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Watch As Self-Kidnapper, Sherri Papini, Gets Caught Lying To The FBI - FULL INTERROGATION FOOTAGE — Transcript

by DVS - Forensic Psychology · 12,449 words · 2,125 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00I know all of that because he passed a
0:02polygraph test. That said, it's not an
0:06abduction. She asked me to come and get
0:08her. No. I rented a car. No.
0:12up and picked her up.
0:15incredibly long road
0:17Yeah. Um but some stuff's come up. So,
0:20over
0:21we've always had the the DNA out there
0:24in the world. Um Sorry, before we get
0:26too far, obviously, just like always,
0:29thank you for coming. We appreciate you
0:30taking the time to contact us. As
0:33always,
0:34your presence here is voluntary. Yeah.
0:36Um you can go at any time.
0:38And uh
0:40all we want is truthful statements
0:41because it's a a crime to lie to federal
0:44officers.
0:44Oh, yeah. Oh, that's good. Understood?
0:46Yeah.
0:47Sorry, pretty relevant part.
0:49So, um
0:51so, there's always been DNA out there.
0:53Um and we we've done test after testing.
0:56We've gone out to like the
0:58Parabon, which is a private company that
1:00does all like the the genetics, and
1:02we've just hit wall after wall after
1:04wall. Um but recently, um we found some
1:08a familial DNA hit. So, what that does,
1:11it it just tells us it came from a
1:13certain person. So, um like the mother
1:16or the father or a a son or an uncle or
1:18however that is, it just hits that like
1:20somewhere in this family tree
1:22Mhm. um is where the DNA comes from.
1:24Okay. So, with that, we open up the
1:26investigation. We go into who could it
1:29be um
1:32within the family. Um so, once we
1:34started opening up those doors and
1:36looking through those the family members
1:38and just trying to see Facebook stalking
1:41them, um criminal histories, um just
1:44that normal investigation that we do
1:46once we start looking into things, we
1:48started finding some interesting things.
1:50Okay. Um so, one of the things that came
1:53out to us,
1:54go on, if you Is there anything in there
1:56that looks
1:58of interest or notable?
1:59interest or
2:03And that's an awkward photo.
2:06I know.
2:13So, the table there the picture's a
2:14little grained out. So,
2:16There's I mean
2:18to me I see a
2:20table there that somewhat looks like
2:22something you described to me in the
2:23past and then I see wood paneling.
2:26I'm talking about the room.
2:28Yeah, we noted both of those things back
2:30in August of 2017.
2:32And then we spoke with you about and you
2:35showed us this picture of the table.
2:37Do you remember that, Sherry? Yes, I do.
2:39And so, when we were trawling through
2:41this, you know, Facebook page, he saw
2:44just the edge of that table. Yeah.
2:46Denise got it. Yeah. Oh, cool. Denise
2:48said, "Hey, Peter,
2:49look at this look at this table." And I
2:51was like, "Oh, wait, you're right." And
2:53it had the wood paneling. Mhm. So, we're
2:56like, "Well, well, where was that photo
2:57taken, right?" And so, we're trying to
2:58figure that out.
3:00So, oh, okay. Um
3:02So, that's led us obviously now down to
3:05the
3:06obviously this Facebook page has a
3:07person. It's got like people tagged into
3:10it. So, it has
3:11uh
3:12so, Peter has a But that's still like
3:14that's still a valid memory, right? Is
3:16that this was the table?
3:18Yeah.
3:18A table like this was the table you were
3:20on when you were branded? And we've been
3:22talking about that a lot because so many
3:24memories are so faded now. It's been a
3:27long time.
3:27It's been a really long time. So, like
3:31details and things like that, we did the
3:32best that we could to take notes on it
3:35and all of that, but
3:36a lot of it's really hard. It's hard to
3:39think about. Mhm.
3:41Yeah.
3:42Um
3:43Yeah, now I see both of those from what
3:46she told me and stuff. Okay.
3:49That was an interesting With that we
3:50started looking at different people and
3:52who might be involved and just trying to
3:54figure it out.
3:55And I wanted to show you this picture.
3:59And obviously
4:01um
4:02people can change their weight, people
4:04can change the color of their hair.
4:06Don't
4:08um just because the photo might be a
4:10little bit different. As you know, women
4:12like to change their hair and
4:15their makeup, their their weight can
4:17change. So, that that might be a little
4:18bit different, but we wanted to take a
4:19look at this uh sit back and see if you
4:21recognize anybody in these six photos.
4:24Um you don't feel like you have to
4:25provide an answer. There's no right or
4:27wrong answer. Just let us know if you
4:29see anybody in this photo that you do
4:30recognize, and if you do, we'll talk
4:32about how. Okay. Okay.
4:43Keith, if you could do me a favor not to
4:44say anything and tell That way we don't
4:46influence
4:56I don't think so.
5:02So, nobody jumps out?
5:06I mean, this one a little bit, but
5:09You say this one a little bit, which
5:10number is it?
5:11Number three.
5:17And when you're ready, I'll show you the
5:18Nothing's really like
5:21There's nothing in there that says, "Oh
5:23yeah, that's her." No. Okay.
5:28It's like half the picture of different
5:29hair and time of makeup.
5:38That's a pleasant group of people.
5:43And again, Keith, if you can just wait
5:44and think.
6:02Do you have a tissue or
6:12It's hard because the other photos are
6:14distracting me. Can you give me another
6:15piece of paper if you don't mind?
6:17Another piece? Yeah, I want to cover
6:19Yes.
6:22I want to look at them when they line up
6:23better. Sure.
6:29A little distracting. There we go.
6:33Thank you.
6:54She's got that that puffy under those
6:56eyes, but
6:58I don't know.
7:02This is really hard.
7:05Take your time.
7:12I mean, for her like if it's even close,
7:14it's worth you guys obviously to Look at
7:16her, right? Or
7:18obviously we know they're masked. We
7:20know there's already hurdles to come
7:21about.
7:24Just another tool, another way to
7:26Just another And obviously cuz you don't
7:28know the people. If you knew the people,
7:29then you show pictures, but
7:34I'm going to try not to check out this
7:36side of the photo right here.
7:38Yeah, it's I don't know. For some reason
7:40it
7:41makes it harder when you're looking at
7:42like a crowd of
7:49What Peter said different
7:52color hair and dyes and all that kind of
7:54stuff.
7:58Like I'm trying not to get my hopes up.
8:07I know.
8:10I would say right right here is what's
8:12drawing you to this photo. So on photo
8:15number five, is that what you see? This
8:16is the
8:18This is the first one we showed you.
8:20The second one we showed you.
8:22So on
8:23six-pack number two.
8:26But like you were saying, if someone
8:27were to lose weight, that would change.
8:29You're drawn to photo number five? Yes.
8:31Features of photo number five? Correct.
8:33And again, just for for the record and
8:35for when you go back, like
8:37number
8:38number one is when you say three
8:40similar, she's similar to the younger
8:42female that we've always described in
8:45everything. This part right here doesn't
8:48really match what I'm remembering, but
8:50yeah.
8:50The hairline doesn't match? Smaller one,
8:52older one. And just cuz it's been a long
8:55time,
8:56um
8:57can you remind me what number what what
8:59the younger one did, like the main parts
9:01of it compared to the older one, just
9:03for the last
9:04like clarity and stuff.
9:06So for the record, so The younger one's
9:09the one that let me go. Okay. And was
9:11the nicer of the two. Okay. The older
9:14one was really abusive and really mean
9:17and is the one that
9:19did all the really terrible things.
9:22Okay.
9:23And that's that's my memory, too. Just
9:25trying to reference it for our notes and
9:28Okay. Just so we don't have to say, "Oh,
9:29she was referring to the second
9:31interview back in 2017."
9:33I've been mixing names in my head, but
9:38They're really bad.
9:40They're not coming
9:40Is number three alive in that photo?
9:43Yes, Jesus.
9:44And then one more.
10:58I don't think anyone in this room really
11:01So first, suspect number three, nobody
11:06I really don't think so.
11:12So we have more pictures. We're not
11:14Let's not be in the room.
11:16So like I said, with the female the
11:19familiar DNA, obviously we saw it first
11:21picture as a group family.
11:23He's got the table, right? So that's
11:25that's ultimately what led us to those
11:26pictures,
11:27which then snowballed us down the road
11:30that we're eventually at and where we
11:33are.
11:34So, were do able to find like where that
11:37house is? Yes.
11:39And what Tell me more.
11:42We'll get to that.
11:44That's where I was going next.
11:48And may I ask, how did we even get to
11:50that point? How did we get to that
11:51point? Familiar familiar DNA. So, they
11:54said they came back and said, "Oh,
11:55here's some people related in this
11:57familiar
11:5740 people.
11:59Total. That's good thing I guess. 40 is
12:01better than You just started going
12:02through and then
12:04Boom, that caught your eye. Yeah, we
12:06started looking at everything that we
12:07could. Phones, online presence, criminal
12:10history,
12:11Facebook photos, DMV photo, what they
12:13drive.
