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Vitamin D Expert: The Supplement World Is Giving The WRONG Advice! — Transcript

by The Diary Of A CEO · 20,959 words · 3,148 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00The vitamin world is giving the wrong
0:02advice. For instance, if you do not know
0:04what you're doing with them, they're
0:06just as dangerous as any drug you could
0:07put in your mouth. The next thing is
0:09supplementing with vitamin D is not the
0:11same as being outdoors [music]
0:13because we absorb it through our skin.
0:14But what we've been told is don't ever
0:16let the sun touch your skin. And another
0:19example is when we're deficient in this
0:21vitamin, our brain actually forgets how
0:23to sleep. And I know that because I'm a
0:26neurologist and I wanted to tell the
0:28world about what my patients and I had
0:30and discovered together about making
0:32sleep better. And billions around the
0:34world have a sleep problem, but no one's
0:36treating it. And the usual sleep
0:38treatment is behavioral like blackout
0:40curtains, go to bed at the same time.
0:42But that is not something that's helped
0:44the people who wind up with me. They've
0:46tried all that already. And I've taken
0:47care of 28-year-olds who just had a
0:49stroke.
0:50>> 28, sorry,
0:51>> 28-year-olds. We associate stroke with
0:54being old and having diabetes and
0:56hypertension and heart disease. No. So
0:58then I did a whole bunch of sleep
0:59studies because we found some exciting
1:01things [music] by accident that turn out
1:03to have to do with vitamin deficiencies
1:06and deficiencies that have developed
1:07from being indoors too much. [music] And
1:09we're starting to feel the effects of
1:11that like obesity. But there there are
1:13no obese squirrels in my backyard. The
1:15only obese animals are cats and dogs
1:17[music] that we keep inside. And then we
1:19found out most of the sleep disorders
1:21are really linked to the gut the
1:22microbiome and we could go into that but
1:24one of the interesting thing I learned
1:25was vitamin D is a hormone. There was a
1:28mistake made in calling it a vitamin.
1:30>> Well, I'm very curious to learn about
1:32all of this and also you've come up with
1:33this protocol called the right sleep
1:35protocol. Can you walk me through it?
1:37>> Absolutely. Here's the first part of it.
1:39So,
1:42>> this is super interesting to me. My team
1:43given me this report to show me how many
1:45of you that watch this show subscribe.
1:46And some of you have told us according
1:48to this that you are unsubscribed from
1:50the channel randomly. So favor to ask
1:52all of you, please could you check right
1:53now if you've hit the subscribe button
1:55if you are a regular viewer of the show
1:56and you like what we do here. We're
1:58approaching quite a significant landmark
1:59on this show in terms of a subscriber
2:01number. So if there was one simple free
2:04thing that you could do to help us, my
2:05team, everyone here to keep this show
2:07free, to keep it improving year over
2:09year and week over week, it is just to
2:11hit that subscribe button and to double
2:12check if you've hit it. Only thing I'll
2:14ever ask of you, do we have a deal? If
2:16you do it, I'll tell you what I'll do.
2:17I'll make sure every single week, every
2:20single month, we fight harder and harder
2:21and harder and harder to bring you the
2:22guests and conversations that you want
2:24to hear. I've stayed true to that
2:25promise since the very beginning of the
2:26D ofio, and I will not let you down.
2:29Please help us. Really appreciate it.
2:31Let's get on with the show.
2:36Dr. Nasha Gmanac for the people that
2:39have just clicked on this conversation
2:41because they like the title, they're
2:42interested in the subject matter, what
2:44are what are they going to get from
2:46sitting with us and listening to us? How
2:48is their life going to improve?
2:49>> A completely unique and new way to look
2:52at why they are not sleeping well or why
2:56they have medical problems. I hope they
2:59will come away with the impression that
3:02I want to find out if my brain chemistry
3:04is normal or not normal for sleep.
3:07>> And you were a clinical assistant at
3:08professor of neurology at Stanford
3:10University Hospital and also you did a
3:12neurology residency at Harvard Medical
3:14School.
3:14>> Yes. I grew up in California. I became a
3:17biochemist and then I wound up being
3:19interested in medicine because
3:20biochemistry is being applied to humans
3:23in medicine. So I became a physician and
3:25then I went into neurology and I'm a
3:27neurologist and then by accident
3:30somebody insisted that they wanted a
3:33sleep study and this was in 2004 now.
3:37>> So you became you were a neurologist,
3:38you became a doctor and then you fell in
3:40love with sleep.
3:41>> Yes.
3:42>> How many patients have you worked with
3:46on the subject matter of sleep? What's
3:48the wide range of symptoms that they
3:52were experiencing and problems that they
3:53had just to get a sort of context on the
3:55variety and broadness of your
3:56experience?
3:57>> Probably 200. Since leaving neurology
4:01practice, I started a online business
4:04where I became a sleep coach. I'm
4:07estimating that I have affected another
4:095 to 6,000 people. And that's because I
4:12have a a workbook that we're going to
4:14talk about. I have set out a series of
4:16steps that you should do and that those
4:19steps are based on brain chemistry
4:22>> not on you do it wrong which is what is
4:25all over the internet. You are just
4:27doing it wrong. The usual sleep
4:29treatment is behavioral
4:32>> blackout curtains,
4:34white noise, go to bed at the same time,
4:37recognize your bedroom as a quiet place
4:40for sleep, etc.
4:42That is not something that's helped the
4:45people who wind up with me. They've
4:47tried all that. They've tried
4:48everything. So what are the range of
4:51symptoms?
4:53The first experience was with women who
4:56had headache. One of my patients said,
4:59"These drugs you're giving me haven't
5:00worked. I want a sleep study." She had
5:04sleep apnnea. She was young and thin.
5:07She did not look like a fat older male
5:10with a fat tongue, which is what we were
5:12being sold at that time. The people with
5:15sleep apnnea have a fat tongue. It gets
5:16in the air a airway and they need to
5:18wear one of these things over their face
5:22at night that blows air up their nose.
5:25She put on the CPAP device. She came
5:27back two months later. Her headaches
5:29were gone. She'd had a daily headache
5:31for like five years.
5:33>> So it worked.
5:34>> Yes. And I was like, well, no, there's
5:39no way because headaches are really a
5:42brain stem function problem. I have this
5:44whole construct in my mind and it's a
5:46biochemical problem. So, I think maybe
5:49it's allowing her to stay in deep sleep
5:52longer
5:54and she's making the chemicals that I'm
5:56focusing on that allow her head pain
5:59switch to go into the off position,
6:02which is where it's supposed to be. It's
6:03supposed to be off until somebody hits
6:05you in the head and then it turns on.
6:06Hers is just turning on spontaneously
6:08all the time. So then I did a whole
6:11bunch of sleep studies in young healthy
6:13females who had daily headache. They
6:15would frequently say something like, "I
6:17wake up at 3:00 a.m. and I can't go back
6:18to sleep. I wake up at 3:00 a.m. and my
6:22sleep is lighter after that. I wake up
6:24at 3:00 a.m. with a headache." And then
6:26I have, let's say, as an example, a
6:29little Mexican lady who comes in from
6:31northern Mexico. She's now living in
6:33Texas with her kids. She had never had
6:35headaches until she moved up and she's
6:37living with one of her grown kids and
6:38she's coming to see me for headaches. We
6:40happen to have a a beach house in Mexico
6:43for a period of about 14 years. So I
6:46would go down there and I would think,
6:47what's going to happen to these people
6:48that have sleep apnnea who don't have
6:49any electricity and they're living in
6:51palapas that are made of sticks with a
6:53thatch roof. They're still doing the
6:56same thing that they were doing 2,000
6:584,000 years ago. And you can't tell if
7:01the little vetsitos, the little old
7:04people are 60 years old or 80. They
7:06might be 90. They're not fat. They're
7:09not tired. They're great grandfathers. I
7:13begin to realize this is about living
7:15outside. Humans were meant to live
7:18outdoors like every other animal. We
7:21have decided that we are special, but
7:23we're not special. We're our
7:24biochemistry is like every other animal.
7:26Okay. So, these two these inputs are
7:28coming all at the same time. And I'm
7:30puzzling over these sleep studies. That
7:32first gal had sleep apnnea, but most of
7:35the women that I sent for those studies,
7:37they did not have sleep apnnea or come
7:39back on the front page would say no
7:41significant apnea. There was a
7:42significant score. How many times do you
7:45stop breathing during the night? And
7:46then the next part is what do they have
7:50that's wrong with them? That came about
7:52a year and a half later when the
7:53pulmonologist says, "I don't know if
7:56you've noticed this, but your population
7:58has a really unusual finding. Most of
8:01them have delayed rapid eye movement
8:03sleep, no rapid eye movement sleep, or
8:07they have rapid eye movement sleep
8:09apnea, meaning they only stop breathing
8:12in rapid eye movement sleep.
8:14>> What's rapid eye movement sleep?
8:16>> So, this is called a hypnogog.
8:18And on this bottom axis is time.
8:22On this axis is a representation of what
8:26phase of sleep you are in. And it turns
8:30out that when we enter sleep, we go
8:32through what we call two lighter stages
8:34of sleep. The first phase that we enter
8:38is here it's wake.
8:41Couple of times this person woke may not
8:45even be aware that they woke up went
8:46back to sleep. But we enter sleep in
8:48light sleep one and light sleep two.
8:50These are called that because when the
8:52sleep experts started studying this in
8:541970, that's relatively recently. You
8:58could easily awaken someone out of these
9:00phases. Okay? And it has a certain
9:02brainwave pattern generates. And then
9:05they go into a phase that's called deep
9:08sleep or slowwave sleep. Everyone who
9:12has a sleep tracker device which is very
9:15common these days is now becoming
9:17familiar with I have this much deep
9:19sleep. I have this much rapid eye
9:21movement sleep. Deep sleep is really in
9:24the sleep industry called slowwave sleep
9:27because the brain waves are these slow
9:30big pattern.
9:32We always go through a couple of light
9:36sleep phases and then we go into rapid
9:39eye movement sleep and then we go
9:41through light sleep phases and then we
9:43go to deep sleep. Now the pivotal
9:46question that I asked the pulmonologist
9:49why would my patient have stop breathing
9:53that's what apnea means. Why would they
9:55stop breathing only in REM sleep? I
9:58thought this was an anatomic problem.
10:00And he said, 'Well, we get the most
10:02paralyzed of all in REM sleep.' And I
10:05went, paralyzed?
10:08Holy crap.
10:10Do you mean I'm I'm paralyzed while I'm
10:12in bed? What if I stop breathing? What
10:15if my brain doesn't ever not like
10:18unparalyze me? That's terrifying.
10:21And it turns out every animal, including
10:24fruit flies who we're doing sleep
10:27studies on, get paralyzed in sleep. We
10:31get the most paralyzed in rapid eye
10:33movement sleep. When this part
10:36needs to get repaired,
10:38it gets paralyzed, too. That means you
10:40have to have an anatomy that stays where
10:43the tube that you're trying to breathe
10:44through stays open
10:47while you are unconscious
10:50and trying to repair everything in this
10:53area. And I want to pull out the brain
10:56to let you know where this is happening
10:58and why it's so important. This part
11:01that's white is called the brain stem.
11:04This part is actually fully in control
11:07when you are asleep. There's a little
11:09switch up here that goes boop. Stephen,
11:12you're not conscious anymore. The brain
11:15is still extremely active. In fact, the
11:18waveforms that they record from up here
11:22look the same in rapid eye movement
11:24sleep as they do in wake, suggesting
11:27that all sorts of things are happening.
11:29Like you wake up abruptly because some a
11:31noise happens and you're in the middle
11:33of a dream. You're traveling. You're
11:35flying. You've you've got huge colors
11:37going on. Your brain is extremely active
11:41during this time, but you're not aware
11:44of it. And this part right here, it is
11:47running your heart rate, your blood
11:49pressure. It is paralyzed you. This is
11:52where the autonomic nervous system comes
11:55in. The sympathetic nervous system and
11:57the parasympathetic nervous system are
12:00centered right here. They are meant to
12:03be the automatic driver of all the
12:07processes that you use during the day
12:10and they run sleep.
12:13This process
12:15that we're talking about here is fully
12:18run by the brain stem.
12:20>> So the sort of sleepwake cycles.
12:23>> Exactly. The sympathetic is called fight
12:25flight. The other one the
12:27parasympathetic is called rest and
12:30digest.
12:31It also is experienced as a state of
12:34calm. Okay. It is also what happens when
12:38we have an orgasm. There are things that
12:40are happening in the brain stem that
12:42feed back to why do they fall asleep?
12:44Why do the guys fall asleep on top of
12:46her? Probably because it actually might
12:50increase the likelihood of
12:52fertilization. Maybe it has a survival
12:54risk.
12:56These are all unconscious things that we
12:59don't we aren't trained to connect
13:01together. But once you get into the
13:02parasympathetic nervous system, it turns
13:05out that the parasympathetic and the
13:07sympathetic are also very involved in
13:09what's happening here. And the basic
13:11idea is the first half of the night, and
13:14you'll see that we've also broken it
13:15into 1 2 3 4 5 cycles usually of about
13:18an hour and a half. The first half of
13:20the night till about 3:00 a.m. is mostly
13:23run by the sympathetic side,
13:25>> which is the fight orflight side.
13:27>> Yes. So when you're well balanced and
13:29you have a completely normally operating
13:31brain stem, you will have a couple of
13:33branches of REM sleep. But my patients
13:37did not have any REM sleep at all in the
13:39first half of the night. And in fact,
13:42they might have been lucky to little
13:43have a little half an hour here between
13:454:30 and 5, if at all.
13:48The second half of the night from 3:00
13:50am to 7 am is run by the parasympathetic
13:53side. That means if you look at it in a
13:57certain way, you could say, well, wait,
13:59maybe they've lost the parasympathetic
14:01driver for the second half of their
14:04night. Seeing all these sleep studies
14:07that did not have this phase of sleep,
14:10they're actually one6 of the amount of
14:12RAM sleep they should have. And as I go
14:15back through all the sleep studies, I
14:16realize, well, wait, don't we kind of do
14:20mood in REM sleep?
14:21>> What do you mean, do we do mood?
14:23>> When trying to link the comments that my
14:27patients have made and the drugs that I
14:30give them, I realize I've been giving
14:32out anti-depressants to this group of
14:34young, healthy women with headaches
14:37because they frequently say, "I'm in a
14:39terrible mood."
14:41So, they can't remember. Isn't there a
14:44body of literature about memory being
14:46made permanent during REAM? Yes, memory
14:48is linked and mood is linked. If I'm
14:51allowed to go back to sleep, if I have
14:53the proper brain chemistry to allow me
14:56to fall back into REM sleep, I will wake
15:00in a better mood. Those are the sorts of
15:02things that the patients will tell you
15:04if you ask about it and if they're able
15:06to fall back to sleep.
15:09because my group did not have sleep
15:11apnnea and could not wear CPAP masks.
