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“Up in the Air” w/ Doc McIver (Cybersecurity Leadership & Operations) feat Prof Scott — Transcript

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0:00one
0:01all right students welcome to week two
0:05of is 403 cyber security up in the air
0:10podcast with Dr Brandon MacGyver
0:12I have my guest Scott today I'll leave
0:15it at that so y'all can't trace them and
0:17and come up with his historic background
0:19but look his list of accomplishments are
0:22three times as long as mine at higher
0:23levels so I'm blessed to have more on
0:25the podcast today
0:27today we're going to be talking about
0:29leadership and operations and this is a
0:31topic that's close to my heart because
0:33so much of US keyboard guys all we want
0:36to do is pound keyboard our whole entire
0:39life but there's always this one person
0:41in our career that looks at us and goes
0:43I know you want a pound keyboard but you
0:46got something in you my friend right and
0:49there's only one way to build a CIO
0:50right and that's to create a service
0:52desk supervisor and I.T manager director
0:56of I.T there's a path right and there's
0:58only one way to make a CIO and that's
1:00what we're going to talk about today so
1:02uh Scott welcome to the podcast I if you
1:05tell us a little bit about yourself
1:07hey thanks thanks well as you said I I
1:10guess I'm one of the the newest
1:11professors you know we we all got to
1:13join the real world at some time you
1:16know uh my background is uh you know
1:18more than a computer networking so you
1:21know as I shared with you off uh off to
1:23the side there you know I know uh you
1:25know some of your guys are some serious
1:27cyber security Defenders and uh just
1:30with them awesome skills and you know
1:32when talking with Andrew last week about
1:33tools and stuff and you said you know
1:35but a lot of people are never going to
1:37touch the keyboard well I'm the guy you
1:38don't want touching the keyboard anymore
1:40right but but uh um but I've got a lot
1:43of years in in leadership of those you
1:46know and is some of your topics that
1:47you've talked about in terms of risk
1:49management in terms of you know
1:51actionable Intel and decision making
1:54um you know that's kind of where my
1:55background comes in and leading Tom
1:57agencies uh working with businesses you
2:00know obviously on the military side you
2:02know the haircut uh kind of gives that
2:04part away right but but that that's
2:06where I want to want to throw go in and
2:08lead the conversation wherever you want
2:09to take it
2:11awesome awesome so um you mentioned
2:14something really really cool about risk
2:16management right and you know I like to
2:19call it the universal language of
2:21business right um so so often it is not
2:25something that is
2:26I'm not going to say understood but
2:29sometimes we could go into what people
2:31don't want to hear right I get on the
2:33students all the time about their
2:34discussion posts stop teaching me about
2:36it until and show me what you know uh
2:39hopefully you've done some research
2:40right so when it comes to risk
2:43do you categorize risks like a standard
2:47business professional would categorize
2:49it or do you add a you know it Network
2:53risk or cyber security risk uh how do
2:56you flavor your risk management
2:58you know that's that's a good point
2:59because I mean let's start with you know
3:01risk management you know I mean you know
3:04the military side obviously you know the
3:06job is inherently dangerous and and we
3:09always loved that part right it just had
3:11that um sound too it made it cooler but
3:14but the fact is you know the business
3:16side it's inherently dangerous too
3:18you're dealing with people's lives
3:20people's data's people's information you
3:22know when you look at societal Norms of
3:25what's acceptable these days in terms of
3:27you know hey I gave you all my data and
3:30you lost it you didn't protect it well
3:32that that there's risk in that right and
3:35so when you look at the the risk
3:38management piece to it
3:40um I mean you really go back to you know
3:43I mean my my days of of networking were
3:45you know a lot of the small mom and pop
3:4825 to 100 people you know where the I.T
3:51guy did everything you know and that was
3:53acceptable and I know I've heard on some
3:55of your other discussions you know it's
3:57like that you know the difference
3:59between you know defending you know and
4:01securing you know do I want a guy out at
4:03my fence line or do I want you know
4:05somebody's actually going to protect me
4:06you know and so the risk management side
4:08that
4:09you know the business side says well
4:13wait where where are the stakeholders
4:15stockholders customers you know
4:18employees you know what role do they
4:20have you know and and the I.T guy is not
4:24the I.T guy he's the Chief Information
