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Was Darlie Routier deceptive ? Peter Hyatt joins us to analyze her 911 Call. — Transcript

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0:00we're live right now hello everyone
0:04hello everybody we have a special guest
0:08if you guys know mr hyatt mr peter hyatt
0:12and um if you don't i'll do the
0:15introductions
0:17so um he's a statement analyst and an
0:21instructor
0:22he teaches statement analysis to law
0:25enforcement in corporate america
0:27and he's nationally recognized as an
0:30expert in deception
0:32and detection and he's done cases like
0:35he's really famous for the mccann case
0:38right mr hyatt
0:40that was the one that surprised me a bit
0:41yes so he's known for that case and
0:44recently he's even done
0:46the summer wells case and he even did uh
0:49nk
0:50a nicole kessinger i got that one mr
0:53hyatt
0:53from the um chris you know from chris
0:55watts we're all familiar with that
0:57he's done the ramsey case and um
1:00he's here with us giving us his precious
1:02time this week's really hectic for him
1:04and
1:04we really appreciate him being here
1:06because
1:07he's really busy this week
1:11so take it away you want to oh so
1:13darling so
1:14for those of you guys who don't know who
1:16darley routiers i know a lot of people
1:18don't
1:19tiff do you want to give uh a thing
1:22about how
1:23what happened with darley or who she is
1:24or why she's why we're talking about her
1:27people that don't know
1:28i mean you can or do you want me to you
1:30do it you want me to do it okay
1:32well so darla routine she's currently on
1:35death row
1:36right now and has been since well it
1:38happened in 1996
1:40she um got convicted of
1:44stabbing her two boys um
1:48there's a lot of controversy there's a
1:50lot of people that think that she didn't
1:51do it she still
1:52says that she's innocent she still um
1:55says she has nothing to do with it
1:56she's innocent um she's out of her
1:59appeals right now
2:00so you know what that means like when
2:02you're on death row and you're out of
2:03your appeals
2:04uh it's only a matter of time that she's
2:05gonna get her date for execution so
2:08um i know the innocence project took on
2:09her case uh
2:11so i don't know how long they take or
2:14what's gonna happen with that but yeah
2:15she got convicted
2:16in 1996 um i don't know i'm not very
2:19good at this
2:19novella is there anything else i need so
2:22she she was convicted of
2:25killing one of her boys because it got
2:27her the death penalty
2:28and that was damon who was the youngest
2:31and
2:31um she's convicted of killing him but
2:35she is in prison for killing basically
2:38both of her boys
2:39devin and damon and they were
2:42it was uh june 6th 1996.
2:46she's on her last appeal and she was
2:48only 26 years old
2:50she was i mean young um it's a very
2:53interesting case
2:54but i mean you have very passionate
2:57people on both sides that think she's
2:59innocent and think she's guilty so
3:03mr why start off by telling us why
3:069-1-1 calls are so important in
3:09statement
3:10analysis 9-1-1 calls
3:14are realistically the first interview
3:17that takes place
3:19they're calling law enforcement and the
3:21information is
3:23um not technically but it's a type of
3:25excited utterance where
3:27someone is in distress and that's our
3:30presupposition
3:31and the information that comes from them
3:33is is often very reliable
3:36and this particular one that we're going
3:40to hear
3:43is a little bit embarrassing for me a
3:44little bit comical the
3:46how it all started for me
3:49[Music]
3:52i grew up as a news hound my older
3:54brother listened to in new york
3:56newsradio 88 a.m radio 24 hours ago
4:00gay news and i got hooked on as a kid
4:03so i i basically been up on cases
4:06since i was a boy and i've always been a
4:09new sound
4:11what happened was someone sent me this
4:13transcript
4:14this is about 10 years ago and i hadn't
4:17heard of the case
4:19i didn't look up the case but i do so
4:20many 911 calls i just started to analyze
4:22this
4:23911 call and it surprised me
4:26so when i came to my conclusion i sent
4:29it to the
4:30um the local police department that had
4:33been
4:34uh charged with investigating darley
4:38and i thought i was doing them a favor
4:40of some form
4:41and uh the hosting captain was very
4:44gracious and i ended up with a
4:45professional relationship with him later
4:48but he was gracious and thanked me and
4:50said maybe it can be used for the
4:51appeal if necessary and i
4:55said well i didn't know that it had been
4:57adjudicated i had not heard of it
4:59so i didn't know about some of the
5:00things that went on in terms of
5:02what people point to behavioral analysis
5:05the silly string at the
5:06memorial uh her mental health issues i
5:09don't know anything about
5:10that to me it was a cold 9-1-1 call that
5:12took me on a strange path
5:13so it should be interesting to look at
5:16the um
5:17those who believe that she's innocent
5:20i'm not here to convince them
5:21otherwise i'm here to show them how we
5:24enter into
5:25this type of analysis and why being
5:28open-minded is so critical
5:32love that yes i love that too yeah um
5:36all right well should i play it guys or
5:39yeah play we're gonna play the 901 call
5:42to bring everyone
5:43up to speed about what we're talking
5:45about and then we will put up the
5:47transcript so you guys can see the words
5:50because this is a statement analysis i'm
5:52actually going to put it up as it's
5:54going i'm going to scroll through them
5:55as
5:55as we're playing i'm going to so yeah
5:58we'll do both
5:59okay but then i'll put it up after all
6:01right so hold on one second let me get
6:03everyone in chat ready to hear
6:06darley do her 9-1-1 it is kind of
6:08gut-wrenching because of the way
6:10but in statement analysis peter correct
6:13me if i'm wrong
6:14no one listens to the inflection or the
6:16tone it's just the words that are spoken
6:19right
6:20correct we do this step by step and when
6:23we're
6:24analyzing a case we'll eventually get to
6:25the different parts and evidence and
6:27that sort of thing but the first thing
6:28we're going to do
6:29is we're going to listen to her call
6:32we're going to go with the reception of
6:34the
6:35perceptional thinking presuppositional
6:37thinking
6:38that she is an innocent victim
6:42okay that's not a moral or an ethical
6:45position it's a position that's used to
6:48detect deception
6:50so what happens is we must go into this
6:53and so
6:54in that sense we're not terribly
6:55completely open-minded
6:57we have some influence but we begin with
7:00the stance that
7:01she's an innocent victim she's going to
7:03ask for help
7:04to save her son's lives
7:08she would have to talk us out of that to
7:10conclude deception
7:12okay okay i like it i like that yeah me
7:15too
7:16it's a confrontational process so um
7:19this should go very smoothly we
7:21shouldn't be confronted by anything
7:23if anything causes us to pause and gains
7:26our attention and confronts us
7:28that we're not expecting then we're
7:31going to examine it
7:33okay all right um let me share my screen
7:36here and then
7:38all right
8:15what's going on
9:045801 eagles
9:12[Music]
9:26[Applause]
9:35i can understand you you're going to
9:36have to slow down calm down and talk to
9:38me
9:39what is going on somebody cleaning
9:43me my little boys
10:01oh my god
10:16ma'am
10:21[Music]
10:29how many little boys
10:38listen to me
10:58oh
11:08oh my god oh my god
11:28you don't know who this is
11:54there's a knife
12:22huh
12:36why would they do this okay listen ma'am
12:40[ __ ] you need to let the officers in
12:42the front door okay
12:44what ma'am they collect the
12:47police officers in the front door
12:50playing over there okay it's all right
12:54it's okay
13:19is the police officer there okay go talk
13:21to him okay
13:24yes that's okay
13:32okay
13:36very emotional yeah
13:39but yeah wow all right
13:42i'm so interested to see what what you
13:44have to say about this
13:45um do you want me to put the the
13:47transcripts on the screen right now
13:48peter
13:49are the correct transcripts just clean
13:51without any notes
13:52there's no notes no yeah that'd be great
13:56oh wait i've done the wrong thing okay
14:04yeah i wouldn't say that these are no
14:06notes they're just okay so let's go
14:07i'll start at the beginning right here
14:09okay here's the beginning of it
14:11can you see now let me see if i make any
14:15larger
14:18let me see if i can make it any bigger
14:20that's about as
14:21big well see it cuts it off then um
14:24that's okay
14:25little by little close the audience and
14:27see it clearly i have another copy here
14:29too
14:30okay okay so
14:33uh that's i think that's the first time
14:35that i heard
14:36her voice i don't think i've ever
14:38answered
14:39and this was about 10 years ago when i
14:41did it
14:44and i wasn't
14:47i didn't know what i was looking for in
14:49the analysis and generally a 911 call
14:52we have our expectations and a five
14:54minute call may take about six hours to
14:56analyze
14:58very carefully the words that someone
14:59chooses
15:01but we begin with the presumption of
15:02innocence not judicial innocence but de
15:04facto
15:05that she didn't do this and that's
15:08always where we start
15:11even employment analysis will say we're
15:13hiring this person
15:15unless they give us a reason not to
15:17we'll begin with that so that we're
15:19confronted with something that we
15:20weren't expecting
15:22so um a mother's reporting that an
15:25intruder
15:27stabbed her children herself
15:30so we have an expectation of an assault
15:33where
15:33a maternal instinct is going to be in
15:35play and that
15:38she's going to be asking for help either
15:40for the building directly
15:43or if she's giving cpr or she's trying
15:46to
15:46address a wound guidance for herself
15:50in every 911 are given one of generally
15:55one of two impressions
15:57impression one is that the person is
15:59working to help facilitate the flow of
16:01information
16:02to law enforcement number two
16:05the person is not the person is not
16:09and that's when we begin to look at
16:11various little features within a 911
16:13call
16:14for instance some 911 calls may start
16:16with the an emergency but may start with
16:18the word hello
16:20and that's something we don't expect we
16:21expect the person to go right to us
16:24and we also ask if you were a mother
16:28of two little children who had just been
16:30stabbed
16:32what's the first thing that you would
16:33say
16:35and we ask people just to consider that
16:37just to think about it
16:40someone will always say inevitably this
16:41is a quote from
16:43cindy anthony where she talked about her
16:46daughter
16:47no one really knows how they'll react
16:48when their child goes missing
16:51as a matter of fact we do we do know how
16:53people react we know
16:54how innocent people sound and we know
16:56how guilty people sound because we have
16:57so many of them
17:00so we go through a lot of 911 calls
17:03generally speaking and training analysts
17:04become very good at it
17:07they can often solve a case right from
17:09the very beginning
17:11and what i mean by all the cases to know
17:13the conclusion of the matter it still
17:15has to be proven in terms of court
17:18it's not admissible in court to say your
17:20honor uh hey
17:22you heard the pronoun that's it
17:26the the on the boots investigators have
17:29to put together the evidence
17:31but this it's a wonderful marvelous
17:32shortcut so instead of doing a dragnet
17:35of
17:35possible suspects everywhere we start
17:38right here
17:39and this is how it works also with
17:40missing children so first thing i'd like
17:42to
17:43look at is what what is the first thing
17:45that came out of darlee's mouth
17:49and the question is what is your
17:50emergency
17:52and that's a really good question to ask
17:54because
17:56it's expected it doesn't influence her
17:59language
18:00it allows her to speak her own words
18:03and it also allows her to tell us when
18:06this thing started
18:08so the expectation of a mother
18:11in maternal instincts is going to be
18:16my children are stabbed my children are
18:20bleeding
18:21someone just did this to me that sort of
18:23thing a man broke in
18:26instead of my children something along
18:29those lines where that would be the
18:30priority because the order of what
18:32someone speaks
18:33indicates their priority
18:36um do you remember a case in florida
18:38years ago
18:40of a little girl that was being based at
18:43by her father's girlfriend
18:45and she went missing and the girlfriend
18:48called one-on-one and she said
18:50uh hello i was just sleeping
18:53and someone opened the door
18:56[Music]
18:58and the child is missing
19:01so we looked at the priority of that
19:03where
19:05she wants police to know
19:08that she was asleep but she couldn't
19:11have any part of it
19:12she's setting up her alibi before giving
19:15the info
19:16exactly exactly so let's take a look at
19:20what
19:20darley said somebody came in
19:24here they broke in
19:27they just stabbed me and my children
19:32so it's rather unexpected that the
19:36children would be the fourth priority
19:37listed
19:39when she speaks in this way the
19:42emergency is my kids bloom right here
19:45my babies and i i certainly don't mind
19:47that change of language where
19:48they become babies because a mother will
19:52see them that way
19:53when they're in danger that's that's
19:55expected that's natural and normal
19:57so we look for the parental instincts to
19:59kick in even under the emergency setting
20:02and we look for her to go right to the
20:05truth of the matter
20:06of what's most on her mind so the first
20:09thing i will note is that
20:11somebody came in here now somebody
20:14is gender neutral
20:18when we have experiential memory
20:21it gets really rough um we can remember
20:24a sound where the sound's breath smelled
20:27or
20:27if the hands were dirty it's such a
20:29sensory thing that happens