15:14What's wrong with them? Why aren't they
15:16in this phase of sleep? This is a
15:18neurology problem. This is not a
15:20pulmonologist. This is not about
15:22breathing. This is about this brain stem
15:25and what is the chemistry of this? So
15:27then I go to the anatomy and then I find
15:29out what are the cells in this brain
15:32stem area that make us paralyzed. Just
15:36to make sure I'm with you, you're you're
15:37asking that question because you figured
15:38out that the women who are struggling
15:41with sleep and getting headaches have
15:43less of this REM sleep which is
15:45associated with being paralyzed. So the
15:47question you've then asked is what are
15:49the chemicals that help us become
15:51paralyzed?
15:52>> Yes. Okay. What [clears throat] are
15:53cells that take us into these what what
15:56is the chemistry of that? Since I am so
15:58focused on biochemistry, there's
16:00actually a deficiency in a
16:01neurotransmitter that our moving doors
16:03means that we've lost a neurotransmitter
16:05that we must have to be normal humans.
16:08And the reason why they don't know it is
16:10because there are no drugs that
16:12duplicate acetylcholine. There are no
16:14drugs. But ultimately what we found out
16:17together was that vitamin D makes the
16:20enzyme or the protein that makes a
16:24certain reaction happen that makes
16:26acetylcholine. Acetylcholine is the
16:29neurotransmitter the chemical that the
16:32autonomic parasympathetic side uses. We
16:35hear all the time about epinephrine and
16:37norepinephrine or adrenaline and
16:39noradrenaline. That's what happens when
16:41somebody rear ends you. Your blood
16:42pressure goes up, your heart rate goes
16:44up. That's all dominant here. If you're
16:47wearing a sleep tracker, you'll you'll
16:49see that there's a measure of what's
16:50called heart rate variability that goes
16:53up as the parasympathetic becomes
16:55dominant
16:56>> as the the rest and digest.
16:58>> Exactly. So all of the messages that we
17:01have to increase the heart rate or
17:03decrease the heart rate or to have a
17:05bowel movement or be constipated or to
17:08digest our food, those are all
17:11eventually run by a chemical and our
17:14body and our brain use these chemicals
17:17to send messages. This is actually a
17:20chemical deficiency state that happens
17:24when you move indoors.
17:26Sunscreen, computers, and air
17:28conditioning all started in the 1980s.
17:31And the reason why it's not as evident
17:33to you as it is to me is that I was
17:36alive before the 1980s. There were two
17:39kids in my class of 300 that were
17:42overweight.
17:43They didn't go on diets. They didn't
17:46have any trouble sleeping. They weren't
17:47on anti-depressants. The things that
17:50weren't common when I was a teenager
17:53that are common now are striking for
17:57those of us who are this age because we
17:59know it wasn't like that. What we've
18:01been told is it's toxins in the food.
18:04It's that we aren't doing it right. I
18:06don't think those are things when you
18:09say I'm not doing it right, then you
18:10should be able to tell me how to do it
18:12right. And that's what a lot of these
18:14podcasts are about. How do I change what
18:16I do so I can feel rested and be at the
18:18peak performance of my life? That
18:21interests a lot of people.
18:23I would claim that there's a deficiency
18:25state in the background that you can
18:26actually fix and you can fix it, but
18:29it's through vitamins. And the our ideas
18:32about vitamins are wrong. Completely
18:36wrong. We've been taught that vitamins
18:40are not important or vitamins are very
18:43important, but they're easy to use.
18:44They'll never hurt us. Uh you just take
18:47a certain like who's your
18:49recommendation? What's the vitamin D
18:51recommendation dose that this guy's
18:52given out? We've been told things that
18:55are actually not true. And medicine
18:58hasn't taken responsibility for the fact
19:00that this is the the core of
19:02biochemistry.
19:03It was done by physicians. These
19:05original research articles in the 40s
19:09and 50s that the word vitamin was used
19:11was done by medical experts.
19:14It's unfortunately been given to the
19:17government to give recommendations. It
19:19should never be in the hands of the
19:21government. The government doesn't know
19:22anything about our biochemistry.
19:24So the supplement industry at the moment
19:26is a mess. And I say that only because I
19:30have seen dramatic things happen to my
19:32patients that
19:35are not what I expected. And vitamins
19:38are a form of biohacking. They're just
19:40as dangerous as any drug you could put
19:42in your mouth. If you do not know what
19:45you're doing with them, bad things will
19:46happen to you. And unfortunately,
19:49frequently those bad things are the same
19:51thing you had before you took the
19:53vitamin. Therefore, you should pay
19:55attention to what you're feeling. So,
19:58the pathway that I've built that's on my
20:00website now has a a second half that's a
20:02journal. You have to keep notes of
20:05what's happening to you.
20:06>> How many people
20:09are experiencing sleep problems in your
20:11point of view?
20:12>> Billions. It's around the world. There
20:14are sleep study centers in every country
20:17that has electricity. in Germany, in
20:20Japan, in Brazil, and they're all
20:23publishing how abnormal the studies are.
20:27This is not what it looks like.
20:31They rarely
20:33send out an article saying that we have
20:37less RAM because they don't have an
20:40answer for why. I just happen to be the
20:43only one currently on the internet
20:46that has a different way of looking at
20:48it. Well, I'm very curious to learn
20:50about all of this. I've never heard
20:51someone say to me before that vitamins
20:54are linked to sleep issues.
20:56>> Absolutely.
20:57>> Um, it's typically, you know, put on the
20:58sleep mask and close the blinds and make
21:00sure it's cold in the room. So, this is
21:01incredibly interesting to me.
21:03>> Let me add one more thing so I don't
21:04forget. You and Matt Walker talked about
21:07chronotypes. Yeah,
21:08>> there are many dogmatic statements that
21:10are being made about genetics and sleep
21:13that are not necessarily wrong, but
21:16they're also not necessarily right. And
21:18I had the same training that you that
21:20you get from Matt Walker. He's doing
21:22animal training. We say dogmatic things
21:26based on certain studies that we do. And
21:29then my patients
21:32don't behave that way. my patients turn
21:35out to, you know, this person has been
21:38working to take this to an extreme. So
21:40the chronotype story is you're either an
21:43early bird or a night owl and you had
21:46shared that you're a night owl and that
21:48your girlfriend is an early bird. Okay?
21:51And what is being taught is that that is
21:55your genetic makeup.
21:57Although there are genetic mutations
21:59that lead to certain timing of sleep, it
22:03turns out everybody I was doing this
22:04vitamin stuff w with would revert back
22:07to fall asleep at 10 and wake up at
22:096:00. Even the people who were working
22:11nights their whole life. This woman that
22:14I'm seeing who is on disability now
22:17because she got a terrible disease
22:21that I believe is because she worked
22:23nights when she is at home on disability
22:25for several years. that I'm still caring
22:27for her for that disease.
22:29She's still sleeping during the day.
22:32Well, why would she sleep during the
22:34day? And now I have a whole run of
22:35patients who say, "I guess it's because
22:37I always work nights." It turns out that
22:40humans really can't work nights if they
22:42have normal brain chemistry. Why?
22:45Because we're day hunters. We are
22:48supposed to be asleep in the night. And
22:49that is our biochemistry. There are lots
22:51of animals that are designed to be awake
22:53at night. Owls. That's why they use that
22:55as a symbol.
22:57And if you do the right thing with their
22:59chemistry, and if you insist that they
23:02spend more time outside,
23:05then they actually revert to falling
23:08asleep at 10 p.m. and waking up at 6:00
23:10a.m. It's very difficult to operate,
23:13unless you're international like you
23:15are, to be falling asleep. There are
23:17people who fall asleep at 4:00 a.m. and
23:19wake up at noon. That is a very
23:22difficult problem to operate within the
23:24normal population because the rest of
23:27the world doesn't operate that way. And
23:28when you think about it a little bit, we
23:30actually have certain standards on when
23:32we start work and when we end work. And
23:33that's the same all over the globe. So
23:36there were things that happened to me
23:38that surprised me and they became
23:42consistent. Okay? And those are some of
23:44the things that we're going to talk
23:45about. And that's what made me think,
23:46you know, this is around the world and
23:49it happened at a specific time. There
23:52are many diseases that started to be
23:54reported in the middle 80s. You guys
23:57aren't aware of it because you think
23:58it's normal now, but ADD, ADHD,
24:02depression, things that are affecting ch
24:05childhood development, which we could
24:07discuss at a different time, fatty
24:09liver,
24:12certain things like oh increase in
24:14diabetes, the things that were diseases
24:17that had been described, they're all
24:20some of them are old diseases that have
24:21increased in incidence, but some of them
24:23for the first time, fatty liver was
24:25first described non-alcoholic fatty
24:28liver first described in the 80s ADHD is
24:31similar. So during the time that I don't
24:34know why we have this epidemic I'm still
24:37thinking toxins because that's what
24:39we've been told pesticides glyphosate
24:43and then
24:45we get into the area of vitamin D and
24:47how did I find out about vitamin D? Why
24:50was I sort of forced against my will to
24:53step into the vitamin D politics, which
24:55is a horrible morass?
24:58>> There should be a button just down below
25:00here. And if it says subscribed, you're
25:02already subscribed. If it says
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25:06And if you're not subscribed, please
25:07could you do us a favor and hit that
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25:10know. And according to the algorithm,
25:11you're someone that watches our show,
25:13but you haven't yet hit that button.
25:14Thank you so much. So explain to me your
25:17your assertion is that vitamin D is
25:19fundamentally linked to a lot of the
25:21sleep disorders and deficiencies that we
25:22see. How how can you prove that to me?
25:25>> I think I would prefer to give you these
25:27two examples.
25:28>> Okay.
25:29>> Because the people who are listening,
25:31these are at the two extremes, but it'll
25:33cover a lot of the people that are
25:34listening.
25:34>> Okay?
25:35>> The first is let let's call her Meline.
25:38>> Maline.
25:38>> She's 32 years old. She's a redhead.
25:42That turns out to be important. She's
25:45100 pounds overweight. She just had her
25:48first pregnancy three years ago. And she
25:50had been told that because she had
25:52endometriosis and polycystic ovarian
25:54syndrome, that she would never get
25:56pregnant. But she got pregnant. She's
25:58very happy about that. She had uh
26:01gestational diabetes, which means she
26:03had diabetes during the time that she
26:04was pregnant with her son. And now she
26:08is pretty much a wreck. She has daily
26:11headache, which is why she's seeing me.
26:13She's on about nine drugs. She has
26:16several kinds of pain. She has a
26:18terrible pain down the front of her leg
26:19that she's been told is endometriosis,
26:22growing on one of her nerves. She has
26:25terrible burning in her feet. She has
26:27terrible reflux. She poops once a week.
26:31She feels like she has to get up and go
26:33to the bathroom several times a night.
26:35She thinks that's why her sleep is so
26:38interrupted. So, I'm treating her for
26:40her daily headaches and her pain. And
26:43then I start to think about sleep. And
26:45because we've been trained that fat
26:48people are fat because they're fat
26:51slobs, because they eat wrong, because
26:53they don't exercise, it's their own
26:55fault.
26:57I don't even think about the fact that
27:00many of these things might have a common
27:02source and that she's been tortured by
27:05this her whole life. So I send her for a
27:08sleep study. She gets on CPAP. Over the
27:11time she's on CPAP, she gets a little
27:13bit better. Her sleep is better. She
27:15feels better. And then I stumble into
27:18vitamin D. Okay. Now, we're going to set
27:21that as an example of the most horrible
27:24set of things you could have perhaps.
27:26And another example, and we're going to
27:29watch what happens to these two women
27:30over time. The second one we'll call
27:33Natalie. And Natalie is tall,
27:37statuesque, she's a triathlete.
27:40She is also seeing me for daily
27:41headache. She grew up in a family that
27:44is of Italian origin. She is dark tan.
27:47She swims. She's athletic. She's outside
27:51all the time in the summer. Five years
27:53ago, she had her first child. Her
27:55daughter, she did well. No problems with
27:58her sleep. Two years ago, she has her
28:00son. And since her son was born, she has
28:03not been able to go back to sleep. Even
28:05when her son goes back to sleep, she
28:06can't. She feels tired. She has
28:10postpartum depression. She had
28:12gestational diabetes. Like she's doing
28:16everything perfectly. She knows
28:18everything there is to know. She's done
28:20paleo and keto. She is very well
28:22informed by the things that doctors tell
28:24her to do. And now her sleep is also
28:27abnormal. And she had a few headaches in
28:29high school, but now she has daily
28:30headache, too. So there's a fiveyear
28:33span here where I'm doing CPAP masks and
28:36sleeping pills. And those are some of
28:38the stories.
28:41And it's not just limited to women, but
28:42I especially want to point out that
28:44women are more effective because they
28:46have the babies. So, the next thing that
28:50happens is 5 years into it, I've got
28:52this beautiful 18-year-old who's about
28:54to go to college. She comes to see me
28:55for daily headache. She has a sleep
28:58study
29:00that shows none of these phases of deep
29:03sleep.
29:03>> So, she's having no deep sleep.
29:05>> No deep sleep. And every 15 minutes or
29:10so, my interpretation is her brain is
29:12trying to get into these one of these
29:15deep sleep phases and she wakes up to
29:17light sleep again. So every time the
29:19brain tries to do this, it breaks to
29:20white sleep, light sleep, light sleep,
29:22light sleep. She thinks that she's
29:25asleep the whole night.
29:27This shows that she's asleep the whole
29:29night. But her sleep study over my five
29:32years of experience is horrifying
29:35because it's not just, oh, she's missing
29:37a little rim. She has no deep sleep at
29:39all. This is a brain stem
29:42disorder of chemistry that's going to
29:45mean she might meet me 10 years from now
29:47with a stroke. I've taken care of 28-y
29:50olds who just had a stroke.
29:52>> 28, sorry,
29:54>> 28-y olds. We associate stroke with
29:56being old and having diabetes and
29:58hypertension and heart disease. That
30:00means I'm looking at this and for the
30:02very first time I have actually started
30:04to see the diseases that my neurology
30:07patients come in with and their
30:09relationship to sleep. By the end of the
30:11five years I'm doing sleep studies on
30:13anybody who will let me. So I'm doing
30:15little kids, I'm doing moms, I'm doing
30:16dads, I'm doing every single neurologic
30:19illness that comes in. They're all
30:22abnormal. All of them. This implies that
30:25the reason why you get a disease is
30:28because your sleep is not restorative.
30:32That implies that I should think about
30:33the body as golly, I know people who
30:36live to be 75 years old and don't have a
30:39doctor. They were my grandparents and
30:42then they started to get medical
30:43problems about age 75 and then they died
30:45at 85.
30:47Why aren't we looking at it that way?
30:49Why aren't we saying, "Oh, this means
30:51your repair system that's designed to
30:53completely repair everything in your
30:55body every night." And you talked with
30:59um Tara
31:01Swat about lymphatic drainage. These
31:03things that happen while we're sleeping.
31:05It is what makes us last.
31:09Like we're not made of teflon. We're
31:10made of these biologic materials and
31:12they repair themselves every night.
31:14That's a miracle.
31:16>> If you view it through that lens,
31:19then you start to question why is
31:22medicine doing what it is. I'm trained
31:25to ask questions for the thing the
31:27person walks in for. Let's say burning
31:30in the feet.
31:31>> Okay?
31:32>> And I'm trained to make a little list of
31:34the diseases that have resulted in that
31:39and then give a drug for it. And if we
31:41don't find a drug that reverses it,
31:43which we haven't for burning, but I'm
31:45going to tell you why, then we give a
31:48drug that numbs the pain a little bit.
