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Unthinkable: The Susan Smith Story — Transcript

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0:23Around mid-afternoon, investigators
0:25began cordoning off a portion of Highway
0:2749 near John D. Long Lake, the place
0:29where Susan Smith claimed a carjacker
0:31forced her out of her car and drove off
0:34with her little boys.
0:36We have not turned up the car as of yet.
0:38We have not turned up the suspect as of
0:40yet, and we have not had a confirmed
0:41sighting on the children having been
0:43dropped off anywhere. We haven't
0:44recovered them. As late as yesterday
0:46morning, Susan Smith was on national TV
0:49pleading for her children's return.
0:51In California, you could believe it, but
0:52not in Union.
0:53She was stopped at this red light when
0:55the suspect, armed with a handgun,
0:57jumped in the passenger side of the car
0:59and ordered her to shut up and drive.
1:01A composite picture of the suspect is
1:03already up in storefront windows. The
1:06hardest part is not knowing,
1:08you know, just not knowing. I mean,
1:10Several hours after that interview, she
1:12confessed. She told police she killed
1:14her sons, 3-year-old Michael and
1:1614-month-old Alex. She directed police
1:18to the bottom of the lake where they
1:19recovered her Mazda Protege. The little
1:22boys were in the back.
1:33People ask you where you're from and you
1:35say, "Well, I'm from Union, South
1:36Carolina."
1:38Where are you from? Where
1:40that girl killed her kids.
1:55You going to come her something?
1:57Do you have a pet? Huh? do.
2:00Tell her. A stick. Yeah, come down with
2:02me and get a stick.
2:04Him and my other two are the reason I
2:06live and breathe. I would be bored
2:08without them.
2:09Like
2:10they're my life.
2:12They give meaning to life.
2:19Good job.
2:22Come over here and get some more.
2:25Like you have a purpose.
2:36It's a town where you know everybody.
2:39So, uh
2:40that's that's that's
2:42that's unique. Like any other small
2:44town, hustle bustle, people working,
2:46trying to, you know, going to and fro
2:48and trying to, uh
2:50make a living and, you know, just about
2:52everybody in town
2:54you um
2:55know each other. You know somebody that
2:57know this person and that person. Just a
3:00small town, small southern town.
3:03It's peaceful.
3:04There's not a lot going on. It's mostly
3:07quiet, so people kind of keep to
3:09themselves and
3:10yeah, you just you get that small town
3:12life. He's my wild child.
3:14As you can see.
3:16I have a 18-year-old and
3:1913-year-old and him and they were like
3:22perfect angels, didn't speak to anybody,
3:24like they were scared of people and
3:26did exactly what mama said, but not this
3:28one.
3:29He wants to throw it all in the water.
3:33Okay, you're too close to the water.
3:34Come on.
3:36Stop.
3:42It's real close knit, you know, you
3:43know, we're we've got our population
3:45around 28,000 people.
3:48We're a big county, but we're spread out
3:50land mass. And but, you know, as far as
3:52the communities go,
3:54you know, people just you see everybody
3:56and and and you pretty well know just
3:57about everybody. And and and that's why
3:59everybody knew her and knew her family
4:01and I met
4:03a woman at the park. She has two little
4:05kids also and
4:06we were just talking about it one day
4:08like right after we met and she told me
4:10and I heard the story um cuz I like to
4:13watch like crime shows and stuff and
4:15it's come up.
4:17Um
4:18I didn't put two and two together cuz
4:20it's been a very long time. So like when
4:22she told me that then like I started
4:25like researching it all and I was like,
4:27"Oh my goodness. This this is This is
4:30nuts."
4:31We've been on vacation before and people
4:33ask where you're from and you tell them
4:35Union and they're like, "Oh, that's the
4:37where Susan Smith killed her kids." I
4:39was like, "Oh, yeah." You know. But then
4:42people ask how it was and
4:45I told them I was little. I don't
4:46remember a lot but you know, the
4:48history. Everyone knows it. It's
4:50It's crazy. You know, it's part of part
4:52of our lives. Part of the people's lives
4:54in Union but
4:55you know, we just
4:56I I I I guess we don't
4:59try to flock to it.
5:00ever get away from it?
5:02Totally? Probably not.
5:05She's put a tag on Union, South Carolina
5:11for who knows how long.
5:13Yeah, there's a lady that come up got
5:15door
5:16and uh she some guy jumped into a red
5:19light with her car with her two kids in
5:21it and he took off and he and she got
5:23out of the car here at our house. And
5:25he's got the kids? Yes, ma'am. In her
5:27car. I don't and she's real hysterical
5:29and I just thought I I need to call law
5:31and get them down here.
5:32Get them going, Pam. They got two kids.
5:34The the boat ramp uh was down a side
5:37street off of Highway 49 and you you go
5:41down this little sort of uh woods on
5:43both sides down to the opening where the
5:45boat ramp was and it's changed now. It's
5:47not the same way if you've been down
5:48there to see it. So, she had to run some
5:50distance from the boat ramp to get back
5:52up to 49 and then a few hundred yards
5:55down the road towards the city on the
5:57left. She went to the first house that
5:59had a was that was there. The porch
6:01light was on, knocked on the door and
6:04and and told the the people that lived
6:06there their children had been kidnapped
6:08and that she had been carjacked in Union
6:09and dumped off on the side of the road
6:11near the house.
6:12Um the police came, of course, and then
6:14ultimately local media showed up.
6:17Search helicopters and police dogs have
6:19been combing the area for the past 21
6:21hours and still no luck.
6:24Disbelief.
6:26And that like surreal.
6:28This can't be happening.
6:31Um
6:32and
6:34then it was
6:35well, we got to find them.
6:37Whatever it takes, we got to get busy.
6:39We got to find them. The longer time it
6:41goes, of course, the more worried we
6:42become.
6:43Uh but we have no reason to believe
6:45they're harmed.
6:45Wendy Fowler spent her day distributing
6:47flyers across the state. Other folks
6:50tied up yellow ribbons along Main
6:51Street.
6:53When when that news broke,
6:55uh you know,
6:56of
6:57the the
6:59supposed kidnapper or carjacker and they
7:02kidnapped the two kids and and it's uh
7:06uh it left at first it left a lot of
7:09people in shock. You never know somebody
7:11could snatch your children away from me.
7:14And whatever said, I hope that you know,
7:16if they go out tonight, they'll hold on
7:18to their kids.
7:19And it really put everybody on guard to
7:21to get out and search and help help find
7:23those kids. And anytime a kid's
7:25involved, that's that's major. You
7:27really you have to get on it quick.
7:29How you doing?
7:30This evening, volunteers staked out the
7:32downtown streets. And everybody every
7:34resource that was available from SLED,
7:37the city of Union, Sheriff's Office, and
7:39other federal agencies. I mean, there
7:41was a lot of people who got involved
7:42with it. There was a lot of things are
7:44going on
7:45then.
7:46Uh people could go in everywhere, all
7:49kind of rumors and this and that about
7:50where the kids were. So, many rumors are
7:52going around that
7:54that possibly those kids had never left
7:56the county. Telephone tips are coming
7:57into the sheriff's office at a record
7:59pace.
