Virat Kohli's Legacy | Jarrod, Rob and Deepak DEBATE | #CommBox — Transcript

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1. 0:00What is the legacy of Virat Kohli?
2. 0:05>> Amazing.
3. 0:05>> And that's all we have time for today.
4. 0:07So,
5. 0:07>> [laughter]
6. 0:09>> For [snorts] me it has to be test
7. 0:10cricket.
8. 0:11Uh no doubt he is one of the greatest
9. 0:14white ball player players to ever play
10. 0:16the game. No doubt about it.
11. 0:18>> But how does the drop the drop at the
12. 0:20end affect that though?
13. 0:22>> I don't think so because
14. 0:22>> What do you mean you say I don't think
15. 0:24so? It's one of the We've never had a
16. 0:25player as good as him have as big a drop
17. 0:27as he's had for as long as he's had.
18. 0:28>> ball cricket it doesn't happen like
19. 0:29that.
20. 0:30>> I know, but you said test cricket.
21. 0:32>> Test cricket? I'm not talking about the
22. 0:33player.
23. 0:34It's about the captaincy, about what he
24. 0:36did to the team.
25. 0:37>> Okay, I can agree with
26. 0:38>> How he actually made cricket test
27. 0:41cricket sexy in India.
28. 0:43Because
29. 0:43>> He made test cricket sexy.
30. 0:45>> Sehwag did.
31. 0:47>> [crying and laughter]
32. 0:47>> Sehwag did, but then it tapered off
33. 0:49because it was like from 2011 to 2015
34. 0:54there was a boring era in between where
35. 0:56India was kind of getting smashed all
36. 0:58over the place and we were giving
37. 1:01rank turners at home. Like the the whole
38. 1:03era was little messed up in that period.
39. 1:05>> So you think in 25 years time people are
40. 1:08going to be talking about Virat Kohli
41. 1:09the test player?
42. 1:10>> Virat Kohli the test captain I would
43. 1:11say.
44. 1:12>> Test captain.
45. 1:13>> Yes.
46. 1:14>> Where does he rank then?
47. 1:16>> As a test captain?
48. 1:17>> So Sachin
49. 1:19Let's put five up in there for now,
50. 1:21right? Um you know, we might have others
51. 1:23in there as well.
52. 1:25How high up the list is he going to be
53. 1:26in 25 years time?
54. 1:29Are they going to talk about him more
55. 1:30than Bumrah?
56. 1:31>> Definitely.
57. 1:31>> I agree.
58. 1:32>> I agree.
59. 1:34>> Maybe they shouldn't, but they will.
60. 1:35>> They will and I'm not sure they should.
61. 1:37>> That's one in today's era.
62. 1:39>> Uh I think uh
63. 1:40in test cricket legacy-wise
64. 1:44it'll be it'll be very hard pill to
65. 1:45swallow somebody even for me. He might
66. 1:49have a bigger legacy than even Sachin
67. 1:50Tendulkar.
68. 1:52>> No.
69. 1:52>> And that's all we have time for today.
70. 1:54Thank you.
71. 1:55>> [laughter]
72. 1:55>> And because I'm I'm I'm because reason
73. 1:57is of the of because of the social media
74. 2:00era. Because it's it's
75. 2:01>> I think he's got a point.
76. 2:02>> Yeah, because Sachin was always a very
77. 2:05private person and he was able to hit
78. 2:07the stratosphere of the celebration
79. 2:09celebrity status pretty early. Then
80. 2:12somehow with the time social media
81. 2:14boomed
82. 2:15he had his stuff by then so he didn't
83. 2:18care much. So do we see him being
84. 2:21relevant today?
85. 2:21>> Do you think he was more famous at his
86. 2:23peak than Sachin?
87. 2:25>> Virat?
88. 2:25>> Yeah.