31:51>> We just kind of plastering it over
31:52cracks.
31:52>> We're putting band-aids on these things
31:55instead of saying, "Well, what do you
31:57think led to this?" And this
32:00glimpmphatic drainage point I think is a
32:01really important one because what when I
32:03understood this glimpmphatic drainage
32:05idea it had a profound impact on my
32:09relationship with sleep. I would argue
32:11more so than anything else. There's
32:13actually a colleague of mine who's
32:14currently sat out there right and I have
32:16an emoji that I sent to her. She's
32:19called Georgia Gibson. I have an she she
32:21likes to work very hard and I sent her
32:22this particular emoji of this this I
32:26can't even remember. She told me what
32:27the cartoon was, but it's these little
32:28fish that come out and clean the big
32:30whale.
32:30>> Yes.
32:31>> What's What's that called?
32:32>> I don't remember, but I know what you're
32:33talking about.
32:34>> Okay, I'll put it on the screen. It's
32:35from like a movie. So, everyone in the
32:36comments is probably going to know what
32:37I'm talking about. But I sent her this
32:39emoji just to remind her that she needs
32:41to sleep cuz she needs to wash her
32:42brain. That's what I say. I say to her,
32:43"You need to wash your brain," which
32:45means go to bed. When you go to sleep at
32:47night, these cleaners, you want, you
32:49know, again, I'm I'm animating this in a
32:51way that's not scientifically accurate,
32:52but these cleaners come out and clean up
32:54your brain and they wash it all and they
32:56clean it and they scrub it and they make
32:57it all back to normal again. So, if
32:59you're not sleeping, then you're going
33:01to get some kind of buildup of crap and
33:03that can lead to disease or, you know,
33:05other worse things down the line.
33:07>> Yes, that's a perfect description of it
33:10actually. And that's about the level of
33:11what we know. So, the 18-year-old with
33:15no deep sleep, she comes back and say,
33:17"Hey, this drug you gave me for my
33:18headaches made my headaches better, but
33:20I'm so tired." And I'm looking at her
33:22sleep study going, "Holy crap, no wonder
33:25she's tired." Okay, this is really,
33:27really bad. And this is invisible.
33:29Absolutely invisible to the rest of the
33:31physicians cuz she looks perfect. So, I
33:34do a B12 level and a thyroid test
33:36because I have no idea what to do. And
33:39the B12 is profoundly low. low enough
33:42that it shows up as abnormal and a
33:44little red. Okay. Now, the the weird
33:47part about this is I've never done a B12
33:49level in a headache patient since I've
33:51been doing headaches as a part of
33:52neurology, which is a large part of
33:54neurology. I then start to give B12
33:57recommendations and I do B12 blood tests
33:59on all the patients who I have in my
34:01little stable of I've done these sleep
34:03studies in them. They still are not
34:06sleeping well unless the sleeping pill
34:07works. So, for about a month, I'm doing
34:09B12 tests and then one of my patients
34:12says to me, "My doctor said my vitamin D
34:14was low." She gave me vitamin D and my
34:17wrist pain went away. And I had no clue
34:20and I thought, you know, I'm just doing
34:22blood tests anyway, which I never did in
34:24my headache patients. I'm just going to
34:25throw that in. I was completely naive.
34:29And because I was naive, I was not
34:31afraid to do this. But I did vitamin D
34:34levels and B12 levels in a group of
34:36about 500 patients between September and
34:40December of 2009.
34:44And I gave you the background because I
34:45had all these thoughts buzzing around in
34:47my head. What are we looking for? We're
34:49looking for something that it controls
34:51the brain stem. Now, they're going from
34:53August or September to December. That's
34:55in the fall. So, if you're going to make
34:57D in the summer, which is when we're
34:58supposed to make it because we're out in
35:00the sun, that's all I knew about D is
35:02you make it from the sun. It's about
35:03bones.
35:05They were all low. All of them are low.
35:08Two of these guys that are on CPAP come
35:10back. They both have headaches. They
35:12both say the same thing to me in the
35:13same week. You know, I've been wearing
35:15the CPAP mask for a whole year. My
35:18headaches hadn't gone away. But that
35:20little note you sent me last time I was
35:22in here when you did my vitamin D level
35:23and you told me to get vitamin D. I took
35:25that for about a month. My sleep got
35:28better and my headaches went away. Now I
35:30happen to know that all the D's were
35:32low. But D's about bone. Why would it
35:35have anything to do with sleep? So I go
35:37to the PubMed. That's my resource now. I
35:40hang out with PubMed all the time,
35:42>> which is
35:43>> that's where you register all your
35:44articles that we publish. 2009. I put in
35:47two search terms, vitamin D and sleep,
35:50and there are no hits.
35:52And then I put in vitamin D in the brain
35:54and I wind up going to articles by a guy
35:58named Walter Stumpf Stu MF who's been
36:01writing about vitamin D for 30 years who
36:04has actually published that there are
36:08vitamin D receptors in this little
36:10stripe along the back of the brain stem
36:12that paralyzes us. Like he knows the
36:15name of this nucleus. He has shown
36:17articles where the vitamin D receptors
36:19are in this nucleus that paralyzes us
36:22and in the nuclei that are the clock
36:24nuclei that determine what time it is,
36:28what time we go to sleep, when we make
36:30these transitions. The brain always
36:32knows exactly what time it is. Those
36:36areas have vitamin D receptors.
36:39That means vitamin D is doing something.
36:42That means I'm very interested in
36:44thinking if this vitamin D
36:48is low, like if they say 30 to 100 is
36:51normal, and my patients with sleep
36:53disorders and neurologic problems have
36:55vitamin D levels in the low30s and
36:57below, is there a vitamin D level, not a
37:01dose, but a brain or a blood level that
37:06I can measure that might make them sleep
37:08better? That would be phenomenal. Should
37:10we go down this vitamin D road? I know
37:12nothing about it. I start sending people
37:13for vitamin D levels and giving them
37:15vitamin D and I start reading.
37:18Walter Stump has already put together a
37:20beautiful belief system around vitamin D
37:23is the hibernation hormone. It allows
37:25animals to adapt their body to tolerate
37:29winter when there's no food. It tells
37:32their body to do things like the thyroid
37:34hormone lowers the metabolic rate of all
37:37the cells in the body. The weird part is
37:40this is written about beautifully by
37:42Walter Stump. And because he has a whole
37:46belief system that tells what you should
37:48expect, he's also published many
37:51articles. The first articles in 1982
37:55about brain stem. He publishes articles
37:58about postpartum depression, about
38:00infertility, about obesity. He's telling
38:04us what epidemics are going to happen,
38:07but it's before it happens because the
38:09sunscreen's coming out in 85
38:12and the middle of the air conditioning
38:14computer. And when I'm talking about
38:16this during CO, it becomes much more
38:19exaggerated. Okay, CO has brought us all
38:22indoors and we're starting to feel the
38:24effects of that even more exaggerated.
38:26So, Walter has this idea set. I call him
38:29up. Luckily, he's retired and he takes
38:32my phone call and I say, "Hey, you don't
38:35know me, but I'm this clinician in Texas
38:38and I have this clinical observation
38:40that I've done all these sleep studies
38:41on people. Their brain
38:44that should be sending them through
38:46these particular steps is not. You have
38:49shown that there are vitamin D receptors
38:50all over the nuclei that should be
38:52running this.
38:54Has anybody written about sleep and
38:56vitamin D?" And he says, "No, but it
38:58makes perfect sense. It's the
38:59hibernation hormone. What else would you
39:01do? You sleep longer.
39:03And it turns out that when our D goes
39:05very low, our brain actually forgets how
39:07to sleep. That's the easiest way to
39:10describe it. That gal that I showed you,
39:12she had not only vitamin D deficiency as
39:14the primary deficiency and with
39:16secondary deficiency we're going to talk
39:18about, but there your brain just becomes
39:21completely scattered and it's what it's
39:22supposed to do because the the D is
39:25doing a specific thing. It took me a
39:28while to figure out. There are articles
39:30that actually took Walter's articles and
39:32said, "Hey, there are these D
39:33receptors." What hormones do that's
39:36unique is the hormone goes inside the
39:38nucleus
39:40of the cell and the nucleus has the DNA
39:43and it binds to the DNA and it has a
39:46special vitamin D receptor. That's what
39:48Walter was measuring. When it hits that
39:50receptor, there's a specific protein
39:52that that DNA expresses. That means that
39:55little piece of DNA comes out. It makes
39:57this protein. The protein that it makes
40:00is an enzyme that makes acetylcholine.
40:04So that means I can trace through the
40:05scientific literature all the way from
40:07the receptor to the articles that use
40:10that that showed that it was an an
40:12enzyme called choline acetal
40:14transferase. Now the next part is really
40:17important because what I want out of
40:20this is that Meline and Natalie both get
40:23better. Okay, this this biochemistry is
40:26my thrill. But what the listener wants
40:29is how do I get better? Now, since I
40:34started this and the first time I
40:35started giving vitamin D was in 2010,
40:39this is now
40:4116 years later.
40:44Is vitamin D any better understood or
40:47given out? No. The science is
40:51phenomenal. The recommendations for the
40:54doctors
40:55don't go there. The endocrine society
40:58are supposed to be the experts in
40:59hormones. D is a hormone.
41:02>> I think that's an important point which
41:03is a lot of people think of vitamin D as
41:05some kind of well we think of it as a
41:06vitamin but you're telling me it's it's
41:08a hormone.
41:09>> It's the most bizarre thing I've ever
41:11run into in medicine. It's really
41:12bizarre.
41:13>> Which which path?
41:14>> There was a mistake.
41:17There was a mistake made in calling it a
41:19vitamin. It is made on our skin.
41:24Now, it turns out animals frequently
41:25lick their fur,
41:28and they get their vitamin D that's made
41:30in their fur from licking their fur.
41:33Some of it's absorbed, but the thing
41:35that's unique about us and pigs,
41:37domesticated pigs, is we're bald.
41:41That means most of the time we're making
41:43it on our skin. It's never supposed to
41:45be from the food. It was not ever about
41:49the food for us.
41:52We don't lick our skin.
41:55Therefore, we absorb it through our skin
41:57and we can actually have salmon. The
42:00salmon has vitamin D in it. That's the
42:02salmon's vitamin D. It's not our vitamin
42:04D. It's like saying you eat salmon, you
42:06get salmon estrogen. That should be
42:08enough estrogen for you to have a normal
42:10period. That's crazy. If your ovaries
42:13are not making enough estrogen, you
42:15won't have a normal period. Okay? They
42:17called it a vitamin. And in the n early
42:1980s medicine decided vitamins were for
42:22lesser humans. Therefore D got pushed
42:25into that pile and it got given over the
42:29counter. Now, the fascinating part about
42:30that is it turns out to be a good thing
42:32that it's over the counter because the
42:34lay public once they hear that their
42:38whole health is actually tied to this
42:42and that they've been doing what their
42:44doctor recommended, which is to use
42:45sunscreen and stay out of the sun. And
42:48the original recommendation, cuz I was
42:51there in the early 80s, was don't
42:54sunburn.
42:56Every sunburn that's a bad sunburn that
42:58you peel from will age your skin even if
43:01you're 10.
43:02>> Which is is that true or not?
43:03>> That's true.
43:04>> It's true. Yeah,
43:04>> that piece is true. Now, the weird thing
43:06is that has been morphed over the last
43:0940 years into don't ever let the sun
43:13touch your skin. People are smart. If
43:15you tell them that they can use
43:17sunscreen wisely and it blocks the
43:20ability to make vitamin D and it has
43:23turned into the combination of sunscreen
43:26plus being inside much more than we ever
43:29were before. When you had air
43:30conditioning, people slept out on the
43:32roof in Saudi Arabia. That means you
43:35spend much more time outdoors. And it
43:38also turns out there's a particular move
43:41in health and wellness which is about
43:44the many forms of wavelengths of energy
43:47that we absorb that are given to us by
43:50the sun that are not UVB. UVB is the
43:53wavelength that makes D. There are your
43:57podcast about infrared. Very very
44:00important. That means there are many
44:02wavelengths of energy and the more time
44:04we spend outdoors, the more our body
44:08actually uses those wavelengths in our
44:11biology because medicine is so
44:14conservative and so slow to change. They
44:17basically poo poo any new ideas. So
44:21hyperbaric oxygen laughed at uh infrared
44:24laughed at made made fun of and
44:27therefore you could actually have your
44:29license taken away since co
44:32since doctors are now doing things
44:34across video. I am safer in my little
44:39place making my comments making my
44:41statements. They're madeup stories.
44:44>> What is a madeup story? My telling you
44:46my belief system
44:49is a madeup story. This is really an
44:52important idea. I thought that
44:55everything written in a book is true. As
44:58soon as the publications come out, soon
45:00as I can go to PubMed,
45:02I thought those things written down were
45:04true
45:06absolutes. And then you stay in medicine
45:08for 30 years and you realize the things
45:10that you were taught are not truth
45:13anymore. Well,
45:15that means they made up those stories.
45:18They do a scientific experiment. You and
45:21I are looking at the data, but there's
45:24always a conclusory.
45:26My conclusions from this data are those
45:30are always made up stories. And in fact,
45:33they're always humans making up stories.
45:36You and I are not listening to stories
45:39that ants make up or that cats make up.
45:44We're very human centric.
45:47We're studying things that are stories
45:50that humans make up.
45:51>> And we're arriving at a conclusion based
45:53on some factors that we can see which is
45:56you know often causation or correlation
45:58sorry and not necessarily causation.
46:01>> Correlation very important. We all have
46:04a belief system. You and I are building
46:07a belief system here. I told you that
46:09Walter Stump had a belief system. The
46:11reason why I'm using those terms is
46:14I was really pissed off at the
46:16pulmonologist when I realized
46:20that woman with the sleep apnea, she
46:21wasn't a fat middle-aged male with a fat
46:24tongue. How dare they? Here are these
46:27women. They have headaches. They're
46:28suffering. How dare they make up this
46:31story? And then I began to realize
46:35they made up those stories. That was
46:37their best guess.
46:39>> That is every single person who sits on
46:41this side of the table. It's their best
46:43guest.
46:45All of us are or you wouldn't have us on
46:46here. Very enthusiastic about our
46:48guests. But it's very important to
46:51realize that every belief system means
46:53you see the world through that. But it
46:56always has blinders.
46:57>> There are things that you won't be able
46:59to see because of it as well.
47:02Then you must move into a point of view
47:05which is I need to stay flexible. What
47:08if new information comes? Yeah.
47:10>> Okay. So
47:12>> the debelief system at the moment is
47:15that it's a vitamin
47:17>> and there's a huge political fight
47:20within the medical literature. It's very
47:22weird.
47:22>> The debelief system. What do you mean?
47:24Medicine has decided that the only way
47:27you can get any important information is
47:29to have a control group, a study group.
47:34The study group gets X, a drug, in this
47:37case, vitamin D. And you compare the
47:40outcome of both groups.
47:41>> And what does the other group get? A
47:42placebo. Basically, they think it's a
47:44drug, but there's nothing in it.
47:44>> Yeah. And then you compare the outcome.