12:15Like like you said, Denise is obviously
12:17you guys are aware Denise is in a
12:18different location now. She's one that
12:20found that picture. So, we cast a wide
12:22net to start finding certain aspects.
12:26Is she still working on the case even
12:27though she's in the Not officially, but
12:29I always call her and say, "Hey, what do
12:30you think about this? What do you think
12:32about that?"
12:33But yeah, she's still working on it in
12:34an informal way.
12:39So, if you look at this box here.
12:50There's no There's stuff in there now.
12:53We're not looking at the stuff.
12:58I literally was cleaning papers out
13:00yesterday and found that picture.
13:05I didn't even look at the picture yet,
13:06but I've seen it in that folder. And we
13:08got it.
13:25Do you remember this child?
13:27Yes. I just found the original one of
13:29that and I was trying to explain It's a
13:31little bit different, but
13:34it's pretty Excuse my language, it's
13:37pretty [ __ ] similar.
13:40But
13:42it's different.
13:44What's different and what's the same?
13:48It's hard. There's a lot of [ __ ] in the
13:49photos, but
13:50Well, let's just focus on this here.
13:53Let's focus on those two cuz there's
13:54less There's less color.
13:56I've been I've got walked the streets
13:57with my wife in Mexico and we went to
13:59every shop because of the color changes.
14:02No Nothing Not because there was
14:03anything new in it. Just the color.
14:07I'm going to ask a question. Is this
14:09from the same house as that? We don't
14:11know. It's not Okay. Uh what
14:13What do you see in this photo, Sherri?
14:15Like what
14:17You said it looks very similar. What's
14:18similar?
14:18is
14:20what I'm remembering that feeling, you
14:23know, grabbing it and feeling that
14:25feeling, but this part is different.
14:28This part is different. That doesn't
14:30definitely doesn't look like
14:31metal part it looks the same as what you
14:33remember.
14:35But this piece right here
14:37This part doesn't look the same. Right.
14:39And what was the difference in it?
14:41That there was a lot more. There was a
14:43lot more there.
14:44Like bulkier? Yes. Thank you.
14:47I don't think the pictures really show
14:51If I If I There really isn't
14:54more metal or like beefier like
14:56If you was stronger this side of it a
14:58little bit more. Basically the width of
15:00a plywood sheet of plywood.
15:03It's like a piece of plywood almost.
15:04It didn't look like that. Yeah, it looks
15:06blown up, so it makes it look like it's
15:07that thick, but it's about like 3/4
15:09inch
15:11It's probably like half inch. It's all
15:12cool stuff. Okay, yeah, it just looked
15:13bigger in the picture.
15:15It didn't look like that.
15:18Okay, but similar.
15:20Besides the metal part, anything else
15:21similar?
15:24I mean
15:26the metal part
15:28What about one verse shelf versus two
15:30shelves? Oh.
15:34I think there was two shelves, but now
15:36I'm having trouble remembering. I think
15:38there was two. I'm pretty sure there was
15:39two. I can't Maybe there was two. I
15:41don't know. I'm focusing on this part
15:42right now. Sorry.
15:43Sure.
15:47So, that's why
15:56window
16:01with the wood panel
16:06Try to ignore the TV and stuff. I don't
16:08think you had a TV with you, right?
16:10Definitely not.
16:11Um
16:13What am What am I looking for for the
16:14window? Do you want to know if it's like
16:16the same height? The Well, the type of
16:18window, the wall itself, anything in
16:21there from these photos that make you
16:22believe that this was where you were
16:23being held. I feel like
16:28this wood paneling is too thick, but I
16:32mean
16:34You mean this way?
16:35There was wood paneling, but I don't I
16:37can't remember something like that being
16:39there.
16:40And I I don't remember
16:45That's fine.
16:46it going all the way up to the window is
16:48what I'm having trouble remembering. The
16:50window in that photo has holes along the
16:53edges.
16:58There's holes.
16:58I mean rather, right?
17:01Yeah, I'm holding this here.
17:03we're going too fast. Sorry. We don't
17:05mean to overwhelm you. We're just trying
17:07to
17:08draw your attention to different things
17:10that maybe we noted. And we want to know
17:12how that compares with what you
17:14compared to to wood paneling because
17:16it's getting just
17:19I don't I mean that's probably
17:20important.
17:23I mean not I don't know if I'm supposed
17:24to talk about it but obviously those are
17:26screw holes, right? Is that what you're
17:27getting at? They're just holes. Holes,
17:29screw, nail, something. Okay.
17:32For a floor. Oh my [ __ ]
17:45So is it fair to say that this
17:48the paneling like wood paneling below
17:51and sheetrock above is what you
17:53remember.
17:54But you can't recall
17:56details about the ledge
17:58and the the difference in width of these
18:00to is that this is touching the window.
18:02How
18:04it meets the window. And I don't
18:06threshold? Yeah.
18:07Okay.
18:09Something's going funky with that that's
18:10what it seems.
18:12Well I don't know if the pictures could
18:13be wrong before or perhaps
18:15What could be off base? That it it
18:17couldn't even be a detail that's said
18:19but an important So far I would
18:22So one of the things that we always
18:23noted in the with the bathroom
18:25description is just the the weird layout
18:27of the bathroom. So do you remember the
18:29layout of the bathroom? Yes. Well
18:32Let's try to the description best
18:33description and then we'll start showing
18:34some pictures.
18:35There's
18:36door, toilet
18:38sink, tub. Is that what you mean? The
18:40Yeah. You walk in the door, first
18:42there's a toilet. Yes. On the right or
18:44left side?
18:46If I'm
18:48She has a weird world with just in
18:51general.
18:52I am.
18:53I don't know.
18:54But whatever you you walk in the door on
18:56one left or right you have a toilet then
18:59I want to say
19:00left. I'm sorry. That's fine.
19:03I want to say toilet on the left.
19:05Okay. So maybe toilet on the left.
19:07Okay. Hold on. Toilet on the side.
19:09Toilet on the side and then what's next?
19:10Toilet on the side.
19:12Sink
19:13tub. Okay. And that's a unique thing
19:16about bathrooms.
19:17Yes.
19:19Hard to change where that that sewer
19:20logo is, right? It takes some takes some
19:22expense to do that. Yes. Yes.
19:25I guess the first thing I can be certain
19:26is they keep turning it upside down.
19:34They keep turning it upside down.
19:36All right. Now I'm ready.
19:48Well, that's Francis. Pleasant.
19:52Don't place that on the magazine.
19:54I mean
19:56That's the first thing that you found in
19:58everything.
20:01Oh, come on. We were talking about the
20:04order.
20:05We were talking about the order.
20:07That's nice this is not open, so you're
20:08good.
20:09this doesn't doesn't look like
20:11the bathroom to me, but the order is
20:15Yes, this is the type of order, but this
20:17is not what it looked like to me. Okay.
20:21And So, the order is correct, but you
20:23don't recognize the bathroom as being
20:24what you would call
20:26Do you remember there was a detail about
20:28the shower that you provided previously?
20:31uh about the type of
20:36something on the tile or something like
20:37that. Do you remember anything
20:38There was tile on the tub? There was
20:40crack. Where was the crack?
20:43It's not a memory test. If you don't
20:45remember, that's fine, but
20:46we we remember that detail when we were
20:49took some of these photos and we were
20:50just trying to bump it up against what
20:51you might remember.
20:55I don't know. I don't know.
21:01In general, were we talking about Okay.
21:07Sorry.
21:08That's okay.
21:10Thank you, Ty.
21:13I don't know.
21:14I know I remember there's a crack on
21:16that.
21:18So, for like trying to do you remember
21:20if it was high or low? Was it any of
21:23those like details? Horizontal,
21:25vertical?
21:27One tile out of the tiles.
21:46Not sure if I'm supposed to Can I talk
21:48or not? Sure. If Unless she tells us to
21:49shush. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm trying to
21:52like get myself there and I don't know.
21:55As a reminder, I do remember when we
21:56went to my grandma's house.
21:58You didn't like her tile cuz it reminded
22:00you of that, I think I said.
22:02You sent us a picture. That's why I was
22:04saying we were
22:04That's I just want to remind her cuz if
22:06you think of that cuz I can't even think
22:07of what her tile looks like right now,
22:08but I do remember you didn't like that
22:10at all.
22:11But I can't remember the crack. I
22:13remember you told me a crack, but I
22:14don't remember where you told me.
22:15Otherwise, I'd bring it up, but Yeah.
22:17I don't know. I'm I'm so nervous of like
22:19saying something that's not going to be
22:21right, so
22:23I I just can't remember. I don't know.
22:25I said in the beginning, we only want
22:26the truth, and so whatever is the best
22:29I think we'll understanding or memory
22:30that you have. Right.
22:32And my direction is obviously not the
22:34best. So, then this is starting to
22:44That doesn't look right
22:47to me,
22:49but
22:52So, this crack is in a different
22:53location than this crack, which is
22:55probably better viewed in this photo.
22:59Yeah.
23:04But this is the same bathroom we showed
23:05you that
23:06This is the original Yeah, the same one
23:08with the charming magazine on the Sports
23:10Illustrated, yes.
