What 60 Minutes Didn't Tell Viewers About Trump's Deportations — Transcript

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1. 0:0060 Minutes really nailed the Trump
2. 0:01administration on third country
3. 0:03deportations, or did it?
4. 0:05>> Deportations like these can be legal,
5. 0:08and past administrations have carried
6. 0:10them out, but not at this scale.
7. 0:13Our 5-month investigation uncovered
8. 0:15cases in which people ended up in places
9. 0:18where US immigration judges said they
10. 0:21would likely be persecuted or tortured.
11. 0:24>> I'm Rich Lowry of National Review, and
12. 0:25this was a 60 Minutes report that got a
13. 0:26lot of attention about so-called third
14. 0:28country deportations. That's when
15. 0:30there's a legal immigrant in the United
16. 0:31States can't be deported to his home
17. 0:33country because he supposedly faces a
18. 0:36threat of persecution there, and then
19. 0:37Trump administration then deports him to
20. 0:40a third country, and that country
21. 0:42deports him to the original home
22. 0:45country. So, this is particularly
23. 0:46notable because we have the entirety of
24. 0:49the interview with the Trump
25. 0:51administration immigration official on
26. 0:54this policy question, and we can see
27. 0:57what 60 Minutes decided to take and what
28. 1:00it decided to leave on the cutting room
29. 1:02floor. So, this is a great test case on
30. 1:05how 60 Minutes operates and how it
31. 1:07distorts its journalism. Also, a window
32. 1:11into the how the media operates in
33. 1:12general on the issue of immigration. So,
34. 1:15I want to go into detail what we saw in
35. 1:18the entirety of that interview, what we
36. 1:19saw in the 60 Minutes report itself, go
37. 1:22into a little bit of the policy and
38. 1:24legalities around these kind of
39. 1:26deportations, and then make the broader
40. 1:28point about how the media is biased on
41. 1:31this kind of policy question more from
42. 1:3360 Minutes.
43. 1:34>> On July 11th, Moussa Diowara, who's been
44. 1:37in the US for 25 years with no criminal
45. 1:40record, was wrapping up his night shift
46. 1:42as an Uber driver, heading to the home
47. 1:44in the Houston suburbs he owns with his
48. 1:46wife and children, who are US citizens.
49. 1:49But when he pulled up, US Immigration
50. 1:52and Customs Enforcement agents were
51. 1:54waiting for him.
52. 1:55>> So, we got a warrant for your arrest of
53. 1:57a for
54. 1:58outside of the US.
55. 1:59Okay?
56. 2:00>> After 3 weeks in ICE detention in Texas,
57. 2:03without being able to speak to his
58. 2:04lawyer or a judge, he was put on a plane
59. 2:07and deported to West Africa.
60. 2:11And that's where we met him, 2 months
61. 2:13after his arrest, thousands of miles
62. 2:15away from his Texas home.
63. 2:18>> For me, it was like a a nightmare.
64. 2:20It's like a Oh my god, what's going to
65. 2:22happen?
66. 2:22>> So, the basic situation here is this guy
67. 2:24comes to the US, overstays his visa,
68. 2:28gets an order of removal, but says like
69. 2:31you can't send me back to Mali because
70. 2:32I'll be persecuted there. Judge accepts
71. 2:34that, and he stays here for a long time.
72. 2:37Trump administration comes in and says,
73. 2:39"Okay, well, we can't send you to Mali.
74. 2:41We're going to send you to another
75. 2:43country. We're going to send you to
76. 2:44Ghana." So, they send him to Ghana, then
77. 2:45Ghana sends him to Mali, then he escapes
78. 2:48Mali into another undisclosed, in the 60
79. 2:51Minutes report, African country. Now,
80. 2:54the correspondent here interviews a guy,
81. 2:56a DHS lawyer named James Percival, and
82. 2:58as far as you can tell from the 60
83. 3:00Minutes segment itself, he's on his back
84. 3:03foot the whole time. He is on defense.
85. 3:06At one point, he tries to push back
86. 3:08really forcefully and say, "Look, we've
87. 3:10talked about it Ghana enough. Can't we
88. 3:11talk about something else?" And the
89. 3:13correspondent has a ready answer for
90. 3:15that.
