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When Politics Divides the Ummah: A Practical Guide to Sectarian Tensions — Transcript

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0:00We're going to finish off with the issue
0:02of sectarianism. When two entities are
0:04at war and the one is Sunni, the other
0:06is Shia. Scholars on both sides
0:08exacerbate the tensions. Sunni and Shia,
0:11they've been around for 1,350
0:13years. You think you're going to solve
0:15it in Dallas, Texas? Any group that
0:17thinks it is permissible to [music] beat
0:18or kill other people who disagree with
0:21them? We cannot tolerate them. Having a
0:23different opinion doesn't make you a
0:25kafir. Politics plays a role in much of
0:28sectarianism.
0:29commissioned to write a reputation of
0:32the issuality
0:35will not be fortified [music] by
0:37destroying the faith of other people.
0:39Alhamdulillah.
0:45So inshallah we're going to finish off
0:48with the issue of sectarianism. Uh on a
0:51personal note, this is one of the areas
0:52I personally love. We could speak very
0:54long about sectarianism but obviously uh
0:58time is limited and so we need to move
1:00on to our next session and there's also
1:03going to be inshallah an exciting
1:05announcement at the end of our class.
1:06So, uh, we were talking about some
1:10practical words of advice about how to
1:12deal with the variety within the ummah.
1:15And I'm going to continue from where I
1:17left off by teaching you some maximum
1:19rules because my goal is to teach you
1:22knowledge that will will benefit you for
1:24the rest of your life. I don't want to
1:26go over different groups, different
1:28theologies at this stage. It's not what
1:30we're here for. I want to teach you
1:31maxims and principles that every time a
1:34disagreement comes you've taken notes
1:36yesterday last week taken notes today or
1:39at least watch it and take notes from
1:40there so that no matter what situation
1:42arises you will have a template to deal
1:46with the diversity of thought. So
1:49continuing from last week I think I did
1:51four or five uh um issues last week. So
1:54today inshallah I want to continue from
1:56where we left off and I'm going to
1:58mention the next rule and that is know
2:01that sectarianism
2:04almost always has political or
2:08institutional fermentation behind it.
2:11Understand that you are generally
2:15speaking being utilized in a battle far
2:19beyond you and the guy you're talking to
2:21about the various groups out there. What
2:23do I mean by this? There's two types of
2:26people who ferment hatred.
2:29Number one, political entities. And
2:33number two, innocent, perhaps gullible
2:36people who get caught up in those
2:38political wars and battles. Generally
2:41speaking, intra-Muslim fights have
2:45people, and I'm not being
2:47conspiratorial. I'm just being
2:48historical here, that want to exacerbate
2:52that fight not because of theology, but
2:56because of politics.
2:59History shows us the most obvious
3:02example. Sunni Shia palemics flares up
3:06when the Sunni world and the Shia world
3:08are having a political spat. This has
3:11always happened throughout all of
3:13history. That doesn't make Sunnism or
3:15Shiaism right or wrong. I'm just telling
3:17you when two entities are at war and the
3:21one is Sunni, the other is Shia,
3:23surprise surprise. scholars on both
3:25sides exacerbate the tensions. Just I'm
3:29asking you to be aware of it. That's it.
3:31Doesn't mean it's right or wrong.
3:32Doesn't mean that the one side becomes
3:33innocent or not. I'm simply saying that
3:36history has shown us, for example, one
3:39of the most bitter situations to arise
3:43between Sunnis and Shiaism took place
3:45when the Sephit Empire and the Ottoman
3:48Empire were having a fullout war with
3:51one another. This is 500 years ago. In
3:53fact, many historians say that the
3:56current Sunnishia hatred taking place
4:00has its roots in the Ottoman Safavidit
4:03battle of 500 years ago because that
4:05wasn't just one battle. It was a battle
4:06of many decades. Multiple dynasties. It
4:09was like a four or five decade battle.
4:12Multiple generations were at it at each
4:14other's throats. And it was not
4:16coincidentally at that time frame that
4:20many Sunni scholars of the Ottoman lands
4:22and many Shers of the Sephid lands they
4:24wrote tracks, treatises, books,
4:27reputations that basically made of each
4:30other. Now question to you, do you think
4:32politics played no role? Coincidentally,
4:34it just so happened that the Sunnis of
4:37the Ottoman lands discovered there's
4:39something called 12ism. I'm not accusing
4:41them of being evil. I'm not accusing
4:42them of being paid agents. I'm simply
4:44saying as I have kept on telling you
4:46humans are products of their time and
4:49place right humix cannot get out of the
4:52time just like right now we're looking
4:54at xenophobia we're looking at
4:55Islamophobia right now all of us are
4:57concerned about gender issues our
4:59great-grandmothers couldn't care less
5:01about gender issues because it wasn't on
5:02their you know social uh paradigm to
5:05discuss we're born in a time and place
5:07where certain issues take center stage
5:09and that impacts how we look at the
5:11world okay all I'm saying sectarianism
5:14is no different. It's no different at
5:16all. And generally speaking, when two
5:20entities of different sects, different
5:22groups have problems of a political
5:24nature, surprise, surprise, their
5:27scholars exacerbate their tensions.
5:29Innocent people, you and me, get swept
5:32up because we look up to those scholars,
5:34right? And I'm not saying those scholars
5:36are evil. I'm not saying all of them are
5:38purchased and bought for. No, I'm not
5:39saying that. I'm saying there's a
5:41political element. That's all right. So
5:44be aware of this and we can go more and
5:46more. I mean the very first time where
5:48the isis became a big deal was when nam
5:53basically uh you know uh the the isis
5:55were becoming political agitators. They
5:58were becoming a fifth column. They were
6:00sending out assassins. The famous story
6:01of the hashi and the assassins. You can
6:04look it up. And so uh Nam Mul basically
6:07uh commissioned Gazali to write a
6:11reputation of the isis. This was the
6:14first time that official takir was made.
6:17Again I'm not agreeing or disagreeing.
6:18I'm being historical. I'm just being
6:20historical here. Don't read in as many
6:22of my critics do. I'm teaching you
6:24facts. These are indubitable facts that
6:28when the isis became a political threat
6:30and they did become a political threat.
6:32They became a fifth column. They wanted
6:33to assassinate the Khalifa and they
6:35wanted they had their own mini dynasty
6:36and empire right the the the the
6:39Nazarids had the the the own empire the
6:42and the also before them that was when
6:46Nism literally asked Im Ghazali hey I
6:50need your help can you explain who these
6:52people are and write a reputation of
6:54them and I'm not doubting Gazali at all
6:56Gazali researched them and Gazali wrote
6:58the reputation of the balcony it's one
7:01of his famous books you can read it is
7:03translated to English reputation of the
7:05Baltanites, right? Who are the
7:06Baltanites? What we now call the the the
7:09predecessors of the Aakhanis or the
7:11Bhra, they're the Baltanites. And he
7:12made clear of them. I'm not doubting he
7:15was sincere. Not at all. Don't misquote
7:17me. But politics played a role. And you
7:22can't help but be a part of the
7:23zeitgeist that you're you're living in
7:25the the time and place you're living in.
7:26And my PhD dissertation, you can read
7:29it. A PD PDF is available online. And
7:31I've given library chats about this. The
7:33Sufi Salafi divide. It goes back to the
7:36Ashi divide of the 4th century in
7:39Baghdad. When the Saljuks who were ashi
7:43entered Baghdad that was hi and there
7:45was a clash between the the was and the
7:50vazers that were and that clash was
7:52manifested in a
7:57fight which became the fight to this
8:01day. When did it begin? politics. When
8:04the Seljuk Empire was a threat to the
8:07Baghdadian institution and there were
8:09sectarian divides, sectarianism was
8:11fermented. It became bigger than it was
8:14before and it never died after that. So
8:18what is my point in telling you this?
8:21Don't be naive and one-dimensional.
8:24Don't be simplistic. When somebody comes
8:26and says those guys, those guys, those
8:27guys, that person might be sincere. Nine
8:31times out of 10 there are people above
8:33him. Nine times out of 10 this is not
8:36conspiratorial. There are people that
8:38have I'm not even saying wrong nia
8:40vested interests. Yes vested interest in
8:44increasing the tension.
