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When Ignoring Tantrums Goes Too Far — Transcript

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0:00Remember these tantrums are not based on
0:01big feelings and big emotions. They're
0:03just mad cuz they're not in charge.
0:05>> I will say there's a lot of different
0:06approaches to tantrums online. This
0:09feels possibly quite intense for some
0:12parents.
0:13>> I think it's a lack of understanding of
0:15what tantrums are all about. Because if
0:17you it looks it looks fabulous. It looks
0:19like this is just the end of the world,
0:21but it isn't.
0:22>> I tried to distract him and that doesn't
0:24work. Should I ignore his tantrums in
0:25public, too, or address them?
0:27>> 1% is ignoring, 99.999999%
0:31is connecting, okay? You've got to look
0:32for those opportunities to connect.
0:34>> Welcome to the BratBusters Parenting
0:35Podcast. My name's Lisa Bunnage. I'm a
0:38parenting coach, a mom, and also a
0:39grandmother.
0:40>> [music]
0:40>> And I'm Amy Bunnage, Lisa's daughter,
0:42and I handle the marketing and planning
0:44here at BratBusters. While I don't have
0:46kids, each episode will dive into
0:48parenting topics and Lisa will answer
0:49your questions. Let's get started.
0:52>> Okay, sugar lump, what is today's topic?
0:55>> Today's topic is when ignoring tantrums
0:58goes too far.
1:00>> When ignor- oh, very good topic. Cuz I
1:02always say you ignore tantrums, but
1:03there's a very specific way of doing it.
1:05Very good. I like this one.
1:07>> Because I think that you get a lot of
1:08questions online on your social media
1:10and you just don't always have the time
1:12to answer them all, but I thought a
1:14long-form content like a podcast would
1:17be a good place to discuss this.
1:18>> Yeah, and it it deserves discussing
1:20because I can understand why people
1:22would misinterpret that because like me,
1:24we don't always listen to the whole
1:25video all the way through. We might just
1:27look at part of it or just maybe watch
1:28one video that didn't that wasn't really
1:30that long and didn't explain it all. But
1:32yeah, there is a very specific way of
1:34ignoring tantrums.
1:36>> Okay, would you like to go into your
1:37approach for tantrums?
1:39>> Into the very specific way of dealing
1:40with tantrums.
1:40[snorts and clears throat] Okay. So, you
1:42do ignore a tantrum. Now, a and I want
1:44to first say that a tantrum is not based
1:45on huge feelings and huge emotions. They
1:47don't feel unloved when they're
1:49screaming when they're having a tantrum.
1:50It's not like that. They're just it's a
1:52loss of emotional control at not getting
1:55their own way. It's based on anger at
1:57things not going their way. I'm assuming
1:59you've already said no to something that
2:01they couldn't have. Let's say you took
2:02the remote control away. Now they are
2:04mad that you took that remote control
2:06away. So they're having a massive
2:07tantrum, okay? So what you do is you you
2:09look away, but you want to be nearby and
2:12you completely ignore them unless
2:13they're hitting themselves, someone
2:14else, or damaging property. Then you
2:16physically restrain them, okay? But
2:18you're not hurting them, you're just
2:19preventing any damage to themselves or
2:21someone else or property. And then you
2:23still don't look at them or talk to
2:24them. And you just want to look like you
2:26know they're having a tantrum cuz you're
2:28right there. So but you're not reacting
2:31to it. You're completely looking like
2:32you couldn't care less. Like you're just
2:34waiting for a bus. So nonchalant, throw
2:36in a few yawns, whatever. Look away.
2:39This will, if you haven't done this in
2:41the past and this is new, they're going
2:43to get worse because they're going to
2:44think, "Well, wait a minute. I was in
2:45control of you yesterday when I had a
2:47tantrum. Now I'm not. So I'm just going
2:49to up it." So they usually will get
2:50worse before they get better cuz they're
2:52used to being in control of you. And now
2:54all of a sudden you're you're in control
2:55of yourself, right? You're not going to
2:56react to that. I say when they're on the
2:58low road, which is a tantrum, it's not
3:00bad behavior, it's just a loss of
3:01emotional control, right? So when
3:03they're on the low road, you stay on the
3:04high road. And what you're going to do
3:05is you're going to invite them there,
3:07but you're going to time it
3:08appropriately. So you're stay you're
3:10just nearby while they're having a
3:11tantrum. As soon as they're done, and
3:13you don't go on your phone, don't talk
3:15to someone when you're when they're
3:16having a tantrum. Like don't get into a
3:18conversation. You can sort of quick
3:20chat, but not no conversations. So as
3:22soon as they're done, you look at them.
3:24Now you're going to invite them up to
3:26the high road. You're going to look
3:27right at them and say, "Oh, y'all done?
3:29Do you want to go read a book?" Like in
3:31other words, do you want to come join
3:32me? Now you're rewarding them with with
3:34um attention, okay? You don't have to do
3:36anything exciting. You don't You don't
3:37even have to read a book with them. You
3:38say, "Oh, y'all done? You want to come
3:40help me do the laundry or whatever." In
3:42other words, do you want to Do you want
3:43to spend time with me now? Do you want
3:44to be with me now? So So what you're
3:46doing is you're ignoring the crazy and
3:48then you're rewarding the calm. If they
3:50start up again, just go, "Whoops." And
3:51then ignore again. Now, a lot of parents
3:54say, "But what if they say nobody loves
3:56me? I need a hug." That's not love
3:57they're after, that's control and
3:58manipulation. They're trying to drag you
4:00down to the low road. Do not get dragged
4:02down there. Remember, these tantrums are
4:04not based on big feelings and big
4:06emotions, they're just mad cuz they're
4:08not in charge. That's all it is.
4:11>> Now, I feel like there's a lot that we
4:12can unpack there.
4:14Uh first, just because it's so top of
4:16mind cuz you just said it, it's the hug
4:18comment. I see online especially
4:20a lot of people feel like you should
4:22never withhold a hug.
4:23>> Yeah, but that's not a love hug, that's
4:24a control hug. They're They're going to
4:26say anything to pull you in because they
4:28know you've never said no to a hug
4:29before. They'll do it at bedtime, too,
4:31if they don't want to go to bed. "I need
4:33a hug." No, they It's not love they're
4:35after. That is not a love hug. You got
4:37to discern between the two. One is
4:39manipulation and control, that's what
4:41this is when they're during a tantrum,
4:42and then when they're you're just
4:43sitting beside them or you're just
4:45walking around and everything's going
4:46great. "I need a hug." Of course you're
4:47going to hug them, but not during a
4:49tantrum because that is all about
4:51control. They're trying to drag you down
4:53to that low road. You stay on the high
4:54road. Wait till they're finished, and
4:56then you invite them up to the high
4:57road. Remember, you want to stay there.
4:59Do not get dragged down to the low road
5:01because once you go down there, that
5:02ladder is kicked out, you can't get back
5:04up to the high road for the rest of that
5:05day. They're They'll remember that.
5:07>> When you say the low road, what do you
5:09specifically mean like that?
5:10>> When they're acting crazy, stuff that
5:12you don't want When they're just acting
5:13out, basically. When they're acting
5:15against the grain, something that like
5:17let's say they're
5:18um they're having a fit, their
5:20tantruming is an obvious one, or if
5:22they're naughty, um it's it's usually
5:24almost always when they're um
5:26being rude to you, like just even if
5:27they're not having a tantrum, they say,
5:28"I hate you. You're a lousy parent,"
5:30whatever. When they get real snotty like
5:32that, that's the low road, okay? It's
5:34all about control. It's usually based on
5:36anger. That's the low road.
5:38>> Yeah, but I'm having a hard time
5:39discerning the idea of
5:41like when I think going down to the low
5:43road, I would think the adult throwing a
5:45tantrum. I wouldn't think just
5:47discussing or talking with them.
