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Vijay Mallya Podcast: Rise & Downfall Of Kingfisher Airlines, Loans & RCB | FO364 Raj Shamani — Transcript

by Raj Shamani · 32,834 words · 5,424 segments · language en · Watch on YouTube

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0:00Mr. Malia is out of the
0:02country. Sicker Baron Vijay Malia who
0:05find himself in a raging 9,000 cr loan
0:09default scam. Welcome on figuring out
0:11sir. Why are you doing this after 9? In
0:14India public opinion is very quickly
0:16formed and influenced by the media
0:22pasa loot. Hi, I'm Vijay
0:25Malian. So it's not just huge, it is and
0:29nothing else comes close. King Fisher is
0:31a class apart. VJ Mallay is
0:36you were the biggest airline in the
0:39country. Welcome aboard King Fisher
0:40Airlines India's biggest airline going
0:43to be there amongst the best airlines in
0:44the world. What went wrong? So I went to
0:47Shri Pranabokuji then finance minister
0:50of India. I have to downsize this aine.
0:52I was told not to downsize King Fisher
0:56at that time. You continue, banks will
0:58support you. That is how it all started.
1:01Kingfisher Airlines has been forced to
1:03suspend all of its flights.
1:06Kingfisher Airlines has been struggling.
1:08At the time when you asked loan, the
1:10company was not doing that great. Please
1:12never forget I gave my personal
1:14guarantee. So all this narrative of
1:19chore people give you this kind of loan
1:21against collateral. They took shares of
1:23King Visha Airlines at the double
1:27price. There's again a statement that
1:29your international employees were
1:30getting paid. Indian employees were not.
1:32The company in India had no money. It
1:34was UB's money of 260 crores. With the
1:37bank under the control of the government
1:39of Canada court said no. Multiple
1:42international courts, Switzerland
1:43authorities, one of the courts from UK,
1:45they also found you guilty for
1:47misrepresentation of funds.
1:50Do you ever feel sorry that you couldn't
1:52do anything? I apologize publicly to
1:55everyone for the failure of King
1:57Airlines.
2:04Here's what pissed people off that in
2:06your private life you were enjoying. You
2:08had a grand birthday party, your 60th
2:10birthday party. Do you think you
2:11shouldn't have done that party? Why?
2:13Somebody mentioned that you took out €35
2:17million and invested in buying
2:20properties in France. Rubbish. What
2:23happened between 2012 and 2015? I made
2:26four settlement offers to the banks
2:27which they refused to accept. 2015 CBI
2:30started investigating you. They found
2:32you ciphering the money.
2:35Third March 2016 case needs to be heard
2:39or needs to be represented in front of
2:40Supreme Court. Second March you left the
2:42bank.
2:44On 15th April, your suspension came for
2:47your passport and 24th April was the
2:50revocation. Why didn't you reply? I'd
2:52like to show you something. Here is
2:58what is the biggest challenge of doing
3:00business in India? Government. It's in
3:03the Indian DNA. But how did you manage
3:05that before? Would there ever be
3:08exchange under the table as well? I'm
3:10not going to confirm or deny that
3:11because I leave it to your imagination.
3:13How do you make money now? Do you feel
3:15restricted now? What's your biggest fear
3:17now? Are you prepared for the
3:20worst? Have you ever imagined yourself
3:22actually going to
3:24jail? Would you be willing to return to
3:26country if you're assured fair? If I am
3:29assured, absolutely. I will think about
3:31it seriously. But
3:34[Applause]
3:38this episode is not about glorifying a
3:40fugitive nor it is about justifying any
3:43wrongs. It's about asking the hard
3:46questions to the man at the center of
3:49one of the India's most controversial
3:51financial stories. After 9 years of
3:54complete media silence, Vijay Malia
3:56chose our podcast figuring out to speak
3:59publicly for the first time. I didn't do
4:02this podcast to celebrate him. I did it
4:05because I was curious. I read his
4:07tweets. I heard the headlines, but I
4:09never heard the full side of the story
4:12because the tweets that he makes are
4:14different than what the headlines talk
4:16about him. There's a mismatch. As a
4:19podcaster, my job is to ask every
4:22uncomfortable question, and I did. Vijay
4:25Malia claims he never committed fraud.
4:27He says he wanted to pay back the loans,
4:30that his properties were seized and
4:32sold, and that he's being framed. He
4:35also says he's ready to face the
4:37consequences, whatever they may be, if
4:39he's given the fair chance of trial.
4:41I've tried to cover his childhood,
4:43business building, the man behind the
4:45image, the rise, the fall, the good, the
4:48bad, and the ugly, the life before, and
4:50the life now. I'm not here to decide
4:53who's right or wrong. I trust the Indian
4:55judicial system to do that. This
4:57conversation is for those who want to
5:00listen, think and question. It's not
5:02about taking sides. It's about
5:04understanding all sides. Watch this
5:07episode with utmost sincerity and let me
5:10know in the comments what do you
5:17think. Welcome on figuring out sir.
5:21Thank you
5:21for doing this.
5:25And my
5:27objective of this whole podcast is going
5:30to be that I want to know your side of
5:33story. There are so many things that we
5:36have heard. There are so many things
5:38which are probably right or wrong. I
5:41don't know what's going on. And I think
5:43apart from me, there are millions of
5:45Indians who want to know the same thing.
5:47You're highly talked about. I also feel
5:50that there are so many things which
5:52people have
5:54just heard and started building their
5:57own narrative about you. So I wanted to
6:01out
6:01of a in inquisitiveness, curiosity and b
6:06out of a
6:08responsibility I wanted to take this
6:10forward. So thank you so much for doing
6:12this and thank you for giving us an
6:14opportunity. And the best thing which I
6:16really liked about this is when you came
6:18here and you said I'm ready to answer
6:22everything which you want to talk
6:24about. I don't think many people give
6:26that opportunity. So thank you for doing
6:28this. But the first question
6:31is why are you doing this after 9 years?
6:35There are thousands of people who must
6:37have reached out to you over the years.
6:39Why all of a sudden the need after 9
6:41years that okay I'll say yes and yes to
6:44us. Why?
6:46Very good question. Nice place to start.
6:51For the last nine years, I have been the
6:54subject of a
6:56vicious, relentless trial by
7:00media in India who as you have rightly
7:04pointed out have created so many
7:09narratives, negative narratives about me
7:12that I have become a lightning rod of
7:15public
7:16anger, being abused, called names,
7:21And that was very
7:23unfortunate both professionally and
7:27personally. So rather than try and take
7:30on this huge Indian media machine, I
7:35just prefer to keep quiet.
7:38Now, times have
7:41changed and I can't help but
7:44recalling that when President Trump was
7:48inaugurated in the first press briefing
7:52by the White House press secretary, she
7:54said that a few seats were now going to
7:58be reserved for the very first time for
8:01people who represented new media or
8:05social media.
8:08I didn't even know that a podcast
8:11existed, let alone understanding what a
8:14podcast really
8:15meant
8:17until you told me and explained it to me
8:21in a manner that I got quite excited
8:24about because here is my
8:26opportunity to not only answer your
8:29questions but to say
8:32things that I truly feel would never
8:36ever have been truthfully reported by
8:40the legacy media particularly in
8:44India. That's why I'm here. Why do you
8:47think nobody cared about hearing you
8:49then?
8:51In
8:54India, it's
8:56strange, but public opinion is very
8:59quickly formed and
9:01influenced by the media, more
9:04importantly by sensationalism.
9:08I still remember the anchor of one media
9:12channel in
9:142016 shouting and screaming on the
9:17television saying, "VJ Malia, I want to
9:19see you in jail clothes. I want to see
9:23you eat jail food." With an image of me
9:28in um in jail
9:31attire. What for? I always wondered what
9:35for.
9:46Subsequently, nobody bothered to step
9:49back and think, but it was very easy to
9:53fling false
9:55accusations day after
9:58day and get away with it. One of the
10:01reasons I agreed to sit with you today
10:05is also because it is only very recently
10:09that finally the government of
10:12India ministry of finance has published
10:15a report their annual report in which
10:17they have acknowledged 14,100 crores
10:21recovered from me. Of course, this was
10:24following the finance minister's
10:26statement in
10:28parliament
10:31and the legacy media can't argue with
10:34that
10:34anymore. They can't put any spin on it
10:37anymore.
10:40The debt recovery tribunal gave a
10:42judgment debt of
10:444,999 crores borrowed by kingfisher
10:47airlines not by Vijay
10:49Malia borrowed by kingfisher airlines of
10:52which Vijay Malia was one of the
10:55guarantors so what is the DRT judgment
10:58debt
11:004,999 crores plus
11:041,23 crores unapplied
11:07interest. Okay, which means notional
11:10interest that the banks had not even
11:12booked. Forget that the total of the
11:15unapplied interest and the principal was
11:186203 crores. Okay. And I was a
11:23guarantor. The government has recovered
11:2614,100 crores from me. right
11:31now if I had done
11:34chi if I
11:37had duped the
11:40banks
11:42where does this all add up till re very
11:47recently there was absolutely no
11:51official figure of
11:53recovery right so everybody the legacy
11:56media in particular wrote whatever they
11:59Ed
12:00right and I was in no position to
12:04contradict
12:06today after the government of India has
12:09acknowledged the recovery of 14,100
12:11crores I think it's my turn to ask them
12:14what they have to say about it because
12:16you say that a lot of things about you
12:19are false narrative let's go down to
12:22from your childhood we speak from the
12:24beginning and you tell me everything
12:26that people have been said people think
12:28it's wrong and I'll try to present the
12:31facts and the narratives which I have
12:33heard and which I have gathered through
12:35my research. All right. And if you're
12:37okay with counter somewhere, I'll
12:38counter you as well. No, please, please
12:40feel free to counter me. If there's
12:43something that you feel is debatable or
12:46you want to make a counterpoint, I'm
12:47ready for it. Perfect. because I feel
12:49that's my little responsibility out
12:51there to to hear the right side and the
12:54wrong side both and let then people
12:56think about it and let them make the
12:58right call. That's fair. Perfect.
13:01So before even I ask you about childhood
13:04do you do you regret anything?
13:08I regret one
13:10thing which is that after all my hard
13:15work, all the value that I created in so
13:19many multiple
13:21ways that effectively the government of
13:24India and of course the
13:27media made me a zero from a
13:33hero and that's a fact of life that I
13:36have had to stomach and live with. Now
13:40whether that was justified or not is
13:42something that I'm sure will be
13:45encompassed in your own
13:48questions. Zero from a
13:50hero. Let's talk about building of a
13:53hero first and we'll come down to zero
13:55again. So before the billionaire Vijay
13:59Malia, before the controversy, before
14:01all of this flamboyance and scandals and
14:04things that people talk about, who was
14:06Vijay Malia as a child? Where were you
14:09born? What did you do? How was your
14:11childhood? Tell me about it. Born in
14:14Kolkata, moved to a hometown
14:19Bangalore. Went back to Kolkata. did my
14:22schooling there, did my college
14:25education there in
14:27Kolkata and my upbringing under my
14:31father was a very
14:34normal I would say strict upbringing
14:37really. Yes. Tell me an incident strict
14:41childhood. Two things. When I was still
14:43in
14:44school, class nine at La Martineer in
14:48Kolkata, my marks were not very good in
14:51class. I was a
14:54mid-ranker only because I took a lot of
14:57interest in sport and extracurricular
15:01activities. I didn't I you know
15:04concentrate fully on studies and my mark
15:07sheets.
15:09And he told me and I think most people
15:12know it. He was exceptionally
15:14intelligent. Uh was a product of the
15:16Dune School. I think topped his class.
15:20So he expected me to also top my
15:23class.
15:25Uh nevertheless he said something to me
15:29which I think I remember till
15:32today. Two things made a profound
15:35impact.
15:37one, if you're not good
15:42enough, you are not going to step into
15:45my shoes.
15:48And the second thing he
15:50said, he said, "Do you
15:53realize that while I say step into my
15:56shoes, there may not be any shoes at all
16:00because the government and its then
16:02socialist
16:04policies may have taken everything away
16:07from us and the only thing I can leave
16:10to you is your education. So take it
16:12seriously." I think I repaid some amount
16:16of faith because
16:19um for my last three years in school 9
16:2110 11 I think I came within the top
16:24three in class and he was quite happy
16:27about that.
16:29So weren't you a little spoiled as child
16:32spoiled? Oh my god. I was anything but
16:34spoiled really. You had all the fancy
16:38toys. You had all the things that
16:39Absolutely no fancy toys at all. That's
16:42completely false
16:44narrative. I after I passed out of
16:49school and when I went to San Javier's
16:52college to study BCOM, my father was
16:55very clear, you go to college at 6:00 in
16:59the morning and when you finish at
17:0210:30, you go and work a full day at the
17:04office as a management trainee. I was
17:08put on a stipend of 400 rupees a month
17:11and that 400 rupees never increased
17:15right the
17:16way my time through college. So that's
17:19all I got 400 rupees a month and was
17:23working in those days fips and company
17:26limited old courthouse street in
17:30Kolkata every day after college. Aren't
17:33there stories that you used to go to
17:35college in a very fancy car and you
17:38removed the silencer just to show the
17:41the noise of your car, the loudness of
17:43your car and you were always a show off,
17:45weren't you? I was no showoff at all.
17:48And the fancy car that I have was a
17:51secondhand standard herald. So where are
17:54these stories coming from? I don't know.
17:57People's narratives, people's
17:58perceptions. That's why it's important
18:01to correct those
18:03perceptions. You know, talking about
18:06noise, even a fat fat in Delhi makes a
18:09hell of a lot of
18:10noise. You don't have to drive a fancy
18:13car to make a noise down the street.
18:17So, you are telling me that all these
18:19stories of you having a you having fancy
18:22toys, remote control cars, and then
18:25fancy cars with loud noises, all of this
18:28is false. Well, I may have tempered with
18:31the silencer of my car. Okay. Uh because
18:34I was always into kind of fast cars,
18:36loved motor racing and stuff like that,
18:38but you know, I mean, it still remained
18:40a standard held. But why did you do
18:43that? Like just to show off like the
18:44noise and everything. Look, if you can
18:47modify the silencer of a car like you
18:50can modify the the top end of a car's
18:53engine to make it go a little quicker. I
18:56mean that's some that's the basics of of
18:58motorsport. But how were you as a child
19:01like personalitywise? Were you
19:02confident? Were you a little arrogant?
19:05No. No. I look the this is all a
19:08question of
19:09perception.
19:11Uh arrogant is also your understanding
19:15of arrogance. My understanding of
19:17arrogance. But I'll tell you one thing.
19:20H
19:22I was always
19:24self-confident and whenever I was
19:28invited to give talks at various
19:30universities and educational
19:33establishments I always told the
19:36youngsters that when they start off life
19:39they must be
19:40self-confidence because it is only
19:44self-confidence that will bring out the
19:46best in you and I still believe that
19:49till today and because I started
19:53young I am passionate about youth
19:56empowerment but this would have not been
19:59the case always as a kid we all have
20:01like lot of insecurities it's not always
20:03confidence what was your biggest
20:05insecurity when you were growing up I
20:09don't yeah probably the biggest inse
20:12insecurity was when u the examination
20:15results with you and what my dad would
20:18have to say about
20:19But no beyond that uh you know my life
20:22is pretty plain and simple um great
20:25bunch of school friends, great bunch of
20:28college buddies
20:30um in
20:31Kolkata. uh not the glitzy lights of
20:34Bombay and yeah so it was pretty normal
20:38but you know nothing fancy but I had a
20:42very strict set of supervisors at work
20:45who were clearly instructed by my father
20:48to be tough with me to make sure you
20:51know I worked my butt off and I'm none
20:56the happier for it that's what made me
21:00but did you did you ever get to a
21:04position or in a thinking as a child
21:06that one day I'll be powerful, one day
21:09I'll be very rich? No, absolutely not. I
21:12mean, how could I be so presumptuous?
21:14Here I had a dad who was hands-on
21:18working 24/7
21:21uh
21:22young uh and and uh who told me that if
21:27I didn't measure up, I'd have no place
21:29in the business. So I couldn't be
21:32presumptive could I? But your father was
21:35a wealthy man. In those times there were
21:37only few wealthy people. So you would
21:40pres presume this right? Like I will
21:42have all this wealth inherited. I'll be
21:45maybe bigger than my father or maybe
21:47just have all of these things. I didn't
21:48have any such aspirations in those days.
21:51Uh and and you know wealth was something
21:53that was very relative. Um and and my
21:57father certainly was a very frugal
22:00spender. So uh irrespective of how much
22:03wealth he had, he certainly wasn't
22:06expensive.
22:08You said when you used to go to work,
22:10your father put strict supervisors. Mhm.
22:13Right. What would those strict
22:15supervisors made made you do? What?
22:17Well, first of all, make sure that I
22:20came to the office on time, straight
22:22after college. It wasn't as if I'd sort
22:25of roll up whenever I wanted to. Okay.
22:28The second I was given a clear set of
22:31tasks. Um I was a salesman. I had to go
22:34and visit the shops in the market. I had
22:37to visit
22:38distributors. Um I had to uh spend time
22:42with the accounts department to
22:43understand accounting, corporate
22:45accounting. Um yeah, and marketing, you
22:49know, sit with the ad agencies and stuff
22:51like that. So it was a comprehensive
22:54training program but with no forgiveness
22:58in any sense. I had to work a full day.
23:00I couldn't sort of get up and go uh or
23:04come when I
23:05liked which was fine. I mean um looking
23:09back it was a great grounding.
23:13What happened next? So you were in
23:14Xavier's you started going to work and
23:16then you went to states. Yeah my dad
23:18sent me off to the states to work for
23:21American H. Okay. American Herx as it
23:24was then known became then
23:27Aventus and now the pharmaceutical
23:30company the global companies called
23:31Sanopi. So yeah I was sent there uh
23:35worked there once again um as a
23:38management traininee. I then was brought
23:40to England to work in Jensen and
23:44Nicholson. I was a paint foreman in the
23:48paint factory. used to be mixing paint
23:50at
23:52night and yeah I mean slowly I
23:57understood what my father's methods were
24:00what were his method which is basically
24:02a
24:04strict training
24:06regimen and I did pretty well because I
24:10can tell you he he expressed he
24:13expressed
24:15um his his appreciation for my work. I
24:18got a a pretty good uh report card from
24:22America. He was he said he was proud of
24:24me. Um I did well here in England mixing
24:30paint and um when I went back to India
24:35um his health was becoming indifferent
24:40even though he at that time he was only
24:4257 years old. His health was becoming
24:45indifferent. he had a history of heart
24:48disease. So he sort of got me to work uh
24:54for him in the core
24:57business and
24:59um yeah then of course the story of
25:03Kingfisher the story of McDonald's
25:06number one backpiper and all these
25:08brands that subsequently became very
25:11wellnown began then. How was your
25:14relationship with your father? The
25:17relationship with my father was
25:19excellent. He was a man of few
25:23words. Uh but there's one thing he did
25:26which embarrassed me no end. That every
25:29time he saw me, he gave me a big kiss on
25:31my cheek. Whether it was at an airport
25:35or in the office or at home, he'd give
25:38me a hug and a big kiss on the
25:41cheek. I mean bless him for that. Was he
25:45did he ever doubt you that you will be
25:47able whether you will be able to
25:49continue and build his legacy or not? I
25:53think the biggest certificate I got was
25:55from my bosses in America and they gave
26:00me a pretty good certificate a pretty
26:02good report and that finally I think
26:05gave him the confidence to say ah my son
26:08is stepping up to my expectations.
26:11What was your first bold step in your
26:13father's company?
26:15Oh, King Fisher. I went to my father and
26:19I said, "I need 10 lakhs rupees to
26:21market Kingfisher beer." He said,
26:24"That's a princely sum of money. What
26:26are you going to do with it? How are you
26:27going to do it? Etc., etc." Because I
26:30saw in the archives of United Breweries
26:33this label of King Fusha Beer, which had
26:36been actually launched in
26:381857, okay? gathering dust and you know
26:42with a pretty archaic kingfisher bird on
26:46it sort of prehistoric
26:48version but I said to myself the the
26:51mere word brand
26:54kingfisher is very evocative in so many
26:57ways it could be made into a fun brand.
27:00Now my time in Kolkata going back to my
27:04training days when I spent time with
27:05them with the marketing department more
27:09importantly interacted with the people
27:11in the advertising agencies. my time in
27:15America where
27:17um you know I still
27:20remember the two big banks which is Bank
27:23of America and City Banks and City Bank
27:26said the city never sleeps and Bank of
27:29America came out saying we caught the
27:31city napping you know that was the level
27:34of marketing advertising tongue-in-cheek
27:37stuff which caught your attention and so
27:40I became fascinated with marketing
27:44And I came away back to India started
27:47working in the business and I always
27:49said a brand needs a
27:52personality. Of
27:54course I very quickly realized in India
27:57I couldn't replicate what they did in
27:59America because for alcohol India is a
28:03media dark environment where the
28:07the advertising of alcohol is banned.
28:11So in a way I had to think of ways of
28:15authoring surrogate advertising
28:19uh which I did pretty
28:21successfully you know not some Mickey
28:24Mouse
28:25stuff where if you want to advertise an
28:28alcoholic brand that you sort of
28:30suddenly you know produce some music
28:33cassettes and I built a full water
28:37business around
28:38Kingfisher and a bought a business of
28:41sign significant enough size
28:45uh that you could justify advertising
28:48it. Okay. And therefore you you
28:51advertise the core brand.
28:55So I gave King Fisher a very colorful
28:58personality
29:01because that's what evokes
29:04you
29:06know like Magdal number
29:09one golden moments Magdal
29:13moments it's evocative it's supposed to
29:16convey that you know if you want to hang
29:19out and have a good time with your
29:20friend golden moments well it's the
29:24Macdonald moment. So there were many
29:27many such
29:29examples of how I actually gave brands
29:33their
29:35personalities
29:37and in many ways I supplemented by
29:40becoming the brand ambassador
29:43myself and all of this was happening
29:45when your father was still alive. Oh
29:47absolutely absolutely.
29:50You said India was media dark when it
29:53comes to alcohol which still is the
29:56reality and there was a point where I
29:59think government banned alcohol. No, no,
30:01no, no. Or what was that? Certain states
30:04introduced prohibition
30:06such as Andhra Pradesh, unified Andhra
30:09Pradesh.
30:10Of course, Gujarat has always been dry.
30:13But the advertise advertising of alcohol
30:16is banned in India and has been banned
30:18and still is banned. When was that? When
30:21was this time when you started acquiring
30:23a lot of alcohol brands?
30:26uh because a lot of those brands were
30:28scared of the state because the state
30:30were was getting involved in the alcohol
30:32business or maybe they wanted to ban or
30:34prohibit certain things. What was this
30:36time where you started acquiring certain
30:38alcohol brands and cheap because you and
30:40your father was bullish on it.
30:42No, that was in 1977 when Majaraji Desai
30:47was the prime minister of India and he
30:50publicly announced that there should be
30:52prohibition all India. Okay. Okay. which
30:55means that alcohol should be banned
30:57across the country. So obviously the
31:00stocks the value of the stocks and
31:02shares of almost all alcoholic beverage
31:06companies whether distilleries or
31:08breweries fell. M my father was very
31:11clear that prohibition could never
31:14succeed in India and
31:17therefore he
31:20bought and so that's how we became
31:23number one by quite a fair
31:26distance because all those who panicked
31:28and sold
31:29out my father acquired.
31:33But was there something you guys knew
31:34which others didn't or it was just pure
31:36conviction? No, it was just pure
31:38conviction because we knew that uh
31:42prohibition had not even succeeded in
31:44the United States. And plus, if you look
31:47at the amount of revenue
31:50generation for the state governments
31:53through the sale of alcohol, there's no
31:56way in the world that prohibition would
31:58have succeeded in India. What h what
32:01happened after your father's death? You
32:05were doing this successful stint. You
32:07were taking bold steps. You wanted to
32:09make alcohol a cool brand. All of this
32:11is happening. Everything was going
32:12right.
32:13Right. What happened then? Well, um I
32:18was in I was in the US. I gone to
32:24finalize promotion and export of Black
32:27Dog Scotch whiskey.
32:29uh when my father sadly passed away at a
32:33cocktail party in in then
32:37Bombay
32:41and he was only
32:4359. Uh nobody ever expected him to pass
32:48so young. I was just past
32:5227. So I took the air and death flight
32:54and flew back from New
32:58York and performed my father's last
33:01rights.
33:04Then the fun began
33:08because my father surrounded himself
33:11with a few
33:13stalwarts. Yeah. Meaning people who he
33:17put in positions of great
33:20authority who were also very close to
33:23him personally.
33:28So he
33:30had somebody running the western India
33:33businesses, somebody running the eastern
33:35India
33:36businesses, somebody running the
33:38southern India
33:40businesses. And don't ever forget in
33:43those days the structure was that United
33:46Breweries Limited was the the holding
33:50company and the other companies in the
33:52group were largely
33:55controlled by its largest shareholder
33:57United Breweries or they were subsidiary
34:01companies. And so the inevitable debate
34:05started on what
34:07next, what role I should have. Of
34:11course, people acknowledged that I was
34:13in the business.
34:15Uh
34:17but people I think were a little
34:19reticent to speak openly about
34:22uh their own aspirations of being the
34:27chairman. Then something very funny
34:29happened. We had uh annual general
34:32meeting of shareholders that
34:35uh was coming due. Mhm.
34:38And the shareholders in the front line
34:41who had seen me with my
34:44dad proposed my
34:47name and that's
34:49how all other aspirants were
34:53silenced because they couldn't publicly
34:56sort of get up and say that they were
34:58more
34:59qualified particularly when it was
35:01evident I had shareholder support. M and
35:05there I was. I was installed in what I
35:07call the hot seat at a very young age.