8:47That's all I'm asking you to do to be
8:49aware that politics plays a role in much
8:53of sectarianism. And it's not even just
8:55politics to be even more sad here. It's
8:58also about domain. It's also about
9:00power. It's also about wealth. It's also
9:03about control of the masses. Right? You
9:05got two madrases one block from each
9:07other. And there are different firkas.
9:09Two masids one block from each other.
9:11And they're different fkas. Listen guys,
9:13masids are also businesses. Masids need
9:16people to come. Masjids need donations.
9:19So in order to get donations, they have
9:21to diss the competitors.
9:24You can't even
9:26think about your own nia when you are a
9:29cleric on that pulpit and the other
9:32group is different than you. Perhaps
9:34even you don't even know your hidden nya
9:37when you make them a bigger deal than
9:39they really are because they're
9:41encroaching on your territory. They
9:44might potentially take your people away
9:46from you, right? the the neighborhood is
9:48divided and instead of coming to your
9:51going to the other you don't even
9:52perhaps understand your own nia where if
9:55you weren't in that neighborhood it
9:56wouldn't be that big of a deal but now
9:58it becomes even bigger masid politics
10:00plays a role here right so all I'm
10:02saying be a little bit more deeper and
10:06don't be surface level that is the next
10:08point I don't even know what point we're
10:09on so you get you know just you can
10:10write it down here okay moving on point
10:13number two for today let's just do
10:15today's numbering point number two for
10:16Okay, now I need you to pay attention.
10:19This is a little bit complicated. I wish
10:20I had a diagram. This requires a
10:22diagram, but it's it's quite simple
10:24conceptually speaking.
10:27Anytime you disagree with somebody, I
10:29repeat, anytime you disagree with
10:31somebody on any matter, I need you to
10:34pay attention.
10:36You automatically categorize that
10:38disagreement in a particular spectrum. A
10:43place on a box. The box is on a
10:45spectrum. Listen to me now. Some
10:49differences, you respect them.
10:53You will somebody has an opinion that is
10:55maybe quotequote stricter than yours.
10:56You're like, "Oh, mashallah." Okay. You
10:59respect that difference of opinion.
11:00That's one box. Another difference, move
11:04an one one level left to that box.
11:06You're neutral. You don't care. Okay.
11:09Food differences. You like hamburgers.
11:11They like biryani. I mean, okay, no big
11:13deal. It's a difference of opinion.
11:14Sometimes even in theological issues, no
11:17big deal. Okay. This and that. Another
11:19difference. You move a little bit more.
11:21You tolerate. You don't like it, but
11:23it's no big deal. Okay. That's another
11:26difference of opinion. You don't
11:27necessarily like it, but okay. I'll bear
11:29with it. We're friends, and it's not a
11:31big deal to me. Kalas, that's your way,
11:32my way. Okay. Yet another will be you
11:35strongly disagree, but you can still
11:37remain friends, but they're not going to
11:38be close friends because that
11:39disagreement means you're not going to
11:41be close to me. But once in a while
11:43we'll see each other. You know, we're
11:45two degrees of separation. You get my
11:47point here, right? Are you guys
11:48following me? Yet another would be that
11:50that disagreement is so fundamental that
11:53because of it, I really cannot maintain
11:56a friendship with you. But if I see you
11:58at a gathering, I won't walk away from
11:59you. Okay, you get my point here. We're
12:02going from one side, yet another will be
12:05so antagonistic that you cannot be in
12:08the same room as them. How can you
12:10invite this person? And by the way, this
12:12spectrum is not just religious, it's
12:15political as well. The cancel culture, I
12:17mean, we are we have people that if you
12:20support a particular candidate or
12:22particular policy, in our eyes, that's a
12:24cancel culture. You cannot be in the
12:26same room as that person. How could you
12:28invite this person to this party? How
12:30could you invite him to this hour? How
12:31could you how dare you invite somebody
12:33who endorses that idea, right? Or you're
12:36like, "Oh my god, he invited him. Okay,
12:37well, I'll just avoid him." You you put
12:40somebody because of an opinion in a
12:42particular box, right? Are you guys
12:45following me? Is that clear? Right? You
12:47have the spectrum of actual respect. You
12:49will respect an opinion different than
12:50your own. Or most of our differences, no
12:53big deal. Okay? It's your way, your way,
12:55my way. No big deal. Neutral. Or slight
12:57disagreement. We can still be good
12:58friends. Or strong disagreement. We can
13:01be friendly. Or disagreement to the
13:03level of acquaintances. You get my point
13:05here, right? Now, here's here's the
13:07point. Every single human being without
13:09exception has this box in their minds as
13:13they interact with people. You do and I
13:16do.
13:18Very few people analyze those boxes.
13:23Very few people think about them.
13:27Very few people reason in their own
13:31minds why somebody would be put in
13:34category A versus category B versus
13:37category C and so on and so forth. I am
13:40asking you if you want to really be
13:41intellectuals you have to do that
13:45because when you do that guess what you
13:47will discover. What do you think you're
13:49going to discover if you actually do
13:50this exercise
13:53loudly? Be brave.
13:56bias.
13:57>> Okay, you're going to discover your
13:58biases. What else will you discover?
14:04>> So, I would extrapolate from that. You
14:07will discover, you didn't say the word,
14:09but I think you're hinting at this.
14:10There are inconsistencies
14:13in your own dealings with peoples.
14:17And you might overlook certain things
14:20from certain people that you won't
14:21overlook the same thing in other people.
14:24You will discover that you are not being
14:26faithful to your own epistemology.
14:30You will discover that at times you
14:31don't even have a reason for why you
14:34place somebody in one box. And when you
14:36try to reason, you will bankrupt
14:38yourself cuz you won't have one. It's
14:40going to be emotion rather than
14:42intellect.
14:44As I said, listen to me carefully. All
14:47of us operate with these boxes in our
14:49minds. We don't even know we have them.
14:50But now that I've taught them to you,
14:52you know you have them, right? All of us
14:54operate with these spectrums of how we
14:57deal with people. Hardly anybody thinks
15:01about why hardly anybody reasons out.
15:04And as I said, it's not just
15:07theological, politics, social, gender
15:10views, right guys? There are people that
15:13have views on gender and they say them
15:15out loud or whatever and you're so
15:17irritated and frustrated you you don't
15:19have anything to do with them. That's
15:21like cancel. Okay, you just this is not
15:23somebody I want to deal with. It's
15:25nothing to do with religion is his or
15:27her views on whatever it might be. We we
15:30have this on every single issue. Okay,
15:32for some people um what is it? Veganism.
15:36Okay, there are people that are I mean
15:37if you ask me when you remove religion
15:39you have to create religion. When you
15:41remove God, you have to make other
15:42things God. Right? So when there is no
15:44religion, things that might be
15:45secondary, tertiary in most people lives
15:47become primary. And there are religious
15:51vegans. I cannot attend a gathering
15:54where meat is being eaten. You all know
15:57people like this because in their eyes,
16:00they're going to put that in the box of
16:02non-negotiables. Cancel culture here,
16:05right? My point is we all have these
16:08boxes for all differences of opinion.
16:11Social, political, anthropological,
16:13religious, theological, we all have
16:15them. My ask of you, if you want to be a
16:19true intellectual,
16:21you have to analyze for politics, for
16:25social issues and cultural issues, for
16:27whatever issues and then for our class
16:30for religious issues. Why a person goes
16:33in each box? And you better have good
16:36reasons and you better be consistent.
16:39It's not my job right now to teach you
16:42because I don't want to indoctrinate
16:43you, but it is my job to cause you to
16:46think. That's my main purpose here to
16:48force you to be uncomfortable and think.
16:50And so I am teaching you and forcing you
16:53to think. Why do you place somebody in,
16:56oh, I respect that opinion even if I
16:58don't follow it. Wow, you're you're
16:59actually better than me because you have
17:01that opinion. And why do you say this is
17:03neutral, no big deal. Okay. And why do
17:04you say well we'll agree to disagree we
17:06can still be good friends and so on and
17:07so forth that's the first thing I'm
17:09asking you think about those boxes and
17:11the second thing I am telling you for me
17:14I'm not asking you I'm just telling you
17:16who I am me personally I try to maximize
17:21as much as I can the neutral box or
17:24agree to disagree with a civil matter
17:26box I this is my philosophy
17:30most people don't have it most people
17:32want to put as any theological issues in
17:34the awkward or the cancel culture box,
17:37right? And me personally, I used to be
17:39like that and I've outgrown that phase.
