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What Daily Life in Heaven Will Be Like (According to The Scientist Who Saw It) — Transcript

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0:00A lot of people don't get that heaven is
0:01not just sitting around looking at God
0:04all day.
0:04>> No, it's doing things you love and
0:06socializing and there's a lot of fun
0:08involved.
0:09>> What we're going to look at today is a
0:10detailed first-hand account of what the
0:13work schedule is like, what recreation
0:15is like, what makes day-to-day life
0:18meaningful.
0:22>> I remember my mother telling me that uh
0:24one time she woke up from a nap and she
0:26could hear [music] this singing, this
0:28beautiful
0:30singing in it.
0:31Blister out.
0:33And then she realized no, there was no
0:36radio on in the house. She was just
0:38hearing some heavenly choir or
0:40something.
0:42But interestingly, that's similar to how
0:43Swedenborg says
0:45we wake up in the afterlife.
0:46>> Then like she like looked around and
0:49there was nothing.
0:49>> Yeah.
0:50>> A little a little bit of uh the next
0:52world kind of
0:53leaking leaking through. Yeah, that
0:55little
0:56hypnagogic state where you're just
0:58waking up.
0:59>> So so many people wonder about that.
1:01>> Actually, people say sorry, I got the
1:02term wrong. I think it's a
1:03Is it hypnopompic when you wake up and
1:06it's hypnagogic when you're going to
1:07sleep? Anyway.
1:08>> Hm, this is above my pay grade. But I do
1:11know that
1:13a lot of people wonder so much about
1:14what what is that like?
1:17What is that world like?
1:19Where do the people we love
1:21what are they doing?
1:22>> they doing? What are they doing? Yeah, I
1:24know it often occurs to me.
1:25>> And you'll get a lot of
1:26>> And other people I'm around. They'll
1:27say, "You know, what what do you think
1:28they're doing?"
1:30>> You get a lot of spiritual experiences
1:31where people get a quick glimpse like
1:33I'm fine or I'm watching you or I love
1:36you or so I'm something, but I don't
1:38know of anywhere you get
1:41what we have in Swedenborg. This was a
1:45guy who not just visited the afterlife,
1:47but extensively
1:50documented it over decades and decades.
1:53>> And published his
1:55findings.
1:56>> What we go we're going to go through
1:57today is not like a quick snippet of
2:00here's the thing, but this is like here
2:02are the universal features of heavenly
2:06life. So, we we we find something that's
2:11got similarities and huge differences.
2:14And I want to start with what is that at
2:15the core?
2:17When you think of why is there a heaven
2:19in the afterlife at all? What is it at
2:21the center of heaven that makes heaven?
2:24The activity of love and faith is what
2:27makes heaven.
2:29This good activity is in every community
2:32of heaven and in every angel of a
2:34community. It does not matter that this
2:36activity is different and distinctive
2:38everywhere. It is still the activity of
2:41heaven.
2:42>> That's interesting and interesting to
2:44refer to faith as an activity. I mean,
2:46you can see what loving actions would
2:48be.
2:50Um
2:51but
2:52>> [snorts]
2:52>> faith
2:54the activity of faith. That's
2:56interesting to think about.
2:57>> What do you take Swedenborg to mean by
2:59that?
3:00>> Swedenborg is so strong on the idea that
3:02love and faith go together that and that
3:04faith is just the the vessel of love
3:07that I think it's
3:08sort of the knowledge about who people
3:11are, how to benefit them, and then the
3:13actions that go with that.
3:15>> So, he would go visit all these
3:17different communities in heaven. He saw
3:19people who were living in tents from
3:22ancient times. He saw cities. He saw
3:25people who were similar [snorts] to him,
3:27people who were very different from him,
3:29from all over the world, but he would
3:30still say, "Oh, no, the all this is
3:33heaven." And the reason it's all heaven
3:37is you got this particular thing driving
3:40it, which is the love for people
3:43and the knowledge or the belief in in
3:45how to do it. There's other features
3:47that are universal across heaven. He
3:49talks about the the Lord is the all in
3:51all of heaven.
3:53Uh but this is always striking to see
3:55that
3:56heaven can be wildly different from one
3:58person to another.
3:59In fact, is is never the same all the
4:02way for any two people. And yet all of
4:04it has love and then truth at the core
4:08of it. He even talks about that
4:09different communities have different
4:11light.
4:13And that's such an interesting I it's
4:14it's almost like different movies have a
4:16different color palette.
4:18So, you go to this community and it's a
4:20warmer tones and then this is more than
4:24blue, purple, and or something. I don't
4:26know.
4:27Yeah, I mean, I got a LED light strip
4:29under my kitchen cabinets and you can
4:31have that thing blasting blue, white, or
4:34like warm and and it definitely changes
4:37the way you feel
4:39>> Yeah.
4:39>> and think. There's all these different
4:41things going on in heaven that that
4:43affect the the nature of the experience
4:45in all these different little units that
4:46he called communities.
4:48>> Yeah.
4:48>> But one thing you'll find everywhere,
4:51whether it's a big community or small
4:53community, or it's
4:55uh you know, high elevation, low
4:57elevation, is that everybody's
4:59happy.
5:01>> Yeah.
5:02>> And everybody's happy
5:03for a particular reason.
5:07He says the core of heavenly happiness
5:09is having something enjoyable and
5:12productive to do with your life.
5:15>> This is so amazing because of the idea
5:18that people have gotten from certain
5:21scriptures. It's certainly been an idea
5:23in Christianity that all the way back to
5:26the Garden of Eden that
5:28now Adams after they get kicked out,
5:31Adams going to have to work really hard
5:32with the sweat of his brow and all the
5:35way to the Book of Revelation where it
5:36says you
5:37you know, you you'll have rest from your
5:39labors. Like this will be so great.
5:41Going to heaven will be about resting
5:43from your labors.
