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What D'Angelo Was REALLY Like — A Heartfelt Interview with Toni Hunter Davis — Transcript

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0:00Uh-uh. [clears throat] Can I talk?
0:05>> Hi, Tony. Um, again, my name is Amamira.
0:09Um, I want to express my sincerest, uh,
0:14thoughts and prayers to you and your
0:15family during this time. Um, you know,
0:18D'Angelo was, you know, a music marvel
0:21that the world just wanted to keep hold
0:24of, but, you know, uh, we're now seeing
0:28in today's time and after his his
0:31passing how much of a a vessel of
0:35healing his music truly was to us. Um,
0:39and I hope through this conversation we
0:42get to talk about who not only D'Angelo
0:44was musically, but the D'Angelo Michael
0:48who we didn't get to experience and who
0:51we didn't get to see. Um, so with this
0:54conversation, I really uh pray to bring
0:56on healing for not just myself, but also
0:59for you because I know how important it
1:01is as sisters that we, you know, have
1:04safe spaces to talk. um especially in
1:07morning, we want we need to have that
1:08sense of support for one another. Um so
1:12that's what I plan for this conversation
1:14to be um a safe circle for us to you
1:18know reflect on the remembrance of our
1:21dear brother. So um whenever
1:23>> thank you so much I just want you I just
1:26want to say thank you for just offering
1:29me your space and your platform. Um, I
1:34was really impressed by the demeanor
1:38that you initiated with
1:42and I just um I don't really have I
1:46didn't have anything that I felt must be
1:49said must be you know I just felt
1:52close to you
1:54being as though you know you are we're
1:59both black women and we are both in
2:02space where
2:04um we feel like something has been taken
2:09that we had
2:11I don't want to say ownership because
2:14you know music is a thing to be shared
2:17but we all considered pieces and parts
2:21of
2:24Michael and you know as an artist
2:27D'Angelo we
2:30considered it our own. So I just felt
2:34like it was I was moved to talk to you
2:37because I just thought that
2:41your you know your introspect was worthy
2:44of it.
2:45>> So I appreciate that. Uh I definitely
2:49didn't want to come off as someone who
2:52was not being considerate of the time
2:54and I think that can that you know you
2:57run the risk of that you know just you
2:58know having to be a go in your community
3:02you know someone who archives our
3:03stories
3:04>> sometimes you have to do those hard
3:06questions and
3:08>> and you know just reaching out but I'm
3:10glad that you have such a a receiving
3:13spirit and that you were able to see me
3:16and through my intention in the best
3:19way. So, uh, I love how you said that it
3:24wasn't he his his work, his life wasn't
3:27something that was taken from us, but,
3:29um, because we don't have ownership of
3:31it. But
3:34D'Angelo
3:36in the last 30 years or at least the 30
3:38years of my life um has been such a gem
3:43um with his music, his lyrics, his you
3:47know interviews, the the gems that he
3:48drops there. It's just you know he was
3:51such a marvel to our culture um and and
3:55definitely pleasant to learn from. And I
3:58don't even know this man. So, [laughter]
4:01it's just like
4:02>> No, you do not.
4:04>> I don't know this man. But it's like,
4:07man, um I had to reach out to you
4:10because I seen your post about um you
4:13know, just your response to everything
4:15and you sharing a connection with not
4:17only him but Angie, you know, that that
4:20sisterhood uh that I picked up on and it
4:24was just like, man, you you remind me a
4:26lot of the women that I have in my life
4:29that, you know, no matter what, you
4:32know, when all else fail, I don't want
4:33to see you fail. I don't want to see you
4:35in a position where, you know, you're
4:37down and I'm up. So, I'mma come with you
4:39and we going to do this together. That's
4:41what I read when you, you know, spoke
4:43about um Angie and you made her a
4:45tribute post to her. Like, girl, don't
4:48even worry about it. I got the kids. We
4:50going to do like I'mma I'mma figure this
4:51out. Um I really love that about you
4:54because, you know, I come from a home
4:56that is like we have blended families. I
4:58got two stepmoms, a stepdad, you know,
5:00so I come from that and that's very
5:02important, you know, having that that
5:04spirit of togetherness when it comes to
5:06blended families. And I just felt that
5:09uh virtually through you and and it just
5:10prompted me to ask, you know, you mind,
5:13you know, just giving me the real
5:15straight up on what's, you know,
5:16>> yeah, you know, we are people of the
5:18earth. So we have always run in
5:22community.
5:23>> Yes.
5:23>> We have always um relied on each other.
5:27We have always needed a village to raise
5:30our children. So, it was nothing foreign
5:34to
5:35me to receive Angie. And it really was
5:40her receiving me, you know. She I
5:43reciprocated what she extended.
5:47You know, um
5:50people will like to see women. Well,
5:54certain people would like to see the,
5:58you know, catty hierarchy of how women
6:01interact when it comes to
6:04a specific man or anything like that.
6:08But
6:12I mean, it just takes so much more to
6:14hold that type of thing up. And it's so
6:18much easier if you are working in a
6:22collective um mindset. It's so much
6:26easier.
6:28So [sighs and gasps]
6:30I would say that
6:34it was just it was just what was needed.
6:37>> It was just what was needed.
6:40>> And like I said, she initiated it. Now,
6:44that's not to say that I mean it's it
6:47wasn't always kumbaya. [laughter]
6:49You know, we had, you know,
6:54we've had years to get to this point.
6:58We had years to get to this point.
7:01>> And so it and it took exactly all the
7:04years that it did.
7:06>> Um and everything is not
7:12what do you say? everything still isn't
7:14with, you know, the the two of us that
7:19are left.
7:20>> Mhm.
7:20>> You know, it's not it's it's very
7:23surface in that direction, but we have
7:26respect for the children and we respect
7:29each other so that they can see
7:33that.
7:34>> Yes.
7:35So a lot of times, you know, children
7:38can pick up more than what parents think
7:42they can.
7:43>> Um,
7:45however,
7:49it is what it is. It's still a situ, you
7:52know, it's still that type of situation.
7:55>> I know [clears throat]
7:55>> if you can read through the lines.
7:57>> Yes, ma'am. Yes.
7:59>> You know what I mean? So, um I'm just
8:02very thankful that she
8:05was the individual that she was
8:08because I am a mirror.
8:13>> I am a mirror for whatever the
8:17interaction is.
8:20If you give me sugar, I'll give you
8:22honey.
8:23>> I know that's right.
8:24>> You know what I means? But [laughter]
8:26and then it goes the other way around.
8:29So, I try I try to keep it on the even
8:32plane, especially um I've always been
8:35that I've always been a little bit wiser
8:38than my years. I've always
8:42wanted to understand the deeper line of
8:44things.
8:46So, I felt like that journey
8:49with her
8:51was a conduit to learning, a conduit to
8:55wisdom.
8:57You know, we taught each we taught each
8:59other things. You know, we talked on the
9:02phone. Like I was the only one that she
9:05could call that knew what she was going
9:06through in a certain direction, in a
9:08certain realm of things
9:11>> in collaboration with
9:14our son's father.
9:16>> Mhm.
9:17>> It was rough. It's not It's no in no way
9:20easy. You know, he's very much a
9:22musician. He's very much the genius that
9:24he is. He's very much um
9:31a revolutionary.
9:34>> He's very much all of those things.
9:37>> However, that's probably only 30 or 40%
9:40of what he is and what he and what he
9:44showed us.
9:46>> I think that's a wonderful segue into
9:49the first question.
9:51>> Okay. The world sees this musical genius
9:54D'Angelo,
9:55but you [laughter]
9:56and everyone else, you guys see what the
10:00world doesn't see.
10:01>> So, when the lights are all off, the
10:05curtains are closed, who
10:08was Michael D'Angelo to you?
10:15>> He was he was very much inside himself.
10:18Um, but he would he could be funny,
10:22he could laugh,
10:25and he could relax, but it just took him
10:29one thing one thing that I I remember
10:32learning about him early on
10:35is that he knew what he required.
10:41I learned that because as as girls and
10:45growing up into women, we are taught to
10:48please and assimilate and
10:52be nice and be polite and you know and
10:56that's the way I was raised. That's the
10:58way I
11:02uh
11:06just that was my demeanor.
11:11I was raised by southern women. So it
11:13was like be nice, be sweet,
11:16>> say thank you and please and you know
11:19>> and don't demand don't you know and he
11:23taught me all otherwise
11:27taught me that there was always a way
11:30some if I said somebody said well you
11:33can't do this and you can't do that and
11:35why you know you have to do it this way
11:38he taught me that no you don't
11:42So I think the the total experience with
11:46him,
11:49it taught me to push
11:52taught me to push.
11:55And it's not like I didn't have that
11:56before, but socially, you know,
12:01girls and boys are raised differently.
12:04>> And I love the fact that he always knew
12:06what he wanted.
12:09It was not appealing all the time.
12:15>> It was not appealing and it was not
12:18convenient for anybody but him.
12:23>> Period. And I mean in every aspect
12:28>> like
12:31[laughter]
12:32he would just give you he would he would
12:34give you a hard time. He would give you
12:36and then you know when you're soft and
12:40sweet and he come on come on come on can
12:43we do can we do can't can
12:45[clears throat]
12:46you do this to me can you do and you
12:49would you would I would give in every
12:51time because it would be like well I'm
12:56the only one
12:58here
12:59>> and that's one thing that I kind of was
13:01for him a lot of the times was I was a
13:05barrier between
13:08a public setting
13:11and him.
13:14So like I could go and do things that he
13:17would rather not do because it was a lot
13:21for him to carry at times
13:25>> and he didn't want to always
13:29he wasn't always prepared for that.
13:32And so part of that fed me because I
13:35felt needed.
13:37>> Right.
13:39>> So um you know black women that's that
13:42there's nothing special about that story
13:44honestly
13:46>> because there are women legions of women
13:49who do that every day.
13:51>> Yeah.
13:52>> They forsake themselves
13:55for the happiness of someone else. They
13:57set themsel on fire to keep somebody
13:59warm.
14:00>> Yeah. Now, what did that do for you uh
14:05being
14:06a partner to D'Angelo
14:10>> experiencing that and knowing that you
14:14know I'm pretty sure like it at what
14:16point in the relationship was it like a
14:18eye openener like wow this is how things
14:20are going to be like did you expect that
14:22going into the relationship what was
14:24your
14:24>> no no I didn't I didn't expect that
14:27going into the relationship I mean
14:29honestly it was like
14:32it was like, you know, sweep me off my
14:34feet type of thing. You know, I'm a girl
14:36who
14:38>> did not my father died when I was seven,
14:40but I did not even grow up with my
14:43father.
14:44>> So, it wasn't something, you know, I
14:46didn't have that male
14:49presence.
14:51So when
14:53I was 19
14:55>> and I met him,
14:58>> that was like one of the first times
15:00that I was like, "Oh, it's a, you know,
15:02the male presence, you know, opening a
15:04door, uh, walking to your side of the
15:08car, holding a door for you, you know,
15:10please, thank you, pardon me, type thing
15:13that I had ever I had never seen that."
15:15Now I had male figures like a uncle who
15:19raised me or whatever but I'm talking
15:21about in that capacity
15:24in that
15:26um
15:28>> romantically and
15:30>> romantically romantic relationship that
15:33type of connection I had never seen
15:37because I mean
15:42you know when you're in high school
15:43you're dealing with boys. Mhm.
15:46>> And when you get out of high school, you
15:47know, I would at the time I was in
15:49college
15:52and you get out of high school and you
15:54start
15:56>> see [laughter]
15:57>> it's a way different. You start you
15:59start dealing with men who act like boys
16:03or men who act like men or stuff like
16:06that. So that was and honestly with me
16:10not having the blueprint of the way it
16:13was supposed to supposed to go,
16:18>> I was kind of wide open for whatever was
16:21handed to me,
16:22>> right?
16:24>> And a lot of women, again, it's not
16:30a strange story.
16:33>> Every woman that you meet has this
16:35story.
16:36Yeah.
16:37>> And it was the same thing for me. You
16:40know, I found myself sacrificing a lot.
16:45>> I found myself willing to gamble, you
16:48know, um the betterment of myself for
16:53being chosen by him
17:00>> and for a time and all of it was all of
17:04it was my choice. I was never under
17:05duress. I was never. You understand? We
17:08have to take we have to take
17:10responsibility for the actions and the
17:12things that we allow
17:14>> and how we allow people to treat us.
17:18>> Yes.
17:18>> So, in no way is this a woe is me and
17:21all, you know, it
17:23>> it's none of that.
17:26It's none of that.
17:28Um, it was a learning experience.
17:32I wouldn't change it for the world.
17:36Because I say this all the time. All the
17:38lessons that I learned with Michael,
17:40there's not a man on this earth could
17:41who could have taught me those lessons.
17:45>> Only he could have because
17:50I respected him so much.
17:54>> I loved him so much.
17:59So, you know, the things that I gamble,
18:02the things that I risk, the things that
18:04I, you know, the opportunities that I
18:06may have
18:10went against.
18:13It was the price that I was willing to
18:15pay.
18:16I just respect the authenticity that
18:20you're giving me right now because you
18:23could have easily romanticized
18:26the whole dynamic
18:28but
18:29>> well a lot of it was a lot of it was I
18:32mean oh my gosh it was if I go into the
18:35into the love story of what it was it
18:38was all of that
18:40>> and many times we women we get
18:44>> we get
18:48complacent and we don't
18:51we don't think with wisdom. We think
18:54with our heart and there's nothing wrong
18:56with going with your heart. There's
18:58nothing wrong with that.
19:01>> Um,
19:03and like I said, I wouldn't change it
19:04for the world. It was all the romance.
19:07>> It was the thick of the romance. It was
19:10everything that
19:14you could imagine.
19:16>> Wow.
19:17>> And it was beautiful. At one point in
19:19time, it was a beautiful thing. And that
19:23is what makes me, you know, none of it
19:26was happen stance.
19:27>> Mhm.
19:29>> None of it was happen stance. None of it
19:31was, oh well,
19:35it just it just happened like that.
19:39It was beautiful. Um,
19:41>> how did you guys meet? So, you said you
19:43were in college. I [laughter] I just got
19:45to ask because I just feel like the
19:49spirits is there's a reason why the two
19:52came together. So,
19:53>> well Well,
19:57we met twice.
20:00The first time Mike says [clears throat]
20:02he doesn't remember
20:03>> because he was high. Um,
20:08the first time we met was in Shaco
20:11Bottom in Richmond, Virginia
20:14>> near the flood zone. The flood zone was
20:16a club that that night the roots was
20:19playing there
20:21>> and
20:23I don't remember if it was near
20:25homecoming. I don't remember. I don't
20:27remember what, but it was 96
20:32>> and me and a bunch of my girlfriends I
20:33went to VCU. Okay.