23:17Okay, so nothing jumps out at you in
23:19that photo? We're not trying to
23:20overwhelm you, obviously.
23:22It's been a long road and and and here
23:24we are.
23:27If we could go back to the closet really
23:28quick though, I remember when you were
23:30talking about
23:32being chained in the closet
23:35and trying to figure out a way to get
23:37loose.
23:38You talked about working on a screw,
23:41right? Uh-huh. And what happened to that
23:43screw when you were done with it? I dug
23:45a hole in the wall and poked it into the
23:47wall. Okay.
23:49Because this is
23:52This is an interesting photo as well.
23:57Is this in the closet? That's in the
23:59closet. No, it was I it was drywall. It
24:02was into the drywall.
24:03It was into drywall, but
24:05But there's an electric plug right in
24:06there. Yeah. Okay.
24:10So maybe not that one. No.
24:13Okay.
24:14Okay.
24:14So
24:17we're showing you all of this
24:20um
24:21because ultimately this is the house
24:24um
24:25that that you were at.
24:27Um
24:28we talked to you the people who lived
24:29there.
24:30Um
24:31we Sorry.
24:34We we've we found the house, we found
24:36who was involved. Um we talked to who
24:39was involved. Um we talked to family who
24:42who knows that you were there. Um and
24:46talked to a couple people that or talked
24:48to one guy um
24:50who did see you
24:52um
24:52during this event.
24:54Um
24:55Unfortunately
24:57there's a lot of truth, there's a lot of
24:59things that were that were said that we
25:02have always confirmed, that we've always
25:04said
25:05there's there's a lot of truth, and then
25:07there's some unknowns. Like, one of the
25:09simple ones, like, well, this
25:10description of the bathroom is just
25:12weird.
25:13Like, that was like an argument in all
25:14of our offices where we were sitting
25:15there like, this
25:17this part's weird. Um but then we find a
25:19house with it.
25:21Then the the all threat through the
25:23thing, that's just I think that's just
25:25weird.
25:26Um It's unique to this place. Like,
25:28that's a pretty custom You can't just go
25:31out to IKEA and buy a closet that looks
25:33like this.
25:33Yeah, exactly. Right. So, once once we
25:35have all those things, then we start
25:37talking to the person who lives here,
25:39who had lived there, who still lives
25:42there,
25:43um start talking to his family, and
25:45starting that whole investigation,
25:46peeling one thing back after another
25:48after another, doing the same thing
25:50we've done for the last 4 years.
25:52Um
25:53it led us to a specific person, um
25:57but not a female.
25:59It led us to the car that picked you up,
26:01but not an SUV.
26:03So, there's lots of different aspects
26:06that are truths and falses.
26:09Um
26:10and we're we're to the point now that
26:13nobody would have ever imagined that
26:15this would have blown up the way that it
26:17did.
26:18So, I've been a cop 15 years, I've never
26:22seen the media scale that that this
26:24garnered pretty quickly. Um
26:28How long you been in law enforcement
26:29now? 12 years in the bureau. So, like,
26:32of the minds, Brian, who'd been around
26:3520-plus years, people who've been in my
26:36office like 25, 30-plus years,
26:40um the media attention that this got out
26:42was
26:43was insane.
26:45Um
26:46so, I think with that being said, some
26:48choices and some decisions
26:51ultimately ultimately changed the
26:53original path of of what happened.
26:58I don't think anybody would have
27:01wished the media frenzy that occurred
27:04like for this event, no matter what the
27:06situation. If it was a kid because the
27:08media skewed so many facts, it it
27:11brought so many people in from the
27:13woodwork that if we didn't have the
27:14woodwork, we wouldn't have the noise.
27:16And that brings a lot of pressure
27:18when you get that kind of scrutiny.
27:21So, we we'd like to talk to you more
27:23about those things and we can do it with
27:25Keith here or we can ask Keith to leave
27:28to whatever you're comfortable with so
27:30we can
27:31break down
27:33some of the problems. If you want Keith
27:35here, all we want is to to have the
27:38truth. All we want is to be able to tell
27:40the truth.
27:42All of that's all we've ever wanted from
27:44day one.
27:46We went we talked to you for hours.
27:48We've been there. We've we've done the
27:49all these different things
27:51waiting for something, waiting for it to
27:53break, waiting for us to get
27:55lead something to hear
27:58cuz the DNA came back, like I said, to a
28:00specific person.
28:02That specific person told us very
28:04specific things.
28:06His family then told us specific things.
28:11So, if
28:12we can talk with Keith or without Keith
28:14here,
28:16what would you like?
28:28It's completely up to you.
28:32And like I've always said, I wanted you
28:34to have a voice. I wanted you to make
28:36decisions. I wanted you to control
28:38certain aspects. I think I told you that
28:40on the first interview we ever had. I
28:43never want to bully you. I never want
28:45you to believe I'm bullying you. I want
28:47you to take back control.
28:49Um that's one of those things and this
28:51is that that take back control of the
28:53interview
28:54which I promised you to do the first
28:56time we talked if you remember that.
28:58Actually we were in Mount Shasta so the
28:59second time we talked.
29:01Um
29:02It's been a long road trip but we just
29:04want to talk to you.
29:05We can have Keith step out if that's
29:07going to make you more comfortable.
29:09Okay. Step Keith.
29:14Do you want to step out or do you want
29:15to stay?
29:16Obviously I want to stay.
29:21Or we can do a little bit of both. Talk
29:22to you alone first and then have him
29:24come back in.
29:31Um
29:33it's completely up to you. And that's
29:35why I'm not even looking at Keith. I
29:36don't care about your opinion. I know.
29:38Um
29:39I what we want out of this is just
29:43is the truth.
29:44Um
29:45so we can get ahead of some things so we
29:47can help control things.
29:49How crazy things got so the unknown of
29:53what if I say certain things what's
29:54Keith's reaction
29:56cuz you don't know what I'm going to
29:57say, right? So I don't know Keith's
29:59reaction either. Um so if I say other
30:01things like oh Keith don't worry about
30:02that he can come back in.
30:04But I'd rather give you the opportunity
30:06to hear things
30:08be able to judge it because at at
30:10everything, right? I'm saying things to
30:12you that are making him nervous. It's
30:14making Keith nervous.
30:15It's it's changing the value, right?
30:17What We changed the tone of the
30:19interview. You can feel it already in
30:20the room from the way you walked in to
30:22where you're feeling right now.
30:24Um so Well, I mean law enforcement has
30:28always it's
30:29been an issue so
30:30Okay.
30:32So if if you want Keith to leave, I'll
30:35ask Keith nicely to leave.
30:37If you don't want Keith to leave then he
30:38can Should we press on and press on? And
30:41we'll we'll move on to the next stages.
30:45But
30:46I want to give you that opportunity
30:47first.
30:56But
30:58obviously everything's fearful. If you
30:59tell him to leave and what I'm going to
31:01say is benign,
31:03then then he's going to we can pull him
31:05back in the room. Like, "Hey, Keith,
31:07come out here. This this is what This is
31:09what we talked about." Um
31:11so
31:12so that that fear of him wigging out
31:14like why is she trying to hide something
31:16from me?
31:17There isn't If there's anything to tell
31:18me Yeah, there's no trick here. We're
31:20just trying to make sure that
31:21there's no trouble talking you can be
31:23able to talk to us truthfully.
31:27Are you Are They're asking you. They're
31:28not asking me. Obviously I I would want
31:30to be here and whatever needs to come
31:31out.
31:31And you can change your mind in the
31:33future, too, if you want to change.
31:35Like I said in the beginning, you're
31:36pretty good so if you wanted to
31:38talk with them privately, that's fine,
31:40too, but we want to talk to you. We can
31:42leave the room, give you guys the room
31:43for a couple of minutes.
31:45Um this next stage of things could be
31:48could be benign, could be like I
31:51I we forgot to tell you this or oh,
31:53yeah, all these things make sense now.
31:56Um this I can tell you the puzzle that
31:58makes it all come together or I can tell
32:01the puzzle that crashes everything
32:02apart. I don't know what that piece is,
32:04honestly. All I know is facts. All I
32:07know is certain specific items that will
32:09either tear the castle down or it's
32:11going to build the castle up. And I
32:12don't want to
32:14I don't want to build tear the castle
32:15down and not give you
32:18the ability to then fix your own castle,
32:20even if it's just a small thing here or
32:23it's the whole castle. I want you to be
32:25able to to choose that.
32:28So we can step out of the room, let you
32:30guys talk cuz I don't know what
32:32information I'm going to do if it's
32:34life-changing news or if it's oh, yeah,
32:37everything's fine.
32:38I just don't know what it is.
32:40Usually right we show the pictures
32:42because every everyone's invested in
32:44this picture.
32:45Keith do the drawings. Keith is the one
32:47who laid gave this stuff. So Keith has
32:49always been a part of your memory for
32:51small details.
32:53And that's why Keith's been here this
32:55whole time and
32:56and that's why He makes me feel safe
32:58anyway. Absolutely. He makes you feel
32:59safe too. We can continue on. I know you
33:01can continue on. Absolutely.
