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We Built a $2M App: This is How We Grew It — Transcript

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0:00As you know, building apps in 2026 has
0:02never been easier. But, one of the
0:04questions we still get is how do you
0:06actually get people to download your
0:08app? There's [music] a ton of info
0:10online, but I wanted to hear from some
0:12guys who actually know what they're
0:13talking about.
0:14>> We built an app called Gleam that hit
0:16top 10 in the App Store, and we did over
0:19a million dollars in ARR.
0:21>> So, meet Charles [music] and Kelvin.
0:23They're two guys who built an app to
0:24over a million dollars ARR, and they've
0:27gotten a combined 500 million views
0:29>> [music]
0:29>> on their apps online. They are pretty
0:31much experts at distribution, so I
0:33invited them onto the channel to break
0:35down their framework for getting views
0:37and downloads [music] on their apps. In
0:38this episode, we're going to walk
0:40through what everyone gets wrong when it
0:41comes to growing apps, 10 specific
0:43examples of the type of content you
0:45should [music] be posting every single
0:47day, and ultimately their advice on what
0:49it takes to grow an app here in 2026.
0:50[music]
0:51If you've built something and you're
0:52feeling stuck about getting users, trust
0:54me, you do not want to skip this
0:55episode. Let's dive in. Welcome to
0:57Starter Story Build.
1:01All right, Charles and Kelvin, welcome
1:03to Starter Story Build. Super excited to
1:04have you both on the channel. Could you
1:06just share with us who you are, what you
1:07built, and a little bit about your
1:09story?
1:09>> We're Charles and Kelvin. We built an
1:11app called Gleam that hit top 10 on
1:14education in the App Store. We did over
1:16a million dollars in ARR, over 500
1:19million views across socials. Kelvin and
1:21I both come from an engineering
1:23background, so when we first started
1:24building apps, we were good at the
1:26technical part, but we sucked a lot when
1:29it came to distribution. We were failing
1:31a [music] ton. We were extremely
1:32demotivated, but eventually we found a
1:34framework that worked for us, and
1:36[music] the purpose of this video is we
1:38want to share that exact framework, the
1:40exact playbook that took us from zero to
1:43over a million dollars in ARR, so you
1:44guys can do the same.
1:46>> Hey guys, I'm Kelvin. I do most of the
1:48product and design at Gleam. I also do
1:50some of the distribution. [music] So,
1:52Gleam is a way to learn and improve at
1:55communication skills, whether it's
1:56getting better at conversation, making
1:58friends, or preparing for an interview.
2:01And we have bite-size lessons as well as
2:04interactive practice to help you get
2:06better at your communication skills.
2:09>> Cool. So, yeah, you have some crazy
2:10numbers, right? Before I spoke to
2:12Charles initially, he talked to me a
2:13little bit about this sort of like
2:14framework and how you grew this, you
2:17know, through socials and whatnot. So,
2:19for people watching, you know, what are
2:20we going to get by the end of this
2:22video?
2:22>> So, we want to share our exact playbook
2:25that we wish we knew when we first
2:27started out that took us from zero to
2:30over a million dollars in ARR. It was
2:32really helpful for us, but hopefully we
2:33can take that and make something helpful
2:35for you guys as well.
2:36>> All right. What we're going to dive into
2:37in just a second is going to be really
2:39awesome. I think you're going to really
2:40enjoy hearing about all the different
2:42ways that you can try and grow your app
2:44here in 2026. If you're enjoying this
2:46conversation, we have an extra resource
2:48for you at the link in the description.
2:49It's called the mobile app growth cheat
2:51sheet. Inside you're going to find seven
2:53different tactics that other successful
2:55app founders have used to grow their
2:56apps. It's 100% free to download. Just
2:59head to the link in the description and
3:00grab it. All right. Let's get back to
3:01the story. Let's get into that
3:03framework. What is kind of the first
3:04step or first place we're going to
3:05start?
3:06>> This is explaining distribution like you
3:08are a 14-year-old. The biggest
3:10difference between consumer apps and B2B
3:13SaaS is that it is primarily a game of
3:16unit economics. And
3:17>> [music]
3:18>> the goal of all distribution is to
3:20optimize this one ratio called LTV to
3:23CAC. It's basically how much lifetime
3:25value do I get and how much does it cost
3:26to acquire that user, right? So, there's
3:28two main ways in which most apps scale.
