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What's next for Slay the Spire 2: the ending, new character(s), new modes? — Transcript

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0:00A single-player early access deck
0:02builder sequel is the best-selling new
0:04game of 2026 on Steam. In my 18 years of
0:07PC Gamer, that's never happened. Slay
0:10the Spire 2 represents a genre breaking
0:12out of its niche to reach curious
0:13players wondering what's the big deal
0:15about a robot who just can't get enough
0:18orbs, the introvert with the world's
0:19biggest knife collection, and the big
0:22bone hand that will protect you and your
0:24family. Slay the Spire 2's explosive
0:26popularity is fascinating, even if we
0:28mostly saw it coming.
0:30It was the number one game we selected
0:32in the PC Gaming Show Most Wanted at the
0:34end of 2025. I spoke with Mega Crit
0:36co-founder Casey Yano about what's
0:38ahead, potential new modes and
0:40characters, what an eventual ending to
0:42Slay the Spire 2 might look like,
0:44as well as some details on creative
0:45process, win rates, and more.
0:52>> [snorts]
0:59>> What do you make of the magnitude of the
1:00game's success?
1:03It's kind of weird to me. I don't I
1:04thought the genre was a little a lot
1:06smaller than a lot smaller than that.
1:08You know, I mean, we made a sequel,
1:10which I think is a huge thing, so people
1:12kind of anticipated us.
1:13Whereas, you know, a game like Balatro
1:15or Balatro or, you know, however however
1:18local it like feels like saying it, that
1:20kind of just kind of like came out of
1:20nowhere. So, I think the spike is a
1:22little different as well. So, [music]
1:24it's a it's a pretty interesting thing.
1:27Hoping it'd be a little smaller,
1:28honestly, so that so that the so that
1:30our changes and stuff, the magnitude of
1:32those things are a little bit smaller,
1:33and we can be a little bit more
1:34experimental. But Does it create kind of
1:36more pressure at launch? Does does it
1:38feel different in some ways? I mean, I
1:41think the pressure for changes is a lot
1:44scarier when there are more players, cuz
1:47it's like
1:48if you're trying to make dinner for like
1:5010 people, or if you're trying to make
1:52dinner for like a thousand people,
1:53right? The magnitude is is just
1:55different. And it's like, oh, like I
1:58accidentally had one hair
2:00in the dinner for like eight people.
2:01It's like, oh, there's a hair in my
2:02dinner. And it's like, oh, that sucks.
2:03I'm sorry. But if you have like a
2:05thousand people, it could be it could
2:06kind of spiral out of control, right?
2:07So, like, I can't believe there was a
2:08hair in this dinner.
2:12A lot of the core of Slay the Spire 2 is
2:14pretty familiar. You know, you've got
2:16three of the same playable heroes.
2:17You've got you know,
2:19a set of relics and cards that are
2:21pretty familiar by far and large. You
2:23know, many meaningful modifications, of
2:24course. A lot of new enemies, of course.
2:26Is there any plan to build in more
2:29radical directions over the course of
2:31early access? You know, to sort of take
2:33the game in in in new areas and explore
2:35new things? Or are you kind of focus on
2:37kind of further adding to that core
2:39formula? I do want to try a few things.
2:41>> [music]
2:42>> But it they kind of have to pass our
2:45like experimental phase. I'm not sure if
2:47all of that will be will be public. So,
2:49we'll we'll see. But I do I do want to
2:52kind of have like a foundation and then
2:54work
2:55and make different things. I imagine the
2:57first few characters we launch with to
2:58be simpler. Like I think the Regent is
3:00like a simple character. It's like it's
3:02a character with two resources. That's
3:04like the core concept. The other
3:06character, Necrobinder, is supposed to
3:07be like slightly more complicated, but
3:09who knows what the other character or
3:11characters will be when we add those. We
3:13want to work on a few more alternate
3:15acts.
