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We Followed Obama During His Visit To A Federal Prison | HBO Special Report — Transcript

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0:05(metallic jangling)
0:07(heavy metal door slams)
0:10(country western song playing)
0:20(men chattering)
0:21♪ Wanted man in California ♪
0:25♪ Wanted man in Buffalo ♪
0:28♪ Wanted man in Kansas City ♪
0:30♪ Wanted man in Ohio ♪
0:33♪ Wanted man in Mississippi ♪
0:36♪ Wanted man in ol' Cheyenne ♪
0:39♪ Wherever you might look tonight ♪
0:42♪ You might see this wanted man ♪
0:44♪ I might be in Colorado ♪
0:47- ♪ Or Georgia by the sea ♪ - (door slams)
0:50♪ Working for some man ♪
0:52♪ Who may not know at all who I might be ♪
0:56♪ If you ever see me coming ♪
0:59♪ And if you know who I am ♪
1:01♪ Don't you breathe it to nobody ♪
1:04♪ 'Cause you know I'm on the lam ♪
1:07♪ Wanted man in Albuquerque ♪
1:10♪ Wanted man in Syracuse ♪
1:13♪ Wanted man in Tallahassee ♪
1:16♪ Wanted man in Baton Rouge ♪
1:18♪ Well, I've had all that I wanted ♪ (radio chatter)
1:21♪ Of a lot of things I had ♪
1:24♪ And a lot more than I needed ♪
1:26♪ Of some things that turned out bad ♪
1:29Get the ball! ♪ Ba-da-dah ♪
1:30♪ ♪
1:42♪ Yes sir! ♪
1:44(heavy metal door slams)
1:46♪ Here I come, Miss Daisy ♪
1:47(men whooping) ♪ Yeah ♪
1:52(audience cheers, applauds)
1:57♪ ♪
2:04I'm a first time offender.
2:07Life sentence with no parole.
2:14My business was kind of going under.
2:17The economy was bad. I had two small kids.
2:20I borrowed some money from a guy that was doing
2:23what he was doing, and had to pay him.
2:26Well, time came to pay, and I couldn't. I didn't have the money,
2:29so I basically-- He said, "Well, you take this and get the money."
2:33That's where I started. Just trying to survive.
2:36♪ ♪
2:39I'm still in prison 19 plus years later.
2:43It doesn't take five or 10 years
2:46for a person to be rehabilitated.
2:49And it surely doesn't take 20, 30, 40, 50 years,
2:52because your life's gone. Your life's completely gone.
2:56♪ ♪
3:02Rickey Reed: May the 30th, '96.
3:04Yeah, he missed out on a whole lot.
3:07Think about him every day.
3:09Matter of fact I send him a card every year
3:11for his birthday, Father's Day, Christmas,
3:13Thanksgiving, and everything.
3:15And he do the same thing to me.
3:17Oh yeah.
3:19He wasn't no criminal guy.
3:21Didn't smoke, didn't drink, didn't do nothing.
3:25Yup, but that's the way life is.
3:29Got the foreign parts there. We got the American parts here.
3:33Rebuild 'em here. Sand blast 'em here.
3:37Wash 'em there.
3:39This is my daddy's shop. He had 88 people work there,
3:42and you see right there, it says, "Reed's Parts Company."
3:44And I'm still doing Reed's Parts Company.
3:48That's all we know. I don't know what to say.
3:50I'm just waiting on him to get home.
3:52♪ ♪
3:56The system backwards. It's just backwards.
4:02I bet you we haven't talked about him
4:04like, you know, no more than three times,
4:07you know, 'cause, you know, it hurts.
4:12♪ ♪
4:16(sobs softly)
4:19Yup. (sighs)
4:21But we don't talk about it.
4:25Aw, yeah.
4:30Grace Reed: It takes a toll on you,
4:33when you sit down at the dinner table,
4:35Christmas, and Bobby's not there.
4:38Thanksgiving, he's not there.
4:41Children graduate...
4:42(voice breaking) he's not there.
4:45Miguel Moore: Father God, and you know that his mother
4:48has been doing those 19 years... Yes, Lord.
4:50...every day that he's done. Yes, Lord.
4:53LaToya Stewart: I'm angry...
4:56and I've been angry for a long time.
4:59(voice breaking) That was the summer
5:01going into my senior year of high school.
5:04I graduated valedictorian.
5:07I went on to...
5:11go to-- go to college.
5:14I went away to school and I graduated cum laude.
5:18Then I got my master's degree.
5:21Five years ago I got married,
5:24and a year and a half ago I had my first son,
5:27and for every one of those celebrations...
5:31there was an invitation list.
5:35And his name was always on the list.
5:38But I knew he would never be present.
5:41And what's so frustrating
5:44is that even though he wasn't there,
5:47a lot of my success I attribute to him
5:50because he coached me along the way.
5:53Miguel: In the mighty house and name of Jesus. My Lord. My Lord.
5:56(chattering) Bless you.
5:58God bless you.
6:00You know, good people can make bad decisions,
6:03but you shouldn't be punished for it for life.
6:10♪ ♪
6:13America incarcerates more people
6:15than any other country on Earth.
6:17We're home to less than 5% of the world's population,
6:20but 25% of the world's inmates.
6:23Today there are 2.2 million people behind bars in America.
6:28Now that's a 700% increase since 1970.
6:32We lock up hundreds of thousands of people for nonviolent offenses,
6:36and as a result, our prison system is disastrously overcrowded,
6:40and we spend about $80 billion a year just to keep it that way.
6:45Meanwhile, it's minority communities that are getting hit hardest.
6:49So we're here in Washington
6:50to find out for ourselves just how broken the system is.
6:54Now, perhaps the best person to answer this question is
6:57former Attorney General Eric Holder.
7:00So we sat down to talk with this former judge
7:02and federal prosecutor, who from 2009 until last year,
7:05oversaw the entire Justice Department of the United States.
7:09So we have a problem with over-incarceration in this country.
7:14You have whole communities, you know,
7:16that either are locked up or know someone that's locked up
7:19or have been affected by being locked up.
7:21Is the American criminal justice system today broken?
7:25Well, people in various communities,
7:29and especially communities of color, poor communities,
7:32see a criminal justice system that they perceive to be unfair,
7:36and, in fact is, in many ways, unfair.
7:39(police radio chatter)
7:41And they see individual instances
7:43of people they know being treated too harshly.
7:47Serving, you know, too much time in jail...
7:51being held in jail, because they can't make bail.
7:56And that builds up resentment over time...
7:58(police radio chatter) ...and then there is a flash point.
8:01Get out of the car! Get out! (gun firing)
8:03(siren wails)
8:04Holder: Police-civilian interaction that results in a death,
8:07where people think it was unfair. (gun firing)
8:10And that's the spark...
8:11Mmm...that hits that powder keg of resentment,
8:14and then you have what we saw in Ferguson.
8:19(man shouts)
8:23(people shouting)
8:26(man shouts)
8:28Smith: You presided over that investigation
8:31of what happened in Ferguson.
8:33And what did you learn in that investigation?
8:35I think what we saw in Ferguson was
8:37a justice system that was out of control.
8:39Smith: Mm-hmm. Holder: A determination made
8:42that the way to fund government was to arrest people,
8:45involve them in the justice system, (people shouting)
8:49put quotas on cops--
8:51make sure that they wrote enough tickets.
8:53Once you got people into the system,
8:55treat them in an unfair way
8:56so that you built up the fines, built up the fines.
8:59Um, and people got that. They understood what was happening.
9:03Hands up! Hands up! Don't shoot! Don't shoot!
9:06Holder: When I went to Ferguson and talked to people out there,
9:08the sense of anger was palpable.