20:37>> And my girlfriends where I went, they
20:39went to Virginia State.
20:42So, it was about six of us.
20:45And I remember it was this girl we call
20:48Pocahontas. It was a girl named Peaches.
20:51Was a girl named Ordney.
20:54Who else? I think
20:56>> nicknames are so 90s, by the way.
20:58>> Yes. 90s.
21:00>> Yes. Yes. Poker. We would call her PA
21:03cuz she would have she had long braids.
21:07>> And Pa, she sang. She was a singer. See,
21:10I'm not the singer. I'm a dancer.
21:12>> Okay.
21:13>> So, I'm not the singer. So, none of that
21:16really
21:18I don't really care. I mean, I love
21:19music, but
21:21I was not the singer,
21:23>> right? And so we was I think
21:28everybody everybody was letting out of
21:31the flood zone
21:34and Poco was losing her mind and I was
21:38like why is she why are you acting like
21:40that? She was like oh my
21:44>> it's him it's him and I'm like
21:46who are you talking about? Like what is
21:49going on?
21:50>> Well I'm a Capricorn. Mhm.
21:53>> Very bold. I'm very calm. I'm not doing
21:55all this jumping up and down. And I was
21:57like, what is the problem? Why can't you
22:00just walk up and say
22:03hello or I love your work or something
22:06like that?
22:07>> Mhm.
22:08>> And um
22:11you really want to be on this?
22:13[laughter]
22:14Stop doing this to me. This is my baby.
22:18[laughter]
22:19Can you let me go? Oh,
22:24>> I love you. Where you going?
22:32[laughter]
22:33>> So,
22:37>> Oh, okay. They're going to carve a
22:39pumpkin.
22:40>> Oh, that sounds fun. Very festive.
22:45>> Right now, I'm on the phone, so I can't
22:48have a conversation about that.
22:50[clears throat] M
22:51>> um
22:53>> so I walked up to him
22:56>> and I you know I at this point I'm being
23:00>> I'm like how you doing? I said my name
23:01is Tony. I said listen um I really would
23:05appreciate if you could meet my friend
23:07Pocahontas. I said she sings and
23:08everything but she's really a big fan of
23:10yours. And
23:13his eyes was closed and he was the
23:16coolest dude you could ever see.
23:20and he was just like, "What's up?" And
23:22so he grabbed my hand
23:25>> and I introduced him to Pocahontas and
23:28he would never let my hand go.
23:30>> Wow.
23:32>> And so
23:35we was standing there and I'm
23:37introducing him as if I know him
23:42>> and
23:44she talked to him. She was smitten and
23:47and it was that
23:50>> that was the first time.
23:53Now
23:55I worked in a nightclub
23:59and him, his cousins
24:03and his brother Rodney came in
24:07and when he walked in,
24:09you know, this club was frequented by
24:12white people.
24:13>> Mhm.
24:15and I was at work and he was like he
24:19just walked in as if he knew he was
24:22coming in
24:23>> and I I looked at his face and I said in
24:26my mind I will never forget this. I
24:29said, "Who is this?" Like I It didn't It
24:32didn't click
24:34>> until I was like He was like, "What's
24:37up?" And he said, "What you doing in
24:39here?" And I was like, "I'm working."
24:42>> Say, "Yo."
24:43>> And he said,
24:46"You know, what you doing in here?" And
24:50I said,
24:52and he was like,
24:54"Let me get your number." And I was
24:55like, "No, I don't know you."
24:58Hey, put that down.
24:59>> And then
25:01>> he was like, "All right." And then he
25:03goes and he sits down.
25:06And
25:09again, I'm telling you, I'm a dancer.
25:11>> So, I was on stage in this club.
25:15>> And it was my turn to go up and
25:19black men didn't frequent this club. So
25:21when there was some in there,
25:25I think there was one other black girl
25:27there with me.
25:28>> Mhm.
25:31>> Um, everybody was like, "Oh, and you
25:35need to be on stage and blah blah blah
25:37blah blah blah."
25:38>> So when he walked away, then I said,
25:43"I know who that is." [laughter]
25:46And so I went to the DJ booth and I I
25:48told him what to play for me. And like
25:51back then in the '9s, these clubs, they
25:53did not play black music.
25:55>> Mhm.
25:56>> But that was
25:59but they play stuff like they would play
26:01Prince,
26:02>> they would play um
26:05very soulful rock, you know what I mean?
26:10>> But um and then I asked for Portis Head.
26:14>> Portis Head is a group from London, I
26:18believe. M
26:19>> and they have a lot of
26:24turntable bass
26:27>> and that was it. He sat at the stage the
26:31whole time and it was just him there. In
26:34those moments it was me and him.
26:37>> Wow.
26:39>> And I
26:42went and sat down and we talked all
26:45night.
26:46>> Wow. So
26:50thinking back on just the relationship
26:53and connection that you guys had,
26:56>> did he ever speak about what kept him
26:59grounded as a person, as a man? What
27:03kept him grounded and kept him
27:07present for those who were around him?
27:10Because I'm sure being lost in music,
27:12it's a thing as a musician. Sometimes
27:15it's just you're hyperfixated on your
27:17career and
27:18>> and you miss out on the people. So what
27:21kept him grounded to maintain that
27:24connection that he had with you?
27:30>> He wasn't always grounded.
27:35>> He was always humble.
27:38>> Well, sometimes
27:41>> he had his moments. He's very human.
27:44>> Yeah.
27:44>> But I will tell you, he was not was not
27:46always grounded. You know, he was used
27:48to getting his way.
27:51>> What you what a lot of people don't
27:53remember is like he got his first deal
27:56when he was discovered. I think he was
27:5717
28:00>> and he s no 17 and he signed his deal
28:03when he was 19.
28:08But
28:09>> for much of it, you know, it was a kid
28:11just in a candy store getting everything
28:14that he wanted.
28:17>> So the industry will
28:21>> do a number on somebody like that.
28:26>> But what I will say is his
28:29>> outside.
28:30>> Okay. Wonderful.
28:32>> Okay. Wonderful.
28:35Um
28:37>> he wasn't always grounded.
28:39>> Yeah.
28:41>> And um he did he had a he had a good
28:45base because of you know his upbringing.
28:48>> Yeah.
28:49>> But still there were
28:52>> wait
28:53>> there were um
28:57[laughter]
28:57>> they got the biggest knives they can
28:59find to cut these pumpkins. I'm sorry.
29:01>> They better be careful. My husband went
29:03out there and was like, "Wait, y'all
29:04can't wait. Y'all told me outside
29:07inventory check." Like, I see all these
29:09things going out. [laughter]
29:12>> I am leaving the room. I'm so glad I
29:15have another adult.
29:18>> Yes. [laughter]
29:21>> To participate in said madness.
29:25[laughter]
29:27>> So, um I'm so glad that you you do have
29:29family around you. Yeah, it's
29:33>> I don't know what I would do.
29:34>> Yeah,
29:35>> I don't know what I would do without
29:37Isaiah Davis.
29:40>> And that is a testament to what a man
29:44and a husband is.
29:47>> I'm going to get my shirt blanket
29:49because we're still going to go outside
29:52because
29:53>> How about you shut this door cuz
29:55everything is an announcement.
29:59Thank you, sweet pee. Enjoy yourself.
30:02>> We're just gonna call our pumpkins.
30:04>> Okay.
30:05>> Okay.
30:08[laughter]
30:09>> I apologize.
30:10>> Oh, you're good. I I love it. So,
30:12>> this is this is my family
30:14>> and I appreciate it. I appreciate it.
30:16Listen, I'm I have two little ones
30:18myself. So,
30:21>> so you get it.
30:22>> Yes. Diving them to get the work done.
30:24>> Oh my god.
30:25>> Five and six. Had them back to back, you
30:28know. So, it's kind of, you know, I
30:30understand. I understand and and I'm I'm
30:33connecting with you in that way as a
30:34mother.
30:35>> Um,
30:36>> yeah.
30:36>> So,
30:39>> go ahead.
30:40>> No, no, no, no. I'm listening.
30:41>> Yes, ma'am. So you mentioned
30:44um his background and that
30:47>> kind of like for me I always wanted to
30:51know you know how he struggled with
30:55having a church background having a
30:58background that you know it's it's it's
31:02literally you know religious to the
31:05point where it's like you have to serve
31:07God you have everything that you do you
31:09have to devote it to God you have to
31:10devote it to this way of
31:12And I'm sure that he struggled with, you
31:15know, having that background, but then
31:17like you said, not being so grounded and
31:20and, you know, used to having his way
31:23and not really having a sense of
31:25direction from, you know, you know,
31:29where he was going. Um, how did that
31:33play in his private life? You know, like
31:36having the pressure of the church in the
31:39background, then also having the
31:40pressure of where people
31:46>> I'm listening.
31:47>> Yes. So having the pressure of, you
31:51know, people looking at him as this, you
31:54know, you know, from what we see on
31:57television and what we see in the
31:59papers, but then him also struggling
32:01with this who he was privately. Um,
32:06How what was his spirit like juggling
32:08all of those different views of him and
32:10and how did he cope in his private life
32:14um you know with with struggling to
32:16maintain all of these different aspects
32:18of who he was?
32:21>> Well, I mean he definitely was human so
32:27uh none of us could carry that. none of
32:30us could carry the weight that he did
32:33carry.
32:35Um,
32:38he had his moments.
32:40>> There were moments where he was very
32:44just stellar in the way that he would
32:51his disposition.
32:54>> You know, I remember the first date that
32:56we had. He took [laughter] me he took me
32:58to Red Lobster on Broad Street and as
33:01you know Red Lobster was like the bomb
33:04back then. [laughter]
33:08>> So yeah, he's just um we were sitting at
33:13the table and we come in and you know
33:16it's in Richmond and so everybody is
33:19like D'Angelo.
33:22You hear the whispers and everything.
33:24And
33:26we sat at the table and I'll never
33:29forget it. There was a line
33:32>> our table. One person
33:34asked for autograph
33:37and then one came up and then before you
33:40know it,
33:42we basically weren't able to eat
33:46our meal
33:49>> um
33:51alone
33:53because he was signing autographs.
33:58He was the most gracious.
34:01He was the most gentle
34:06>> man I had ever seen be interrupted.
34:13>> Um,
34:15like I told you, I'm a mirror.
34:17>> Mhm.
34:19>> So, I was enamored by this
34:24and people were stopping and apologizing
34:27to me. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I said,
34:29"No, it's okay.
34:32and I was learning in that time from
34:34him.
34:38So,
34:40you know, those are moments
34:42where that he accepted
34:46what he walked into.
34:52>> There were other moments where he just
34:54wasn't in the mood for the
34:56[laughter]
34:57You know,
34:57>> what did that look like?
35:00Child,
35:01>> go look go look up the newspaper
35:03articles. I mean, I can't even
35:07[laughter]
35:07[gasps]
35:09go into those because there's some
35:13details that I might get wrong or
35:15whatever, but
35:17>> it's a few of them that he was not nice,
35:20[laughter]
35:21you know, and
35:24like I said, like the weight that he
35:26carried was a lot. the weight on his
35:29shoulders, the weight up here was a lot.
35:31He struggled. He struggled all the time
35:35and he did his best
35:38and that's all you have to do in this
35:40life. He did what he felt he could.
35:43>> Yeah.
35:44>> And he was very generous.
35:48He would give and give. But
35:51one thing that I've always respected
35:53about him is he demanded his space.
35:57And Lord knows he demand time because
35:59every, you know, people waiting on
36:01albums.
36:03>> And I'm just going to tell you that did
36:05not stop at only working on albums.
36:12>> You We couldn't do nothing spur of the
36:15moment.
36:17>> Being with him being with him was
36:20equated to you have to be inside with
36:23him all the time. Yeah.
36:27>> And I really didn't care about the
36:30outside.
36:32If inside is what he needed me to be,
36:35that's what I was.
36:37>> And I've always told him for a long time
36:40that
36:44you'll never be alone. You'll never be
36:46by yourself.
36:48If I have anything to do with it,
36:51[clears throat]
36:51>> and whatever you need from me,
36:55you got it.
36:57And I meant that.
37:00>> Now, what was that time like when he
37:02took in between voodoo and the Black
37:05Messiah? What was that time like?
37:07Because I feel like it's so unfair to
37:10just
37:12base that whole era of his life on the
37:15articles and the newspaper and what
37:17we've seen. Cuz I remember, you know, I
37:18was maybe in elementary school, I would
37:21hear my mom's reaction on the phone with
37:22her girlfriends to do you see what
37:24happened? Did you see what they said?
37:26And I just really never understood it.
37:29But I would love to know what that
37:33hiatus or that block of time was. You
37:36know, I'm sure
37:37>> 14 years.
37:38>> Yeah. What was that like for you?
37:43>> Our stent was I was working in LA. Um,
37:48so I lived in LA in 2003. I came back in
37:52200
37:54I came I moved back to New York in 2009.
38:01>> The end of 2009. So nearly seven years I
38:04was in LA.
38:05>> Okay.
38:06>> And um
38:09that stent was when Dilla passed away.
38:12That was really Michael takes death very
38:15hard. Mhm.
38:17>> If it's anybody,
38:23>> I remember Whitney Houston died on his
38:26birthday.
38:27>> Mhm.
38:29>> Um I remember when Dilla died,
38:33that took a lot out of him. He had just
38:36gotten out of rehab
38:38>> in Antigua
38:40and he was in
38:43the halfway house or halfway situation
38:49>> in um [clears throat]
38:53>> Sherman Oaks. I believe I was living in
38:56Sherman Oaks as well. It just so
38:58happened he from Antigua. He went to LA
39:02and
39:04>> it was just him trying to be able to
39:07function,
39:08you know.
39:10>> Um, Dilla,
39:14you know, it was the yang to his yang
39:16and it was a lot because Dilla
39:19understood him.
39:20>> He didn't have to explain
39:23to Dyla. Like they just they worked in
39:25tandem like it was magic.
39:27>> Mhm.
39:29And it was like cutting off his arm.
39:31That's the way he felt.
39:34And
39:36he mourns deep.
39:41I was always afraid when people died
39:43because I was like, "Fuck,
39:46he's never going to get like we now now
39:49it's going to take when it was going to
39:50take
39:52>> three weeks. Now it's going to take him
39:54two months."
39:56>> Yes.
39:58because he
40:01I don't know. I can't even explain it.
40:04>> I watched um the documentary Devil's Pie
40:08and there was a moment in the
40:09documentary where Quest Love was saying
40:12like
40:14he almost put himself in that that same
40:17type of position where it was like,
40:18"Come on, we got another show. We got to
40:20show." No, you can't quit.
40:22>> Listen, listen, listen. You have to do
40:23that. We had to do that every time. We
40:26had to do that every time.
40:28>> He would retreat so much.
40:32>> Wow.
