Vernon Township Council 7 13 2026 — Transcript

Full transcript

1. 0:06I didn't eat dinner yet.
2. 0:08>> He did tell me it was
3. 0:20>> you. Okay.
4. 0:20>> Yes.
5. 0:21>> Township clerk, please read the
6. 0:23statement.
7. 0:25Regular meeting was provided to the
8. 0:27public and the press on January 22nd
9. 0:30and was posted at
10. 0:33the club
11. 0:36104.
12. 0:39to the flag, please
13. 0:49stand
14. 0:50under
15. 0:54all.
16. 0:58>> Roll call, please.
17. 1:00>> Member
18. 1:01>> here.
19. 1:02>> Council member Ols
20. 1:03>> here.
21. 1:04>> Council member Rudo
22. 1:05>> here.
23. 1:06>> Council member
24. 1:07>> present.
25. 1:09here
26. 1:10have a proclamation to read from the
27. 1:12mayor concerning a park and recreation
28. 1:15month
29. 1:18>> unless you want someone else to read it.
30. 1:20>> Yeah, I was just going to pointing at
31. 1:22that. So I do apologize.
32. 1:24>> Could you read it?
33. 1:25>> Yeah.
34. 1:28uh designation of July as park and
35. 1:30recreation month
36. 1:33whereas parks and recreation programs
37. 1:35are integral part of communication
38. 1:38throughout the country including Vernon
39. 1:40Township, New Jersey. And whereas our
40. 1:44recreation are vitally important to
41. 1:46establishing and maintaining the quality
42. 1:48of life in our communities, ensuring the
43. 1:51health of all citizens and contributing
44. 1:53to economic and environmental well-being
45. 1:56of a community and region. And whereas
46. 1:59parks and recreation programs build
47. 2:02healthy, active communities that aid in
48. 2:04the prevention of chronic disease,
49. 2:07provide therapeutic recreation services
50. 2:10for those who are mentally or physically
51. 2:12disabled, and also improve the mental
52. 2:15and emotional health of all citizens.
53. 2:18And whereas parks and recreation
54. 2:20programs increase a community's economic
55. 2:22prosperity through increased property
56. 2:25values, expansion of local tax base,
57. 2:27increased tourism, the attraction and
58. 2:30retention of businesses, and crime
59. 2:32reduction. And whereas parks and
60. 2:34recreation areas are fundamental to the
61. 2:37environmental well-being of our
62. 2:39community. And whereas parks and natural
63. 2:42recreation areas improve water quality,
64. 2:45attract uh groundwater, preventing
65. 2:47flooding, improve the quality of the air
66. 2:49we breathe, provide vegetate buffers to
67. 2:53develop and provide habitat for
68. 2:55wildlife. And whereas our parks and
69. 2:58natural recreation areas ensure that
70. 3:01ecological beauty of our community and
71. 3:04provide a place for children and adults
72. 3:05to connect with nature and recreate
73. 3:09outdoors. And whereas the US House of
74. 3:12Representatives has designated July as
75. 3:15Parks and Recreation Month. And whereas
76. 3:17Vernon Township, New Jersey recognizes
77. 3:20the benefits derived from parks and
78. 3:22recreation resources. Now therefore, be
79. 3:26it resolved by the Vernon Township
80. 3:28Council that July is recognized as Park
81. 3:31and Recreation Month in Vernon Township,
82. 3:33New Jersey.
83. 3:36>> Thank you very much. Before the mayor's
84. 3:38comments, like to recognize Mr.
85. 3:40Henderson, Alan Henderson
86. 3:43to attend the meetings on occasion.
87. 3:44Thank you,
88. 3:46>> Mayor.
89. 3:47>> Hi. Thank you, Council President. Um I
90. 3:49don't have much to really add other than
91. 3:51just echoing um the importance of
92. 3:56I I didn't
93. 3:58I know it's always the running joke. I I
94. 4:00really didn't think they
95. 4:03value until I got to see how hard they
96. 4:07work and how they're so responsible for
97. 4:10bringing this community together and
98. 4:11they do it
99. 4:13doing it. So again, thank you to
100. 4:15Michelle and Meg again for all that hard
101. 4:17work and thank you to everyone who
102. 4:19participated in the car show if anybody
103. 4:22was there. But it was a event again and
104. 4:25growowns.
105. 4:27Um so again this is what people enjoy.
106. 4:31They love uh coming together and and
107. 4:33doing events and I I think it's
108. 4:36something that uh should be valued a
109. 4:38little bit more and I think uh a lot of
110. 4:39people want to see it more. So that's
111. 4:41it. But that's uh that's all my
112. 4:42comments.
113. 4:45Thank you very much. Next will be public
114. 4:48comment. This is limit to three minutes
115. 4:50per person and it has to be an item
116. 4:52that's on the agenda. If you care to
117. 4:54speak, please come up to the microphone,
118. 4:56state your name, and whatever you care
119. 4:59to speak about. Everybody's welcome.
120. 5:05>> Open the floor.
121. 5:07>> Do we have a motion to open it to the
122. 5:09public?
123. 5:11>> Second.
124. 5:12Second.
125. 5:13>> All in favor?
126. 5:14>> I
127. 5:20>> seeing no members of the public come
128. 5:21forward. May I have a motion to close
129. 5:23the meeting to the public?
130. 5:24>> Move.
131. 5:25>> Second.
132. 5:26>> All in favor?
133. 5:27>> I.
134. 5:28>> Next is a review of the bills list. Any
135. 5:30comments from the council on the bills
136. 5:32list?
137. 5:32>> I do have
138. 5:33>> I do too.
139. 5:34>> Okay. Start with Carl then Sandy. Um,
140. 5:37starting with 60 uh 66203
141. 5:42uh grant writing at the district, do we
142. 5:45have a designated grant writer or is
143. 5:48this employee doing it kind of on the
144. 5:50side?
145. 5:51>> We have a uh we hired a grant writing
146. 5:53company.
147. 5:55>> No, wait, wait, wait. Is that the one?
148. 5:57>> Yeah, right.
149. 5:58>> Yeah, that's class F. One of our
150. 6:01employees took
151. 6:02>> Yeah, that's that's the name of the
152. 6:03class somebody's taking.
153. 6:04>> Oh, okay. So, she's not writing grants.
154. 6:07>> No, she took a class to help.
155. 6:08>> I thought the same thing.
156. 6:09>> We do have a company like the mayor was
157. 6:11saying. Um, but she also took a class to
158. 6:16uh, you know, like some of the smaller
159. 6:18grants that we get. We don't have to use
160. 6:20the company. She can go ahead and do it.
161. 6:23>> So, we're kind of helping do something
162. 6:25in house that we're currently
163. 6:26outsourcing.
164. 6:27>> Yes.
165. 6:28>> Okay. Thank you. And then there's
166. 6:29another question. Um, it's a 662000.
167. 6:34Um, Jenner 010 Inc. for general code.
168. 6:39Codification.
169. 6:41What is that?
170. 6:42>> Modification.
171. 6:43>> Modification of our ordinances.
172. 6:45>> Oh, okay.
173. 6:48That was it. Questions I had.
174. 6:51>> Sandra. Well, I was just looking um six
175. 6:556 22
176. 6:59um Legends Redevelopment
177. 7:0314,000
178. 7:07>> What's that about? If anybody knows
179. 7:13>> what is it
180. 7:14>> like who's that
181. 7:15>> development?
182. 7:16>> Yeah,
183. 7:16>> McManaman.
184. 7:17>> Who's that going to? H that's
185. 7:20>> uh the developer pays for that. Um but
186. 7:24again it comes through we collect a um
187. 7:27>> escrow
188. 7:27>> an escrow account. Um they fund that
189. 7:30escrow and that pays for legal or
190. 7:33planning or uh engineering. So it gets
191. 7:37paid so it doesn't come out of taxpayer
192. 7:39money.
