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Vuoi Aprire Un Business Mai Visto in Italia? Guarda Questo Video — Transcript

by Marco Montemagno · 6,980 words · 1,155 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Hey Monti, will you help me create the
0:02best chess café in Milan?
0:04>> I'm on my way.
0:05Every week, I meet someone who has a
0:08work problem and I try to help them out
0:11with an expert, a guest, or my team of
0:13AI agents.
0:16And even though I personally don't know
0:19anything, I really try to be useful by
0:20offering my experience as a "
0:22differently young" person and some sound
0:24, bald-headed common sense.
0:26>> In London, for example, there are tons
0:28of chess pubs, but in Milan, not one.
0:30The very first topic is the location.
0:33With a good offer, it can generate 1
0:35million euros on its own.
0:37>> It’s the home of chess; maybe we can
0:38take on this initiative together.
0:40>> The team is ready.
0:44Ah,
0:44>> here we are. Hey, my friend, how are you
0:46?
0:46>> Hello.
0:47>> Finally, we're talking about chess. I’ve
0:49already noted down where we’re starting
0:51today and where we want to go regarding
0:53chess.
0:55First, help me understand the starting
0:57point of the project, and then we'll
0:59dive in.
1:00I also have a surprise for you.
1:02So, the starting point is the idea of
1:05creating a place that acts as a home for
1:08chess, a home for a community that
1:10already exists, is very active in Milan
1:13, and currently fills up venues by
1:15borrowing them, organizing chess nights
1:18: chess and beer, chess and cocktails,
1:21chess and meetings.
1:24I mean that people, from my point of
1:25view, by experiencing these communities
1:27, have an increasing need to meet in
1:29real life, not just on a screen.
1:31Chess, as you know, has had
1:33extraordinary, exponential growth.
1:35>> Exactly. Excuse me, in London, for
1:37example, there are tons of chess pubs.
1:39>> Exactly. In Milan, not a single one. And
1:41that is exactly the idea.
1:43The idea is to create a chess café, a
1:46place that combines high-level dining—
1:50accessible, but of extraordinary quality
1:53.
1:55This is because Milan is currently
1:57oversaturated with new restaurants and
1:59new ideas, and there's a need for
2:00uniqueness and excellence to create a
2:02place that truly works.
2:04In my opinion, a place where the chess
2:09mood and theme elevates the experience,
2:14while still maintaining high-quality
2:18dining, could be a total winner.
2:22>> A winning formula. And you guys.
2:24We should also start with the strength
2:26of having an existing association or
2:28group.
2:29>> Yes, I collaborate and work with an
2:31association called Scacchia Colori, okay
2:33?
2:34>> Which will soon have a base in Milan to
2:36hold courses and so on, but lacks a real
2:38home for its active community.
2:41However, we have a WhatsApp group where
2:43we organize tournaments with 700
2:44registered and active members
2:47>> and, um, 200-300 people who attend the
2:51tournaments weekly. Ok. That’s already
2:54very good activity, even without a
2:57physical location yet.
2:58>> Perfect.
3:00So, let's say there is an embryo, the
3:02beginning of a community, there is
3:04obviously knowledge of the chess world,
3:07and you also have a background in the
3:09restaurant industry.
3:11>> Background in the restaurant industry. I
3:12handle communication for many venues in
3:14Milan. I’ve handled the startup for
3:16several places, the Bettolina, and so on
3:17. Ok, perfect. And the final goal—
3:20ideally, if we meet again in a year,
3:22what is the situation you’d like to have
3:24reached? Even less than a year: find a
3:28venue to create a shared space where
3:32people can meet and experience the world
3:36of chess.
3:38The idea is also to create a space for
3:40those who create chess content; this
3:42happens, for example, at Blitz Society
3:44in Paris, a venue that opened 4 years
3:46ago and is doing great—it's the meeting
3:48point for all chess streamers,
3:51>> ok?
3:52And similarly, the idea is to create a
3:55dedicated room where people can go to
3:57play on YouTube, on Twitch, to unite the
4:00physical and the digital in a place that
4:02can become the digital hub for real-life
4:05chess.
4:06So
4:07>> all right.
4:07>> A kind of hub. Exactly.
4:08>> Let's say your hub would be a bit of a
4:11reference point regarding
4:13>> but my dream is the best restaurant in
4:15Milan where you can also play chess.
4:18Then chess is absolutely the protagonist
4:21. The idea is for the Wi-Fi password to
4:23be the first four moves of
4:24Fischer-Spassky from '72
4:26>> and for everyone to know them
4:28>> No, but if you walk in, you probably
4:29won't have to ask me for the password
4:31because it's written down. That, or
4:32putting a tablet in the bathroom with "
4:35solve before flush" with a chess problem
4:38to be able to flush the toilet, and so
4:41on...basically playing on this sense of
4:44belonging, creating a community within
4:47it with founding members, creators,
4:50involving them in the venue to keep it
4:53always alive.
4:54>> Very interesting. I have a lot of
4:57questions for you, but first I have a
4:59surprise.
5:01I have a guest who, when it comes to the
5:03restaurant business, venues, and more,
5:05knows his stuff.
5:07Let me introduce you to Antonio Scivita
5:08. Here is Antonio. Hi, my friend, how
5:11are you?
