:25did you have to go to Target to pick
1:15:27some stuff up yes um what were you
1:15:30picking up in
1:15:33[Music]
1:15:39general maybe I'll ask a better question
1:15:42is it groceries yes okay sure it's been
1:15:44marked as exhibit 525 what is
1:15:47that pork chops oat milk cheese sure is
1:15:52this from uh the hildale target yes um
1:15:55do you do the pickups at Target or do
1:15:57you go in and and Shop I do the pickups
1:16:01okay so like a lot of people during Co
1:16:03you've done the the pickup thing where
1:16:04you order ahead correct okay I'll move
1:16:07525 in evidence any objection no
1:16:10objection it is received it may be
1:16:12published not crazy exciting for
1:16:14everyone but there it's the hildale
1:16:16targets picked up at
1:16:17529 um hildale here in Madison kind of
1:16:20down University Avenue right correct all
1:16:22right got a couple things some pork
1:16:25chops some oat milk some cheese normal
1:16:29stuff right correct but but you didn't
1:16:31stop there you went to another Target
1:16:33didn't you yes uh how does that work
1:16:35that you end up at two Targets in the
1:16:36same
1:16:37day if something isn't available at one
1:16:39target I will order it at another and
1:16:41then go pick it up from there okay so
1:16:43you went to multiple targets correct and
1:16:46so there we see Madison East Target at
1:16:48637 right correct you got a watermelon
1:16:52yep awesome
1:16:55were you taking these things over to the
1:16:57halderson
1:16:59house some of them yes okay and when you
1:17:02pick things up at Target um you've done
1:17:04this a lot I would imagine very often um
1:17:08do they put any sort of stickers or
1:17:09markings on the bag to indicate this is
1:17:11for you yes um in general just describe
1:17:15what goes on those bags it is a barcode
1:17:17for them to scan after they received my
1:17:19order and it has my first initial and
1:17:22last name okay I'm going to show you
1:17:25what's been marked in this case is
1:17:26exhibit number
1:17:28526 maybe some more messages um but take
1:17:31a look at that do that appear to be text
1:17:33messages between you and Chandler there
1:17:35that day on the 2nd uh July 2nd correct
1:17:38starting in the
1:17:40morning yes okay I'll move 526 in
1:17:43evidence subject to the standing
1:17:45objection it is
1:17:48received and so in fact kind of first
1:17:51thing maybe you say him that day is you
1:17:52got to go to both targets for your
1:17:54groceries
1:17:55yep that's
1:17:57923 and then you're going to take some
1:17:59of them to your mom's yes tell me just
1:18:01real quick and we're not going to talk
1:18:02about addresses but General living
1:18:04situation at the time back in July of of
1:18:07last year um did you live with your mom
1:18:11no did you have an apartment yes and
1:18:13would you sometimes stay at your
1:18:15apartment yes sometimes at your mom's
1:18:17mhm
1:18:20okay Chandler says okay at 9:23
1:18:26and then on July 2nd at 9: in the
1:18:29morning after you talk about Target can
1:18:31you read that message from Chandler to
1:18:32you don't rush I have tons of chores
1:18:35they are having me
1:18:38do you say
1:18:41okay and then you talk about what you're
1:18:43having for dinner maybe Burgers maybe
1:18:45chili yes okay
1:18:56[Music]
1:18:58talk more about what you're going to
1:18:59have for dinner he says I don't know
1:19:00what would you
1:19:01like
1:19:03um and you say depends on how long we
1:19:06see each other talking about in general
1:19:08what you're going to do and what you're
1:19:09going to eat you read what Chandler sent
1:19:11you on the 2nd of July at just before
1:19:1510: in the morning at
1:19:169:58 we could do dinner tonight and you
1:19:19can come over in the morning again and
1:19:20stay till Sunday night okay um did that
1:19:24message strike you as odd of coming over
1:19:27leaving and coming
1:19:31back
1:19:36yes
1:19:39why because I was already going to be
1:19:41there and I thought our plan was for the
1:19:42whole weekend okay so he
1:19:47says did you could come over for dinner
1:19:50and then the in between what's not
1:19:52written but your impression was you'd
1:19:54leave then come back the next
1:19:56day can you say that a little louder
1:19:58please sure was it your impression from
1:20:00this message that Chandler was telling
1:20:02you that you would leave that night and
1:20:04come back the next morning correct okay
1:20:07so he says
1:20:09that and then he he says like dinner
1:20:14plus the sex to you right yeah
1:20:18okay and you ask them why leave and come
1:20:22back if I'm just going to stay
1:20:28and can you read Chandler's
1:20:30response so I can get some chores
1:20:34done did you know what chores he was
1:20:37talking about at this
1:20:46time I don't recall
1:20:54[Music]
1:21:06let me show you another
1:21:09exhibit marked 527 in this case um just
1:21:15in general do those appear to be more
1:21:17text messages between the two of you on
1:21:19July
1:21:202nd yes I'll move 527 into evidence
1:21:25any objection no objection they are
1:21:28received they may be published Lots has
1:21:31been established between when we last
1:21:33left off and now with the prosecution
1:21:35laying a good amount of groundwork down