9:12It pisses people off.
9:15(shouting)
9:16Holder: When an incident occurs,
9:18all of this accumulated anger, um, explodes...
9:23unfortunately, like I suspect we're going to see
9:25in other parts of this country as other incidents occur.
9:28It's not just about here in Ferguson.
9:30It's about North St. Louis, South County,
9:32North County, Kansas, Oklahoma, Illinois,
9:35New York-- everywhere. It's happening every day.
9:39Smith: In April of this year,
9:40the city of Baltimore erupted
9:42when 25-year-old Freddie Gray
9:44died from injuries sustained
9:46while being taken into custody by local police.
9:50(crowd shouting)
9:53Justice! Freddie Gray!
9:55Justice! Freddie Gray!
9:57Justice! Freddie Gray!
9:59Justice! Freddie Gray!
10:00The man was murdered. Clearly.
10:03♪ ♪
10:07Man: Hold the line! Hole the line!
10:09Right near here, you had the same thing happen in Baltimore.
10:13What's happening with policing in America?
10:16Well, I think we're at a... a crossroads.
10:19There is certainly a divide
10:22that exists between communities of color
10:25and law enforcement in this country.
10:28This is not just about Freddie.
10:30People tired of this shit.
10:32Treating us like animals, as they call us,
10:34thugs, as they call us.
10:36This notion of implicit bias, you know? Mmm.
10:38Seeing a young black man
10:41and just making an assumption about who he is,
10:43what he's about, how likely is he to be involved in criminal activity,
10:48simply because of the way he looks.
10:50(chanting) Smith: Now it's not just the head
10:52of the Justice Department who's calling out bias in the system.
10:55Police officers themselves are beginning to speak up.
10:59Sergeant Michael Wood is
11:00a decorated 11-year veteran
11:02of the Baltimore Police Department.
11:05When I was a sergeant, we were routinely
11:07one of the best squads in the city.
11:10But why were we the best squad in the city?
11:13We were the best squad because we had the most arrests,
11:16and I am feeding those stats
11:19with nothing but almost exclusively those black males
11:22in the 16-to-24- year-old range,
11:24and it's not necessarily because they're the ones committing the crimes.
11:28Those are the ones we're supposed to be focusing on
11:31by our entire mantra of what is effective criminal justice.
11:34(people shouting)
11:36(shouting)
11:39Wood: When we had the uprising,
11:40it's like a straw on the camel's back
11:43that makes people finally say, "Enough is enough."
11:45(shouts)
11:47Wood: Whites and blacks have been known
11:49to carry narcotics at the exact same rate.
11:51So, if we went around riling through pockets
11:53whenever we wanted in a white neighborhood,
11:54I'm sure we'd find a lot of things, but we don't do that.
11:58We only do that in these neighborhoods.
12:00Why y'all hitting me for? In a middle-to upper-class white neighborhood,
12:02if I were to go around and I were to lock up
12:05the judge's 16-year-old child for possession of marijuana,
12:08you can rest assured that I'm gonna get a phone call that something is wrong,
12:12and they're gonna have high-powered lawyers
12:14that are gonna come after the department
12:16and make sure that this thing gets buried.
12:18But if I do that to somebody in a low-income neighborhood,
12:21especially if they're black, then they just get fed
12:24into the system where they get public defenders that don't have any time,
12:27they get plea-bargained out,
12:29and they become a nice stat for the officer
12:32and for the prosecutor that was nice and easy.
12:34♪ ♪
12:36Smith: Now over the past 12 months,
12:37cell phone videos and social media
12:39have fueled nationwide outrage
12:41about racially-motivated policing.
12:43But black families in America have been living with this reality for years.
12:48I think about my son.
12:4917 years old, sweetest kid in the world. Um...
12:54Middle of the night,
12:55um, he's doing something maybe he shouldn't be doing,
12:58you know, but nothing awfully bad.
13:01Mm-hmm. There's an interaction with law enforcement.
13:04How is that going to turn out for him? Mm-hmm.
13:06And so, you know, we have the talk. You know? Mm-hmm.
13:09Don't put yourself in a position where, um,
13:11something tragic might happen.
13:14It's a conversation I had with, uh, with my father.
13:17I thought my generation might be the last one to have that kind of conversation,
13:21but, uh, you know, I felt obligated to talk to my son
13:25probably I guess three years or so ago.
13:27And he's tired of me talking to him about it now.
13:29Mmm. But I want to ingrain in him
13:31this notion of how you conduct yourself.
13:34Smith: And that's not an unfounded fear.
13:37As nearly 75% of those who end up in federal prison
13:40for drug offenses are either black or Hispanic.
13:44But getting arrested is just the first step,
13:46because once they enter the system,
13:48they face huge prison sentences, as mandated by Congress.
13:52These mandatory minimum sentences in the federal system
13:55resulted in disparities that were economic based,
14:00racially based, and led to the incarceration--
14:03the mass incarceration problem,
14:04that we are dealing with even now.
14:08Smith: So we asked Federal Judge John Gleeson,
14:10a former prosecutor famous for taking down mobster John Gotti,
14:14how mandatory minimums have driven this massive growth
14:17in America's prison population.
14:20You see all of these-- these people coming in, and you, by law...
14:25Yes. ...have to put them away for a long time.
14:28Yes. What happens because of that?
14:30Injustice happens because of that.
14:33You look at the federal drug-trafficking defendants--
14:367% of them are either a manager or a kingpin,
14:3993% are low-level folks.
14:42But the severity that Congress intended
14:44just for that top 7% is being spread across the entire docket.
14:49If you're the judge who's imposing that sentence,
14:51you feel pretty bad about it, 'cause your job is to do justice.
14:56One of the reasons why we wanted to talk to you was because
14:59we want to get to know how all of this began,
15:03how we got to where we are today.
15:05So we're in, you know, June 19th of 1986.
15:09Crack was new. Here in New York,
15:11the murder rate was four times what it is now.
15:14Mm-hmm. But there's an event that happens.
15:16There's this very popular college basketball player, Lenny Bias.
15:20He gets drafted #2 by the Celtics.
15:23They have a party on campus in College Park.
15:25He dies of an overdose.
15:26♪ ♪
15:28I can't tell you how important that event is... Mm-hmm.
15:30...because Congress responds by passing a law that
15:34a drug trafficking offense in federal court
15:36is going to be mandatory minimum 10 years,
15:39maximum life. But Congress made a mistake.
15:42They triggered those mandatory minimums
15:45by drug quantity and drug type.
15:49A hundred grams of powdered cocaine
15:52were treated the same
15:53as one gram of crack.
15:55Mm-hmm. That seems
15:56to be a little bit...
15:58not well thought out.
16:00Well, Congress blew it. You know, let's face it.
16:02Crack was an inner-city, poor neighborhood drug,
16:06so there was a racially-disparate impact
16:09of these crack prosecutions.
16:11We need to come to grips with the fact
16:15that we have an overly punitive
16:17and racially discriminatory system.
16:21How do we change? Change comes slowly.
16:27Smith: Now change has come slowly,
16:28because for more than 30 years,
16:30our system has been entirely focused
16:33on the so-called war on drugs.
16:35We're getting tough on drugs
16:37and we mean business.
16:38Police!
16:40Reagan: For those who are pushing drugs we say, "Beware."
16:42Go, go! Hey, down!
16:43George H.W. Bush: If you sell drugs, you will be caught,
16:45and when you're caught,
16:47you will be prosecuted,
16:49and once you're convicted,
16:51you will do time.
16:52To go back, this was all based on the war on drugs.
16:56Was the war on drugs successful?