5:44>> But it's not how it works. That that
5:46doesn't actually make people happy.
5:48Having nothing meaningful to do doesn't
5:50actually make people happy. My dad
5:52retired recently. And you know, he
5:54worked a good long career that provided
5:56for all of us. Uh he retired and I think
5:58he was ready to be done that job, but he
6:01like absolutely did not stop doing
6:03stuff.
6:04>> Yeah.
6:05>> Like now he's got this whole thing where
6:06he's like doing all of this volunteering
6:08for this nature preserve and he's
6:09planting things and he's digging things
6:11and he's like busier than he's ever
6:13been. He just gets to choose now to do
6:15whatever he wants.
6:17But he didn't I I and I think most
6:19people it's like this that even even
6:20people who have
6:22a ton of money, they're like, "Ah, man.
6:25I'm going to go start a foundation." or
6:27something. What? People need something
6:29to give their life meaning. Why would
6:31that just change in the afterlife? What,
6:33you know?
6:34>> Yeah. And the the sweat of your brow and
6:36the labors that the Bible's talking
6:38about is actually
6:41the
6:42tension like partly it's the the tension
6:45of just not liking
6:47your work or not wanting to do it or
6:49having to do things you don't like doing
6:51because you have to for a paycheck or
6:54Yeah. You know, for various different
6:55reasons and you're stuck with it. And
6:58those those are the labors that come to
7:00an end, but not you don't sit around
7:03idly.
7:04I know people have read the Bible that
7:06way sometimes that you're just in active
7:08in in activity, but that's not the
7:11not that would not sustain you wouldn't
7:13last a week with that
7:15approach.
7:16>> Let me hit you with a definition here.
7:18This is from Swedenborg's book Love and
7:20Marriage.
7:21Heavenly joy is the pleasure of doing
7:24something that is useful to yourself and
7:27to others.
7:29And the pleasure of usefulness gets its
7:31essence from love and its outward
7:32expression from wisdom.
7:35>> Interesting. And it really is true,
7:38isn't it? That um
7:39I I when somebody's suffered a great
7:42loss,
7:43they often say, "Well, I I I keep busy
7:45because
7:47you know, that that helps you just
7:48concentrate on something outside of
7:50yourself and and you can lose yourself
7:53uh
7:54in a nice way
7:56in just whatever it is. It doesn't
7:59doesn't have to get a paycheck, as you
8:01were saying, but just it's something
8:03that you are doing for others and
8:05thinking about their situation.
8:06>> Paycheck or not paycheck, it's got to be
8:09useful. It's got to be meaningful.
8:11>> Yes.
8:12>> That's what will draw the that's what
8:14changes the nature of it cuz there's all
8:17kinds of different happiness. We're not
8:19talking about this is the only
8:20happiness, but this is the happiness of
8:22heaven.
8:23>> Yeah.
8:23>> Swedenborg talks extensively about it.
8:25There's There's every manner of terrible
8:28thing you can do that can you can enjoy.
8:30There's
8:30>> Sure.
8:31>> uh sort of neutral or frivolous things
8:33you can enjoy
8:34>> Right.
8:35>> for a time, but that's not the happiness
8:37of heaven. That's not the thing on which
8:40uh long-term happiness can rest.
8:44So,
8:46that's what the usefulness is. He He
8:49talks about this in his book True
8:51Christianity.
8:52There are three things that flow as one
8:55from the Lord into our souls.
8:58Love, wisdom, and usefulness.
9:02In usefulness, love and wisdom become
9:04real because then they come together in
9:06some activity and work on the part of
9:08the body.
9:09Where these two come forth into reality,
9:12there they also remain.
9:14>> Mhm.
9:15And when he talked earlier about uh when
9:17Swedenborg mentioned
9:20it was weird that he says
9:21to yourself and to others, like yourself
9:24was first.
9:25Useful to yourself and to others, what
9:27that made me think just now
9:30was
9:31uh
9:31that while you're doing things, part of
9:33what I think is can sustain you
9:36over eternity is
9:38that you get a little better at it. You
9:40incrementally better. It's one of the
9:42most satisfying things in life is
9:44whatever wherever you are
9:46you know, you're playing guitar you you
9:48learn a new chord, you get a little
9:49better at this picking pattern. Uh
9:52whatever it is you that little
9:54incremental growth is what Oh, it's so
9:57you want to tell somebody then.
9:59Oh I got this new thing and when you're
10:01able to
10:02benefit other people so as you're
10:05striving to help people
10:07you figure out another way to
10:10Hey, I figured out a way to help people
10:12who are in trauma or
10:14you know, that's deeply satisfying.
10:17>> Okay, so we got the theory, but let's
10:19get an example. What if you were to go
10:21to heaven and sit on a park bench and
10:25watch a day go by. What is it like for
10:28these people? Here's an example that
10:31Swedenborg gives.
10:33Every morning from the houses and around
10:36the public squares, you hear girls and
10:39young women singing songs of great
10:42sweetness.
10:44The sound fills the entire city.
10:48Each morning the song embodies one
10:50particular feeling
10:52related to spiritual love.
10:55>> [snorts]
10:56>> That is the way the voices sound and the
10:58mode the song is in convey a given
11:01feeling so well that we experience the
11:03song as that feeling itself.
11:07The song flows into our souls as we
11:10listen and stirs in us the feeling it
11:13corresponds to.
11:15>> There's your alarm clock.
11:16>> There's your alarm clock and there's
11:18maybe what my mother was saying when she
11:20woke up from her nap. Uh
11:23what a beautiful thought.
11:26And I know that he goes on to say that
11:27the
11:28the singers
11:30can tell when it's being
11:33more received, like at first maybe not
11:36many people are online yet, so to speak,
11:38yeah, but then they start to wake up and
11:40they connect with the song, and I love
11:42the fact that it's different.