3:16And then
3:17uh the ending has some ideas, but, you
3:20know, I'm not not many of our ideas
3:22survive the uh
3:23the process, we'll say.
3:25>> [music]
3:25>> So, we'll just we'll just try our best
3:27to see what is what is a good balance
3:29between novelty and familiarity.
3:31So, you know, obviously, this is just
3:33kind of the first iteration. However,
3:35players are already, you know, running
3:36wild with
3:37interesting new infinite combos and, you
3:40know, ways of playing the game, new
3:41builds.
3:42I saw a couple of days ago that someone
3:44was able to deal
3:45770 million damage to Waterfall Giant
3:49which in his final phase, which revealed
3:52that he doesn't have infinite health, in
3:53fact, in his final form.
3:55>> [laughter]
3:56>> Pretty cool. So, I'm curious, like,
3:58what's the most creative combo or build
4:00you've seen so far?
4:02I kind of overvalue consistency. So,
4:04whenever people find new ways to get
4:07into the same kind of infinite for a
4:09character,
4:10it's always really impressive, rather
4:11than being like, oh, these two cards
4:13together. If you have a good timing and
4:15good resources to sustain yourself for a
4:16little bit, and you pick up like cloning
4:18capsule in Act 2. If you duplicate any
4:20of like
4:21>> [music]
4:21>> the rare cantrip type of like cards,
4:24cards that kind of like replenish
4:25themselves, or like you can play for
4:27free and it just has like a small
4:28advantage. You just have like
4:3050 or 100 of those, and it's like it's
4:32like, oh, okay, or we're cooking, right?
4:34Like that's like that's like the pale
4:35classic. But I don't know. I always like
4:37it when there's like four or five
4:38different cards that can somehow end up
4:40being an infinite instead of [music]
4:41like two or three. But that's generally
4:43how I feel about the goal of those kinds
4:46of abusable mechanics is that we don't
4:48have too many easy ways to get into
4:49them. But we definitely want to make
4:50sure that it's possible, and then you
4:53can see
4:54that you can see a fine thread to get
4:55there if you want to.
4:59You know, in your previous announcements
5:00around the game, you've talked about
5:02adding various game modes over the
5:03course of early access. I'm just
5:05curious, you know, what should our
5:07expectations be here? Are we talking
5:09about things that kind of add modifiers
5:11or new challenges on normal runs, or
5:13you know, more expansive stand-alone
5:16modes that like as as robust as co-op
5:19mode? I see. Very very astute
5:21observation, noticing that bullet point.
5:23There are three specific things that I
5:24have in mind, which I'll try to explain
5:26in a very vague way to not give away too
5:29much. The first one is a mode that kind
5:32of like is meant for people who want to
5:35play in a very competitive fashion.
5:37The second one is
5:39for people who want to have the Slay the
5:41Spire experience,
5:42but not have the time to do so.
5:45Uh and the third one is what if there
5:47were other ways to interact with people
5:49socially or in like a multiplayer kind
5:51of setting with the current systems that
5:54exist today? So, those are those to me
5:56are like the three different types of
5:57like kind of like types of ways to
6:00interact with Slay the Spire that don't
6:01exist right now. You know, maybe we'll
6:03find a way to do that, or maybe, you
6:05know,
6:06maybe having those modes dilutes the
6:08core experience, and it might not make
6:10it at all. But it's something that we
6:11just need to just need to try to find
6:13out. You're still forming it. It's not
6:16it's not certain at this stage. It's uh
6:18yeah. Like we have a we have a design
6:20for the modes, but until it's in and we
6:23see what our players actually think
6:24about it, we we never make like a like,
6:27oh, 100% this has to be done. I do think
6:29in a way that a game designer can be
6:32like, I'm making this thing, and if you
6:33like it, you like it, and if you don't
6:35like it, you don't like it.