4:26officer and he has to look at you know
4:29decisions you know data Integrity data
4:32you know data management data security
4:34and then you know look at the risk and
4:37reward with the risk management but that
4:40also takes that too you know like
4:42business opportunities the the cost of
4:46failure and and the cost of not even
4:49trying you know you can't just you can't
4:52just get in your turtle shell and sit
4:54there and go no I'm afraid of the
4:57internet so so I'm not gonna do it so
4:59when you look at that all of those
5:00pieces you know I want to put on the
5:03well cyber security risk but cyber
5:06security is business security and I
5:08think we're seeing that migrate to your
5:10decision makers having that background
5:12because they're the ones accepting risk
5:14they're the ones who have to make a
5:16business decision that's a powerful
5:18point you just make cyber security the
5:21risk is business risk cyber security is
5:25business today that is a powerful
5:27statement and these are the things that
5:29we've got to get in our heads as we as
5:33we grow up in this world right is is and
5:36I mean as we grew up in the IIT in the
5:38cyber security world
5:39you know we need more people that are
5:42like
5:43they're not no Sayers right they're not
5:45naysayers they're not fear mongers right
5:48so me and you we've been around for a
5:49while I've been doing I.T cyber security
5:51on and off for about 20 years now right
5:54and you know I remember once upon a time
5:57we did cyber secure through cyber
5:59security through fear right we did cyber
6:02security by exploiting the unknown right
6:05like you might not want to do that
6:07because uh turn it off you know like
6:10don't worry sir we can burn it all down
6:12and rebuild it right like but but
6:14nowadays that's that's not acceptable
6:16right because time on network is money
6:19right we deal we're in the world of
6:20e-commerce we're in a deal with search
6:22engines we're in the deal of making
6:23yourself public so
6:26my next question for you right is kind
6:28of moving away from the CIO role and
6:30getting into the ciso role is we live in
6:33an era where cisos are no longer allowed
6:37to say no
6:39so Scott how do CIO how do cisos get to
6:43yes
6:44you know so
6:46I I think the answer is always you know
6:49and and going you know you and I are
6:51always going to fall back to our
6:52military side right but but it's the yes
6:54Bud like the the ciso role is not to say
6:58no
6:59it's to tell the boss when he says yes
7:02what he risked what he gives up what we
7:06can do to mitigate that risk because
7:09right I mean the the ciso role is not to
7:13say no but it's to facilitate the
7:16acceptance of that risk right is to make
7:20everything clear yes to mitigate but to
7:22get everybody thinking in that right
7:24because yeah the boss is going to say I
7:26want to do this new thing
7:28and you know it's it's it's yeah that's
7:31where we're gonna go but but to be able
7:34to facilitate that and understand where
7:37it means
7:38if we do it if we don't do it what do
7:41you risk by you know by by doing this
7:43and then it's it's that acceptance and
7:45that's where we have to kind of switch
7:46from
7:48um I I think you're going to see that
7:51the the role of accountability used to
7:54just be I.T right everything with cyber
7:57security was an I.T accountability it's
8:00not anymore it's a business decision
8:03because in the end you know your your
8:05I.T people and your cisos like I said
8:09they have to report to the success of
8:11the business and so that accountability
8:12comes to them as well and so yet no is
8:16not acceptable no no lets the competitor
8:19get ahead of you no lets the customer
8:22down no leave no no no
8:25leads you just you know like sitting you
8:28know hiding in your shadow that that
8:30doesn't work
8:31oh I love that I love that no let's the
8:34you lose the advantage you get behind
8:36the power curve saying no right it's how
8:39do we get to yes one of the things that
8:41I do is I say we're going to do this yes
8:45but we're going to do this the right way
8:48or you can fire me right right um yeah
8:51so so
8:53um I was the ranking security officer
8:55right at my at my current job I worked
8:57under the CIO uh did such a good job I
9:00ended up uh transitioning over to being
9:02the cdao right and I'm a data management
9:05side of cdao but I've got some strong uh
9:09governance and and analyst uh excuse me
9:12analysis folks right I'm the cdao but
9:15but the thing is is I have to tell
9:17people they're like yo let's go get this
9:19database we need this to do blah blah
9:21blah blah blah and I go hold on we've
9:24got a conglomerate of ad hoc databases
9:27that are stood up based on Ops
9:31and there's no checksum there's no
9:33accountability there's no expandability
9:35there's no Opera there's no room for
9:38operational maturity right there's no