17:42I like to try my best to accommodate as
17:47vast of a spectrum as possible. But yes,
17:49there are things that because you hold
17:52them, you can probably not be a close
17:55friend because that's simply
17:57theologically too beyond. But I can
18:00treat you in a civil manner. I don't
18:01have to spit in your face. I don't have
18:03to punch you. I don't have to slap you.
18:04Okay, we can we can just if we see each
18:06other, how are you doing? But because
18:08you hold this belief, it's a little bit
18:10I can't be close. That's fine. I get
18:12that. But my philosophy, I try to
18:14minimize that box as small as I can. I
18:17don't want to make it big. And the
18:20cancel culture that is the smallest
18:23possible.
18:25And we're going to get there. What are
18:26the red lines? That's another lecture
18:27we'll have to give because there are red
18:29lines, right? And for me I'll mean it
18:32simplistically to deny that which is
18:36known from the religion self-evidently
18:39i.e. Allah is one and Allah is beyond
18:42our comprehension and Allah did not come
18:44down to earth in the figure of a man.
18:46There are groups that believe this and
18:48the prophet is the final prophet and
18:50there's heaven and hell. I mean, if
18:51anybody denies these basics as a
18:54claiming to be Muslim, you got to have
18:56some lines. No, that's just not Islam.
18:58And I can be nice to you, but no, you're
19:00not going to come and give a lecture in
19:01my mosque where I cannot respect you. I
19:03can be nice as a human being, but this
19:05is heresy to claim that God came in the
19:07form of a man. To claim that Jubilee
19:10visited a human being and gave him after
19:12the prophet, there are red lines. But
19:15other things, we'll have to agree to
19:17disagree and just okay, put them in the
19:19box as much as you can. And for me as I
19:21said to you mainstream orthodoxy is in
19:24the neutral category for me. Sufi,
19:27Salafies, Bis hadith, the jamaatiswanis,
19:32I don't bat an eyelid at all. Doesn't
19:34bother me at all. Not at all. To me, it
19:37is irrelevant. You're a good person. As
19:40I said, how you treat your mother is
19:42infinitely more important. And how you
19:43make of a certain theoretical
19:46characteristic of of that has no
19:48implication in our daily life. This is
19:50me. I'm not asking that of you. I've
19:52reached this of my own research because
19:54I wasn't like this 20 years ago. But
19:56it's me. It doesn't matter to me because
19:58in the end of the day, this has no
19:59tangible benefit. And if you have a
20:01belief that I really don't like, I don't
20:03like those people who disrespect the
20:05Sahabah. That is not a belief that I can
20:08admire. But I can treat this person
20:10nicely, say salam to them, interact with
20:12them. Without a doubt, it's difficult to
20:14have such a person to be a close
20:16confidant because their interpretation
20:18of Islam is so radically different that
20:21there's just going to be a mismatch. But
20:23I can still treat them civily and pray
20:26behind them, pray behind them and they
20:28can pray behind me. I can interact with
20:29them even if I disagree strongly. It
20:32doesn't mean I have to be rude, crude,
20:34harsh, nasty or mean. So I will tolerate
20:37and not respect cuz that is not
20:39something I respect. Okay? But when you
20:42go even beyond this for me another red
20:44line is violence.
20:47Any group that is forcing you to believe
20:50the way that it is, any group that
20:52thinks it is permissible to beat or kill
20:55other people who disagree with them, we
20:58cannot tolerate them. Likewise, any
21:01group that is intellectually violent,
21:03i.e. everybody is a kafir other than us
21:05or everybody's a other than us. Okay,
21:08we're not going to be physically violent
21:10against them, but we have the right to
21:12be intellectually harsh against them as
21:13well. They opened the door to
21:16intellectual harshness. We have to
21:18respond with a firm intellectual
21:20rebuttal. That is not tolerated. You're
21:22destroying the um you are a cancer. You
21:24are a cancer that is dividing the um and
21:27making petty issues the end all and be
21:30all and we will not allow this without a
21:32firm response. Other than this, me
21:35personally, I try my best to tolerate or
21:38agree to disagree or even disagree with
21:41civility. You don't have to be crude and
21:44nasty to people that are living their
21:45lives without harming us. So this point
21:48here, the second point for today,
21:50understand the spectrum of in of
21:55interacting with difference of opinion
21:57and analyze that spectrum and
22:01ask yourself why you are placing some
22:04opinions in some boxes and others in
22:06other boxes. And then it's up to you
22:09which box do you want to be the default.
22:11For me the default is tolerance. The
22:14default is live and let live to the best
22:16of my ability. Make this box if you ask
22:18me the largest box possible. Okay. Next
22:21point here.
22:23Point number three for today.
22:26The goal if you cannot solve the
22:30difference of opinion is to manage and
22:33contain it.
22:35You see you will not be able to convert
22:37everybody to your opinion. Understand
22:39that the other groups are here to stay.
22:42They've been around for 500 years, 1,000
22:45years, 1,300 years. Sunni and Shia,
22:48they've been around for 1,350
22:50years. You think you're going to solve
22:52it in Dallas, Texas in the year, current
22:54year that we're in? You think you will
22:56snap your fingers, raise your voice, and
22:57shout, and that's it. The problem will
22:58be gone. No. So deal with it. The goal
23:03then is not to eliminate the other
23:06group. It is to contain the disagreement
23:11in a civil manner.
23:13The goal should be what do we do now
23:15that we disagree?
23:17Imagine a cousin you don't really like.
23:21He's still your cousin or she's still
23:22your cousin. You're going to meet them
23:23at family gatherings. They're going to
23:25come at shadies and and you know janaz.
23:29You don't want to cause a scene. There's
23:30no point causing a scene. Deal with it.
23:33Contain. manage the difference of
23:36opinion. Be mature about this. The
23:39Muslim groups are all one large family.
23:42Again, we're not talking about those
23:43that believe in another god. That God
23:45came in the form of a man in in Atlanta,
23:46Georgia, or or that, you know, there is
23:48no heaven and hell like the Durus
23:50believe. We're not talking about those
23:51groups. The bulk of the ummah or our
23:53family. We talked about this multiple
23:55times. Having a different opinion
23:57doesn't make you a kafir. So, their
23:59family, deal with it. Even if you don't
24:01like them, make the goal after, as I
24:04said, after a person comes, they say
24:05this, they say this, they say this,
24:07after all the steam has been let out,
24:09just listen to them. After all the anger
24:11has come, say Jay, now what do you want
24:13me to do? Yeah, they do. What do we do
24:15now?
24:16What is the next step? After you have
24:19gotten all the Now, what do we do? Do
24:21they not represent 5% of the um, 1% of
24:24the um, 10% of the um, do they not
24:26represent a large group? Okay, we've
24:28just seen what happened to the board of
24:30education and how they've, you know,
24:32taken xenophobic, Islamophobic
24:34curriculums. Should we not work with
24:36them so that we have a better
24:37curriculum? So, manage the difference of
24:40opinion. Learn to disagree so that you
24:43do something uh contain the
24:45disagreement. Okay. The next point,
24:48fourth point here, the fourth point here
24:51is
24:53judge a group not by its fringe or
24:58unknown or private opinions, but rather
25:01by what they preach and teach. This is
25:05one of the fundamental problems that
25:07happens in sectarian disputes.
25:09A Sunni will go to Shia books and find
25:12one snippeter, another snipetier, and
25:14another snippet. A she will go and find
25:17things in this book, that book, and
25:19construct a caricature of the other that
25:22the other will not even recognize.
25:26Don't interview a Sunni about Sh
25:29beliefs. Would you interview a farright
25:32person about Islam?
25:34Even an academic
25:36who might factually say snippets of
25:40correct truth. The Quran says chapter 9
25:43verse4 slay the infant wherever you find
25:45them
25:46and the prophet did this and the hadith
25:49says this and Bkari says this and
25:51everything he says is factually correct
25:56would you like that you would not like
25:58that for your own faith then why do you
26:00allow your own cleric to do it to
26:02another Muslim's interpretation of Islam
26:04if you're not going to allow a kafa to
26:06do it to Islam why do you allow just
26:08because he's your cleric he gets away
26:10with
26:11He might not even be lying. Pause your
26:13footnote. Most of the time even they are
26:15misinformed and they will say things
26:16that are simply factually incorrect
26:19because that's what they have been
26:20taught. They've never interacted
26:22academically with the other. Trust me on
26:24this. The vast majority of scholars do
26:28not interact with scholars of other
26:30interpretations in an academic manner.