6:38>> [music]
6:40>> But after a certain point, we want to
6:42make sure that like everything that the
6:44people interact with in the game is
6:46something that would be fun for you. We
6:48don't want to just make a bunch of
6:49things and be like, here's 25 game
6:51modes, and if we know that only two of
6:52them are fun, I just despise the idea of
6:55having 23 worthless buttons on the
6:56screen. That's like a very like big
6:58no-no for me. Will you be introducing
7:00more Ascension levels later in
7:01development as like the next layer of
7:03difficulty?
7:05I can't say today if we're going to have
7:06more Ascension or not. I personally felt
7:08that the climb for 20 on a per character
7:11was was a little bit higher than we
7:12wanted for the first game, but it kind
7:16of felt like we we wanted to, just
7:17because we kind of wanted to see the the
7:20limits that people can tolerate
7:22difficulty. And it's and it's quite it's
7:24quite difficult. And also just 20 games
7:26is quite a lot. I don't really believe
7:28in the idea of making a game that you
7:30that the game kind of forces you to play
7:32forever. And when I say forces, I mean
7:34that there's so many extrinsic
7:36motivators in the game for you to unlock
7:38that it's like a that it's like this
7:40bizarre like infinitely hard thing to
7:43get 100% on. I want people to generally
7:45reach 100% relatively early compared to
7:48most games where you just kind of grind
7:49it out forever. Like I would hope that
7:50people get 100 hour 100% in less than
7:53100 hours, even for a game they worked
7:55on for like five years, right? And I
7:56think that you as a human being that
7:58plays video games should be like, what
8:00what like what joy am I getting out of
8:01this video game? What can I play that is
8:03not like chasing achievements or like
8:05filling out numbers to be 100%. Because
8:07we have more characters, we don't want
8:09to have 20 Ascensions. Let's say we end
8:11up with 10 characters. 10 characters
8:12with 10 Ascensions is like is like 100
8:14Ascensions, right? Yeah. For Slay the
8:16Spire 1, right? We have four characters.
8:18Four characters with 20 Ascensions is 80
8:20Ascensions. We don't really want the
8:21game to be like way longer than the
8:23first game, but we want there to be like
8:25reasons to play. So, there's like a
8:26minimum, but there's also like a
8:28maximum, I guess. Uh from my from my
8:30perspective, at least. You know,
8:32speaking of difficulty, of course, you
8:33know, one of the differences from my
8:34perspective between the original Slay
8:36the Spire and the sequel is just the
8:38power level of elites.
8:40I see them as, you know, generally
8:41tougher than the first game, of course.
8:43Can we talk about them as a particular
8:45piece of design? And I guess is there
8:47anything in in your data so far that's
8:49telling you
8:50one way or the other about elites in
8:51particular? They are certainly harder.
8:54They give you a relic, so they can give
8:55you a big power bump. And so, we didn't
8:57want it to feel like you the choices
9:00that you have to fight an elite and like
9:02and try to win all the time and try to
9:04like kind of snowball by just killing
9:06every single elite that you see. That
9:07strategy is like makes the map kind of
9:09boring. And so, if you make the elites
9:11harder,
9:12you just kind of have to really think
9:13about like like my run might end here.
9:15So, should I be avoiding them? Should I
9:17be making sure that I fight them later
9:18on in the act? We're just kind of just
9:21moving that scale a little bit to a
9:22certain side, I guess, is kind of how I
9:24feel about it. Uh but you might get a
9:26different answer from Anthony. So,
9:28I feel like our our work on the game has
9:30diverged a little bit. He's stayed much
9:32more on the balancing content side, just
9:34cuz we have much more employees than in
9:36the past, which is, you know, we we had
9:38zero employees. And now we have and now
9:40we have seven. And so, we have to do a
9:42lot of other other work. I do a lot more
9:44generalist work, so I don't get to spend
9:46as much time uh in the design weeds that
9:48I used to.