193. 7:39>> So this is coming out of escrow.
194. 7:42>> Yes.
195. 7:43>> Okay. How would we know that?
196. 7:48Like by looking at this like because I'm
197. 7:50looking at and thinking well you know
198. 7:52it's coming out of our money.
199. 7:54>> Yeah. No. Um
200. 7:55>> is there a way that I would be able to
201. 7:56tell it's coming out of escrow or
202. 7:58somebody else's money?
203. 8:03>> I know what Edmond reports don't run it
204. 8:06that way.
205. 8:07>> No,
206. 8:07>> but this is definitely coming out of
207. 8:09their escrow.
208. 8:10>> I would you're
209. 8:11>> Yeah. Yeah. Irene makes makes Irene
210. 8:13always makes sure that um that
211. 8:15especially when they go low on their
212. 8:16balance that that she's on top of them
213. 8:19to make sure they they put enough and we
214. 8:21usually get um estimates on what certain
215. 8:24things will cost. Um and then and then
216. 8:27we we
217. 8:29uh communicate that to them and then
218. 8:31they'll go ahead and they'll cut us a
219. 8:33check to to fund that. We do that with
220. 8:35every developer. Um this way it doesn't
221. 8:38cost the township any money.
222. 8:45Okay. Can you assure me it's coming out
223. 8:47of their escrow on an account?
224. 8:49>> Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
225. 8:50>> Okay. Thank you.
226. 8:52>> It's a standard practice.
227. 8:54>> Well, yeah, but I would like to be able
228. 8:56to identify that to make sure
229. 8:59looking at this, you would think we paid
230. 9:01for it.
231. 9:03>> Okay.
232. 9:04>> Yeah, it goes it goes to us, but it we
233. 9:05pay them through obviously we pay them
234. 9:08out of our escrow. So yeah, it looks
235. 9:10like it's it's coming out of our money
236. 9:12per se, but it's their money in escrow.
237. 9:14So
238. 9:14>> okay,
239. 9:15>> and they usually hold a balance of of
240. 9:17several thousands. So
241. 9:19>> then once a project is done, whatever's
242. 9:22left and we cut them to check back
243. 9:24whatever's left.
244. 9:26Nine out of 10 times ain't much left.
245. 9:31Any others?
246. 9:42Oh, no. No. Thank you for asking.
247. 9:45>> I just have one quick one. I just saw it
248. 9:47because it's on that same page on 66223.
249. 9:52Small amount, $1,255. It's a duplicate
250. 9:55tax refund. We're We're duplicating a
251. 9:58tax refund or what's I don't understand
252. 10:00what that means. So what happens is when
253. 10:03sometimes when people pay off their
254. 10:05houses
255. 10:06coming yeah you're getting when the they
256. 10:08pay off their houses um Core Logic pays
257. 10:11the bill like because you have a
258. 10:13mortgage but then the homeowner says oh
259. 10:14wait I paid my mortgage off so they pay
260. 10:16the h they so probably Core Logic paid
261. 10:19it and then the resident paid it so then
262. 10:21we have to refund one of them so it okay
263. 10:28any others
264. 10:30Okay.
265. 10:34>> Approval of the minutes. June 22nd, 2026
266. 10:38executive session. I have a motion to
267. 10:41approve June 22nd, 2026 executive
268. 10:43session meeting minutes.
269. 10:45>> Moved.
270. 10:46>> Second.
271. 10:47>> Second.
272. 10:49>> Roll call, please.
273. 10:50>> Council member Canino?
274. 10:52>> Yes.
275. 10:52>> Council member Ols.
276. 10:53>> Uh, yes.
277. 10:54>> Council member Razudo,
278. 10:55>> yes.
279. 10:56>> Council member Sparta,
280. 10:57>> yes. Council President Higgins.
281. 10:59>> Yes.
282. 10:59>> Motion carries.
283. 11:01>> May I have a motion to approve June
284. 11:0222nd, 2026 regular meeting minutes?
285. 11:07>> Moved.
286. 11:08>> So second.
287. 11:09>> Second.
288. 11:10>> Roll call, please.
289. 11:12>> Council member Canino?
290. 11:13>> Yes.
291. 11:14>> Council member Ols.
292. 11:15>> Yes.
293. 11:16>> Council member Rudo,
294. 11:17>> yes.
295. 11:18>> Council member Sparta,
296. 11:19>> yes.
297. 11:19>> Council President Higgins,
298. 11:21>> yes.
299. 11:22>> She carries.
300. 11:23>> Next item is consent agenda. There's a
301. 11:26number of uh resolutions from starting
302. 11:2826 219 through 26 230. If anybody wants
303. 11:35to pull out and have a discussion
304. 11:37separately, let me know which ones
305. 11:39before we vote on the rest.
306. 11:41>> 219
307. 11:42>> 219.
308. 11:42>> Yes, please.
309. 11:44>> Okay.
310. 11:45>> Questions have
311. 11:46>> any uh any others?
312. 11:54Okay.
313. 11:56>> So then would be a motion on resolution
314. 11:58262
315. 12:0020 to
316. 12:01>> through through
317. 12:02>> 26 230
318. 12:02>> 26 230
319. 12:04>> removing 26 219.
320. 12:06>> May I have a motion
321. 12:09for 26220 through 26 230 to approve?
322. 12:14>> Second.
323. 12:15>> Roll call, please.
324. 12:17>> Council member Kino.
325. 12:19>> Yes.
326. 12:19>> Council member Owens. Yes.
327. 12:21>> Council member Fudo.
328. 12:22>> Yes.
329. 12:23>> Sparta.
330. 12:24>> Yes.
331. 12:24>> Federal.
332. 12:26>> Yes.
333. 12:28>> Have a motion to discuss 26-219.
334. 12:32>> Okay. So, I just have some questions.
335. 12:34>> Make the motion.
336. 12:35>> Oh, sorry. Motion.
337. 12:38>> Second.
338. 12:39>> I'm sorry.
339. 12:40>> Discussion.
340. 12:40>> I made the motion. Sandy to discuss.
341. 12:43>> Second. All in favor?
342. 12:45>> I.
343. 12:47>> Okay.
344. 12:48>> Yes. So my question is just about these
345. 12:50three vehicles. Um one being a Tahoe.
346. 12:54Now first are we replace are three
347. 12:57vehicles going back to Enterprise and
348. 12:59we're replacing three vehicles or are
349. 13:01these just three vehicles we're getting?
350. 13:04>> No, we're replacing them.
351. 13:06>> So I know we had a pickup truck. So that
352. 13:08one's going back.
353. 13:10>> Is that what's on here?
354. 13:12>> The new one's coming.
355. 13:14>> We're always replacing um
356. 13:16>> the F-150.
357. 13:17>> Yes. So, the first one, the F-150, the
358. 13:21first quote is to vehicle 308.
359. 13:24>> Okay.
360. 13:25>> Um, it's a 2022 Ford F150.
361. 13:28>> Okay.
362. 13:29>> All right. The second one, uh, the next
363. 13:32replacement is for vehicle 316.
364. 13:36It's a white 2022
365. 13:38Ford Police Interceptor SUV. And then
366. 13:43the last one is an admin vehicle they're
367. 13:45replacing.
368. 13:47um 2023 the Dodge Durango
369. 13:51um because of inflated costs.
370. 13:56>> So why a Tahoe? Isn't that a little
371. 14:00overkill for an admin car? And it's got
372. 14:03a big price tag on it,
373. 14:05>> right?
374. 14:06>> They're all police cars.
375. 14:08>> Oh,
376. 14:09>> they're all three of these vehicles are
377. 14:11with the police.
378. 14:12>> Oh, I thought you just said replacing an
379. 14:14admin car.
380. 14:14>> But they have admin cars. a police admin
381. 14:17car.