11:43It's not like hearing Big the chimes of
11:46Big Ben when you're in London, it's the
11:49same thing every single day. No, it's
11:51different, it's got a different feeling,
11:52it's like, okay, this is what
11:55this is the mood of this day.
11:57You know, let's let's get this this
11:58started off as a
12:00very uplifting way to start the day.
12:02>> When the song is over, the windows of
12:05the houses around the central square,
12:08and also on the side streets, are
12:10closed.
12:11And then so are the doors.
12:14Silence fills the entire city.
12:17No noise is heard anywhere, and no one
12:19is seen out of doors.
12:21All are then focused on doing the work
12:24that their jobs entail.
12:27>> And what's so interesting to me about
12:29this is that this was written hundreds
12:32of years ago
12:33before any kind of internet or anything
12:36remotely like that, and yet isn't this
12:39describing work from home?
12:41Right, that people
12:44close their doors, close their windows,
12:45like, okay, I'm not
12:48you know, I'm busy
12:49right now, and everybody's on the same
12:52kind of schedule, and so whatever that
12:54work is, he doesn't describe exactly
12:57what they're doing, but you know they're
12:58in there, they're doing something, and I
13:01tend to think that they're actually
13:03maybe connecting with people far away or
13:06doing things, you know, because they're
13:08just as we are now with various digital
13:11tools, we can we can be present in
13:13effect somewhere that we're physically
13:15not, and I I think it may be something
13:18like that, they're getting their work
13:19done.
13:20>> Yeah, that um
13:22people are able to travel
13:25by thought in the spiritual world able
13:28to see and talk to anyone by means of
13:31thinking of them at as you pointed out,
13:33would have seemed like a strange and
13:35absurd thing to people in the 1750s or
13:3960s when Swedenborg released this. But
13:41to us now, it's like, oh yeah, yeah, you
13:43mean Zoom? Is that Yeah.
13:45>> Back then it would take you
13:47could take you months to go from this
13:50part of Western Europe to this part of
13:52Western Europe.
13:53>> [laughter]
13:54>> Yeah.
13:55>> Uh travel was so slow. And so the idea
13:58of mailing things
13:59was so slow.
14:01Uh it would be unimaginable that you
14:03could
14:04have that contact.
14:05>> And so and there's all kinds of
14:07work to We did a whole a show called
14:09Does Your Loved One Have Meaningful Work
14:11in the Afterlife? Where Swedenborg goes
14:13into depth about what kind of
14:16functions people have. I think we just
14:17saw one though in the singing.
14:20>> The singing.
14:20>> The people who start up and and sing
14:23like somebody's job is like, oh yeah,
14:24I'm a I'm a town singer, you know.
14:27>> Yeah.
14:28>> So
14:28>> imagine they put their hearts into it
14:30cuz you're thinking, okay, I feel like
14:32people are getting sort of
14:35a little worn out, you know, let's let's
14:37give them something kind of uplifting
14:39tomorrow morning and yeah.
14:41>> And so people work. They're working all
14:43morning. Um
14:45but
14:47that isn't what you do all the time.
14:51So it's important to um
14:53note that time is different in the
14:56afterlife.
14:58So Swedenborg will talk in units of
15:01earthly time. Like let's say this was
15:02the morning. And he'll use that
15:05language, but elsewhere he'll say
15:06there's time is not fixed like it is
15:08here. So I would think that this means
15:12you know, people are working until
15:15they've got their work done.
15:18So even though we're about to hear what
15:19happens at midday,
15:21um I would imagine that there's some
15:24dilation going on. Someone who's working
15:25on something really important, it may
15:27seem like it's been longer. Somebody
15:29who's got a few things to do, it goes
15:31fast. Um, you know, that that there's to
15:36the the time response to people instead
15:38of the people responding to time.
15:40>> Yeah, that's right. Which is
15:42there's an element of bliss just to
15:44that.
15:46It not having some other thing
15:47dictating, "Now you have to wake up. Now
15:50you have to do this."
15:51And it's striking me what Swedenborg
15:53says about morning. I hadn't thought of
15:54this before in connection with this that
15:57uh the the morning means a state.
16:01It's a It's the state in which your love
16:05is at the highest
16:07level. Like your passion, your your your
16:10drive to do things, or your altruism.
16:14And it verges into the midday when
16:17you're at your greatest state of insight
16:20and clarity.
16:21And so
16:23it strikes me all of a sudden, of course
16:25that's when you
16:27do your work. You know, you you you've
16:28got clarity to move things forward. Like
16:31I can see how this should be. Here, I've
16:33got a new proposal. Let Let's do it this
16:35way. I can see this would be a better
16:37way to do it.
16:38>> So then, once the work is over, he
16:40continues, "At midday, the doors are
16:44opened.
16:45A little later, some of the windows are
16:46opened as well.
16:48Then you see boys and girls playing in
16:51the streets under the supervision of
16:53their caregivers and teachers who sit on
16:56the porches of their houses."
16:58>> And this is not just a all one age
17:03kind of community. He's mentioned that
17:04several times, you know, that the the
17:06ages of the singers and then you have
17:08children.
17:09This is a community, you know, it's got
17:12got young and old there.
17:14>> So that would be children who had died
17:17>> Yeah.
17:18>> in this world. He talks about kids.
17:20Everyone starts in the physical world,
17:23but you can be raised in heaven.
17:25All the people in that community were
17:26once people
17:28in this earth. And so it seems like we
17:29got a couple of other professions here,
17:31teachers, caregivers.
17:33>> Yep. And the children are not sort of
17:35off in some limbo.
17:38They're in a community, they got
17:39friends, they got people who are
17:41watching over them and
17:43that's a great great place to for them
17:45to grow up.
17:46>> On the outskirts of the city, there are
17:49various sporting activities for
17:51teenagers and young adults.
17:54Rec league kind of stuff.
17:55>> That's right.
17:56>> There are games that involve a lot of
17:58running,
17:59games with balls, games with rackets.