7:59The sheriff's office and and I think it
8:01was the FBI had set up uh phone lines
8:03that they were monitored 24 hours a day
8:05and uh you know, everybody was pitching
8:07in answering these calls and you know,
8:09you you get some some calls that were
8:12disturbing and you'd get calls that
8:14were, you know, that we would check out,
8:16they were leads, but it was you you had
8:18to you had to vet these calls to see if
8:20we if we thought it was legitimate or if
8:21it was somebody just uh
8:24making no sense whatsoever, but we had
8:26to we had to prioritize the time we had
8:28uh to find those kids.
8:30is described as a black man in his late
8:3220s.
8:33What really struck me when they said
8:35that
8:36uh she had said uh a black man had taken
8:40her kids and
8:41next thing you know, police were were
8:44going to houses uh late at night or
8:46early in the morning or whenever because
8:48the description that she gave could have
8:50fit a lot of people.
8:52And uh I knew a guy, one of the guys
8:54that the description they they kind of
8:56um
8:57got him up and and and and out of the
9:00bed or what have you.
9:01And uh
9:02because he fit the description. The
9:04search began for 3-year-old Michael
9:06Smith and his 14-month-old brother Alex.
9:09Their mother claimed she'd been
9:10carjacked. Susan Smith told police a
9:12black man jumped into her car at the
9:14edge of Union, pulled a gun, and made
9:16her drive. And and of course uh she had
9:19a we had a sketch artist from SLED that
9:21that drew her description and it was
9:24just about as generic, you know,
9:26African-American as it could be, which
9:28again is terrifying. So, I mean,
9:31basically any African-American of a
9:33medium build with a toboggan would have
9:36fit. The original
9:38um artists, the s- police sketch artists
9:41original drawing of the black man in the
9:43toboggan that she said
9:45carjacker
9:47People can
9:49give you a idea how to sketch a person
9:53out that was involved, which don't
9:55necessarily have to be
9:58you know, uh uh
10:01the the the the particular person that
10:03committed the crime. So, you look
10:05deeper. You always looking as you go.
10:10You you you you start seeing faces then.
10:13That look like that guy. That look like
10:14that guy. But, you know, good law
10:16enforcement work settle all that. This
10:19has become a national search with
10:21national news coverage.
10:22It was a a lot of media. The the trucks
10:25came rolling in and and they were
10:26covering this and it was just constantly
10:28on the news.
10:29The parents of the missing children
10:30emerged from their isolation today to
10:32talk publicly for the first time since
10:34last week. The mother, Susan Smith, made
10:37an emotional plea to the alleged
10:38kidnapper.
10:40Pray every day that you're taking care
10:41of them.
10:43And know that we will do anything,
10:46anything, we will to help you to get
10:49them home back to us.
10:51I just can't express it enough.
10:53The father, David Smith, made a plea to
10:55the public. The American public continue
10:57to pray for Michael and Alex that they
11:00all return home safely. And it was such
11:03a big case. I mean, it it really was.
11:05And uh especially when you have two
11:06young kids like that that are missing,
11:08you know, we want to find them and we
11:09wanted all the help we could. WSPA did
11:12an interview with the first interview we
11:14had and we had the raw footage from them
11:16and they had called David Smith. He's
11:18now there. The reporter, much like you
11:21talking to me, says, "Okay, here's what
11:23we're going to do. We're going to
11:24basically, you know, they'll turn up the
11:26lights in the camera and we'll have you
11:28tell us
11:29chronologically what happened."
11:31him the baby I got to go, but she's
11:32going to be okay. And I told him I loved
11:35him. We got the raw footage, so we could
11:37sort of see what was going on before she
11:38started talking, before the the cameras
11:41were rolling officially.
11:43Um but the the cameras were recording
11:45and they showed her standing there next
11:47to a an absolutely shell-shocked
11:51David Smith, who was just mind is
11:54obviously reeling trying to come to
11:56grips with what's happened to his
11:57children. And she looks at David and
12:00almost giggles like we're going to be on
12:02TV.
12:03They had the mounted lights on top of
12:04the camera. When those came on and
12:06illuminated her face,
12:08you could almost see this look of sort
12:10of
12:11like giggly sort of
12:13excitement. Like, I'm on TV. And and it
12:16was just such a stark contrast to the
12:19look on David's face. And of course poor
12:20David looks just like what you would
12:22expect, a deer in headlights, somebody's
12:24just taken our children thing.
12:26His expression never changed. Um I'm
12:28sure he would rather have just been home
12:30with his boys
12:32rather than standing in this living room
12:34about to give an interview. That whole
12:36series of, you know, whatever I lose
12:38track now, 9 10 days, whatever it was
12:40with the media was an adventure for
12:43Susan and she enjoyed the spotlight.
12:50All right, see our office was in the in
12:52the basement of the uh courthouse.
12:54And uh that's where they they brought
12:57them in one day and that's what I
12:58remember as as a young probation agent
13:00at that time. Uh they used our my office
13:03and another and our agent charges office
13:05to separate them, you know, just to talk
13:06to them. And uh that that was kind of a
13:10that that was kind of a
13:12a day that I remember. Very very
13:14familiar with that day because I just
13:16some of the
13:18body language and stuff I noticed. I was
13:20thinking that something's got to be
13:21something's wrong here. You know, I was
13:23a reserve police officer with the city
13:24of Union and
13:26and uh
13:27started seeing
13:30discrepancies or
13:32started thinking something just ain't
13:34quite right. When they would come in
13:36they were coming into the courthouse, I
13:38remember noticing that David was visibly
13:40upset. I mean he was just out of control
13:42crying and everything and she had no
13:43emotions.
13:45Uh
13:46she had no emotions walking in and I was
13:47thinking to myself, you know, if you had
13:49two kids that had just been carjacked
13:51you'd been carjacked and they're
13:52missing, you're going to be a mother's
13:54going to be upset. Divers began
13:56searching John D. Long Lake.
13:57Instinctively, I asked the sheriff this
14:00question. Do you consider her a suspect
14:02at all? Is there anything that leads you
14:03to believe that she might not be telling
14:05the truth?
14:05rule out anything at this time. Did
14:06authorities
14:08ever say to you that they doubted the
14:11story Susan was giving?
14:13No, they never told me that.
14:17I was hearing rumors of that, but they
14:19never told me that at at all.
14:22That they didn't believe her.
14:25And I was
14:27it was frustrating, too, during that
14:29time because
14:31I was a
14:33you know, I
14:34I believed her 100%. 100%. And your mama
14:38loves you so much and your daddy they so
14:41famous loving. And I felt like they were
14:43all wasting time
14:45dealing with her and these
14:48polygraph
14:49failures and
14:51I just I wanted every law enforcement
14:54all the manpower looking for Michael and
14:56Alex.
14:58And I just felt like at that time they
15:00were wasting time with worrying about
15:02her.
15:04That's more officers I could have, you
15:06know, be out there looking more boots on
15:07the ground.
15:09What do you remember about Susan during
15:11those 9 days where you were looking?
15:19Well, I had heard things like she was
15:22failing all these polygraph tests.
15:24But I would tell her not to worry about
15:26it. You're just upset. Look what just
15:29happened to you. I was trying to like
15:31coach her
15:33through how to pass a polygraph.
15:36I was telling her like
15:38I was giving her ideas like think of a
15:40meadow
15:42on a summer day. Things like that to
15:44help pass.
15:46Um
15:48and
15:51she was also more worried about
15:54how she was appearing in public.