16:58Politicians got involved
17:01in trying to decide criminal justice policy,
17:05statutes were passed, policies were put in place...
17:08...that had little or nothing to do with crime reduction
17:11but had a whole lot to do with politics.
17:14(applause)
17:16Last year we passed a very tough crime bill.
17:19Longer sentences, three strikes and you're out.
17:22More prisons, more prevention, 100,000 more police.
17:27Go, go, go, go, go, go, go!
17:29Holder: We heard slogans about being tough on crime
17:32without any kind of study or anticipation
17:35about where these policies might lead us.
17:38♪ ♪
17:43Smith: And Attorney General Holder isn't the only one admitting
17:46that the war on drugs hasn't worked.
17:49Did I win the war on drugs? No.
17:51In fact, I don't even think I made a dent
17:53in the war on drugs.
17:55Smith: John Urquhart is the sheriff of King County, Washington,
17:58where he's been arresting drug offenders for nearly 30 years.
18:02Urquhart: You can arrest people all you want,
18:04you can put people in jail all you want,
18:07you can confiscate all those drugs,
18:09but there's still gonna be more.
18:11We've incarcerated a whole generation of people,
18:14mostly African-Americans, and we haven't solved the drug problem,
18:17like we've purported to do.
18:18Yes, we've put a lot of people in prison,
18:20but most of the people that we put in prison,
18:23or at least a good number of them,
18:24were put there for nonviolent drug arrests.
18:27♪ ♪
18:29Smith: Now these nonviolent drug offenders
18:30are now going to federal prison more often
18:33and for longer periods of time than ever before.
18:36And as our prison population has swelled to record levels,
18:40the same politicians who pushed for harsher penalties
18:43are now starting to realize that they went too far.
18:46We had a lot of people locked up
18:48who were minor actors for way too long.
18:52And that was overdone. We were wrong about that.
18:55I signed a bill that made the problem worse,
18:59and I want to admit it.
19:01Holder: I think there are fundamental things that are broken.
19:04We can fix it, but we have to acknowledge--
19:07and this is the first step-- that the system is broken.
19:12Barack Obama: Our criminal justice system
19:14isn't as smart as it should be.
19:17It's not keeping us
19:18as safe as it should be.
19:20It is not as fair as it should be.
19:24You're the first African-American attorney general.
19:26He's the first African-American president.
19:28There's a personal... empathy there
19:32that maybe there hadn't been before.
19:34I bet that's probably true,
19:36given the experiences that African-Americans have had in this country.
19:41You know, we know people.
19:43I'm sure he knows people, I know people who, um...
19:46(chuckles) who are,
19:48I was raised with back in Queens, in New York City,
19:51who got involved in drugs,
19:53who committed some crime,
19:56and whose lives are fundamentally different.
19:58I might have played Little League with them.
20:00Now I'm the attorney general of the United States,
20:03and they're barely scraping by.
20:05And that's why I think the president's approach
20:06you know, My Brother's Keeper--
20:08this whole focus on giving kids, young men of color that second chance--
20:12it's something that he has been concerned about
20:14since he was in the State Legislature in Illinois.
20:18It's certainly something that has been of concern to me throughout my public life.
20:22(applause) Mass incarceration makes our country worse off,
20:27and we need to do something about it.
20:33So on Thursday, I will be the first sitting president to visit a federal prison.
20:37(cheering)
20:40♪ ♪
20:45Smith: Now our previous presidents have actually tried to prosecute
20:47their way out of the drug problem.
20:49President Obama is trying something radically different.
20:52♪ ♪
20:56In July of this year, the President traveled
20:58to a federal prison in Oklahoma,
21:00and he invited VICE to join him.
21:10This is the first time in history a sitting president has visited a federal prison.
21:15Why? Why now? Why today? Why is it important?
21:18Over the last 20 years, we've seen...
21:21a shift in incarceration rates that is really unprecedented.
21:27We've seen a doubling of the prison population.
21:31A large percentage of that is for nonviolent drug offenses.
21:36Federal drug offenders have increased 21 times since the '80s.
21:42There's more federal incarcerations for drug offenses
21:45than there are for homicide, aggravated assault,
21:48kidnapping, robbery, weapons, immigration, arson,
21:51sex offenses, extortion, bribery, et cetera, combined.
21:56How did that happen?
21:57I think there was a lot of fear.
21:59♪ ♪
22:00The war on drugs, the crack epidemic--
22:03it became, I think, a bipartisan cause
22:06to get tough on crime. Right.
22:08We need more prisons,
22:10more jails, more courts,
22:11more prosecutors.
22:14Incarceration became an easy, simple, uh,
22:17recipe in the minds of a lot of folks.
22:20Newscaster: With Election Day approaching
22:22and polls showing that drug abuse
22:23is the public's number one concern,
22:26today's voting became a contest
22:28to determine who could be toughest
22:30on drug traffickers.
22:32Nobody ever lost an election
22:34'cause they were too tough on crime.
22:36Sure. And so, nobody stepped back and asked,
22:40"Is it really appropriate for...
22:43"somebody who's engaged in a serious but nonviolent drug offense
22:48"to get more time than a rapist?"
22:51What's been interesting is
22:53that violent crime rates
22:55have consistently declined
22:56and the costs of incarceration
22:59obviously have skyrocketed.
23:02The stats are staggering.
23:04One in 17 white men will go to prison in their lifetime,
23:08one in three black men.
23:12Is the criminal justice system in America racist?
23:17I think the criminal justice system interacts with...
23:22broader patterns of society
23:25in a way that results
23:27in... injustice and unfairness.
23:32The system, every study has shown,
23:35is biased somewhere, institutionally,
23:39in such a way where an African-American youth
23:44is more likely to be suspended from school
23:46than a white youth for engaging in the same disruptive behavior,
23:51more likely to be arrested,
23:53more likely to be charged,
23:55more likely to be prosecuted aggressively,
23:58more likely to get a stiffer sentence.
24:01The system tilts in a direction that is unjust,
24:07and particularly when you think about nonviolent drug offenses.
24:11This is an area where the statistics are so skewed,
24:16you have to question, uh,
24:19whether we have become numb
24:23to the costs that it has on these communities,
24:27whether we think it's somehow normal
24:30for black youth or Latino youth
24:33to be going through the system in this way.
24:35It's not normal, and it has to be addressed from soup to nuts
24:39in order for us to get some better outcomes.
24:42You've done drugs... Uh-huh.
24:43...and you said, "Hey look,
24:45"I've made bad decisions when I was young.
24:48"Pretty much everybody does.
24:50"But you know, I was in a community, or I had the ability
24:55"to not have as harsh ramifications for my mistakes."
25:00Right. Is one of the reasons why you're here today
25:02because, perhaps, you're the first president
25:05to feel empathy for the people that are here?
25:08Well, I'd like to think other presidents feel the same way,
25:11but I can tell you I feel it... acutely.
25:14When I moved to Chicago and I started doing
25:17community organizing in low-income neighborhoods,
25:19one of the most powerful thoughts that I had
25:23was driving by street corners, uh,
25:27with kids who at that stage-- I was in my early 20s--
25:31really weren't that far off from where I was,
25:35and knowing that the mistakes they made
25:39would land them, potentially, in prison...
25:43in ways that just were not true for me, growing up in Hawaii.
25:46The notion that you or I...
25:50couldn't have easily been drawn into that,
25:53that somehow we wouldn't have fallen prey
25:56to the temptations of the streets--
25:57that doesn't feel right to me. That doesn't feel true.
26:02Smith: The president didn't just want to talk about the problem, though.
26:05He wanted to speak directly to the people
26:07who were doing time as a result of it.