382. 14:18>> They have to have that as their admin
383. 14:20car at Tahoe. I mean, that's a big price
384. 14:23tag on here, but you're replacing it
385. 14:26with something else. This is a
386. 14:28replacement.
387. 14:29>> Yes.
388. 14:29>> Did they have a Tahoe in the past?
389. 14:32>> So, I think my understanding is that's
390. 14:34the one you were saying. I think the
391. 14:35reason why we're getting this one
392. 14:36because that one when we bought it, I
393. 14:38think this is going to be
394. 14:39>> it's replacing a Durango.
395. 14:40>> Durango.
396. 14:41>> Durango. Yes, it went. I believe it's
397. 14:45>> And just another note too that we're uh
398. 14:47we we tried to go with the Durangos
399. 14:50because they were a little cheaper and
400. 14:52they have been nothing but problems.
401. 14:54We've had to replace engines in them
402. 14:56already. They're brand new. They've
403. 14:58become a disaster for us. So,
404. 14:59>> but isn't that on them Enterprise to
405. 15:02replace and
406. 15:03>> Well, yeah. I mean, yes. So, that
407. 15:06>> sold down vehicle
408. 15:07>> down and you're taking them service. So,
409. 15:09we just we don't find them to be that
410. 15:11reliable. Um, so we're going to continue
411. 15:14on with the interceptors going forward.
412. 15:19>> Okay.
413. 15:21>> Anything but the dodge. So, I like the
414. 15:23dodge, too. But
415. 15:25>> I had a question on the same resolution.
416. 15:27Tina, I sent you a an email today. So,
417. 15:31we're leasing this equipment through uh
418. 15:33Enterprise.
419. 15:34>> Yes. And we're using source as the
420. 15:37vehicle, not the vehicle, the car, but
421. 15:39the way of processing the uh
422. 15:42>> that's the co-op that
423. 15:43>> that's the co-op. So my question there's
424. 15:45a there's a cost to that typically
425. 15:48somewhere between 12 and 15%. Sourcewell
426. 15:51is in it to make money. Sourcewell owns
427. 15:53the co-op. They go around the country to
428. 15:56municipalities and say, "We have a
429. 15:58co-op. If you want to use it, please do.
430. 16:01It's a good purchasing vehicle and you
431. 16:03pay us a fee. There are a lot of
432. 16:05companies that say we don't need
433. 16:08Sourcewell or we don't need the other
434. 16:10people like Sourcewell and usually
435. 16:12they're the bigger companies like
436. 16:14Enterprise. They have their own
437. 16:16purchasing contract. They they short
438. 16:18circuit it so that their customer, the
439. 16:21municipality, can lease off of their own
440. 16:24contract. It have I'm in that business.
441. 16:26I I do it all the time and I represent a
442. 16:30company that just went out and got their
443. 16:31own state contract. Up until this year,
444. 16:34before they got their state contract, we
445. 16:36had to go to the source wells and the
446. 16:38others to say, "Okay, will you do
447. 16:41business with this municipality and how
448. 16:43much will it cost?" So, it's a a good
449. 16:46question for enterprise. Do you have
450. 16:48your own contract? And if you don't, I'd
451. 16:50really be surprised because they're a
452. 16:52national company and they should have
453. 16:54their own contract. makes it easier for
454. 16:56them, makes it less expensive for the
455. 16:58end user, the municipality, and and we
456. 17:02uh save some money. It's a good question
457. 17:04for them.
458. 17:06>> So,
459. 17:08we go we use those companies off of
460. 17:11Sourcewell because Sourcewell will go
461. 17:13out to bid to get the the you know, the
462. 17:15cheaper prices with the companies. So,
463. 17:17that saves us from us having to go out
464. 17:21to bid. So we we look at that. We see
465. 17:25what vendors are on there and then we
466. 17:27know that when we are going to get in
467. 17:29touch with enterprise we're going to get
468. 17:32a quote from them and then they're going
469. 17:34to come back with a quote and it's going
470. 17:36to be the better price because they're
471. 17:38already been bidded through source well.
472. 17:41>> Yeah. The the one question to ask
473. 17:43enterprise is do you have your own
474. 17:44contract? Okay would be the question.
475. 17:46They may Ford may have their own, you
476. 17:48know, Chrysler may have their own,
477. 17:50whoever is in that business. And if they
478. 17:53do, that's just short circuiting another
479. 17:55cost.
480. 17:55>> Cut the middleman out.
481. 17:56>> Yeah. Yeah,
482. 17:58>> I hear you.
483. 18:01>> Any other questions on 26 219?
484. 18:05Have a motion to uh
485. 18:08move on 26219.
486. 18:11>> Second.
487. 18:12>> All in favor? 26 219. I'll have to do a
488. 18:15roll call.
489. 18:15>> You need a roll call. Okay. Roll call on
490. 18:1826219.
491. 18:19>> Council member.
492. 18:21>> Yes.
493. 18:21>> Council member Holmes.
494. 18:22>> Yes.
495. 18:23>> Council member Rudo.
496. 18:24>> Yes.
497. 18:25>> Council member.
498. 18:26>> Yes.
499. 18:27>> Council President Higgins.
500. 18:28>> Yeah.
501. 18:28>> Motion, please.
502. 18:31>> Next up, public hearing, adoption of
503. 18:33ordinances.
504. 18:34>> Ordinance
505. 18:356-12, establishing the salaries of
506. 18:38certain officers employees, township of
507. 18:40Vernon, county of Sussex State, New
508. 18:42Jersey. I have a motion to open the
509. 18:45public hearing of ordinance 26-20.
510. 18:50>> Second. All
511. 18:51>> in favor? Any
512. 18:52>> oppose?
513. 18:55Any any members of the public wishing to
514. 18:58come forward? May I have a motion to to
515. 19:01open it up to the public on 2612?
516. 19:06>> We have we have a motion already.
517. 19:08>> Okay.
518. 19:10>> And a second. Any members of the public
519. 19:12wish to come forward?
520. 19:16Seeing no members of the public, I have
521. 19:18a motion to close to the public.
522. 19:20>> Moved. Second.
523. 19:22>> Roll call.
524. 19:26>> And all in favor?
525. 19:28>> All in favor?
526. 19:29>> I.
527. 19:32>> Motion to adopt.
528. 19:34>> And have a motion to adopt 2612. Motion.
529. 19:38>> Second.
530. 19:40Second. Roll call.
531. 19:45>> No.
532. 19:45>> No.
533. 19:46>> Council member Ols.
534. 19:47>> Yes.
535. 19:48>> Council member Rudo.
536. 19:49>> Yes.
537. 19:50>> Council member Sparta.
538. 19:51>> Yes.
539. 19:52>> Council President Higgins.
540. 19:53>> Yes.
541. 19:57Ordinance 26-14
542. 19:59bond ordinance appropriating 5,700,000
543. 20:03and authorizing the issuance of 5,33,000
544. 20:07bonds or notes of the township for
545. 20:09various improvements or purposes
546. 20:11authorized be undertaken by the township
547. 20:14of Vernon County of Sussex, New Jersey.
548. 20:17May I have a motion to open the public
549. 20:18hearing for 26-14?
550. 20:22>> Move.
551. 20:22>> Second. All in favor?
552. 20:27>> Anyone from public?
553. 20:28>> Any members of the public wishing to
554. 20:29come forward? May I have a motion or any
555. 20:32any members of public coming forward?
556. 20:34Please do do so.
557. 20:38>> Seeing none, motion to close.
558. 20:39>> Seeing no members of public have a
559. 20:41motion to close to the public.
560. 20:43>> Moved.
561. 20:45>> Second.
562. 20:47>> Any second?
563. 20:48>> Second.
564. 20:49>> All in favor?
565. 20:50>> I. May I have a motion to adopt
566. 20:53ordinance 26-14?
567. 20:56>> Moved.
568. 20:57>> Have a second.
569. 20:59>> Second.
570. 21:00>> Roll call, please.