40:33>> He would retreat so much and he would
40:36make excuses for why he needs to wait
40:39and why he needs to see and why he needs
40:42to. And I remember when we got we were
40:47together from like 96 to like
40:52I met 96 and then we was together for
40:54like two years.
40:55Mhm.
40:56>> And then
40:58we broke up and I didn't talk to him. He
41:02didn't talk to me, you know, he was
41:03doing he I think he went to rehab or
41:05whatever and whatever and I didn't talk
41:07to him for like three years
41:09and then when he got in the car
41:11accident,
41:14I was living in LA and I I still had his
41:17mother's number and I called Miss Marian
41:20>> and I wanted to check on him because,
41:23you know, I was so sorry that that had
41:26happened to him and I just didn't want,
41:28you know, I was the one that hung around
41:30when the lights were off and when the
41:32phone calls were low.
41:37>> So from 200 I say 2005
41:43to 2015 that was
41:48that was our relationship.
41:52>> Wow.
41:53>> Roco was born
41:56in 2010.
41:59So you witnessed
42:03him
42:07at some of the lowest
42:09points,
42:11most humbling points.
42:13Um, and it goes back to what you said
42:15like black women always having that
42:18position in a man's life to, you know,
42:21uh, I heard um, someone say, you know,
42:23these men nowadays they say, uh, what do
42:26you bring to the table? And it's like,
42:27well, no, I am the table. Like, we are
42:29coming to these men
42:32ready to hold everything that they bring
42:35to that table. And
42:38>> and everything is not pretty and
42:40everything is not nice and everything is
42:42not
42:43>> it's not it's it's
42:45>> and everything is not doesn't reflect
42:48what you've given and what you've done.
42:50>> Yeah. When did it feel like
42:54too much for you?
43:06It felt like too much at the end.
43:09You see, I I was raised by strong women,
43:14but unfortunately, I looked at those
43:17strong women and I saw
43:21their demeanor sometimes
43:24towards the man that they chose or their
43:28husband or what.
43:31My mother was a strong woman, but she
43:33was alone.
43:36My aunt was a strong woman, but
43:44she was, you know, I just saw the
43:46dynamic in that relationship
43:50and
43:52my grandmother was the same.
43:57And I didn't want to
43:59be a strong woman because of what I saw
44:03got strong women. I looked around and I
44:06saw strong women by their self.
44:11>> So I felt in this relationship again
44:15remember I don't have a blueprint of the
44:17way it's supposed to be. I see my aunt
44:19uncle and I saw that and that was cute
44:21and that was nice. They was more like
44:23the Huxables.
44:26>> You know what I mean? Like I that's
44:27that's what they were to me. My aunt was
44:30straight Claire Huxible. My uncle the
44:32same. my mother, you know, she was in
44:35the military. So,
44:38you understand what I'm saying? I saw
44:40the model, but
44:41>> you had
44:42>> For me, I wanted and then I didn't see
44:45my father.
44:46>> Yeah.
44:46>> For me, I wanted
44:49that.
44:51And so, I said to myself, I was like,
44:55this there's got to be a a a formula to
44:58this. And so, I reverted back to
45:03Well, those traditional roles
45:06should work. A man should do this and a
45:08woman should do that. And it was in an
45:10era where feminism, feminism was
45:15the thing.
45:16>> Mhm.
45:17>> And I struggled at times. And you know,
45:20in college, you know, later in the
45:22years, I realized I'm I've never been a
45:24feminist. I'm a womanist.
45:27>> Yep.
45:27>> Because a womanist holds up.
45:31>> Mhm. her man.
45:33>> Yeah.
45:33>> See, black women can't be feminists.
45:36>> And I'm gonna be honest. I feel like
45:37black women because we come from We are
45:40people of the earth. We need our man.
45:43>> That's right.
45:45>> I don't like feminism. I don't I just
45:47don't I don't I don't Not that I don't
45:49like feminist. I think feminist was for
45:52white women.
45:52>> That's right. Teach.
45:55>> I don't That's not That's like I said,
45:59we work in community. We work in
46:04a collective. We work in tribes. We work
46:07in neighborhoods. We work in you
46:10understand.
46:11>> We work in
46:13>> everybody knows everybody who live on
46:15this block
46:16>> type type So
46:20womanism was
46:24my flag that I wore. M
46:27>> so in this relationship that I had
46:36I subdued myself to in many situations
46:41and I liked that.
46:44>> I liked being taken care of. I liked
46:46being cared for. I liked being asked
46:52what did I want and we'll see about
46:55getting you this or we'll see about
46:57doing this for you. I loved that. I
47:00didn't even have that from a father.
47:02>> Mhm.
47:04>> So that was my mindset in the
47:08relationship.
47:11Um,
47:13but
47:16and there's nothing wrong with that, but
47:18it kind of handicaps you at times. It
47:23can handicap you if you don't
47:32have a partner who
47:39considers you in the long run.
47:46>> I loved him with all my heart. I you
47:48know I I I will never not love him. But
47:53that is a chapter that's long been
47:56closed.
47:57>> Yeah.
47:57>> Cuz honestly I've learned that he he and
48:02I know Michael loved me because
48:05we have been through so much.
48:08There's many instances where it was no
48:11doubt that he did.
48:13>> Mhm.
48:14Sometimes I was a raft that he clung to
48:17because he felt like he was just out on
48:20a limb
48:23and I
48:26was okay with that. I felt needed
48:30>> and I was okay with sacrificing every
48:33opportunity around me. Again, I'm a
48:35dancer. I'm an actress. I'm a voice over
48:39artist, you know,
48:41and
48:43in his world,
48:45if you're gonna be in here, then all of
48:48that on the outside, that's secondary.
48:54>> And I mean, he don't care. [laughter]
48:59>> I've been there. I know it. I know.
49:02>> He don't care about He don't care about
49:03your aspirations.
49:05>> [laughter]
49:06>> He really doesn't.
49:07>> The D'Angelo show.
49:11Wow.
49:12>> And then it's like
49:14it's real life in there.
49:16>> It's real life. Like you don't like I'm
49:19I remember this thing. He was like I
49:21would say something. He'd be like, "We
49:22don't talk about D'Angelo business."
49:25>> And I'd be like, "Well, it. I don't
49:28got to talk about the Angelo [laughter]
49:30business. I don't
49:31>> you be a Hollywood for it. I love I love
49:34you, Like, ain't nobody.
49:36[laughter]
49:38>> Oh my.
49:39>> So, we we honestly didn't talk about a
49:42lot of it. We didn't. Now, we would we
49:45would groove and gig off of music and
49:47stuff and
49:50you know, but
49:52when he was in his creative space, he
49:54would go upstairs and he would be in his
49:56studio in the house that he had in
49:59Richmond.
50:01He had a uh one of the bedrooms he
50:04transformed into a studio. So he would
50:06go up there and he would close the door
50:08and he wouldn't come out. And that was
50:10the kind of like his safe space. And it
50:14was kind of like his space of like I
50:18knew not to go up there. And honestly,
50:21I'm a Capricorn so I like my space too.
50:24>> Mhm.
50:24>> So I'm just I was like good. I got the
50:28house to myself, you know. No,
50:30seriously. Like
50:32like that's
50:34>> So he would be going in there for like
50:36days or how long?
50:38>> Hours. He would go in there for hours.
50:40He might fall asleep in there. He might
50:43but he would eventually come downstairs
50:44and get into bed.
50:47>> But
50:51that was his space.
50:53>> What was it like
50:55uh during the time of your pregnancy
50:57with Morocco? What was that like? What
51:01was his energy? What was he, you know,
51:03like I feel like every dad, you know,
51:06even in my relationship with my ex, like
51:09when you're carrying their child, it's
51:12just like the energy that you see coming
51:15from them is different. And it's kind of
51:18like, oh, I wish I could be pregnant
51:19forever, you know? But [laughter]
51:23so what was that like in your like what
51:26did that do to the dynamic? What was his
51:28energy in that moment?
51:31Was it reflecting? Was he reflecting his
51:33energy uh in his music uh during that
51:37time as well?
51:38>> He was so nervous. It was on the
51:40precipice of Black Messiah
51:43>> and that was the whole thing for him to
51:45get Black Messiah out. He struggled on
51:48trying to figure out what to call it.
51:51Um, as far as me being pregnant, when
51:54when I was first pregnant, he was just
51:56like, "It's not time for this. We can't
51:59do this." And I said, "Everything is not
52:00on your time."
52:02>> Mhm.
52:04>> So, he was, you know,
52:07surprises. He hates like he has
52:11everything is planned.
52:14Everything is planned. Like if somebody
52:16said
52:20uh the whole uh the whole soul aquariums
52:25are meeting at the this
52:28thing
52:30in two days and everybody's there's no
52:33problem with resources or finances.
52:36Everybody's flying down. He's like no I
52:40can't I can't do that. M.
52:42>> And I would be like, "Well, why?"
52:46>> You're your boss.
52:48>> Yeah.
52:51>> And so,
52:53he he's got to wrap his head around
52:55every single detail
53:00>> and being pregnant. So, yeah, at the
53:03beginning, he was just like, "What?
53:06What?"
53:07And then the first trimester, the end of
53:11the first trimester, he was just not
53:14accepting it. He was like, "It's not
53:16time for this." and we got to and
53:20at the end of the first trimester, he
53:23said he cuz I got mad and I left and I
53:26went and stayed with my mother
53:28>> cuz I I just didn't want to be around
53:31him
53:33telling me it's not time for this and
53:35what needs to be done and this that and
53:37the third
53:39because honestly, you know,
53:43Rocco being a thing was really wild to
53:48me because we had been in the same way
53:50for years.
53:51>> Mhm.
53:52>> And I wasn't pregnant, so I wasn't
53:55really worrying about it.
53:58And then all of a sudden, because
54:00honestly, I was um going to go to Spain
54:06and teach ESL.
54:09>> I'm bilingual. I speak Spanish, but I
54:11was going to go and teach ESL.
54:15And so I was going to New York to get my
54:19certification. I was staying with my
54:21aunt in New York.
54:25I had everything planned and picked out.
54:29So I thought, [clears throat]
54:32>> and you know, a woman knows her body.
54:36>> And I told him, I was like, "I'm
54:38pregnant."
54:40And he was like, "No, you're not. No,
54:44you're not. You're not. You're not. And
54:47I actually took like three tests and
54:50they were all negative. I said, "I'm
54:52pregnant." I said, "It's too early
54:54then."
54:55>> Mhm.
54:57>> And he was like, "The test you took
54:59said." And I said, "I don't care what
55:00you He called his mom and he asked his
55:02mom. I said again, I don't care what you
55:06and Miss Marian are saying." and she's
55:09trying to say, "Well, sometimes, you
55:12know, this happens and that's not it's
55:14not necessarily." So, he's taking her
55:16word for gospel, you know, and and I was
55:18sitting there like, I don't care what
55:20neither one of y'all saying. I know
55:22what's going on with these and I know
55:24like this is not the way it's supposed
55:27to be. Something's out of whack.
55:32And so it was just waiting, you know,
55:35the waiting game.
55:38>> [gasps]
55:39>> And um
55:42we went to [laughter] we went to the
55:45doctor
55:47and um he was in the room with me when
55:50they was doing the ultrasound
55:53and this is still I'm getting negative
55:55tests
55:58and he looked at the ultrasound and she
56:01you know it's like
56:05>> and so then He runs over the little area
56:10and [laughter] he's always funny to me
56:13when he looks at stuff because he looks
56:16at stuff like if he don't have his
56:19glasses on you could tell he can't see.
56:22So [laughter]
56:24>> So he was looking he was looking he was
56:26looking at stuff. being said and he was
56:29like and she said right there and she
56:33[laughter] like
56:35and he was like
56:38he looked at me and I looked at him and
56:42I really wanted to be like now I told
56:44you what I tell you [laughter]
56:48>> what pregnancy test was that cuz we need
56:50to uh discontinue them
56:54>> which one at the time it was whatever I
56:56picked Right. Aid. Oh god. [laughter]
57:00>> To get my
57:02wife or daddy.
57:04>> Oh, okay. Your your brown light.
57:10>> You look like you. I swear I thought
57:12that was a cantaloupe.
57:14The color,
57:16[laughter]
57:18>> daddy.
57:18>> He's cute.
57:21[sighs and gasps]
57:22It's in there, baby. So anyway, yeah,
57:26that was um
57:28>> it was just so funny.
57:31And then, you know,
57:33at the first trimester was rough
57:36because, you know, I just felt like I
57:40didn't have that support.
57:42>> At the end, he called me. Yes.
57:45I get afraid. At the end, he called me
57:47at the end of the first trimester and he
57:50said, "What you doing?" And I said, and
57:55I said,
57:56>> "Excuse mom for help."
57:57>> Talking on the phone
58:00cuz I was supposed to be mad at him. And
58:03I was basically in a state of I said
58:05what I said.
58:09M.
58:11>> And he said, "Well,
58:15I guess we about to have a baby, huh?"
58:18>> You know what? And I did LIKE THIS. I
58:20SAID, [screaming] "HEY,
58:23right on in." [laughter]
58:31>> Right on in.
58:32>> Okay. Right on in.
58:36[laughter]
58:37Take that. I'm gonna take
58:40came right on in. [laughter]
58:45>> So, yes. So, that was that was uh that
58:51was what it was. I think he just I don't
58:55I guess I was like, I don't know who you
58:56got to talk to, but you gonna figure
58:58this out. [laughter]
59:02>> But, um
59:04but yeah.
59:07Yeah.
59:09Um it was great. Oh, and when he found
59:13when we went to um
59:16I was in St. Luke's Roosevelt and we
59:18went to find out
59:22if you know what Rocco was.
59:24>> Mhm. And I remember the appointment and
59:28he got um I have a picture of me
59:31pregnant in that apartment and um he
59:38got he was in the studio all night
59:42and he came back in like 5. That that's
59:45his hours. He would go from like
59:47midnight to like 5.
59:50>> That's that's where he works.
59:52And he came back and I was like so
59:56scared. I was like, he just is gonna
59:58come back from the studio and go to
1:00:00sleep and we ain't never gonna get out
1:00:02of this room, you know, just we not
1:00:05going to get out to get the appointment
1:00:07>> and I had an early appointment and I was
1:00:10glad I had an early appointment because
1:00:12that means that he could go
1:00:15>> because we always move like that. We
1:00:17move when there's not a lot of people.
1:00:20We moved, you know,
1:00:23times with like we would go see movies
1:00:25in the daytime.
1:00:26>> Yeah.
1:00:28>> And so like so he can have his space.
1:00:32>> Mhm.
1:00:32>> So we went to the
1:00:35hospital
1:00:38and she was was it a guy or a lady?
1:00:42I think it was a lady
1:00:45who
1:00:47uh did the ultrasound. Mhm.
