WATCH: "I Didn’t Know What the Sky Looked Like Any More", Ricky Jackson Exonerated After 39 Years. — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:00this is democracy Now democracynow.org
2. 0:02the Warren peace report I'm Amy Goodman
3. 0:04with Juan Gonzalez an Ohio man has been
4. 0:07freed from prison after spending 39
5. 0:10years behind bars for a crime he didn't
6. 0:12commit Ricky Jackson a 59-year-old
7. 0:15African American man had been jailed
8. 0:17since
9. 0:181975 on a murder conviction the
10. 0:21prosecution's case was based on the
11. 0:23testimony of a 13-year-old witness after
12. 0:26a 2011 investigation the witness
13. 0:28recanted his Tes saying he had
14. 0:31implicated Jackson and two others under
15. 0:33police coercion the witness Eddie Vernon
16. 0:36said police had fed him the story and
17. 0:37threatened him with the arrest of his
18. 0:39parents if he didn't cooperate on Friday
19. 0:42Ricky Jackson was freed after
20. 0:44prosecutors dropped the case how dides
21. 0:46it feel it's
22. 0:48extraordinary needless to say you know
23. 0:52words can't express how I feel right now
24. 0:54I'm just glad to be out glad to be a
25. 0:55free man what are you going to do where
26. 0:57are you going to go wow I mean you know
27. 0:59you sit in prison for so long you think
28. 1:01about this day but when it actually
29. 1:03comes you don't know what you you just
30. 1:05want to do something you know besides
31. 1:07what you've been doing 39 years okay
32. 1:09when you heard the judge say an hour ago
33. 1:13you're a free man goodbye talk about
34. 1:15what you were feeling what was going on
35. 1:17that we couldn't see I mean it it was
36. 1:19like an emotional roller coaster you
37. 1:21know it's just I mean the English
38. 1:22language doesn't fit what I'm feeling
39. 1:25right now you know it's just I mean I'm
40. 1:28just on the emotional high right now
41. 1:30with nearly four decades wrongfully
42. 1:33Behind Bars Jackson's the longest held
43. 1:35us prisoner to be exonerated another
44. 1:38defendant in the case who serves
45. 1:40slightly less time Wy Bridgeman has also
46. 1:42been released for more we go to
47. 1:44Cincinnati Ohio where we're joined by
48. 1:46Ricky Jackson and his lawyer Brian how a
49. 1:49staff attorney with the Ohio Innocence
50. 1:51Project Ricky and Brian welcome to
51. 1:53democracy Now Ricky Jackson how does it
52. 1:56feel to be
53. 1:58free good morning uh um I'm still
54. 2:01getting used to it you know it it's
55. 2:03almost been a week and uh I'm still
56. 2:06getting adjusted and acclimated to being
57. 2:08out here you know and not being inside
58. 2:10those closed walls you know and closed
59. 2:14walls and during all those years that
60. 2:18you were uh Behind Bars did you ever
61. 2:21lose a hope or expectation that you
62. 2:24would finally be exonerated could you
63. 2:26talk tell us about the uh uh the emotion
64. 2:30trials you went through all those all
65. 2:32that
66. 2:33time well I said like I said previously
67. 2:37it's it's constantly a battle trying to
68. 2:39stay positive and some days you get to
69. 2:42the point where you don't think you're
70. 2:44going to make it and you know it's just
71. 2:47a up and down type situation you know
72. 2:49you always up and down you know and uh
73. 2:53but the answer your question there were
74. 2:55times when I thought you know this is it
75. 2:57for me I'm not you know this is it Ricky
76. 3:00tell us your story uh what happened 40
77. 3:03years ago and how it was that a
78. 3:0513-year-old child uh was the key witness
79. 3:08against you who now very ill 40 years
80. 3:12later wanted to come
81. 3:16clean uh well the case happened in
82. 3:201975 I was uh 18 years old at the time
83. 3:24and uh there was a neighborhood store
84. 3:26that was robbed by three asants and
85. 3:30um somehow Edward Veron became involved
86. 3:33in the case apparently he went to the
87. 3:36police and told them that he was a
88. 3:38witness and that he uh eventually
89. 3:42identified myself Ronnie Bridgeman and
90. 3:44Wy Bridgeman as the as
91. 3:47salance um a couple of days later we
92. 3:49were arrested taken downtown in AR rign
93. 3:52held before a lineup and um we weren't
94. 3:56picked out in the lineup but unbowed to
95. 3:58us we didn't know this we thought we
96. 4:00were you know everything was okay nobody
97. 4:02came out and said that you guys are
98. 4:05being charged or anything so we assumed
99. 4:08we was getting our uh obligatory phone
100. 4:11call after you arrested and um we
101. 4:14thought we were going home but that
102. 4:16didn't turn out to be the case and a few
103. 4:19months later we all went on trial we
104. 4:21were charged with uh capital
105. 4:23crimes and uh subsequently we all lost
106. 4:26our uh
107. 4:28trials we were sent to death row we were
108. 4:31sentenced to die in the Ohio electric
109. 4:32chair we were all s sent to death row
110. 4:36where we stayed and lingered and
111. 4:38wondered and worried for two and A2
112. 4:44years now there was uh I'm sorry go
113. 4:50ahead no I was just
114. 4:52um at that time there was a there was a