1:21:37showing that Chandler had premeditated
1:21:39his parents' death that he continued to
1:21:41lie and emotionally manipulate cat and
1:21:42more but we are pausing here to note how
1:21:45uninterested Chandler seems at this
1:21:47moment though half his face is covered
1:21:48by a mask he seemingly has no emotional
1:21:51reaction to watching the woman he
1:21:53purported to love be public L
1:21:54interrogated this way their sex life was
1:21:57just brought up something that would
1:21:58obviously upset anyone and he has no
1:22:01reaction he's not embarrassed he's not
1:22:03ashamed he just is for lack of a better
1:22:05word throughout the trial Chandler
1:22:07showed no real emotion his parents
1:22:09dismembered dead bodies were publicly
1:22:11displayed in disgust his lies were
1:22:13exposed in open court and he just sat
1:22:16there as if he was a member of the
1:22:17public watching this happened to someone
1:22:19else hearing cat's testimony listening
1:22:21to how upset embarrassed and hurt she is
1:22:23stands in start contrast to Chandler who
1:22:26cannot even pretend to care when his
1:22:28life hangs in the balance and it's this
1:22:30emotionality that likely Drew Chandler
1:22:32to cat she cared so deeply for other
1:22:34people he knew that he could probably
1:22:35bend that in his favor he knew how to
1:22:37parot this back to her how to make her
1:22:39believe that they were on the same page
1:22:41and feain that he felt the same way that
1:22:43she did once he got her to see him in
1:22:45that light he knew that no matter what
1:22:47he did or how he lied to her she would
1:22:49probably take his side and give him as
1:22:51many chances as he needed again I'm
1:22:53going to skip forward a bit as the next
1:22:55section of the testimony is the
1:22:56prosecution laying more groundwork and
1:22:58reading out text messages from Chandler
1:23:00and Cat from that weekend most of the
1:23:02messages involve them talking about the
1:23:04food they were going to make for dinner
1:23:05that night which as you can imagine is
1:23:07not the most riveting thing in the
1:23:09world when you get over
1:23:12to um Chandler's house do you take the
1:23:14bags of groceries inside or do they go
1:23:16inside at some point yes and the
1:23:19hydrogen peroxide yes and the Swiffer
1:23:22yes um when you first go in the house
1:23:25that day um did you notice anything
1:23:29off there was a smoky smell
1:23:35okay did Chandler tell you more about
1:23:37did he explain why there was a smoky
1:23:40smell because he was um playing catch
1:23:43with Rizzo in the house and the glass
1:23:46shattered in the
1:23:47fireplace and so the smell got into the
1:23:51home Rizzo is a dog right correct the
1:23:53border call
1:23:55how did Chandler say the glass broke
1:23:56with the dog he was throwing the ball in
1:23:59the house okay um did you look into that
1:24:02any further did you go over to that
1:24:03fireplace and poke
1:24:05around no was there in fact a glass
1:24:07panel broken on
1:24:08it
1:24:10yes this was one of Chandler's lies
1:24:13meant to cover up what he had done to
1:24:14his parents the night before when we
1:24:16stated that a home's fireplace could not
1:24:18destroy a human body we left out the
1:24:20reasoning the heat that would be needed
1:24:22to incinerate a human is immense far
1:24:24larger than any regulation fireplace
1:24:26could handle but Chandler didn't know
1:24:28that he thought fire equals burning and
1:24:30therefore his parents' bodies would be
1:24:32eliminated with minimal effort after
1:24:34dismembering the two people who had
1:24:35taken care of him his entire life he
1:24:37placed portions of their remains in the
1:24:39home fir Place fan the flames and
1:24:41attempted to get the fire to the point
1:24:43of incineration however he was only
1:24:45successful in causing a smallscale
1:24:47explosion in the home which broke the
1:24:49glass fire gate this caused an injury to
1:24:51his foot one of the only real injuries
1:24:53he would ever obtain and caused the home
1:24:55to fill with black smoke the smallscale
1:24:57explosion was caught on one of his
1:24:58neighbor security cameras which gave the
1:25:00police the exact time frame when this
1:25:03happened but put yourself in cat's shoes
1:25:05as far as she knows he had spent the
1:25:07entire day laboring at the behest of his
1:25:09parents they went on their regular 4th
1:25:11of July vacation and left him a list of
1:25:13chores to do despite his injury and the
1:25:15fact that he couldn't so much as sit in
1:25:17a well-lit room without getting a
1:25:18massive migraine his parents had
1:25:20practically forced him to clean the
1:25:22entire home and do hard labor then when
1:25:24when she arrives she sees that he is
1:25:26even more injured and the home is filled
1:25:27with smoke and tells her that during a
1:25:29routine game of fetch he shattered the
1:25:32firplace gate based on everything he had
1:25:34already lied about his physical
1:25:35well-being and ability to care for
1:25:37himself after the fall she would have
1:25:39immediately believed him of course he
1:25:41accidentally broke the fireplace gate he
1:25:42can barely stand up on his own without
