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We May Have Misunderstood What Joseph Smith Really Found | Don Bradley E0061 — Transcript

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0:00Wait a second. Joseph Smith found
0:01something in Kamura. What do most people
0:02think that it is?
0:03>> What we really focus on most, of course,
0:05is the golden plates. There's larger
0:07significance. You've got a stone box
0:10with gold tablets that Joseph Smith
0:12finds [music] in Kamura. You've got a
0:13gold box with stone tablets in the
0:16biblical temple. [music] It's an exact
0:18inversion. Ah, it's not coincidence. So,
0:20if they were one parallel, that would be
0:22one thing. But when we have a whole set
0:24of interlocking parallels,
0:26>> this is the most mind-blowing thing
0:27you've told me so far.
0:28>> It's going to it's going to get better.
0:29Keep going.
0:30>> The high priest yurman thumb on the
0:32breastplate. The sword of lean. Do you
0:34remember how Lehi gets the Leah?
0:36>> Stop it, man. Oh my gosh, man. Are you
0:39kidding me?
0:41>> So, so, so think of this. Okay.
0:45A young man finds a lost book of
0:47scripture and uses it to restore God's
0:50covenant with Israel. Who is this?
0:55If you said King Josiah, you're right.
0:58If you said Joseph Smith, you're also
1:00right. Wait, you're both right.
1:02>> They're both right. People don't even
1:03make that connection.
1:04>> Yeah.
1:05>> So, this this isn't new. What Joseph
1:07Smith did, in some ways, it isn't new.
1:10It's a larger scriptural pattern. It's a
1:13pattern of restoration. Joseph Smith is
1:17not the first person to find a lost book
1:20of scripture and use it to restore God's
1:24covenant with Israel. Jo King Josiah did
1:28that first and then Joseph Smith did it.
1:31And so Joseph, what happens in the
1:34restoration, what happens in Joseph
1:35Smith's life follows patterns. So for
1:38Joseph Smith, the Bible isn't just a
1:41story about the past. It's the world
1:45that we're living in. So you can
1:47understand the restoration that in the
1:49restoration, the world of the Bible kind
1:51of invades our modern world. It like
1:54breaks in. it breaks through and we see
1:57that there's actually continuity. So one
1:59way that Latterday Saints tend to be
2:01different from traditional creed
2:04Christians is that there's less
2:07continuity for them between the world of
2:10the Bible and our world. Well, God used
2:11to speak and give have prophets and
2:15apostles and give scripture and do
2:18miracles, you know, through these
2:20prophets back in the olden times.
2:25sacred history. But God doesn't do that
2:27anymore. Now we just read about how God
2:29did it for other people. And so there
2:31was Latter Day Saint scholar Joseph
2:32Fielding Makoni, son of Bruce Archoni,
2:35who said that's like, you know, there's
2:38a rich being told there's a rich
2:39spiritual banquet going on and you get
2:42to watch everybody eat, right? Like you
2:44don't get to participate, you get to
2:46watch, right? So the restoration, Joseph
2:49Smith, no, you don't just watch, you get
2:52to eat, you get to participate.
2:54So the world of the Bible for us isn't
2:58just distant history. It's an ongoing
3:00divine story. And we are living in that
3:03story today. That's what that's part of
3:08what the restoration means. And so we
3:10talk about the restoration, but
3:13sometimes we don't think, holy, what's
3:15being restored? What does that mean?
3:17Right? You know, it's there's a
3:19restoration. Restore what? And what
3:22we're going to talk about today when we
3:25talk about Josiah, when we talk about
3:28ancient Israel and patterns of
3:30restoration there, we talk about the ark
3:32of the covenant, we talk about the
3:35Exodus and Jewish festivals. We're going
3:37to be talking about some of the things
3:39that were restored in the restoration
3:42with the coming forth of the Book of
3:44Mormon, how they were restored.
3:46>> So, there's there's things that we need
3:48to understand before we can go deeper.
3:49But, I just think that idea of Joseph
3:51Smith in conjunction with the Ark of the
3:53Covenant to me is just like, wait, wait.
3:55Those those two things don't usually go
3:56together. You know what I mean? They
3:59usually don't go together, right?
4:00>> But there's some things that we need to
4:02better understand in order to even
4:03consider that they could go together.
4:05>> Yeah. So, so I'm going to argue that
4:08Joseph Smith finds
4:10a new arc of the covenant. That Joseph
4:12Smith finds the Nephite arc of the
4:15covenant. And that we've got plenty of
4:18historical information, scriptural
4:20information to show that. And you're
4:22right, two things, two things that don't
4:24usually go together in our minds.
4:26They're both part of a larger sacred
4:27history. But we think Ark of the
4:28Covenant, well, that was way back, you
4:31know, in the time of Moses and the in
4:33ancient Israel. Joseph Smith, he's more
4:36in our time. He's in the 1800s in the
4:39US. What What do those have to do with
4:42one another? We're going to find out.
4:44>> So, there is a connection. And I think
4:47that what I think I appreciate about you
4:49the most is this idea to be able to find
4:51patterns and and things like that. What
4:53is it that you would say about the story
4:57that many people have heard many times
4:59about how Joseph Smith found the golden
5:01plates, right, as he discovered them?
5:05It's almost as though there there has to
5:06be some pieces that we don't understand
5:08or maybe we've been looking at it in a
5:09way that would cause us to not even see
5:11this connection.
5:12>> Yeah.
5:13>> What are some of those misunderstandings
5:14that people have?
5:15>> So, so there there are all kinds of
5:17pieces and what we have to do some of
5:19them are familiar pieces, right? Some of
5:21the things we're going to look at are
5:22very familiar. They're they're in the
5:23Doctrine and Covenants. They're well
5:25known from the history of the church or
5:27in the Book of Mormon. And sometimes we
5:29don't see the significance of things
5:31until we see the larger connections.
5:33Kind of like if you've got a few
5:35isolated pieces from a picture puzzle,
5:39you don't see the picture. But when you
5:41put them together with the surrounding
5:43pieces, ah the you start to see the
5:46picture. So, we've got the biblical
5:50story of King Josiah and his
5:52reformation. We're going to talk a
5:53little about that because that's a
5:54background.
5:55>> Yeah.
5:55>> Right. We're going to talk about the
5:58what what do the Nephites do? What do
6:00Lehi and his family do when they lose
6:02everything in Jerusalem? They lose the
6:05promised land. They lose Jerusalem. They
6:07lose Solomon's temple. They lose the ark
6:09of the covenant. What do they what do
6:11they do with having lost that? We're
6:13going to talk about their ark of the
6:16covenant.
6:17And we're going to talk about Joseph
6:20Smith and Joseph Smith finding the Ark
6:23of the Covenant. And how does he find
6:25it? When does he find it? What's the
6:26significance of what he finds? When he
6:29finds it, there's a sacred timetable
6:31that brings that story of ancient Israel
6:34into today and shows that Joseph Smith
6:37was living in that story. The Latter-day
6:39Saints, we are living in the story of
6:43ancient Israel still. The story of
6:45ancient story of Israel isn't just
6:47ancient. It's modern, too. It extends
6:50this covenant story all the way from,
6:53you know, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to,
6:56you know, Dan H. Oaks to, you know, you
6:59and me to to everybody watching is is
7:03part of that story.
7:04>> It's not this thing way back there.
7:05We're a part of it. Joseph Smith found
7:07something in Kamura. What do most people
7:09think that it is going along with what
7:11you're saying right now?
7:12Just I mean what we really focus on most
7:15of course is the golden plates. So we
7:18just we largely focus on the golden
7:19plates and the significance for usually
7:22are the golden plates is two things.
7:23Well they had the words of the Book of
7:25Mormon. So that's great. So we got the
7:27Book of Mormon
7:28>> and then they had they they were seen by
7:32witnesses. So we have the testimonies of
7:33the witnesses. So that testifies of the
7:36content of the Book of Mormon. That's
7:38all true. But then there's yeah there's
7:41a larger importance to Joseph Smith
7:45having the golden plates than just oh
7:47Joseph Smith had golden plates. There's
7:50a larger significance. There are
7:52symbolic significances. There are ways
7:54that that connects with the ancient
7:57temple and helps us to understand the
7:59modern temple.
8:00>> And so a good entry point to that that
8:03is talking about King Josiah because
8:06there there are these patterns.
8:08>> Okay. Right. God works through patterns
8:10patterns of restoration that keep going
8:14over and over. So So what was the story
8:17of King Josiah?
8:18>> Yeah.
8:19>> What what was it?
8:21>> So uh King Josiah, he's he's actually in
8:25the time of Lehi,
8:27>> right? So when Lehi was like a young
8:29man,
8:30>> King Josiah would have been the king.
8:32>> And
8:33>> during the same time as Lehi.
8:34>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
8:36>> Literally the same time.
8:37>> Yeah. Lehi. absolutely would have been
8:38alive during the reign of King Josiah.
8:40He died uh within 20 years be about 20
8:44years I think before Lehi's exodus from
8:47Jerusalem. We're talking about the same
8:49basic time period just little bit
8:51earlier. He's like the Josiah is like
8:53the grandfather or something of King
8:55Zedekiah
8:56>> who is the king when the Book of Mormon
8:57starts.
8:58>> Yeah. So, so think that time period.
9:00You're in the right time period, right?
9:02M
9:03>> so Josiah when he is a young man there's
9:06a book that's a lost book of scripture
9:09that's found and it's found in the
9:12temple and they call it the book of the
9:15law of the Lord. So it had been hidden.
9:18So Deuteronomy 31:26
9:22says take this book of the law and put
9:25it in the side of the ark of the
9:27covenant of the Lord your God. And so
9:30they they basically like hid this book,
9:34this covenant book given to Moses by
9:38God. They hid it inside or with the Ark
9:42of the Covenant. People don't know it's
9:44there apparently for centuries.
9:47>> Then Josiah, when it's found, he uses it
9:51to reform Israel's religion. They've
9:53been worshiping idols and things like
9:55this. He's like, "We got to, the book's
9:57telling us we got to get rid of all
9:58this. We [clears throat] got to return
10:00to this truer, pure form of worship."