5:49>> Well, you're in it with them though. All
5:51of a sudden you've just joined them.
5:52They're on the low road. Now you've
5:53joined them. You're with them. They've
5:55controlled you. They've pulled you into
5:57that zone. I'm very I believe in like
5:59energy. I know I'm not really that
6:00frou-frou about it, but I'm in that the
6:03high road is the positive energy. The
6:04low road is the negative energy. I'm
6:06going to invite them up to the positive,
6:08okay? They're in the negative zone. I do
6:10not want to be dragged into it. As soon
6:11as they've pulled me in with a hug or
6:13with talking about it or picking them up
6:16or looking at them, all of a sudden now
6:18I'm in that negative zone with them.
6:20They have controlled me.
6:22>> And this is specifically I don't think
6:23you mentioned the idea of needs versus
6:25wants.
6:25>> Well, this is a tantrum where they've
6:27got like the I I use the example if they
6:29have the remote and they shouldn't have
6:30it. It's when you've taken charge and
6:32you've done the right thing. Okay,
6:34they're not having a tantrum because
6:35they're sick or hungry. That's
6:36different. Then you feed them and look
6:38after them. But this is just cuz they're
6:39mad cuz they didn't get their own way
6:41over something they shouldn't have got
6:42their own way over, okay?
6:43>> And then I think because if I'm hearing
6:46this for the first time and I will say
6:47there is a lot of different approaches
6:49to tantrums online, this feels
6:53possibly quite
6:56uh intense for some parents. I'm trying
6:58to think of like the phrasing, but this
7:00could feel like a pretty intense way to
7:02handle them.
7:03>> Mhm.
7:04I think it's a lack of understanding of
7:06what tantrums are all about. Because if
7:08you it looks it looks fabulous. It looks
7:10like this is just the end of the world,
7:12but it isn't. It's usually done by
7:14younger children, right? And they are
7:17coming out of they're they're coming out
7:19of babyhood and they're going into
7:21kidhood, right? Usually. Their
7:23vocabulary is not their first form of
7:25communication. They can't communicate
7:27things other than just freaking out,
7:29okay? So, their freak out is nowhere
7:32near like a newborn. They they cry and
7:34scream and they turn red. It looks
7:36horrendous, but it's not. They're just
7:38communicating a want or a need, right?
7:40Usually with babies it's a need. Um but
7:42with toddlers it's more it's more around
7:44the wants usually, okay? So, yeah, it's
7:46not as dramatic as it looks. It's
7:49wonderful theater, but it's not as
7:51dramatic as if we were to act like that,
7:53it would be the end of the world, okay?
7:55Unless you're a full-grown toddler, but
7:57you get the idea. That is how they
7:58communicate that they're mad. It's all
8:00they've got because their verbal skills
8:03are not as advanced yet. So, they still
8:05resort back to this physical stuff, the
8:07drama, the screaming, the crying. Cuz
8:09that's all they had when they were
8:10babies. So, they're just coming out of
8:12that. And then you look at how quick
8:13they recover sometimes, too, you know?
8:15They don't always, but still, they get
8:17themselves so wound up. It's not based
8:19on on big emotions and big feelings,
8:21though, not in the way you think of it.
8:23It's based on a lot of anger and
8:24frustration and not getting what they
8:26want, not being able to control the
8:28situation, not having the remote
8:30control. When you turn off the TV, they
8:32have a fit. When you have to leave the
8:34playground, they'll have a fit. That
8:35kind of stuff. They just don't they they
8:38want what they want when they want and
8:40how they want it. And that's how they
8:41communicate it. Now, they get worse and
8:43worse if you keep feeding it. If you
8:45give in ever to a tantrum, um they'll
8:48get worse. Or if you talk to them during
8:50a tantrum, they'll get worse. This is
8:52the way you want to You want to quickly
8:54get help them to outgrow them. And this
8:56is the quickest way to do it.
8:57>> I know a lot of
8:59people online uh discuss the idea that
9:01tantrums are usually just from an unmet
9:03need.
9:04>> That's crap.
9:05>> [laughter]
9:05>> Absolute crap. Some of them are for
9:08needs, but we're talking about the ones
9:10that are just cuz I want that iPad and I
9:12want it now. That kind of thing, the
9:14wants is what we're talking about here.
9:15But that's ridiculous. Most tantrums are
9:17not based on needs when you think about
9:19it. Most cuz we're usually meeting their
9:20needs. We're feeding them, we're looking
9:22after them when they're sick, we're
9:23putting them to bed when they're tired.
9:24We're usually pretty good at meeting
9:26their needs. Most tantrums are based on
9:28they don't want to leave the park.
9:30That's not a need. They don't need to
9:31stay at the park. Um they threw
9:34something across the room and then they
9:35got mad when you took put that thing
9:37away. They don't need that toy that they
9:39just threw across the room. Most
9:40tantrums are based on wants, not needs.
9:43>> And how are you telling the difference
9:45cuz I know that you talk about the fact
9:46that they're angry in those moments. How
9:49do you know that the child isn't upset
9:51or hurt? Like why do you specifically
9:53say anger?
9:55>> Um well, usually parents know like what
9:57what started it. Leaving the park
10:00doesn't mean that they're traumatized,
10:01right? You see where I'm It's what
10:03started it. That's how you can tell. Did
10:05you take the remote control away from
10:07them? Did you Were they Did they grab
10:08your phone and they're not supposed to
10:09have it and you took that away? Then you
10:12know it's over a want. It's how it
10:13started is how you know. You can usually
10:15Most parents would know. Um yeah, but if
10:17they they don't usually tantrum without
10:19you knowing what happened.
10:21>> No, I'm not saying you don't know what
10:22happened. I'm saying how do you know
10:23that they're not upset rather than
10:25angry?
10:25>> that they're mad.
10:27Well, okay. It's still based on them not
10:29getting their own way, okay? They they
10:31might be sad and upset about it, but
10:33it's not something that you need to
10:34feed, okay? Like um maybe we're upset
10:38that we have to that we can't speed down
10:40the freeway. We might be upset about
10:41that, but we don't need to speed down
10:43the freeway. You see, it's kind of like
10:45that. We don't We We can still be upset
10:48about something, but it doesn't justify
10:50that we that we should have it.
10:52So, it's okay if they're upset even.
10:54That's okay, but after it's done, now
10:56you're connecting. They will learn when
10:59I act like a fool, I get no attention
11:00whatsoever. But as soon as I calm down
11:02and act nicely, then I'll get attention.
11:04>> I know I'm throwing a lot at you right
11:06now.
11:06>> that. And it's frustrating because when
11:08I first came on Tik Tok especially where
11:09I really started on social media a few
11:11years ago, um people argued with me
11:13right, left, and center. Now, how much
11:15do I like that?
11:16>> Oh, boy.
11:17>> I feed off it. I absolutely feed off it.
11:19I don't get that as much anymore uh cuz
11:21I guess I've been talking about it more
11:23often or maybe those people that hated
11:25me or they're all gone now. So
11:26>> also say you just don't read your your
11:28social media comments either?
11:30>> No, but I know what people say. And I
11:32see it the lives, you know, people used
11:34to argue with me all the time. I don't
11:35even get that anymore. So, not as much.
11:37It's very rare now. So, but I love that
11:39because that's how we learn, too. And
11:40those are the people I really want to
11:42get to. Is if you think that that
11:43tantrum needs needs needs
11:46consoling and hugging and all that,
11:48you're wrong, okay? Unless it's over a
11:50need. They need to learn how to process
11:52their how to self-regulate themselves.
11:54And the way you're teaching them how to
11:56do that is by completely staying calm
11:58and not giving it any attention. You are
12:00literally teaching them through osmosis,
12:03you're teaching them how to
12:04self-regulate. That's the best way to do
12:06it. Cuz children lean into what works
12:09and they lean away from what doesn't.