571. 21:03>> Council member Canino?
572. 21:04>> Yes.
573. 21:05>> Council member,
574. 21:06>> no.
575. 21:07>> Council member Ruro,
576. 21:09>> yes.
577. 21:09>> Council member Sparta,
578. 21:11>> yes.
579. 21:11>> Council President Higgins,
580. 21:13>> yes.
581. 21:15>> Council President, may I have a moment
582. 21:17to make a comment?
583. 21:18>> Yes, sir.
584. 21:21question for our CFO.
585. 21:24Um, in your preparation for the budget
586. 21:28through this past year, how much did we
587. 21:30reduce our
588. 21:32uh cost for paying off? You know, how
589. 21:35much our bonding was paid off?
590. 21:38>> How much extra we're paying down on the
591. 21:40bonds?
592. 21:40>> The existing bonds. Yeah.
593. 21:42>> I believe it was 600,000.
594. 21:44>> 600,000.
595. 21:45And um
596. 21:46>> but I will confirm
597. 21:48>> and right now uh the
598. 21:53our bond debt bond debt asset ratio is
599. 21:57less than
600. 22:0088.
601. 22:02>> Yeah, I don't have that number. I'm
602. 22:03sorry. I don't have
603. 22:04>> I believe it is. So, I I just don't want
604. 22:06the public to believe that, you know,
605. 22:08we're less than one penny, you know, uh
606. 22:13for the uh for the level of uh
607. 22:18debt uh for uh for the count for the
608. 22:22township and I I just thought I should
609. 22:25bring that up.
610. 22:26>> What is our total debt?
611. 22:30>> I don't have I can get you that number.
612. 22:33because we have it between notes and
613. 22:35bonds. I would have to get that number.
614. 22:38>> I can get to
615. 22:39>> about 36 million
616. 22:40>> 36
617. 22:41>> in that area.
618. 22:42>> Okay. Again,
619. 22:44came in running with one thing and
620. 22:47trying to catch up with everything. So,
621. 22:48>> no worries.
622. 22:50>> If I'm off, please let me know.
623. 22:52>> What did you say it was?
624. 22:54>> About 36 million total.
625. 22:56>> I will I will get you guys that
626. 22:58information.
627. 22:59>> I want to do the prices right.
628. 23:02without going over.
629. 23:04>> At the last meeting, we read uh or I
630. 23:07read all the various items that this
631. 23:09money was going to be used for. Roads,
632. 23:12fire truck, large items, all needed.
633. 23:15>> Also to um
634. 23:18uh Councilwoman had me at the um online
635. 23:23put at the end the capital sheet. So
636. 23:28it's also uh online for anyone who like
637. 23:31to see what it we were going out for
638. 23:33debt. So the sheet that we had given to
639. 23:36council saying what's getting paid by
640. 23:38reserves and what's getting paid by it
641. 23:40is online also.
642. 23:41>> Oh the total debt.
643. 23:42>> Well well not the total debt total what
644. 23:44we're going that the backup for this
645. 23:46this uh 500.
646. 23:48>> No what's our total debt
647. 23:50>> she doesn't know
648. 23:51>> that I don't know but that is also
649. 23:53online. It is our our annual debt
650. 23:55statement is online also. So that is
651. 23:57also available online.
652. 24:02>> Any other questions on that pass?
653. 24:05>> Thank you.
654. 24:07>> Okay. Ordinance 26-15 ordinance
655. 24:10providing for various improvements or
656. 24:12purposes to be undertaken by the
657. 24:14township of Vernon County of Sussex, New
658. 24:16Jersey, and appropriating $281,280
659. 24:21from the various funds of the township.
660. 24:25May I have a motion to open the public
661. 24:27hearing ordinance 26-15?
662. 24:32>> Move.
663. 24:34>> Second.
664. 24:35>> Second. Second. All in favor?
665. 24:37>> I
666. 24:39Anyone from the public?
667. 24:43>> All in favor?
668. 24:44>> Anyone from the public?
669. 24:46>> Any any of the members of the public
670. 24:47wishing to come forward
671. 24:50for 2615?
672. 24:53Seeing no members of the public coming
673. 24:54forward, may I have a motion to close
674. 24:56the public hearing for 26-15?
675. 25:00>> Moved.
676. 25:01>> Second.
677. 25:01>> All in favor?
678. 25:02>> I.
679. 25:06>> May I have a motion to adopt ordinance
680. 25:0826-15?
681. 25:10>> So moved.
682. 25:12>> Second.
683. 25:14>> Call.
684. 25:19>> Yes.
685. 25:20>> Member Rudo.
686. 25:21>> Yes. Council member Sparta,
687. 25:23>> yes.
688. 25:23>> Council President Higgins,
689. 25:25>> yes.
690. 25:28>> Ordinance 26-16, an ordinance amending
691. 25:31the Vernon Township Administrative Code,
692. 25:34chapter 250, fees and escros, section
693. 25:37250-16,
694. 25:40zoning and land use. May I have a motion
695. 25:43to open a public hearing for ordinance
696. 25:462616?
697. 25:47>> Some moved.
698. 25:49>> Second. All in favor?
699. 25:54>> Anyone from the member of the public
700. 25:56comment
701. 25:58forward? See no members of the public
702. 26:00wishing to come forward. We have a
703. 26:02motion to close the public hearing on 26
704. 26:06moved.
705. 26:08>> Second.
706. 26:10All in favor?
707. 26:11>> I have a motion to adopt ordinance
708. 26:1426-16.
709. 26:16Moved.
710. 26:18>> Have a second. Second.
711. 26:21Roll call, please.
712. 26:23>> Yes.
713. 26:25>> Yes.
714. 26:27>> Yes.
715. 26:28>> Yes.
716. 26:31>> Yes.
717. 26:33>> Item 12, public comment. Limited to five
718. 26:36minutes. Anyone from the public on any
719. 26:39topic?
720. 26:41Anyone wishing to speak, state their
721. 26:43name for the record. We have a motion
722. 26:47open to the public. Moved. Second. All
723. 26:50in favor? I
724. 26:52>> Anyone from the public care to come
725. 26:53forward? Yes, ma'am.
726. 26:59>> Angelina B with 20 Burger Road in
727. 27:02Highland Lakes, New Jersey. Um I don't
728. 27:04know if you guys got an email this
729. 27:06morning that I sent um but I'm just
730. 27:08going to go over it as well in case you
731. 27:10haven't had a chance to read it. Um, so
732. 27:12the proposed ro vacation was denied as
733. 27:14you remember back in February uh 2026
734. 27:18ordinance 26-2
735. 27:20but the D records confirmed that this
736. 27:22remains township on public right away.
737. 27:24However, when I requested there's emails
738. 27:27from 2026 describing the vacation as
739. 27:31quote pending um contradicting your
740. 27:34decision that was made back in February.
741. 27:36Um there's also an invoice um for the
742. 27:39attorney to to the township bill to the
743. 27:41township uh for professional services
744. 27:43reading burger road vacation through
745. 27:46April 30th of 2026 um a balance of 1,395
746. 27:51plus there's a deposit made before that.
747. 27:53So I just like to clarify a few things.
748. 27:55If um what actions did the township take
749. 27:58after the council denied the vacation?
750. 28:01Why did title search with and legal work
751. 28:03continue after the denial? Um, were
752. 28:05there any additional decisions made
753. 28:07after the council without the council
754. 28:09approval? Um, and who's responsible for
755. 28:12the legal fees if it fell on the it was
756. 28:16covered by the verdant taxpayers if
757. 28:18there's an escrow because I didn't get
758. 28:19that information through overall. Um,
759. 28:22additionally, the township engineer did
760. 28:24say that um they never seen a
761. 28:27municipality auction off u right away
762. 28:30before suggesting the non-rine options
763. 28:32were being explored. Um, I did have a I
764. 28:36did submit a complaint to the dog
765. 28:38running at large ordinance. The
766. 28:39complaint was returned without a docket
767. 28:41number explanation regarding the lack of
768. 28:43probable cause and it possibly because
769. 28:45it's not marked at all. It's just the
770. 28:48gravel still. So, nothing has been done
771. 28:50since February of 2026 regarding this.