3:30The first is through organic, which is
3:34by making videos yourself, posting them
3:36on TikTok or Instagram, and then scaling
3:39that through UGC programs or working
3:41with other creator agencies. And it also
3:43tends to come with the best margins if
3:45you have a video really hit. And usually
3:47the cost of acquisition here is going to
3:49be relatively low, but the lifetime
3:51value will also be a little bit lower.
3:53On the other hand, you have paid ads.
3:55And in this case, you're basically
3:57paying for eyeballs. There are a lot of
3:59different channels of which you can do
4:00paid ads through. You can do meta, which
4:03is probably the most famous one. And
4:04paid ads tends to work really well if
4:06you've had some experience in it before
4:08or if your app monetizes really well and
4:10you have the entire kind of like funnel
4:12figured out. [music] And the question is
4:14like how do you decide like which one to
4:15start with, right? For most people, I
4:17would probably recommend starting with
4:19organic because it is the cheapest. And
4:22I assume that most people that are
4:24watching this podcast are going to be
4:26bootstrap founders and you're not going
4:28to be raising sane amounts of venture
4:30capital or anything like that. So for
4:31the rest of this video, we'll be
4:33primarily focusing on organic because
4:35[music] I think it is what will be most
4:37applicable for the audience.
4:38>> If we were to start over again, 99% of
4:40the time we would recommend organic to
4:43start off with. Primarily being that
4:45when you do start off with organic, you
4:47can double dip. You can make a video
4:49that can go viral and convert. But if a
4:51video does convert and go viral on
4:53organic, when you do come around to paid
4:55ads, usually you can repurpose the same
4:57video for that. That being said though,
4:59I do think a lot of people treat paid
5:01ads as something that is intimidating
5:03and usually it is at the very beginning,
5:05but it is also necessary and extremely
5:07important. Like if you actually think
5:09about all the app studios that have
5:11scaled to millions of dollars a year,
5:13they usually scale with paid ads, right?
5:15Like you look at Calia, they started
5:17with organic, they went to paid ads. And
5:18that's for a reason, right? cuz paid ads
5:20you can scale and the feedback loops
5:22over there are also really fast.
5:24>> I feel like every app founder that we
5:25bring onto the channel, it's like these
5:27are the paths, you know? Organic, you're
5:29spamming TikTok and Instagram or a
5:31version of that, or paid ads and we have
5:33featured a ton of founders on the
5:34channel that have done like one or the
5:36other. So yeah, let's take us to the
5:37next step.
5:38>> So step two is really kind of
5:41understanding what you're looking for,
5:42right? So in middle school, I saw this
5:43diagram all the time, a paradox between
5:46good grades, getting enough sleep, and
5:47having a social life and you can only
5:49choose two. I think this is very similar
5:51to the consumer distribution game. And
5:54there's three different things over
5:56here, which I've put on like a Triforce,
5:58right? There's virality, there's
5:59conversion, and there's repeatability.
6:01The thing to understand is that these
6:02basically create a formula. Your revenue
6:04is going to be equal to virality
6:07multiplied by conversion rate multiplied
6:09by repeatability. So if any one of these
6:11is zero, then the whole thing will be
6:14zero. So at a high level it is can you
6:16get people to watch your content? Can
6:17you get people to want the product and
6:20can you continue doing it to scale?
6:21[music] And if you find all three, then
6:24that's when you know you really have a
6:25winner. So there's three common traps
6:27that every consumer app founder falls in
6:29and these are mistakes that we made
6:30starting out as well. The first trap
6:32over here is optimizing for view count,
6:34right? You don't want to just put out a
6:37video that goes viral. You don't want to
6:38confuse attention with demand. You know,
6:41you can have a video that does a million
6:42views, 2 million views, but only
6:44generates 20 app downloads. The second
6:46trap I'm going to go into is optimizing
6:48for repeatability and we are especially
6:50prone to this trap because we're both
6:52engineers. And one thing that engineers
6:53love doing is creating systems, right?