5:11>> Hi Marco, it’s a great pleasure to see
5:14you again. Antonio,
5:15>> I listened with great interest. Uh,
5:18>> so, so, so Antonio, obviously
5:20>> I already have 100 questions. No,
5:22actually, I have a 1,000 of them too.
5:25Antonio, Panino Giusto, clearly.
5:28By the way, I’m always at Panino Giusto
5:30, I know it sounds like the episode
5:32sponsor, it’s not, but I am always at
5:35Panino Giusto.
5:36Listen, what’s your take from this first
5:38introduction?
5:40Wow, I really like it.
5:42I like it a lot because you also talked
5:45about quality; usually, those who start
5:47from a central theme like the world of
5:49chess think that food should just be a
5:52support.
5:54In reality, aiming for a qualitative
5:56experience, obviously tailoring it to
5:59tournament times, to the players '
6:01schedules, and to budgets—also because
6:03the first questions I asked myself were
6:06: "You mentioned a high-level restaurant
6:08, but
6:10>> high level means high quality, great
6:12attention, technique; it doesn't
6:14necessarily mean high costs, absolutely
6:16not.
6:17Panino Giusto is, in my opinion, a very
6:20good benchmark level.
6:22So, I believe it can absolutely work,
6:25because you mentioned earlier the
6:26incredible presence of restaurants in
6:29Milan,
6:30>> exaggerated even,
6:31>> and so I think that specializing a venue
6:33, focusing on verticality, on something
6:36that is very appealing and transversal
6:39today—my children and I play chess, I’m
6:42terrible at it, but I enjoy it—can be
6:44successful.
6:46Of course, numbers are what rule, and we
6:48have to be extremely precise about those
6:50.
6:51A few considerations. When I think in my
6:55digital mind, I'm purely digital.
6:59I don’t have, let’s say, the analog, the
7:01physical, the venue, the shop: I’ve
7:03never touched them in my life because,
7:05how should I put it, as soon as I enter
7:06those walls I think:" No, the walls.
7:09"In short, digital is so much easier.
7:11When one talks about a venue, is it
7:14possible to hypothesize a single
7:16location that has economic
7:17sustainability, or today must you
7:20necessarily have scalability and
7:22therefore multiple locations?
7:24Maybe you start with one, but then you
7:27know you have to say," Okay, in Italy we
7:30have 10 chess bars and then we expand.
7:33"Everyone's ambition, right, is to start
7:36from one point but dream big.
7:39So, when you described your project, I
7:42can't help but think if Chess Café Milan
7:45works, why shouldn't a Chess Café work
7:47in Rome or other cities?
7:50>> By the way, in Rome, there is an equally
7:52strong chess community that we are in
7:54contact with, and in all the European
7:56cities where a chess café is opening, a
7:58strong community is being created; it
8:00unites, it finds a home.
8:02Well, that could be an ambition.
8:05Actually, I’ll answer in a bit of a
8:07provocative way: it’s often much easier
8:09to make money with a single location
8:12than by opening 10. Because, with a
8:14single location, you can dedicate
8:16yourself entirely to the place, without
8:19loading yourself with the costs of a
8:21back office—which, for the first few
8:23locations, usually eats up all your
8:26margins because you start thinking," I
8:28need a marketing manager, an IT manager
8:30, an HR manager.
8:32"So no, I don't see any critical issues
8:34there; in fact, I don't know if I'm
8:36making myself clear. If so,
8:37>> no, certainly.
8:39Then it's true that being able to scale
8:41costs—for example, I’m talking to some
8:43potential restaurant partners.
8:46With these partners I’ve spoken with,
8:47there's always a kitchen already up and
8:49running that can handle production more
8:50easily from that perspective.
8:53Yeah, that—that is essential, but I
8:56believe that if we can get the first
8:58project off the ground and working...
9:01>> that is the best way to imagine the
9:03expansion,
9:04>> so you still start from there, from
9:06patient zero.
9:08If it works, it's very easy to develop
9:09it.
9:11If I had to say what I need to solve to
9:13get here, it’s A, B, and C. What are the
9:15main points on which...
9:18>> Well, right now I’ve built a project,
9:20I’ve hypothesized all the phases of the
9:23project, and we've even found a couple
9:25of possible locations.
9:27Okay?
9:28>> The location is obviously the first
9:30hurdle to clear.
9:32For instance, we’ve just found a
9:34location with an owner who fell in love
9:36with the project and is willing to join
9:38the company with a rent-for-equity deal
9:40, so with a significant reduction in
9:42costs, but we still have to cover the
9:44cost of...
9:46>> restyling
9:47>> restyling and renovation, especially
9:49with the idea of creating a premium,
9:51quote-unquote, space. So, right now, my
9:53difficulty is actually finding the
9:55funding for all these pieces. Okay.
9:58I feel like I have a project that works
10:00, one I would invest in, and I would
10:01invest all my time into it, of course,
10:03but it’s currently missing someone who
10:05believes in it, an investor who believes
10:07in it.
10:08>> What kind of investment are we talking
10:10about?
10:10>> Obviously, it depends on the location we
10:13find, so the business plan has to be
10:15created ad hoc. Let's say for the space
10:17we found, which is a very beautiful
10:19place, in my opinion, we’re talking
10:20about 300,000 to 400,000 euros to start
10:22.
10:22>> Okay. How many square meters is it?