772. 28:53Um, so I just respectfully request the
773. 28:54township to formally acknowledge the
774. 28:56property as a public rightway and
775. 28:58enforce the applicable ordinances and
776. 29:00mark the boundaries. And lastly, um,
777. 29:03June, I I sent a letter in June, uh, the
778. 29:07neighbor did accuse me of paying off my
779. 29:08neighbors and also council member Carl
780. 29:11Cantino to vote against the vacation of
781. 29:14this road, which obviously is, uh, not
782. 29:16true. And also, it doesn't make sense
783. 29:19because I just want it to be public.
784. 29:20There's no I don't have any interest in
785. 29:22having it public. It's just I was
786. 29:25supposed to be that's
787. 29:28and that's all I'm asking for the um
788. 29:30council to enforce. That's all. Thank
789. 29:33you.
790. 29:34>> Question.
791. 29:35>> Yeah. So, when you put in a complaint,
792. 29:38go to court for the dog.
793. 29:41>> Well, yeah, because there's an invisible
794. 29:43fence um
795. 29:44>> that is installed across the the road
796. 29:47and it's it's just it's just there.
797. 29:49>> And what happened when you went to
798. 29:50court? or did you get a notice back or
799. 29:52what's what's going on with that?
800. 29:54>> Uh, no, it was no probable cause. So, I
801. 29:57I don't know why. I just my assumption
802. 29:59is that maybe because it's not paved and
803. 30:02you can't really tell where the
804. 30:03boundaries are. Um, you know, obviously
805. 30:05you could have pictures, but you it's
806. 30:07really hard to tell unless you have a
807. 30:09paved road that shows you this is where
808. 30:11it ends, this is where the public
809. 30:12property ends, this is where private uh
810. 30:14property begins. Um, I just got a sticky
811. 30:17note saying that it's us and that's it.
812. 30:20So, I didn't get anything in writing as
813. 30:22to why is that I have a question for the
814. 30:25lawyer. When you file a complaint,
815. 30:30do you just get cuz she's saying she got
816. 30:32a sticky note that said no probable
817. 30:34cause? Doesn't everybody get a day in
818. 30:36court and get a docket number?
819. 30:38>> Yeah, that that is the municipal
820. 30:39>> without a judge saying it. That's the
821. 30:41municipal court which is separate entity
822. 30:43but usually there has to be pro probable
823. 30:44cause
824. 30:46>> and I I have I don't see any I haven't
825. 30:48seen anything but from what the uh
826. 30:50witness is saying or the president is
827. 30:53saying
828. 30:53>> questioning the process
829. 30:54>> well the process is um if if you feel
830. 30:59that someone did something wrong you'd
831. 31:00go down to the municipal court there's a
832. 31:03form that's called the probable cause
833. 31:04form um the municipal judge would review
834. 31:08it to find to see if there's probable
835. 31:10cause. If there's not probable cause,
836. 31:12then they send some type of
837. 31:15correspondence back. I don't know what
838. 31:16their policy or procedure is that they
839. 31:18did not the judge did not find probable
840. 31:20cause.
841. 31:20>> So, but you would get some kind of legal
842. 31:22document and signed.
843. 31:24>> I I again I don't know how they they do
844. 31:26it here. I don't know if that she was
845. 31:29given I don't know I don't know the full
846. 31:31aspects of it and I
847. 31:33>> Yeah. So, the only thing I had was the
848. 31:34sticky note that say no probable cause.
849. 31:36>> How did you get it, ma'am? Did you get
850. 31:37it in the mail? Did you get it? No, I
851. 31:38came to the um to the office.
852. 31:41>> And was that sticky note on your um
853. 31:42>> on my complaint?
854. 31:43>> That?
855. 31:44>> Yeah.
856. 31:44>> Okay.
857. 31:44>> So, I just got a copy of the form back
858. 31:47cuz I wanted a copy and then I just
859. 31:49wanted like a note from the judge
860. 31:50because if it's no problem cause Okay,
861. 31:52that's fine. But I just wanted to get a
862. 31:53note, but I didn't get anything except
863. 31:55the sticky note because I didn't know
864. 31:56why. I'm just assuming it's because it's
865. 31:58that's not paved. There's no boundaries.
866. 32:00But I don't know.
867. 32:01>> So that then the judge read it and found
868. 32:03that there was no probable cause.
869. 32:05>> Yeah. You think they would give her
870. 32:07something more than a sticky note that
871. 32:09says no probable cause on a sticky note
872. 32:12>> without something signed? I mean, I
873. 32:14wouldn't think that would be the normal
874. 32:16problem.
875. 32:16>> I don't know their process or procedure.
876. 32:18>> I mean, yeah, my attorney said it was an
877. 32:21he's never heard of that like a sticky
878. 32:22note, but
879. 32:24>> that's crazy.
880. 32:25>> Again, he's he was the same opinion like
881. 32:26he can't really speak to how the body
882. 32:28works, but it's very odd that it was
883. 32:31Yeah.
884. 32:32>> Okay. Thank you.
885. 32:34>> One more thing.
886. 32:36just went bigger. I they I called Matt
887. 32:39A1 who said no property
888. 32:45client.
889. 32:48>> No. Okay.
890. 32:48>> Can we take a moment to discuss this
891. 32:50though because this has been going on.
892. 32:52>> This is this is not a discussion. This
893. 32:54is um public comment.
894. 32:55>> Well, okay. As soon as you close public
895. 32:58comment, let's discuss it.
896. 33:00>> Um but I don't want to discuss it.
897. 33:02>> Anyone answer any of the questions or
898. 33:03No.
899. 33:04>> No. today
900. 33:05>> which
901. 33:07>> and I can say publicly.
902. 33:09>> Okay. All right. Thank you.
903. 33:16>> Any other members of the
904. 33:23close?
905. 33:24>> Yep. See no other members of the public
906. 33:26wishing to come forward. May I have a
907. 33:27motion to close the meeting to the
908. 33:29public?
909. 33:30>> So moved. Have a
910. 33:31>> second. Second.
911. 33:35Uh, all in favor?
912. 33:38>> All opposed?
913. 33:41Council comments.
914. 33:43>> Start with Carl.
915. 33:45>> So, I wanted to bounce off of what I
916. 33:48just heard. Um, I received that email
917. 33:51with all of the correspondence between
918. 33:54the mayor and multiple attorneys
919. 33:58way after we voted no on that ordinance.
920. 34:01And I can see an invoice for
921. 34:03professional services rendered through
922. 34:06April 30th about the Burger Road
923. 34:08vacation in the amount of $1395.
924. 34:12And I can see all these emails going
925. 34:15back months. Some discussing why we
926. 34:18voted no. Some council members were
927. 34:22concerned about the fact that we were
928. 34:25giving the right of way without money.
929. 34:27Other council members brought up the
930. 34:29lake and how um one of the attorneys did
931. 34:32not feel that that was a valid enough
932. 34:34reason. Why is this going on
933. 34:38after we voted no? That that's what I
934. 34:41can't figure out with this because I
935. 34:43voted no for a myriad of reasons.
936. 34:45Personally, this whole situation makes
937. 34:47me very uncomfortable. I feel like it's
938. 34:49a dispute between two people over their
939. 34:51property and it's not really the town's
940. 34:54place to step in and give away our right
941. 34:57of way in order to resolve that dispute.