115. 4:55lot of debate about the Ohio death
116. 4:57penalty so as it turned out they
117. 5:01um they nullified the death penalty at
118. 5:03that time and everybody back there was
119. 5:06given a life sentence in
120. 5:10prison now there was a period of time uh
121. 5:13when you were offered uh the the
122. 5:16possibility of of parole could you talk
123. 5:18about that and and uh and your
124. 5:20insistence on your
125. 5:23innocence yes sir um uh my attorney here
126. 5:26Mr uh Brian how um he came to me one day
127. 5:30and he said listen Ricky um this is the
128. 5:33situation uh there's a deal on the table
129. 5:37you can walk out of here now a free
130. 5:40man if you'll plead guilty to the
131. 5:43charges you're presently incarcerated
132. 5:46for I mean and I have to admit that it
133. 5:48was a tempting offer at that time I've
134. 5:50been in prison so long I didn't I didn't
135. 5:53even know what the sky look like
136. 5:55anymore but you know it was just
137. 5:57something inside of me that said
138. 6:00you can't do this you know you've gone
139. 6:02too long you struggled too hard you
140. 6:06can't do this you're innocent you know
141. 6:10don't admit that something you didn't do
142. 6:12you're innocent and that was the
143. 6:14decision I made it was the right
144. 6:15decision was and really it was the only
145. 6:18decision that I could have made and
146. 6:20Brian how could you talk about the the
147. 6:23process of exonerating Ricky Jack uh the
148. 6:27role of uh some initial reporting on the
149. 6:31case in a in a local newspaper and then
150. 6:33the Innocence Project's involvement and
151. 6:36the role of two people who at that time
152. 6:38were school children on a bus uh in uh
153. 6:42in terms of being able to get him
154. 6:45exonerated yes uh thanks ju I mean this
155. 6:48this case was really literally years in
156. 6:50the making um you know when when uh the
157. 6:53Ohio wience project first got this case
158. 6:54it was before Adon had come forward and
159. 6:56recanted uh there were students there
160. 6:58that that had spoken with Ricky uh that
161. 7:01strongly and sincerely believed in his
162. 7:02innocence uh and that were passionate
163. 7:04about the case and that's what what kept
164. 7:05things going uh around uh three or four
165. 7:09years ago there was some really
166. 7:10fantastic investigative journalism done
167. 7:12by Kyle Swinson at the Cleveland Scene
168. 7:13Magazine um he continued to find things
169. 7:16that that suggested maybe that there was
170. 7:18something wrong with the trial back in
171. 7:191975 inconsistencies and adance story
172. 7:22and and uh leads that the police had
173. 7:24towards other people uh that continued
174. 7:27until eventually in 2013 um Ed Vernon on
175. 7:30on a in in a hospital room uh confessed
176. 7:33to his Pastor that that he had lied in
177. 7:341975 and had carried that weight with
178. 7:36him for uh uh you know over 35 36 years
179. 7:40at that point and his Pastor encouraged
180. 7:42him to come forward to the Innocence
181. 7:44Project uh we continued to work on the
182. 7:46case I mean we we found uh uh school
183. 7:49children who were with Ed Vernon on a
184. 7:51school bus when the shooting happened uh
185. 7:54even as as recently as a week before the
186. 7:55hearing um so you know I mean this is
187. 7:58has just been
188. 8:00uh such an effort by so many different
189. 8:01people law students over a dozen law
190. 8:03students with the the University of
191. 8:05Cincinnati College of Law uh the
192. 8:06attorney on the case prior to to me
193. 8:08Carrie Wood so many people have put a
194. 8:10lot of work into this case and it's just
195. 8:12really something special uh to to to be
196. 8:14sitting next to Ricky here today uh it's
197. 8:16not something that we would have uh
198. 8:18dreamed as possible a few weeks ago
199. 8:20Ricky I wanted to go back to that 2011
200. 8:23article published by the Cleveland Scene
201. 8:25that laid out the weakness in the case
202. 8:27against you the article notes you were
203. 8:29convicted based on this testimony of a
204. 8:3113-year-old boy with poor eyesight and
205. 8:33conflicting stories Eddie Vernon now a
206. 8:36grown man has since filed an affidavit
207. 8:38admitting he never saw the murder also
208. 8:40claims he was threatened by police into
209. 8:42identifying you as one of the murderers
210. 8:44Vernon told the Cleveland Scene quote
211. 8:46the detective said that I was too young
212. 8:48to go to jail but he would arrest my
213. 8:50parents for perjury because I was
214. 8:51backing out my mom was sick at that time
215. 8:54and that really scared me I didn't want
216. 8:56my parents to get in trouble over this
217. 8:59so Ricky Jackson um now you are free uh
218. 9:05what are your plans for
219. 9:09Thanksgiving um I want to be with some
220. 9:11good people um here in Cincinnati uh
221. 9:15they prepared a nice dinner for me and
222. 9:17it's just going to relax and just enjoy
223. 9:20the holiday play some games watch some
224. 9:23football just do normal people stuff you
225. 9:27know and I want to ask Brian how this