9:42there's no maturity plan there's no plan
9:45for obsolescence right so we're hanging
9:47on to times past where
9:50the database that ain't it right and
9:52these con and these contractors are just
9:54taking money every year on something
9:57that's obsolete um they're probably
9:58doing what you're doing right now like
10:00don't laugh too loud or they're gonna
10:02compete this thing right and I'm looking
10:05at all of this and the dinosaurs in the
10:07room they're like man this works and I
10:10don't blame them for that right you're
10:12adjusting their business model but they
10:14go to sleep every night knowing that it
10:16may not be efficient right but it works
10:19right so one of the things that I try to
10:22tell the students so I teach Network
10:23management right and I call that that's
10:25the babies right all of the new msis
10:28students
10:30um they come through the door and they
10:31usually take Network management so I
10:33teach more than Network management right
10:35I'm the person that splashes hot uh
10:37excuse me cold water on everybody and
10:39says hey you're getting a master's
10:41degree in information studies guess what
10:44you're not going to be technical I'm not
10:46going to teach you I'm not going to
10:48teach you how to be a network engineer
10:49or a network admin I'm going to teach
10:52you how to manage networks and they
10:54don't look at me crazy
10:56so one of the things I try to tell them
10:59about is hey
11:01if you want to just pound keyboard
11:05then now there are the industry is set
11:08up where you now have i t companies that
11:12do it for companies so if you're doing
11:16it for a company then you're not all
11:19you're not really an I.T guy traditional
11:23you are a network manager you're a
11:27network planner you're a cloud broker
11:29you're a services provider you're an
11:32ITIL professional so with that being in
11:35mind how do we how do you think
11:39we should get our intermediate I.T
11:42professionals
11:44to become business-minded and the second
11:47part of that is how do we convince the
11:49mbas of the world right the Coos right
11:54um the VPS of functional areas that a
11:57company how do we convince them that I'm
11:59not an I.T guy right I'm not an
12:01information security guy I'm not a data
12:04guy but I am a business professional
12:07with the same Advanced degrees as you
12:10yeah you know the funny side of that is
12:13is um you know you you kind of switch
12:17gears there between the students all the
12:19way up to you know your CEO right and so
12:22I I think you know from the student
12:24aspect you know like why are they
12:27looking at this you know you don't get
12:28to pound keyboards okay that's you know
12:30but but having an understanding you know
12:32just like saying you know I'm not I'm
12:34not uh I'm not building a house but the
12:37fact that I understand electricity I can
12:39talk to the electrician and you know
12:41make sure I'm getting what I'm done
12:42right so it's that understanding right
12:44but to the student from the leadership
12:45standpoint to the technical I think some
12:48of that's an honesty you know I know I I
12:50know you know plenty of database guys
12:51who I would never let go to a meeting
12:53right
12:56right it's like I love those guys and
13:00you know and I'm gonna keep them like a
13:02mushroom in the dark to grow and keep
13:05pounding away and do what they're good
13:07at that's like but I'm not bringing them
13:09to a meeting right right and so I think
13:12some of that is you have to on the
13:14business side
13:16if you have a CEO that does not
13:19understand that
13:21that the security
13:23of the network is not an I.T decision
13:27because it enables decision making it
13:30enables analysis it enables customer
13:33trust it enables customer actions it
13:37enables all of the things that drive
13:41success right that it is a business
13:45decision right like if you want to say
13:47I'm not going to my CEO and going hey
13:50should I upgrade from X you know
13:53terabytes to to Y terabytes that that's
13:56you know that's not a business decision
13:58right it's it's to say Hey you know
14:02here's a decision going from an
14:04operating expense right or from account
14:06I apologize from a capital expense to an
14:08operating expense because this is what
14:10it's going to be able to do for business
14:12and so I think to be able to do that you
14:16have to have those you have to train
14:17those technicians to be able to speak to
14:20the business relevance of the decision
14:22right right does that make sense right
14:24because otherwise absolutely they're
14:25just techies you know right
14:28right you're just you're just a guy
14:30you're a mushroom right and the business
14:32guys are like are you just the
14:34six-figure mushroom or like are you the
14:36much are you the tallest Mushroom in the
14:38patch right and it's like no no bro I'm