942. 34:59I feel like there are better avenues for
943. 35:02solving that problem. I mean, I could go
944. 35:03on about this. I just feel the whole
945. 35:05situation it it doesn't feel kosher to
946. 35:08me. feels like, you know, we as elected
947. 35:11officials are stepping in now on a
948. 35:15dispute between two people and that
949. 35:17that's not really the place of elected
950. 35:19officials. There's police, there's a
951. 35:21court. I mean, I can see you're trying
952. 35:24that, but why are we spending money on
953. 35:27this? Why are we talking with
954. 35:29professionals about this? And why are we
955. 35:32giving opinions on the way that we voted
956. 35:35months after the fact? I mean, I can't
957. 35:37figure out why we're still
958. 35:40talking about it. That's that's what I
959. 35:43want to know because I mean, I can look
960. 35:46through there's 44 pages of emails
961. 35:49between multiple town professionals and
962. 35:51the mayor about this topic
963. 35:54and I get an explanation
964. 35:58>> and the money spent for the title
965. 36:00search. Where's that all Patty? Where's
966. 36:03all that money coming from? Not part of
967. 36:05the escrow
968. 36:06>> for a title, sir.
969. 36:07>> I would have to I would have to see if
970. 36:08it was part of the escrow.
971. 36:09>> I know they had an escrow account.
972. 36:11>> I
973. 36:12>> I'd have to
974. 36:15charge Didn't it get charged to Jessup?
975. 36:18You had Jessup doing it?
976. 36:19>> We talked about earlier. Everything goes
977. 36:21through us.
978. 36:23>> One of the two litigants paid paid for
979. 36:25that escro amount.
980. 36:26>> Yeah, I think it was something like
981. 36:27$2,000, too.
982. 36:29>> But why are we still continuing with
983. 36:31this?
984. 36:32>> Like, we voted no to it. got a problem
985. 36:35with a dog now.
986. 36:36>> Um,
987. 36:37>> but I don't know.
988. 36:38>> This is not a time pardon me.
989. 36:40>> It's not a time to have this. You know,
990. 36:41this there there's two sides to a story,
991. 36:43too. And this not a time where we're
992. 36:45going to go back and forth and have this
993. 36:46discussion.
994. 36:47>> We voted no. Why is this continuing? Oh,
995. 36:50I read those chain of emails.
996. 36:53>> You're still trying to get this done for
997. 36:56this these people that we already voted
998. 36:58no. You're trying to find the historical
999. 37:01data because we don't have much
1000. 37:03information.
1001. 37:04>> Why are you getting involved with it?
1002. 37:06It's a rightaway.
1003. 37:09>> If I wanted to vacate a road near me,
1004. 37:12would you be all gung-ho and working
1005. 37:14with me to get it done?
1006. 37:16>> When when our engineer and our attorneys
1007. 37:18have made that recommendation of
1008. 37:19vacating that road, which basically says
1009. 37:21we don't want anything to do with it,
1010. 37:23that's really keeping our nose out of
1011. 37:25it.
1012. 37:27So that this
1013. 37:28>> but you're saying you're not doing
1014. 37:29anything about it, but you are. You're
1015. 37:31ordering I
1016. 37:32>> I feel like it's just not the town Cory
1017. 37:35Stone or whomever to get it done.
1018. 37:36>> I I don't want anyone to interpret me
1019. 37:39saying that that I don't feel it's the
1020. 37:41town's place as being on the side of one
1021. 37:43person or another. If anything, I'm
1022. 37:46saying that because this is not
1023. 37:48something the township should be getting
1024. 37:49involved in, period. and offering to
1025. 37:52vacate the road to begin with is taking
1026. 37:55a side and getting involved. I I feel
1027. 37:57like we never should have been involved
1028. 37:59in that. But now since we had it on the
1029. 38:02agenda and we voted on it and now I feel
1030. 38:04like both parties feel like we are a
1031. 38:06part of this. I feel like doing
1032. 38:08something like a stakeout or figuring
1033. 38:10out who owns what it
1034. 38:13>> that's what we've been trying to figure
1035. 38:15>> but I think he's talking about staking
1036. 38:17out the road
1037. 38:19>> because they do call the police. both
1038. 38:21parties called the police or the dog
1039. 38:24animal patrol and they don't want to do
1040. 38:26anything because they don't know where
1041. 38:27the road is. So maybe it needs to be
1042. 38:30>> hence why we were doing title searches.
1043. 38:32>> But mayor, when I read those emails,
1044. 38:34it's not just we need to do a title
1045. 38:36search to get this done. It's a
1046. 38:38discussion about what we thought and why
1047. 38:40we voted no and how we can
1048. 38:42>> that was that was besides that that that
1049. 38:44is beyond me. But why why it
1050. 38:46>> it's emails that were sent between you
1051. 38:48and two other people. So, how is it
1052. 38:50beyond you? Forgive me if that sounds
1053. 38:52snippy, but that's how I feel. And I'm
1054. 38:54reading through these and it does not
1055. 38:55seem like we're oh, how can we end this?
1056. 38:59I feel like just figuring out who owns
1057. 39:01what. That's what we're that's what the
1058. 39:03tile surf is for. Trying to find out the
1059. 39:05historical data on that road and then
1060. 39:08that gives us a clear path until that is
1061. 39:10done. Then we have a clear path. But
1062. 39:13that's the whole point you keep talking
1063. 39:14about. You know, we we should know who
1064. 39:17owns the road. That's what we're trying
1065. 39:18to find out. But
1066. 39:19>> mayor, the dispute isn't whether or not
1067. 39:21one of the property owners owns the
1068. 39:23road. It would be whether Lake Wanda or
1069. 39:24the township owns the road. The only
1070. 39:26reason you'd want to know that is if you
1071. 39:27want to give up the
1072. 39:28>> Could be. It could be a property owner
1073. 39:30owns it,
1074. 39:30>> right? That's
1075. 39:31>> it could be could be
1076. 39:33>> it's a little odd that that road goes
1077. 39:34through property lines like that. Very
1078. 39:37odd. That's this is why it it it's it's
1079. 39:40drawn attention as to why that's like
1080. 39:43that. So to try to find the historical
1081. 39:45like where that property could have been
1082. 39:49the original owners and they gave right
1083. 39:51away. Now that the the the uh Lake Wanda
1084. 39:54has been has been debunked. You know,
1085. 39:56does that default back to the owners?
1086. 39:59We're trying to find out the historical
1087. 40:01information on that road. That's all
1088. 40:05this was was to do to to try to help
1089. 40:09dispute to end this this ongoing saga
1090. 40:13between the two neighbors. It's not
1091. 40:14about taking me sides. It's about
1092. 40:16finding out what the historical data is
1093. 40:19on that road and how that got to the way
1094. 40:22it did, which makes no sense. It's very
1095. 40:24bizarre how that road came about and
1096. 40:26those property is separated between a
1097. 40:28road. That's all that was for. So, it
1098. 40:30sounds like there's consensus that the
1099. 40:33two people that are arguing over this
1100. 40:35either have to share the cost or pay do
1101. 40:37a title search and you'll find out who
1102. 40:39owns the property.
1103. 40:41>> Not yet. No.
1104. 40:43>> The title search might be in a way. It
1105. 40:44seems like that's a general idea here. I
1106. 40:47don't know if it's ever been done. You
1107. 40:48may own it all or they may own it all or
1108. 40:51maybe half and half.
1109. 40:52>> But the question,
1110. 40:52>> nobody knows.
1111. 40:53>> But the question arises,
1112. 40:57>> why is the township involving it? Yeah,
1113. 41:00>> we it we there was an attempt to get a
1114. 41:03resolution to this. It did not pass the
1115. 41:06council even though I was one of the
1116. 41:08ones that to uh to to support it. Uh but
1117. 41:13it continues to this day. I don't know
1118. 41:15how much this is costing the township or
1119. 41:19individuals of the township or
1120. 41:22our own
1121. 41:24uh particular uh charges that are being
1122. 41:28assessed to us. But my question is
1123. 41:33why are we involved if there's a P
1124. 41:38procedure that we could that the people
1125. 41:41could follow which would be get an
1126. 41:44attorney bring it to the attention of
1127. 41:46the attorney have the attorney bring it
1128. 41:48to a real estate court and get a
1129. 41:52decision from them as to based upon the
1130. 41:55available information.