9:50I've been having the most success with
9:51Ironclad so far. You know, I I find him
9:53like really fun to play, and so I just
9:55sort of think of him of him as the jock
9:57of uh Slay the Spire 2, you know, just
10:00wailing on people. What is the the the
10:03relative win rate of the characters so
10:05far? I know it's hard to generalize cuz
10:07you know, it depends on ascension level,
10:08of course, but who's succeeding the
10:10most, who's winning the least?
10:13Uh for ascension one specifically, the
10:15win rate of uh the Regent and Ironclad
10:18are tied as slightly lower. They're at
10:2125% while the other characters are up to
10:2330%. So, it's a between a 5% range.
10:2725 and 30, yeah.
10:28Um and the trend looks pretty similar
10:30for ascension zero, which is
10:33uh 11% and 15%. That's the range. But,
10:36it is always interesting to see a
10:37character that we thought was stronger
10:39or um not as strong during our play
10:42tests be like a little different just
10:44because once somebody figures out a
10:46specific strategy and that becomes
10:48popularized, the win rates shift over
10:50time. There's like a There's like a
10:51social There's like a social or cultural
10:53trend which makes a character stronger
10:55over time, which is which is both good
10:58and bad depending on, you know, your
11:00philosophy of how you should be
11:02interfacing with video games. Are you
11:04able to say like what the the top or top
11:07three relics might be so far? In the
11:09very uh surface level data that we have
11:12saved today, uh Ivory Tile, Tough
11:15Bandages, and Emotion Chip are the
11:17highest. So.
11:19But, that could change tomorrow cuz
11:20these numbers are very low.
11:21>> Let's talk about a card then. You know,
11:23one of the community's kind of curious
11:25fixations on Reddit in the last few days
11:27has been the Silent card Snake Bite.
11:30Some players have discovered this
11:32interesting strategy right of not
11:33playing the card and just retaining it
11:35in order to set up other cards in their
11:36deck like Calculated Gamble or
11:38Flechettes. Have you been seeing that
11:40conversation about Snake Bite and I'm
11:42curious what you make of it. I I like
11:44Snake Bite. That's all I'm going to say.
11:46I think it I think it's fine. And
11:48sometimes it takes a while for people to
11:49figure out if something is fine or not
11:51fine. Um but I tend to I tend to play
11:54roguelikes and roguelites. Mostly just
11:56roguelites. Sorry, classic roguelike
11:58folks. Um but when I play a lot of
12:00roguelites, I I kind of try to play
12:02blind. Like I never look up any strategy
12:04whatsoever. Um and I play some in a
12:07pretty serious capacity. I feel like I'm
12:09like a top 10 Nova Drift player.
12:12Cuz I like play the dailies and I like
12:14looking numbers and I look at win rates
12:15and things like that. Um but I've never
12:17looked up a single build in my life,
12:19right? Like I've never even joined any
12:20kind of conversation. I haven't even
12:22looked up the wiki. And that's kind of
12:24how I like to play my games. Try to
12:26figure out what the designer's intent uh
12:29within the game is
12:30and then try to try to find weaknesses
12:33in like the way it was designed or maybe
12:35something was misbalanced. And so,
12:38that's the joy for me. And so, Snake
12:40Bite is kind of like
12:42like if someone after everyone tells you
12:43it's good or bad and you just [music]
12:45like accept it blindly, that's like a
12:46very sad thing for me. I I look at the
12:49card and I see what kind of synergies it
12:51has or doesn't have. At face value, it's
12:53a hor- it seems like a horrendous card.
12:55And I think it's a very fun thing in
12:57your life as someone who is getting good
13:00at roguelike games to one day be like,
13:02"Oh, this is actually useful in these
13:04niche use cases." To me, that's a very
13:06good card. We don't We don't have like a
13:08strong desire to change the card uh for
13:10that one specifically. But, who knows?
13:12There could be riots on the streets
13:13tomorrow. So.