89. 2:26>> Because of the social media yes. Because
90. 2:27he actually
91. 2:29took cricket globally. Because if
92. 2:31Djokovic says that I know cricket just
93. 2:33because of Virat and and even the
94. 2:35Olympics
95. 2:37>> the Olympics is one of the biggest
96. 2:38things. I think his legacy might end up
97. 2:39being the Olympics. I know that sounds
98. 2:41weird cuz he'll never play in the
99. 2:42Olympics. But the Olympics kept looking
100. 2:45at Virat Kohli's Instagram feed and
101. 2:47being like how can we not have this guy
102. 2:48here? It doesn't make any sense.
103. 2:50>> Yes.
104. 2:51>> So I think his impact is his fame more
105. 2:53than his cricket.
106. 2:54>> Exactly. That's what it is. His
107. 2:55captaincy, his fame, theatrics, like
108. 2:57what he actually did to make cricket
109. 3:00sexy is is what is going to be his
110. 3:03legacy. I'm not even talking about like
111. 3:05I clearly remember there was this
112. 3:07article by
113. 3:09uh Mr. Guha in 2018 where he said he's
114. 3:12one one of the most well-articulated and
115. 3:15the most intelligent Indian cricketer he
116. 3:17has ever come across
117. 3:20uh outside of Anil Kumble.
118. 3:22That's what he said. Like he just knows
119. 3:23how to get his things done.
120. 3:25>> Yeah.
121. 3:25>> So that's that's what he is like in last
122. 3:2810 years in a very subtle manner he has
123. 3:30built a brand around himself
124. 3:32in every aspect of the game. So his
125. 3:35cricket is not even the relevant point
126. 3:39here I would say.
127. 3:40>> That's kind of what I think. I think
128. 3:41that in 25 years time
129. 3:43one-day cricket let's say one-day
130. 3:44cricket fades cuz we all I think all
131. 3:47three of us probably think it will.
132. 3:48>> 27 is the last I'm very sure on that.
133. 3:50>> One way or another in in 25 years I
134. 3:52don't it's going to be it's going to be
135. 3:54the third format by a distance if it
136. 3:56still exists, right?
137. 3:58>> That's his best format.
138. 4:00>> Yeah. He is, you know, you
139. 4:03however you want to look at it, I think
140. 4:04we had him in the top four ODI batters
141. 4:06of all time, but you could easily make
142. 4:08the claim for him to be number one in
143. 4:09that. You cannot make a claim for him to
144. 4:11be the number one test player. You
145. 4:12cannot make it a claim for him to be the
146. 4:13number one T20 player. International
147. 4:15T20s is a little bit different, right?
148. 4:17But you cannot for T20, and people are
149. 4:19going to look But in 25 years time, IPLs
150. 4:21are going to be more important, right?
151. 4:23And he hasn't dominated every single
152. 4:25year of the of the IPL, right? Like, you
153. 4:27know, there are other players who who've
154. 4:28done better than him during his career.
155. 4:30So, ultimately, I almost feel like his
156. 4:33legacy is fame rather than anything
157. 4:36else. So, I don't know if is George Best
158. 4:39an example of someone who's like more
159. 4:41famous than perhaps the overall career
160. 4:44arc that he had.
161. 4:45Do you know what I mean?
162. 4:47>> Yeah.
163. 4:47>> And they're similar kind of people,
164. 4:49obviously.
165. 4:50>> If if
166. 4:51I'm thinking of his legacy, I'm thinking
167. 4:52differently from
168. 4:54Joe Public who may not be obsessed with
169. 4:56cricket like I am.
170. 4:57>> Obviously.
171. 4:57>> So, but I think what Kohli has done for
172. 5:00the game, chasing and fielding would be
173. 5:02the two things that stand out to me. He
174. 5:04chasing is
175. 5:05chasing ludicrously good, but the
176. 5:07fitness and the the athleticism and the
177. 5:10actual fielding that he does has changed
178. 5:13Indian cricket's fielding, right?