1:25:44assistance obviously he injured himself
1:25:46on the broken glass he had overexerted
1:25:49himself doing the household chores it
1:25:51was likely shocking to her that he
1:25:53wasn't more injured
1:25:56what were your plans that day when you
1:25:57left early it was a Saturday now we're
1:25:59into July
1:26:013rd my plans for the day yeah what was
1:26:03your general General
1:26:05plans
1:26:07um go to my mom's hang out with the dogs
1:26:11uh Chewbacca and
1:26:12muffin um see my brother and have
1:26:16Chandler come over
1:26:18later and that night what were you going
1:26:20to
1:26:22do see the fireworks with my brother
1:26:27[Music]
1:26:31okay that day when you left were you
1:26:33aware of what Chandler's plans were to
1:26:36do chores um he had mentioned chores a
1:26:39couple times what what was your
1:26:41understanding of chores did he tell
1:26:43you I don't
1:26:47remember I'm going to show
1:26:49you actually I already did 531s received
1:26:52in evidence at this point
1:26:56yes okay you're texting Chandler in the
1:26:59morning
1:27:01um first one 7:32 you say breakfast
1:27:05burrito what was this in reference to uh
1:27:08what we were going to eat when he came
1:27:09over later okay something you we going
1:27:12to make or something like that yes
1:27:15okay can you read his message for
1:27:18us sounds good I'm doing [ __ ] kind of
1:27:21slowly to be honest I'm kind of sore
1:27:24okay it's at
1:27:307:46 you say I could have helped you
1:27:33this morning yes what was that in
1:27:35reference to doing his chores okay did
1:27:39he ask you to help him no okay and um
1:27:43why did you send that message that you
1:27:45would have helped
1:27:48him since I thought um he was having a
1:27:51hard time with his legs and the injury I
1:27:56could have helped him get it done easier
1:27:57and it would have been as hard for him
1:28:01he responds uh 7:47 can you read his
1:28:05response yeah I know I'll be right back
1:28:07going to the
1:28:10dump you read your response to that at
1:28:157:48 B did you load the card by yourself
1:28:18you can barely walk I should have at
1:28:19least helped you with
1:28:21that Chandler tell you what he was
1:28:23taking to the
1:28:28dump I don't remember okay pausing for
1:28:31just a moment it's important that you
1:28:33remember that despite these messages and
1:28:35Chandler's insistence he was completely
1:28:37able-bodied even if his parents had left
1:28:39a long list of chores for him to do he
1:28:41could have easily accomplished them in a
1:28:43day or so but they hadn't cat was
1:28:44supremely concerned about his health and
1:28:46well-being Christa would even go through
1:28:48the effort of making sure every room in
1:28:50the house was dark enough for him before
1:28:51he could potentially enter them in the
1:28:53hopes that he could be able to move
1:28:55around more and interact with the rest
1:28:56of the family yet even after death
1:28:58Chandler found new ways to discourage
1:29:00and disrespect his parents Memories by
1:29:03telling cat that his parents had gone
1:29:04away for the weekend leaving him their
1:29:06recently physically disabled son alone
1:29:08in the home to do manual labor she would
1:29:11naturally have a negative view of
1:29:12Christa and Bart how could they
1:29:14realistically think that Chandler the
1:29:16boy who could barely walk and do
1:29:17anything except play video games could
1:29:19load his car full of heavy materials to
1:29:22take to the dump how could they insist
1:29:24that he make his way through the house
1:29:25cleaning every little thing when he
1:29:27couldn't be in most rooms with natural
1:29:29sunlight Chandler Amplified this
1:29:30Viewpoint by repeatedly mentioning how
1:29:32much of these chores had taken out of
1:29:34him and how he was sore after his need
1:29:36for pity is truly remarkable and the
1:29:38fact that he managed to find new ways to
1:29:40disparage his parents after dismembering
1:29:42them is
1:29:43disgusting at some point he texts you
1:29:45though at 7:49 what does he say never
1:29:50mind it's
1:29:52closed and you reference it's the
1:29:54holiday weekend
1:29:56[Music]
1:30:07[Music]
1:30:13correct at some point um there's a
1:30:17series of messages from you and and then
1:30:19this one comes at uh 8:38 what do you
1:30:22say there hey did you pass out that's a
1:30:26question mark um why would you send a
1:30:28message like that or why did you send a
1:30:30message like
1:30:31that I was worried because of the head
1:30:34in jury if he's overexerting himself he
1:30:36might push himself too hard and pass out
1:30:39okay and you had sent him a series of
1:30:42messages that he hadn't responded
1:30:46to correct correct
1:30:56[Music]
1:31:00now that
1:31:03morning when you
1:31:06left the house
1:31:08early you you you've already testified
1:31:10that he was going to do chores and then
1:31:12there was some texts about the dump um
1:31:14did Mr halderson say he was going
1:31:16anywhere else that you knew of that
1:31:22morning not at that time
1:31:24did he say anything to you uh about
1:31:27going to Fleet Farm that kind of farm
1:31:30supply store out near Windsor that
1:31:32morning not that I recall um did you
1:31:35know he was going there no