10:03And he he does a sort of reformation or
10:07restoration of Israelite worship. Um,
10:13so
10:14>> he wakes up.
10:15>> He he like Yeah, he he like wakes up.
10:17He's scared actually when he reads this
10:19book. He's scared. He's like, "This is
10:21not what we've been living." And this
10:23says if this book says if you do these
10:25things you get these blessings and if
10:27you don't do these things you're in
10:29trouble in these ways and so we're in
10:31trouble. So he leads a just like a
10:33sudden national repentance. Right? So
10:37the book is actually a covenant that the
10:40Israelites were supposed to keep. So it
10:42talks about this book in a lot in
10:44Deuteronomy. So in in Deuteronomy 29:9,
10:48uh, Moses tells the people, he's talking
10:49about this book before it's hidden,
10:51right, with the ark of the covenant,
10:54keep therefore the words of this
10:55covenant and do them. Keep them and do
10:58them that you may prosper in the land in
11:00all you do. Joshua talks about the same
11:03book. Moses's successor Joshua, the book
11:06of the law shall not depart out of thy
11:08mouth, but thou shalt meditate therein
11:12day and night that thou mayest observe
11:16to do according to all that is written.
11:20Okay. So, so, so you've got the words,
11:23they can like say the words, but they're
11:24also explicitly told to do according to
11:27that which written is written. And so
11:30Josiah does this. He takes, it actually
11:33calls this the book of the covenant,
11:34which is really interesting, right?
11:36Because as Latter Day Saints, we
11:37emphasize so much the covenant. So in 2
11:40Kings 23:2, it's called the book of the
11:42covenant. And Josiah goes into the
11:45temple. He stands by a pillar of the
11:46temple and he swears a covenant on
11:50behalf of the people. He leads his
11:53people in making this covenant. So
11:55they're all under covenant to do this.
11:57And it says, "And the king stood by a
11:59pillar and made a covenant before the
12:01Lord to walk after the Lord and to keep
12:04his commandments to perform the words of
12:07this covenant that were written in the
12:11book." And all the people stood to the
12:13covenant. So all the whole people,
12:16they're put under covenant to keep the
12:20words of this book of the covenant as as
12:23Joshua said, not only to like say what's
12:26in it, but also to do according to that
12:30which is written. So the I think you've
12:33heard those words.
12:34>> I've heard those words.
12:37>> Am I crazy to be I don't want to jump
12:39ahead, but
12:40>> So where have you heard those words?
12:41>> Section 84. Section 84 of the Doctrine
12:43in Covenants.
12:44>> Yes. Very very almost exact
12:47>> almost exact words, right? Yeah. So
12:50section 84 in verse 57. And these are
12:54these are familiar because we'll talk
12:56maybe
12:57>> later. We've had a modern day prophet
12:59quote these words to us,
13:01>> right?
13:03>> Tell tell us they apply to us. No,
13:06>> we talked about this a little bit
13:07beforehand and my and I'm already like,
13:11wait a second. It's right here. It's
13:13right here this whole time. Like I've
13:15I've studied both but never close enough
13:18to just notice that
13:20>> it connect them. Yeah.
13:21>> That's like word for word what he says
13:23in section 84.
13:25>> So yeah. So
13:26>> and do you want to talk about it later
13:27or you want to talk about now?
13:28>> I'm going to bring it up now and we
13:30maybe will talk about it more at the
13:31end. Right. How it applies to us. Well,
13:33you mentioned the prophet who says it.
13:35>> You want to talk about that later?
13:36>> Let's talk about that later, but yeah,
13:37I'll quote it now. So, so it's
13:39interesting. When was this section
13:40given? Section 84, the Doctrine of
13:42Covenants. You you at it?
13:45>> Yeah. Right here.
13:46>> You want to see what's the date at the
13:47beginning? When's it given?
13:51>> Section 84 is September. Stop it, man.
13:53[laughter]
13:54Stop it, man. Oh my gosh, man. Are you
13:57kidding me? [laughter]
14:00>> No. Go ahead.
14:01Wait a second, man. Dad, listen.
14:06September [snorts]
14:0722nd and 23rd, 1832.
14:10>> Yeah. So, this is so so September 22nd.
14:14This is this was given over two days,
14:15but it starts is big revelation, so it
14:18had to be given over a couple days, but
14:19it starts on September 22nd, 1832.
14:24So, exactly 5 years before that.
14:27>> Stop this right now. This is this
14:29Listen, man. People
14:32got to understand. We talk about things
14:33beforehand just to kind of understand
14:35like what are we gonna like what is it?
14:36I just need to have an understand so I
14:38can know what to ask you.
14:39>> But you never
14:41>> but I didn't tell you this. This is
14:43>> I want I want to leave some I've read
14:45section 84 so many times
14:48>> and the significance of obviously when
14:50Joseph Smith goes to the hill to get the
14:52plates
14:53>> and that date se September 22nd.
14:56>> September 22nd. What year does he get
14:58the plates?
14:59>> 1832. No, no, no.
15:00>> And when he gets the plates, is it when
15:02is it
15:02>> 27?
15:03>> Wow.
15:04>> So, this is exactly five years to the
15:07day from when Joseph gets the plates of
15:11the Book of Mormon, he has this
15:13revelation that talks about the Book of
15:15Mormon.
15:17And it says in verse So, so maybe read
15:21from 54 to 57.
15:24>> Okay. And your minds in times past have
15:26been darkened because of unbelief, and
15:28because you have you have uh you have
15:31treated lightly the things you have
15:33received,
15:34>> which vanity and unbelief have brought
15:36the whole church under condemnation. And
15:38this condemnation resteth upon the
15:40children of Zion, even all that they
15:42shall remain under the this condemnation
15:44until they repent and remember the new
15:46covenant, even the Book of Mormon, and
15:48the former commandments which I have
15:50given them. Not only to say, but to do
15:53according to that which I have written,
15:55>> right? So, not only to say, but also to
15:58do. So, this is like what Joshua was
16:00saying about what you got to do with the
16:02book of the law, the book of the
16:03covenant, right? that that Moses has
16:06hidden with the ark of the covenant and
16:08then Josiah finds and uses to work a
16:11kind of reformation or restoration in
16:14his time.
16:15So that's that's got connections
16:19right with what Joseph Smith is doing.
16:22And this is drawing the connections.
16:24It's the section 84 given exactly 5
16:28years after Joseph fits the plates is
16:30saying you're under condemnation because
16:32you haven't taken seriously enough the
16:35things you've been given. What things?
16:36The Book of Mormon chiefly the Book of
16:39Mormon and because of that you're under
16:41condemnation and you got to remember
16:44this new covenant it's calling it. So
16:46the Book of Mormon is also a Book of the
16:47Covenant, right? a new book of the
16:49covenant and you've got to remember it
16:53not only to say but also to do according
16:55to that which is written like Moses,
16:57Joshua and Joshua said you had to do
17:00with the book of the covenant found back
17:02in Josiah's time and then they were put
17:04under a covenant to do that that they
17:07were going to like speak the words of
17:09the book listen to the words of the book
17:11but also do according to the words of
17:14that book that's what we got to do with
17:16the book of Mormon so there there are
17:17patterns
17:19of restoration that recur. It's not like
17:22the restoration. It's not like
17:24restoration is a one-time thing, one
17:27time gig or whatever, right? It happens
17:29again and again across the history of
17:31Israel.
17:32>> Wow. I don't even know what to say. I
17:34have no idea what to say. I don't even
17:36know what to ask you right at this
17:37[laughter] point because I'm thinking
17:38through how if that's the one pattern,
17:41then what else is there? And what is the
17:42connection of this of this restoration?
17:45back to your point of the things that it
17:48seems so far away, but we're actually a
17:50part of it now.
17:51>> Yeah, we're part of it now.
17:53>> I'm just ask I'm just thinking like
17:54where where else do you see the same
17:55pattern?
17:56>> Yeah, it's a great question. So,
17:58obviously we're seeing it today, but we
18:01see it again before today. We see it
18:03multiple times in ancient Israel. We see
18:06it not only with Josiah, but we actually
18:08see it soon afterward with Lehi and
18:12Nephi and the Nephites. really
18:14>> see the pattern there. Yeah, we see a
18:16loss
18:17>> and then we see a restoration, right?
18:20So, if you think about
18:22Josiah's like I think it's his grandson,
18:24it might be his great-grandson um
18:26Zedekiah. So, the Book of Mormon tells
18:29us, we've talked about before, right,
18:32that Lehi's story starts in the
18:34commencement of the reign of Zedekiah,
18:36king of Judah. And we've talked about
18:38what does that mean? And the thing is,
18:41we usually overlook it because we don't
18:42understand. We don't know our Bible well
18:45enough to know how did Zedekiah get on
18:47the throne? How did his reign commence?
18:48Well, it's because King Nebuchadnezzar
18:52II, emperor of Babylon, came in and like
18:55kicked Israelite butt unfortunately,
18:58right? Like laid siege to Jerusalem.
19:01And the people in Jerusalem are like,
19:04"Sure, like we don't want you to ransack
19:06our city and destroy us, so we'll give
19:08you our king." And he's like, "Uh, yeah,
19:10give me your king. Give me your nobles."
19:12And he hauls them off to Babylon. This
19:14is the beginning of the Babylonian
19:15exile. So then Lehi and other prophets,
19:18Jeremiah and others, many prophets, come
19:22to Jerusalem and they prophesy. Now,
19:24you're still going to be destroyed
19:26because sure, you've kind of made a deal
19:28with the emperor of Babylon, but that's
19:30not good enough. You haven't repented.
19:33You need to fully repent or Jerusalem
19:36will be destroyed. and they don't
19:38repent. And this is why Lehi, they're
19:40going to be led off into exile. And so
19:42God warns Lehi because of his faith and
19:45his righteousness because Lehi is
19:47listening to the Lord. He is listening
19:50to the warnings that the Lord is giving.