10:24>> 200 and change.
10:26If you want, Marco, I’ll tell you what I
10:29think, but for me, the funding issue
10:32isn't the number one priority. The first
10:35absolute topic is the location and the
10:37strength of the business plan and the
10:38idea,
10:40>> because today there is an intimidating
10:42desire to invest, as you know, there is
10:44significant liquidity and there are also
10:46business angels who are probably lovers
10:48of the" cheque ".
10:51So I'm not saying that funds can be
10:53found everywhere, but I would put at the
10:55center, as a priority of priorities, the
10:57location,
11:00>> because ours is a location business,
11:03>> okay?
11:04>> The right location,
11:06>> what are the characteristics of the
11:08right location for you?
11:09>> For him, I would say one thing: an
11:11economical location, or rather, a
11:14destination.
11:15The person who comes, takes the car and
11:17comes, does not have to be on a
11:19high-traffic street, especially because
11:21if you say" But I want this or that, "
11:23you have to know that today in Milan 200
11:26sqm cost € 300,000 in rent in the center
11:28of Milan, in the nice areas.
11:30>> If you want, I'll give you a couple of
11:32numbers on what we found, which is a
11:34place in Piero della Francesca, so a
11:36very good area, and the rent cost is
11:38around € 80,000 per year.
11:39>> Excellent. Okay,
11:40>> without a premium for entry.
11:42There is a severance payment to give in
11:44January when the current contract
11:46expires, it's 18 months of rent.
11:48>> Exactly. We have to give them exactly
11:49that.
11:49>> It’s a restaurant.
11:50>> It’s a restaurant. A bee, it’s a brewery
11:53.
11:54>> Excuse me, what would this entry premium
11:56be?
11:56>> In Italy, there is a law that says at
11:58the end of 12 years if you don't renew
12:01the contract, I am entitled to
12:03compensation of 18 months of rent.
12:05If you rent to a person who does a
12:08different business. Okay.
12:10>> If, instead, you rent to a similar
12:13business, a brewery, it’s 36 months, so
12:16€ 80, € 250,000 to pay.
12:19>> Yes, that’s 100. So there it would be,
12:22there it would be
12:22>> it’s not up for debate, there it would
12:24be € 180,000 because at the moment they
12:26were paying € 60,000 from
12:28>> Okay. Italy always surprises you from
12:30these points of view,
12:31>> but it seems we are reaching an
12:32agreement for more or less half, so
12:35>> so you say the location characteristics
12:36are, let's say, economical, so a good
12:38value for money, destination, that
12:40people are already
12:41>> destination in the sense that it is
12:43acceptable even outside the center
12:45because people come anyway, okay?
12:48>> So I lower the rent cost by moving it
12:50from a more expensive area because
12:51people are willing to reach me to play,
12:54>> because you’re going to live an
12:55experience anyway.
12:56Example: La Bettolina in Gaggiano is a
12:58destination, it's a fantastic restaurant
13:00, it's very inconvenient, but people
13:02always fill it up.
13:03>> I feel like saying something trivial,
13:04but in the restaurant business, it never
13:06is: parking. Be careful that whoever
13:08comes
13:09>> to a destination is easier.
13:10>> Very well said. And you say you drive
13:12around for half an hour to find parking
13:14,
13:14>> It's a pain in the ass.
13:15>> It's a limitation. Grabbing a coffee and
13:17going out is one thing.
13:18>> The alternative is a central,
13:20well-served location. There's a subway
13:21line there, that could work. I'm not
13:23sure if that's an issue there, whether
13:25there's parking, but I must say 80,000
13:27euros for 200 meters on Via Piero della
13:30Francesca is excellent.
13:31>> Yes, but why is the owner involved in
13:33the project?
13:35>> Well, it's excellent, but if I'm
13:37starting a startup, I'd think twice
13:39before giving away equity.
13:43Equity is the most expensive thing.
13:44>> So, it's clear you have the location,
13:46but I always think," Maybe I'll pay for
13:48the location, but I'll keep the equity
13:50because if the project grows... "I don't
13:52know, how do you see it?
13:54I'll say this: banks can finance 30-50%
13:58of well-organized projects, not more,
14:01with 6-year unsecured loans and a
14:04one-year grace period so you have time
14:07to start paying. And that's the classic
14:09way.
14:11But I'll also say this, and you might
14:13know this since you're in the restaurant
14:15business, that for a project like this,
14:18sponsors—like beer, coffee, or other
14:20products—can support you in the startup
14:23phase, especially if you go to the big
14:25ones: Lavazza, Illy, etc.;sometimes beer
14:28companies, 10 years ago, would pay for
14:30the whole venue.
14:32>> Really?
14:33>> Guys, I'm getting an education here. I
14:35was here thinking I'd share some ideas,
14:37but I'm learning a ton.
14:38>> But in exchange, you had to commit to
14:40carrying that beer for 10 years. Yes,
14:42exactly. Right.
14:43>> Ah, okay. That line of beers.
14:46So I'd push for that, because 30 here,
14:4850 there, 30 there...because as he says
14:51, you dilute yourself too much at the
14:53start, and if things go well, it's not
14:56ideal, so a good mix would be perfect.
15:00I always say you can find partners to
15:03finance you if they are synergistic with
15:06your project; for example, if someone
15:08gives you the location at a special
15:11price, that’s a synergistic partner,
15:14which is great.