91. 3:15>> Seems like you're very focused on Ghana.
92. 3:17Do you want to talk about any of the
93. 3:17other countries?
94. 3:18>> Sure. Sierra Leone, when folks arrive,
95. 3:20they receive a pamphlet. The pamphlet
96. 3:21says, "Sierra Leone is serving as a
97. 3:23temporary transit location while
98. 3:24arrangements are made to return you to
99. 3:26your country of origin."
100. 3:28>> Boom, that suggests she's got an answer
101. 3:30to whatever he says. But then, you look
102. 3:33at the entire interview. Percival
103. 3:35complained on X about the editing of
104. 3:37this. 60 Minutes agreed to release the
105. 3:39whole thing, and you look at the whole
106. 3:4145-minute interview, and you get an
107. 3:43entirely different impression. In fact,
108. 3:46what we just saw might be the only good
109. 3:49moment for the reporter in the entirety
110. 3:51of this interview, because as much as a
111. 3:53interview is kind of a confrontation, an
112. 3:55argument, a joust, and what you see, if
113. 3:58you look at the whole thing, is
114. 3:59repeatedly, she has to concede points to
115. 4:03Percival. He makes the point, "Look, a
116. 4:05lot of these people are violent
117. 4:07criminals and we have to find some way
118. 4:09to get them out of the country." Take a
119. 4:10look at this.
120. 4:11>> There have been some horrific cases. I
121. 4:13follow your Twitter. I follow what DHS
122. 4:15puts out of these specific profiles of
123. 4:16folks who are violent offenders who have
124. 4:19wreaked havoc in in American communities
125. 4:21and I totally hear you on that point and
126. 4:22I want to talk about that.
127. 4:23>> Here she is conceding again.
128. 4:25>> I cuz I I I really take your point about
129. 4:27these violent offenders. I do.
130. 4:28>> Then she says, "Hey, look, you're always
131. 4:29bringing up murderers and rapists, but
132. 4:32those are very small percentage of these
133. 4:35cases." She ends up conceding here as
134. 4:37well.
135. 4:38>> Based on this internal DHS document, in
136. 4:40Trump's first year, 0.5% of those
137. 4:42detained, 0.5% were accused or convicted
138. 4:45of homicide. 1.4% were accused or
139. 4:47convicted of sexual assault. I mean,
140. 4:49together that's that's 2%.
141. 4:51>> And isn't it wonderful that we're
142. 4:52getting those people out of the country?
143. 4:54>> 100%.
144. 4:54>> be the limit of who has to follow the
145. 4:57law? Just rapists and murderers have to
146. 4:58follow the law?
147. 4:59>> I I take that point.
148. 5:01>> our journey together through this
149. 5:02interview real quick, by the way, to
150. 5:04urge you subscribe to the National
151. 5:05Review channel if you like videos like
152. 5:07this. If you're not going to do it for
153. 5:07the substance, do it for my magnetic
154. 5:09personality or whatever the reason, we'd
155. 5:11really appreciate it if you hit
156. 5:13subscribe. Then you have these moments
157. 5:16in this interview where he rhetorically
158. 5:18just wipes her out. He just blasts her
159. 5:22out of the water. One moment here where
160. 5:25she seems to be suggesting, "You know
161. 5:27what? If illegal immigrants don't commit
162. 5:29murder or rape, they're basically
163. 5:32law-abiding." Look at this.
164. 5:34>> You know, cuz I hear a lot about the
165. 5:36violent offenders. Point taken. But what
166. 5:39I don't hear about is the law-abiding
167. 5:41folks who in our reporting is more than
168. 5:43half.
169. 5:43>> You're suggesting that people who are in
170. 5:45this country illegally are law-abiding?
171. 5:47>> Let's say don't have a criminal record
172. 5:48outside of an immigration offense. Maybe
173. 5:50overstaying a tourist visa.
174. 5:52>> So, if you are in this country
175. 5:53illegally, it is virtually impossible
176. 5:56for you to live in this country and not
177. 5:57commit additional legal violations
178. 5:59because
179. 6:00uh you know, working without
180. 6:01authorization, um identity theft,
181. 6:04there's a lot of illegality that goes on
182. 6:07when you are breaking the law. But I do
183. 6:09really uh reject your characterization
184. 6:12of someone who is in this country
185. 6:13illegally and breaking our laws as
186. 6:15{quote} law-abiding. I think that's
187. 6:16fundamentally inaccurate and unfair.