19:52And so the Israelites are going to lose
19:55everything. They're going to lose their
19:57promised land. They're going to be
19:58hauled off to Babylon. They're going to
20:00lose their sacred city, Jerusalem. It's
20:02about to be destroyed. They're going to
20:04lose Solomon's temple. It gets
20:06destroyed. They're going to lose the ark
20:08of the covenant which is in the temple.
20:10Nebuch may have already lost it when
20:14Nebuchadnezzar comes and takes off the
20:17the king, right, in Lehi's time because
20:20it says in the Bible that he comes and
20:23he ransacks Jerusalem in the temple and
20:25takes all the vessels made of gold.
20:27Well, the ark is made of gold. The ark
20:29of the covenant is made of gold. So it
20:30might have disappeared then,
20:32>> but and we'll come back to like what
20:35happens to the ark, right? But like
20:37because but the Bible doesn't clearly
20:39say. So in any case, at some point there
20:42they lose their ark. They lose their
20:44temple relics. They lose their ability
20:46temporarily to live the law of Moses to
20:49to live God's law. Well, the Nephites,
20:52Lehi's family, they actually lose the
20:55same things, right? We're told, the
20:57Nephites tell us, Nephite prophets tell
20:59us, we live the law of Moses. But how do
21:01you live the law of Moses without
21:05the promised land, the sacred city, the
21:09temple? You have to do temple sacrifices
21:12to live the law of Moses. You have to
21:14have a holy of holies. The ark of the
21:16covenant is an important part actually
21:18of living the law of Moses, but it gets
21:21it disappears. It's gone. And so,
21:26H how do how do the
21:30Jews later live the law of Moses? But
21:32how do ne how are Nephi and his people
21:34supposed to live it when they're going
21:35off away from the biblical promised
21:37land, away from Solomon's temple?
21:39They're losing all the same things that
21:41the Jews at Jerusalem are losing except
21:43their freedom,
21:44>> right? They don't they don't go through
21:46an exile. They go through a new exodus.
21:48So God leads them to a new promised
21:51land. And one of the things I'm going to
21:53argue, kind of like one of the points,
21:55like a thesis of this video, is that the
22:00Nephites had their own arc of the
22:02covenant. That they make their own arc
22:03of the covenant. They have their own
22:05sacred relics. And that they had to they
22:08had to in order to live the law of
22:10Moses. And to see that, we got to
22:13understand what was the ark of the
22:14covenant in the Bible. What was it? And
22:18what what was it for? What did it where
22:20did it come from? What was it for? Zena,
22:22what did it do?
22:26>> There's a lot to unpack. This is stuff
22:28I've never even considered in my life.
22:30Right.
22:30>> So, the Nephites, they have to use
22:33they're they're following that pattern.
22:34They must have followed that pattern.
22:35So, what can we understand if they are
22:37if they are of Jewish tradition and of
22:40of their faith, their heritage, their
22:42blood, what are some of those what are
22:44some of those um patterns that they must
22:45have lived back then? Should we talk
22:47about that?
22:48>> Sure. So yeah, I think
22:51>> because that's what you're saying.
22:52You're saying that they're they're
22:53similar and they had to have continued
22:55those same uh traditions or they would
22:58have had their own, you know, arc of the
23:00covenant, all of those things that are
23:01similar. What is that history? What is
23:03that context of uh of those different
23:05traditions basically?
23:07>> So, so basically
23:10the Israelites
23:13built their temple around the ark of the
23:15covenant. The temple was kind of like a
23:17house for the ark of the covenant. If
23:19you don't have an ark of the covenant,
23:20why would you have a temple, right? It's
23:22it's basically built to house the ark of
23:25the covenant for very important reasons.
23:28And the ark of the covenant serves as an
23:31altar for the most important sacrifice
23:34of the law of Moses of all, the most
23:38important one that represents the
23:39atonement most of all. And so they need
23:43an arc of the covenant. So like why what
23:47what is the ark of the covenant? Like
23:48where does it come from?
23:50>> So the ark of the covenant of course
23:52when when Moses leads God's people, he
23:56leads them on this Exodus as everybody
23:58knows right from Egypt to the this new
24:01promised land. And of course Moses is
24:05given a law. He goes up on Mount Si.
24:08He's on top of the mountain for 40
24:10sacred mountain top high place for 40
24:12days getting the law of Moses.
24:16God gives him stone tablets, right? The
24:19Lord engraves
24:21the commandments, engraves the law, the
24:23covenant with his own finger
24:26and he engraves two sets of tablets.
24:29We're told like like each set of tablets
24:31seems to be two stones, right? And
24:35there's a first set of tablets that
24:36Moses gets angry and he breaks because
24:38the children of Israel are he comes down
24:40after 40 days children of Israel
24:41worshiping a golden calf. He's like like
24:43you're not worthy of this. So he breaks
24:45it. Then he goes up he gets another set
24:49of tablets and the GST talks about the
24:53first set of tablets was the higher law
24:55that they rejected through their
24:56wickedness and idolatry. So they don't
24:58get that one back. The second set of
25:00tablets is the lesser law. It's got
25:03commandments like the ten commandments,
25:05but it doesn't have the higher law. So
25:08Moses actually, we're told in the Bible,
25:10he takes both sets of tablets and the
25:12Lord commands him to have an ark made.
25:16So arc, we don't really use it. We only
25:18use this word when we're talking about
25:20biblical stuff, right? Noah's ark. Um
25:23the ark of the covenant,
25:25>> it what it basically it's like a fancy
25:28way of talking about a container. The
25:30ark is to hold something. So the the
25:33Noah's ark held Noah and all the animals
25:37and so on. The ark of the covenant, the
25:40name says it. It's to hold the covenant.
25:42It's the it's like it's being called the
25:44container of the covenant, right? But
25:46it's sort of arcs like a grander word
25:48for this. It's the container that holds
25:50and protects the covenant. So Moses
25:54takes the stone tablets and he puts them
25:56in a golden container, this golden ark.
25:59So what's but then what's the function
26:00of the ark? So if you look at the what
26:04we're told about the Jewish temple, it's
26:09built in like what we might call kind of
26:11like concentric zones of holiness,
26:16right? You have the outside place is the
26:18least holy. So like in the New
26:19Testament, Gentiles could go into the
26:21outer court of the temple. It's like the
26:23court of the Gentiles. So kind of like,
26:25you know, pe anybody can go on the
26:27temple grounds. You don't have to have a
26:28temple recommend to do that. Or maybe
26:30the very front lobby just inside the
26:33front doors, you don't have to show your
26:35temple recommend yet. Yeah.
26:37>> Right. Some temples that were built in
26:40the 1800s have maybe some others, I
26:43don't know, have like a holy of holies
26:44today in them. So, we're familiar with
26:47this idea at least in general. And not
26:49anyone can go in there for any reason,
26:50right? Like it's it's more special. So
26:54where you can go within that sacred
26:57space depends and it's like there it's
27:00increasing holiness the closer you go to
27:02the holy place. That's how the Jewish
27:04temple was built. And in this most
27:07center part the holiest of holies, the
27:10most sacred place was the ark of the
27:13covenant. And inside that ark was the
27:16source of holiness for the temple. It
27:18was the stone tablets. Why is that the
27:21center place, the source of the holiness
27:23of the Jewish temple? Because God
27:25touched those tablets with his own
27:28finger. So they are imbued with some of
27:31the presence of God. So the temple is a
27:34house for the ark which is the house for
27:38the tablets that are imbued that God
27:40imbued with his presence by his own
27:42finger, his own touch. That's what the
27:46ark is. That's what the temple is.
27:50I'm thinking of the relics and what they
27:52signify right now.
27:54>> Yeah,
27:54>> those are very important in cons in
27:56consideration of of of this pattern.
27:58Keep going though. What else is in there
27:59that we that people may not know is in
28:01there?
28:01>> So, so the temple so the the ark of the
28:05covenant we what we got to understand
28:07what you got to understand is it's it it
28:09ain't furniture. Okay, the ark of the
28:11covenant is not furniture. It's not
28:13decor. It is vital to the very function
28:17of the temple. the very purpose of the
28:19temple. It holds this holiest
28:22relic. It holds the presence of God, but
28:25it also functions. It acts as an altar,
28:28the holiest altar of the temple. So once
28:31a year in the fall, there's a fall f
28:34well, okay, let me say every year
28:36there's a fall festival season. And um
28:39one holy day in that fall festival
28:42season, the holiest day of the Jewish
28:45calendar, there is a special sacrifice
28:49where the Israelite pre high priest gets
28:52to go into the holy of holies. So
28:54ordinarily, holy of holies is off limits
28:58even to the high priest, the one person
29:00who's allowed to go there without like
29:02like it's understood to be so holy that
29:04if you were to if you touch the ark,
29:07right, you might you might die, right?
29:10So that you know, yeah,
29:12>> people did die,
29:13>> right? There's an incident of that.
29:14You're not supposed to look at or touch
29:17these holy things. You're not supposed
29:18to even go where they are except the
29:20high priest. He's supposed to go once a
29:22year on this holiest day, the day of
29:24atonement. And on that day, there is a
29:27bull who sacrificed for the sins of the
29:29high priest to cleanse him so he can go
29:32into the holy of holies
29:34>> and access the ark. And there's a goat
29:36that sacrificed for the sins of all the
29:38people, sins of Israel. So this, like
29:41the sacrifice of lamb and the Passover
29:44lamb at a different time of the year in
29:46spring, this represents the atonement.
29:49This represents for us the atonement of
29:51Jesus Christ and the ultimate true
29:54forgiveness, permanent, you know, real
29:57spiritual forgiveness of our sins. This
29:59is representing that through the
30:01sacrifice of animals. When that goat is
30:03sacrificed and that bull is sacrificed,
30:06the high priest takes some of the blood
30:08from those sacrifices and he sprinkles
30:10them on the lid of the ark of the
30:11covenant so that the sort of blood can
30:15ascend up to God. And so this the the
30:20ark of the covenant is the altar for the
30:23day of atonement sacrifice for the
30:25people's sins. The sacrifice that
30:27preeminently represents the sacrifice of
30:30the savior for the sins of the world for
30:32our sins.