12:10You talking to them about it, I've had
12:12so many parents who've said to me, "You
12:14won't believe this, Lisa." This
12:16two-year-old, let's say. "He hit me. He
12:18hit me right across the face. And I had
12:20a big talk with him. And I said, 'Look,
12:22that really hurt, Mommy. And you don't
12:24want to hurt, Mommy, cuz you love,
12:25Mommy.' And then he'll say, 'Yeah, I
12:27love you, Mommy.' And then you'll say
12:28and then he said, 'I'm sorry, Mommy.'
12:31And then she'll say and I said, 'Don't
12:33Don't do it again.' He says, 'I promise
12:35I won't do it again.' And then the I
12:36know exactly what's coming. The parent
12:38will say to me, "And then he hit me
12:40again. Can you believe it?" And I said,
12:41"I can't believe you wouldn't." You just
12:43basically fed him. You basically gave
12:45him all that attention around what he
12:46just did. That's not how you address
12:48this stuff. It's not these many therapy
12:50sessions discussing all the big feelings
12:52and big emotions. It's absolute crap.
12:54It's garbage. It doesn't work. It's
12:55ridiculous. You're feeding it. You're
12:57feeding all the negativity. It's the
12:59quick actions with toddlers and three
13:01and above, it's still actions and that
13:03you're ignoring a tantrum or it's
13:04consequences if they've done if they've
13:06done something naughty. It's not these
13:08big discussions around bad behavior. I
13:10know parents want to do it. I know it's
13:11trending out there from what I hear that
13:13all these big discussions over feelings.
13:15It's fine to discuss their feelings, but
13:17not when they're acting out. That is not
13:19the time to discuss them. Afterwards, I
13:21still don't discuss bad behavior, but I
13:24do discuss their feelings. But when they
13:25can discuss them in a nicer way, then we
13:28will discuss them. Here's the thing
13:29though, once you're a really good calm
13:31leader, they calm down enough that they
13:33don't have all those big feelings and
13:34big emotions and big anger. It just goes
13:36away because all of a sudden they're
13:38self-regulated. And this is what does
13:40it. Your leadership is what
13:41self-regulates them. I've worked with
13:43tons of teenagers and kids, all sorts of
13:45kids with lots of behavioral issues. My
13:47leadership is what calmed them down, is
13:49what gave them more confidence, higher
13:51self-esteem, more they were more
13:53self-regulated because I didn't react to
13:56the crazy stuff and I rewarded the good
13:58stuff.
14:01Now, now wait a minute. I want to get
14:03back to this cuz I said I rewarded the
14:04good stuff. I don't mean I don't give
14:06rewards for good behavior, but what I
14:07mean is they got my attention when they
14:09were good, not when they were not good.
14:11>> But they got consequences for being
14:13naughty, but a tantrum is not bad
14:14behavior. A tantrum is a loss of
14:16emotional control, not getting what they
14:18want. And the reason why I'm asking so
14:19many questions is, well, firstly, you do
14:21get a lot in your social media comments,
14:23but I would say that I'm really trying
14:26to tease out because when you just say
14:27ignore the tantrums, I know that you're
14:30you know, you're just trying to get your
14:31point across, but I want to make sure
14:33that people are understanding your whole
14:35thought process like because you always
14:37say how important connection is with
14:39children. And I also want to say you
14:42also talk about the fact that the longer
14:45you sit in the negative,
14:47is that like with the tantrums like kids
14:49typically I would assume are not feeling
14:50great when they're having a tantrum.
14:52>> lousy. I know how to make kids feel
14:54good. I'm really good at connecting.
14:55That's my strength. Is it not It's not
14:57the correction. The correction is a tiny
14:59part of this. Connection is my strength.
15:01That's what I'm teaching here. And by
15:02ignoring the tantrums and waiting till
15:04they're done and saying, "Oh, you're all
15:05done? You want to go read a book?" Now
15:06we're connecting. They like reading a
15:08book with you. They know they're not
15:09going to get that until they stop this
15:11craziness, right? They learn that really
15:13quickly. Now I I've done this with
15:15teenagers. I've done this with bigger
15:17kids. I've done it with toddlers. It
15:18works with all of them. You go crazy on
15:21me and act out like that and screaming
15:22and hollering, I'm going to be filing my
15:24nails, but the second you're done, you
15:26all done? Okay, do you want to go to the
15:28park or something? And they learn see my
15:30calmness that is what calms them down.
15:33It's my calmness. That's why I keep
15:35using this example, but that 8-year-old
15:37kid I was asked to work with I'd never
15:38met him before and they asked if I'd
15:39work with him. They said he's a real
15:41handful. I had heard about him, but I'd
15:42never met him. So I said, "Hi, I'm
15:44Lisa." He's 8-years-old and he says to
15:46me, "If you don't give me what I want,
15:47I'm going to have a fit." And I just
15:48leaned back in my chair and I said,
15:50"Bring it on." And he never did. I was
15:52hoping he would because their fits,
15:54scenes, meltdowns, and tantrums is my
15:55opportunity to exercise my calm
15:57leadership. By being calm and completely
15:59ignoring that crazy stuff, that is what
16:02calms them down. He never did have a
16:03fit. You could see the relief in his
16:05face. He looked like, "Oh, she knows
16:07what she's doing." He was great with me.
16:09The teacher even came over and said,
16:10"What did you do?" And I said, "Oh, I
16:11just asked him to have a fit." And I
16:13didn't explain it any further. But
16:15anyway, yeah, he just but I'm already
16:16I'm already a leader. I know how to do
16:18this. So he just knew that I knew what I
16:19was doing, right? But I don't go into
16:21the crazy zone. I just don't even
16:22entertain it. I completely ignore it.
16:25>> And I think one last thing just before
16:26we get into the parenting questions is
16:29when you talk about the filing your
16:30nails, but you also talk about the fact
16:33you wouldn't get on a phone, you
16:34wouldn't get on a conversation. Like
16:35what's the difference there?
16:37>> Okay, the big difference is uh that they
16:38know I'm standing there waiting for them
16:40to finish. They need to know that. They
16:42need to know that I'm involved in the
16:44tantrum and that I'm listening for it to
16:46finish.
16:47If I got if I start looking at a phone
16:50or having a conversation with someone, I
16:51think that's rude. They're still going
16:53through something. I'm there with them,
16:55but I'm not looking at them or I'm not
16:56joining them in that, okay? But I'm
16:59nearby waiting and they learn that.
17:00After the first couple of tantrums, they
17:02learn that, okay? So I'm as because the
17:05second they're done, I am very quick.
17:07Oh, you all done? Okay, do you want to
17:09go to the park or do you want to go read
17:11a book or do you want to come help me?
17:12Whatever. Now, when they're in that
17:14tantrum hangover, you know, the hiccup
17:15cries,
17:16>> [laughter]
17:16>> you know, cuz they're coming out of it,
17:17right? That's the I call that the
17:19tantrum hangover. When they're in that
17:20zone, they're still kind of in that
17:22negative zone. So, I'm very careful with
17:24that. They'll often say, "I need a hug."
17:27That is not a love hug. That is a come
17:29on, console me because what I went
17:30through was hell. It's It's No, I still
17:32wouldn't console that because then I'm
17:34giving it energy. I might pat them on
17:36the back, say, "You're all right. Let's
17:38go read a book." And then if we're
17:39sitting reading a book, if they climb in
17:40my lap, that's fine. But it's all part
17:43of the whole They're trying to control
17:45you. They're trying to drag you into
17:46this negativity. I do not go there. I'm
17:49very good at being positive around kids,
17:51and they like that. When I used to work
17:53with kids, they used to and I used to
17:54say, "Well, how come you're so good with
17:55me?" And they said, "We don't want to
17:57lose fun Lisa." I was fun, right? And
17:59with my own kids even, they didn't want
18:00to lose fun mom. I'm really good at
18:02connecting. If you don't If you don't
18:04balance this out like 99% 1% is
18:07ignoring, 99.99999%
18:10is connecting, okay? You've got to look
18:12for those opportunities to connect. A
18:13lot of parents ignore their kids when
18:15they're good, too. I don't tend to do
18:17that. Let's say they're doing
18:18independent play, and I'm busy running
18:20around doing chores. Every time I walk
18:22past them, I will comment on what
18:23they're doing, so that they know I'm
18:25still around. So, parents a lot of times
18:27do ignore their kids when they're good.