35:10But fortunately, thanks to my
35:14upbringing, my father's
35:17insistence on proper training,
35:21familiarization with the business, time
35:24in
35:24America, time working with him. I wasn't
35:29raw. I had a fair amount under my belt
35:34to be able to address the challenge of
35:37the role. I was reading an article where
35:42u it said that you didn't trust people
35:46who was who were in control at the time
35:48of your father's uh when your father was
35:51a chairman. So that's why you hired your
35:55people and your friends because you
35:58didn't know that if you could actually
35:59go to them for the right advice or no.
36:02No, no, no. That's completely
36:04misleading. It's false. I never hired
36:07any of my friends. But let's put it this
36:10way. They would have been too young and
36:12inexperienced. In any case, you know, I
36:15mean, as I said, I was barely 28. They
36:18would be my contemporaries. M so the
36:20question of hiring them and putting them
36:23in management positions just didn't
36:25arise but I encouraged a lot of
36:27professional from within I mean people
36:30who then became the president of the
36:32spirits division of the breweries
36:33division and all the rest of it I mean
36:36my father's time the average age of the
36:41regional directors of the regional
36:43satrups was probably around 60 between
36:4660 and 65 and in In five years after I
36:51reorganized, I mean the average age was
36:53about 40. Okay. And these were all
36:56professional managers promoted from
36:59within the ranks.
37:02I mean yes there were couple of
37:03exceptions where I hired people from
37:06extremely well-known organizations
37:08uh like major consultancy firms so on so
37:11forth but beyond that largely it was all
37:14internal promotion.
37:16compare or give me differences
37:18between
37:20before okay so when your father was the
37:24chairman versus when you were the
37:26chairman give me three four differences
37:27what happened in United briefies
37:32it was the entire approach for instance
37:34mine was a
37:35decentralized accountability approach
37:38okay
37:40uh I would have
37:41monthly operating review meetings called
37:44MS for each line of business. Okay.
37:49And that's all I wanted to know about
37:51how the businesses were performing on a
37:54regular day-to-day basis. I wasn't
37:57leaning over the shoulders of the
38:00management team and trying to
38:03micromanage
38:04things. Um when opportunities came
38:07along,
38:09uh then of course we'd had separate
38:12discussions. So if you empower
38:16people, accountability comes along with
38:18it because people are
38:20also motivated to demonstrate their own
38:25capabilities. Now my father's style was
38:28as I said far more hands-on owner
38:32operated micromanaging management style
38:36and he spent a lot of time doing it. Um
38:39I had a lot of free
38:41time. Um as I will tell you as we
38:44proceed because because of this
38:48decentralization and this whole new
38:51management culture Mhm. that I had
38:55enough time in your um introduced in in
38:57the UB
38:58group and this was between let's say
39:011983 and
39:041986
39:0687 that is why I was able to
39:10then acquire the Burgger paints global
39:13business based here in the UK and
39:16actually become a non-resident Indian
39:20in ' 86 88 8 Okay Yeah. And I still have
39:24a letter from the Reserve Bank of India
39:26confirming that from 1988 I would be
39:29treated as a non-resident Indian
39:33uh for tax and exchange control
39:36purposes. And the reason I and of course
39:39that obviously meant that I couldn't
39:41spend more than 180 days in India. Mhm.
39:44Well, the luxury of spending 180 days
39:48out of India running this new
39:52opportunity in international business
39:54means business. Uh I was able to do it
39:58only because of the decentralized
40:01management structure implemented in
40:03India. So
40:06both the foreign businesses and the
40:08Indian businesses ran very well.
40:11Give me differences and similarities
40:13between Vital Malia and Vijay Malia.
40:18Well, Vital Malia's
40:21thought 100 times about spending money.
40:23Vijay Malia probably thought
40:26twice.
40:28Um yeah, you know, I guess it's age. Um
40:32it's aspiration, its age,
40:35it's
40:36different styles and outlook on life.
40:38Was there any difference in terms
40:43of public attention as well? You were
40:46pretty loud. Your personality was I No,
40:50look, once again, you can think whatever
40:52you want to think of me and so can the
40:54whole world.
40:56Just because I'm a self-confident guy
41:00who is not afraid of public
41:04speaking who doesn't suffer from stage
41:08fright. If you want to say that I am
41:12arrogant,
41:14flamboyant, go ahead and say it. I can't
41:16deny it. My father was very shy of
41:20public
41:21speaking. Totally the opposite. I am a
41:24very confident public speaker. I used to
41:27debate in school. I used to participate
41:30in drama in
41:32school.
41:34So I can speak.
41:38So you didn't want public recognition.
41:40You loved speaking. No. Well, if
41:42somebody asked me a question or I was
41:44invited to speak, I'd speak and people
41:47would well in some cases tell me I'm
41:50talking nonsense and in most cases say
41:53they liked my speak. But I was able to
41:57communicate from a platform.
42:01But won't you speak certain things and
42:03tweak your speeches in a way that that
42:05becomes headlines?
42:07I never looked for headlines. I never
42:10ever looked for headlines.
42:12The headlines were created around me by
42:16the
42:18media. You know, let's take the case of
42:21flamboyance.
42:23Okay? And let's spend a minute on
42:25analyzing flamboyance.
42:27To me, flamboyance
42:31means loving
42:33life and appreciating the good things in
42:36life. That's what flamboyance is.
42:39In a public way. Okay.
42:41That is what I would say is the meaning
42:44of
42:46lambards. How old was I when my father
42:48died?
42:5028. Compare me to other industrialists
42:54in India at that time. I was 28. I was
42:56chairman of UB group. Who was chairman
42:59of RPG enterprises? Mr. Ra
43:02Prasad. Who was the chairman of
43:04Reliance?
43:06Dhubayani. who was the uh chairman of
43:10the Brila group Mr. BK
43:16Bella I was a contemporary of their
43:20children
43:22but I was thrown into the deep end. So I
43:26was a group chairman being compared to
43:30people who were my father's age.
43:33Now as a
43:35youngster I had the the passions of
43:39young people like I
43:43enjoyed a good
43:45car. I
43:48enjoyed my
43:50drinks. I enjoyed parties. I enjoyed
43:53music. I enjoyed sport.
43:58Not all of my father's contemporaries
44:02who suddenly became my contemporaries in
44:05business lived that way. They were more
44:07conservative, you know, more at home,
44:10more domestic, consistent with their own
44:13age. So suddenly the media decided, huh,
44:17this guy, chairman of UB group, is
44:20flamboyant. I was flam termed flamboyant
44:23only because I did what every other
44:25youngster aspired to do.
44:28You know, I mean, at the end of the
44:30day, you have to make
44:33allowances, age related allowances.
44:36Let's put it that
44:37way. But it's okay. I have no regrets. I
44:40I didn't I didn't spend anybody else's
44:43money. I spent my own money. I lived my
44:45life the way I wanted to live my life.
44:50Uh if I look back, I've got millions of
44:55miles of
44:57corporate experience under my belt
44:59starting off at a very young
45:02age and um I hope people appreciate the
45:07more positive contributions that I have
45:10made rather than the persistently
45:13negative narrative that has overtaken
45:16and overshadowed
45:18a effectively a whole career. I don't
45:21think I ever use that word
45:23flamboy. It was the media and the
45:26narrative they created around me that
45:28was
45:29flamboyant for their own purposes.
45:33Now I just lived like any
45:37other moderately wealthy 28 year old
45:42would live. No. Yeah. extraordinary
45:46life. How can it be extraordinary? In
45:48what way? Do you know what the exchange
45:51controls were in India? Do you know if
45:53you could import a Ferrari in India?
45:55Today you can. But go back to the
45:58198586. Could you import a Ferrari? No
46:00way in the world. So did you or did you
46:02not? You could only buy cars from the
46:04state trading
46:06corporation through an auction process
46:08in Delhi.
46:10But you ended up buying all of them. I
46:12could
46:13not. later you bought it. Look, I like
46:17good cars. I race cars. I've been racing
46:20cars since I was a
46:21teenager. Okay, I brought a Formula 1
46:24car into India to race. Okay, when my
46:27father was still alive. In fact, when I
46:30won the race at
46:31Scholabaram, okay, near then Madras, now
46:35Chennai, I called him from the racetrack
46:37and said, "I won the race." He was very
46:39happy. So it wasn't as if I was trying
46:41to do things behind people's back. But
46:44okay, I was fond of motorsports back
46:46then.
46:49Okay. So it came from media. But did you
46:51enjoy the tag of your Where did I have
46:54the time to enjoy or spend my time and
46:58energy denying? I just lived my life,
47:02did my work. And I think whoever you may
47:06ask I work really hard. See this is
47:12very okay this is very like a media
47:15answer. Okay. U what did you were aware
47:19that people call you Flip Point. You
47:21were aware that this was the image built
47:22being built. You were aware that
47:25headline. What was your reaction? What
47:28did you start secretly? Did you enjoy
47:30it? No way. So what was the reaction the
47:33moment people would write it you like
47:34ignore it? Of course I would ignore it.
47:36What have I done for the last 9 years?
47:40But at that time you peak you let me
47:42tell you something
47:44being referred to as flamboyant some
47:48people may take as a compliment but
47:52nobody will
47:53tolerate being called chore,
47:57thief,
47:58fugitive. Right? These are damning
48:01words. I ignored all of it because I
48:04knew I couldn't fight it much like I
48:07ignored
48:09flamboyance. I couldn't spend all my
48:11time devoted to contradicting what the
48:15media
48:18wrote. Yeah. And now but okay let me
48:22also tell you I referred to earlier I
48:25said you know this
48:27whole theme of
48:30flamboyance the media if you'd see the
48:33pattern of their reportage on me okay I
48:37mean and they kept on writing things
48:40which really I thought these guys don't
48:43have anything better to do vija party
48:48vijay mala is hosting Newest party at
48:50King Fishella Vij Malia is doing this
48:53that and other things. Okay. Bottom line
48:56is they
48:58created a narrative of a
49:02personality that helped them to sell
49:04their own media. One day there was a
49:07terribly wrong factually incorrect
49:13uh article in one of the large
49:14newspapers in India. So I called the
49:17owner. Yes.
49:20How could you
49:21possibly publish something like this
49:24without checking the facts?
49:27Vijay, sorry. Your name
49:30sells. So they created this animal
49:34called Vijay Malia whose name started
49:37selling so they could they could they
49:40could they could you know get more
49:42eyeballs, more readership, more
49:43viewership. But be that as it may, I
49:47lived my life. What was my
49:50objectives? I am not apologetic for the
49:54life I
49:55lived because I didn't spend anybody
49:57else's money except my own.
50:01I didn't borrow one rupee from
50:05anybody. Okay?
50:11I
50:13was much
50:15maligned, much
50:18complimented, but effectively I was my
50:21own brand
50:22ambassador. Take the case of
50:26one muchtalked about phrase, king of
50:30good times. Yeah.
50:32I'm not
50:33crazy to walk around with a label on my
50:38chest saying king of good
50:40times read. And this is where somebody
50:43must make the
50:45effort. See the label of the king vishab
50:49beia that was
50:52developed. It says the king of good
50:55times. The personality of King Fisher
51:00Bear was the king of good times. Ulta
51:05media started calling me the king of
51:07good
51:09times. So tell me being the king of good
51:13times will not help sell the beer. But
51:17it did the because the beer itself was
51:20the genuine king of good
51:22times. And the personality that I gave
51:26King Fisher, promoting sport, promoting
51:30fashion, promoting
51:32music, sponsoring motor racing. So all
51:36the stuff that's exciting to
51:38youngsters that represented the
51:40personality of the King Fisher
51:42brand. That's why King
51:45Fisher was such a success. But talk to
51:48me about building of King Fisher. Don't
51:51you think it was a like at least that's
51:53what I think it was a very well curated
51:56strategy that I will become a brand
51:59which represents King Fisher. No, I was
52:02brand
52:04ambassador and I have done it not only
52:07for King Fisher but take the case of our
52:10spirits business. I actually came on
52:13national television with an ad
52:16encouraging
52:17people not to drink and
52:21drive. I did it myself. I didn't get
52:24some film star to do
52:27it. I did it myself. So bu becoming a
52:30personal brand was a strategy then. Of
52:32course it was. So then why does it
52:35bother you that you wouldn't bother me
52:37act as like the king of bothered me? But
52:39that's what I'm saying. But I am not the
52:42person who labeled myself as king of
52:44good times. You happened that the media
52:48started calling me the king of good
52:50times. Fine because subtly you c curated
52:52this. No, I didn't curate king of good
52:54times. In what way? By actually
52:58promoting a lifestyle which every young
53:00person would aspire to. Why not? People
53:03young people are entitled to
53:05aspirations. M young people are
53:07entitled to improve lifestyles. Young
53:11people are entitled to to treat
53:15themselves.
53:16Um yeah, but that doesn't mean I went
53:20around the whole world saying, "Well,
53:21you know what? I'm the king of good
53:23times." No way. Never said it even once.
53:26But you knew it will happen. No, I
53:28didn't. How should I care? I achieved my
53:32objective of making King the number one
53:35selling beer. That's it. How did that
53:38happen? What happened along the way is
53:40is irrelevant. Okay. How did this
53:42happen? King Fisher beer. How did it
53:44become number one? Tell me story of King
53:47Fisher. Well, when I took over this
53:49business, Golden Eagle or Mo Breweries
53:53was the largest beer company in India.
53:55Today, United Breweries Limited controls
53:58almost 52% of the beer market in India.
54:01King Fisher is is I mean not very many
54:05product categories that can can
54:09lay claim to 52% market national market
54:11share but yeah Kingfisher is by far the
54:14number one selling brand that's because
54:18yes I cured a personality around
54:21Kingfisher around fun around excitement
54:23around vibrancy color I created the
54:26brand and I achieved my objective you
54:29take the case of of of Mcdal number one.
54:33I mean once again this whole golden
54:36moments, Mcdal moments, right? Uh it was
54:42a little more sober than the Kingfisher
54:46ads because the target demographic was
54:49different but it's the largest selling
54:52whiskey in the world today.
54:55Number one,
54:57right? All these brands I created.
55:01Tell me one turning point which just
55:03made everything good for you in King
55:06Fisher. Kingfisher beer specifically.
55:10It's a sustained effort. But what was
55:13when was the first time you thought okay
55:14now it'll work because it was always
55:16working it as the from day one. Yeah.
55:20When I relaunched it new packaging,
55:23right? Make it more appealing on the
55:25shelf.
55:27uh started sponsoring music, fashion,
55:31events, got more brand
55:34attention. Automatically the sales
55:36started picking up and then you know as
55:40we went along promoting our marketing
55:43strategy which was clearly effective,
55:46the sales
55:49followed. Same thing with with Macdonald
55:52number one whiskey. Nothing is
55:53overnight.
55:55National brands are not built overnight.
55:59There wasn't one moment that you could
56:00point pinpoint or was it? How can you
56:04how can you pinpoint a moment because it
56:06isn't like switching on and off a light
56:09switch. Why did you get conviction that
56:12King Bishop beer will work because it
56:14was little expensive than other ones.
56:17We had brands such as UB
56:21Royal, Flying Horse, we had Jubilee. Now
56:26you tell me even though they were my
56:28brands, does any one of these evoke any
56:31excitement in you? No. But if I say to
56:34you King Fisher, I mean you take notice,
56:36right? So that's the platform I built
56:39on. All right. Similarly, I said I mean
56:43you take the case of of Macdonald number
56:45one, right? It was
56:48uh targeted at uh slightly higher
56:52demographic, but it went along with more
56:57sophisticated
56:59um uh merchandising and stuff like that
57:02which which which ordered well for the
57:05brand. And today as the Indian economy
57:07has grown as consumer spending power has
57:10gone up it's the world's biggest
57:14brand selling about 32 million cases per
57:17year. What was the biggest challenge in
57:21building of King Fisher
57:25bec I think or everything was just
57:27painted red and it worked out for you.
57:30No no there was nothing red about
57:32Macdonald. It was all black and gold. Uh
57:35the only one around that's red is King
57:38Fisher. No, I think more than
57:42challenges I look at opportunities. I
57:45mean you know 2005 I bought Shawless my
57:48biggest competitor. I mean that
57:51propelled the spirits business I mean to
57:54number one position by far brought on
57:57board banks like Royal Challenge and all
58:00the rest of it. So I mean those were
58:02pretty bold business decisions which
58:06once again self-confidence. I had to pay
58:09$300 million for the company. Big amount
58:13of money but made it work. That's how
58:15United Spirits was created today with a
58:18market cap of almost one lakh crores. So
58:22you know I mean she had the confidence
58:24to do it. You go do it. You said you
58:27bought Bojo paints at the same time.
58:31talk about that. Why paints all of a
58:33sudden you were making money with
58:35alcohol? You were minting profits out of
58:38alcohol. You were convinced that brands
58:41like King Fisher and then at one point
58:44other brands as well would work out
58:46really well, which it did. Why
58:50buying a paint business like this is so
58:54the paint British paints in
58:58India. Okay. which is now called Burgger
59:01Paintants
59:03was part of the Hex Group. My father was
59:07chairman of British Paints India. Okay.
59:09When he passed away, I became chairman
59:12of British Paints
59:19India. During my tenure as chairman of
59:22British Paints India, I learned
59:23something about the paint business.
59:26Right. Now,
59:31what did you learn about paint business?
59:35Go back in time what I told
59:38you. When I was
59:40sent to America, then to England, I
59:43worked as a foreman in the Ber Jensen
59:47Nicholson paint factory here in this
59:48country.
59:50So I not only knew
59:53about making paint but also how a paint
59:57business was run because I was chairman
59:59of
1:00:01budgets. So when Hex Group decided to
1:00:04sell their global budget pens,
1:00:07headquartered in England, operating in
1:00:10the Caribbean, operating
1:00:14in
1:00:16Africa, in uh Asia, the true
1:00:19multinational company.
1:00:22Uh I went to them and put together a
1:00:27um loan package with those days the Hong
1:00:31Kong and Shanghai Banking
1:00:33Corporation and bought it because I had
1:00:37this aspiration of creating India's
1:00:41first
1:00:42multinational that was back yeah I said
1:00:471988. Okay. So from being a
1:00:51Indiancentric business I was operating
1:00:55in 25 countries worldwide flying the
1:00:58Indian
1:01:00flag. So your objective is only that I
1:01:04want to take India or Indian business to
1:01:07the world. No absolutely not. I I I I
1:01:11was was
1:01:14uh very focused on making a hefty profit
1:01:18out of it too. All right. Uh which I
1:01:21successfully did. So I bought it in a
1:01:24leverage buyout. Mhm.
1:01:29And after that I did
1:01:32IPOs. I did IPOs in Jamaica. I did IPOs
1:01:36on the Kenyan Stock Exchange. I did an
1:01:39IPO on the Singapore Stock
1:01:41Exchange and diluted our shareholding to
1:01:4651%. But used the proceeds of the IPO to
1:01:49pay down the
1:01:50debt, right? And then finally in 1996, I
1:01:55sold the entire business that was then
1:01:57listed on the Singapore Stock
1:01:59Exchange and I made a fat
1:02:03profit. And I still remember and I have
1:02:07no hesitation in saying this that I went
1:02:09to my mom and I said, "You see this
1:02:12piece of paper? This is what I
1:02:15earned. This is not
1:02:17inherited. I made it
1:02:20myself. So when I spend it, don't
1:02:24complain." And that's on a lighter end.
1:02:27Yeah, I mean I I I that was when as a
1:02:31non-resident Indian I made my first
1:02:35serious piece of money out of entirely
1:02:38my own
1:02:39initiative in a pence
1:02:42environment. But hey, that's is what
1:02:46it's all about. I mean I got experience
1:02:48of doing IPOs in three different
1:02:50countries across the globe. That was in
1:02:54invaluable experience. Do you regret
1:02:56selling it? Because today BGER is I
1:02:58think 60 70,000 cr big business. That's
1:03:01only one BGER in India. I own the global
1:03:05BGER all over the world including India.
1:03:09I sold Bger paints in India to dingas.
1:03:13So do you regret selling? A great job
1:03:15with it. No, God bless them. They did a
1:03:18super job with it. But it was if it was
1:03:21doing so good, why did you sell it then?
1:03:23Well, uh, it was bought by the
1:03:25Malaysians.
1:03:27Okay. And they came with an offer I
1:03:29couldn't refuse. I mean, okay. They
1:03:31offered me some two and a half times the
1:03:32quoted shapers.
1:03:36Okay. You mentioned that you said you
1:03:40told your mother that I made this
1:03:41profit. Now don't complain when I spend
1:03:44it. Correct. Tell me about relationship
1:03:47with your mother. My mom brought me up.
1:03:49I used to live with her in Kolkata alone
1:03:52since ' 64
1:03:5565 and yeah so she's stood by me like a
1:04:00rock she's a very well educated lady
1:04:04um and yeah I mean she's been living in
1:04:06England now for 30 plus
1:04:09years
1:04:11but yeah I mean you know I mean I wanted
1:04:14to buy a
1:04:15yacht I wanted to buy a plane and stuff
1:04:18like like that. And so I wanted to make
1:04:21sure I set the record straight. I told
1:04:22my mom I earned this money. So if I
1:04:25spend it buying a yacht and spend it
1:04:26buying a plane, don't complain. Did she
1:04:29complain? Oh, no. Never. But why did you
1:04:31say that? She enjoyed the art. What?
1:04:33Okay. Why did you say this to her then?
1:04:35Was she like frugal? She would ask you
1:04:37not to spend. No, it isn't that. I mean
1:04:40it's natural for a parent you know if
1:04:44you see something that's quite
1:04:46extraordinary quite expensive lavish
1:04:48call it what you may it's normal
1:04:52parental reaction to ask the child you
1:04:56know why you spending money or whatever
1:04:59so I mean I'm just telling you I made a
1:05:01joke out of it but I was very proud that
1:05:04that was money I earned you know it
1:05:07wasn't money I inherited it. Tell me one
1:05:11lesson you learned from your mom.
1:05:14Oh, I've learned many
1:05:16lessons from my
1:05:19mom. Don't waste time and life arguing.
1:05:27It's not worth it.
1:05:30Use your time productively. Think
1:05:32positively.
1:05:34Don't keep arguing with people unless
1:05:35it's a matter that's going to get you
1:05:38somewhere. And which argument gets you
1:05:43anywhere. And what did you learn from
1:05:45your father? Give me one lesson.
1:05:47Something that you can't forget.
1:05:52Hard work and an ability to read a
1:05:54balance sheet. Company balance sheet.
1:05:58He was really good at it. Right. That's
1:05:59what it's written about him. Super
1:06:01little at it. Do you miss your I don't
1:06:03think I'd be I'd be as good but I think
1:06:06whatever I learned from him was good
1:06:09enough for me to produce some excellent
1:06:13robust balance sheets in all the
1:06:16companies I ran. Do you miss him? Well,
1:06:19who doesn't miss a dad? But you know
1:06:22it's now what 1983 to 2025 is a long
1:06:27time.
1:06:30What do you miss about him? You can't
1:06:32keep missing somebody for 40
1:06:34years. Life is too short for that. But
1:06:37do you think he would have been proud of
1:06:38you today? Well, I would hope
1:06:41so. Certainly not proud of me being
1:06:44called chore or
1:06:48and certainly nobody would be proud of
1:06:50that. Certainly no parent. I know my
1:06:51mother gets very agitated even today.
1:06:53She's 98 years old and every time she
1:06:57sees the Indian media, she's reduced to
1:06:59tears. Obviously, it hurts her more. I'm
1:07:03probably more thick skinned, more robust
1:07:05and I just ignore it. But, you know, at
1:07:08that age, my mother doesn't and it's
1:07:12very unfair what has been written, what
1:07:15has been alleged because it's complete
1:07:17nonsense. Let's walk through the case.
1:07:20Let's start from the point of what
1:07:22happened in Kingfisher Airlines. Okay.
1:07:25When did you decide that you want to
1:07:26start a kingfisher a
1:07:292002 2003
1:07:32and you just Okay. So here's a story.
1:07:34Hear me out. What I've gathered from
1:07:37reading about it
1:07:40is one day out of blue you go to an AGM
1:07:44or like just a board meeting I think not
1:07:46AGM it was a board meeting where you
1:07:48announced that on my son's birthday we
1:07:52are going to launch Kingfisher Airlines
1:07:55your CFO was not happy about it but you
1:07:57still pursued and you want to do it this
1:08:00was the this is what is reported
1:08:04What was the reality? Tell me the truth.
1:08:08The truth is that Damana brothers from
1:08:11Bombay. Mhm.
1:08:15Who previously had Damana Airlines M
1:08:19came and made a presentation to my
1:08:21CFO Ravin
1:08:23Aruni saying the time is ripe to start
1:08:27an airline now.
1:08:30Okay. Ravender had discussions with
1:08:34them came to me and said would you like
1:08:37to look at this proposal? I said
1:08:40yes. We looked at
1:08:43it and finally we decided yes it is
1:08:48opportune so let's go for it. Okay.
1:08:52That's how the idea of an airline was
1:08:54bomb
1:08:58and then you didn't take anyone in
1:09:01confidence. You were just hey out of
1:09:04nowhere I think we are alcohol business
1:09:06now we want an airline business.
1:09:09No there's nothing wrong in
1:09:13diversification. The UB group has had a
1:09:15history even during my father's time of
1:09:18operating food processing companies.