30:34So no arc, if you don't have an ark of
30:36the covenant, you cannot properly do the
30:41day of atonement, the most important
30:42sacrifice, the day of atonement
30:43sacrifice, because you don't have the
30:46altar where that blood is supposed to be
30:48sprinkled. So it's not optional
30:52for keeping the law of Moses. It's
30:55crucial. It's central.
30:58>> Wow. And it's the mercy seat.
31:00>> Yeah. So the top the the lid is
31:03decorated with two
31:05cherubim um figures of two angels and
31:09they together they maybe their wings
31:12come together and it forms a seat where
31:15symbolically
31:17like and and maybe is understood
31:19literally at times the presence of the
31:21Lord was understood to like sit on that
31:24seat. So it's like a throne for God for
31:27God to like literally come into his
31:29temple. But God's presence is also
31:31represented right below that in the ark
31:34itself where the Lord has touched with
31:36the stone the two the two stones the two
31:39sets of two stones that the Lord has
31:40touched with his own finger. So God's
31:42yes this is the presence of God at the
31:45center of the temple. So it's it's like
31:48I said it's not optional. It's vital. So
31:51then when it's lost,
31:53it's a disaster. Like like like we can't
31:57understand what a disaster that would
31:59be. I don't think we have any sort of
32:02relics that we use today in the church
32:06that would represent. Maybe what it
32:08would be like would be like losing all
32:10the temples,
32:11>> right? It would be a complete disaster.
32:13Yeah.
32:14>> If you don't have all the temples, well
32:16then where do you do all the temple
32:18work? And there's this crucial temple
32:21ritual. You got to have the ark to do
32:23it. So if they're losing the ark,
32:28what are the what are the people going
32:30to do? What are the Nephites going to do
32:31when they're going off? They don't have
32:32an arc. Maybe the ark's even already
32:33gone from this first Babylonian invasion
32:36of Jerusalem. So, so one interesting
32:39kind of side question this raises and I
32:42know everybody's interested in, right?
32:43Because there are all kinds of videos
32:44about this and there are amazing classic
32:47movies like Raiders of the Lost Ark,
32:50right?
32:52>> Question. Yeah. What happened?
32:54>> We don't know. We don't know what
32:56happened to the
32:56>> We don't know. So, the Bible's not
32:58explicit about it. Now, what's kind of
33:00funky is there
33:02>> there is a text that talks about it that
33:06was in some editions of the Bible before
33:10the Apocrypha were taken out. Okay, so
33:13the Apocrypha are taken out sometime in
33:15the 1800s for Protestants, not
33:17Catholics, they still have it.
33:19[laughter]
33:20So, second Mcabes 1 describes the time
33:24of the Mcabes
33:26um within the 150 years before Jesus
33:30>> [snorts]
33:31>> um or something like that. And um it has
33:36a part in second Mcabes 1 where it's
33:38casting back to the time of Jeremiah and
33:41it talks about the ark of the covenant
33:42and it says so Jeremiah actually lived
33:44through the time of Josiah. He lived
33:46through the time of Zedekiah. He lived
33:48through the exile. He lived through the
33:50time that the ark probably disappeared.
33:51>> That's what's interesting. [laughter]
33:53>> Yeah, it disappeared. It should have
33:55disappeared within Lehi's lifetime.
33:56Okay. Um, so second Mcabes 1 says, and
34:00this isn't canonical scripture for
34:03Latter Day Saints. So
34:04>> canonical what up to people who don't
34:05know what that means.
34:06>> So, so it's not part of our cannon of
34:08scripture. It's not like necessarily
34:10authoritative for us. We have a
34:11revelation in the Doctrine of Covenants
34:12that says to Jeff Smith that says
34:15there are a lot of true things in the
34:17Apocrypha and read it for your own
34:20benefit. You can discern, but you got to
34:22discern by the spirit what's right and
34:23what's not. It's not like a blanket
34:25endorsement, but it is saying like it's
34:28a good book with, you know, they're good
34:29books with sacred things in them. Okay?
34:32>> So, in the Apocrypha, there's this
34:33tradition in Second Makabes 1 that
34:36>> Jeremiah knew that this was coming. He's
34:40a prophet. He knows that the exile is
34:42coming and he has and he's also a priest
34:46and so he would have had access to the
34:48temple. We know he was a priest, prophet
34:50and priest. So it says he had the ark of
34:52the covenant taken and hidden in caves
34:55down inside the temple mount in
34:57Jerusalem.
34:58>> So some people think that's where the
35:00ark is because it could have just been
35:01taken away by the Babylonians.
35:03>> I mean let's hope it's still around and
35:06like it shows up right in one way or
35:08another. That would be amazing, right?
35:10Um, but what second Mcabes 1 says is it
35:14was hidden somewhere in a cavern in the
35:16temple mount. And it also says
35:19fascinatingly
35:21that like the biblical temple had an
35:25eternal flame that was always supposed
35:27to be kept burning in it, Solomon's
35:29temple. And it says that Jeremiah had
35:33priests. He instructed priests that when
35:36the Babylonians came and hauled them off
35:38to Babylon, that they were supposed to
35:40keep that fire going, like take vessels
35:42where they could keep the fire burning
35:44in the vessels. So there's this eternal
35:47flame that's supposed to burn. And
35:49Jeremiah says to other priests, take the
35:52fire with you in these containers to
35:54Babylon.
35:55>> Take the fire with you in these
35:57containers to
35:58>> keep it burning. Like keep the flame
36:00burning. And they would have used like
36:01oil like not like just like a can. It
36:04would be like burning oil. So take it
36:06with you. And they take the flame
36:09according to second Macabes 1. They take
36:11it to Babylon.
36:13But then when they return to Jerusalem
36:1570 years later, they've still got the
36:17containers with the flame, but
36:19apparently the flame has gone out. And
36:21the prophet Nehemiah, who in Greek, his
36:24name is Nemius. Okay. So that's what it
36:26calls him in the Apocrypha because it
36:28was written Mcabes was written in Greek.
36:30Um so it says that Nehemiah when they're
36:33starting up worship they they rebuild
36:36the temple. They're starting up worship
36:37in the temple again. They look in these
36:42containers of the fire to see is the
36:46fire still burning so that we can
36:49relight the fire in the temple. And what
36:52they find is there's not fire anymore.
36:54But what there is is a flammable liquid.
36:57[clears throat]
36:57>> Okay? So I'm gonna read you exactly what
37:00it says in second Mcabes 1 verse 36. And
37:04I died when I read this. Okay? And
37:06Nemius Nehemiah called this thing the
37:10liquid Napar
37:13which is as much as to say a cleansing
37:15but many men call it Nephi.
37:21>> Spelled
37:22>> I don't even want to look. Nephi.
37:24>> I don't even need to look capital E hi.
37:28>> The meaning of what is Nephi?
37:30>> Cleansing.
37:32>> Cleansing.
37:32>> So
37:33>> that word is what?
37:34>> In first Mcabes 136 at least, Nephi
37:38means cleansing. So So they use it to do
37:41a cleansing of their temple. Like they
37:44cleanse, they pour this liquid on the
37:46altar to like cleanse it. And then they
37:48light that liquid, that flammable
37:50liquid, some sort of petroleum liquid on
37:51fire. So what to make of the fact that
37:55that cleansing liquid when they build
37:56their new temple is called Nephi. I
37:59don't know
37:59>> what language was the origin language.
38:03>> I don't translate translated to Nephi
38:05from what? Greek.
38:07>> I don't I don't think Greek,
38:08>> but that same word means Nephi. Okay.
38:11>> Yeah. So we'd need to look more into
38:12that. I I you know,
38:14>> it's just ironically
38:15>> I'm just telling you it's Nephi for
38:17whatever that's worth. Okay. What?
38:20>> [laughter]
38:20>> So,
38:23>> I'm good. I' I've got enough. I've got
38:25enough. I've [laughter] had enough. I
38:27can't even I can't handle it. I can't
38:30This is like
38:31>> Well, that's too bad cuz we're just
38:32getting started. So, [laughter]
38:34so um so, so I couldn't help but bring
38:37in that just cuz it's like what?
38:40>> What? Tell me tell me the day that you
38:42realized that. When did you discover
38:43that?
38:44>> That was a long time ago.
38:45>> But, but what was the reality? I was
38:46reading the King James Apocrypha
38:49>> and I'm like, Nephi? What's Nephi doing
38:52in here? And what what is this talk?
38:54Like I was confused about what the whole
38:56story that I was reading was about. I
38:58didn't understand that it was talking
38:59about when they come back from Babylon
39:02and they built a new temple and they're
39:04trying to dedicate rededicate the altar
39:06of the temple. I didn't know who Nemius
39:08was that it's Nehemiah. I was just when
39:10I read I was confus I was wowed and
39:12confused.
39:14>> It's just interesting. So the the
39:15connection to you that makes it so
39:17interesting, the reason why you wanted
39:18to share it would be
39:20>> well for one thing that it's the it's
39:22the name Nephi, right? But but also that
39:26this is a story about like restoration
39:30of Jewish temple worship. The Jews go
39:32off, they're they're taken off in exile
39:35to Babylon and they have to go back and
39:37rebuild a temple and restart Jewish
39:39temple worship there. Well, guess who
39:42else has basically the same problem?
39:45Nephi himself. Lehi and Nephi, right?
39:49>> They have the same problem. They lost,
39:53like I said, they lost the promised
39:54land. They lost the sacred city. They
39:57lost the They lost Solomon's temple.
40:00They lost the ark of the covenant that
40:04was its most important altar. They lost
40:06the sacred things. The high priest's
40:09breastplate, the high priest's crown,
40:11the high priest's German thumbum. They
40:14lost all of these things. So, they've
40:17got to replace them, right? They have to
40:21replace them. Well, why do they have to
40:23replace them? Because the Nephites keep
40:26the law of Moses. They tell us they
40:28keep, it says all over the Book of
40:30Mormon, many times it says we keep the
40:31law of Moses.
40:32>> And they show examples
40:33>> to keep the law of Moses. What do you
40:35need? You need, first of all, you need a
40:38temple like Solomon's temple. Well, they
40:40lost Solomon's temple.