18:28So, they don't reward the good. And I
18:30don't reward good behavior, but I I
18:32reward it with my attention. You know
18:33what I mean? Like I'll I'll go up and
18:35say, "Oh, wow, what are you building
18:36there?" So, they always know that I'm
18:38kind of there for them. And that's
18:39really important, too. I want them to
18:41know that I'm really connected, and I
18:43want them to know how important they are
18:44to me. And that was really when I was
18:46working with kids, um that was very
18:48important to them. They said, "You
18:49always seemed interested in us." And
18:51that was A lot of kids said that. "You
18:52always seemed interested in what I was
18:54doing." That's really important. Now,
18:56when someone treats you that well, and
18:58they're really connected with you, and
18:59they show an interest in what you're
19:00interested in or what you're doing, it's
19:02very hard to act out with that person.
19:04It becomes almost embarrassing, okay?
19:06Once you get good at this This is
19:08leadership, right? You're guiding them
19:09into the good zone, into the high road.
19:11And you're inviting them up there. Once
19:13they're there, it's very hard for them
19:15to go back down to the low road. It's
19:16almost embarrassing for them cuz there's
19:18no need to do it anymore cuz all of a
19:20sudden you make them feel good and when
19:21they feel good, they do good. When they
19:23feel bad, they do bad.
19:25And this is why this can't fit in a
19:2760-second social media video. It's hard
19:30to do and I I you know, I love the
19:31kickback stuff. I love it when people
19:33come after me.
19:34Um and I know that when they just see
19:36the videos, that's that's what's going
19:37to happen because I know it's too quick
19:39to explain. But the thing is that when
19:41you get good at this ignoring tantrums
19:42and not giving any attention to this
19:44crazy scene stuff even with older kids.
19:47I do address bad behavior but tantrums
19:49and scenes and saying they hate you,
19:50that is all in the attitude department,
19:52okay? I do not address attitude. I
19:54ignore it. Okay? And then they it
19:56becomes embarrassing to do it. I I I
19:59don't want to go on too much about that
20:01but it if you Okay, let's say you had a
20:03mentor that you looked up to. It could
20:04be a grandparent, a coach, a teacher,
20:06someone that expects something from you
20:08like they expect you to be good but they
20:10know they make you feel good and they
20:12make you they just make you proud of
20:14yourself. They don't just say nice
20:16things to you. They make you feel proud
20:17of who you are. How do you treat that
20:19person? That's leadership, right? That's
20:22all I'm teaching here is that I want you
20:24to be that mentor for
20:26that leader for your children. They
20:27don't tend to act out. How often did
20:29your kids act out? I don't know, every
20:31day?
20:32Hardly ever because and then if they did
20:34like if they forgot to do a chore or
20:36something, they'd apologize to me and
20:37then offer something that they had to do
20:40like a a consequence. And sometimes
20:42they'd say, "Ah, forget it. Everyone
20:43forgets a chore every so often." So but
20:45that's where you want to head, right?
20:47But but before that, once you're a
20:48leader, there's a lot more exceptions
20:50and there's a lot more negotiating with
20:51your kids. They have a lot more say. But
20:53when you're gaining your leadership
20:54skills, you you want to be in charge.
20:56You want to be um the one who sort of
20:58makes the rules. They can have some
20:59input, too, but the more the more um
21:02choices that you give them when you're
21:03growing your leadership, it can be more
21:05confusing for them, okay? But later on
21:08it's great. But getting respect is hard
21:10work. Once you've got it, things change.
21:13And it's interesting because I get some
21:15long-term clients who hire me, you know,
21:16many, many times. And um then we get
21:19into more of that. But boy, you got to
21:21cement your leadership first before you
21:23can really go with exceptions and and
21:25asking their advice on what they want to
21:27happen, you know, it sort of shifts and
21:29changes down the road. But initially,
21:30100% consistency, you want to set the
21:33rules and the boundaries and the
21:34structure initially.
21:35>> I do want to clarify like we were not
21:37perfect kids by any means, but I would
21:39say as well like if I'm listening to
21:41that, I want to make it clear that like
21:42I wasn't following rules because out of
21:46fear or uh you know what I mean? Like I
21:49just wouldn't want it to come off as
21:50that way. Like I
21:53I personally, if I look back on my
21:54childhood, I was doing it because it was
21:57like I just wanted to I didn't want to
21:59please you specifically, but
22:01>> You had high self-esteem. Plus who was
22:03in trouble more than anyone in our
22:04household?
22:05>> You.
22:05>> It was always me. It was
22:07>> [laughter]
22:08>> I was always the one in trouble. You've
22:10got to be humble and accountable
22:12yourself. That's a leader, okay? My kids
22:14had total control over that. If I
22:16promised to make muffins, that was one
22:18of my favorite stories that when they
22:19were eight and three, "Mom, can you
22:20please make muffins tonight?" Yeah,
22:22yeah, okay, I'll make muffins tonight.
22:23Of course I forgot. The next day, "Mom,
22:25you forgot to make muffins." I said,
22:26"Oh, shoot. I promise I'll make them
22:28tonight." They looked at each other and
22:30smirked. I knew right away they thought
22:32I wasn't going to do it and they were
22:33going to get something out of me. So I
22:34said, "I said I promise." And they were
22:36laughing as they walked away. Sure
22:37enough, the next morning I forgot. They
22:39come in the kitchen. He's eight, she's
22:40three. They're both small She's smiling
22:42from ear to ear. He's got a real smug
22:44look on his face. And he said, "Mom,
22:45remember last night you promised you
22:48were going to make muffins? Well, I
22:49don't see no muffins."
22:51So I said, "Oh, shoot. What do you
22:53want?" And he says, "We talked about
22:54it." And he was smiling ear to ear. "We
22:56talked about it and we'd like to go to
22:58the water slide park after school." So
23:00we went to the water slide park after
23:01school. It was though. It was just fun.
23:04Like, I loved it when they got something
23:05over me like that. It was always
23:06something like that. So, yeah, it was
23:08great. You got to be accountable, too.
23:09You got to be humble. I never tried to
23:12This is funny. My son's very funny, and
23:13I remember once I said I was talking
23:15about parenting, and I said, "I never
23:17tried to look smarter than you guys."
23:19>> [laughter]
23:19>> My son said, "Like that would have been
23:21possible, anyway."
23:24Yeah, but I never tried to look smart,
23:25but I was a leader. I was a good leader.
23:28But, you don't want to look like you
23:29know it all. And, you know, if they'd
23:30asked me something I didn't know, I was
23:31very quick to say, "I don't know. Let's
23:33figure it out together." So, I always
23:34wanted them to feel empowered, and also
23:37that you know, cuz if you act like you
23:38have all the answers to everything, it's
23:40very intimidating. I didn't want to be
23:41intimidating. I wanted to be a good
23:43mentor/leader.
23:44That was my role.
23:46>> Okay, do you have anything you want to
23:47add before we get into the parenting
23:48questions?
23:49Okay. First one is Sydney from Canada.
23:52Do you still ignore tantrums if child's
23:54tired or hungry? I have a 2 and 1/2 year
23:56old daughter who often melts down around
23:57lunch and nap time. She seems to need
23:59extra support getting through lunch and
24:01ready for a nap.