47:48The problem is in no biologic pathway is
47:51there only one variable. There's never
47:53one variable.
47:55And that means when you give one a
47:58hormone,
48:00you also need to know that hormones are
48:04always in done by blood levels and that
48:08the normal state for the human body in
48:11every biologic
48:13animal including plants is that hormones
48:17stay in a tight little narrow band. Too
48:19much and too little are both not good.
48:21always goes towards the middle. In the
48:24lei experience, this is why we do blood
48:27levels of testosterone. If we give you
48:29testosterone supplement, if we give you
48:31estrogen in thyroid, even lay people
48:34know my aunt would get crazy when her
48:38thyroid was off and it could be too high
48:40or too low. D is exactly the same. Yet,
48:45they do these studies based on a fixed
48:47dose. So it doesn't matter what the
48:50level is,
48:52what time of the year, how much sun
48:53they're getting, they're all getting
48:554,000 IUs.
48:56>> So they could be having too much or too
48:58little.
48:59>> No blood levels are taken.
49:00>> So you're saying that it should be
49:01personalized the amount of vitamin D.
49:03>> Absolutely. Any hormone that you take,
49:05if you compare, that's why the endocrine
49:07society is so important. They know in
49:112004 when they gave the final
49:12recommendation for the doctors and
49:14practice, they know that the studies
49:17that have been done so far are rarely
49:20done in the way a hormone should be
49:22studied. And they say that in their
49:24report. They spent a whole year looking
49:26at this chemical, all the research
49:27that's done. And they say, you know, we
49:30don't really have any good studies. We
49:33don't have any clinical studies like
49:35mine for instance where we're relating
49:37the dose that we give the person to the
49:39blood level that's achieved. Therefore,
49:44you would think they would say we need
49:45more studies. No, here's what they said.
49:47Therefore, you should not do vitamin D
49:49levels and you should not give
49:50recommendations about vitamin D, taking
49:52it or not taking it. you should just
49:54avoid the whole conversation because
49:57what's going to happen when you do a
49:58vitamin D level is you're going to call
49:59me up and you're going to say what dose
50:02should I give the D level is this and we
50:04don't know so they've said don't be
50:06curious don't do it that's insane now
50:11that means the lay public is coming to
50:13me and other people on the internet and
50:16they're coming to podcasts like this to
50:18learn about it and there are a lot of
50:20conflicting
50:22attitudes foods. I may be one of the
50:25biggest recorder in my brain, which is
50:28not in a data dump that I can put into
50:30an article of how to manage vitamin D
50:34levels, what you should do, what you
50:36should do with dosing. And that's one of
50:37the things I have in this workbook that
50:39we're going to talk about. Whenever I
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52:40I'm very curious about Meline and
52:41Natalie still.
52:43>> Great.
52:43>> What happened to Meline and Natalie?
52:45>> Okay. For two years, I'm talking to
52:47Walter on the phone and I start giving
52:49vitamin D to my my patients and I
52:52learned that every single person needs a
52:54unique amount. Very scary. That means
52:57everybody else is saying, "Oh, take
52:585,000, take 10,000, take 20,000. I take
53:01a h 100,000 once a month. Okay? And I
53:04find out also that if you get past about
53:08a level of 60, that's when they come
53:11back and say, you know what, my sleep is
53:13better. Now, importantly, I still was
53:16operating under the false belief that
53:18there's only one variable. Okay? I came
53:21up in medicine using drugs. That means
53:23you match the drug to the complaint. Oh,
53:26that one didn't work. And then we do
53:27this one, and then we do this one. Okay?
53:29I'm ashamed that I looked at it that
53:31way, but that was my training. So, I
53:34thought vitamin D was going to fix
53:35everything. Within the next 6 months, my
53:37patients start to come back and say
53:39horrible things like my joints ache all
53:42over and my doctor's about to send me to
53:45the rheatologist who does autoimmune
53:48diseases,
53:48>> like arthritis.
53:49>> Exactly. Then the next person comes in
53:51and says, "I've got this terrible
53:53burning in my hands and feet." And
53:56another woman comes in the same month
53:59with burning in her hands and feet. Two
54:01women, same month. They have nothing in
54:04common except they both have headaches
54:06and they've been doing vitamin D with me
54:08for two years. And they say, they want
54:10to know, is this related to that vitamin
54:12D that I've been taking with you? And
54:14now I'm very freaked out because I'm
54:17afraid that what I've been doing even
54:19though their sleep is better and we're
54:20all happy about that headaches were
54:22better now they're a little worse again
54:25is I've put them in a situation where
54:27they are now using more of whatever
54:30these building blocks are and I've I've
54:32actually forced them into another
54:34deficiency state. I'm making them make
54:36more repairs and now they're deficient
54:38in something else and I don't know what.
54:41Now, a patient walks in with a book.
54:44This is why I'm telling you that my
54:45patients are the ones that taught me all
54:47this stuff. And I'm telling you these
54:49embarrassing stories because they come
54:51in and they say, "Did you do this to
54:53me?"
54:55That's very uncomfortable. And I don't
54:58know, but I feel a commitment that I
54:59better find out. And a woman walks in
55:02with a book that's called the pain-free
55:06promise of pantaththenic acid. God
55:08forbid it's another vitamin. So I happen
55:12to have developed over the same time
55:14period this weird buttock pain. I can't
55:17sit down to talk to my patients at the
55:20end of the day because my butt hurts. So
55:23I feel like I have the same thing. So I
55:25read this book. It says pantaththenic
55:28acid is a chemical that makes this thing
55:32called co-enzyme A. Co-enzyme A is
55:35responsible for making cortisol.
55:37And I think I don't think that's causing
55:40this burning, but this is something I
55:42need to know about. And cortisol is big
55:45in sleep. We talk about cortisol all the
55:47time, the timing of it, and it's huge in
55:50inflammation. I go to the vitamin store,
55:52I find panthenic acid. The book says 400
55:55milligrams is the right dose. So, I pick
55:57up the 400 milligrams and I go to the B
56:00complex. I find something called B 100,
56:03which means there's each one has got 100
56:06milligrams or 100 micrograms. I go home
56:08with these two things. I start taking
56:11them
56:13and I give recommendations to the anyone
56:16who comes in in that one week where I
56:18have a sleep study, they have a new
56:21complaint, I give a recommendation of
56:23B100 and B5. What the book did was it
56:27sent me to the references. The articles
56:29that she references are from the 1950s
56:32in this creepy lab next to the Iowa
56:36State prison where they're doing these
56:39creepy experiments on prisoners before
56:41it becomes illegal. They published this
56:43article saying if you block panaththenic
56:45acid for two weeks, you see four things.
56:49They can't sleep.
56:51They have belly complaints, bloating,
56:53and all sorts of things. They have a
56:55funny puppet like gate and they have
56:56burning in their hands and feet and I
56:58go, "This is wonderful." So that was one
57:02of the motivations. So the cortisol link
57:04to pain and the burning in the hands and
57:08feet. Now I've got it in my head that
57:11I've made them use more of the B
57:14vitamins.
57:15>> So let's just pause that. So you're
57:16saying that by asking your patients to
57:19take more vitamin D, you're saying that
57:21the body has also started to use more B
57:24vitamins, which means that by taking
57:26more vitamin D, they're now deficient in
57:28B vitamins.
57:29>> Yes.
57:29>> And so when you use vitamin D, you also
57:32use more B vitamins.
57:34>> There's another point that I'm about to
57:36make, but you summarize it perfectly. M.
57:39>> So [clears throat] the next question
57:40would be, okay, I'm taking 400
57:42milligrams cuz that's what it says in
57:43the book and that's the only dose that
57:45was on the shelf in the vitamin store.
57:48>> I get to the end of the week and I
57:49realize I have restless legs and my
57:52restless legs has been much worse this
57:54week. This is probably too big a dose
57:57and I stop the 400 milligrams and
57:59everything goes away. My butt pain goes
58:00away like in a day.
58:02>> 400 milligrams of
58:03>> B5.
58:05So panaththenic acid is called B5. All
58:09the patients who come back say
58:13were you trying to kill me? This 400
58:16milligrams here I got so agitated
58:19I stopped it after two days. I felt like
58:22I was crawling out of my skin and I
58:24couldn't sleep at all. If you block B5
58:26you get insomnia. That means it has
58:28power in sleep. D has power in sleep.
58:32But it turns out if it has power in
58:34sleep, your body has a very specific
58:36amount that it wants. If you give it too
58:39much, it's not happy. If you give it too
58:42little, it's not happy. And it turns out
58:44that instead of giving you one thing
58:47when it's low and another thing when
58:49it's high, which is what I would have
58:50anticipated, it goes back to the same
58:53thing. When it's not happy, it just
58:54stops sleeping. Now, a couple of them
58:56come back and say, you know, I stopped
58:58the 400 milligrams because I was so
59:00agitated, couldn't sleep at all, but I
59:01stayed on B100. I feel great. My sleep
59:04is perfect. My pain is gone. And I said,
59:07that's what happened to me. It's just
59:10like too weird. This chemical is doing
59:13something and it's acting. What I would
59:14say to my patients is be very careful
59:16with this because I don't really know
59:18what dose you'll need.
59:20If it's too much, it'll act like
59:21caffeine. It'll keep you up at night.
59:23Okay.
59:24Then the next thing that happens is a
59:26gal comes in and says, "You know, you
59:28gave me that B 100
59:31and I I achd all over. I would get up in
59:34the morning and I go
59:36and she said, you know, I broke it in
59:38half and I'm taking that and I feel
59:40great." What you'll see here is B50,
59:42which is 50 milligrams of each, but all
59:44eight B's has 50 milligs of of B5 in it.
59:49It turns out if you've been taking D for
59:51two years, you've actually worked your
59:54way into a place where your body has
59:56been using more bees and you are now
59:58very profoundly deficient. But she did
1:00:00not take two years. She was a new
1:00:02patient to me. She had not been on D for
1:00:05that period of time. The reason why this
1:00:07discussion is important is there are
1:00:09millions of people who started taking D
1:00:11and CO who by the fourth year after
1:00:14taking it started to have burning in
1:00:17their hands and feet. They're not even
1:00:19taking it anymore. They took it from
1:00:212020 to 2023. Their levels got into the
1:00:2460s. Their doctor said, "Hey, 60 is
1:00:26enough. Stop taking the vitamin D." But
1:00:29they still show up with the B vitamin
1:00:31diagnosis. And they go to their doctor
1:00:32and they say, "Oh, well, you've
1:00:33developed lupus. Oh, or you have this.
1:00:35Oh, or you have that." These are all
1:00:38diseases that have been described
1:00:39already, but they haven't been described
1:00:41as B vitamin deficiency states, which is
1:00:44bizarre, but that's the historical
1:00:46point. All of the literature says B5
1:00:49deficiency doesn't exist because it's in
1:00:51every food. Now, I'm reading that
1:00:54literature and it says thamine, which is
1:00:57B1, has a poop bacteria source and a
1:01:00food source.
1:01:02B2 poop bacteria and a food source. All
1:01:06of them come from the poop.
1:01:08>> What do you mean come from the poop?
1:01:10These eight chemicals called B, all of
1:01:13them are made by bacteria
1:01:16and we absorb them. Everybody knows that
1:01:19we have the wrong microbiome. And we've
1:01:21all been told that it's toxins.
1:01:23Antibiotics are the major thing that are
1:01:25blamed. But we now have a huge body of
1:01:28literature about the microbiome being
1:01:30abnormal.
1:01:31>> The gut microbiome.
1:01:32>> Yes. The other weird part about it is
1:01:35there are these guys in Oklahoma, GI
1:01:37surgeons, who are giving poop
1:01:39transplants.
1:01:40>> Give me context on what that is.
1:01:41>> They take poop from one person and they
1:01:43push it up the other person's butt. Like
1:01:46we've spent a hundred years saying stay
1:01:48away from the poop. It's bad for you.
1:01:50Don't go from the poop to your mouth.
1:01:51Okay? We've made this idea that the
1:01:54bacteria,
1:01:56we're fighting against them. They're
1:01:58trying to take us over and they're bad
1:01:59and we're fighting against them. But as
1:02:02people are dying of things like
1:02:05claustrdium difficil, which ciff is the
1:02:08way it's shortened, they're dying of
1:02:10cadiff infection and they're doing poop
1:02:12transplants and they live. It turns out
1:02:15that the 8 B vitamins were first
1:02:17described as bacterial growth factors.
1:02:20They are chemicals that one bacteria is
1:02:23able to make and it pushes it out of its
1:02:26cell into the environment. And this one
1:02:29next to it, that's a different one goes
1:02:31>> [gasps]
1:02:31>> Goodie, give me that. And those guys
1:02:35live together as a group, a commensal,
1:02:38meaning each one of them derive benefit
1:02:41from having the other one there. So
1:02:44there are four big groups of bacteria
1:02:47that is the normal human microbiome.
1:02:50Well, why are there four? Why is it
1:02:52always this four? And how come we only
1:02:56know
1:02:57about 2% of them? for saying all these
1:03:00things that the microbiome is wrong.
1:03:02Turns out we only know 2%
1:03:04of 200 bacteria that are normal
1:03:08occupants from the mouth, from the lips
1:03:10all the way to the anus. We only know
1:03:122%.
1:03:15But we have the genetic footprint of
1:03:18every single one. We are able to take
1:03:20them out of the poop or out of the small
1:03:22intestine or out of the mouth and we can
1:03:25say these are the genetics and we've
1:03:26named all of them. So we know there are
1:03:28200. Okay.
1:03:29>> And the article that they write is, you
1:03:31know, it looks to us like the reason why
1:03:34this forsome of groups hang out together
1:03:36is because they all at least need one B
1:03:38vitamin and they produce at least one.
1:03:41So they all have a relationship to the B
1:03:44vitamins. And we should start thinking
1:03:47about the microbiome as the production
1:03:50system that supplies the B vitamins to
1:03:53the body. I didn't find that article
1:03:55until after. But here I am back again
1:03:58with one big question. These two women
1:04:00with the burning in their hands and
1:04:02feet, why did they get B vitamin
1:04:04deficient? If the bees come from the
1:04:05food, they've had the same diet all
1:04:07along. And I I haven't controlled their
1:04:10diet. I haven't made them change their
1:04:11diet. Why did all of these people come
1:04:14back with these complaints?
1:04:16The one thing we know is many of them
1:04:19have IBS symptoms, which are a signal
1:04:21that the bacteria isn't right. IBS.
1:04:23What's that?
1:04:24>> Irritable bowel syndrome.
1:04:25>> Yeah.
1:04:26>> Diarrhea, constipation, bloating. My
1:04:28belly isn't right.
1:04:29>> Yeah.
1:04:29>> Because I had assumed that D was going
1:04:32to fix everything.
1:04:33>> Vitamin D.
1:04:34>> Mhm.
1:04:34>> The [clears throat] vitamin D was going
1:04:35to fix their belly and it didn't. There
1:04:38were several things that did not get
1:04:40better. One, their IBS didn't get
1:04:42better. Two, they didn't lose weight.