20:31um some man put his hands on my kids
20:37that's going to light up both mother and
20:39father
20:40we call those things events of hormonal
20:43consequence in other words they're
20:44accompanied by
20:46um an increase a rise of hormones
20:51and it leaves an imprint this is of
20:53course where we are able to see the
20:54damage of ptsd upon someone
20:57that is terrible but it's it's an event
21:00that will be remembered
21:03um years ago i had a case where
21:08a man came home from work and he found
21:10his girlfriend
21:11and her six-year-old son dead in bed
21:15and what he said was
21:20two people just killed themselves in my
21:23house
21:26he's actually assigning murder to both
21:29his girlfriend
21:30and the six-year-old boy
21:35and that was the first thing i noted
21:36that this was yeah this was this was
21:38trouble and
21:39so i was able to conclude that the
21:41caller
21:42the 911 caller who had passed his
21:44polygraph
21:46was deceptive and was actually the
21:48killer
21:49and then years later he was convicted of
21:52it after being initially cleared
21:54so people will tell us what they mean
21:58they'll they'll choose the words and
22:02especially under an emergency situation
22:04without pause or thought if they have
22:07some kind of pre-vote then we're
22:08wondering about
22:09being scripted even with screaming and
22:11yelling
22:13it's just a natural explosion of
22:16emotional words that are laser focused
22:19on getting those kids help
22:21and that's my expectation but what i
22:24have is
22:26somebody came here somebody is gender
22:29neutral
22:30so first thing i notice is not a man
22:34because seeing a man stab the kids
22:38but especially then the man stabs her
22:40that's very personal
22:41that's what i mean by personal is that
22:43it's intrusive in one's
22:45own safety zone
22:48so an assault is always personal
22:52unless it was something where rocks were
22:54thrown from far away
22:55or something like that this was
22:58someone did this to me and that someone
23:02she should know the gender so i'm gonna
23:04keep an eye on that i don't i don't like
23:06that this came in but
23:07i would like to excuse anything she says
23:10if i can if i can discount anything
23:14say oh well maybe she thought this or
23:15maybe she thought that
23:17or she was so upset she wasn't thinking
23:18that sort of thing
23:20if i can do that wherever i can and she
23:23still
23:24talks me into the position of that she's
23:27deceiving
23:28that's where we're going to land so what
23:31i found myself doing in the first line
23:32of this
23:34um was what we call anonymous author
23:38identification
23:40anonymous author identification work is
23:43is advanced and it's complicated
23:45it's fascinating it's crazy fascinating
23:47and it's very rewarding so we
23:51work as a team i work with some terrific
23:54professionals
23:56on identifying an anonymous author who
23:59sends a threatening letter
24:00for example like the ramsey
24:04case yeah that would be that's a good
24:06example
24:07and we're looking for um or like that
24:10some of the hate crimes
24:12letters i did one from lyndon harris new
24:15york
24:15a couple years ago that
24:19made the news that the kkk was rising in
24:22long island
24:24and that they were telling the black
24:26family to leave the neighborhood
24:28and it started off dear african-american
24:31family
24:33i said generally the kkk is not that
24:36polite
24:39right and that that proved that it was
24:42and you know my conclusion was
24:45the someone from inside the house wrote
24:47the letter it's a fake
24:49and that to be true and we get a lot of
24:52those
24:53so we look for the background of the
24:56author
24:58the experiences the author may have been
25:00through
25:01um the dominant personality traits of an
25:04author
25:06and what the author wants a priority
25:09generally speaking if someone receives
25:11a threatening letter we can identify
25:14successfully
25:1570 of the characteristics
25:18they're going to know who did it they're
25:20going to know
25:21so what i was looking for here was a
25:25a critical point that we have when we're
25:27trying to identify someone
25:29it's called linguistic disposition
25:32what this is is let's say that you start
25:34off by saying
25:36hi peter welcome to to my show by the
25:38way i really love pizza so that's nice
25:43why'd you like pizza later on you
25:45started talking about
25:46different cheeses and the pepperoni and
25:49different
25:50cities that you go to just to have the
25:51pizza
25:53by claiming that you like pizza we take
25:56that as an open statement
25:58on its own merit but later on you spoke
26:01about pizza
26:04and your disposition through the words
26:07was very positive towards pizza
26:10you're telling the truth you really like
26:13your pizza
26:17how would you feel as a mother
26:21of a man who stabbed your children and
26:23yourself
26:28exactly you would you the
26:31rage and anger would almost blind you
26:35the the mother bed would come out with
26:36the claws and
26:38so we look at the linguistic disposition
26:40and i'm going to ask the question of the
26:42audience
26:42to consider this what is
26:46the bowler darley what is her linguistic
26:49disposition
26:51towards the killer
26:55and this is the strange thing that
26:57happens with the anonymous author work
26:58is that in masking
27:03an identity you know i don't want to be
27:04caught so i'm going to mask my identity
27:06even while trying to mask the identity
27:08in an anonymous letter
27:12the author comes out the author reveals
27:15himself herself or even more than one
27:17person
27:19we did one um i think it was a jersey
27:23where the it's starting off with hey yo
27:26yo yo
27:28what's up bro you know and he said okay
27:31there's a white guy
27:35another one another one we see is
27:40we are one of many and we are willing to
27:43go out and go public
27:45all of us together and we have an over
27:47emphasis on plural means the person's
27:49alone
27:50um we are a small foreign faction
27:54they formed us don't call themselves
27:56foreigners when they're here
27:59that was indication that it wasn't a
28:01faction and what they weren't foreigners
28:04what we don't find is we don't find
28:06double masking
28:08for whatever reason and i think it's
28:11self-preservation
28:13when someone's writing an anonymous
28:15letter they don't want to reveal
28:17themselves they don't want the the scent
28:20to come close so
28:24a male may pretend to be a female a
28:27white person may
28:28pretend to be black someone who's
28:31working alone
28:32pretends to be in a group in the dear
28:35african-american family
28:38letter the very polite
28:41[Music]
28:43the author who worked alone made it
28:46sound as if
28:47uh it was a community
28:50and lyndon hearst is a mixed community
28:52so it was kind of silly in that sense
28:53too
28:54and there was some mental health issues
28:56that went on there so i'm looking for
28:58dolly's
29:01linguistic disposition towards
29:05the killer so the first thing i notice
29:09is that
29:10someone came in here someone is
29:13generally
29:13uh gender neutral but i'm just she just
29:17gives artists
29:18i'm gonna let that pass okay
29:21it should it should become a man because
29:23it was a man with physical strength
29:25with adrenaline the intrusive nature of
29:30someone in your home
29:31who is doing violence is shocking and
29:34you're going to remember his gender
29:37they broke in so now you ask
29:41is it more than one because it's they is
29:44plural
29:46now this was a very personal attack that
29:48my assumption
29:50meaning that she was literally stabbed
29:53herself
29:54and her children her own children were
29:57stabbed by this man
29:59he's not a they they is used
30:02when it's singular to conceal the gender
30:05again
30:07so i looked at the first line i said
30:09what is she doing
30:10does she know who the intruder is
30:14when i had finished the analysis i was
30:16pretty proud of it i thought i did a
30:17great job on it
30:18and there was sending it to the police
30:20department like oh yeah this
30:22adjudicated years ago no surprise here
30:26but that's how i needed it what was that
30:28like 2000
30:302011 you sent it in somewhere around
30:34there
30:37almost 10 years ago so it was um it was
30:39embarrassing
30:43and the recipient the hosting captain
30:45was a good sport about it and
30:47later on he had me do other work i think
30:50he does fine work
30:52these days differently now
30:56but i didn't know i didn't i hadn't
30:58heard of this case and i
30:59i came to this communication listen i
31:01don't know if you guys realize this but
31:04she knows who the killer is
31:07and she really likes the killer oh
31:10i want to hear about that part when you
31:12get to that i mean
31:13she really likes it okay she has a
31:16positive linguistic disposition towards
31:18the killer
31:20hmm so couldn't mr hyatt so like
31:24the first sentence being somebody came
31:27here
31:27they broke in could it also be
31:31you're assigning they because you don't
31:34know if it's a man
31:35or a woman sure except that
31:39she was stabbed herself by him so now
31:42you know
31:43yes you should know of course but this
31:46is just beginning we're letting it
31:47unfold
31:48naturally to us and so that's a good
31:50point that at this point we don't know
31:52that
31:53so at this point we better assume
31:54because pronouns are instinctive
31:57okay they predate even human speech
32:00in english language
32:04little babies will say my even with
32:07their hands
32:08before they can speak so no matter what
32:11politicians may say or do or levy fines
32:14or anything like that
32:15have as you perceive someone you will
32:19instinctively use that pronoun
32:21we don't stop to think should i say i
32:24or we because was i alone or was i with
32:27someone else we know instinctively
32:29right like that they're always
32:32reliable for detecting deception if
32:35there's
32:36one thing that anyone could learn to do
32:38well in terms of detecting deception
32:40is to follow the pronouns follow the
32:43pronouns
32:44so we hear that a lot too and also um
32:48behavioral analysis there's a lot a lot
32:50of emphasis put on pronouns
32:52and change of pronouns throughout
32:55speaking okay now the political movement
32:58that has
33:00you know people listing their preferred
33:01pronouns and when they introduce
33:03themselves
33:04um it'll pass you know if you live long
33:07enough you see these things come and go
33:09and trends
33:10because you can't break that instinct
33:12right
33:13so if i say to you you know i'm
33:15identifying as a female you're going to
33:17slip
33:17no matter how hard you try you're going
33:18to have to pause and really be careful
33:20and
33:20you're really worried about offending me
33:22eventually you're going to slip
33:24because you perceive me as a male
33:27and it's not meant to be disrespectful
33:29to anyone especially someone
33:31is struggling with mental health issues
33:34it is something that politicians should
33:36stay out of like everything else in life
33:40because it it's going to trouble people
33:43but this i believe this will pass
33:45and will be done with the the silliness
33:48of it and we'll go on
33:49to find something else silly to cling to
33:51but
33:52this won't change the pronouns won't
33:54change so it would go strictly by what
33:56she said somebody is gender neutral
33:59okay and they is plural
34:02and i i'm going on presupposition i
34:04believe her and her words are going to
34:06guide me
34:07okay now um in behavioral analysis we
34:11it meshes very well with um
34:14statement analysis is we use
34:17we look at the word we in rape
34:19statements
34:21once that that female has been raped
34:24the word is ejected from her vocabulary
34:28unless something else has taken place
34:30it's a very rare exception and
34:32the exception itself will be justified
34:35if the word we
34:36enters after the sexual assault
34:39she's lying she's uniting herself
34:43with a rapist wow that's interesting
34:46yeah
34:52you can take a peek at some of the bill
34:54cosby accusers
34:57mr cosby and later on bill
35:00and bill and i we went to this place and
35:03we did this we did that
35:05as soon as the sexual assault took place
35:08we is gone
35:09bill is gone and he's cosby or him
35:13because she has an instinctive reaction
35:15to get away from her assailant
35:17it's that type of intrusive violent
35:19crime even if she's
35:20uh been sedated medicated
35:24drugged it's still an intrusion
35:27right into her body and there is no
35:30unity
35:31because we chose unity there's no unity
35:33between
35:35a rapist and a victim
35:38right you want to get as far away from
35:39that as possible
35:41and that will show the language that's
35:43so interesting
35:45it will come up in the language so when
35:47we look at that
35:50we did one a hollywood case of some
35:54form where the victim was blamed for
35:58sleeping over after the rape how could
36:01she sleep over after the rape
36:04and the wheel was ejected there was no
36:06more weed between her and him
36:08and we sleep in bed she didn't sleep in
36:11the bed
36:12she slept on the bed
36:15she was probably paralyzed by fear
36:18she didn't sleep with him and she didn't
36:20sleep in his bed
36:22but on them she was telling the truth
36:25so we're able to follow the pronouns and
36:28oftentimes
36:30show a victim who've been battered
36:33who likely has a history and some do
36:36where they put themselves in
36:38harm's way for whatever reason
36:41but it doesn't mean they're lying
36:44they've got to be heard we've got to
36:46listen to the language
36:48it's it's a very personal upfront and
36:51close
36:52intrusion and the language will reflect
36:55that
36:56when it doesn't reflect that something
36:57is wrong
36:59so how many sorry go ahead i'm sorry no
37:02please
37:04i just wanted to know how many um
37:07statement
37:08analysts there are in the u.s because
37:11anyone could like
37:12look at a couple of your videos and
37:14think they know what they're doing right