1:09:20petrochemical companies,
1:09:22electromechanical companies. So I mean
1:09:26diversity was nothing new to us. So your
1:09:28initial plan to launch an airline was
1:09:307th May 2005 but you ended up launching
1:09:33on 9th May 2005 right and then this
1:09:36whole business of launch on son's
1:09:38birthday as a birthday gift and all is
1:09:40complete baloney. All
1:09:44right. I think my son would be
1:09:46embarrassed and I would be equally
1:09:47embarrassed to say I'm starting an
1:09:49airline. All right. As an 18th birthday
1:09:52gift. Complete nonsense. All right. But
1:09:55okay. Once again, media narratives are
1:10:00best ignored.
1:10:04A fullblown professional management team
1:10:07was in position before the airline even
1:10:10started before the first plane arrived.
1:10:13Okay. The CEO and the director of
1:10:18engineering were both hired from the US.
1:10:22Okay. And the airline was launched.
1:10:27There's a lot of narrative about
1:10:29Kingfish
1:10:31Airlines. There's a lot of narrative
1:10:33about mismanagement.
1:10:35A lot of narrative about the Dean
1:10:38acquisition. All sorts of things. Let's
1:10:40pick one by one. What was the first
1:10:42vision of King Visher Airlines when you
1:10:44were starting in 2005? To produce the
1:10:47best flying experience that India had
1:10:51ever seen.
1:10:53Make it a premium experience. totally a
1:10:56premium experience number one terms of
1:10:58passenger comfort, safety, number two to
1:11:01connect places in India that had never
1:11:04ever been connected before and that it
1:11:07was a really serious part of the growing
1:11:10infrastructural needs of the country.
1:11:14Hm. But I was watching one documentary
1:11:18about you
1:11:20and I think the person who you got to
1:11:23lead was Alex. Yeah. Will Cox. Yeah. So
1:11:28Alex said
1:11:29that you convinced him that you want to
1:11:32build a lowc cost carrier but it was not
1:11:35like that. And in your own words, if
1:11:38you're giving a vision that I want to
1:11:39build a premium experience, why did you
1:11:41get a CEO or like a president, I don't
1:11:43know what was his position, but somebody
1:11:45to lead by telling him
1:11:48that you want to build a lowc cost
1:11:54carrier. That is your own
1:11:56misinformation.
1:11:59He said it somewhere. I'm not I'm just
1:12:01quoting him. Fair enough. I haven't seen
1:12:04it, but I'll respond.
1:12:09Kingfisher Airlines started off as a
1:12:12singleass airline, low
1:12:15cost but with a
1:12:18difference. It had inflight
1:12:21entertainment and it offered meals.
1:12:25Everything else that's applicable to a
1:12:28lowcost airline was applied to King
1:12:30Fisher as well. commonality of fleet,
1:12:32commonality of training, the whole lot.
1:12:35I mean there's a whole set of rules.
1:12:38What is a lowcost carrier? What is a
1:12:40full service carrier? Right? And that
1:12:43even descends down to intricacies such
1:12:45as the type of reservation system,
1:12:48flight planning system you use and all
1:12:50the rest of it. So Kingfisher had all
1:12:52the lowcost attributes. Okay. The only
1:12:55product plus was inflight entertainment
1:12:58for the first time ever in India and
1:13:02good
1:13:03food. So to me the logic from my
1:13:07marketing experience was Indians love
1:13:10entertainment therefore the inflight
1:13:12entertainment system and Indians love
1:13:15food. M so good food right and then of
1:13:20course okay service quality whether
1:13:23whether you're a low cost or a full
1:13:25service I mean you'd like a nice well
1:13:27trained polite set of crew and we spent
1:13:31a lot of time and energy on
1:13:33that
1:13:36then when we saw the market
1:13:39evolve we added king fisher first which
1:13:42is basically the business
1:13:45class.
1:13:47Why? Because the market demanded that on
1:13:51certain
1:13:51routes, right? There's certain people
1:13:54who would not fly King Fisher because we
1:13:57didn't have a front cabin or a business
1:13:59class who would always fly jet. Okay?
1:14:03Because Jet had two class, business
1:14:05class and economy class, right?
1:14:08And now just to prove my
1:14:12point, Indigo is often referred to as
1:14:16the most successful lowcost carrier in
1:14:18the world and certainly the largest lowc
1:14:21cost carrier in India. What's Indigo
1:14:23doing now? Installing a business class.
1:14:25Right.
1:14:27Yeah. So it's not such a dumb idea.
1:14:31Right.
1:14:34So it worked in your favor initially.
1:14:37Yes. So by and by 2008 you were the
1:14:40biggest airline in the country having a
1:14:4427% market share. Yes. Right. What went
1:14:48wrong?
1:14:49If things were right, your marketing was
1:14:51working, you had everything right. In
1:14:54fact before even you answer that I want
1:14:56to go to which is often talked about is
1:14:59your training of cabin crew. What was
1:15:02the idea behind that? you selected
1:15:04certain people based on how they look or
1:15:07how they're going to be presented. Yeah.
1:15:09Well, you know, I mean, at the end of
1:15:10the day, you have you have very
1:15:14good-looking ladies
1:15:17who sadly can't speak very
1:15:21well. Now, what is one of the key
1:15:23attributes of a cabin crew?
1:15:26Communication.
1:15:28I mean you may look
1:15:30good but if you can't communicate with
1:15:33the
1:15:34passenger that doesn't serve the purpose
1:15:37the kind of service standards that I set
1:15:39for the airline and my service standards
1:15:42were unique they included in business
1:15:47class
1:15:48the
1:15:51aeroses cleaning the reading glasses and
1:15:54spectacles of our customers. We call
1:15:57them
1:15:58guests,
1:16:00right? So there were little things that
1:16:02made a vast difference in the customer
1:16:05experience. Tell me two more thing. Two,
1:16:07two, three more things. This is one.
1:16:10Okay. Secondly, the food was second to
1:16:12none.
1:16:14Right. I mean the quality of the seats
1:16:16themselves, the recline and all the rest
1:16:18of it, what they call the seat pitch,
1:16:21it's second to none. So there was so
1:16:24many little attributes. We
1:16:28called
1:16:29customers not passengers but guests.
1:16:33Many airlines have copied us since but
1:16:36they were the little little things that
1:16:38made a difference. I was very focused on
1:16:40the service delivery excellence of King
1:16:43Krishna. You can go further because you
1:16:46don't know this. You can't ask me the
1:16:47question. So let me tell you. Yeah. In
1:16:51the first one
1:16:53year, the airport manager at every
1:16:55single airport in India had to send me
1:16:59on my personal mobile and
1:17:01SMS the flight
1:17:04number, the schedule time of departure
1:17:07and the actual departure time.
1:17:11So every night before I went to bed
1:17:13which was rather late I used to look at
1:17:16my phone every single flight of King
1:17:18Fisher of that day I used to monitor
1:17:21personally the on-time performance. You
1:17:23were so detailed focused. You were so
1:17:27because the the service industry in the
1:17:30airline industry
1:17:32requires focus requires detailed focus.
1:17:36So agreed then it worked in your favor
1:17:40till 2008. What happened then? Simple.
1:17:43You ever heard of Lemon Brothers? Yeah.
1:17:46You ever heard of the global financial
1:17:48crisis,
1:17:49right? Did it not impact India?
1:17:53Of course it did. The whole aviation
1:17:55sector was forget aviation. Every sector
1:17:57every sector was. Yeah. The money
1:17:59stopped. It got dry. The value of the
1:18:00Indian rupee. So I went to Shri Pranab
1:18:04Mukhuji then finance minister of
1:18:07India having grown up in Kolkata. I
1:18:10speak fairly decent Bengali and I
1:18:14said I'm a
1:18:17problem king Airlines downsize
1:18:21which
1:18:22means I have to downsize this
1:18:26a cut number of aircraft. I have to lay
1:18:31off employees. M right because I can't
1:18:34afford to operate under these depressed
1:18:39economic
1:18:40circumstances. He said
1:18:42no at this time connectivity is
1:18:46important. Yeah. The jobs and employment
1:18:50are important particularly because you
1:18:52know typically in an airline they're not
1:18:56blue collar workers. Huh? M these are
1:18:58not like work men. Yeah. And the the
1:19:03boys and girls who work in an
1:19:05airline can't be classified as blue
1:19:07collar. And he said I don't want them to
1:19:10lose their
1:19:12jobs. So you continue banks will support
1:19:15you. That is how it all started.
1:19:19I was told not to downsize King Fisher
1:19:23at that
1:19:24time and yes the banks did support. All
1:19:29right. Now
1:19:32what happened then? Lot of well you tell
1:19:35me the narrative. I'll tell you the
1:19:38truth. You tell me the narrative. Then
1:19:40there was a consortium formed of 17
1:19:43banks and the loan was given to you via
1:19:47SBI right? Was that the first or IDBI
1:19:51was first?
1:19:53See this is where people are not aware.
1:19:59I acquired Eden
1:20:04which everybody says was a big mistake.
1:20:08Yeah. What? In $137 million or something
1:20:12like that.
1:20:15Everybody says you overpaid for it. In
1:20:17the world of
1:20:22business, there's something known as
1:20:25consolidation, industry
1:20:29consolidation. There is something known
1:20:31as eliminate the disruptor. Okay.
1:20:37Eden was famous for advertising and
1:20:41promoting one rupee tickets. Yeah.
1:20:44Clearly you could never ever
1:20:47sustain any airline business selling
1:20:50tickets for one
1:20:52rupee. Right. Okay. It was a bait. H
1:20:58but that
1:20:59set certain price expectations in the
1:21:02mindset of the customers. Yeah.
1:21:05and affected not only Decker which was
1:21:08losing money but the industry as a whole
1:21:11of which King Fisher was also a part.
1:21:16Right?
1:21:18So at that time we looked at
1:21:21it was also Bangalore based. It had the
1:21:27same Airbus aircraft. It had the same
1:21:31train pilots as King Fisher. So there
1:21:33was a lot of
1:21:35engineering compatibility
1:21:40plus scale and
1:21:43size with a merger of Kingfisher and
1:21:47Deka eliminate the
1:21:49disruptor and consolidate the industry
1:21:52and Kingfisher Airlines. That was the
1:21:55logic of buying
1:21:57Dean, not
1:21:59this much
1:22:02touted logic of I was desperate to fly
1:22:05overseas. I needed to get past that
1:22:085-year hurdle. Complete nonsense. Now,
1:22:12why should I shout from the rooftops
1:22:15trying to trying to clarify this? But if
1:22:20you talk to anybody about elimination of
1:22:23a disruptor and consolidation of
1:22:26industry, it'll start make and
1:22:28commonality of equipment, it'll start
1:22:30making business sense. But if your
1:22:32philosophy was to make a premium
1:22:35airline, why would you buy something
1:22:38which stands for lowc cost carrier,
1:22:40which stands for something cheap, which
1:22:41stands for one rupee ticket? Because the
1:22:43customers would be completely different.
1:22:46The only obvious sense which anybody
1:22:48could make it out from it was if you are
1:22:51going for a different vision you are
1:22:53probably going out because the 5year
1:22:56window which you wanted uh which you
1:22:59wanted to bounce right probably yeah of
1:23:01course like that was the logic like I to
1:23:04clarify to tell people who don't know
1:23:06about it the logic that people talk
1:23:08about is if an Indian airline wanted to
1:23:10fly overseas they should have operated
1:23:12in India for at least 5 years before
1:23:14getting the license to operate air and
1:23:17you didn't have that and that's why you
1:23:19bought air deck in so that you could
1:23:22start flying overseas and you paid an
1:23:24absurd amount of price for it that's
1:23:26what people say so who is the people
1:23:29that you're quoting everybody like all
1:23:31the things that I've read all the all
1:23:33the media like media right yeah like the
1:23:35legacy media right the legacy media the
1:23:37people who are responsible for giving us
1:23:41the information I mean that's what as a
1:23:43citizen that's where I get my
1:23:44information from correct and at least
1:23:45from the ones who I really respect. So I
1:23:48don't think anybody at UB group was that
1:23:52dumb with a lack of business
1:23:57understanding to buy an
1:24:00airline, an operating airline just to be
1:24:02able to fly overseas.
1:24:06I'm telling you the logic
1:24:08was consolidation of the
1:24:11industry given the commonality of
1:24:14equipment.
1:24:18I referred a little
1:24:20earlier to the installation of a front
1:24:23cabin or business class which we called
1:24:26king first which Indigo are doing even
1:24:29now. There are certain routes in India
1:24:32that demand
1:24:34right a front cabin where there are
1:24:36people who will only fly business class
1:24:39fair but the bulk of
1:24:43India people want a single class
1:24:47product Dean fitted that bill
1:24:49fantastically
1:24:51right we opened up more routes than had
1:24:55ever been opened before or available for
1:24:58air connectivity
1:25:00That was one of the biggest
1:25:01contributions we made to the Indian
1:25:04aviation sector and economy.
1:25:07Right. Dean also played a part in
1:25:11that.
1:25:14So, Kingfisher's sad failure
1:25:17subsequently had nothing to do with
1:25:19Dean. Okay. Nothing to do with how much
1:25:21we paid for
1:25:23Dean. Right. Got it. Those were totally
1:25:26separate set of reasons.
1:25:29Right. But business reasons. Here's a
1:25:32question on it. So I get the idea that
1:25:34you wanted to service more routes. You
1:25:36wanted to consolidate. That was a
1:25:38business decision. You saw that hey I
1:25:40want to build a premium airline but
1:25:41there's a bulk of India who cares about
1:25:43the price and you wanted to contribute
1:25:46to make sure that I want to make sure
1:25:49that India gets to fly anywhere and
1:25:54everywhere through the price point which
1:25:57air deckin provides and if I could be
1:25:59the one to consolidate it and I could be
1:26:01the one to actually eliminate the
1:26:03disruptor I should do it. Business
1:26:04decision brilliant. Do you think then
1:26:07the wrong decision was to rebrand it to
1:26:09King Fisher Red? Because you can't start
1:26:12operating one Deckan and one King
1:26:14Fisher. So we just called it King Fisher
1:26:17Red. I mean rebranding is is is common
1:26:19in the world. Take
1:26:21Coca-Cola, right? There's Coke, there's
1:26:23Coke Zero, there's Diet Coke. It's all
1:26:27Coke, right? So a multibrand strategy is
1:26:31no rocket science. Yeah. But then the
1:26:33philosophy of air decken was low cost
1:26:35and in kingfisher red. So kingfisher
1:26:38stood for premium. Kingfisher red stood
1:26:41for low cost. It was differentiated king
1:26:44fisher
1:26:45first and king fisher red. Okay. Right.
1:26:50You tell me something. What's the
1:26:52difference between coke zero and dad
1:26:55coke? Tell me. Just two names I don't
1:26:58know. Yeah fine. What's the philosophy
1:27:00behind it? You don't know. So how can
1:27:02all these commentators be commenting on
1:27:05king pusher first and king pusher
1:27:07red? You know the the trouble in India
1:27:10is that there are too many commentators
1:27:13who don't understand the facts and of
1:27:16course the media plays to the
1:27:18gallery and that's how
1:27:21disinformation gets spread
1:27:26wide and
1:27:28then you stated somewhere again the
1:27:31commentators I'm quoting that I want
1:27:36to if I've put in a name king fisher on
1:27:39an airline no matter even if it's low
1:27:41cost I want to provide all the services
1:27:45you started providing all the services
1:27:46you started providing catering you
1:27:48started providing everything in a lowc
1:27:49cost carrier didn't you I began by
1:27:52saying that king fisher started off with
1:27:54all the attributes of a lowc cost
1:27:56carrier which is single class
1:27:59standard fleet etc etc etc but I said
1:28:03the only differentiator was inflight
1:28:05entertainment and food
1:28:07[Music]
1:28:08I mean just because I gave food didn't
1:28:11make it a full service carrier. I mean
1:28:14you want shall I give you examples?
1:28:17Yeah. You go on any lowc cost carrier
1:28:20here in Europe. All right. Do they
1:28:22starve you or do they feed you? But you
1:28:25have to pay for it. No. All of them. I
1:28:28don't know. A few of them. The ones I
1:28:29Okay. So there are exceptions. Okay.
1:28:33But that was the business like that's
1:28:35what everybody talks about, right? You
1:28:36know that's the problem. Lack of
1:28:38information and knowledge and more
1:28:41importantly no domain knowledge of the
1:28:44aviation industry leads to all sorts of
1:28:48speculation that makes no sense. So you
1:28:51tell us
1:28:53that does it make business sense to
1:28:55provide food and inflight entertainment
1:28:58in a lowc cost carrier where people
1:28:59don't care about it. Wait, our belief
1:29:02was Indians love food and love
1:29:04entertainment.
1:29:06That was for King Fisher first, but not
1:29:08for Kingfisher Red. King Fisher Red
1:29:09stands for low. An inflight
1:29:11entertainment system doesn't cost you
1:29:13money to operate every day
1:29:16but still cost you a lot of money which
1:29:19eventually will bleed your balance
1:29:21sheet. Really? I'm asking you.
1:29:24Not in our opinion. Do you think that
1:29:26was the wrong decision? What? which is
1:29:28provided. Yeah. After acquiring deck
1:29:32giving all the services of a full full
1:29:35service
1:29:36carrier in a lowc cost
1:29:39carrier the flow the the full service
1:29:42carrier part of it was very distinct
1:29:45from the so-called lowcost carrier. Uh
1:29:50at the end of the day, however you may
1:29:52refer to these business models. Mhm. Uh
1:29:57it's all about the
1:30:00price your customers are willing to pay
1:30:03and whether you can fill your plans.
1:30:06Simple. So all models are
1:30:10academic and
1:30:12theoretical that really are irrelevant.
1:30:15But your critiques say
1:30:17that you were competing against other
1:30:20lowc cost carriers like like at that
1:30:23time was it I think Indigo started at
1:30:26that time and Spice started at that
1:30:29time. I think Spice Spice was there on
1:30:31and off. Yeah. But more often than not,
1:30:33so you were competing with lowc cost
1:30:35carriers with their pricing, but you
1:30:37were providing something extra and
1:30:38that's why your business model was
1:30:40bleeding more money than them and you
1:30:42expected that this will turn into loyal
1:30:44customers. But the moment you increase
1:30:46price, people would not fly your CL your
1:30:48flights. Was it was it true? That's what
1:30:51the critics say. They are all aviation
1:30:53experts. I have nothing to say.
1:30:57So where was the problem then? If this
1:30:58was not the problem, then what happened?
1:31:00The problem was the
1:31:01government. The problem was fairly and
1:31:04squarely the government. And I, you
1:31:07know, they've made a lot of political
1:31:09hay out of this. When I used to write to
1:31:11Prime Minister Manm Singh,
1:31:14uh when I used to write uh to to to the
1:31:17civil aviation
1:31:21ministers, ministers of
1:31:26finance, the cost of crude,
1:31:29international crude went to $140 a
1:31:33barrel.
1:31:37The price of aviation turbine fuel in
1:31:40India was directly related to the cost
1:31:44of international crude
1:31:48oil. So you can see that from an average
1:31:51of about $60 a
1:31:53barrel, crude oil went to
1:31:56$140 a
1:31:58barrel with the resultant and equivalent
1:32:02increase in the price of aviation
1:32:03turbine fuel. M the state governments
1:32:07levied and ad valorum sales tax on
1:32:11aviation turbine fuel. So you can
1:32:15yourself now begin to imagine the
1:32:18financial impact on the
1:32:21airline operating where fuel costs are
1:32:25the single largest component of cost. So
1:32:28I
1:32:29pleaded I said look please give aviation
1:32:33termine fuel declared good status so
1:32:37that it attracts central sales tax and
1:32:40not this punitive
1:32:43advalorum state sales tax right because
1:32:47the states are making windfall profits
1:32:52anyway that the government did not do
1:32:55okay aviation
1:32:57is regarded as a capital intensive
1:33:00industry,
1:33:02right? It's acknowledged as such
1:33:04worldwide,
1:33:07right? They would not permit foreign
1:33:11investment. It was sad that only 6
1:33:14months after King Airlines shut, right,
1:33:17that they permitted Ajiad to invest in
1:33:19jet. I had already reached agreement
1:33:23with the CEO of Edihad in Geneva for
1:33:26them to invest in King Fisher which
1:33:28government did not permit. So we could
1:33:30not capitalize the airline through a
1:33:33foreign investor either. Why didn't they
1:33:35allow? They should ask government.
1:33:38Right?
1:33:40So my point
1:33:42is the economy, the
1:33:46circumstances, the government policy
1:33:49then
1:33:51existing all conspired to create a
1:33:54perfect storm through which King Fisher
1:33:58could not survive. I mean that's a sad
1:34:00part of it. If you talk about Kingfisher
1:34:04the
1:34:05concept and UB group's diversification
1:34:09into aviation, I'll answer it in one
1:34:13sentence. The two biggest orders for
1:34:17aircraft in the world today are Air
1:34:20India and Indigo, both Indian
1:34:23carriers. The fastest growing aviation
1:34:26market in the world today is India.
1:34:30Now if you yourself acknowledge that in
1:34:342008 Kingfisher was the largest airline
1:34:36with a 27% market share. Had
1:34:41events not conspired against
1:34:43us.
1:34:46Right? You can imagine where King Fer
1:34:49could potentially have been today.
1:34:52But sadly not all businesses work out.
1:34:55Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
1:34:59While this like 2008 turmoil happened
1:35:03and you had your own challenges with
1:35:05King Fisher, but there were good things
1:35:08in your life which are happening as
1:35:09well. Mhm. One of them being
1:35:12sports. So you you bought IPL team RCB
1:35:17Royal Challenges Bangalore. How did that
1:35:19happen? When did this idea come to you?
1:35:21Were you approached? You approached what
1:35:24was it? Tell me everything about it.
1:35:25Well, I think I've already explained to
1:35:30you the concept behind building a
1:35:33personality for a brand. Mhm. About
1:35:37communicating
1:35:40um marketing
1:35:43u
1:35:45ethos via sporting events, via music
1:35:48events
1:35:50um and various other forms that would be
1:35:52attractive to youngsters.
1:35:57I had just acquired Shawless and one of
1:35:59the biggest brands that I acquired was
1:36:01Royal Challenge
1:36:04Whiskey and I was thinking of ways and
1:36:07means of now taking Royal Challenge
1:36:10whiskey to the next level which required
1:36:13a lot of marketing
1:36:16innovation
1:36:19thinking and at the time the IPL was
1:36:23conceived I was actually sitting on the
1:36:27um BCCI committee as a representative of
1:36:32the Karnataka State Cricket
1:36:34Association and I was very impressed
1:36:36with the pitch that Lalit Modi made to
1:36:40the BCCI committee about this league.
1:36:43Mhm. And of
1:36:45course uh he was working through
1:36:49um jumping through the hoops. BCCI was
1:36:54quite bureaucratic at that time. But
1:36:57nevertheless, he called me one day and
1:36:59said, "Okay, fine. We're ready to go.
1:37:02Teams are going to be auctioned. Are you
1:37:04going to buy?" And I thought to myself,
1:37:06I said, "Wow, in a country where cricket
1:37:09is a
1:37:10religion, what better platform can I
1:37:14have to promote my brands than through
1:37:17an IPL franchise?"
1:37:20And I got greedy. I wanted one for King
1:37:24Fisher. M and one for Royal Challenge,
1:37:28my whiskey brand. Okay. He said, "No,
1:37:30you cannot possibly have
1:37:32two. You can only have
1:37:35one." Anyway, bidding time
1:37:39came
1:37:41and I think I was pretty excited about
1:37:44having an IPL team to promote one of my
1:37:48brands.
1:37:50And so I bid for three franchises. Okay.
1:37:55I lost Mumbai by a very small amount of
1:37:58money. But then that's not surprising
1:38:01that Aman's got it. But anyway, I wound
1:38:05up being the highest bidder for three
1:38:08and I had to choose one. So I obviously
1:38:11chose
1:38:13Bangalore and it then was natural that
1:38:17it would be Royal Challengers Bangalore
1:38:20because the whiskey was Royal Challenge
1:38:22and that's how RCB was born. But it was
1:38:26not a business it was not for the love
1:38:29of cricket. It was more like a business
1:38:32decision that it will help my brands or
1:38:34was it both? This is it. The media
1:38:36narrative will
1:38:37be well vanity project. Vijay Mala loves
1:38:42cricket. He wanted to buy his own team.
1:38:44Yeah.
1:38:45Flamboyance. The usual narrative about
1:38:48me. But the sole purpose always was
1:38:52promotion of the Royal Challenge whiskey
1:38:54brand. So it was very much
1:38:57businessdriven and that's why it was
1:38:59called Royal Challengers. But did it
1:39:01help after that? The whiskey sales went
1:39:03up massively.
1:39:05massively and of course quite apart from
1:39:08it doing its job to promote the whiskey
1:39:11brand the IPL franchise model itself as
1:39:16explained in great detail by Lalith
1:39:19um and which is true now is that the
1:39:22revenues the media revenues is so high
1:39:26the payment of the franchise fee over 10
1:39:28years is over so now there's a
1:39:31significant net profit for every
1:39:34franchisee It's like a very profitable
1:39:36running independent business. So, so
1:39:40much so for it being a vanity project.