26:10So he asked to sit down with six inmates
26:12for an unprecedented, unfiltered conversation.
26:17How y'all doing? How ya doing, sir?
26:19All right. What's going on? What's your name, man?
26:24Eduardo DeLeon. Good to see ya. Nice to meet you.
26:26Good to see you, sir. Timothy Jordan.
26:28Timothy, good to see you. It's a pleasure, sir.
26:30Tyrone Ramsey. Tyrone, good to see you, man.
26:31Thank you, sir. Arnell Stewart.
26:33Arnell, so nice to see you. Jesus Chavez.
26:35Jesus, good to see you. David Shaw.
26:38David, very nice to meet you.
26:39Everybody have a seat.
26:42Well, gentlemen, thank you for taking the time to meet with me.
26:44I know this is the first time this has ever happened.
26:46Men: Yes, sir. I know some folks have been talking to you
26:50about the reason for my visit.
26:52One of my concerns has been how...
26:57we're dealing with nonviolent drug offenses--
26:59the levels of incarceration have gone way up,
27:02the length of sentences increased significantly--
27:05whether the sentencing and the price
27:07that not only individuals are paying,
27:10but their families for the mistakes they make, are proportional,
27:14and whether we need to make some changes.
27:17And I'm also interested in figuring out,
27:20as people get released, whether they've got the tools
27:24they need to be able to stay on the straight and narrow
27:27or whether the temptation is to go back on the streets
27:30and then end up back here.
27:31So, my hope was to just have folks share their stories.
27:35I'd be real relaxed about this thing and just have a conversation.
27:38Pretend the cameras aren't here.
27:40How about you?
27:42I'm 24. I got incarcerated at 20 on a 64-month sentence.
27:47I had A-B honor roll during high school.
27:49Once I stopped focusing on my education and everything
27:52is when I started experimenting with drugs,
27:54hanging around with the wrong crowd.
27:56♪ ♪
27:59You were dealing, uh, Ecstasy?
28:01Yes, sir. I liked it because I was meeting a bunch of people--
28:05you know, popularity, money, women, having fun.
28:08But, I mean in the long run, just the simple fact
28:12that you've been incarcerated, people are quick to judge.
28:16Right. You know, I've tried to reach out to people
28:18that I've went to high school with and soon as I let 'em know,
28:21"Oh, I'm in prison for selling pills,"
28:23they're quick to cut you off. Right.
28:26My little brother tells me when I got sentenced,
28:29he thought what I was doing was cool,
28:31which already shows that young people out there
28:34have the wrong mentality.
28:35Nothing that's going on that we're doing is--
28:38there's nothing cool about it, about being in here.
28:41They don't realize everything that we lose.
28:44Is your little brother listening to you?
28:46I mean, I'd like to say he is,
28:49but he's at that age where we all think we know everything.
28:52(men chuckling) I remember that. Yeah.
29:02Sal Vega: I think I was 10 years old
29:03when he first got arrested,
29:06and now I'm 17 years old,
29:07and he's still doing what he's doing, so...
29:09I mean, he's not, like, a criminal.
29:12♪ ♪ He just had a problem.
29:15He cared more about being around his friends rather than his family,
29:18and, I mean, he's not a mean person.
29:24And when my brother tells me prison,
29:26"This isn't a place for you to be here.
29:28"This isn't a place for me to be.
29:29"It's hard here. I mean, it's no joke."
29:38Veronica Vega: We moved up here,
29:40hoping to have a better life for him,
29:43make plans like just anybody else for their kids
29:46as far as going to college and preparing 'em,
29:49and... I don't know. What can I say?
29:51♪ ♪
29:56When it came to me dealing with my son
29:58and him being on drugs,
30:02it was a totally different person.
30:04It's like a battle you can't win.
30:10Sal: Everyone always thought that he was gonna go on
30:12and do good things and...
30:14knowing that he's in there now, it hurts.
30:18It hurts the family really bad,
30:20and he's a big piece of the family that--
30:23that now that he's missing, it really left a gap in our family.
30:27♪ ♪
30:32The fact that we couldn't get close to him...
30:35because for so long we have been close to him,
30:37but through a phone and through glass...
30:42(voice breaking) I haven't hugged my son for so many years.
30:47I hunger for that day.
30:49♪ ♪
30:58When you think about your sentences, um,
31:00I know this is something Shane and I were talking about--
31:03how many of you pled out?
31:06Basically everybody, yeah.
31:09Smith: Now the vast majority of federal drug cases
31:11result in plea bargain deals,
31:13which are a way to avoid the huge sentences
31:15that the system might impose if the defendant
31:18actually took his case to trial and lost.
31:21Now in a plea deal, the defendant says he's guilty
31:24in exchange for a reduced sentence,
31:26no matter how weak the case against him might be.
31:28Didn't they charge you for a crime
31:31that you were supposed to have committed while you were in prison?
31:33Yes. I kind of feel that
31:35I probably could've beat the charge,
31:38but due to my criminal background,
31:40I was more scared of the time I was gonna get.
31:42And you were telling me about the same thing,
31:44that you pled down for the...
31:46Tyrone: I pled down to 15 years. I was--
31:48My lawyer told me I would get life if I take it to trial.
31:52Smith: And Judge Gleeson explained to us
31:54how these mandatory minimum sentences
31:57have driven plea rates higher and higher.
31:59One way in which prosecutors use the powers that Congress gave 'em
32:03is to say to someone, "The way you're going to get out from under
32:06"an unjust mandatory sentence is you plead guilty."
32:10The federal criminal trial is kind of disappearing.
32:14Before we had this regime, the guilty plea rate used to be 80%.
32:18We now have a federal guilty plea rate of over 97%.
32:23Fewer of 3% of the cases go to trial.
32:25Prosecutors are determining how much time
32:28they're gonna get before it-- it goes to trial.
32:31You're right. Sometimes they use their power
32:33to compel an outcome that's unjust.
32:37Smith: This can happen even if the defendant isn't actually caught dealing drugs.
32:42Through what's called a conspiracy charge,
32:45he can be convicted for merely agreeing
32:47to commit a crime with another person.
32:49David Shaw pled guilty to conspiracy to distribute crack.
32:54Now he contends that he was charged on the basis
32:57of allegations from people he didn't even know,
32:59on a date when he says he was already incarcerated for a separate offense.
33:04I was indicted on a 280 gram conspiracy
33:07to distribute a controlled substance, crack cocaine.
33:10And they got three people that's willing to testify against you,
33:13that's saying that you done deal with them prior in the past of selling drugs.
33:17So there were federal inmates... Yes.
33:19...who basically said that you had been with them and...
33:23They said I sold them a certain amount of drugs--
33:26sold so many times on this day.
33:28What's weird about that, too, at the time they said I was selling them drugs,
33:31I was incarcerated at that time that they said I was selling them drugs.
33:33If you're incarcerated when you're supposed to be selling drugs,
33:36why would you plead out? That doesn't seem to make any sense at all.
33:39The reason why I pleaded out is because it's hard to beat.
33:43I done seen plenty of people that took it to trial
33:45and end up with a whole lot of time.
33:48When you go to court you know, and they bring these people back,
33:50they got people you don't even know that's testifying against you.
33:53I had people in my cases that I didn't even--
33:54I had never had met before. I don't even know their name.
33:57Smith: However, under conspiracy laws,
33:59that's actually allowed, because defendants can be found responsible
34:03for any earlier discussions about selling drugs.
34:07They call it "ghost dope." Mm-hmm.
34:08You talking 280 grams, but you don't have a gram of dope,
34:13you don't have a phone-- a phone or anything on a phone talking about drugs,
34:16no wire tap, none of that, but you still convict me off of he-say-she-say.