15:16So if you find synergistic, passionate
15:18partners, they might be the ones who
15:20believe in the project for the long haul
15:21.
15:22So if you let me take a look inside, we
15:24can reason through it together. I could
15:26introduce Lavazza and others since we
15:30have many sponsors.
15:32>> A thought on the audience, because you
15:36rightly say these are chess enthusiasts
15:40or players.
15:42>> The attendance of the Milanese
15:43communities really struck me.
15:47As for the young people—by young, I mean
15:49university students and people in their
15:52forties, who are almost the majority—
15:54the old stereotype of the club elder has
15:56faded a bit.
15:59I also frequent Milanese clubs, and it's
16:01the same there: so many young people
16:03coming from schools and all the growth
16:05they've experienced since.
16:08It’s an eager crowd, people in their
16:10twenties and thirties who really want to
16:12meet in the places that make up everyday
16:15Milan; they’re not necessarily high
16:17spenders, but they are used to the
16:19Milanese dining scene. I mean,
16:21>> clearly.
16:22The cool thing about chess, I think—
16:24well, I've been totally obsessed for 3
16:26years, so chess is a strange thing,
16:27right?
16:28but
16:29>> it hooks you.
16:30>> Yes, I mean, once you’re in, you can’t
16:32get out; it’s something that really
16:34grabs you.
16:36But I think the interesting thing about
16:39chess as a social tool is that even if
16:41you're shy and you go somewhere where
16:44you don't know anyone, you sit behind a
16:47board, and you don't have to start a
16:49conversation immediately: it starts
16:52mediated by this magical world, and it's
16:55an intelligent mediation, not a silly
16:57one, it’s intelligent, right?
17:00And this creates a different kind of
17:03connection. Exactly,
17:04>> there’s a saying that a chess game is a
17:06conversation.
17:09>> And it really is, and that’s what
17:11happens at these meetups: both in the
17:14tournament part, where you have these
17:16very quick encounters, almost like a
17:19speed date between people—I’ve met so
17:21many people I later became close with—
17:24and when you play more freely.
17:28And it's incredible how you can find
17:30common ground so easily, mediated by the
17:32game itself. Well, that doesn't apply to
17:34me because I only play to win, so if I
17:35lose, I’m not talking to you anymore,
17:37I’ll never speak to you again.
17:38>> Since I love sports a lot, if I get
17:40carried away,
17:42>> but do you hate your opponent when you
17:43play chess?
17:44>> No, I
17:45>> no, because
17:45>> I write—I write a lot about chess.
17:48I wrote an article for' Il Post 'that is
17:50an ode to defeat, in the sense that it
17:52talks about
17:53>> it's an ode to the defeat of others,
17:55>> right? what you learn by losing at chess
17:57.
17:59I invite you to read it because you
18:00actually learn so much by losing at
18:02chess, and it tells of an episode where
18:04I played against this girl who had a
18:05higher rating than me in a long-format
18:07tournament.
18:10At one point, I made a brilliant move—
18:11the kind with two exclamation points on
18:13Chess.com—and when she looked at the
18:15move, she didn't show any disapproval;
18:17she just said," Nice, well done.
18:20"She shook my hand, with almost a mutual
18:22satisfaction of having witnessed
18:23something beautiful. I don't mind that,
18:25no. I would never do that to you, I'm
18:27sorry.
18:28But you never hate your opponent when
18:30they corner you, not because they’re
18:31stronger or because they beat me at
18:33chess. I hate it when I make a stupid
18:35mistake, when I make a blunder.
18:37I hate certain attitudes you find in
18:39chess tournaments—wasting time,
18:41distractions, those kinds of things, the
18:43little tricks—but no, generally no.
18:46>> But it’s interesting because chess,
18:47compared to, say, table tennis, or even
18:49padel, tennis, or any other sport.
18:53In chess, however, I’ve been to a couple
18:56of places, chess schools and academies,
18:58where I’ve been in Rome and Turin; and
19:01the thing that really struck me is that
19:03you play: when the game ends, both with
19:06your opponent and the people watching, a
19:09discussion begins.
19:12>> About the game, saying," Oh, but did you
19:15have this move here?
19:17"" Ah, but what if I play this instead?
19:20"So it’s a collective brainstorming
19:22session for improvement, which is really
19:24beautiful, so chess, within a venue,
19:26clearly has this variety.
19:29The idea is to have someone act as a
19:31community manager, maybe manage some
19:33courses, and allow for the creation of a
19:35supported community—meaning it’s
19:37obviously not just left to its own
19:39devices.
19:41Both the part linked to streaming—and
19:43streaming also simply means the social
19:46aspect connected to someone who is more
19:49or less always present—and the physical
19:51part of chess.
19:53>> Okay. So what needs to happen to make
19:55this project a reality?
19:57Number one, focus on the location with
19:59these, let's say, two characteristics.
20:02Let’s pretend for a moment that this is
20:04the right location. Okay.
20:06At that point, in your opinion, what is
20:08the next step?
20:09>> A good accountant to put together a
20:10business plan.
20:12>> Sorry, I don’t go to—I don’t go to
20:15accoun...
20:17>> We can do it together. Excuse the
20:19presumption. Eh, sorry—sorry everyone,
20:22eh. Claude, make the business plan for
20:24...