1:39:42How much did you buy it for? I think
1:39:45$112 million is what I bid. And that
1:39:48time it would be like 6 700 crores or
1:39:50more than Yeah, I think but but Lit was
1:39:52clever. He everything was denominated in
1:39:55dollars. The bid price was okay. I think
1:39:58112 million which of course people boked
1:40:02at at that time but you know in
1:40:04hindsight if you look at it and do the
1:40:05math it was a top class investment. I
1:40:08mean look at what the teams are worth
1:40:10today. Yeah. I mean there was a billion
1:40:12dollars. You know one thing which was
1:40:14exciting in your pitch in your bid for
1:40:17RCB was Virat Kohli. Virat Kohli under
1:40:2219 you bid for him and you if I'm not
1:40:27wrong you got it for like 20 lakh
1:40:28something correct why did you pick Virat
1:40:31at such a young age well you know
1:40:34obviously there was the young
1:40:37creditors and it was draw by lots
1:40:42right and finally I got lucky so I got
1:40:45to pick and I immediately went for Vart
1:40:51you know, I mean, I looked just I
1:40:54think shortly before the actual um
1:40:59selection
1:41:01process there, they were playing the
1:41:03under9 World Cup and I was very
1:41:06impressed and so I picked him and you
1:41:09know it's wonderful 18 years later he's
1:41:11still there. They were just his
1:41:13performance or were you going to see
1:41:15something? Yeah, he was a young kid at
1:41:18that time when I got him. But you know,
1:41:20full of energy, great
1:41:23talent and you know, one of the greatest
1:41:26Indian cricketers ever. If you had the
1:41:28choice to pick two or three players from
1:41:30other teams for RCB today, who would you
1:41:32pick? If dreams could come
1:41:35true, just brea.
1:41:39Yeah. if dreams
1:41:42could come
1:41:45true. Uh Surya Kumar
1:41:51Yadav Visha
1:41:55Pant Rahul if I had these
1:41:58four I wouldn't need anybody else and
1:42:02definitely win the trophy.
1:42:05And do you think this year even when you
1:42:07don't have these four you would the RCB
1:42:10line trophy this year the RCB lineup is
1:42:13pretty balanced
1:42:16um top class batting lineup
1:42:20uh a much improved bowling lineup
1:42:24um I haven't seen Bhuvar Kumar play in
1:42:28RCB colors yet but you know he's a top
1:42:30class bowler
1:42:33um but as a unit I can say it's a pretty
1:42:36balanced unit and now it all depends on
1:42:41onfield performance. You know this year
1:42:44the captain Rajat he's from my city he's
1:42:48from my neighborhood. Oh like like he
1:42:51was literally like two houses away from
1:42:53my house Rajat Partidar. So this year
1:42:55even though I'm not I support Mumbai but
1:42:59this year I'm still voting for RCB and
1:43:02I'm like okay let let Rajett win the
1:43:04trophy.
1:43:05Okay. But it you know it occurs to me
1:43:09that RCB never winning the cup has
1:43:13actually worked in the RCB favor. Do you
1:43:15think so? In what way? In cult
1:43:17following. No. Even though you guys have
1:43:20like the RCB has never won. You see that
1:43:24is because the day
1:43:27RCB was conceived
1:43:30we have had a comprehensive program of
1:43:35fan engagement.
1:43:37Okay. Right. We've had event I mean the
1:43:39the the IPL window is 2 months but we
1:43:43have had activation program stretching
1:43:46over all 12 months. Keep the RCB fans
1:43:50engaged. So it is once again a a
1:43:54three-cut marketing strategy and fan
1:43:58engagement strategy which has worked.
1:44:00That's why we have such extreme loyalty
1:44:05that win or lose the chant of RCB is
1:44:08always there. Give me an example of the
1:44:09marketing trick here. So many I mean you
1:44:12you watch the activations of RCB
1:44:14longevity right? You
1:44:17remember LA?
1:44:20Yeah. Remember? Yeah.
1:44:23Lao. When was this conceived?
1:44:27You don't know. Well, let me tell you.
1:44:311996 World Cup of crickets. The
1:44:34Kingfisher West Indies cricket team. Now
1:44:37back in
1:44:391996 I put the Kingfisher logo on the
1:44:43West Indies not Indian cricket team.
1:44:48Okay. And because why? The personalities
1:44:51of the West Indian
1:44:53cricketers fun dancing music their
1:44:57entire swagger that suited the
1:45:00Kingfisher brand. That was when the
1:45:03jingle was conceived which lives on till
1:45:06today.
1:45:07It's
1:45:082025. Yeah. Wow. It was conceived before
1:45:12I was born and I still remember
1:45:15it. So you see you have been king of
1:45:19marketing. You have done so many
1:45:21marketing cakes, right? Was the Formula
1:45:241 also a marketing stint for King
1:45:27Fisher? See, I told you earlier that
1:45:30I've always had racing in my blood. I've
1:45:33always loved racing cars.
1:45:36I was then involved with the motorsports
1:45:39clubs in India. I was chairman of the
1:45:42federation of motorsports clubs of India
1:45:45uh for many years and the job of the
1:45:49federation was basically to promote
1:45:51motorsports in India. Now for anybody
1:45:54who is into motor racing the absolute
1:45:57pinnacle of motorsport in the world is
1:45:59Formula 1.
1:46:01right now. What is Formula 1 all around?
1:46:05The image of Formula 1, big box,
1:46:08glamour,
1:46:11uh, seriously competitive racing divided
1:46:14by hundreds of a second, full of
1:46:16excitement, etc., etc., etc. All the
1:46:20attributes I have employed in different
1:46:22ways for my
1:46:24brands and plus being a motor racing
1:46:28enthusiast, right?
1:46:31It was a
1:46:33dream to have a team on the F1 grid. So
1:46:37when the opportunity presented itself, I
1:46:39did
1:46:41it right. I did
1:46:44it. Now I named it Force India. I could
1:46:49have easily named it Malaya Formula 1
1:46:52like Williams Formula 1 for instance,
1:46:55right? But why did you keep Force One?
1:46:57because I wanted the Indian flag to be
1:46:59on the
1:47:00grid. I wanted the world to know that
1:47:04the team with roots in India of all
1:47:07countries was at the pinnacle of
1:47:10motorsport and that is why I called it
1:47:12force India and I had the triricolor on
1:47:16the
1:47:18car. Of course I also use the platform
1:47:22to advertise my brands. Yeah. Okay.
1:47:24including Royal Challenge Whiskey, White
1:47:27and Mai which we owned at that time,
1:47:30King Fisher, then the airline. So the
1:47:34car, deliver the delivery of the car and
1:47:35all the merchandise around Formula 1 had
1:47:38a lot of our brands on it for
1:47:40promotional purposes. But the core
1:47:42reason was to put an Indian Formula 1
1:47:45team on the grid. But you invested quite
1:47:49a money quite a lot of money on it,
1:47:51right? Sure, I did. I mean, Formula 1's
1:47:53not cheap. Do you think that was bad
1:47:54decision? No. In hindsight, I wouldn't
1:47:57do anything different. Why not? Because
1:48:01why not? Because you had to sell it,
1:48:04right? And I think a lot of accusations
1:48:06are for the same brand. Whose
1:48:08accusations about what? That you use
1:48:10King Fisher money for Formula 1 and
1:48:12nobody talks about it. Nobody talks
1:48:14about that.
1:48:15Have you spoken about it before and
1:48:17still people do? I've never Why should
1:48:18I? As I told you, I don't want to waste
1:48:20my time
1:48:23correcting the barrage of narratives
1:48:26coming from Legacy Media.
1:48:29But then you sold Force One. Yes. Force
1:48:31One became Racing Point. Yes. You sold
1:48:34it to Lawrence. Aston Martin Formula 1.
1:48:36Yeah. Why did you sell it to Lawrence?
1:48:39Well, I had to at that time because of
1:48:41my worldwide freezing orders and the
1:48:43troubles that Sahara was going through
1:48:46and so on and so forth. So you know at
1:48:48the end of the day I would have
1:48:49definitely kept it but it was not to be.
1:48:52So fine you you move on in life but I
1:48:56had 10 years of the Indian flag on the
1:48:58Formula 1
1:49:00grid. Talking about another marketing
1:49:03stint because there was cricket, there
1:49:06was Formula 1, there was Kingfisher
1:49:09calendar. It was so highly talked about.
1:49:11What was the story behind Kingfisher
1:49:13calendar? Atul Kazbaker came to me and
1:49:16said fine let's you know there's a
1:49:18Pirelli calendar um why can't we create
1:49:21a similar property for kingfisher
1:49:23absolutely and so we said fine we'll
1:49:26have the kingfisher swimsuit calendar
1:49:29uh we couldn't go sort of kind of all
1:49:32the way that Felli might have been able
1:49:34to given the social considerations in
1:49:37India and so on so forth but I think um
1:49:40we we we we produced a product that
1:49:43everybody demanded. I mean even today I
1:49:46get SMSes from people where's my
1:49:48calendar. Um so it was highly sought
1:49:51after
1:49:52uh and once again we we had events
1:49:55around it. We had the national uh hunt
1:49:57for the king fisher girl and that was
1:50:00national. So we broad-based it and we
1:50:03chose models through a national hunt and
1:50:06then of course we'd have events
1:50:09uh around the calendar shooting the
1:50:13calendar and then launching the calendar
1:50:16all of which was consistent with the
1:50:19brand positioning and marketing strategy
1:50:22of Kingfisher.
1:50:24And why do you think
1:50:26that girls who were who became or who
1:50:30landed on the calendar their career
1:50:32skyrocketed? Well, because we chose the
1:50:34right girls. I mean whether it was
1:50:37Deepika Pardon, whether it was Katrina
1:50:40KF, I mean we we had all the the the
1:50:45heroins and the the
1:50:47uh the
1:50:48stars uh on the calendar in their
1:50:52younger days. But they were not stars
1:50:54back then. They became after. We picked
1:50:56Well, we picked the right talent. Did
1:50:59you also help them after the calendar or
1:51:01it was just the engagement was only? I
1:51:03came with the calendar and that was it.
1:51:05I did it because it was a fantastic
1:51:08marketing
1:51:09tool. Didn't bring anything to me
1:51:11personally, but it did wonders for the
1:51:14brand. The same thing with the Mcdal
1:51:17marketing campaigns. Right. Okay.
1:51:23Talking about fast cars, I've always
1:51:26been passionate about cars, right?
1:51:30And I have owned good cars, but not a
1:51:35fleet of them. In
1:51:37India, I had a couple of Mercedes cars,
1:51:41one Rolls-Royce, and one Mayback. That
1:51:44was it. That was all I possessed. But
1:51:47you have one of the largest car
1:51:48collections of vintage cars and stuff,
1:51:50right? We're talking we're talking
1:51:51talking about vintage cars, which is a
1:51:54totally different ball
1:51:57game because of
1:52:00our nationwide presence on the
1:52:04ground. I
1:52:06told my
1:52:09people, "Look for vintage
1:52:11cars because they were hugely neglected.
1:52:18Many many cars went to India in the 20s
1:52:21and 30s. The Maharajas in India were
1:52:26probably the biggest
1:52:28customers for famous cars such as
1:52:33Rolls-Royce. But these cars were in a
1:52:35state of ruin. Given my inherent
1:52:37interest in
1:52:39cars, I said I want to collect these and
1:52:41restore them, which I did. I mean in
1:52:45those
1:52:47days I have bought a Rolls-Royce for
1:52:5050,000
1:52:51rupees with a tree growing through it in
1:52:54somebody's
1:52:55backyard deep in
1:52:59Talangalana. I have bought cars that
1:53:02have been rusted, parts missing, etc.,
1:53:05etc., etc., all of which I lovingly
1:53:08restored over a period of time. That is
1:53:11my passion for cars and those cars still
1:53:15exist. Of course you you can't export
1:53:18them because that's a government of
1:53:19India policy. So they are in India.
1:53:23Tell me tell me about the top three cars
1:53:26which you absolutely loved out of your
1:53:29collection from the vintage cars back
1:53:31then which you owned maybe in England or
1:53:33in India or anywhere. Yeah. No, in in in
1:53:36India, I had uh I think a 1931 PS arrow,
1:53:40which is a fantastic American car
1:53:43uh and which I took to
1:53:46Singapore. I entered a Singapore to
1:53:48Malaysia rally and won it and very
1:53:52proudly flew back on an Air India flight
1:53:55with a big trophy in my hand. That was
1:53:57one of my favorite cars. I um have a
1:54:03Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost that was
1:54:07supposedly owned by the Nisam of
1:54:09Hyderabad with a very unique body on it.
1:54:12Uh that's a special
1:54:15car. I um have I think a 1903
1:54:20Darak which looks more like a horsedrawn
1:54:23garage. It's French with a single
1:54:25cylinder engine still runs. So yeah,
1:54:29these were some of the unique ones which
1:54:32u were personal favorites. Let's put it
1:54:35that way. What's the most ridiculously
1:54:38expensive thing you have bought in your
1:54:39life? It depends what I
1:54:43mean. You're talking about a car, you're
1:54:46talking about painting, you're talking
1:54:50about property.
1:54:52Give me example of one each.
1:54:56No, I mean
1:54:58look uh I have a family trust set up by
1:55:01my father that you know uh has acquired
1:55:05various properties in different parts of
1:55:07the
1:55:08world. The media said I had over 20
1:55:13properties probably one in each country
1:55:15I went to which is once again hugely
1:55:19erroneous
1:55:21exaggeration. Yeah, sure. I have
1:55:23properties in England, properties in
1:55:26America where my kids live. I had a
1:55:29lovely property in France, which you
1:55:33rightly pointed out
1:55:36uh owned through Gizmo, which is a
1:55:38holding
1:55:40company. Uh yeah. And then when I had uh
1:55:44the big brewery business in South
1:55:46Africa, we had a home in Cape Town which
1:55:51was sold when the business was sold
1:55:52because I had no reason to keep going
1:55:55there. That's about it. And you talk
1:55:59about one of your houses which was very
1:56:01spoken about actually two of them. Yeah.
1:56:03One is that big bungalow which is above
1:56:08which is in India at the King Fisher
1:56:09Tower. Bangalore Bangalore. started it
1:56:13started off as a joke. Okay. What story
1:56:16behind it? The brewery
1:56:17house which is the bungalow was on that
1:56:20piece of land for over 100
1:56:22years. That's where I grew up in that
1:56:26bungalow. That's where my father lived.
1:56:30And so when these developers came
1:56:35and asked me that that land should be
1:56:40developed and that it would be very
1:56:43beneficial for the
1:56:44company and that there was a huge profit
1:56:49potential. I said, you know, I should
1:56:51put the company
1:56:53first and unlock the value and the
1:56:56potential rather than be
1:56:58uh selfish and say no, I'm not
1:57:01moving. So in a joking way, I said to
1:57:05Van
1:57:06Razak of prestige, very dear friend of
1:57:09mine, top man. I said
1:57:13by if you lift this building and put it
1:57:17on top of the tower you want to build
1:57:19I'll agree. He says okay that's what
1:57:21we'll deliver that's what they did.
1:57:26Wow. What what is there in inside the
1:57:28house? I always wonder every time I go
1:57:30to Bangalore. It's unfinished. It's
1:57:32unfinished because it's embroiled in
1:57:34this UBL liquidation controversy right
1:57:37now. But you know given that the the
1:57:42banks are settled and I think UBHL
1:57:46should come out of liquidation and be
1:57:49restored to its shareholders which is
1:57:50what I'm working on
1:57:53now. Was this also a reason why because
1:57:57you marketed so well and you marketed at
1:58:01the place or with the tools which were
1:58:04very very public in nature very loud in
1:58:06nature. There was a line which I read in
1:58:09a newspaper which said you were a show
1:58:12you are a showman and your father was a
1:58:15businessman. Is that is that why people
1:58:17misunderstand you because of the nature
1:58:20of your My father was a
1:58:22businessman and I
1:58:24really am not concerned about being
1:58:27referred to as a
1:58:29showman because the showman created the
1:58:32world's largest alcoholic beverage
1:58:36company which my father as a businessman
1:58:38would have loved to see.
1:58:41Do you think your
1:58:42father if he was here with you things
1:58:46would have been different for you? You
1:58:47would not land in this? Absolutely not.
1:58:51Absolutely not. I mean if you
1:58:56see what I've been
1:58:59through, it's
1:59:01illogical. It is a sustained campaign
1:59:04and a sustained attack on the
1:59:07government's favorite poster boy.
1:59:11Right now whether my dad was around or
1:59:13not would not change anything what has
1:59:16been attempted and what has been done
1:59:19till
1:59:20now the
1:59:22government officially recognizing and
1:59:25admitting that 14,100 crores has been
1:59:28recovered. Okay. Let's go to a point
1:59:30where when we were talking about earlier
1:59:33about the kingfisher turmoil you said
1:59:36you went to the FM back then. Mhm. which
1:59:39was Pranav Mukharji
1:59:42sir. What happened after that meeting?
1:59:45He said that banks will support you. Is
1:59:47that the reason why a government bank
1:59:49supported you? It was not one government
1:59:51bank. It was a group of about 15 or 16
1:59:54government banks. Kingfisher Airlines
1:59:58never borrowed any money from State Bank
2:00:01of India. Just to set the record
2:00:04straight. Okay. State Bank of India was
2:00:06a lender to
2:00:08Dean. When King Fisher and Dean
2:00:12merged, State Bank of India became a
2:00:15lender to King Fisher Alliance. But it
2:00:18started with Dean. So like that there
2:00:21were a group of banks from whom King
2:00:22Fisher had borrowed money. A group of
2:00:25banks from whom Dean had borrowed money
2:00:29and then they got combined into one
2:00:31entity when Dean and King Fisher merged.
2:00:35Right. Yes. There were times when the
2:00:39the the sort of support from the finance
2:00:42minister at that time meant that you
2:00:45know when I presented to various banks
2:00:48including state bank that you know the
2:00:50airline needed money they would
2:00:52recognize
2:00:54um uh our financial needs appraise them
2:00:57correctly through state bank of India
2:01:00capital markets and then sanction loans
2:01:03even though the
2:01:05creditworthiness uh of Kingpisher
2:01:07Airlines may have been short of norms.
2:01:11To that extent, I'm grateful. Yes. But
2:01:14then, you know, I did my bit as well. I
2:01:17put in 3,000 crores of UB group's money
2:01:21into King Fisher Allies. You're talking
2:01:24to me about allegations of siphoning.
2:01:27You're talking to me about allegations
2:01:29of misusing Kingfisher Airlines funds
2:01:32from my lifestyle for Formula 1. Nobody
2:01:36ever talks about that 3,000 crores I
2:01:38infused in cash into King Fisher
2:01:41Airlines to keep it afloat.
2:01:43my good friend and uh you know probably
2:01:46the most successful lady entrepreneur
2:01:49I've known she's like a sister to me
2:01:52Kiran Mazumar has often said publicly
2:01:55that Vijay put everything on the line
2:01:57for king I did but that's not
2:02:01appreciated that is not
2:02:03appreciated that's sad but let the
2:02:06narrative be what it is see you put
2:02:09everything you had into reviving King
2:02:13Fisher Airlines because you believed in
2:02:14the vision. Mhm.
2:02:15Right. But at the time when you asked
2:02:18loans
2:02:20uh the company was not doing that great.
2:02:22Correct. Right. So you but you still got
2:02:25loan from the consortium of 17 banks.
2:02:28Correct.
2:02:30The reason was they believed in your
2:02:31vision or the reason that they were
2:02:34influenced by the by the government to
2:02:36give you the loan. Yeah. They believed
2:02:38in the vision. They did their own
2:02:41appraisals.
2:02:43Right. And please never forget I gave my
2:02:45personal guarantee and United Breweries
2:02:49Holdings Limited also gave its personal
2:02:52guarantee. If anybody
2:02:55had okay bad intentions, if anybody had
2:03:00intentions to divert money, siphon
2:03:04money, steal money, could
2:03:06anybody put themselves on a line with a
2:03:09personal guarantee? Think about it. So
2:03:13all this narrative of
2:03:20chore that is why I say in the last 9
2:03:24years I haven't bothered about changing
2:03:27this narrative because it is what it is.
2:03:30It's written by the Indian
2:03:33media of course prompted by the
2:03:36government who have had their own press
2:03:39conferences etc. I mean Samit Patra, the
2:03:42BJP spokesman called a press conference
2:03:46and bandied around in front of the
2:03:48Indian media letters that I had written
2:03:50to Prime Minister Manuan Singh trying to
2:03:53establish a
2:03:54nexus right between me and the prime
2:03:57minister and alleging some sort of
2:04:00wrongdoing by the then Congress
2:04:03um prime minister. I mean one could see
2:04:06through the political
2:04:08rhetoric straight away. Why wouldn't any
2:04:12Indian citizen write to the prime
2:04:14minister for help?
2:04:17Fair because I never asked for money. I
2:04:21asked only for policy changes. Let's go
2:04:24to the series of events after this. What
2:04:27happened? What happened? So I'm
2:04:31quoting just pure research. Okay. Of
2:04:34quoting whom? quoting pure research of
2:04:37what's out there on all the newspapers.
2:04:40So you got a loan from banks and usually
2:04:46the normal nature of providing such big
2:04:50loans is people take people give you
2:04:53this kind of loan against
2:04:55collateral and in this case bank took
2:04:58brand name of king fisher as collateral
2:05:00and gave you the loan. One of the
2:05:01collaterals. One of the collateral. What
2:05:03were the other collaterals? Several
2:05:05other stocks, shares, property. So
2:05:08stocks and shares, shares, property and
2:05:11stock and shares which is again quoted
2:05:15at that time were at the price of
2:05:173839 but banks got it at 68.69. You talk
2:05:21about Kingfisher Alliance shares. Yeah.
2:05:23What about all the other shares of UBL
2:05:26and USL?
2:05:28Nobody talks about that. But they where
2:05:30do you think they got this 14,000 crores
2:05:33from? I'm talking about back then like
2:05:35one minute they have sold assets and
2:05:38realized 14,100 crores. Yeah. Large part
2:05:42of which were my shares.
2:05:45So you have only focused on brand value.
2:05:48You've forgotten about the shares.
2:05:51No, I'm suggested wait a minute. I never
2:05:54suggested that the brand value would
2:05:57generate 14,000 crores. my shares that
2:06:00were
2:06:01pledged. So there's your answer to all
2:06:04this
2:06:06narrative. So you're saying that I'm not
2:06:09saying it's fact. No. So the the facts
2:06:11are what you are quoting is they took
2:06:15shares of King Visher Airlines at the
2:06:17double price because they were also
2:06:20getting shares of UB. Mhm. That's why
2:06:23there was some kind of negotiation which
2:06:24was played on. No, no. It is a multiple
2:06:27basket of securities.
2:06:30But still, why would a bank twice the
2:06:33share price? Look, nobody dreams up a
2:06:37share value.
2:06:39Okay, they were
2:06:41professional merchant bankers including
2:06:43State Bank of India, capital markets
2:06:45involved. They arrived at a share value.
2:06:50The part of the loan package was that
2:06:52King Fisher's shares in the airline
2:06:55itself needed to be pledged to the
2:06:58banks. But that was all not the only
2:07:00pledge. It was part of a basket. But
2:07:04then the media chose to focus only on
2:07:07that. So I would like to ask the legacy
2:07:10media where did the 14,000 crores come
2:07:12from? But you made such a halaboo about
2:07:17share price of Kingfisher Airlines.
2:07:19Now you see, now do you
2:07:23see how people pick and choose to
2:07:26discredit
2:07:29you? Isn't it pretty evident? Okay. So
2:07:33then this happened again. A business
2:07:35decision by banks. They did everything.
2:07:37There was no influence
2:07:39involved. It was pure play business
2:07:41decision by a bank between you and the
2:07:44banks. You should ask
2:07:46them this question. You lent the money
2:07:49on what basis you lend the money they
2:07:52should answer the question I'm the
2:07:55receiver first of all and let me clarify
2:07:58here when you keep saying you borrowed I
2:08:01never borrowed one na pisa vijay mallaya
2:08:05has never borrowed a single rupee from
2:08:08anybody
2:08:09ever it was king fisher airlines the
2:08:12running company that borrowed I was a
2:08:16guarantor there's a big difference and
2:08:19then the money came in but you still
2:08:22Kingfish Airlines was still bleeding
2:08:24whatever the case may be I also put
2:08:263,000 crores you put in 3,000 crores you
2:08:28put in everything and you tried to
2:08:31revive it and then one series of event
2:08:34happened
2:08:35where there was a non-payment of the oil
2:08:39bills and that's why the oil companies
2:08:41as started asking you for advanced money
2:08:43and that shaked you a little bit more
2:08:46yeah the working capital cycle got
2:08:48disrupted. M natural. Then there was
2:08:52another series of event that Kingfisher
2:08:56Airlines was not able to pay the airport
2:08:58fees, the landing charges. Listen, when
2:09:00a company goes through a cash flow
2:09:02issue, it affects everybody. Yeah. You
2:09:06cannot isolate one particular creditor
2:09:08or vendor.
2:09:11No. So I'm coming if there's a cash
2:09:13shortage. Okay. It's across the board. H
2:09:16so across the board then there were
2:09:18catering companies which were affected
2:09:20there was no food everybody after one by
2:09:22one one by one there was non-payment of
2:09:24certain things cash flow issue did you
2:09:28at any point did you think that this not
2:09:30going to work you were still pushing you
2:09:32still push I was pushing I was
2:09:34pushing in the hope that the foreign
2:09:38investment that I had already
2:09:40negotiated was going to
2:09:42fractify which I had already agreed
2:09:46right with James
2:09:49Hogan. But the permission never came. It
2:09:53was
2:09:54sad and I guess my misfortune that 6
2:09:59months after King Fisher collapsed in
2:10:01October 2012 that the same Ethi was
2:10:04granted permission to invest in Jedways.
2:10:07Okay. Then another thing happened. Okay.
2:10:10So you were expecting all of this would
2:10:12happen.
2:10:13You asked your people, your staff, your
2:10:17employees to wait. Mhm. That the money
2:10:20will come in.
2:10:22Yeah. But they were not paid. The staff
2:10:24was not paid. Sadly, no. Right. Mhm. But
2:10:29there's again a statement that your
2:10:31international employees were getting
2:10:32paid. Indian employees were not. Mhm.