15:57And
16:00like did she look She I remember her
16:03asking me, "Do people think she's
16:06lying?"
16:07Um how can people think she had anything
16:09to do with it? Please.
16:12I mean, please bring them home
16:16to us where they belong. The more
16:18pressure that was put on her, the more
16:20times she was asked the questions,
16:22her you know, her story started
16:24changing.
16:25And people went out looking for the
16:26kids. Horseback riders. Somebody on
16:29horses at higher level you know, from
16:31the ground they can see over in a
16:34in about a you know, people just looking
16:35for the kids and stuff like that. And
16:37when she confessed that
16:40you know, the what she had did,
16:44it left a bad taste in people's mouths.
16:48AND WE LOVE HER. WE DON'T DO IT ALL.
16:50THERE WAS COMMOTION tonight outside the
16:51Union County Courthouse.
16:52She accused you know, a black guy of of
16:55abducting her
16:56her children, her carjacking her car and
16:59abducting her children.
17:00Well, they tend to stare at you funny.
17:03Everything come up that's wrong,
17:05everything come up that's bad, first
17:06thing they do is pick the black man as
17:09the epitome of evil. I guess tonight
17:11shows that all blacks are not bad, you
17:13know.
17:14They found out that that all that was a
17:15lie.
17:17Uh there were there a you know there
17:18were there was a
17:19there was a racial divide uh you know
17:22to that to that aspect. You know I I I
17:26What did that do to the It it it it it
17:29hurt. I mean it drove it drove a wedge
17:31in in between some of the
17:33some of the people.
17:34I think the town handled it great,
17:36better than any other town would have
17:37handled it because you know it really
17:39could have got out of control. You know
17:41it could have been a race thing, but you
17:44know
17:46deep down inside most black people know
17:49that they you know it it wasn't A BLACK
17:51PERSON.
17:56AS SUSAN SMITH CAME TO COURT THIS
17:57MORNING, an angry crowd was there to
17:59greet her.
18:01Many were from Union's African-American
18:03community. Angry not only at the death
18:05of two innocent children, but also at
18:07the racial aspect of the case.
18:09Her lying about it saying that a black
18:11man done it, she did not know any better
18:13than that.
18:13a little
18:15uh just to say you know we're sorry that
18:17we had to do what we had to do to try to
18:20find those kids and uh you know just an
18:23apology would have helped.
18:25For many African-American men in Union,
18:27the last 10 days have been
18:28uncomfortable. Oh man, I had to walk
18:31very soft. You know it's just like
18:32walking on cotton, you know there was
18:34time that I wanted to go fishing, you
18:35know, but hey I couldn't get caught you
18:37know going fishing. There was time that
18:39I wanted to go hunting. I couldn't go
18:40hunt. What if a what if a black man
18:42would have got caught in the woods
18:44hunting? Would have got There are some
18:45people that were bitter bitter over
18:47that. I mean extremely bitter.
18:50And you know I just
18:55uh
18:57to to have
19:00for her to have done what she done and
19:01then and then lie about what what
19:06what was done and and who done it you
19:09know I get I
19:10And and I seen I see their point of
19:12view. I mean it
19:14it hurt. I mean it hurt a lot of people.
19:16This is bad enough, but don't to pull up
19:18something else to make a racism thing
19:20out of it. That's just going to make the
19:21matter of the situation worse. Also
19:23speaking publicly today was Scotty
19:25Vaughan, the brother of Susan Smith.
19:29On behalf of my family,
19:31we want to apologize to the black
19:34community of Union.
19:35It is what it it is. She she made that
19:37accusation. It was wrong.
19:40But,
19:41I think after time of getting that
19:44settled and and let's moving on with it.
19:46We don't we don't have that problem. The
19:48division's not here now. When they found
19:50out that that wasn't a black man
19:52involved, you know, the
19:55the the the tippy toe kind of came down
19:57and then it just kind of
20:00you know, vanished on its own.
20:01I mean the story itself,
20:03tiny little southern town, woman gets
20:07kid, you know, is is carjacked or or two
20:09children are taken away. We don't know
20:11where they are. The emotional appeals
20:13for help from her over the few days
20:16prior to her confession. Um it it just
20:19sort of fed into the story and it just
20:21got bigger and bigger and then it
20:22culminated in her ultimately admitting
20:26there was never was a carjacking and the
20:28kids never left Union. In fact, I drove
20:30them into the lake. It was just sort of
20:33this shocking conclusion.
20:34Outside the courthouse, reporters were
20:36breaking the news of the day's events to
20:38stations in cities across the nation.
20:41Cameras were poised for the big
20:42announcement. Just before 7:00 p.m., the
20:45sheriff walked out and he offered
20:47nothing more than this statement.
20:50Deep down, you know, how can a mom
20:53do this?
20:55I mean, you know,
20:57you
20:58I'm watching a lot of animals and stuff
21:00like that. I watch their nature. It's
21:02it's built I had a cat at my house that
21:05had kittens. I said, "Lord,
21:07what am I going to do with kittens? I
21:08don't know how to take care of the
21:10little baby kittens." And I actually
21:13prayed that the Lord would would keep
21:15the would help the mom. She looking at
21:18them, "What is this? What is he going to
21:20She knows she have them." And then her
21:21motherly instincts kicked in. And
21:24humans, you know, that that's amplified
21:26a thousand times. You know, you want to
21:28protect your young. But
21:31something clicked and and she'd rather
21:34look do that to them than
21:37you know,
21:38do the right thing or do something else.
21:40Susan Smith
21:41has been arrested
21:43and will be charged with two counts of
21:45murder
21:46in connection
21:48with the deaths of her children
21:50Michael 3 and Alexander 14 months.
21:53It's one of those that you won't ever
21:54forget. I mean, Tommy and I had just
21:56finished trying a case here in New York,
21:59a preacher who'd embezzled a bunch of
22:00money from his church, and it was a long
22:02trial. Um and they ended up
22:05uh uh convicting him. He and I had gone
22:07out to lunch and we'd just sat down,
22:09placed our order, and his self his text
22:11was beeper days. Um his beeper went off
22:14and he made a call and we knew what was
22:16going on there. It was in the
22:17background, though. We weren't paying
22:19cuz we thought it was a federal thing.
22:20The kids were kidnapped. They were out
22:21of state. I thought the kids would show
22:24up. I thought this was kind of a tempest
22:25in a teapot. You know, some drama has
22:28occurred, but really the kids are hid
22:30out with my cousin at the beach cuz I'm
22:32trying to
22:33you know, upset David you know, because
22:35they're estranged or whatever. I really
22:38did not foresee this ending.
22:40We learned at that point that she had
22:43confessed that the children never left
22:45Union County and that this was going to
22:48be our case. So,
22:49um we jumped in his car and rode
22:51straight from the restaurant to Union um
22:54and went right to the lake uh where they
22:57were working to get a wrecker position
22:59to pull the car out of the lake. Yeah, I
23:01was at um
23:03our parents' home.
23:06How did you um
23:08How did you process that information? I
23:09mean, I can't imagine.
23:14I just I heard about it. Her confession
23:17on TV.
23:19Um
23:20you know, Sheriff Howard Wells didn't
23:22even let me know first.
23:25Um not even phone call or anything. I
23:28started hearing all these reports on TV
23:30that she had been arrested, she had con-
23:32she had confessed.