20:24>> Very good. And we will do it again. No,
20:27look, the point is this, that...
20:28>> Look, a shout-out to the accountants who
20:30are sponsoring this video.
20:32>> When I prepare the P&L for a location
20:35I'm opening, I do some geomarketing
20:37studies of the area to see what the foot
20:40traffic is and who the frequent
20:42customers might be.
20:45You have the whole community here on top
20:48of the regular foot traffic, so you have
20:51options, but I break down the 365 days
20:54by morning, lunch, and dinner flows.
20:58So, how many people come in the morning
21:00, how many at lunch, and how many at
21:01dinner.
21:02How much do they spend in the morning,
21:03at lunch, and at dinner?
21:05You have an advantage here because you
21:07already know how many events you'll hold
21:10, the average number of attendees, and
21:12how many people, based on your
21:14experience, come to play.
21:16This needs to be broken down by time of
21:18day, but I think it will be mostly
21:20afternoon and evening.
21:21>> Afternoon and evening. Actually, the CES
21:23Café in Paris only opens in the
21:24afternoon.
21:25>> And indeed, I imagine—
21:27>> But if we leverage the Piero della
21:28Francesca area, it makes sense to open
21:30in the morning too, handling breakfasts
21:31, handling—exactly.
21:33At that point, be very precise about the
21:36average ticket.
21:38When a chess player comes to spend an
21:39afternoon, there's already a cost, I
21:41imagine—the fee, the tournament entry.
21:43The idea—well, as it's currently managed
21:46by Scacchi a Colori, at the various
21:48locations you pay a fee for the
21:50tournament, about € 12, which includes
21:52the beer provided by Doppio Malto.
21:54Exactly. After that, everyone spends a
21:57bit more on average.
21:59But in your mind, knowing this place, is
22:01it a spot where someone staying for 3
22:04hours at dinnertime is going to spend 10
22:06, 20, or 50?
22:07Well, no,
22:08>> it depends a lot on the different time
22:10slots. An average ticket of 15-20 is
22:13definitely—
22:14>> and we need to start from those numbers
22:16. At that point, we just have to say
22:19morning, lunch, dinner.
22:22I always split it between weekdays and
22:24weekends because I always calculate 250
22:27weekdays and 100 weekend days, leaving
22:3015 out, because you know Saturday and
22:32Sunday are the big days in the
22:34restaurant business.
22:36Period.
22:37>> Did you say 250 days? Yes, 250 weekdays
22:40and 100—and 100—
22:42>> 100
22:43>> 100 weekend days, because in Milan,
22:45Saturday and Sunday aren't just
22:47two-sevenths, they're almost
22:49three-sevenths because on weekends you
22:51have extended hours; I mean, on Saturday
22:54you eat at noon or at 3:00. Right.
22:56>> So, at that point, we need to start
22:58saying we have 50 people for breakfast
23:00in the morning based on the flow, and 70
23:02on Sunday, and they spend € 4. Economic
23:05account. At lunch, we have 40 and 100,
23:08yeah. the events and we need to sketch
23:11out the income aspect.
23:13>> What kind of revenue do you expect from
23:14a place like this?
23:15>> Via Piero della Francesca depends on the
23:17format you choose.
23:19You called it a café, if I may, eh.
23:21>> to me that’s a bit reductive.
23:23>> I agree. Café,
23:25>> eh. So I’d put something there that
23:26makes it clear it's not just a café. I
23:28liked the concept of a home, like Casa
23:31Cipriani. The concept of a home.
23:33>> Yes, it's already something more. The
23:35name I gave the project, well obviously
23:37it's all.
23:38>> Ah, I only say this because" café "
23:39gives the idea of just coffee.
23:41>> The project is called Empassan.
23:42>> Empassan.
23:43>> Empassan because you eat En Passant.
23:46>> Exactly.
23:47>> That was the thing I liked and the
23:48subtitle.
23:50But it's also something that, for those
23:52who don't understand chess, looks like a
23:55French word and they accept it.
23:57>> Well, you’ve done marketing so you’re
23:59good at this.
23:59>> The other option was calling it Milano
24:01Chess Collective. See, I’d include
24:03Milano because it gives pride to the
24:05Milanese community, but
24:07>> there's the Milano stop, but this is
24:10marketing—from my social experience,
24:12Italians don't speak English.
24:16It's incredible how everyone—so I
24:17wouldn't use French or English words,
24:19but you are marketing even in downtown
24:21Milan where Italians are always...
24:23>> Yes. But, for instance, I wouldn't use"
24:26chess, "I'd use" scacchi, "just as
24:28feedback.
24:30I'm telling you, based on 15 years of
24:32social media content tests, the moment
24:34you use an English word, there's a
24:37massive drop in engagement because
24:39people say," What is this?
24:41"Never tried it.
24:42>> Or they say," Why do they have to use
24:44...we're Italian, "so it’s just a
24:47feeling. But that's secondary in terms
24:49of communication, but I was wondering
24:52which...
24:53>> For me, Via Piero della Francesca, but
24:55again, it depends on the format.
24:57If you do a bistro format—meaning
25:00breakfast, lunch, brunch, aperitivo zone
25:03, evening—well, Via Piero della
25:05Francesca is a location that, with a
25:08good offering, can do 1 million euros on
25:11its own.