1131. 41:57This is the determination of of the
1132. 42:00court.
1133. 42:01Why would the township make that
1134. 42:03determination?
1135. 42:05>> This title search process has begun long
1136. 42:07before your council decision. Mayor
1137. 42:11>> Mayor, wasn't there an issue with regard
1138. 42:12to paving this portion in front of that
1139. 42:14garage?
1140. 42:15>> Well, that was another issue.
1141. 42:16>> Okay.
1142. 42:16>> Mayor, when I read these emails, like I
1143. 42:19just want to read this. This is from
1144. 42:22Corey Stoner. How do you want to
1145. 42:24proceed? I have never seen a
1146. 42:26municipality auction off a right of way
1147. 42:28before. This may be a question to the
1148. 42:31town attorney to provide some direction
1149. 42:33on how to proceed with auctioning off a
1150. 42:36right of way, which is township
1151. 42:37property. So, the way you're phrasing it
1152. 42:40to me is we're doing a title search so
1153. 42:41we can find out who owns what and settle
1154. 42:43the dispute. But then in the email
1155. 42:45chain, you're talking about auctioning
1156. 42:47off the right of way. That doesn't sound
1157. 42:49like you're just trying to end the
1158. 42:50dispute. It sounds partial. And that's
1159. 42:53what's making me uncomfortable about the
1160. 42:55whole situation because we should not
1161. 42:57even be discussing auctioning off a
1162. 42:59rightway. That's for the property owners
1163. 43:01to talk about doing after we find out
1164. 43:03who owns the road in the first place.
1165. 43:06And even then,
1166. 43:07>> right, when we find out who owns the
1167. 43:08road, we can have that discussion.
1168. 43:10>> But then why are you having it already?
1169. 43:12You're talking with the attorney why
1170. 43:15they haven't found it yet.
1171. 43:16>> Yeah, but Jessup is attorney expensive
1172. 43:19than a third party title search company.
1173. 43:22you're using Jessup is probably $200 a
1174. 43:25half an hour
1175. 43:26>> and that email like
1176. 43:28>> you're getting ripped off.
1177. 43:30>> You're talking with professionals about
1178. 43:32the possibility of auctioning off the
1179. 43:35right of way, you know, like that's not
1180. 43:39just trying to figure out who owns the
1181. 43:41lot.
1182. 43:41>> Wasn't wasn't this the big concern was
1183. 43:44we were giving away property where we
1184. 43:46should be selling this property and and
1185. 43:48trying to collect on it. That was your
1186. 43:50biggest thing. So yeah, that was, you
1187. 43:52know, can it's something that we can
1188. 43:54just auction off and let someone bid on
1189. 43:56it. We're trying to get this out of our
1190. 43:58money are assuming that we want to get
1191. 44:01involved. We don't want to get That's
1192. 44:02why we were trying to vac it.
1193. 44:04>> But now that
1194. 44:05>> since that time
1195. 44:07>> since that time, we don't even know who
1196. 44:08owns the property.
1197. 44:10>> Open the auction up something you don't
1198. 44:11own.
1199. 44:12>> Exactly.
1200. 44:13>> Only way to find it out is do a title
1201. 44:14search.
1202. 44:15>> We don't want to pay for it.
1203. 44:16>> And that's what we're that's what we're
1204. 44:18trying to find out. So, let the two
1205. 44:21may own the property now,
1206. 44:22>> right? They may own We don't know until
1207. 44:25Matt Jessup finishes his title search
1208. 44:27investigation. That's it. Then we find
1209. 44:30out then there's closure on it. That's
1210. 44:31all. That's what we're trying to find
1211. 44:33out. I
1212. 44:33>> I just don't understand why we're
1213. 44:35talking about auctioning it off in an
1214. 44:36email chain with township professionals.
1215. 44:38We haven't even established that yet.
1216. 44:40And I feel like the whole situation is
1217. 44:43just really not the town's place to
1218. 44:45begin with. like even the potential of
1219. 44:48auctioning off. My concern was yeah, we
1220. 44:51shouldn't be letting people have the
1221. 44:52road for free. Feel like that's pretty
1222. 44:54understandable. But on top of that,
1223. 44:56especially after I've learned more about
1224. 44:58the situation from being bombarded with
1225. 45:00emails, more I learn it's like why was
1226. 45:02this even on the agenda? Why are we even
1227. 45:05talking about this? This whole situation
1228. 45:07is not the town's place. like it. All
1229. 45:10this money we're spending on
1230. 45:12professionals, all the emails, all the
1231. 45:14time spent on it. It's like this is a
1232. 45:17dispute between two neighbors. It's not
1233. 45:20our place to auction anything off until
1234. 45:24they've settled it themselves, which
1235. 45:26they haven't. We seem to be opening up
1236. 45:28an avenue as a way to settle that
1237. 45:31dispute through the township, and that's
1238. 45:33not our place. Do I make sense on that?
1239. 45:36Like that makes sense.
1240. 45:38Okay, that's
1241. 45:39>> all I have to say.
1242. 45:40>> Yeah, Mr. Rudo,
1243. 45:42>> I have no comments. Thank you. So,
1244. 45:44>> okay. I really don't have any just to
1245. 45:47just intervene here for a second. If
1246. 45:50that right at this moment, it's a town
1247. 45:52road and if they're blocking that road
1248. 45:56or if there's a dog running at large up
1249. 45:58and down that road, why are we not
1250. 46:01enforcing it? Because right this moment
1251. 46:03that road is a public road. So, why
1252. 46:06isn't our police department or animal
1253. 46:10control
1254. 46:12helping these people out? Both of them,
1255. 46:14I believe, called the police. No one
1256. 46:17gets resolved cuz they don't. Or what
1257. 46:20about the dog? They say they have to
1258. 46:22come and watch the dog. She's got
1259. 46:24pictures of the dog. So, why aren't we
1260. 46:26enforcing anything?
1261. 46:27>> That would be the municipal court.
1262. 46:29>> Pardon me.
1263. 46:30>> That would be the municipal court.
1264. 46:31>> Well, she got it back on a sticky note.
1265. 46:33That
1266. 46:35what are we?
1267. 46:37>> Wow.
1268. 46:37>> Tobacco Road. I mean, come on.
1269. 46:40>> Now you know why I'm trying to vacate
1270. 46:42the road, right?
1271. 46:42>> Oh, no.
1272. 46:43>> That their dog is running loose.
1273. 46:46>> No, because all the
1274. 46:47>> Why are we not upholding the law when it
1275. 46:51comes to this section? Because right now
1276. 46:52we do own that section.
1277. 46:54>> How are we not upholding the law?
1278. 46:56>> Well, from what I'm understanding is she
1279. 46:58calls animal
1280. 46:59>> one side. That's what you're hearing.
1281. 47:01No, the woman writes to me and tell
1282. 47:03>> Okay. She So you
1283. 47:04>> So I do both one side.
1284. 47:06>> I know both sides,
1285. 47:08>> but I see pictures of dogs running up
1286. 47:10and down the road.
1287. 47:13You know, so why isn't these things
1288. 47:14getting enforced,
1289. 47:16blocking the road?
1290. 47:20That is my question.
1291. 47:24All right, continue.
1292. 47:26>> Mr. part
1293. 47:28>> uh we voted on tonight rejecting all
1294. 47:30bids for the AV project for council
1295. 47:33chambers and according to resolution is
1296. 47:35because there's had to be more
1297. 47:37specificity in the bids. Is that
1298. 47:40correct? So I assume we're going out to
1299. 47:42rebid again.
1300. 47:44>> We did.
1301. 47:44>> We already did.