179. 5:15Because back in the day when when, you
180. 5:17know, Ganguly, Dravid, Tendulkar
181. 5:20Tendulkar very good fielder, Dravid good
182. 5:22catcher and all that, but they never
183. 5:23bothered running after the ball in the
184. 5:25field. You never saw them doing that.
185. 5:26And if if they were the other team was
186. 5:29racking up a score, it was hands in
187. 5:31pockets and, you know, no one was
188. 5:33prowling the outfield, were they? Kohli
189. 5:34doesn't stand for that, right? You're
190. 5:36fielding properly, all of you. And he
191. 5:38sets the example with that, and he's
192. 5:39still doing it now.
193. 5:42You know, he did a roly-poly stop when
194. 5:43an an a absolute rocket
195. 5:45>> You know,
196. 5:46>> to the keeper the other day.
197. 5:47>> I would take it a step further that he's
198. 5:50probably changed gym culture in India.
199. 5:52>> Yes.
200. 5:53>> Right. He's probably changed fashion in
201. 5:54India, facial hair in India. Like, you
202. 5:57know, our man Chandan over here with his
203. 6:00incredible jawline. He's got that Virat
204. 6:02Kohli beard on. When when I was a kid,
205. 6:05if you if you're an Indian, you either
206. 6:06had a really long, bushy beard, or you
207. 6:08had a mustache, right?
208. 6:09>> Yes.
209. 6:09>> And and he's like that chiseled
210. 6:11>> Yeah.
211. 6:12>> face and everything.
212. 6:13>> You know, and maybe that's why I'm so
213. 6:14chiseled.
214. 6:14>> Yeah.
215. 6:15>> One more thing that comes to mind is
216. 6:17Harsha Bhogle in 2011 said a very about
217. 6:192011 series said a very interesting
218. 6:21thing. Like, difference between MS Dhoni
219. 6:23and Virat Kohli. He said like
220. 6:25MS had a clear plan. Like, this is what
221. 6:28Zaheer Khan is going to do for me.
222. 6:29>> Yeah.
223. 6:30>> Once Zaheer was injured on that first
224. 6:32morning of Lords, he was done.
225. 6:34He's given up. Like, he knew that it's
226. 6:364-0 now.
227. 6:37>> Yeah.
228. 6:38>> Virat would not have changed the result
229. 6:40of the series, but through the
230. 6:42the kind of personality he is, he would
231. 6:45at least won one test match in that
232. 6:46series.
233. 6:47>> Well, even if he didn't win a test
234. 6:48match, what he would have done is just
235. 6:49kept going until it worked,
236. 6:51[clears throat] right? There's a There's
237. 6:52a desperation in him. And I think that
238. 6:54Dhoni will be remembered as a cricketer.
239. 6:56>> Yeah.
240. 6:57>> Right? And I think that Kohli remembered
241. 6:58as a force of nature. And it's not that
242. 7:00Dhoni's not a force of nature, right?
243. 7:02>> He is.
244. 7:02>> Kohli probably wants fame more than
245. 7:05Dhoni does. I think that's fair. I think
246. 7:07he
247. 7:08I think Dhoni is the most pragmatic
248. 7:11cricketer I've ever covered in my life.
249. 7:13Owen Morgan's not far behind, but Dhoni
250. 7:14is even well ahead of him.
251. 7:17And I think that Dhoni comes into every
252. 7:19game going, "Well, we'll we'll probably
253. 7:20win about 65% of these games, right? Or
254. 7:2280% if it's, you know, a format that
255. 7:24we're better at." And I think Virat
256. 7:25Kohli thinks every single moment has to
257. 7:27be won.
258. 7:28>> Yes.
259. 7:28>> Right? And then on top of that is
260. 7:31he thinks the camera is on him at all
261. 7:33times, and he plays up to the camera at
262. 7:34all times, and he's right on both
263. 7:36occasions.