40:42So, Nephi says, "We built a temple that
40:45was like unto Solomon's temple." He says
40:48that in Second Nephi. So, they're trying
40:50to
40:52lost. God tells them, "I'm going to lead
40:53you to a new promised land." They're
40:55going away from the biblical promised
40:57land. God gives them a new promised
40:58land. That's step one. You got to have
41:00your promised land. Step two, you got to
41:02have a temple like Solomon's temple.
41:04Nephi says, "We built the temple like
41:05Solomon's temple." Step three,
41:07somebody's got to act as the high
41:08priest. I think Nephi acts as priest and
41:12king. There are some signs that his
41:13brother Jacob might also function in a
41:16kind of role of high priest, right? But
41:18you also need, you don't just need a
41:20temple. You need the right altars in
41:22that temple. You need a substitute for
41:24the ark of the covenant. You need your
41:27own ark of the covenant to do the day of
41:30atonement sacrifice and live the law of
41:32Moses. The Nephites needed their own ark
41:35of the covenant.
41:38What was it? What was the ark of the
41:40covenant? And the ark of the covenant is
41:41not just an empty box.
41:43>> It derives its holiness from what's in
41:46it that has more sacredness that has the
41:50presence of God in it. So what did they
41:53have in it? What was the ark of the
41:55covenant and what was in it? Those are
41:58giant questions that occurred to me as I
42:01was trying to piece all this together.
42:02So, so I was doing this research over
42:04years partly for this thing, right? My
42:06book on the last 116 pages because I
42:09wanted to understand like the temple
42:12worship
42:14in the among the Nephites in the lost
42:17pages of the Book of Mormon and in the
42:19Book of Mormon that we have. How did it
42:21work?
42:22>> And how did it work when they didn't
42:23have Moses's arc of the covenant? How
42:25did they do it? How did they do the Day
42:27of Atonement sacrifice? So, that's part
42:29of what we're going to talk about today.
42:32is what was the Nephi Arc of the
42:33Covenant? What what were their sacred
42:35relics? What was in that ark?
42:37>> What replaced the biblical
42:40elements of the temple?
42:41>> So, what else was in there? We have the
42:42stone tablets. We know we have the
42:45actual ark itself. We mentioned the idea
42:47of the the mercy seat in that in that
42:49connection.
42:50>> Uh what what else is in it?
42:52>> So, so what we have in it is we have the
42:56stone. So, we have the stone tablets.
43:00We have the
43:03some of the things that we have are not
43:06in it. They're with it.
43:07>> Yeah.
43:08>> The high priest is the one guy who can
43:10access the ark of the covenant. He's got
43:12the German thumbum.
43:14>> So the German thumbum of course they
43:15attach to a breastplate and he uses the
43:17German thumbum two stones the German
43:20thumbum to receive revelation. So it's
43:22two stones kind of like two stone
43:24tablets, right? But he's got these two
43:26stones. M
43:27>> um he
43:29has also with it
43:33we have
43:36in Hebrews it tells us there is Aaron's
43:39rod that budded which was used as a kind
43:41of instrument of revelation when they
43:43were trying to see they had each tribe
43:45had a stick basically like a branch
43:50>> and when they were trying to figure out
43:54which tribe gets the blessings of being
43:57priests serving the temple. They laid
44:00the 12 sticks or branches out overnight
44:03and in the morning there was a
44:05miraculous sign. One of them even though
44:07it's like a dead branch detached from
44:09the detached from the tree, it grew buds
44:12on it. So it's Aaron's rod that bud it.
44:14So it was an it was a miraculous
44:16instrument of revelation for them on the
44:18Exodus.
44:20>> The they also had a pot of mana. So, of
44:24course, mana, they find it in the
44:26morning, right? They go out during the
44:29Exodus, 40 years of the Exodus. It's
44:31this round ball that they find on the
44:33ground in the morning. And
44:37they are they they it's edible. They eat
44:41it. This is how they get their
44:42miraculous sustenance during their time
44:45in the wilderness during their Exodus.
44:48So, and there are there are other temple
44:52relics, right? So, these are the things
44:55so that are in the ark of the covenant,
44:58right? We know the stone tablets. And
45:00then Hebrews says Aaron's rod that
45:02budded and the pot of mana
45:06>> symbolizing God's
45:08care for them, feeding them in the
45:10wilderness.
45:11>> Then with that, we've also got the high
45:14priest
45:16who accesses the ark. He's got his
45:18breastplate. He's got the man thumbum.
45:20He's also got a crown. But on the front
45:22of that crown is the only There's just
45:26one gold plate that's mentioned in the
45:28entire Bible that's engraved. One
45:30engraved gold plate. It's a gold plate
45:35on the high priest crown that says
45:36holiness to the Lord.
45:38>> Wow.
45:38>> Okay.
45:39>> So So these are all temple relics.
45:42Holiness to These are all temple relics.
45:45These are all arc of the covenant relics
45:47and high priest relics. So think about
45:52when we think about what was the Nephi
45:55Ark of the Covenant.
45:57You talked earlier about when Joseph
46:00Smith goes to the hill, like we all know
46:03the story of when Joseph Smith goes to
46:05the hill,
46:06>> he finds the plates. And what does he
46:08find a man? He finds didn't just find
46:09the plates, he finds other relics, too.
46:11>> He does. And what does he find with the
46:13plates that we don't usually think so
46:16much about? Right. And what are the what
46:19are the plates and these other sacred
46:21relics contained in? They're in a stone
46:25box.
46:26>> Yeah.
46:26>> They're in a stone box.
46:27>> They're in a stone box. And
46:30>> Martin Harris in 1840 says he tells a
46:36friend John A. Clark that
46:40that stone box
46:42has that that stone box is an ark. He
46:45calls it an ark.
46:46>> Martin calls it an ark.
46:48>> So why would he call the stone box an
46:52ark? Well, we already know the Nephites
46:55had to have an arc. They had to have an
46:56[clears throat] arc of the covenant.
46:57>> He calls it the ark.
46:58>> He's calling the stone box an ark.
47:01>> So, could what Joseph Smith found be a
47:03Nephite ark of the covenant? Well, to
47:07figure that out, we want to see how much
47:09does it parallel the biblical work of
47:10the covenant. So, for instance,
47:12>> what was in
47:15the stone box
47:17and how does that connect with what was
47:20in the biblical arc of the covenant? So,
47:23biblical arc of the covenant, most
47:24importantly, it carries
47:27the covenant. It carries the tablets
47:32on which God has written his word.
47:35carries the ark of the covenant is a
47:39>> gold ark
47:42that carries stone tablets
47:45>> and other things.
47:46>> The ark in Kamora is a stone ark that
47:51carries gold tablets.
47:55>> It's an exact exact inversion.
47:57>> Interesting.
47:58>> You've got a a a gold box with stone
48:01tablets
48:02>> in the biblical temple. You've got a
48:06stone box with gold tablets that Joseph
48:09Smith finds in Kamura.
48:12>> The inversion. What do you What? Why
48:14would it be inverted then?
48:15>> I don't know. [laughter]
48:16Like like
48:18>> Well, that's interesting.
48:19>> May maybe I mean maybe in part because I
48:22mean it's playing on the same pattern,
48:24but maybe in part it's because it
48:27wouldn't have worked to do a giant book
48:28of stone tablets,
48:31right? Like stone you can only cut it so
48:33thin. it's more brittle.
48:34>> Whereas with gold, you can do a whole
48:38stack. You can do a whole book.
48:41>> So, if you're going to have a book of
48:44gold tablets
48:46and you want to follow kind of the
48:48pattern of the biblical arc of the stone
48:52tablets on a gold box, you just do the
48:54reverse. You do the inversion. Ah, you
48:57put your gold tablets in a stone box.
49:01So, it's definitely a box and tablets.
49:03Those are very, very consistent
49:05patterns.
49:06>> Right. Right.
49:08>> Right. And then what do you have in that
49:11box in Kamura? You've got engraved gold
49:14plates. Well, are those familiar from
49:17the biblical temple? Yes, they are.
49:19Because the high priest, only mention of
49:21an engraved gold plate in the entire
49:23Bible is that the high priest has one on
49:26his crown. and he's the guy who accesses
49:29the ark of the covenant once a year on
49:31the day of atonement. And so the gold
49:33plates themselves are connected with the
49:36Jewish temple relics.
49:38>> So you're you're comparing that
49:40>> crown in the engraving to potentially
49:42the gold
49:43>> to the golden plates. Yeah.
49:44>> And what's the significance of that?
49:47So for one thing, it would suggest that
49:50the golden plates are a kind of temple
49:53relic or high priestly relic, which is
49:56not usually how we think of the golden
49:58plates, right? We just think of them as
50:00a book that happened to be engraved on
50:02gold plates, but in fact, there's a
50:05symbolic connection of the gold engraved
50:08golden plates with the high priest in
50:11the temple. Now that should be very to a
50:13temple building people like the
50:14Latter-day Saints that should be
50:16significant.
50:16>> Very significant.
50:21>> So what else do you have in the stone
50:23box?
50:25>> You have the Leona.
50:28>> You got the le according to Yeah. So
50:30according So Joseph's sister says you
50:32got the Leona.
50:34>> There are a few things that
50:37>> Yeah. So, so with the gold plates in
50:40particular, bound with those plates,
50:43you've got the interpreters.
50:45>> That's right.
50:45>> Right.
50:46>> Two stones.
50:47>> Right. And we also call them the arm and
50:50thumbum. Right. So,
50:52>> we do. [laughter]
50:53>> So, where were
50:56>> you can't just say that that fast and
50:57just move on. [laughter]
50:58You can't just say that and move on.
51:00>> So, it's a parallel to obviously the
51:01biblical
51:02>> literally the same way
51:03>> the the biblical high priest Sherman
51:04Thma. They're another temple relic. So,
51:07so far we've got
51:10>> like temple relic, temple relic, temple
51:11relic.
51:13>> Not a coincidence.
51:14>> When we look at the stone box, it's
51:15like, oh, well, this is like a reverse
51:17of the biblical arc of the covenant. And
51:19you have sacred tablets in it that are
51:22like the sacred tablets that are in the
51:24biblical arc of the covenant. And oh,
51:26you've got engraved gold plates in them.