25:12I mean, if I opened a Panino Giusto on
25:14Via Piero della Francesca, I’d do
25:16between 1.5 and 2 million.
25:17>> Okay.
25:18And what are the costs in your analog
25:21world?
25:24Of
25:24>> because in our world, you have a 92%
25:27margin on that 1.5 million. No, no, no.
25:31>> We have 92%in costs, so no.
25:34We have three magic numbers, you know?
25:36Location cost, staff cost, and food cost
25:39.
25:40Staff usually costs 60 points in normal
25:42operations.
25:44If you're skilled, you can optimize
25:46based on what you do. Location, another
25:4810%.
25:50This is the number everyone knows.
25:52Milan has become more expensive today,
25:54but you could stay there because it's a
25:55great rent.
25:57Usually, you then have another 10 points
25:59for general costs, utilities, that sort
26:01of thing. If you're good, you make a 20
26:03%profit. That’s the 20%calculation; you
26:07have to add this component to it here.
26:12>> Yes, the component that can provide an
26:14additional source of income anyway,
26:16something.
26:17>> Yes. You have to break it down by how
26:19many people come and how much they spend
26:21.
26:23The point you made at the beginning,
26:25though, is key in my opinion: managing
26:27to create a venue where even someone who
26:29doesn't like chess comes to eat a
26:30sandwich, and that's not trivial.
26:34>> And that it's not just for insiders. Get
26:37it?
26:38Absolutely.
26:39>> When you tell me" something more, "I
26:41have to tell you I get a bit worried, in
26:44the sense that if you start entering the
26:46pasta and kitchen world,
26:48>> absolutely something more from that
26:49point of view.
26:50>> It's another world. I don't know if I'm
26:51making myself clear. If you start having
26:53a chef, pasta, a kitchen, food
26:56preparation, you enter another league.
26:59You have to think about this yourself.
27:01Do you feel like taking on that
27:03complication? Obviously,
27:05>> it depends on who the restaurant partner
27:08will be; I’m talking to a few potential
27:10partners in both cases.
27:13Both people I'm talking to already have
27:16a kitchen facility designed specifically
27:19so that it’s not without a chef, but of
27:22a very high quality.
27:25On this, I’ll take the liberty of giving
27:27you some advice:
27:30>> to make a very simple and high-quality
27:32offer with products that can be eaten at
27:34the table that don't have...You might
27:36say," Well, basically just sandwiches,
27:38right?
27:40"Exactly, almost, because it’s not easy
27:43to do real restaurant service in that
27:45kind of context, and then there are more
27:48margins for error.
27:51If you focus on one product and
27:55>> the chess aspect.
27:57>> So for me, replicability and simplicity
27:59can also be achieved with quality.
28:02>> Of course. Absolutely.
28:03>> And if you enter the world of kitchens,
28:05pasta, meat, fish—yes, but that’s a
28:07different sport.
28:09>> While you were talking, I—sorry if I
28:11expanded the business a bit just to get
28:12some revenue—you made me feel bad with
28:14your 20%, I said," Oh my, how sad.
28:17"Oh, no, no, no, I would sign up for
28:18that right now.
28:20I was thinking about, let's say, the
28:22digital layer to put on top of the place
28:24, okay?
28:26Because at that point one says:" Okay,
28:28once I have the location and once I have
28:31the chess sets, well, at that point
28:33number one, it becomes a place where I
28:35have permanent social media content.
28:38"I mean, I have so much chess-themed
28:40content originating there, from A
28:45Gotham Chess coming through Milan,
28:47they're already all invited.
28:49>> I mean, you get it? I mean, the
28:50chess-obsessed character who
28:53>> it seems to me you guys are already
28:54experts,
28:56>> I mean, that is to say you have a
28:58quantity of content, it becomes your
29:00content factory, the venue itself.
29:03Fantastic. Number two. From there also
29:05arises, in my opinion, a part of an
29:06academy, of training, with everything
29:08you sell online, because you already
29:10have them there anyway and, from time to
29:12time, you have the grandmaster's
29:13workshop who comes in, does the workshop
29:15, and that becomes content that goes
29:17into your Academy and you sell it. And,
29:19um, and, consider that with online
29:21courses you also do significant numbers
29:23, you know. Then there is theme three,
29:25the meetups.
29:26We were talking about it a bit before,
29:29but in my opinion if we think about
29:31padel, a cool thing about padel from my
29:33point of view was having apps where you
29:35don't know who to play with and you meet
29:38up.
29:39Playomic, Playomic. I mean, for ping
29:41pong we never had an app like that. So
29:44if you, I, in Brighton want to go
29:46practice ping pong, you have to call
29:48like a desperate person. Sorry, there's
29:50nothing. So, something where you start
29:53here but then you have a matchmaking app
29:55where I want to play chess, fantastic,
29:58where I am and maybe the first reference
30:00point is the café, but then it expands
30:03and becomes an app that has value.
30:05>> Chessmate.
30:07>> Exactly, the Chessmate of the moment.