23:34So,
23:36I was
23:38beside myself
23:40trying to figure out what they were
23:41talking about.
23:43But, I found out, you know, that
23:45what had happened to him like the rest
23:47of the world found out. In a procession
23:48of police cars, Susan Smith arrived at
23:50the courthouse under heavy security and
23:52hiding from everyone who came to see
23:54her. The angry crowd of onlookers
23:56jeered. Smith was led into the
23:58courthouse without showing her face.
23:59People had tried, citizens tried so hard
24:03to to find those boys for, you know, 10
24:06days and been led on by Susan. I mean,
24:08it was a a layer of betrayal. And now to
24:10know, you know, hope beyond hope we
24:13weren't going to recover them alive.
24:15Ultimately, when she was confronted with
24:17the lies that were coming
24:19uh that she was issuing one at a time,
24:21it sort of became,
24:23um you know, impossible. It was
24:24untenable for her to continue her story
24:26after they were, you know, calling her
24:28out on one after the other. And
24:30ultimately, she realized that, you know,
24:32it had to come to an end.
24:33The events that followed the, you know,
24:35the actual initial report of the
24:36carjacking to, you know, who ended up
24:38finding the kids.
24:40Uh I I I was there that night and I
24:43just, you know, basically what I
24:44remember is is the the car being put on
24:47the rollback and and being removed from
24:50John D. Long Lake. A tow truck rolled
24:52in. Divers had recovered the missing
24:54Mazda Protege and the bodies of the two
24:56young children. What was that night
24:58like? Um it was surreal. I mean it was
25:01very uh
25:02um you know Union such a small
25:05quiet peaceful little community, it's
25:08having something of this magnitude
25:10happen there. Um sort of amplified the
25:13the impact of it because this is it just
25:15wasn't a place you have that kind of
25:17thing happen. And so um it was it was
25:19definitely uh uh
25:22an odd, like I said, surreal experience.
25:24I mean everybody was quiet standing out
25:26on the banks of the lake. Uh you could
25:29see the divers out in the water. They
25:31had uh
25:32Greer's wrecker had pulled up and backed
25:34up in there and they were running the
25:36cable out into the water to hook it to
25:37the car to to get it pulled out and the
25:40the divers were in the water, you know,
25:42to negotiate and help try to move it as
25:44it came up a little bit so they can move
25:46it in the water and
25:47um yeah, it was very unusual.
25:50I went down that night and I really went
25:52specifically for the reason
25:55uh those boys were recovered
25:58I wanted to see and I wanted to know and
26:00I wanted to remember because already
26:02just during that little bit, the media
26:04pressure, you know, back then O.J. was
26:06going on. Back then this this was the
26:09biggest thing since O.J. For for folks
26:11today it would be like uh our Murdoch
26:13case here in South Carolina had been
26:15recently. Um and so I knew it was going
26:18to be intensive. I knew it was going to
26:20be pressure.
26:21I wanted to see those boys come out of
26:23the lake to remind me what my job was.
26:31I was very emotionally distraught, she
26:33wrote.
26:34I felt I couldn't be a good mom anymore.
26:43Referring to the night of the murder,
26:44Smith said, "I wanted to end my life so
26:46bad and was in my car ready to go down
26:48that ramp into the water." She says she
26:51stopped. Then she says I went again and
26:53I stopped.
27:00She continues, I dropped to the lowest
27:02when I allowed my children to go down
27:04that ramp into the water without me.
27:09How somebody could take two small kids
27:12like that, I mean, you know, they
27:14probably weren't even old enough or had
27:17strength enough to open a door
27:19or whatever, you know, but to strap them
27:21in in uh restraints and leave them in
27:24the car or let the car run off in the
27:26water.
27:27It's um it's it's it's cold-blooded.
27:30When the car came out of the water,
27:31seeing the children in the back of the
27:33car was horrifying.
27:35It was really um
27:37it was it was
27:38very very moving.
27:39Just tragic.
27:41And Michael and Alex have just gone home
27:44to be with the Lord.
27:46So, if they are home,
27:47then where does that leave us?
27:50That leaves us right here in a little
27:51town
27:52with all the world watching us today.
27:56The question is, how do we cope? The
27:58look on the face of the anguished young
28:00father, David Smith, touched everyone.
28:02He could hardly walk. He wept as the
28:05procession of cars left for the
28:06cemetery, and people wondered again, how
28:09could this happen? I don't understand.
28:11Only God know. I don't have answers. I
28:13didn't understand it.
28:15Like
28:16I couldn't comprehend it.
28:19There was no way that she had done that.
28:22That's what I was feeling.
28:24I was hearing it,
28:27but I couldn't get my brain to process
28:29that thought.
28:33I
28:34I just I
28:35And
28:36and the thought of that they were gone
28:38forever.
28:40That was even harder to process that I
28:42was never going to see them again.
28:45Plus, you were only what, 23 at the
28:47time?
28:4924. 24.
28:52They understand the fact that uh the
28:54media invasion is coming, and they're
28:56trying to make it as uh comfortable for
28:58everybody, including the townspeople, as
29:00possible.
29:02One of the sergeants that uh I was uh
29:06neighbors with and worked with at City
29:07of Union.
29:08Uh him and I were actually hunting, and
29:11our pager went off.
29:13It all off, did it all off. Officers to
29:15report to the courthouse. I mean, that
29:17was county and city, and they had guys
29:18court called and highway patrol, and
29:21wildlife natural uh DNR, they were
29:23there. I mean, it was uh there was a lot
29:25of law enforcement officers, FBI, of
29:27course. I mean, everybody was was had
29:29descended upon small town Union, and
29:32created
29:33for lack of lack of lesser terms, a lot
29:35of chaos here.
29:37The area around the Union County
29:39Courthouse is buzzing today as folks get
29:42ready for the trial.
29:43As we drove into town,
29:45um maybe a mile and a half out, I could
29:47hear this droning sound, light at first,
29:50but as we got closer to the courthouse,
29:51it got louder and louder and louder.
29:53This humming.
29:55Um and as we got to the courthouse, we
29:57we pulled up and saw rows of television
30:01trucks, the media trucks on both sides
30:03of the street going down. People running
30:05all over the place, and then that's when
30:06it sort of like, oh my god, this, you
30:09know, this is really something that's
30:10captivated the the attention of the of
30:13the of the whole country.
30:17News organizations have rented out
30:19dozens of storefronts and homes for the
30:20duration of the trial. Every hotel in
30:23town is booked.
30:28This used to be Union's old skating
30:30rink. Now, it's a makeshift hotel and
30:32office for the Associated Press. Have
30:34you ever seen so much media here in Not
30:37really. I've met I've worked with around
30:39and with the media a lot. Uh
30:42ABC, CBS,
30:44whoever. I've worked around them a lot.
30:47But having them to really actually come
30:49here and set up in town, all the stuff
30:51that they go through, sort of like
30:53building sets and finding work space and
30:57carpenters and engineers all over the
30:59place. It was
31:01It was It was a sight to see. These
31:03three scaffolding salesmen stopped by
31:05today looking to build up some business.
31:08We just came up today to see if uh you
31:10know, if we could do be any help to the
31:12news media as far as coverage of the of
31:15the trial, give them elevations up to
31:17where you know, have a good good view of
31:19the of the crowd and and what's going
31:22on.