1:31:38okay I'll move to display 530 you
1:31:46may is that Chandler walking into Fleet
1:31:49Farm
1:31:51yes and if that was a screenshot of a
1:31:54video taken that morning just after you
1:31:56left um you don't know anything about
1:31:58why you'd be there right no
1:32:08[Applause]
1:32:09[Music]
1:32:19[Music]
1:32:20okay at some point that day
1:32:24after you left um did you notice that
1:32:27Chandler was in a did you look at his
1:32:29Snapchat map to look at where he
1:32:31was yes and did you become worried or
1:32:34concerned in some way yes showing it's
1:32:37been marked as exhibit number
1:32:38532 what is
1:32:41that a screenshot of Chandler by the
1:32:43Wisconsin River okay and how's he
1:32:46labeled what's his name there hubby and
1:32:48what time is
1:32:49that 8:58 okay I think previously I said
1:32:53the second I meant the the third we're
1:32:55we're now in the Saturday but was this
1:32:56taken on Saturday morning yes okay why
1:32:59did you take this screenshot of
1:33:01Chandler's
1:33:02[Music]
1:33:04location I didn't know why he was there
1:33:06and so I was curious did you know where
1:33:09this location
1:33:10was yes okay and how did you know where
1:33:14this location was I've been there before
1:33:16with
1:33:17Chandler tell us about
1:33:19it
1:33:21um it's a little spot where we can park
1:33:24our Park our car and walk down to the
1:33:27Wisconsin River for swimming okay how
1:33:30many times do you think you've been
1:33:40there two or three
1:33:45times move to publish 532 you may
1:33:50okay was it received okay is this that
1:33:54screenshot yes
1:33:58and that's the location right
1:34:06yes what did you do um when you when you
1:34:10saw
1:34:12that pardon yeah what did you do when
1:34:15you saw that location um did you you
1:34:18took a screenshot did you do anything
1:34:19else with that
1:34:21information I asked him what he was
1:34:23doing there
1:34:25okay and what did he
1:34:29respond he was going to pick up CBD and
1:34:32he was passing through
1:34:34there um he was passing
1:34:38through um did you try to call him yes
1:34:42okay did were you able to talk to
1:34:44him yes okay do you recall anything else
1:34:48from that conversation about what he
1:34:49said or why he was where he
1:34:52was um he was picking up CBD for the
1:34:55pain
1:34:57um he don't want to tell me that he was
1:35:00picking up CBD because he was scared I
1:35:02was going to be disappointed in
1:35:05him by this point you might have noticed
1:35:07a pattern with Chandler's lies whenever
1:35:09he is caught out doing something that he
1:35:11wasn't supposed to be doing like trying
1:35:13to discard portions of his family
1:35:14members bodies he will create a lie that
1:35:17makes the person being lied to feel bad
1:35:19about their actions even when they have
1:35:21done nothing wrong in this instance
1:35:23Chandler went to the river to leave
1:35:24portions of his mother and father in a
1:35:26place that he frequented he thought that
1:35:28it was Private enough that they wouldn't
1:35:29be found but was personal enough that he
1:35:31could come and visit like he had in the
1:35:33past but when cat grew concerned over
1:35:35why he was so far from home when he had
1:35:37told her repeatedly that he was
1:35:39physically unable to drive following his
1:35:41head injury he told her that he had gone
1:35:43to pick up CBD in that area and didn't
1:35:45want to disappoint her his excuse was
1:35:47that he was picking up a medical product
1:35:49for his injury and believed that she
1:35:51would think less of him for it imagine
1:35:53if a part partner or friend of yours
1:35:54said the same thing to you they had gone
1:35:56through a traumatic few months or
1:35:58injured to the point of losing their
1:35:59Mobility along with some of their
1:36:01cognitive function and are reasonably
1:36:03depressed most of your communication
1:36:05back and forth is them discussing this
1:36:07sudden shift and how upset it makes them
1:36:09and when they finally tell you of
1:36:10something that they're doing to treat
1:36:12this they add that they originally
1:36:13didn't want to inform you because they
1:36:15thought you would be disappointed in
1:36:16them they didn't want to do something
1:36:18that could inevitably help them get
1:36:19better for fear you would be upset again
1:36:22all of Chandler's lies are intended to
1:36:24make the person feel horribly about
1:36:25themselves and think the world of him
1:36:27they're all meant to make the people
1:36:29around him the ones he was adamant he
1:36:31loved look and feel horrible while
1:36:33maintaining his shiny
1:36:43veneer and around that time that you
1:36:46took that screenshot was that when all
1:36:48of these messages were being sent that
1:36:50we looked at in this exhibit where no
1:36:52one was responding to
1:36:56ending with hey did you pass
1:37:08out I was before I took the screenshot
1:37:11right same same morning though same
1:37:13morning yes were you having trouble
1:37:16communicating with Chandler that morning
1:37:18between 8: and 9 essentially yes okay
1:37:25[Music]
1:37:31prior to well I say it a different way
1:37:34when was the last time you were at that
1:37:35location that out by the Wisconsin River