34:20♪ ♪
34:23You were saying, "Well, it's three against one.
34:25"I don't even know who these guys are.
34:27"They're gonna say I did it because they get reduced sentences."
34:30Mm-hmm. And then he gets 30 years.
34:32You were risking the possibility of--
34:34Yeah, I was risking the possibility and I-- you know...
34:3630 years would be a long time.
34:37♪ ♪
34:43Chavez: I think most of us would agree that we pleaded guilty,
34:47it's not really much of an option, especially when they're charging you
34:50with dope that you don't got-- quote, unquote, "ghost dope."
34:55The conviction rate's already 90-something percent.
34:57You see people getting 10, 20, life sentences,
35:01and yet you see sex offenders walking around with five-year sentences.
35:06Well, we've all agreed that the drugs are doing damage in our community
35:12and real damage to our kids. Men: Right, right.
35:14It makes sense for society to try and protect kids from drugs.
35:19On the other hand, Jesus, I think your point
35:23about just-- it being proportional is important...
35:25Yeah. ...and keeping perspective.
35:27I mean, I was-- I was facing 20 years.
35:30Five years when they offered, 64 months--
35:33I mean, that's a lot better than risking getting 20 years.
35:35♪ ♪
35:38Smith: And for those who don't plead guilty,
35:40the consequences can be devastating.
35:44For example, Stanley Washington was charged
35:46with intent to distribute crack cocaine.
35:49He took his case to trial and he lost,
35:52and as a result, was sentenced to life
35:54without parole in Alabama State prison.
35:57Oh wow. Look at that.
36:01Ah! Man.
36:04I had a little one-man car wash
36:06in the bottom of that garage right there. I would wash cars.
36:09That was my, uh, work at the time.
36:14But actually, I, uh,
36:16I dibbled and dabbled in drugs.
36:20One day I was just here, and, uh, I was up in the front,
36:23there was all kinds of activities going around in the back.
36:25And I hear a guy say, "Stanley, Stanley, get down. Get down."
36:31So I turn around, and there is police coming
36:33from around the other building with guns pointed at me.
36:36Of course I had a pistol on me, which I tried to throw away.
36:41(chuckles) I paid for it, but I did do it.
36:44But I never thought they would put me away for the rest of my life.
36:48♪ ♪
36:53They actually thought I was dead.
36:56A few times, I thought I was dead.
37:00My case is no different than a death row person,
37:03because we're both gonna die on state property.
37:05I have life without parole. They have the death sentence.
37:08There's no difference.
37:09So I came up with the idea to write these lawyers,
37:12and I wrote letters out to all of these lawyers,
37:14and one of them went out to Bryan Stevenson
37:15at the Equal Justice Initiative.
37:17And he just sent a message to me, "I'm going to help you."
37:20Two years later, I was back in court.
37:23Bryan Stevenson made me a free man.
37:25I missed a whole lot.
37:29♪ ♪ (distant train whistles)
37:33Bryan Stevenson: Stanly Washington was somebody who was given
37:36a mandatory life- without-patrol sentence
37:38even though he'd never committed a violent crime.
37:40He was absolutely somebody who had a lot to give,
37:42but he ended up in the drug trade.
37:45So we went to court and that's when we were
37:47able to get Mr. Washington's sentence reduced,
37:50and then get him paroled.
37:52♪ ♪
37:54The prison population of the United States was flat most of the 20th century.
37:58The last 50 years was this era shaped
38:02by a commitment to mass incarceration and excessive punishment.
38:05The prison population goes from 300,000 to 2.3 million,
38:08and this has really redefined the kind of country we are,
38:12the kind of place we inhabit.
38:14I think the greatest tragedy of the era of mass incarceration
38:18has been its impact on people of color.
38:20The Bureau of Justice reported at the beginning of the century
38:22that it expects one in three black male babies born in this country
38:27to end up in jail or prison at some point during their lifetimes.
38:30That's a pretty shocking number.
38:33The bottom line is that if you are poor,
38:34and particularly if you're a person of color,
38:36you're presumed guilty.
38:37There is a presumption of guilt
38:39that follows you into the courtroom.
38:41Once you're arrested, that's what people think.
38:44And it then increases your burden to prove your innocence,
38:49to prove that you shouldn't receive this kind of extreme sentence.
38:52It has created despair in communities of color.
38:55I sit down with 13- and 14-year-old kids
38:57who often tell me they don't expect to be free or alive by the time they're 21.
39:02♪ ♪
39:10Yeah, I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was young...
39:13but-- I've said this before-- I was just in an environment
39:17where you could afford to make some mistakes.
39:20I had more of a margin of error that a lot of kids do,
39:24particularly if they're in a low-income community
39:27that's surrounded by a lot of drug activity,
39:31criminal activity.
39:33Kids adapt to what they see. (men agreeing)
39:36The majority of my family members were dealing drugs,
39:39so I was kind of, like, grew up around it.
39:42And as I got older, I decided that I wanted
39:45to be a part of that. Right.
39:47Smith: Tyrone Ramsey is serving 15 years
39:50on a nonviolent drug charge.
39:52But I appreciate the time that I am here,
39:54because I'm taking advantage of it.
39:55I'm in the college program. We graduate in May of 2016.
39:59So, I'm taking advantage of this time to better myself as a man for my kids,
40:04so when I get out I can be a better person to them.
40:07They can look up to me like, "My dad has really changed his life,
40:10"turned his life around."
40:12That'll be a powerful message for them. Yes, sir.
40:17Smith: Making this documentary,
40:19I spent a lot of time with offenders
40:21at different prison facilities around the country,
40:24and one thing that nearly every one of them said to me,
40:27was just how painful it was to be absent from the lives of their families.
40:32There are over 1.1 million fathers behind bars in America.
40:38At a federal prison in Memphis, I talked with the inmates about this issue.
40:42If you look at the statistics,
40:44it's a lot of fatherless homes,
40:46so if you don't have a person teaching you
40:48the tools that you need to grow up to be a man,
40:51then quite naturally we're gonna be
40:54taken by the gangs, the drug culture.
40:56I look at my life, my mother, God bless her man,
40:59she was one of the best mothers in the world, I believe.
41:03She worked hard everyday. She went to church every Sunday,
41:06but when I walked out my front door,
41:08because my father wasn't there,
41:10I'd see the males-- You know what I'm saying?
41:12--shooting dice, drinking alcohol,
41:14smoking weed, and that's what I gravitated to.
41:17Yup.
41:19Man: You have to have some type of father figure
41:21to be able teach those young boys
41:23before they make those decisions to get in the gangs.
41:26So if you take a father figure out of a community,
41:28out of a family, that kid then has
41:31a greater chance of going to prison. Yeah, right.
41:33Then there's-- The whole circle continues.
41:35It deteriorates-- It deteriorates the family.
41:37Hey, I'm-- I'm gonna speak on that.
41:40This is really kind of a touchy subject for me.
41:42My father was in prison. He had life in the feds.
41:46Also, I'm in prison, then on top of that,
41:51I have sons. Two of my sons went to prison.
41:55So they followed the same footprints as I did with my father.
41:59Nobody was there for them. With that being said,
42:02we need to be there for our family.
42:04We need to be there for our sons.
42:06But you got to start now. The change has got to start now.
42:09Its got to start right here in prison,
42:10and that's the only way we're going to be able to change our communities.
42:13Do you have a life sentence? Yes, I got a life sentence.
42:15But even though I'm in prison,
42:18my fathering obligations don't stop.
42:20You know what I am saying? Walls can't stop me
42:23from having to be a father for my kids.