31:24There will be dozens of television news
31:27crews, for instance. The average person
31:29doesn't like a camera stuck in their
31:31face and a microphone. And so that will
31:33be a problem. We've learned
31:36to have thick skin.
31:38That's for sure.
31:40All the media coverage here, you know,
31:42talking about the trial and Go ahead,
31:44you're on the air. Just the mention of
31:46the Susan Smith trial lit up phone lines
31:48at Union radio station WBCU.
31:51Why did you want it to be televised or
31:55on the radio? What What was the
31:57reasoning for that?
31:58Contact exactly what did you think?
32:06Around that time, the trial and all
32:08that, it was for me it was just one day
32:11at a time.
32:12Um
32:14the media frenzy was
32:17out of control.
32:19I had them hiding in trees. They were
32:21hiding in shrubberies.
32:24They were chasing me
32:26in their vehicles.
32:28Um
32:31and that was very frustrating.
32:35But
32:37I had to
32:39like in my mind I had to
32:42break it down and
32:43slow all that down and
32:50I knew that they were just
32:52doing their job. Some were beyond
32:54intrusive,
32:56but most of them were respectful. They
32:59were just, you know, doing their job.
33:05So, I had to
33:07slow it down and put it in its own place
33:10so I could focus on the trial.
33:14And cuz that was my main goal.
33:17When the media was really bad.
33:21So, I had to just process it and
33:25shuffle things around in my mind
33:27and deal with the priority or things
33:30that had the most priority at that time.
33:34And And some of that was just gosh, some
33:36of that was just staying alive.
33:39It was It was dark.
33:46We boxed everything up and they're
33:49trying to move it down and set up here
33:50in the courthouse.
33:52They said I was too young and
33:54inexperienced and now that I'm old and
33:56experienced I'll say yeah, they were
33:57probably right.
34:02You know, it's an odd situation cuz your
34:03your victim's family and your
34:05defendant's family are are intermeshed.
34:07So, I remember Sheriff took me I thought
34:09we were going to see David Smith.
34:12Um I when I get there because I'd run um
34:16Republican solicitor, I'd met Bub
34:18Russell before at at one of the
34:20Republican meetings and
34:22when we get to the house, I'm going you
34:25know, you I see him in the yard and it's
34:27almost kind of like the the funeral
34:28visitation. You know, you've lost a
34:29loved one we'd drop by your house and I
34:32said, "Do you know this family?" And I
34:34said he said, "Well, Susan's my
34:36stepdaughter." And I mean, I I I was
34:38clueless.
34:39Well,
34:41sheriff had taken me not to David
34:42Smith's house, but to the family's
34:45house.
34:46And I'm now introducing myself as the
34:48guy that's going to potentially seek the
34:49death penalty against your daughter. So,
34:51obviously, that was a very awkward
34:53experience.
35:00Saying he'd been considering the cameras
35:01in the courtroom issue for some time,
35:03Judge William Howard sided with the
35:05defense. He said to ensure Susan Smith
35:08has a fair trial. There is a substantial
35:12likelihood of
35:14interference
35:15uh
35:16with
35:17this court process.
35:19Smith's attorney, David Bruck, told the
35:21judge cameras in the courtroom would
35:22promote problems he says he's seen in
35:24the O.J. Simpson trial. Problems with
35:27the jury and problems with witnesses.
35:29But, the attorney for the South Carolina
35:31Broadcasters Association said there's
35:32nothing fair about banning coverage of
35:35the Smith trial or comparing this trial
35:37to the Simpson trial.
35:39prosecutor, if I ask for cameras in the
35:40courtroom, it's cuz I'm a glory hound.
35:42If I don't ask for them, I got something
35:44to hide. So, it's kind of like the
35:45change of venue. I had to just leave it
35:47alone. Immediately, the camera cables
35:49were unplugged. TV crews packed up and
35:52took cameras and equipment out of the
35:54courthouse.
35:59Flanked by the usual security, Smith
36:00headed into court for the first full day
36:02of defense testimony. Her school
36:05counselor in junior high was the first
36:06witness on the stand. Billy Shaw told
36:09jurors, "Every time I saw her, she was
36:11troubled." He referred to Smith taking
36:13an overdose of aspirin when she was 13
36:15years old. When asked if his client
36:17would take the stand, this was Smith's
36:19attorney's only reaction.
36:21Susan, right now, is a lot like a
36:246-year-old child.
36:26She cannot defend herself.
36:29She needs to be protected. I think that
36:32they tried to say, I don't think there
36:34was a formal finding, but I think the
36:36defense's position was
36:38was that she couldn't defend herself,
36:41that she wouldn't be able to protect
36:42herself on the witness stand, so they
36:45could not call her to the witness stand.
36:47Beverly Russell seemed to be smiling
36:49when he entered the courtroom, but
36:50before he left the witness stand, he
36:52took on a whole new expression. He
36:54talked about his sexual relationship
36:56with his stepdaughter, Susan Smith. He
36:58admitted molesting her when she was 15
37:01and continuing an affair with her even
37:03after she married and had little Michael
37:05and Alex.
37:06After police arrested Smith for killing
37:08her two sons in mid-October, Russell
37:10wrote Smith a letter of apology. The
37:13letter says, "I want to tell you how
37:15sorry I am for letting you down as a
37:17father. Many believe my failure didn't
37:19have anything to do with October 25th,
37:22but I believe it did. I want you to know
37:24that you can't take the blame for this
37:26whole tragedy."
37:27The prosecution says Russell took the
37:29stand to give the jury someone to blame
37:32other than Smith. While they say they're
37:34not blaming anybody, yet they're looking
37:37pointing and looking for blame. And I I
37:39heard it said that we are blaming other
37:40people, that we're blaming him, we're
37:42blaming Harry Von, we're blaming this
37:44and blaming that.
37:47You know, I I'm not doing that. God
37:50knows Susan doesn't do that.
37:51They went from Susan the monster in
37:53January to Susan the victim in July. And
37:56you know, I mean, we see it a lot more
37:58now than we did back then with social
38:00media and things, but basically changing
38:02the public's perception. I always told
38:04people
38:06I really am not the end to their yang.
38:08In other words, I'm not a bloodthirsty
38:10prosecutor who says, "I can't wait to
38:13see, you know, someone executed or get
38:15someone executed." I always treated that
38:17part of my job as just that, a job. In
38:20seeking justice,
38:22if the black man with the toboggan who
38:24she accused had actually committed the
38:26crime, I would be lucky that that I got
38:29to get it to trial before somebody
38:31stormed the jail, you know, the almost
38:33the lynching situation. If David Smith,
38:35the father, had have done it, um I think
38:38it'd be similar, you know, hue and cry
38:39for the death penalty. I just felt
38:41strongly that Susan
38:44should be treated the same. We shouldn't
38:46treat her different as awkward as it was
38:49because you say, "Who was Susan Smith?"
38:51Susan Smith um could be your co-worker,
38:55your little sister, your daughter. She
38:57had that a different feel than our
38:59traditional defendants.
39:01And I think that's what made it awkward
39:03for the public and awkward for for
39:05jurors even.