1:04:44That was really weird because they were
1:04:46out exercising more. They were out
1:04:48exercising in the middle of the day, but
1:04:50they didn't lose weight. That means
1:04:51there's still something wrong in the
1:04:53background where they didn't lose
1:04:54weight. So, I'm stuck with, okay, why
1:04:57didn't the D fix the B thing? Oh. Oh,
1:05:03these were all described as bacterial
1:05:05growth factors. I have assumed that
1:05:07vitamin D was a bacterial growth factor
1:05:11because Walter W talked about the GI
1:05:13tract having all sorts of receptors for
1:05:15vitamin D. And so I assumed that the
1:05:17bacteria that lived inside us needed
1:05:19vitamin D to be normal. And therefore I
1:05:22assumed that IBS showed up in the 1980s
1:05:25[clears throat]
1:05:26because we went into D deficiency and
1:05:28that D deficiency caused this IBS. There
1:05:31were no articles about that in humans
1:05:34until 2020 when COVID came and they
1:05:37actually started to realize that the
1:05:38people who were D deficient died in
1:05:42COVID and they started to actually look
1:05:44at oh is the microbiome playing a role
1:05:47in our immune system? Yes. If I give
1:05:50vitamin D, will the bacterial makeup of
1:05:53my stool change in a positive way?
1:05:57>> Exactly. Does the poop bacteria makeup
1:06:00change in a positive way? We know we've
1:06:02seen people who don't have inflammatory
1:06:04disorders and they have these this
1:06:05bacterial makeup. Will giving vitamin D
1:06:08change the population? And yes, that's
1:06:11the answer. Now I realized now I'm
1:06:14giving two bacterial growth factors D
1:06:17and now I'm giving B 100 and I'm giving
1:06:20a large dose of all eight B's. Remember
1:06:23that give all eight. Mhm.
1:06:25>> That means by accident I have actually
1:06:28given eight bacterial growth factors
1:06:30that are necessary for bringing the poop
1:06:33bacteria back to the normal human makeup
1:06:36that it's supposed to be that it has
1:06:38always come to be spontaneously.
1:06:41That's a really important point. All the
1:06:43other animals in the world, they're not
1:06:45obese. There are no obese squirrels in
1:06:47my backyard. The only obese animals are
1:06:50are cats and dogs that we keep inside.
1:06:52So to summarize for me, what is the link
1:06:54between vitamin D and the B vitamins?
1:06:57>> It turns out that all the bees come from
1:06:59the microbiome.
1:07:00>> Yes. Okay, I understood that.
1:07:02>> In order to have the correct microbiome,
1:07:04we are actually commensal organisms with
1:07:08our microbiome. That means we have to
1:07:10provide D. They in turn provide us with
1:07:14bees.
1:07:15>> Okay. So isn't that a good thing that
1:07:16you gave them D then because then their
1:07:18body makes B.
1:07:19>> Yes. But it didn't make be on its own.
1:07:22Otherwise, those side effects like my
1:07:25butt pain wouldn't have been there.
1:07:26Okay. So, let's bring that let's bring
1:07:28that into focus. The D by itself did not
1:07:32correct the microbiome.
1:07:34>> Yeah.
1:07:34>> So, when I took 5,000 of D between 2020
1:07:39and 2023,
1:07:40and I took it for three years because my
1:07:42doctor told me it was okay. But in 2025,
1:07:46I started to have rheumatoid arthritis
1:07:49symptoms. The D did not correct my
1:07:52microbiome. It actually made me
1:07:54deficient. I'm going to give you the
1:07:56drug for rheumatoid arthritis. I'm not
1:07:58going to picture it as, oh, you need
1:08:00B50.
1:08:01>> So, you gave B50, but then didn't they
1:08:02have another problem?
1:08:04>> Most of the time, what happens after the
1:08:06B50 is everything comes back to normal.
1:08:08The GI tract corrects. You have to take
1:08:11it only for 3 months. I was taking it
1:08:13for four and a half months and I started
1:08:16to wake up and feel old.
1:08:18>> Yeah.
1:08:18>> And everything I just parenthetically
1:08:20told you about the the GI tract was
1:08:22percolating around in my brain. And what
1:08:25I had told my patients was, you know, I
1:08:27think we've stumbled on the growth
1:08:29factor that the right microbiome needs.
1:08:32And I think the reason you became B
1:08:34vitamin deficient was because it was the
1:08:36wrong microbiome. But when we give them
1:08:39what they need, they're going to grow
1:08:40back.
1:08:41>> Okay. Fine. They're going to grow back
1:08:42and they're going to do their job.
1:08:45>> Okay, so
1:08:46>> they're going to produce B50. They're
1:08:48going to make that.
1:08:49>> Let me summarize that. So, by giving
1:08:50them B50 for a short period of time,
1:08:53[snorts] you're kind of jumpstarting the
1:08:54gut microbiome and then you don't want
1:08:56to keep giving it to them or else
1:08:58they're going to become like dependent
1:08:59or not do their job properly. So, you
1:09:00want to give it to them for 3 months.
1:09:02Let them jump start and then they'll do
1:09:04their job and then you leave them alone.
1:09:05>> Yes. And I want to add one more thing.
1:09:07The way you think about it is probiotics
1:09:11are bacteria.
1:09:13You dump the bacteria down and you
1:09:15swallow it. It goes into your small
1:09:16intestine. But if it does not have the
1:09:20growth factors that it needs, which
1:09:23every bacteria has its little set of
1:09:25growth helpers, it needs to be able to
1:09:27absorb from the actual juice that's down
1:09:31there. If it doesn't have that, it can't
1:09:33reproduce.
1:09:35Every bacteria that's sitting in my
1:09:37small intestine right now
1:09:4012 hours from now is going to be in a
1:09:42different place.
1:09:43>> A [clears throat] day from now I'm going
1:09:44to poop it out. Who's up here now? The
1:09:47great great granddaughters of the
1:09:50bacteria that are sitting there while
1:09:51you're I are talking. They reproduce
1:09:54rapidly. You have to picture them like a
1:09:57river. Like we're sitting in, we're
1:09:59looking at the river and the water looks
1:10:01like this and 10 minutes later the water
1:10:04looks the same but that's not the same
1:10:07water that we were looking at 10 minutes
1:10:09ago. That water is downstream. [snorts]
1:10:12That means the level of reproduction
1:10:15that they are expected to do requires
1:10:18constant production of these growth
1:10:21factors. Now it turns out that you don't
1:10:24have to think about that. All you have
1:10:25to do is have the normal bacteria that
1:10:28was generated spontaneously when you
1:10:31were born because mom was giving you D
1:10:33in her breast milk and it also had eight
1:10:36B's. Those eight B's came from her
1:10:38normal microbiome in the breast milk.
1:10:40That means you had everything you needed
1:10:42and then you were out in the sun. You
1:10:44were born in June or July in the summer
1:10:48and then you got D on your skin and that
1:10:51process has replicated for 300,000 years
1:10:55for 250 million years. The dinosaurs had
1:11:00a microbiome in their intestines. This
1:11:02is so old it's unimaginable.
1:11:05>> So what is the conclusion here then?
1:11:06Because I do want to bring this back to
1:11:08uh Natalie and Meline.
1:11:09>> Okay.
1:11:09>> I still haven't figured out what what
1:11:10you what you told them to do. Stephen,
1:11:12you are so smart and it's so such a
1:11:15pleasure to talk to you. These are
1:11:17difficult points. Meline is struggling
1:11:20with all these things. She's slowly
1:11:21getting better. Then we do the D. She's
1:11:24slowly getting better. Then we do the B
1:11:26100. And then
1:11:30it's freaking awesome. She starts to
1:11:33lose the pain that she had down her leg.
1:11:36The burning in her hands and feet goes
1:11:37away. Her sleep gets much better. Now
1:11:39she's into year three and four
1:11:43of what becomes the right sleep program
1:11:45and she's still on 30,000 IUs of D a
1:11:49day. That's an immense dose. Most people
1:11:51are taking 5 to 10. She's been taking
1:11:5430,000 a day for four years.
1:11:57Her D level has stayed the same. It's in
1:12:00the 60s. She's doing a great job of
1:12:01keeping everything the same.
1:12:03That really means that her body is using
1:12:0530,000 IUs of vitamin D a day for four
1:12:08years. That's a very important concept
1:12:10because it means she is using so much
1:12:14more than anybody else is using in my
1:12:18practice. Most people are on 10,000.
1:12:21But she's making these amazing repairs.
1:12:23Her depression is gone. She's stopped
1:12:25three medicines that we've been using
1:12:26for pain control. She now gets up in the
1:12:29morning and she feels energetic. She's
1:12:31starting a program that the Texas state
1:12:33has for going back to work. I mean, I
1:12:36was like, "This girl's never going back.
1:12:38She wants to go back to work. She is a
1:12:41totally different person." Now,
1:12:43importantly, she is not 100 pounds
1:12:46thinner. She's still 100 pounds
1:12:48overweight. And that is one of the
1:12:50things that happened in most of my
1:12:52patients and clients. The body will not
1:12:54lose that weight until it's really made
1:12:56every repair it thinks is necessary. And
1:12:59then it decides that it's not going to
1:13:02need this fat anymore.
1:13:04>> So with her, did you take her off the B
1:13:06vitamins?
1:13:07>> The routine is that one, they have to do
1:13:11D and this this will become the right
1:13:13sleep program.
1:13:14>> But they have to do D because they're
1:13:15not getting sunlight.
1:13:16>> Correct.
1:13:17>> We none of us really get enough
1:13:18sunlight.
1:13:19>> Correct. So and we can talk about
1:13:21supplement versus sun, but the D is
1:13:24pivotal to the entire program and it has
1:13:26to continue. And if you have a sleep
1:13:29problem or medical problems, you will do
1:13:32better if you get your D above 60 and
1:13:35keep it around there.
1:13:36>> That is not the same as saying what is
1:13:39the ideal D level for a human who wants
1:13:43to overachieve. It is not the same.
1:13:46>> Okay,
1:13:47>> so she's on D. She stays on D the rest
1:13:49of her life as long as she needs it. And
1:13:52she's always checking her D levels. Then
1:13:54she goes on B 100. she happened to be
1:13:56one of the ones that was on D by itself
1:13:58for 2 years. If you have been on D for
1:14:00two or three or 5 years in the past and
1:14:03have developed B vitamin deficiency
1:14:05states, then you will have to go back on
1:14:07D with the B50 and you will do that for
1:14:103 months and then you will stop and
1:14:12you'll go down to a much lower dose
1:14:14that's a multivitamin. One of the things
1:14:17in the background that we haven't talked
1:14:18about yet is there are actually hundreds
1:14:21of things that the bacteria are doing
1:14:23for us that are just starting to be
1:14:25reported. But they have been pivotal all
1:14:28along in all the minerals, all the
1:14:29minerals that show up in a multivitamin.
1:14:32All the magnesium, calcium, selenium,
1:14:35manganese, all these things that
1:14:36nobody's really interested in and they
1:14:38all are in list on their multi
1:14:39multivitamin.
1:14:41All through the same time frame, people
1:14:43are developing iron deficiency and iron
1:14:46overload. And it turns out that the
1:14:48bacteria have been a pivotal part in our
1:14:51intestine, speaking to our body about
1:14:54whether or not our iron level is low or
1:14:56high in the liver or in the blood system
1:14:59in our bone marrow or in our brain. And
1:15:01if you do not have a specific bacteria
1:15:04called Lactobacillus rutery, you will be
1:15:07missing a brand new metabolite or
1:15:10chemical that was named after that
1:15:12bacteria just in the last three years
1:15:14that's called rutery. That is one of the
1:15:17chemical messengers that our body uses.
1:15:20So that means many of the deficiency
1:15:23states that the naturopaths and the
1:15:24functional medicine people are studying
1:15:27are all linked to the fact that this
1:15:29bacterial tube has been doing all these
1:15:32things for us all along. And when you
1:15:35lost them, each individual person has
1:15:38its own set of specific deficiency
1:15:41states that must be addressed for their
1:15:44sleep to get better.
1:15:46>> This is something that I've made for
1:15:48you. I realized that the direio audience
1:15:50are strivvers. Whether it's in business
1:15:52or health, we all have big goals that we
1:15:54want to accomplish. And one of the
1:15:55things I've learned is that when you aim
1:15:57at the big big big goal, it can feel
1:16:00incredibly psychologically uncomfortable
1:16:03because it's kind of like being stood at
1:16:04the foot of Mount Everest and looking
1:16:06upwards. The way to accomplish your
1:16:08goals is by breaking them down into tiny
1:16:11small steps. And we call this in our
1:16:13team the 1%. And actually this
1:16:14philosophy is highly responsible for
1:16:17much of our success here. So what we've
1:16:19done so that you at home can accomplish
1:16:21any big goal that you have is we've made
1:16:23these 1% diaries and we released these
1:16:26last year and they all sold out. So I
1:16:29asked my team over and over again to
1:16:30bring the diaries back but also to
1:16:31introduce some new colors and to make
1:16:33some minor tweaks to the diary. So now
1:16:35we have a better range for you. So, if
1:16:39you have a big goal in mind and you need
1:16:41a framework and a process and some
1:16:43motivation, then I highly recommend you
1:16:45get one of these diaries before they all
1:16:47sell out once again. And you can get
1:16:49yours at the diary.com.
1:16:51And if you want the link, the link is in
1:16:53the description below. I want to go back
1:16:55to Madeline. So, my question was because
1:16:58the research that I'm reading says that
1:16:59vitamin D does not cause trigger or
1:17:01create a B vitamin deficiency.
1:17:03>> No, it's not in the literature except my
1:17:05article. Taking vitamin D supplements
1:17:08will not drain your your body's B
1:17:10vitamins.
1:17:11>> Let me read my my title. Vitamin D
1:17:14deficiency changes the intestinal
1:17:16microbiome, reducing B vitamin
1:17:18production in the gut. The resulting
1:17:20lack of pandaththenic acid adversely
1:17:22affects the immune system, producing a
1:17:24pro-inflammatory state associated with
1:17:26atheroscerosis and autoimmunity. This is
1:17:28a brand new discovery made by someone
1:17:31who's not a scientist, who's not working
1:17:34in the primary lab, who is a clinician.
1:17:37And the impact of this is only as strong
1:17:42as I can get this the ideas out there
1:17:46and talk about what happened to my
1:17:48patients. Now,
1:17:49>> is it is it plausible that there's a
1:17:52sort of a intermediary link
1:17:55um between the two? I'm reading some
1:17:57things here that say people are very
1:17:58frequently both low in vitamin D and
1:18:00vitamin B12 at the same time. And this
1:18:02is because they share the same root
1:18:03cause like a poor gut absorption, aging,
1:18:05or a restrictive diet, not because one
1:18:07vitamin is destroying the other.
1:18:10>> That's what we've been told.
1:18:13We've also been told that old people
1:18:14don't need as much sleep and that old
1:18:16people get a bad gut as they get old. It
1:18:20is my belief now that it is there is an
1:18:24absolute link between the production of
1:18:26D and I don't have the articles for this
1:18:27even though this is dogma at the moment
1:18:30that our production of vitamin D goes
1:18:32down as we get older. So, if you look
1:18:34back to that person who was 75, who
1:18:36didn't get sick until they were 75,
1:18:41[snorts]
1:18:42their skin production, even though
1:18:43they're still out there with their truck
1:18:45farm and still raising their own food,
1:18:47their skin production rate of vitamin D
1:18:49goes down. And this is probably true for
1:18:51every animal. And then as their D goes
1:18:54low, they lose their microbiome. And
1:18:56then they die of one of the multiple
1:18:58diseases that are linked to this
1:19:00multiple deficiency state. It's a
1:19:02different lens to look through that says
1:19:07there is actually a system that allowed
1:19:10us to live without medical problems that
1:19:12weren't either related to epidemics of
1:19:16childhood illness or starving to death.