37:16but there's oh my god it'd be a very
37:18small handful of you guys who are
37:20so that are so well versed and have so
37:23many years under your belt
37:25well i think what makes us different as
37:27a team and this is
37:29united states canada western europe
37:32australia new zealand
37:33south africa russia all different
37:37professions in those grant walks
37:38is besides formal training which is
37:42vital i think the most beneficial thing
37:45that i've ever done
37:46is team analysis it's where
37:50um you may bring something into the team
37:52analysis training that i don't have you
37:55first of all you're a female i'm a male
37:57when we do anonymous author
37:59identification
38:00we've got to report to the people
38:01whether the you know the recipient
38:04whether the writer is a male or female
38:08and we speak differently um
38:11neuroscience 101 about eight or nine
38:14weeks
38:15uh pre-born the hormonal levels are
38:18different
38:19and they're different forever the child
38:22is changed in development so
38:24it's like settled by eight or nine weeks
38:25that we know of now thus far science was
38:28i think we'll probably
38:29make more headlines and go deeper with
38:31that
38:32as time goes on but we think and we
38:35perceive differently
38:37so when we work on an anonymous author
38:40identification
38:41there's always female and male analysts
38:43working together
38:44always it's that
38:48vital that we're able to do such a thing
38:49and identify because
38:51if politics gets involved for example
38:54someone sent a letter bomb excuse me a
38:57letter
38:57saying we're going to bomb your house
39:00and so you turned to someone like me
39:02and said can you and your team tell us
39:04who did this
39:05so we go if we analyze it and it's quite
39:07a wrestling match
39:08it's um it's fascinating work very
39:11difficult work
39:13and we came back we say we've got some
39:15good news and bad news
39:17good news is that we can identify
39:20enough of the writer that you'll likely
39:23know who the writer is and we can save
39:25your family
39:26the bad news is we're not going to tell
39:28you because that would be sexist
39:31really we don't want to be accused of
39:33being sexist by saying it's a male
39:35voice or female voice you know in in the
39:38language
39:40yeah it's ridiculous and that's
39:42sometimes what people are up against
39:44and especially younger people with the
39:47cultural shifting
39:49yeah wow and that's been something
39:51that's
39:52new that's been happening yes what like
39:5410 years 20 years
39:56something um i've only seen it
40:01connected emotionally within the last
40:04five
40:04ten years maybe even just the last five
40:06years mostly
40:08um in law enforcement
40:11um any type and this is a general
40:14statement any type of
40:18belief in a higher morality of
40:20withholding information gets scrubbed
40:22off them when they go out into the
40:23street in danger
40:26even in rural america when a traffic
40:28stop is still a danger because the
40:29expectation is lower
40:31and i think sometimes
40:35police officers that are in training for
40:37deception detection
40:39i think they don't treasure the time
40:42in traffic
40:45when they were interviewing people
40:47constantly under some kind of tense
40:49situations
40:51it is invaluable for their knowledge but
40:53they they deal with threat
40:55all the time they don't have time for
40:58the type of platitudes that say well let
41:00me you know honor a politician here by
41:02being politically correct they have to
41:04be realists
41:06they have to make a difference and save
41:08lives they don't have the luxury of
41:10sitting back and saying no i'm sorry we
41:11can't help you i don't want to make a
41:12judgment on that
41:14we have different talents we have
41:16different things that we bring
41:18and that's why we won't as a team we
41:20won't do it
41:22at least when we we do our best to have
41:25it um
41:26but both sex is present it's just it's
41:29just too valuable to miss on and too
41:31much is on the line for it
41:34i didn't even take that into
41:36consideration that
41:37in a situation like that you would have
41:39to be kind of more pc about it when you
41:42know
41:42that's yeah they don't they don't have
41:45the luxury of being pc
41:46we did a training in europe where um
41:50i mean these kids i called them kids
41:51because they were much younger than me
41:53but they're brilliant brilliant oxford
41:57post grads
41:58and a couple of them were not able to
42:01get past
42:02the exercise on identifying anonymous
42:04author because they believed that
42:07the sex of the writer
42:10was made up of social construct
42:16and so it's like like an emotional
42:18offense that just stops
42:20yeah like a block yeah
42:23and we need to know whoever came into
42:26darling was it a male or female we need
42:28to know
42:29we want to identify the person we want
42:31we want justice for the
42:33those boys we want justice for darwin
42:36right
42:36so the pronouns are instinctive they
42:39will
42:41you can't fault someone from this
42:43pronoun and someone
42:44when they're speaking freely and i do
42:48believe this this thing will
42:49will pass this so somebody came here
42:54okay stab my babies
42:57she pauses even further for more
43:00information
43:01they broke in now if your children are
43:04bleeding you want to get to that
43:06this is an unnecessary step so i have
43:09somebody
43:10gender neutral i have they plural
43:15and the break-in is a new information
43:19going on and they just
43:22stabbed me just being
43:26a comparative word a dependent word
43:28having to do often times with time
43:30and timing and the last thing that she's
43:33going to tell them
43:34is
43:38they
43:41stab my children that me and my children
43:45so the priorities has got my attention
43:49the pronouns have my attention and i'm
43:51asking at this point hey what's going on
43:53here
43:55does she know this person is is it was
43:58it multiple
43:59people came in um
44:02but she's taking a while to get to the
44:04kids
44:05why is that and we leave these things
44:08what we do is we throw questions at them
44:11without seeking answers from ourselves
44:15what we're looking for is for darley to
44:17guide us to those answers
44:20the answers are in the statement we need
44:22to listen to her
44:24we need to believe her and let her guide
44:25her we need to let her words
44:28teach us i trust the language i trust
44:32the words
44:33to guide us so that was the the priority
44:36that i noted
44:38by the gender neutral i had the plural
44:41i have a slow a sight slowing down to
44:44the pace
44:45with the additional information of
44:47breaking in generally speaking people
44:49will go
44:50right to the issue my kids are bleeding
44:54no matter how hysterical they are that's
44:56their laser focused on
44:57saving those kids lives but
45:02she was first before them that's unusual
45:04for a mother but
45:05i'm not going to my hat on a single
45:07point you're there
45:08i need to to accumulate over time okay
45:13but then the operator said what because
45:15it's a shocking thing and
45:16obviously now with the when you're
45:17hearing the voice inflection you're
45:20hearing someone that is
45:21hysterical which is to be expected
45:25they just stabbed me and my kids
45:28my little boys so
45:32they is repeated so in following her
45:35language and believing her
45:36there's more than one assailant
45:40that makes sense to everybody yeah
45:43everyone in chat is
45:44are we making sense
45:48they'll let us know it's always yeah
45:49yeah they just some like they pointed
45:51out how
45:52she chose to say me before her children
45:55like they stabbed me and my children so
45:56a lot of people are like well yeah why
45:58did she say me first before her children
46:00so it's it is her priority
46:04and that's that's what we accept that in
46:06statement analysis we're not
46:08reinterpreting her words to mean
46:10something that we think it means
46:12just because it wouldn't be our priority
46:14would be our kids
46:16and if you if you listen to 9-1-1 calls
46:18you look at the transcripts and analyze
46:20them
46:20of home invasions you'll see the
46:23priority always comes out
46:26and generally it's the victim not here
46:29though
46:30she's ahead of the children so good
46:31observation by the audience
46:34then she said they just stabbed me and
46:36my kids my little boys
46:38so i'm going to follow our rules
46:42and say they is plural
46:46if they're not plural something is wrong
46:50but i'm going to believe her i'm going
46:51to trust her to guide me
46:54so there's more than one assailant it's
46:56they
47:01so the operator is obviously a bit
47:02stunned here and it's shocking
47:04information
47:04who did and charlie said my little boy
47:08is dying
47:10so the operator is asking who did this
47:13she doesn't answer
47:14and if you if someone says well she's
47:17just so upset she wasn't listening okay
47:19i'll take that too
47:20so we'll dismiss that or at least reduce
47:22it in our minds because
47:23again we're not trying to get something
47:26to fit
47:27our belief here we need ourselves to fit
47:29into what the truth is
47:31whatever it may be but she didn't answer
47:34the question
47:36and i really want her to do that because
47:38it's important to identify
47:40not only what your boys need in terms of
47:41immediate
47:43first aid help but we got to catch a
47:45killer
47:46excuse me the killer is plural right
47:48here
47:50we've got to catch them on some of the
47:52fake
47:539-1-1 calls where they talk about
47:55assailants that didn't exist
47:58um sometimes they'll describe the
48:00assailant's
48:01action as incredibly cruel
48:05but then they they show no concern about
48:07the assailant or assailants being caught
48:12and if you have your house broken into
48:15and someone did something horrible to
48:16you
48:17you are going to be scared out of their
48:18mind they're coming back you must cast
48:21them
48:23so i'm looking for that as well and
48:26darling i said oh my god
48:27my babies are dying
48:30now this was a little bit also
48:32surprising because she was
48:34just her words stabbed herself
48:38and mothers generally have
48:43a type of resistance
48:46a type of denial this is not something
48:49that
48:50they can accept early when a child goes
48:52missing and a mother begins to speak of
48:54the child of the past tense the mother
48:56is telling us she knows or believes the
48:57child is dead
48:59because of the natural resistance that's
49:01not something they allow for
49:04um so the first thing we ask is did
49:06police tell that mother
49:08something so jarring so horrible
49:12and true that she's quickly accepting
49:17even in those cases we find mothers in
49:19denial it's like taking a dead baby
49:21handing it to the mother
49:22and the mother starts to rub the baby
49:25get the baby warm
49:26like a natural maternal protective
49:30capacity to nurture and keep safe
49:33keep alive so i was concerned here
49:36so quickly that he's willing to say
49:39they're dying
49:41where is the denial where is the
49:44resistance
49:45peter could it be though that let's say
49:47she's saying
49:49she's saying it to get them to get to
49:51her faster
49:52like my babies are dying to get the
49:55uh ambulance there faster sure
49:58i think that's a great point it's one of
50:00the things that we do in team analysis
50:02is called pushback
50:03and you can do it when you're alone that
50:05works better when you're with others
50:07is every point that's made every
50:10principle that's raised and we see it
50:12push back against it and try to excuse
50:15it
50:16okay yeah so that's a great point and
50:18and please feel free to do that all
50:21all of them because if you can
50:22successfully push back then we can
50:24we are going to conclude either she
50:26didn't do it
50:28or we don't know an answer here
50:31she had for us to conclude deception and
50:34especially guilt
50:36guilty knowledge here we have to be
50:38certain
50:39[Music]
50:42a great point my babies are dying oh my
50:45god
50:46so one of the things we look for is
50:49an innocent caller will ask for help for
50:52the victims
50:54the exception being is if the
50:58caller is administering first aid or cpr
51:01so that's help for themselves doing what
51:04they're doing but
51:05we want to hear help ask for the babies
51:09we don't like to hear the decline of
51:12my babies are dying but i'm willing to
51:15be pushed back on that one
51:16saying well maybe she's just trying to
51:19rush the ambulance
51:26what's going on them oh my god
51:31and there's a lot of unintelligible
51:33words that go back and forth
51:35she said finally um
51:40thought he was dead this might be in the
51:41background oh my god
51:43i don't even know i'm not sure if she's
51:47saying
51:47i don't even know what's going on or i
51:49don't know if he's dead or not
51:52she's obviously an extreme upset
51:57and the opera does a good job of trying
51:59to get a hold of her and get it
52:01get it going she then says who was
52:05breathing
52:06i don't even know in the interruption
52:08who was breathing
52:10it may be an interrupted sentence i
52:11don't know since it's expected that she
52:14would know her son's identity this does
52:15not really make sense to us
52:17which one of them she was talking about
52:21but it could be also because darren's
52:23talking and we can't hear what daryn
52:25saying so is she answering darren
52:27at this point okay right that's another
52:30good point and that's not really much a
52:32pushback point but
52:32a good contextual point is that she
52:35could be going back and forth with him
52:37i want to hear the kids names i want to
52:39hear specific ones i want to hear her
52:41say
52:42how do i stop the bleeding or get here
52:45now you've got to save them you've got
52:46to stop the bleeding or something
52:48something's better
52:49like that
52:53darley said are they still lying there
52:58so that caught my attention because
53:03she references the body posture of the
53:05boys
53:07which is not something i expect unless