13:17Talking about design a little bit, I'm
13:18curious if or whether the design of Slay
13:21the Spire 2 was influenced at all by
13:23your work with Contention Games on the
13:25board game, you know, like
13:26obviously, the board game is sort of
13:28where we first saw the idea of co-op in
13:31Slay the Spire.
13:32Is there a direct link there and you
13:33know, did the design of the co-op in
13:35that game affect how you approached it
13:37here? Uh but yeah, definitely there's
13:39definitely influence from um the board
13:40game and also Anthony and I played the
13:43multiplayer mods, multiple multiplayer
13:46mods that were available for the first
13:47game. We've played a bunch of different
13:49multiplayer deck builder roguelike
13:52roguelike deck builder
13:54>> [laughter]
13:55>> games as well. And we have our own
13:56opinion about what is good and bad about
13:58all sorts of online co-op games. Cuz
14:01Anthony and I just play a lot of online
14:03co-op games. We play like at a certain
14:05point, we play like so many. It's It's
14:08actually kind of crazy. Most of them are
14:11open world survival craft type games
14:13just because that's like the most common
14:15genre for online co-op. But, we played a
14:17lot of them. And then when the pandemic
14:19happened, we played like all of them,
14:21like every single one. So, it's kind of
14:23like how much communication is too much,
14:25how much is not enough. There's just a
14:27lot of uh different kinds of aspects. We
14:30were very very influenced by one
14:32specific aspect in a game
14:34Nerts, which is incredible, right? And
14:37that's just you can just see the cursor
14:38of your other friends. And it's just
14:40like, "Oh, like things are happening."
14:41It doesn't feel like I'm interfacing
14:42with a machine that is just moving. It's
14:44like you can see your friends like just
14:46doing the thing. You're in the room
14:48together playing this frantic card game.
14:50So, thank you very much
14:52Zachtronics Games.
14:53Earlier in our conversation, you talked
14:55a little bit about, you know, your
14:56intention to bring one or more new
14:58characters
15:00uh to Slay the Spire 2 over the course
15:01of further development. And
15:04I'm just curious if if you have general
15:06vague thoughts about like the mechanics
15:10or areas or themes you which you might
15:13want to explore there, you know, like
15:15[music] obviously, we
15:16kind of understand that the archetypes
15:18as as they exist now, you know, the
15:19Necromancer and you know, how blocking
15:22and you know, new mechanics available
15:24there and the Regent
15:25a character with two resources, but like
15:28are there any kind of big ideas about
15:30what other areas mechanically are
15:31interesting to you to explore there? Uh
15:33I have thoughts.
15:35But, even Anthony doesn't know what what
15:37those thoughts are. Ooh.
15:39We're kind of competitive when it comes
15:40to the design. We're like
15:42we kind of like propose ideas,
15:43especially for characters which has like
15:45a very exclusive spot. We're like, "I
15:47think this kind of idea is good." And
15:48then we try to form like kind of like
15:50conceptual a conceptual card pool to
15:53kind of try to get an idea what the
15:54character might look like. But, we're
15:56very mechanics first. So, we're not
15:58like, "Hey, we should have a character
16:00that eats a lot of fruit, you know." It
16:01won't just be like, "Oh, it's got to be
16:02a fruit character and how do we make it
16:04work with all this fruit?" Or like, "Oh,
16:05this card is all about a guy who's
16:07customizing a sniper rifle or something,
16:09you know." Um
16:10it's not It's not quite like that. Yeah,
16:13I can't really I can't really say today
16:14just because we have had characters that
16:17we worked on for a good while and then
16:19we were like, "Nah, this isn't going to
16:20work."
16:21We just cut the whole thing. But, we do
16:23want to We do want to increase the
16:25complexity of the new character. And why
16:27I say that is because we have some like
16:30the more kind of like pure characters
16:32already, which is like Silent like
16:35focused on the card draw, but like
16:36doesn't have any kind of like specific
16:38character tied mechanics that are like
16:40inherent. Same with the Ironclad. And
16:43then Regent is a two resource character.