1:19:19And as long as we had good diets, you
1:19:21can actually look at 1945 to about 1985
1:19:24and say, what was the ideal for the
1:19:26humans that lived rurally in the United
1:19:28States? Did they live to be 75 years
1:19:31old? and then get diseases. So it's my
1:19:34claim that those people didn't go to the
1:19:36doctor because there weren't any around
1:19:38them and then things started to happen
1:19:40to them that instead of looking at it
1:19:43through the lens of this disease means
1:19:45this drug that instead we say we should
1:19:49pre-preventing this by paying attention
1:19:51to what vitamin D does in the body and
1:19:54what the bees do in the body and
1:19:57ultimately
1:20:00that is linked to most of our diseases.
1:20:03is okay. So I'll read the conclusion of
1:20:04your study here which was published in
1:20:062016. I hypothesize and it's important
1:20:08to say [clears throat] this is a
1:20:09hypothesis that the parallel epidemics
1:20:11of abnormal sleep and abnormal
1:20:13intestinal microbiome are linked to one
1:20:16another through vitamin D deficiency.
1:20:18Proper supplementation doses of vitamin
1:20:20D plus all eight B vitamins appears to
1:20:22return the intestinal microbiome to
1:20:24normal in 3 months. Reinstating the
1:20:26normal microbiome not only treats IBS
1:20:28symptoms, it returns the supply of
1:20:30vitamin
1:20:31B's to their natural daily doses. The B
1:20:34vitamins are neither good for us nor
1:20:36unnecessary. They are good for the
1:20:38person who needs them and only until the
1:20:40normal source picks up again. Both sleep
1:20:42disruption and pain can be caused by
1:20:44large doses of B vitamins once the
1:20:46intestinal microbiome has returned to
1:20:48normal. The B vitamins are very
1:20:50biologically intertwined both in their
1:20:53intestinal production and cellulose
1:20:55cellular use. This suggests that B
1:20:57vitamins, aside from B12, were not meant
1:20:59to be used individually and returning to
1:21:01restorative sleep with normal supply of
1:21:03the building blocks of cellular repair
1:21:04has the potential to repair the
1:21:06pro-inflammatory state seen in
1:21:09association with a chloris
1:21:12>> atheroscerosis
1:21:14>> as well as the hyperadrogenic
1:21:17state of associated with hypertension,
1:21:18heart disease and stroke. It appears
1:21:20that given the proper essential elements
1:21:22for normal sleep, the body is designed
1:21:23to repair every physical injury that
1:21:25occurs during normal daily use and may
1:21:28even retain a memory of long deferred
1:21:30repairs. So essentially, you're saying
1:21:32that um if you can return the body's
1:21:35vitamin D and and B levels to normal,
1:21:39then the body will kick back up and
1:21:41start producing
1:21:43the um everything it needs. Yes,
1:21:46>> I guess the scientific consensus at the
1:21:48moment is saying that there's not a link
1:21:50between vitamin D and a vitamin B well
1:21:54it's saying that vitamin D does not
1:21:55cause a a vitamin B deficiency.
1:21:58>> Correct.
1:21:58>> And you disagree with that?
1:22:00>> Absolutely.
1:22:00>> And now could it be the case that
1:22:02there's some intermediary like i.e. if I
1:22:05take if I take lots of vitamin D, it
1:22:08disrupts my magnesium production and the
1:22:11magnesium production is having an impact
1:22:13on vitamin B. And could it be the case
1:22:15that it's something else?
1:22:16>> Yes, of course.
1:22:19>> Okay.
1:22:20>> And in fact, it's way more complicated
1:22:22than you and I have talked about. And
1:22:25where you finally arrive is actually at
1:22:28co-enzyme A deficiency.
1:22:30And that is a very important chemical.
1:22:33It runs our mitochondrial health and our
1:22:37ability to make energy. And it's linked
1:22:39to all the degenerative diseases etc.
1:22:43So, it's not that
1:22:47I don't understand the idea that once
1:22:51you're a hammer, everything's a nail
1:22:53because that's what I was told by all of
1:22:55my colleagues that you're trying to
1:22:57explain everything. It's that I saw
1:23:00Meline go back to work and we haven't
1:23:03even talked about what happened to
1:23:04Natalie.
1:23:05>> What happened to Natalie? Natalie got
1:23:07better and actually how
1:23:10>> she first with the D like most of the
1:23:13patients she started to sleep better but
1:23:15at the end of two years she stopped
1:23:17sleeping better. She actually lost
1:23:20weight which was the case with several
1:23:22of the women that were postpartum who
1:23:24had complained about that. So in some my
1:23:27interpretation was in someone who is
1:23:29less affected than Meline was the DB50
1:23:33combination especially in the setting of
1:23:36being after the pregnancy is really all
1:23:39somebody who was relatively normal at
1:23:41the start of their life needs
1:23:44and then she got better. Her
1:23:47anti-depressant went away. Her
1:23:48postpartum depression cleared her high
1:23:52heart rate. So the other thing that we
1:23:53didn't mention is many of these women
1:23:55who are very interested in exercise and
1:23:57doing exercise had high heart rates of
1:24:00110 or above sitting quietly and had not
1:24:04been like that before. Their high heart
1:24:05rates come down. So she came back to
1:24:09being her normal self again
1:24:11>> and did she have to come off the vitamin
1:24:12B?
1:24:13>> She only took it for 3 months.
1:24:15>> Okay. And
1:24:16>> and then she did a multivitamin and then
1:24:17eventually almost everybody needs to be
1:24:19off the multivitamin completely. It is
1:24:22my belief that if all of this happens
1:24:25spontaneously in every other animal on
1:24:27the planet,
1:24:28then we shouldn't have to take
1:24:30supplements either. The squirrels are
1:24:31not going to GNC to buy supplements.
1:24:35That means if there's a mistake made
1:24:37like we move indoors and we give back
1:24:41what is needed to get the normal
1:24:43microbiome,
1:24:44then you should assume that your body
1:24:48will go back to supporting itself. And
1:24:51Natalie's she's good again.
1:24:52>> Natalie's back to being a triathlete and
1:24:56doing great.
1:24:56>> If we zoom out for a second, what is the
1:24:59advice you'll give to all of my
1:25:00listeners now? There might be millions
1:25:01of them all over the world. Some of
1:25:02which are struggling with sleep. Some of
1:25:04them just want to, you know, optimize
1:25:06their sleep a little bit. What is the
1:25:07the over overarching advice, the thing
1:25:09that all of them could could do to make
1:25:10sure they sleep better in your view?
1:25:12>> One, do the behavioral cognitive stuff
1:25:15first. Make the bike out curtains. Do
1:25:17the whole thing. If you haven't done
1:25:20that with the eye cover, then go ahead
1:25:23and do that. And if that's all you need,
1:25:25do not mess around with supplements.
1:25:29Two, if you've already done the
1:25:31behavioral changes,
1:25:33then go to my website, read about the
1:25:36ideas, or listen to this podcast, and
1:25:38see whether or not the ideas there feel
1:25:42like they apply to you.
1:25:43>> You've come up with this protocol called
1:25:45the right sleep protocol. What is that?
1:25:48And can you walk me through it?
1:25:49>> Sure. So, the right sleep program is a
1:25:53process of taking your D to a certain
1:25:55level,
1:25:57supplementing B12 if your B12 is at a
1:25:59certain level below a certain level,
1:26:02taking B50 for 3 months, and then taking
1:26:05a multivitamin.
1:26:07And that is until your body says, gee, I
1:26:10might need more bees.
1:26:14This is a diagram. And you have a
1:26:16beautiful step-wise
1:26:18visual assist here. The first 3 months,
1:26:23if your B12 is low, you will take B12 as
1:26:25a separate supplement. And keep in mind,
1:26:27there's a lot to be learned about
1:26:29multivitamins. For instance, many
1:26:31multivitamins say multivitamin on the
1:26:34front, but they actually have the
1:26:36equivalent of B50 in them. They have 50
1:26:39milligrams of all these B vitamins. In
1:26:41fact, if you go to an expensive vitamin
1:26:43store, they put up the doses of bees.
1:26:47The doses of these vitamins are
1:26:49extremely important for the way you feel
1:26:52every day. If you get it right, you feel
1:26:55energetic, perky, and wonderful all day.
1:26:57If you get it wrong, you feel awful in
1:26:58the same way you did before. You have to
1:27:00look at the back. You have to learn some
1:27:02of the name of these vitamins. Most
1:27:03people are not that interested in that.
1:27:05If you want to get better, that's what
1:27:06you have to do. So, the first step is
1:27:09you're taking all four of these. Then
1:27:12in the second step for a period of
1:27:16usually 3 to 4 months, you're still
1:27:19taking B12 if you were B12 deficient.
1:27:22You're still taking vitamin D and you're
1:27:24adjusting your vitamin D dosing based on
1:27:27recommendations based on your D levels
1:27:29that you're doing every month. And I
1:27:31show you how to get them done properly
1:27:34because the vitamin D levels that your
1:27:35doctor is doing are not accurate,
1:27:37unfortunately. nor do they know that or
1:27:40care and you're still taking a
1:27:42multivitamin. Then after [clears throat]
1:27:46the three months that are depicted here,
1:27:50it turns out if your sleep is much
1:27:52better,
1:27:54you will actually get to a place where
1:27:59your body will stop sleeping well again.
1:28:02And it turns out that your brain is
1:28:05asking for more additional bees. The
1:28:08basic bottom line is the sleep is a
1:28:11thing that once you learn how to use it
1:28:14and once you learn the concept that if
1:28:17in the third or fourth month of this
1:28:19program, my sleep gets much better and
1:28:23then in the sixth month it gets worse
1:28:25again, what you should take from that is
1:28:28my brain really knows how to do this. It
1:28:30was able to get me to sleep from 10 to 6
1:28:34with one brief wake up. Went back to
1:28:37sleep. didn't get up to pee and I have
1:28:39no pain when I wake up and I feel
1:28:41energetic all day long. It knows how to
1:28:43do that. When it doesn't do it again two
1:28:46months later, the message is not, "Oh
1:28:49man, I knew it wouldn't work cuz
1:28:51everything else I've tried didn't work."
1:28:53Instead, it means what my brain is
1:28:56asking for is something else. Then you
1:29:00address that.
1:29:03On my website, I also have multiple
1:29:06videos of Q&As's addressing questions
1:29:09like, I'm in the fifth month and this
1:29:11happened to me, etc. So, what I would
1:29:15give as advice is one, supplementation
1:29:18is only good for you if there's
1:29:20something wrong with you that you're
1:29:22trying to correct.
1:29:24Two, keep a log of what happens to that
1:29:27thing because we tend to forget. All my
1:29:31headache patients forget that they had
1:29:33headaches when they go away. That's
1:29:35challenging to a clinician because they
1:29:37come back and they say, "Yeah, I still
1:29:39have headaches." And then their husband
1:29:41says, "Wait, we were in Vegas two weeks
1:29:44ago and you said we didn't you didn't
1:29:45have any headaches at all." And she
1:29:47says, "Oh, I know, but they're back
1:29:49now." We view it as it should have fixed
1:29:51me and now it hasn't. This is a
1:29:53different belief system where the answer
1:29:55is your brain is asking you for
1:29:57something. interpreting [clears throat]
1:29:59what it's asking for is difficult but
1:30:01possible.
1:30:02>> So number one was
1:30:05>> if you do not have something wrong with
1:30:06you, do not mess with supplements,
1:30:08especially D.
1:30:10>> Number two is keep a log.
1:30:11>> Read more. Think about it. Think about
1:30:14it a little bit. Think about whether or
1:30:15not there are things that are bothering
1:30:17you.
1:30:17>> Okay. Number three. Number three is if
1:30:19there's something bothering you, then
1:30:21decide you're actually going to take
1:30:23some time and you're going to learn
1:30:25about a system which allows you to give
1:30:28supplements that lets your body be fully
1:30:32replete, which means fills up all the
1:30:34deficiencies. And that's your final
1:30:37outcome will be great sleep, great
1:30:40repair, and you will be doing things
1:30:43that will allow your body to prevent
1:30:46>> degenerative illness. Why don't you
1:30:47just, you know, why don't I just instead
1:30:49of taking supplements or be this, be
1:30:51that, be the other, D, whatever, why
1:30:53don't I just go outside in the sun and
1:30:56have a better diet?
1:30:57>> I think that's a a great question. And
1:31:01here's the problem.
1:31:02>> So, I've got, you know, I've got all
1:31:03these things, these wonderful things
1:31:04here. I've got I've got some kimchi,
1:31:08which is good for the gut microbiome.
1:31:09I've heard I've got kombucha. I've got
1:31:13uh some yogurt thing here. I've got I
1:31:15can't even pronounce that. Sauerkraut.
1:31:16>> Sauerkraut. And I've got some caffier.
1:31:18Why don't I just have all this stuff,
1:31:21which is great for my gut microbiome,
1:31:23and then go outside and spend spend the
1:31:25morning in the sunshine getting up
1:31:26improving my vitamin D levels.
1:31:28Presumably, this is going to help my gut
1:31:29and the sunshine is going to help my
1:31:30vitamin D. Voila.
1:31:33>> I think you could actually do that. If
1:31:35there's not much wrong with you, I think
1:31:37that's the better path. Frankly,
1:31:40supplementing with vitamin D is not the
1:31:42same as being outdoors.
1:31:44>> Okay, explain. not the same.
1:31:45>> What do you mean it's not the same? How
1:31:46is it different?
1:31:48>> Cuz my doctor did a blood test recently
1:31:49and uh I did two blood tests. One at
1:31:51Nikico Health # #investor. Um, Nico
1:31:54Health. And the Nico Health test that I
1:31:57did said I was vitamin D deficient,
1:31:59which doesn't surprise me cuz I live in
1:32:01this dark bunker. I I never leave the
1:32:03driver studio. People just walk in and I
1:32:05live in here and I eat in here and I But
1:32:06I am vitamin D deficient, it said. So I
1:32:09went to the store and I just started
1:32:10taking vitamin D. I assume that's fixed
1:32:11it.
1:32:13Why is vitamin D supplementation
1:32:15different from being out in the sun?
1:32:17>> There is a lot of literature about by a
1:32:19gal named Stephanie Senf who says that
1:32:22the vitamin D that we make on our sk
1:32:24skin is sulfated which is different than
1:32:26the vitamin D we're taking a
1:32:28supplemented and it has a different
1:32:30behavior in the body. Number two, it
1:32:32turns out there's a lot of literature
1:32:34that shows that vitamin D is not the
1:32:36only thing made by UVB hitting your your
1:32:38skin. And what it's hitting is
1:32:40cholesterol. And that cholesterol has
1:32:42changed in this chemical called D3.