24:02>> Yeah, that's when you do You never
24:04ignore tantrum around needs. If they're
24:05tired, you put them to bed. If they're
24:07hungry, you feed them. Absolutely. Yeah.
24:09Because remember I I was already saying
24:11that this is These are the tantrums
24:12around the wants, the stuff that they
24:13shouldn't have or shouldn't or they
24:14should be leaving the park or whatever.
24:17>> Okay, the next one is Miriam from the
24:18United States. My son's 5 years old.
24:21When something doesn't go the way he
24:22wanted or as a reaction to the
24:23consequence, he becomes destructive.
24:26Nothing too crazy and dangerous. He'll
24:27push all the dining room chairs down or
24:29open drawers and throw things out or
24:32take something he thinks is important to
24:33me and hide it and screech loudly. Is
24:35this considered a tantrum? Do I stop him
24:38from destruct destructive behavior or
24:40ignore it and make him clean it up
24:41later? The screaming's hard enough for
24:43me to handle. I have to go in another
24:44room to stop from threatening him to be
24:46quiet or tell him to go scream in his
24:48room. I find it very difficult to
24:50ignore. I feel like I need to stop it,
24:53especially if it's disruptive to the
24:54whole household.
24:56>> Okay, that's more of a planned planned
24:58out scene to upset you. I would unless
25:01it's something that he's really
25:02breaking, I would let him go and I would
25:03have on the behavior board no aggressive
25:05behavior would be his rule. And then
25:07after he's finished this this scene,
25:09it's a show, he's putting on a show. Um
25:11and he's learned to do this by the way,
25:13the only reason he's doing it is cuz it
25:14works. It either gets him his own way
25:16cuz you give in sometimes or it upsets
25:18you. You can't show either of those. Let
25:20him go. He's acting out, pushing chairs
25:22around, that's fine. So then you'd say,
25:23"I'll tell you what, let's go to the
25:25board." This is after he's finished.
25:26"Let's go to the board." See my tone,
25:28bit of a lilt in my voice. If you look
25:30upset, he just won, okay? Cuz he's
25:32trying to upset you, that's why he's
25:33doing it. He's he's been trained by you
25:35to do that. By 5 years old, they only do
25:37what works. They do By about 3 and 1/2,
25:39they only do what works, okay? So it's
25:41guaranteed, it must pay off somehow.
25:43Whereas I would make sure it never paid
25:45off with me. Soon as he's finished, I'd
25:47say, "Oh, let's go to the board. And let
25:48me see now, your rule was no aggressive
25:50behavior,
25:52um and then you were pushing chairs
25:53around, that was all aggressive. You
25:55don't have to mention everything. And
25:56then, see how I'm not judge I'm not
25:58blaming and shaming? I'm just pointing
25:59it out as a fact. So, your consequence
26:01is this. I'll tell you what I'm going to
26:03get you to do. I'm going to get you to
26:04put the chairs back up and also and
26:06whatever he broke or not broke, but
26:08whatever he threw around, I'd get him to
26:10sort that back out. But I would list it
26:11all out and I'd say, "I'll check it off
26:13as you do it." So, because he was so
26:15destructive, I always say make that
26:17first consequence the chore about 2
26:19minutes long. Not if he's 5 years old
26:21and he's just, you know, thrown a bunch
26:22of stuff around the house. I would make
26:24a list of everything he did. Be very
26:25organized and go slow. You don't need to
26:27be quick with this. A lot of parents
26:29rush through this stuff. I like to drag
26:30it out, okay? So, I'm going to get you
26:32to pick up the chairs and the pillows.
26:35And you also threw all the books all
26:37over the floor. I'm going to get you to
26:38put up and I'm writing this down as I'm
26:39telling him. And then I'm going to say,
26:41"I'll tell you what, that's going to
26:42take a while. I'm going to give you 20
26:44minutes to do that." And that starts
26:46now, okay? Then don't say another word
26:48about that except to guide him into the
26:50next thing. So say, "Okay, let's start
26:52with the chairs." I don't He's probably
26:54going to say "I hate you. I hate you."
26:56He's running away in the other
26:57direction. Just let him go. When the 20
26:59minutes is up and he's done none of it,
27:00say "Okay, let's go to the board." See
27:03my tone? I have not mentioned what else
27:04he should be doing. I haven't mentioned
27:06he hasn't done anything. So, let's go to
27:07the board. Now, he might not even come
27:09to the board. He probably won't at this
27:11point cuz he's five. He's figured out
27:12he's going to get the big consequence.
27:14So, that's fine. You go to the board all
27:15by yourself. You say now let me see now.
27:18So, his rule was no aggressive behavior.
27:20Then his consequence was to clean up all
27:22the stuff that he threw around. So, he
27:24didn't do that. So, let's see. Oh, here
27:26we go. So, now we're going to go
27:28straight to 24-hour media blackout.
27:30That's the second consequence on the
27:31behavior board or whatever you've got
27:32written down there. So, then you have to
27:34go find him if he's not there with you.
27:36Then you say to him um by the way, your
27:3824-hour media blackout starts now. And
27:41that's it. Do not say another word. He's
27:43going to go berserk. You know why? Cuz
27:45all of a sudden you're leading and
27:47you're you're inviting him to follow you
27:49now. In the past, he's been in charge.
27:51Now, you're in charge. He's going to
27:53fight back. He's five. He's had all
27:55those years to to be in charge. He's not
27:58going to go easy, okay? So, be ready for
28:00it. And the bigger the scene, the bigger
28:02the lesson. Let him have his scene. I
28:03don't care. He'll probably destroy the
28:05whole house at that point. It Be
28:07prepared for that, okay? Nothing you can
28:09do cuz parents will say to me now "Well,
28:11what about now he goes around destroys
28:13everything?" All you can say to that is
28:15"Well, that's why you've got 24-hour
28:16media blackout." And just let him
28:18destroy stuff. When he calms down a bit
28:20I would put it back. You can't ask him
28:21to clean that up. You just can't. Don't
28:23ask me why because it's too confusing.
28:25But yeah, you just clean up after him
28:27all throughout that 24 hours.
28:29>> How is that not discussing bad behavior
28:30when you're pointing out
28:32the aggressive behavior?
28:34>> Because you're I always say you address
28:36bad behavior and you have a consequence
28:38for it. That is It's just That's the
28:40consequence we're discussing.
28:42>> Okay, but that's different from just
28:43discussing bad behavior.
28:44>> discussing bad behavior is when after
28:46the big scene's are over, Now, why would
28:48you do that? You know you shouldn't have
28:49done that. That hurts Mommy's feelings.
28:51You're breaking That's what I mean. You
28:52don't discuss Once it's done, once I've
28:54handed out the consequence, I never go
28:55back and talk about it.
28:57Never. He's in charge if you do. All of
29:00a sudden, it's a lot He's got a lot of
29:02control, a lot of power over you cuz now
29:04you're discussing it. It's like you
29:06can't let go of it. I've let go. It's
29:08over. I know what I'm doing.
29:09I've dealt with it. Right? The calmer
29:12you are, the better.
29:13But, while he's got that 24-hour media
29:15blackout, he's going to have a big scene
29:17initially, I'm assuming. I would I'd be
29:19shocked if he didn't. So, he's having a
29:21big scene. As soon as he stops, you go
29:23in. You say, "Oh, you all done? Do you
29:25want to go play a game?" "No, I hate
29:27you. I hate you." Say, "Okay, never
29:28mind." Walk away. Maybe when he's calmed
29:30down again, wait a half hour, then you
29:32go over to him again. Remember I
29:33Remember what I said earlier? You stay
29:35on that high road and keep inviting them
29:36up there. When he's fin- when they're
29:38finished the tantrum. So, you go back to
29:40him again. You say, "Oh, you're ready
29:41for that game now?" Just keep inviting
29:43him up to that high road. Just keep
29:45doing it. It's showing that you still
29:46love him. You're in control of yourself.