188. 6:18>> Okay, fair enough.
189. 6:19>> Then they start arguing about the matter
190. 6:21of persecution or torture cuz he makes
191. 6:24the case, "Hey, look, if we're sending
192. 6:27these illegal immigrants to third
193. 6:29countries and then they send them on to
194. 6:31their home country and they do indeed
195. 6:34have a totally legitimate fear of
196. 6:36torture and persecution there, you
197. 6:38should be able to tell me about some
198. 6:40cases where they've actually been
199. 6:41tortured or persecuted, God forbid."
200. 6:44Here's that exchange.
201. 6:45>> I guess one one thing I would point out,
202. 6:47I mean
203. 6:48are you suggesting that when these
204. 6:49people went to their home countries that
205. 6:50they were persecuted or tortured? I
206. 6:52mean, are you suggesting that
207. 6:53>> suggesting that a US a US judge said
208. 6:55that, a federal judge said that.
209. 6:56>> they were persecuted or tortured when
210. 6:57they they went to their home country?
211. 6:59>> they were more than likely to be
212. 7:00tortured or persecuted if they were
213. 7:02returned to their home country.
214. 7:04And then they were sent to Ghana and
215. 7:05returned to their home country
216. 7:06regardless of that
217. 7:07>> they got to their home country, are you
218. 7:08suggesting that they were persecuted or
219. 7:09tortured?
220. 7:10>> Some have faced violence.
221. 7:12But that's not what I'm alleging, no.
222. 7:13>> Well, but again, so you're suggesting
223. 7:15that Ghana is not accurately
224. 7:17adjudicating whether they fear
225. 7:19persecution or torture in their home
226. 7:21country. If that were true, you would
227. 7:22expect those people to return to their
228. 7:24home country and then face persecution
229. 7:26or torture because Ghana would be
230. 7:27getting it wrong. And if they're going
231. 7:29to their home country and you're not
232. 7:30hearing claims that they're being
233. 7:31persecuted or tortured, then that
234. 7:32suggests that Ghana's procedures are
235. 7:34adequate. Now again, I work for the US
236. 7:36government. Ghana's got its own
237. 7:37procedures. But to me, the ultimate
238. 7:39question is are they actually sending
239. 7:42someone somewhere where they're going to
240. 7:43be persecuted or tortured? And it
241. 7:45doesn't sound like you're making that
242. 7:46claim.
243. 7:47>> I I'm not saying that I have cases that
244. 7:49I'm going to show you where this is
245. 7:50happening mostly because, you know, this
246. 7:52is all very recent.
247. 7:53>> includes none of those clips. Why? Cuz
248. 7:56it'd make Percival look too good. It
249. 7:58would show that his case at least has
250. 8:01some persuasive power and also
251. 8:03demonstrate, by the way, at least
252. 8:04implicitly that she has a bias. So why
253. 8:06would she include any of that? You know,
254. 8:08a correspondent's not going to do a long
255. 8:10confrontational interview and then to
256. 8:12select the bits that make her look bad.
257. 8:15And this has been a problem with 60
258. 8:16Minutes journalism since the beginning.
259. 8:18They do these long interviews, they
260. 8:20don't play them in their entirety, and
261. 8:22they cut and paste the bits that make
262. 8:24their case for them or make their
263. 8:26correspondent look good. And that's just
264. 8:28an inherent bias to how they operate.
265. 8:31Now, I'm very glad that Bari Weiss is at
266. 8:32CBS. I think she's doing a great job,
267. 8:34but she obviously hasn't taken care of
268. 8:37this problem, if it can be dealt with at
269. 8:40all. Now, when we get to the policy
270. 8:42question here, Percival repeatedly makes
271. 8:45the case cuz he has to repeat everything
272. 8:47over and over to her again that these
273. 8:50third-party deportations are legal. He's
274. 8:53absolutely right about this. This is a
275. 8:55Congressional Research Service report.