264. 7:36>> There's a fair bit of Cristiano Ronaldo
265. 7:39>> Yes.
266. 7:40>> Definitely.
267. 7:40>> It's a real similarity between
268. 7:42>> did he not sign with Nike because of
269. 7:45Ronaldo?
270. 7:45>> Yeah, he's a big fan of Ronaldo.
271. 7:46>> Yeah, big fan of him. So what Ronaldo
272. 7:49did is he elongated his career by being
273. 7:52ridiculously fit. And he made himself a
274. 7:54better footballer by being able to run
275. 7:57faster, jump higher, be stronger in the
276. 7:58tackle and all that by building up his
277. 7:59body shape and and increasing his
278. 8:01everything
279. 8:03biomechanically is strategically thought
280. 8:06out to have the best career. Also, to be
281. 8:09on the most posters and to be on most
282. 8:11adverts and to do all that, you know,
283. 8:13when he does a social media post he gets
284. 8:15X million and all that sort of thing,
285. 8:16right? Kohli's very well managed in that
286. 8:18regard, too. And I think he loves it.
287. 8:21But the
288. 8:22What what those guys have shown is that
289. 8:25if you work really really really hard
290. 8:28and you're good, you can stay at the top
291. 8:30for a very long time if you're if you're
292. 8:32willing to put the work in. Whereas
293. 8:34somebody like say Wag was probably not
294. 8:36going to do that. Probably not going to
295. 8:38spend
296. 8:39>> He wasn't going to make sacrifices, was
297. 8:41he?
298. 8:41>> No, whereas
299. 8:42Chris Gayle gym dove and bench pressed
300. 8:45enough times and and turned his body
301. 8:47into something that was allowed him to
302. 8:49dominate the game over a long period of
303. 8:51time.
304. 8:51>> Chris Gayle had a period where he he
305. 8:53eased off and then realized and then
306. 8:55came back because he's like, "Oh, no, I
307. 8:56need to do that work."
308. 8:58>> He also had a a bit of a heart issue at
309. 8:59one point, but anyway.
310. 9:01Um
311. 9:02so, my my favorite players, my heroes
312. 9:04are the ones that don't bother with all
313. 9:06that. You know,
314. 9:07are the ones that just go, "I happen to
315. 9:09be amazing and if if we've got a big
316. 9:11game I'll turn up and if not I'll
317. 9:12probably won't bother."
318. 9:13>> Yeah.
319. 9:14>> Uh whereas to to be a role model and
320. 9:18somebody that kids can look up to, I
321. 9:20think Sachin did it in one way in that
322. 9:23he seemed to be no scandals, no
323. 9:25nonsense. He didn't go that way at all,
324. 9:27did he? No spiky character. He just
325. 9:29seemed like a lovely man who was
326. 9:31incredibly good at cricket and devoted
327. 9:33his life to the game, right? And got mad
328. 9:35respect from everybody for that and
329. 9:36continues to do so to this day, right?
330. 9:38Tendulkar.
331. 9:39Um Kohli's arc
332. 9:41slightly more
333. 9:44tabloid entertaining. The way The way
334. 9:46he's gone about his career, he's not
335. 9:48afraid to say what he thinks. He's not
336. 9:50afraid to have an argument with someone
337. 9:51if he if he thinks he's right and
338. 9:52they're wrong, and he doesn't mind if
339. 9:53it's public. Like he's not that
340. 9:54bothered.
341. 9:55Um [snorts]
342. 9:56but he is he has got
343. 9:59the thing you must respect is he has got
344. 10:01every ounce out of his ability by trying
345. 10:04really really hard. That is something
346. 10:06that kids can look up to for sure.
347. 10:07>> And and one more thing that he will add
348. 10:10to the overall celebrity culture in
349. 10:11India.