26:33They don't
26:34max. They'll just say salam and get
26:37along. if even that to actually sit and
26:40hear with humility and to learn. It goes
26:43against everything you've been taught.
26:44It doesn't work that way. Rare is it to
26:47find a person that has genuinely humbly
26:51studied or at least even paid attention
26:53to multiple strands of scholarship. It
26:55doesn't work that way. That's not how
26:57scholars are formed in our tradition.
26:59I'm just telling you how it is. So if
27:01that is the case then if there is a need
27:04for you to find out if there's any
27:06because you don't have your your life is
27:07limited you can only spend so much time
27:09on sectarianism. So if there's a need,
27:11you have a close friend that has another
27:13group or or whatever, then get
27:15information from the people that
27:17understand and know and believe in that
27:19strand so that you get it as the saying
27:22goes straight from the horse's mouth.
27:25Because what happens like I said when
27:27you go to the other the other if they
27:30are correct which most of the time
27:32they're not will take snippets and
27:35construct a caricature that might be
27:39correct in its juyat in its specific
27:42issues but it's put together in an
27:45abnormal manner in a manner that is
27:48almost sacriiggious unrecognizable
27:52and I've do this in my class all the
27:54time advanced classes. This is not for
27:56the for the graduate level classes that
27:58I teach graduate level where the
28:00students are prepared. They have a lot
28:01of reading and I coach them. I bring in
28:04for the classes that I teach in this
28:06issue. I bring in experts who believe in
28:10their particular strands of Islam to
28:12interact with the graduate level for an
28:14hour. Say here talk to them all you
28:16want. And what that does is that it
28:20shows that okay, they're not coming out
28:22of thin air. I see where they're coming
28:24from even if I disagree. And it removes
28:26simplistic caricatures and crude
28:29stereotypes. So the fourth point, go
28:33straight to the horse's mouth if you
28:34need to. You don't have to if you
28:36because you meaning you don't have to do
28:39your research for every single because
28:41your time is limited. But if you do need
28:43to form an opinion, do not form an
28:45opinion for somebody who's already
28:46biased. Form an opinion from somebody
28:48who is an authority and take from them
28:52so that at least you will understand why
28:54they say what they say because sometimes
28:56you will find a fringe opinion that is
29:00not held by any you know mainstream
29:02scholar but it's held by some third tier
29:05you know local molana or something and
29:07the other god say oh look this is what
29:08they say and they caricature or
29:11stereotype an entire group in this
29:13regard and every group does it to its
29:16opponents.
29:18Sun Sunnis do it to Shia Salafies do it
29:20to Sufi Sufis do it to Wahhabis
29:22everybody does it to everybody you will
29:24find one third rate cleric not to a
29:26top-notch person he has a bizarre
29:28lecture and that lecture will or that
29:31incident or that will be made mainstream
29:33look that's what that group does don't
29:35fall for that you don't like it when the
29:38far right does it to us when they take a
29:40preacher out of context or they take a
29:43preacher within context but he's not
29:44mainstream and they do this all the time
29:47and they take some radical guy from some
29:49other place, you know, some European
29:50country and they take some clip, oh,
29:52this is what they're saying and you're
29:54like, no, I've never heard this in my
29:55whole life. So, if you're not going to
29:57allow the far right to do it, don't
29:59allow your group to do it to another
30:01group. And understand, sometimes people
30:03do this without any evil intent, but
30:06they're still wrong. You don't have to
30:09have evil intent to spread
30:10misinformation. To shock you guys, many
30:12in the far right are good people in
30:15their lives. They genuinely believe us
30:18Muslims are terrorists and evil. And if
30:20you were to meet them one-on-one, you
30:22would actually find them to be very
30:23pleasant in their personal lives and
30:25their one-on-one with their families
30:26that they've been brainwashed because
30:28they've never met a Muslim.
30:30If you can understand this about our
30:32society, the same thing applies to your
30:35and my as well. So
30:38this rule I put it as isolate isolated
30:41opinions and keep history as history.
30:44Meaning there are opinions that are
30:45fringe and isolated. Keep them isolated.
30:48Don't make them mainstream. And things
30:49might have happened in the past. Don't
30:52resurrect them for our time. Oh the Saf
30:54did this, the Ottomans did that. Okay,
30:56maybe they did. What does that got to do
30:57with me and you right now? So that's the
31:00fourth point here. The fifth point that
31:02I want to mention here and that is that
31:07iman
31:08faith spirituality
31:12will not be fortified
31:14by destroying the faith of other people.
31:18It will be built by fortifying your own
31:21spirituality.
31:23When you bash other people, there's a
31:27temporary temporary ecstasy that you
31:30get. some weird dopamine comes out.
31:33That's why we love to do it. That's why
31:34we love to gossip. That's why we love to
31:36backbite.
31:37Every group likes to have another group
31:40that they can bash. Just just human
31:43nature. It's not good. It is what it is.
31:45But destroying other people,
31:48civilizations, cultures, religions might
31:51make you feel good. It's not going to
31:53build your own iman.
31:55It's not. And that is why, listen to me
31:59carefully, those who immerse themselves
32:02in sectarianism inevitably burn out in
32:05religiosity.
32:07You see this yourself. [snorts]
32:10Those who immerse themselves in
32:12constantly bashing other people, but
32:15they're not concentrating on building
32:16their own iman, they fizzle out of their
32:19own religiosity. they stop being
32:21religious or they start cannibalizing on
32:24their own movement cuz once they've
32:25eaten everybody else nothing is left
32:27other than their own. So don't follow
32:30that trend and understand
32:34building your own spirituality
32:38does not require you to tear down the
32:40spirituality of other people.
32:43So if you are passionate about an idea,
32:46for example, we respect the Sahab Abu
32:48Bakr is a great guy. Okay. Yes, I agree.
32:51There's two ways to go about this.
32:54Number one, you bash the other group.
32:56Those guys say, those guys say, and
32:58after all this team has been let out and
33:00everybody's angry, everybody goes home
33:02and nothing has been accomplished. Or
33:04you can flip the script give an entire
33:07lecture the blessings of Abu Bakr
33:11the sacrifice of Abu Bakr in the hijra
33:14what Abu Bakr did throughout the and you
33:17don't bash anybody
33:19when you preach positive what happens
33:23iman is built
33:25spirituality soarses love increases and
33:29automatically without any evil hatred
33:32why would people not like oh you've done
33:34the job. You've done the job and you've
33:38done it in a wholesome manner and you've
33:41done it in a pure methodology and you've
33:44done it accomplishing building iman.
33:48You've got the goal. Now when somebody
33:50comes and says something nasty about the
33:53average Musl whoa why would you do that
33:55man doesn't make any sense and you've
33:58done it but if you started the opposite
34:00and all you did was bash bash bash
34:04yes the person will also bash but you
34:06haven't built anything and you haven't
34:08made them love the sahaba love
34:11so you see rather than destroy other
34:13people's ims I am telling you the better
34:16thing to do the Islamic thing to do the
34:18Quranic thing to do primarily
34:20Because at times reputations have to
34:22happen at the right audiences the right
34:24context the right language but as a
34:26default as a default you build and you
34:29don't destroy others. So if you're
34:31passionate about an idea go about it in
34:34a wholesome manner and that wholesome
34:36manner is what? Spiritual building
34:39fortifying your own teaching in a
34:42positive manner rather than a negative.
34:46So that's what is the fifth rule. Okay.
34:48the sixth and final rule inshallah and
34:50then we have a very important
34:50announcement and we actually have some
34:52time for Q&A.
34:54The final rule for today and again I
34:56could go on and on. I I used to I still
34:58teach this class at an advanced level.