16:45You know, Necromancer is a one summon
16:47kind of like character.
16:48And the Defect is the cookie character.
16:50And that's okay. Because that was our
16:51idea of like, "Why don't we Why don't we
16:53shift away from the vanilla uh for the
16:55first game." So, I think we're probably
16:56going to be looking at a slightly
16:58stranger character than the originals.
17:01>> [music]
17:01>> So, for the for the character. You're
17:03not ruling out a fruit-eating sniper.
17:06I'm not going to
17:07I'm not ruling it out, but I'm not
17:08ruling it in, either.
17:10So, yeah, I obviously right now there
17:12isn't a a true ending at at this stage
17:15of the game's development. You've got
17:16the Architect waiting for you at the end
17:17of successful runs. Just curious if if
17:20you can again generalize, you know, I'm
17:22not expecting you to reveal the future
17:24of the game
17:25like the interesting secrets that will
17:26lie ahead, but like generally, what is
17:28your intention in terms of like what
17:30will lie after the Architect?
17:32Um I do want there to be a better
17:35ending. I think we were a little bit
17:37more burnt out on the first game when we
17:39started working on Act 4 uh and doing
17:42the ending. I do want it to be more
17:43extravagant when you win. And I do want
17:46the showdown to also be
17:47>> [music]
17:47>> a pretty big deal, we'll say. It would
17:49be good to get the character out. Yeah,
17:52I do want the endings to be pretty
17:54pretty serious business. But, they
17:56aren't they aren't too designed at this
17:58time. I wanted to see kind of like the
17:59reaction that people have towards
18:01[music]
18:01the narrative elements to the game that
18:03we've brought in.
18:04I like to see I like to read what
18:06people's theories are on what the
18:08characters are
18:09or if they're good or bad and things
18:12like that. And so,
18:13we kind of, you know, we kind of I'm
18:15just kind of just kind of seeing what
18:16people like, what kind of characters
18:18people are attached to. And while we do
18:20have kind of like a canonical idea of
18:23what is going to happen, um it's we do
18:25make minor tweaks to make sure that like
18:27the ending kind of meets everyone's
18:29expectations and also also a little also
18:32a little curveball, you know, every now
18:33and then. But, in a but positive
18:34curveballs. So, I get the feeling it's
18:37going to take a good while for the
18:38ending to show up just because you know,
18:41we have a
18:42a few other [music] types of content
18:44that we want to make. Uh we want to do
18:45some alternative acts and the
18:47characters. We want to experiment with
18:48the game modes. I think once those are
18:51done, we'll probably think about
18:53finalizing an ending.
18:56I've been seeing lots of fan art. Uh you
18:58know, there there's tons of like in all
19:00in all different languages, you know,
19:02all different characters, you know,
19:03funny stuff, serious stuff.
19:05Um do you have like a single meme or
19:09some fan art that's like really
19:11delighted you uh so far from the
19:13community?
19:15I really like all of the Regent fan art
19:17personally. We spent
19:20I don't know what it I don't know what
19:21it was about this character
19:23and how he changed over time. We had a
19:26pretty difficult time coming up with
19:27this character. We had a lot of
19:29different drawings. I think we redid his
19:30head like 10 times. And at one point, it
19:33just kind of I was just kind of like,
19:35"That's a That's a good That's a good
19:36concept right there." Look at Look at
19:38this guy. And then over time, you just
19:40kind of create a story around
19:42what you expect this person to be like.
19:44And so, I have a strong emotional
19:46attachment to this character. And so,
19:48seeing everyone get it and then make art
19:51around this kind of like character and
19:53personality. Just, you know, he's just
19:55kind of like this stupid guy from space.