6:55And automating things. We like writing
6:56scripts. We like mass generating like
6:58TikTok carousels. But the question here
7:00is if you found something that is worth
7:03mass producing yet. And you don't want
7:05to scale something that you haven't
7:06proven to work yet and doing anything
7:08beyond that point is just over
7:09engineering. So what I would actually
7:11recommend is just like, you know, take
7:13out your phone, take out TikTok and just
7:15record videos of yourself, record skits,
7:17record content yourself, try and like
7:19get that feedback loop to be as short as
7:21possible. And when you have signals that
7:23something works, then you can start to
7:25scale it up. And the third mistake is
7:27around conversion and it's basically
7:29like not optimizing for conversion
7:31enough. Conversion is something where
7:34it's like you're selling the app, right?
7:35And the thing is like people really hate
7:38to be sold to. So we've like played
7:40around with a couple different formats
7:41over here. One of the formats is this
7:44animated skit of, you know, the average
7:46male experience. It went viral with I
7:48think like 15 million views or
7:50something, but the conversion was not
7:52the best on the video because it was
7:53primarily for entertainment and the plug
7:55came like at the very end, very late.
7:58Generally apps that do better follow
8:00this principle called show, don't tell.
8:03So it's not you vocally telling someone
8:05to download the app, but you're
8:06basically showing what the app does,
8:08right? And here two apps that do this
8:10really well. One of them is Push Scroll,
8:13which shows you doing push-ups, and then
8:15this adds minutes to your screen time.
8:17And the other one is Cal-A I, which is
8:19classic. You just snap a photo, and you
8:21see a loading screen, and you see the
8:23calories kind of pop up. You don't need
8:24to explicitly mention that it's Cal-A I
8:26or Push Scroll. You can just show the
8:28demo, and then people will look at the
8:29logo at the top, and then become curious
8:31and download the app. Again, the goal
8:33over here is to get a format that has
8:35all of these three. You only need one
8:37format to scale to 100k MRR. People
8:40think you need to do all these like
8:42different experiments. You need to do
8:44paid ads. You need to work with like
8:46five different agencies, but you just
8:47really need one format to take off. So,
8:49in the wise words of Alex Hormozi, you
8:52just got to do the boring thing for an
8:54extended period of time, often more than
8:57uh you would find comfortable, and
8:59that's how you win. Okay, so yeah, I
9:01think one of the things that's coming to
9:02mind is like for someone who's just
9:04getting started or trying to figure out
9:06this triangle of virality,
9:08repeatability, conversion.
9:10What's like an approach or a way they
9:12should be thinking about it?
9:13>> The way I've currently do it, and the
9:15way I've done it in the past, is to
9:17create a system around how you test. The
9:19hard part is usually not intellectually
9:21like finding the formats. The hard part
9:23is actually like executing well enough
9:24and actually following through on what
9:26you know you should be doing. So, it's
9:28more of like an emotional bottleneck,
9:30right? The way you get around that
9:31emotional bottleneck is at the start of
9:33like a week, you'll do an extensive
9:35research period where you'll find like a
9:37ton of different formats or a ton of
9:39different bets, right? You're basically
9:40taking bets on what you think could
9:42work. And then for the week following
9:44that, you'll space out when you want to
9:46test certain format, right? And then at
9:48that point, it's just execution. You
9:50become a robot. It's just about you you
9:52make a piece of content, you focus on
9:53the inputs, and then you get it out
9:54there. So, it's no set number. It's like
9:57figure out all the bets that you feel
9:58like could work at the beginning, and
9:59then just keep shooting bets. Treat
10:01everything like an experiment until you
10:03find something that works. Once you do
10:04find something that works, go deep. Go
10:06super deep. Go hard. Keep running it up
10:08because usually there's way more milk
10:10that can be squeezed than you would
10:12expect.
10:12>> Cool. Let's go to step three then. What
10:14do we do next here?