53:09she's describing body posture you know
53:11you have them
53:12face up or face down while you're
53:14administering cpr for example
53:19so the body posture is generally noted
53:25for tension like an increase of tension
53:27so if i if i say to my daughter
53:30do your homework or if i say sit down
53:34and do your homework
53:35it's a little more emphatic mom saying
53:37to her sit down
53:38using body posture just an increase of
53:40importance or
53:41attention there
53:44another one would be my boss told me to
53:47be at work at nine
53:49my boss stood and told me he'd work at
53:51nine
53:53so by by recalling the body posture
53:56i'm elevating the importance well when
53:59we talk about something
54:00lying we'd like to know
54:04who caused it to do that so with an
54:07inanimate object
54:09um the bag of drugs sitting on the table
54:13okay that's a human connection to an
54:15inanimate object
54:17oftentimes the speaker is the one that
54:18put it on the table because drugs don't
54:20walk over and sit down by themselves
54:23we get that with drugs we get that was
54:24stolen with a lot of things but here i'm
54:27concerned about
54:28they're dying and she's talking about
54:30the body posture
54:32so i'm just wondering and i don't know
54:35did she have any thing to do with their
54:38location
54:40it's important to her so i want
54:44rather than me guess whether she did or
54:46didn't i want her to guide you with that
54:49but i want her to tell me about the guy
54:51who did the excuse me the people that
54:52did this
54:55so she may have been talking to the
54:58husband there
55:00operators as a possible stabbing and
55:04darley said oh my god
55:08what do i do she's the mother
55:11oh my god what do i do
55:15and that could be something good where
55:17she's going to put pressure on the wound
55:19or or
55:20uh try to administer help in any way
55:22that they guided her to do so
55:24but that's not what she says
55:27she said what do we do
55:31and that is something i didn't expect to
55:33hear from a mother
55:35in extremis in this extreme situation
55:40where her children are stabbed before
55:42her they're
55:43hercules she gave birth them they're her
55:45babies
55:47so it's not a major point but just
55:49something i wasn't expecting to hear
55:52what do we do not what she herself
55:56is because in your head you're thinking
55:58she's distancing by using
56:00we instead of i because you know her
56:04husband's there at this time
56:06and he's also helping so
56:09it wouldn't be something normal to be
56:11like what do we do
56:14no not not for a good question but not
56:16for
56:17the powerful maternal instinct of the
56:20biological mother
56:22this is very personal these are her
56:24babies she birthed them
56:26okay um but i don't want to go too far
56:30and say well with ways so much there
56:33basically it is a type of distancing
56:35language
56:37sometimes called crowdsourcing guild she
56:39doesn't want to be alone
56:41with one of the most personal things
56:43that she could be with
56:45in a situation that is so extremely
56:47personal
56:48she's not the auntie she's not the
56:50grandmother
56:51even though seems to be personal she is
56:53the biological mother
56:54and she went to we i wasn't expecting
56:56that
56:59not a major point but just another one
57:01of those little building blocks is it
57:02looking at
57:07um also with the oh my god i'm not
57:10flagging her so much for using
57:12invoking deity where people get in
57:15trouble is when they invoke deity as a
57:17witness to their own words
57:20what do you mean by that um oh my god oh
57:23my god that's
57:24that's a normal reaction that anyone
57:26would have
57:27in a terrible situation you flag
57:31any use of deity god the lord jesus
57:34anything like that
57:36in 9-1-1 call especially when
57:40it has to do with their own words
57:44we don't need to hear honest to god by
57:46kids are bleeding
57:47we we don't need god to call witness to
57:50our words if our children are bleeding
57:52so i i i'm not flagging this as
57:55something
57:56extraordinary here you know the oh my
57:59god oh my god back and forth there
58:02um a little more deeper analysis is we
58:05compare
58:06times that when they're when she refers
58:08to them as babies
58:10versus um
58:13she used earlier little
58:17children yeah so we you know
58:20we try to to um let her guide us when
58:24are they kids
58:25when are they babies that sort of thing
58:28and to see if anything
58:29comes of that and she goes to um
58:34my baby's dead so we have baby
58:37associated with death before babies was
58:39associated with dying
58:41um and we note the absence of maternal
58:44denial
58:46maternal resistance is such a thing it's
58:49just not something
58:50that is found in emergencies
58:53unless the mother has processed the
58:55death already
58:57one of the points on the mccain analysis
59:00was that kate had processed
59:02that death already
59:05kate um as a mother
59:08would have
59:12changed madeleine's diaper fed metal and
59:15hungry
59:16gave her a bath cleaned her if she fell
59:20pick her up put a band-aid on her knee
59:23all those things that her mother and
59:24father would do kate would do
59:28someone now has madeline
59:31so one of the things that we expect to
59:32hear
59:34is the mother now either addressing
59:38directly or indirectly the kidnapper
59:40with madeleine's needs
59:42i'm used to doing all these things for
59:44her now you've got to do this make sure
59:46she eats make sure you
59:47what about her teddy bear what about the
59:48medicine that she's on or whatever it
59:50may be
59:51um kate showed no concern for what
59:54madeline was going through
59:56under the hands of a kidnapper or child
59:58trafficker
1:00:00kate was more concerned about surviving
1:00:03so i expect a mother to give us some
1:00:06denial
1:00:06not to surrender so quickly
1:00:11and usually mothers have to be taught
1:00:13into
1:00:15accepting a baby's death or a child's
1:00:17death it's such a very powerful thing
1:00:19that is
1:00:20deep within us
1:00:23so the maternal denial is critical um
1:00:27that's why we say
1:00:28in missing channel cases the mother will
1:00:30not speak in the past tense
1:00:33unless something is terribly wrong with
1:00:34the case
1:00:36um then
1:00:40we hear on the audio darley say
1:00:43i saw them darren we assume this is the
1:00:47um
1:00:50the killers i saw them plural with
1:00:53another plural
1:00:55um darren was introduced there
1:00:59oh my god and she's talking in between
1:01:03sobs
1:01:04i saw them oh my god came in here
1:01:07so they came in she repeats back that
1:01:09they came in
1:01:11there's not a necessity to tell you that
1:01:13someone came into the house
1:01:16when your children are bleeding lying
1:01:19in the house we know they came in the
1:01:21house because that's they can't do it
1:01:22from outside
1:01:25we look for is over emphasis
1:01:28so as i said earlier if i say we are
1:01:31going to get you
1:01:32and we are a large group and we are a
1:01:35foreign faction
1:01:37eventually you're going to say this
1:01:38guy's alone
1:01:41it's like the doth protesters too much
1:01:45yes very good it is
1:01:49unnecessary to say they came in
1:01:52they broke in i saw them
1:01:59you should begin to wonder hey
1:02:02did no one break into this house what's
1:02:04going on here with that
1:02:06just from the words that she's using
1:02:10ma'am i need you to calm down and talk
1:02:12to me
1:02:14got the address yes
1:02:18we need help okay
1:02:21we want to hear what help is needed
1:02:24specifically
1:02:26my son's bleeding i don't think he's
1:02:28breathing
1:02:29whatever it may be we want to hear that
1:02:32now
1:02:32it could be with the we here could be we
1:02:35need help
1:02:36and i don't think so we mean me and my
1:02:38two sons
1:02:40once she's already declared dead um
1:02:44but that's that's i'm trying to push
1:02:45back against myself a little bit of a
1:02:46stretch there but
1:02:47trying to push back but you think here
1:02:51we need help is her saying her and
1:02:53darren and her husband need help
1:02:55i do i do as far as i know daryl's not
1:02:58bleeding
1:03:00there's nobody
1:03:03and she hasn't said what they're doing
1:03:05to help the boys
1:03:08live i'm very concerned about that
1:03:14we need help she is bleeding and she
1:03:17reported that she and her sons are
1:03:19bleeding dying
1:03:20so we gotta listen what's on her mind
1:03:22then
1:03:23the operator says they will be in route
1:03:25and she calls off the code
1:03:28and darley says darren
1:03:31i don't know who it was
1:03:36so not grab a talon wrap
1:03:41wherever the wound was she wants to know
1:03:45she wants him to know i don't know who
1:03:47it was
1:03:48i don't think he was there accusing her
1:03:50of anything i think he was in a panic
1:03:52himself about the babies
1:03:54so the identity is now in question
1:03:58we had gender neutral we had plural
1:04:02and now we have singular again
1:04:05but at that point it was very difficult
1:04:07for me to not say
1:04:09she is considering the identity of the
1:04:12killer
1:04:15why would she conceal the identity of
1:04:16the killer why would she protect
1:04:18the killer or the stabber at this point
1:04:21and maybe kill her if we listen to her
1:04:23words about one baby being dead
1:04:26why would she protect the assailants why
1:04:29would she protect
1:04:30the identity we don't even know if the
1:04:33man or woman at this point
1:04:37so this statement is very important to
1:04:39her i don't know who it was
1:04:41who being singular and she also
1:04:44uses his name now this is an emergency
1:04:48you wouldn't have to use someone's name
1:04:49to get their attention
1:04:52and that we don't hear of him asking
1:04:56who was it but she gets his attention
1:05:01so she's not asked for help from
1:05:05authorities from police
1:05:08on how to help breathing or bleeding
1:05:10issues
1:05:11but she's focused on they who came here
1:05:14and now they who but we still don't know
1:05:18the identity of one child that's been
1:05:20declared dead
1:05:22um
1:05:25this is a strong indicator that her
1:05:28priority is convincing both police and
1:05:30darren that someone came in there
1:05:32and there should be no need to try to
1:05:34persuade police listening
1:05:37and her husband that someone entered the
1:05:38house
1:05:40but for her it's a very strong priority
1:05:42as a matter of fact
1:05:44she just she says this before she says
1:05:47how do i make the blood stop
1:05:48the bleeding stop and it is
1:05:52one of the things she said first right
1:05:54before she said
1:05:56she was cut and her boys were caught
1:05:59stabbed yep correct she came she
1:06:03came and the commentators there
1:06:06are astutely noting that that is
1:06:09something that we don't expect from a
1:06:10mother
1:06:12that's selfish
1:06:17if she had been stabbed first and was so
1:06:19wounded that she couldn't stop him
1:06:23or them or they because we don't know if
1:06:25it's male or female
1:06:27um maybe that would be the case but
1:06:30that's not
1:06:31what has been her language that would be
1:06:32me inventing that
1:06:39then she says
1:06:42we've got to stop the bleeding nope she
1:06:45doesn't say that she says we
1:06:46we've got to find out who it is
1:06:52okay at this point um i threw in the
1:06:55towel i said
1:06:56she's concealing the gender she's
1:06:58concealing the identity
1:07:01of the assailant
1:07:05she's more concerned with then finding
1:07:07out who did this
1:07:09rather than concerned about the status
1:07:10of the children
1:07:12he still has not asked for help for our
1:07:15children i'm not a big fan of checklists
1:07:18uh i i think people need to think more
1:07:20critically for themselves
1:07:21um but sometimes it can be helpful in
1:07:24the beginning of learning
1:07:26learn to look for certain things besides
1:07:28pronouns they look for the order which
1:07:30people
1:07:31make and then we'll call what's so
1:07:32important to them
1:07:35they also are trained to listen
1:07:39for the caller asking for help for the
1:07:41victim
1:07:46and it should be it should be something
1:07:47also where the attacker is identified as
1:07:49a monster a
1:07:50bastard a
1:07:54terrible man you know any type of words
1:07:56that were familiar with her
1:07:58that would be a negative linguistic
1:07:59disposition that would be appropriate
1:08:02that would be appropriate in this case
1:08:05so far all i get is her concealing the
1:08:08gender
1:08:12as a matter of fact and animals might
1:08:15suggest
1:08:15that she's protecting
1:08:21he is protecting the person she is
1:08:26we've got to find out who it was no
1:08:28we've got to stop there bleeding
1:08:30we've got to get the boys to survive
1:08:32this
1:08:34that's the priority that should be the
1:08:36priority especially from a mother
1:08:41so her priority is not the children it
1:08:44is now to
1:08:45persuade police that someone and now
1:08:48singular
1:08:50came in broke in and did this to her
1:08:54and to the children
1:08:58so the repetition by revisiting it shows
1:09:01how important it is to her
1:09:03that they get this message operator said
1:09:06man
1:09:06man listen to me yes yes
1:09:14oh my god i need you to
1:09:18now the operator is going to to try to
1:09:20get information from her
1:09:23and get the condition of the children so
1:09:25that that
1:09:26first aid can be applied and darley says
1:09:30my babies are dead
1:09:34the children little boys were stabbed
1:09:35but the babies are dead or dying
1:09:38language doesn't change on its own at
1:09:40this point we're looking at now
1:09:42at the change in language because of the
1:09:43context this is the
1:09:45tight context so if i say
1:09:48um i was driving my car along 95
1:09:52and the engine see stuff on me so i left
1:09:56my vehicle on the side of the road
1:10:01the car when it no longer would go
1:10:05became a vehicle in my language and i
1:10:08didn't stop at some point say
1:10:09hmm should i call my car a vehicle
1:10:11because it's no longer working
1:10:13once it's repaired and i pick it up it's