19:57And I'm like, "Oh my goodness, this is
19:59this is so funny that everyone gets it
20:01and makes art around it." And they
20:02breathe life into the character in ways
20:04that, you know, that we haven't yet. And
20:06it's just a it's just a joy to see,
20:08yeah. I mean, I'm personally a huge fan
20:10of like a guy who's just reclining in a
20:12big chair going through like a very
20:14challenging series of battles. That's
20:16that's pretty fun. Yeah. I generally
20:18feel that all the characters
20:19are in some way a reflection of like a
20:22certain type of personality that I have
20:24on the inside, you know?
20:26You know, I like to be stupid sometimes.
20:28You can probably tell. I just like
20:29saying things just to get a reaction out
20:31of people. And the region kind of
20:33represents that part of me. So, I'm glad
20:34that people like it instead of being
20:36like, "This guy's a huge asshole."
20:38Cuz if everyone thought he was an
20:39that would mean that So,
20:41everyone thinks that a part of me is a
20:42humongous Uh and they would be
20:44right, but you know, I'd still be
20:46offended. So, but I but I understand
20:48that people can see the intention behind
20:50this buffoonery.
20:52Um
20:53And so, and that and that's really
20:54great.
20:55That's a fabulous answer. I have to know
20:57more about how the head change. How did
20:59the region's head change? Was it
21:00different shapes? Was it like a human
21:02face? What was going on there? He was
21:04like he was like a crystal guy uh first.
21:07He had like a very crystally head.
21:10Um and I was like, "Mhm, kind of just
21:11looks like a
21:13like a you know, like in like sci-fi
21:14games where it's like, 'Oh, these
21:16crystal guys are invading our town.' And
21:18it's like, 'Ah.'" Kind of looked like a
21:19crystal guy invading a town.
21:21Part of a crystal army.
21:23And I was like, "How can we make this
21:24guy feel more like weird royalty or
21:26something?" And then over time, we had
21:28like the throne, the head shape, we had
21:30like different numbers of eyes. I have
21:31like a very strong feeling about
21:34silhouettes. I think every character
21:36should have a very distinct silhouette.
21:37And the region's crystal guy,
21:39I was like, "He could just be like a
21:41like a crystal soldier." And so, I don't
21:44know. Sometimes I don't like to say
21:46these kind of things too much. It sounds
21:47mean to my art director. But you know,
21:49sometimes we're in a hurry to design new
21:51things. Sometimes we're not. And I think
21:53for character we want to spend pretty
21:55serious amount of time thinking about
21:56what the character would be like. And
21:58so, sometimes you just get a shape and
22:00it resonates with you. And [music] going
22:03from like a crystal guy that's just like
22:05wearing a cloak, it's like, "Okay,
22:06there's a guy. That's a silhouette of
22:08like a crystal enemy." To like a guy in
22:10a throne with like a silly like like
22:12star-shaped head to me was like it was
22:14like a huge improvement. Um and it
22:16wasn't it wasn't like one day we just
22:19concepted that. It was like each part
22:21was like very slowly built up. I don't
22:23know, very proud of the design. Some of
22:24the characters we spend much more time
22:26on design.
22:27Uh Necrobinder, I was like, "Mhm."
22:29It was actually um a rejected first idea
22:31of the watcher
22:33uh from the first game. Was I wanted a
22:34character that would like that has like
22:37a big hand
22:38that she puppets. I'm not I'm not
22:40confirming or denying anything about the
22:43Necrobinder being the watcher or
22:44anything. I'm saying from a conceptual
22:45perspective, there was there was a hand
22:48version of the
22:49like a like a monk character way back
22:51when. This is a very different character
22:53cuz it's like a lich and like a hand and
22:55got bones.
22:56Um and her head's on fire. So, she kind
22:58of
22:59she kind of has like Clarissa Knows It
23:01All vibes. I don't think anyone knows
23:03what that is anymore. You know, the TV
23:05series Arthur's face squealer.