18:02There are also
18:03>> Which we might call sports, right? I
18:05mean, this sounds like sports.
18:06>> Well, yeah. So, people people are there
18:08playing pickleball.
18:09There are also contests in the arena for
18:13teenagers in order to see who is quicker
18:15or slower at speaking, taking action,
18:19and perceiving.
18:21Those who are quicker are awarded a
18:22laurel wreath as their prize.
18:25There are also many other activities
18:27designed to bring out young people's
18:29hidden talents.
18:31>> Interesting. Yeah, so you have
18:34sounds like contests or
18:37something where you get evaluated
18:40and
18:42oh, that was that was particularly good.
18:44>> It sounds like the 4th of July the 4th
18:46of July like festivities.
18:49>> It doesn't it doesn't
18:50>> There there's like these little foot
18:51races.
18:52>> Yeah.
18:52>> And where you if you get if you're
18:55in the top three, you get a little
18:56ribbon. And some kids are all like, I
18:59never thought I was a fast runner. I got
19:00this.
19:01>> And it's mostly it's mostly for fun, but
19:04it is rewarding if you look, you know, I
19:06got I
19:07And I got a prize.
19:08>> Interesting like that
19:10many other activities designed to bring
19:12out the young people's hidden talents.
19:15Like how many times do you hear stories
19:16about people who are like, "Well, I
19:17never really thought about it till
19:20I did the I entered just like a little
19:22writing contest and then suddenly now
19:24they're an author, you know?"
19:25>> Right, right. I did an internship and
19:28that they needed me to do this and I
19:29didn't even realize I was good at that.
19:32>> For yet another example, outside the
19:35city, comedies are performed on stage.
19:39The players in them represent the
19:41various honorable and virtuous attitudes
19:44that go to make up a moral life.
19:47For the sake of contrast, some of the
19:49actors will play buffoons.
19:52>> Wow, so this is theater got more of the
19:55arts
19:57represented there.
19:59And comedies, I mean,
20:02I think some people just
20:05think of heaven as a place of sort of
20:06seriousness and
20:08devotion.
20:10>> Yeah.
20:10>> But not that you'd be
20:12kind of getting a kick out of
20:15people acting like buffoons in order to
20:17again highlight a
20:21There's a There's a moral to the story
20:23kind of thing, right? There's a lesson
20:24in it.
20:25>> It seems like it's not just mindless
20:27entertainment. We're trying to compare
20:30and contrast
20:32the good and the true to not. And even
20:35the those contests we talked about, it
20:38it's who's
20:40It's about speaking, taking action,
20:42perceiving, all the things that allow
20:44you to live a useful life.
20:47And the life of heaven, it seems like,
20:49"Yeah, we're having fun now, but the fun
20:51is doing something." Even the fun is
20:53useful.
20:54>> That's right. You're honing your skills.
20:57>> There are festival days here,
21:00which are scheduled by the prince. So
21:02there's a
21:03prince leading his community. Which was
21:05still monarchy still still going strong
21:09in 1700s when Swedenborg was writing.
21:12It's not everywhere, but some
21:14by the prince in order to relieve our
21:15minds of the stress and fatigue that
21:18tends to affect us if we become overly
21:21competitive.
21:23>> Yeah, so people are really striving at
21:25what they're doing and then sometimes it
21:27might get a little
21:28intense or heated or like
21:31I I'm I'm convinced my thing was better
21:33than yours.
21:34>> So, people are still people.
21:36People are still people. Like we have
21:37people in a And this is again just one
21:40community of heaven. There's a million
21:42billion other communities that are
21:43different. But even here it's like yeah,
21:45it seems like it's a lot of very good
21:47things, but people are still people.
21:48People are still needing to like All
21:50right, we got to find out good ways to
21:51work together. We've got to figure out
21:52how to apply ourselves. Like there's
21:54there's still human beings working to
21:57form a more and more perfect union.
21:59On festival days, there is music and
22:01singing in the streets. There are
22:03sporting events and shows outside the
22:04city. In the public square, stages are
22:07set up framed by screens of lattice work
22:09that have grapevines interwoven in them
22:12and bunches of grapes hanging down.
22:14Between these, the musicians sit on
22:16three tiers.
22:18Uh you know, readers of Swedenborg will
22:21note the correspondences there. So, all
22:24all of art in the afterlife is symbolic
22:27has a symbolic meaning to it. Grapes
22:29having to do with spiritual qualities,
22:32three tiers are like the three levels of
22:34the mind or the three heavens.
22:36>> You you wouldn't have
22:37an orchestra
22:39on five tiers.
22:42You know, it's not like bleachers. I
22:44mean,
22:45three is the number.
22:47>> They have all kinds of stringed
22:48instruments and wind instruments that
22:51cover the spectrum from treble to bass
22:53with timbers ranging from soft to sharp.
22:56On either side of the musicians, there
22:58are male and female vocalists who
23:00entertain the audience with excellent
23:02songs and praises in solos and as a
23:04choir.
23:05Now and then during the performance they
23:07will shift to a different type of music.
23:10On festival days entertainment like this
23:12will start early and go all morning.
23:15Then after a break for lunch they will
23:16continue through the afternoon into the
23:19evening.
23:20>> And it's sounds like it's perceived by
23:22the leadership that
23:24this is a great way for people to
23:27let off steam and yet it's still
23:30kind of developing your heart and mind.
23:32You know, it's good for it's not just
23:34mindless you know, it's not like a lost
23:37weekend or something.
23:39You're
23:40you're still
23:42growing and developing.
23:44>> So I think this would be
23:45quite recognizable
23:47to people in in the days when Swedenborg
23:51was writing this.
23:52This is not this is sort of a ideal
23:55version of regular society.
23:57>> Yeah.
23:58>> I as it may seem quaint but that's cuz
24:00it this is
24:01how it was a couple hundred years ago.