14:42a dog on a tree and I got Rush mushrooms
14:44at the root right and and that's what
14:46we're doing right we're we're doing our
14:49thing right and you're gonna respect it
14:51um and it's not that attitude but
14:54sometimes there's sometimes where I find
14:57myself having to
14:59stand up for myself right there's
15:02sometimes where I have to tell folks
15:04that don't confuse it for one second
15:09right don't confuse this for one second
15:11and this is me putting my military hat
15:13on I've done this job with eternal
15:16consequences on the line that's
15:19something you've never done
15:21so the disrespect that you normally
15:24would issue an I.T individual
15:26don't issue to me right so yeah risk
15:29remains something different to us right
15:32from from right from the military side
15:35risk and reward means means something
15:37different right the the to the business
15:40side you know
15:42um you know risk though and reward means
15:44means something that a lot of military
15:46people don't understand because let's
15:48face it we look at things from a
15:50decision of an execution of an operation
15:52not from a from a sunk cost expenditure
15:57of you know of a goal to to reach or a
16:01goal that you have to get to to ensure
16:04the survivability of a company like like
16:06because in the end Congress is
16:08appropriating for the military right and
16:11we're we're going to go so our risk
16:13reward is based on you know success or
16:15failure well failure is not an option
16:18corporate decisions are a little bit
16:20different failure is not an option for
16:22them but but as we said the risk is
16:24different right and and so I think when
16:26you talk about risk from the business
16:28side if you're just talking on the
16:32technical aspect you're you're going to
16:33lose them right because you know you and
16:35I had a brief discussion you know about
16:37about like you know cloud computing
16:39right and how we can Outsource that you
16:42know we can Outsource a lot of the risk
16:44right if I if I don't want to build the
16:46infrastructure yeah I can I can
16:48automatically automatically just reduce
16:51my Capital expenses and convert them to
16:53operate expenses by by Outsourcing and
16:56and maybe my internal staff can then
17:00just focus on the security of the data
17:01while the outsourced piece of the cloud
17:04is is controlled by you know is
17:06outsourced and that Securities held and
17:09we can focus on business but that's a
17:10business decision right so so Scott uh
17:14expound upon that uh capex versus Opex
17:17um for the students right they should
17:20know but some of them yeah so so I mean
17:22you know if you're gonna decide you know
17:25it's easy to look and go okay we're
17:28going to need you know a hundred
17:30thousand dollars worth of computers just
17:32to use round numbers now you could say
17:34the Mom and Pop Shop we need ten
17:36thousand dollars worth of computers to
17:38host right but you could be doing that
17:40what are you doing you're hosting data
17:42you don't know how much you're going to
17:43access it you don't know what you're
17:44going to do with it that's a large
17:46expense you can Outsource that you know
17:49and if you look as like infrastructure
17:50as a service as your cloud computing
17:52model just to set up you're still going
17:54to control it it's like all of your
17:56servers except the virtual you still
17:57have all of your internal security
18:00concerns and stuff but but it's not a
18:02capital expense because you didn't have
18:04to put that original Outlet it's an
18:06operating expense because you're going
18:08to be charged a monthly fee right so
18:11when you look at those
18:12you know originally it's a monetary
18:15decision and a business decision but
18:17it's also a business decision because we
18:19have outsourced some of the security
18:20risks as well now as you move on to you
18:24know your platforms as a service and and
18:26you know your softwares as a service I
18:28mean that that takes us in a whole other
18:30realm but just looking from the cyber
18:32security piece you know when the capital
18:34expenditures to operating expenditures
18:37you know it gives the opportunity to to
18:39offload that initial expense
18:42you still have the risk of your data but
18:45you've offloaded the external piece
18:47right you're you're the company that you
18:48might be working with is going to be in
18:50control of that did I explain that good
18:52enough for you yeah absolutely
18:55um no that was that was beautiful so so
18:58for me uh I'm having trouble with Cloud
19:00costs right now and my job right and and
19:03the thing is sometimes now we're kind of
19:05looking at it like
19:06shoot we might have wanted some Capital
19:08expenses right because we're still doing
19:10maintenance we're still doing everything
19:12right and now you're paying like a