23:09Sassy teenager, yeah. So, that was kind
23:11of the original one. We made her a
23:12little bit more serious over time just
23:14because um I think the I think the tone
23:16of the game became a little too
23:17cartoony. And I think people were pretty
23:20upset about that in like in like the
23:21gameplay trailer perhaps. So, we toned
23:24it a little bit more more grim dark over
23:25time.
23:26But that was the original concept. You
23:28can kind of still see her sass
23:30uh in like the merchant. Like her idle
23:31pose is just like hands on hips, which I
23:33think is very funny.
23:36You know, in the two days following the
23:37game's first balance patch, which was of
23:39course a beta,
23:41an optional beta on March 19th, there
23:42was a surprising response uh from some
23:45players. You guys drew more than 13,000
23:48negative reviews on Steam in the two
23:49days that followed after only recording
23:52about like one or 200 negative reviews
23:54each day up until that point. But you
23:57know, part of the context of these
23:58reviews was that they came primarily
24:00from players based in China where online
24:02platform restrictions mean that users
24:04[music] have less access to Discord
24:06channels or Steam community features
24:08that might like be a better venue for
24:10that feedback. But you know, all that
24:11considered, I'm just curious, you know,
24:13what the reaction was within the studio
24:14when you saw [music] this unfolding?
24:18I don't know. I think it depends
24:19[laughter]
24:20on who
24:21uh in the studio just because um I'm
24:24used to like negativity and like harsh
24:25feedback. [music]
24:26Uh and I'm like pretty immune to it. But
24:29some of our other, you know, folks on
24:31the team, right? They weren't with us
24:32with the first game. And I think it was
24:34pretty it was much more extreme than
24:36like any previous types of like negative
24:38feedback, right? Cuz there's a lot of
24:40bandwagoning. It's like a cultural
24:41thing.
24:42I think, you know, it's difficult for
24:44players to feel like they're heard from
24:47the developers. And so, I understand,
24:49you know, why, you know, they choose to
24:52use Steam
24:53and like doing something that would
24:55obviously impact things like um
24:58like visibility in the store and things
25:00like that to try to like portray the
25:01feedback. And so, I don't really I don't
25:03really get like mad to players for doing
25:05like bandwagoning stuff. I think it's
25:07really easy to if you're like a player
25:09in America to be like, "Why don't they
25:11just use these systems?" But I don't I
25:12don't really feel that way at all.
25:14I feel like it's kind of unfortunate
25:16that like they feel that the only way to
25:18be heard is through Steam reviews.
25:20And so, we're like, "Mhm, how can we
25:22improve like
25:23the communication channel between the
25:25game developer and like players in China
25:28who have like a very restricted
25:30communication channel compared to the
25:32other players?" And so, we're trying to
25:34solve that kind of an issue
25:36more than just like you know,
25:38name-calling. That would be that would
25:39be the worst possible thing. I mean, I
25:41don't think there is
25:44I think we're all just people and we all
25:45have different restrictions. So, I never
25:47I don't like to say things like um
25:49Chinese players.
25:51I usually think of people like I would
25:53in my mind I think of like players in
25:55China, right? Cuz they're just they're
25:57in a different place. They're all just
25:58humans. They're all trying to interact
26:00with the game and be heard. Like being
26:03heard is so important.
26:04Um
26:06and so, I don't know. We want to improve
26:07that. We do I mean, we have the same
26:09feedback from the players in the US.
26:12It's just it's just the way they
26:13communicate is just different. And so,
26:16hopefully hopefully we can both uh react
26:19to the things that people like and make
26:20sure that they're happy
26:22with the changes.
26:23And also try to improve the way we talk
26:26to each other, I think. It's kind of how
26:27I feel about it.
26:29Thanks to Casey for speaking with me. If
26:30you want to hear more from Casey and
26:31other members of the Slay the Spire 2
26:33team,
26:34at the end of 2025, we flew to Seattle
26:36and spoke with people from the studio
26:37where they work.
26:38Hope you enjoyed the conversation. And
26:40for all things PC gaming, subscribe to
26:42PC Gamer.

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