1:37:37with Chandler
1:37:46approximately that summer with um his
1:37:49friend Smith is that Andrew Smith I
1:37:52don't know his first name he always just
1:37:54went by Smith okay um how did what was
1:37:57your understanding of how Chandler knew
1:37:58this Smith guy uh they were video game
1:38:04buddies um pausing for just a second I
1:38:07highly recommend watching Andrew Smith's
1:38:09testimony on this case Smith was one of
1:38:12the people Chandler played online games
1:38:14with and his time on the stand is very
1:38:15funny to watch he is a very direct
1:38:17person and it makes his back and forth
1:38:19with both of the attorneys in this case
1:38:21extremely fun which is strange to say
1:38:23today as we are talking about a horrific
1:38:25murder but it does alleviate the tension
1:38:27a little bit I'll leave a link in the
1:38:29description box down
1:38:35below Mark in this case is ex number 536
1:38:40and I'll show you
1:38:41537
1:38:43[Music]
1:38:45Tri 536 is that another set of messages
1:38:48between you and Chandler that day July
1:38:515th correct
1:38:56what is
1:38:59535 what is that oh sorry um it's a
1:39:03screenshot of uh ww Clinic okay and did
1:39:07you take that yes I did in relation to
1:39:10to what why did you take the screenshot
1:39:12uh that's where Chandler said he was
1:39:14going to have his um appointment before
1:39:17continuing we stated earlier that most
1:39:19people cannot understand how Chandler
1:39:21got away with lying to everyone in his
1:39:23life it's because when most people lie
1:39:25they don't go to the links the Chandler
1:39:27would when the majority of people try to
1:39:29sell falsehoods to others it's In the
1:39:30Heat of the Moment they say that they
1:39:32did something they obviously didn't do
1:39:34they pretend to know more about a
1:39:35subject or they make up a fanciful
1:39:37scenario that most people understand is
1:39:39not possible but Chandler's lies were
1:39:41well researched when he fell and hit his
1:39:43head he knew the symptoms he wanted to
1:39:45act out he had researched head injuries
1:39:47leading to physical disabilities and
1:39:49then began self-reporting them but that
1:39:52wasn't all he researched clinics and
1:39:54doctors in the area who would be able to
1:39:55help with head injuries like the one he
1:39:57was pretending to have as well as make
1:39:59fake appointments and talk to people in
1:40:01his life about them and of course the
1:40:03cherry on top is pretending to go to
1:40:05these appointments during these times he
1:40:07would either turn his phone off so the
1:40:09cat could not see where he was via his
1:40:11Snapchat location where he would
1:40:13actually go to these places and just
1:40:15[ __ ] stand there knowing that his
1:40:16location would verify his story he did
1:40:19the same thing with all of his lies so
1:40:20that it would seem almost stupid to
1:40:22believe that he was wasn't being genuine
1:40:24for that day okay I'll move 536 and 535
1:40:29into evidence any objection other than
1:40:31the standing objection as to the texts
1:40:33no objection they are
1:40:36received so we're still on that day July
1:40:425th but we're in the afternoon and you
1:40:44text me can you read that last
1:40:47one text me when you get to your
1:40:49appointment and we're about 1:30 aren't
1:40:51we yes
1:40:56okay Chandler says yes
1:41:00[Music]
1:41:05dear then a series of messages starting
1:41:09at 140 uh you say mhm
1:41:14essentially 140 again I love you it's
1:41:17going to be
1:41:22okay can you read what Chandler
1:41:25says either way you and me are going to
1:41:27be
1:41:29happy you say very
1:41:32true and then at 2:00 2:01 exactly uh
1:41:36Chandler says what made it a bit ago and
1:41:38checked in what was your understanding
1:41:40of where he had gone to um the location
1:41:44that I had screenshotted for his
1:41:46appointment and why again did you take
1:41:48this screenshot for Chandler's
1:41:49appointment um because I was trying to
1:41:53leave work early to be able to take him
1:41:55myself okay but you you didn't take him
1:41:57that day did you
1:41:59no so I'm showing I'll move to publish
1:42:02535 if I haven't you may
1:42:06okay you looked up W Health on Science
1:42:09Drive correct how did you get this
1:42:11location or how did you know this was
1:42:12the location you'd be going
1:42:14to Chandler told me it was on Science
1:42:17Drive
1:42:24that point after he says he made it
1:42:26checked in uh at just after two what
1:42:28does he say be right
1:42:31back you say you got
1:42:34this
1:42:38[Applause]
1:42:43yeah you ask him about what you're doing
1:42:46later 29 but then Chandler sends you a
1:42:48message what does that say
1:42:53just need you to know cuz I have
1:42:54horrible reception
1:42:58okay then it was sent again does that
1:43:00look
1:43:02right yes okay and just read that again
1:43:05if you could uh I just need you to know
1:43:06cuz I have horrible
1:43:08reception
1:43:17okay your understanding at that time is
1:43:19that he was at the U health hospital on
1:43:21Science Drive or the clinic
1:43:24correct you respond
1:43:27okay um then what do you say
1:43:31there do they not I meant to say do they