1:00:50>> And
1:00:51I swear to you, like he probably with
1:00:56boots on the ground could have jumped up
1:00:58and hit the ceiling when she said
1:01:03she said pointed at his testicles. She
1:01:07said one. She said one, two, see that?
1:01:11And she [laughter]
1:01:13and he was like yes, YES, YES. HE was
1:01:17hollering and I was like, "You are loud.
1:01:22You nobody Okay, people didn't know you
1:01:24was in here, but now
1:01:26>> now they know."
1:01:27>> And now and all the nurses was coming
1:01:29in. They was like, "Oh my god, it's Oh
1:01:32my god." And I was like, "Well, it.
1:01:34We now everybody know we in the
1:01:37hospital." Mhm.
1:01:39>> And I just said I was like
1:01:42I said the floor is going to cave in if
1:01:44you keep jumping up and down like this.
1:01:47Like I don't understand.
1:01:49>> So but he was so happy to learn that it
1:01:55was a boy.
1:01:57>> He he was he was overjoyed. He's very
1:02:03patriarchal.
1:02:05>> Mhm.
1:02:06sometimes chauvinistic.
1:02:08[laughter]
1:02:10>> Yes, he is.
1:02:11>> Oh, man. From that era.
1:02:13>> He is. He is. So, sometimes I'll be
1:02:16like, "Oh, if I would if I would be
1:02:19looking at like Oprah or if I be look,
1:02:22he'll be like,
1:02:24>> "What you watching that for?"
1:02:26>> Well, yes. Yes. Like that's like he he
1:02:30didn't like if I was watching some woman
1:02:32centered thing, if I
1:02:35>> cackling on the phone, if I was doing he
1:02:38would just be like
1:02:42>> that face. That's that face. He'd be
1:02:44like Rocco has that face. He has when he
1:02:48doesn't like something he looks just
1:02:49like he be like
1:02:54>> so
1:02:54>> that I that's totally my father. I I
1:02:58remember him being the same way. Like
1:03:01especially when it came to Beyonce that
1:03:04Oh my god. The only time he liked
1:03:06Beyonce was the Cater to You song.
1:03:08[laughter] That's
1:03:10>> Yeah.
1:03:11>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's it.
1:03:14>> Okay. That's the one.
1:03:16>> That's the one.
1:03:18>> That's the one. [laughter]
1:03:20>> That's the one that they all seem to
1:03:21agree about. Like, oh, you can listen to
1:03:23that.
1:03:25>> Yes.
1:03:26>> Oh, girl.
1:03:26>> Oh my god. He would say when if it was
1:03:30an argument or something, he said, "You
1:03:32over there." Oh, he when Tommy said,
1:03:34"You over there listen,
1:03:37you over there listening to Angie like
1:03:38she a y'all van." I said, "Ain't nobody
1:03:41listening to Angie like this."
1:03:43[laughter]
1:03:45So, I'm trying to tell you
1:03:46>> so petty.
1:03:48>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he would be like I
1:03:52think he I sometimes I think he was a
1:03:54starter. He would be like, "She
1:03:56don't like you." No way. I was like,
1:03:58"Well, she don't like you sometimes." No
1:03:59way either. So, shut up.
1:04:02I I let let's I want to, you know,
1:04:06>> dig a little bit into that because
1:04:09>> you hear so many people's uh comments
1:04:13about Angie and D'Angelo's connection
1:04:16and everybody's divided. You have one
1:04:19half of the room that's saying, you
1:04:21know, you know, they what they had kind
1:04:24of like lingered. Now you have one side
1:04:27of the room that's saying, "Oh no,
1:04:29whatever happened was over in the 90s
1:04:31and they never really like it wasn't
1:04:33that romanticized."
1:04:35What was the dynamic like between him,
1:04:38Angie? Because most of us we heard it
1:04:40through the music during that tumultuous
1:04:43time, but nobody really knew or
1:04:47understood. And then, you know, now you
1:04:49got so many theories of what it was and
1:04:52what it could have been. What was the
1:04:54true dynamic between those two?
1:05:00>> Angie was assigned to Michael
1:05:05by the label when he first got his deal.
1:05:09>> She was assigned to him. They they said
1:05:11because he didn't have a work ethic.
1:05:15>> He went he didn't come prepared.
1:05:18He didn't know he was young.
1:05:20>> Mhm.
1:05:22But they knew somebody who was a good
1:05:23songwriter and she knew how she knew the
1:05:27business.
1:05:29>> So they assigned her they was like we
1:05:32need to put her with him and show so he
1:05:34could show him how da da da.
1:05:37>> Mhm.
1:05:40>> So it wasn't like I love when people say
1:05:43oh well she was with him when he didn't
1:05:44have anything or before he was D'Angelo.
1:05:47I'm like
1:05:49>> no she wasn't. Mhm.
1:05:52>> You know, she she she was she saw the
1:05:57>> bigger picture.
1:05:59>> She understood who she was dealing with.
1:06:03He was definitely green,
1:06:06but everything was consensual.
1:06:09>> Mhm.
1:06:10>> It wasn't any type of,
1:06:13you know, he was definitely green. I
1:06:15will say that. And Michael has such a
1:06:18I've I've I've
1:06:20known him from 96 to now and he
1:06:26was such a be and still and always was a
1:06:30beautiful spirit.
1:06:32>> At times there was a naive
1:06:35there and you were just like wow. You
1:06:38felt like you were talking to
1:06:41the most
1:06:44purest form
1:06:47of a man
1:06:50and you trusted it.
1:06:51>> Mhm.
1:06:52>> It was so
1:06:55pure
1:06:57and that's what happened. You
1:06:59[clears throat] know,
1:07:01he had many love affairs.
1:07:06Um, but
1:07:09that relationship was everything that
1:07:12Angie said it was.
1:07:16>> But he began to resent her.
1:07:22>> He began to resent her. He would.
1:07:30And it really turned into it really
1:07:32honestly turned into like a sister
1:07:35brother thing
1:07:39>> because she kind of outgrew his
1:07:42And she was like, "I'm tired."
1:07:46I felt that
1:07:48>> she outgrew his and she was
1:07:50just like I'm not trying to be around
1:07:53him talking all this that and the third
1:07:56like I'm not and he would try to he I
1:07:59feel like he had something to prove to
1:08:01her because she was older than him. He
1:08:04would behave in that way trying to,
1:08:09you know, man up and be who he was and
1:08:13try to in sort of a way put her in her
1:08:16place.
1:08:17>> Mhm.
1:08:20And
1:08:24yeah, I feel like it was I mean there
1:08:26was there was always love there, but
1:08:32he resented her in many ways, but he
1:08:36knew she wasn't going nowhere.
1:08:38>> Mhm.
1:08:40And um
1:08:44he he liked to collect.
1:08:48What does that mean?
1:08:55Every woman that has ever dealt with
1:08:57Michael
1:08:58>> Mhm.
1:08:59>> has had her particular story
1:09:03>> and she definitely had her love affair
1:09:06with him and it was come in
1:09:10Yeah.
1:09:11>> You said I can get I can get the $5.
1:09:15>> Oh, when I get off the phone, I could I
1:09:17work it out.
1:09:19Um,
1:09:25>> every love affair was what it was.
1:09:28>> Mhm.
1:09:28>> What he tell me
1:09:31was between me and him. Would he tell
1:09:33her was between him and her? Would he
1:09:36tell that one?
1:09:39>> And he never wanted anybody to talk to
1:09:41each other. Of course, because you got
1:09:42to keep it compartmentalized.
1:09:45>> Mhm.
1:09:45>> He would tell Angie, "It's nobody else
1:09:48matters because nobody's going to
1:09:50remember anything but me and you."
1:09:55>> So that would keep her on the line.
1:09:58>> Mhm.
1:09:59He would tell me, "Baby, I can't do any
1:10:03of this about anything any of this
1:10:05without you. Like, I need you.
1:10:09>> You You've done you've helped me get
1:10:11this far. You know, you've helped me
1:10:13climb out this hole,
1:10:17>> and I know you you know, you you good.
1:10:19You a good girl." and that you know
1:10:22>> Mhm.
1:10:23>> he would tell Marcia, his daughter's
1:10:26mother,
1:10:27>> Mhm.
1:10:27>> It's me and you. Me and you against the
1:10:30world.
1:10:31He collected.
1:10:35>> He collected.
1:10:37>> And that's the honest truth.
1:10:40And he wanted each and every he wanted
1:10:43everybody. He wanted to have the ones
1:10:45that he wanted everybody to be there for
1:10:48him. M
1:10:50>> did not like losing one or the other.
1:10:53>> Yeah. And I think that doesn't take away
1:10:57from who you all are as women.
1:11:01>> Just goes to show how much this one man
1:11:04actually needed in order to keep him in
1:11:09some sort of level of sanity almost.
1:11:12>> Yeah. But I mean, I get it. I get it. I
1:11:15mean, you know,
1:11:21somebody who, and I'm not saying that he
1:11:23is, but somebody is who is psychotic is
1:11:26going to do things, yes, to keep
1:11:27themselves stay sane, but those things
1:11:29are not necessarily
1:11:32>> sane or morally right.
1:11:34>> Exactly.
1:11:37um
1:11:40he just wanted to be in control of
1:11:42everything and everybody.
1:11:47>> He did. Um but like I said, the
1:11:50relationship,
1:11:52which is why he compartmentalized the
1:11:54way he did.
1:11:58Um the relationship with him and Angie
1:12:00was very much that it definitely grew
1:12:02into different things over the years and
1:12:05everybody changed and mode but he knew
1:12:08that
1:12:10he could call her if he needed
1:12:13something.
1:12:16>> He knew that he can call me and doesn't
1:12:19matter where I was. I'd be on the next
1:12:21plane out. Mhm.
1:12:25>> I remember my aunt my aunt in
1:12:27Indianapolis was like, "You would just
1:12:30get on a plane, like leave the house and
1:12:32be gone."
1:12:35>> And I said, "Yeah, cuz I was, you know,
1:12:37I was gone." I mean, what?
1:12:40>> Mhm.
1:12:41>> That was my man. I wanted to be there
1:12:43for him.
1:12:46>> It's It's much deeper than that.
1:12:50Um, you know, I just didn't ever want
1:12:53him to feel alone.
1:12:55>> Yeah.
1:12:57>> That in between time that you talk about
1:12:59the 14 years.
1:13:01>> Mhm.
1:13:04>> It amazed me when I saw him, he had
1:13:05gained so much weight and
1:13:12I loved him just the same. And he was
1:13:15just so
1:13:17he just looks so defeated.
1:13:21And I wanted to love him more.
1:13:26>> And I mean, I remember coming to the
1:13:28house and I was like, "What are you do?"
1:13:31Like, "What are you doing?" He had he
1:13:33would have all of his Grammys and his
1:13:35awards and Essence awards and this award
1:13:39and that award and soul train awards and
1:13:43and they would be in boxes and I was
1:13:46like, "Why you got all these in boxes?
1:13:50I don't I don't care [clears throat]
1:13:51about all that. And I took every each
1:13:54and every one of them out and I put
1:13:57everything on the wall and I said, "This
1:14:00is so you can see it.
1:14:03>> You need to see what you're doing, what
1:14:05you've done already."
1:14:06>> Mhm.
1:14:08>> I mean, I went in the house and was like
1:14:11cleaning it top to bottom and putting
1:14:14light bulbs in sockets like replace it.
1:14:17like he just let it dwindle.
1:14:20>> Yeah.
1:14:21>> And I was like, "Do you know who you
1:14:25are?"
1:14:28Like it was like that. I believe you
1:14:31because I I uh there's a scene and it's
1:14:34going viral right now from the
1:14:36documentary where he had just got off
1:14:38stage and his road manager and um I
1:14:42don't know who the other gentleman was,
1:14:43but it was almost like he didn't believe
1:14:46the the crowd's response to him on
1:14:48stage. So, they had to literally pull up
1:14:51Twitter and show them him what they were
1:14:54saying about the show that he just got
1:14:55off stage from. And he kind of was like,
1:14:59"That's not from tonight." And they're
1:15:00like, "Yeah, is from
1:15:01tonight." Like this is
1:15:02>> So let me So let me tell you that. Let
1:15:05me tell you
1:15:07because in the 14 years Mike I remember
1:15:11when Mike first got his computer like
1:15:15his Apple like literally he was like
1:15:20Rip Van Winkle like [laughter]
1:15:24>> I believe
1:15:24>> and he Yeah, he because one thing when I
1:15:28first met him he didn't carry a cell
1:15:32phone
1:15:33>> and that's when everybody body was
1:15:35starting to carry a cell phone. And so I
1:15:38thought it was such a rebel thing. I was
1:15:41just like, "Wow, he just refuses." Like,
1:15:44"Fuck the system. He doesn't want to
1:15:47[laughter] kill." Thought that was
1:15:49so cool.
1:15:51And I was like, um, he said, "If anybody
1:15:54needs to get in contact with me, Dom
1:15:57knows how. Dominic extraire. Dom knows
1:15:59how to get to me.
1:16:02Dom will call me and tell me or Dom will
1:16:04show up. And I was like, "Yeah,
1:16:08[laughter]
1:16:09you know,
1:16:13>> yeah, yeah, I'm with him. I'm He's
1:16:16having [laughter]
1:16:23>> So, yeah. I mean, you you get
1:16:27indoctrinated into his belief system
1:16:31>> and
1:16:32>> it's a crazy ride because
1:16:36one day you look up and you're like,
1:16:39what the Where have I been?
1:16:42>> And like, why have I why do I why have I
1:16:44adopted these
1:16:48beliefs
1:16:50or this way of doing things?
1:16:54But but yeah, he technology-wise
1:17:00he for the longest time he had no clue
1:17:04how this stuff work because he refused
1:17:07it.
1:17:10He he rejected it.
1:17:12>> Did he ever say why?
1:17:17>> Because he he's a big conspiracy
1:17:19theorist. [laughter]
1:17:23He's a big conspiracy theorist and
1:17:26he's just like,
1:17:30"Nah."
1:17:31>> Mhm.
1:17:33>> Until until he saw the importance of it.
1:17:39Until he saw the importance of it. I
1:17:40remember we rode across the country
1:17:44cuz he didn't want to get on the plane.
1:17:48>> Mhm.
1:17:49So he was like, "I'm not getting on the
1:17:52plane. I'm not going to the airport."
1:17:54And everybody was like, "What the?" They
1:17:57was like, "You want to ride?" He was
1:17:58like, "I want to ride a tour bus."
1:18:01>> And I'm sitting there and Lindsay Gon
1:18:04was his manager at the time.
1:18:07And Lindsay was like, "Okay, so we'll
1:18:09get a tour bus." The tour bus backed
1:18:12down the long driveway to the house. And
1:18:16he was like, "You coming? come on, you
1:18:19going with me. And I was like, wow.