33:04And again, I just don't know what the
33:06pieces are. So if I would say hey this
33:08is going to bring the whole world down,
33:09I'd tell you it's not going to bring the
33:10whole world down.
33:12And then we need to talk talk a while.
33:15Or I would suggest we talk a while.
33:18But that's completely up to you guys cuz
33:20I don't know.
33:21I just want to talk to Yeah. We'll be
33:23We'll be right here.
33:40You need to stop waiting in the hallway
33:41and tell me the truth. I don't want
33:43I don't want them to find her.
33:45I don't
33:45Yeah, whatever you want to do. Just tell
33:49I don't want
33:52I don't want them to mess her up. I
33:53don't want
33:54Okay. I understand
33:59I don't want them to find her.
34:03I don't
34:04I don't want them to
34:05I don't want her to be arrested. I don't
34:06want them to find her. I don't want to
34:07arrest her. I just don't want to hurt
34:08her. I don't want to find her.
34:13I don't
34:14I don't know. I don't want them to find
34:16her. You're not listening to me.
34:17why.
34:19Because she saved my life. Then tell me
34:22honey.
34:28Look at her being right now. I am. They
34:30are [ __ ] with you.
34:32No, that does not what I mean.
34:33I don't want them to arrest her. I don't
34:35want to press charges and I don't want I
34:37don't want to go down that road.
34:38But you told her?
34:42I don't want to go down that road. I
34:44don't want to
34:45Tell me why.
34:46Because she saved my life and she's the
34:48reason why I get to hold my children
34:49every single day.
34:52And I don't want to get her
34:53arrested by the police.
34:55I don't want that. But what do you mean
34:56by that?
34:57I don't know why do I want to
35:01I don't want them to arrest her.
35:03Why? Because she saved my life.
35:08So you don't arrest her.
35:10That doesn't mean we don't find out who
35:11it is.
35:18And no matter what you think, they're
35:19just going to send you here.
35:23This comes out and they find out. It's
35:25over. Whatever happens is over.
35:27And it doesn't matter what you say.
35:29They're going to be They're going to be
35:30there.
35:33So
35:35you need to
35:37Tell me the truth.
35:38Tell me the truth. If you don't want to
35:40press charges, then that's up to you.
35:47I don't think I can do that to her.
35:51You're not making any sense to me.
35:54To the point where I'm getting scared
35:56now.
36:00So you need
36:01to
36:03Tell me
36:04what's going on.
36:05You need to
36:10Yeah. Well, I can come back in 15
36:12minutes or think about it.
36:17Just didn't want me in the room or not?
36:20I'm obviously Hopefully you've had a
36:21chance to chat briefly.
36:23The fears later maybe.
36:26Nothing Just
36:28Nothing that we that I'll say to you. I
36:30want to eventually tell him, you know,
36:32if you want me to.
36:34Do you want me to step out
36:36while you're here now?
36:38We would love to hear what you hear now.
36:41Cuz we want to be able to address them
36:42as best as we can.
36:55I don't I don't know.
36:57I don't know.
37:00Yeah, I feel like you're you're in the
37:01driver's seat right now.
37:04I think it's easier to control things
37:06once you know what the information is.
37:08To be honest with you.
37:09Sure. So, the I can tell you what it is.
37:13I don't know.
37:14Say Say what it is when Keith leaves,
37:17and then you can say yes or no whether
37:19or not you want him in there for the
37:20rest of it.
37:21Right now, he's just Am I in the room or
37:23am I out of the room? So, that's the
37:24thing. And I'm
37:26And I'm I'm to the point where if you
37:27want him here, we'll just go on with the
37:29conversation. As long as you're not
37:31interrupting or causing any disturbance,
37:33I'm all Oops. Stay over here.
37:36But, if he steps out, I can say a name.
37:40And then you can choose whether you want
37:41you want him in here for the rest of it
37:42or not. It's completely up to you.
37:44Or I can just continue on and
37:48again, like I said, I wanted you to
37:50always have control
37:51um
37:52over certain aspects of stuff.
38:07We're not to a point where anybody's
38:09going to jail yet. We're not to a point
38:11of any anything like that. We're We're
38:13just still at the talking stage. We're
38:15at the control stage.
38:17Uh
38:18You seem scared, Shanna.
38:20No, I'm not scary.
38:23What is it?
38:52When you don't answer, Sherry,
38:56it makes me concerned because I want to
38:58hear what your answers are, and I want
38:59to
39:00be able to
39:02understand.
39:04There's no way to control things you're
39:06going to know.
39:07I
39:11I don't want you to find her.
39:14But we're not going to find her.
39:17She's the reason why I get to see my
39:19children every day.
39:21I agree, but we're not going to find
39:22her. She's the reason What do you mean
39:24by that? She means the younger one let
39:26her go.
39:27Right?
39:28Is that what you're referring to?
39:30Uh
39:31We're not going to find her.
39:34Uh and we can we can just skip to We can
39:37skip to the rock into the water and
39:39ruffle up the pond if we want to now.
39:41Again,
39:43this is your last offer This is the last
39:45time if you want to do this alone or
39:46with Keith.
39:47Keith's been through this also on a
39:49different level.
39:50Um
39:52So, I'm
39:54I'm ready just to
39:55I'm ready to move on and and throw the
39:57dart and throw the rock and see what
39:59happens to the water. But, Sherry, look
40:01look at me.
40:02What do you want?
40:04I don't want her to get in trouble.
40:07She's not going to get in trouble.
40:09So, the DNA came back to James Rakes.
40:14Uh
40:15You're The DNA that was on you
40:17belongs to James Race. The picture in
40:19the Can I get the picture
40:23The picture of the table
40:25is James Race's little brother. He died
40:28recently.
40:29Uh
40:31he
40:32we talked to him.
40:34We
40:35put him on the polygraph.
40:37We talked to everybody around him.
40:40We have the rental agreements, phone
40:42rental car rental agreements.
40:45We have We have everything
40:47that says that he said he told the
40:50truth. That's James' brother.
40:52Deceased, Nick.
40:54So, everything you've told us so many
40:57truths in this situation.
41:00The reason why you can describe the room
41:03is because you stayed in the room in the
41:05dark for hours for days on end.
41:07The reason why you lost so much weight
41:09is because you stopped eating.
41:11The reason why you got a rash on your
41:13arm is because you cleaned his towels.
41:16The reason why the brand is because he
41:19went to the store, bought the branding
41:20tools, and branded you.
41:22The reason why your nose was broke is
41:24because of a hockey stick.
41:27I know all of those things, and I know
41:29there was no sex. I know all of that
41:33because he passed a polygraph test that
41:35said it's not an abduction. She asked me
41:39to come and get her.
41:40No. I rented a car. No. I drove up and
41:43picked her up.
41:45He He passed the polygraph test, Sherry.
41:49If that's not what happened, what did
41:50happen, Sherry? I don't know.
41:54No, there's no way it's James. There's
41:57no way. There's no way. The DNA doesn't
42:00lie. His DNA His DNA was on you. There's
42:03no way. Robert saw you in the house
42:08while you were down there. While
42:10everything spun out of
42:12his cousin.
42:14Why everything ran out of control
42:16on the initial.
42:18There's no way.
42:21It's It's 100% Robert's DNA or James's
42:24DNA.
42:26We even collected blonde hairs from the
42:27room.
42:30There's no way it's James. There's no
42:33way. I know why that it is. Why are you
42:34saying it's not James?
42:39Why are you saying it's not?
42:44It wasn't me.
42:46What's that? We were friends.
42:48There's no way. And he came and got you
42:51because you asked him.
42:53No. When was the last time you had
42:55contact with James?
42:58When my brother died.
43:00Brother died in 2017?
43:05Is that right?
43:07I don't remember.
43:10Was it before or after the induction?
43:13Before.
43:18When was the last time you saw James?
43:25I don't know.
43:26Forever ago when I lived in Southern
43:29California. So the last person-to-person
43:32contact you had with him was back in
43:342006?
43:36When you were living in Southern
43:37California?
43:37I don't know.
43:41So was it prior to your marriage?
43:44It's him. There is no way it's him.
43:47Well,
43:48it is James. The DNA tells us that it it
43:50was his DNA on you.
43:52The
43:53The DNA alone says it's him.
43:55And when we talked to him, confronted
43:57him with the DNA,
43:58he told us what happened. He 100% told
44:00us what happened. And gave us details
44:02that nobody else would know. And we can
44:04call him
44:05and we can all talk about it.
44:07But
44:08ultimately
44:10you know, give me a free second.
44:11Ultimately we put him on a polygraph
44:13like we did Keith.
44:16Keith was inconclusive to be honest with
44:18you
44:20on whether he was involved or not.
44:23But 100% James was telling the truth.
44:27The questions were
44:29did Sherry ask you to come pick her up?
44:31He answered yes. That was a truth on a
44:33polygraph.
44:35We asked him if you the two of you ever
44:37had sex. The answer was no.
44:40During 2016. During 2016 during the
44:43abduction. He said no. That was a truth.
44:46We asked him if you asked him to brand
44:49if you asked him to brand you.
44:51The answer was yes.
44:52And he passed the polygraph on all of
44:55those questions.