1:43:34not have Wi-Fi
1:43:37okay what do you say after that we can
1:43:39snap if that's easier why would that be
1:43:43easier because um they generally have
1:43:46Wi-Fi at all W health clinics and so if
1:43:49he doesn't have reception on his phone
1:43:51we could still snap with the Wi-Fi
1:43:54now we're talking about text you're
1:43:56texting and now you're texting about
1:43:58snapping but in the realm of this
1:44:00conversation a couple questions when
1:44:02you're texting someone um just on the
1:44:04normal app Apple iPhone and you're
1:44:06texting someone absent something crazy
1:44:09you're not seeing their location at
1:44:11least in your experience right on the
1:44:14Apple location in these text messages
1:44:16this isn't how you looked at where
1:44:17Chandler's location is right it was
1:44:19Snapchat correct okay so if
1:44:23someone in your experience wasn't on
1:44:26Snapchat or able to use Snapchat because
1:44:28they didn't have Wi-Fi or a signal would
1:44:30you be able to tell where their location
1:44:31is
1:44:35no can you turn
1:44:38off on Snapchat the ability of someone
1:44:40to see your location
1:44:46yes at 223 after arriving at the doctor
1:44:49what does Chandler say to you no
1:44:51connection to even load
1:44:54Snapchat and no
1:44:58Wi-Fi but I can still get your IM
1:45:06messages no connection to even load
1:45:09Snapchat and no
1:45:16Wi-fi did that make sense to
1:45:20you the texts or that he' able to get
1:45:23messages but wasn't getting Wi-Fi or
1:45:25didn't have any service for
1:45:27Snapchat
1:45:29no generally in your relationship with
1:45:32Chandler or anyone else that you've been
1:45:34involved with or any of your Snapchat
1:45:36friends that you follow their location
1:45:38um are you generally able to see their
1:45:39location when they're in normal cities
1:45:41like Madison yes and you work in the
1:45:45healthcare field right I do generally
1:45:48Wi-Fi available at most of those places
1:45:50yes
1:45:54in fact what do you say to Chandler at
1:45:56224 weird they all have
1:45:59it have
1:46:01it but maybe it's your
1:46:07carrier what does Chandler
1:46:09say I'll try and get it
1:46:12on I'll try and get it
1:46:15on again we need to point out why
1:46:17Chandler's messages are sending
1:46:19duplicates because it shows the lengths
1:46:21he will go to supplement his lies he is
1:46:23telling Catherine that he has poor
1:46:25reception and that his health clinic has
1:46:26no Wi-fi meaning that while he is there
1:46:29he will be unable to answer her messages
1:46:31his reception is obviously fine and if
1:46:33he were at the clinic he'd be able to
1:46:35connect with their Wi-Fi without issue
1:46:37but he doesn't want to respond to cat he
1:46:39wants some time to himself so he can
1:46:41invent new lies to make her feel
1:46:42horrible but in lie of simply telling
1:46:44her that he has bad reception he sends
1:46:46the text messages twice that way if she
1:46:49suspects that he was lying she has some
1:46:51kind of proof that he wasn't
1:46:53[Music]
1:46:58so around that time that Chandler said
1:47:00he was going back out to the farm he
1:47:02stressed I think you identified 540
1:47:05which was another set of messages from
1:47:06that same day if I haven't I'll move 540
1:47:09in
1:47:10evidence I think that you have okay and
1:47:14which day if you can restate the day
1:47:16sure so we're now we're on the the
1:47:17seventh thank
1:47:21you can you the first message we have on
1:47:24here from Chandler on the 7th around
1:47:2611:22 going to
1:47:29police what does he say next can I have
1:47:31$5 for a soda and
1:47:39chips and what did you respond I don't
1:47:42have $5 B
1:47:46okay going to
1:47:48police around that time was there a
1:47:50discussion again of why he was going to
1:47:52the police
1:47:54yes to reporting his parents missing
1:47:56okay at this point what did he told you
1:47:58about his parents being missing so they
1:48:00you knew they were scheduled to come
1:48:02back but what did you learn since that
1:48:03would cause Chandler to go to the
1:48:05police um his mom had an appoint uh
1:48:09appointment for her
1:48:11cancer and um it was uh very important
1:48:15so it was very unusual for her to miss
1:48:21that um
1:48:23did you have a conversation with
1:48:24Chandler about whether he should or
1:48:27shouldn't make a missing person's report
1:48:28for his parents yes what did you tell
1:48:32him I said he should they've been gone
1:48:35for so long and he hasn't heard from
1:48:37them did he say anything about what was
1:48:39going into his decision on whether to
1:48:41report them missing or not report them
1:48:43missing
1:48:47yet can you repeat that sure did
1:48:50Chandler tell you anything about why he
1:48:52hadn't made a missing person's report at
1:48:54that
1:48:56time like until then like why that day
1:49:00yeah because
1:49:03um he thought they were just running lay
1:49:06and the deciding factor to report them
1:49:09missing was his mom missing that
1:49:10appointment okay now the next day July
1:49:148th uh Thursday um you were supposed to
1:49:17go to work right correct um that night
1:49:21the police had been involved
1:49:23in in Chandler's house and and talking