1:10:15going to be picked up it's going to be a
1:10:16car again
1:10:18so it's my perception of reality that
1:10:20changes the language
1:10:21that's used here
1:10:26babies are dead and dying
1:10:30she associates that with their death
1:10:33that she's already processed it and what
1:10:35she's telling us by the change of
1:10:37language
1:10:38his reality has changed reality has
1:10:41changed
1:10:42her reality has changed right in that
1:10:45moment
1:10:46or right in that moment this is
1:10:47something that we do without even
1:10:48thinking
1:10:50um we are able to
1:10:55our vocabulary will change if our
1:10:58perception of reality has changed
1:11:01so the boys her children become babies
1:11:05and baby
1:11:07under this type of death sentence
1:11:09they're the most vulnerable babies
1:11:12but we look at the change of reality we
1:11:14seek the justification for
1:11:16what caused the car to become a vehicle
1:11:19well it wouldn't go any longer we find
1:11:22that in perception of how
1:11:24people look at perpetrators
1:11:27that committed crimes against them
1:11:29they'll change with that
1:11:34so children little boys were stabbed but
1:11:36babies are dying or dead
1:11:37so this should cause investigators
1:11:39particularly in the investigative
1:11:40psychologist went to the top of the
1:11:41motherhood with her
1:11:43this before i knew it was her that did
1:11:45this um
1:11:48do you want honey hold on
1:11:51so um this appears to be directed to one
1:11:55of the children i'm not sure
1:11:57but she doesn't use the child's name
1:11:59very unexpected in
1:12:00if your babies are dying it's not
1:12:04someone else's kids it's not universal
1:12:07it's yours
1:12:08you name them you've called them that
1:12:11name every day many times a day they're
1:12:13yours
1:12:15um you had mentioned earlier about the
1:12:16possibility of distancing language
1:12:18that's what this is
1:12:20psychologically distant distancing
1:12:22oneself
1:12:23from the victims most unexpected under
1:12:26context
1:12:27so in this in this context you would
1:12:30expect
1:12:31when she first she said my babies are
1:12:34dead
1:12:35you would expect here to see let's say
1:12:38devin um hold on devon or yes
1:12:42okay exactly
1:12:45is the distancing okay it's a degree a
1:12:48great example
1:12:49when we and we're not talking about the
1:12:50summer wells case but
1:12:52um perhaps another time the mother
1:12:56avoids using summer's name
1:12:59yeah most unexpected
1:13:03um some of your viewers might remember
1:13:06uh the baby lisa case i think it was out
1:13:08of st louis
1:13:10um where baby lisa went missing and the
1:13:13mother just completely avoided using
1:13:16lisa's name people that spoke for the
1:13:18mother used baby's name
1:13:20but not the mother herself she she
1:13:22showed guilty knowledge of
1:13:24having killed the baby or having the
1:13:25baby died during
1:13:27something in neglect
1:13:30and when children are missing you want
1:13:32to use their name as much as possible
1:13:34for a variety of reasons to
1:13:37appeal to the person that might have
1:13:39them to
1:13:40make the child um
1:13:44the word you know but uh like a human
1:13:47being instead of like just a baby like
1:13:48you name it
1:13:50generally speaking um the type of
1:13:53coaching that is done with bad
1:13:57a mother or father will not need
1:13:59instruction to use the baby's name
1:14:02they will need instruction to talk very
1:14:04personally about the
1:14:06the the child's attributes to
1:14:09try to show a human side to a crazy
1:14:12killer or crazy kidnapper
1:14:14but the names just flow because that's
1:14:17the name that they've always called that
1:14:19sometimes you'll even hear terms of
1:14:20endearment
1:14:21uh nickname not terminator
1:14:25so the the operator hears this and
1:14:32heard her say
1:14:37something do you want honey hold on then
1:14:42she said i'm talking to my babies
1:14:44their babies again they're dying
1:14:49so we have the same context again
1:14:56and then we have um eyebrow what is
1:14:58going on
1:15:00so at this point we we're expecting that
1:15:02she's going to ask for guidance how to
1:15:04stop the bleeding
1:15:05right that hasn't happened yet yeah
1:15:08and we are outsiders many years removed
1:15:12we don't know who they are but we'd be
1:15:13we're talking about ourselves that's
1:15:16what our instincts would tell us to do
1:15:19and this is this is where it gets really
1:15:22the analysis is no longer complex but
1:15:25simple
1:15:28what is going on she said somebody
1:15:32came in while i was sleeping
1:15:36me and my little boys were sleeping
1:15:37downstairs
1:15:40so not only do we have someone coming in
1:15:44in the gender neutral i'm going to
1:15:45consider i don't want you to know who it
1:15:46was i'm concealing the gender at this
1:15:48point
1:15:48which is not going to last but um
1:15:52has thus far it has but
1:15:55in case you think i did something i was
1:15:58sleeping
1:16:00one of the analysts that i worked with
1:16:02once cracked
1:16:03a little bit of dark humor said
1:16:10that it fascinated her that so many
1:16:13guilty mothers were sleeping when the
1:16:16child was allegedly kidnapped
1:16:19they have a need to say this
1:16:22so that they can establish some form of
1:16:24an alibi
1:16:26if your children are bleeding by the
1:16:29hand of a
1:16:30man who broke in you don't need an alibi
1:16:33you don't care for an alibi
1:16:35you care for how to stop the bleeding
1:16:39she wants them to know part of her
1:16:40priority
1:16:42that the person the gender-neutral
1:16:46person which i haven't told you yet it's
1:16:48a male or female
1:16:49which tells you because most killers are
1:16:51mad like that especially
1:16:52uh home invasion it's like you're going
1:16:55to be a male
1:16:57i'm going to conceal the gender
1:17:00and so at this point an analyst was
1:17:02thinking the woman did this
1:17:06[Music]
1:17:07because she's avoiding foreign
1:17:17yeah let's see if anyone in chat has a
1:17:19question um
1:17:22let's see here yeah um
1:17:24[Music]
1:17:26dawn of destruction do we hear darren
1:17:29yellen
1:17:30what do i do at all
1:17:34dawn of destruction um do you mean
1:17:40what's darren's role in this if darren
1:17:42is
1:17:44trying to contribute i mean that might
1:17:47be a good question
1:17:48too but um
1:17:51so mr hyatt how would you answer that
1:17:53like the the secondary parent the person
1:17:56that isn't on the phone
1:17:57if they're not asking questions
1:17:59themselves are you
1:18:00going in in statement analysis are you
1:18:03going to be taking that into
1:18:04consideration
1:18:06yes and we try to listen for obviously
1:18:08what's in the background
1:18:09and um later on when he did speak
1:18:13i found him to be reliable he was
1:18:15truthful
1:18:16so my guess is he was tending to the
1:18:18boys
1:18:20good question though let's see if we
1:18:23have any others
1:18:25um
1:18:31we will take questions at the end to you
1:18:34guys but if you
1:18:34have any um you know we're on a little
1:18:37bit of a delay but if you have any we'll
1:18:40we'll check in every once in a while
1:18:42okay
1:18:44now she said somebody
1:18:48which conceals the gender and the
1:18:49identity came in while i was sleeping
1:18:51establishing her own alibi me and my
1:18:54little boys
1:18:55were sleeping um they're back to being
1:18:59little boys again
1:19:00interesting so while they're alive
1:19:06am i getting this right or am i off
1:19:07while there are a lot of their little
1:19:09boys
1:19:10when she's hit the point in her head
1:19:13when they've passed their babies
1:19:16now if you go back to um or when they
1:19:18were dying
1:19:19if you go back to my car example
1:19:22i was driving my car along the highway
1:19:25the engine seized up on me or broke down
1:19:30so i left the auto on the side of the
1:19:31road and got a ride home
1:19:33where i left the vehicle so the car
1:19:36changed into a vehicle
1:19:38and within the context of my account of
1:19:41driving and then not driving
1:19:43it is an indication that someone is
1:19:45telling the truth
1:19:48the change of language is justified by
1:19:49the context
1:19:52she is telling the truth in the sense
1:19:54that
1:19:57at one point they were her boys
1:20:00but they reverted back to being babies
1:20:02when they were dying and she's
1:20:03consistent with it
1:20:05it's likely reliable which makes us
1:20:09leads us to go she knew
1:20:12she knew
1:20:16while they were sleeping they were still
1:20:19safe
1:20:21but they're not any longer from the
1:20:24person that she's concealing the
1:20:25identity of
1:20:27and one other thing dawn of destruction
1:20:29wants to know if her education level has
1:20:31any bearing on the verbiage she's
1:20:33using it always does it always does
1:20:36but if someone has the expectation that
1:20:39they're going to be understood and they
1:20:40are understood
1:20:41in normal communications we look at all
1:20:44those factors
1:20:45including some regional expressions so
1:20:47great question
1:20:50donna
1:20:54for some people it can be very
1:20:58difficult broken english we have to take
1:20:59them at their word i did a case
1:21:01where um the young man's name was nathan
1:21:06carmen and nathan went out for a boat
1:21:09ride with his mom
1:21:11and she never came back and
1:21:16nathan has aspergers
1:21:20so there's a very low emotional effect
1:21:23and it's like a very linear almost
1:21:26block-like
1:21:27language when he speaks but he was still
1:21:30deceptive
1:21:32and uh we learned later on that his
1:21:35grandfather was shot
1:21:37dead his grandfather had a was a
1:21:38multi-millionaire
1:21:40he left money the shooting came from
1:21:43somewhere within the house the
1:21:44grandfather's own rifle nathan was
1:21:47suspected in but wasn't proven
1:21:50and then uh nathan
1:21:53his mother got 10 million dollars or
1:21:55something and
1:21:57nathan wanted to go out on a fishing
1:21:59trip with her and she didn't want to go
1:22:00and
1:22:01he pushed and pushed and pushed and then
1:22:05said they took on water and he got into
1:22:07a lifeboat and left left because he
1:22:09couldn't save his mother
1:22:11and uh that is still it's not
1:22:13adjudicated yet but he was deceptive
1:22:15about it
1:22:16i had to take into account the
1:22:19especially the emotional blunting of
1:22:21asperger's
1:22:22and understanding what it's like so it's
1:22:25a great question we do look at regional
1:22:27language we look at education level we
1:22:29look at any mental health issues
1:22:30that are going on we look at everything
1:22:33as part of that
1:22:34part of pushback part of no we we've got
1:22:38to hang on and be
1:22:39able to believe this person is innocent
1:22:40and telling the truth at this point
1:22:42darling's talked me out of it
1:22:43it's been too much to overcome but it's
1:22:46still a great question to
1:22:47to ask there so now we get down to some
1:22:50details
1:22:52darlee says some man
1:22:55came in i think that's the third time he
1:22:57came in
1:22:58in her language so after a while you
1:23:01know how many times do i have to say i'm
1:23:03with others before you realize i'm alone
1:23:05how many times must i say came in until
1:23:07you realize maybe someone was already in
1:23:10and it's some man
1:23:14at this point they're bleeding they may
1:23:16be dead at this point or near death
1:23:18it should be the man she's a man yeah
1:23:22this is another place where she's caught
1:23:23inception yeah
1:23:26wow it's not some man
1:23:29some random guy out there it's the man
1:23:32the guy the bastard who did this
1:23:37the killer the assailant whatever this
1:23:40the stab or whatever
1:23:41word she wants to use it's not some
1:23:43stuff is random
1:23:44some is unknown it's a distancing again
1:23:48and in a way right it's a little bit
1:23:51yeah
1:23:52so she is trying to convince police this
1:23:55is an interview with police
1:23:56that she doesn't know who did it and now
1:23:59she finally
1:24:00ascribes to the the gender
1:24:06so this is an indicator of deception and
1:24:08i at this point i i
1:24:09get in red because it is deceptive
1:24:16okay stay on the phone with me oh my god
1:24:21what happened hold on honey hold on we
1:24:24do know terms of endearment
1:24:26they oftentimes are said for the
1:24:32for the police to hear
1:24:35they often indicate the opposite we call
1:24:38this
1:24:38uh by very very different ways we flag
1:24:42it but
1:24:42for instance um so last night i was
1:24:45putting my
1:24:46granddaughter to bed and i said i love
1:24:48you and i put her to sleep
1:24:51if i gave that statement to police
1:24:54it is a sign of a bad relationship you
1:24:58say why
1:24:59of course you love your granddaughter or
1:25:01your daughter or your son everyone does
1:25:03what no
1:25:03what's wrong with saying i love you i
1:25:04say love you to my kids every night
1:25:06right it's the need to say it to
1:25:11the context of a police investigation
1:25:13that tells us to the contrary
1:25:15something is wrong with the relationship
1:25:20i was teaching this one time and he came
1:25:23upon this principle
1:25:26and we used it when it's someone um
1:25:30he was like a turner of indian and
1:25:34i was able to pinpoint the time of death
1:25:37where he had killed her
1:25:39because he used the term of endearment
1:25:41at that moment i said
1:25:43you'll find that this is where he killed
1:25:45her it was a
1:25:46probably a sarcastic um
1:25:49jab that he was giving to her but the
1:25:52term of endearment is meant to influence
1:25:54you the listener that we have a really
1:25:56good and close relationship
1:25:58and she didn't
1:26:02oh my god oh my god
1:26:06charlie says hold on
1:26:13operator says who's with you and then we
1:26:17i think
1:26:17karen that may be darren i'm not sure
1:26:22so the operator wants to find out get
1:26:24some clarity there
1:26:27ma'am what is there anyone in the house
1:26:29besides you and your children
1:26:32no my husband he just ran downstairs
1:26:36he's helping me
1:26:38but they're telling oh my god they're
1:26:40dead