2:10:35And the reason is that because
2:10:37internationally you would have held
2:10:38accountable in India, you could get away
2:10:40with anything. Was that the reason? I
2:10:42didn't know that. But why were you
2:10:44paying international employees and not
2:10:46yours? It's very simple. The money was
2:10:48available through ticket collections in
2:10:51England. Because money was available,
2:10:54staff salaries were paid. In India, the
2:10:58High Court of Karnataka had frozen over
2:11:00260 crores worth of
2:11:03cash. Okay. Now, I'd like to focus on
2:11:06this non-payment of salaries. There has
2:11:09been a hell of a lot spoken about it.
2:11:14All
2:11:16right. Which has pained me no end. It
2:11:20has seriously pained
2:11:22me in my track record as chairman of UB
2:11:27group. I would ask anyone to check on
2:11:32how I cared for my
2:11:36employees. I was proud of the care that
2:11:39I gave to my employees.
2:11:42Why would it be different for King
2:11:43Fisher
2:11:47employees? The company in India had no
2:11:50money. There was UB's money of 260
2:11:54crores in the bank with the sorry with
2:11:57the bank under the control of the
2:11:59government of Karnataka.
2:12:01We applied officially and formally to
2:12:05the IC court please release the sal
2:12:09money to pay the
2:12:12salaries. Court said no. Why? The same
2:12:17banks
2:12:19objected. The same public sector banks
2:12:22objected.
2:12:25Why? Why? Because they said that money
2:12:29belongs to them. because the company had
2:12:31defaulted in payments. But as far as I
2:12:35was
2:12:36concerned, I asked the court, please
2:12:40release those monies to pay the employee
2:12:42salaries. The banks objected, the courts
2:12:45refused.
2:12:47But you personally took salary from
2:12:49Kingfish Airlines 33 crores a year. No,
2:12:52no, no. I took salary of 33 crores a
2:12:56year. I wish. Why do they talk about it?
2:12:59Who talks? Show me the balance sheet
2:13:00where it's written.
2:13:03Can you show me? Not the balance sheet,
2:13:05but the media talks about it. I can show
2:13:06you an article. Ask the media where's
2:13:08the balance sheet. So, you never took
2:13:09salary? I never took 33 crores of
2:13:12salary. Or did you take any salary when
2:13:14other people were not getting paid?
2:13:15Obviously
2:13:18not. I mean, you really think I'd pay
2:13:21myself to the exclusion of other less
2:13:26wellto-do employees? That's what the
2:13:28world thinks. That's
2:13:31unfortunate view of the world about
2:13:33me which is sadly completely false. But
2:13:38then they all were on the road striking
2:13:39against you if you would have spoken to
2:13:42them in a nicer way probably. I don't
2:13:44know spoken to them try to explain to
2:13:47them but at the end of the day they did
2:13:51what they thought was best. They were
2:13:54under stress. I respect that. I'm not
2:13:56blaming
2:13:57anybody. Okay. A couple of people have
2:14:00said some nasty things which is fine if
2:14:04they are under
2:14:05pressure and their livelihood was under
2:14:08pressure. I fully understand that and I
2:14:11take it in my stride. But the fact any
2:14:14suggestion that I willfully did not pay
2:14:18or that I ignored them and enriched
2:14:21myself in the process is completely
2:14:24false.
2:14:25While all of this was happening,
2:14:27something really tragic
2:14:29happened. One of your employees wife
2:14:33committed a suicide because they were
2:14:35not able to pay themselves. Were you
2:14:37aware of that? I became aware of that
2:14:39and upon investigation
2:14:43um that was the culmination of a
2:14:46longstanding
2:14:48dispute, marital dispute.
2:14:52It was convenient to blame it on King
2:14:53Fisher Airlines and non-payment of
2:14:55salaries. Once again, when people are
2:14:58under stress and under unpleasant
2:15:00circumstances, I don't want to um
2:15:03comment on it uh in an unsavory way. It
2:15:07would not be right on my part. I mean,
2:15:10my sympathies are with the family that
2:15:13um, you know,
2:15:15lost one of their kin, but I can tell
2:15:19you that we investigated the matter and
2:15:25okay, sadly, the tragedy did happen. Uh,
2:15:29and yes, sadly, equally sadly, that
2:15:32family had not been paid their salary.
2:15:37If you'd like to blame it on on me,
2:15:39fine. I'll take the blame. As I said,
2:15:41I'm not afraid of taking blame where
2:15:45blame is due. Now, I can face up to
2:15:48reality and truth.
2:15:52Did you feel like you should have said
2:15:53sorry to employees?
2:15:56Because you were not condolence letters
2:15:59for Yeah, but I didn't copy the media.
2:16:04I wrote a letter of condolence, but I
2:16:06didn't copy the media.
2:16:11You know, here was here was what pissed
2:16:12people off that in your private life,
2:16:16you were enjoying.
2:16:18You were buying the Tu Sultan swad. You
2:16:21were buying cars in the UK. The value of
2:16:25a Tipu Sultan sword would not have paid
2:16:27salaries.
2:16:29The two MercedesBenz cars, the figment
2:16:32of people's imagination, would not have
2:16:34paid the salaries.
2:16:37And if your suggestion is that I should
2:16:39have laid low in some artificial
2:16:43way, forget the
2:16:47employees, forget the
2:16:49shareholders of all the other
2:16:51businesses, United Spirits, United
2:16:54Breweries, MCF,
2:16:57everybody really. That would have been
2:17:00very fair, isn't it?
2:17:06and
2:17:07behave behave in a manner where my only
2:17:12asset and liability in life was
2:17:14kingfisher airlines I had nothing
2:17:18else that's the way I should have
2:17:21behaved
2:17:22right what about the salaries of the
2:17:25other employees of the other group
2:17:27companies what about the shareholders of
2:17:29those
2:17:31companies what about the future of those
2:17:33companies and the management of those
2:17:35companies. So sadly if one company
2:17:38fails, is it your suggestion that the
2:17:41whole group must fail?
2:17:44No, definitely not.
2:17:46Okay. Everybody loves to talk about the
2:17:50failure of King Airlines and of
2:17:52course pin me the blame on me
2:17:56personally. Forget about everything
2:17:58else. It is Vijay Malia's failure. Vijay
2:18:00Malia's failure. Vijay Malaka Chi, Vijay
2:18:03Malaka Fraud, everything is Vijay
2:18:05Mallaya. Fine. What
2:18:09about United Spirits Limited, United
2:18:12Breweries Limited from where it started
2:18:16to where I left
2:18:18off and the wealth creation in the hands
2:18:22of
2:18:23shareholders and the wealth creation in
2:18:25the hands of
2:18:27employees probably amongst the highest
2:18:29in India in the corporate sector
2:18:32highest all
2:18:34forgotten nobody even refers to it. King
2:18:38Fisher Island
2:18:42Malaya that's it the narrative begins
2:18:46there ends
2:18:49there. Do you think if you would have
2:18:53done things differently probably this
2:18:55side of you would have been more
2:18:56celebrated than the side which has
2:18:59gotten once the media
2:19:02started beginning with one particular
2:19:05channel whose anchor is
2:19:07known
2:19:09right to shout the house
2:19:13down
2:19:14right what did I start by saying vija I
2:19:17want to see you eating jail
2:19:20food. I want to see you in jail clothes,
2:19:23etc.,
2:19:24etc. Started from there. Everybody had
2:19:27to jump on the
2:19:31bandwagon. I think in the same time,
2:19:34because we're talking about events,
2:19:36somebody
2:19:37mentioned that you took out 35
2:19:42million and invested in buying
2:19:45properties in France. Rubbish. some with
2:19:49some uh dummy company called I think
2:19:52Gizmo holding or something like that.
2:19:54Tell me if I had siphoned King Fer money
2:19:59to such an extent as people suggest
2:20:04how would the LN
2:20:08run on the bank's own admission on the
2:20:11debt recovery tribunal's own admission
2:20:154,999 crores was a debt
2:20:18right rest is all
2:20:22interest. His suggestions are that I
2:20:24have stolen or misused most of that or
2:20:28all of it. How would the aine
2:20:34fly if all the money borrowed from the
2:20:37banks Vijay Malia pocketed? How would
2:20:38the aine fly?
2:20:45So all these
2:20:47allegations and false narratives being
2:20:50painted by people, if you analyze them,
2:20:53they make no
2:20:56sense. What also is not making sense to
2:20:58me is when the government said that
2:21:02they're going to support you in 2008,
2:21:05the FM said that they'll provide the
2:21:07loan, which they probably did with the
2:21:11banks. Mhm.
2:21:14Later in
2:21:162011, the union minister of the same
2:21:18government objection like he started or
2:21:22they started objecting that you were not
2:21:24paying even taxes 150 cr was spending
2:21:27and they started putting you in the
2:21:29public eye. They were
2:21:32aras areas.
2:21:35Nobody is disputing that. But compare my
2:21:39areas with their India's areas.
2:21:45Air India's areas were probably 10 times
2:21:47that of Kingfisher Airlines. That was
2:21:50because of the stress of the aviation
2:21:54sector. And why did Air India didn't get
2:21:58anything and you got everything every
2:22:02little every little scrutiny happened
2:22:04with you if Air India was in trouble
2:22:06more than you which actually was the
2:22:08case. It's a fact. Yeah, it's a fact.
2:22:10They were in more they were in a more
2:22:13daunting situation than yours like the
2:22:15airline. Yeah, but all the focus was
2:22:17only King for sure. Why? You should ask
2:22:21those that why do you think turned on
2:22:23the spotlights? Why do you think it
2:22:26happened?
2:22:27Clearly combination of animosity,
2:22:32jealousy, whole bunch of factors and you
2:22:35know once again unproductive things to
2:22:37to think about you know in life think
2:22:40positive.
2:22:42Come on it costed you a whole life in
2:22:45India. You must have thought about it
2:22:47hundreds of times. No I'm not. In any
2:22:51case, since
2:22:521988, I've been going to India for less
2:22:55than 180 days in a
2:22:57year. All my three children are American
2:23:00citizens. All have lived outside India,
2:23:02never in India. My mother has been in
2:23:05this country for over 30 years. What do
2:23:08I go back
2:23:09to? Of course, I will get the most
2:23:12ceremonial welcome by the Indian media.
2:23:15Of course, sure I will. My goodness,
2:23:16it'll be headlines of every single
2:23:18newspaper. Okay. Okay. So 2012 the
2:23:20airline got suspended. Non-payment of
2:23:23multiple things, working capital, cash
2:23:25flow, everything got really really bad
2:23:28for you, right? And
2:23:32then the big bash happened, the birthday
2:23:34party which is often talked about in
2:23:372015.
2:23:39Go ahead. What happened between 2012 and
2:23:412015 with this case? What happened? I'm
2:23:44asking you what happened during like did
2:23:46everybody forgot? What did
2:23:49everybody like they were not bothered
2:23:51about Kingfisher Airlines or what were
2:23:52the cases were going on? Of course
2:23:54everything was going on. Nothing
2:23:55stopped. M Nothing stopped because
2:23:58people don't talk about that often. What
2:24:00happened? Like what was going on?
2:24:01Nothing was going on. That's when the
2:24:03willful defaulter and all that. You know
2:24:05what the willful defaulter is all about,
2:24:07right? Tell me what is about what banks
2:24:09call a willful defaulter
2:24:12of somebody who has the money but won't
2:24:14pay. Yeah. That's called a willful
2:24:16deferral. Yeah.
2:24:18Right. I made four settlement offers to
2:24:21the banks between 2012 to 2015. Yes.
2:24:24Which they refused to
2:24:27accept that nobody knows. What was the
2:24:30settlement that you were offering? So
2:24:32many settlement offers including before
2:24:34the
2:24:35court. Right. So it was always the
2:24:37intention to settle. I flew through
2:24:39Hyderabad and met the chairperson of the
2:24:42State Bank of India at their training
2:24:44academy in Hyderabad and offered a
2:24:46settlement. It was always my intention
2:24:48to settle. Never did I say I'm not going
2:24:50to pay.
2:24:54And why do you think they didn't accept
2:24:55it? They wanted 14,100 crores. That's
2:24:59why they didn't accept it then.
2:25:05They didn't want your 5,000 cr because
2:25:07they were expecting it to go up. Like
2:25:09the sale of your assets will be much
2:25:10higher than whatever. Is that
2:25:14Yeah. Had they accepted my offer, they
2:25:17would have got 5,000 crores. Today
2:25:19they've got 14,100 crores. But is there
2:25:22any proof do you have where you offered
2:25:25them settlement and they didn't accept
2:25:27from 2015? The records of the Supreme
2:25:28Court of
2:25:30India. Proof. What better proof than the
2:25:33records of the Supreme Court of India,
2:25:37public documents,
2:25:43so let's say you offered Yeah. nothing
2:25:46happened. Nobody, not even a needle
2:25:50moved. It just kept going on. It kept
2:25:53getting
2:25:54worse. And you knew this trouble was
2:25:57going on.
2:26:00And in
2:26:012015, apparently according to the media,
2:26:04this is where things went down where you
2:26:07had a grand birthday party. Your 60th
2:26:10birthday party 18th December. Mhm. 2015,
2:26:14right? Correct. What happened in that
2:26:17party? Nothing. It was party
2:26:20that normal party that I had and I've
2:26:23had so many of them over the years.
2:26:27Do you think you wouldn't you shouldn't
2:26:28have done that party or made it so
2:26:30public? But
2:26:32why? Why? Because the whole narrative is
2:26:34against you. You spending see this is
2:26:37what a common person would think. If I
2:26:39was a kingisher employee and I've not
2:26:41gotten paid for XYZ reason, for let's
2:26:44say economic factors, business model,
2:26:47whatever XYZ reason, I'm not getting
2:26:48paid. My livelihood is dependent on
2:26:51this. And then I see the promoter of my
2:26:53company spending millions of dollars or
2:26:55Enrique Glacias to perform for his
2:26:57birthday party. I would get
2:27:01enraged. I want to as an employee at
2:27:04that point if I'm not gotten if I've not
2:27:07gotten paid. I don't understand that
2:27:09there are 50 businesses that you have
2:27:10built. I understand only one thing that
2:27:12the promoter of my company is
2:27:14enjoying on my expense.
2:27:17the I would agree with everything that
2:27:19you said except your
2:27:21last at my
2:27:24expense. The promoter of the I'm talking
2:27:26a common person that's asking fair
2:27:28enough that common person didn't
2:27:30know that upon objection by the same
2:27:33banks a Karnataka high court declined to
2:27:37to agree to drawing readily available
2:27:41cash to pay the
2:27:42salaries.
2:27:44Right. Okay. I agree with you. The
2:27:47suffering employee would have also said
2:27:50the man has United Breweries, United
2:27:52Spirits is none of my
2:27:54business. Right.
2:27:57Right. So I could have been a thorough
2:27:59hypocrite.
2:28:01I could have come here to London and had
2:28:03my party and nobody would have even
2:28:04known,
2:28:08right?
2:28:10Yeah. Would that have solved the
2:28:12problem? No. Okay. But you didn't do
2:28:15that. You did the public party in India.
2:28:17It's not public. Sorry. It was by
2:28:20invitation. But of course, everything
2:28:22that I do is covered by and I paid for
2:28:25it
2:28:26myself. King Fisher Airlines was in no
2:28:28position to
2:28:31pay. I paid for it myself.
2:28:36Maybe in hindsight
2:28:38now, okay, and we're talking about
2:28:40December
2:28:432015 against an airline that shut in
2:28:462012. Mhm. If you're talking about my
2:28:50birthday party in December 18,
2:28:542012, you probably have a more
2:28:56significant point.
2:28:59But three years
2:29:01later in December
2:29:042015, okay, a milestone 60th birthday,
2:29:09right? Still being held against me with
2:29:12such venom. I don't quite get it. But
2:29:16okay, maybe it was a mistake. I should
2:29:19have probably come here to London and
2:29:21had my party and nobody would have
2:29:22known. But once again because I was
2:29:24transparent and lived my life pretty
2:29:27transparently as I always did the media
2:29:29latched on to it and bashed me for it.
2:29:32Fine. So everything in the last 10 or 15
2:29:36minutes maybe more that you are
2:29:39questioning me on are Indian media
2:29:43generated comments and narratives. None
2:29:47of these are facts. But are you not
2:29:49apologetic about what happened?
2:29:50Apologetic. What do I apologize for? For
2:29:54only to the employ like only for the
2:29:58employees of that business. For no one
2:29:59else. After putting 3,000 crores of my
2:30:02own money into the business, I need to
2:30:04apologize.
2:30:06You've been wronged, but so have your
2:30:10employees of King Fisher. What would you
2:30:13say to them who lost their jobs, who
2:30:16still hold angst against
2:30:20you? If you were directly just talking
2:30:22to them and not me, what would you tell
2:30:24them? I would say I'm deeply sorry for
2:30:26what happened to
2:30:27them, I would say, I'm deeply sorry
2:30:30that some of them didn't get paid their
2:30:37salaries. I have no excuses to
2:30:40offer. I take full
2:30:44responsibility. But for those who care
2:30:47to
2:30:49listen, there
2:30:50was money lying in deposit with the
2:30:53Karnataka High
2:30:55Court. I specifically applied to court
2:30:58to pay the salaries of King Shelline
2:31:01staff. The banks objected and the court
2:31:05refused the
2:31:06permission. There was really nothing I
2:31:10could do beyond that. And what would you
2:31:13tell those employees who are still
2:31:14questioning that hey we were in
2:31:18trouble and you tried everything to get
2:31:22that money from the court but it didn't
2:31:26help then why did you go out and party
2:31:30like a king on your 60th birthday when
2:31:32we were suffering
2:31:34uh we need to look at the timeline
2:31:39here airlines shut down
2:31:422012. My 60th birthday was in December
2:31:502015. Right?
2:31:53There was nothing I could do in the
2:31:57interim to find money to pay the staff
2:32:01in
2:32:03particular because any money that could
2:32:06have been infused theoretically would
2:32:09have been taken by the
2:32:11banks because all the assets were
2:32:13frozen. Did your legal advise you not to
2:32:16pay? Absolutely not. I told my legal
2:32:19advisers to find every single avenue to
2:32:22pay and they and it didn't work. They
2:32:25couldn't find a way. But ultimately
2:32:27because of the
2:32:29freezing all the money was lying under
2:32:31the control of the court. So we couldn't
2:32:33touch the money and every penny that you
2:32:35would have infused just for their
2:32:36intention to pay your employees would
2:32:38have still gotten frozen. You see the
2:32:40court order did not differentiate
2:32:43between employees and general corporate
2:32:45purposes.
2:32:48Any money in the account of the airline
2:32:52was
2:32:53frozen. Frozen by the banks, frozen by
2:32:56tax department, frozen by service tax.
2:32:59Everything was
2:33:00frozen. The chunk of available cash was
2:33:03with the court and that was actually
2:33:05cash of UBHL,
2:33:08not Kingfish Airlines cash of United
2:33:11Breweries Holdings Limited, one of the
2:33:13cogntos.
2:33:15UBL said we want to pay King Fel and
2:33:18staff salaries. Please allow us. The
2:33:22banks objected and the court did not
2:33:24give permission. That is
2:33:28fact. They I I would feel very sad if
2:33:32somebody said I had no intention to pay
2:33:35or that I ignored to make the efforts. I
2:33:39made every single effort I could. Are
2:33:41you do you ever feel sorry that you
2:33:44couldn't do anything to give money to
2:33:46the employees?
2:33:48Obviously,
2:33:49but um are you suggesting
2:33:54that I'm not sorry for what happened to
2:33:57King Fischer and the collateral damage
2:34:01that was caused to everybody?
2:34:04I'm asking you, are
2:34:05you? I said I was very sad about the
2:34:09fact that the You were sad but were you
2:34:10sorry about it?
2:34:14Sorry. I apologize publicly to everyone
2:34:18for the failure of King Fisher Airlines.
2:34:20Till today I am willing to apologize. I
2:34:24did my very best. I tried very very
2:34:28hard. I put in my money, blood, sweat,
2:34:31and tears. It didn't work. Sadly, it
2:34:34didn't work. I'm very sorry. At the end
2:34:36of the day,
2:34:37frankly, it's what I think of myself
2:34:40when I look at myself in the mirror in
2:34:42the morning. Have you done good or have
2:34:44you not done good? Are you a success or
2:34:47are you a failure? What is the answer?
2:34:52I'm a big failure according to
2:34:55Indians. Fine. I'm a big failure. But
2:34:59when I look at myself in the mirror, I
2:35:01don't see failure. But does it bother
2:35:03you?
2:35:04Who created
2:35:06one.75 lakh cr of market cap in the in
2:35:10the alcoholic
2:35:13business? Who created it? Even after
2:35:16creating such a behemoth, people think
2:35:19you're a failed business owner. Fair
2:35:20enough. So let Does it bother you? And
2:35:23who made King Fisher Airlines so
2:35:25public? Who made it?
2:35:30Dammania airways started and
2:35:33failed. East West Airlines started and
2:35:36failed,
2:35:38right? Jet Airways eventually
2:35:40failed, right? Modilu started and
2:35:44failed,
2:35:47right? Paramount started and
2:35:51failed. You read about
2:35:53them only King Fisher and
2:35:57Malia. Is that not a targeted attack?
2:36:03Because here's what got crafted after
2:36:05it. Who crafted it? I'll tell you. I'll
2:36:08come to that. Tell me then. So, tell me
2:36:11what about all these other aviation
2:36:13failures? See, nobody cares about them
2:36:16because nobody was as public as you. Ah,
2:36:19so now we're talking that I pay the
2:36:23price for my own public image and the
2:36:25fact that you left the country. Ah
2:36:28that's which is another which is another
2:36:31uh so I'll come to the series of events
2:36:33of these both of them no problem okay
2:36:38so 2015 December this happened before
2:36:42that CBI started investigating you and I
2:36:46appeared before the CBI four times h and
2:36:50CBI concluded their case that they found
2:36:54you siphoning the money was that the
2:36:57completely false. Okay. There is no
2:37:00allegation of money siphoning by CBI.
2:37:03What did CBI conclude? Nothing. That I
2:37:05spent on a private jet which was
2:37:08Kingfish Airlines own assets. Yeah. That
2:37:10I misrepresented to
2:37:12IDBI while taking the loan. Mhm. What
2:37:15did you misrepresent? That I
2:37:18misrepresented. Uh you asked me a
2:37:21question about brand valuation, right?
2:37:23So one of them one of the allegations
2:37:25brand valuation. Was it also bizarre
2:37:27like IDBI gave you loan in just 2 days
2:37:30and on Sunday you got the money
2:37:32transferred in your bank. Yeah. But then
2:37:33they that was a short-term loan. Okay.
2:37:35They got the money back and then they
2:37:37participated in the consortium lending.
2:37:40Okay. Yeah. So but there is no
2:37:42allegation of siphoning money. No. Zero.
2:37:46So there was misrepresentation. Yeah.
2:37:48That's and using that money or using the
2:37:50Kingfisher loan proceedings to buy a
2:37:52private jet. Not private jet was owned
2:37:54by King
2:37:58Airlines. The King Airlines own asset.
2:38:01They said I misused it. I misused it for
2:38:04personal trips.
2:38:06Did
2:38:08you? I think if you see the line of
2:38:11private jets starting from Mr.
2:38:13Aman's
2:38:15in Bombay airport and ask them who uses
2:38:17your jets, you'll get the answer.
2:38:23Come on. Deflecting is not a right way.
2:38:26Deflecting. I'm asking you. What? Did
2:38:29you misuse it? What is misuse? I don't
2:38:33know. Whatever they're quoting, do you
2:38:35agree with it or no? So, you agree with
2:38:36the CBI? No, I'm asking you. Do you
2:38:38agree with it or not? I am not agree
2:38:41with it. Obviously, I don't agree with
2:38:43it. You used it for business purposes
2:38:45only. What do you mean business
2:38:46purposes? If I had to fly on holiday,
2:38:50I'd say private
2:38:57jet. That's what CB had problem with. Is
2:39:01that the case? Yes. That you you you
2:39:03took the Come on. That would not only be
2:39:05the case. Huh? That would be a part of
2:39:08your case. Let's say you This is what
2:39:10I'm saying. The principle one was
2:39:12misrepresentation.
2:39:14Okay. Yeah. So that is first
2:39:16misrepresentation and because of this
2:39:19they issued an
2:39:21LOC they issued LOC right lookout
2:39:24circular to the immigration office that
2:39:27should not leave the country no I'm not
2:39:29aware of any of that okay because then
2:39:31there was a public issuance against in
2:39:342015 where the LOC which was issued for
2:39:38you had few words changed I know nothing
2:39:42about this okay so there
2:39:44And this I'm quoting
2:39:46from again another article where I can
2:39:50show you the article where it's I've
2:39:52never heard of this before. Okay. So the
2:39:54article said that you met with someone
2:39:55really powerful and after that in just
2:39:58few months the lookout circular got
2:40:00changed and the lookout circular changed
2:40:02into okay next time to the immigration
2:40:05off officers that if Vijay Malia comes
2:40:08to the airport and want to leave the
2:40:10country you need to inform us where is
2:40:13he going and for what purposes you don't
2:40:16need to stop him but earlier the
2:40:20CBI put out a lookout notice that you
2:40:23should not allow Vijay Malia to leave
2:40:25the country and this change was made in
2:40:272015. I know nothing about this. This is
2:40:30the first time you are informing me. I
2:40:32went in and out multiple times during
2:40:35the never never a problem at
2:40:41all and what you're telling me now is
2:40:43news to
2:40:45me. I've never known of LOC issued or
2:40:50any other form of notice. The changed
2:40:51happened on 24th November 2015. Just few
2:40:58words and it specifically read this was
2:41:01a fresh LOC that he needs to be
2:41:03questioned before leaving the country.