39:06The testimony of this man gave jurors an
39:08insight into Susan Smith's life. He's
39:11the state agent who conducted interviews
39:13with Smith for 4 days before her
39:14confession. He told how Susan filed for
39:17divorce from ex-husband David Smith on
39:19the grounds of adultery. Pete Logan said
39:21Susan said David was real upset and
39:23called her after he received the divorce
39:25papers. She claimed David mentally
39:27abused her. Just days before Michael and
39:29Alex were drowned, she said David told
39:31her he had her phone tapped. Logan told
39:34jurors Susan was concerned about people
39:36finding out about her affair with Mr.
39:38Finley, her boyfriend's father. Susan
39:41told Logan David threatened to tell
39:42people about the affair. Logan went on,
39:45on October 25th, the day the boys
39:47disappeared, she told her boyfriend, Tom
39:50Finley, she was having an affair with
39:52his father. She said he said, "That's
39:54too weird." and he didn't want to have
39:55anything to do with her.
39:57Defense attorneys used Logan to portray
39:59Smith's troubled life, her father's
40:01suicide when she was 6, a sexual
40:04relationship with her stepfather, a
40:06suicide attempt after an affair with a
40:07married man in 1989, her pregnancy and
40:11then marriage to David Smith in 1991,
40:13their separation in 1992,
40:16then her love affair with Tom Finley
40:18starting in 1993
40:20and what defense attorneys call her
40:22failed
40:23the night she rolled her car into John
40:25DeLong Lake.
40:27On cross-examinations, prosecutors
40:29turned the focus to the 9-day search for
40:31Smith's sons. During that time, Agent
40:33Logan said he asked her, "If you had one
40:36wish, what would it be?" She answered
40:38she'd wish she'd never said anything to
40:40Tom Finley about having an affair with
40:42his father. This is
40:46the letter that Tom Finley wrote to her
40:49uh
40:51about a week before she drove the car
40:53into the lake.
40:55And that's the original. Dear Susan, you
40:57will make some man a good wife one day,
40:59but unfortunately, it will not be me.
41:02The letter says we come from two
41:03different backgrounds. A few paragraphs
41:05later, he says, "Susan, I could really
41:07fall for you, but like I told you, some
41:09things are not suited for me. And yes, I
41:12am talking about the children. I do not
41:14want children, and I don't want the
41:16responsibility of your children,
41:17either." He ends the letter by advising
41:20Susan to have a good time and capture
41:22some of the youth you missed out on. And
41:24in a final statement, writes, "You have
41:25to make your own decisions in life, but
41:28remember, you have to live with the
41:29consequences, also."
41:31He couldn't just say, "Look, I've had my
41:32fun. I'm moving on." So he says, you
41:34know,
41:35um "I'd love to be with you, but you
41:37have kids." But that was a sweet out for
41:39him.
41:41I don't think that he ever intended to
41:43be with her even if she didn't have
41:44kids. I think he just said that cuz it
41:47was convenient.
41:48There was nothing that stopped her from
41:50just walking away
41:51from the kids and from David.
41:54But um you know, in the back of my head,
41:56I have to think to myself that not only
41:59was she solving
42:01the problem
42:03that the children posed for her, she was
42:05doing it in a way that made her
42:07sympathetic and a victim.
42:09Psychiatrist Dr. Seymour Halleck told
42:11jurors what Smith might say. Halleck
42:14examined Smith 6 months ago. He
42:16testified that she suffers from
42:18schizophrenia, which makes her hear
42:20voices, psychotic episodes when she sees
42:23herself outside her body, adjustment
42:25disorder, and chronic depression.
42:27Halleck told jurors Smith was suffering
42:29from constant thoughts of suicide in the
42:31weeks before Michael and Alex were
42:33murdered. To satisfy a need to feel
42:35wanted, Halleck said during that time
42:36Smith was having sex with her boss at
42:38Conoco, her boss's son, Tom Finley, her
42:41stepfather, Bev Russell, and her
42:43estranged husband, David Smith.
42:46On the night of the drownings, Halleck
42:47said Smith drove around aimlessly. She
42:49almost wrecked her car, and at one point
42:51stopped at a bridge with plans to jump.
42:54Over the years I've come to think
42:56if
42:57you give away the children
43:00you're a bad mother. She couldn't give
43:02Michael and Alex up because that would
43:04make her look
43:05bad
43:07in the county
43:09in the town.
43:11Um
43:12I think she did it to be with her
43:15wealthy boyfriend.
43:17Um he had he could I guess give her the
43:20lifestyle that she wanted.
43:22She prob- may have hoped that was going
43:24to endear her
43:26uh to you know, to the man she was
43:29pursuing even more.
43:31Um so, you know, all of that, the
43:33calculation involved in all of that, it
43:36just
43:37it staggers. This is the wedding album
43:41of Susan and David that she had put in
43:43the trunk
43:45of the car
43:46to sink with
43:48the rest of the life that she was trying
43:50to leave behind.
43:51When the boys were pulled from the lake,
43:53to the best of my recollection, again,
43:55it's been 30 years, but there was
43:58I think Susan's wedding album, her
44:00wedding dress, the kids, basically
44:02everything to do with her marriage, but
44:04um
44:05David Smith was in that car. And so to
44:09me it's almost like she bundled up
44:11everything it would take to get what she
44:13wanted with Tom Finley, i.e. the kids,
44:15the
44:16and put it in that car and almost like
44:19you could magically have a do-over.
44:21Photographs of the car sinking, the the
44:24test that was done. There was a test we
44:26did on to find out what how it would
44:29sink, how long it would take.
44:32We test the car and the reason I test
44:34the car, I wanted to know as much
44:35scientifically as I could know. How long
44:37did it float? What would the boys have
44:39been facing? That's something you could
44:40use kind of in the the pain testimony,
44:43you know, in the in the second phase of
44:45the trial.
44:47It would take your breath away knowing
44:49because the car finally turns down like
44:51this and you're seeing from the boys'
44:52point of view and water comes up through
44:54the the vents in the floorboard and
44:56ultimately covers,
44:58you know, the camera would have been the
44:59boys' face. And I mean it it literally
45:02made it hard for you to breathe.
45:05So,
45:06Susan can see the video. We're arguing
45:09why she be admitted and everything and I
45:10hear noise over on her side of the
45:12courtroom and she and the their
45:13paralegal either they're either playing
45:15tic-tac-toe or something or writing
45:17notes and giggling and laughing or
45:19whatever.
45:20Um fast forward, we get it admitted. Now
45:22the TVs are turned around, the jury's
45:24in, everybody um
45:28the video you're watching the jury's
45:29face now cuz you know what they're
45:31seeing and you see the same thing and
45:32they're doing this, they're almost like
45:34holding their breath, some are crying
45:36and you hear noise from the other side
45:38of the courtroom.
45:39And now that the jury's here, Susan's
45:41crying.
45:42That told me everything I needed to know
45:45about whether I was on the mark about
45:47who I thought my defendant was. No need
45:49to cry now, I'm wasting tears. I need to
45:51save them up for when the jury's in. And
45:53that's exactly what she did. He was
45:55under a lot of pressure
45:57from
46:00like the city council and
46:02other
46:04um official of the county not to seek
46:07the death penalty
46:09because they were worried about how much
46:10it was going to cost the county to seek
46:12it. When asked if Susan Smith can end
46:15her trial by entering into a plea
46:16bargain agreement, prosecutor Tommy Pope
46:19said absolutely not when this trial
46:21started. Now, he says this. I don't
46:23anticipate any. I don't plan for any.