1:32:45But there are probably 15 20 other
1:32:49chemicals that are being made at the
1:32:51same time.
1:32:52>> Okay,
1:32:53>> they are not being taken with that pill
1:32:55of vitamin D3. That is a separate
1:32:58literature that's just gotten really
1:33:01some attention in the last 10 years.
1:33:03There are all these other things that
1:33:05prevent inflammation that do things to
1:33:08your skin that were actually being made
1:33:11by the sunlight that you're being
1:33:12exposed to that protects you from the
1:33:15damaging effects.
1:33:16>> So why can't someone who is really
1:33:18struggling with their sleep, why can't
1:33:20the prescription just be improve your
1:33:23diet?
1:33:23>> Have you tried that with patients? Oh,
1:33:25you said you No,
1:33:26>> one of the reasons why these are
1:33:29effective
1:33:30>> the the the
1:33:31>> the fermented foods. Okay, fermented
1:33:33food means you're eating rotting food.
1:33:37That's not the way we call it because it
1:33:39sounds disgusting. Okay, but bacteria
1:33:43are growing in here. Yeah.
1:33:45>> And they're secretreting things like B
1:33:47vitamins and rutery. They're making a
1:33:50yeast bacterial mixture. So there's
1:33:52fungus growing in there. There are
1:33:54viruses in there. There are many
1:33:56microbiomes.
1:33:57>> Microbes.
1:33:57>> Microbes. Thank you.
1:33:58>> Look at me. [snorts]
1:34:00Look at me.
1:34:01>> Awesome.
1:34:01>> That means you're eating bacteria.
1:34:04You're basically eating a food that has
1:34:06to be 50 in it,
1:34:08>> which is great.
1:34:09>> Yeah. So,
1:34:09>> so why don't you give
1:34:11>> because I have no idea what the time
1:34:13frame will be for this having that
1:34:16success for you. This is the easy way.
1:34:19This is the fast way. This is the way I
1:34:21can tell you that I've had more
1:34:23experience with my clients over time.
1:34:26And if you want to fix something that's
1:34:28really badly off, by the time you get a
1:34:30sleep disorder,
1:34:30>> for those that can't see because they're
1:34:32just listening on audio, you're pointing
1:34:33at the vitamins.
1:34:34>> I'm pointing at the vitamins and the
1:34:36step-wise approach, which is the fast
1:34:37and easy approach.
1:34:38>> Exactly. And if you don't want to use
1:34:41supplements, I would support you all the
1:34:43way
1:34:44>> in doing what?
1:34:45>> In going outside, just what you've
1:34:46described. I think the healthier
1:34:49approach to all of our diseases is to be
1:34:53outside much more and to include these
1:34:56fermented foods.
1:34:57>> Now, on this point of being outside much
1:34:59more, some people live in cloudy places.
1:35:01You know, I spent a lot of my life
1:35:02living in places like London in the UK.
1:35:04Exactly.
1:35:04>> And there's not much sunlight,
1:35:05>> right?
1:35:06>> So, what do I do about that?
1:35:07>> Remember how I said that Meline was a
1:35:09redhead?
1:35:10>> Yeah.
1:35:11>> That turns out to be important. So,
1:35:13melanin is the pigment that humans have
1:35:15in their skin. M
1:35:16>> you have more than I do. I put more
1:35:19melanin as I stay out in the sun more
1:35:21and I tan. [clears throat]
1:35:23>> That melanin is absorbing energy. It's
1:35:26there to protect you from overexposure
1:35:29to sunlight and damaging effects on the
1:35:31DNA of your skin. The red head gene
1:35:35usually comes with freckles which means
1:35:37that there is only little tiny parts of
1:35:39the skin that have melanin.
1:35:42And the redhead gene came about in the
1:35:44far north Viking Scotland.
1:35:48And those places don't get much
1:35:50sunlight. That means it cleared out the
1:35:53blocker of the thing that collected that
1:35:57energy and allowed people who lived in
1:36:00very overcast environments to make D
1:36:03because the melanin didn't block the
1:36:06conversion to vitamin D and all these
1:36:08other things that it does. So redheads
1:36:09actually have a bit of a superpower when
1:36:11it comes to their relationship with the
1:36:12sunshine, they can make significantly
1:36:14more.
1:36:15>> That depends. Now, if you pick up all
1:36:17the Scotsmen and you put them in Texas
1:36:20and Oklahoma, which is where I live, and
1:36:23many of the people there have red hair
1:36:26and they came from Scotsman, the problem
1:36:28is they're now in an environment with
1:36:30very high sun levels. It's very hot in
1:36:33the summer and they cannot tolerate the
1:36:36level of sun. That means if you get to a
1:36:39point on the world where you pick up big
1:36:41populations and you move them into
1:36:43another weather type, they have not had
1:36:45enough time to adapt. There are things
1:36:47about melanin amounts
1:36:50and our survival that make a difference.
1:36:53So I still recommend that supplementing
1:36:56with D is not the whole answer.
1:36:58Supplementation in and of itself is not
1:37:00what we want. What we want is our kids
1:37:02to be outside much more. There are now
1:37:05new learning environments for kids where
1:37:07they're out in the forest, where they're
1:37:10not enclosed in school rooms. There's
1:37:13some interesting stats I found which
1:37:14says that 90% of Americans spend close
1:37:16to 22 hours inside every day. That was
1:37:21from USA Today. And roughly 20% of
1:37:23Americans never go outside regularly
1:37:26spending 24 hours indoors.
1:37:29And downstream from vitamin D, there's
1:37:31not just sleep disruption. There's lots
1:37:33of problems, isn't there? Yes,
1:37:34>> I can start listing them and they're all
1:37:36related in the background to what we've
1:37:38talked about. But diabetes, even though
1:37:41you've had lots of really interesting
1:37:43shows about that, diabetes is happening
1:37:46in parallel with the sleep disorder.
1:37:49It's not caused by the sleep disorder.
1:37:51It has similar chemical in the
1:37:53background. There are many types, but
1:37:56diabetes just means there's a mismatch
1:37:58between the amount of insulin from the
1:38:00amount of sugar.
1:38:03Let me say that I'm not trying to say
1:38:05that America doesn't eat badly. America
1:38:07eats badly. I was just in Europe and
1:38:10that eating patterns in the US are
1:38:13terrible. But there are other things
1:38:16that are playing a role and diabetes
1:38:19shows up. Remember how Meline had
1:38:22gestational diabetes
1:38:24and so did this wonderful Natalie who
1:38:27did everything we told her to. Why would
1:38:30Natalie show up with gestational
1:38:31diabetes when she's not fat? Her
1:38:36supply of this thing called co-enzyme A
1:38:38is not enough to keep up with supplying
1:38:41the child and herself. So for a while
1:38:44she really has a deficiency state and
1:38:46you start to see it. We've learn to
1:38:48measure the sugar and the measuring the
1:38:51sugar is one of the signs of a
1:38:54deficiency state that's in the
1:38:55background that actually affects a
1:38:57hundred things in the body. It makes
1:38:59acetylcholine which allows our whole
1:39:02autonomic nervous system to sleep nor to
1:39:04react normally. So it affects all of
1:39:06those things that we do is when we're
1:39:08training and it also affects cortisol
1:39:11levels. You must have co-enzyme A to
1:39:12make cortisol. You must have co-enzyme A
1:39:14to make melatonin.
1:39:16>> So the things linked to vitamin D are
1:39:18everything from bone disorders,
1:39:19autoimmune diseases, mental health,
1:39:21brain disorders, cardiovascular,
1:39:22metabolic issues, immune infections, and
1:39:24then certain cancers. I I I imagine at
1:39:26this stage in the conversation the
1:39:27audience are very much looking for like
1:39:29actionable advice. So we've talked about
1:39:32the the right sleep protocol which is
1:39:35this sort of vitamin approach and then
1:39:37the other approach is to get outside in
1:39:41the sunshine more
1:39:42>> and you don't have to be in direct
1:39:43sunlight.
1:39:44>> You have to be in direct sunlight to
1:39:46make vitamin D on your skin.
1:39:47>> Okay?
1:39:48>> But you should limit the amount that you
1:39:50do so you do not burn your skin. that
1:39:52it's [clears throat] important that UVA,
1:39:54if you're going to use a um go to a
1:39:57tanning salon, if they're using UVA, you
1:40:00are not making vitamin D from that. So,
1:40:02there are different kinds of beds. UVA
1:40:05will still tan you, but it will not make
1:40:07D.
1:40:07>> So, you don't have to be in direct
1:40:09sunlight. So, if I'm at a window and I
1:40:11can't see the sun and it's overcast, am
1:40:13I still making vitamin D?
1:40:15>> No, you can't make anything through the
1:40:17window.
1:40:17>> Okay. So, what I go outside, I can't see
1:40:19the sun cuz there's clouds. I'm still
1:40:21making vitamin D.
1:40:22>> Maybe it can be that you will actually
1:40:25still get a burn. Okay, that is from UVA
1:40:30and UVB penetrating that cloud.
1:40:33>> Okay,
1:40:33>> so that does mean that you can make some
1:40:35vitamin D on a day that it's cloudy.
1:40:39And the only way to know how much
1:40:41vitamin D you are actually making is to
1:40:43do your vitamin D levels over time.
1:40:45Looking at some data here, it says that
1:40:47um you can make a little bit of vitamin
1:40:49D during overcast times. Um up to 80% of
1:40:53UV radiation still penetrates light
1:40:55cloud cover. So, you can absolutely
1:40:56still make vitamin D, though it might
1:40:58take a few minutes longer than it would
1:40:59on a completely clear day. When it's
1:41:01thick, dark, and overcast, or dense
1:41:03storms or clouds, that can block up to
1:41:0570 to 90% of UVB rays. On these days,
1:41:08it's incredibly difficult for your skin
1:41:10to produce any meaningful amount of
1:41:12vitamin D. You know these like lamps
1:41:14that they put on desks and stuff? Can
1:41:16you get vitamin D from that?
1:41:17>> No. But make let me make you a point
1:41:19here that's not in my field but in the
1:41:21infrared field.
1:41:24There are so many other wavelengths of
1:41:26energy that you receive when you're
1:41:27outside. So you can be sitting on a
1:41:29porch where you're not in direct
1:41:30sunlight and you are still receiving
1:41:32infrared. And infrared is one of the
1:41:35most important
1:41:38uh wavelengths that we know about that
1:41:40penetrates the body several centimeters
1:41:42and actually gives energy to the
1:41:44mitochondria. Our bodies are like little
1:41:47batteries that we receive energy from
1:41:50sunlight and we can do that sitting on
1:41:52the porch without being in direct
1:41:53sunlight. and fire. Also, the reason why
1:41:57it looks red is because it has infrared
1:41:59and incandescent bulbs, which we've now
1:42:01stopped using.
1:42:03>> So, what's the advice here?
1:42:04>> Some people believe that you should use
1:42:06incandescent bulbs on a lamp that's on
1:42:08your desk. The problem is
1:42:09>> incandescent bulb,
1:42:10>> it gives you rays of light. like LED is
1:42:13an electron
1:42:16um producing light source which the
1:42:20government has suggested that is better
1:42:23than incandescent lights. It's very
1:42:25difficult to buy incandescent bulbs like
1:42:27the bulbs that we used to use. Now
1:42:30you'll get H hallogen or LEDs and they
1:42:33do not give off infrared light uh
1:42:36energy. So, an incandescent bulb is the
1:42:38old school glass light bulbs. Um, the
1:42:40kind Thomas Edison used to use. It
1:42:43creates light by running an electrical
1:42:44current through a metal filament until
1:42:46it gets so hot that it glows. Because it
1:42:48relies on raw heat, an incandescent bulb
1:42:49bulb behaves exactly like a miniature
1:42:52fire or a tiny piece of the sun. H. So,
1:42:55yeah, those incandescent bulbs are hard
1:42:56harder to come by these days, but yeah,
1:42:58my fiance, she's a big fan of them.
1:43:00>> Yeah.
1:43:00>> And she's trying to fill our house with
1:43:01them.
1:43:02>> Yeah, she's right.
1:43:03>> So, is there anything else? You know,
1:43:05also I've got these prebiotics here.
1:43:07Prebiotics. Probiotics. A lot of people
1:43:09say that you should take prebiotics.
1:43:10Probiotics. Have you tried giving them
1:43:11to your patients?
1:43:12>> I was on probiotics and so are my
1:43:14patients when we started and it had not
1:43:15corrected the microbiome. It was just a
1:43:17try. We're going to dump the bacteria
1:43:19down there and maybe they'll get back to
1:43:21normal. Okay. That is what a probiotic
1:43:25is considered. They have the actual
1:43:27bacteria freeze-dried and you eat the
1:43:30bacteria. kind of gross when you think
1:43:32about it as being poop bacteria, but
1:43:35that's what it is. Okay. Now, what
1:43:37prebiotic has that's different is that
1:43:40you feed the bacteria and they feed you.
1:43:44That's really what happens. What I love
1:43:46about this is there are different things
1:43:49that they're feeding the bacteria. We're
1:43:51kind of interested in what they think.
1:43:54How do we know what they think? Well,
1:43:56what if I change to carnivore
1:43:59and all of a sudden my belly gas goes
1:44:02away?
1:44:03>> The carnivore diet where you just eat
1:44:04meat
1:44:05>> carniv mostly meat. Let's say 90% meat
1:44:09and most of my belly complaints go away
1:44:11and I poop regularly. Then you've just
1:44:13been very successful at making your
1:44:16bacteria very happy.
1:44:18What if the next client who I have is a
1:44:21mostly plant-based?
1:44:24Then I have to change the way I think
1:44:27and the way I help them and encourage
1:44:30them to recognize that when we're
1:44:32feeding mostly plant-based, we have a
1:44:35different set of bacteria. Now, let me
1:44:37propose something to you. Humans cover
1:44:40the globe like cockroaches.
1:44:43We are very successful and we have a
1:44:46hugely varied diet. I would claim that
1:44:49that means you should eat the diet that
1:44:53works for you.
1:44:55The place where you see something that
1:44:57is really important for the US is the
1:45:00original articles about vitamin
1:45:01deficiency states were in two groups
1:45:04that ate a pure carbohydrate diet. So
1:45:07the claim right now for most the people
1:45:10that are interested in healthy diets is
1:45:12if you eat a fully carbohydrate diet,
1:45:15you're set up for failure in a million
1:45:17different ways. And then they talk about
1:45:19the diet you should eat. There are two
1:45:21incidences from the 1940s
1:45:24where the first vitamin deficiency
1:45:26states were described and both of them
1:45:27turn out to be purely carbohydrate
1:45:29diets. One of them was in the Japanese
1:45:32prisoner of war camps and the batan
1:45:35[clears throat] death march in World War
1:45:38II where they had rice, rice, rice.
1:45:42That's it. And they're outside all the
1:45:44time. They're not vitamin D deficient.
1:45:47They're discovered to have berry berry.