30:09The last thing I was thinking about is
30:11that once the venue has its format, then
30:13it becomes a plugin for other places. So
30:16maybe Antonio says you could even
30:17franchise it,
30:18>> eh, at the right sandwich shop, excuse
30:20me, we want to host a chess night and he
30:23says," Look, I'll bring you 200 people
30:25because it's our format. "We manage
30:28everything ourselves, we bring the
30:30boards, we bring...I just had another
30:32idea, B2B,
30:34>> I mean, at Padel today there are a ton
30:37of companies that want to have B2B
30:40moments, team building, but they are
30:42tired of always doing the same old stuff
30:45, eh!
30:47And so they organize 20 people on the
30:50courts with four masters who, while
30:52playing, also bring out elements for...
30:55they are here, there are many more.
30:58Yes, even more.
30:59>> And Milan is the place.
31:00>> Absolutely.
31:01>> I mean, if they told me tomorrow to take
31:03all my managers to spend an afternoon
31:05playing chess and talking leadership.
31:07>> Beautiful. And Milan is full of
31:09opportunities for that, right? Because
31:11tactics are what you do when there's
31:13something to do, but strategy is what
31:15you do when there's nothing to do.
31:17Phrase.
31:17>> If you were to do it,
31:19>> stolen from Kasparov, I don't remember
31:20who said it first, but it's one of those
31:22classic lines, you've got a thousand of
31:23these.
31:28Because you find companies spending
31:30thousands just to spend an afternoon
31:32with the masters, hold their own
31:33tournament, tease each other, leave, say
31:35we had fun, we learned, and we made
31:37pizza.
31:39>> And then they come back as clients.
31:40>> So this Milan, I know
31:42>> this is a great habit.
31:43>> Absolutely.
31:44>> You know, sometimes you say things,
31:47>> because we actually do that, we
31:49>> you know how we do it? We have our
31:51sandwich master who prepares the
31:53sandwiches.
31:55There are companies, Prata just came to
31:56mind, that come in groups of 12 and
31:58everyone wants to, we even did it with
31:59Borghese once,
32:02>> 12 of them went, they had a € 50 budget
32:04at the market and with that they had to
32:07choose their products.
32:10Then they came back, prepared their
32:12recipe under the chefs' supervision, and
32:14finally ate their creation—problem
32:16solving, sticking to a budget, what I
32:18made, the tasting, the skill—and often a
32:21manager says," I actually had fun.
32:24"Oh, for sure.
32:25>> So I think you can do a lot of that here
32:27.
32:27>> Right here. Yeah, another idea—
32:29obviously I'm just jotting things down,
32:31gathering my thoughts.
32:34Another topic, in my opinion, useful for
32:37presenting a project to investors, etc.
32:40, is ambassadors, right?
32:44Because it's clear that having within
32:46the project not just the technical
32:48expertise, but also maybe some
32:50ambassadors who say," Oh, this is cool,
32:53I'm promoting it, "because imagine, I
32:55don't know, Wembanyama, a basketball
32:57player, becoming an ambassador for the
33:00New York Chess Club.
33:02I'm just making it up,
33:03>> by the way, more and more connections
33:05with the world of soccer are emerging
33:07now.
33:07Harry Kane just played with Gotham Chess
33:10because he's a passionate chess player,
33:13and Mbappé was playing on chess.com.
33:15Yeah.
33:16>> Salah too, he almost went.
33:20But there are many others, like Bocelli
33:22; I went to an event and Bocelli was
33:25there, a huge enthusiast, a wonderful
33:27guy, he had his whole chessboard, he was
33:30following everything, and you have a ton
33:32of fans of...
33:36>> So, let's say, an ambassador network
33:39helps bring things together; so, by
33:41putting all these pieces together into a
33:44great pitch, another nice thing would be
33:47to have some sort of open day
33:49presentation to also get the various
33:51investors to compete with each other,
33:54right?
33:56Yeah, like they do with real estate,
33:59where they tell you the story, and you
34:01hold that presentation moment, a kind of
34:03—if not a mini-tour—a great pitch; if
34:06you find two business angels, it's
34:08better than finding a fund because
34:10they’re already proud to have done it.
34:13>> Exactly. Exactly.
34:15>> They are satisfied with a return on
34:16investment linked to the pride of being
34:18able to say," I'm part of this too. "
34:20>> They don't force you to exit after 3
34:22years.
34:24So I, I always say smart money,
34:27>> okay?
34:28>> You need to find smart money because
34:30there is also heavy money; both are
34:31money, but the heavy kind ends up
34:33weighing you down.
34:34>> Yes.
34:35And the other thing is that a bigger
34:38investor, besides the fact that 300-400
34:40k is a small ticket, it's not quite
34:43venture capital, but um,
34:46>> they have a series of clauses,
34:47>> having investors, then a big investor
34:49kills you, you know, liquidation
34:51preferences and all that pain in the
34:53neck, so when the project actually works
34:55, you end up regretting it later.
34:57>> So the goal is business angels. I think
34:59so.
35:01I mean, the way I see it—correct me if
35:03I'm wrong—I see it as preparing an
35:06overall project, putting together all
35:08these elements that give the idea not of
35:11just a small place, but of an ecosystem
35:13, the home of chess, an ecosystem that
35:16becomes the Italian reference point for
35:18the world of chess for the general
35:20public, from which various initiatives
35:23arise, various business models that can
35:25be integrated,
35:28so the margin isn't just selling food or
35:31the 12 € tournament fee, but it has the
35:34step 2 possibility of scaling, having
35:36more locations once it works; then it
35:38becomes a great little project, and
35:40that’s what I’m looking for partners for
35:43, to hopefully reduce these initial
35:45costs more and more."