35:00Sectarianism and theology is one of my
35:02areas of expertise and I really enjoy
35:04teaching it studying it. Once upon a
35:06time I was spiritually invested in it
35:08but now that investment has gone but I
35:10still enjoy it immensely. I I I love
35:13reading and writing about this topic uh
35:15the history of ideas. I'm writing two
35:16books currently. Both of them are about
35:18intellectual history. Uh Rashid is one
35:20and then the intellectual history of
35:22Islam. They both deal with these ideas
35:23like the concepts and you know the
35:25intellectual debates that take place. So
35:27the last point that I'll say for today's
35:29class and with this we come to a
35:31conclusion of sectarianism
35:34understand
35:37cooperation
35:38in some areas is not an endorsement of
35:42all areas. I repeat,
35:45friendliness and cooperation in some
35:48areas is not an endorsement in all
35:52areas. Now, here's the irony. We all
35:56know this in every single facet of our
35:59lives except sectarianism.
36:02That's how we live our lives.
36:04That is how we live our lives. We all
36:07know this. I don't need to teach you
36:08this. But when it comes to sectarianism,
36:12preachers tell you if you cooperate in
36:15an area, this means you endorse them in
36:17all areas.
36:19Nobody lives their life this way. In
36:22your workplace, have you vetted all the
36:24views of all of your colleagues? Do you
36:26agree with the person sitting next to
36:28you in the cubicle in every issue that
36:29he or she has? Of course not. But you
36:33understand we're coming together for the
36:35corporation. And then depending on how
36:37close you are goes back to those boxes.
36:39The closer you are, the closer friends
36:41you're going to be. And the more radical
36:42their lifestyle, their alternative
36:44lifestyles, whatever, the less
36:45friendship you're going to have outside
36:46of that. But you can still cooperate for
36:48the sake of the corporation, for the
36:50sake of your team, for the sake of your
36:51project. If we can do this for money and
36:54dollars, why can't we do this for the
36:56dean? We get along this way. That's how
36:58the world works. We all work for some
37:01greater good. Even if we don't agree
37:02with one another, that's how any project
37:04is done. Yet for some weird reason, we
37:07don't seem to understand that this same
37:10reality needs to apply for the different
37:13understandings of Islam. Just because I
37:16disagree with you on one area doesn't
37:18mean my cooperation in another area
37:20means the agreement doesn't exist. But
37:23this is the same sentiment that is used
37:25as the final card. The Trump card, as
37:27the saying goes, you guys don't know
37:28Bridge or what not, but there's
37:29something called the Trump card. Not
37:31Donald Trump. It's something that it's
37:33meant to to end all debate. They say
37:37those people say X Y and Z. How can you
37:40cooperate with them? Because if you
37:42cooperate it means you endorse X Y and
37:44Z. And again just smile at them. Say who
37:48said that cooperating with them it means
37:50I endorse X Y and Z. We have to get
37:52along for this reason and we'll
37:53respectfully disagree on that other
37:55aspect. Simple as that. I call this I
37:58have a a van diagram the circles of
38:00cooperation. And when I teach you that I
38:02have a ven diagram, circles of
38:03cooperation.
38:05There are circles that overlap with each
38:07other. The smallest circle, the smallest
38:09circle, religious teaching.
38:13Who do I invite to teach my children in
38:15the Sunday school? We have to agree on
38:17quite a lot. I'm not going to invite
38:19somebody that disagrees with my
38:21mainstream theology.
38:23Somebody says the Quran doesn't have to
38:25be understood literally. I'm sorry
38:26you're not coming and teaching my kids.
38:28Somebody says, "I don't believe in.
38:30You're not giving the and the masjid
38:31then because I have to monitor there has
38:33to be some level of people that I invite
38:35right somebody rejects the sahaba you're
38:37not going to you know come to the masid
38:39and give the you have the that so the
38:41religious circle teaching circle that's
38:43the most narrow for me personally
38:46narrowness is mainstream sunundism but
38:48for other people you have to follow my
38:50version of sunnism I am banned in many
38:52masjids simply because I'm not on the
38:54strand of their sunundism right and we
38:57don't ban anybody in our masid but in
38:59most massages
39:00you know they would not accept even
39:02Sunni clerics who are on a slightly
39:04different trajectory that's the way they
39:06are so be it that's not me I have my
39:09philosophy mainstream
39:12welcome to my masid epic is open to
39:14anybody that believes in the Quran wants
39:16to follow the sunnah of the prophet
39:18respects the sahaba then I'm not going
39:20to micromanage after that to me that's
39:23religious you know orthodoxy in a
39:25general manner I have my own agreements
39:27disagreements after that but that re
39:29reaches the are of religious be after
39:32this you have other boxes let's just say
39:34social social interaction okay you can
39:36interact socially with people you don't
39:38have to invite them to the they can be
39:40your friends then there's going to be
39:41broader broader broadest one is
39:43political cooperation political
39:46cooperation is the largest circle to be
39:48in that portion of the circle doesn't
39:51mean you have to automatically come to
39:53the middle of the circle you guys
39:54understand the ven diagrams without me
39:56drawing it right so the largest circle
39:59is political cooperation. For me to
40:02cooperate with somebody who's not even a
40:04Muslim for we all understand, we do this
40:08all the time. Doesn't mean I endorse
40:10your your your your politics. Doesn't
40:13mean I endorse your alternative
40:14lifestyles.
40:16When the encampments happened across
40:19this country and I spoke at half a dozen
40:21of them, you know I told you this. I
40:23spoke at Harvard, MIT, Yale, uh
40:26Northwestern. I spoke at a whole bunch
40:28of them. I'm telling you with my own two
40:31eyes along with the Muslim student
40:33association of the Palestinian one of
40:35the main groups that helped worthy LGBT
40:38groups. This is just a fact. They stood
40:41up, they petitioned, they lobbyed, they
40:43went against their own institutions.
40:47What are we going to do? When I speak in
40:50that audience, I am not talking about
40:53the issues of difference between us and
40:55them. I'm talking about
40:58and a genocide at that stage. I'm not
41:02giving them an interrogation
41:03inquisition. What is your views on
41:05morality? My presence there is not an
41:07endorsement of everybody on that camp.
41:09And anybody who says so honestly is
41:12speaking from within his own figment of
41:14imagination.
41:16What what do I what do I mean by this?
41:17Nobody in their right mind associates
41:22a person who's speaking at that
41:24encampment with every single person in
41:25their causes that encampment. The
41:27encampment is about everybody
41:29understands what has brought these
41:31diverse people together is okay. Nobody
41:34associates all the groups to agree with
41:37everybody about everything except
41:40because that's what the banner is about.
41:42The only people who problematize it are
41:45the sectarian people who problematize
41:46it. You understand? There's a
41:48circularity here. Oh, but you going
41:49there is going to endorse L. No, you're
41:51the only one that's saying it endorses.
41:54You're the only one problematizing. The
41:55one that's saying it endorses is the one
41:57who's problematizing. The one who's
41:58problematizing is the one who's saying
42:00is endorsement. The only group that says
42:02this are the people who problematize.
42:04Ignore them. Marginalize them. There is
42:06minority voice. Understand when we're
42:09living in a diverse society, we have to
42:11work with diverse groups of people. And
42:13when we work with them, when the banner
42:15underneath, when the slogan, when the
42:18cause is legitimate, cooperation is
42:20legitimate. Allah tells us in the Quran,
42:26cooperate in aspects of piety and good.
42:29When the aspect is pious, when the
42:31material is good, we will cooperate with
42:33anybody, a kafir, a mid, a zindik,
42:36anybody who wants to come and help us
42:39for the the Palestinian cause, come. But
42:41he wants to give auda. We're going to
42:43make it narrow. No. No. You cannot come
42:44if you don't believe in Allah and his
42:45messenger. If you don't respect the
42:46Quran and Sunnah. You see my point here?
42:48Circles of cooperation. We do this in
42:52our entire lives for all aspects of our
42:54life. Only when it comes to the religion
42:58that we say no, we cannot do this. So
43:00bottom line and with this we conclude
43:03all of sectarianism.
43:06I want you all to first and foremost
43:10have a pure heart.
43:12Secondly follow your gut instinct about
43:16sectarian issues. Does it make sense or
43:18not? Thirdly, ask Allah to help you. And
43:21fourthly, trust wise, senior
43:24scholarship.
43:27Don't follow young, overzealous,
43:30undereducated people in these very
43:32complex issues.