276. 8:57The Immigration and Nationality Act says
277. 8:59forth rules governing the selection of
278. 9:01the country to which an alien ordered
279. 9:02removed may be transferred. Aliens found
280. 9:04in the interior of the United States
281. 9:06who've been ordered removed generally
282. 9:07must be removed to the countries they
283. 9:09designate, typically their home
284. 9:11countries, or if that's not possible,
285. 9:12other countries to which they have
286. 9:13connections. The INA also provides that
287. 9:16the Secretary of the Department of
288. 9:17Homeland Security may potentially remove
289. 9:19aliens to other countries willing to
290. 9:21accept them, referred to as third
291. 9:22countries, when removal to the
292. 9:24designated country or a country to which
293. 9:26the alien has a connection would be
294. 9:27impractical, inadvisable, or impossible.
295. 9:30Now, just because something is legal
296. 9:32doesn't mean it's necessarily good or
297. 9:34advisable policy. You watch the 60
298. 9:36Minutes report, and you naturally have
299. 9:38compassion for this guy. But what
300. 9:40happened in prior administrations? They
301. 9:42had much too lax an approach to
302. 9:44immigration enforcement. They said,
303. 9:46"Okay, we can't send you back to your
304. 9:47home country. You can just stay in the
305. 9:48United States." Sometimes this did
306. 9:51involve violent criminals staying here.
307. 9:54Regardless, it wasn't a great
308. 9:56arrangement. Now, the Trump
309. 9:56administration has now pushed the
310. 9:58pendulum way over in the other direction
311. 10:01to make up for all this lax enforcement
312. 10:03and to enforce the laws more to a T, and
313. 10:07this can also lead to some unwelcome
314. 10:09outcomes and maybe callous outcomes.
315. 10:12Now, Percival is correct in points he
316. 10:14made during the course of this interview
317. 10:16that sometimes you send these immigrants
318. 10:18to the third country and they're like,
319. 10:20"You know what? I don't want to be in
320. 10:22this third country. Forget about it.
321. 10:24Just send me home." But, it also may be
322. 10:26that a country like Ghana just has a nod
323. 10:28and wink arrangement with us where we
324. 10:30send them to Ghana and they immediately
325. 10:31go to their home country, no questions
326. 10:33asked. That shouldn't happen. But, let's
327. 10:35focus on this guy some more and the key
328. 10:38question of why he said he feared
329. 10:41persecution in Mali because that gets to
330. 10:44a key element of the decision-making
331. 10:47about his case, about this policy
332. 10:50generally, and also goes to the honesty
333. 10:53and fairness of the 60 Minutes report.
334. 10:56Now, another point that Percival made
335. 10:57repeatedly in that interview is this
336. 11:00one.
337. 11:00>> They're not always telling the truth. We
338. 11:01know the illegal alien population lies a
339. 11:03lot.
340. 11:03>> Now, that seems an unassailably correct
341. 11:06point and a really important one, right?
342. 11:08You can't take at face value what a lot
343. 11:11of these illegal immigrants say because
344. 11:13they have an incentive to lie, right? If
345. 11:16they get away with a lie, they get to
346. 11:17stay in the United States, which is a
347. 11:19jackpot for them. So, what about this
348. 11:22guy? What What 60 Minutes would lead you
349. 11:25to believe from their report is that he
350. 11:28converted to Christianity and that's the
351. 11:30reason why he didn't want to go back to
352. 11:31Mali, a majority Muslim country that
353. 11:35doesn't like Christians very much.
354. 11:36>> Part of the reason he didn't feel safe,
355. 11:38he told us, is that he'd converted to
356. 11:40Christianity.
357. 11:44Mali's a Muslim majority nation with an
358. 11:46Islamist insurgency.
359. 11:48>> Okay, but then there's also this cryptic
360. 11:50reference in the 60 Minutes report.
361. 11:52>> DHS also questioned the credibility of
362. 11:54Diawara's arguments for fearing
363. 11:56persecution in Mali.
364. 11:58>> So, that's kind of curious. Why did DHS
365. 12:00question the credibility of his claim?