35:48Family and friends, "in quotes. I also
35:50think that if one were to make some sort
35:52of" Early Founders "offer where you tell
35:55chess enthusiasts," Look,
35:57>> that's an idea, "you get priority,
35:59>> you get priority, a small discount, put
36:02in your 5K, you're one of the founders
36:04of the project with, let's say, minimal
36:07equity—very reduced, but you can simply
36:10say" I participated "—and you give them
36:12one event a year where someone comes
36:15down, you get it, Magnus?
36:17And they, it's for them.
36:19>> Yeah, for sure.
36:20>> Though maybe Magnus
36:23>> could make the famous gold card everyone
36:26loves.
36:28That was actually part of the plan, the
36:30idea of creating a strong bond with the
36:32Early Founders,
36:34>> because in my opinion, you gather—I mean
36:36, there are plenty of people here
36:38interested in chess, enthusiasts who
36:40would put down a token in exchange for
36:42membership, to feel part of this
36:44initiative and see how it goes.
36:47Sometimes they drop by, you know? Your
36:49project is great.
36:50>> It’s strong,
36:51>> because it comes from a passion, and
36:52when something starts from a passion,
36:54it's always...
36:54>> And it comes from a passionate community
36:57, so the idea of having a solid
36:59community base already united by passion
37:02is, I think, the project's real strength
37:04.
37:04>> I’d be happy to help you out.
37:06>> Gladly.
37:07Anyway, I can definitely handle the
37:10communication for this project on
37:12socials.
37:14I see potential, especially once the
37:16format finds its groove—which will
37:18probably need some tweaking at first—
37:20but I've seen the growth of chess abroad
37:22.
37:23>> Looking at the models abroad, it's
37:25extraordinary.
37:27I mean, there's Chess Jet in Berlin, a
37:29place that's always packed where they do
37:31jazz and chess, and it's beautiful.
37:34I mean, there’s this Gambit Café in
37:36Madrid.
37:37If I were to ask you a tough question,
37:40out of the 100 or 700 people currently
37:43in the community, what is their average
37:47social standing? It definitely covers
37:50everything.
37:51>> It covers everything, a little bit of
37:53everything really, it’s a very
37:55heterogeneous group.
37:57In this case, the Scacchi e Colori
37:59community is, in my opinion, largely
38:01university and post-graduate. So, the
38:04feeling is...
38:05>> Yes, let's say the willingness to spend
38:07isn't extremely high,
38:08>> not extremely high, but not very low
38:09either. Okay.
38:11>> But the interesting thing about chess is
38:13, I just helped my chess coach sell an
38:15online video course that sells for 497
38:18euros, and the willingness to spend is
38:20there.
38:21Besides, on platforms like Chessable,
38:23when you buy a chess course as an
38:25enthusiast,
38:26>> right?
38:26A chess course costs 400, 497, 297—
38:29those are the figures, it's not cheap.
38:32>> That’s why I’m stuck at 900 points, I’ve
38:34never invested. I’ve never invested; you
38:37have to invest in a coach here because
38:39you can see everyone has their own
38:41confidence world.
38:43The other thing, in my opinion, to
38:45consider is that when you see a project
38:47, maybe even in the restaurant business
38:49, that works—I don't know, let's take an
38:51example, there's Costa Coffee, let's
38:52just use that as an example, say the
38:54concept is the same, you do Nero Coffee
38:56and this, something like that based on
38:58chess, it's a nightmare to replicate
38:59because you need to have the knowledge;
39:01without this knowledge, you can't do it
39:03.
39:04>> the contacts, the networks, I mean once
39:07you've started, at that point if I want
39:09to replicate it, good luck, you know?
39:11I mean, the right panzerotto is easier
39:13than
39:14>> if you occupy that space, it's unlikely
39:16someone will come
39:19>> so it either works or it doesn't, but if
39:21it does work, it's not like a competitor
39:23shows up and in a minute steals it, this
39:25is an advantage.
39:27>> This can be an advantage. Let's wait and
39:29see. Oh, maybe we do this initiative
39:31together and
39:32>> Ah, I like it.
39:33>> the team is there.
39:34>> I like it. Think about it, let me steal
39:36a minute of your time, I haven't given
39:38up on it for years. I wanted to make the
39:40perfect Padel sandwich.
39:42>> Okay.
39:43>> But they had already pro
39:45>> Yes, the team of But they had designed
39:47the tables with the Padel court.
39:50>> But I have the perfect testimonial
39:52>> because I have this guy who plays chess
39:54tournaments with me often, who lives in
39:56Madrid now, but that's because he
39:57dedicated his life to padel. Actually,
40:00he's a chess player who plays padel,
40:02he's like number 300 in the world. And
40:04>> so very talented. How old is he?
40:06>> 24.
40:07>> Ah.
40:08>> And when he comes to Milan we always
40:09play chess, not padel, because I'd look
40:11bad, but I'd be happy to introduce you.
40:13I only play with the top 10 in the world
40:16.
40:18>> Great, good luck, buddy.
40:19>> Thanks a lot,
40:20>> it was a pleasure. Eh, good luck. I
40:22remain at your disposal.

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