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What To Do if Your Spouse Cheats — Transcript

by Jordan B Peterson Clips · 2,223 words · 377 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00this week I discovered my wife was
0:01having an affair
0:03I still love her despite the Betrayal
0:05how do I navigate this
0:11it's an easy one then
0:24so if if you came to me
0:27and as a
0:29client say of my clinical practice
0:33I would help you take that question
0:36apart
0:37this week I discovered that my wife was
0:40having an affair
0:42it's like
0:44did you discover that this week
0:47or were there Clues and hints
0:50for a very long period of time and I'm
0:53not suggesting that that's the case by
0:55the way to this particular individual I
0:58don't know anything about the person who
0:59asked this question and so I would also
1:01ask whoever that is not to presume that
1:05I'm speaking directly to their concerns
1:08because I don't know
1:10that person well enough to do that I
1:12have to provide something approximating
1:13a generic answer
1:17in order for that to be rectified you
1:20need to know
1:22what ex what exactly happened here what
1:24what's the significance of this event
1:26and that's a one vicious question now
1:31the person asking the question also
1:33leaps to an immediate conclusion so
1:35there's a big problem here my wife had
1:37an affair question mark what's going on
1:41but then they provide an answer
1:44I still love her and
1:47what's the next part of it exactly what
1:49you know how to how to navigate it right
1:51so the answer is I still love her and I
1:54need to know how to navigate forward
1:55it's like well
1:57I'm not so convinced of that by the way
2:01um
2:03are you are you not angry are you not
2:05upset frustrated disappointed anxious
2:07hurt betrayed traumatized
2:11or is there part of you who now knows
2:13the relationship is over and because it
2:16wasn't a very good relationship you're
2:17thrilled because now you have the right
2:20to engage in the same sort of devious
2:22Pathway to hypothetical Freedom that
2:24your wife took
2:26because that can certainly be the case
2:28like when when a bomb like that goes off
2:31in the midst of your life everything is
2:34up for grabs and so to immediately say I
2:38still love her it's like yeah maybe and
2:40maybe not and if that's all you feel
2:43well then that in itself is definitely a
2:45problem and also might be a key to why
2:49it happened to begin with because you
2:51appear to be the sort of person who can
2:52be stomped on pretty damn hard and not
2:56object
2:58and like I said
2:59to the person who asked this question I
3:01am not talking about you I don't know
3:03anything about you and I'm not presuming
3:05I'm just laying out the potential
3:07landscape
3:09what other problems do you have
3:12how long have you been married is the
3:13whole damn thing a lie is every
3:16relationship you've ever had a lie are
3:19you a complete doormat are you blind
3:21Beyond capacity have you married someone
3:24who's Psychopathic or narcissistic do
3:26you have a pattern of associating with
3:27people like that
3:30those are all questions that are going
3:32to plague
3:34and should plague you in some real sense
3:36when something like that happens so the
3:39first issue is well what the hell
3:40happened and man that'll that can take
3:43thousand hours that should have been
3:46spent in discussion with your wife
3:48before this happened trying to get to
3:51the bottom of it
3:53people are often traumatized by that
3:57kind of Revelation and the reason
3:58they're traumatized is because well
4:02imagine you have a committed
4:03relationship with someone so you might
4:06ask what is the basis of the commitment
4:08and there's a hierarchy of commitment in
4:11that some commitments are more
4:14fundamentally important than others and
4:16those are the commitments upon which all
4:17other commitments rely and so when you
4:20set up a household with someone and you
4:21move towards permanent intimate
4:24relationship and hypothetically in the
4:26direction of let's say having dependent
4:28children then you're doing all that
4:31based on the presupposition that the
4:33person is faithful to you because that's
4:36one of the defining attributes of the
4:37relationship itself and so when that
4:40axiomatic presupposition is shattered
4:42then everything dependent on that is now
4:46questionable and that not only includes
4:49the present what the hell is going on
4:51now the future what are we going to do
4:54who am I with anyways but also the past
4:57itself because you were living let's say