24:03So if you extrapolate that to today
24:06>> Who knows? Yeah.
24:08>> Might be like a just a really nice
24:10summer day in San Diego or something.
24:12>> Right. Right.
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24:35show.
24:36>> There's also a lot of learning that goes
24:38on in heaven.
24:40>> Mhm.
24:41>> And it's done in some ways that I feel
24:44like could be a lot more effective even
24:46than how we learn in this world.
24:49In heaven there are constant symbolic
24:51representations of the Lord and his
24:53kingdom.
24:55In fact, every single thing the angels
24:57see represents and symbolizes something.
25:01>> And that might sound sort of religious
25:04and and tedious to people, but
25:06um
25:08Swedenborg, in my view, was someone who
25:10had
25:11quote unquote met Jesus personally. I
25:13mean, he he'd had visions multiple
25:15visions
25:16of the Lord. And to him, what that means
25:18is like the greatest peace and love the
25:21the kind of things that people see in
25:22NDEs when you're overwhelmed by this
25:25presence of love and and knowledge and
25:28forgiveness and mercy.
25:30And so, yeah, that's a wonderful thing
25:33to learn more about.
25:35>> Yeah, the
25:36and the the use of
25:39symbolism, it's almost like symbolism
25:42is the spiritual language in a lot of
25:46ways. I mean, one of Swedenborg's
25:49things he devoted his life to was to
25:51show that the
25:53strangeness of the Bible can be
25:56accounted for by the fact that he said
25:58it's all symbolic, that it is written in
26:01this same language, which would also
26:04explain the strangeness of dreams and
26:07why we're so drawn to the art that we're
26:09drawn to that that to have like visual
26:12metaphor or beyond that convey meaning
26:16is like a a high art form but like a
26:20load-bearing art form. This is how
26:22certain things are communicated. And he
26:24says that everything the angels see
26:27uh symbolizes something. So, there's
26:30information in everything.
26:32>> Mhm. I think there's two there's two um
26:36examples of that.
26:37I mean, the idea of people who are out
26:39in nature and like everything like
26:43every little frame of nature like the
26:45sun rising over the the marsh or the way
26:49a leaf grows out of a tree, that there
26:51are lessons in that and there is
26:55beauty in a message about
26:57resilience or interconnectedness or that
26:59that stuff is always teaching you
27:01something.
27:02And then the other one like when my
27:04grandfather was getting close to dying,
27:08he was this is before I was born but
27:09that he said
27:11to my grandmother when she came in to
27:14see him at one point like oh the nurses
27:16were just doing their representations.
27:18Like that he was seeing
27:19>> Interesting. He was seeing
27:21>> in the pat- that I don't think that the
27:22nurses were aware of. It's just in the
27:24patterns of the way a hospital runs that
27:27that there is like a divine meaning in
27:29the way everything unfolds.
27:31>> Yeah.
27:32>> Yeah, he could see the the symbolism of
27:34these simple actions of bringing in the
27:38the cup with the water and the
27:40um
27:42one thing it makes me think of is the
27:44way that people come back from
27:45near-death experiences with just most of
27:47them with a galloping desire to learn.
27:51So it kind of figures that that world is
27:53sort of learning based. It also makes me
27:55think of the the word rationality
27:59comes from a Latin root
28:02which turns into our word ratio
28:05that's about the relationship between
28:07different things. When you say well
28:09what's the ratio? It means well this is
28:11larger than that by you know it's three
28:13times larger. And so when you're seeing
28:17symbolism you're saying oh
28:20the beauty of a sunset teaches you
28:22something about
28:25glorious things in the in the twilight
28:27of life that compensate for other things
28:30that are you know you know the light may
28:31be diminishing but there's a beauty that
28:34emerges there or um
28:36you know by setting those things side by
28:38side you're you're learning about both
28:41of them.
28:43>> He gives some more detail about this
28:45teaching through imagery.
28:48There are more objects to be seen in the
28:50world of spirits in heaven than can be
28:53listed. Let me tell about the things
28:56that arise directly out of the light,
28:58such as atmospheres, parks, rainbows,
29:01palaces, and houses.
29:03With their outward eyes, spirits and
29:06angels see these items as being so
29:08radiant and alive, so perceptible to all
29:12their senses, that they declare them to
29:15be real and the objects of the world to
29:18be unreal by comparison. Mm.
29:21You mentioned near-death experiences.
29:22That is a very common theme in NDEs is
29:26for people to come back and say, "That
29:28was real. Where I went there was real.
29:30This I One one time in an NDE, someone
29:33said, 'This is like a comic book
29:35compared to that.' But what would make
29:37you feel like this seems pretty real
29:39here, but it's something about the
29:41vividness of your perception and the
29:44meaning of the objects around you. It's
29:46like, "Well, this is This is downtown
29:48reality. We were out in the in the
29:50sticks here."
29:52>> And it's striking that
29:54he's talking about
29:56buildings that are made of light.
30:00Like, that was not a common concept as
30:03far as I know
30:05back in his day. Now we have all these
30:08digital graphics and everything where
30:09you can picture things that are that are
30:12like that. But there again, it's a
30:14feature of near-death experiences that
30:15people even say their own bodies are are
30:18made of light. Ev- Everything's made of
30:20light. You travel on the light and
30:22and uh so it seems that the NDEs are
30:25describing the same world that he saw
30:27hundreds of years ago.
30:29>> He also talks about teaching through
30:30visual scenes.
30:33Amazing sights can be seen by the Lord's
30:36light in heaven. So many of them that
30:38they could never be listed. These sights
30:40consist of one scene after another
30:43representing the Lord and his kingdom.
30:46Resembling scenes described by the
30:48prophets and by John in the Book of
30:51Revelation. There are other symbolic
30:53objects as well. Heaven contains
30:55countless marvels that no one could ever
30:58believe.