44:58He took us to the stores where he bought
44:59the chain.
45:01He talked we talked to the friend who
45:02rented the car.
45:04The car that he rented drove over 900
45:06miles in a day
45:09to on the drop off point.
45:12Sherry, I know this is a lot to take in.
45:17And it's not like we don't know the
45:18answers to these questions. And the fear
45:20of
45:21fear of Keith's reaction obviously now
45:24he's in the room.
45:25The fear of
45:27media, the fear of
45:29all of these things are coming are
45:32coming forward. They're they're in front
45:33of you now.
45:36The only way to get a hold of it, the
45:38only way for everybody to come together
45:40and heal, the whole community has to
45:42heal
45:43is to is for us to be able to say when
45:46we when we presented all of the
45:48evidence,
45:49all of the stuff that came forward,
45:51she you told us the truth.
45:54You told us what happened.
45:56Because
45:57you did go in a dark room. That's true.
46:00You did sleep in the back seat of the
46:02car. That's true.
46:04You did
46:07lose weight, you were branded, your hair
46:09was cut, you did have bruises all over.
46:12But how those bruises got there are
46:14because you did it and James did some.
46:18The reason why your nose got broke is
46:20because you held the hockey stick to
46:21your face and he forced it into your
46:23nose.
46:24The reason why the brand is in a
46:26straight line is because he did it. He
46:29described exactly where it was. He told
46:32us exactly how he did it, where he did
46:34it, how he did it.
46:35Only you and I and maybe five other
46:37people know where the brand was.
46:40He told me immediately.
46:43Robert told friends and family you were
46:45there. His mom knew that you were there
46:47cuz of course it went news and everybody
46:49knew you guys dated. Everybody knows
46:51that you guys had a relationship. So
46:53when it happened, of course family
46:54reached out to him and he told them that
46:56she was here.
46:57But it said he hurt her, but I didn't
46:58hurt her.
47:07So
47:08What are you thinking, Sherri?
47:10It doesn't make any sense. Why doesn't
47:12it make sense?
47:16What actions doesn't make sense?
47:18A lot of it doesn't make sense.
47:21Okay.
47:22Can we talk about those?
47:24No.
47:29James DNA was confirmed on your on your
47:32clothing.
47:34The two of you haven't seen each other
47:35in over a decade.
47:37You You told me that you haven't been in
47:39his room, you haven't had contact with
47:40him in over 10 years. However, You just
47:43got to his bedroom to sleep. And his And
47:46the DNA on you was still a vibrant piece
47:49of DNA.
47:5010-year-old DNA dies.
47:53The DNA that was there specifically was
47:55non-seminal fluid. It was It's seminal
47:58as fractions.
48:01You got that from his house somewhere.
48:04So, whether it was the bed that you were
48:06sleeping on, whether it was the couch,
48:08whether it was anywhere in there.
48:12When somebody would come to the door and
48:14be around the property, you'd call
48:16James, James would call Robert, which is
48:18those two doors down, Robert would run
48:21people off the property.
48:23Robert told me all of that.
48:25James told me everything.
48:28He's the only person that hasn't
48:31started telling us certain facts. There
48:33are certain facts that are true. When we
48:35were sitting there talking to James,
48:38there were so many truths that were a
48:39part of your story that it's hard to
48:42decipher the lies.
48:44Until we put it all together. Until he
48:47says, "Hey, Wyatt, how did you pick her
48:49up?" I open up the passenger side seat,
48:52I open the door, you jumped in the back
48:53seat.
48:54Why'd you Why'd you do that? Why'd you
48:56do that? I don't know.
48:58It was weird.
49:00So, so are you Are you calling James a
49:02liar?
49:04Do we not Are we not believing James
49:07what he told me?
49:08No.
49:13I know I know you're still
49:15You cannot believe that it is James.
49:18I can't believe James told us the truth.
49:20That's what I can't believe.
49:25He passed the polygraph here.
49:27So did Keith. No, he didn't. He was
49:28inconclusive.
49:30And he was involved.
49:32So, James is involved. So, James is
49:34involved, but I don't
49:35James picked you up. You called James to
49:38pick you up. You mailed him a letter
49:39with your address.
49:41You used a
49:42No.
49:42a burner phone to call another burner
49:45phone for James to come and get you.
49:47You're saying since you're married you
49:48haven't called James?
49:50No, I have called James. Because earlier
49:53you said you had
49:55contacted James.
49:57His phone records show that you did. You
49:59did.
50:01The phones don't lie. The DNA doesn't
50:03lie, Sherry.
50:04His polygraph doesn't lie. So we can you
50:06can go a couple different directions
50:08now. His story I've already told you
50:09lying to me is a crime. So you walk out
50:11this door with telling lies
50:13and that's a crime.
50:15I think we need my lawyer.
50:18This isn't making any sense. What's not
50:20making sense, Sherry? The parts that
50:23don't make sense is James. No, the parts
50:25that don't make sense are that you're
50:27accusing two females
50:29who abducted you when it was James.
50:32The part that you were branded, James
50:34did it. He told me he did it. Who Who
50:37would sit there and say I branded her,
50:39branded Sherry on her right shoulder
50:40blade?
50:41Who does that?
50:43He told us how and showed us the letters
50:45that matched the brand. Took us to the
50:47store and pointed out the letters.
50:54The The problem is today today's the
50:56case is resolved.
50:58Everything The only things Well,
51:02how do we prove that you're telling us
51:03the truth?
51:04How do we prove that the truth The The
51:07truth is that two women took you, but I
51:10I'm telling you it's a male.
51:12The The fact that you were branded is
51:14true. The small fact is that you were
51:16willingly laid down and did it versus
51:19being tied to a table.
51:21So we can always We could do the
51:23polygraph and try to Whatever parts of
51:25you're confused about Can you go outside
51:27to talk to Can I talk to you outside
51:29real quick?
51:30I'm very late.
51:35The The fears of how out of control
51:37everything got, the fear of all these
51:40things
51:41is the reality.
51:44And the only people that can slow the
51:45train down is you and I.
51:50You You put yourself through this, so
51:53when you came forward you can tell
51:54certain stories.
51:56You missed
51:57the
51:59You couldn't control the DNA that we
52:01found.
52:04You couldn't control when we talked to
52:05James, he'd tell us what happened.
52:13The story always was hard for anybody to
52:15understand.
52:17The tragedy that the community went
52:19through, the events that unfolded,
52:23the fear now of what what it all means.
52:27But there's no without a doubt, James's
52:30DNA was on you.
52:32I can The likelihood
52:34No. The likelihood of being an
52:36ex-boyfriend is a problem. No. The It's
52:40astronomical.
52:43Then you add in when we go talk to
52:45people who never even heard of us.
52:47When we say, "What's going on here?"
52:49They knew that you were at the house.
52:51All of them never came forward.
52:56No.
52:57No, what?
53:04Do you want to call James?
53:11This was a long road.
53:14I had no idea what it was going to take
53:16me.
53:19But right now
53:22continuing and saying that two girls
53:23took you is a lie to Peter.
53:27It's just a lie.
53:29Cuz we were able to prove it with
53:30evidence.
53:31With a rental car agreement,
53:33person driving 2,000 miles in a day,
53:37the DNA on you,
53:39and him passing a polygraph, it's it's
53:41three legs to a
53:43three legs to a table to stand on.
53:47Keith's going to wait out there.
53:51Now is your opportunity.
53:57Based on your reaction previously, what
53:59you're telling me is you did not call
54:01James and ask him to come get you.
54:04Is that what you're saying?
54:07Because if that's what you're saying, I
54:08have to understand that.
54:12There are things he says that we can
54:14corroborate, and whatever you say, we're
54:15going to try and corroborate.
54:17But right now, I'm not sure what you're
54:18saying. You're just saying you can't
54:20believe it's him.
54:22And you're saying you don't understand.
54:25But there are deals details he provided.
54:28You know he you were in his house.
54:30We collected hairs from that bedroom.
54:34That's going to have DNA on it. We
54:35already have your hairs that you left
54:37with your cell phone when you were
54:39picked up.
54:40That's my DNA, obviously.
54:43So, that's not going to lie either.
54:45The descriptions you provided are that
54:47room and that house to a T, except it's
54:51not a gravel driveway.
54:53And it's not elevated.
54:56And there's not two women who live
54:57there.
54:59But James lives there.
55:01James lives there. You know James lives
55:03there.
55:07So, you might as well get out of your
55:08head that James is not involved, cuz
55:10James is clearly involved. And James
55:12already told us he's the one that did
55:13the breaking.
55:15That's something that he admitted to,
55:18Mayhem. He admitted to a felony that
55:20could put him in prison over. Well, how
55:22would that How do you It doesn't just
55:24doesn't jive.
55:26So, now's your opportunity to say
55:28were there issues between you and Keith?
55:30Is that why you needed to leave?
55:32I know we read your text message. We're
55:34already aware of some issues, but
55:35enlighten us if that's the case.
55:38If there was a valid reason for you to
55:39leave, let me know what that was.
55:42James said you had your job broken by
55:44him.