1:26:41so when the opera is asking a natural
1:26:45question
1:26:47and then she says no it's just her
1:26:48husband and he's helping her
1:26:50but the baby she wants them to know are
1:26:52beyond help
1:26:57so in that sentence you take he's
1:27:00helping me
1:27:01meaning he's tending to her wood
1:27:04or helping her with the boys well
1:27:07apparently she wasn't able to do
1:27:08anything for the boys much because
1:27:10her own i think they were rather
1:27:12superficial wounds but
1:27:14that's outside the statement he's
1:27:16downstairs so he's not helping her
1:27:18so i don't know what he's what this is
1:27:19about
1:27:21maybe it's he's tending to them that's
1:27:23what i believe he'd be doing
1:27:25and later on from his statement we get a
1:27:27little more clarity that's but that's
1:27:29also separate here they're dying oh my
1:27:32god they're dead
1:27:33so she's processing it she's allowing it
1:27:36to be something that we don't expect the
1:27:37mother to do and she's repeating it over
1:27:39and over
1:27:41okay so how many little boys is two
1:27:43little boys
1:27:45and she said there's two of them there's
1:27:47two
1:27:49and she hasn't used the kid's name yet
1:27:51right
1:27:52which is very surprising
1:27:55then she said oh my god who
1:27:58would do this not why
1:28:02but who would do this in other words
1:28:05i darling don't know who did it because
1:28:08if i did i wouldn't be asking who did
1:28:18she was asleep so it couldn't have been
1:28:19her
1:28:21in her language she's told us she's
1:28:23asleep right
1:28:29okay listen to me calm down i feel
1:28:32really bad i think i'm dying
1:28:36so she turns the attention to herself
1:28:40and what i found was striking there also
1:28:42from a maternal point of view
1:28:45is that she knows they're dying
1:28:50but she only thinks that she's dying
1:28:53i think she's telling the truth there
1:28:54that she in other words she
1:28:56comparing them jesus she's already
1:28:58accepted their death
1:29:00but really and think qualifying her
1:29:04words there
1:29:05she's making that weak assertion this
1:29:07would
1:29:08suggest to me she's okay
1:29:13quite a comparison she accepts that
1:29:15which is unacceptable
1:29:19but then only qualifies what would be
1:29:22perhaps a reality
1:29:24so it's weakness you only think she's
1:29:26done it but she knows the babies are
1:29:27dying that's the comparison
1:29:30go ahead when are they going to be here
1:29:35now she hasn't asked for help for them
1:29:38right
1:29:42no instruction and you don't we don't
1:29:46know this
1:29:47we don't know this um you know the first
1:29:49time obviously hearing 911
1:29:52operators don't know this darren is
1:29:55giving cpr
1:29:57to one of the boys you know during this
1:30:00but she hasn't asked for aid in doing
1:30:02the cpr
1:30:03and she hasn't said you know my
1:30:06husband's doing cpr it's not working
1:30:08or any indication that
1:30:11there's being life-saving measures being
1:30:14done right now
1:30:15she doesn't ask for help for the victims
1:30:22the boys i guess at this point we call
1:30:24them the babies
1:30:28then she said i gotta just sit here
1:30:31forever
1:30:32oh my god so she uses her butter i said
1:30:36before about
1:30:37sitting my daughter to do her homework
1:30:39or using the body posture
1:30:41that's some attention and she's tense
1:30:43about herself
1:30:45this is about her so
1:30:49thus far what are the rotten words that
1:30:52she used to describe the killer
1:30:56wait it's a male i think is the only
1:30:58thing right
1:30:59she used one of them
1:31:03her linguistic disposition towards the
1:31:05killer
1:31:06is to protect the killer that's positive
1:31:12where it could be extremely negative
1:31:16so at that that point i i thought to
1:31:18myself
1:31:19she knows who did this
1:31:22but i'm not convinced it's a male
1:31:24because she's not convinced
1:31:27i still didn't think it was just her
1:31:29just yeah i had to come to that
1:31:31and i know we're running on how much
1:31:33time do we have
1:31:36however much you want however
1:31:41okay i don't want to run on too long but
1:31:46the linguistic disposition should be
1:31:47extremely negative every place where
1:31:49it's not
1:31:50is alarming she should be asking
1:31:53repeatedly for help for her children
1:31:54she's not
1:31:57you could say does she want them to die
1:31:59or she already processed their death
1:32:01now the processing of death by a a
1:32:04mother at this point
1:32:06tells me that there may have been
1:32:08planning for such an assault
1:32:10you don't have that where a mother
1:32:13accidentally drops or shakes a baby
1:32:16um i think the mechanic madeline mccann
1:32:20died
1:32:21an unintentional death and then they
1:32:23went into cover-up mode
1:32:25i know people have a different views on
1:32:27that but that's what i get
1:32:28thus far from the language
1:32:32they process the death quickly because
1:32:33they've got to survive
1:32:35and they can say to themselves i can
1:32:37justify it i've got to survive
1:32:39for the other two children right so they
1:32:43you can talk yourself into anything but
1:32:45this particular case
1:32:47the mother has processed the death so
1:32:49quickly
1:32:51and focused on herself that apparently
1:32:54her husband did not
1:32:55he was more natural trying to save them
1:32:59and now she's angry that she has to sit
1:33:02there
1:33:03so the tension has increased the body
1:33:05posture of sitting
1:33:06you know we didn't think that she was
1:33:07doing jumping jacks so you know after
1:33:09being stabbed
1:33:11i just gotta sit here forever oh my god
1:33:15and then back to this again who would do
1:33:18this
1:33:18who would do this i think that's a
1:33:20fourth or fifth time because it's two
1:33:22there
1:33:23that she's letting the 911 operator know
1:33:27i don't know who did this i don't know
1:33:29who did this oh i don't know who did
1:33:30this
1:33:31i don't know who did this and after a
1:33:33while
1:33:35it when he's down someone says hey you
1:33:37know who did this you know who did this
1:33:39right
1:33:40okay and you seem awful nice trying to
1:33:43protect the person that did this
1:33:45and you're concealing even the gender of
1:33:48the person
1:33:50interesting
1:33:55and then how old are your boys what how
1:33:58old are your boys
1:34:00seven and five she still hasn't used
1:34:02their names
1:34:05and she's not she's actually trying to
1:34:07control the condition herself
1:34:08she's not allowing information to flow
1:34:11if the information was
1:34:12if she was facilitating the flow of
1:34:14information she'd be talking about
1:34:15what darren was doing to save one of
1:34:17them what she was trying to do
1:34:19yeah so now interesting finally one of
1:34:22the names enters
1:34:24oh my god oh my god he's dead
1:34:28oh god devin no oh my god
1:34:34so we have under the context he's dead
1:34:40she verifies the names and here she then
1:34:43says please
1:34:44hurry god they're taking forever
1:34:47we generally don't expect to hear
1:34:49politeness under emergency
1:34:53and so that's it's a mild red flag but
1:34:55it's still something we do flag
1:34:57in context with everything else you've
1:34:58done it's troublesome
1:35:01so the 911 operator number one has been
1:35:04listening to the repeat who does
1:35:06over and over the police officer look
1:35:09for that look for a rag
1:35:11and then darley with the plural gender
1:35:14neutral they killed our babies
1:35:18and their the word hour there is very
1:35:20concerning to me
1:35:22but at this point maybe not so concerned
1:35:23because i've already been convinced she
1:35:24talked me into this
1:35:27our means to share i mean to share now
1:35:31if she is standing
1:35:32in front of a microphone her and her
1:35:34husband
1:35:35maybe the word hour but
1:35:39from a mother of a child that's been
1:35:42murdered
1:35:42that's my baby that's mine
1:35:45so you know it's one of those
1:35:47interesting pronouns that
1:35:50when people are talking you hear them
1:35:52sharing
1:35:53and if you know the people it can
1:35:56sometimes be an indication that the
1:35:57marriage is in trouble
1:35:59or it could be a step child for example
1:36:02people use that for step children
1:36:05[Music]
1:36:07foster children adopted children there's
1:36:10something like that
1:36:11but generally speaking it's my
1:36:15my son scored a a run in baseball today
1:36:19that that sort of thing
1:36:23because i'm proud of baseball or hockey
1:36:25or
1:36:26graves my daughter got a new job today
1:36:31when i go to share it is a subtle
1:36:33distancing
1:36:36now if i'm the stepfather i might say
1:36:38our because there is there is
1:36:40i'm not the biological well there is an
1:36:41actual distance in there
1:36:43um it's back in spite of loving her or
1:36:45something like that but it comes to our
1:36:46language
1:36:47it's little clues that are given um
1:36:50and as far as we know he's upstairs
1:36:52doing cpr
1:36:55i think the sharing tells me that
1:36:58something is very wrong here
1:37:00so nightbird has a question actually
1:37:02peter um
1:37:03would her injuries play a part in how
1:37:05she's responding
1:37:07yeah um great pushback if she's lost a
1:37:10lot of blood she could start
1:37:11to become woozy and start to become um
1:37:15losing a sense of direction losing a
1:37:18sense of
1:37:21laser-like focus on saving the boys
1:37:23which we've never seen anyway
1:37:24so yeah great question um
1:37:29great observation too
1:37:36here um
1:37:39we have finally the opera is answering
1:37:42her about
1:37:43this this thing um
1:37:46you don't know who did this
1:37:50and she says they
1:37:54plural again killed our babies so when
1:37:56someone can't keep their pronouns free
1:37:59you're pretty safe to conclude deception
1:38:03there's a great exercise to prove this
1:38:04to be true
1:38:06and i sometimes bring on a class in
1:38:10training especially new classes
1:38:12this but i proved to them that the
1:38:15pronouns are instinctive
1:38:17so if i ask you what did you have for
1:38:19breakfast two wednesdays ago
1:38:23i don't know you know let's get the same
1:38:26breakfast every day you don't know
1:38:28and that's only two weeks ago so then if
1:38:31i ask you to
1:38:33um
1:38:36tell us something that happened to you
1:38:40has to be true don't don't lie
1:38:43and make it and i'll usually i'll pick
1:38:45on someone say middle-aged
1:38:47naked not two weeks ago but make it 35
1:38:50years ago
1:38:53and let me know when you have the story
1:38:54you're ready to speak in the person says
1:38:56all right
1:38:56i'm ready then i asked them do you know
1:38:59if you're going to start with the word i
1:39:01or the word we in other words were you
1:39:03alone or were you with someone
1:39:05and the person always knows what they're
1:39:06going to say they remember
1:39:0835 40 years ago 50 years ago
1:39:12whether they're repeating whatever event
1:39:13that took place
1:39:15whether they were alone or with someone
1:39:17else they didn't stop and say man should
1:39:19i start this story with an eye
1:39:21or should i start with a wig let me
1:39:22think about that for a moment so i get
1:39:24my story straight
1:39:26like that it's instinctive and so that's
1:39:29one of the things we're looking at with
1:39:30earlier distancing language and the
1:39:32pronouns it's either
1:39:34they or him even if you don't want to
1:39:37get terribly negative
1:39:39and some people may have a they just
1:39:42never curse
1:39:43like that they never use found language
1:39:47or they use language that's different
1:39:49they'll call the killer something else
1:39:51but it's something negative
1:39:53she is in fact positive towards
1:39:56the killer because she protects the
1:39:59identity
1:40:00and she keeps saying i don't know who it
1:40:02is i don't know who it is
1:40:08interesting she's telling us about
1:40:10herself actually
1:40:12so please hope to lay down okay just sit
1:40:14down
1:40:16i'm typing all that and
1:40:19um darling's heard saying no he ran out
1:40:23uh they ran out in the garage i was
1:40:26sleeping
1:40:28and if someone can't see the deception
1:40:30in that one i probably can't train them
1:40:32he ran out they ran out i was sleeping
1:40:34and
1:40:36deception is indicated there not only
1:40:38with the
1:40:39ability to keep track of the pronouns
1:40:41but with the alibi building
1:40:47let's see if i have just a little more
1:40:49here um
1:40:50remember the babies are dead my baby's
1:40:52over here already cut
1:40:55can i the bone is right there
1:40:59so she's showing her priorities to make
1:41:01sure the alibi is it stands strong
1:41:04she and i'm going back to that question
1:41:06about the bleeding out and how that
1:41:08might impact her language
1:41:09that was a really great question she has
1:41:12the presence of mind
1:41:14while she's thinking that she is dying
1:41:16to instruct police on how to conduct
1:41:17their investigation
1:41:19watch this you all look out in the
1:41:22garage look out in the garage
1:41:24they plural left the knife lying on
1:41:30i remember what i said about an
1:41:32inhabitant object being given a body
1:41:34posture
1:41:36as an indicator the person put it there
1:41:39so the drugs were sitting on the coffee
1:41:40table the person put it there
1:41:43that's where she put the knife there and
1:41:46she wants to let them know
1:41:48she's getting more detail about herself
1:41:49with the knife than she gave about the
1:41:51boys in their condition
1:41:54they plural left a knife lying on so the
1:41:56body posture
1:42:00what would you expect her to say if it
1:42:02wasn't her
1:42:03for the knife that the the knife just
1:42:05laying on or no how would else would you
1:42:06say that i'm trying to think
1:42:08with a knife if she did if she's trying
1:42:10to describe the the knife
1:42:12lying on the floor how would you expect
1:42:13it if she didn't put it there how would
1:42:15you expect
1:42:15her to say that okay so that's a good
1:42:18question of pushback
1:42:19and the trouble i'm going to have with
1:42:21it is