43:34Follow seasoned,
43:36respected,
43:38wise elders. I have said this to you in
43:41multiple issues.
43:43Youth have vitality. It is true. Youth
43:47have more energy. It is true. But youth
43:50don't have experience and wisdom. It's
43:53not your fault. You're only 20, 25 years
43:55old. How can you possibly have the
43:57wisdom of somebody who's lived three
43:58times more than you? Actually,
44:00technically they've lived five times
44:01more than you because you haven't really
44:02lived when you're 15 to 25 is 10 years,
44:04not 25 years. First 15 years of life,
44:07you're not really living with wisdom.
44:08You've actually only been an adult 10
44:10years when you're 25. Less than 10
44:11years. So, somebody who's 70 years old
44:14has been an adult seven times more than
44:17you. Seven times more than your
44:19experience. How can you not understand
44:23this is a person that has gone through
44:25life more than I have? Let me listen to
44:27this person. Do not follow the youth and
44:30the overzealous [snorts]
44:32online bros when it comes to these very
44:34sensitive issues. Go to people older
44:37than me, senior than me, and there are
44:39people like this in America. Ask them.
44:41They've lived life more than you and
44:43they've seen more than you. Have they
44:45experienced more than you? You might
44:47have more book knowledge. You might, but
44:50you do not have even a fraction of their
44:52experience and wisdom. So in these
44:55sensitive issues,
44:57follow your gut instinct. Use the intel
44:59Allah has given you. Make dua to Allah
45:01to help guide you in these regards. And
45:03then follow these basic principles and
45:05you will inshallah then navigate. And
45:07many things can be said. Cooperation
45:09with other groups is contextual. That's
45:11another point I can just quickly add
45:12here. In some context maybe there's not
45:15that much benefit to work with a
45:16particular group. In other context maybe
45:18there is benefit. So, it's a case-by
45:20case basis and it varies from time to
45:23place to location. It varies from era to
45:26era. So, don't be so dogmatic and
45:29narrow-minded. I given you this example
45:32before when the Muslims first came to
45:34this country, the immigrants came, they
45:37didn't have the luxury of asking which
45:39you follow. They were too few. Nobody
45:42cared.
45:45But you were five students in a city.
45:47How could you possibly divide upon?
45:50That's how all massagid in this country
45:52started without exception. Do you really
45:54think any masid started? Only my fk is
45:57going to pray here. No masid in the
45:59whole country including here in Dallas
46:01started like this. Go speak. The elders
46:03are still alive. Go speak to them. I
46:05told you this. My father founded the
46:06first mosque in Houston. He was the vice
46:09president. The president was an Iranian
46:10student. He was the vice president. He
46:12goes, "We didn't even think sunnish were
46:14too few. We're going to divide amongst
46:16five students. Two are Iranian, one is
46:18Turkish, one is Pakistan. We're going to
46:19divide amongst that. Impossible. So
46:22context plays a role. As organically the
46:26numbers increased. Organically small
46:28tensions began. Organically the Shia
46:31built their own masid. No problem. Live
46:34and let live. No problem. We're not when
46:36the context allows for it. We can move
46:38on. Similarly, other things might happen
46:40as well in this regard. My point is that
46:42don't be so dogmatic. Understand a
46:45person who disagrees with you. By and
46:47large is still a Muslim. Understand for
46:49the sake of the ummah, you must still
46:50unite for the greater good of things.
46:52Follow your instinct and gut in this
46:54regard and follow the elders and those
46:57inshallah that have experienced more
46:59than you. Before we open the floor for
47:01questions, there is an important
47:02announcement that uh sister yada will
47:05make
47:07everybody. So inshallah what I am here
47:09and the lighthouse team on behalf of all
47:11the lighthouse team to talk about today
47:12is the lighthouse luminaries program.
47:15So, alhamdulillah, you guys are all
47:16here. You've been here, some of you
47:18almost every Tuesday. Some of you guys
47:19come in and come out and we really
47:20appreciate it. And we want to emphasize
47:22that you are Lighthouse. The community
47:24of Lighthouse is what makes Lighthouse.
47:26And for that reason, we want to take it
47:28to another level. And we want to start
47:29something called the Luminaries program.
47:32And what that is is that it's an
47:33academic program where you still come in
47:35every Tuesday. Nothing like a different
47:38class or a different location. It's just
47:39where you are. But the difference is is
47:41that you can register and become a
47:43student. And when that happens, then we
47:44take your attendance every Tuesday and
47:46then you join a Google classroom and you
47:49get assignments bi-weekly. Now, that
47:51sounds like the tough part of it, but
47:53the perks of that is that you get a
47:54certificate of achievement in topics of
47:56modernity. So, there's an option to
47:58register every semester. Every semester
48:00you can re-register and then you get
48:02exclusive Q&A opportunities with Dr.
48:05Kaldi. You get a free tote bag and a
48:08notebook with Lighthouse Luminaries
48:10brand. you get um a one-day retreat
48:13potentially depending on YQ schedule, a
48:14one-day retreat where we can further
48:16discuss and critically engage with the
48:18topics that are mentioned in class. And
48:19we really really encourage everybody
48:21that is maybe more academically inclined
48:23or maybe likes to take more notes, maybe
48:25wants to more critically engage with
48:26what we talk about here today to join
48:28this program. Um and if you have any
48:30questions, I really want to ask very
48:32quickly if Etina, she is our sisters
48:34luminaries lead, if you can just stand
48:35up so the sisters can come to you for
48:37questions. Do you know Mustafa
48:38Lighthouse? Um okay. Okay, he's right
48:40there in the back. You can reach out to
48:42him for questions if you can also reach
48:44out to Etina for questions and they
48:45would uh love to help you out. So,
48:48>> so to add to that um the request came
48:50from many of you um that you want more
48:53time and more reading material or more
48:56Q&A and stuff. So, what we decided to do
48:59um the idea was uh from you not from me
49:01from the mah the board what they decided
49:04to do which I'm totally happy and fine
49:06to do. I'm humbled and honored is that a
49:09group of you will inshallah then be
49:13given very basic quizzes after we finish
49:15a module. So for example, sectarianism,
49:18there will just be a you know Q&A,
49:20multiple choice essays, whatever. Every
49:22time we finish a module, very basic uh
49:25assessment being done. You might have
49:27some extra reading, but the main point
49:29is the course here and you finish that
49:30up uh and just remain with the program
49:33inshallah. And uh that will allow you
49:35basically to be on a WhatsApp group uh
49:37you're going to get um every time I'm
49:40able to which Allah often but still the
49:44goal is every maybe 6 weeks or every two
49:46months uh special maybe dinner or Q&A uh
49:50once every six months or so the goal is
49:53maybe to have a retreat somewhere an
49:54hour from Dallas like a full day where
49:56we do a deeper dive or a course mini
49:59course you know with uh you know time
50:01for uh intellectual discussion and maybe
50:03some funny games as well. So yeah, the
50:05goal is basically to have a bit of a
50:07more rigorous training than just a
50:09Tuesday afternoon. That's the goal. So
50:11this is the luminaries program. So if
50:13you're interested, there is the uh
50:15barcode. You can just fill out a form
50:17and uh inshallah it will be accepted. Um
50:20the other uh announcement,
50:23very important announcement, very
50:24exciting announcement.
50:26One of the biggest questions that I
50:29believe is unsolved
50:32when it comes to religion and science is
50:35the question of evolution.
50:39My analysis, I'm not a biologist,
50:42is that there are still unanswered
50:44questions with the Quranic story and
50:48with what we know of biology and the
50:52theory of evolution.
50:54very very very few people are qualified
50:58to discuss this at an academic level.
51:01Alhamdulillah next Tuesday one of the I
51:05would say premier experts in this field
51:08has agreed to come to lighthouse.
51:12He has a PhD in evolutionary biology
51:16and two posttocks in evolutionary
51:19biology and he's published papers in
51:22this field and he is also alhamdulillah
51:24a believing Muslim who has spent his
51:26whole life trying to reconcile or whatn
51:28not to to understand what we can do
51:30about the Quranic story and about the
51:32theory of evolution. Uh the problem
51:35comes this is a very convoluted topic.