2:41:05Where is he going and needs to and this
2:41:06needs to be informed to CBI after that
2:41:09he can continue traveling. He should not
2:41:10be stopped. That's fine. that you said
2:41:13when in 2015
2:41:1524th November 2015 a fresh LOC was and
2:41:19before that before that there was just I
2:41:22don't have must have gone in four times
2:41:24before that two oh so then where's the
2:41:28LOC
2:41:32so all of this is random thing that you
2:41:34met someone really powerful in Delhi and
2:41:36got changed and you changed your CBI
2:41:38circular or something
2:41:41nonsense Okay. Then another thing then
2:41:44another series of event happened because
2:41:46after your public birthday party people
2:41:49started
2:41:51uh losing their [ __ ] They started
2:41:52getting they started getting pissed. It
2:41:55became even more public. This 2015 end
2:41:59of
2:42:00it your Supreme Court interfered. I
2:42:04guess Supreme Court entered in this
2:42:07whole case and they put up a bench that
2:42:113rd March
2:42:132016
2:42:15your case needs to be heard or needs to
2:42:17be represented in front of Supreme
2:42:19Court. On 1st March 2016,
2:42:24you I think you were in Delhi, you went
2:42:27to the parliament and 2nd March you left
2:42:30the country one day before when you were
2:42:34about to be present in front of Supreme
2:42:36Court. Is all of this real or none of it
2:42:39is real? No, no, this is completely
2:42:42false. There was no Supreme Court
2:42:44hearing. I was not summoned to court. I
2:42:47I'm not aware of any court hearing.
2:42:50I told the finance minister Arun
2:42:55Jetley before leaving for the
2:42:59airport and then I flew from Delhi to
2:43:03London. I was on my way to Geneva for a
2:43:06FIA world council meeting which was
2:43:09fixed months ago. I told the finance
2:43:12minister because I went from parliament
2:43:15to Delhi
2:43:19airport when this
2:43:22news hit the
2:43:27media once
2:43:30again it created a storm.
2:43:33Yeah. People went running to Mr. Jetley.
2:43:39He denied meeting
2:43:41me. A Congress MP saw us and then said
2:43:46to the media, "No, I saw them
2:43:48together." Mr. Jetley had to retract his
2:43:51statement and yes, yes, I met him, but
2:43:54only while I was walking. It was a
2:43:56fleeting
2:43:59meeting. I never said I went to Mr.
2:44:02Jetley's office, sat in front of him,
2:44:06had tea with him.
2:44:08All I said is I told the finance
2:44:10minister while leaving I'm going to
2:44:14London. I have to go to Geneva for a
2:44:16meeting. I'll be back. Please tell the
2:44:18banks to sit across the table and settle
2:44:20with me. How long does this take this
2:44:23one sentence? A minute or two.
2:44:35But you see the way he denied it. Then
2:44:39when the Congress MP pointed out his
2:44:42mistake that he saw us, he quickly
2:44:45changed. This is the problem with the
2:44:48media. Particularly where I'm concerned.
2:44:52They conjure up stuff. They blow things
2:44:54well out of
2:44:55proportion. Okay? If it's good for their
2:44:58business, let them continue doing it. So
2:45:00all of this is nuisance that on 2nd of
2:45:05March you left Delhi airport for London
2:45:09in a jet airways flight 9W122 from T3
2:45:13with 55 big
2:45:16suitcases and somebody says 27, somebody
2:45:19says 55. I mean different newspapers,
2:45:21different
2:45:23stuff. What difference does it make?
2:45:26They say LOC then they say no LOC then I
2:45:29tell the finance minister I'm going then
2:45:31he says no then he says no he had a
2:45:33fleeting meeting with
2:45:35me and all this 15 18 suitcases were
2:45:40complete and utter rubbish. So your
2:45:43intention was never to leave the
2:45:44country.
2:45:46Look please understand this whole
2:45:49narrative of Bhagya Bhaga because this
2:45:52is where it starts. Yeah,
2:45:55this is coming from people who don't
2:45:58know their facts. Tell us the facts.
2:46:02I came to England in
2:46:061988. I got my indefinite leave to
2:46:09remain ILR in 1992.
2:46:15For 32 years, I have been a permanent
2:46:18resident of the
2:46:20UK allowed only to spend 180 days in
2:46:24India because I have preserved my
2:46:27non-resident status since 1988.
2:46:31All right, that is why I used to go back
2:46:33and forth so
2:46:35often. All
2:46:37right. So I came I was attending a
2:46:40scheduled meeting in Geneva like I told
2:46:43you. What happened? The loudest anchor
2:46:47in the television
2:46:49industry
2:46:51started all the media piled
2:46:55on. Huge hungama. How did Vijay Mala
2:46:59leave? How did he leave? like any normal
2:47:03person on a jet airways
2:47:08flight that too after telling the
2:47:10finance minister that I'm
2:47:12going driving from parliament house to
2:47:15the
2:47:16airport right so this whole tamasha
2:47:19started right how does
2:47:23government normally react to media
2:47:26frenzy check your own
2:47:28facts I said okay let things cool
2:47:32On top of
2:47:34that,
2:47:36I was negotiating with my foreign
2:47:38collaborators to sell certain shares so
2:47:41that I could pay the banks. My intention
2:47:44was always to settle with the
2:47:46banks. Right. Yeah. So, I told I wrote
2:47:49to the enforcement directorate who sent
2:47:51me a summon. I need some time. I'm
2:47:53negotiating. I want to settle with the
2:47:55banks. I've got some business to do.
2:47:57I've already appeared before the CBI. I
2:48:00will of course I will appear before you.
2:48:02Right. Just give me some time. What
2:48:06happened in the meantime? They revoked
2:48:07my
2:48:08passport. Revoked it.
2:48:12When When was this revoking? 2016. Oh,
2:48:16right before you left.
2:48:19Before. Right after you left. Yeah.
2:48:21Passport gone. How to travel?
2:48:29So you got stuck because they revoked
2:48:31your passport. Your intention was to
2:48:33come back to
2:48:34country. Many things may have been
2:48:36different. No. But your intention was
2:48:39without without a passport. Where do you
2:48:41go? Nowhere. Correct.
2:48:46Because you were a British citizen. Not
2:48:48citizen. Permanent res. Permanent
2:48:50resident. I kept my Indian passport
2:48:52because I was a member of parliament.
2:48:54Okay. which I could not be a member of
2:48:56parliament had I not been an Indian
2:48:58citizen.
2:49:01So if your intention was to come back to
2:49:03the country why didn't people allow you
2:49:08look that you should ask the
2:49:12people why should I sit and speculate
2:49:15but aren't they spending millions of
2:49:18dollars in cases to get your extradition
2:49:22done?
2:49:23Yes. because they have to make a show of
2:49:26things as well.
2:49:28No, have
2:49:30I
2:49:31please? Let's be very
2:49:34clear. Can
2:49:37somebody from the
2:49:40government say to the public, "What
2:49:44crime have I committed for which I must
2:49:46be
2:49:49investigated? Have I stolen money from
2:49:51the banks?
2:49:54You must have a primacy case that I've
2:49:56stolen. You can't just make it up in
2:49:58your head. Yeah. That I've stolen money
2:49:59from the banks. You need some primacy
2:50:02evidence.
2:50:05Have I done any money
2:50:09laundering? Have I done any drug
2:50:12smuggling? Have I been involved in any
2:50:16violent crime?
2:50:18What
2:50:20is the allegation against Vijay
2:50:25Mallaya? Nobody can have an allegation
2:50:28against Vijay Mallaya of dishonesty
2:50:31because I have always been honest and
2:50:33truthful. I have never
2:50:36borrowed and I have never cheated and I
2:50:39never will.
2:50:41But you got this tag of willful
2:50:43defaulter. Willful defaulter is a
2:50:46person who can pay and who doesn't pay.
2:50:50That's a
2:50:51crime. That's
2:50:55crime, isn't it? Make up your
2:50:59mind. Then why did you freeze all my
2:51:02assets? You froze my
2:51:05assets. Okay. In 2016,
2:51:09right? That's how you've recovered
2:51:1214,100 crores,
2:51:15right? You can't freeze
2:51:18assets of a
2:51:21person on one hand and call him a chore
2:51:23on the other hand. See, they call you
2:51:27willful defaulter because you had money
2:51:31and you didn't pay. And that's why they
2:51:34had to take such a strict action to
2:51:36freeze your assets. If you would have
2:51:39paid earlier then they would have not
2:51:41done this. But if you're saying that
2:51:43from 2012 to 2015 you have applied
2:51:46multiple times in the court that you
2:51:48want to settle. Yes.
2:51:50Why is all of this
2:51:55happening? I think it's very clear it's
2:51:58also been a part of the media where a
2:52:01particular senior officer of the state
2:52:04bank of India said to a good friend of
2:52:07mine that as a banker I would have
2:52:09settled with Vijay a long time ago but
2:52:12if I do any settlement with him I'll
2:52:15have the CBI on my neck the very next
2:52:21day. And why do you think CBI has to do
2:52:24all of these
2:52:25things? Because technically banks,
2:52:27you're saying banks want 14,000 cr.
2:52:30Isn't the CBI called a cage parrot?
2:52:36But then banks ultimately want 14,000
2:52:38cr. So they don't want anything to
2:52:41happen. Why would bank want to settle?
2:52:44Who knows? Who knows? If you go to the
2:52:46banks today, they may tell you I owe
2:52:49even more money. Tell me real numbers
2:52:51because somewhere it's written 9,000 K
2:52:53or somewhere it's written there is no
2:52:549,000 that is all
2:52:56imagination
2:52:586203 is the real number judgment debt
2:53:036203 6,23
2:53:05and you have been vocal about it I was
2:53:07going through your tweets publicly you
2:53:10have been very vocal about that hey I
2:53:12want to pay come talk to me hey I want
2:53:14to settle there are multiple times
2:53:16you've just said it I have show you
2:53:18letters I've written to the banks
2:53:20nothing we cannot engage with you period
2:53:23right you were part of the parliament
2:53:25Mhm. And you had you were influential.
2:53:29You had money. You were
2:53:30powerful. You could do nothing about all
2:53:33of
2:53:36this. What went
2:53:39wrong? That probably is the cause of
2:53:42everything that
2:53:46followed. Who do you make a poster boy?
2:53:49Somebody who is insignificant. Is it?
2:53:52Why would if you want to if you want to
2:53:54make an example of somebody who do you
2:53:56make an example of a visible person or
2:53:59an invisible person? Definitely a
2:54:01visible person. Correct. So there you
2:54:03have got the answer. But why would they
2:54:05want to make an example out of you when
2:54:07you were ready to settle? It was just a
2:54:09business failure in your terms. It it
2:54:10suits you no to reject a settlement
2:54:13offer and to continue to claim that
2:54:16amounts are due to the banks and you
2:54:19therefore you're a defaulter and
2:54:20therefore we are going to hound you and
2:54:22chase
2:54:23you. It suits the
2:54:25narrative today in
2:54:28India business failure means fraud.
2:54:33If purely that line you're talking about
2:54:36asking me about
2:54:38me, why
2:54:41people tag me woolful defaulter? Why
2:54:44they accuse me? Why the narrative is so
2:54:47negative about me? What happened to poor
2:54:50Nar Goyel? What
2:54:53happened? India's biggest airlines jet
2:54:56collapsed. Naresh Goyel went to jail.
2:55:00What happened to people like Gautam
2:55:03Tapur in
2:55:05Delhi in jail?
2:55:10Right? So if your business does badly,
2:55:14you're automatically referred to as a
2:55:16fraud. The inference is that you have
2:55:20stolen. In which countries does this
2:55:23happen?
2:55:26The biggest companies in the world
2:55:28fail, right? Are
2:55:30there their management, senior
2:55:32management put in
2:55:34jail? Are they accused of
2:55:37fraud? The whole purpose of
2:55:41business is associated with certain risk
2:55:44as well. Y right.
2:55:49But in India, sadly, you have a business
2:55:54that
2:55:55fails. You're accused of fraud and
2:55:58improper conduct.
2:56:06And people say and the government and
2:56:08the agencies
2:56:11that your fraud or people who are
2:56:15businesses have failed are
2:56:17fraud because they've taken money from
2:56:20the banks which is a common taxpayers
2:56:23money which is common people's money. So
2:56:26if you take common people's money and
2:56:28you're not able to repay it then you're
2:56:30considered
2:56:31wrong. But if in your case if they have
2:56:36actually recovered more than 2.5x of it
2:56:39or probably somewhere around that
2:56:41number why are they still behind you?
2:56:44Because as I
2:56:45said, have you ever
2:56:48heard of
2:56:53any
2:56:55bank not rendering an account to a
2:56:59borrower or a
2:57:01guaranter? Despite 15
2:57:05reminders, the same
2:57:07banks have not given me a statement of
2:57:10account. Not one. Have you ever heard of
2:57:15such conduct anywhere in the world? For
2:57:18the first
2:57:19time, it is through the statement in
2:57:22parliament of the finance
2:57:25minister and the printed report of the
2:57:29ministry of
2:57:30finance that they have shown 14,100
2:57:33crores recovered from me. The government
2:57:36have the banks have not rendered a
2:57:38statement of account. That is why I have
2:57:41gone to the Karnataka High Court asking
2:57:45the court to direct the banks to give me
2:57:48a statement of account. That is the
2:57:50pitiful state of affairs. Now let me
2:57:54explain things to you very in a summary
2:57:56fashion in this entire debt of
2:57:59Kingfisher Airlines and the recovery.
2:58:02You have the recovery officer of the
2:58:05debt recovery tribunal. Yeah. The debt
2:58:08recovery tribunal is the one that that
2:58:11that gave the certificate of debt. They
2:58:15have recovery officers whose job it is
2:58:18to recover against that recovery
2:58:20certificate and inform the tribunal
2:58:23about how much has been recovered
2:58:25because when the full amount is
2:58:27recovered the debt recovery tribunal
2:58:30will issue a discharge certificate that
2:58:32your debt is paid. Second is because the
2:58:37second guarantor United Breweries
2:58:38Holdings Limited is in
2:58:40liquidation. It is in the control of the
2:58:43official
2:58:44liquidator. The official liquidator is
2:58:46also obliged to give an account to the
2:58:49court right on the liquidation which
2:58:54includes being a co-arer of the king
2:58:57fisher airlines debt
2:59:01right both
2:59:03these have stated in court in judicial
2:59:07proceedings that the banks have been
2:59:09fully
2:59:10paid yet the banks have not submitted a
2:59:14statement of account. I have had to go
2:59:17to the Karnataka High
2:59:19Court pleading with them to please
2:59:21direct the banks to submit a statement
2:59:24of account and of course the official
2:59:26liquidator and the recovery officer as
2:59:28well. This is the conduct of those banks
2:59:32and you're asking me questions about why
2:59:34they didn't do this and why they didn't
2:59:35do that. Does it happen with other
2:59:38entrepreneurs as well? I'd be shocked if
2:59:39it did. I've never heard of anything
2:59:41like this. Do you think the Indian
2:59:44system gets rigged against the
2:59:47entrepreneurs or the business owners who
2:59:49get too powerful after a point? It's
2:59:52certainly rigable because in your case,
2:59:54this is what happened, right?
2:59:57In my case, all the
2:59:59facts are there for everyone to see.
3:00:03Then sir, what's the future? Like what
3:00:05what's going to happen now? What's
3:00:07happening in your story?
3:00:11What you're telling is completely
3:00:13different than anything and everything
3:00:16that any Indian person out there who
3:00:20will do little research about you would
3:00:21find. It's completely different than
3:00:22what you're telling. But if you do
3:00:25research on me, what are you going to
3:00:27find?
3:00:29You will only find the
3:00:32narrative generated over a period of
3:00:35time by the Indian legacy media and to
3:00:40certain extent the
3:00:42government and what they have
3:00:45said and of course when I say government
3:00:48it includes CBI and ED and this that and
3:00:50the other. All right, that's all you
3:00:52will
3:00:53find. All of which is false
3:00:57narrative either deliberately
3:01:00written or in some cases with the media
3:01:04ignorately written. So is there a
3:01:08businessman, politician, media kind of
3:01:11nexus against you in India? I don't know
3:01:15who is against me except this
3:01:19government and I made no bones about it
3:01:22that I am their poster boy. I am also a
3:01:25political football,
3:01:28right? You must have heard the the
3:01:31narrative. BJP tells Congressw.
3:01:37Congress responds to
3:01:40[Music]
3:01:44BJP is the football in the
3:01:47middle. What is the biggest challenge of
3:01:51doing business in India?
3:01:53government
3:01:56extreme government it's in the Indian
3:01:58DNA no matter what a state government or
3:02:02a federal government may say about ease
3:02:04of doing business in India there is no
3:02:07ease of doing business in India there
3:02:10are hurdles bureaucratic hurdles
3:02:13political hurdles all along the way they
3:02:15may have reduced over a period of time
3:02:18uh but but no I mean you can't compare
3:02:22India and ease of doing business in
3:02:23India with any of the western economies.
3:02:28But how did you manage that before? Like
3:02:31earlier you expanded your group from
3:02:33couple of hundred crores to thousands of
3:02:36critically you must be navigating
3:02:39somehow with all these challenges. What
3:02:40did you do? That's what I said. I I had
3:02:43to maintain good relations with almost
3:02:4829 countries. That's a 29 states all of
3:02:52which were empowered by the constitution
3:02:55to have their own policy on liquor. So I
3:02:58had to effectively be in the good books
3:03:00of 29 chief ministers. What do you mean
3:03:03by becoming or getting in the good books
3:03:06of the government? Well, you know, like
3:03:07were you doing favors? They were asking
3:03:09favors to you.
3:03:11Look, let me tell
3:03:13you when elections were announced, I
3:03:17would desperately want to take a holiday
3:03:20outside India. Why? Because I didn't
3:03:24want to be accessible. The politicians
3:03:26always felt that you know the liquor
3:03:30business was the cash cow that would
3:03:34meet their electoral aspirations. um you
3:03:37know sometimes these aspirations were
3:03:41completely unreasonable and
3:03:43impractical but no I mean
3:03:46look dealing with government doesn't
3:03:50mean underhand exchange of
3:03:54money okay it definitely doesn't I mean
3:03:58whoever said that you know I can buy my
3:04:00way through X Y or Z is wrong okay you
3:04:04can have good relations with people and
3:04:07provided you present
3:04:11um a proposal to them that meets their
3:04:14own political objectives, it works well.
3:04:17But would there ever be exchange under
3:04:20the table as well? All of that used to
3:04:21work. No, you
3:04:23know, I'm not going to confirm or deny
3:04:26that because I leave it to your
3:04:27imagination because I think you know
3:04:30India as much as I know
3:04:32India and
3:04:37They would ask for backing the election
3:04:40campaigns. That's what they would ask
3:04:42technically. Or were there was there
3:04:43something else as well? Look, the
3:04:45demands were varied. Give me give me
3:04:48example of two three demands. The
3:04:49demands were first of all cash. Second
3:04:52copious amounts of alcohol which is
3:04:55seems to be an essential part of any
3:04:57electoral campaign for free. Vehicles.
3:05:02Vehicles. Cars. vehicles, jeeps, cars.
3:05:05Yeah. So it was
3:05:09multifarious but the easiest for me was
3:05:12to disbuzz alcohol. M which is you know
3:05:16at the end of the day I was in a
3:05:17privileged position heading India's
3:05:19largest alcohol company. I could say all
3:05:22right fine you know but yeah alcohol
3:05:25plays a big role in elections in India
3:05:28even today.
3:05:30How do you make money now?
3:05:32How do I make money? Like today, how do
3:05:34you make money? I make a I I get a
3:05:37modest salary from my company.
3:05:40Not the Indian companies.
3:05:43No. So you like do you own anything
3:05:46here? There are companies here or in
3:05:48other countries? Of course. I told you
3:05:51I've been a non-resident since
3:05:541988. Okay. Uh even though I sold Bger
3:05:58paints in 1996, I've had several other
3:06:01businesses outside of
3:06:03India for the last 30 years. What was
3:06:06your net worth at peak in India? I don't
3:06:09know because it fluctuated with the
3:06:11share value any number to great amount
3:06:15of speculation. Okay.
3:06:17Frankly, what difference does it make?
3:06:20What's in it worth today? I don't know.
3:06:24probably zero according to the banks
3:06:28probably. Walk me through your day
3:06:30today. What do you do now after all of
3:06:32this and done? What time do you wake up?
3:06:35How do you keep yourself busy? What do
3:06:36you do? Well, I have six dogs. I love
3:06:40them. I love dogs. I play with them. I
3:06:43like to keep a breast of international
3:06:46news.
3:06:47Um,
3:06:49I love my dogs. I play with them a lot.
3:06:53Uh, I have a few classic cars which I
3:06:56like to tinker with, but I have an
3:06:59office on the property next door with my
3:07:02staff and yeah, as I told you, I have
3:07:04running
3:07:05businesses and so I keep an eye on them,
3:07:11but sadly a lot of time is taken on
3:07:15unproductive and very expensive legal
3:07:18matters.
3:07:20Um sadly once again the
3:07:24banks in India who
3:07:28are stateowned banks public sector
3:07:32banks carried their attack on me here
3:07:35even before the UK
3:07:37courts. So as if Indian legal
3:07:40proceedings were not enough they even
3:07:43came here. M fine. So, I have to defend
3:07:46myself.
3:07:47And the businesses that you run here,
3:07:49they fund the legal fees and everything
3:07:50that you're doing. Yeah. There's, let's
3:07:52put it this way, there's enough to go
3:07:55around.
3:07:57What kind of businesses are here? The
3:07:59same brewery or something else. Oh,
3:08:00yeah. Yeah. Basically, save my core
3:08:03business, alcohol brewery or all that.
3:08:05You love it. You love doing the same
3:08:07thing. That's what's in my blood. You
3:08:09know, I used to joke when I was young. I
3:08:11said I was born in a bottle.
3:08:17Wow. Do you feel restricted
3:08:20now? Because you just use word I was
3:08:22born in a bottle. Do you feel that
3:08:24you've been caged in a bottle again with
3:08:26all these legal matters because you
3:08:29don't have a passport.
3:08:31You're a free bird flying around all
3:08:33over the world. Yeah. So now you're
3:08:35stuck here. But that freedom went in
3:08:382016 when the Indian government revoked
3:08:41my passport.
3:08:45So it wasn't a
3:08:48suspension, it was a
3:08:51revocation. So I
3:08:54knew back
3:08:57then the consequence was no trouble,
3:09:01right?
3:09:07So for a guy who used to be on a plane
3:09:10three four times a week flying around
3:09:12the
3:09:14world to be in one country for nine long
3:09:18years certainly a game
3:09:21changer. It must be
3:09:25but it's not a matter of life and death.
3:09:30I mean it isn't that
3:09:33profound because there's enough and more
3:09:36to do and to enjoy a quality of
3:09:40life that okay has shrunk in many
3:09:44ways from what used to be but it's still
3:09:49okay one must get on and move on. Does
3:09:52it not bother you?
3:09:55No. Do I well I it doesn't bother me. Do
3:09:58I look bothered?
3:10:02No, not to me. It's not a question of
3:10:04what is the meaning of do I get up in
3:10:07the morning and wipe my tears away every
3:10:09day? No. Someday some point you're like
3:10:13I'm done with this. Like what the hell
3:10:14is happening with me? What is my
3:10:18solution? What are my
3:10:21options? The government of India has
3:10:23revoked my
3:10:24passport. Right?
3:10:27All I can get is a one-way travel pass
3:10:30to India. That's it. What about my
3:10:34constitutional
3:10:36rights that every Indian citizen is
3:10:39entitled to a
3:10:43passport? And what happens if I try to
3:10:46enforce those? It'll drag on for years
3:10:49in the court by the time I might be too
3:10:53old to travel.
3:10:57So don't you feel lonely here? No. Well,
3:11:00I have a lot of my friends
3:11:03uh here in England. I lot of people come
3:11:08and visit
3:11:09me. Uh well, another one of life's
3:11:15lessons is when times are tough, you
3:11:17realize who your actual friends are.
3:11:20Then I have realized
3:11:23that very
3:11:25comprehensively. I mean those who used
3:11:27to be my so-called buddies who
3:11:32uh in times of
3:11:35my heyday for lack of a better word and
3:11:39nowhere to be said. So you used to hang
3:11:42out with a lot of billionaires,
3:11:44Bollywood celebrities, politicians, lot
3:11:47of people and your friends from the
3:11:48corporate world. They all stopped taking
3:11:51up your calls. No, no, no, no. The
3:11:54politicians certainly
3:11:56stopped. And I think as one one of the
3:12:00many politicians explained to me quite
3:12:02truthfully, which I respect, he said if
3:12:05we are seen to be associated with Jews,
3:12:07this government will come after us, you
3:12:09know, because I think there in the
3:12:11political world, I think it's pretty
3:12:14well known and more importantly pretty
3:12:16obvious that this government is after
3:12:17me. M
3:12:19um so they want to protect
3:12:23themselves as far as
3:12:26uh corporate titans are concerned I mean
3:12:30Kiran Mazumar bless her soul she's like
3:12:34my sister makes it a point to be in
3:12:36constant
3:12:37touch comes to England we always have a
3:12:41meal together and like that there are
3:12:44few other good
3:12:45friends who keep in touch but
3:12:48Otherwise
3:12:50no certainly not as frequently as I
3:12:53would have been in touch with them or
3:12:55seen them when I was in India and all
3:12:58these troubles hadn't started. Talk
3:13:00about Kiran Mazumar Sha she publicly
3:13:04talks about you and how close you were
3:13:06like since childhood you were friends
3:13:08and she talks about your generosity your
3:13:11optimism. She's been very vocal that you
3:13:15gave it all to save and fight it all.