1:42:23if it was me if it was you or others
1:42:26would be focused upon the children
1:42:29and may be focused on a knife if the
1:42:31officer asked us about the knife
1:42:35i we i don't think we would have thought
1:42:37of it to offer it as information
1:42:41and then go back to he they
1:42:44ran out the garage okay i see
1:42:47so she this is really so great question
1:42:49great push back
1:42:51i i can't um carry it like that um
1:42:57she is focused on herself and watch this
1:43:00most of the details that she gives
1:43:05i already touched it and picked it up
1:43:09so i was sleeping and my dna will be on
1:43:12the knife
1:43:14i know that's a big one did i always go
1:43:16back to that
1:43:17like whoo
1:43:20so would you as a guy or any mom in the
1:43:23audience would you have the presence of
1:43:24mine to not care
1:43:26what's going on with your kids but you
1:43:27can get some details about a knife did
1:43:28you chase him out that way that you
1:43:30would see that the thing and pick up the
1:43:31knife
1:43:32[ __ ] run from you like that that was a
1:43:34knife and just killed
1:43:35your babies and stabbing you
1:43:38so none of it makes sense and it
1:43:42it becomes overwhelming that darlie
1:43:46knows and wants to protect
1:43:49the female killer
1:43:52and the female killer is in the house
1:43:55because of her need to persuade
1:43:57he came in he came and they came and
1:43:59they came in in the house
1:44:02just the opposite
1:44:09um who's out there is anyone out there
1:44:12and darling says i don't know i was
1:44:15sleeping
1:44:17so it's rather absurd at this point yeah
1:44:19because that's past
1:44:20tense in their asking present right yes
1:44:23yeah
1:44:24if she's she she must protect herself
1:44:27someone from the outside came in and i
1:44:29was asleep over and over and over
1:44:32not anything about the kids until now
1:44:35yeah and finally they're barely
1:44:38breathing
1:44:39but they were dying they were dead and
1:44:42they're barely breathing and no names to
1:44:43them
1:44:44and no differentiation between one or
1:44:46the other
1:44:47the boys if they don't get it here
1:44:50they're going to be dead
1:44:52you're declared that way my god there
1:44:54hurry please hurry
1:44:55politeness
1:45:00yeah we have yet to hear damon's name we
1:45:02heard devin's name when she declared him
1:45:04dead
1:45:05but we have yet to hear damon's name
1:45:08good observation
1:45:10listen ma'am i need to neither of the
1:45:12officers in the front door what what
1:45:14ma'am
1:45:14okay so the operator got her attention
1:45:17with the word listen man
1:45:19and prepare dolly know that coming to
1:45:21the door charlie says what what
1:45:25and then darley says his knife was
1:45:29lying over there and i already picked it
1:45:31up
1:45:34not the knife but his knife is a
1:45:38personal pronoun it's assigned to
1:45:40someone
1:45:42it's already been introduced it's the
1:45:44knife
1:45:45she wants to make sure that they
1:45:47understand it's not her knife
1:45:50it belongs to someone else this we tag
1:45:53as
1:45:53need to persuade and you get enough need
1:45:56to persuade us
1:45:57you're looking at deception
1:46:02so i know she hasn't been have we how
1:46:04many have we had so far mr hyatt like
1:46:06five need to persuade oh no i've lost
1:46:09count there's been more than
1:46:14and then the knife again is lying so we
1:46:17have a body posture for the knife
1:46:19and then another admission that not that
1:46:21she picked it up but i
1:46:22already picked it up so
1:46:26would you be picking up a knife or would
1:46:29you be
1:46:30trying to stop your kids bleeding
1:46:33right i'd be concentrating on my
1:46:35children and getting
1:46:36my children help it should be such a
1:46:39shocking experience that the only thing
1:46:41can kick in
1:46:42is survival for your children right
1:46:45that's that's absent from her
1:46:49already she's trying to shift blame away
1:46:52before the operator can even warn her
1:46:54another deception indicated the mother's
1:46:57instinct should be on the children it's
1:46:58not this mother's instinct is
1:47:00self-preservation alibi building
1:47:02an attempt to persuade that someone did
1:47:04this and it wasn't her
1:47:08and she said god i bet if we could have
1:47:10gotten the prince maybe
1:47:13so i go back to the excellent question
1:47:16about
1:47:17the loss of blood and how it might
1:47:18affect your mind
1:47:20because it is a really good question and
1:47:24we have our laser precision detail
1:47:27on how the investigation should be
1:47:29handled
1:47:32not a word about saving the boys
1:47:37so what would you say to people sorry
1:47:40sorry zap what would you say
1:47:41because we have it yeah that's oh that's
1:47:44just gonna ask that her
1:47:48that what they're getting from this
1:47:51is that she really wants to catch this
1:47:54perp
1:47:55she wants us to catch this perp
1:47:58so if she wants to catch the perp is it
1:48:01a male
1:48:02a female singular or plural
1:48:07then this then she goes further back to
1:48:10protecting herself again
1:48:12somebody gender neutral who did it
1:48:16intentionally walked in here and did it
1:48:20darren
1:48:22so now the intruder the the home invader
1:48:26didn't break in he walked in
1:48:29and here's the key
1:48:32walking is pretty casual that's like the
1:48:35the uh
1:48:3630 minutes to sit down and write the
1:48:37ramsey ramsey ransom though
1:48:42how does she know intent of the killer
1:48:48and frankly i believe her
1:48:53she knew what she was doing she knows
1:48:56the intent of the killer
1:48:58so at this point it's not difficult
1:49:00analysis
1:49:01it's um almost to the point of being
1:49:04silly where she's
1:49:07trying so hard to persuade police that
1:49:08she didn't do it and she doesn't know
1:49:10who did it
1:49:11but somebody gender neutral who did
1:49:14intentionally
1:49:15and walked in that's not an intrusive
1:49:19language that's not remember a whole
1:49:20invasion is
1:49:23we always flag in statements if someone
1:49:25gives a location where they sleep
1:49:27sleep is where we are most vulnerable
1:49:30location of sleep you'll see
1:49:35combat vets police officers law
1:49:38enforcement military
1:49:39we'll talk about even pulling blankets
1:49:41up because they're protecting themselves
1:49:43in a new language but where we sleep is
1:49:46where we are most vulnerable in life
1:49:49so our homes are sanctuaries they're
1:49:51they're
1:49:52the place where we are the safest
1:49:56and so if someone breaks in
1:49:59it is an intrusion she slows it down to
1:50:03a walk
1:50:06that's more like watching a silly horror
1:50:08movie than describing what really
1:50:10happened it's not coming from
1:50:12experiential memory
1:50:18darley said there's nothing touched she
1:50:20still has the peace of mind to try to
1:50:22direct the investigation there there's
1:50:24nothing touchy repeats
1:50:27the police officer was there so this was
1:50:30my conclusion
1:50:31deception was indicated the end
1:50:36the language of the call shows the
1:50:38caller has guilty knowledge
1:50:40of the murder of her children the caller
1:50:43has the need to persuade police that
1:50:45someone came to the house
1:50:47the call cannot keep her pronouns or
1:50:49articles straight
1:50:51the crawler cannot keep the chrono
1:50:52chronology of her story consistent
1:50:55the caller has intimate knowledge of the
1:50:58killer's intentions
1:50:59and thoughts the caller is more
1:51:01concerned with evidence pointing
1:51:03than with her children's condition or
1:51:05lives
1:51:09and so my conclusion was she knows who
1:51:11did it she likes who did it she's
1:51:13protecting the person that did it and
1:51:15this is something that we see in
1:51:17anonymous authors
1:51:19who refused to condemn themselves
1:51:23that's why she had no nasty language
1:51:25towards the killer
1:51:27she didn't call him a killer
1:51:30so that was something i sent in and i
1:51:33thought hey
1:51:34this is pretty interesting because she
1:51:36did it and it's a woman that's not
1:51:38that's not
1:51:39terribly common but they already had her
1:51:42arrested by time i got involved
1:51:46oh that's a good point i don't know how
1:51:48to pronounce your name ange
1:51:50tex gal how did she know nothing was
1:51:52stolen at that point you would
1:51:54how would she even be aware of it at
1:51:55that point when she's on the 911 call
1:51:57that's kind of
1:51:59huh you think about it like that huh
1:52:02generally speaking when i do an analysis
1:52:05with any type of live audience
1:52:07someone always comes up with something i
1:52:08missed it's
1:52:10it's marvelous it's it's so helpful to
1:52:12wow great point thank you and
1:52:14i observe that and put it into the
1:52:16training so i'm able to build on as i go
1:52:18along
1:52:18from different training from training
1:52:20i've done the um
1:52:23the rancid ramsay case forever
1:52:26and still people will come up with
1:52:28something a small point somewhere in the
1:52:29language
1:52:30that i hadn't considered it's very it's
1:52:32very helpful
1:52:34uh wow see if there's anything else this
1:52:37was amazing i've been wanting to hear
1:52:40your darley story you know since we
1:52:42started talking and i'm like
1:52:44wonder what this is because we've been
1:52:46so invested in the darley case we've
1:52:48been doing the transcripts and
1:52:50it really helps to have you here you
1:52:53know
1:52:54shining a light on the language of the
1:52:56911
1:52:58amazing and for the summer wells case i
1:53:02was
1:53:02hoping that we could hear the 911 call
1:53:04instead of it being
1:53:06you know reported to us by the
1:53:07dispatcher to actually hear
1:53:10the tone of dawn calling it in and we
1:53:13don't have that for that case so
1:53:16it'd be great to have you that'd be
1:53:19helpful that when that gets released
1:53:20um was candace the mother was she did
1:53:24she make that call also
1:53:26she called her husband to call 9-1-1
1:53:30okay so he called it in to the
1:53:33dispatcher
1:53:34and we're kind of playing you know doing
1:53:36what you call push-back is saying maybe
1:53:38you shouldn't have wi-fi
1:53:40i mean with her phone reception because
1:53:42their world tennessee
1:53:43you know maybe she was out looking for a
1:53:45summer and she's like i'm gonna look you
1:53:48call 9-1-1
1:53:49you know but it'd be nice to hear the
1:53:51call
1:53:52yep and i think that they haven't
1:53:53released information because they i
1:53:55think they know what they're doing quite
1:53:56well
1:53:58um i'm not involved with the case
1:54:00whenever i'm involved with a case i
1:54:01never blog about it i never talk about
1:54:03it in public
1:54:05so this one i'm free to talk about but
1:54:07um
1:54:08i know this this uh the interview room
1:54:12has introduced family and friends and
1:54:14that's been interesting
1:54:16but i'm quite certain that he also
1:54:18checks with law enforcement and won't do
1:54:19anything that they would want him to do
1:54:21exactly
1:54:22yeah yeah so
1:54:25if you enjoyed being on our show here
1:54:29you can come back after next week this
1:54:31week is crazy you guys
1:54:33for mr hyatt and if you guys missed that
1:54:35in the beginning
1:54:36he is training people from all over the
1:54:38world this week and so
1:54:40he graced us with his presence
1:54:44so after this week if you have time to
1:54:46come and talk
1:54:47the um summer wells case with us we
1:54:49would love that
1:54:50yeah definitely i think
1:54:54the team they have a
1:54:57cold case tomorrow to handle and then
1:54:59thursday
1:55:01the team um it's very inspiring
1:55:04these are some great professionals they
1:55:07may be looking at
1:55:09my analysis on um
1:55:12chris watt's girlfriend
1:55:17one um i don't know if they're going to
1:55:19do it because they don't know that it's
1:55:20very exciting to them
1:55:22but the challenge is um
1:55:25and it sounds comedic but to prove me
1:55:27wrong
1:55:28oh okay and they're not afraid to
1:55:33tell you oh yeah they're good
1:55:37i was i was shocked you did nicole
1:55:40kessinger i was shocked you did that and
1:55:42i was so happy you did it
1:55:44but um i yeah i would love to hear
1:55:47i'd love to hear what the team says
1:55:49about pushes back on that one
1:55:51yeah the transfer is um i think 100
1:55:55pages so it's very long so i decided
1:55:57just do a video instead of breaking down
1:55:59on the
1:56:00whiteboard you know the low tech stuff i
1:56:02would just
1:56:03look like an illusion you know here's my
1:56:05conclusion on the matter but
1:56:07um i was very surprised
1:56:10at the emotional responses of people
1:56:12that were angry
1:56:14and some were most inappropriate most
1:56:17disagreeable
1:56:20no no science is worth anything without
1:56:22pushback
1:56:23it has to be challenged yeah i
1:56:26i'm just about completed the uh
1:56:31the course on the language of
1:56:34addiction and i think it's it has served
1:56:38me well
1:56:39and i'm able to for employers to spot
1:56:42someone that is
1:56:42an active addict who's going to bring
1:56:44harm to their job and that sort of thing
1:56:46but i haven't published it because i
1:56:48haven't been able
1:56:50to go before literally not not on the
1:56:52zoom but
1:56:53but stand before a live audience of
1:56:56professionals
1:56:57especially in the fields of sociology
1:57:01and had them try to shoot holes in it
1:57:04i need that i need them to to no that's
1:57:07not right and here's why
1:57:09and whatever's left of that will
1:57:11probably be really good
1:57:13but it has to withstand scrutiny you
1:57:15can't it can't be shouted down or can't
1:57:18be pushed away because
1:57:19we don't grow from that and we're
1:57:21looking for truth
1:57:22right it was a um and sometimes the
1:57:26the the entities that
1:57:30that want justice sometimes they have a
1:57:33political motivation and it's not
1:57:36justice there was a murder of the case
1:57:39in the state of maine by a man named
1:57:41dennis deshane
1:57:43and uh he was convicted of killing
1:57:4713 year old sarah cherry in the woods in