1:18:21Okay. So, we're riding the brother
1:18:23across [laughter] the country for three
1:18:25days
1:18:27>> and we rode from Richmond, Virginia
1:18:30to San Francisco.
1:18:35>> And that was that in itself. I have
1:18:37pictures of like take I took pictures
1:18:40out of the wind out the window.
1:18:43>> I have old pictures of those just the
1:18:45scenes out the window. And just knowing
1:18:48that he and I rode across the country
1:18:52together like that,
1:18:55>> that's unforgettable.
1:18:57>> We stopped in like this PBLO town and we
1:19:00got these little
1:19:02>> um you know the things where you put
1:19:04your head through like a like a smok
1:19:08like thing.
1:19:08>> Okay. Like a poncho.
1:19:10>> Yeah. Yeah. Poncho. Like they're like it
1:19:12was like um made from natives. Okay.
1:19:17>> And so I remember we stopped on the side
1:19:19of the road and we bought us two
1:19:21ponchos.
1:19:23>> Girl, it was it was everything. It was
1:19:26everything. And
1:19:29I was glad to
1:19:32be in the company of him
1:19:35and, you know, cheer him on.
1:19:39>> I remember my mother said, "When are you
1:19:41going to get back to your business?" And
1:19:42I was like, "This is my business. Leave
1:19:44me alone." Mhm.
1:19:50>> And so, you know,
1:19:53I wouldn't I wouldn't trade it. Um, I
1:19:56just felt like
1:19:59I lived in the purest form and I felt I
1:20:03feel like God put me in that place
1:20:05because God knows that I'm receptive to
1:20:07him.
1:20:08>> Yeah.
1:20:10>> I I strongly feel that way. God knows
1:20:13that he has a
1:20:16an antenna in me. So, he's like, "Let me
1:20:20put you over here because
1:20:23I can I can speak to you and I can tell
1:20:26you what's right."
1:20:27>> Yeah.
1:20:28>> You know, some people aren't able to
1:20:30hear or listen or
1:20:33But I honestly feel that.
1:20:37>> Yeah. I honestly feel that. Now, just
1:20:41hearing all of that and I'm pretty sure
1:20:45that life, you know, especially without
1:20:49internet and without, you know,
1:20:52everything like that was
1:20:53>> that was that was the best scene in that
1:20:55that was one of the best scenes. But I'm
1:20:57telling you, it was like he did not
1:20:59understand.
1:21:01He did not understand it.
1:21:04>> Wow. just
1:21:07I'm trying to tell you like he was like
1:21:12>> because he rejected it because it was so
1:21:16new. It was so foreign. It was so I
1:21:19don't know.
1:21:22But I'm sure it made life a lot longer
1:21:26and such
1:21:28that that that
1:21:30point or that that time that you spent
1:21:33with him. Did it make did it elongate
1:21:36your time together? And did it stretch
1:21:39that you know what could have felt like
1:21:43years gone by? Did it make it seem as if
1:21:45it was like a longer experience? And
1:21:49what what was that like? Like that that
1:21:51that whole experience of being trapped
1:21:53in this way of life even though outside
1:21:57of that bubble life is just, you know,
1:22:00going on and but he's keeping you in
1:22:03this
1:22:05One, be sure to say he not keeping me
1:22:07anywhere.
1:22:08>> I know. That's right. Yes, sir.
1:22:10>> He's not keeping me anywhere. He did. I
1:22:12wasn't, like I tell people, I wasn't
1:22:14under rest. But I'm going to be honest
1:22:16with you, it felt like being in the
1:22:19pocket of something great.
1:22:22>> I trusted God.
1:22:24>> Yes, ma'am.
1:22:26>> I trusted that this was where I was
1:22:29supposed to be.
1:22:32And I loved being in that space. I loved
1:22:34being chosen
1:22:37>> as I thought.
1:22:39>> You you understand what I'm saying?
1:22:40>> Got you.
1:22:42Um
1:22:44later on I I learned that I deserved
1:22:48more
1:22:52and um
1:22:55yeah I deserve more and I was definitely
1:22:59present when I was no longer his muse.
1:23:04So it it goes to that space too when
1:23:08your sites or your you know he's an
1:23:11artist.
1:23:13>> I you've got to expect that.
1:23:16>> Yeah.
1:23:17>> It wasn't a shock. It wasn't it was just
1:23:19like
1:23:23okay. Yeah.
1:23:26>> It hurt
1:23:30but it was what it was.
1:23:32>> Mhm.
1:23:34And um
1:23:37and I stayed for quite a long time.
1:23:40>> Even know even knowing that he was
1:23:43getting inspiration
1:23:45from elsewhere.
1:23:47>> Yeah.
1:23:51>> I remember I was pregnant and
1:23:55I watched him.
1:23:59That's That's what you said. When was it
1:24:01enough? Mhm.
1:24:04>> I was pregnant with my son and I watched
1:24:08him.
1:24:11I was I was get going in the car and
1:24:14getting some of the groceries out
1:24:17and I looked in the seat and there was a
1:24:21bouquet of flowers
1:24:24>> and I brought the flowers in with the
1:24:26groceries and I was like, "These are so
1:24:28pretty." And he would and he told me,
1:24:30"Those aren't for you.
1:24:37And that night he kissed me on my
1:24:39forehead and he left
1:24:43>> and left me in the house.
1:24:47>> And I was pregnant and I was like
1:24:52I had already had a sense of that was
1:24:54going on. I had already
1:25:01I mean I had already
1:25:04understood what it was but it was never
1:25:06in my face like that.
1:25:08>> Yeah.
1:25:10>> And I had to accept it. I stayed in the
1:25:13house by myself.
1:25:16>> I was pregnant and I accepted that. And
1:25:20part of me danced around the idea of is
1:25:23this what I signed up for? Do I have to
1:25:26accept this? Do I have to? And I did for
1:25:30some time.
1:25:34I did.
1:25:36And then, you know, there was another
1:25:39time when,
1:25:42you know, he got arrested for
1:25:44solicitation.
1:25:45>> Mhm.
1:25:48I was waiting for him in the apartment
1:25:51in New York to come home from the studio
1:25:55>> and I woke up
1:25:57to that.
1:25:59>> Yeah.
1:26:04>> And my phone being on fire like every
1:26:08And I was just like
1:26:17Yeah.
1:26:17>> So, yeah,
1:26:20it was a lot. I am the one that was in
1:26:26the pocket. Somebody after listening to
1:26:30Black Messiah,
1:26:31>> somebody tweeted and I thought it was
1:26:33the cutest thing. I wish I I think I'mma
1:26:37blow it up and put it in a uh [laughter]
1:26:41book in a album, a photo album.
1:26:45>> I can't wait to hear this cuz they've
1:26:47been saying a lot. I'm like, I just
1:26:50>> They said
1:26:52Black Messiah had come out and they
1:26:53said,
1:26:56"I need to know who was
1:27:01cooking D'Angelo's grits this whole time
1:27:06[laughter]
1:27:08to come up with this album,
1:27:10>> wasn't you?"
1:27:11>> And and I responded. I said, "That would
1:27:15be me.
1:27:16>> I know that's right. [laughter]
1:27:18I know that's right.
1:27:20>> That that would be me. [laughter]
1:27:24>> I know that's right.
1:27:25>> And then I um you know that little meme
1:27:28where Homersome comes in [laughter]
1:27:32>> go back into the the bushes.
1:27:38>> Yep.
1:27:39Yep. So, I
1:27:42I took pride in
1:27:45even just that little tweet because it
1:27:47just kind that tweet went viral. I took
1:27:49pride in that. I was like, "Yeah, that's
1:27:53me." [laughter]
1:27:54>> Yeah. Yes. And it's crazy because
1:27:58you I gotta be honest, excuse me for not
1:28:01seeing you and just knowing that there
1:28:06was someone there, you know, like a lot
1:28:09of people, you know, just see Angie and
1:28:12him, but we don't really understand.
1:28:15>> Oh, all the time.
1:28:16>> They just And I'm like there's there h
1:28:18like this man has other children. And
1:28:20there's other dynamics you got to and
1:28:22>> oh my god there's like I told you there
1:28:24are so many love stories. There are so
1:28:26many duo. There's so many duos.
1:28:28[laughter]
1:28:29>> I mean it's like you um and I'm sure
1:28:31you've seen the um the biopic of uh
1:28:36Frankie Lyman
1:28:37>> with
1:28:39and it's like
1:28:40>> Oh, it's very much like that. It's very
1:28:42much like that.
1:28:44>> Yeah. V Vivica, she held that man down.
1:28:48And it's like they tried to villainize
1:28:50her, but it's like when you look into
1:28:51it, it's like she was with this man at
1:28:54his lowest. She was with this man at his
1:28:57peak. She was like it. And then when he
1:29:00was
1:29:01>> told Zola, she still came back and was
1:29:03like, "I'm back in the house." You know?
1:29:05So, it's like
1:29:06>> that
1:29:07>> that Zola Zola is Marcia. [laughter] I'm
1:29:10biblical
1:29:12>> girl. Look, I'm I'm already piecing it
1:29:14together. I already see what [laughter]
1:29:16it is.
1:29:17>> Za's mercy Zola be coming back. I mean,
1:29:20Mercia be coming back every time a deal
1:29:22is signed.
1:29:23>> I'll be like this.
1:29:26>> Here you go with this
1:29:29[laughter]
1:29:31But but but I pulled a Trump card out.
1:29:36No pun intended. I pulled a trump card
1:29:38out when I said, "I'm done.
1:29:42I'm done.
1:29:44>> Yeah.
1:29:45>> And I got chosen
1:29:48by someone else.
1:29:51>> And he's he was mad at me ever since.
1:29:55>> Wow.
1:29:55>> Nobody had ever done that.
1:30:00But he he, you know, the unspeakable
1:30:04happened and I was done.
1:30:10I was stuck.
1:30:12>> I could not.
1:30:15As much as I forgave him and as much as
1:30:19I loved him, even as I was walking away,
1:30:23I could not.
1:30:29And it's that's always in in women's
1:30:32life that walking away from something
1:30:35that you just always gave gave gave
1:30:38yourself to and you just always you just
1:30:41we're so stuck on the potential of what
1:30:43could have been and then the guilt we
1:30:45hold in when it it's time to walk away.
1:30:49And it's like that's the most selfless
1:30:53or selfish that we can ever be because
1:30:57at that point it's like
1:31:00I've spent all this time being selfless,
1:31:03not caring about what I'm doing to
1:31:06myself and how my body is taking in all
1:31:09of these things. And then when we
1:31:11finally get to that point, that is that
1:31:13is the only time that we think about
1:31:16ourselves and
1:31:19that, you know, I connect with you just
1:31:22as a woman. Just like knowing when
1:31:24>> you have to know when that when enough
1:31:27is enough and when my worth starts to
1:31:30trump
1:31:31>> Yeah.
1:31:31>> someone else's needs,
1:31:33>> you know.
1:31:33>> Well, exactly. I mean, cuz there was a
1:31:35that it was a moment where he he looked
1:31:37at me and he didn't see any value in me
1:31:39and I was done.
1:31:42>> And I'm never going to sacrifice myself
1:31:44for a man who looks at me for one second
1:31:46and sees no value in me.
1:31:48>> Yeah.
1:31:49>> And it was really about me not wanting
1:31:53my son to see me in that type of
1:31:55predicament. Mhm.
1:31:57>> And so that is when
1:32:01I saw who
1:32:04Michael could be.
1:32:07And I'm going be honest with you, I
1:32:09think he felt guilt for it so much
1:32:15and he did not want to talk about it. I
1:32:18would bring it. I would say something to
1:32:20like we we did not talk these past like
1:32:24it was just like blurbs of stuff.
1:32:27>> He might hear me speaking while he's
1:32:30speaking to Rocco, but
1:32:34>> his pride was hurt.
1:32:36>> Yeah.
1:32:36>> And he knew he was wrong.
1:32:39>> And I don't think
1:32:43he could face
1:32:46anything. There was never apologies or
1:32:49anything. I never expected that.
1:32:51>> Yeah.
1:32:52>> I wasn't going to get that. I'mma be
1:32:53honest with you. I knew I wasn't going
1:32:55to get that.
1:32:56>> So, waiting for that would be silly on
1:32:58my part.
1:32:59>> Mhm.
1:33:01>> I just had to muscle through it. And I'm
1:33:06going tell you,
1:33:08God allowed my husband to walk into my
1:33:10life because he knew that my loyalty was
1:33:14so thorough that I would have never left
1:33:16Michael.
1:33:17>> Mhm.
1:33:19>> And I would have disintegrated into a
1:33:22shell of myself.
1:33:26>> Nobody has ever turned my head over the
1:33:28years
1:33:30until my husband walked in.
1:33:33>> Wow.
1:33:35my husband. I I never experienced that
1:33:37before. I you know, my husband when a
1:33:40man wants you, he'll come and get you.
1:33:43>> And that's I wasn't looking for a man or
1:33:45anything.
1:33:47As as bad as our relationship had
1:33:50gotten, I still was like, I can't be
1:33:53with nobody else. Nobody else can trump
1:33:55this or top this.
1:33:58Mhm.
1:33:58>> But my husband, he
1:34:02Isaiah Davis loved me back to myself.
1:34:08>> He played music for me that I hadn't
1:34:10heard in years because I was so in this
1:34:15zone of music, this catalog of
1:34:21>> again, we circle back around to I did
1:34:24not have a blueprint. Therefore,
1:34:26anything that was served to me was
1:34:30sufficient.
1:34:31>> Mhm.
1:34:33>> Good or bad.
1:34:37>> But when
1:34:39Isaiah came into my life,
1:34:42he
1:34:44his catalog and tastes of songs and
1:34:47music and um showing me the things that
1:34:52I deserved.
1:34:55Um,
1:34:58it it reminded me of what,
1:35:03you know, the story books tell you, what
1:35:06you deserve as a woman.
1:35:10>> And I was so enamored by how this man
1:35:13came for me.
1:35:18>> My father didn't even come for me.
1:35:22And so when Michael,
1:35:26don't get me wrong, he did things for
1:35:28me, he took care of me, he was very, you
1:35:31know, very sweet to me for the most
1:35:33part. It was definitely be more good
1:35:36than bad.
1:35:37>> Mhm.
1:35:38>> Definitely. And he gave me this
1:35:41beautiful son.
1:35:45Um,
1:35:47but enough was enough. And I had to see
1:35:52in that same capacity in order to break
1:35:54away from him. I had to see the
1:35:59dichotomy of this versus this.
1:36:03>> Yes.
1:36:04>> It was very necessary for me to go
1:36:06through that in that manner because I do
1:36:09not think that I would have had the
1:36:10strength to walk away and be alone
1:36:14>> and build from zero.
1:36:16>> Yeah. I don't think I don't think I
1:36:19because I would have been stuck on
1:36:24I need Rocco to have his father
1:36:26>> and I can forsake my happiness if Roco
1:36:29just have his f you know what I mean
1:36:30like
1:36:32that.