350. 10:12Celebrities in India are not good
351. 10:14entrepreneurs. Very few stories. Like
352. 10:16Shah Rukh Khan from Bollywood is one guy
353. 10:18who's maxed out out really well. Well,
354. 10:20because
355. 10:21as an entrepreneur, you have especially
356. 10:23in a country like India, you have to
357. 10:25literally forget yourself. You have to
358. 10:26be so well immersed in it that it's just
359. 10:29practically not possible because as a
360. 10:31celebrity, you have to have an aura
361. 10:33about himself. You have to be very much
362. 10:35invested in yourself, which doesn't go
363. 10:37well with the entrepreneurial culture in
364. 10:39India. But Shah Rukh has done it, and
365. 10:41I'm very sure Kohli would also do that.
366. 10:43So, his arc would even extend beyond his
367. 10:46cricketing career because I'm very sure
368. 10:48he's going to have a very strong
369. 10:50entrepreneurial career also because the
370. 10:51kind of ethics he has
371. 10:53he gives you those vibes of a very
372. 10:54serious entrepreneur who can actually
373. 10:56transform his entire thing into his
374. 10:59beautiful or elongated into
375. 11:01entrepreneurial journey also. So, he
376. 11:03would extend his brand further there by
377. 11:06maybe doing what some somebody in the US
378. 11:09these athletes have done.
379. 11:10>> Yeah. I think I think the fascinating
380. 11:12thing is that I'm not sure we've ever
381. 11:15had a cricketer who's been more famous
382. 11:16ever than Virat Kohli.
383. 11:18>> No doubt about it.
384. 11:19>> But what does the
385. 11:21next generation look back on? And so So,
386. 11:24we've done two of these videos now.
387. 11:25There's a couple more to come, but the
388. 11:27reason I The reason I started with
389. 11:28Stokes and I started with with Kohli is
390. 11:32in 25 years time they're not
391. 11:33automatically all-time great
392. 11:36conversations
393. 11:38in in some ways, right?
394. 11:40You can make an argument for both of
395. 11:41them in in different ways, but they're
396. 11:42not It's not like Sachin where there's
397. 11:44no argument.
398. 11:45>> Yeah.
399. 11:46>> That's just it. Sachin and Warne, you
400. 11:48know, McGrath, those sorts of guys, you
401. 11:50know,
402. 11:51it's just that's just airtight. It's not
403. 11:54airtight, and I wonder like And this is
404. 11:56why I I brought up someone like George
405. 11:57Best. I'm trying to think of better
406. 11:58people, but
407. 12:00you know, there's
408. 12:00>> See, George Best and Kohli can't be
409. 12:02compared because Best spent all his time
410. 12:04off the field galling around.
411. 12:06>> No, no, I get that, but what I mean is
412. 12:09I don't think now most people would
413. 12:10think of George Best as the best
414. 12:12footballer of that era or of other eras
415. 12:15that he played in. And yet, there are
416. 12:18players who are of a similar level to
417. 12:19George Best, maybe even slightly better
418. 12:21than him, who don't get any airtime.
419. 12:23Some people stick, and some people
420. 12:24don't, right? So So, Herbert Sutcliffe
421. 12:26is the best example of this in maybe in
422. 12:28cricket, right?
423. 12:29>> Okay.
424. 12:29>> Poor guy happens to be probably maybe
425. 12:32the second best batter that had ever
426. 12:33existed, but at the other end he's got
427. 12:34Jack Hobbs, right? At first drop, he's
428. 12:37got Wally Hammond, and the opposition's
429. 12:39got Don Bradman.
430. 12:40>> Yeah. He's sorry. He's Scotty Pippen,
431. 12:42isn't he?
432. 12:42>> Yeah, right?
433. 12:43>> Yeah.
434. 12:44>> And so, you don't end up Karl Malone
435. 12:46might be the best one of this, right?
436. 12:47I've like If Karl Malone played in any
437. 12:48other era, he probably wins four
438. 12:49championships, and everyone talks about
439. 12:51>> the Mailman.