19:15utility bill for your for your data
19:17right but you said if I could just buy a
19:20big old hard drive and the only cost is
19:23the doggo hard drive because the the
19:25dude's running it we're paying them
19:27anyway yeah but remember you also need
19:29to you need the room you need the air
19:32conditioning
19:33I mean you know right right so so
19:36there's all those other things
19:37absolutely no no you're 100 right so
19:41um it just takes time because everybody
19:43thinks they're going to save money see
19:45that's the fallacy we think from going
19:47from capex to Opex that we're going to
19:50save money oh we didn't say that we just
19:53like we shifted it right so so the only
19:56way you could really save money is I
19:59need 50 dudes to manage my network and
20:02now since I've outsourced it to the
20:04cloud I need 10 right so so now you can
20:07cut the fat right everybody who wasn't
20:10performing and I know this is bad you
20:12shrack right because you don't need
20:15those folks anymore because you don't
20:17have that you're not running big old com
20:19squadrons anymore right you're not
20:21running 350 man Metropolitan networks
20:25you know you're not doing that anymore
20:26right so what I would say is is you you
20:29can never be a Salesman for cloud
20:31computing because what they're going to
20:33tell you is you're going to take those
20:3440 people and let them focus on the
20:37business side right they're going to
20:39write you're right they're going to
20:40write your ass right they're gonna write
20:43your apis that give you access to your
20:46legacy data that can drive your business
20:49forward right for better analysis right
20:51so that that's me if I'm putting on my
20:54sales hat right but but I'm with you
20:56right the original thing though is is
20:59wait you're going to reduce this this
21:02this upfront cost but but to be honest
21:04like you said you're in the bigger you
21:06know you're in the big your field of the
21:07business where it's not a mom and pop
21:09shop right and so they already have some
21:11of that expenditure and I think that's
21:12where you look at some of the Hybrid
21:13models you know with with you still got
21:16your internal and using the cloud but so
21:19from the security side you've still got
21:20your pieces right but in the end right I
21:23mean we we can't we can't forget you
21:25know when we talk cyber security you
21:27know the biggest threat to cyber
21:28security of course is our own users
21:30right and and and so from the business
21:33side you know right so if I if I bring
21:35you if I bring you back to your original
21:37discussion on business right when we
21:39talk about things like
21:41I'm sure everybody you know everybody's
21:43like being trained I know well don't
21:44don't get that fishing email the one
21:46that says hey you just spent a thousand
21:48dollars on a toaster click here right
21:51um you know don't do that right I I can
21:53remember no kidding I mean and when I
21:56started networking it was a little
21:57before you so I I learned ipx SPX and
22:00Banyan Vines and all those things right
22:02but but when I first started with like
22:04NT I used to take my my oldest boy at
22:07the time it was probably only 11 or 12
22:09onto some of the jobs I would do and uh
22:12I would tell them you know he'd be like
22:14oh I need the password to this and I'd
22:16be like look on the desk do they have a
22:17picture of a you know a dog if that dog
22:20is wearing a sweater then that's their
22:21password what the name of the dog is
22:23right right or pick up their keyboard
22:25and it's underneath because the I.T
22:27administrator made the password policy
22:29so hard that they wrote it down right
22:31okay so absolutely right and and then
22:34you look at you know we forget about
22:36things like social engineering somebody
22:38who just calls up and says hey I'm I'm
22:39from the IRS and I need you to give me
22:42right where I'm from you know XYZ
22:44company and I need you to give me and so
22:46so to bring it back to like you said
22:48about the business side you know you
22:50have to build that culture because once
22:53again to go back to the this the the
22:56security of your data the security of
22:58your cyber is the business it is what
23:01enables all other parts of your business
23:04success
23:06absolutely
23:08um true words haven't haven't been
23:10spoken right it's and and it's the users
23:13but it's the administrators too right
23:16there they are the administrators are
23:18criminal right you know so I'm gonna say
23:21something sacrilege sacrilegious right
23:23but I'ma go ahead and say it I am now
23:26telling my users
23:27that I'm going to make you do a complex
23:30password I don't want you to save the
23:33password to Google or save the password
23:36to Edge I don't want you to write a
23:40password file I don't want you to put it