30:59>> That's almost like there's um
31:03you're living in an extension
31:05of of the Bible cuz it's it's like the
31:08Book of Revelation. It's like
31:10it operates by the same rules
31:13but you're not confined to those
31:16that limited number of stories that are
31:19in in those books. Well, here's another
31:22example that you're you can walk through
31:24and interact with.
31:27>> Let's talk a little bit about
31:29movement and travel in heaven.
31:31>> Yeah, yeah.
31:32>> So, we mentioned before that there can
31:34be a kind of instantaneous communication
31:36or instantaneous
31:38presence like
31:39>> Yep.
31:40>> I'm thinking about you, you're thinking
31:41about me.
31:42>> Yep.
31:43>> Um but even even distance itself
31:46can be impacted by
31:49your
31:51feelings about your destination. Doesn't
31:53he say that?
31:54>> It's true.
31:56And we experience that psychologically
31:57here, don't we? Where if you're
31:59I don't know if you're
32:01going to some appointment that you're
32:03kind of dreading or some difficult
32:05meeting
32:07you uh
32:08you know, the time just drags where
32:12as if you're
32:13I don't know, you
32:15something you love.
32:17I remember somebody saying how can you
32:20watch um
32:22you know, 13 and a half hours of
32:24football on wild card weekend and they
32:26said, "Oh, easy. Just skip one of the
32:28games."
32:30>> Yeah.
32:31So, so what would be grueling to someone
32:35is like, "Ah, I love this."
32:36>> this.
32:37>> So, in the spiritual world, like that
32:39feeling actually he'll talk about paths
32:41being coming shorter or longer
32:43based on somebody's eagerness or
32:46reluctance to get to a destination. He
32:49talks about instantaneous travel, but
32:51also about flying.
32:53He talks about people coming and flying
32:55to see each other. So, seems like
32:58everything there, including where you
33:01are, is responsive to what's in your
33:03heart.
33:04>> That's right.
33:05Yes, your your state. He talks about
33:08visiting people whose state was vastly
33:10different than his. And sometimes it
33:12would take days and days of just
33:14changing and then changing some more and
33:16then changing some more of this
33:18spiritual travel to get into their
33:20condition to be able to connect with
33:22them.
33:23>> There are days
33:25in heaven. So, there's the you we
33:26already mentioned morning and afternoon,
33:28and but you you brought up that the
33:30morning is the state when you're in
33:33uh
33:34uh you know, enthusiasm and beginning to
33:37understand um that again it's tied to
33:40the psychological state of the people
33:43there.
33:44An interesting um
33:46feature of that is he talks about how
33:48there's no night
33:50in heaven.
33:52But, that doesn't mean there's never
33:55uh
33:55it's it's permanent daylight. Like if
33:57you're above the Arctic Circle,
33:59>> Right.
33:59>> there is something alike night, but it's
34:02not true night because
34:04a total absence of the sun would
34:05correspond to hell, not to heaven, since
34:08the Lord is the sun.
34:10>> Right.
34:11>> But, there are periods of restfulness
34:15or something because angels have
34:17bedrooms.
34:18>> And there's a
34:19kind of twilight. I mean, there's
34:22definitely a time where the
34:24the the the light is is dimmer,
34:28and it's a
34:29time of rest, as you say.
34:31>> Whenever I have talked to angels
34:32face-to-face, I have been with them in
34:34their houses. Their houses were just
34:36like the houses on earth that we call
34:38homes, but more beautiful.
34:40They have chambers, suites, and bedrooms
34:43in abundance, and courtyards with
34:45gardens, flower beds, and lawns around
34:48them.
34:48>> Mhm.
34:49>> Gardens.
34:49>> But, I think the thing that makes heaven
34:52heaven
34:53uh
34:54if you had to put something alongside
34:56the usefulness, the use that you're
34:57doing, it's the relationships that you
34:59have.
35:00That that you are not just around some
35:02people in this community I don't know,
35:04they work in the morning, I work in the
35:06morning, I say hi to them sometime.
35:07These are people that you absolutely
35:09love.
35:10So, this is Swedenborg talking a little
35:12bit about the relationships in heaven.
35:15Kindred souls gravitate toward each
35:17other spontaneously, as it were. For
35:20with each other, they feel as though
35:21they are with their own family at home.
35:24When they are with kindred souls, they
35:26enjoy the fullest freedom, and find life
35:29totally delightful.
35:31>> Mhm. That's that is great.
35:34Any one of these things that you're
35:35describing could really
35:38sound it heavenly all all by itself.
35:41This idea of just finding people, cuz
35:44sometimes in this world, even if you
35:46live in a very populous city, you can
35:48feel a little bit like
35:50I don't know where my
35:51my people are. Where Where are other
35:53people who like the same kind of things
35:55that I like?
35:56Uh where are people I can connect with?
35:58And the idea of being
36:00somewhere, and by the way, I sometimes
36:04forget this, but these communities are
36:06constantly increasing and never
36:08diminishing
36:09>> Right.
36:10>> in size. You got new people coming in
36:11all the time.
36:13So, oh, I knew everybody Oh, but here's
36:15some new people, and the new people are
36:16adding interesting dimensions.
36:18>> Yeah, so the city that we were reading
36:21about before with the singing in the
36:23Those people didn't all just happen to
36:25be there together. We're like, "Hey,
36:27there's an open condo here. I'm going to
36:29buy it."
36:29>> Yeah. It's just like the the deepest
36:31love of their hearts
36:34pulled them together because they're
36:36whatever they're doing in that community
36:37corresponds totally with what they love,
36:40what the purpose of their life is. So,
36:42so the other people in that community,
36:44you just feel like "I love these people.
36:47These are my people. I know these
36:49people." So much so that Swedenborg will
36:50say, "It feels like you've known them
36:53since childhood, even if you're just
36:54meeting them for the first time."
36:55>> Yeah.