1:36:37So that Yeah.
1:36:39Like and this is not this is not just
1:36:43any man.
1:36:44>> Mhm.
1:36:46My husband is just not any man. Like I
1:36:49always I never thought that I could be
1:36:53I never thought that I could be um
1:36:58with anybody else because I would be
1:37:01like, "Well, he's always he's going to
1:37:03always try to compare
1:37:06>> or he's going to always try to." But I
1:37:08mean,
1:37:10and I walk out here because I want my
1:37:12husband to hear me say this to you.
1:37:15>> That's why that's why I say this to you.
1:37:17My
1:37:19You going to send me out?
1:37:22[laughter]
1:37:25>> I walk out here cuz I want my husband to
1:37:27hear me say this.
1:37:29This man is so self assured in his own
1:37:33being.
1:37:36And when you have someone who
1:37:40when you when you are used to someone
1:37:43who has uh insecurities
1:37:47>> and not to say that we all we all have
1:37:49insecurities,
1:37:52>> but
1:37:54God knew what he was doing when he sent
1:37:57him in my life because it it just made
1:38:01so much sense. It was ordained.
1:38:05It was ordained just the the timing, the
1:38:08way things, you know, lined up like
1:38:10clockwork.
1:38:12>> Yeah.
1:38:14>> So,
1:38:16>> yeah. I had to have the difference. And
1:38:19he was he was self assured and he was
1:38:21gentle and he was kind and there was
1:38:24nothing that I had to do for him to show
1:38:28me that he loved me and he cared for me.
1:38:30>> That was the difference. I didn't have
1:38:33to give him or do anything.
1:38:36He offered
1:38:38>> and I was just like,
1:38:40"Oh,
1:38:42that's how it work." You know, you know,
1:38:45a lot of a lot of culturally, a lot of
1:38:48times we run into situations where we
1:38:54women,
1:38:56>> we putting the cart before the horse and
1:38:58we giving the milk
1:39:00>> before the rain come and all. We got as
1:39:04like for these men now, women have got
1:39:07to do so much
1:39:11>> to prove how loyal and how
1:39:14>> you mean
1:39:18>> Lord.
1:39:20So yeah, it it had to be done in the
1:39:24manner that it that it did.
1:39:27So going towards now, uh I read in
1:39:31People magazine
1:39:34>> that uh D'Angelo was actually diagnosed
1:39:38about 15 months ago.
1:39:40>> 15?
1:39:42>> Yeah, that's 15 months ago.
1:39:45>> Okay. Well, it was July
1:39:49>> of this year.
1:39:52>> Wow.
1:39:53And you know I um
1:39:59going back and watching the documentary
1:40:02I would see moments of him coughing and
1:40:05then he would look into the napkin as if
1:40:07he was you know it was very very quick
1:40:10>> cough and I would see him just glance at
1:40:13it really quick and then you know kind
1:40:15of like put it away and I'm just like
1:40:18did he know that something was going on?
1:40:21was he not telling you know those close
1:40:23to him did did he feel like you know and
1:40:26then listening to the music around that
1:40:29time um some of the songs that he was
1:40:31writing on Black Messiah it's just
1:40:33>> was he expressing that something was
1:40:36wrong or he wasn't feeling himself or
1:40:39time was running short for him
1:40:42>> what was it like from you know if if you
1:40:46do remember of any recollection that hey
1:40:48something's wrong with me to July
1:40:51receiving a diagnosis.
1:40:55>> Well,
1:40:59when Rocka was three, he was in hospital
1:41:03with pancreatitis
1:41:07>> and
1:41:10the doctors would tell him
1:41:13stuff.
1:41:16And at one point I you know we me and
1:41:19Roco had come up from Virginia
1:41:22was in the hospital and
1:41:30the doctors were in the room and they
1:41:33basically turned to me. It was three
1:41:34doctors.
1:41:36>> Mhm.
1:41:38>> And they said,
1:41:40you know,
1:41:43we have got to tell you what's going on
1:41:46because he's
1:41:48not acting as if it's
1:41:52he's not reacting to it. He's not open
1:41:55to ask what can be done or whatever.
1:42:00He's hearing what we're saying, but he's
1:42:01not. So they were like reaching out to
1:42:04me. Do you understand? Does he
1:42:05understand
1:42:07that
1:42:09there needs to be a complete change?
1:42:15>> There needs to be a complete change of
1:42:17diet. There needs to be a complete
1:42:19change of he has to quit smoking and all
1:42:22of this.
1:42:25And I looked at them and I was like,
1:42:28I know why you frustrated.
1:42:31And I said, "I hear what you're saying
1:42:33and he hears what you're saying, but he
1:42:35doesn't want to,
1:42:40you know, react in the way that you
1:42:43expect somebody to react."
1:42:46I'm going to be honest with you. Michael
1:42:49liked who he was.
1:42:52He was comfortable in his practices
1:42:57and
1:43:01he knew that it was going to take a lot
1:43:03to change.
1:43:05>> Mhm.
1:43:06>> And I don't think he felt he had it in
1:43:09him to change.
1:43:10>> He liked who he was. He liked He liked
1:43:13the He liked the um
1:43:20the term like the stoner.
1:43:22>> Yeah,
1:43:23>> he liked that.
1:43:28>> He like I remember Rocco asked him to
1:43:31let me see who who asked him to I think
1:43:34Imani or Rocco asked him why are you
1:43:36smoking daddy? You stop smok
1:43:40I ain't gonna stop smoking. H
1:43:43>> he liked that persona.
1:43:46>> Yeah.
1:43:48>> He liked the persona. The persona
1:43:50protected him.
1:43:55>> And so he was very
1:43:58offguard
1:44:00without the persona.
1:44:02>> Yeah.
1:44:04So
1:44:07that was you know he felt protected by
1:44:10the person
1:44:13of Neandel.
1:44:17>> Now did you see any change in him uh
1:44:21after receiving the news of Angie's
1:44:23passing? What was that like on him?
1:44:27>> I didn't I didn't see any change in him.
1:44:32um his family he had he's had so many
1:44:36people pass away this year
1:44:39>> last year he just buried his mother and
1:44:42before that two years before that he
1:44:44just buried his father
1:44:47>> so it was just
1:44:52like I said he was mad at me
1:44:55>> he was mad at me for whatever reason and
1:44:59I'm not going to pretend to know
1:45:01>> Mhm. Mhm.
1:45:02>> But
1:45:06I mean, all I know is I stopped playing
1:45:10the games with him that he
1:45:13and I was done.
1:45:14>> Yeah.
1:45:15>> And I moved on and
1:45:18he was mad about that.
1:45:20>> Yeah.
1:45:22So, and I don't you know whatever else
1:45:28but um it was July where he got this
1:45:32stage 4
1:45:34um
1:45:36diagnosis
1:45:38and of course he's going to try to keep
1:45:41it private and he didn't even know when
1:45:44the kids were coming when we sent when I
1:45:46sent Rocco up there and then I came
1:45:49shortly after that because I wanted to
1:45:53again I have a family. I have two sons,
1:45:56not one.
1:45:57>> Mhm. Mhm.
1:45:59>> So I, you know, and I have a husband.
1:46:03>> Mhm. So, and I have a job, you know. So,
1:46:07I sent Rocco and then
1:46:10when I saw him in his face
1:46:14on FaceTime that he was kind of like
1:46:18not receiving him seeing his dad in pain
1:46:21very well. I was like, I'm out. I'm
1:46:23going to get my son.
1:46:25>> Yeah.
1:46:26>> So,
1:46:30I hope I answered your question.
1:46:32>> Yeah.
1:46:34It definitely brings into perspective
1:46:37just because a lot of people are saying
1:46:40he he fought a a silent battle or a
1:46:43private battle
1:46:45but there were people around him
1:46:48>> there were I don't know when he decided
1:46:50to
1:46:52well he didn't because he told he told
1:46:55Rocco
1:46:56he told Rocco the night before he passed
1:46:59he said it's not my time
1:47:02And Rocco believed him
1:47:05>> and that's why Rocco died because he's
1:47:08always gotten a Hail Mary. He's like a
1:47:11cat with nine lives. Like he always
1:47:14and so everybody was expecting him to
1:47:17pull through.
1:47:18>> Oh yeah. Bounce back.
1:47:20>> Well, I know medical industry. My
1:47:24family, everybody is in the medical
1:47:27industry.
1:47:28And they kept saying, you know, the kids
1:47:30were like, well, they're going to move
1:47:31him to some place where he could be more
1:47:34comfortable. And I'm like,
1:47:36>> hospice?
1:47:37>> That means hospice? Why are they not
1:47:39calling it hospice?
1:47:42>> I know what hospice is.
1:47:44>> Mhm.
1:47:45>> And then they calling it comfort care.
1:47:48I'm like,
1:47:49are y'all like trying to not,
1:47:52>> you know? So I I I knew
1:48:01But
1:48:06I told Malcolm, his assistant,
1:48:10he said, he asked me in the hospital, he
1:48:13said, "Are you good?" I said, "You know
1:48:15what?"
1:48:17I said, "I am good." And I said,
1:48:19"Because God allowed me to mourn him a
1:48:22long time ago.
1:48:28I had to start mourning him in 2015 when
1:48:30I had to be deaf.
1:48:34>> That's what I meant
1:48:36by God has prepared me for this
1:48:39>> because I've had 10 years
1:48:43to
1:48:46more in the relationship, more in this,
1:48:48more in that. I've had 10 years therapy
1:48:55>> were things that were unsaid, apologies
1:48:58that were not had, conversations that
1:49:01needed to be but were not.
1:49:04>> That's a lot.
1:49:05>> Yeah.
1:49:07>> But God gave me the grace to have 10
1:49:09years and get it out of my system.
1:49:12That's why, and I'm not saying I don't
1:49:14mourn now. I'm definitely grieving,
1:49:17>> but
1:49:20the priority right now is Rocco.
1:49:23>> That's right.
1:49:24>> I have to be present and available for
1:49:27him.
1:49:28>> I cannot be stuck in we never said and
1:49:31he didn't had a conversation and I
1:49:34can't.
1:49:35>> Yeah.
1:49:36>> It's It's not It doesn't even matter.
1:49:39It hasn't mattered for the longest time,
1:49:40but you get what I'm saying.
1:49:42>> Yeah. I have I God gave me a jump on
1:49:45mourning him so I can get that out the
1:49:47way and so I could
1:49:50focus
1:49:53>> not only on Rocco, but I also have, you
1:49:55know, my baby boy.
1:49:57>> I have a husband.
1:50:00>> I got enough on my plate. I got a family
1:50:03right here.
1:50:05>> Yeah.
1:50:06>> So, I just have to,
1:50:08you know, I'm very thankful for that.
1:50:12I'm thank I'm thankful for the ability
1:50:16to see my blessings. I'm thankful for
1:50:19the ability to hear God's word.
1:50:23>> Yeah.
1:50:24>> I'm thankful for the ability
1:50:28to be obedient.
1:50:35>> And that's it.
1:50:37It was a It was a wild ride. I loved
1:50:40every minute of it.
1:50:42Um,
1:50:44but it's a chapter in a book and I have
1:50:47to put it away
1:50:50because there are so many things coming
1:50:52up going forward
1:50:56that I have no clue about and I have to
1:50:58have make space for that.
1:51:04Honestly, I was talking to my husband
1:51:08and I said, you know, he's done enough
1:51:12in this life and he's tired.
1:51:16I think Mike was tired and he just
1:51:21he's done enough. He may have said to
1:51:24Roco, you know,
1:51:27I
1:51:30it's not my time yet.
1:51:34Maybe that was the hope that he had for
1:51:36himself.
1:51:38>> Maybe he was just trying to soothe his
1:51:4115year-old son.
1:51:45>> I don't know.
1:51:48But
1:51:51>> yeah,
1:51:52>> and I think that's,
1:51:55you know, a good thought to leave this
1:51:59conversation with is the fact that, you
1:52:02know, we don't want things that, you
1:52:06know, we hold on to to end.
1:52:10>> And,
1:52:12you know, like I think about the role
1:52:14that you played in Mike's life.
1:52:17being that one to that hail Mary that
1:52:19I'mma always be there. I'mma always be
1:52:21there. I'mma always be there. And then
1:52:23that last act of my son needs me. I got
1:52:26to get on that plane or I got to go to
1:52:28my son. It's like
1:52:31I'm sure
1:52:33it triggered or woke woken up a part of
1:52:37you that you hadn't felt in a while. And
1:52:41it's like,
1:52:43you know, that's your last time that you
1:52:47would
1:52:49go to Mike, but
1:52:53>> who you were going for
1:52:57>> son was Rocco. Mhm.
1:52:59>> And
1:53:01I think that that right there
1:53:05is ironically God's way of giving you
1:53:08closure.
1:53:09>> Mhm.
1:53:10>> Closing that chapter and seeing
1:53:12>> and the fact and the fact that
1:53:17Rocco and his brother and his sister,
1:53:19they were able to sit and talk with him
1:53:22>> and they were able to have those two or
1:53:23three days
1:53:25from the 10th to the 13th. they was able
1:53:29to have those days to laugh and talk and
1:53:32they got jokes that they were telling in
1:53:35there and they got pictures and
1:53:38you know what I mean? So they had that
1:53:40time and
1:53:43I didn't go
1:53:46before he passed. I just showed up the
1:53:50same morning he passed.
1:53:52>> It wasn't meant for me to say anything
1:53:54to him.
1:53:55>> Mhm.
1:53:56It wasn't meant for me to say that. I
1:53:58didn't really want us to go in there and
1:54:00say anything to him.
1:54:02>> Um
1:54:04because honestly the loose ends that we
1:54:08had,
1:54:10they were tied up. And um and I don't
1:54:13know if you believe or ever had a dream
1:54:17and spoke to somebody
1:54:19>> Mhm.
1:54:20>> within a dream.
1:54:21>> Yeah.
1:54:24I dreamt about him a couple times this
1:54:28year
1:54:30and
1:54:32two years ago I dreamt about him.
1:54:36Maybe last year I dreamt about him. But
1:54:39I say all that to say
1:54:44the demeanor of what we were doing like
1:54:47we were trying to get something working.
1:54:50It was like a machine or something
1:54:52working and it was wild because
1:54:57>> we were working as a team
1:55:02>> and it was so like normal.
1:55:05Nobody was upset. Nobody was It was just
1:55:08a matter of fact that we were
1:55:12talking and I was like, "Well, what are
1:55:14you doing?" And he was like, "I'm doing
1:55:15this here. I'm here. Take this." You
1:55:18know, you understand what I'm saying?
1:55:19Like in that capacity of working
1:55:21together and I woke up with a sense of
1:55:26peace
1:55:28>> that everything
1:55:31was good
1:55:34between us.