3:13:19You she has gone out in public and said
3:13:23that just it was bad times and bad
3:13:25things which happened to you but you
3:13:28were right and you gave it all away. So
3:13:30she talks about it and someone of that
3:13:33stature living in a very public market
3:13:37in country like India usually people
3:13:40stay away from these conversations and
3:13:42people would want to she talks but she
3:13:44doesn't she talks about it everyone
3:13:46every time people ask about you she's
3:13:48been okay about it in fact there was a
3:13:50statement that she said lot of people
3:13:53are optimistic which I was probably
3:13:56rather more optimistic than most and
3:14:00version of just optimism. Let me tell
3:14:02you, Kiran and me grew up together. I
3:14:04talked about the brewery house in
3:14:06Bangalore. At that time there was a
3:14:08little colony. So there was a brewery
3:14:10house in which I lived and then four
3:14:12other bungalows. The one next to the
3:14:15brewery house was actually occupied by
3:14:17Kiran Mazuman and her father. Her father
3:14:20was the chief brewer and the technical
3:14:22director of UB. Okay. Okay.
3:14:26And so Kiran and her two brothers and
3:14:29mom grew up in my house in my in my
3:14:34colony with one wall separating us. So
3:14:36we were very very close uh and
3:14:41and Kiran has been very very
3:14:45different. She started off being a
3:14:48qualified brew master.
3:14:51How many Indian
3:14:53women can you think of who would go and
3:14:57qualify as a brew
3:15:00master? But Kiran was determined to do
3:15:03it and she did it in Australia.
3:15:09So Kiran as an
3:15:11entrepreneur not only has been brilliant
3:15:14but has a super brilliant track
3:15:17record but she's a tough cookie and she
3:15:20speaks her mind which is something that
3:15:23people should
3:15:24respect and being a woman at that. So
3:15:28I'm so grateful for her public support
3:15:31of me. She knows what I went through
3:15:34with Kingfisher Airlines. I used to
3:15:36share it with her all the time. And she
3:15:39knew that I gave it my all. I forget
3:15:42about just putting in 3,000 crores. I
3:15:46mean,
3:15:47every bit of my blood, sweat, and tears
3:15:50went into trying to make King Fisher
3:15:52Airlines
3:15:54work. Now that she isn't here, you're
3:15:57not
3:15:58there. You're alone. friends, parties,
3:16:04uh businesses, that busy, restless life,
3:16:06nothing is
3:16:07there. In 9 years, what was the
3:16:11loneliest day of your life?
3:16:14I I always have had something to do. I
3:16:18haven't been
3:16:20sitting alone. Uh I told you I my
3:16:26interests keep me occupied. My pace of
3:16:29life is slowed down
3:16:33dramatically. My pace of life now is
3:16:37probably one of
3:16:38semi-retirement to be
3:16:41honest. But that's what
3:16:44happens when you reach retirement age,
3:16:47isn't
3:16:48it? So the frenzy of the
3:16:53past doesn't last
3:16:56forever. And I'm in that phase.
3:16:59But I have enough and more interest to
3:17:01keep me occupied.
3:17:05What do people misunderstand about you?
3:17:07I don't know what people understand to
3:17:09begin with. Forget about
3:17:12misunderstanding. I
3:17:15mean, people in general, particularly
3:17:18the media, they hate my guts.
3:17:22They don't like the fact that I rarely
3:17:24get
3:17:25flustered and they try to break me down
3:17:28deliberately brick by brick. They try
3:17:32very very hard but you know maybe it's
3:17:34my upbringing in life. Maybe because I
3:17:37started very
3:17:39young. I'm
3:17:41tough and tough so I don't get brow
3:17:45beats. I don't get pushed over. I stand
3:17:48my ground.
3:17:51And the media hate
3:17:53it. They absolutely hate it. So I've
3:17:58heard all this. Malia is arrogant. Malia
3:18:01is a show off X Y and Z. And the
3:18:05narrative keeps repeating time and time
3:18:08and time
3:18:09again
3:18:11because I have never taken out my
3:18:13handkerchief and started weeping in
3:18:15front of them.
3:18:18They would love that. If I did that in
3:18:21front of the legacy media, probably the
3:18:23whole narrative about me would change.
3:18:26But that's not me. Is this also has this
3:18:30become your defense mechanism now? There
3:18:32was never any defense mechanism. Like
3:18:34now it has become your image that hey I
3:18:36don't get I'm not going to break in
3:18:39front of you guys. So I'm going to stick
3:18:40through it and that's why I won't show
3:18:43my real side. I won't show my real
3:18:44emotions. I won't show what I'm feeling.
3:18:46But what I'm feeling is real. There is
3:18:48no other side. There is no other
3:18:52side. Please
3:18:54understand for 50
3:18:57years. I've been in charge. I've been
3:19:01through a
3:19:02lot. I've been there, done that. He's
3:19:06toughened me
3:19:08up. I faced the crisis of Kingfisher
3:19:11Airlines. I felt it more than anybody
3:19:14else. I gave it my all, but I kept
3:19:17myself together because I was a
3:19:21leader. If I had crumbled and collapsed,
3:19:24the airline would have crumbled and
3:19:26collapsed a lot earlier than it did.
3:19:28What are you feeling right now as you
3:19:30talk about you gave it all and you still
3:19:33couldn't save King Fisher? Well, I'm I'm
3:19:35sad about it because you know it's not
3:19:37just about King
3:19:39Fisher. I have never been used to
3:19:41business failure.
3:19:44I took risks. I made bold decisions and
3:19:48I built my core business in alcohol into
3:19:52something I could be greatly proud
3:19:55of. I failed with Kingfisher and that
3:19:59hurts me more than anything else.
3:20:02Kingfisher was a wonderful product,
3:20:06probably the most awarded airline
3:20:08ever, providing connectivity to places
3:20:12in India that were never connected by
3:20:14air
3:20:16before and in an
3:20:19environment
3:20:20promising
3:20:23growth. Today, India is the biggest
3:20:26single growth market for aviation in the
3:20:29world.
3:20:31Can you imagine if King Fcher was still
3:20:32flying? It was just circumstances at
3:20:36that particular time, government
3:20:38policies that didn't
3:20:41help and mounting
3:20:43losses. But I gave it my all. I I told
3:20:46you quite apart from putting in 3,000
3:20:49crores cash into Kingfisher
3:20:53Airlines and the final straw was the
3:20:57refusal to let Etihad invest in King
3:21:00Fisha and that was it. I had run out of
3:21:03options. Can you imagine how I
3:21:06felt? I felt miserable. What's your
3:21:09biggest fear now? My fear? Are you
3:21:12afraid of anything?
3:21:18Well, what can I be afraid
3:21:21of? What can I be afraid of? What do I
3:21:24do that would scare
3:21:26me? Living a semi-retired life, what can
3:21:30happen that's going to
3:21:33uh scare me? Extradition.
3:21:37Oh, yeah.
3:21:38Look, if you're talking about the legal
3:21:41issues, there are multiple legal issues.
3:21:44All right,
3:21:46which I will
3:21:48defend before the courts of law both in
3:21:51this country as well as in
3:21:54India.
3:21:56And any legal case can go either way.
3:22:00You can't sit and predict the
3:22:04outcome. Neither can you celebrate a
3:22:07potential outcome and neither can you
3:22:09cry about a potential outcome. That's
3:22:12what legal cases are all about. But are
3:22:15you prepared for the worst? Of course, I
3:22:17have to face the worst. I
3:22:22I no qualms or no doubts in my mind that
3:22:26if the worst is what is destined for me,
3:22:30that's what's destined for me and you
3:22:31face it head on. What do you think is
3:22:34worst? What is what can happen the
3:22:36worst? Oh, what I think is very clear,
3:22:40what the Indian government wants, what
3:22:42many of the Indian media anchors want,
3:22:45jail
3:22:46clothes, jail
3:22:49food in Thihar or Arur Road or God knows
3:22:54which jail in India. That's it. And
3:22:56spend the rest of my life behind
3:22:59bars. That's it. Have you ever imagined
3:23:02yourself actually going to jail? Well,
3:23:04if that's what is inevitable, what
3:23:06option do I have? Is it inevitable?
3:23:10Might
3:23:11be. I'm not an
3:23:13astrologer. I'll fight my way in court.
3:23:16Doesn't it scare you that I lived a
3:23:19king-sized life and now I might end up
3:23:21in jail? Uh, and those that is how I'm
3:23:26going to end my life like probably.
3:23:28Correct. So, I said earlier today,
3:23:32right? hero to zero
3:23:35and you're okay with it. What option do
3:23:38I have? Do you ever wake up and think
3:23:41like [ __ ] why me? What is this
3:23:44happening? Because in your head you're
3:23:46clear and you say that you've not done
3:23:49anything wrong. So do you ever feel like
3:23:52why the hell me? Maybe that's my
3:23:56destiny. Maybe my stars are misalignant.
3:24:02Do you believe in it?
3:24:06No. I don't believe in
3:24:08astrology. But do you believe in God? In
3:24:14God very much so. I'm deeply religious.
3:24:17I have gone to most of the temples in
3:24:20India particularly South India. I've
3:24:22made my modest
3:24:24offerings to various temples. I I don't
3:24:29know whether you know but the Sabriala
3:24:32temple in Kerala the
3:24:34entire gold roof was donated by
3:24:38me. Tirupati
3:24:41Tirumala temple uh the entire gold
3:24:44plating of the front of the sanctum was
3:24:46donated by me. I've donated dwaja tambas
3:24:50in the subramanya temple and moambika
3:24:54temple.
3:24:56I Yeah. So I I definitely believe in
3:25:00God. Do you not then question it? No, I
3:25:04don't question it. I just I just I
3:25:06believe like I believe in God so much. I
3:25:09do so much for my religious belief and
3:25:14still I'm going through all of this.
3:25:16Yeah. Well, ultimately God will protect
3:25:20me. That if I have to have a rough
3:25:24ride in the process, maybe that was also
3:25:28what God wants. Do you think winning the
3:25:32case is important for you now? Or you're
3:25:36like, even if it gets stretched, I've
3:25:39come terms to my life. I'm aging. It's
3:25:41okay.
3:25:42Unfortunately, the word stretch doesn't
3:25:45work in English
3:25:48courts. Okay. There's nothing known as
3:25:50stretching a case in this country. In
3:25:53India, yes, sadly, that's why legal
3:25:56matters take so much time to resolve.
3:25:58Here, dates fix, trial, it's fixed,
3:26:01decision rendered, story
3:26:03over. So, you can't willfully kind of
3:26:07string things along. But is it important
3:26:09for you to win?
3:26:11Yes, because I believe I should win on
3:26:16merit. What have I done? I've done
3:26:18nothing
3:26:19wrong. I haven't I'm not a criminal. If
3:26:23you could go back to your younger self,
3:26:26what would you tell your younger self?
3:26:28Would you tell him to do anything
3:26:31differently? I think the values I've
3:26:34instilled in
3:26:35my my son in particular and my all my
3:26:39three children is by example my hard
3:26:42work. They have of course they were very
3:26:45young but they've seen how hard I
3:26:47worked and basically the dedication and
3:26:51commitment to your objectives and your
3:26:55responsibilities. That's it. But would
3:26:57you go to your younger self and tell
3:26:59something different? What could what
3:27:01what choices would I have? If you gave
3:27:04me a choice on what I would choose, I
3:27:07might choose. But if I was probably
3:27:09never start Kingfisher Airlines because
3:27:11that all cost you the trouble. Yeah,
3:27:14good possibility. Good possibility that
3:27:17maybe I should have just said I'm going
3:27:20to stick to my core business of alcohol
3:27:23and just not do anything else. Do you
3:27:25think any part of it you would have
3:27:27dealt
3:27:28with little in a different
3:27:31way anything about you about the choices
3:27:35you've made? Yeah, maybe I made one
3:27:37wrong choice in listening to the finance
3:27:40minister Mr. Prana Mukhaji when I went
3:27:42to him I realized the writing was on the
3:27:45wall. They were very tough times and I
3:27:48told him I have to downsize this
3:27:50airline and he said no no no you cannot
3:27:53and the banks will support you and so on
3:27:55and so forth and yeah I I listened to
3:27:59him maybe I shouldn't have I should have
3:28:01gone ahead and downsized it and had I
3:28:04downsized it the financial burden would
3:28:06have been far less and probably king
3:28:10Fischer would have been flying till
3:28:12today what's one thing about extreme
3:28:15wealth
3:28:16that people common people don't
3:28:18understand.
3:28:20I don't know because I've never had
3:28:23extreme wealth uh ever.
3:28:27The kind of wealth you had was extreme
3:28:29for a large share of people around the
3:28:31world, not just our country. Once again,
3:28:33a major
3:28:35misconception. Just because I had the
3:28:37Kingfisher calendar with pretty
3:28:39models. Just because I I sponsored the
3:28:44Indian Derby in horse
3:28:46racing. Just because I sponsored
3:28:50fashion. All of which were to my mind
3:28:55marketing tools with the singular
3:28:58objective of promoting my brands. And I
3:29:02got the tag of king of good times which
3:29:06gave the impression that I was super
3:29:08rich. I didn't spend a penny from my
3:29:11pocket. None. But you were super rich.
3:29:15You still are super rich. I'm not. All
3:29:17my
3:29:19assets in India have been
3:29:21taken. Right. So yes, there were
3:29:24thousands of
3:29:26crone. Right? So what do I have left?
3:29:31That's India. Here you're sitting in my
3:29:34house. I've explained my
3:29:39lifestyle. It's
3:29:41normal. What's super rich about
3:29:48it? Come on. This is super. What's super
3:29:51rich about it? This is super rich. Let's
3:29:54just agree to disagree here because come
3:29:58on. Like what are we even talking about?
3:30:01This is not a life of somebody a normal
3:30:05taxpayer or a normal person going to a
3:30:08job or 99% of the people in the world.
3:30:11Were you ever in control of your public
3:30:13image? Why I never even tried?
3:30:18Because what you're telling the version
3:30:20that I get to see in last two days and
3:30:24what probably millions of people would
3:30:26get to see now
3:30:28is a version that is completely
3:30:31different that is out there. That's why
3:30:34I'm doing the podcast with you. You
3:30:36built a personal brand which crashed
3:30:38down way worse than King Fisher
3:30:41Airlines.
3:30:44Did you ever make it or it was always
3:30:46just the media who did it? It was always
3:30:49the media who did it. So you were never
3:30:50control of your personal brand ever at
3:30:52any point? Not
3:30:54once. Never even paid attention to it.
3:30:57And you never bothered.
3:30:59No. Why should I bother? And why bother
3:31:01now?
3:31:03Absolutely correct.
3:31:06But what's going on? Like
3:31:09why why do you care now? Because I'm not
3:31:14talking about brand Vijay Mallaya. I'm
3:31:17talking about how I have been
3:31:21wronged. I'd like to show you something.
3:31:25All right. Here
3:31:28is here is the recovery certificate of
3:31:32the debt recovery tribunal. Right? It
3:31:36says recovery
3:31:37certificate
3:31:406,23 crores 35 lakhs
3:31:453,879 and Pisa 42 only.
3:31:50That's the
3:31:516,23 crores plus interest at 11.5% with
3:31:56yearly
3:31:57rests. All right. So that
3:32:01is that is
3:32:03evidence of the debt. Right? Okay. You
3:32:08asked me
3:32:11earlier where did this 9,000 cr figure
3:32:16come from?
3:32:17This is the official debt recovery
3:32:21tribunal Karnataka Bangalore's
3:32:25document that's and they have said that
3:32:28you owe 6,2003 cr rupees me along with
3:32:32four others four others yeah correct
3:32:35okay kingfisher airlines United Beries
3:32:38Vijay Malia Kingfisher fine west correct
3:32:41okay so the assets of all those
3:32:45combined
3:32:47right would need to satisfy the judgment
3:32:49debt of 6,0002 crores. Yeah. Before I go
3:32:54very further, I'm the one under attack.
3:32:58Not all four. Anyway, you ask me about
3:33:02where this 9,000 figure came from. Yeah,
3:33:06because it's written 6,2003.
3:33:08No problem. Plus interest, whatever the
3:33:10case may be. That is dated 2017. If you
3:33:14see the date of the document.
3:33:23Yeah, I can't. Where is this? Maybe you
3:33:27should go to the end. Okay. Last
3:33:30signing. Yeah. Date of
3:33:33deliveries 26 July 17. Correct. Okay.
3:33:38And
3:33:40then I'll show you
3:33:43another report about an interview with
3:33:46the prime
3:33:47minister. Okay.
3:33:50March
3:33:5229,
3:33:542019 in
3:33:56which the prime
3:33:59minister has
3:34:01said he owed 9,000
3:34:05cr but government recovered 14,000 cr
3:34:12says PM Modi on India's action against
3:34:17Vijay Malia.
3:34:29Yeah.
3:34:32But so why would a PM say 9,000 cr where
3:34:36this
3:34:39number? I am as perplexed as you
3:34:42are because the banks have not ever
3:34:46submitted a statement of account to me
3:34:49which in itself is very
3:34:52strange but the prime minister has said
3:34:56it and it has been widely
3:34:58reported all
3:34:59right and it quotes the figure of 9,000
3:35:03crores
3:35:06now the prime minister of India is not
3:35:09going to make a frivolous statement.
3:35:13Somebody must have told him number
3:35:17but I wonder if there was no keen
3:35:20governmental interest in
3:35:23me. It's not normal for a prime minister
3:35:26of the world's largest
3:35:28democracy to be talking about a recovery
3:35:31from a guarantor called Vijay Malia. He
3:35:35addressed it because your case was very
3:35:38public and a lot of people were
3:35:40questioning it. You became a public
3:35:42matter. You were no more a
3:35:44private defaulter. So I'm the only one
3:35:48according to you. No, you were too way
3:35:51too public than others. There are
3:35:53several other companies who have
3:35:56borrowed a lot more money. uh I mean a
3:36:00lot seriously a lot more money but
3:36:03nobody gets mentioned anyway that's fine
3:36:06I'm just narrating the sequence of
3:36:08events
3:36:12then be before we go there
3:36:16who are you actually fighting against
3:36:19media government or judiciary I'm not in
3:36:23uh court against the
3:36:26media I'm not in court
3:36:29against the judiciary. I can't be I'm
3:36:33defending
3:36:35myself from those who are prosecuting me
3:36:38and the prosecutor is either the
3:36:40government or the
3:36:42bank.
3:36:45Simple.
3:36:47Okay, I'll go through the series of
3:36:50events. Let's go through those events
3:36:51together. One of the sort of allegations
3:36:54is that I
3:36:57improperly borrowed money from the IDBI
3:37:00bank
3:37:03by some sort of nexus. Yeah. Between you
3:37:07and the general manager and no no the
3:37:10chairman and managing director and
3:37:11executive directors which is a lot of
3:37:14people were involved so that the normal
3:37:16rules of lending were not applicable to
3:37:20you. IDBI Bank had a Reserve Bank of
3:37:23India and a
3:37:26um Ministry of Finance representative on
3:37:29their board. All the loans that King
3:37:32Airlines received were approved by their
3:37:35board. Right. M
3:37:41that I will draw your
3:37:44attention
3:37:45to public statement in
3:37:492021 because IDBI is a publicly listed
3:37:54entity had to report their financial
3:37:57performance to the stock
3:37:59exchange and announcing the quarter 1
3:38:03results the managing director and CEO MK
3:38:06Sharma Um said that
3:38:09278 crores by way of
3:38:13principle and 331 crores by way of
3:38:18interest aggregating
3:38:21753 crores was recovered from Kingfisher
3:38:26Airlines. This is in
3:38:282021 and therefore IDBI was paid in
3:38:32full.
3:38:53Then
3:38:57why why does CBI and ED find you guilty?
3:39:02Because once they file their charge
3:39:08sheets, the presumption is that you are
3:39:12guilty until you prove yourself
3:39:14innocent. Whereas the law requires the
3:39:18opposite. You are presumed innocent
3:39:21until they prove you guilty.
3:39:26I'm still waiting for the CBI and
3:39:29enforcement
3:39:30directors to produce evidence of my
3:39:34guilt, but they continue to pursue me on
3:39:39behalf of the banks.
3:39:41Now, you see
3:39:44here,
3:39:46right, the this follows the finance
3:39:50minister statement in parliament on the
3:39:53floor of parliament.
3:39:55on December 17th, 2024, which is a few
3:39:58months
3:39:59ago. But here is the annual
3:40:02report of the Ministry of Finance
3:40:06printed hard copy for the year
3:40:102425 in which they say under 4.2.14
3:40:152.14 restitution of properties to
3:40:18victims of money
3:40:21laundering/ legitimate
3:40:24claimments. Okay. And it goes on to say
3:40:27the enforcement directorate is not only
3:40:30actively pursuing the economic offenders
3:40:33to unravel the money laundering but at
3:40:35the same time is also making efforts for
3:40:38the restitution or return of assets to
3:40:42the banks and others who have been
3:40:44defrauded by the
3:40:47offenders. Right. The ED has
3:40:50successfully restored properties valued
3:40:52at approximately rupees
3:40:5522,280 crores to victims or legitimate
3:40:59claimments. The details of the
3:41:03restitution/restoration done by ED are
3:41:05given below. Number one, Vijay Mallaya
3:41:09case quantum of properties restored
3:41:1214,131.6
3:41:14six crores and in the comment section
3:41:18details of
3:41:19restoration says complete amount of
3:41:24attached properties have been
3:41:27successfully restored to the public
3:41:30sector banks.
3:41:35How did they recover 14,000 cr? What did
3:41:38they sell? What did they do?
3:41:41They have not given me a statement of
3:41:43account. So you don't know what property
3:41:46shares have been sold. We talked earlier
3:41:48about the properties that were given to
3:41:50them, right?
3:41:53So everything the give walk me through
3:41:56it again if you can please.
3:41:59What were the things that how did they
3:42:00recover 14,000 all my assets and
3:42:03highlight two or three
3:42:05shares which got like 14
3:42:08properties everything they attached and
3:42:11they've sold but in the absence of a
3:42:14statement of account can you believe it
3:42:17right that from
3:42:192017 the date of the DRT order till
3:42:22today
3:42:232025 the banks have not given me a
3:42:27statement of
3:42:28account how
3:42:30much recovery they made on which date,
3:42:34how much interest they have charged, how
3:42:37the interest gets reduced because of
3:42:39recoveries made etc. and what the net
3:42:42position is
3:42:44nothing reminders to the
3:42:47banks from my English lawyers remain
3:42:52unanswered.
3:42:54letters from me personally to the
3:42:56chairman of the SBI remains unanswered
3:43:01and my last letter requesting a meeting
3:43:04to resolve these issues came back with
3:43:07the response saying we are not
3:43:09interested in
3:43:11meeting. I have had to go to the
3:43:13Karnataka High
3:43:15Court to request the court to direct the
3:43:18banks to give me a statement of
3:43:21account. Is this normal?
3:43:24Do you think there is another
3:43:27um example like this anywhere in the
3:43:31world? I mean, it's
3:43:34ridiculous. So, if I'm not
3:43:37targeted, then why am I being treated
3:43:40like this? But
3:43:42recovering all the money that you owed
3:43:45is not as same as you paying them
3:43:48willfully. These are two different
3:43:50things. Yes. So maybe you I made four
3:43:55different settlement offers from in
3:43:58writing from when to when to around 2016
3:44:02including before the Supreme Court of
3:44:04India which the banks dismissed before
3:44:08you left the country you made this. Yes.
3:44:10Yes.
3:44:11Absolutely. Absolutely. I've been trying
3:44:14to settle with the banks. Do you have
3:44:16that proof? Yeah. It's public record.
3:44:19Supreme Court of India records.
3:44:23Absolutely. I would also like to remind
3:44:25you I told the finance minister that I
3:44:28was leaving in 2016 and March and told
3:44:31him that puri please facilitate
3:44:34meeting with the banks to settle this
3:44:36loan issue. You know here's something
3:44:38that don't add up for me. On 29th
3:44:42February
3:44:442016, Supreme Court announced
3:44:48that the plea seeking action against
3:44:52Vijay Malia would be heard on March
3:44:563 and you left on March 2nd. I'm not
3:44:59aware of this Supreme Court directive.
3:45:02How is it possible? Somebody from inside
3:45:05must have told you something because if
3:45:07a Supreme Court declares a date against
3:45:09you. Mhm. How were you not aware? You
3:45:12were already fighting. There were
3:45:13lawyers after lawyers. I'm sure there
3:45:15must be something because there was no
3:45:17such Supreme Court directive. Simple.
3:45:20But it's out there in every media
3:45:23everywhere. But it's written like if you
3:45:26go back if you if you search today all
3:45:28the newspapers online everything that
3:45:30you see it's said that on 29th February
3:45:34Supreme Court directed that and you left
3:45:36on March second but my world council
3:45:38meeting
3:45:40okay
3:45:41obligation and appointment was fixed 3
3:45:44months before that
3:45:46that is okay I'm not saying that so that
3:45:49was already a wellestablished travel
3:45:52plan I once again remind you I told the
3:45:56finance minister himself on the day of
3:45:59my departure but that doesn't mean that
3:46:01you were not aware of this
3:46:04of what I'm I'm sorry I don't get it
3:46:07aware of the fact that Supreme Court has
3:46:09a hearing against you on March 3rd
3:46:11absolutely not there was no such
3:46:13hearing there was no such hearing
3:46:20Supreme Court has said this all Right.
3:46:23So like I have provided you documentary
3:46:26evidence. If I'm shown a piece of paper
3:46:29that states that there was a Supreme
3:46:31Court hearing in my case scheduled on
3:46:34the day of my departure, I March 3rd.