36:56Yeah, you just
36:57I don't know if you have that experience
36:59sometimes. Sometimes I've seen somebody
37:01on on TV or or
37:04you know, social media, whatever, and
37:05you feel like
37:07I don't know, I relate or
37:09I I feel like I know this person
37:11already. They seem so familiar. Their
37:13their spirit, the things that delight
37:15them up.
37:16>> It applies as well, and even more so, to
37:20spouses.
37:22He says, "The attributes of heavenly
37:23marriage love are innocence, peace,
37:27tranquility, deep friendship, full
37:30confidence, and a desire in heart and
37:32soul to do everything good for each
37:35other.
37:36And from all these things come
37:38blessedness, happiness, joy, passion,
37:42and from the eternal enjoyment of these,
37:44heavenly bliss."
37:47"The nature of love is that it wants to
37:48communicate with another whom it loves
37:50from the heart.
37:52Indeed, it wants to give the person joy
37:55and obtain its own joy from doing that."
37:58>> I think a lot of people have the idea
38:00somewhere in their psyches that there
38:02may be one
38:04you know, the love of your life,
38:07right?
38:08The idea of of
38:11>> someone you love above
38:13everyone else.
38:14>> Well, they you know, it's like all the
38:16fairy tales and like if there's
38:17>> Yeah.
38:18>> Like people will complain a lot about
38:19well, it doesn't work out for everyone,
38:21it doesn't But I think the idea of like,
38:23ah, you're you're falling for them,
38:25they're falling for you. Uh, you find
38:27your soulmate. Like, nobody doesn't like
38:28that. Nobody doesn't like that. When
38:30everybody will thinks that that would be
38:32cool.
38:32>> Yeah.
38:33>> And so, I think
38:36Swedenborg is
38:37maybe alone among Christian theologians,
38:41uh, or maybe I've I'd saying that not
38:43only can marriage continue
38:47in the afterlife, but that it
38:48continually
38:50improves and can continually grow as a
38:53container for more and more joy. That
38:55it's like a
38:56the principle of heaven, it's the
38:58smallest unit of that.
39:00>> Yes, that's right. And so, he makes it
39:02central.
39:03Other people have talked about, well,
39:04this love of God that's central, or it's
39:07loving your neighbor that's the central,
39:10you know, from the two great
39:11commandments.
39:12>> Right. But
39:13>> Swedenborg has this particular
39:17bond.
39:18>> Yeah.
39:19>> This pair bond, you know, is at the
39:20center of the,
39:22of the way things work in heaven. There
39:25was a wonderful book
39:26years ago by Colleen McDannell and
39:28Bernhard Lang called uh, Heaven
39:31um, a history.
39:33And it was a history of different views
39:34of heaven, whether they were literary or
39:38people's experiences, you know, Dante's
39:40Inferno, whatever, and and gave two
39:43chapters to Swedenborg and faced some
39:45criticism for doing that. And Bernhard
39:47Lang told me, um,
39:49he thinks there should have been four
39:50because Swedenborg's heaven was so
39:54unique.
39:56>> Yeah. The activity of, oh, I want to,
39:59what's it say? I will give this person
40:01joy and obtain my own joy from doing
40:03that. That is the activity of love and
40:05faith. So, this is just where you get to
40:08practice it in its fullness. This is
40:10essentially like, everything I do
40:15is going to be for you.
40:17>> Yeah.
40:18>> Which which is important for heaven
40:20because one thing that you can't have in
40:23the happiness of heaven is yourself as
40:27the object of your own efforts. That
40:29doesn't lead to if it's like, well,
40:31yeah, I've got I've got um this great
40:33situation in heaven where I'm doing this
40:36awesome job. I've got this awesome and
40:38what's it for? It's like so that I can
40:41be happy. That doesn't That that leaves
40:43something
40:45um
40:45you haven't quite reached your
40:47destination. But to be able to say the
40:49better that I get and that my life gets,
40:52I know that that's going to make
40:53>> Yeah.
40:53>> your life better and that there's
40:54mutually That's an important part of the
40:56circuit because that's that's how God
40:59is.
41:00That's how God is toward the human race.
41:01We we even talk about the marriage of
41:05God and the human race
41:07>> That's right.
41:07>> that it's that is sort of the grandest
41:09version of it. So, in this system of
41:13like, oh yeah, well, you get somebody
41:15where it's your
41:16you're trying to make them as happy as
41:18you can and you you love that. That's
41:21you getting to live the life of God. You
41:23have a easy sort of outlet for that for
41:26God's life.
41:29Speaking of God,
41:30there's plenty of communing with God,
41:34connecting with God through the the
41:36enjoyment of the kind of love God
41:37enjoys, but also
41:39um
41:40sometimes
41:42just directly like you'd think. Like
41:45hey, it's God. There you are.
41:47This is from Emanuel Swedenborg's Heaven
41:48and Hell. When the Lord renders himself
41:51present in any particular community, so
41:53we're talking about Jesus like Jesus God
41:56is a human showing up, the divine human.
41:59His appearance depends on the nature of
42:01the good activity that community is
42:03engaged in.
42:04>> Which differs from one community to the
42:06next.
42:06>> It is therefore not exactly the same in
42:08one community as in another.
42:11It is not that this difference is in the
42:12Lord.
42:14It is in the individuals who are seeing
42:15him from their own goodness and
42:18therefore in keeping with it.
42:20They are affected by the sight of him
42:22according to the quality of their own
42:24love.
42:26>> God actually looks a little different in
42:28these not just the light
42:30but God is perceived in different ways
42:33even though it's the same.
42:35There's a oneness behind the whole thing
42:37but it's
42:38but you perceive things that
42:41I I love the divine strength and another
42:43person loves the creativity and another
42:45person loves
42:46>> Right. And how
42:47>> qualities, yeah.
42:48>> how you're impacted by seeing God
42:51is this sort of more about how you are.
42:54Like this this is what your recept you
42:56know what moves you about the divine.