51:37It's a very lengthy topic. He's written
51:40multiple papers on it. we only have one
51:42session. So what I've told him to do is
51:44that between and he will have a a brief
51:48overview of some of the main theories he
51:50has of how to reconcile and then after
51:53Isha open Q&A for as long as you guys
51:55want is volunteered. He's coming from
51:57another city just for you guys. Uh so
51:59he's going to just come out after Isha.
52:01So, we especially want those of you with
52:05biology backgrounds, premed backgrounds,
52:08those of you. So, we need you to spread
52:10the word and, you know, make sure a new
52:12batch comes next week because it's a
52:13one-off only. He's flying in just for
52:15this class, okay? We'll have the flyer
52:17out. Um, and uh um his name and
52:20everything will be on there. Inshallah,
52:22he will be coming next Tuesday. Uh so,
52:24we need you to come, especially those of
52:26you, as I said, that have an
52:27understanding in this field and who have
52:28unanswered questions. Whatever question
52:30you ask him, I can assure you he's
52:31already thought about it because that is
52:33his field. Evolutionary biology,
52:35literally that's his field. So,
52:36alhamdulillah, that's going to be next
52:38Tuesday uh introductory lecture between
52:41and after is open Q&A for advanced
52:44students inshallah. And with that, we
52:45have a solid 15 minutes of Q&A,
52:47mashallah. So, alhamdulillah, let us go.
52:52I try my best to do the ones upvoted.
52:54The biggest sectarian divide in the
52:56subcontinental Muslim world is based on
52:59a pure hypothetical of a hypothetical
53:01with nothing practical about it. Can
53:03Allah create another prophet Muhammad
53:05wasallam? How are such useless debates
53:08taken seriously by those that claim to
53:09be inheritors of the prophet to the
53:11point they make of another? Why do
53:13scholars take this seriously if this is
53:15the bulk of their history? So I didn't
53:18want to get into too many examples, but
53:20this hits the nail on the head. The
53:23Berelvies and the Debandis
53:25represent the two largest groups in
53:28India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, the
53:30Indian desi subcontinent. The berelves
53:33and the dubandis dominate 95% or 90% of
53:37the um 90 maybe 85%. Okay, large amount,
53:42no exaggeration. The ali hadith are less
53:44than 5%, very small. And this the the
53:48sh are probably 10 15%. So maybe 80 85%
53:51are basically this division between bis
53:54and the obundis and do you know what the
53:56difference of opinion is many but this
53:59is the main one
54:01hypothetically
54:03can Allah create
54:06could Allah have created in the past
54:10a prophet
54:12who was equal to or even better than the
54:15prophet sallallahu alaihi wasallam
54:18hypothetical question
54:20and the say to say this is because the
54:24prophet is the best of all. So to say
54:28that another being could have possibly
54:30theoretically hypothetically been
54:32created is
54:35and you are
54:38and that the say to limit the power of
54:40Allah is and Allah can do as he pleases.
54:43He won't do that because the prophet is
54:45the best. But could he have done it?
54:47Yes, he could have done it. And to say
54:48he couldn't is to limit the power of
54:50Allah. And so they say this is in its
54:53own way a type of kufur because you
54:55cannot limit the power of Allah. Right?
54:57Can you believe this is one of the
55:01fundamental differences between the two
55:04largest strands of this Muslims because
55:06of which they make of one another. They
55:09say the and you will find this online
55:11and while Gaza was happening last year
55:16in England in should I even say the
55:19city's name but anyway okay not London
55:22some Sharif city close by they actually
55:25had in the proper street British accents
55:28two groups of clerics debate and make
55:31tak of one another in their massages in
55:34England over this issue and it was
55:37uploaded onto YouTube and it had
55:40hundreds of thousands of views or tens
55:42of thousands of views. Each one of which
55:45is dressed the same. They they see a
55:47background Indian Pakistani subcontinent
55:49background. Okay. Both of them eat
55:51biryani and halvauri at breakfast
55:53whatever right? No the irony of irony is
55:55their ash that their hanfi and the
55:59amount of hatred they had for one
56:00another because of this hypothetical
56:02issue.
56:06This is what frustrates me.
56:08It frustrates me to the point of I don't
56:10even have words for it. It's just it's
56:12just it is what it is. Right? Multiple
56:15issues at play here.
56:18One of them being
56:21and this is it needs to be said. The
56:24educational levels of the peoples
56:27involved here.
56:29Generally speaking, the less one has
56:32read, the more isolated one has lived
56:34one's life, the less educated one is,
56:36the more prone one is to these
56:38narrow-minded sectarian issues. So, I
56:41want to educate you. And that's why, by
56:43the way, in America generally,
56:44sectarianism is not as much as in many
56:47other places in the world because by and
56:49large, the average person with two-digit
56:51IQ understands even if you disagree
56:54should be put in the neutral category.
56:56Okay, it's a hypothetical issue. We both
56:59love Allahawa as the only god. We both
57:01acknowledge this the irony not just we
57:03both every Muslim acknowledges the
57:05prophetam is the greatest of all human
57:07beings. We all acknowledge this. So
57:09what's the point of anger and hatred?
57:11It's a complete hypothetical that has no
57:14substantive reality to it. But again, it
57:19shows you how
57:23I I I can't help use a harsh word here,
57:25but how foolish sectarianism is that two
57:29people, two massid are going to make. It
57:32wasn't just you're wrong. Your
57:35children will not inherit from you. We
57:37cannot pray behind you. If you slaughter
57:39a chicken, your chicken and the biryani
57:41is not halal for us to eat. And they're
57:43saying this in their brahmy accents to
57:46each other, right? They're literally and
57:48it's just like what are you living? But
57:50again, it is what it is. This is, you
57:53know, it is what it is. Listen, you just
57:55don't go down to that level and
57:57understand inshallah you will always
57:59find people of a more open-minded and
58:02more well read. Let these people be you.
58:05You can you can only do so much in this
58:07regard. But this is my problem. Exactly.
58:09Now I would say the bulk of our
58:11differences really are theoretical with
58:13with with utmost respect even theat
58:16controversy. What what is the result of
58:19it? Even the Sunni I I was talking with
58:23somebody that came to my office. He was
58:24talking about these issues. Okay. Who
58:27should have been the first Khalifa? I
58:28said to this brother, you know what? If
58:30you believe that happened 1,400 years
58:33ago, there's something called
58:36and Allah will take the volume and deal
58:38with the volume on
58:41why do you and I have to fight over
58:42something that happened 1,400 years ago.
58:44I l said to the brother, why do you and
58:46I have to have an issue? You just live
58:48your life and let Allah judge on the day
58:50of judgment. If you really feel this way
58:52and I live my life and expect Allah will
58:54also judge on the day of judgment,
58:55right? Why do I have to resurrect what
58:56happened and carry it in my heart and
58:58pass it down to my children? What do we
59:00benefit? what happened happen okay if
59:03you feel so strongly Allah will judge
59:06don't you agree he is he is
59:10so yes a lot of our differences really
59:13are theoretical in this regard so and
59:15yeah I I agree with you what can we do
59:17in this educate and keep on and believe
59:21me the silent majority understands it's
59:24the vocal minority that clouds the
59:26silent majority right don't be fooled by
59:30this reality Okay, question here. To
59:33what extent do you think the tension
59:34between the more liberal and traditional
59:36interpretations of Islam is healthy? At
59:38what point does it become harmful? From
59:41an outsers's perspective, wouldn't these
59:43constant internal disputes undermine the
59:45credibility of Muslims? Especially with
59:47the social media wars and for ordinary
59:49Muslims looking for guidance, how are
59:50they supposed to navigate these
59:52competing ideas? Yes. Uh I I understand
59:55this point. Our modern sectarian issue
59:59is not over sunnish for most of us in
1:00:01this hall for most of you living online
1:00:03even our modern sectarian issues are
1:00:06over hijab gender music the spectrum of
1:00:11that's what it's over
1:00:14and may Allah help you navigate this
1:00:16again my goal is not to indoctrinate you
1:00:18my goal is to teach you guidelines to
1:00:19help you and yes you will have to face
1:00:22and decide which version of Islam you're
1:00:24going to follow
1:00:26I
1:00:28maintain what I've been teaching you for
1:00:30the last years and that is to disagree
1:00:33with civility. Even if you disagree
1:00:35strongly, there's no need to be crude or
1:00:38nasty. Even if you disagree with
1:00:41somebody fundamentally, but they are
1:00:44also acting in a civil manner, you can
1:00:46also return the civility. You don't have
1:00:48to, you know, become nasty or or take
1:00:51the tension beyond what it needs to be.