3:46:37You you left on March 2nd. Yeah.
3:46:41So unfortunately I don't have the
3:46:43Supreme Court document but I only have
3:46:44news and news. I am not aware of any
3:46:48such Supreme Court
3:46:50directive. I'm not aware of it.
3:46:54Okay. Then the other case you said once
3:46:56you landed here your passport was
3:46:59revoked. Mhm. You wanted to maybe come
3:47:02back but you were yourself in shock that
3:47:05the passport was revoked. Right. Yes.
3:47:08Tell walk me through the day when you
3:47:10got to know that you can't come back to
3:47:11India.
3:47:12I don't remember the exact date but I
3:47:15like what were you going through when
3:47:17did you get like the moment you got to
3:47:19know that your passport been suspended
3:47:21or revoked yeah but suspension
3:47:25and other forms of restriction would
3:47:28have been
3:47:31um well understood or perceived
3:47:34differently but revocation of a
3:47:37passport it's the most severe form of
3:47:41withdrawal
3:47:42Right. To revoke. Yeah. So because I did
3:47:46not attend the summons of the
3:47:49enforcement
3:47:50directors to which I replied and I said
3:47:53I'm coming back but I need some time. I
3:47:56need to arrange some money to pay off
3:47:58the bank loans etc. Mhm. But they
3:48:01revoked the passport.
3:48:04what
3:48:07they intended to achieve by revocation
3:48:10of my passport. I still do not know. But
3:48:15so on March 2nd you left. March 8th
3:48:19banks informed Supreme Courts that you
3:48:22have left the country.
3:48:25On 15th April your suspension came for
3:48:28your passport. Mhm. revocation the
3:48:31suspension was 15th April 2016 and 24th
3:48:35April was the revocation you know the
3:48:37dates better than me okay fine so from
3:48:4115 to 24 MEA says that because there was
3:48:43no reply from you they had to revoke it
3:48:46why didn't you reply between after 15
3:48:48when you got to know that your your
3:48:49passport getting suspended
3:48:52I replied to them I I don't remember but
3:48:55they revoked the passport I mean that's
3:48:57what matters because you were not
3:49:00replying to them. That's what their
3:49:01reply is. That's what they officially
3:49:03told you. That's what they have said it
3:49:06officially in public. I'm not aware of
3:49:08that. I I didn't go talk to them. I'm
3:49:10not I'm not I can only talk about what I
3:49:12could find online on through newspapers.
3:49:14So that's the only thing unfortunately I
3:49:16could talk about. Sad thing in my case
3:49:18is a lot of people concoct things but
3:49:21it's fine. I mean ultimately the bottom
3:49:23line is the passport was revoked. Yeah.
3:49:26Yeah. So and then and remains revoked.
3:49:30So didn't you fight back? What is there
3:49:33for me to do to get the password? I have
3:49:37to claim my rights under the
3:49:38constitution of India that I have a
3:49:40constitutional right to a passport etc.
3:49:42Yeah. So fight like everyone else like
3:49:44the way you would go back and be like
3:49:46this is wrongfully done to me. So let me
3:49:49get my passport back. I'll fight it. Uh
3:49:53I'll come back to the country. I'll
3:49:54abide by the law and I'll fight in the
3:49:55courts.
3:49:57In your view, how many fronts should
3:50:00somebody open
3:50:04up? How many battles should you open up
3:50:08and engage
3:50:10in? Just
3:50:13everything
3:50:15unlimited. I have enough and more to
3:50:18do, right? And I want to focus my legal
3:50:22battles. Remember
3:50:25they are not only time
3:50:29consuming reading volumes of legal
3:50:31papers is no
3:50:33fun and lawyer lawyer fees are
3:50:36expensive.
3:50:40So, one at a
3:50:42time. But don't you
3:50:45think it makes it worse for you because
3:50:49you didn't come back to the country?
3:50:52They tag you as fugitive, fraud, and all
3:50:54of these are tags because you choose to
3:50:57not come back to the country. If I have
3:51:00a fair assurance of a fair
3:51:03trial and a dignified existence in
3:51:09India, you may be right but I don't.
3:51:12Would you be willing to return to
3:51:14country if you're assured fair time? If
3:51:16I am assured, absolutely I will I will
3:51:18think about it seriously. But you should
3:51:22also be
3:51:23aware
3:51:27that there are other
3:51:30people who the government of India is
3:51:34targeting for extradition from the UK
3:51:37back to India.
3:51:40In whose
3:51:41case they have
3:51:43got judgment from the high court of
3:51:48appeal that Indian detention conditions
3:51:53are violative of article 3 of the
3:51:55constitution of the ECR I'm sorry and
3:51:59therefore they can't be sent back.
3:52:02The plea was
3:52:03basically the prolonged detention
3:52:06without trial for which we all know
3:52:10there are numerous
3:52:12examples. They just lock you up and
3:52:15throw away the key. That's not justice.
3:52:19But you were here extradicted as well,
3:52:22right? You lost the case. It's all
3:52:24right. I mean, I have illegal. They
3:52:26arrested you as well and then they left.
3:52:28They they granted you bail, right? What
3:52:30happened? Normal part of extradition
3:52:33normal that's the procedure what
3:52:35happened with the extradition I think my
3:52:38stay in England is fully legitimate
3:52:43but you lost the case in UK high court
3:52:45right to the Indian authorities there is
3:52:48more than the particular case that you
3:52:51are referring to so there are
3:52:54proceedings ongoing
3:52:56proceedings in this
3:52:58country that's one of the legal battles
3:53:02I'm
3:53:04fighting that I told you about. But if
3:53:07you're assured a fair trial, what do you
3:53:09think is that assurance? What does it
3:53:12look like? What guarantees would you
3:53:14need that you would ever think of
3:53:15considering? That's something for the
3:53:18lawyers to discuss.
3:53:21But if you would agree with me, the
3:53:24conduct and the track record of the CBI
3:53:27and ED in respect of other unfortunate
3:53:30people doesn't inspire too much
3:53:32confidence, does it?
3:53:35I mean, I can rattle off a whole bunch
3:53:37of names of
3:53:38people, right? See let's talk about I
3:53:42also tell you about the fact that in
3:53:44India sadly a business
3:53:48failure is compared or is is equivalent
3:53:52to a fraud. But there are numerous cases
3:53:55of Indian businessmen who have defaulted
3:53:59on loan and they have still stayed in
3:54:01the country and have fought and they
3:54:03have not left the country and that's why
3:54:05people don't call them ch they look them
3:54:07in a bad eye because that's something
3:54:09which socially we are conditioned to
3:54:11look at in that way but they stayed
3:54:14there that's why they've not been called
3:54:17fugitives or chore okay and there are
3:54:20cases like there's so many cases like
3:54:22that fine call me a fugitive for not
3:54:25going to India post
3:54:28March. I didn't run away. I flew out of
3:54:32India on a pre-cheduled visit. Right.
3:54:36Fair enough. I did not return
3:54:39for reasons that I consider are
3:54:44valid. So if you want to call me a
3:54:48fugitive, go ahead. But where's the
3:54:50chore coming from? Where is the chi?
3:54:54Because the agencies in the country,
3:54:57CBI, ED, all the courts, the highest
3:55:00court, they all have found
3:55:03misrepresentation of funds and they have
3:55:06cases against you and they've concluded
3:55:07their cases by saying that your
3:55:10financial transactions were not clean.
3:55:14There's no chy
3:55:16there. You took loan. your company,
3:55:20Kingfisher Airlines, took a loan to
3:55:22revive the company, but then you you
3:55:25took that money and offshored that money
3:55:28into different accounts around the
3:55:30world. That's what the case is
3:55:34about. If I'm not mistaken, I think CBI
3:55:38in 2017, they concluded around 423
3:55:41crores were found. Then ED said
3:55:44something around 3,000 cr had some
3:55:46problem with money laundering. So there
3:55:48were these these numbers I can find
3:55:50exact numbers and I can quote which I
3:55:53found out. No problem. But why like EDS
3:55:57said
3:55:583,547 cr was laundered in 2017. CBI
3:56:03alleged that 423 cr was from Kingfisher
3:56:06Airlines loan was siphoned off for
3:56:08unrelated expenses. Can you explain why
3:56:11that happened? Why these all these
3:56:13agencies are against you and multiple
3:56:16courts are against you and forget this
3:56:18if you're calling India and everybody is
3:56:19a system it's a nexist they all are
3:56:21trying to make you a fraud multiple
3:56:23international
3:56:24courts Swiss Switzerland authorities UK
3:56:28high court one of the courts from UK
3:56:31they also found you guilty for
3:56:33misrepresentation of funds right and
3:56:34they've lost cases Swiss not co Swiss
3:56:37authorities what what about the Swiss
3:56:40authority they've also found that there
3:56:41were transactions
3:56:43authority have found
3:56:46nothing. The Swiss authority froze my
3:56:49children's accounts based on a request
3:56:52by the government of
3:56:55India. They did not adjudicate on
3:56:58anything. The government of India wrote
3:57:00to all these foreign governments saying
3:57:04Vijay Malia and his family's property
3:57:06should be frozen. Right? Only the Swiss
3:57:10acted on it.
3:57:12The French acted on it.
3:57:15Fine. They were not stolen properties or
3:57:19acquired from any money due to uh due
3:57:23from Kingfisher Airlines to the banks.
3:57:26There is absolutely no evidence. The CBI
3:57:28and ED are well known to concoct,
3:57:32fabricate and present false
3:57:35evidence. That's fine. But they have to
3:57:37prove it. As I said, the norm is you are
3:57:40guil you are innocent until you are
3:57:42proven guilty, not the other way around.
3:57:45Now, let me explain the 423
3:57:49crores. In an airline, more than
3:57:5350% of operating costs are in foreign
3:57:56currency. You lease planes, you pay in
3:58:00dollars. Okay? You import spares, you
3:58:02pay in dollars.
3:58:04You have aircraft checks and services
3:58:07you pay in
3:58:09dollars,
3:58:10right? So the money has to go out of
3:58:13India. You can concoct whatever you want
3:58:18and say that money sent out of India
3:58:20means siphoning money. But why are they
3:58:22calling unrelated expenses? If all of
3:58:25these were the expenses for these
3:58:26reasons, they would be related expenses.
3:58:28But that is a question that the CBI must
3:58:32answer. The allegations are against me.
3:58:35I am refuting those
3:58:37allegations. I am saying all these
3:58:39allegations are complete nonsense. And
3:58:41how would you explain 3,547 crores which
3:58:44ED has alleged that's not sent out of
3:58:48India. That is the borrowing from the
3:58:51banks.
3:58:53But they claim it has been laundered.
3:58:56What is launder? If if I laundered it
3:58:58means what are you suggesting? I stole
3:59:00it. What is laundered? Laundered to me
3:59:04is trying to turn cash to check and
3:59:08check to cash. That's laundering.
3:59:11Right? If they say I've laundered the
3:59:14money, what are they saying I did with
3:59:16that money? Did I steal
3:59:19it? Did I fund my lifestyle with it?
3:59:25What is the essence? What is the charge
3:59:27of laundering? Here's the basic case.
3:59:30Let me try to explain you what a common
3:59:34man in India understands about your case
3:59:37in very basics
3:59:38language. If I borrow 100 rupees from a
3:59:41bank, I use 50 rupees from that money to
3:59:45buy a property outside India and I only
3:59:49have 50 left and that 50 I spent in my
3:59:52business trying to make it work. And
3:59:54then when the banks are asking me to get
3:59:56the money, I say I don't have any money.
3:59:59Mhm. Now banks are not saying that why
4:00:01did you burn the 50 rupees in making the
4:00:03business work. They are questioning why
4:00:05did you transfer this 50 rupees to buy
4:00:08something else outside. So that is the
4:00:10whole case and in your case numbers are
4:00:12outrageous. So where is any iota of
4:00:16evidence that I used even one rupee of
4:00:19kingfisher airlines funds to acquire
4:00:21overseas
4:00:23properties? There is no such allegation.
4:00:25So what are CBI and ED concluding then
4:00:29what they have won cases in India.
4:00:31They've concluded certain things and
4:00:32that's why they're fighting on some
4:00:33grounds. Why would UK courts even
4:00:37entertain if there's no proof? Why would
4:00:40anybody okay entertain what
4:00:45Indian CBI
4:00:47authorities action against you or case
4:00:50against you if there's no proof? The job
4:00:53of the UK court is only to establish and
4:00:57determine whether there is a primma facy
4:01:01case to be sent to
4:01:04trial.
4:01:06Right. The UK court has not adjudicated
4:01:10and said you are either guilty or
4:01:13innocent. The job of a UK extradition
4:01:17judge is to say is what CBI is saying
4:01:20fine is there a case to be tried in
4:01:23front of a judge. That's the limit. They
4:01:26have determined that. Now it is for the
4:01:29CBI and me to fight it out. Okay. In the
4:01:33court they provide their evidence. I
4:01:36will provide my evidence. Okay. So
4:01:38that's as far as the UK court is
4:01:41concerned. Got it. So it has just got
4:01:43gone to the trial. So absolutely. Okay.
4:01:47What is the allegation?
4:01:49I
4:01:50misrepresented the Kingfisher
4:01:52financials. Yeah. Right. To the IDBI.
4:01:56Yeah. I colluded with the senior
4:01:58management of the IDI to get the
4:02:02loan. Right. And then I misuse the
4:02:06proceeds of that 900 cr
4:02:10loan. That is the three
4:02:13allegations. The
4:02:15allegation sub allegation about Formula
4:02:191 team
4:02:21sponsorship. I responded to you earlier.
4:02:24The Formula 1 team sent
4:02:27back 10 million pounds to King Fisher
4:02:31Airlines to help it. All
4:02:35right. They brought in Royal Challengers
4:02:38Bangalore as a cricket team. That was a
4:02:41sponsorship
4:02:43money
4:02:45paid right for the umpire's
4:02:48uniform where it said Fly King Fisher.
4:02:51It was a pure for advertising. Of
4:02:54course, the CBI says it was misuse of
4:02:58funds. Fair enough. Everybody's entitled
4:03:01to their opinion. But when the case is
4:03:04tried before a judge, it is the judge
4:03:06who will decide who is right, who wrong,
4:03:10whether this tantamounts to siphoning or
4:03:12diversion or improper
4:03:15use in terms of the
4:03:18collusion, right? There is not an iota
4:03:22of proof. Not an iota of proof.
4:03:26I met chairman Agarwal
4:03:30twice and in two meetings along with
4:03:33four other executive directors of IDBI
4:03:37bank. Is it at all
4:03:39conceivable that I would be able to make
4:03:42some sort of corrupt backhanded
4:03:44arrangement with them? Absolutely not.
4:03:48But the loan was subsequently approved
4:03:51by the IDBI board.
4:03:54if there was something so blatantly
4:03:56wrong in the sanction process because
4:03:59King Fisher didn't meet the norms,
4:04:01right? Kingfisher's financials were
4:04:03weak. Yes, I agree. But the the board of
4:04:07the IDBI bank would have would have
4:04:09found out and commented upon it
4:04:10themselves. They approved it
4:04:13because the CB so the CBI are making
4:04:16allegations all of which are fine. But
4:04:19there is an equally robust defense
4:04:22against these allegations. In the same
4:04:24case when it comes to IDBI and all the
4:04:28or the consortium of banks which gave
4:04:30you loan
4:04:32it is also said that there was an
4:04:34independent agency from UK
4:04:38which put out a brand valuation of 4,100
4:04:41crores. Mhm. on Kingfisher's
4:04:45brand but in reality the brand value was
4:04:48only 160 crores when later was audited
4:04:50by an independent valuer and that was
4:04:53the mismanagement and that was the
4:04:56collusion
4:04:57between you and the IDPI board and
4:05:01stuff that you sold them and you
4:05:04misrepresented the brand value which in
4:05:07reality was not the case.
4:05:10Okay. So let me tell you there was no UK
4:05:12independent agency. Grand thon Grand
4:05:16Thornton is a very very wellestablished
4:05:20accounting company hired by
4:05:23me not by anybody else and the other
4:05:27company was brand
4:05:29finance. Both these companies gave a
4:05:32brand
4:05:33valuation right. I submitted the Grand
4:05:37Thon brand valuation
4:05:40report.
4:05:42Right. The bank took
4:05:49it. I had
4:05:51two recognized
4:05:54valuers submitted
4:05:56one report which they accepted.
4:06:00Now is that fraud on my part? If they
4:06:05didn't want it, they said, "This is not
4:06:07worth the paper it's written on, tear it
4:06:10up and throw it away." I would have done
4:06:14so. It's all very well in hindsight to
4:06:17construct a case with all sorts of
4:06:20frivolous
4:06:22allegations
4:06:24and if it's got to be in a court of law,
4:06:29thrashed out, it will be. But how is
4:06:32Supreme Court favoring all of these
4:06:34then? Because none of my cases in the
4:06:36Supreme Court. Supreme Court ordered you
4:06:38to disclose all your assets on 21st
4:06:42April 2016. Right. July. And they also
4:06:46asked you
4:06:47to pay bank a substantial amount to show
4:06:52your commitment that you're ready to pay
4:06:54everything because you kept saying that
4:06:55you were ready to pay. Mhm. Right. Did
4:06:57you do that? I made all the disclosures
4:06:59under oath on behalf of myself and my
4:07:02entire family including my
4:07:06children. Now what's the case now? Where
4:07:08is this heading in your words? Explain
4:07:12me. Okay, forget all of these things.
4:07:13We'll come back to what happened on 25th
4:07:15February which you are recently which
4:07:17recently you did filing a petition to
4:07:19Karnataka court. Yeah. So let them gives
4:07:22the statement of account. Yeah. So we
4:07:23will come to the least. But in your
4:07:26words, in simple words, summarize me,
4:07:30give me a summary of series of events.
4:07:32What exactly happened and why are you in
4:07:35trouble? If I could just ask you to do
4:07:38it in like next 4 5
4:07:40minutes. You left the country. You
4:07:43didn't intend to leave the country. You
4:07:46were just you just left because there
4:07:49was a pres-scheduled meeting. Then after
4:07:52a month you get to know that you have
4:07:55been suspended. Your passport has been
4:07:57suspended. 8 n days later it gets
4:08:00revoked and since then you're stuck
4:08:01here. Mhm. In middle of it you get the
4:08:05extradition process gets started. Two
4:08:08times you get arrested but you grant you
4:08:10have been granted
4:08:11bail. The case gets to trial. Now CBI,
4:08:16ED, the government in India, everybody
4:08:20finds you guilty people. Nobody found me
4:08:22guilty. I mean that's what they they're
4:08:24calling it, right? They're giving you
4:08:25names. Okay. Everybody has given you a
4:08:26tag of let's just not use the word
4:08:28guilty.
4:08:30CBI hasn't taken place of guilt doesn't
4:08:33arise. Yeah. So CBI, ED, multiple
4:08:36courts, the government, people of India,
4:08:41everybody calls you a fugitive, fraud,
4:08:42chore. Mhm. bunch of different things,
4:08:45anchors, news, media, everybody calls
4:08:48you that, right? And you have been
4:08:52publicly publicly on through your
4:08:55Twitter on multiple occasions. You have
4:08:57been saying that hey, I want to pay the
4:08:59money. I want to pay the money. I really
4:09:02want banks to listen to me. And you have
4:09:04been very clear about it. There have
4:09:05been multiple attempts from your side.
4:09:07And again and again authorities
4:09:10commenting
4:09:11that though there has been an attempt
4:09:14from your side but the
4:09:16effectiveness of it needs to be
4:09:19questioned. The seriousness of it needs
4:09:22to be questioned. Right? This is what
4:09:23the case is. But in all in all in
4:09:28summary people call you chore. People
4:09:30call you fugitive. People call you
4:09:32fraud. Now explain me in summary what is
4:09:35your side of story.
4:09:37We've gone through the whole thing but I
4:09:38want to understand just in short brief
4:09:40the way I explained what is what is the
4:09:44root cause for all this
4:09:48money there is no other criminal
4:09:51allegation against me it's all about
4:09:52money
4:09:55right I showed you the debt recovery
4:09:58certificate amount 6203
4:10:01crores I've shown you the ministry of
4:10:04finance report 14,000 100
4:10:08recovered. The question to be determined
4:10:11now is has the money been recovered or
4:10:15not? Once the
4:10:17money has been fully recovered including
4:10:21interest,
4:10:22right? The root cause is taken care of.
4:10:26No, the root cause is intention.
4:10:29Sorry, the root cause is intention. Root
4:10:32cause is not money and recovery of the
4:10:34money. It started like that. The root
4:10:37cause of your case is intention. You had
4:10:39the money and you still didn't pay. That
4:10:41is what we're fighting. That is what
4:10:43everybody thinks that you that's why if
4:10:46I answer the question, what was the
4:10:50share values then and what are they at
4:10:52the time of recovery? You'll get your
4:10:54answer. The share value went up
4:10:56tremendously. Therefore, they could
4:10:58recover two and a half times the debt.
4:11:03Back in 2016, the values of all the
4:11:06securities were barely would cover the
4:11:09debt recovery
4:11:12certificates. So there was a huge
4:11:14appreciation in the value of my shares
4:11:17held. So it's fine. The root cause and
4:11:23cause or lost to public to the common
4:11:28man Indian
4:11:31taxpayer is the money which has
4:11:35been more than recovered. Right? Fine.
4:11:38I'm ready to face trial for
4:11:41intention. So if they want to convict me
4:11:44for bad
4:11:46intention, I'll fight it. Win or lose,
4:11:49I'll fight it.
4:11:52But you have a problem
4:11:54with they calling you chore because
4:11:56you've repaid the money. Yeah, I'm
4:12:00probably the only chore who is being
4:12:03called chore after repaying two and a
4:12:05half times. But it's okay. I mean it's
4:12:08part of life. You also filed a petition
4:12:10in Karnataka High Court, right? What's
4:12:12happening there? I don't know. That
4:12:14petition as I told you was simply to
4:12:18direct the blank banks to provide a
4:12:20statement of account which once again I
4:12:23find exceptionally strange. I mean this
4:12:25probably the only example globally where
4:12:28banks do not render a statement of
4:12:31account. But if you say that you've
4:12:33recovered everything and if bank provide
4:12:35you the statement would you be open for
4:12:39an independent audit? Of course, anytime
4:12:42I'm open for it now on all your
4:12:45financial transactions. No problem.
4:12:48There's nothing to be hide. Zero.
4:12:50Nothing. Please, anybody can help me.
4:12:55Nothing.
4:12:57Then if according to you the case is
4:13:00this clean okay and the authorities are
4:13:04questioning it the media is questioning
4:13:05it. Do you think you flying out of India
4:13:09just made your case worse? Maybe it did
4:13:12but I flew out on a pre-arranged
4:13:15commitment with no
4:13:18uh court directive as you seem to
4:13:20suggest that I must be
4:13:23there. it. I
4:13:27went to Geneva for a
4:13:31meeting and
4:13:33then you know the media fur that broke
4:13:37out and the
4:13:40environment was too
4:13:42hot and too hostile and certainly not
4:13:48conducive for an immediate return.
4:13:51Plus, I needed to sell some
4:13:55securities to overseas business partners
4:13:58in order to generate more money to pay
4:14:01these banks, which I've been trying to
4:14:03sort of repay since 2016. Maybe not in
4:14:08the quantum that finally has
4:14:10resulted. I
4:14:12mean, the banks have got lucky, isn't
4:14:15it? Getting 4,100 crores because of the
4:14:18appreciation of my shares.
4:14:2114,000.
4:14:25If I don't want to say I don't want to
4:14:29comment on others. I might as well just
4:14:30focus on my own
4:14:33business. It's not fair. I'm not the
4:14:35type of person who comments about other
4:14:38people.
4:14:40Do you think people would have still
4:14:42calling you like people would still call
4:14:43you fraud if
4:14:47I have done whatever I could do? If you
4:14:49would have stayed in India and
4:14:50cooperated with banks,
4:14:53sir, people would not call you for fine.
4:14:56So people are abusing
4:14:59me. Maybe we'll continue to abuse me.
4:15:03There's nothing I can do about
4:15:05it. That's why I kept quiet for 9 years.
4:15:08Is there any proof where you requested
4:15:10banks that I want to settle way before
4:15:13all of this started? Of course, there is
4:15:15proof. Can you give me? Sure. It's part
4:15:17of Supreme Court record. How do we
4:15:20access it? I ask my lawyers to give you
4:15:23a copy. No problem at all. Easily done.
4:15:28Before 2016.
4:15:31Yes. Absolutely.
4:15:35How do you want to be remembered? How do
4:15:36you want Vijay Malia to be remembered?
4:15:38For hopefully
4:15:41for the good things that I might have
4:15:43done. Certainly not
4:15:46for being a jaw.
4:15:53Perfect. All right. Okay. Thank you for
4:15:57doing this. You're welcome.
4:16:00Thank you so much for walking us through
4:16:03every little detail of your case, your
4:16:06life, and what's going on.
4:16:08I just hope
4:16:11that whichever party is right wins and
4:16:16people see it the way you want to
4:16:18deliver it and people see through every
4:16:21little
4:16:22thing
4:16:25which they must have fed in a bad way or
4:16:29wrong way. I don't know which side they
4:16:31will believe. I don't know which side
4:16:33media will believe. I don't know which
4:16:36side the authorities will believe in,
4:16:39but I hope they do the right thing. So,
4:16:41thank you so much for walking us through
4:16:43every little thing. Good. Thanks for
4:16:45being here. Thank you.
4:18:22Thank you so much for watching this
4:18:23episode till the end. I take these kind
4:18:26of episodes with utmost responsibility.
4:18:29I'll see you the next time. Until then,
4:18:31keep figuring out.
4:18:35[Music]

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