29:49You know what you're doing. You want to
29:50play a game with him. You want to
29:51connect with him. It's up to him if he
29:53does or not. That's fine.
29:54>> Do you find that children get confused
29:56by that when parents start doing that?
29:58>> You know what's funny is maybe a little
30:01bit, but they clue into this stuff. I'm
30:03always amazed at how quickly kids cuz I
30:06I understand kids, okay? I don't
30:07understand adults as much, but I do
30:09understand kids. So, this is all done in
30:12their language. They get it way quicker
30:14than the parents do. Way faster. They It
30:17doesn't mean that they're easy going
30:18into it, but they understand all this.
30:19They like rules and and structure and
30:21routines. And they And they also need,
30:24crave, and want a leader. Once you
30:26provide leadership for them, they tend
30:27to melt right into it. Okay, but you're
30:30If you've got history of not being a
30:31leader, they're going to fight you back
30:33for a while. You're going to have to pay
30:34pay back for you not being a leader.
30:36That's just part of it, okay? But if I
30:38went and I always say to parents, "What
30:39if I went in and I had your kids for a
30:41whole day? what do you think they'd be
30:43like with me? Most parents say, "Well,
30:44they'd probably be pretty good." That's
30:46because I'm level 10 at this cuz I
30:47invented all this stuff. Plus, I have no
30:49history to erase, okay? So, it is going
30:51to be a bit of a struggle initially.
30:53>> The next one is, "I've been a listener
30:55for a year and I've used tons of your
30:57strategies with my toddler. I work with
30:59troubled kids and teens, and naturally
31:00I've used most of your methods before I
31:02knew you existed and saw amazing results
31:04with the kids I worked with, which is
31:05why I was 100% on board with you when I
31:07heard of you. I've never had to
31:08experience anything with babies or
31:10toddlers until my own, and holy crap, I
31:12was blown away at how different it is.
31:14My daughter was an angry baby, hated
31:16everything. Now, she's 33 months and
31:18very energetic and full of life. She has
31:20big tantrums and she hits, but I handle
31:22the behavior calmly. I'm a single mom
31:24and she has three older brothers with
31:26her dad. She spends most weekends with
31:28them and I feel like my leadership
31:29starts over every Sunday evening. She's
31:31defiant and has tantrums until
31:33Wednesday, then everything's back to
31:35baseline. We're happy, following
31:37routines, and have so much fun, and then
31:38Friday evening hits again.
31:40I don't insert myself into what they do
31:42on the weekends, but is there anything I
31:44can do with when I get her back to
31:45shorten the adjustment time period?"
31:47>> Yeah, and it's such a good question
31:49because you do have to reset. And
31:51whenever I was working with kids, I had
31:53a reset period with them. And sometime
31:55it got shorter and shorter as I worked
31:57with them longer and longer.
31:59Um
31:59but because they usually relax into the
32:01leadership, they're usually relieved
32:02when they see a leader coming cuz it may
32:04brings out the best in them and it's the
32:05least resistance to be with a leader. I
32:07know that sounds crazy because they tend
32:09to want to please you, but they don't
32:11have to fight anymore. When they're up
32:12against a leader, they just feel like
32:14they're in more control of themselves.
32:15It's just the way it works. But there is
32:17a reset, and I worked with kids That's a
32:19pool story. That kid in the pool story,
32:21um I worked with him. That was my reset.
32:24Um you know, he with him. So, um anyway,
32:28yeah, the reset could be
32:30it's hard to do. It's not foolproof, but
32:32it could be as something as simple as a
32:34song.
32:35And it could be that's the reset. Now
32:37you're with Mom. It
32:39By the way, music I I'm not a
32:40psychologist or anything, but music has
32:43some it has some different effect on the
32:44brain. So, if you pick a song that means
32:47now you're with Mom, but it's something
32:49that's soothing that they really like
32:50that you sing together, it can literally
32:52help the reset and the transition. So,
32:55it could maybe shorten the the distance
32:58between her, you know, trying to hang on
33:01to Dad's um you know, sort of let stuff
33:03go, I'm assuming, right? So, yeah, it
33:06might help. But music has a different
33:08effect on the brain evidently. It puts
33:10them in a different zone because music
33:12can really affect our moods. Like with
33:14us, think about it. If you hear a happy
33:15song, you like your favorite song, you
33:17tend to get happy. It's kind of like
33:19that. Um now, whether or not it Now, I
33:21would go either way. It might be a calm
33:23soothing one or it might be a happy one.
33:24You said she's very active. She might be
33:27reset by an active one or a calm one.
33:29You'll have to figure that out. Whatever
33:30song I'd try a few different songs
33:32though.
33:33And and only sing that during the
33:35transition. Only when you pick her up,
33:37never any other time. Unless she sings
33:40it. Let her She can sing it as much as
33:41she wants, but only sing it during the
33:43It'll become the transition song.
33:45>> I also want to point out is that this
33:47person did note that it's very different
33:49working with children versus having your
33:51own.
33:52>> It is and yet that's where I learned all
33:54this was working with kids. I always say
33:56I kind of felt like I was mothering
33:57them. The difference is that I only
33:59worked one-on-one with kids. So, when I
34:01was with them, I always felt very
34:02strongly that I was kind of the mother
34:04role with them. So, I I kind of parented
34:06them in a way. I've never worked with
34:07groups of kids. That's different. I
34:09couldn't do it. That's different. Um cuz
34:11I'm very maternal and motherly. So,
34:13that's a different kind of a role is in
34:15groups. So, maybe you worked with
34:16groups. And by the way, anyone who works
34:18with problem teenagers, good for you.
34:20That is
34:21>> [laughter]
34:21>> That is so hard. I've done it. It is so
34:24hard and boy, I never knew I had
34:25patience until I worked with them, I'll
34:26tell you. They tried me. They It was
34:29really challenging until I figured it
34:31out. But anyway, good for you. But,
34:32yeah, your own kids is different because
34:34it's personal. Okay? That's the big
34:36difference. A lot of my clients are
34:37teachers, principals, child
34:38psychologists. You know, I've never had
34:40a youth worker though as a client. A
34:42youth worker usually works with troubled
34:43kids in school. Um so, but I've never
34:46had Not that I know of, I've never had a
34:48youth worker hire me for coaching.
34:50Um I don't know why that is, but I
34:51assume it's because if you can work with
34:53troubled teens, you don't need my help.
34:55But, yeah, it's still It is still
34:56different though. It's still different.
34:58Um yeah. So, yeah, that I I guess that
35:02you know, when I'm hired by teachers,
35:03principals, and child psychologists,
35:05they're not embarrassed anymore cuz
35:06they're used to me like talking like
35:08this, like that That's very common. But,
35:10they used to be. Imagine how
35:11embarrassing it is if you're a child
35:12psychologist and you have your own kid
35:14and a 2-year-old's driving you insane.
35:16>> [laughter]
35:17>> But, it's personal. It's just different.
35:19I couldn't do their jobs. I have no
35:20qualifications for any of that. Totally
35:22admire them and their work. I couldn't
35:23do what they do. But, parenting is
35:25personal. They You feel very like
35:27they're a reflection of you. Okay? So,
35:30everything they do, you take personally.
35:32You don't do that when you're working
35:33with kids usually. I did though.
35:35Um if I was working with a kid and they
35:37acted out under my care, I always
35:39thought, "What am I missing here? What
35:40am I doing wrong?" I always took it very
35:42personally.
35:43And that's just the way I chose to
35:45operate. Um but, yeah, generally, it's
35:47the difference between a business
35:48relationship and a personal
35:49relationship.