1:55:37>> And I feel like it happened that way
1:55:38because
1:55:40his pride
1:55:43was so hurt and he didn't want to fold
1:55:45on
1:55:47admitting you know the inongruences of
1:55:52what happened.
1:55:54>> I think it was so much for him. It was
1:55:56guilt. It was so many things.
1:55:58>> Mhm.
1:55:59>> It was embarrassment.
1:56:00>> Mhm.
1:56:02>> So
1:56:05we good.
1:56:07>> Wow.
1:56:08>> We good.
1:56:11Now, how is how is uh Rocco doing now?
1:56:16It's touch and go
1:56:18>> because you see how playful he was
1:56:20earlier.
1:56:21>> Yeah.
1:56:22>> But like I don't really He's actually
1:56:26talked to my husband more
1:56:28>> Yeah.
1:56:28>> about it than me. And I'm happy to see
1:56:32that.
1:56:33>> Yeah.
1:56:35And um but
1:56:39I aim to talk to him or ask him later
1:56:41how does he feel about
1:56:44seeing all this stuff come up with his
1:56:47father because
1:56:51that's not necessarily the man he knows
1:56:53either.
1:56:54>> Mhm.
1:56:56>> Yeah.
1:56:57>> So
1:57:00and I don't you know he's talked with my
1:57:03husband. My husband has shared some
1:57:04things that he said. It's kind of like
1:57:06matter of fact. And he's just like,
1:57:10you really can't argue with that because
1:57:12that's the boy's experience.
1:57:14>> Mhm.
1:57:16Now, I I seen some videos that you were
1:57:19sharing um of D'Angelo,
1:57:24you know, showing Rocco the fundamentals
1:57:27of funk.
1:57:29[laughter]
1:57:30I I was just so tickled by that. I I
1:57:33love that that you're sharing those
1:57:35moments.
1:57:36>> Um,
1:57:37>> has he passed down any musical traits to
1:57:40Rocco? Is he in the music? Is he
1:57:42musically inclined?
1:57:44>> Very much.
1:57:45>> Wow.
1:57:45>> Rocco plays piano. Rocco's been playing
1:57:48since he was four.
1:57:49>> Wow.
1:57:50>> Rocco plays trombone. Rocco plays bass
1:57:53guitar.
1:57:54>> Roco play Rocco plays
1:57:59>> Yeah. Let me see. Get you.
1:58:03Let me see if y
1:58:05Hold on one second.
1:58:09Rock, I'mma tell you in a second.
1:58:12>> Honey, can you um
1:58:14>> Honey, can you get rock that rock?
1:58:20>> Okay.
1:58:21>> Yeah, that's what he said he mean.
1:58:29[laughter]
1:58:30>> Yeah, in a few minutes. Rocco when when
1:58:32Z is done. Okay.
1:58:39>> So, um
1:58:43yeah, I mean he's like said Roco does
1:58:46play everything.
1:58:48>> Roco plays everything just like Mike.
1:58:50Mike gave him his ear.
1:58:52>> Wow.
1:58:53>> Roco plays by ear. He doesn't read.
1:58:58>> Hears and he can play it. He can play on
1:59:01the piano. He can play on the guitar.
1:59:05>> Michael is everything that he has to
1:59:08rock.
1:59:10>> I don't know. You know, both all of the
1:59:12children are talented.
1:59:14>> Yeah,
1:59:15>> they are.
1:59:18But
1:59:21Roco got a lot
1:59:24and he's driven musically. I know you
1:59:28heard him playing his trombone earlier.
1:59:30Mhm.
1:59:33>> He's driven in the same manner. Um,
1:59:36Rocco has always wanted to
1:59:39make music. I struggled in the beginning
1:59:42because I was like,
1:59:45I don't want people to put that on him.
1:59:51>> But very, very young. before he could
1:59:54stand up, he was rocking his head.
1:59:58>> And he he's very musically inclined. Um
2:00:04himo County
2:00:06uh gifted him a proclamation in honor of
2:00:09his father
2:00:12>> homecoming this past Friday.
2:00:16Um I'll send you a copy of that so you
2:00:19can see it.
2:00:20>> Thank you.
2:00:21and um
2:00:24they honored him, you know, before on
2:00:27the football field and gifted him the
2:00:30proclamation and everything. So,
2:00:33>> um he's in the marching band
2:00:38>> and he already wants to go to HBCU.
2:00:41>> I know that's right. I know that.
2:00:45>> Where does he want to go? VS VSU.
2:00:48Mm- He wants to go to
2:00:51Norfolk State or Jackson State.
2:00:54>> Oh, okay.
2:00:56>> Yeah, that's that's what he's talking
2:00:57about. I told him, "Can we just apply to
2:01:01FAMU?"
2:01:02[laughter]
2:01:06>> Look, you gonna come to sign today with
2:01:08your little hat in the stash like, "It's
2:01:09never late. It's never too [laughter]
2:01:11late,
2:01:13>> girl. Let that boy choose his school."
2:01:16>> Yeah, I'mma let him. I'mma let him. that
2:01:18I'm going we we going to fill out all
2:01:20the applications and I'm trying to
2:01:22figure out
2:01:23>> who's given the best scholarship.
2:01:25>> Mhm. [laughter]
2:01:27>> Yep.
2:01:30>> So that's what all of that's about.
2:01:34>> Wow. And it it kind of also,
2:01:38you know,
2:01:40prophesied his last message to Rocco. My
2:01:44time isn't up. His time isn't up.
2:01:49That's his marching orders. And I feel
2:01:53like he understands that matter of fact,
2:01:57that that attitude that that he he gets
2:02:01it. He'll he'll start to understand it.
2:02:04It'll start to unfold itself. And you
2:02:07know those children who you know are
2:02:12given that birthright that that legacy
2:02:17like you didn't have to ask where it was
2:02:18just passed down you know I I see that
2:02:22you know I have seven or six brothers
2:02:25and sisters so I can see what traits
2:02:28were passed down from my father to each
2:02:31and every one of us and
2:02:33>> you know my music my love for music.
2:02:36That's something that I got from my
2:02:38father. My songwriting, that's something
2:02:41I got from my mother. So, I get it.
2:02:44Every every aspect of knowing when to
2:02:48hear marching orders, when your parents
2:02:49say certain things to you, and knowing
2:02:52what to keep and never let go of. And
2:02:56you know, I I just know that he is going
2:02:58to do some great things. Um, and and
2:03:00really
2:03:02take just his father's legacy and take
2:03:07it to realms that I'm pretty sure
2:03:10D'Angelo probably couldn't have seen or
2:03:12pe those around him probably.
2:03:15>> He's got he's definitely got a village.
2:03:18>> He's definitely got
2:03:20people that say they going to look out
2:03:24for him.
2:03:25Um, Rocco has options. I told Rocco,
2:03:28Rocco has so many options he has no clue
2:03:31about. He has no He's not able to wrap
2:03:33his head around it.
2:03:35>> Yeah.
2:03:35>> Um, it's so many people who are,
2:03:39and I tell him in his studies, I'm like,
2:03:41"Get
2:03:43in there and learn how to read this
2:03:45music and learn how to do this." I said,
2:03:47"I need you to be able to feed yourself.
2:03:48I want you to compose." Uh-huh.
2:03:52>> And um I've been putting him in piano
2:03:55lessons since he was five.
2:04:00So um he auditioned for
2:04:05the performing arts school and got it
2:04:09>> because he sang an opera song in
2:04:12Italian.
2:04:14>> Wow. Gifted. He's gifted.
2:04:17>> Let me tell you.
2:04:19>> Wow. I think he and right now I think he
2:04:22short changes himself sometimes because
2:04:27he's hanging on
2:04:30what
2:04:33the popular music is.
2:04:35>> Mhm.
2:04:36>> And he's trying to do that. He's yet to
2:04:39find his sound.
2:04:42>> You know how when you're in middle
2:04:44school, everybody wants to just be
2:04:46accepted? I think that's where he's at
2:04:48right now. Yeah,
2:04:49>> cuz he wants to rap and he makes he's
2:04:52he's produced a lot of stuff. We put
2:04:53equipment in his room and everything.
2:04:57>> So, he's
2:05:00gathered his beats and he rhymes over
2:05:02the beats and all that stuff. And he's
2:05:04got a um he's got music on
2:05:08Soundcloud. Yeah, he's got music.
2:05:10>> Okay. I'm have to check him out.
2:05:12>> Yes.
2:05:13>> Do a write up or two.
2:05:14>> Yeah.
2:05:15>> Yes. I love doing writeups.
2:05:17And and it's it's funny because you
2:05:20know, you know, I've been singing since
2:05:23I was in elementary school, but my love
2:05:26for music has transformed into media
2:05:30journalism now.
2:05:31>> Yeah.
2:05:31>> I I like listening and
2:05:35giving the the best explanation of how
2:05:39that song makes me feel, you know?
2:05:41>> Yeah, that's so cool. He he's going to
2:05:44go through so many change. Like I went
2:05:47through the rapper phase, I went through
2:05:49the poet phase and the he's going to go
2:05:52through such a transformation.
2:05:55But you guys have put, you know, five,
2:05:58you know, putting him in, you know,
2:06:01piano lessons. You know, you started him
2:06:04off on the right track and
2:06:06>> piano lessons. He's already been in
2:06:08talent shows in middle school. He's
2:06:11>> He's only 15.
2:06:13>> Yeah. And he's done like
2:06:15like exhibition performances and stuff
2:06:18like that. He's
2:06:21>> he's done he's he's he's ready to do his
2:06:25thing.
2:06:25>> Yeah. [clears throat]
2:06:26>> And I tell him all the time how blessed
2:06:28he is to know exactly what you want to
2:06:30do
2:06:32>> from the moment you know you're alive.
2:06:35Mhm.
2:06:36>> But um yeah, I mean if you post on my
2:06:40Instagram way down there, you'll see him
2:06:43when he's little
2:06:44>> and how he's,
2:06:47you know, being himself. But
2:06:50I'll be happy when he gets his
2:06:52refinement and he really levels up to
2:06:55his abilities. Like I said, he's
2:06:59he got to be a rhy a rapper and
2:07:01everything right now.
2:07:04Is he influenced by his older brother
2:07:06Michael when it comes?
2:07:07>> Yes. Oh my god.
2:07:08>> I bet. I bet.
2:07:09>> Yes. Yes.
2:07:11>> He calls his brother. His brothers tells
2:07:13him how to do stuff, what to do. And his
2:07:17brother's recent advice was stop trying.
2:07:20He was like, "We need a manager. We need
2:07:22this." Mike said, "Men, when
2:07:28when the time come, people are going to
2:07:29come get you. like stop trying to do all
2:07:32this and this and that. And he's just
2:07:35got fire in him. That's what it is. He
2:07:38just wants to do it now now. Now now now
2:07:43>> and he's from this generation that
2:07:46that's what they understand.
2:07:50>> And does he does he receive any guidance
2:07:52from his older sister Armani?
2:07:55Yeah, he looks but she be she be busy in
2:07:58the in her she's got her own life and
2:08:02she's you know unfolding into her own
2:08:05but he definitely the three of them
2:08:07definitely communicate um that's
2:08:09something that me and Angie had talked
2:08:13about
2:08:14and we always wanted them and I told you
2:08:18know to have that um
2:08:22Mike and I I told Mike I said you was my
2:08:26baby before I had a baby. Like I
2:08:28remember when he was little, like that
2:08:30video sended on um where he was little,
2:08:34I was there.
2:08:36>> Wow.
2:08:36>> I was I was sitting next to
2:08:42Mike's mother in the crowd and Angie was
2:08:46sitting in the row in front of me and we
2:08:49were in the w the boxes on the side. So,
2:08:55we've been around
2:08:57>> Yeah.
2:08:58>> for a while. And um
2:09:03you know, that's why the relationship
2:09:05that Mike Junior and I have, you know,
2:09:08he knows he can call me at the drop of a
2:09:10hat.
2:09:13And and I told when I told Angie like we
2:09:17talk and we say our boys,
2:09:21>> you know what I mean? Like that's how we
2:09:23talked. Even my husband said, "I miss
2:09:26Angie cuz y'all used to be on the phone
2:09:28cackling [laughter]
2:09:31like
2:09:32>> now you all up in my hair."
2:09:35>> He said, "Y'all be in Yeah, y'all be in
2:09:38in there cackling." He's trying to give
2:09:42He be trying to give her her accolades
2:09:44and and her flowers and she's steady
2:09:47talking about Mike and all his
2:09:49shenanigans. [laughter]
2:09:54What you
2:09:56>> like? I gotta prove every night my love
2:09:57for this woman.
2:09:58>> Babe, baby, what you say? What' you say
2:10:01when you said you was trying to um
2:10:04tell Angie you want to hear more music
2:10:07and she be doing what? [laughter]
2:10:10You said that you trying to give her her
2:10:12flowers and all she's sitting there
2:10:14doing is
2:10:14>> in the background of Michael [laughter]
2:10:19talking about D'Angelo. I don't want to
2:10:21talk about him. [laughter]
2:10:27>> That is what I'm trying to tell you.
2:10:29Like we used to be that. And a lot of
2:10:32times we all stuck.
2:10:34>> Are we all Oh, yeah. My husband said
2:10:35that all of us are stuck. Stuck. He said
2:10:39[laughter] we stuck. He's like, "Yeah,
2:10:40whatever. All y'all stuck.
2:10:43[laughter]
2:10:44>> Me, Angie, and Marcia, we stuck."
2:10:46>> What's the hairdresser name? Renee. And
2:10:48the single background.
2:10:53No,
2:10:55I'm not stuck. I've moved on. [laughter]
2:11:00He said to hell. He said to hell you.
2:11:02Ain't you over there doing some
2:11:03interview? That's what the problem is.
2:11:05[laughter]
2:11:07And that's real life for you.
2:11:10>> Yes. Well, I thank you so much for
2:11:13giving just allowing me to be in this
2:11:18space with you. Um it it I learned so
2:11:21much just as a woman myself.
2:11:23>> You're very personable and so that's in
2:11:26your favor
2:11:27>> because I would not be
2:11:31so kind as to like share but I like
2:11:35authenticity.
2:11:37>> Yes, ma'am. I appreciate I I didn't even
2:11:39get to any of my questions because
2:11:41>> why?
2:11:42>> No, listen. I just feel like that is the
2:11:45>> you asked me like two or three. what I
2:11:49read. Yeah, I asked you about two or
2:11:50three, but I just feel like those other
2:11:52questions, we'll see them pop up again
2:11:54with in an interview with Quest Love or
2:11:57But you gave me tonight,
2:12:00what you gave us um was healing. And for
2:12:04me as a young woman, you know, um
2:12:07navigating my own life and you know,
2:12:11dealing with the man in my life, um
2:12:15>> it's definitely gave me healing. Um, and
2:12:18in a new word, womanism, you know,
2:12:22>> look up the womanist movement.