5:00in something approximating a Fool's
5:02Paradise and nothing that you thought to
5:05be the case was the was in fact the case
5:08and so that's a dreadful problem
5:12and how you Cobble something like that
5:14back together is a very very difficult
5:17problem I would say the first thing you
5:21do is
5:24open yourself up to the admission of the
5:26magnitude of the problem
5:28what's the problem who am I anyways that
5:32this happened to me
5:34who are other human beings that they
5:37could do this to each other
5:39right so those are fundamental questions
5:41about the nature of
5:43social relationships themselves or even
5:45about individual identity very very
5:49unsettling questions
5:52someone I loved has the capacity for
5:55that magnitude of betrayal that's a a
5:58dreadful realization not least in part
6:01because it also implies to some degree
6:03that you also have the same capacity
6:06um Dante
6:08Dante wrote a book the the
6:12Divine oh no I can't remember the name
6:15of the book
6:16The Inferno
6:18and The Inferno it's from The Inferno
6:21that we derive many of our ideas about
6:24hell our
6:25poetic imaginative representation of the
6:30domain of the underworld domain of
6:32darkness and catastrophe and
6:34at the bottom of Hell Dante put Satan
6:37himself but one rung above that he put
6:39those who betray
6:41and betrayal is the inversion of trust
6:44right you can't betray me unless I've
6:47trusted you
6:48and trust is the precondition for all
6:50social relations and so to betray
6:53someone who deeply trusts you is to
6:56demolish the foundation of relationship
6:58itself and so that's why Dante placed it
7:02way deep down in the substructure of
7:04hell and so when betrayal occurs then
7:07you're faced with all those problems
7:13in a therapeutic
7:15environment I would walk the person
7:17through their marriage
7:18it's like let's lay out the story and
7:22see if we can figure out
7:24where things went wrong and I wouldn't
7:27presume to know as a therapist at all
7:30because each person's catastrophe is
7:33very particularized and singular and
7:37all I would be able to do in that
7:39situation is to listen to the account of
7:42the past let's say and to ask the person
7:46to clarify when I didn't understand and
7:49to see if I could evoke from them a
7:52coherent and plausible causal account of
7:56the pathway to the catastrophe
7:59that was differentiated and detailed
8:02enough so that once they understood it
8:04they would be less likely to repeat it
8:08and that's how you recover from
8:10something like this you recover from
8:11something like this by not being the
8:14sort of person to whom that will ever
8:16happen again
8:18and
8:19that might be it could be as I alluded
8:22to earlier that
8:24now and then people get unlucky and they
8:27partner with someone who is
8:28fundamentally and malevolently
8:31unreliable and that's a re that's brutal
8:34if that occurs and you might think well
8:36there's no people that are fundamentally
8:38and malevolently unreliable and I would
8:40say well you're either naive and you
8:42better watch out because one of these
8:44Adventures is coming your way or you've
8:46been unbelievably fortunate and has just
8:48have just never encountered someone like
8:50that
8:51and so
8:52I would find out from the person just
8:55exactly what it is they think they've
8:58encountered and to try to characterize
9:00that they've certainly encountered this
9:02Spirit of betrayal no doubt about that
9:04have they encountered their own capacity
9:06for naive willful blindness probably
9:13all of that has to be rectified before
9:15this shattered reality can be put back
9:18together
9:19and it has to be rectified and that's an
9:22extraordinarily complicated problem
9:26the the the answer to the problem is how
9:29do I now move forward knowing what I
9:32know about my own capacity for blindness
9:35and the ability of others even when
9:37trusted to engage in deep betrayal and
9:41that's
9:47are there general principles for that
9:49there are
9:52one thing you'll have to do to recover
9:55is to regain your willingness to trust
10:00but it can't be naive because look where
10:04that got you
10:05it has to be wise and courageous and so
10:09to recover from this you're going to
10:10have to be able to trust again
10:13but that'll have to be trust will have
10:15to be predicated on something like
10:16courage rather than naivety and the
10:19courage is something like the courage
10:21all wise people have when they undertake
10:23a relationship which is something like I
10:25know perfectly well that you're chock
10:29full of snakes
10:30just like me but the best pathway