51:28And that's like there's an engraved gold
51:30plate one place in the Bible, and that's
51:32on the high priest's crown. So it's a
51:34temple connected with temple relics.
51:37Then you've got interpreter thumbum
51:40among the Nephites. Well, that's like
51:42the yurman thumbum that the biblical
51:46high priest has. So that's also a temple
51:49relic. So do we usually think of the
51:53items that the sacred objects with the
51:56gold plates and the stone box as temple
51:58relics? No. But are they temple relics?
51:59Yes.
52:00>> How can we know for sure that these are
52:01temple relics?
52:04So
52:05I I mean for one thing yurum and
52:08>> thumbum
52:10>> neph that just by definition that is a
52:12temple relic. It's what the high priest
52:14uses on his breastplate. But as we lay
52:16out more of the parallels that will
52:18become more apparent.
52:19>> Okay.
52:19>> Okay. So so let's here's one thing okay
52:23that helps show it. Where were the
52:24Nephiram and thumbum from? Where were
52:27the interpreters from? How did what
52:30where did we first have them mentioned
52:32in the Book of Mormon? What's the
52:33earliest?
52:33>> Mosiah, the Gerodites, the last
52:36>> So, King Mosiah has them. It looks like
52:38maybe this argument that King Benjamin
52:41has them first chronologically there.
52:44The brother of Jared, brother of Jared
52:46has them. Okay. How does he get them?
52:48He's up on a mountaintop. They're on an
52:51Exodus.
52:53They're being led by God's presence in a
52:56cloud. What's that like? That's
52:59>> Moses. That's the Exodus, right? So, the
53:02brother of Jared's on an Exodus
53:05and he goes on a mountaintop. Does this
53:07sound familiar? Somebody on an Exodus
53:09being led by a cloud to a promised land
53:12goes up on a mountaintop and meets with
53:14God there. And God touches two stones.
53:21Does this is this sounding familiar?
53:23That's
53:23>> now the chronology
53:25with the brother of Jared and Moses.
53:27What's the chronology?
53:28>> Brother of Jared's earlier,
53:29>> which blows my mind.
53:32>> Mhm. Mhm.
53:33>> The brother of Jared is before.
53:36>> He's significantly before. He's like
53:38thousand years before or close to it,
53:42right? He's before, but he's parallel to
53:44Moses. So patterns, we got the same
53:47patterns. We have patterns of
53:49restoration playing out. We have
53:50patterns of Exodus playing out all
53:52through the scriptures, all through the
53:55Bible, the Book of Mormon.
53:57>> Right. Right.
53:59>> That is significant to me. Very
54:01significant in the witness of what
54:02you're saying that it was before.
54:04>> It was before
54:04>> and how important that is that it is in
54:06the Book of Mormon
54:08>> and it's before
54:09>> it's before it's before the Exodus of
54:11Moses, but parallel to the Exodus of
54:14Moses. So, the brother of Jared is on an
54:16Exodus. He goes up on a mountaintop like
54:18Si.
54:20He talks to the Lord and the Lord
54:22touches these this pair of stones, these
54:26two stones.
54:27So those are touched by the finger of
54:30God like the stone tablets that Moses
54:34gets. And those stone tablets that Moses
54:37gets, of course, are put into the ark of
54:40the covenant.
54:41>> [snorts]
54:41>> So, where do the two stones touched by
54:45the Lord for the brother Jared on the
54:48mountaintop? Where did those end up?
54:50They're in the stone box.
54:54>> The same.
54:55>> So, you have a pair of stones touched by
54:58the finger of God in the ark of the
54:59covenant. And you have a pair of stones
55:01touched by the finger of God in the
55:03stone box that Joseph Smith gets up on a
55:05mountaintop essentially hilltop on
55:07Kamora. Ah, it's not coincidence.
55:11That's not coincidence. It's a parallel.
55:13And it's part of part of what shows it's
55:15not a coincidence is it's part of an
55:17intricate series of parallels. Right? So
55:20if they were one parallel, yeah, that
55:22would be one thing. But when we have a
55:24whole set of interlocking parallels,
55:27then it starts to look way less like a
55:29coincidence and way more like a a
55:31design, a pattern. It's intended to be
55:35this way. It plays out again and again.
55:39>> [snorts]
55:39>> So that it gets better, right? Because
55:42in the Bible, what is the high priest's
55:47uran thumbum attached to?
55:50>> Attached to plate. Breastplate. Okay. So
55:53in the stone box where Joseph Smith
55:55finds the Book of Mormon thumbum, what
55:59is it with? And what is it attached to?
56:02A breastplate.
56:03>> Man, this is insane, man. This is I got
56:06to let this marinate for a second.
56:08Honestly,
56:11>> because the brother of Jared's before
56:13that that is the biggest part that's
56:14blowing my mind.
56:16>> This is the most mind-blowing thing
56:17you've told me so far. Honestly, it
56:18really is. I'm not saying the other
56:20stuff wasn't amaz This honestly is.
56:21>> Well, it's going to it's going to get
56:22better.
56:23>> Keep going. [laughter]
56:24>> I'm not trying to slow you down, but I'm
56:26telling you, the chronology is very
56:28important for me from my perspective.
56:30>> So So this this all
56:32>> How did you make that connection, man?
56:33>> So So peacemail, one piece at a time.
56:36It's not like it all snapped together.
56:38It's I'm giving it to you all in a
56:40linear way where it just builds. But I
56:43had to see it like one piece at a time.
56:45Some of the pieces just came together
56:46because one would trigger another would
56:48trigger another,
56:49>> right? But some of it came across a
56:52period different pieces actually. Some
56:54of it came all together kind of and some
56:56of it came different years.
56:58>> It makes it way more powerful
56:59>> and I actually see more and more all the
57:01time. Right. I I haven't finished making
57:04connections. I'm still making
57:05connections.
57:06>> Okay. I'm sorry. You can keep going.
57:08>> So, so, so remember we got so far we've
57:10got temple, temple, temple.
57:12>> Yes. The breastplate,
57:13>> right? And we're talking about
57:15breastplate and interpreters. So, kind
57:17of an aside of how does this all we're
57:19going to come back to. There are more
57:20relics in the ark of the covenant. And
57:22there are more relics in the stone box
57:23that connect. But first, why don't we
57:25segue for a minute into how are these
57:28relics used
57:30>> by Joseph Smith that he relics he finds
57:32in the stone box? How were they used?
57:34And how does that parallel to biblical
57:37temple and to latter- day temples? Okay.
57:41So, of course, interpreters and
57:43breastplate, what are they used? What
57:44are they there for?
57:46>> To understand the covenant.
57:47>> To understand the covenant to to
57:49>> understand the text.
57:49>> Interpreters are there to interpret
57:51>> Yeah.
57:51>> the book of the covenant to translate
57:53it.
57:54>> And so, that's what Joseph Smith uses
57:56them for. So, there's a time when he's
57:58translating the lost what's now the lost
58:01manuscript wasn't lost then. Um, and
58:04he's dictating to Martin Harris. And
58:09when a Methodist minister comes to visit
58:12Joseph in Kirtland in 1836,
58:15the minister asks, this be around the
58:17time the temple's dedicated, the
58:19Kirtland Temple. The minister asked
58:22Joseph, "How did you translate the Book
58:24of Mormon?" And Joseph says, "I use the
58:28interpreters." He's talking about for
58:30part of it. We have evidence he uses
58:32another instrument. sear stone for part
58:34of it, right? But he uses the
58:37interpreters and he says they I would
58:40attach them to the breastplate.
58:44There was a veil that would be hung
58:46between me and the scribe.
58:48Why? Because temple relics, nobody's
58:52supposed to see or touch them except the
58:53high priest. Joseph's misacting in what
58:55role? Therefore, that of high priest.
58:58He's like the biblical high priest.
59:00Okay. High priest is the one who wears
59:02the breastplate. Joseph Smith wears the
59:03breastplate. High priest is the one who
59:06uses the German thumbum. Joseph Smith's
59:08using the German thumbum. Interpreters.
59:10[snorts]
59:11He says he uses the golden plates. Well,
59:14golden plates, you know, like the
59:16engraved gold plate that's on the high
59:17priest crown, right? [clears throat] So,
59:18Joseph Smith is stepping into the role
59:20of high priest. He says he's got the
59:22plates in front of him. He says to
59:24Truman Co. that he puts his finger on
59:27one of the characters and when he does
59:29he can see on the veil or curtain hung
59:33in front of him he can see the words of
59:36translation.
59:37>> I've never heard that before.
59:39>> Yeah. He says
59:40>> when is that common knowledge?
59:43>> No, it's not common knowledge but it was
59:44recorded. The guy recorded it and
59:46published it soon after Joseph Smith
59:48told it to him. He wrote it in a letter.
59:49>> Who is this?
59:50>> Truman co a Methodist minister who
59:52visited Joseph Smith and Nabu. So this
59:54is it's a known historical source. Is it
59:56well known to most people? No. Is it
59:59known to historians? Has been published?
1:00:01Yes. Right. It's so this was published
1:00:02at the time. Okay.
1:00:04>> When like right after Joseph Smith says
1:00:06it
1:00:07>> and it fits with other things we have
1:00:09from Martin Harris and others. So it's
1:00:11it's confirmed by other things. Okay. So
1:00:14Joseph is note that Joseph is touching
1:00:16the the plates, the tablets, the
1:00:20characters. Okay. He's touching them
1:00:22with his finger and then he's seeing the
1:00:25words of translation in front of him as
1:00:28if they were being I think he's seeing
1:00:30them spiritually, but it's as if they
1:00:31were being projected onto this veil in
1:00:34front of him. He's seeing sacred symbols
1:00:37projected onto the veil in front of him
1:00:39that separates him from his scribe. And
1:00:44the um so so think about what we have.
1:00:48We have an engraved gold plate that
1:00:50Joseph's using like the engraved gold
1:00:54plate on the high priest crown. We have
1:00:56interpreters. We have breastplate. We
1:00:59have a veil.