42:24Even though I talk to 'em on the phone, write them letters,
42:27or I'm going to visit the few minutes I get to see 'em,
42:29I still got to be a father to 'em.
42:31I got to help them, 'cause if I get it wrong,
42:34then what's their future but where I'm at right now?
42:38♪ ♪
42:44I didn't know my dad.
42:46And... too many of our young people don't know their dads.
42:50And obviously... for them to be able to see you
42:55in a strong positive way, you know, that's gonna have an impact.
43:01I met my dad for one month when I was 10 years old,
43:03that was the only time I met him my whole life.
43:06Even that little one month ended up having an impact on me,
43:08so you know kids are paying attention even when they act like they're not.
43:12That's right. I have a teenage boy that is out there.
43:15I have a 15-year-old, 17-year-old,
43:17and I got a 10-year-old, and an eight-year-old that's coming up.
43:20My main thing is that they need to be busy,
43:23because when I was growing up,
43:25I didn't have nothing to do at all.
43:26Where'd you grow up? I grew up in Kansas City, Kansas.
43:28♪ ♪
43:33Simone Dickson: Okay, we on speaker.
43:35(Tyrone speaks on phone)
43:36Hey. (Tyrone speaking)
43:39Yes, the same thing here.
43:42'Cause, you know, like we always talk about,
43:44you know, the kids need their dad,
43:46especially the boys. Yeah.
43:48They most definitely neededou here.
43:50It's like my family's been torn for the last seven years.
43:54(Tyrone speaks)
43:58Simone: Yeah.
44:01Exactly. (female voice speaks)
44:04(beeps) (Tyrone speaks)
44:06Okay.
44:09All right.
44:11We love you, too.
44:14(beeps) Boy: Yes!
44:18Simone: It's very hard raising two sons.
44:22They need a father.
44:23I don't want them to be involved in street activity.
44:28I don't want them to be involved in any kind of gang activity.
44:3315 years is a long time.
44:38The fact that he is in jail
44:40and I can't, like, see him
44:43anytime I want... it's sad.
44:52It breaks my little heart.
44:54It shatters me and it shatters my brothers,
44:56and it shatters my mom most definitely,
44:58'cause she's doing this all on her own.
45:00If Tyrone was here, Tivonte would be a better person,
45:04'cause when Tyrone was here,
45:06I didn't fight with him at all.
45:07I think it hurt him the most,
45:09'cause he had a really close relationship with his dad.
45:13When Tyrone went away, that broke him more than it broke me.
45:18It did. He has a heart deep, deep, deep inside,
45:22and I think Tyrone going to jail covered all of that up,
45:26so he wants to be all hard and, you know, careless.
45:30So, yeah, I do feel like he will go to jail
45:34for something really stupid, but I hope not.
45:37♪ ♪
45:45We can't raise kids in an environment
45:47where this is all they know and they're surrounded by it,
45:50and then think that somehow they are gonna be immune
45:54from the influences that they're seeing every day.
45:57Man: Right. Part of the concern that I've had is
46:00is that as a society we seem to be okay
46:04with certain communities just being locked in this cycle
46:07where kids are being raised around drug crime.
46:11They naturally gravitate towards the drug crime.
46:14They then get involved in the criminal justice system,
46:17and it just churns, and everybody thinks that's normal.
46:22It's what you're saying about your brother. Just like,
46:24"Oh well, you're my big bro." He's going to prison.
46:28Then he starts thinking, "I'll probably end up
46:30"at some point going to prison and that'll be okay."
46:33Your dad was in prison. He died in prison.
46:35Died in prison. Now your kids start looking,
46:38you're in prison, and they start thinking that's normal.
46:41Right. And we can't have our kids thinking that way.
46:44And now part of it is everybody here has got
46:46to take responsibility to try and break that cycle.
46:48Men: That's right.
46:49For me, I got involved with selling drugs,
46:54using drugs, smoking marijuana at 14,
46:57and quite frankly, before drugs I was a nerd--
47:00book smart, straight "A" student, honor roll.
47:04Smith: Arnell Stewart is a 27-year-old from Denver, Colorado.
47:08He's serving five and a half years
47:10for conspiracy to distribute crack.
47:12When you were growing up, was selling drugs prevalent
47:15or no, or how did it work?
47:17I grew up, through school, the DARE program,
47:20dare to say no to drugs.
47:21My father, he would work sometimes two, maybe three jobs,
47:25and I also was disconnected from my mother for 12 years.
47:29My mother was using drugs prior to my birth,
47:32and so when I was reunited with her,
47:34the drugs were the commonality.
47:37And now you're in a drug program here. Absolutely.
47:40How do you think that program is working. Is it helping you or...?
47:43Arnell: It's taught me to recognize and accept the effect
47:46that my actions and my behaviors have
47:48on my community and those around me.
47:51Mr. Stewart.
47:53Good morning, community. I'm Mr. Stewart.
47:54Men: Good morning, Mr. Stewart.
47:56Arnell: Before my incarceration, I struggled with grandiosity a lot.
48:01Due to my criminal lifestyle
48:02and some of the successes that I had educational wise,
48:06I felt like I couldn't take advice from others,
48:08because they weren't as successful as me.
48:10It hindered many of my positive relationships.
48:13I ran off individuals who wanted to help me,
48:17individuals who could benefit me,
48:19individuals who I need right now at this time.
48:22Recently here, I've been able to kind of reevaluate myself,
48:26I've examined some of my thinking patterns,
48:28and I wanted to be a part of something,
48:30and there was nothing available. Mm-hmm.
48:33How much of that thinking relates to programs here in the prison?
48:36How much of it is just you being in your cell
48:38and kind of having to think through where you are?
48:41Well, I think the core of it
48:42is the program in here at the institution.
48:47I found myself in prison.
48:49Yeah, I found myself in prison.
48:52Is there anything that, uh,
48:56you think about or worry about as you leave and readjust?
49:02Because one of the things that we're always concerned about is...
49:05The recidivism rate is, I'll be honest with you, it's pretty high.
49:0850% of folks who get released, they're back in a year later.
49:13So part of what we're really spending some time doing is thinking about,
49:18"How do we make that transition effective?"
49:20You guys have a good mindset now,
49:22but then you get back out, you go on a couple of job interviews,
49:25it gets discouraging...
49:28your old friends call you back...
49:30"Yo, what's up? Why don't you come on over?"
49:33Right? Absolutely.
49:34And it's easy to fall back into the old patterns.
49:37How are you guys thinking about that? How are you processing that?
49:40Smith: Timothy Jordan is currently serving
49:42an 11-year sentence for a nonviolent drug crime.
49:44I've worked at UNICOR for five and a half years
49:47and acquired real-world job skills through UNICOR.
49:52I participated in a millwright apprenticeship program there,
49:55which is an 8,000-hour on-the-job training.
49:57♪ ♪ Smith: FCI El Reno allows
50:01inmates to work at UNICOR,
50:02which is a job training program that teaches workplace skills--
50:05a benefit that, unfortunately,
50:07most inmates in the US can't access.
50:12Smith: Yeah.
50:22(Allan Vernon speaks)
50:24(Shane speaks)
50:38(Marcell Small speaking)
50:41Smith: Right.
50:50Right.
50:56Right.
51:00♪ ♪
51:08Smith: But even with some basic job training,
51:10re-entry into society can prove to be very difficult.
51:14Delmar Smith, for example, was released last year
51:17after more than two years in prison on a nonviolent offense.
51:20Today he lives in a halfway house
51:22that provides him with shelter, food,
51:24and the use of a car to look for a job.
51:26But finding one has been a struggle.
51:29Delmar Smith: Upon release I was nervous.