366. 12:03Well, 60 Minutes didn't include this,
367. 12:05but it's emerged since that a key part
368. 12:07of his claim for why he didn't want to
369. 12:08go back to Mali is because he's gay. Fox
370. 12:12News got his asylum application. Here's
371. 12:14some key passages. He says he can't go
372. 12:16back to Mali because he had experienced
373. 12:18extreme punishment and persecution based
374. 12:20on the ground of my sexual orientation.
375. 12:22As I can recall, I felt very differently
376. 12:24from the children of my age around my
377. 12:25home and neighborhood. Although I was
378. 12:27born as a boy, things appeared
379. 12:28differently for me as I was already
380. 12:30having female behaviors and feelings. As
381. 12:32he grew older, he was feeling uneasy,
382. 12:34fearful that his hidden secret would be
383. 12:35discovered. The untenable situation I
384. 12:37found myself in my country brought me
385. 12:39misery and anger. Since I came to the
386. 12:41USA, I had the possibility to express my
387. 12:43feelings to men without any
388. 12:44embarrassment, no reserve. Indeed, my
389. 12:46tribal group and community as a whole
390. 12:48had reported my sexual orientation to my
391. 12:50family back home because such behavior
392. 12:51is unwelcome in my society. My life is
393. 12:54henceforth threatened if I have to go
394. 12:55back to my country because I could be
395. 12:57executed either by the Islamic group or
396. 12:59the community. Then he mentions
397. 13:01Christianity. Additionally, my situation
398. 13:02worsened when I changed my religion to
399. 13:04become Christian. So, what's wrong with
400. 13:05that? It's certainly plausible that if
401. 13:07you're a gay person, you might fear
402. 13:09persecution in Mali. Well, the problem
403. 13:11is he has a family in the United States.
404. 13:14In fact, the entire ending of the 60
405. 13:16Minutes report is about how
406. 13:18heart-rending it is that he's been
407. 13:19separated from his wife and kids. So,
408. 13:23how's it possible that CBS investigated
409. 13:25this, as I said at the top, for 5
410. 13:28months? They went to Africa, spent time
411. 13:30with this guy, they spent time with his
412. 13:31family, they did a long interview with
413. 13:32the DHS official, they went back and
414. 13:34forth with DHS, and they didn't know
415. 13:38that a key part of his asylum
416. 13:39application was that he was gay? I find
417. 13:42that very hard to believe. Didn't they
418. 13:44ask when DHS said, "Well, we have reason
419. 13:46to question the credibility of his
420. 13:47claim." Didn't they ask, "Why?" But even
421. 13:50if they knew this, it would have been
422. 13:51impossible for them to include in this
423. 13:54report, right? Cuz it would have blown
424. 13:56the whole thing out of the water. It
425. 13:57would have seemed completely ridiculous
426. 13:59to say, "Well, he can't go back to Mali
427. 14:01because he's gay, but here's his family
428. 14:03that's distraught because he's been sent
429. 14:05back to Africa." So, this just goes to
430. 14:09how 60 Minutes hid the ball in two key
431. 14:13ways on this report that would have made
432. 14:16the whole thing feel differently or
433. 14:18would actually have convinced them not
434. 14:20to air it at all. One, they made
435. 14:23Percival sound much worse in the
436. 14:25interview than he actually did. And two,
437. 14:28they kept from the viewers the reason
438. 14:32why he said he couldn't go back to Mali.
439. 14:35And this just goes to how you can't
440. 14:37trust the media on almost anything
441. 14:39having to do with the Trump
442. 14:39administration, but especially anything
443. 14:41having to do with immigration policy so
444. 14:44much of the media has such a big
445. 14:45ideological axe to grind on this issue.
446. 14:49As they say on X, you can't hate the
447. 14:52media enough. Hey, by the way, I have a
448. 14:54couple other videos for you. Did one the
449. 14:55other day on what Ilhan Omar's real name
450. 14:58is. Also did one on this annoying
451. 15:00activist in France who's been justifying
452. 15:02the so-called mostly peaceful
453. 15:04demonstrations. Curious what you make of
454. 15:06this one, please leave a comment. If you
455. 15:08like this video, hey, you've gotten this
456. 15:09far, just click the like button. And
457. 15:10once more, I humbly beseech you to
458. 15:13subscribe to the National View channel.
459. 15:15I'm Chris Larson, over and out.