46:27But again, the very time I tell you
46:28that, then tomorrow you know, there'll
46:30be one. But as we as I foresee it, I
46:32can't predict the future, but our plans
46:34are to go forward.
46:35I had the ability to make all this
46:37pressure go away by offering some kind
46:41of plea.
46:42You know, just I mean, we never got that
46:44far, but I just thought I could
46:47you know, cast this aside and not have
46:49to worry about it anymore.
46:51And that was exactly when I thought
46:53about those boys coming out the lake and
46:56remembered why it is
46:59that I do what I do as a prosecutor. I
47:01told Tommy, I said, "Tommy,
47:03you you can't let that be the deciding
47:06factor.
47:07Um
47:08you know, she deserves the death penalty
47:10for what she did. And I told him, "I
47:12can't pursue that. You're the
47:14prosecutor. You have to do that."
47:17And he he told me after that that that
47:20conversation is what
47:24helped him to
47:25decide what to do. We do want you to
47:27remember
47:29Mrs. Smith trial.
47:31We want to remember
47:33the city.
47:35We want to pray that the Lord will
47:38continue to bless us.
47:40Lord will continue to give us beauty.
47:42Residents have mixed opinions about the
47:44trial and what verdict should come down.
47:46Some wonder whether the town is ready
47:48for the onslaught. But ready or not,
47:51tomorrow the focus is on Union. Let's
47:54go. Let's go, guys. Let's go.
47:58Mike, let's go. Somebody listening?
48:00Let's go.
48:01Okay.
48:02The latest, Tammy, is that the jury is
48:04now deliberating the fate of Susan
48:06Smith. The same jury that found her
48:07guilty on Saturday will now decide
48:09whether she should be sentenced to life
48:11in prison or get the death penalty for
48:13murdering her two young sons last
48:15October.
48:17Susan Smith emerged from the courthouse
48:19in the same manner she has for the past
48:212 weeks. Only this time she's convicted
48:23of double murder. When the verdicts were
48:25read, David Smith showed little
48:27reaction. We're all doing We have been
48:29doing well, I think, everything
48:31considered. It's been very difficult,
48:32though, very difficult to listen to the
48:34testimony and Susan's mother, Linda
48:37Russell, cried, and Susan dropped her
48:39head, wiped her eye, and appeared to be
48:41crying.
48:42But first, we begin with a sentence.
48:44News 13's Judy Johnson was in the
48:46courtroom when the sentence was read.
48:48She joins us now from Union. Judy, tell
48:50us about the reaction there.
48:51Mark, it was an emotional moment inside
48:53the courtroom ending what has been a
48:54very emotional trial. The reaction was
48:57mixed.
49:00The woman we've watched walk into the
49:02courthouse for the past 3 weeks walked
49:04into the courtroom late today wearing a
49:05black dress, a black jacket, and a blank
49:08expression. She sat calmly beside her
49:10attorneys as the jury filed in with
49:12their decision. Every seat in the
49:14courtroom was filled. The crowd of
49:16spectators seen earlier waiting outside
49:18the courthouse anxiously sat on the edge
49:20of their seats, bodies leaning forward.
49:23Some tried to stand. About 30 police
49:25officers were also inside to control the
49:27crowd.
49:29David Smith entered the back of the
49:30courtroom. He looked exhausted. Earlier
49:33this week, David took the stand for some
49:35emotional testimony. He cried so hard
49:37the judge had to take a 5-minute break.
49:39But today, he showed no emotion as the
49:41jury foreman handed the clerk the
49:43verdict. A long 90 seconds later, the
49:46sentence was read. We the jury in the
49:48Donald Smith
49:50case decided that the sentence for Susan
49:52Smith
49:52be in prison and the state having to pay
49:54the bills for an actual mom.
49:57Out loud, the crowd sighed.
50:00This was the reaction from the people
50:01sitting outside the courthouse. I knew
50:04it. I knew it.
50:08Uh again, personally and as far as my
50:11family, no. But as far as respect for
50:13what the jury returned, yes.
50:16It was the most difficult thing I've had
50:18to do, I guess,
50:20since I buried Michael and Alex.
50:23I didn't enjoy it one bit. It hurt. It
50:26brought back some memories that I guess,
50:28since the burial,
50:29I have put the put aside.
50:31forgive. I had had to think about them,
50:33but I had to relive them again. And it
50:35was very painful.
50:38I haven't like tried to keep up with
50:42Susan while she's been in prison.
50:44But when something would happen, it
50:47would make, you know, breaking news.
50:50I know, so I know about things she's
50:53done in prison.
50:55Um you know, with affairs with the
50:57guards and drug use. I think it as as
51:01you see her behavior over the years,
51:03it's reflective of who she is, who she
51:06was. And um Susan comes first. I mean,
51:09whether it's the and she's always kind
51:11of used her sexuality to to get what she
51:14wanted, whether it was all the
51:15relationships with Tom Finley and the
51:18stepfather and all those things or the
51:20relationships with the guards.
51:22It's just not like she's had a spotless
51:24uh record while in there, that's for
51:26sure. When and how did you meet Susan
51:28Smith?
51:30I first met Susan Smith
51:33probably my second or third night
51:36on duty
51:38as at the women's center.
51:40Um she had come up for
51:43medication call.
51:45Um
51:46which was done every
51:48afternoon or evening at 6:00 p.m. for
51:51the night time. Were you aware of what
51:54she was charged with at that time and
51:57kind of some of the history having lived
51:59in South Carolina? Yes, I was very much
52:02aware of
52:04her as long with
52:05several other
52:07ladies that were there what their
52:09charges were.
52:11As when you have somebody
52:13murder a child in South Carolina, it
52:16hits the news instantly. She She had
52:20issues during her incarceration. She had
52:25quite a few, especially in the later
52:27years.
52:29Um, mainly after I left her.
52:32Um, disciplinary record is extensive.
52:35When did it become something more?
52:39I'd say about 16, 17 months into my time
52:44there.
52:45We had a
52:47staff death that occurred. Um,
52:51my supervisor, the
52:54m- major who
52:56was over all of security
52:59for the institution
53:01suddenly passed away. Nobody knew he was
53:04even ill.
53:06And from what we understood, he did not
53:08know that he was sick.
53:11And he took a couple weeks off cuz he
53:13felt tired and never returned. Once he
53:17passed away, Susan started coming to me
53:21and just talking about
53:24I guess issues, personal issues.
53:28That's when it started being more and
53:33and
53:35August of
53:39what 2000
53:41is when she
53:43started approaching me and talking about
53:48having sex.
53:50Why give in to her?
53:57Her personality
53:59um the way she
54:02talked and approached
54:05um her
54:07reassurance that it would be our secret
54:11for life.
54:13Um
54:15so she knew one day I would leave
54:18and
54:20I was working on some
54:22career moves
54:24outside of corrections
54:27and
54:29a lot of people knew that and Susan
54:32probably had caught wind of it.
54:35But
54:37um needless to say none of that
54:41become
54:42possible after being terminated cuz
54:45my career in law enforcement immediately
54:48ended.
54:51I I think her behavior in prison shows
54:54Susan for who she really is and
54:57Susan thinks of nothing more important
54:59than Susan herself. I I I think that
55:02just helps prove the case that she needs
55:03to stay where she's at. I just don't
55:05think she's fit to be back in be back in
55:08in
55:09uh in public. I don't. Well, you know
55:12the solicitor Tommy Pope
55:15we talked about it before the trial
55:17began and we agreed both to seek the
55:20death penalty
55:21which we we did, but you know, the
55:24jurors felt different
55:26and you know, we respected that, but
55:31just 30 years
55:33for taking two lives
55:36and it was done
55:39maliciously
55:41um
55:42with malice and forethought.