51:32I had never faced a situation like this.
51:34I'm walking into the unknown,
51:35being homeless, unemployed,
51:37and the state only giving you $40 to walk out their gates with.
51:42The $40 that they give you to leave with
51:46ain't enough money for nothing.
51:48The system is definitely designed for you to fail.
51:51♪ ♪
51:55I just keep on putting in applications.
51:57I try to get in at least five a day.
52:00How many calls have I got back,
52:03interviews have I got back?
52:06Zero.
52:12They don't wanna give you a second chance.
52:16People just see you as an ex-offender.
52:18They don't look at you as a person.
52:20They look at your paper and say,
52:21"Okay, well, you've been to prison.
52:23"You're no good."
52:26Smith: Unable to find work, it's no surprise
52:28that many former convicts turn back to crime.
52:30Pennsylvania Secretary of Corrections John Wetzel
52:34told us that the rate of recidivism,
52:36or ex-offenders returning to prison,
52:38is a crippling problem across the system.
52:41The national average of recidivism is 50%.
52:44So we're spending $80 billion
52:46and failing half the time, right?
52:49That doesn't make any sense.
52:50It's called corrections for a reason.
52:52We're invested in trying to get folks on the right path
52:55and frankly, if we're being honest,
52:57I'm not sure that we've always achieved that goal.
53:00So we really need to be deliberate about the conditions
53:03under which we release people.
53:04We have to provide marketable job skills.
53:07We have to partner with employers
53:08to actually give people a shot.
53:1050% of the people who walk in here
53:12don't even have a high school degree.
53:14You don't have a high school diploma
53:16and you have a criminal record?
53:17I'm not sure what you're gonna be successful at.
53:20Your prospects are hit the lottery
53:22or likely become re-incarcerated.
53:24♪ ♪
53:30This actually is something that we're trying to spend some time thinking about,
53:33is, first of all, trying to get employers...
53:38to not ask on job applications
53:42whether somebody's got a criminal record. Right.
53:45Look, they're gonna take a criminal record into account,
53:47but if they have a chance to at least meet you,
53:52you're able to talk to 'em about your life,
53:54what you've done, then maybe they give you a chance.
53:57If they see it on an application,
53:59they may not even call you back, right? Right.
54:03And so, what we know is, is that if the disclosure
54:06of a criminal record happens later in a job process,
54:10a job application process,
54:12you're more likely to be hired.
54:14Say, I wanna open my own business,
54:16will I be able to do that?
54:17- Right. - Will my background stop me from doing that?
54:19Right. Will I be able to open my barber shop?
54:23You know, so that's-- You cutting hair?
54:25Yes, sir. Yeah?
54:26Yeah. I didn't do this, but... (laughter)
54:30No. That's a pretty good line. That's pretty good line.
54:32The, uh... There are federal programs where we're saying,
54:36for example, on small businesses--
54:38a lot of times the hardest thing about starting a small business
54:40is just getting the finance, the money initially,
54:42so if it's a barbershop, how do you get
54:45enough money to get the chairs in and... Right.
54:49You gotta have a TV. TV?
54:51(chuckling) I kinda wanna have a little diner on the side.
54:56Well, that's-- see-- All right, we're gonna focus
54:59on the barbershop first. You'll get the diner later.
55:01But... what we're trying to do is
55:05to say just because somebody is an ex-offender
55:09does not automatically prevent them from getting financing.
55:12That's right. The good news is, is that
55:15politicians start realizing that the sentencing issues
55:20have to be dealt with in a smarter way.
55:25I can't guarantee that something is gonna happen,
55:27but I'm seeing more interest in reform
55:31of the sentencing process
55:34than I've seen since I've been in public office,
55:36you know, and that's good news.
55:38♪ ♪
55:40Smith: Today in Washington, a Congress notorious
55:42for being polarized and dysfunctional
55:44is actually starting to come together
55:46to attack this problem,
55:48beginning with a bill called the Smarter Sentencing Act.
55:51Now while it doesn't fully erase the disparity
55:54between crack and powder cocaine,
55:55which is now 18 to 1, the bill would allow felons
55:59convicted under the old 100 to 1 policy
56:01to appeal their sentences in court.
56:04This is as diverse and bipartisan
56:07an array of members of Congress
56:08as you will see on any topic.
56:11And yet we are all unified
56:13in saying common sense reforms...
56:17need to be enacted to our criminal justice system.
56:19I want people to get back to work,
56:21I want them to get back to voting,
56:22and all of these things I think are wrapped up
56:25in stuff that really both parties can believe in,
56:28and at least some people from both parties do believe in.
56:31Excessive mandatory minimums
56:33do not make us safer.
56:36The last 30 years have shown us
56:38that they're applied unevenly
56:41and that they leave a gaping hole
56:44in the communities they impact most heavily.
56:46Smith: Now one of the Senate's most active proponents
56:49for changing the system is Mike Lee,
56:51a conservative Republican from Utah.
56:54What's the consensus within the Republican party
56:57about reforming the criminal justice system in America?
57:01I think everyone can acknowledge
57:03that cost savings are always good to find,
57:06but the far more important cost to consider
57:08is not the economic one, it's the human cost.
57:11The cost of having so many fathers and sons
57:15and uncles and nephews locked up behind bars for years,
57:18sometimes extraordinarily long prison sentences
57:21that don't seem to match the crime.
57:25Smith: New Jersey Senator Cory Booker
57:27is working across the aisle with Senator Lee
57:29to try and reform our sentencing laws.
57:32I joined the Senate at a time
57:33that Senator Rand Paul, Senator Leahy,
57:35Senator Durbin, Senator Mike Lee
57:36were doing a lot of things to try to change this system,
57:38and I'm happy to join.
57:39We have more African-Americans in this country
57:41under criminal supervision right now than all of the slaves in 1850.
57:45These are urgencies that, no matter what your party,
57:48should weigh upon your consciousness.
57:49They belie the truth of who we are
57:52as Americans, and we need to address them.
57:54Smith: Now Senator Booker brings
57:55a unique perspective to the fight.
57:57He's the former mayor of Newark,
57:59a city that has struggled with crime
58:00and incarceration for decades.
58:03♪ ♪
58:05This is where you used to live here when you were Mayor?
58:07Yeah. And why choose to live here?
58:09Booker: So, we looked at the sectors in the city.
58:11This was one with the most shootings,
58:12so I wanted to move into an area
58:14where we could make a difference.
58:16And I knew that as a mayor, you're gonna have 24-hour security,
58:19so why not have it in a community that really needs it.
58:21I feel so connected to this city because Newark is showing
58:24the best of what America can be.
58:25That grit, that strength that we respect about our country,
58:28but it also shows the darker parts
58:30of our nation that we don't want to talk about...
58:31Sure. ...where we've gone way off the rails,
58:33that's unnecessary, hyper-expensive,
58:36and violates our values.
58:39So, you have Republicans, you have Democrats,
58:43you have the president, you have general consensus
58:45that reform is needed. What's holding it up?
58:49So, you know I'm new in the Senate...
58:51Right. ...and when I was mayor of the city,
58:53when we would see things like, you know,
58:54we wanted to build this park right here...
58:57that kids are playing in. And we built a park. Right. Right.
58:59And the challenge with the federal legislature is it moves a lot slower.
59:02We need a far more comprehensive focus,
59:05and we need to move with a sense of urgency.
59:08And we have to think about how many guys,
59:10who are coming back from prison, come back with no hope,
59:12believe that there's no opportunities.
59:14I think it was James Baldwin who said, "There's nothing more dangerous
59:16"than a man that believes he has no hope."