1:49:25to people right correct were you one of
1:49:27those people talked to by the
1:49:29police on Thursday
1:49:34yeah sure can you restate the question I
1:49:37apologize no no you're doing great did
1:49:39you go with Chandler to report his
1:49:41parents missing I did not go with him to
1:49:43report them missing okay do you know
1:49:45were you over at Chandler's house when
1:49:46the police came over that
1:49:49night on Wednesday yeah I was not there
1:49:53okay the next day um you went to work
1:49:55and and tell me about work that day um I
1:50:00was uh very emotional and upset
1:50:04and just very distraught and I
1:50:08just um I just couldn't be there because
1:50:11I was really worried about his parents
1:50:14and so
1:50:16um I talked to my bosses about leaving
1:50:19early so I could go go be at the house
1:50:22with CH there and wait until
1:50:26we once more we have to point out the
1:50:28stark contrast between cat's reaction
1:50:30and Chandlers both during the testimony
1:50:33as well as when Bart and Christa were
1:50:34reported missing as cat recalls what
1:50:36occurred she begins to break down
1:50:38because her boyfriend's parents were
1:50:40important to her they were her friends
1:50:42they spent a significant amount of time
1:50:44together and even though Chandler tried
1:50:45to poison her against them she still
1:50:47loved them deeply meanwhile Chandler has
1:50:49been stoic the entire time she has been
1:50:52on the stand and is either taking notes
1:50:53or doodling there is also the matter
1:50:55that cat had to tell Chandler to report
1:50:57his own parents missing after they
1:50:59seemingly failed to return from their
1:51:01cabin she had been more concerned with
1:51:03his parents lack of communication while
1:51:04they were away because Christa would
1:51:06text Chandler constantly earlier in
1:51:08cat's testimony she recalled how Christa
1:51:10would send the pictures of the lake as
1:51:12well as the cabin and various things she
1:51:14thought they would like even when
1:51:15Chandler was healthy she was always
1:51:17looking after and talking to her son but
1:51:19that weekend she was alarmingly quiet
1:51:22Chandler attempted to write off cat's
1:51:23increasing concerns telling her that
1:51:25they had spotty reception at the cabin
1:51:27that his parents needed a break from his
1:51:29medical needs and were taking time to
1:51:31themselves but Cat still noted their
1:51:33lack of communication was strange when
1:51:35they failed to return home she was the
1:51:37one to press him to speak to the police
1:51:39because she cared about them unlike
1:51:41Chandler but how long did you make it at
1:51:43work that day before you left I was
1:51:45there Max 30 40 minutes okay and where
1:51:49did you go after you
1:51:51left I
1:51:53um I am stopped at my mom's home to grab
1:51:56groceries so I could go to the house and
1:51:59cook for Chandler while we waited
1:52:03okay when you got to the house um was
1:52:06anyone else
1:52:08[Music]
1:52:10there when I pulled up uh Chandler was
1:52:13outside talking to um
1:52:17reporters at any point did any other
1:52:19members of of Chandler's family show up
1:52:21at the house yes who uh Mitch and his
1:52:25fiance um did Mitch stay outside or did
1:52:28he come in uh he came in the home and
1:52:31what did Mitch do
1:52:34um he uh walked around the house
1:52:38um trying to see if there was anything
1:52:41that Chandler maybe missed about his
1:52:43parents
1:52:44leaving um as Mitch walked around the
1:52:47house what did Chandler do
1:52:49um he followed him
1:52:54you followed him
1:53:00yes later that day you were asked to go
1:53:02to the police station down here downtown
1:53:05right yeah yes yeah and uh was Chandler
1:53:09asked to do the same yes um you were
1:53:12brought down here by the police right
1:53:15yes were you in the same car or
1:53:17different cars when they brought you
1:53:18down here I was in a
1:53:23you doing
1:53:25okay I was in a different squad car than
1:53:28Chandler okay um did you go into an
1:53:31interview room with the police yes I did
1:53:34and um did they ask you questions yes do
1:53:38you know about how long you were down
1:53:40here that
1:53:41night a couple hours did you answer all
1:53:44of their questions yes at that point um
1:53:49and I'm asking about what your mindset
1:53:50was at the time um did you believe that
1:53:54you or Chandler had done anything wrong
1:53:56at that point no when we covered cat's
1:54:00original police interview we discussed
1:54:02how she unintentionally provided
1:54:03evidence of Chandler's guilt now it's
1:54:05extremely likely that this evidence
1:54:07would have been provided if she knew
1:54:08that her boyfriend had killed his
1:54:09parents because she seems like an
1:54:11extremely morally just person who wants
1:54:13to help everyone but at the time of the
1:54:15interview she not only believed that
1:54:17Chandler couldn't be involved she was
1:54:19certain that she had proof that he
1:54:20wasn't she had spent the majority of the
1:54:22weekend with him and she knew he had
1:54:24been in the area whereas his parents had
1:54:26been at their cabins not only that she
1:54:28knew that he was physically incapable of