1302. 47:45>> Yes, we did. And we um were waiting we
1303. 47:49were waiting for the bond ordinance to
1304. 47:52to you know to uh tell you what happened
1305. 47:55with the second bid. Um
1306. 47:57>> you had to approve tonight's bond
1307. 47:59ordinance. We have to wait the 20 days.
1308. 48:00So the resol second bid will be on the
1309. 48:03next meeting.
1310. 48:04>> Okay. So the second bids have already
1311. 48:05been received. Yes.
1312. 48:06>> Correct. So updating the microphones in
1313. 48:08here is still
1314. 48:10>> Yes. Yeah. So we the first bid you have
1315. 48:12the five that were rejected. it was
1316. 48:15either they were over budget or they
1317. 48:17didn't have all the credentials and
1318. 48:18everything for the specs.
1319. 48:20>> Okay.
1320. 48:21>> So, that is why and that was the first
1321. 48:23bid. So, that is the only one that
1322. 48:25you're seeing on here now.
1323. 48:26>> Okay.
1324. 48:27>> Um the August one you'll get the the
1325. 48:29second bid.
1326. 48:30>> Okay. I was hoping it wasn't
1327. 48:32>> No, it's not completely done.
1328. 48:34>> Okay. Thank you. Mich had one other
1329. 48:37question.
1330. 48:38>> Yeah. So, when looking back at the um
1331. 48:42leftover money from the bond when we
1332. 48:44brought up the
1333. 48:46issue of pickle ball,
1334. 48:47>> okay,
1335. 48:48>> and there's extra bond money that we
1336. 48:49never use and for how many years, five
1337. 48:52years, if not more, paying interest on
1338. 48:55that extra money. Is that now going to
1339. 48:57go back to the general fund or to debt
1340. 49:00rather to pay off? Um, I would, so what
1341. 49:04I have to do is I have to since I wasn't
1342. 49:07here when they did that ordinance, I
1343. 49:09really need to see who put that
1344. 49:11ordinance in and what the intent of
1345. 49:13everything that they were going to put
1346. 49:14in and make sure that they cover
1347. 49:16everything that they originally were.
1348. 49:18>> Well, I don't Isn't it two different
1349. 49:20projects? Like pump track is different
1350. 49:23than a pickle ball?
1351. 49:25>> No, because it's still the same area.
1352. 49:27It's in that ordinance. It allows for
1353. 49:29that area.
1354. 49:31It's in the audience.
1355. 49:33You give me the idea, you give me the
1356. 49:34stink eye, but it's in the audience.
1357. 49:35Really?
1358. 49:36>> To use um money from open space, but
1359. 49:38there's not a lot of active. It has to
1360. 49:41be passive active money left over. So,
1361. 49:44>> well, we we we have about a half a
1362. 49:46million in open space money. And then we
1363. 49:48have money that's still in in
1364. 49:50>> not all of it goes to active recreation.
1365. 49:54You have to go way back to the beginning
1366. 49:56short way and the ballot question.
1367. 50:00So, what's in that fund? All can't be
1368. 50:02used for active recreation. There was
1369. 50:05only 30% of that total fund that could
1370. 50:08be used. That was a ballot question.
1371. 50:12So, there's not a lot left for active
1372. 50:15and the rest has to go for passive. So,
1373. 50:17I don't know if you have enough there in
1374. 50:20active. So, you have to go back all the
1375. 50:22way to the ballot question. But at any
1376. 50:25rate, that extra money as I see it, you
1377. 50:28can only use it
1378. 50:31for that pump track.
1379. 50:32>> And like I said, if it
1380. 50:36right, but and then I don't know if
1381. 50:37pickle pool wall was a part of the
1382. 50:39original, but something came up to that
1383. 50:41value. And I just want to make sure that
1384. 50:43we're not missing something that was in
1385. 50:44the original plan. But then after that
1386. 50:48if I get directions to cancel the
1387. 50:50balance then that
1388. 50:52>> I think legally you have to do that
1389. 50:54right
1390. 50:55>> at some point. At any rate, with going
1391. 50:58forward when the future bonds, can the
1392. 51:01council get a list as the money is spent
1393. 51:04from each item
1394. 51:07be listed, notified so we know what was
1395. 51:10spent out of that bond money so
1396. 51:12something like this doesn't happen
1397. 51:13again. Extra bond money that just sits
1398. 51:16there and we're paying interest on it.
1399. 51:19>> Yeah. Let me see what kind of reports I
1400. 51:20can get. And
1401. 51:21>> that would be great. That would be
1402. 51:23great. I I mean I'm sure something but I
1403. 51:25just off top again new and admins. I'm
1404. 51:27sure there's something I can come up
1405. 51:28with that but uh I will look into that.
1406. 51:31>> Yeah, thank you. That would be a big
1407. 51:32help. So we just know what's being spent
1408. 51:34and how much and how much is left over.
1409. 51:40>> I think there's over 400,000 that's left
1410. 51:42over.
1411. 51:46>> It was about around 400 sounds right.
1412. 51:50>> Oh wow. and about 200
1413. 51:52>> on that particular line item of that
1414. 51:54ordinance,
1415. 51:55>> right? That by pump track or
1416. 51:59>> ordinance
1417. 52:02>> with the bond ordinance for the pump
1418. 52:04money
1419. 52:10executive session. So don't journ.
1420. 52:13We have the B. We have the um executive
1421. 52:15session right continue. Yeah. So don't
1422. 52:17adjourn. We have to we have to turn this
1423. 52:21meeting and open it back into executive
1424. 52:24>> and then go back out and then close this
1425. 52:26meeting.
1426. 52:27>> Yeah. I want to do that.
1427. 52:28>> Well, that's what you guys want to do. I
1428. 52:29want to go home.
1429. 52:30>> Yeah.
1430. 52:32>> But you get your comment.
1431. 52:33>> Yeah. So, there's a couple comments. One
1432. 52:36quick question, Patty, just as a
1433. 52:38refresher. We approved the gazebo money,
1434. 52:41the 30 grand,
1435. 52:43>> right? So, that was part of that
1436. 52:44$75,000.
1437. 52:45>> So, the Yeah. The question is just for
1438. 52:47the public, where did that money come
1439. 52:49from?
1440. 52:49>> Uh, it's a local improvement recreation
1441. 52:52improvement grant.
1442. 52:52>> That was a grant, right? Wasn't it
1443. 52:54wasn't taxpayer money? Yeah, that that's
1444. 52:57what I wanted to hear. Yeah. So, the uh
1445. 53:01other question for the council is do are
1446. 53:04you satisfied with all the answers? Do
1447. 53:07you want to go into an executive session
1448. 53:09to continue these discussions?
1449. 53:11>> What would be the discussions in our
1450. 53:12prior executive session? We had three
1451. 53:14items. So, we were only going to
1452. 53:16continue on one item and that was the
1453. 53:19personnel issue.
1454. 53:20>> I would like more time to discuss that.
1455. 53:22Yes,
1456. 53:23>> the personnel mission.
1457. 53:24>> Yeah, just that. Nothing from the
1458. 53:26meeting itself because that would have
1459. 53:27to be discussed publicly.
1460. 53:28>> And we we didn't advertise to go into
1461. 53:31executive session for that.
1462. 53:32>> Yeah.
1463. 53:34>> Okay. So, we'll stay here and uh we'll
1464. 53:37end this meeting.
1465. 53:39And may I have a uh
1466. 53:41>> motion? I'll make a motion to go in
1467. 53:43executive session. And we have a second.
1468. 53:45>> Second.
1469. 53:46>> All in favor?
1470. 53:47>> I I
1471. 53:48>> Thank you all for coming, but
1472. 53:50unfortunately you can't stay in on our
1473. 53:52executive session, so you'll get to go
1474. 53:54home to your loved ones
1475. 53:59>> by the December.
1476. 54:00>> Exactly. Knowing you, yes, they did.
1477. 54:03Now,