35:51>> Okay, the next one is Serenity from the
35:53United States. "I have a 19-month-old
35:55son who is very much a tantrum thrower,
35:57especially in public, like at the
35:59grocery store or anywhere that has an
36:01open space, if that makes sense. And he
36:03doesn't like to hold my hand, and he
36:04hates sitting in the cart and starts
36:06crying and throwing a tantrum. But, if I
36:07let him out of the cart, he runs away
36:09and doesn't like to listen to me. How
36:11can I get him to start holding my hand
36:13or getting him to stay in the cart? I
36:14tried to distract him, and that doesn't
36:16work. Should I ignore his tantrums in
36:18public, too, or address them? He's also
36:20having trouble sitting in restaurants
36:22and wants to walk around and run around.
36:25I've tried to bring a bag of different
36:26toys for him to play with at the
36:27restaurant, and that doesn't seem to
36:29really hold his attention. We also
36:31include him in our conversation. That
36:32doesn't really help either. Please give
36:34me advice.
36:35>> Okay, well, you've already trained him
36:37to do this. And the reason is that
36:39sometimes you'll let him walk beside the
36:40cart, sometimes you'll put him in the
36:42cart. You have to be 100% consistent. My
36:44kids didn't even know that you could
36:46walk beside the cart till they were like
36:47three. They had no clue. They thought
36:49when you go to a supermarket, you sit in
36:51the cart. They had no idea that there
36:52was any other option. Even if they saw
36:54other kids walking, they still knew that
36:56when they were with mom, they were going
36:57to sit in that cart.
36:58>> know why we didn't maybe think that
37:01like, oh wait, mother doesn't sit in a
37:02cart. Not everyone has to sit in a cart.
37:05>> Yeah, but you also didn't drive a car,
37:06and you knew
37:07>> That's true. [laughter]
37:08>> Yeah, so they didn't know the difference
37:09between adults and kids. But anyway,
37:11yeah, you've trained him. So So you once
37:13you've given them freedom, you can't
37:14expect him not to fight you. So your
37:16inconsistency is what he's feeding off
37:18of. Also, you said when you go to
37:19restaurants, and okay, I'll get in get
37:21into the supermarket tantrum a bit more
37:22in a second. But also, you go to
37:24restaurants, does he get up at home? A
37:26lot of parents think, you know, they let
37:27their kids have all this free walking
37:29around with food, which I think is
37:30disgusting. But anyway, I would never
37:31let a kid walk around my home with food.
37:33Um so yeah, if they're allowed to get up
37:34at home, why on earth should you expect
37:36them to be any different in a
37:37restaurant? So a lot of parents think,
37:39well, they have have a different
37:40personality when we go out. You want to
37:42be the same parent, and you'll have the
37:43same kid, no matter where you are. If
37:45they're acting out at home, and they're
37:47they're running around during eating
37:48during dinner time, of course they're
37:50going to do that in a restaurant. Of
37:51course, that you've trained them to do
37:53that. You can't expect them to have
37:54different personalities. Now, also, a
37:56lot of the reason why they're worse when
37:57you're out is cuz you're different. Back
37:59to the supermarket. Whenever I took my
38:01kids uh supermarket shopping, I'm very
38:02fair and reasonable with kids, too. I
38:04don't expect a kid just to sit in a cart
38:06while I'm shopping, cuz we had to do it
38:07a lot. And I just think that's kind of
38:09unfair and mean. So what I had was I had
38:11a uh goody bag, and I had called it the
38:12supermarket goody bag. And every time we
38:14went shopping, they sat in the cart, and
38:16this goody bag sat perfectly in their
38:18lap. It opened up sort of both ends at
38:20the top, and it opened up, and they
38:21could reach in. They always had a drink
38:23and a snack and some little toys like
38:24just from the dollar store or something
38:26that they'd never seen before cuz I
38:27rotated them so they forgot they had
38:29them. So, I was always rotating that
38:31goody bag. It always had different stuff
38:32in it. Plus, they're like eye level with
38:34me so we were chatting. Plus, I never
38:36let them help with groceries. When you
38:38give a kids Kleenex to throw in the
38:40back, they're going to have a tantrum in
38:41the pickle jar aisle. Why can't I throw
38:43pickles in the back? They don't
38:45understand that. Your inconsistency is
38:47often you're training them to act out.
38:49You're not being fair and reasonable to
38:50them. I made sure they had something to
38:52do. They had the goody bag. I was
38:53talking to them so it was a bonding
38:55thing, right? Connecting with them. And
38:57also, I never let them help because if
38:58you ever let them help, they'll always
39:00want to help. They'll want to throw eggs
39:02in the back. It's your inconsistency.
39:04You're You're messing them up and you
39:05just don't even realize it. You let them
39:07walk sometimes and sometimes in the
39:08cart. Course, he's confused. The poor
39:10kid is confused. And then at the
39:12restaurant, like I said, pretty sure you
39:14don't make He doesn't just sit still at
39:15home for a meal.
39:17Cuz he would if he did My kids didn't
39:18know you could get up during a meal.
39:20They had no concept. They thought if you
39:22eat, you're sitting at a table and
39:23that's it.
39:24So, it it because I There was never any
39:26exceptions. Okay? It's the exceptions
39:28and the inconsistency is what's going on
39:29there.
39:30>> The next one is Nolan from Turkey. How
39:33to deal with twin tantrums at 19 months?
39:35One hits, I separate them, they both
39:37cry. Take the toy, both upset.
39:40>> Okay. So, you want to set Okay, there's
39:42two different things going on here. So,
39:44they're fighting and then they're
39:45tantruming. Two different things. But,
39:47okay. So, you want to With twins, it's
39:49really difficult by the way with twins
39:51because they want the exact same things.
39:52When they're different ages, they often
39:54want different things. You either have
39:55two of something or you're facilitating
39:57stuff and you're showing them how to
39:58play. Also, always have different stuff
40:00out. Like literally, rotate the toys all
40:03the time. If you're pulling different
40:04stuff out every single day, like
40:06literally, rotate all the toys. Put
40:08everything away and every single day
40:10pull out maybe five different toys and
40:12you splay them out. They might have
40:13duplicates or whatever. They're looking
40:15at different stuff. They are far less
40:17likely to fight. You are training them
40:18how to get along, okay, at 19 months
40:20old. So, that I'm just going to go on
40:22I'm going to stop there because the
40:23tantrums I've already covered and the
40:25siblings fighting, I'm telling you how
40:27to potentially prevent that in future.
40:29But, once they are a bit older and they
40:30start fighting, I've got lots of videos
40:32on sibling rivalry and kids fighting.
40:34But, I'm just addressing the showing
40:36something different every single day
40:37will teach them it'll just it'll take
40:39their attention away from each other and
40:41more into the toys that they're looking
40:42at. Doesn't have to be expensive toys.
40:44It's just all the same old stuff that
40:45you've had forever, but you're rotating
40:47it. If they only see something maybe
40:49once a month, it's going to be brand new
40:50to them cuz they're a month older, a
40:51month more developed. They're going to
40:53play with it differently. Also, save all
40:55the old toilet rolls and paper towel
40:56holders, and then tape them all
40:58together, make tunnels. They can shoot
40:59things through those tunnels. They love
41:01My kids love stuff like that. I was
41:02always inventing something something.
41:04And then also, have activity times. Say,
41:06"Okay, now it's Play-Doh time. Let's
41:08pack everything up. Um we're going to
41:10get out the Play-Doh. Sit them in two
41:11different seats so they can't touch each
41:12other, right?" So, then give them each
41:14the exact same amount of Play-Doh, have
41:16the same Play-Doh toys or whatever. So,
41:18yeah, have activities, have routines.