10:15>> All right. So, now that we found the
10:17secret of what makes a really good
10:19format, it's time to find the different
10:21formats that can actually make your app
10:23make money. So, starting off the classic
10:26talking head, many different ways to do
10:27this. I would say like with talking head
10:29to hit the holy trifecta, you usually
10:31need good creators. It's easy to start
10:33out with. It's not too creatively hard,
10:35but it does require finding really good
10:37creators, which is hard. Next one is
10:38skits. You can think of street
10:40interviews, what's your GPA, bands which
10:42videos, stuff like that. Another format
10:44is animations. Like how we showed
10:46before, this is really good for
10:48entertaining the user. If you do it
10:49well, you can actually get an animation
10:51team. That's also a huge moat and you
10:53can get lots of views with this. Pro
10:54tip, if you are making an animation with
10:56AI, I recommend adding in the prompt use
10:58Disney's 12 rules of animation. Helped a
11:01lot when I was doing motion design and
11:03stuff, so that's a pro tip. And then,
11:04motion design, this is kind of similar
11:06to animation. This is also a little bit
11:08harder to do, but if you can do it well,
11:10it's also a moat. Then you have
11:11challenges. These go viral on Instagram
11:13and TikTok from time to time. You can
11:15think stuff like public speaking
11:16challenges. Challenges are really good
11:18if you like timing with trends. Another
11:20one, this is a classic wall of text.
11:22Agencies love to do this because it's so
11:24easy to do and they can say like
11:25creators pump out like a ton of videos
11:27every day. That being said, wall of text
11:29usually doesn't convert that well. It
11:30used to be kind of good on views and
11:32kind of good on conversions, but these
11:34saturate really quickly. So, I I would
11:36say they're kind of mid, but you know,
11:38if you do want to test some sort of
11:40angle there, they're easy to test with.
11:41Founder led. I would actually highly
11:43highly recommend this. There's a lot of
11:45founders that have done founder led
11:47content like Yoni with Brainrot or Hot
11:49High Priests Sarah with her Upstella.
11:51The other reason I really recommend this
11:53is this puts you in the game yourself.
11:55Like you become your own creator and
11:57that forces you to think from like a
11:59creator's perspective. Also allows you
12:01to build an edge around your product.
12:03Like people are going to start
12:04associating your face with the product,
12:06which creates another layer of like
12:07trust and authenticity. Another one is
12:10series. High quality series is actually
12:12really good for building brand. Usually,
12:14people on Instagram and TikTok, it's so
12:16easy to scroll and forget what you're
12:17watching, but if there's a high-quality
12:19series, people will remember that. And
12:21then, memes. If you're like young and
12:23you're like super culturally tapped in,
12:24you could just pop these out and it's
12:26like great for volume. Obviously, it
12:27might not convert super well, but anyone
12:29who can make someone laugh across the
12:31screen, like I admire them. The last one
12:32we have here, this is a product demo. If
12:34your app is like viral in of itself and
12:37you can have that app work as a payoff
12:39for the video, this is really good for
12:40conversions, potentially going viral. It
12:42hits like the holy trifecta super well.
12:44Cali's eye basically ran this as his
12:46playbook with like influencers and you
12:48know, there's going to infinitely always
12:50be a running treadmill of like new ideas
12:52where that idea in of itself is viral.
12:55>> I love all the different examples, cuz I
12:56think something I read in the comments
12:58or people message me about is like, I
13:00don't know what to create or I don't
13:01know like where to get started. And I
13:03think you just listed out like eight or
13:0410 or whatever, like very specific types
13:08of formats that people can try and go
13:10like replicate for their app. Do you
13:11have any sense of right now, you know,
13:13end of 2026, what's still working,
13:15what's maybe fading?
13:17>> [music]
13:17>> That's a good question. Like one of the
13:18key things to going viral is novelty.
13:21So, I would say all of these do kind of
13:23work, you just have to come up like
13:25novel angles, right? [music] Obviously,
13:27the ones that are going to work the best
13:28are when your product in of itself is
13:30viral. Like if someone just sees a
13:31product and within 3 seconds they go
13:33like, this is phenomenal. I need to get
13:34this product. I understand what it does
13:36and I think it's a great idea, right?
13:38And I can tell you a lot of my friends
13:40who do have successful apps, they
13:41usually have an app that is viral in of
13:44itself and then that makes it so that
13:46marketing is already taken care of. The
13:47thing is, with Gleam, we didn't even get
13:49that. We tried that, but we're an
13:50education app, we're not naturally
13:52viral, right? So, we had to innovate on
13:55other departments, like talking head or
13:56animations and stuff, and that's how we
13:58eventually got our conversions. I'm sure
14:00it's possible with other formats, but at
14:02the end of the day, like yeah, you do
14:03want to copy what's working from other
14:05people, but you need to innovate to some
14:07degree if you really want to create a
14:09level of success for yourself.