10:33forward nonetheless is for us to extend
10:35a hand in trust to each other and see if
10:37we can build a valid and solid and
10:41sustainable and iterable relationship
10:42despite our mutual inadequacies and our
10:46proclivity for malevolence and there
10:48isn't a better way path there isn't a
10:50better pathway forward than that and
10:53that is
10:54pathway is predicated on the ability to
10:57adopt a posture of attentive Trust
11:01and so
11:04you
11:06it's frequently the case that someone in
11:08this situation has to mature past their
11:11naivety and that's a very painful thing
11:13to do
11:15and then to regain their footing now the
11:18final part of this is can you do that
11:21with the person
11:24that you are now married to and the
11:26answer is
11:27well you didn't do it the first time
11:30so I wouldn't count on it does that mean
11:34it's impossible
11:36no
11:38but
11:40it's going to require a lot of
11:42courageous digging to get to that point
11:45a lot of admission of Rage too you know
11:49it's like I am so upset with you that it
11:51isn't obvious to me that I could ever
11:53forgive you I don't even know how I
11:56would do that can you help me figure
11:59that out well then you have to trust the
12:00other person too
12:02convince you that they're now
12:03trustworthy
12:05well that's
12:06maybe they can do that and you can you
12:08know you can you can refer to your own
12:11resentment
12:12one of the pathways to forgiveness is to
12:15have the person who's wronged you
12:17confess
12:19right and to confess is to give a
12:22detailed and compelling accurate
12:24differentiated causal account of the
12:27Betrayal
12:29it's like here's exactly what happened
12:32here's the multiple instances here's my
12:36entire set of motivations this is why I
12:38was so angry with you that I thought
12:40that this betrayal was acceptable here's
12:43why I was so impulsive and shallow that
12:46I believed that the affair was
12:47justifiable right that has to go all the
12:49way down to the depths
12:52to a depth that's as deep as the
12:55Betrayal itself
12:56and maybe once that confession has been
12:59made manifest and a plan has been put
13:01forward that is indicative of the
13:04willingness and ability to change that
13:07are re-configured
13:10relationship can be newly established
13:13and move forward on that basis but
13:16man
13:19it's a tough road to hold and it's
13:22highly unlikely
13:24so
13:30there's a rule in this book do not hide
13:34unwanted things in the fog
13:36yeah well
13:39people hide a lot unwanted things in the
13:42fog in their relationships and
13:44sometimes the consequence of that is a
13:46deep betrayal and the medicine the
13:49medicine for that the necessary antidote
13:52for that is to reveal all those hidden
13:55things and God in a relationship that's
13:57gone spectacularly wrong that can be
14:00ten thousand things
14:02that weren't faced in the course of the
14:05relationship and every single one of
14:07them has to be
14:09resurrected and thought through
14:12so
14:16you know unfortunately in some sense
14:18that's fated as well because once you've
14:21been hurt like that there isn't an
14:23alternative in terms of
14:25re-constituting yourself you have there
14:28isn't another option you have to face
14:30everything that made you vulnerable in
14:34that manner to begin with and
14:38that's that's a lot to face especially
14:40all at once especially when you've been
14:42avoiding it for maybe decades or maybe
14:44your whole life it's rough so good luck
14:48with it and don't
14:50pretend
14:52here's a piece of advice and as a
14:54therapist I generally don't give people
14:56advice because that isn't the rule of a
14:58therapist
15:00do not pretend to be better than you are
15:02in this situation
15:05right you the fact that you're enraged
15:09let's say
15:11and you should be
15:14is actually
15:17that has to be fully admitted and worked
15:19through
15:20because otherwise you'll reconstitute
15:23the relationship on unbelievably unshaky
15:26grounds and
15:29some crisis will come your way that's
15:32not even very serious and blow you into
15:34bits again
15:36so
15:37you'll be able to forgive the person
15:40if they can
15:43confess and transform deeply enough so
15:46that your rage is actually genuinely
15:51eliminated
15:52and that's going to take
15:55that's going to take a lot of effort man
15:57and a lot of honesty a lot of
16:00willingness to see that you are in fact
16:02that demolished and outraged
16:07that's a vicious pit to contemplate
16:12thank you

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