55:44Um
55:45no, 30 years is not near enough
55:49for what she did. It happened in '94, we
55:52tried it '95, in 1996 the legislature
55:55actually changed and life began to
55:58actually mean life.
56:00Um unfortunately back then not only did
56:03life not mean life, you could not tell
56:05the jury that because as I recall
56:0830 years ago they came um back with you
56:10know questions of would she be eligible
56:12for parole and the the law at that time
56:15required the judge to basically say you
56:18as a juror to take life in its plain and
56:20usual meaning. You know, life and death
56:22mean life and death and that way it
56:24keeps the jurors arguably from from
56:26diving down into forms of execution, you
56:29know, all the thing will it be carried
56:30out, will it not. In other words, it
56:33tries to save the jury from speculating,
56:35but I can remember after the case
56:38some jurors saying they really believed
56:40uh that her
56:42you know, having to to be in jail the
56:44rest of her life
56:46thinking about what she did the kids and
56:48and being remorseful basically would be
56:51the greatest punishment. If all those
56:53factors were true, that that may well be
56:56accurate, but I think we've seen from
56:58her behavior that she's focused a little
57:00more on Susan than she is on what
57:03happened to Michael and Alex. The back
57:05then the jurors thought that life meant
57:06life. Uh you know, and and like I said,
57:09you 30 years later here we are talking
57:11about parole for her. And it's um
57:14it's uh startling how fast it's gone by
57:17that 30 years has passed, but it has and
57:20she is eligible for parole, so this year
57:23the anniversary does take on a a
57:24different meaning. Um and and I'm
57:27committed and I know uh
57:29Tommy uh former solicitor Pope is
57:31committed as is I think everyone on the
57:33case, to making sure that she remains in
57:36in jail. She should. This was a terrible
57:38crime. And, uh, she should serve the
57:40rest of her life in prison. She
57:42sentenced David to a life of
57:44of, uh, of suffering over the loss of
57:47the two boys, so
57:47And, you know, I'm not sure
57:49you know, it'll be up to the parole
57:51board.
57:52And, you know, she'll present her case,
57:53and
57:54and I'm sure David will be there, I'm
57:57sure, because
57:59as a victim he has a right to be there,
58:01and his family. Do you plan to attend
58:03her upcoming parole hearing? I
58:05absolutely will be at her parole
58:07hearing, for sure.
58:13It scares me.
58:15Cuz I don't want to see her.
58:18Um, it makes me nervous.
58:23And just dreading the whole possibility
58:26of
58:27seeing her again. I'm I'm dreading all
58:30of it.
58:30Well, they'll consider the severity of
58:32the crime, of course, and what she
58:34actually did. They'll also look at her
58:36behavior since she's been in jail, which
58:37hasn't been exemplary. So, um,
58:40is she rehabilitated?
58:42Uh, is she, you know, somebody that they
58:45feel has, uh, has suffered enough of a
58:48punishment for what she did? I don't
58:50think she's ready for parole.
58:52I don't think she
58:53realizes what the outside world
58:56has become since she's been
58:58incarcerated.
58:59Um,
59:00and I don't think the general public
59:02themselves
59:05are ready to
59:07allow somebody like Susan back into
59:10society. I don't I don't think that she
59:13would be as welcome as she might believe
59:16she is. I don't think she deserves to be
59:18back out in the community,
59:21uh, in any community.
59:23And your mama loves you so much. And
59:26your daddy and his whole family loves
59:28you so much.
59:31And you guys have got to be strong.
59:34Uh I think that she's she is the same
59:37person she was
59:39um in October of 1994. I don't think
59:41she's changed that much at all. I don't
59:44think that that kind of person can
59:45change. Whatever is broken inside of a
59:48human being that allows them to to drive
59:52their car with two children in the
59:53backseat into a lake and then come up
59:56with this horrible lie accusing some,
59:58you know, nonexistent black man of
1:00:00having taken them and then participating
1:00:02in a multi-day charade where the whole
1:00:04country is looking for this black man in
1:00:06a toboggan. Whatever was broken that
1:00:08allowed her to do that um is is
1:00:11something I think that can't be fixed by
1:00:14incarceration. I think it's just she she
1:00:16just needs to remain where she's at.
1:00:18Will you be able to sleep better tonight
1:00:20knowing that at least there is a
1:00:22verdict?
1:00:25I don't know about necessarily tonight,
1:00:26but I think
1:00:28me personally
1:00:30along with my family, but speaking for
1:00:31me personally
1:00:32I do have
1:00:34some
1:00:35sort of a starting point now where I can
1:00:37start to
1:00:40rest easier and have somewhat more peace
1:00:42of mind and
1:00:44put start my life back
1:00:46from some point now. Some people I know
1:00:48What can you tell me about Michael and
1:00:49Alex?
1:00:53Unfortunately, I I don't have a lot of
1:00:55memory still of Michael and Alex.
1:00:58Um
1:01:00you know, I I
1:01:02did seek professional help
1:01:05in the years following and
1:01:10each one of the
1:01:13doctors, psychiatrists told me that
1:01:17those memories would come back, that it
1:01:19was just my body's self-defense looking
1:01:23out for itself that the that the
1:01:25memories would be too faint painful.
1:01:28And that they would eventually gradually
1:01:31come back. But
1:01:37not many have.
1:01:39Um
1:01:40like I can remember
1:01:42Michael used to love to ride on the
1:01:45lawnmower with me cutting grass.
1:01:47And he would always fall asleep every
1:01:50time.
1:01:51I have
1:01:52like snapshots of giving them baths,
1:01:55playtime in the bathtub.
1:01:58Um
1:02:00I have snapshots of maybe them
1:02:03walking
1:02:05to the car
1:02:07at a like maybe at a shopping center.
1:02:11I can't remember the shopping center. I
1:02:13just can remember I can see them walking
1:02:15alongside me. So it it's very scarce.
1:02:21And that makes me sad.
1:02:23Cuz I don't have many memories of them.
1:02:25Well, they haven't come back yet.
1:03:13But you know
1:03:15I still get people
1:03:17heartfelt people that come up to me
1:03:20and
1:03:21tell me that you know, they still pray
1:03:24for me.
1:03:26Um they still think about Michael and
1:03:27Alex.
1:03:29Um
1:03:32I had a
1:03:34older lady about
1:03:373 years ago
1:03:40tell me that
1:03:42um she still had a picture
1:03:45of Michael and Alex on her refrigerator
1:03:49alongside her children and
1:03:51grandchildren.
1:03:54And
1:03:56it just made
1:03:58my heart smile. It made my
1:04:01eyes tear up.
1:04:04She you know, this woman's not even
1:04:05related
1:04:07but she still had a picture out of the
1:04:09newspaper. She told me it was a black
1:04:11and white picture
1:04:12but it was still on her refrigerator.
1:04:15At that time, I've been 27 years later.
1:04:18And that's that's that amazes me.
1:04:23Got to make you feel good.
1:04:24Absolutely, it makes you feel good.
1:04:26Definitely does.

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