14:11>> Yeah, this is a really great list to run
14:12down. If you want just a little bit more
14:13information on this with like examples
14:15of TikToks and Instagrams, we do have a
14:18link in the description for you to
14:19download that for free. Those are our
14:20formats. So, what should people do with
14:22these formats once they figure something
14:23out or once they decide to choose, you
14:25know, one direction or another?
14:27>> All right. So, execution. Now, the
14:29analogy that I want you to think of when
14:31it comes to execution is a general
14:33leading an army. How can a general lead
14:37an army if the general doesn't know how
14:39to ride a horse in of himself or
14:42herself? Like, the reason why that's so
14:44important is your job as a founder is
14:46inherently to try and find bottlenecks
14:48in a company and try to unblock it
14:50yourself. What a lot of people will
14:51often do is they'll ask you, "Oh, should
14:53I hire a growth operator? Should I
14:54outsource this?" Right? But, what they
14:56find out later is usually agencies and
14:58other people don't care as much as they
14:59do, and that's a fallacy to think that
15:01they will. The other reason why it's
15:03important is before you outsource, you
15:05need to know what good looks like. If
15:07you don't know what good looks like, you
15:08won't have a good gauge of who to hire
15:10and if someone's actually good or not.
15:11>> So, let's say you're starting to do
15:13yourself, and I don't know, maybe you
15:14like pushing out videos yourself, and
15:16you land on a format that's working out,
15:17right? Then what do you do? Then it's
15:19about scaling, right? How do you find
15:20creators? One place is Reddit. Our site
15:22is UGC creators. We use this before.
15:24It's a little bit underrated. Not
15:25everyone knows about this. Reddit works.
15:28Creator communities. This is kind of
15:29like a thing where if you've been in the
15:31game for a little bit, you'll know uh
15:32different creator communities. If not,
15:34just know that they do exist. You can
15:36ask your creators if they are in any
15:37communities, and if they are, they can
15:39like make intros, and it'll just be your
15:41network that compounds over time.
15:43Universities. There's a lot of clubs,
15:44fraternities, those kind of things that,
15:47you know, as a university kid, you're
15:48always looking to make money. UGC
15:50platforms. Side Script is one of them.
15:51You can also recruit there. And then, my
15:54personal go-to, cuz it always works,
15:56right? You find a good UGC creator on
15:58Instagram or TikTok, send them a DM. Try
16:00and get hop on call. So, now once you
16:02recruit them, right? How do you filter?
16:03Cuz what's going to happen is you're
16:05going to get so many more applications
16:06than you know what to do with it. The
16:08way you qualify someone is you send them
16:10a doc, and then you try to verify that
16:12they've previously gone viral before,
16:14right? That's a really good filter that
16:15they can go viral again. Once you do,
16:18right? Compile a short list and then hop
16:19on a call, you want to create that
16:21personal intimate connection so they
16:22know that you're real, there's a person
16:24behind the brand, and then that's going
16:25to make the relationship so much
16:26stronger going forward. And then, this
16:28is another question that I get a lot is
16:30like how much do I like pay creators,
16:31stuff like that. Depending on the
16:32format, you can do 10 to 25 dollars a
16:35video. You can also put like a minimum
16:37number of views just to make sure that
16:38the video is quality so they only get
16:40the the base payment if they hit like
16:42500 to 1,000 views, and then it's around
16:44two dollars to like a 0.50 to 0.8 per
16:47CPM on like milestone bonuses. And then,
16:50instead of saying like oh, we pay out
16:52like every two weeks, say we pay out
16:54after like 10 videos, right? That way
16:56people are incentivized to actually
16:58complete their retainer contract, but at
17:00the same time if they don't finish it,
17:02you still pro rate them and do the
17:03ethical thing, but it's just how you
17:05word it.