1:45:49And berry berry is an old disease
1:45:50described in Japan when you take off the
1:45:53rice casing. So ultimately they gave
1:45:56back meat and vegetables and berry berry
1:45:59is described as heart failure,
1:46:01non-healing ulcers of the legs, bright
1:46:05shiny red skin and burning in the feet
1:46:07that we see in the elderly in the US all
1:46:09the time in the hospital
1:46:13that is now ignored. But you can
1:46:16actually get to a state where you're
1:46:18feeding only carbohydrates. But now the
1:46:20lens you're looking through is I was
1:46:22feeding my bacteria a purely
1:46:24carbohydrate diet. I therefore selected
1:46:27for bacterial populations that were not
1:46:30producing the B vitamins that I needed.
1:46:33It's seeing it through a slightly
1:46:34different lens. The same thing about
1:46:37pelagra which is actually a niacin
1:46:40deficiency in adults and children that
1:46:42were institutionalized in the south of
1:46:44the United States in the 30s and 40s and
1:46:47fed corn grl as their only food. So
1:46:52there's still a piece of information
1:46:54there that is your diet absolutely
1:46:56affects who lives inside you. And once
1:47:00you have a purely carbohydrate diet for
1:47:03many years and you're D deficient, it is
1:47:05very likely you're going to have to do
1:47:07something more aggressive,
1:47:09either change your diet and do fermented
1:47:12foods and change to a meat and plant
1:47:15diet and you're going to have to watch
1:47:17what your body does. And if you're not
1:47:19able and in and my claim would still be
1:47:22the sleep that you have should still be
1:47:24your best measure of whether you've
1:47:27succeeded in what you'd like to do.
1:47:30>> And again, to track your sleep, there's
1:47:31lots of different ways to do that.
1:47:32Obviously, none of them are perfect. Um,
1:47:34but you can buy sleep trackers and those
1:47:36kinds of things and see how you're
1:47:39doing.
1:47:39>> Yes. And I would also say use your sleep
1:47:42tracker. I don't use mine regularly
1:47:44because I get obsessed by it. I I start
1:47:46to think, "Oh, I only had an hour and a
1:47:49half of RAM. I'm dying." And I just get
1:47:51spiral downward. Okay. So, what your
1:47:54body is saying to you is still very
1:47:56important. I didn't have sleep trackers
1:47:58when I was seeing all these things that
1:47:59were happening to Meline and and
1:48:01Natalie. I would listen to what they
1:48:03said about their sleep.
1:48:05>> I imagine a lot of people clicked on
1:48:07this conversation because they are
1:48:08struggling with sleep or they have a
1:48:09partner or friend or maybe just because
1:48:11they want to optimize their sleep a
1:48:12little bit. And what I've really taken
1:48:14away is that um a lot of sleep related
1:48:17issues start in the gut microbiome. Yes.
1:48:19So we want to try and fix the gut
1:48:20microbiome. And how we fix the gut
1:48:22microbiome is can be dietary. It can be
1:48:24through supplementation.
1:48:26>> But we want to try and do it through
1:48:27diet first and fermented foods.
1:48:29>> Um and then the other thing is sunlight
1:48:32plays a big role. You're smoking again.
1:48:34>> You're doing a fabulous job.
1:48:36>> Oh, you're so sweet. Um the other the
1:48:38other thing is sunlight plays a big role
1:48:39because it produces vitamin D and
1:48:41amongst other things which also can
1:48:43improve that balance and help us sleep
1:48:45better.
1:48:45>> Yes.
1:48:46>> And we also want to try the stuff that
1:48:47everybody talks about Matthew Walker
1:48:49talks about temperature and
1:48:50>> yes
1:48:51>> eye masks and all that kind of stuff. I
1:48:52guess the big insight here is that
1:48:54vitamins play a really important role in
1:48:57sleep.
1:48:57>> Yes.
1:48:58>> As you've seen through the thousands of
1:49:00patients that you've spent time with and
1:49:02helped to uh restore to a healthy sleep
1:49:05state.
1:49:05>> Yes. That's a beautiful summary.
1:49:07>> What is the most important thing we
1:49:08haven't talked about that we should have
1:49:09talked about? Is there anything at all?
1:49:12>> We have skipped the people who have been
1:49:14told they have
1:49:17a disease narcolepsy
1:49:20or sleep apnoa
1:49:22um where they're told there's a specific
1:49:25this is a genetic thing and you have to
1:49:28do these specific things. For instance,
1:49:30for narcolepsy,
1:49:32this is an attack of sleep that takes
1:49:34you out and you become I'm sitting here
1:49:37talking to you and I fall asleep.
1:49:40That turns out to be
1:49:43treatable in the same way.
1:49:44>> You're saying a lot of it can be about
1:49:46vitamins.
1:49:47>> Yes, you can sleep deprive anyone to the
1:49:49point of falling asleep when I talk to
1:49:50you. All you have to do is, you know,
1:49:52two or three nights that you miss and
1:49:54you can still become taken down by an
1:49:57attack of sleep. That really is what
1:49:58narcolepsy means. That means medicine in
1:50:02its attempt to classify things have said
1:50:05this is a disease and the idea that they
1:50:09are all about our body falling out of
1:50:13its normal state.
1:50:16What's different about people who have
1:50:19that a a specific diagnosis like sleep
1:50:21apnnea and narcopsy is they are unlikely
1:50:24to be able to cure that with going
1:50:26outside and kimchi. They are at an end
1:50:29stage. Your body was really set up to be
1:50:33able to deal with different diets,
1:50:35getting up in the middle of the night,
1:50:36take care of your baby, traveling long
1:50:39periods of time, all these stressors
1:50:41that we've had for the last 300,000
1:50:43years. It was set up to do that and to
1:50:47get back to sleeping again.
1:50:50And people lived for long periods of
1:50:52time. That wasn't the average, but there
1:50:54were people that lived to be 75 years
1:50:55old 20,000 years ago. That means that's
1:50:59the best we can do. If you have a
1:51:02disease of your sleep switches, you are
1:51:05really severely affected. And my
1:51:08experience would say that that person is
1:51:11not going to be able to approach it by
1:51:13just going outside and doing kimchi.
1:51:15That person is going to need some extra
1:51:17help and they're going to need sometimes
1:51:21professional help with someone who's
1:51:22seeing it through this lens
1:51:25because they go through changes. They
1:51:27for instance when when you get them a
1:51:29little bit better
1:51:30so that they're sleeping at night, they
1:51:33actually start to have nightmares.
1:51:35What that means in a setting like that
1:51:37is they've actually gotten into REM
1:51:40sleep, but they haven't gotten perfect
1:51:43chemistry so that they sleep through the
1:51:45REM
1:51:47phase, finish up, go into light sleep,
1:51:49and then go to the next. They've
1:51:51awakened, so they can't keep themselves
1:51:53in REM. There are transition states
1:51:56where they actually feel like they're
1:51:57getting worse. So, there are all sorts
1:51:59of things that I've been able to see
1:52:01that are not talked about at the sleep
1:52:03meetings that are totally fascinating
1:52:05that are halfway better and that people
1:52:09can cure their narcopsy. I have one gal
1:52:11right now who just called me to become a
1:52:15client. She has narcopsy and she has
1:52:17completely cured herself by using
1:52:21nicotine patches around the clock.
1:52:24Why? because there is only one drug that
1:52:27duplicates acetylcholine completely and
1:52:30it's nicotine.
1:52:32So she stopped smoking and she uses
1:52:34nicotine patches. Nicotine is the
1:52:38duplicate of acetylcholine.
1:52:40Acetylcholine allows us to focus, pay
1:52:43attention, be distracted, and come right
1:52:45back during the day. It is in control of
1:52:48our ability to concentrate. At night, it
1:52:52allows us to get into REM sleep. That
1:52:54one chemical does wake and sleep,
1:52:56doesn't it, in different parts of the
1:52:58brain.
1:52:59That means she is using something that
1:53:01has been terribly vilified. Tobacco is
1:53:04considered to be the cause of all evil.
1:53:07It turns out, oddly enough, the guys
1:53:10with Parkinson's disease who smoked
1:53:12throughout the last 30 years have been
1:53:15shown to do better because Parkinson's
1:53:17disease is an acetylcholine deficiency
1:53:19state. First
1:53:20>> to give a bit of background on I guess
1:53:21the the problem we've really talked
1:53:22about. Um I have this little paragraph
1:53:24here which I thought summarizes the
1:53:26nature of the problem and the sleep
1:53:28epidemic. It says while while
1:53:30industrialization first disrupted our
1:53:32natural rhythms by moving society
1:53:34indoors, the true explosion of sleep
1:53:36disorders occurred in two modern phases.
1:53:38A medical boom in the 1980s and a
1:53:40digital epidemic in the 2000s. In the
1:53:421980s, the formal recognition of sleep
1:53:44medicine and the intervention of the
1:53:46CPAP machine diagnosed millions with
1:53:49obstructive sleep apnea, sparking a
1:53:51surge in clinical treatments. The
1:53:53medicalization transformed into into a
1:53:55cultural crisis by the 2000s as
1:53:58sedentary indoor lifestyles starved us
1:54:01of natural daytime sunlight. Sunlight
1:54:03exposure is vital because its
1:54:05high-intensity brightness resets the
1:54:07brain's master internal clock and
1:54:09suppresses daytime melatonin, which
1:54:11establishes a definitive biological
1:54:13countdown for deep sleep at night.
1:54:16Deprived of this anchoring cue and
1:54:19bombarded by a 24/7 hustle culture and
1:54:21smartphones pumping blue light into our
1:54:24bedrooms, society succumbed to a
1:54:26devastating double-edged sword. too
1:54:28little sun by day to synchronize the
1:54:29brain and too much artificial light by
1:54:31night to allow it to rest. The modern
1:54:34circadian mismatch culminated in an
1:54:36acute spike during the 2020 pandemic
1:54:38lockdowns, solidifying an era where our
1:54:42indoor environments are fundamentally at
1:54:43war with our evolutionary sleep biology.
1:54:46>> I love that. Who wrote that? Is that AI?
1:54:50>> It was AI that wrote that.
1:54:51>> Yeah. Now, that's the fascinating part
1:54:53of this. AI doesn't care whether or not
1:54:56my colleagues think I'm crazy. AI is not
1:54:59affected by what the endocrine society
1:55:02says about D. AI is just giving us the
1:55:06raw data. Okay. Then if you put in there
1:55:09something like what does Dr. Gmanac
1:55:11think about whether or not um sun
1:55:14exposure is the whole story for sleep?
1:55:16you'll start to see my stuff leaking
1:55:18through there saying, "Yes, it's true
1:55:20that the pineal gland makes melatonin
1:55:23and that that's part of how we get to
1:55:26the 1000 p.m. to 6:00 a.m., but it's
1:55:28also true that vitamin D has receptors
1:55:30in the brain stem. That means that we
1:55:34are at the edge of about
1:55:37a big change where some of these ideas
1:55:40that we talked about today that are very
1:55:41deep and very wide are going to be there
1:55:45available in a beautifully written way
1:55:47by AI. And I think in this particular
1:55:50case we've
1:55:52jumped around medicine and its craziness
1:55:56and its conservative feeling.
1:55:58It's been taken over by an
1:56:03an electronic thing that's not affected
1:56:05by our cultural ideals of who's smart
1:56:08and who's not.
1:56:09>> What is the central idea that you
1:56:11believe that most of the mainstream
1:56:12industry don't believe? I will I will do
1:56:14as you say and I will ask the AI. Most
1:56:17of the sleep disorders including sleep
1:56:19apnea, narcolepsy, all the ones that the
1:56:21neurologists have described are really
1:56:23related at basis by D and multiple
1:56:28things that are made by the microbiome
1:56:29that the microbiome and the D deficiency
1:56:31are very much linked and that there are
1:56:34hundreds of things that are playing a
1:56:35role in our sleep switches that are
1:56:37supplied by the microbiome.
1:56:40So, I'll I'll summarize that as are many
1:56:42of the sleep disorders
1:56:45caused by the microbiome.
1:56:50I'm using Gemini Pro, which is the most
1:56:53advanced model. I always use it for
1:56:55factecking and stuff. So, it says you
1:56:58are completely wrong. I'm joking. Didn't
1:56:59say that.
1:57:02[laughter]
1:57:04It says yes, the connection is massive.
1:57:07While we can't say the microbiome is the
1:57:09sole cause of every sleep disorder,
1:57:11scientists now know that a damaged gut
1:57:13is a major hidden driver of poor sleep
1:57:17because both the melatonin pipeline
1:57:19starts in the gut. Manufacturing the
1:57:21calm down chemical is in the gut and the
1:57:25cortisol alarm system is linked to the
1:57:27gut. The trickiest part of the
1:57:29microbiome sleep connection is that it
1:57:32is a birectional loop. A bad microbiome
1:57:35causes poor sleep. Poor sleep alters the
1:57:37microbiome. So, while anatomical issues
1:57:41like a narrow airway causes sleep
1:57:42apnnea, or light mismatch, like the lack
1:57:44of near infrared light, play huge roles,
1:57:47fixing chronic insomnia often requires
1:57:49healing the gut just as much as fixing
1:57:51your bedtime routine.
1:57:52>> The lack of near infrared light, that's
1:57:56amazing. Medicine will [clears throat]
1:57:58not be talking about that anytime soon.
1:58:00It's too wacky.
1:58:02It's too woo woo. And yet that means
1:58:07those ideas are available to us.
1:58:10>> We have a closing tradition on this
1:58:12podcast where the last guest leaves a
1:58:13question for the next guest not knowing
1:58:14who they're leaving it for. And the
1:58:15question left for you is more Yeah, I
1:58:17guess it is a question. It says,
1:58:22"Describe the best day of your life."
1:58:32I I'm gonna have to stick with what pops
1:58:34into my mind first, which is relatively
1:58:37recently.
1:58:39Uh we were in
1:58:42Sevilla, I think, and it was very hot
1:58:46and my husband and I have been traveling
1:58:48for three or four weeks together, which
1:58:50is the longest time we've spent together
1:58:51in a long time. And we were sitting
1:58:53playing canasta
1:58:55outside underneath an umbrella that had
1:58:58little misters. And we were just sitting
1:59:02there playing canasta together. And it's
1:59:06not about it was not about
1:59:07accomplishment. It was about having this
1:59:11marvelous circumstance where we're just
1:59:15hanging out together and having a very
1:59:18pleasant time together. That was my my
1:59:22best day recent memory.
1:59:26[snorts]
1:59:26>> Dr. Stasha, where should people go to
1:59:28learn more from you?
1:59:30>> Dr. Gmanac, no period after DR.com
1:59:34and I have a YouTube channel where I
1:59:36have lots of I have a whole series of 50
1:59:39things called sleep chats where I talk
1:59:42about if I have carpal tunnel syndrome,
1:59:45will right sleep program help me? I have
1:59:47this well right and why
1:59:50>> I'll link all of that for you below so
1:59:52everybody can go to those resources.
1:59:53They'll be in linked in the description
1:59:55below of this episode.
1:59:57>> Thank you so much.
1:59:59>> Thank you.
1:59:59>> Wonderful to talk about
2:00:01YouTube have this new crazy algorithm
2:00:03where they know exactly what video you
2:00:05would like to watch next based on AI and
2:00:08all of your viewing behavior. And the
2:00:09algorithm says that this video is the
2:00:13perfect video for you. It's different
2:00:14for everybody looking right now. Check
2:00:16this video out. I bet you, you might
2:00:18love it.

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