23:42on your phone I actually would like you
23:46to write it down and I would like you to
23:48put it somewhere because the chances of
23:51a bad guy finding your password in the
23:55building
23:57is less than
24:00the bad guy finding it right on your
24:03computer right or or in your phone yeah
24:07so so that that segues into my next
24:10question the reason why I pivoted to
24:12that is I read an article the other day
24:15and it's beginning to catch Steam not
24:17the other day a couple months ago is
24:20home is the new attack service
24:23because people are working from home
24:26more
24:27I.T folks are accepting risk
24:31with home networks but people are
24:34blending their home devices
24:38and their work devices
24:40we're kind of convenient
24:43um but what do you say to that
24:47so you know the funny part is you go
24:49back let's say 15 20 years when
24:52convergence was like the buzzword right
24:55we're gonna put you know we're gonna get
24:57rid of our plain old telephone networks
25:00and we're going to put everything into
25:03you know onto the network and we're
25:05going to converge and and we were
25:07worried about how that might shut down
25:08business if the network ever crashed
25:10right well convergence is still the word
25:14except the convergence piece is now how
25:17everybody can do their business from
25:19their phone or everybody can purchase a
25:22VPN and we're accessing the data right
25:25but but I mean like as you and I are
25:27sitting here I mean you know hell I
25:30could have I could have a whole house
25:31full of Thieves and you don't know and
25:34we're still conducting business right
25:35you don't know about your neighbors so
25:38because you're not secure in the area
25:39right all of those things like you said
25:41they have they have basically
25:45um you know offloaded the security
25:47uh and accepted the risk without
25:51without any real study to prove it was a
25:54smart move you know there are certain
25:56there are certain just things that they
25:58just said yeah I mean covet was a driver
26:01of that obviously we had we had to get
26:03to there but you're right the working
26:04from home model
26:06um I I think has given a false sense of
26:09security yes it's enabled certain
26:10business practices right but but it is a
26:13false sense of security I mean you know
26:15I go back to uh you know
26:18I'm going to say the old days which is
26:21kind of coming back again where you used
26:22to walk around in certain networks with
26:24a with a key fob generator for a code
26:27that was only good for 30 seconds and
26:30you had to log in and then match that
26:32code which was generated every 30
26:34seconds I I think we're we're pretty
26:37close to doing that with people's cell
26:38phones where companies are gonna have to
26:41you know your your code is only good for
26:4330 seconds you know because of like you
26:45said the risks to
26:47it's you know it's their home computer
26:49it's the this computer and and what did
26:51we just leave open right what the
26:53physical security side is might become
26:56the weakest link
26:59so you know Scott I I do appreciate you
27:03right
27:04um it's been an honor to have you on
27:06I've learned a ton uh right here right
27:09because you know me uh you know knuckle
27:12dragger right
27:13um I'm learning the business side right
27:15and I did a lot of learning before I got
27:17out into the business world but I'm
27:19learning every single day and it's a new
27:21chapter it's a new adventure
27:23um I think you unlocked a key piece of
27:26cyber security that isn't taught right
27:30um
27:31I got one question for you when we're
27:33running short on time but the last
27:35question I have for you is I've read in
27:39cio.com
27:40that cios are requiring degrees
27:46less and less
27:48I think that's a mistake I need
27:51professional learners
27:53I need people who know how to go get it
27:56out the mud because they've gotta you
27:58know crabby Professor like me that said
28:00it's the internet go get it right like I
28:02need people who know how to learn that's
28:04my view on it right
28:06um
28:07if I need somebody to work on a server
28:09I'll go get somebody with server Plus or
28:11Cloud plus if I need somebody to work on
28:13a switch I'll hire a CCNA but if I need
28:17somebody who I need to learn how to
28:19learn I need somebody who knows a little
28:21about economics I need somebody who
28:23knows a little bit about psychology I
28:25need somebody to learn a little bit
28:26about sociology took a finance class
28:29understand sat right
28:31that's what my degree holder is for how
28:34do you think cios are abandoning that
28:36concept
28:37you know I think you kind of touched on
28:39it when you said you know if you need X
28:41you go find X right and so I think the
28:44learning opportunities that are out
28:45there right you you kind of you you
28:48nailed it when you said what does the