2:12:24[clears throat]
2:12:25Look it up.
2:12:26>> I've never heard of that. But
2:12:27>> girl, girl,
2:12:29>> don't me don't get me on my soap box.
2:12:33>> Listen, you going to get me out on to
2:12:35Raleighs and everything. Go.
2:12:36>> Oh my god. It's the woman is Look, I
2:12:40have How can I look at me now? I'm old.
2:12:44Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a
2:12:46minute. Let me see.
2:12:49What is this? Flip my screen around.
2:12:52Where did it go? Oh, there it is.
2:12:55>> Baby.
2:12:56>> What? Yeah.
2:12:59>> Oh, wow. African-American studies.
2:13:03>> Yes.
2:13:05>> Yes.
2:13:05>> And and my other degree is in
2:13:07psychology. And I'm going to get my
2:13:09master's I'm starting my master's
2:13:12program um in the fall of 26.
2:13:15Congratulations
2:13:17>> in um
2:13:21theater and the pedagogy of performance.
2:13:25>> Wow.
2:13:26>> Oh yeah.
2:13:28>> Congratulations.
2:13:29>> I'm going to text you um about the
2:13:31womanist movement. I'mma text you. It's
2:13:33so many books on it.
2:13:34>> Please do. Please do.
2:13:36>> So many books on it. And um yeah.
2:13:40>> Wow.
2:13:41>> It is what it is. This story is nothing
2:13:43new. It's it's stuff. It's a story that
2:13:46we've all gone through.
2:13:48>> And
2:13:50just to tell you like, you know, Mike is
2:13:54everything that everybody says he is,
2:13:57but that's about 30 or 40%.
2:14:00>> There's so many things, you know, he's
2:14:03very human man. He was a very human man,
2:14:07and he had to balance those gifts and
2:14:11his humanity.
2:14:14kind of reminds you of somebody
2:14:17everybody knows.
2:14:19>> He's the R&B Jesus.
2:14:25>> The Black Messiah.
2:14:26>> That's right.
2:14:29>> Real quick, when he I'mma tell you how
2:14:33how nervous he was about Black Messiah
2:14:36going out.
2:14:37>> He met he we were living in Santa Monica
2:14:40in California.
2:14:42>> Mhm. And he went and visit Sly Stone
2:14:46for the first time. He went to his
2:14:48house.
2:14:48>> What?
2:14:49>> And I remember I remember the first time
2:14:51when he went to his house.
2:14:54>> And I also remember when he did that we
2:14:57were living in San Francisco and he did
2:15:00that interview with um the Black
2:15:02Panther. Mhm.
2:15:05>> I remember both times when he came home
2:15:07and he was just so enamored by them
2:15:10both. More so Sly, but both of them were
2:15:16like it was we were together when uh
2:15:20Barack was elected. Like
2:15:24>> I remember all Yeah. These are this was
2:15:27in 2008. Yep.
2:15:30>> Wow.
2:15:32that that that interview with Black
2:15:35Panther,
2:15:37>> I feel like that interview was to me the
2:15:40most that I've ever seen. Like his eyes
2:15:42were just so like like popping out of
2:15:45his head. He's like he was so
2:15:48>> He was ready. He was ready.
2:15:50>> Like and I'm like dang like he was so
2:15:53into the moment. So
2:15:54>> Oh, he's always he's always been like
2:15:56that.
2:15:57He's always been into like,
2:16:02you know, just
2:16:04blackness.
2:16:05>> Yeah.
2:16:06>> He's always been pro black.
2:16:08>> He's always, you know, he's
2:16:12there's so many things that I will say
2:16:14that
2:16:17he did not do there. It was undone. so
2:16:21many things that he wanted to do.
2:16:26But right before um
2:16:31Black Messiah came out, when he was
2:16:33trying to figure out whether he wanted
2:16:35to name it Black Messiah or not,
2:16:39>> he went to talk to Sly and meet him and
2:16:42everything and Sly was talking about
2:16:44doing some
2:16:46doing a new album
2:16:48and he was like, "Maybe I should go work
2:16:52and produce on Sly's album." And I said,
2:16:57Why are you trying to avoid putting this
2:16:59album out?
2:17:02>> And he was like, "No, it's just not
2:17:04ready. It's just not." He said, I said,
2:17:07"That's not true."
2:17:10>> I was like, "You really are scared." And
2:17:13literally his albums
2:17:16are like babies.
2:17:18>> Like he does not want to give it.
2:17:21He does not want to give it because he
2:17:23feels like it's, you know, it's his.
2:17:29>> Do you think that this last album he was
2:17:32working on, um, a lot of people have
2:17:35mixed emotions? One, for one, I I feel
2:17:38as if,
2:17:40you know, like you're saying, his albums
2:17:42were his babies, you know, and he didn't
2:17:46put it out until it felt right for him
2:17:48to put it out.
2:17:50>> Yeah. Well, uh, Voodoo,
2:17:54>> wait.
2:17:59Oh, Black Messiah. They um they put it
2:18:03out without him knowing.
2:18:05>> Really?
2:18:08>> Really?
2:18:08>> I remember when they put the album out,
2:18:10he was like, "They took Mommy." Yeah.
2:18:12The label put it out.
2:18:14>> What? He was so mad.
2:18:18>> He was so mad.
2:18:21And some would say that is one of the
2:18:22best works.
2:18:24>> I love Black Messiah. I
2:18:26>> I'm telling you, it's
2:18:27>> I'm glad I'm glad that was my era.
2:18:31>> Yes. [laughter]
2:18:32Cuz look, I'm now I'm going back and I
2:18:34understand like the muse behind it all.
2:18:39Like that album is deep. That album is
2:18:42deep. Mhm.
2:18:43>> And hearing how deep y'all were,
2:18:46>> man. I appreciate it a little bit more
2:18:50now.
2:18:51>> And do you feel like
2:18:55>> you know Ken, you know, do you know
2:18:56Kendra?
2:18:58>> K. No, I don't.
2:18:59>> The girl saying backup back.
2:19:01>> Yes. So, yes. So, yes, I do know who she
2:19:04is.
2:19:05>> Yeah,
2:19:07that was his current girlfriend.
2:19:09>> Oh. Was was she the one who actually
2:19:11toured with him?
2:19:14>> Okay. I I kind of felt that during the
2:19:16um
2:19:18>> during the uh documentary. I felt that
2:19:21it was kind of like there was something
2:19:23but they weren't trying to show it on
2:19:26camera.
2:19:26>> He wasn't trying He wasn't trying to
2:19:28show it.
2:19:28>> Yeah. He wasn't trying to show it on
2:19:30camera, but I picked up on it, you know.
2:19:33So,
2:19:34>> yeah.
2:19:35>> Did you see you saw Rocco?
2:19:37>> Yeah.
2:19:38>> In the documentary.
2:19:40[laughter]
2:19:40I I I I have to watch it again. I'm I'm
2:19:43I'm a person that if I feel like I
2:19:46missed something or if I feel like, oh,
2:19:48wait, this might have better meaning
2:19:50now, I'mma go back and watch it like as
2:19:52many times I as I have to. Um,
2:19:55>> so how did you how did you did you just
2:19:57find a copy of it?
2:19:58>> So, uh, on threads, someone had posted a
2:20:02link to like a Vimeo type website
2:20:06>> and that's how I found it. So, I was to
2:20:08get the but a lot of people have been
2:20:10saying like they've been finding the
2:20:11links and then one day it's up and then
2:20:13the next day it's gone. So,
2:20:15>> I don't know if the link that I had is
2:20:16still up. I can go back and check. Um,
2:20:19>> yeah.
2:20:19>> But yeah, I've been I've been like
2:20:21trying to find this docu when people
2:20:22said it was out there. I'm like, I got
2:20:24to watch it. I got to watch it. So, I
2:20:25found it and I watched it twice in one
2:20:27day. Like I just watched it the first
2:20:28time and then I watched it again. Um,
2:20:31but I definitely want to go back and and
2:20:33and just watch it and knowing what was
2:20:37going on now and seeing if if I'm able
2:20:41to pick up on something
2:20:42>> pick up on some things. I um but yeah,
2:20:46about the you said about him coughing or
2:20:49looking. I don't know if that was
2:20:52anything. I don't
2:20:54>> It may have. I mean, Mike smokes so
2:20:56much.
2:20:58>> Yeah. ever like seen
2:21:00>> Mike Mike went through like he could do
2:21:03two packs a day.
2:21:05>> Whoa. Yeah.
2:21:07>> Yeah.
2:21:08>> Mhm. And my mom, she's a um a nurse. And
2:21:11I know when uh we were like when I had
2:21:13broke the news to them because like
2:21:15literally I was at work and a friend of
2:21:17mine text me and was like gave me the
2:21:20news and I I immediately called my mom
2:21:22and I called my dad and I was like
2:21:25refreshing my page until I found what
2:21:28would happen. And my mom, she's a nurse,
2:21:30so she's like, "Yeah, you know,
2:21:33pancreatic cancer if you smoke, that's
2:21:37like, and I'm like, dang." So, you know,
2:21:41that, you know, this whole situation, it
2:21:45has been a eye openener to so many
2:21:47people who literally idolized D'Angelo.
2:21:51Mhm.
2:21:52>> And it's like y'all got to take,
2:21:54especially as black men, you have to
2:21:57take better care of yourselves because
2:22:01historically
2:22:03this country has used black men as
2:22:05mules. So all they have done was work,
2:22:08work, work, work, work, work, work,
2:22:10work. And if they did detect there was
2:22:13something wrong with them or
2:22:15health-wise, it would always be because
2:22:16of a woman, because of whatever woman
2:22:19that cared enough in his life to say,
2:22:21"Listen, you got to slow down because X,
2:22:23Y, and Z."
2:22:25>> And this is just an eye openener for a
2:22:27lot of black men to be more conscious of
2:22:30your health. You're not young forever.
2:22:32Even like my father, he's 52, 53.
2:22:36>> Yeah.
2:22:36>> And I got to tell like dad, you got to
2:22:38cut cut the steaks. Like you eating too
2:22:40many. you eating a steak once a week.
2:22:42And I mean, like, have you gotten a
2:22:44colon check? So,
2:22:45>> yeah,
2:22:46>> these things, you know, we got to, you
2:22:48know, start telling our young black men,
2:22:52you know, you have to just stop and
2:22:54pause and think about yourself. You
2:22:57can't just be in the moment all the time
2:22:59or thinking that
2:23:00>> our decisions and how we live our
2:23:02>> God, baby. Good job.
2:23:06>> Going to have time to catch up to us.
2:23:08So, right. It's important that we
2:23:12>> as black people start to
2:23:16see the worth in ourselves.
2:23:18>> That's right.
2:23:20>> See,
2:23:21>> see that we're just not a culmination of
2:23:23what we can do.
2:23:24>> Yes. Or what we've been through.
2:23:26[clears throat]
2:23:26You know what I'm saying? Like
2:23:28>> Yeah.
2:23:29And
2:23:31you know, that's what this whole thing
2:23:33has really, you know,
2:23:37opened my eyes to is that D'Angelo being
2:23:40such a great person musically and what
2:23:42we've seen, you know, he still was just
2:23:45human. Um, he still was just human.
2:23:50>> So,
2:23:51>> you have I, you know, Allah, that's who
2:23:55I call God. That's who I pray to.
2:23:59I I heard you when I seen that post and
2:24:02I was just and I didn't I didn't follow
2:24:04you before. It literally must have came
2:24:06on my feed because all I had been doing
2:24:08was talking about D'Angelo, you know,
2:24:10just talking about how like paying
2:24:12homage to how I've studied him
2:24:14musically.
2:24:15>> Yes.
2:24:16>> You popped up and I just read the post
2:24:18and I'm like, this looks like something
2:24:19my mom would say. This looks like
2:24:22something like my mom when I tell you
2:24:24hearing your story. I'm thinking about
2:24:28what 17 years of my life and witnessing
2:24:31my mother and father's marriage was
2:24:34>> and it's like dang, she
2:24:37is the person to talk to. she is the one
2:24:40that's seen it that that is going to be
2:24:44honest about
2:24:45>> I receive I received that and I felt
2:24:47like I felt like
2:24:50that it needed to be said and it needed
2:24:53to be put in print or whatever. I just I
2:24:58appreciate you for
2:25:00seeing the value in
2:25:04letting women, especially women who look
2:25:08like us,
2:25:10>> letting them know that
2:25:15it's the same on their side as the side
2:25:18that they're on. And we're all going
2:25:21through the same issues.
2:25:23>> Yeah.
2:25:24>> There's no hierarchy. There's no one
2:25:26story is
2:25:30better or more
2:25:32visible than the next. Like we're all
2:25:36going through these things.
2:25:38>> Mhm.
2:25:40So, I just want somebody to see it and
2:25:45really think twice about
2:25:49how they sort things out in their own
2:25:51relationship
2:25:54>> and then about themselves.
2:25:59Wait, [clears throat] we have to start.
2:26:00Mhm.
2:26:01>> If you could tell young Tony one thing,
2:26:06[laughter]
2:26:08>> what would it be? Child,
2:26:11>> I would tell her to trust herself more.
2:26:17>> Trust yourself more.
2:26:20Most of the time
2:26:25you have it right,
2:26:28but you second guess yourself because
2:26:31you feel like you don't you're not
2:26:34confident
2:26:35because you feel like what you already
2:26:37know is not enough.
2:26:41>> Trust yourself
2:26:43first because
2:26:47you already know what's right.
2:26:50You do know what you need to know.
2:26:52That's it.
2:26:54>> Yeah.
2:26:55>> Trust yourself. That's what I would have
2:26:57told her.
2:27:00>> Well, thank you so much for sharing such
2:27:05Yes, I receive it all. Queen,
2:27:07>> thank you so much for sharing everything
2:27:10that you share tonight. Um, and I told
2:27:14you this was going to be a safe space.
2:27:15No messaging here. [laughter] We going
2:27:18I'm I'm I'm surprised I didn't have a
2:27:20box of tissues on hand, but I'm I feel
2:27:22like, you know, this this was so healing
2:27:25and you not only just healed the
2:27:27mourning of D'Angelo, but I got to do
2:27:30some some some fixing up in in my own
2:27:33life, too. So, I appreciate everything
2:27:36that this conversation was.
2:27:38>> Absolutely. You tell me where you're
2:27:41going to post it so I can put a link
2:27:43somewhere.
2:27:44>> Yes. And um I would love to spread it
2:27:48around
2:27:50and touch whoever is meant for.
2:27:52>> Yes, ma'am.
2:27:53>> Yes, ma'am. Thank you again.
2:27:55>> Absolutely.
2:27:55>> I'm going to take care.
2:27:57>> You take care, darling. Yes, male.

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