55:45And that's why he came and got you
55:46because you were in an abusive
55:47relationship. I love my husband.
55:50So,
55:51were you in an abusive relationship with
55:52him?
55:55Have you told other people in your life
55:57that
55:58like China that Keith has abused you in
56:00the past when that wasn't true?
56:04China told me that day two.
56:09Where there was an incident at a party
56:11that you got hurt playing like I don't
56:13know Wii or Pictionary or something and
56:16then you told other friends that Keith
56:17hurt you.
56:19When there was witnesses at the party
56:20that said you just that you got hurt
56:22during a party.
56:24And you go tell
56:26James that you were being hurt, you were
56:28being abused and you couldn't come
56:30forward because Keith has friends in law
56:32enforcement. If all of that's Is that
56:35true?
56:41Has Keith ever been abusive towards you?
56:43We are not talking about my husband. I
56:46love my husband.
56:49So, why leave?
56:52Is James lying to us?
56:54I wanted to leave him because I wanted
56:57to be with my children. I would never
56:59leave my children. But you didn't you
57:02didn't leave them permanently. You came
57:03back to them. Ultimately No.
57:06You left them every day at daycare.
57:08Daycare. So, it's not like they
57:13And James talked about that decision
57:14when you were driving down how hard that
57:16was.
57:17You left at 10:00 knowing that Keith was
57:19going to get home late, knowing you were
57:21going to leave the kids at daycare
57:23and how much that tore you up on the
57:25drive down.
57:27You told us that.
57:30Then things got out of control.
57:32James and
57:32I talked about that.
57:34We didn't talk about that before.
57:37When?
57:40When I would have a tail from work.
57:43What happened?
57:47We were talking to other guys.
57:50Oh my god,
57:51why did I do that?
57:53Like when you were in Eureka, you'd give
57:54them a call.
57:57You'd start chatting with them.
58:00Told them some of your problems.
58:03When did it turn from just chatting to
58:05this plan to get away?
58:08No.
58:10No. No.
58:12You were getting all of Don and Mitsky
58:14the night before.
58:15Why did I do that?
58:19We're trying to understand why you did
58:20that, too. We're trying to understand
58:22all of it.
58:24I don't know. I don't know what Don and
58:26Mitsky were doing, because I was doing
58:28that.
58:29What what This is an awful choice.
58:32Talking to other guys that has got me
58:34here.
58:38So, are you What aspect are you saying?
58:40Like how how did How does talking to
58:42other people get you here? We've gotten
58:44over it.
58:45my husband. I love my husband, and I
58:47made mistakes, and I talked to other men
58:49that I shouldn't have. But But we took
58:52it a step farther this time.
58:55This is a little different than just
58:56chatting with them. I I appreciate you
58:58talking and being forthright about the
59:01other guys you were talking to.
59:04When did it turn into something more?
59:07Obviously, you never would have imagined
59:09that CNN and 20/20 and Good Morning
59:12America would care
59:13about you wanting to leave Keith or
59:16wanting to teach him a lesson No. or
59:18wanting to get him in line.
59:20No. I was just talking to Keith and
59:23I don't want to leave my husband. Right.
59:27How were you talking? I was doing
59:29you just said. How were you
59:30you talking to James?
59:31I don't want to leave my husband.
59:34Sure. How were you talking to James?
59:38I mean like on your on your cell phone
59:41or another cell phone? My work cell
59:43phone. My work cell phone. I don't want
59:45to leave my husband. I don't want to
59:48leave my husband. Was it just to flirt?
59:52What's your work cell phone number?
59:55I don't know.
59:56What's that?
59:57I don't remember.
1:00:04How long were you guys talking?
1:00:07I don't know.
1:00:10Why would he have Why would he rent a
1:00:11car and come and get you?
1:00:13I don't know.
1:00:15Well, if you don't know that, why would
1:00:17you get in the car and and go down to
1:00:19Costa Mesa?
1:00:23Those are all things we can verify,
1:00:24Sherri. They weren't. The car rental,
1:00:27the fuel, the mileage,
1:00:30the calls from you to him, the burner
1:00:32phones, all that can be proven.
1:00:37I don't think you're a horrible person,
1:00:38Sherri. I think things went a little
1:00:40sideways on you. I I mean we started
1:00:42this conversation knowing what this was
1:00:44going to turn into.
1:00:46I didn't know that I'd have people
1:00:47standing on boxes in front of my office.
1:00:50That Keith would be on 20/20.
1:00:52I don't want my husband. I don't want my
1:00:55children's faces
1:00:57stupid.
1:00:58They're talking to other guys.
1:01:01But why did Why did James come and get
1:01:03you?
1:01:04I know you guys were talking.
1:01:07I know you said in the past that Keith
1:01:09has hurt you to other friends.
1:01:11Why tell them those details if that
1:01:13stuff's not true? It's one thing to
1:01:15talk.
1:01:17It's one thing to talk. It's another
1:01:18thing to to say abuse has hurt her.
1:01:23Everybody I talked to about James said
1:01:25he's the nicest person in the whole
1:01:26world. Yeah, he may be a hockey player,
1:01:29but he is the nicest person in the
1:01:31world. He's nice to a fault.
1:01:35I don't I know I know lots of people. I
1:01:38don't know anybody I'd run a car for and
1:01:39drive 9 hours for.
1:01:42Keith,
1:01:42James did that for you.
1:01:47He thought he was helping you. He never
1:01:49asked you what. He never questioned
1:01:51anything. He never asked for reward
1:01:53money on the line. He never asked for
1:01:55anything.
1:01:57He didn't ask for sexual relations. He
1:01:59didn't ask for a relationship after you.
1:02:02He didn't ask for anything.
1:02:04He's never even talked to you since.
1:02:07And yet he's been quiet until now.
1:02:10And the only reason why he talked is
1:02:12because we have his DNA.
1:02:14That's the only reason why we got to his
1:02:16door. That's the only thing that led us
1:02:17to his closet. That's the only thing
1:02:19that led us to the bathroom of the
1:02:20goofy.
1:02:23And that's the only reason why he
1:02:24started talking to us.
1:02:26Once we showed him once he showed us the
1:02:28bedroom and we started pointing out the
1:02:29holes in the wall like, "You used to
1:02:31have this boarded up, huh?" And he said,
1:02:33"Yeah."
1:02:35Sherry asked me to put boards up.
1:02:40There's Nobody's ever going to be asked
1:02:42be able to answer why decisions were
1:02:45made.
1:02:46But we're James.
1:02:48We don't understand.
1:02:50You don't understand what?
1:02:56What what parts are you not
1:02:57understanding?
1:02:58He even showed us Sherry.
1:03:00He even showed us the letters that were
1:03:01used for the brand, the numbers.
1:03:05I have pictures of them right here.
1:03:08This is the set that was used. What did
1:03:10the Bible verse mean to you? How would
1:03:12you have known that?
1:03:16Why did you pick that Bible verse?
1:03:29James picked the Bible verse.
1:03:44We need to be able to control the
1:03:45outcome and what's going to happen next.
1:03:48The only thing we know is going to
1:03:49happen right now is what you can tell us
1:03:52and what you can shed light on.
1:03:54And for other people to be able to
1:03:57try to understand.
1:04:00If it was a mistake, it was a mistake.
1:04:02But at this point
1:04:04not telling us what happened, not
1:04:06telling us the truth is another mistake.
1:04:09It's a mistake on top of a mistake.
1:04:12Right now, we can start over.
1:04:15We can We can end We can leave without
1:04:18without a dirty conscience, without the
1:04:20what's going to happen next.
1:04:22Right now
1:04:22Deep down inside, Sherry, I know you
1:04:24know what's right and what you should
1:04:25do.
1:04:27And check up late.
1:04:34Why did you ask James to come to get
1:04:36you?
1:04:46You asked Donovan the night before to
1:04:48come meet up with you.
1:04:50Everything happened at once.
1:04:53You were asking to stupid thing I did.
1:04:57You know, the thing about this is we
1:04:57were able to prove that Donovan never
1:04:59came up here.
1:05:01But now we can prove that James did.
1:05:03We have records to prove it.
1:05:08You might not I it was a good idea now,
1:05:122020 hindsight. At the time,
1:05:15why did you ask him to come pick you up?
1:05:23Was that an I don't know?
1:05:31What's that?
1:05:33It was me, James.
1:05:35It was James.
1:05:38James, the DNA doesn't lie.
1:05:41His DNA was on you.
1:05:44Your DNA is going to be in that room.
1:05:46One in septillion for James. I don't
1:05:49even know how many zeros septillion is
1:05:51relative to you. That's why despite your
1:05:53description of how far you might have
1:05:55gone in the car,
1:05:57we already went down there. We knocked
1:05:59on his door.
1:06:01We took those pictures.
1:06:06He understood that DNA didn't lie.
1:06:09So, he came in clean.
1:06:11Now's your chance to do the same.
1:06:14And if you don't, you're going to be
1:06:15shaking your head later and say I should
1:06:18have told him what happened.
1:06:20Talk to me like that.
1:06:24Like what?
1:06:29There's so many fears right now that we
1:06:31can't even wrap our head around it.