1:00:54I do not sympathize with those that want
1:00:56to destroy the classical tradition in
1:00:58its entirety. I believe that is very
1:01:00dangerous to Islam
1:01:03and I will tell you that is dangerous.
1:01:06But there's a way to do so without
1:01:07fermenting hatred. I know many of them
1:01:11are sincere. I know because I interacted
1:01:13with them. I know them. I know many of
1:01:15them believe this is what Islam should
1:01:17be like. I'm not doubting their
1:01:19sincerity. I just think it's not going
1:01:21to be healthy for the future. So, in the
1:01:23end of the day, it's a battle of ideas.
1:01:26You guys, you guys are the ones that are
1:01:28going to have to decide. You're the
1:01:29judges, not me. Cuz I've already judged
1:01:31what I think is right. I'm presenting my
1:01:33opinion. You're going to hear other
1:01:35opinions. You guys are the judges. I
1:01:37feel empathy for you cuz it's a tough
1:01:39decision to make. But I'm not going to
1:01:41make my argument stronger by being nasty
1:01:44about the other guy. I'm not going to
1:01:46prove my point by using vulgar
1:01:48adjectives about the other group. That's
1:01:50not how I solidify. And if that's what
1:01:52you want, then frankly, you don't know
1:01:53how to judge between arguments. I need
1:01:55to prove to you why my point is stronger
1:01:58academically, intellectually,
1:01:59Islamically.
1:02:01If I cannot do that, and I can only
1:02:03resort to ad homonyms, I can only resort
1:02:06to vulgarities. I can only resort to
1:02:08raising my voices and accusing them,
1:02:10then yes, some people will like that.
1:02:13But those people weren't even waiting
1:02:14for the evidences. They already made up
1:02:16their minds anyway. So I agree with you
1:02:19that it's not healthy to exacerbate.
1:02:22So let us as I said understand we are
1:02:27talking about a battle of ideas. May the
1:02:30strongest argument win.
1:02:33Therefore we better make sure our
1:02:35arguments are the best. Our evidences
1:02:39are the strongest. Our mechanisms of
1:02:41presenting are the best. I agree with
1:02:44you. This is a problem. There's no need
1:02:46to exacerbate. let us present our views
1:02:48and in the end you will all have to
1:02:50decide uh you know what which quote
1:02:51unquote understanding or version of
1:02:53Islam uh and again I mean there are
1:02:56strands there are shades not all
1:02:58fundamentalists are the same not all
1:02:59moderates are the same not all
1:03:00progressives are the same there's many
1:03:02shades and you know where one ends the
1:03:04others just beginning there's a
1:03:05continuum and there's an overlap closer
1:03:08you are to segments of the continuum the
1:03:11more you can interact with them question
1:03:13here why are the Muslims imitating
1:03:15Christians by debating over abstract
1:03:17theological issues. Didn't the same
1:03:18thing lead them to sectarian wars which
1:03:20led them to secularism which caused the
1:03:22state of Christianity today to
1:03:24sectarian-minded Muslims want Islam and
1:03:26Muslims to be weakened as well. So one
1:03:28of my thesis that I mentioned in my PhD
1:03:31and others is the following.
1:03:34Many of our theological controversies of
1:03:37the past emanated from intrachristian
1:03:41debates and they were taken and absorbed
1:03:44in the first and second centuries of
1:03:46Islam and they were Islamicized
1:03:49and I've proven this in my PhD and this
1:03:51is what one of the main causes of me
1:03:52personally becoming more mature once I
1:03:55understood the origin of the whole
1:03:57divine attributes controversy. It
1:03:59originated when Christians were
1:04:01disputing the nature of Jesus versus the
1:04:03nature of God. They were disputing does
1:04:06Jesus have different characteristics
1:04:07than God? Is Jesus this the word? Is the
1:04:10word created? Is the word the creator?
1:04:12Is the logos created? Logos uncreated.
1:04:13All of this comes is the Quran created
1:04:15uncreated. All of this absorbs in. We
1:04:18don't have the logos. We have the Quran.
1:04:20So the whole controversy is the Quran
1:04:21created uncreated. It comes from a
1:04:23Christian Byzantine controversy of
1:04:25whether the logos is created or
1:04:26uncreated. Is the logos creating or is
1:04:29the logos the creator or is the logos
1:04:30created? This is a Byzantine Christian
1:04:33controversy. 6th century CE and Muslims
1:04:36conquer the Byzantine lands. Muslims
1:04:39hear this. Muslims absorb this debate
1:04:42and then they back projected onto their
1:04:43religion. The wholehat controversy is
1:04:47over Jesus and God. Are they one nature?
1:04:48Is there a human element? Are they one?
1:04:50That's all of Christianity is over
1:04:52sectarian issues, right? Muslims absorb
1:04:54this. Oh, so what does it mean? God has
1:04:56a hand. Is the hand a part of God? Is
1:04:58the hand separate? Is the hand this?
1:04:59What does it mean? Allah has knowledge
1:05:00and all all of the same language. If you
1:05:02read my PhD, if you listen to my library
1:05:04chats, literally the same language used
1:05:07by Byzantine Christian theologians was
1:05:10adopted by early Muslim groups on this
1:05:12side, early Muslim groups on that side.
1:05:14I quoted it in my PhD. I literally
1:05:17quoted Byzantine theologians and then
1:05:19Mortzilla Byzantine theologians and then
1:05:21the proto other groups there. Basically,
1:05:23you can see the whole spectrum here,
1:05:25right? Once you understand the origins
1:05:27of this controversy are foreign and it
1:05:30was Islamicized, then you got to ask
1:05:33yourself, was it really worth it? Did we
1:05:35really have to fight over these abstract
1:05:37issues, the nature of God? Who amongst
1:05:40you has ever thought to a point of it
1:05:41bringing doubt about how do you
1:05:43understand theat of God? It's a bygone
1:05:45controversy. Let it be. No need to
1:05:47resurrect it. But yet as I explained to
1:05:50you, this is the main controversy still
1:05:52happening online between the da bros,
1:05:54between the sectarian groups here. So,
1:05:56and where does it originate from? It
1:05:58originates from Christianity. So, yes,
1:06:00the more you learn, the more humble and
1:06:03open-minded you become. Uh, let's do our
1:06:05final question here. I've heard that
1:06:07Wahhabism is a plot by the Zionist
1:06:09entities to disenite the ummah and it
1:06:11has infiltrated into this government and
1:06:13that. No, that's not true. Be academic.
1:06:16uh as a person who subscribed to that
1:06:18movement, who taught it, who preached
1:06:19it, who absorbed, who believed in it,
1:06:21and who has studied it and written an
1:06:22academic book about it. Uh that movement
1:06:25has a lot of good. It prioritizes the
1:06:28tradition more than others. It respects
1:06:31the classical training of Islam. It has
1:06:33roots in early Islam. Uh and it is not a
1:06:36plot by the Zionists, not at all. It is
1:06:38a movement that was uh taken by a
1:06:41political entity. And they have their
1:06:43reasons to do it. And uh the scholars of
1:06:46that movement are sincere. They believe
1:06:47in it. They make a lot of sense in some
1:06:49ways and in some areas they can improve.
1:06:52I don't view them as being enemies of
1:06:54Allah. They're not evil people. They are
1:06:58a mainstream strand of Islam. They go
1:07:00back to the earliest of Islam. They have
1:07:02major icons like me personally. I say
1:07:05that Abdwahab and Ibia are not the same.
1:07:08Abdwahab invented ideas did not have and
1:07:12he extrapolated things he did not have.
1:07:14That's my opinion. The followers say
1:07:15nobradab followed Ibia 100%. But in the
1:07:19end they are mainstream Sunnis. They are
1:07:21within Sunnis and they have views that
1:07:23might potentially be harmful that can be
1:07:25toned down. But all movements Sufi all
1:07:29of them have views that can be harmful.
1:07:31The goal is to maximize the benefit
1:07:33minimize the harm. Remember next Tuesday
1:07:36inshallah is by evolutionary biology.
1:07:38Spread the word and inshallah we'll see
1:07:40you then.

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