1:01:01Does that not scream temple?
1:01:04>> Yeah, it does.
1:01:06>> In Greek gold plate like the high priest
1:01:08inter you know interpreters of your
1:01:10thumb like the high priest breastplate
1:01:11like the high priest veil like in the
1:01:14temple like the veil in front of the
1:01:16holy of holies. Right. And so you have
1:01:23Joseph speaking the sacred words. And
1:01:25this to me was it's I put in my book. It
1:01:29just completely blew my mind. Hey,
1:01:32Joseph is speaking the sacred words
1:01:34through the veil to the scribe. The
1:01:37scribe writes them down. The scribe
1:01:39repeats them back to make sure he got
1:01:41them right.
1:01:44So, temple context, veil, sacred words
1:01:48being spoken through the veil from one
1:01:51person to another.
1:01:52>> Wow.
1:01:53>> The receiver of those words repeating
1:01:55the sacred words back to the first
1:01:57person through the veil.
1:02:00>> Wow.
1:02:02>> That just sounds remarkably familiar to
1:02:05me. Right. And it will to many others as
1:02:08well.
1:02:09And so this
1:02:12this is part of the translation process.
1:02:16This is how Joseph Smith is using the
1:02:18Nephite sacred relics that he finds in
1:02:20their stone ark, their ark of the
1:02:22covenant. This is how he's using them.
1:02:25And it all has resonances,
1:02:29temple connections.
1:02:32And like it has symbolic connections,
1:02:35too. like the we're told that one of
1:02:39Martin Harris's close associates and
1:02:41then Orson Pratt hearing it from other
1:02:43witnesses to the Book of Mormon. They
1:02:45both say that,
1:02:48you know, when the engravings are
1:02:50engraved into those gold plates, it
1:02:53think of it, it's like gold on gold.
1:02:55Like it's going to be kind of hard to
1:02:56read
1:02:57>> the just like grooves of gold on plates
1:03:00of gold.
1:03:01>> Yeah. So they both say that there was a
1:03:05kind of hard black stain
1:03:08that was put into the grooves to make
1:03:10the black of those engravings, those
1:03:13characters stand out against the bright
1:03:16gold of the page, the plate.
1:03:19So then we have accounts that when
1:03:21Joseph
1:03:23looks
1:03:25into the
1:03:28um when he's maybe he might it might be
1:03:31dark kind of with behind the veil
1:03:34>> when he's using the interpreters. There
1:03:36are accounts that he uses sear stone or
1:03:38possibly one of the interpreters in the
1:03:40hat where he's blocking out the light
1:03:43so that he can just kind of have
1:03:45darkness so the spiritual light can
1:03:46shine. you can be more perceptible to
1:03:48him. And we have accounts that say that
1:03:51the words of translation were written in
1:03:53letters of light. So think about you've
1:03:56got darkness.
1:03:57>> Interesting.
1:03:58>> And letters of light shining from the
1:04:00darkness. So when he's trans, so when
1:04:02those characters are on the plate, it's
1:04:06dark characters against a golden
1:04:10background, a bright golden background.
1:04:12when they're translated, it's characters
1:04:15of light against a dark background, a
1:04:18background of darkness. It's another
1:04:20inversion. It's a flip.
1:04:23>> And that is a spiritual symbol of the
1:04:27fact that we're going from darkness to
1:04:29light. The these these characters are
1:04:32coming out of obscurity. These words are
1:04:34coming out of obscurity into light.
1:04:36They're coming out of we're coming out
1:04:38of the darkness of not understanding
1:04:41those characters and what they mean. Not
1:04:44having those words of God, being in a
1:04:47state of apostasy. We're coming from
1:04:48that into illumination. We're coming
1:04:51into light. So there are literal
1:04:54physical aspects of this and there are
1:04:57experiential aspects for Joseph Smith
1:04:59and there's there's spiritual symbolism
1:05:01and we tend to just like scratch the
1:05:03surface, right? But this is so rich.
1:05:06Like we as a Latter Day Saint people,
1:05:09like we have so much to dive into. And
1:05:11I'm not thinking, oh, this is sort of
1:05:14like what I'm laying out is sort of like
1:05:16the end of the story. I think this is
1:05:17like the beginning where maybe we can
1:05:20start to figure out and other people are
1:05:22doing related work, right? Not just me,
1:05:26right? And it certainly shouldn't just
1:05:27be me or just a handful of scholars. We
1:05:29got millions of Latterday Saints,
1:05:31millions who can delve into what's in
1:05:34our scriptures, what's in the history of
1:05:36the church, and understand these
1:05:38connections that bring light
1:05:42to what's going on.
1:05:44>> It's like the Book of Mormon in the
1:05:46actual story,
1:05:48you know, when it when it's revealed.
1:05:50So, these relics are very
1:05:53>> very close. I mean, help me help me
1:05:56understand cuz there's so many different
1:05:58depictions and you have these different
1:05:59sources that you're telling me. I'm
1:06:01like, I've never heard that source
1:06:02before and it it blows my mind. Many
1:06:04people say that he uh oftenimes just had
1:06:07the plates wrapped and he would still
1:06:10just put his head in the hat and see it.
1:06:13>> What would you say to that?
1:06:15>> So, we have accounts of that. We have
1:06:17accounts of both.
1:06:19>> I don't think that's a contradiction.
1:06:20It's he's using one method at one time,
1:06:22he's using another method at another
1:06:24time. It might be more convenient at
1:06:27some points to
1:06:29>> um sometimes they might do it the more
1:06:32formal way with the more sacred setup
1:06:34that's more like the Jewish temple and
1:06:36the biblical high priest. At times it
1:06:38might be more convenient
1:06:42just to work with, you know, the stone
1:06:45in the hat. If he can still see the the
1:06:48words of translation spiritually, it
1:06:50does doesn't make much difference,
1:06:52right? Doesn't seem to to me.
1:06:54>> And so I there's some people who argue
1:06:57it was just one and some people seem to
1:06:59think it was just the other. I we have
1:07:02sources saying he is the interpreters
1:07:04and that whole sacred setup sometimes
1:07:06and we have sources saying at other
1:07:07times it's like the hat becomes like the
1:07:10veil and the the stone is either one of
1:07:14the interpreters or it's sort of like a
1:07:16sacred standin
1:07:17>> for the interpreters. It substitutes for
1:07:19it. And so God can work in we have a God
1:07:22who can work in all kinds of ways but
1:07:24they're parallel ways you know
1:07:26>> and so so yeah
1:07:28>> I'm just thinking because Emma was the
1:07:30first scribe. Do we have any record?
1:07:32>> Do we have any records of how it was
1:07:33done when when you did it with
1:07:34>> Emma? We don't know if she ever had the
1:07:37full setup. what she doesn't say she
1:07:40didn't but the one time I think that she
1:07:42mentions in a letter
1:07:45>> what was the usual translation setup
1:07:47when she was translating with Joseph it
1:07:49was the sear stone
1:07:51>> okay
1:07:52>> in a hat and a sear stone so so
1:07:54sometimes people get like upset about
1:07:56sear stones sear so so what are the
1:07:58German thumbum that the that we have in
1:08:02the scriptures well there are two sacred
1:08:04stones that you use to get revelation
1:08:06and specifically the Nephite
1:08:07interpreters There's their your thumb.
1:08:10They're stones that you see sacred
1:08:11things in. They're sear stones.
1:08:13>> So when people get frustrated with the
1:08:15idea that Joseph Smith used a sear
1:08:16stone, well, what are the interpreters?
1:08:20They're stones that he could use to help
1:08:23him see spiritual things. In other
1:08:25words, as a seer. So in other words,
1:08:27they are seer stones. So there's there's
1:08:30not much difference there. They they
1:08:33function the exact same way. It's all
1:08:35sear stones.
1:08:36>> [laughter]
1:08:37>> Um, so yeah. So, so in the Nephi stone
1:08:42box, Nephi arc of the covenant called an
1:08:45ark, right? We've got we've we've said
1:08:48we've got the engraved gold plates,
1:08:52right, that are parallel to the high
1:08:54priest gold plate and the stone tablets.
1:08:57We've got the interpreters that are two
1:09:01stones touched by the finger of God like
1:09:02the stone tablets. We've got the uh and
1:09:07their paralyum. We've got the
1:09:09breastplate. Well, we've also got just
1:09:13sister Katherine says the Leona was in
1:09:16the box and we know it was passed down
1:09:18with the other sacred relics among the
1:09:20Nephites, right? They pass these scribes
1:09:22in the Book of Mormon. They always talk
1:09:23about passing these down together.
1:09:25>> So, what is the Leona? Well, it's an
1:09:28instrument of revelation
1:09:30and it's how Lehi and his family on
1:09:33their Exodus
1:09:35got their food, their sustenance. They
1:09:37they didn't have mana dropping from
1:09:41heaven. They had the Leona telling them
1:09:44how to get food. So, it's as an
1:09:48instrument of revelation. And it's
1:09:49parallel to Aaron's rod,
1:09:52>> which was an instrument of revelation.
1:09:54And it's parallel to the pot of mana in
1:09:57the biblical arc of the covenant that
1:09:59represents how the Israelites got their
1:10:01food miraculously on their Exodus. And
1:10:04it gets better, right? [laughter]
1:10:06Because I remember seeing the parallel
1:10:08of like what these things represent.
1:10:10Leona represents how Lehi's people on
1:10:13their Exodus got their food. Pam mana
1:10:15represents how the Israelites on their
1:10:17Exodus got their food.
1:10:19>> Oh my goodness.
1:10:20>> But then
1:10:21>> interesting
1:10:22>> how that but there's also another
1:10:24parallel not just in the function but in
1:10:26the story. How did they get the mana?
1:10:29The mana is a round ball that they'd
1:10:31find in the morning on the ground.
1:10:34>> Do you remember how Lehi gets the Leona?
1:10:37>> It's right at the tent door.
1:10:39>> It's at the tent door. And it says he
1:10:42awoke one morning, opened his tent door,
1:10:45and he finds a round ball on the ground.