226. 9:30whole issue
227. 9:31of uh we're constantly seeing these
228. 9:34stories of people who spend years in
229. 9:37prison and then later are exonerated uh
230. 9:40but no one seems to be asking what's
231. 9:42wrong with our criminal justice system
232. 9:44that we time and again we're having
233. 9:47these uh uh these examples of a justice
234. 9:50system that just didn't bother to really
235. 9:53seek the truth but rather sort of
236. 9:58conviction
237. 9:59yes I mean you know it's a human system
238. 10:01uh and any system that's that's run by
239. 10:03human beings is always going to have uh
240. 10:05errors I think as a country we've we've
241. 10:07decided to set the bar at a place where
242. 10:10hopefully uh you know people we prefer
243. 10:13guilty people go free than innocent
244. 10:15people be convicted but obviously that
245. 10:16doesn't always happen uh and lots of
246. 10:18people who are trying to do a good job
247. 10:21and are sincere uh in what they're doing
248. 10:23including police and prosecutors are
249. 10:25human beings and they make mistakes uh
250. 10:27and uh the more more cases like this
251. 10:30come out the more aware I think that we
252. 10:32are of the sort of mistakes that can
253. 10:34lead to this the problems with witness
254. 10:35identification uh the problem with with
255. 10:38leading interviews and or leading
256. 10:40questions and witness interviews um the
257. 10:42sort of pressures that that witnesses
258. 10:44can can be under uh and so you know
259. 10:47hopefully cases like this will will mean
260. 10:49uh that it's more rare moving forward
261. 10:50and and UHA and people like Ricky don't
262. 10:53spend 39 years in prison for something
263. 10:55Ricky Jackson as you're released from
264. 10:57jail um Fergus is on fire and I was
265. 11:01wondering if you have thoughts about
266. 11:06this well first of all it's a terrible
267. 11:08tragedy but unfortunately it's something
268. 11:11that seems to be reoccurring in America
269. 11:13all too often you know and
270. 11:18um I just think that everyone's lost
271. 11:21ability to or just don't want to talk to
272. 11:24each other I mean I think it all begins
273. 11:26with dialogue you know and
274. 11:29sometime you have to listen to the other
275. 11:32side to get an understanding of the
276. 11:34entire situation you know now two I just
277. 11:38need think it needs to be more dialogue
278. 11:40two brothers were convicted with you
279. 11:42Brian how what has happened to
280. 11:46them well honestly they're struggling
281. 11:48right now I mean they're they're they're
282. 11:50really struggling right now you know I
283. 11:54mean it hasn't been easy for these guys
284. 11:56since they got out you know
285. 12:02finally uh Brian how uh well no let me
286. 12:05ask Ricky Jackson uh you face death how
287. 12:09close did you come to death and what
288. 12:12were your thoughts as an innocent man
289. 12:15about to be put to death by the
290. 12:19state well um you know when you're
291. 12:22senten to death they give you they give
292. 12:24you a a death date
293. 12:26and I was back there 2 and a half years
294. 12:29and mine came up
295. 12:32and I heard a a prison guard coming down
296. 12:35the walkway and I thought they were
297. 12:37coming for me that that because it was
298. 12:39my day but really they give you this
299. 12:42yellow piece of paper that says that
300. 12:44you're you've had a stay of execution
301. 12:47pending uh Ohio Supreme Court decision
302. 12:51and it was just it was just um you were
303. 12:54always on edge you know it was just
304. 12:57a it was was just a terrible situation
305. 13:00to be in you know thinking that you know
306. 13:02you could be dead any any day now you
307. 13:05know it was just a horrible situation so
308. 13:07the state the state almost took your
309. 13:09life they did take 40 Years of your life
310. 13:12will you be
311. 13:15compensated I have no idea man it's a
312. 13:18long process Mr how could probably
313. 13:20answer that question better than I could
314. 13:22well Brian you have 10 seconds
315. 13:25well uh it is a long road uh you know
316. 13:29certainly I think uh um he's he deserves
317. 13:31something for the the 40 years that was
318. 13:33taken from him but that's something that
319. 13:34we'll just have to see as as things move
320. 13:36forward it's amazing already $43,000 has
321. 13:40been raised just from people who care
322. 13:42about you Ricky Jackson uh we will
323. 13:45continue to follow to see what the state
324. 13:47will do Ricky Jackson has just been
325. 13:49released from prison after 39 years for
326. 13:51a crime he did not commit longest held
327. 13:54man who's now been exonerated his lawyer
328. 13:57Brian how as staff attorney with the
329. 13:58Ohio Innocence Project happy holidays to
330. 14:01you both that does it for our broadcast
331. 14:04if you'd like a copy go to our website
332. 14:05of democracynow.org our specials this
333. 14:08week will be Nome Chomsky for an hour
334. 14:10and Isabella yende tune in I'm Amy
335. 14:13Goodman with Juan Gonzalez thanks for
336. 14:14joining
337. 14:22us