28:50degree really give you it gives you that
28:52well-rounded piece right it gives you
28:55that access to other information in
28:58terms of you know maybe the soft
29:00sciences that that might just open up
29:02your mind to learning and to to expand
29:05right but I think there are also a lot
29:09of right I don't care whether it's
29:10whether it's Google or whether it's
29:12Amazon or Coursera or any of those there
29:16are some great learning tools out there
29:17and so I think you know for CIO you know
29:21who's smart enough to go wait this is
29:23the niche where I need a guy and this is
29:25the experience that I need and if he can
29:27prove that fine
29:29but he probably is not going to be given
29:32the same opportunities in the boardroom
29:34uh you know to prove those skills that
29:37that as you said that somebody with a
29:38degree walking through the door that
29:40basic understanding of writing skills
29:42and and you know analysis right he's
29:44going to have to prove himself more and
29:46I think that's where it's going to
29:47balance
29:49awesome yeah and and that was one of the
29:52that's one of the things that I try to
29:53tell the students right is you're going
29:55to be a degree holder right you need to
29:58fight for that space
30:00um because
30:01we as degree holders in I.T
30:05where you we're a little unique right
30:08and people
30:11sounds silly sounds silly right but
30:13people will try to put us down like oh
30:15you got a degree that must mean you have
30:17no skills or anything you're just a blah
30:20blah blah and it's like my brother you
30:23need me more than you know because I do
30:27the things that you don't want to do
30:29right like you don't want to be social
30:32right you don't want to put things in
30:34the context of Sociology you don't want
30:36to do hiring and firing you don't want
30:39to you know interact with HR you don't
30:41want to sit in these rooms with folks
30:43who don't understand things right so
30:46what do you say to the term this my job
30:50is to bring I.T to business and bring
30:54business to it
30:57you know
30:59it's
31:00as a career as a career you know Intel
31:03guy like we said where you know we
31:05always try to say you know Intel is the
31:07operation right and you know because we
31:10you know we felt you know like the thumb
31:12on us like wait you know you're a
31:14supporting element and so some of your
31:16statements seems like we're just trying
31:18to you know push ourselves up to to like
31:21you know to to to say hey look we're
31:24just as good as you and I think the real
31:26Revelation is is not that we have to say
31:30that it's that we have to prove it in
31:33this what we give to business right if
31:36you've got it if you've got to go around
31:37telling people you're good maybe you're
31:40not good right if absolutely right truth
31:45be told if you are if you are prime
31:48providing a business success whether
31:51that's through the I.T or through the
31:53sales then that's going to come through
31:55and that's why like I said I go back to
31:57that what we are doing is not I mean
32:01it's enabling success but it is the
32:05business you know any any company that
32:08is sitting there going
32:09I I think everything's good with their
32:11data
32:12it's probably not right everything
32:14everything's good with our Network it's
32:16not and so the next emergencies coming
32:19around the corner yeah and then there's
32:21going to be the I.T guy with the
32:22Superman shirt on but he's only good
32:24until the next emergency he's got to be
32:27there every day to show how he supports
32:29the business model and how he leads to
32:33the success if he's just trying to show
32:35how I.T succeeding then then he's really
32:37he's barking up the wrong tree gotcha
32:40gotcha no that's powerful
32:43um what you just said
32:45um so with that being said students this
32:46is week two this is gold right hopefully
32:50trying keeps this forever because Scott
32:52we hit a spot that the textbooks can't
32:55hit right we had a spot that the NBA's
32:59don't really get after right
33:01um
33:02and I thank you for your leadership I
33:04thank you um for giving of your time
33:07um and just know you're giving back to
33:09the community in ways that you'll
33:12probably never know so um from me to you
33:15Pennsylvania connection uh I'm from the
33:18dirty City but we did field trips out to
33:21Hershey right uh the land of chocolate
33:24um Hershey's a great place to have a
33:25convention uh if I ever have a
33:28convention out in Hershey I'm for sure
33:30going to be there and I'm gonna look you
33:31up uh stay connected
33:34um we got a Brotherhood of professors
33:36we're all making each other better thank
33:38you for making us better today
33:40hey thank you doc no problem appreciate
33:43you
33:44take care bye brother

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