43:00Another
43:01major feature of heavenly life is this
43:04uniting of the out
43:06side with the inside. And we talked
43:08about it a bit that things around you
43:10mean something to the feelings and
43:12thoughts you have within you. This is
43:14from True Christianity.
43:16All who become angels carry their own
43:18heaven deep within themselves.
43:20>> Mhm.
43:20>> Because their love is the love that
43:22constitutes their heaven.
43:25We were all created to be a miniature
43:27form, an image, and an emblem of the
43:29heaven that exists on a grand scale.
43:33So you are supposed to be the like gift
43:36shop version
43:38of how you know you go through the
43:39aquarium and you just saw a bunch of
43:40sharks and you can go to the gift shop.
43:42There's a teeny [laughter] little
43:43plastic shark. That's us.
43:46We're the teeny little plastic heaven.
43:47>> And it's such a profound teaching that
43:49if you
43:51don't have that, if you don't love that,
43:54if you don't like that in yourself
43:56you're not going to be comfortable
43:59in that environment. What makes heaven
44:01is that it's a whole series of people
44:03each of whom
44:04is a heaven in miniature.
44:08That is what the human form is.
44:10Therefore, all who are miniature forms
44:13of heaven come into some actual
44:15community of heaven.
44:17When they enter that community, they are
44:19entering a form that corresponds to
44:21themselves.
44:22Therefore, it is as if they are going
44:24from themselves into a community that is
44:27already actually inside them.
44:30Forming a connection between the
44:31community outside and the community
44:33within.
44:35And making the community's life their
44:36own and giving their life to the
44:38community.
44:40Every community of heaven is like an
44:42aggregate whole and the angels of that
44:44community are like individual yet
44:47similar parts that together make up that
44:50whole.
44:51>> Brings two things to mind. One is um
44:54Jesus saying, I go to prepare a place
44:56for you.
44:58So, we don't know
45:00where that is, but we're seeking
45:03something. But we don't know exactly how
45:06to
45:07get there or or what that is.
45:09But
45:10there's a power greater than ourselves
45:13that
45:14knows where we belong and is developing
45:16us to be ready
45:18to be a part of that community. It also
45:21makes me think is it isn't it um
45:23U2 that has a song still haven't found
45:27what I'm looking for.
45:28>> That was my class song.
45:30>> Wait, you have like a class song when
45:32you I don't know if every school does
45:33this. When you graduate, uh y'all sing
45:35it at the end and is it that was our
45:37class song.
45:37>> That's a great song and I think so many
45:41people can relate. I can certainly
45:42relate to that sense of
45:44you've been looking for this thing
45:45forever, but you still haven't found it.
45:47What does it feel like when you find it?
45:50>> And also I I I think that that that it's
45:53it's you you finding the heaven out
45:56there that's the same as the heaven in
45:57you. That is a
46:00cuz if you don't have that
46:02it can seem like why does God have to
46:04impose this heaven and hell thing from
46:08the outside after death? Why don't you
46:10just And why don't you just do it here?
46:12Why don't you just make this heaven?
46:13>> Yeah.
46:14>> But that's not That's like sort of the
46:16traditional idea of heaven and hell.
46:18It's like you go there and God has
46:19fenced off two areas and you can even
46:22sticks you in heaven, you're happy. If
46:24he sticks you in hell, you're unhappy.
46:26And so he that's just And that's just
46:27how he's running the afterlife. But the
46:30the heaven and hell Swedenborg describes
46:31is This is
46:33This is
46:34what's in you already. Like we eat make
46:37ourselves into a miniature heaven if we
46:40live the life of heaven. If we love
46:42usefulness, if we have uh our communion
46:46with the divine and with the people that
46:49we love. That That you could look with
46:51some kind of spiritual, spectral
46:54microscope and see written into your
46:57spirit. Like, "Oh, yeah, that heaven is
46:59there." Like the way that your mind and
47:01and heart work, there's a heaven there.
47:04And this is just about putting you where
47:07you are. It's like where you already
47:09belong.
47:10You you are It's just It's just a place
47:11where you
47:13are surrounded by what you vibe with.
47:16That's all that heaven and hell is. And
47:18it's just you vibing with people that
47:20are like you. That's what it comes down
47:23to. And And heaven is a It's a It's a
47:27fundamentally human thing.
47:29It's a
47:30It is It is about getting up and trying
47:34to figure out how to do useful things
47:35for people and working hard at it. It is
47:38about relaxing and having relationships
47:41with each other. It's about beauty and
47:43knowledge. It's all the things that we
47:46strive for and interact with here. They
47:47don't evaporate or mean nothing. Uh
47:50those are the building blocks and heaven
47:52is just them arranged in the right
47:54order.
47:55>> So here we may be going through a
47:58a grind maybe miserable sometimes and
48:01and you the alarm goes off when you
48:03don't want to get up and then you go to
48:05a job you may or may [snorts] not like
48:07or feel fulfilled by and and you're
48:10looking for somebody but you haven't
48:12found them and and it can feel like what
48:16what is the point and you're
48:18this this got to be way better than than
48:20this.
48:22The beauty is that this is actually
48:25a good preparation for that in ways that
48:28we can't see.
48:30And it's getting ready you getting you
48:32ready for a better
48:34version with a better alarm
48:37better work surrounded with people you
48:39love and really finding a full
48:43deep profound kind of fulfillment
48:45connecting with a sense of like this is
48:48where I belong their people who love
48:51what I contribute and I love
48:52contributing to it I love them and
48:54they're so great and
48:56and um
48:58so
48:59I love
49:01Swedenborg's heaven like it
49:03it sounds heavenly to me and it fits
49:05with near-death [music] experience so
49:07many near-death experiences.
49:09Um
49:10I think that's something to look forward
49:13to and and uh
49:15if we hang in there
49:17for
49:18little longer we can meet on the other
49:20side.

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