59:18And we see this-- almost two-thirds of the people coming out
59:21end up going right back down that slope.
59:23Smith: One business owner we met
59:25told us how hard it's been for him to stay clear
59:27of the legal system, even after serving his time.
59:31Booker: So, most of the fellas you know
59:32got involved in really low-level stuff, right?
59:35And they get that criminal conviction,
59:37and then it's a trap, right? How hard is it to get out?
59:39What are you talking about? We're still trying to get out, man.
59:41I still got ties to the system.
59:44I'm still paying. For any crime you do,
59:46you're gonna pay a stipend. You know what I'm saying?
59:49You come out of jail, you paid your debt,
59:51but you really-- you haven't pay your debt,
59:53'cause you got thousands of dollars worth of fines.
59:55- Exactly. - What happens if you don't pay the fines down?
59:57We get relocked up.
59:59Smith: Now these fees may vary,
1:00:01but almost every state requires offenders
1:00:03to pay for part of the legal process,
1:00:05like room and board or probation costs.
1:00:07Some states even make you pay for your public defender.
1:00:12Randell was living in Philadelphia
1:00:14when he was picked up for dealing drugs.
1:00:16And after serving his time, he couldn't find a job
1:00:18and fell badly behind on his fees.
1:00:21I moved back to Philadelphia.
1:00:23It's like hard getting jobs and stuff down there,
1:00:26so I just went back to what I was doing.
1:00:28I was selling drugs, and I got put up.
1:00:31You go to see your parole officer
1:00:33and you don't have money, they will hold you.
1:00:36Job or no job, and if you don't pay, you come back to jail.
1:00:38Yeah. I know one thing, I found myself selling drugs
1:00:41to pay back Pennsylvania. Damn! Yeah, that's-- that's bad.
1:00:46So my original max of three and a half to seven
1:00:48turned into, like, seven and a half to 15.
1:00:52(laughs) Yeah, just...
1:00:54keep you on parole forever. You'll never get off.
1:01:00McCall was asking about you last weekend. Again?
1:01:03Yes. I guess it's kind of hard for them
1:01:06to get a grasp of you being away.
1:01:09Man. Plus, they don't think I'm in jail.
1:01:13No, 'cause he believes that you're at work.
1:01:18Ahh. Yeah. Yeah.
1:01:23It's sad. Yeah.
1:01:25Smith: Many offenders can end up thousands of dollars in debt,
1:01:28making it nearly impossible for those who can't find work
1:01:31to pay what the state says that they owe.
1:01:35And on top of all that, in many states,
1:01:37felons can't apply for food stamps,
1:01:39public housing, or education loans--
1:01:42effectively stripping them of the support
1:01:44that they need to rebuild their lives.
1:01:47And how long were you in prison? Seven.
1:01:49Seven. It took me four years to get a job.
1:01:51Four years. Four years. I had little jobs.
1:01:53I had one job making $5 an hour, then I got a raise to $5.25.
1:01:57I sold soap, pencils, toothpaste, T-shirts, socks--
1:02:01anything I could sell, so I wouldn't go back. Right.
1:02:03And my kids would laugh at me.
1:02:04"Daddy, you used to take money. Now you..."
1:02:07So I showed 'em my check stubs.
1:02:09They just rolling on the floor laughing.
1:02:11"Daddy, you work for this? Come on, you can't even take care of..."
1:02:14I said, "Just be patient. I'm gonna get y'all.
1:02:15"I'm going-- I'm coming, I'm gonna get you."
1:02:17♪ ♪
1:02:20Booker: I come back to Newark, New Jersey,
1:02:22when I come back from the Senate,
1:02:23and I see this sense of urgency every single day.
1:02:25We have a perspective now with our country
1:02:27is that we're gonna take a guy, send him to prison,
1:02:29and even when he's coming out, we're gonna continue to crush you,
1:02:32because we're gonna make sure you keep
1:02:33paying for that by denying you job opportunities,
1:02:35by denying you business licenses,
1:02:37by denying you food stamps if you're hungry,
1:02:39by denying you housing if you have no shelter.
1:02:42When you stop at an entrepreneur who's still paying fines and fees
1:02:45even though he's paid his debt... Right.
1:02:47...the urgency for me is seeing that we're dealing with the generational consequences
1:02:51of being the country that has the ignominious distinction
1:02:55on the planet Earth for incarcerating its own people.
1:02:58We are the incarceration champions on the planet Earth right now,
1:03:01and we don't understand that that hurts not just neighborhoods like this,
1:03:05but it hurts all Americans. We're all paying for this.
1:03:09So many people are victims of this system as well as their children.
1:03:13♪ ♪
1:03:19♪ ♪
1:03:25You've said-- a lot of other people have said as well--
1:03:28the war on drugs has been a failure,
1:03:30the criminal justice system has problems.
1:03:33That's bi-partisan now. Both sides of the aisle are saying,
1:03:36"Yes, we realize there's problems."
1:03:38This has become a big issue for you. Can it be fixed?
1:03:42So, there's a whole bunch of front-end investments that we can make.
1:03:45If we focus on intervening with young people early,
1:03:50if we focus even in the schools
1:03:52and making sure that black boys
1:03:54and Latino boys aren't suspended at higher rates,
1:03:56if we're really investing in their education,
1:03:59and they're reading at a third-grade level when they're in third grade,
1:04:04then we know that they're less likely
1:04:05to get into the criminal justice system in the first place.
1:04:07If we invest in education programs in prisons--
1:04:11You heard those guys talking about how much of a difference it made for them.
1:04:16Substance abuse programs and education programs...
1:04:19Vocational programs. ...vocational programs,
1:04:21so that we recognize-- we gotta prepare them
1:04:24for a better way when they get of here
1:04:26'cause they're gonna get-- most of them are going to get out of here eventually.
1:04:31♪ ♪ (helicopter whirring)
1:04:44(people chanting) No justice, no peace! No justice...
1:04:51There's an opportunity right now,
1:04:53right now, to get this right.
1:04:55And anybody who doesn't sign up for it now
1:04:58is not serving the interests of the American people.
1:05:05If we can make progress on this subset of the problem,
1:05:10which is nonviolent drug offenses,
1:05:13we can actually get a working majority around this issue.
1:05:18♪ ♪
1:05:20Booker: For our nation to be doing things that are contrary to our values,
1:05:23I think demands that all of us need to get up to do something about that.
1:05:26You know, King said it so much more eloquently than I could,
1:05:29that what we're gonna have to repent for in this day and age
1:05:32is not the violent actions, the vitriolic words of the bad people,
1:05:35but the appalling silence and inaction of the good people.
1:05:37♪ ♪
1:05:39We can lose sight of how intoxicated
1:05:42we've become as a culture
1:05:43with imprisonment as a response to crime.
1:05:47We need to remind ourselves that there are real people,
1:05:51and real families, and real communities
1:05:55that have been altered dramatically.
1:06:02Stevenson: When you think about throwing everybody in jails and prisons,
1:06:04it's a really hopeless way to govern our society.
1:06:08It's completely inconsistent with a democracy
1:06:12that prides itself on freedom and equality.
1:06:16Lots of people are having their lives destroyed
1:06:18not because they have to, but because we have chosen
1:06:21to ignore a basic commitment
1:06:23to fairness, justice, and equality.
1:06:26And that's the challenge of America,
1:06:29for me, in the 21st century.
1:06:36Nothing's easy. Most people aren't interacting
1:06:39with the criminal justice system and they don't see
1:06:43the impact that it's having on their communities.
1:06:46And part of our job is just to shine a spotlight.
1:06:52I think there's enough empathy among people of goodwill
1:06:57across the political spectrum that we may be able to pull this off.

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