17:05>> One quick question here that I can
17:07imagine someone watching is like, I
17:09don't have a lot of money, like how much
17:10should I like put aside for this, kind
17:12of thing?
17:13>> Uh if you truly truly do not have any
17:14money, that shouldn't be a blocker, like
17:16it's free to create an account, it's
17:17free to post videos. Once you do have
17:19like some conversion on your app, then
17:21you can use services like AppCapper or I
17:24think RevenueCat does this as well,
17:25where you take out some of the money
17:27beforehand, and then ideally you have a
17:28proven format and then you [music]
17:30reinvest it. On your first campaign, I
17:32would say you should have at least like
17:33probably a few thousand dollars if
17:35you're hiring like more than like, you
17:37know, one to two creators as a
17:38recommendation, but I I don't have like
17:40an exact dollar figure for you. And this
17:42is the very last thing, which is like
17:44how do you communicate with creators?
17:45You do want to really care about the
17:47culture because what's going to happen
17:48is once you have creators who are like
17:50absolute killers, once they do really
17:51well, they're going to get offers from
17:53so many other companies, and a lot of
17:55these companies are going to be venture
17:56backed and they're going to offer like
17:57triple the amount of money you're going
17:58to offer, but the way you retain them is
18:01not through matching on price. The way
18:03you retain them is by building a really
18:04strong relationship with your creators,
18:06right? So, care about the culture at the
18:08beginning if you don't have that many
18:09creators, just create a huge [music]
18:10iMessage group chat like family, just
18:12chat with them there. It's the most
18:13intimate. And then as you expand, you
18:15can systematize more and then put people
18:17on a Discord group if it's effective.
18:20>> And a lot of the app founders we've
18:21brought on the channel they kind of s-
18:23do a version of this but I really
18:25appreciate kind of like how more in
18:27depth you're going for each of the
18:29steps. Someone will say, "Oh yeah, I
18:30scaled with UGC." And sometimes the
18:31question is like, "Well, how?" And I
18:33think what you're showing here is more
18:35of like the how to do that. So, I think
18:36it's really cool. Thanks for walking
18:37through that. Let's start to wrap up.
18:39What what's kind of like final advice?
18:41How do you want to like close out this
18:42like little session here?
18:44>> Yeah, so I would say that like the cost
18:45of building and the cost of distributing
18:48is so low now. It's really just about
18:50like building the right feedback loops,
18:52right? Like what is the fastest that
18:53you're able to turn out a video? What's
18:55the fastest that you're able to build a
18:56prototype to kind of validate a
18:58hypothesis that you have? And I think
19:00like one mental framework is like
19:02treating the entire consumer app game is
19:05kind of like a maze. You're over here at
19:07point A, you have an exit at point B,
19:09you don't really know where it's going
19:10to be. And then a strategy that you can
19:12do is you can just like explore a bunch
19:14of different directions, right? You
19:15might find some like treasure chests or
19:17like hints along the way that are like
19:18promising and you kind of go down that
19:20path a little bit more. If it doesn't
19:21work, you can backtrack. But it's really
19:23just about like getting the reps in and
19:24getting the steps in. That's probably
19:26like the biggest piece of advice that I
19:27could give.
19:28>> No, I agree. Yo, take action, bro. Like
19:30what are you doing? Why are you sitting
19:31here watching I I mean, yes, watching
19:32Starry Stories like hella valid. But why
19:34are you watching more videos on YouTube?
19:35Why don't you just take action? The
19:36smartest thing you could do this video
19:38is follow us on socials. For Instagram,
19:40Charles.unemployed. I also talk about
19:42like a lot of sauce when it comes to
19:44building apps. Kelvin.zhg on Instagram,
19:47too.
19:47>> And then you can also follow us on X on
19:49Charles Lu 9 [music]
19:50and Kelvin zhg.
19:52>> Yeah, 100% give them a follow. We'll
19:53also put those links in the description
19:55below. Hopefully in this video you've
19:57seen kind of the different ways that you
19:59can think about distribution for your
20:00app. Charles and Kelvin, thanks so much
20:02for coming on Starry Story Build. This
20:04was really awesome. And uh we'll be
20:06excited to have you back whether on this
20:07channel or the main channel at some
20:09point. Thanks.
20:10>> It's our pleasure.

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