1:57:49maine
1:57:50many years ago and
1:57:54one of those entities contacted me and
1:57:57actually came to my home
1:57:59and asked me if i would get involved in
1:58:01freeing dennis to shane and
1:58:03this celebrity and that celebrity is
1:58:04going to be involved he's innocent we've
1:58:07got to get justice
1:58:08i said i'd be glad to because the
1:58:09thought of someone spending a life in
1:58:11prison who didn't do it is horrible
1:58:14right so they gave me transcripts of the
1:58:17trial
1:58:19and he was alone he said
1:58:22on drugs and fishing in the woods but no
1:58:25saritari was with him
1:58:27and he said uh as the prosecutor was
1:58:32asking questions so what happened next
1:58:33he took the stand in his own defense
1:58:34which is generally a good sign i like
1:58:36that
1:58:37and the shane said
1:58:41i was admiring the decidious trees
1:58:44when we were losing daylight and the
1:58:47prosecutor said
1:58:48mr deshane who's we
1:58:51and it was called for a recess at that
1:58:53point and uh they came back the next day
1:58:55and the defense presented
1:58:57well we was like universal like we're
1:58:59all losing daylight like we're all
1:59:00losing sun we're all losing which
1:59:03we're experiencing snow and the jury
1:59:05didn't buy it
1:59:06it was that ridiculous because the point
1:59:09of losing daylight is when you're in the
1:59:11woods
1:59:11it's dark and he was not alone and the
1:59:15evidence fit that
1:59:16so i'm always a little bit suspicious of
1:59:18that and i i've bailed out
1:59:20a couple of times now a few times from
1:59:23those things because it really was about
1:59:25the death penalty not about whether the
1:59:27person did it or not
1:59:29okay so you know if you if you want to
1:59:31be anti-death penalty come out and say
1:59:33so
1:59:34and say that's why what you're doing but
1:59:36don't try to free someone
1:59:39who is guilty
1:59:42to make a political point right sorry
1:59:45and i agree with that sort of thing
1:59:48and that's kind of like what happened
1:59:50with darley is we
1:59:52when we're reading the transcripts the
1:59:54one thing that we could do because it's
1:59:55a child transcripts the one thing we
1:59:57could say is
1:59:58gosh her defense just doesn't take up
2:00:01for her
2:00:01you know they don't they don't ever
2:00:03interject and say um
2:00:05you know objection to things that are
2:00:08just ridiculous
2:00:09so it kind of feels like she didn't and
2:00:12there's more into it
2:00:14you know but yeah so it just it kind of
2:00:17feels like it's a death row case she's
2:00:19sitting there
2:00:20if she's innocent you know that sucks
2:00:22but at the same time if she's not then
2:00:25she needs to be where she is so it's
2:00:27kind of this hard thing that i've been
2:00:30juggling in my head
2:00:31ever guilt and innocence so it really
2:00:33helps to have you here
2:00:34and to look at the 9-1-1 call and
2:00:37if anyone in um in chat wants to ask a
2:00:41question before
2:00:43we wrap this up um
2:00:46i know you know we have a little bit of
2:00:49time
2:00:50maybe like a couple more minutes let's
2:00:53see real quick if there's any questions
2:00:55yeah you gave me a few because i'm kind
2:00:57of like i go back and forth to what i
2:00:59think
2:00:59guilty or innocent but you gave me a few
2:01:02things that uh
2:01:03kind of swayed me uh maybe swayed me one
2:01:06way or the other
2:01:07i gotta i gotta think about it but wow
2:01:10interesting important that we don't have
2:01:12an emotional investment
2:01:14in the cases and analysts especially
2:01:17when they're trained this way
2:01:19they do so many statements that they
2:01:21become pretty much indifferent to person
2:01:25only the language begins to cling to
2:01:27them and they bond to that language
2:01:29they let the language guide them so i
2:01:32often find that
2:01:33especially in public cases but a person
2:01:36who i really think is a really lousy
2:01:38human being didn't do it
2:01:42and a person who i really think is a
2:01:43good human being
2:01:45really did it or our heroes let us down
2:01:48and people that we think are failure
2:01:50sometimes do heroic things
2:01:52that's human nature it's very complex
2:01:54beyond mine
2:01:55i understand you that's a great way of
2:01:58putting it
2:02:00well people didn't like darling because
2:02:02of the silly string
2:02:04and the weird behavior
2:02:07i'm glad i was able to analyze that
2:02:09without knowing any of those things
2:02:11yeah definitely i don't see any other
2:02:15questions everybody's just thanking you
2:02:16and saying
2:02:17you know good job and do you see any
2:02:19questions bill i don't see any actually
2:02:22um not
2:02:25really i guess all right well i guess i
2:02:29do have one put
2:02:30this is the only question i see so far
2:02:32kate mccoy says what does he think about
2:02:34the innocence
2:02:34project becoming involved as
2:02:38she says as he clearly thinks she's
2:02:39guilty thank you so do you have any
2:02:41feelings about that
2:02:43about the innocence project yeah i'm
2:02:45concerned that it's more political than
2:02:47anything else
2:02:49um do you remember the reuben hurricane
2:02:52carter
2:02:53the bob dylan song it's
2:02:56really one of his best songs and it's
2:02:59the angry lyrics
2:03:00but he did it and once the uh
2:03:03some of the transcripts were released he
2:03:06he wrote and played that in 75
2:03:09um to the best of my understanding i
2:03:11don't think he's ever played it since
2:03:14so he made this big plea and all
2:03:15celebrities got involved and they raised
2:03:17money
2:03:17but he really did it
2:03:21yeah i'm never a fan of celebrities
2:03:25in general but usually when when they
2:03:28get on board something's
2:03:29is usually a miss
2:03:33like a publicity thing yes and
2:03:36um appearance is very important to them
2:03:39they're able to they're very talented
2:03:41they're able to dissociate you know
2:03:43at least the actors associate from
2:03:45reality with ease
2:03:49yeah but when they get involved with the
2:03:50cause i i generally look
2:03:53with politicians as well i generally
2:03:56look a little bit deeper
2:03:58and i'm hesitant to join in
2:04:02yeah i hear you yeah i don't know i
2:04:05don't really see any other questions um
2:04:07thank you so much for coming on peter
2:04:09that was very interesting
2:04:11yes again yeah thank you i really
2:04:14appreciate you
2:04:15and we dropped your link and you're
2:04:17leaving you put your link in chat and
2:04:19we'll put it um
2:04:20i'll put in the description but yeah
2:04:22we've been sharing it in the chat your
2:04:24uh channel so
2:04:25hopefully some people will come
2:04:28check it out you know because yeah
2:04:31you're really
2:04:32underrated right now on youtube and you
2:04:34weren't putting out that many videos
2:04:36this like a week ago you started putting
2:04:38out like what was it like two i was like
2:04:40wow mr hyatt where have you been
2:04:44i have this easy iphone um
2:04:47so i have to do something a little
2:04:49better about that and then finally after
2:04:51so many complaints in the comments i got
2:04:53a little
2:04:54microphone up here and then i took me
2:04:56days to figure out how to do it
2:04:59so i probably will try to do more videos
2:05:02going forward
2:05:03of different cases what i'd like to do
2:05:06is i like to switch roles and interview
2:05:07other people
2:05:08i used to interview a lot and i don't do
2:05:10it much anymore and i enjoy that
2:05:12i enjoy getting information from others
2:05:17i know you did an interview last week
2:05:19i'm not going this
2:05:21this week this past week i'm not going
2:05:22to give away who it was
2:05:24but um you have a really big interview
2:05:27where you're going to be a part of and
2:05:29i'm excited to see that
2:05:31so um
2:05:42very good at what they do yeah and
2:05:44you're really good at what you do so
2:05:46that your combination with them i am
2:05:50like i said that's like like an epic
2:05:53show for me like can't i cannot wait for
2:05:56that
2:05:57that's gonna be amazing journalism has
2:06:00changed a lot over the years
2:06:02and i've become more and more cautious
2:06:04about it
2:06:05too often a journalist has an agenda and
2:06:08the
2:06:09accepted boundaries of journalism
2:06:11they've always been pushed but
2:06:14in the last few years it's changed
2:06:15dramatically and so i i'm
2:06:18i'm cautious about where i go on and
2:06:19that sort of thing
2:06:21yeah well we appreciate you yeah i
2:06:25we are very we're so honored and i'm
2:06:28especially honored because i've been
2:06:29talking to you about today you coming on
2:06:31today
2:06:31you you have no idea what that means to
2:06:34me for you to come on
2:06:36today because i know how busy you are
2:06:38this week
2:06:39so thank you so much for yes thank you
2:06:41thank you
2:06:43thank you everybody all righty bye peter
2:06:45thanks good night
2:06:47all right um oh let me wow that was
2:06:50awesome
2:06:52wow and that was really interesting um
2:06:56i don't even know what to say i was just
2:06:58like taking everything he was saying
2:07:00and i don't yeah i'm gonna i'm probably
2:07:02rewatch that and
2:07:04think about everything he said it was
2:07:06very interesting um and thank you guys
2:07:08all the chat
2:07:09thank you guys for coming um i am going
2:07:11to end this i'm not going to
2:07:12drag this live on because i don't want
2:07:14it it's two hours perfect
2:07:16all right bella well thank you tomorrow
2:07:18we got a big live coming up too so
2:07:20oh that's right you guys yeah with uh dr
2:07:23amy salerno so live
2:07:29yeah that'll be 8 30 tomorrow eastern
2:07:31time um we'll be talking about summer
2:07:33wells case and the aidan fuji case
2:07:35um why i should say tristan bailey case
2:07:38summer wells interesting bailey case um
2:07:40so yeah come with questions guys please
2:07:43because
2:07:44we don't really have like a planned
2:07:46agenda i mean we're gonna hit on some
2:07:47points but like
2:07:48we're really counting on like some good
2:07:50questions and stuff to kind of lead the
2:07:52lead the interview um because i don't
2:07:55really have any
2:07:56any questions planned yet i should work
2:07:57on that i haven't got any emails you
2:07:59guys are supposed to be emailing me
2:08:00questions
2:08:03um i don't think there's any comments i
2:08:05i posted in my community post and i
2:08:08don't think there's even any comments
2:08:09under that i'm like
2:08:11but if you like it you gotta check the
2:08:13community post sometimes
2:08:15yeah but yeah so just email me i'm
2:08:18having
2:08:19my proton mail though i'm having trouble
2:08:22it keeps filling up and i'm trying to
2:08:23delete i've deleted so many emails last
2:08:25couple days to try to clear it out
2:08:27and then i get new ones and it's just
2:08:28filling right back up so
2:08:30let me put my gmail um just in case
2:08:34for for the next couple days if you well
2:08:37for this
2:08:37interview for the amusement lunar
2:08:39interview if you have questions
2:08:40email my gmail email i'm gonna put it up
2:08:44just so to make sure i get it because
2:08:46i'm not getting all my proton because
2:08:48i'm having trouble keeping up with
2:08:50deleting them
2:08:51okay gmail okay all right so yeah
2:08:54um thank you again guys and i'm going to
2:08:57end this here bella do you want to say
2:08:58bye before i
2:08:59end this just want to say thanks to
2:09:01everyone for being here
2:09:03and it's just good to get lots of sides
2:09:05you guys
2:09:06and to get as much information as we can
2:09:09and
2:09:10you know take we do have to take the
2:09:12emotion out of stuff we're just
2:09:13gathering
2:09:14information and um it's good to hear
2:09:17experts talk about what they're really
2:09:19good at in their field
2:09:21and just because i there was a few
2:09:23people saying i don't agree but that's
2:09:24totally fine like even he said like he
2:09:26likes the criticism and
2:09:28you know i guess i wish i would have
2:09:31maybe uh
2:09:32well no no never mind i put up the
2:09:34questions the questions that i did see
2:09:36um but um yeah you don't necessarily
2:09:39have to
2:09:39agree with everything he said um so
2:09:43yeah i feel like i want to watch it
2:09:44again and kind of
2:09:46take notes i guess and because i'm still
2:09:49trying to figure out myself how i feel i
2:09:51don't know like i am like
2:09:52i go back and forth like what i think
2:09:55like some days i'll hear something i'll
2:09:57be like
2:09:57leaning more towards this way and then
2:09:59i'll hear something else and i'll and
2:10:00it's just like i i feel like i am
2:10:02like in the middle like i don't know i
2:10:04don't i feel like i can't pick
2:10:06that i feel want more one way or the
2:10:08other at this point
2:10:09honestly so um it's a confusing case
2:10:13but it's statement analysis is a tool
2:10:16it's a tool to have in your toolbox of
2:10:19and i mean
2:10:20not like have like now worse statement
2:10:22analysis
2:10:23no like okay this is the creme de la
2:10:26creme of statement
2:10:27analysis people and he's giving
2:10:31us a view into his world and why they
2:10:35come up
2:10:36with and the reasoning behind it makes
2:10:38perfect sense to me
2:10:40i mean because yeah so yeah i mean it
2:10:44you know but thank you guys all for
2:10:46being here
2:10:47and thanks for and try to hit the thumbs
2:10:50up
2:10:51if you liked it on the way out and if
2:10:53you're not subscribed because i know so
2:10:54many of you guys aren't subbed to the
2:10:56channel
2:10:57if you do like us please think about
2:10:59subscribing because it's so much easier
2:11:01to find us
2:11:02when you are subscribed than having to
2:11:05type in zap girl every time and
2:11:07you know you'll get notifications it's
2:11:09just a lot better that way
2:11:11yeah and then don't forget tomorrow guys
2:11:13we got amy selena i'm excited so
2:11:16yeah try to yeah either at 8 30.
2:11:19so um all right guys we'll have a good
2:11:21day and uh
2:11:24let's chat tomorrow bye

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