41:21>> Okay, we have one final question. So,
41:22Stephanie from Japan, "I have a
41:246-month-old son and I'm trying to learn
41:26ahead of time how to handle toddler
41:28tantrums in a healthy way. From what I
41:30understand, a lot of parenting
41:31specialists recommend very few words,
41:33staying calm and present without
41:34over-engaging, modeling breathing,
41:36redirecting when possible, and then
41:37offering comfort once the tantrum has
41:39passed. The idea seems to be that
41:41toddlers don't yet have a fully
41:43developed prefrontal cortex. So, when
41:45they're dysregulated, they're
41:46essentially in fight or flight and they
41:47need help through co-regulation.
41:50For the most part, I think your advice
41:51aligns with that. The one part I'm
41:53trying to understand better is what
41:54happens after the tantrum ends. In one
41:57of your podcasts, I remember you
41:58advising parents not to soothe or
42:00comfort the child after the tantrum's
42:01over cuz it can unintentionally reward
42:03the behavior and encourage more
42:05tantrums. Instead, you suggested asking
42:07in a positive tone, "Are you done?" and
42:09redirecting their attention. That's the
42:12only place where I've noticed a
42:13difference from your advice I've heard.
42:14So, I'm wondering if I may be
42:16understanding the nuance. Can you please
42:17speak a little bit more about how you
42:19think about soothing versus rewarding a
42:21tantrum?
42:23>> Boy, that was well written, wasn't it?
42:25>> That was so well written and that was
42:27not well articulated by me. I know I
42:29butchered some words there.
42:30>> The whole time I'm listening I think,
42:31"Geez, that was well written. Well
42:33done." Okay, um the kind of I was so
42:36busy listening [laughter] to what they
42:37were saying. Okay, I don't ignore
42:38tantrums when they're babies. Okay,
42:40they're babies up till about 16 months
42:42old. I redirect. Okay, I don't ignore a
42:44tantrum when they're baby. But after
42:45that, now you said about the soothing
42:47and the connecting. Soothing is, "Aw,
42:49come here. Give me a hug." That's
42:50soothing. That's when you're kind of
42:51almost rewarding the tantrum like you
42:53felt bad about it. Whereas I will pat
42:55them on the back say, "You're all
42:56right." So, they want "I need a hug."
42:59after a tantrum. This is 16 months or 18
43:01months and older, right? When they're in
43:02the toddler stage cuz they're a baby
43:03under that age. So, then when they're in
43:05that zone, "I need a hug." I would pat
43:08them on the back, "You're all right.
43:10Let's go read a book." You see that
43:12tone? That tone is very, very, very
43:14important. "Let's go read a book." And
43:16then you can sit and read and I've said
43:18this before, you can sit and read a
43:19book. They can climb into your lap. Now,
43:22you're not instant you're not soothing
43:24them, but now they can have some cuddles
43:26if they still need it. Often times they
43:27don't even need it after that, okay?
43:29Your energy, your tone is your
43:31narrative, the their tone of voice is so
43:34important. "You're all right. Let's go
43:36read a book." I'll give you a really
43:37good example of this. If I was carrying
43:39on cuz I was upset about something. My
43:40dad was a pleaser, my mom was a leader.
43:42And if I was upset about something, I
43:44would have said, "Yeah, I want that."
43:46And my dad would have said, "What do you
43:47want, sweetie pie? Come on, let's let's
43:49help you." And I got worse and worse and
43:51worse. He was in the zone with me. My
43:53mom would have said, "You're all right.
43:55>> [laughter]
43:55>> Come on over here and help me get this
43:57done." And I instantly stopped and it
43:59calmed me right down.
44:01It was my mom's energy. It was like
44:02she's not going to entertain that crazy
44:04stuff. Whereas my dad was trying so hard
44:06to soothe me and help me, but he was
44:08making it worse. My mom was, "Come on
44:11over here. You're all right. Come and
44:12help me bake this cake." And I was like,
44:14"Okay."
44:16>> [laughter]
44:16>> See the difference? It's connecting, not
44:18She didn't say, "Oh, sweetie pie." My
44:20dad was trying to soothe me. My mom was
44:23like, "You're all right." She was in
44:24charge of the energy. Very good at it.
44:26>> I think that that was a really great
44:28question though, and I think that that
44:29is one of the big differences that I
44:30see.
44:31>> Yeah, it was a great question plus well
44:34articulated.
44:35>> Okay. Well, that was it for the
44:36questions.
44:37>> Okay, this is a bit of a hairy topic and
44:39I can understand why people think that
44:41I'm being mean, but ignoring tantrums.
44:43I'm not going to change that wording.
44:44I've been using that same wording for 54
44:46years. I am ignoring the tantrum, but
44:48I'm not ignoring the kid. I'm right
44:50there. I need to be I'm nearby. I don't
44:52leave them. I'm right there. So, I'm not
44:55ignoring the kid. I'm ignoring the
44:56tantrum, okay? I'm right there. Okay,
44:59and they know that. They learn after the
45:00first tantrum, they start to get it.
45:02Parents struggle with this stuff. Kids
45:04don't. They lean into it. I speak their
45:06language. I just understand kids. I just
45:08always did and I hope I always do. I
45:10just get it when I'm sit Whenever I see
45:12them doing something, I can almost
45:14always read their minds. I know what
45:15they're thinking. I know what they're
45:16going through. They're they're pretty
45:18transparent. They don't hide much.
45:20Adults are harder, right? We can mask
45:22more. Kids don't. You can see it all
45:24over their face. They're they're
45:25frantic. They're trying to drag you into
45:27it. They don't know what else to do, but
45:29I'm right there. I am providing them
45:31with calm leader to join.
45:34Okay? All they have to do is join me.
45:36That's all they have to do. I'm right
45:37there. So, I don't I don't leave them
45:39alone, but I certainly do not I do not
45:42give that tantrum any attention
45:44whatsoever because it doesn't need it.
45:46Any attention is fertilizing it. You're
45:48just going to make it grow.
45:49>> And I know that this was quite a long
45:51episode, but I think that we don't have
45:53like a set specific time for our
45:56episodes because I don't want to stretch
45:57out an episode that we just don't have
45:59anything more to add. Whereas this boy,
46:02you had a You had a lot to add.
46:04>> Plus, you never know when I'm going to
46:05go off on a tangent. So, and we don't
46:07want to miss out on those Some of them
46:08are juicy. Some of them are maybe just
46:10annoying. But, anyway, so, yeah, we
46:11don't know how long our podcast is going
46:13to go. Plus, I never know what we're
46:14going to be talking about. I don't
46:16operate that way. I need to be
46:17surprised.
46:19Like, if I knew what we're going to be
46:20talking about, then I think maybe I
46:21should plan something, and I don't do
46:22that. But, anyway, I I hope you
46:24understood what I'm saying. I really
46:26believe in this. I've been doing it for
46:2754 years, and it's worked beautifully
46:29with all the hundreds of kids I've
46:30worked with. A couple I've raised. Um
46:32so, yeah, it works because I I'm right
46:35there, and they're looking at you.
46:37They're not listening to you anyway.
46:38They're watching you. My calmness calms
46:40them down.
46:42>> Okay, well, I think that is a great
46:44place to end.
46:45>> Okay, we'll be back again soon talking
46:46about another parenting topic. Happy
46:48parenting.
46:50>> Thanks for tuning in. If you're ready to
46:52dive deeper, check out bratbusters.com
46:54to learn more about the behavior board,
46:56parenting courses, and private
46:58one-on-one coaching with Lisa. If you've
47:00enjoyed the show so far, we'd love it if
47:02you could take a moment to follow, rate,
47:03and review us on your favorite podcast
47:05platform. Your feedback helps us reach
47:07more parents just like you. The
47:09information provided in this podcast is
47:11for general informational purposes only,
47:13and is not intended as a substitute for
47:15professional advice. Lisa is a parenting
47:17coach, mom, and grandmother. She is not
47:20a licensed psychologist or counselor.
47:22Her services do not replace the care of
47:24psychologist or other healthcare
47:25professionals. For a full disclaimer,
47:27please visit bratbusters.com/disclaimer.

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