1:06:34There's There's too many unknowns that
1:06:36we can't control.
1:06:38We can't control what what the media is
1:06:40going to do.
1:06:41We can't control
1:06:43what
1:06:44what everybody's going to think.
1:06:47The only thing we can control right now
1:06:49is to control that
1:06:51that James tells the truth, and that's
1:06:53that's a yes or a no.
1:06:59What did James lie about? What did James
1:07:00lie to us about?
1:07:04Of the thing Of the things I've told
1:07:06know,
1:07:07I don't know.
1:07:10I just don't know. There's just no way.
1:07:13Believe me, James. I just don't know. I
1:07:16don't know.
1:07:17It is James. That's not even a question
1:07:19anymore. We know you were in that room.
1:07:21That's already
1:07:23clear.
1:07:24You you described everything in the
1:07:26room.
1:07:28What you're saying is it wasn't James
1:07:29that came and picked you up by the
1:07:31mailboxes?
1:07:32Is that what you're saying?
1:07:34And then still two females?
1:07:40Is that what you're saying, Sharon?
1:07:49At the at the end of everything
1:07:52once we've you had to have known that
1:07:54this was going to come at some point.
1:07:56I was talking to
1:07:59my mom.
1:08:00What's that? It was all my fault. I was
1:08:03talking to
1:08:04my guys.
1:08:06Well, we know that
1:08:06do what they do.
1:08:09Yeah, but then how did we get to Costa
1:08:11Rica? Or sorry, Costa Mesa?
1:08:14Or wherever
1:08:15How do we get to LA?
1:08:17There's a big jump and a leap from
1:08:19talking to men
1:08:21to
1:08:22getting in a car with somebody. But that
1:08:24getting in a car with somebody is
1:08:26somebody you had a relationship with.
1:08:29He told us about the abortion. He told
1:08:31us about that you guys' relationship.
1:08:35He told us about things that I don't
1:08:36know if you've ever told anybody about.
1:08:40He told us so many things.
1:08:43And he did it all for you.
1:08:45Nobody else. He got nothing out of this.
1:08:47And you're welcome to go home, Sharon.
1:08:50But right now is your opportunity to
1:08:51tell us the truth.
1:08:53And
1:08:56Can't be.
1:09:02So are you saying that it was two
1:09:03females that picked you up?
1:09:07What's that?
1:09:11Every time I ask that question, seems
1:09:13like you don't answer.
1:09:18We sat in a room, you drew out two
1:09:19people on a sketch sheet.
1:09:22Were those two people the ones that took
1:09:23you? Just say yes or no.
1:09:25I don't know. Well, you were pretty
1:09:27clear when I asked you earlier what did
1:09:29the What did the younger one do? You
1:09:31said the younger one pointed a gun at
1:09:32you.
1:09:38She wasn't. It was just James.
1:09:42James was two hours late. We have the
1:09:44rental records from 2016 for the vehicle
1:09:47that he
1:09:48used. Why?
1:09:51Because we went and looked for it
1:09:52because you told me
1:09:55Wait, that's clear that you're talking
1:09:56to him. I don't
1:09:58my fault because I didn't do the giving
1:10:00and I just dismissed We have to control
1:10:03what we can control.
1:10:07We're to the point that two that the
1:10:10younger female that you've always
1:10:11described, is she the one that put a
1:10:13pointed gun at you? Is that true or not?
1:10:17I don't know.
1:10:18You you do know. You told me earlier.
1:10:21So, earlier today when we were talking,
1:10:23I asked you what did the younger one do?
1:10:26You told me the younger one pointed a
1:10:27gun at you
1:10:28and let you go.
1:10:30That's what you said. She let me go.
1:10:33You let yourself go.
1:10:35You let yourself out of the backseat,
1:10:37never even said bye to James.
1:10:39Never a thank you, never a nothing, just
1:10:41an out. No.
1:10:42Yeah, that's what James told me. Until
1:10:45you can start telling me that James is a
1:10:46liar and start pointing things out,
1:10:49James passed a polygraph. This is my
1:10:51fault.
1:10:53My fault that I was [ __ ] doing
1:10:55that. My fault that I was playing with
1:10:57other men. It was a just stupid thing to
1:11:00do. What's that? I love my husband. I
1:11:03love my children. That's understandable.
1:11:06It's a stupid thing to do with other
1:11:07men.
1:11:07though, Sherry. Flirting with other men,
1:11:09not a crime.
1:11:12Lying to me today,
1:11:14yes, a crime.
1:11:17Big difference.
1:11:18Telling your story of what happened to
1:11:20you isn't a crime. And I know you're
1:11:22scared of what Keith is going to say and
1:11:23do, what's going to happen with you and
1:11:25your family. Those are real concerns.
1:11:28But we also need to understand the
1:11:30truth.
1:11:33And you're in the best position to give
1:11:35us that.
1:11:36You keep saying that it can't be him.
1:11:38The DNA doesn't lie. It's him.
1:11:41to.
1:11:41the opportunity for you to tell us.
1:11:43somebody. I was talking to him. I was
1:11:45talking to
1:11:46And we talked to I was talking to him
1:11:48again when his brother died.
1:11:51Okay. You said you were talking to him
1:11:53again when what? When her brother died?
1:11:55Sure.
1:11:56And that makes sense.
1:11:58The problem we have
1:11:59is the actions after the talking, after
1:12:02the flirting.
1:12:04There was a big difference between
1:12:05talking on the phone and getting in a
1:12:06car with somebody.
1:12:08So, are are you saying that James got
1:12:10two females to to kidnap you?
1:12:13Is that what you're trying to say?
1:12:18What do you mean you don't know?
1:12:19So, if James' DNA is on you,
1:12:22are you So, either either we're still
1:12:25saying the younger girl pointed a gun at
1:12:26you,
1:12:27or we're saying we don't know.
1:12:30You've already told me that today, that
1:12:31a younger girl pointed a gun at you.
1:12:33You said you didn't want her to get
1:12:34caught. So, are we still talking that
1:12:36the female let you go?
1:12:42That's where we're at.
1:12:44And and I don't know doesn't add clarity
1:12:48on simple questions, Sherry.
1:12:51A very a very easy question.
1:12:56Did James pick you up?
1:12:59You told me earlier that a girl pointed
1:13:01a gun at you. Is that Is that
1:13:03detail? Which one's true? It's only one.
1:13:06Only one of those are true, Sherry.
1:13:10You told both of them I've told one, you
1:13:12told the other.
1:13:13Which one's true?
1:13:21Does James need to go to jail for all
1:13:23this stuff
1:13:25that you asked him to do?
1:13:33I'm sorry. Nobody asked for this.
1:13:35No, nobody asked for this.
1:13:37I Sherry, I believe you.
1:13:40Nobody asked for this.
1:13:43Nobody asked for ABC News to park out in
1:13:45your driveway. There was no way you
1:13:46could have predicted that this was going
1:13:47to blow up into be as big as it was.
1:13:51Not even God thought it was going to
1:13:53turn into this big. You know when he
1:13:54first got the call, he didn't think that
1:13:56CNN and ABC and everybody was going to
1:13:58care. I'm going to find Sherry in a
1:14:00couple days cuz I I found Donovan. I
1:14:02found I found the people you were some
1:14:03of the people you were talking to. I've
1:14:05never known about your work cell phone.
1:14:07Stupid.
1:14:09But but we're beyond We're beyond that
1:14:12small discretion.
1:14:13We've talked about that discretion.
1:14:16We've talked about Donovan.
1:14:18Right? Remember?
1:14:20We talked about Donovan.
1:14:25Who picked you up? Was it James or was
1:14:27it a female that pointed a gun at you?
1:14:29Can you please answer that?
1:14:33You're shaking your head no. So
1:14:34not get I I I'm not I'm not talking to
1:14:37you about that. I'm I'm not going to get
1:14:39anybody in trouble. I've told you before
1:14:42I do not want anyone to get in trouble.
1:14:45Well, you're going to get yourself in
1:14:46trouble at this point. That's where
1:14:47we're at.
1:14:48So, either either James is lying
1:14:50anything wrong.
1:14:51I know you didn't do anything wrong.
1:14:52Right now, you're not telling the truth,
1:14:53which is doing something wrong.
1:14:55That's where we're at.
1:14:57James put himself on a polygraph.
1:15:00Talked to FBI agents. He talked with
1:15:02Peter and I for 6 hours.
1:15:04standard
1:15:06You told us everything, Sherry.
1:15:09You told us so many truths because you
1:15:12put yourself through truth
1:15:15You were truthful. You were absolutely
1:15:16right.
1:15:16want to talk about the woman.
1:15:19So, but the the woman
1:15:21You're saying that it's James. No, no.
1:15:24We're saying James' DNA was on you. We
1:15:26know you were you were in that room at
1:15:29his house. Then it was
1:15:31the woman. Then it was the woman. Well,
1:15:35okay.
1:15:36That's why we're asking you. It wasn't
1:15:37woman put a pointed gun at you and put
1:15:39you in the car, yes or no?
1:15:40Is that where we're at?