1:10:48>> So you're saying
1:10:49>> just like
1:10:50>> the mana, it's it's described the same
1:10:53way. The the Hebrew Bible is explicit
1:10:55that mana was round. They're these round
1:10:58balls you find on the ground in the
1:10:59morning.
1:11:01>> Well, they're on an Exodus to a promised
1:11:03land. Bingo. It's the same thing. It's
1:11:06parallel.
1:11:08So, so far everything in the stone box,
1:11:11all the Nephite sacred relics that they
1:11:13hand down have been parallel to the
1:11:16relics of the Ark of the Covenant and
1:11:18the biblical high priest. Now, there's
1:11:20one that that might break the pattern,
1:11:22right? People might think, "Oh, this
1:11:25one's for sure. This is going to break
1:11:26the pattern." And when I saw it, when I
1:11:29first thought of it, I think I thought
1:11:32this is going to break the pattern.
1:11:34Okay? And that is the sword of Laben.
1:11:37So, so this is like the test case. Okay.
1:11:40Does this all work for all these
1:11:42parallels?
1:11:44What in the world would the sword of
1:11:45Laben have to do with the temple, the
1:11:50high priest, the ark of the covenant,
1:11:52the the Jewish temple?
1:11:53>> Why did you think it would break the
1:11:54pattern at first?
1:11:56>> Um because we don't think high priest
1:11:59and sword. We don't think temple, arc of
1:12:02the covenant, and sword. Like I didn't
1:12:04like and I've never heard anyone I'd
1:12:07never heard anyone say
1:12:09>> there was a sword that was a temple
1:12:10relic
1:12:11>> from the original from the in the box of
1:12:14the ark of the covenant. Is that what
1:12:15you're saying?
1:12:15>> Yeah. I I never heard anyone identify a
1:12:17sw biblical sword as a temple relic.
1:12:20Okay. But to un to look at this
1:12:22carefully and really test this, we got
1:12:25to look at the story of the sword of
1:12:28Laban. How did Nephi get the sword of
1:12:29Laban?
1:12:31>> Yeah.
1:12:34>> So, who is Nephi? He's the future leader
1:12:37of the Nephites, their future king. He
1:12:40faces a more powerful adversary, an
1:12:42adversary that he and his brother say
1:12:45can command 50. He can even slay 50.
1:12:48He's a bad dude.
1:12:51He slays him. Nephi slays him by cutting
1:12:55off his head with his own sword. Then
1:12:58what does he do with the sword? Does he
1:12:59leave it there? He keeps the sword.
1:13:01Keeps the sword. Hey, that sword is kept
1:13:05as a relic. Are there any parallels
1:13:07anywhere in the Bible to this? Is there
1:13:09any place that maybe you have a future
1:13:12king who faces a more powerful adversary
1:13:16that nobody thinks he can defeat and he
1:13:19ends up cutting off his head with his
1:13:21own sword? Anybody come to mind?
1:13:25>> David.
1:13:26>> David. This is the story of future king
1:13:30David and Goliath to a tea. It's the
1:13:34exact same story.
1:13:35>> You think that is what it is. So there's
1:13:38another scholar, friend of mine named
1:13:39Benjamin Maguire who published in I
1:13:42think it was in the journal Interpreter
1:13:44years ago a paper comparing
1:13:48Nephi's story of Laban getting the brass
1:13:53plates and the sword from Laban with the
1:13:55biblical story of David and Goliath. And
1:13:57he shows I don't remember the number but
1:14:00he it's something outrageous. It's may I
1:14:02might be off on my number a little bit,
1:14:04but he counts something like 14
1:14:06parallels in the story and the parallels
1:14:09are all in the exact same order in the
1:14:11two stories really and some of the same
1:14:13language is used. Yeah, if you want to
1:14:16find this, I don't remember the name of
1:14:17the paper, but it's Benjamin Maguire was
1:14:19published in interpreter. He shows that
1:14:21they parallel even more. I had already
1:14:23seen the parallels, but he shows the
1:14:24parallels even more than I had seen
1:14:26them. He shows that it's down to some of
1:14:28the wording. It's verbal level
1:14:30parallels. and he shows that they don't
1:14:32just parallel, they're in the same
1:14:33order. The parallels between the
1:14:35stories. Okay. So, basically what he's
1:14:38argued and what another scholar BYU
1:14:41political scientist null Reynolds has
1:14:42argued, great guy, uh, great scholarship
1:14:45again, um, he shows
1:14:49that Nephi in telling the story in that
1:14:53exact way, he's telling it to parallel
1:14:56the story of David and Goliath. trying
1:14:58to show you I'm the new David like to
1:15:01show like I'm the new king, right? He's
1:15:05he's using the way he tells it is a
1:15:07parallel. It's parallel in its
1:15:08fundamental elements, but it's parallel
1:15:10also because he's trying to bring out
1:15:12the parallels.
1:15:14>> Trying to bring out the parallels. He
1:15:15that's why he uses some of the same
1:15:17wording and puts the wording in the same
1:15:19order as in the biblical story. Hey, but
1:15:22remember the last point that I made
1:15:24about last element of the story of Nephi
1:15:27and the sword of Laben, the sword is
1:15:28kept as a relic. So the question for us
1:15:31is if these are truly fully parallel, is
1:15:35the sword of Goliath
1:15:38kept as a relic? And is it kept
1:15:42specifically as a temple relic? So break
1:15:46out your Bibles. Okay. So, so 1st Samuel
1:15:5021:es 8 and 9.
1:15:51>> So, he goes to the priest.
1:15:53>> So, David is fleeing from Saul.
1:15:55>> He's fleeing from Saul. And David said
1:15:58unto how do you say his name?
1:16:01>> Ahemc.
1:16:01>> Ahemc. And okay. And David.
1:16:03>> So, this is the high priest. So, David
1:16:05flees from Saul. Saul's now trying to
1:16:07kill him because David's supposed to
1:16:08become king and he doesn't want David to
1:16:10be king. He wants to be king. So, he
1:16:12flees to the tabernacle. That's the
1:16:14temple of the time. It's their portable
1:16:15temple. So he flees to the temple in
1:16:19need of a weapon and he talks to the
1:16:21high priest Amalecch.
1:16:23>> And David said unto Ahemc, "And is there
1:16:25not here under thine hand, spear, or
1:16:28sword? For I have neither brought my
1:16:30sword nor my weapons with me, because
1:16:32the king's b king's business required
1:16:35haste." And the priest said, "The sword
1:16:38of Goliath the Philistine
1:16:41whom thou slewest in the valley of Ella.
1:16:45Behold it. Behold, it is it is here
1:16:48wrapped in a cloth behind the ephod.
1:16:52If thou wil take that, take it. For
1:16:54there is no other save that here. And
1:16:57David said, there is none like that.
1:17:00Give it to me. Give it me. So David used
1:17:03So he goes to the temple asking for a
1:17:06sword and the high priest says, "Well,
1:17:09this only sword I've got is the sword of
1:17:11Goliath and it's hanging on the wall
1:17:14behind the ephod." So what's the ephod?
1:17:16Okay, so the ephod is like the cloak or
1:17:20robe or shirt that the high priest wears
1:17:24that he attaches the breastplate to.
1:17:26It's part of the high priest's clothing
1:17:28that the breastplate and therefore the
1:17:30yurman thumbum attached to. So it's
1:17:33going to be kept in the inner precincts
1:17:35of the temple. It's associated with the
1:17:37high priest and the holy of holies. It's
1:17:39part of what he wears when he goes into
1:17:41the holy of holies. The sword of Goliath
1:17:44in the Bible becomes a temple relic. So
1:17:48when the Nephites are passing down the
1:17:50parallel to that sword in their own
1:17:54national history, the sword of Laben,
1:17:59they know that it's a parallel to the
1:18:03biblical sacred relic that was kept in
1:18:05the temple, the sword of Goliath. In
1:18:08other words, the sword of Laban is a
1:18:10temple relic. So when that is passed
1:18:13down, when that is placed reportedly in
1:18:15the stone box with the other relics, it
1:18:19also is a temple relic like the relics
1:18:21in the Jewish temple. So in other words,
1:18:24we're at 100%. Every single object in
1:18:29the stone box on Kamora
1:18:32is a temple relic parallel to the
1:18:36biblical temple relics kept by the high
1:18:40priest in the ark of the covenant or
1:18:43with those relics in the temple.
1:18:48It's all temple.
1:18:51The stone box in Kamura is
1:18:55a Nephite arc of the covenant. When
1:18:58Joseph Smith went up on that hill on
1:19:00September 22nd, 1827,
1:19:03he was repeating biblical sacred
1:19:06patterns. He was finding a new ark of
1:19:10the covenant. He was finding the ark of
1:19:14the restored covenant for God to use to
1:19:19restore his covenant with Israel in our
1:19:24day.
1:19:27That's beautiful, man. Now, this is the
1:19:29end of part one. We don't normally do
1:19:31this, but September 22nd on Monday,
1:19:34we're going to drop part two. Now, what
1:19:37we found in part one was very
1:19:38significant. As I continued to have our
1:19:40our conversation with Don, we discover
1:19:43>> when did all this happen and why did it
1:19:45happen then? September 22nd, 1827 happen
1:19:49to be the feast of trumpets. What's the
1:19:51next thing that [music] Joseph does with
1:19:54those sacred relics? And what's the next
1:19:56Jewish festival? Do they by chance
1:19:59happen to relate? He does those three
1:20:02things exactly on those three fall
1:20:05festival seasons. He's three for three.
1:20:08He's 100%.
1:20:10>> Wow.
1:20:10>> It took 200 years to be noticed, but
1:20:13it's been there the whole time and it
1:20:14just was eating at me and eating at me.
1:20:16And so finally I thought, well, if the
1:20:18significance can't be another fall
1:20:20festival cuz there are no more fall
1:20:21festivals, what could it be? And I was
1:20:23like, you know what? I'm just going to
1:20:24count.
1:20:28>> If you enjoyed this episode, consider
1:20:29subscribing on your platform of choice.
1:20:32Let's Get Real is an original Scripture
1:20:34Central podcast.

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