440. 12:52>> Yeah, he's got a good nickname.
441. 12:53So, I think these things happen in
442. 12:55sport, and sometimes I think that Virat
443. 12:57Kohli has absolutely defined the last 10
444. 13:01years, and it's going to be uncles and
445. 13:03aunties telling people that for the next
446. 13:0430, 40 years. As kids go, "What are you
447. 13:06talking about? Like, Sachin came before
448. 13:08him. Vybhav came after him. Jaiswal came
449. 13:10after him. Gill came after him. Bumrah
450. 13:11was playing at the same time. Bumrah
451. 13:13Dhoni was there at the same time. And
452. 13:15we're still all going to be going, "No,
453. 13:16no, guys, you don't understand. Kohli
454. 13:18was the dude."
455. 13:19>> Yes.
456. 13:20>> And I think that's the fascinating thing
457. 13:22about all of this, right? And we haven't
458. 13:24even We I just mentioned Indian players
459. 13:26there. Steve Smith's been around,
460. 13:27Williamson's been around. Like, it's a
461. 13:29fascinating time for international
462. 13:31cricket. That's where I find it that
463. 13:33we're going to have to spend the next 40
464. 13:34years explaining why we're still going
465. 13:37on about this guy.
466. 13:38>> Yes, exactly. And I think he will have a
467. 13:41significant legacy post-cricket, also.
468. 13:43>> Yeah.
469. 13:43>> I mean, the kind of personality he is.
470. 13:45He can do what he wants.
471. 13:45>> But he's he's also fun.
472. 13:46>> be a podcaster, we have spots available
473. 13:49at the moment.
474. 13:50>> He'll be really funny.
475. 13:52He's got I I don't like the word. I
476. 13:54think he's used too much, so I will use
477. 13:56it. It's
478. 13:57aura. It's what he's
479. 13:58he's what he's got, right? He's he's a
480. 14:00he's a force of nature,
481. 14:02and he will be spoken about a lot more
482. 14:06than us in the future.
483. 14:07>> Oh,
484. 14:08one last thing.
485. 14:09His Indian legacy is going to be fame,
486. 14:12celebrity, entrepreneurial, is what you
487. 14:14said. Yeah?
488. 14:15>> Yes.
489. 14:17>> So, will Sachin will still be above him?
490. 14:20>> As a cricketer?
491. 14:21>> As a memory. People are going to talk
492. 14:23about Sachin more than Virat in 40
493. 14:25years' time.
494. 14:26>> I don't think so, because of the
495. 14:27generation I said.
496. 14:28>> That's fascinating.
497. 14:29>> Social media.
498. 14:29>> World cricket.
499. 14:31>> Mhm.
500. 14:31>> Yes.
501. 14:31>> Where do you think Where do you think
502. 14:33that works?
503. 14:35>> Yeah, I think he'll be some kind of
504. 14:36LeBron-type
505. 14:38billionaire, probably.
506. 14:40>> Yeah, no, I get that, but do you think
507. 14:41>> cricket, I think Sachin will be more
508. 14:43fondly remembered.
509. 14:44>> Yeah, and like I don't think he gets
510. 14:46into the Warn
511. 14:47>> He's not there.
512. 14:48>> Yeah, like Sachin
513. 14:50or Sobers' level, does he?
514. 14:52>> Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying he
515. 14:53shouldn't be, cuz it's maybe the first
516. 14:55all-format guy, and you know, there's no
517. 14:59>> And that's what I mean.
518. 15:00>> only in in that conversation, there can
519. 15:01only be, by definition, a few people.
520. 15:04He's not in that few, I don't think.
521. 15:07Good at cricket, though.
522. 15:08>> Is he?
523. 15:08>> Yeah. Cool.
524. 15:10>> [snorts]
525. 15:13>> Comb Box,
526. 15:14the game [music] lives on.