1:15:45I don't remember. You don't remember if
1:15:47a female pointed a gun at you and put
1:15:49you in the car? Is that what you're
1:15:50saying, Sherry? I've always told you I
1:15:52don't remember getting in the car. I've
1:15:54always told you I don't remember getting
1:15:57in the car. But did a female point a gun
1:15:59at you, yes or no?
1:16:04I don't remember.
1:16:06Yes or no?
1:16:08I don't remember anything. You've
1:16:09already told me that today.
1:16:11You know who she is. I know you do.
1:16:14it was always
1:16:15You know who she is. Yeah, the lady we
1:16:17showed you was the another race.
1:16:21No. I know James opened the door for
1:16:23you.
1:16:24Whether you want to forget how you got
1:16:26in the car, I'm I'm okay with that.
1:16:28But we've already You've already
1:16:29established today, that's why I asked
1:16:31you today,
1:16:33"What did the younger girl do?"
1:16:35And you said she let me go and she
1:16:37pointed a gun at me.
1:16:38We didn't talk about how you got in the
1:16:39car. Right now, I'm asking you,
1:16:42did a younger female point a gun at you?
1:16:45Yes or no?
1:16:48What?
1:16:53I know you know who she is. You're not
1:16:57I don't want her to get in trouble.
1:16:59She's not getting in trouble.
1:17:01You're getting in trouble. I am not.
1:17:03I didn't do anything. But right now,
1:17:06answer this one question.
1:17:08Did a female point a gun at you? Yes or
1:17:10no?
1:17:10I am done speaking to you until I talk
1:17:13to a lawyer. I will not arrest her. I am
1:17:17with my children because of her.
1:17:20This is just one trick.
1:17:22I don't understand.
1:17:25There is no way that Jessica loves me.
1:17:29She did love you. I agree.
1:17:33Sherry, if you want to talk to your
1:17:34attorney, that's fine. We can wrap this
1:17:35up. If you want to keep talking to us,
1:17:37that's a separate story, but you said
1:17:39you wanted to talk to your attorney, so
1:17:42from the beginning, you're free to go
1:17:43and you can go. I would ask you
1:17:46one more question just for your own
1:17:48welfare.
1:17:49Do you feel like harming yourself? My
1:17:51own welfare?
1:17:53Do you feel like harming yourself? No, I
1:17:55just want to
1:17:56hug my children and go home. Okay.
1:18:00Well, you're free to go and do that.
1:18:08If you change your mind and you want to
1:18:09come forward and talk to us.
1:18:12Oh my god, because I talked to other
1:18:14men. This cannot be.
1:18:24You might have committed certain crimes.
1:18:34Where is my husband?
1:18:36I I know. We're going to find out.
1:18:42You know what he says? I don't know.
1:18:53Keith?
1:18:53I don't
1:19:24I don't want to watch the whole video.
1:19:42All right.
1:19:43I'm an idiot husband that stayed around
1:19:45the whole time. Well, there's not.
1:19:48It's still we can't tell you a lot.
1:19:50Honestly, I don't know what I told Kelly
1:19:52to let you know.
1:19:54Some of the details, some of the stuff
1:19:55going on. I mean, I mean, from my side I
1:19:58feel like my you know my whole world's
1:19:59going to flip upside down again. What
1:20:01Why is that Why am I always getting held
1:20:02out of things? Like why can't you just
1:20:05hit me with it? What
1:20:06I didn't I told you that.
1:20:07yeah. Cuz this happened Monday.
1:20:09We're No, you're saying you can't tell
1:20:11me all this stuff. Uh it's still an
1:20:13ongoing investigation. So,
1:20:15you're not going to find out answers. I
1:20:17mean, there's
1:20:18That's the way it is.
1:20:20Can you help me again throw me a bone
1:20:22and then go make you made it up? Is that
1:20:23where we're going, right? Or is she
1:20:24trying to come up with a whole another
1:20:26We're not going to give you any
1:20:26additional details. Obviously, you've
1:20:28heard the questions, so you can read
1:20:30through some of those and understand.
1:20:32You've seen some of the photos? Yeah. So
1:20:33you know some of the investigative work
1:20:35that's been
1:20:35some of it and I was like, "Yeah, we
1:20:36talked about
1:20:37And we did. Yeah. But you can also
1:20:39notice your reaction compared to her
1:20:40reaction. Yeah. No, 100%. That's what
1:20:43I'm saying from my side, but now now
1:20:44you're telling me, "Okay, you guys can
1:20:45go home now." Well, do you think I want
1:20:47her anywhere around my kids or around me
1:20:49at all at this point? Again, we've
1:20:52talked a lot. I don't know what the next
1:20:53stages of this are. That's why It's not
1:20:55all together. I get that one. Whatever
1:20:57whatever those decisions are, I don't I
1:20:59don't know. But from a we can all agree
1:21:02that she's not all there then obviously
1:21:04if somebody can do something like that
1:21:06to their body and try to trick everybody
1:21:08that they're probably not fit to It was
1:21:094 years ago.
1:21:11We can't get into that, but I would say
1:21:13obviously we are concerned about the
1:21:14welfare. We don't want any kind of
1:21:16domestic dispute between you two.
1:21:19We also don't want
1:21:20So give me a quick legal not legal
1:21:22advice, give me a criminal. Sheriff, if
1:21:24I don't want her in my house tonight,
1:21:26what options do I have?
1:21:28You got to get a restraining orders. You
1:21:30got to get
1:21:31That's legal stuff.
1:21:35I'm not going to I'm not telling her she
1:21:36has to go to her sister's or something.
1:21:38I mean, she's not going to be in my
1:21:39house tonight and I got to call
1:21:41the next stage of this.
1:21:42Please give me the courtesy of telling
1:21:44me when you're going to announce this so
1:21:46I can not be in my home Probably
1:21:47tonight. Oh, god damn you're going
1:21:49quick.
1:21:50Well, I thought you said it's ongoing
1:21:52now.
1:21:52Well, we have to We have to talk about
1:21:54that, but
1:21:55it's going to happen quick. I actually I
1:21:57was thinking tomorrow. I was like,
1:21:58"Okay, Because you have to notify
1:21:59everybody in LA. So there's a there's a
1:22:01hornet's nest in LA.
1:22:03It only takes one person to go and then
1:22:04say, "Hey, I know what actually
1:22:05happened. I want 10 grand." And now they
1:22:08run to LA news,
1:22:10it blows up without our control.
1:22:13So and I don't know the strategy. We we
1:22:15still have to have We had to get through
1:22:17this before we can get there.
1:22:19This Did Is there anything you can tell
1:22:22me now cuz I thought you were saying you
1:22:23were going to tell me something when I
1:22:24came back in like a week?
1:22:27The person that we talked to down there
1:22:28is absolutely involved. No, I know that.
1:22:31I know that. I already gave you guys
1:22:32that guy's number, so
1:22:34I thought I thought
1:22:36So, that's that's where we're at. All
1:22:38right.
1:22:38Um
1:22:39And then what she said?
1:22:41Just ask you to be patient. Let it play
1:22:43out. I know it's going to be really
1:22:44hard, but it's also makes it easier for
1:22:46you.
1:22:47Well, the little kids aren't going to
1:22:48ask you as much as the media will. No, I
1:22:50know. And family members, your own
1:22:51family members. And you can look them in
1:22:52the straight face and say, "Look,
1:22:53they're not telling me yet."
1:22:55But like, you know, I'm kind of right
1:22:57now. I'm like, "Well, [ __ ] You guys can
1:22:58give it right to me now." So, I don't
1:22:59even want to be in my car right now. I
1:23:00don't know what kills me. That's what
1:23:02you told me.
1:23:03That what kills me. I'm going to see if
1:23:05we can arrange for her to get there at
1:23:06that time.
1:23:07Cuz I need I need to make some phone If
1:23:09I mean, if you're going to release it
1:23:09that soon, I'd like to call people.
1:23:11I don't want to have it. I can call you
1:23:13today.
1:23:13I'm going to go from this to another
1:23:15meeting. And then that meeting will lead
1:23:16to another meeting. And then that
1:23:17meeting will lead to another meeting.
1:23:19And then
1:23:20then we'll be figuring stuff out.
1:23:22Are you saying you want us to help you
1:23:23with transport for her? I mean I mean I
1:23:25don't think I'm I mean, I you got to
1:23:26give me a couple So, I thought you guys
1:23:27were going to call me back in here with
1:23:28her. Well, she has to leave, so Okay.
1:23:31She's free to leave if she wants. So, I
1:23:33think we'll
1:23:34talk and I'm going to
1:23:36we'll probably
1:23:37She's probably not going to talk in
1:23:38here, so we'll probably go out to the
1:23:39car and then I'll be like, "I'm not
1:23:40going anywhere with you until I Do you
1:23:42guys want to talk in the car and then
1:23:43come back up and tell us what you need
1:23:44assistance Let us know. You have my
1:23:46number. I appreciate that.
1:23:50I think I'm handling pretty good. I
1:23:50ain't punching walls or nothing. I'm
1:23:52just We We appreciate that. I'm in
1:23:54shock.
1:23:56Okay.
1:23:58All right. Thank you.

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