1:54:30harming anyone due to his injuries
1:54:32injuries that she felt like he had
1:54:34provided tangible proof of so when the
1:54:36police asked her how they spent their
1:54:38time and what he did when he was away
1:54:39from her she happily showed them their
1:54:41text messages the screenshots of his
1:54:43location from Snapchat and all the
1:54:45evidence that would later be used to
1:54:47prove his guilt she believed genuinely
1:54:49that she was exonerating him when she
1:54:50was actually doing the exact
1:54:52opposite okay were you emotional during
1:54:55emotional during that interview yes okay
1:54:59um how do you express your emotions
1:55:02sometimes I cry a lot or if I get too
1:55:06anxious um or emotional I start
1:55:10vomiting those things were happening
1:55:12that night yeah police asked at times to
1:55:16look at your your phone and and
1:55:19photographs and things of that sort
1:55:23pardon and did you show them anything
1:55:25they wanted to see anything they wanted
1:55:27yeah I gave to them why was it important
1:55:30to you to cooperate at that time because
1:55:34I I I just believed his parents were
1:55:39missing and I just want them to be
1:55:48found so you can tell us if you need a
1:55:50break or if you want to keep going I'm
1:55:52almost done but it's up to you well you
1:55:54can keep going
1:55:56okay
1:55:59um were there any of the police
1:56:01questions that you would not
1:56:05answer not that I can
1:56:07recall um and did the police contact you
1:56:10after that night to talk again yes and
1:56:14did you fully cooperate and speak with
1:56:15them that
1:56:16time yes and several times law
1:56:20enforcement and other people I've
1:56:22contacted you to speak about this and
1:56:25have you cooperated all of those times
1:56:27yes you've met with me personally a
1:56:29couple of times correct
1:56:32yes have you always in the course of of
1:56:35this investigation done your best to
1:56:36tell the absolute truth of what happened
1:56:39yes
1:56:40okay now I I I'm almost done and and I
1:56:45have to ask I'm going ask a couple
1:56:46questions and I hope you appreciate why
1:56:47I'm asking them
1:56:52were you the person who was with
1:56:54Chandler the most
1:56:56from let's say the 1st July 1st all the
1:57:00way through when you were in the police
1:57:02station getting interviewed on the 8th
1:57:03were you maybe the person that at least
1:57:05in your knowledge were you the person
1:57:06who was maybe with them the most yes and
1:57:09were you the person who other than
1:57:11Chandler was in based on your knowledge
1:57:13in the halderson home the most
1:57:17yes prior to eventually being told what
1:57:19happened by police and and perhaps
1:57:22the defense investigators or myself
1:57:26um um did you
1:57:29know that Bart and Chrystal halderson
1:57:32had
1:57:33died
1:57:35no and Kat did you have absolutely
1:57:39anything to do with cleaning anything up
1:57:41or their
1:57:43disappearance no
1:57:47okay no further questions okay okay the
1:57:51next portion of the footage is the
1:57:52cross-examination done by Chandler's
1:57:54Council the case against Chandler is so
1:57:56robust that there is very little that
1:57:58the defense can do to try and assert his
1:58:00innocence besides attempting to
1:58:02discredit the evidence against him in
1:58:04fact the redirect is so short that we
1:58:05have opted to not include it because
1:58:07there is very little to be said about it
1:58:09while Chandler would have been deemed
1:58:10the primary suspect without cat's help
1:58:13Bart and Christa's bodies might not have
1:58:15been found and Chandler might have
1:58:16gotten away with his parents' murder the
1:58:18evidence the cat was able to provide led
1:58:20to the police making multiple
1:58:22discoveries and she should be
1:58:23tremendously proud of herself however
1:58:25it's unlikely that she feels that while
1:58:27we obviously don't know her a
1:58:29significant portion of her life was
1:58:30spent trusting someone who lied about
1:58:32everything in his life she was made to
1:58:34trust and feel close to a person who
1:58:36never existed who would have killed his
1:58:38parents if the opportunity arose and
1:58:40that kind of wound probably sticks with
1:58:42a person as we stated earlier the
1:58:44Public's response to this case has
1:58:45always been one of dismay how could the
1:58:47people in his life not know he was lying
1:58:50but it's our sincere hope that with this
1:58:51video and the others that we have shown
1:58:53how that is the case how Chandler went
1:58:55above and beyond to fabricate an entire
1:58:58existence that was impossible and how he
1:59:00personally victimized everyone in his
1:59:02life if you've made it to this portion
1:59:03in the video thank you so much for
1:59:05watching this video was a longtime
1:59:07recommendation from viewers like you and
1:59:09we hope that we were able to cover this
1:59:10topic with nuance and Grace if you have
1:59:12any notes complaints or just want to
1:59:14leave your own case recommendation leave
1:59:16a comment down below or email us at
1:59:18dread. official gmail.com have a great
1:59:21day and remember to stay safe

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